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b·rashith bra aleim ath e·shmim u·ath e·artz
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Ganesh J. Acharya
Feb 10, 2012, 11:57:57 PM2/10/12
to
b·rashith bra aleim ath e·shmim u·ath e·artz
in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and·» the·earth
Does it not mean
In the beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth?
Why is it translated as
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth?
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and·» the·earth
Does it not mean
In the beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth?
Why is it translated as
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth?
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
mirjam
Feb 11, 2012, 11:42:52 AM2/11/12
to
Ganesh J. Acharya
Feb 11, 2012, 12:58:15 PM2/11/12
to
mirjam
Feb 11, 2012, 4:16:12 PM2/11/12
to
On Feb 11, 7:58 pm, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
First your transliteration is a bit odd, but that has to do with the
problem of writing it in Latin Letters.
The text is in Hebrew and in our Syntax it can only mean that God
Created the Heaven And the earth .
Because the written text says Beresheet Bara Elohim et HaSahamayim ve
Et HaAretz
the Et being a word that sign the object
mirjam
wrote:
> On Feb 11, 9:42 pm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 11, 6:57 am, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:> b·rashith bra aleim ath e·shmim u·ath e·artz
> > > in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and·» the·earth
>
> > > Does it not mean
> > > In the beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth?
>
> > > Why is it translated as
> > > In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth?http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
>
> > I
>
> ?
Sorry i meant to answer you but it glitched away ,,,
> On Feb 11, 9:42 pm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 11, 6:57 am, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:> b·rashith bra aleim ath e·shmim u·ath e·artz
> > > in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and·» the·earth
>
> > > Does it not mean
> > > In the beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth?
>
> > > Why is it translated as
> > > In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth?http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
>
> > I
>
> ?
First your transliteration is a bit odd, but that has to do with the
problem of writing it in Latin Letters.
The text is in Hebrew and in our Syntax it can only mean that God
Created the Heaven And the earth .
Because the written text says Beresheet Bara Elohim et HaSahamayim ve
Et HaAretz
the Et being a word that sign the object
mirjam
Ganesh J. Acharya
Feb 11, 2012, 10:12:46 PM2/11/12
to
"Whence Visvakarman, seeing all, producing the earth, with mighty
power disclosed the heavens."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10081.htm
Rig Veda, tr. by Ralph T.H. Griffith, [1896]
dsharavi
Feb 11, 2012, 10:20:31 PM2/11/12
to
On Feb 11, 1:16 pm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 7:58 pm, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 11, 9:42 pm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 11, 6:57 am, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:> b·rashith bra aleim ath e·shmim u·ath e·artz
> > > > in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and·» the·earth
>
> > > > Does it not mean
> > > > In the beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth?
>
> > > > Why is it translated as
> > > > In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth?http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
>
> > > I
>
> > ?
>
> Sorry i meant to answer you but it glitched away ,,,
> First your transliteration is a bit odd, but that has to do with the
> problem of writing it in Latin Letters.
The problem is that it comes from a Xian site.
> On Feb 11, 7:58 pm, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 11, 9:42 pm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 11, 6:57 am, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:> b·rashith bra aleim ath e·shmim u·ath e·artz
> > > > in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and·» the·earth
>
> > > > Does it not mean
> > > > In the beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth?
>
> > > > Why is it translated as
> > > > In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth?http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
>
> > > I
>
> > ?
>
> Sorry i meant to answer you but it glitched away ,,,
> First your transliteration is a bit odd, but that has to do with the
> problem of writing it in Latin Letters.
dsharavi
Feb 11, 2012, 10:31:39 PM2/11/12
to
On Feb 10, 8:57 pm, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Why is it translated as
> In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth?http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
It's translated "In the beginning..." because the sound is pleasing to
English speakers.
Questions like this are better posted to soc.culture.jewish.moderated.
But see:
Bereshit bara Elohim et hashamayim ve'et ha'arets ve
ha'arets hayetah tohu vavohu vechoshech al-peney tehom veruach Elohim
merachefet al-peney hamayim vayomer Elohim yehi-or vayehi-or.
When God began to create heaven and earth, the earth being
unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a
wind from God sweeping over the water, God said Let there be light,
and there was light.
--Genesis 1,1-3 Tanakh (JPS 1985), Etz Hayim: Torah and Commentary
[incl two long notes for 1-3] (1999)
At the beginning of the creation of heaven and earth when the earth
was without form and void and there was darkness, God said, Let there
be light.
-- Rashi (see commentary below)
In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth, the
earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness on the face of the
deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters, and
God saith, Let light be; and light is.
--Young's Literal Translation
B'reshit [at head/first/beginning]
bara [creates] (never used except when God is subject)
Elohim [pl of eloha: gods generally, but usually the one God] ]
et [untranslated particle]
hashamayim [the heavens / skies / visible space]
v'et ha'arets [and - untranslated particle- the Earth / earth /
land / soil]
ve ha'arets hayeta [and the earth comes / comes to pass / becomes /
be]
tohu [waste / formlessness / unreality]
vevohu [and emptiness / void]
ve khoshekh [and dark / darkness]
al [upon / above / over]
penei [before / face / front / surface]
tehom [deep / deeps / abyss]
veruach Elohim [and breath / wind / spirit (of) Elohim]
merachefet [flutters / moves / shakes]
al-penei (see above)
hamayim [the waters]
vayomer Elohim [and said / saying / say / says Elohim]
yehi or [let he be / may he be light]
vayehi-or [and (there) be light]
Rashi's Commentary:
This verse calls aloud for explanation in the manner that
our Rabbis explained it: God created the world for the sake of the
Torah, which is called (Proverbs 8:22) "the beginning (reshith) of His
way," and for the sake of Israel, who are called (Jeremiah 2:3) "the
beginning (reshith) of His increase." If, however, you wish to explain
it in its plain sense, explain it thus: At the beginning of the
creation of heaven and earth when the earth was without form and void
and there was darkness, God said, Let there be light.
The text does not intend to point out the order of the acts
of Creation -- to state that these (heaven and earth) were created
first; for if it intended to point this out, it should have been
written Barishona bara, "At first God created..." Because wherever the
word reshith occurs in Scripture, it is in the construct state. For
example, Jeremiah 26:1, "In the beginning of (reshith) the reign of
Jehoiakim," Genesis 10:10, "The beginning of (reshith) his kingdom,"
Deuteronomy 18:4, "The firstfruit of (reshith) thy corn." Similarly
here you must translate bereshith bara elohim as though it read
bereshith bero, at the beginning of God's creating.
A similar grammatical construction (of a noun in the
construct followed by a verb) is in Hosea 1:2, tehillat dibber [yhvh]
behosheah, which is as much to say, "At the beginning of God's
speaking through Hosea, the Lord said to Hosea." Should you, however,
insist that it does actually intend to point out that these (heaven
and earth) were created first, and that the meaning is, "At the
beginning of everything He created these, admitting therefore that the
word reshith is in the construct state and explaining the omission of
a word signifying 'everything' by saying that you have texts which are
elliptical, omitting a word, as for example Job 3:10, "Because it shut
not up the doors of my mother's womb" where it does not explicitly
explain who it was that closed the womb; and Isaiah 8:4 ... and Amos
6:12 ... -- and if it is so (that you assert that this verse intends
to point out that heaven and earth were created first), you should be
astonished at yourself, because as a matter of fact the waters were
created before heaven and earth, for it is written, "The Spirit of God
was hovering on the face of the waters," and Scripture had not yet
disclosed when the creation of the waters took place -- consequently
you must learn from this that the creation of the waters preceded that
of the earth.
And a further proof that the heavens and the earth were not
the first thing created is that the heavens were created from fire
(esh) and water (mayim), from which it follows that fire and water
were in existence before the heavens. Therefore you must needs admit
that the text teaches nothing about the earlier or later sequence of
the acts of creation.
wrote:
> b·rashith bra aleim ath e·shmim u·ath e·artz
> in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and·» the·earth
>
> Does it not mean
> In the beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth?
No.
> in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and·» the·earth
>
> Does it not mean
> In the beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth?
> Why is it translated as
> In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth?http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
English speakers.
Questions like this are better posted to soc.culture.jewish.moderated.
But see:
Bereshit bara Elohim et hashamayim ve'et ha'arets ve
ha'arets hayetah tohu vavohu vechoshech al-peney tehom veruach Elohim
merachefet al-peney hamayim vayomer Elohim yehi-or vayehi-or.
When God began to create heaven and earth, the earth being
unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a
wind from God sweeping over the water, God said Let there be light,
and there was light.
--Genesis 1,1-3 Tanakh (JPS 1985), Etz Hayim: Torah and Commentary
[incl two long notes for 1-3] (1999)
At the beginning of the creation of heaven and earth when the earth
was without form and void and there was darkness, God said, Let there
be light.
-- Rashi (see commentary below)
In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth, the
earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness on the face of the
deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters, and
God saith, Let light be; and light is.
--Young's Literal Translation
B'reshit [at head/first/beginning]
bara [creates] (never used except when God is subject)
Elohim [pl of eloha: gods generally, but usually the one God] ]
et [untranslated particle]
hashamayim [the heavens / skies / visible space]
v'et ha'arets [and - untranslated particle- the Earth / earth /
land / soil]
ve ha'arets hayeta [and the earth comes / comes to pass / becomes /
be]
tohu [waste / formlessness / unreality]
vevohu [and emptiness / void]
ve khoshekh [and dark / darkness]
al [upon / above / over]
penei [before / face / front / surface]
tehom [deep / deeps / abyss]
veruach Elohim [and breath / wind / spirit (of) Elohim]
merachefet [flutters / moves / shakes]
al-penei (see above)
hamayim [the waters]
vayomer Elohim [and said / saying / say / says Elohim]
yehi or [let he be / may he be light]
vayehi-or [and (there) be light]
Rashi's Commentary:
This verse calls aloud for explanation in the manner that
our Rabbis explained it: God created the world for the sake of the
Torah, which is called (Proverbs 8:22) "the beginning (reshith) of His
way," and for the sake of Israel, who are called (Jeremiah 2:3) "the
beginning (reshith) of His increase." If, however, you wish to explain
it in its plain sense, explain it thus: At the beginning of the
creation of heaven and earth when the earth was without form and void
and there was darkness, God said, Let there be light.
The text does not intend to point out the order of the acts
of Creation -- to state that these (heaven and earth) were created
first; for if it intended to point this out, it should have been
written Barishona bara, "At first God created..." Because wherever the
word reshith occurs in Scripture, it is in the construct state. For
example, Jeremiah 26:1, "In the beginning of (reshith) the reign of
Jehoiakim," Genesis 10:10, "The beginning of (reshith) his kingdom,"
Deuteronomy 18:4, "The firstfruit of (reshith) thy corn." Similarly
here you must translate bereshith bara elohim as though it read
bereshith bero, at the beginning of God's creating.
A similar grammatical construction (of a noun in the
construct followed by a verb) is in Hosea 1:2, tehillat dibber [yhvh]
behosheah, which is as much to say, "At the beginning of God's
speaking through Hosea, the Lord said to Hosea." Should you, however,
insist that it does actually intend to point out that these (heaven
and earth) were created first, and that the meaning is, "At the
beginning of everything He created these, admitting therefore that the
word reshith is in the construct state and explaining the omission of
a word signifying 'everything' by saying that you have texts which are
elliptical, omitting a word, as for example Job 3:10, "Because it shut
not up the doors of my mother's womb" where it does not explicitly
explain who it was that closed the womb; and Isaiah 8:4 ... and Amos
6:12 ... -- and if it is so (that you assert that this verse intends
to point out that heaven and earth were created first), you should be
astonished at yourself, because as a matter of fact the waters were
created before heaven and earth, for it is written, "The Spirit of God
was hovering on the face of the waters," and Scripture had not yet
disclosed when the creation of the waters took place -- consequently
you must learn from this that the creation of the waters preceded that
of the earth.
And a further proof that the heavens and the earth were not
the first thing created is that the heavens were created from fire
(esh) and water (mayim), from which it follows that fire and water
were in existence before the heavens. Therefore you must needs admit
that the text teaches nothing about the earlier or later sequence of
the acts of creation.
dsharavi
Feb 11, 2012, 10:23:45 PM2/11/12
to
> b·rashith bra aleim ath e·shmim u·ath e·artz
> in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and·» the·earth
> Does it not mean
> In the beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth?
No.
> in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and·» the·earth
> Does it not mean
> In the beginning he created Elohim, the heavens and the earth?
> Why is it translated as
> In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth?
>http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
It's translated "In the beginning..." because the sound is pleasing to
English speakers.
Questions like this are better directed to
English speakers.
mirjam
Feb 11, 2012, 11:46:16 PM2/11/12
to
If i was the translator i would have translated
`At first` God Created, because that is how an Hebrew speaker hears
it
Ps in the Hebrew we say
At first Created ,,,,
mirjam
`At first` God Created, because that is how an Hebrew speaker hears
it
Ps in the Hebrew we say
At first Created ,,,,
mirjam
mirjam
Feb 11, 2012, 11:49:52 PM2/11/12
to
Va -yomer
Vav makes it `and he said`
Vav makes it `and he said`
Ganesh J. Acharya
Feb 12, 2012, 1:44:59 AM2/12/12
to
Ganesh J. Acharya
Feb 12, 2012, 1:45:13 AM2/12/12
to
dsharavi
Feb 12, 2012, 10:23:50 AM2/12/12
to
dsharavi
Feb 12, 2012, 10:24:29 AM2/12/12
to
? So, it's past tense, not present?
dsharavi
Feb 12, 2012, 10:25:58 AM2/12/12
to
On Feb 11, 10:45 pm, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
Thanks. Mirjam points out that vav in "vayomer Elohim" makes it "And
he said..."
he said..."
mirjam
Feb 12, 2012, 10:48:51 AM2/12/12
to
>
> True, but I was headed for the absolutely literal translation.
I know that ,,, sort was thinking aloud ....
> True, but I was headed for the absolutely literal translation.
I am always half amused half wondering how a Non Hebrew speaker reads
it ,,,,
mirjam
mirjam
Feb 12, 2012, 10:55:21 AM2/12/12
to
mirjam
Feb 12, 2012, 10:58:56 AM2/12/12
to
> Thanks. Mirjam points out that vav in "vayomer Elohim" makes it "And
> he said..."
it is quite complicated, And you are Wonderful with it
mirjam
dsharavi
Feb 12, 2012, 2:06:32 PM2/12/12
to
having senior moments.
dsharavi
Feb 12, 2012, 2:05:09 PM2/12/12
to
dsharavi
Feb 12, 2012, 2:07:18 PM2/12/12
to
sources.
Ganesh J. Acharya
Feb 12, 2012, 10:25:27 PM2/12/12
to
mirjam
Feb 12, 2012, 11:48:47 PM2/12/12
to
> > You are Welcome Deborah
> > it is quite complicated, And you are Wonderful with it
>
> > mirjam
>
> Thanks, mirjam - but it was due less to me, and much more to the
> sources.
mirjam
mirjam
Feb 12, 2012, 11:50:25 PM2/12/12
to
>
> Again, who says these verses?
The reader when he reads it aloud !
> Again, who says these verses?
mirjam
Ganesh J. Acharya
Feb 13, 2012, 12:04:34 AM2/13/12
to
On Feb 13, 9:50 am, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
> > Again, who says these verses?
>
> The reader when he reads it aloud !
From the verses explained, it looked as tough someone was seeing what
> > Again, who says these verses?
>
> The reader when he reads it aloud !
GOD was doing. So, who was it?
mirjam
Feb 13, 2012, 7:04:14 AM2/13/12
to
On Feb 13, 7:04 am, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It is not being told like that ,,, it is being told as something that
happened..
Ancient books and stories that were handed down over generations ,
don`t say who the speaker is ,,,
mirjam
wrote:
happened..
Ancient books and stories that were handed down over generations ,
don`t say who the speaker is ,,,
mirjam
Ganesh J. Acharya
Feb 13, 2012, 12:52:59 PM2/13/12
to
dsharavi
Feb 13, 2012, 10:24:15 PM2/13/12
to
dsharavi
Feb 13, 2012, 10:27:55 PM2/13/12
to
bima. Which may have been the way it was in the Alexandria community,
and the Greek and Roman communities, and the Transalpine Gaulish and
Hispanian ones.
mirjam
Feb 13, 2012, 11:50:21 PM2/13/12
to
mirjam
Ganesh J. Acharya
Feb 14, 2012, 1:32:44 AM2/14/12
to
Ganesh J. Acharya
Feb 17, 2012, 12:36:12 AM2/17/12
to
But how did GOD create FIRE, and WATER etc. Is that mentioned?
dsharavi
Feb 17, 2012, 12:36:59 PM2/17/12
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On Feb 16, 9:36 pm, "Ganesh J. Acharya" <ganeshjacha...@gmail.com>
No idea. I wasn't around at the time.
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