Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan

[Dom]

http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-144850424.html

Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan
By Amie Ferris-Rotman | Reuters - 5 hrs ago

KABUL (Reuters) - A cache of ancient Jewish scrolls from northern
Afghanistan that has only recently come to light is creating a storm
among scholars who say the landmark find could reveal an undiscovered
side of medieval Jewry.

The 150 or so documents, dated from the 11th century, were found in
Afghanistan's Samangan province and most likely smuggled out -- a
sorry but common fate for the impoverished and war-torn country's
antiquities.
[snip]

[plainolamerican]

On Jan 23, 2:55 pm, Dom <DR...@teikyopost.edu> wrote:
> http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-...

>
> Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan
> By Amie Ferris-Rotman | Reuters - 5 hrs ago
>
> KABUL (Reuters) - A cache of ancient Jewish scrolls from northern
> Afghanistan that has only recently come to light is creating a storm
> among scholars who say the landmark find could reveal an undiscovered
> side of medieval Jewry.
>
> The 150 or so documents, dated from the 11th century, were found in
> Afghanistan's Samangan province and most likely smuggled out -- a
> sorry but common fate for the impoverished and war-torn country's
> antiquities.
> [snip]

Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan

---
did they depict jews whining about anti-semitism?

[Jantero]

This link works

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/23/uk-afghanistan-jewish-scrolls-idUSLNE80M02T20120123

" It is likely they belonged to Jewish merchants on the Silk Road
running across Central Asia, said T. Michael Law, a British Academy
Postdoctoral Fellow at Oxford University's Centre for Hebrew and Jewish
Studies.

"They might have been left there by merchants travelling along the way,
but they could also come from another nearby area and deposited for a
reason we do not yet understand," Law said.

[Martin Edwards]

Well there couldn't have been anything about wingnuts, they hadn't been
invented.

--
Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must
painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman

[bill]

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:55:25 -0800, Dom wrote:

> http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-

I'd be very suspicious of any antiquities coming out of Afghanistan,
especially stuff like this with no provenance at all.

"I bought it from some bloke with a beard and an AK-47 who said it was
from there" is not provenance...


--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...

[Paul F Austin]

I have a friend who is descended from Sephardim, many of whose relations
have a distinctly Asiatic cast to their features. Apparently the Spanish
diaspora scattered Spanish Jews along the Silk Road. It's not
implausible that the Second Diaspora did likewise.

Paul

[dsharavi]

On Jan 24, 4:17 am, Paul F Austin <pfaus...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 3:55 PM, Dom wrote:
>

> >http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-...

>
> > Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan
> > By Amie Ferris-Rotman | Reuters - 5 hrs ago
>
> > KABUL (Reuters) - A cache of ancient Jewish scrolls from northern
> > Afghanistan that has only recently come to light is creating a storm
> > among scholars who say the landmark find could reveal an undiscovered
> > side of medieval Jewry.
>
> > The 150 or so documents, dated from the 11th century, were found in
> > Afghanistan's Samangan province and most likely smuggled out -- a
> > sorry but common fate for the impoverished and war-torn country's
> > antiquities.
> > [snip]
>
> I have a friend who is descended from Sephardim, many of whose relations
> have a distinctly Asiatic cast to their features. Apparently the Spanish
> diaspora scattered Spanish Jews along the Silk Road. It's not
> implausible that the Second Diaspora did likewise.
>
> Paul

??? Until the mid19th century, the majority of American Jews were
Sefardim. There are still a number of Sefardi shuls across the
country, attended by Sefardim. None I've seen have "a distinctly

[bill]

I've never noted it in any of the Rothschild family that turn up on TV
now and again either.

Or this bloke either

http://www.le.ac.uk/engassoc/links/sassoon.html

And his Sephardic family migrated from India to the UK about 25 years
before he was born...

[Matt Giwer]

Medieval is not ancient. Medieval is damned near modern in comparison.
However if they contain Tanak scrolls the can be compared to the Masoretic
from roughly the same time frame.

--
Have you ever wondered what the bad guys in horror movies
do in their spare time?
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4361
http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/is-seg.phtml a14
Tue Jan 24 13:57:47 EST 2012

[Matt Giwer]

Buyer beware of course but C14 should be good enough to confirm not recently
created.

But the important thing is the content not the scroll. Unless there is
something interesting in the content, who cares?

The who in this case are people who consider anything Jewish to be sacred
which is dumb.

--
God is Black.
Is his name the White, I am Who am?
Or the Black, I be Who be?
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4376
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/ a12
Tue Jan 24 14:05:17 EST 2012

[Matt Giwer]

There was no first diaspora. All the Judeans who left did so voluntarily. The
Roman expulsion myth has been debunked since the 4th c.

--
Jews refuse to deal with their holy holocaust as a factual event because
there is no way to produce a factual description that significantly differs
from the jewish treatment of the Palestinians. As the saying goes,
everything but the gas chambers.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4364
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/holo-survivors.phtml a3
Tue Jan 24 14:09:47 EST 2012

[plainolamerican]

---
like the mistake of creating religious states?

[Matt Giwer]

On 01/24/2012 11:48 AM, dsharavi wrote:
...

> ??? Until the mid19th century, the majority of American Jews were
> Sefardim. There are still a number of Sefardi shuls across the
> country, attended by Sefardim. None I've seen have "a distinctly
> Asiatic cast to their features".

Considering Sephardic means NOT European I do not see the point.

--
Jewish people, German people
Chosen people, Herrnvolk
Zionists, Neonazis
Its all the same in practice.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4369
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo/ a8
Tue Jan 24 14:12:17 EST 2012

[bill]

So says Matt Giwer, well known anti-Semite and holocaust denier.

[Peter Jason]

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:55:25 -0800 (PST), Dom <DR...@teikyopost.edu>
wrote:

Well, doesn't this prove the Jews cornered the Silk Road trade to
China? Typical!

[Dom]

According to the article: "Cultural authorities in Kabul had mixed
reactions to the find, which scholars say is without a doubt from
Afghanistan, arguing that the Judeo-Persian language used on the
scrolls is similar to other Afghan Jewish manuscripts."

[Paul F Austin]

All I can tell you is what my friend Susan told me about her relatives.
She described them as looking "Chinese" and since she lives in San
Francisco, she lives with a lot of Orientals. It isn't as if she hailed
from North Dakota...

Paul

[John Briggs]

The first synagogue in Beijing was established in the 12th century.
--
John Briggs

[dsharavi]

See:
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

[dsharavi]

On Jan 24, 11:13 am, Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> On 01/24/2012 11:48 AM, dsharavi wrote:
> ...
>
> > ??? Until the mid19th century, the majority of American Jews were
> > Sefardim. There are still a number of Sefardi shuls across the
> > country, attended by Sefardim. None I've seen have "a distinctly
> > Asiatic cast to their features".
>
>         Considering Sephardic means NOT European I do not see the point.

Wrong, as usual. "Sephardi" refers to Jews of Iberia and their
descendants. Mizrachi Jews are Jews of the Near (Middle, and Far)
East. Mugrahbi Jews are African. The culture cuisine, liturgy,
cantillation, etc of Sefardi Jews are described as Sefardic.

And of course you don't see the point.

[dsharavi]

Which might make him Cochin. Probably not, though.

[dsharavi]

Maybe her relatives are related to Chinese or Japanese Jews?

[dsharavi]

You're right.

"Archeological evidence points to a Jewish presence in China as early
as the 8th century, when Jewish merchants traveled the Silk Road from
Persia and India. Many travelers, including Marco Polo in the 13th
century, reported meeting Jews. During the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), a
Ming emperor conferred seven surnames on the Jews, which still
identify them today: Ai, Lao, Jin, Li, Shi, Zhang and Zhao. Shi and
Jin are the equivalent of common Jewish names in the west: Stone and
Gold."

"Local gazetteers from the 16th to 20th centuries note that Jews were
successful in mainstream Confucian society beyond proportion to their
small number."

"It is also reported that in 1163 Ustad Leiwei was given charge of the
religion (Ustad means 'Rabbi' in Persian), and that they built a
synagogue surrounded by a study hall, a ritual bath, a communal
kitchen, a kosher butchering facility, and a sukkah."

http://www.jewish-holiday.com/kaifeng.html

Also:

"The merchant economy of ancient China brought Jewish traders to the
region as early as the eighth century. Jewish merchants travelling the
Silk Route settled in the far western region of the country in the
city of Pien-Liang (today’s Kiafeng), capital of the Honan province.
Jews were officially allowed in Pien-Liang in 960 C.E. and built the
Purity and Truth Synagogue, the first in the region, in 1163. The
community thrived through eight centuries, reaching its height in the
17th century at 5,000 members. But following generations of war,
poverty, and religious isolation ..."
CONT'D
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/chinajews.html

[Jantero]

Interesting material.

Wiki also has some material on this ..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_China

and on a much smaller and later presence of Jews in Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Japan

Google images gives a few interesting pics on "chinese jews".

"https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+jews&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvnsu&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=rmsfT-ObEIHYtweggYW4BQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CCMQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=771

[dsharavi]

> Wiki also has some material on this ..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_China

>
> and on a much smaller and later presence of Jews in Japan
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Japan
>
> Google images gives a few interesting pics on "chinese jews".
>

> "https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+jews&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvn...

I saw those. It's quite an interesting topic, as is Japan and Japanese
Jews.

[Jantero]

The diasporas are even greater than what I had vaguely realized.

In "A history of the Jewish people", Ben-Sasson,

Page 376 Many Jews were traders; they dealt also in those goods for
which Babylonia was a transit station between the Far East and the West,
particularly silk from China.

Page 398 a Muslim writer described a Jewish merchant group known as the
Rhdhanites. These merchants would depart from the southern ports of
present-day France and reach the trade routes of the Islamic lands via
various sea and land routes, thence proceeding to India and China, from
where they brought back luxuries or items of necessity for Europe,
[spices, frankincense silk]

[dsharavi]

A Jew was the go-between for Haroun al-Rashid and Charlemagne.

[Surreyman]

I think expert examination should answer! :-))

[Martin Edwards]

I don't disagree. Your initial post got my antenna twitching. If
you're interested, Goldman wrote the Elvis biography that Elvis fans hate.

[Martin Edwards]

That really sums up the Bible.

[Martin Edwards]

On 24/01/2012 21:26, Dom wrote:
> On Jan 24, 3:51 am, bill<blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:55:25 -0800, Dom wrote:
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-

>> from there" is not provenance...
>
> According to the article: "Cultural authorities in Kabul had mixed
> reactions to the find, which scholars say is without a doubt from
> Afghanistan, arguing that the Judeo-Persian language used on the
> scrolls is similar to other Afghan Jewish manuscripts."

To this day the Pashtun believe that they are descended from
Palestinians, but most of them do not make a big deal of it.

[Martin Edwards]

On 24/01/2012 19:10, Matt Giwer wrote:
> On 01/24/2012 07:17 AM, Paul F Austin wrote:
>> On 1/23/2012 3:55 PM, Dom wrote:
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-144850424.html

> There was no first diaspora. All the Judeans who left did so
> voluntarily. The Roman expulsion myth has been debunked since the 4th c.
>

Not only that but most of the Jews in the diaspora were descended from
converts. Though it discourages conversion today, Judaism was a
missionary religion at the turn of the era.

[Martin Edwards]

What can I tell you? Did anyone else want it?

[dsharavi]

On Jan 25, 3:17 am, Martin Edwards <big_mart...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/01/2012 21:26, Dom wrote:
>
> > On Jan 24, 3:51 am, bill<blackuse...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:55:25 -0800, Dom wrote:
> >>>http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-
> >> from there" is not provenance...
>
> > According to the article: "Cultural authorities in Kabul had mixed
> > reactions to the find, which scholars say is without a doubt from
> > Afghanistan, arguing that the Judeo-Persian language used on the
> > scrolls is similar to other Afghan Jewish manuscripts."
>
> To this day the Pashtun believe that they are descended from
> Palestinians, but most of them do not make a big deal of it.

Pashtuns don't claim descent from "paslestinians"; some claim descent
from King Saul of Israel.

[dsharavi]

On Jan 25, 3:24 am, Martin Edwards <big_mart...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/01/2012 21:16, Peter Jason wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:55:25 -0800 (PST), Dom<DR...@teikyopost.edu>
> > wrote:
>

> >>http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-...

>
> >> Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan
> >> By Amie Ferris-Rotman | Reuters - 5 hrs ago
>
> >> KABUL (Reuters) - A cache of ancient Jewish scrolls from northern
> >> Afghanistan that has only recently come to light is creating a storm
> >> among scholars who say the landmark find could reveal an undiscovered
> >> side of medieval Jewry.
>
> >> The 150 or so documents, dated from the 11th century, were found in
> >> Afghanistan's Samangan province and most likely smuggled out -- a
> >> sorry but common fate for the impoverished and war-torn country's
> >> antiquities.
> >> [snip]
> > Well, doesn't this prove the Jews cornered the Silk Road trade to
> > China?   Typical!
>
> What can I tell you?  Did anyone else want it?

Obviously not.

[Matt Giwer]

World population data show a slight increase in the number of Jews over the
war years. Facts remain facts regardless of petty name calling.

That said, it remain dumb regardless of childish name calling.

--
All Germans should not be blamed for the actions of the Nazis any more than
all Jews should be blamed for the actions of the Zionists.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4366
http://www.giwersworld.org/bible/sewer-bible.phtml a15
Thu Jan 26 09:25:57 EST 2012

[Matt Giwer]

One has to be incredibly ignorant of how the newsgroups work as well as
childishly gullible to fall for Larry Schiff's Nizkook crap.

--
If there are an infinite number of parallel universes then there
* is one in which there are no parallel universes.
* are an infinite number in which there are no parallel universes.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4374
http://www.giwersworld.org/disinfo/occupied-2.phtml a6
Thu Jan 26 09:29:57 EST 2012

[Matt Giwer]

Those of Iberia came with the Moors and left with them unless they faked
conversion with false baptism. Most of those were found out by the
Inquisition. The forced conversions in Lisbon of those who continued to delay
returning to Africa ended those being Jews by definition.

A negligible number did arrive in Amsterdam. Any predominant physical
characteristics would have bred out long ago.

If you have a different fantasy address the facts recounted in The Invention
of the Jewish People by Sand before wasting time recounting long discredited
crap.

--
In politics if you do not have the initiative
you are losing.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4378
http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ Antisemitism a10
Thu Jan 26 09:31:57 EST 2012

[dsharavi]

On Jan 26, 6:44 am, Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> On 01/24/2012 09:08 PM, dsharavi wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 11:13 am, Matt Giwer<jul...@tampabay.rr.com>  wrote:
> >> On 01/24/2012 11:48 AM, dsharavi wrote:
> >>> ??? Until the mid19th century, the majority of American Jews were
> >>> Sefardim. There are still a number of Sefardi shuls across the
> >>> country, attended by Sefardim. None I've seen have "a distinctly
> >>> Asiatic cast to their features".
>
> >>          Considering Sephardic means NOT European I do not see the point.
>
> > Wrong, as usual. "Sephardi" refers to Jews of Iberia and their
> > descendants. Mizrachi Jews are Jews of the Near (Middle, and Far)
> > East. Mugrahbi Jews are African. The culture cuisine, liturgy,
> > cantillation, etc of Sefardi Jews are described as Sefardic.
>
> > And of course you don't see the point.
>
>         Those of Iberia came with the Moors and left with them unless they faked
> conversion with false baptism. Most of those were found out by the
> Inquisition. The forced conversions in Lisbon of those who continued to delay
> returning to Africa ended those being Jews by definition.

Wrong again. As usual.

[dsharavi]

On Jan 25, 3:23 am, Martin Edwards <big_mart...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/01/2012 19:10, Matt Giwer wrote:
> > On 01/24/2012 07:17 AM, Paul F Austin wrote:
> >> On 1/23/2012 3:55 PM, Dom wrote:

> >>>http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-...

> > There was no first diaspora. All the Judeans who left did so
> > voluntarily. The Roman expulsion myth has been debunked since the 4th c.

Wrong again. As usual.

> Not only that but most of the Jews in the diaspora were descended from
> converts.

And you're as wrong as Herr Giwer.

[NefeshBarYochai]

His mother was descended from a small horse with a shanker.

[Dom]

According to Max I. Dimont ["Jews, God and History," Signet (1962)]
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0451529405/ref=cm_cd_asin_lnk ,
if Christianity had not emerged, Judaism would have become the
dominant religion in the Roman Empire; and he wrote "[...] in the
first century A.D. over 10 per cent of the population of the Roman
Empire was Jewish--seven million out of seventy million." Of these
about three million "were converted pagans or of converted-pagan
descent." The conversion rate would have been higher had it not been
for the strict dietary laws and for circumcision. [p. 113]

"The Jews held influential positions and seats of learning totally out
of proportion to their numbers. [...] in high legislative, judicial,
executive, and scholastic places." [p. 114]

[Snively Whiplash]

Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
news:4f2163bb$0$31016$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com:

>> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>
> One has to be incredibly ignorant of how the newsgroups work as
> well as
> childishly gullible to fall for Larry Schiff's Nizkook crap.

I checked that link, and it ain't "Larry Schiff's Nizkook crap", it's Matt
Giwer's drunken, racist crap.

[bill]

I think we'll treat that one as a joke.

There's far too much good stuff about that fools the experts coming out
of Rajasthan these days, I've sold some of it myself...

[bill]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:26:11 -0800, Dom wrote:

> On Jan 24, 3:51 am, bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:55:25 -0800, Dom wrote:
>> >http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-
>>
>> afghanistan-144850424.html
>>
>>
>>
>> > Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan By Amie
>> > Ferris-Rotman | Reuters - 5 hrs ago
>>
>> > KABUL (Reuters) - A cache of ancient Jewish scrolls from northern
>> > Afghanistan that has only recently come to light is creating a storm
>> > among scholars who say the landmark find could reveal an undiscovered
>> > side of medieval Jewry.
>>
>> > The 150 or so documents, dated from the 11th century, were found in
>> > Afghanistan's Samangan province and most likely smuggled out -- a
>> > sorry but common fate for the impoverished and war-torn country's
>> > antiquities. [snip]
>>
>> I'd be very suspicious of any antiquities coming out of Afghanistan,
>> especially stuff like this with no provenance at all.
>>
>> "I bought it from some bloke with a beard and an AK-47 who said it was
>> from there" is not provenance...
>

> According to the article: "Cultural authorities in Kabul had mixed
> reactions to the find, which scholars say is without a doubt from
> Afghanistan, arguing that the Judeo-Persian language used on the scrolls
> is similar to other Afghan Jewish manuscripts."

Scholars will say what they're paid to say.

I'd be prepared to bet that any proper appraisal will talk about the
importance of carbon dating and technical analysis of the ink and a
careful analysis of the marks left by any writing implement and all the
rest of it.

[bill]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:14:40 +0000, Martin Edwards wrote:

> On 24/01/2012 08:51, bill wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:55:25 -0800, Dom wrote:
>>
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-
>> afghanistan-144850424.html
>>>
>>> Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan By Amie
>>> Ferris-Rotman | Reuters - 5 hrs ago
>>>
>>> KABUL (Reuters) - A cache of ancient Jewish scrolls from northern
>>> Afghanistan that has only recently come to light is creating a storm
>>> among scholars who say the landmark find could reveal an undiscovered
>>> side of medieval Jewry.
>>>
>>> The 150 or so documents, dated from the 11th century, were found in
>>> Afghanistan's Samangan province and most likely smuggled out -- a
>>> sorry but common fate for the impoverished and war-torn country's
>>> antiquities. [snip]
>>
>> I'd be very suspicious of any antiquities coming out of Afghanistan,
>> especially stuff like this with no provenance at all.
>>
>> "I bought it from some bloke with a beard and an AK-47 who said it was
>> from there" is not provenance...
>>
>>
> That really sums up the Bible.

No it doesn't.

[Jantero]

On 1/25/2012 6:15 PM, dsharavi wrote:
> some claim descent
> from King Saul of Israel.

wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Pashtun_descent_from_Israelites

" It could be concluded that these claims appear to have emerged amongst
the Pashtuns following the Islamic conquest of Afghanistan; it is
conceivable that many tribes have created elaborate ancestral lineages
to link themselves to prominent peoples mentioned in the Qur'an such as
Jews, Greeks (see Alexander the Great in the Qur'an), and Arabs, all of
whom have come to the region, but appear to have contributed a very
small genetic input into the population rather than drastically altering
the demographics of Afghanistan. "

[The Revd]

Your momma was descended from a whole race of niggers with shit for
brains.

[The Peeler]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:04:41 -0500, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of
sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, FAKING his time zone again,
farted:

>>
>>His mother was descended from a small horse with a shanker.
>
> Your momma was descended from a whole race of niggers with shit for
> brains.

Stop projecting, psychopathic arsehole!

--
Retarded, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident psychopath, The
Retard (aka "The Rectum").

[NefeshBarYochai]

> brains.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Three people fucked your mother in the ass to create you, Satan,
Benedict Arnold and O.J.

[The Revd]

You were excreted in the middle of a bout of nigger diarrhoea.

[TheZ]

No they depicted Jew Haters like you whining about Jews.

"plainolamerican" <plainol...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b521cfb6-3150-41bc...@j15g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

On Jan 23, 2:55 pm, Dom <DR...@teikyopost.edu> wrote:
> http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-...
>

> Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan
> By Amie Ferris-Rotman | Reuters - 5 hrs ago
>
> KABUL (Reuters) - A cache of ancient Jewish scrolls from northern
> Afghanistan that has only recently come to light is creating a storm
> among scholars who say the landmark find could reveal an undiscovered
> side of medieval Jewry.
>
> The 150 or so documents, dated from the 11th century, were found in
> Afghanistan's Samangan province and most likely smuggled out -- a
> sorry but common fate for the impoverished and war-torn country's
> antiquities.
> [snip]

Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan

---
did they depict jews whining about anti-semitism?

[bill]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:44:17 -0500, Matt Giwer wrote:

> If you have a different fantasy address the facts recounted in The
> Invention
> of the Jewish People by Sand before wasting time recounting long
> discredited crap.

Professor Sand has an extreme point of view, almost as extreme as yours.

He also has a political agenda.

Interestingly, unlike you, he has no wish to exterminate anyone.

[bill]

Matt, dear child, please try and be more constructive in your comments.

People will still hate you because you're a vile piece of shit who needs
killing, but even so, try and be nice...

[Italo]

dsharavi <desh...@gmail.com> schreef:

> On Jan 25, 3:23 am, Martin Edwards <big_mart...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 24/01/2012 19:10, Matt Giwer wrote:
> > > On 01/24/2012 07:17 AM, Paul F Austin wrote:
> > >> On 1/23/2012 3:55 PM, Dom wrote:
> > >>>http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-...
> > > There was no first diaspora. All the Judeans who left did so
> > > voluntarily. The Roman expulsion myth has been debunked since the
> > > 4th c.
>
> Wrong again. As usual.

The Judeo-Roman wars are too late (after 66 ce) for the "diaspora".
It's etiological, like the story that has Romans sowing salt on the
fields around Carhage to explain the salt flats there.

"For no one country can contain the whole Jewish nation, by reason of
its populousness; on which account they frequent all the most
prosperous and fertile countries of Europe and Asia, whether islands
or continents, looking indeed upon the holy city as their metropolis
in which is erected the sacred temple of the most high God, but
accounting those regions which have been occupied by their fathers,
and grandfathers, and great grandfathers, and still more remote
ancestors, in which they have been born and brought up, as their
country" - Philo (20 bce – 50 ce)
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/yonge/book36.html

> > Not only that but most of the Jews in the diaspora were descended
> > from converts.
>
> And you're as wrong as Herr Giwer.

Modern Jews are descended from converts and related to ancient
inhabitants of Judah only for so far as modern Jews are related to
modern Palestinians.
Why do you suppose there are no published results for ancient Judean
DNA ?




--
b o y c o t t a m e r i c a n p r o d u c t s
V i v a H A M A S ! V i v a P A L E S T I N A !

[The Peeler]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:27:53 -0500, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of

sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, FAKING his time zone again,
farted:


>>>

>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>Three people fucked your mother in the ass to create you, Satan,
>>Benedict Arnold and O.J.
>
> You were excreted in the middle of a bout of nigger diarrhoea.

You are all about shit, eh, The Rectum: your "life" is shit, you are shit,
the shit keeps oozing out of your colostomy bag, you talk shit, everyone
treats you like a piece of shit!

LOL

--
The top 5 truths about our colostomy bag wearing resident psychopath, The
Rectum:

the desperate psycho can't SLEEP anymore,
he can't get out of the house anymore,
he got NOBODY to talk to anymore,
he can't FUCK anymore,
he got no life outside Usenet AT ALL!

[Martin Edwards]

Who lived in Palestine if he existed at all.

[Martin Edwards]

I didn't mean it literally. I meant that the Bible has no provenance,
or more exactly, none that can be discovered with any certainty.

[Martin Edwards]

On 26/01/2012 16:11, dsharavi wrote:
>>
>> Those of Iberia came with the Moors and left with them unless they faked
>> conversion with false baptism. Most of those were found out by the
>> Inquisition. The forced conversions in Lisbon of those who continued to delay
>> returning to Africa ended those being Jews by definition.
>
> Wrong again. As usual.

No, he's right, even if his language is a little strident. There were
never many Protestants in Spain. The main victims of the Inquisition
were former Jews and Muslims who either had or were have held to have
relapsed. There were also some captive British seaman, hence the
expression...........no, never mind.

[Martin Edwards]

On 27/01/2012 07:29, bill wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:44:17 -0500, Matt Giwer wrote:
>
>> If you have a different fantasy address the facts recounted in The
>> Invention
>> of the Jewish People by Sand before wasting time recounting long
>> discredited crap.
>
> Professor Sand has an extreme point of view, almost as extreme as yours.
>
> He also has a political agenda.
>
> Interestingly, unlike you, he has no wish to exterminate anyone.
>
>
>

I've read the book. What is his political agenda?

[Martin Edwards]

Do you have any arguments, or only assertions? Ich kann nicht für Giwer
sprechen, aber ich bin Mischling.

[Martin Edwards]

On 26/01/2012 01:16, dsharavi wrote:
> On Jan 25, 3:24 am, Martin Edwards<big_mart...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/01/2012 21:16, Peter Jason wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:55:25 -0800 (PST), Dom<DR...@teikyopost.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-...
>>

>>>> Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan
>>>> By Amie Ferris-Rotman | Reuters - 5 hrs ago
>>
>>>> KABUL (Reuters) - A cache of ancient Jewish scrolls from northern
>>>> Afghanistan that has only recently come to light is creating a storm
>>>> among scholars who say the landmark find could reveal an undiscovered
>>>> side of medieval Jewry.
>>
>>>> The 150 or so documents, dated from the 11th century, were found in
>>>> Afghanistan's Samangan province and most likely smuggled out -- a
>>>> sorry but common fate for the impoverished and war-torn country's
>>>> antiquities.
>>>> [snip]

>>> Well, doesn't this prove the Jews cornered the Silk Road trade to
>>> China? Typical!
>>
>> What can I tell you? Did anyone else want it?
>
> Obviously not.

Repeat: you are dealing with Americans, you are dealing with Americans,
you are dealing with Americans, you are dealing with Americans, you are
dealing with Americans, you are dealing with Americans, you are dealing
with Americans, you are dealing with Americans.........................

[Bryn]

On Jan 27, 11:13 am, Italo <italo_2...@operamail.com> wrote:
> dsharavi <deshar...@gmail.com> schreef:

>
> > On Jan 25, 3:23 am, Martin Edwards <big_mart...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > On 24/01/2012 19:10, Matt Giwer wrote:
> > > > On 01/24/2012 07:17 AM, Paul F Austin wrote:
> > > >> On 1/23/2012 3:55 PM, Dom wrote:
> > > >>>http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-...
> > > > There was no first diaspora. All the Judeans who left did so
> > > > voluntarily. The Roman expulsion myth has been debunked since the
> > > > 4th c.
>
> > Wrong again. As usual.
>
> The Judeo-Roman wars are too late (after 66 ce) for the "diaspora".
> It's etiological, like the story that has Romans sowing salt on the
> fields around Carhage to explain the salt flats there.
>
>  "For no one country can contain the whole Jewish nation, by reason of
>   its populousness; on which account they frequent all the most
>   prosperous and fertile countries of Europe and Asia, whether islands
>   or continents, looking indeed upon the holy city as their metropolis
>   in which is erected the sacred temple of the most high God, but
>   accounting those regions which have been occupied by their fathers,
>   and grandfathers, and great grandfathers, and still more remote
>   ancestors, in which they have been born and brought up, as their

>   country" - Philo (20 bce – 50 ce)http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/yonge/book36.html

>
> > > Not only that but most of the Jews in the diaspora were descended
> > > from converts.
>
> > And you're as wrong as Herr Giwer.
>
> Modern Jews are descended from converts and related to ancient
> inhabitants of Judah only for so far as modern Jews are related to
> modern Palestinians.
> Why do you suppose there are no published results for ancient Judean
> DNA ?
>
> --
> b o y c o t t    a m e r i c a n    p r o d u c t s
> V i v a   H A M A S !   V i v a   P A L E S T I N A !

Er?

[bill]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 13:59:17 +0000, Martin Edwards wrote:

> On 27/01/2012 07:29, bill wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:44:17 -0500, Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>> If you have a different fantasy address the facts recounted in The
>>> Invention
>>> of the Jewish People by Sand before wasting time recounting long
>>> discredited crap.
>>
>> Professor Sand has an extreme point of view, almost as extreme as
>> yours.
>>
>> He also has a political agenda.
>>
>> Interestingly, unlike you, he has no wish to exterminate anyone.
>>
>>
>>
> I've read the book. What is his political agenda?

He's a 'secularist' who believes that Israel has gone 'off the rails' by
becoming more religious and that the idealist secular Zionists of a
century or so ago were right and Israel should be run on their principles
and not on the increasingly fundamentalist and rather racist philosophy
that is emerging at the moment.

It's a philosophy that certainly has some attractions for me but his
views got quite badly burned by a DNA study that came out about a year
after the book which doesn't invalidate his theories completely but does
knock some bloody big holes in it.

For a start the 'Khazar' origins story first promulgated by Arthur
Koestler was utterly refuted

I have to add that his main areas of interest aren't ethnology and
ethnography but nationalism (which, like almost all left wing academics,
he doesn't approve of) and the history of film.

[bill]

The bible is great literature and has acted as the bedrock of three of
the world's major religions.

Some of both testaments is certainly historically verifiable

It seems to be a set of stories set within a verifiable historical
context.

[NefeshBarYochai]

On Jan 26, 3:27 pm, The Revd <peel...@degenerate.Grik> wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:11:38 -0800 (PST), NefeshBarYochai
>
>
>
>
>

> <tach...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 26, 2:04 pm, The Revd <peel...@degenerate.Grik> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:24:43 -0800 (PST), NefeshBarYochai
>
> >> <tach...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jan 26, 9:13 am, dsharavi <deshar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Jan 25, 3:23 am, Martin Edwards <big_mart...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> >> > On 24/01/2012 19:10, Matt Giwer wrote:
> >> >> > > On 01/24/2012 07:17 AM, Paul F Austin wrote:
> >> >> > >> On 1/23/2012 3:55 PM, Dom wrote:
> >> >> > >>>http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-...
> >> >> > > There was no first diaspora. All the Judeans who left did so
> >> >> > > voluntarily. The Roman expulsion myth has been debunked since the 4th c.
>
> >> >> Wrong again. As usual.
>
> >> >> > Not only that but most of the Jews in the diaspora were descended from
> >> >> > converts.
>
> >> >> And you're as wrong as Herr Giwer.
>
> >> >His mother was descended from a small horse with a shanker.
>
> >> Your momma was descended from a whole race of niggers with shit for
> >> brains.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >Three people fucked your mother in the ass to create you, Satan,
> >Benedict Arnold and O.J.
>

> You were excreted in the middle of a bout of nigger diarrhoea.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

You are the supreme asshole of the USENET. When people shit and piss
they imagine you being in the toilet asshole.

[The Revd]

Take an overdose, you stupid nigger piece of shite.
Shabbat shalom, shithead!

[The Peeler]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:30:54 -0500, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of

sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, FAKING his time zone again,
farted:

>>

>>You are the supreme asshole of the USENET. When people shit and piss
>>they imagine you being in the toilet asshole.
>
> Take an overdose, you stupid nigger piece of shite.
> Shabbat shalom, shithead!


"You are the supreme asshole of the USENET. When people shit and piss
they imagine you being in the toilet asshole."

LOL!!! People simply ENJOY pissing and shitting on you, don't they?

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Martin Edwards wrote:
> On 24/01/2012 19:12, plainolamerican wrote:
>> On Jan 24, 2:44 am, Martin Edwards<big_mart...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>>> On 23/01/2012 21:07, plainolamerican wrote:
>
>> History is what we must
>> painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman

>> ---
>> like the mistake of creating religious states?
>
> I don't disagree. Your initial post got my antenna twitching. If
> you're interested, Goldman wrote the Elvis biography that Elvis fans
> hate.

He also did hatchet jobs on John Lennon and Bruce Lee. He was preparing his
next slur fest on Jim Morrison, when fortunately, he died. A thoroughly
nasty piece of work was Albert Goldman.

cheers....Jeff

cheers....Jeff

[Martin Edwards]

Much of what you call great literature is cultural accretions. It is
surprising how little it actually says. Compare the nativity in Matthew
with a nativity play.

[Martin Edwards]

There is now a better biography of Lennon by Philip Norman. Elvis, I
don't know, but some of Goldman's allegations have been hinted at in tv
biographies without being made explicit. Also he pays tribute to
Elvis's real talents, he is just interfering with the deification
process. Morrison was one of the greatest singers rock ever produced,
but I don't think anyone thought he was a good bloke, even him.

--
Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must

[Jantero]

That might say more about shortcomings of the human condition than
anything else.

For example here are the rules for selling your daughter into sexual
slavery, as laid down by Yahweh:

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
" When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the
end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who
bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not
allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the
contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to
marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must
treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes
another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep
with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may
leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

> Some of both testaments is certainly historically verifiable

"some" meaning very little.
Some of what you find in any novel will also be true.

[bill]

I think you may find that this passage is no longer considered by anyone
to be relevant to anything much these days.

>
>> Some of both testaments is certainly historically verifiable
>
> "some" meaning very little.
> Some of what you find in any novel will also be true.

Well?

Make your point...

[bill]

That is your opinion.

Why should it make any difference to anyone?

[Jantero]

It is supposed to be from the source of the Bible - and the infallible
all knowing Yahweh.

>>> Some of both testaments is certainly historically verifiable
>>
>> "some" meaning very little.
>> Some of what you find in any novel will also be true.
>
> Well?
>
> Make your point...

LOL. My point is made.

>

[bill]

It fits the lifestyle of the people living then.

I know this may come as a shock to you, but things change.

As far as I'm aware this passage is not used today, but perhaps it may
yet become necessary at some future date.

Let me know if you ever need to sell a daughter.

[Jantero]

> As far as I'm aware this passage is not used today, but perhaps it may
> yet become necessary at some future date.
>
> Let me know if you ever need to sell a daughter.

Scummy little pimp that you are, I don't doubt that you would happily
sell any of yours.







>

[bill]

Goodness me, what a vile reaction.

Has pointing out the logical fallacy (people no longer sell their
daughters) in your rather insulting point of view upset you then?

Ah... didums...

Does the child want a sweetie?

[Jantero]

It was an appropriate reaction to a nasty little freak, like yourself,
Black.

>
> Has pointing out the logical fallacy (people no longer sell their
> daughters) in your rather insulting point of view upset you then?

That wasn't the subject, freak.

> Ah... didums...
>
> Does the child want a sweetie?

Over the years you've posted a lot of things that people would consider
perverse, about homosexuality etc.

Now you seem to be getting into new territory with pedophilia.

You're sick little fuck, aren't you?

If you ever came around a child of mine, there wouldn't be anything left
of you.

I wonder how others regard your perverse comments, freak.

[bill]

Goodness me, you are a defensive individual aren't you.

What are you frightened of?

In the past decade or more I've been accused of paedophilia (note
spelling) by only one person, and that was that nasty Spaniard.

it isn't you is it?

Your posting styles are rather similar...

Vile insults without much provocation in a vain attempt to frighten me
away.

It doesn't work child.

[Jantero]

There are a number of people who can recognize a low life freak.
You fit the bill, willy.

Everything I said, stands.

[bill]

No, you're a nasty little swine who deserves a sound smack in the teeth
for your vile accusations..

Your posting style is adversarial and accusatory and you're unable to
accept that anyone else has a valid point of view and will use any means
to try and shut them up and frighten them away.

In other words, you're a Fascist.

[Jantero]

You want to assault me, scumbag? I'm in central colorado, and you can
come try it, we can set a meet up.

I know what you've posted over the years and I say you're a coward and a
perverse freak.

This latest exchange of yours with pedophilia is not all that surprising.

Everything I said stands, freak.

> Your posting style is adversarial and accusatory and you're unable to
> accept that anyone else has a valid point of view and will use any means
> to try and shut them up and frighten them away.
>
> In other words, you're a Fascist.

And you're a liar who posts perverse nasty garbage, and then tries to
change the subject.

[bill]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 12:53:37 -0700, Jantero wrote:

> On 1/29/2012 12:43 PM, bill wrote:

>> No, you're a nasty little swine who deserves a sound smack in the
>> teeth for your vile accusations..
>
> You want to assault me, scumbag? I'm in central colorado, and you can
> come try it, we can set a meet up.

The email works, post your details.

> This latest exchange of yours with pedophilia is not all that
> surprising.

Interesting how you equate the word 'daughter' with under-age sex.

Feeling guilty about something?

>> Your posting style is adversarial and accusatory and you're unable to
>> accept that anyone else has a valid point of view and will use any
>> means to try and shut them up and frighten them away.
>>
>> In other words, you're a Fascist.
>
> And you're a liar who posts perverse nasty garbage, and then tries to
> change the subject.

I'm not the one changing the subject here, read the headers.

I notice you don't challenge the description of your actions as Fascist
though, how wise.

[Jantero]

On 1/30/2012 3:27 AM, bill wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 12:53:37 -0700, Jantero wrote:
>
>> On 1/29/2012 12:43 PM, bill wrote:
>
>>> No, you're a nasty little swine who deserves a sound smack in the
>>> teeth for your vile accusations..
>>
>> You want to assault me, scumbag? I'm in central colorado, and you can
>> come try it, we can set a meet up.
>
> The email works, post your details.

Sent.

>> This latest exchange of yours with pedophilia is not all that
>> surprising.
>
> Interesting how you equate the word 'daughter' with under-age sex.
>
> Feeling guilty about something?

No I don't.

You're a piece of degenerate garbage, Black, that is plain to everyone.

>>> Your posting style is adversarial and accusatory and you're unable to
>>> accept that anyone else has a valid point of view and will use any
>>> means to try and shut them up and frighten them away.
>>>
>>> In other words, you're a Fascist.
>>
>> And you're a liar who posts perverse nasty garbage, and then tries to
>> change the subject.
>
>
> I'm not the one changing the subject here, read the headers.
>
> I notice you don't challenge the description of your actions as Fascist
> though, how wise.

You're a name calling coward, Black.

[bill]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 08:17:32 -0700, Jantero wrote:

> On 1/30/2012 3:27 AM, bill wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 12:53:37 -0700, Jantero wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/29/2012 12:43 PM, bill wrote:
>>
>>>> No, you're a nasty little swine who deserves a sound smack in the
>>>> teeth for your vile accusations..
>>>
>>> You want to assault me, scumbag? I'm in central colorado, and you can
>>> come try it, we can set a meet up.
>>
>> The email works, post your details.
>
> Sent.

But, interestingly, not yet received...

I even checked the spam box...

>
>>> This latest exchange of yours with pedophilia is not all that
>>> surprising.
>>
>> Interesting how you equate the word 'daughter' with under-age sex.
>>
>> Feeling guilty about something?
>
> No I don't.

And I notice that your grammar is slipping...

Possibly due to panic...

The net seems to be closing...

> You're a piece of degenerate garbage, Black, that is plain to everyone.

I'm not the one who has suddenly gone all defensive...

>>>> Your posting style is adversarial and accusatory and you're unable to
>>>> accept that anyone else has a valid point of view and will use any
>>>> means to try and shut them up and frighten them away.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, you're a Fascist.
>>>
>>> And you're a liar who posts perverse nasty garbage, and then tries to
>>> change the subject.
>>
>>
>> I'm not the one changing the subject here, read the headers.
>>
>> I notice you don't challenge the description of your actions as Fascist
>> though, how wise.
>
> You're a name calling coward, Black.

No mail yet either....

Remember, it's black...@gmail.com

I'm waiting...

[Jantero]

On 1/30/2012 10:05 AM, bill wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 08:17:32 -0700, Jantero wrote:
>
>> On 1/30/2012 3:27 AM, bill wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 12:53:37 -0700, Jantero wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/29/2012 12:43 PM, bill wrote:
>>>
>>>>> No, you're a nasty little swine who deserves a sound smack in the
>>>>> teeth for your vile accusations..
>>>>
>>>> You want to assault me, scumbag? I'm in central colorado, and you can
>>>> come try it, we can set a meet up.
>>>
>>> The email works, post your details.
>>
>> Sent.
>
> But, interestingly, not yet received...
>
> I even checked the spam box...

Check again, scumbag.

[bill]

I did...

'Drive down Interstate 25, let me know when you get there' isn't
anything but an invitation to a long boring drive.

You're a buffoon whose only idea of a confrontation is bullying or
violence.

Get a life you nasty little boy.

[dsharavi]

On Jan 29, 7:26 am, Jantero <jantero...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/27/2012 9:00 AM, bill wrote:
> > On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 13:53:31 +0000, Martin Edwards wrote:
> >> I didn't mean it literally.  I meant that the Bible has no provenance,
> >> or more exactly, none that can be discovered with any certainty.
>
> > The bible is great literature and has acted as the bedrock of three of
> > the world's major religions.
>
> That might say more about shortcomings of the human condition than
> anything else.
>
> For example here are the rules for selling your daughter into sexual
> slavery, as laid down by Yahweh:

Try a more accurate translation. Neither "slave" nor "sexual slavery"
is accurate. The word used is amah -- handmaid, bondwoman,
maidservant.

> (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
> " When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the
> end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who
> bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not
> allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the
> contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to
> marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must
> treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes
> another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep
> with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may
> leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

More accurate translation:

"If a man sells his daughter as a maidservant [amah], she shall
not be freed as male servants are released.
[A man was allowed to sell a minor daughter ONLY if he was
destitute, with no possible means of support for his family].

"Her master should provisionally designate her as his bride,
and if she is not pleasing to him, he must let her be redeemed. He
[the master] is considered to have broken faith with her, and he
therefore does not have the right to sell her to anyone else.
[The father can't sell her again either, i.e., to anyone who
can't marry her.]

"If he [the master] designates her as a bride for his son, she
must be treated as any other girl.
"If [the master/son] marries another wife, he may not diminish
her allowance, clothing or conjugal rights.
"If none of the above three [redemption, marriage, marriage to
a son] are done, then she shall be released [when she reaches puberty]
without liability or payment."

Think that's rough? Place it in context of the times, i.e., the 2nd
millennium BCE. Then consider that the selling of daughter's into
"sexual slavery" is done around the world today.

> > Some of both testaments is certainly historically verifiable

> "some" meaning very little.

"Some" meaning quite a lot.

> Some of what you find in any novel will also be true.

In some novels, quite a lot will be factual.

> > It seems to be a set of stories set within a verifiable historical
> > context.

Correct. And they should be considered in context.

[dsharavi]

Correction. Men today DO sell their daughters.

[dsharavi]

What "pedophilia" was that?

[bill]

Well exactly

A reaction like that implies guilt, either real or imagined.

[bill]

Not within the context we're discussing they don't.

I don't know if you noticed, but chattel slavery has been abolished
everywhere now, even in the Sudan...

If you sell someone into slavery you're breaking a law.

[dsharavi]

On Jan 29, 9:31 am, bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 10:02:36 -0700, Jantero wrote:
> > On 1/29/2012 9:59 AM, bill wrote:
> >> I think you may find that this passage is no longer considered by
> >> anyone to be relevant to anything much these days.
>
> > It is supposed to be from the source of the Bible -  and the infallible
> > all knowing Yahweh.

The "source" of the bible are the men who set it down.

> It fits the lifestyle of the people living then.

> I know this may come as a shock to you,  but things change.

> As far as I'm aware this passage is not used today,  but perhaps it may
> yet become necessary at some future date.

The passage ceased to be relevant prior to the 10thC CE. However, the
selling of daughters by fathers strapped for cash is still relevant
across the globe.

> Let me know if you ever need to sell a daughter.

<g>

[Jantero]

Now you're not pretending you didn't get the email.

I gave you the exit along I-25 to meet at - it's little used and there's
a small parking lot right there and it would be impossible to miss each
other.

When are you going to be there to assault me for having described you
for the degenerate coward you are?








>

[Jantero]

Not that it changes things, but where did you get the following from?

> [A man was allowed to sell a minor daughter ONLY if he was
> destitute, with no possible means of support for his family].

> "Her master should provisionally designate her as his bride,
> and if she is not pleasing to him, he must let her be redeemed.

Essentially as a temporary "wife" implying sexual purposes.

This link shows a number of versions of the passage.
http://nlt.scripturetext.com/exodus/21.htm

Most are like this: (New Living Translation)

7“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the
end of six years as the men are. 8If she does not satisfy her owner, he
must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell

her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.

9But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no
longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.

10“If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself,
he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and
sexual intimacy. 11If he fails in any of these three obligations, she

may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

[dsharavi]

The within issue isn't slavery, and slavery isn't what the passage
describes.

> If you sell someone into slavery you're breaking a law.

If you ferry controlled substances into America, you're breaking the
law. If you're an illegal alien in America, you're breaking the law.
If you traffick in children, you're breaking the law.

abcnews.go.com
May 24, 2011 – A Utah mother could spend her life in jail after
allegedly trying to sell her 13-year-old's virginity for $10,000

"A woman is worth less than an animal."
"That's the tradition we have with daughters here in Afghanistan. That
is common practice all over the country - you sell your daughters."
http://freethoughtnation.com/contributing-writers/63-acharya-s/606-afghan-man-selling-daughters-is-common-practice-all-over-the-country.html

"Selling Daughters into Sex-Slavery for Sheep"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY_lnieeYNU

Kentucky couple accused of selling daughters for sex
Sep 23, 2011 – A Berea couple has pleaded not guilty to forcing their
13- and 14-year-old daughters to perform sex for money and gifts.
www.wave3.com/.../kentucky-couple-accused-of-selling-daughters-f...

18 March 2011 - A church pastor has been jailed for 11 and a half
years after being found guilty of trafficking children into the UK for
use as domestic "slaves" at her home in Barking, east London.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12789690

12 October 2011 - Over the last four years, at least 400 African
children have been abducted and trafficked to the UK ...[W]itch-
doctors and traditional African spiritual healers are becoming ever
more prominent in Britain. The work many of them do is harmless
enough, but there is evidence that some are involved in the abuse of
children who have been abducted from their families in Africa, and
trafficked to the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15280776

Need more about selling girls in Nepal, Tibet, Saudi Arabia, or
amongst beduins, Nigerians, and elsewhere? It's done today, however
illegal it may -- or may not -- be.

[plainolamerican]

On Jan 26, 7:06 pm, "TheZ" <T...@nospam.com> wrote:
> No they depicted Jew Haters like you whining about Jews.
>
> "plainolamerican" <plainolameri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b521cfb6-3150-41bc...@j15g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 23, 2:55 pm, Dom <DR...@teikyopost.edu> wrote:
>
> >http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-north-afghanistan-...

>
> > Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan
> > By Amie Ferris-Rotman | Reuters - 5 hrs ago
>
> > KABUL (Reuters) - A cache of ancient Jewish scrolls from northern
> > Afghanistan that has only recently come to light is creating a storm
> > among scholars who say the landmark find could reveal an undiscovered
> > side of medieval Jewry.
>
> > The 150 or so documents, dated from the 11th century, were found in
> > Afghanistan's Samangan province and most likely smuggled out -- a
> > sorry but common fate for the impoverished and war-torn country's
> > antiquities.
> > [snip]
>
> Ancient Jewish scrolls found in north Afghanistan

> ---
> did they depict jews whining about anti-semitism?

No they depicted Jew Haters like you whining about Jews.
---
what's to whine about jews? Without the USA they will become extinct.

[dsharavi]

On Jan 30, 12:50 pm, Jantero <jantero...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/30/2012 12:45 PM, dsharavi wrote:
> > On Jan 29, 7:26 am, Jantero<jantero...@hotmail.com>  wrote:

> >> For example here are the rules for selling your daughter into sexual
> >> slavery, as laid down by Yahweh:
>
> > Try a more accurate translation. Neither "slave" nor "sexual slavery"
> > is accurate. The word used is amah -- handmaid, bondwoman,
> > maidservant.
>
> >> (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
> >> " When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the
> >> end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who
> >> bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not
> >> allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the
> >> contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to
> >> marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must
> >> treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes
> >> another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep
> >> with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may
> >> leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
>
> > More accurate translation:
>
> >         "If a man sells his daughter as a maidservant [amah], she shall
> > not be freed as male servants are released.
>
> Not that it changes things, but where did you get the following from?

> >         [A man was allowed to sell a minor daughter ONLY if he was
> > destitute, with no possible means of support for his family].

Mishnah, Ramban, Rashi, Torah Temimah.

> >         "Her master should provisionally designate her as his bride,
> > and if she is not pleasing to him, he must let her be redeemed.

> Essentially as a temporary "wife" implying sexual purposes.

No, designating her provisionally as his bride, not wife, then,
provisionally, releasing her when she attains puberty.

> This link shows a number of versions of the passage.http://nlt.scripturetext.com/exodus/21.htm

> Most are like this: (New Living Translation)

I'm not too interested in Xian translations.

[bill]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0800, dsharavi wrote:

> On Jan 30, 12:02 pm, bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:


>> If you sell someone into slavery you're breaking a law.
>
> If you ferry controlled substances into America, you're breaking the
> law. If you're an illegal alien in America, you're breaking the law. If
> you traffick in children, you're breaking the law.
>

And, more importantly in this context, there are no rules...