'Avatar' arouses conservatives' ire
John Manning
It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
every front.
The James Cameron-directed sci-fi epic is already the
fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
billion around the globe in less than three weeks of theatrical release.
The film also has garnered effusive praise from critics, who've been
planting its flag on a variety of critics Top 10 lists.
The 3-D trip to Pandora is also viewed as a veritable shoo-in for a best
picture Oscar nomination when the academy announces its nominees on Feb. 2.
But amid this avalanche of praise and popularity, guess who hates the
movie? America's prickly cadre of political conservatives.
For years, pundits and bloggers on the right have ceaselessly attacked
liberal Hollywood for being out of touch with rank and file moviegoers,
complaining that executives and filmmakers continue to make films that
have precious little resonance with Middle America.
They have reacted with scorn to such high-profile liberal political
advocacy films as "Syriana," "Milk," "W.," "Religulous," "Lions for
Lambs," "Brokeback Mountain," "In the Valley of Elah," "Rendition" and
"Good Night, and Good Luck," saying that the movies' poor performances
at the box office were a clear sign of how thoroughly uninterested real
people were in the pet causes of showbiz progressives.
Of course, "Avatar" totally turns this theory on its head.
As a host of critics have noted, the film offers a blatantly
pro-environmental message; it portrays U.S. military contractors in a
decidedly negative light; and it clearly evokes the can't-we-all-get
along vibe of the 1960s counterculture.
These are all messages guaranteed to alienate everyday moviegoers, so
say the right-wing pundits -- and yet the film has been wholeheartedly
embraced by audiences everywhere, from Mississippi to Manhattan.
To say that the film has evoked a storm of ire on the right would be an
understatement. Big Hollywood's John Nolte, one of my favorite outspoken
right-wing film essayists, blasted the film, calling it "a sanctimonious
thud of a movie so infested with one-dimensional characters and PC
cliches that not a single plot turn, large or small, surprises. . . .
Think of 'Avatar' as 'Death Wish' for leftists, a simplistic,
revisionist revenge fantasy where if you . . . hate the bad guys
(America) you're able to forgive the by-the-numbers predictability of it
all."
John Podhoretz, the Weekly Standard's film critic, called the film
"blitheringly stupid; indeed, it's among the dumbest movies I've ever
seen." He goes on to say: "You're going to hear a lot over the next
couple of weeks about the movie's politics -- about how it's a Green
epic about despoiling the environment, and an attack on the war in Iraq.
. . . The conclusion does ask the audience to root for the defeat of
American soldiers at the hands of an insurgency.
So it is a deep expression of anti-Americanism -- kind of. The thing is,
one would be giving Jim Cameron too much credit to take 'Avatar' -- with
its . . . hatred of the military and American institutions and the
notion that to be human is just way uncool -- at all seriously as a
political document. It's more interesting as an example of how deeply
rooted these standard issue counterculture cliches in Hollywood have
become by now."
Ross Douthat, writing in the New York Times, took Cameron to task on
another favorite conservative front, as yet another Hollywood filmmaker
who refuses to acknowledge the power of religion.
Douthat calls "Avatar" the "Gospel according to James. But not the
Christian Gospel. Instead, 'Avatar' is Cameron's long apologia for
pantheism -- a faith that equates God with Nature, and calls humanity
into religious communion with the natural world." Douthat contends that
societies close to nature, like the Na'vi in "Avatar," aren't shining
Edens at all -- "they're places where existence tends to be nasty,
brutish and short."
There are tons of other grumpy conservative broadsides against the film,
but I'll spare you the details, except to say that Cameron's grand
cinematic fantasy, with its mixture of social comment, mysticism and
transcendent, fanboy-style video game animation, seems to have hit a
very raw nerve with political conservatives, who view everything --
foreign affairs, global warming, the White House Christmas tree --
through the prism of partisan sloganeering.
But why is it doing so well with everyday moviegoers if it's so full of
supposedly buzz-killing liberal messages?
"It has the politics of the left, but it also has extraordinary
spectacle," says Govindini Murty, co-founder of the pioneering
conservative blog Libertas and executive producer of the new
conservative film "Kalifornistan."
"Jim Cameron didn't come out of nowhere. He came on the heels of all the
left-wing filmmakers who went before him, who knew that someone with
their point of view would have the resources to finally make a
breakthrough political film. But even though 'Avatar' has an incredibly
disturbing anti-human, anti-military, anti-Western world view, it has
incredible spectacle and technology and great filmmaking to capture
people's attention. The politics are going right over people's heads.
Its audience isn't reading the New York Times or the National Review."
I suspect that's a good explanation. But if I were trying to get to the
bottom of conservative complaints with "Avatar," I'd offer three more
key reasons why the film has set the right's hair on fire:
Glorifying soft-headed environmentalism:
If you hadn't noticed, the conservative movement has become the leading
focal point for skepticism about global warming. The Wall Street
Journal's ardently right-wing editorial pages have been chock-full of
stories ridiculing everything including government sponsorship of
alternative energy, nutty Prius enthusiasts and scientists who allegedly
suppressed climate change data that called into question their claims
about global warming (a flap the WSJ dubbed "Climategate").
Ever since Al Gore took center stage with his documentary, "An
Inconvenient Truth," conservatives have been falling over one another in
their attempts to mock liberal planet savers, taking special pleasure in
slamming Hollywood environmentalists who fly private jets or live in
huge houses.
(As soon as Climategate erupted, two Hollywood conservatives surfaced,
asking the academy to take back Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" Oscar, even
though, inconveniently, the Oscar had actually gone to the film's
director, not Gore.)
So Cameron's giddy embrace of a primitive people who live in harmony
with their land -- and his scathing portrayal of a soulless corporation
willing to do anything, including kill innocent natives, to steal and
exploit their planet's valuable natural resources -- is the kind of
anti-technology, pro-environment dramaturgy that sets off alarms.
Godless Hollywood triumphs again:
Conservatives have complained for years that Hollywood ignores, laughs
at or disrespects religion. And to be fair, they are not so wrong. It's
almost as rare to see a film with a sympathetic portrayal of an openly
religious character as it is to see a film with a leading role for an
African American actress. I think it's a stretch to call Hollywood
godless, but it would certainly be fair to call it an extremely secular
world.
Conservatives are always quick to point out that when someone actually
made an openly religious film -- and of course we're talking about Mel
Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" -- it made hundreds of millions of
dollars.
Of course, they usually fail to mention that when Hollywood made 2005's
"The Nativity Story," a sweet, very respectful religious drama, it
earned $37 million in the U.S., just about what it cost to make. Ross
Douthat is probably right. Moviegoers are far more comfortable with a
fuzzy, inspirational form of pantheism than they are with an openly
biblical message.
Hollywood's long history of anti-military sloganeering:
There is no doubt that "Avatar" portrays its military contractor
characters as barbarous mercenaries, willing -- even eager -- to wipe
out innocent natives in their pursuit of Pandora's precious resources.
It almost feels as if Cameron is drawing parallels, not only to the Iraq
war, but to Vietnam. But while Hollywood often makes antiwar movies,
"Avatar" is something different -- a peaceful warrior film, celebrating
the newly aroused consciousness of a Marine turned defender of a higher
faith.
What's fascinating is that the American people, who have almost always
shown strong support for our foreign wars, would happily embrace a film
that portrays its military characters in such an unflattering light. My
guess is that audiences have seen past the obvious because the film is
set in a faraway, interplanetary future, not in present-day America.
When Russian political dissidents wanted to criticize their oppressive
regimes, they would often write stories or make films that were set in
the past, inoculating themselves by using a 15th century czar as a
stand-in for the tyrant of the day. Cameron has done the same thing, but
by moving forward into the future, creating a safe distance for his
veiled (and not-so-thinly veiled) social messages.
"Avatar" has, of course, far more on its mind than its politics. It's a
triumph of visual imagination and the world's first great 3-D movie.
But it is fascinating to see how today's ideology-obsessed conservatives
have managed to walk away from such a crowd-pleasing triumph and see
only the film's political subtext, not the groundbreaking artistry
that's staring them right in the face.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-bigpicture5-2010jan05,0,5932910.story
Luke Nichols
"John Manning" <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
news:fpKdnaqmVZY3s97W...@giganews.com...
>
>
> It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
> every front.
>
I don't plan on watching it.
Luke
http://www.ashesaid.com
ilbe...@gmail.com
Us 'rightwing pundits' are fine with movies that dont use the 'f'
word in every other sentence , doesnt casually promote adultery ,
et al.... and we EXPECT those in Hollywood to stop pushing every
form of moral degradation to the apathetic Masses in America before
it becomes a greater cesspool of filth . We are concerned for our
own children AND yours .... even though you are apparently
desensitized to it. Maybe it will become clearer when your precious
teenage daughter starts coming home telling you to 'F' Off / starts
showing signs of pregnancy / and-or keeps you awake half the
night giving praise and adulation to Satan thru vile downloaded
Songs ..... Whatever it takes for you to wake up and smell the
coffee to whats taking place today in this sad Nation in nearly every
home , due in large part to an out of control mass media that is only
money-motivated at peoples personal expense.
bear
Amen!
Bear
Mitchell Holman
>
>
> It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
> every front.
>
> The James Cameron-directed sci-fi epic is already the
> fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
> billion around the globe in less than three weeks of theatrical
> release.
>
> The film also has garnered effusive praise from critics, who've been
> planting its flag on a variety of critics Top 10 lists.
>
> The 3-D trip to Pandora is also viewed as a veritable shoo-in for a
> best picture Oscar nomination when the academy announces its nominees
> on Feb. 2.
>
>
> But amid this avalanche of praise and popularity, guess who hates the
> movie? America's prickly cadre of political conservatives.
>
> For years, pundits and bloggers on the right have ceaselessly attacked
> liberal Hollywood for being out of touch with rank and file
> moviegoers, complaining that executives and filmmakers continue to
> make films that have precious little resonance with Middle America.
Something conservatives constantly overlook in their movie-bashing:
Movies are one of the few things the US excels at any more. No one
wants our manufactured goods or our services and even our money is
sneered at, but the whole world wants to watch our movies. The US
is always on cutting edge, from Star Wars to Jaws to everything
Cameron ever made. Why do conservatives want muck with Hollywood when
it is so successful?
John Manning
LOL! Typical self-righteous bloviation from another loser resident of
Wingnut World.
John Manning
Wingnuts can't handle liberal successes. More than that however, they
can't admit and address their own failures.
raven1
"Avatar" is indeed an eye-popping spectacle, but I liked it better
when it was called "Dances With Wolves".
pegleg
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 04:51:09 -0800 (PST), "IlBeBa...@gmail.com"
Pegleg:
I agree!
Mitchell Holman
news:cff6k5pnq2pdfdcjd...@4ax.com:
It is the same story as Star Wars and Matrix and Harry Potter.
Our Hero is an ordinary person drawn into an ongoing battle of
epic dimensions, during which he learns he has a special power
that he must use to win the war, with the aid of some divine or
magical guidence. Along the way there are many attempts by the
Baddies to get him to switch sides, but he resists them and ends
the story in heroic battle which he wins with the help of his
new friends, with enough loose plot ends for a sequel if the
movie makes money.
It may be predictable, but it is still worth the money if it
is retold well....
Luke Nichols
"Mitchell Holman" <noemai...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9CF75143CB06B...@216.196.97.130...
Sounds like Jesus at the battel of Armageddon.
Starbuck
Another great article John, - Thanks!
*$
aa#2290
Uncle Vic
wrote:
> Us 'rightwing pundits' are fine with movies that dont use the 'f'
> word in every other sentence , doesnt casually promote adultery ,
> et al.... and we EXPECT those in Hollywood to stop pushing every
> form of moral degradation to the apathetic Masses in America before
> it becomes a greater cesspool of filth .
So who gets to decide what is filth and what is the portrayal of reality?
When I see a movie on cable that I find offensive, I turn the channel.
While you sit there and complain about it, do you find yourself stroking
your dick?
> We are concerned for our
> own children AND yours
Oh, sod off. You're not doing me any good caring about MY children. In
fact, given the priestly track record in the last century, I'd prefer you
stay as far away from them as possible.
> .... even though you are apparently
> desensitized to it. Maybe it will become clearer when your precious
> teenage daughter starts coming home telling you to 'F' Off / starts
> showing signs of pregnancy / and-or keeps you awake half the
> night giving praise and adulation to Satan thru vile downloaded
> Songs .....
Goody Two-Shoes Christian ethics aside, what business is it of yours?
> Whatever it takes for you to wake up and smell the
> coffee to whats taking place today in this sad Nation in nearly every
> home , due in large part to an out of control mass media that is only
> money-motivated at peoples personal expense.
You just described every Christian Church in the country. Without the
money you are so eager to part with, they'd all be dead. I'd rather see
a gangsta rap flick than attend one of your Sunday Morning debasing
sessions any day. And I keep my children away from that practice.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Christians are like Slinkys. They're boring, but they'll put a smile on
your face when you push them down the stairs.
Uncle Vic
wrote:
>
> Something conservatives constantly overlook in their movie-bashing:
> Movies are one of the few things the US excels at any more. No one
> wants our manufactured goods or our services and even our money is
> sneered at, but the whole world wants to watch our movies. The US
> is always on cutting edge, from Star Wars to Jaws to everything
> Cameron ever made. Why do conservatives want muck with Hollywood when
> it is so successful?
>
Maybe they can't stand the thought of political rivals getting rich.
haiku jones
Wow...
This is your brain on religion.
Any questions?
Haiku Jones
SkyEyes
> raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote innews:cff6k5pnq2pdfdcjd...@4ax.com:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 07:06:46 -0600, Mitchell Holman
>
> >>John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in
This is a myth that is seminal the world over. The late, great Joseph
Campbell named it "The Hero's Journey."
> It may be predictable, but it is still worth the money if it
> is retold well....
Predictability is its strongest selling point: we *want* to hear this
story (myth) retold over and over and over.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
BAAWA Knight
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
Ken
�R.L.Measures
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> decidedly negative light; ...
� John M. -- how ironic that it was a Republican who warned us about the
"military-indusatrial complex".
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
�R.L.Measures
Holman <noemai...@comcast.net> wrote:
** because they have a screw loose?
�R.L.Measures
<4f676d40-703e-41d5...@g18g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
"IlBe...@gmail.com" <ilbe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 5, 6:20=A0am, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> > It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
> > every front.
> >
> > The James Cameron-directed sci-fi epic is already the
> > fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
> > billion around the globe in less than three weeks of theatrical release.
> >
> > The film also has garnered effusive praise from critics, who've been
> > planting its flag on a variety of critics Top 10 lists.
> >
> > The 3-D trip to Pandora is also viewed as a veritable shoo-in for a best
> > picture Oscar nomination when the academy announces its nominees on Feb. =
> =A02.
> Songs ..... ...
� Excellent!
sully
> In article <fpKdnaqmVZY3s97WnZ2dnUVZ_o1i4...@giganews.com>, John Manning
That's back when Republicans were conservatives.
Eisenhower would be labeled a "socialist" and sneered at by the likes
of Cheney and the reich wing lie-meisters.
fasgnadh
> On Jan 5, 2:55 pm, r...@somis.org (�R.L.Measures) wrote:
>> In article <fpKdnaqmVZY3s97WnZ2dnUVZ_o1i4...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>
>>
>>
>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>> It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
>>> every front.
With the rise of a gentler, more tolerant Atheism 3.0 it is clear
why atheists love it.. the Na'vi worship the Tree of Life,
they are deeply spiritual beings, and this speaks to the hearts
of lonely and broken atheists looking for meaning! B^]
One Day, the atheists will honour the Spirits of the living beings
they have killed ( over 70,00,000 humans in the last century alone)
just as the Na'vi honour the Spirits of the animals they killed for food.
But clearly the atheists will have to evolve considerably before they
show the wisdom and depth of the religious Na'vi.
The atheists are still obsessed with the trappings of the atheist
materialist civilisation which tried to conquer the Na'vi, seeking
unobtanium:
>>> The James Cameron-directed sci-fi epic is already the
>>> fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
>>> billion
"The Love of Money is the Root of all Evil"
- Ancient Na'vi Proverb. ;-)
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
ilbe...@gmail.com
Nothing self righteous about what i said ; just asking you to wake
up , stop suppressing your moral conscience to whats going on , and
take some initiative to have integrity instead of being a Wallower in
mass media degradation (apathy) .
Dakota
> sully wrote:
>> On Jan 5, 2:55 pm, r...@somis.org (嚙瘟R.L.Measures) wrote:
>>> In article <fpKdnaqmVZY3s97WnZ2dnUVZ_o1i4...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>> It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
>>>> every front.
>
> With the rise of a gentler, more tolerant Atheism 3.0 it is clear
> why atheists love it.. the Na'vi worship the Tree of Life,
> they are deeply spiritual beings, and this speaks to the hearts
> of lonely and broken atheists looking for meaning! B^]
>
> One Day, the atheists will honour the Spirits of the living beings
> they have killed ( over 70,00,000 humans in the last century alone)
> just as the Na'vi honour the Spirits of the animals they killed for food.
>
> But clearly the atheists will have to evolve considerably before they
> show the wisdom and depth of the religious Na'vi.
>
> The atheists are still obsessed with the trappings of the atheist
> materialist civilisation which tried to conquer the Na'vi, seeking
> unobtanium:
>
fasgnatdh doesn't realize it is the lonely and broken theists who
desperately seek "spiritual" meaning in works of fiction both ancient and
modern. His post will have irony meter repair crews working late once
again.
Ken
> Where's that "proof" Dumbwit?
Meaning, of course Dimwit Dave's stated "proof" for his imaginary
"creator"
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> sully wrote:
> > On Jan 5, 2:55 pm, r...@somis.org (�R.L.Measures) wrote:
> >> In article <fpKdnaqmVZY3s97WnZ2dnUVZ_o1i4...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>> It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
> >>> every front.
>
> With the rise of a gentler, more tolerant Atheism 3.0
Atheism has always been atheism 3.0, it is only the theists who reject
that.
# Faghdagh - formerly 'Che' - was ostensibly a marxist for most of
# his netlife. He rebirthed himself only recently, presumably because
# defending basket cases like Zimbabwe, Cuba and North Korea became
# simply too challenging even for a veteran net kook.
Atheism, at least of the non-theist rather than anti-theist kind, has
always been about "Good without God". That atheism has seen and
appreciated the good done by such non-theist religions as Buddhism.
Many atheists are Buddhists and vice-versa.
In article
<da5b25cb-e210-40f1...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com@,
Immortalist <reanima...@yahoo.com@ wrote:
@ ...an alternative to traditional religion by the Humanist chaplain at
@ Harvard University
@
@ With the current state of the economy, the ongoing wars that rage
@ across the globe, and the unsettling changes to the earth's climate,
@ questions about the role of God and religion in world affairs have
@ never been more relevant or felt more powerfully. Many of us are
@ searching for a place where we can find not only facts and scientific
@ reason but also hope and the moral courage needed to overcome such
@ challenges. For some, answers to the most challenging questions are
@ found in the divine. For others, including the New Atheists, religion
@ has no place in the world and is, in fact, an "enemy."
@
@ But in Good Without God, Greg Epstein presents another, more balanced
@ and inclusive response: Humanism. With a focus on the positive, he
@ highlights humanity's potential for goodness and the ways in which
@ Humanists lead lives of purpose and compassion. Humanism can offer the
@ sense of community we want and often need in good times and bad, as we
@ celebrate marriages and the birth of our children, and as we care for
@ those who are elderly or sick. In short, Humanism teaches us that we
@ can lead good and moral lives without supernaturalism, without higher
@ powers . . . without God.
@
@ In this constructive response not only to his fellow atheists Richard
@ Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Sam Harris but also to contemporary
@ religious leaders such as Rick Warren and Jim Wallis, Epstein makes a
@ bold claim for what nonbelievers do share and believe. At a time when
@ the debate about morality rages more fiercely than ever�and when
@ millions are searching for something they can put their faith in�
@ Humanism offers a comfort and hope that affirms our ability to live
@ ethical lives of personal fulfillment, aspiring together for the
@ greater good of all.
@
http://www.amazon.com/Good-Without-God-Billion-Nonreligious/dp/0061670111
Uncle Vic
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:55:35 GMT, fasgnadh wrote:
>
>> sully wrote:
Screw spirituality. The more these morontheists diss Avatar, the more
likely a real person is going to want to go see it. Or later, buy it on
DVD. Or see it on cable. Even watch it on network TV. Or get a set of
airline earphones so they can watch it while flying to Spain. And the
bigger my Secondary Markets check gets. Muaaahahahahaha!
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> sully wrote:
>>> On Jan 5, 2:55 pm, r...@somis.org (嚙瘟R.L.Measures) wrote:
>>>> In article <fpKdnaqmVZY3s97WnZ2dnUVZ_o1i4...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>> It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
>>>>> every front.
>>
>> With the rise of a gentler, more tolerant Atheism 3.0 it is clear
>> why atheists love it.. the Na'vi worship the Tree of Life,
>> they are deeply spiritual beings, and this speaks to the hearts
>> of lonely and broken atheists looking for meaning! B^]
>>
>> One Day, the atheists will honour the Spirits of the living beings
>> they have killed ( over 70,00,000 humans in the last century alone)
>> just as the Na'vi honour the Spirits of the animals they killed for food.
>>
>> But clearly the atheists will have to evolve considerably before they
>> show the wisdom and depth of the religious Na'vi.
>>
>> The atheists are still obsessed with the trappings of the atheist
>> materialist civilisation which tried to conquer the Na'vi, seeking
>> unobtanium:
>>
>>>>> fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
>>>>> billion
>>
>>
>> "The Love of Money is the Root of all Evil"
>>
>> - Ancient Na'vi Proverb. ;-)
>>
>
Why do atheists, whose limited IQ's have been demonstrated many times,
keep trying to tell us they know what otehr people 'don't realise'?
Are they fucking MIND READERS?
I mean, it's not as if these atheists politely ASK A QUESTION, like
normal people
"Do you know X?"
It's the arrogance of those who are certain that the Na'vi have nothing
to say worth hearing..
> it is the lonely and broken theists
Who are the lonely and broken theists in Avatar????
It seems clear to everyone that the NA'vi, with their
spirituality, are Noble, Brave and True.
while the atheists are the oppressors who seek to destroy for
MATERIAL GAIN.
You really seem to be struggling.. haven't you seen the movie?
> who desperately seek "spiritual" meaning
> in works of fiction both ancient and modern.
Yes, that's how to ask a question! The answer is clearly:
All those atheists who love Avatar, Budikka et al, who gushed
about it, are clearly drawn to "the Spiritual meaning in
works of fiction.." if you think it's 'desperate',
who am I to argue.. B^]
> irony meter repair crews working late once again.
Yes who would have thought the atheists identify with
the Spiritual Na'vi, worshipping the Tree of Life, rather
than the Atheists who attack them seeking material wealth!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA
You are ALL infected with Athesim 3.0 contracted
on your visit to Pandora!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAA
fasgnadh
> Dakota struggle to understand the Plot:
>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
>>>>>> every front.
>>> With the rise of a gentler, more tolerant Atheism 3.0 it is clear
>>> why atheists love it.. the Na'vi worship the Tree of Life,
>>> they are deeply spiritual beings, and this speaks to the hearts
>>> of lonely and broken atheists looking for meaning! B^]
>>>
>>> One Day, the atheists will honour the Spirits of the living beings
>>> they have killed ( over 70,00,000 humans in the last century alone)
>>> just as the Na'vi honour the Spirits of the animals they killed for food.
>>>
>>> But clearly the atheists will have to evolve considerably before they
>>> show the wisdom and depth of the religious Na'vi.
>>>
>>> The atheists are still obsessed with the trappings of the atheist
>>> materialist civilisation which tried to conquer the Na'vi, seeking
>>> unobtanium:
>>>
>>>>>> fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
>>>>>> billion
>>>
>>> "The Love of Money is the Root of all Evil"
>>>
>>> - Ancient Na'vi Proverb. ;-)
>>>
Why do atheists, whose limited IQ's have been demonstrated many times,
keep trying to tell us they know what other people 'don't realise'?
Are they fucking MIND READERS?
I mean, it's not as if these atheists politely ASK A QUESTION, like
normal people
"Do you know X?"
It's the arrogance of those who are certain that the Na'vi have nothing
to say worth hearing..
>> it is the lonely and broken theists
Who are the lonely and broken theists in Avatar????
It seems clear to everyone that the NA'vi, with their
spirituality, are Noble, Brave and True.
while the atheists are the oppressors who seek to destroy for
MATERIAL GAIN.
You really seem to be struggling.. haven't you seen the movie?
>> who desperately seek "spiritual" meaning
>> in works of fiction both ancient and modern.
Yes, that's how to ask a question! The answer is clearly:
All those atheists who love Avatar, Budikka et al, who gushed
about it, are clearly drawn to "the Spiritual meaning in
works of fiction.." if you think it's 'desperate',
who am I to argue.. B^]
>> irony meter repair crews working late once again.
Yes who would have thought the atheists identify with
the Spiritual Na'vi, worshipping the Tree of Life, rather
than the Atheists who attack them seeking material wealth!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA
You are ALL infected with Athesim 3.0 contracted
on your visit to Pandora!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAA
> Screw spirituality.
There speaks the atheists who trample the gentle spirituality
of the Na'vi in their greedy scramble for unobtanium! B^D
> The more these morontheists diss Avatar, the more
> likely a real person is going to want to go see it.
Whose dissing Avatar, you moron.? everyone loves the Spiritual
Na'vi including numerous atheists who refuse to identify with
the atheists in the movie.. the callous bastards who would
happily CHIP DOWN THE TREE OF LIFE, if they could obtain
unobtanium! B^]
Of course.. unobtanium represents the peace, serenity and wisdom that
is unobtainable to those who respond with 'screw spirituality'
the coarse and insensitive old fogies of atheism 1.5
(even more primitive throwbacks than atheism 2.0! BWAHAHAAHAHAA!
The poor atheist, like the exploiters in the movie, can
only see material gain.. they are slaves to unobtanium,
and do not understand what is of real value in the world;
> Or later, buy it on
> DVD. Or see it on cable. Even watch it on network TV. Or get a set of
> airline earphones so they can watch it while flying to Spain. And the
> bigger my Secondary Markets check gets. Muaaahahahahaha!
Jung was right;
"Among all my patients in the second half of life, that is, over
thirty-five, there has not been one whose problem in the last
resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life.
It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because
he had lost that which the living religions of every age
have given their followers, and none of them has really
been healed who did not regain his religious outlook."
-Carl G. Jung Modern Man in Search of a Soul
Anyone can see how that perfectly describes the greedy
atheist materialists in Avatar, pitted against the Noble and True
Spiritually grounded Na'vi!
And these Usenet atheists don't even realise how they have been
seduced by the attractiveness of religion, and are all identifying
with the SPIRITUAL Na'vi.. B^D
�R.L.Measures
<f53526c0-1efa-4d47...@l30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, sully
<s...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> On Jan 5, 2:55=A0pm, r...@somis.org (=95R.L.Measures) wrote:
> > In article <fpKdnaqmVZY3s97WnZ2dnUVZ_o1i4...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >
> >
> >
> > <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> > > It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
> > > every front.
> >
> > > The James Cameron-directed sci-fi epic is already the
> > > fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
> > > billion around the globe in less than three weeks of theatrical release=
> .
> >
> > > The film also has garnered effusive praise from critics, who've been
> > > planting its flag on a variety of critics Top 10 lists.
> >
> > > The 3-D trip to Pandora is also viewed as a veritable shoo-in for a bes=
> t
> > > picture Oscar nomination when the academy announces its nominees on Feb=
> . =A02.
> >
> > > But amid this avalanche of praise and popularity, guess who hates the
> > > movie? America's prickly cadre of political conservatives.
> >
> > > For years, pundits and bloggers on the right have ceaselessly attacked
> > > liberal Hollywood for being out of touch with rank and file moviegoers,
> > > complaining that executives and filmmakers continue to make films that
> > > have precious little resonance with Middle America.
> >
> > > They have reacted with scorn to such high-profile liberal political
> > > advocacy films as "Syriana," "Milk," "W.," "Religulous," "Lions for
> > > Lambs," "Brokeback Mountain," "In the Valley of Elah," "Rendition" and
> > > "Good Night, and Good Luck," saying that the movies' poor performances
> > > at the box office were a clear sign of how thoroughly uninterested real
> > > people were in the pet causes of showbiz progressives.
> >
> > > Of course, "Avatar" totally turns this theory on its head.
> >
> > > As a host of critics have noted, the film offers a blatantly
> > > pro-environmental message; it portrays U.S. military contractors in a
> > > decidedly negative light; =A0...
> >
> > =95 John M. -- how ironic that it was a Republican who warned us about th=
> e
> > "military-indusatrial complex".
>
> That's back when Republicans were conservatives.
>
> Eisenhower would be labeled a "socialist" and sneered at by the likes
> of Cheney and the reich wing lie-meisters.
** Agreed. Neo-cons have been conned.
John Manning
> On Jan 5, 7:06 am, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>> IlBeBa...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 5, 6:20 am, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>> It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
>>>> every front.
>>>> http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-bigpicture5-2010jan05...
>>> Us 'rightwing pundits' are fine with movies that dont use the 'f'
>>> word in every other sentence , doesnt casually promote adultery ,
>>> et al.... and we EXPECT those in Hollywood to stop pushing every
>>> form of moral degradation to the apathetic Masses in America before
>>> it becomes a greater cesspool of filth . We are concerned for our
>>> own children AND yours .... even though you are apparently
>>> desensitized to it. Maybe it will become clearer when your precious
>>> teenage daughter starts coming home telling you to 'F' Off / starts
>>> showing signs of pregnancy / and-or keeps you awake half the
>>> night giving praise and adulation to Satan thru vile downloaded
>>> Songs ..... Whatever it takes for you to wake up and smell the
>>> coffee to whats taking place today in this sad Nation in nearly every
>>> home , due in large part to an out of control mass media that is only
>>> money-motivated at peoples personal expense.
>> LOL! Typical self-righteous bloviation from another loser resident of
>> Wingnut World.
>
>
> Nothing self righteous about what i said ; just asking you to wake
> up , stop suppressing your moral conscience to whats going on , and
> take some initiative to have integrity instead of being a Wallower in
> mass media degradation (apathy) .
Whose "moral conscience" are you talking about? Have you noticed the
gross moral hypocrisy of the conservative Christian Right?
~~~ ~ Porn in the USA: Conservatives are biggest consumers ~ ~~~
New Scientist - Those states that do consume the most porn tend to be
more conservative and religious than states with lower levels of
consumption, the study finds.
"Some of the people who are most outraged turn out to be consumers of
the very things they claimed to be outraged by," Edelman says.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16680-porn-in-the-usa-conservatives-are-biggest-consumers.html
~~~ ~ 50% Christians addicted to porn ~ ~~~
"The poll results indicate that 50% of all Christian men
and 20% of all Christian women are addicted to pornography,"
said Clay Jones, founder and President of Second Glance
Ministries whose ministry objectives include providing people
with information which will enable them to fully understand
the impact of today's societal issues.
60% of the women who answered the survey admitted to having
significant struggles with lust, 40% admitted to being involved
in sexual sin in the past year, and 20% of the church-going
female participants struggle with looking at pornography on
an ongoing basis...
"We directed over 100,000 inquiries to Second Glance Ministries
in one year," stated ChristiaNet.com's President, Bill Cooper.
"We are seeing an escalation to the problem in both men and
women who regularly attend church."
Evangelicals Are Addicted To Porn
If there could be one place protected from the cancerous infection of
pornography and sexual misconducts, one would assume that the Christian
church would be that sanctuary. But, recent research is revealing that
no one is immunized against the vice-grip clutches of sexual addictive
behaviors. The people who struggle with the repeated pursuit of sexual
gratification include church members, deacons, staff, and yes, even
clergy. And, to the surprise of many, a large number of women in the
church have become victim to this widespread problem. Recently, the
world's most visited Christian portal, ChristiaNet.com, conducted a
survey asking site visitors eleven questions about their personal sexual
conduct. Survey results are eye-popping and expose the truth about who
is and who is not at risk for developing an ongoing problem with certain
repeated sexual acts. Survey says - immunity does not exist.
Amazingly, there were one thousand responses to the poll conducted by
ChristiaNet.com. ChristiaNet.com partnered with Second Glance Ministries
in evaluating the poll responses and it seems the Christian community is
struggling with many of the same "temptations" that the secular society
is faced with.
"The poll results indicate that 50% of all Christian men and 20% of all
Christian women are addicted to pornography," said Clay Jones, founder
and President of Second Glance Ministries whose ministry objectives
include providing people with information which will enable them to
fully understand the impact of today's societal issues. 60% of the women
who answered the survey admitted to having significant struggles with
lust, 40% admitted to being involved in sexual sin in the past year, and
20% of the church-going female participants struggle with looking at
pornography on an ongoing basis.
"There have been dynamic paradigm shifts in the behavior of Christians
over the last four years," explained Jones. "Technology [the Internet]
has allowed pornography to flood the market place beyond a controllable
level." Jones' ministry also includes providing Christian intervention
programs for churches and for individuals. All of Second Glance
Ministries services are free and recipients may remain anonymous.
"We directed over 100,000 inquiries to Second Glance Ministries in one
year," stated ChristiaNet.com's President, Bill Cooper. "We are seeing
an escalation to the problem in both men and women who regularly attend
church." ChristiaNet.com is committed to addressing the devastating
consequences that sexual addictions can have on a family and society by
providing a safe environment for blogging discussions and referrals.
To help Christians overcome Internet pornography, ChristiaNet has just
released a free Purity Quiz. Using the latest interactive technology,
one can test their Biblical knowledge on issues facing the Christian
Community.
Surfer
wrote:
>
>With the rise of a gentler, more tolerant Atheism 3.0 it is clear
>why atheists love it.. the Na'vi worship the Tree of Life,
>they are deeply spiritual beings, and this speaks to the hearts
>of lonely and broken atheists looking for meaning! B^]
>
Perhaps they will become pantheists
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism
http://www.pantheism.net/
http://www.pantheist.net/
Andre Lieven
It would be nice if it were retold *well*:
"Naked blue giants must be the new SF trope - PZ Myers
I saw the most awesome tech demo reel tonight — a little show called
Avatar. It was well worth the admission cost, but you should be
prepared with reasonable expectations.
There isn't a plot. Well, actually, there is…but it's so predictable
that
they might as well have left it out. It's a wish-fulfillment fantasy
on rails.
Don't worry about it, as long as you don't expect to be challenged or
surprised, it's fine."
Continues at: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/index.php?page=4
I saw it on the 31st and I have to say, year, PZ got it right.
Andre
sully
>
>
>
> <s...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > On Jan 5, 2:55=A0pm, r...@somis.org (=95R.L.Measures) wrote:
> > > In article <fpKdnaqmVZY3s97WnZ2dnUVZ_o1i4...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>
> > > <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> > > > It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
> > > > every front.
snip
> > That's back when Republicans were conservatives.
>
> > Eisenhower would be labeled a "socialist" and sneered at by the likes
> > of Cheney and the reich wing lie-meisters.
>
> ** Agreed. Neo-cons have been conned.
The few honest neo-cons have seen the failure of their way of thinking
and
have apologized, the rest are in denial.
Neo-cons aren't the source of the current weirdness, though. It is a
reich wing religious ignorance that is the enemy of America, some
are Islamic, some are Christian.
�R.L.Measures
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
� that's human nature John - and that's what Shakespeare was getting at
when he wrote "Methinks the lady doeth protest too much."
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> Why do atheists, whose limited IQ's have been demonstrated many times,
> keep trying to tell us they know what otehr people 'don't realise'?
The only limits on atheists IQ's are that there minima are well above theist's maxima.
>
> Are they fucking MIND READERS?
Only of those who have enough mind to be read, which excludes fasgnadh.
>
> I mean, it's not as if these atheists politely ASK A QUESTION, like
> normal people
They , unlike fas, are the normal people.
The future belongs to the Good without God movement.
The only religions that will survive will be the non-theist ones, whose
virtues are not polluted by anti-factual theist dogmas.
Just James
>
>
> It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
> every front.
>
> fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
> billion around the globe in less than three weeks of theatrical release.
>
> The film also has garnered effusive praise from critics, who've been
> planting its flag on a variety of critics Top 10 lists.
>
> The 3-D trip to Pandora is also viewed as a veritable shoo-in for a best
> picture Oscar nomination when the academy announces its nominees on
> Feb. 2.
>
>
> But amid this avalanche of praise and popularity, guess who hates the
> movie? America's prickly cadre of political conservatives.
>
> For years, pundits and bloggers on the right have ceaselessly attacked
> liberal Hollywood for being out of touch with rank and file moviegoers,
> complaining that executives and filmmakers continue to make films that
> have precious little resonance with Middle America.
>
>
> http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-bigpicture5-2010jan05,0,5932910.story
Because, of course, the is the first time in history entertainment has
been used to make a political statement.
--
Just James
"Not everyone requires a rational explanation before they can believe
something. It's called faith." ~ Zootal (ARM 10/20/2009)
Priceless
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Why do theists like fasgnadh , whose limited IQ's have been demonstrated
many times, keep trying to tell us they know what other people 'don't
realise'?
I mean, it's not as if these theists politely ASK A QUESTION, like
normal people
It's the arrogance of those who are certain that non-beleivers have
nothing to say worth hearing..
>
> >> it is the lonely and broken theists
> It seems clear to everyone that the NA'vi, with their
> spirituality, are Noble, Brave and True.
>
> while the earthlings are the oppressors who seek to destroy for
> MATERIAL GAIN.
> All those atheists who love Avatar, Budikka et al, who gushed
> about it, are clearly drawn to "the Spiritual meaning in
> works of fiction.." if you think it's 'desperate',
> who am I to argue.
Buddism has more spiritual meaning that all of the theist religions put
together.
> Yes who would have thought the atheists identify with
> the Spiritual Na'vi
The Good without God movement beats out Hollywood fantasy.
>
> You are ALL infected with Athesim 3.0
Atheism is a part of Atheism 3.0 which is is a part of Good without God.
>
>
> The poor theist, like the exploiters in the movie, can
> only see material gain.. they are slaves to unobtanium,
> and do not understand what is of real value in the world;
Those theists whose minds are on the next world have little respect for
this one.
Lord Vetinari
news:Xns9CF75143CB06B...@216.196.97.130...
> raven1 <quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote in
>>
>>>John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote in
>>>news:fpKdnaqmVZY3s97W...@giganews.com:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> every front.
>>>>
>>>> The James Cameron-directed sci-fi epic is already the
>>>> fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
>>>> billion around the globe in less than three weeks of theatrical
>>>> release.
>>>>
>>>> The film also has garnered effusive praise from critics, who've been
>>>> planting its flag on a variety of critics Top 10 lists.
>>>>
>>>> The 3-D trip to Pandora is also viewed as a veritable shoo-in for a
>>>> best picture Oscar nomination when the academy announces its nominees
>>>> on Feb. 2.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But amid this avalanche of praise and popularity, guess who hates the
>>>> movie? America's prickly cadre of political conservatives.
>>>>
>>>> For years, pundits and bloggers on the right have ceaselessly
> attacked
>>>> liberal Hollywood for being out of touch with rank and file
>>>> moviegoers, complaining that executives and filmmakers continue to
>>>> make films that have precious little resonance with Middle America.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Movies are one of the few things the US excels at any more. No one
>>>wants our manufactured goods or our services and even our money is
>>>sneered at, but the whole world wants to watch our movies. The US
>>>is always on cutting edge, from Star Wars to Jaws to everything
>>>Cameron ever made. Why do conservatives want muck with Hollywood when
>>>it is so successful?
>>
>> "Avatar" is indeed an eye-popping spectacle, but I liked it better
>> when it was called "Dances With Wolves".
I haven't seen Avatar yet, but I seriously doubt that this is an apt
comparison. After I've seen it, I may change my mind (it needs changing
anyway, being just about used up lately).
> It is the same story as Star Wars and Matrix and Harry Potter.
> Our Hero is an ordinary person drawn into an ongoing battle of
> epic dimensions, during which he learns he has a special power
> that he must use to win the war, with the aid of some divine or
> magical guidence.
You either haven't seen any of those movies, or you never understood
anything about them. In all three cases, the protagonist is anything but an
ordinary person. In the case of Harry Potter, he doesn't even have to work
hard to get anywhere (pretty poor role model for the kiddies).
Lord Vetinari
news:cb36e58c-11d7-41b2...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Continues at: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/index.php?page=4
***********************************
What, does it have giant blue naked men in it, too? He's certainly not a
fan of graphic novels, or he'd have realized that Dr. Manhattan isn't new.
I still like PZ, just don't see the basis for his comment.
Allan Matthews
veti...@ameritech.net says...
> "Mitchell Holman" <noemai...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns9CF75143CB06B...@216.196.97.130...
[snippage]
> >> "Avatar" is indeed an eye-popping spectacle, but I liked it better
> >> when it was called "Dances With Wolves".
>
> I haven't seen Avatar yet, but I seriously doubt that this is an apt
> comparison.
I've seen a couple of published reviews that made this very comparison.
That and "Pocahontas".
[snip]
allan
--
allan_matthews[at]bigfoot[dot]com
=========================================
"And the moral of the story?
Don't leave things in the fridge."
=========================================
Lord Vetinari
news:MPG.25aed65cf...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <hi31lp$kmr$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> veti...@ameritech.net says...
>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemai...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9CF75143CB06B...@216.196.97.130...
>
> [snippage]
>
>> >> "Avatar" is indeed an eye-popping spectacle, but I liked it better
>> >> when it was called "Dances With Wolves".
>>
>> I haven't seen Avatar yet, but I seriously doubt that this is an apt
>> comparison.
>
> I've seen a couple of published reviews that made this very comparison.
> That and "Pocahontas".
OK, I guess I'll see, when I see it.
Mitchell Holman
news:hi31lp$kmr$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
Luke Skywalker was just a farm kid, Thomas Anderson ("Neo")
is just a computer programmer for an unnamed compay. Pretty
ordinary people to me. It is when they are thrust into the
ongoing battle they are told they are in fact "special". And
ditto for Jack Sully, a parapalegic vet who is only made
"special" by the unique DNA that lets him become the first
marine Avatar.
This is a retold tale, just taken to a new level.
haiku jones
> "Allan Matthews" <allan_matth...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.25aed65cf...@news.giganews.com...
>
> > In article <hi31lp$km...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > vetin...@ameritech.net says...
> >> "Mitchell Holman" <noemailple...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>news:Xns9CF75143CB06B...@216.196.97.130...
>
> > [snippage]
>
> >> >> "Avatar" is indeed an eye-popping spectacle, but I liked it better
> >> >> when it was called "Dances With Wolves".
>
> >> I haven't seen Avatar yet, but I seriously doubt that this is an apt
> >> comparison.
>
> > I've seen a couple of published reviews that made this very comparison.
> > That and "Pocahontas".
>
> OK, I guess I'll see, when I see it.
But wait! There's more!!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122261912
Haiku Jones
haiku jones
> "Lord Vetinari" <vetin...@ameritech.net> wrote innews:hi31lp$kmr$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>
>
> > "Mitchell Holman" <noemailple...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:Xns9CF75143CB06B...@216.196.97.130...
> >> raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote in> >>> <noemailple...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in
I have to completely agree, and would add Frodo.
Haiku Jones
Andre Lieven
> "Mitchell Holman" <noemailple...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9CF75143CB06B...@216.196.97.130...
>
> > raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote in> >> <noemailple...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in
At the point where Neo and Luke enter the story, they are quite
convinced that they ARE ordinary guys, and each NEEDS the
help of a mentor (Morpheus and Obi-Wan, respectively) in
order to learn what abilities they have that they were previously
unaware of.
And, Mr. Potter is by no means convinced of having a personal
destiny when he enters that story, either. It takes the whole
Hogwarths to get him up to speed & powers...
> In the case of Harry Potter, he doesn't even have to work
> hard to get anywhere (pretty poor role model for the kiddies).
My wife, who is a major Potter fan from the start, just informed
me that you are quite wrong. Harry does have to work hard at
it, just as a top level athlete has to work hard, to be able to
bring their natural talents to the top levels of achievement.
Andre
Andre Lieven
> "Andre Lieven" <andrelie...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> Avatar. It was well worth the admission cost, but you should be
> prepared with reasonable expectations.
>
> that they might as well have left it out. It's a wish-fulfillment fantasy
> on rails. Don't worry about it, as long as you don't expect to be
> challenged or surprised, it's fine."
>
> Continues at:http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/index.php?page=4
>
> I saw it on the 31st and I have to say, year, PZ got it right.
>
> ***********************************
>
> What, does it have giant blue naked men in it, too?
Relevance ?
> He's certainly not a fan
> of graphic novels, or he'd have realized that Dr. Manhattan isn't new.
Once again, relevance ? The graphic novel and film of Watchmen
told a layered and well done story. Avatar did no such thing. The
colour of any characters in either is irrelevant to that key point.
> I still like PZ, just don't see the basis for his comment.
Then, perhaps you don't understand "story", when goggling
at "spectacle"...
Andre
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> sully wrote:
>>> On Jan 5, 2:55 pm, r...@somis.org (�R.L.Measures) wrote:
>>>> In article <fpKdnaqmVZY3s97WnZ2dnUVZ_o1i4...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>> every front.
>>
>> why atheists love it.. the Na'vi worship the Tree of Life,
>> they are deeply spiritual beings, and this speaks to the hearts
>> of lonely and broken atheists looking for meaning! B^]
> >
> Perhaps they will become pantheists
That would be a step forward for the broken and lonely atheists
and then they might stop trying to destroy the Na'vi religion
in their greedy pursuit of unobtainium.
> http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism
> http://www.pantheism.net/
> http://www.pantheist.net/
>
> http://pantheists.ning.com/
>> One Day, the atheists will honour the Spirits of the living beings
>> they have killed ( over 70,00,000 humans in the last century alone)
>> just as the Na'vi honour the Spirits of the animals they killed for food.
>>
>> But clearly the atheists will have to evolve considerably before they
>> show the wisdom and depth of the religious Na'vi.
>>
>> The atheists are still obsessed with the trappings of the atheist
>> materialist civilisation which tried to conquer the Na'vi, seeking
>> unobtanium:
>>
>>>>> The James Cameron-directed sci-fi epic is already the
>>>>> fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
>>>>> billion
>>
>>
>> "The Love of Money is the Root of all Evil"
>>
>> - Ancient Na'vi Proverb. ;-)
>>
--
Mitchell Holman
news:64a12e78-0979-454d...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com:
> On Jan 6, 3:44�pm, Mitchell Holman <noemailple...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> "Lord Vetinari" <vetin...@ameritech.net> wrote
>> innews:hi31lp$kmr$1@news.e
I have heard Lion King has the same plot but
haven't seen it.
�R.L.Measures
** Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum. ("How suasive is religion to
our bane.")
Lucretius, (96?-55? B.C.):In article
<e4634051-e4d8-42b3...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, sully
<s...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> On Jan 6, 5:33=A0am, r...@somis.org (=95R.L.Measures) wrote:
> > In article
> > <f53526c0-1efa-4d47-9835-ae9f7cc50...@l30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, sull=
> y
> >
> >
> >
> > <s...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > > On Jan 5, 2:55=3DA0pm, r...@somis.org (=3D95R.L.Measures) wrote:
> > > > In article <fpKdnaqmVZY3s97WnZ2dnUVZ_o1i4...@giganews.com>, John Mann=
> ing
> >
> > > > <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> > > > > It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on near=
> ly
> > > > > every front.
>
> snip
>
> > > That's back when Republicans were conservatives.
> >
> > > Eisenhower would be labeled a "socialist" and sneered at by the likes
> > > of Cheney and the reich wing lie-meisters.
> >
> > ** =A0Agreed. =A0Neo-cons have been conned.
>
> The few honest neo-cons have seen the failure of their way of thinking
> and
> have apologized, the rest are in denial.
>
> Neo-cons aren't the source of the current weirdness, though. It is a
> reich wing religious ignorance that is the enemy of America, some
> are Islamic, some are Christian.
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >>
> >> With the rise of a gentler, more tolerant Atheism 3.0 it is clear
> >> why atheists love it..
> > It gives the world of theism a door to Good without God.
>
> > That would be a step forward for the broken and lonely theists and
> > then they might stop trying to destroy all other theists' religions in their
> > greedy pursuit of world dominance.
>
http://www.webs05.com/images/religion/cartoons/atheist-cartoon.gif
>
>
>
> > One Day, Christians will honour the Spirits of the living beings
> > they have killed just as the Na'vi honour the Spirits of the animals they
> > killed for food.
> >>
> > But clearly Christians will have to evolve considerably before
noauth
I corrected the subject line for you.
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010, Starbuck <Star...@BogusDomain.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:20:56 -0200, John Manning
><jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>It's no secret that "Avatar" has been stunningly successful on nearly
>>every front.
>>
>>The James Cameron-directed sci-fi epic is already the
>>fourth-highest-grossing film of all time, having earned more than $1
>>billion around the globe in less than three weeks of theatrical release.
>>
>>The film also has garnered effusive praise from critics, who've been
>>planting its flag on a variety of critics Top 10 lists.
>>
>>The 3-D trip to Pandora is also viewed as a veritable shoo-in for a best
>>picture Oscar nomination when the academy announces its nominees on Feb. 2.
>>
>>
The Juwes are
the men that
Will not
be Blamed
for nothing
-W.W. Gull
Teresita
when Star Wars sequels came out (that first crowd is wild, it's a really
different experience when you are surrounded by jubilant, appreciative
fans). One guy at work said Avatar made Lord of the Rings look like the
Teletubbies. I'm going to pass, because:
1. I have CGI burnout. Special effects which are mass-produced in a render
farm of thousands of computers don't have the art and the charm of simple
stop-motion work, like Ray Harryhausen in the Sinbad movies, or John
Dykstra's model work in Star Wars, or Douglas Trumbull's optical tricks in
Close Encounters.
2. It would be almost impossible to tell whether you were watching Avatar
on DVD or a kid playing Avatar on X-Box.
3. The film is a liberal screed, Dances with Wolves in Space, a 3D
powerpoint presentation of Obama's talking points that asks the audience
to cheer the defeat of American troops.
4. Bad science. Unobtainium (standing in for oil) is a room-temperature
superconductor that levitates in the presence of a magnetic field by being
opaque to lines of force. Entire mountains of the stuff are floating in
the air. But a magnetic field strong enough to levitate superconducting
mountains is strong enough to stomp those steel US landing craft (used to
attack the peaceful natives living in harmony with the climate) flat to
the ground.
5. My girlfriend is working six days a week and the one day she has off
she is not in the mood for the cinema ordeal of sticky seats, rude people,
and endless pre-film commercials
--
Teresita
http://hackylinux.blogspot.com/
Lord Vetinari
[snip]
: Then, perhaps you don't understand "story", when goggling
: at "spectacle"...
Nope. Your reading comprehension is poor. Also, there was no call
whatsoever, for your poor manners. Do I have to bozo bin you?
Lord Vetinari
news:9f2f6c6a-e6dd-40b6...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122261912
**********************************
Dhamn! I finally got around to following the link, and it's broken now.
Lord Vetinari
It's so sad, when an otherwise intelligent person fails to see the obvious.
Luke Skywalker was not "just a farm kid", as is explained IN DETAIL in the
film. Perhaps not with big arrows pointing "this part explains about", but
it IS in there, and Luke Skywalker learns of his already special status as
the story unfolds, rather than having it added to him. Sure, he had to
receive training, but he already had the special capabilites.
> Thomas Anderson ("Neo")
> is just a computer programmer for an unnamed compay.
I'm beginning to wonder if you've even seen either film. "Neo" = Jebus, the
_saviour_, the one prophesized. How the fuck could you MISS that?
> Pretty
> ordinary people to me. It is when they are thrust into the
> ongoing battle they are told they are in fact "special". And
> ditto for Jack Sully, a parapalegic vet who is only made
> "special" by the unique DNA that lets him become the first
> marine Avatar.
Having not seen Avatar yet, I can't really comment on this properly.
However, if you're familiar with Joseph Campbell's work, you'd recognize his
character as the standard hero, and I don't mean current usage as in a
firefighter, or cop, just doing his job. If you aren't familiar with Joseph
Campbell, start out reading The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Awesome stuff.
> This is a retold tale, just taken to a new level.
Similar plots do not equate to "retold tale", you know? Please don't
confuse plot with story, it just muddies the water.
Anyhow, no offense intended, OK?
Lord Vetinari
**************************
Which changes nothing, as being unaware of their status doesn't equate to
not _having_ special status. More, Luke exhibits unusual abilities, like
his unconsious use of the force, while hunting whomp rats.
**************************
And, Mr. Potter is by no means convinced of having a personal
destiny when he enters that story, either. It takes the whole
Hogwarths to get him up to speed & powers...
**************************
Sorry, wrong again. Harry grows up with the knowledge that he has powers,
but doesn't understand them. Did you only see the movies, or _have_ you
read the books? I just don't think that the movies made that especially
clear.
**************************
> In the case of Harry Potter, he doesn't even have to work
> hard to get anywhere (pretty poor role model for the kiddies).
My wife, who is a major Potter fan from the start, just informed
me that you are quite wrong.
**************************
Please inform your wife for me, that she needs to read the books again.
Only this time, take care to keep an eye out for the facts. eh. See, he
gets away with all sorts of things, without any particular penalties.
**************************
Harry does have to work hard at
it, just as a top level athlete has to work hard, to be able to
bring their natural talents to the top levels of achievement.
**************************
Simply untrue. Due to his genetics, he takes to magic like a duck to water.
It's even stated as such in the books.
Lord Vetinari
news:828abdb95310bd4b...@remailer.gabrix.ath.cx...
You make little sense, son...and throwing in your hatred of Jews is just
plain fucked up.
Lord Vetinari
news:pan.2010.01.09...@newsguy.com...
>I used to stand in line for hours to watch the first show on the first day
> when Star Wars sequels came out (that first crowd is wild, it's a really
> different experience when you are surrounded by jubilant, appreciative
> fans). One guy at work said Avatar made Lord of the Rings look like the
> Teletubbies. I'm going to pass, because:
Because you're a wrong-winger, and are letting your pathetic prejudices
blind you. Your guy at work is an idiot. The two films have nearly nothing
in common.
In one of his letters, Tolkien states, "The Lord of the Rings is of course a
fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but
consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out,
practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or
practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed
into the story and the symbolism."
Does that, for any reason, sound at all like Avatar? Didn't think so.
> 1. I have CGI burnout. Special effects which are mass-produced in a render
> farm of thousands of computers don't have the art and the charm of simple
> stop-motion work, like Ray Harryhausen in the Sinbad movies, or John
> Dykstra's model work in Star Wars, or Douglas Trumbull's optical tricks in
> Close Encounters.
Now you're crying over nothing. The special effects are NOT
"mass-produced", and render farms are not about mass production, but rather
to make it possible to process the effects/animation in a useable time
frame.
> 2. It would be almost impossible to tell whether you were watching Avatar
> on DVD or a kid playing Avatar on X-Box.
D'oh. I'd feel sorry for you, but you're an idiot.
> 3. The film is a liberal screed, Dances with Wolves in Space, a 3D
> powerpoint presentation of Obama's talking points that asks the audience
> to cheer the defeat of American troops.
You aren't even original enough to state your own opinion, in your own
words. You're a Cut'n'Paste shithead.
> 4. Bad science. Unobtainium (standing in for oil) is a room-temperature
> superconductor that levitates in the presence of a magnetic field by being
> opaque to lines of force. Entire mountains of the stuff are floating in
> the air. But a magnetic field strong enough to levitate superconducting
> mountains is strong enough to stomp those steel US landing craft (used to
> attack the peaceful natives living in harmony with the climate) flat to
> the ground.
If you were a literate science fiction fan, you'd KNOW what unobtanium is.
Its inclusion in Avatar is an inside joke, of sorts.
> 5. My girlfriend is working six days a week and the one day she has off
> she is not in the mood for the cinema ordeal of sticky seats, rude people,
> and endless pre-film commercials
Aw, poor widdle thing. Try going to a decent theatre, for once.
fla...@verizon.net
On 14-Jan-2010, "Lord Vetinari" <veti...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> "Andre Lieven" <andre...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:787e1593-66f3-422c...@34g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> >
> > You either haven't seen any of those movies, or you never understood
> > anything about them. In all three cases, the protagonist is anything but
> > an ordinary person.
>
> At the point where Neo and Luke enter the story, they are quite
> convinced that they ARE ordinary guys, and each NEEDS the
> help of a mentor (Morpheus and Obi-Wan, respectively) in
> order to learn what abilities they have that they were previously
> unaware of.
> **************************
>
> Which changes nothing, as being unaware of their status doesn't equate to
> not _having_ special status. More, Luke exhibits unusual abilities, like
> his unconsious use of the force, while hunting whomp rats.
>
> **************************
> And, Mr. Potter is by no means convinced of having a personal
> destiny when he enters that story, either. It takes the whole
> Hogwarths to get him up to speed & powers...
> **************************
>
> Sorry, wrong again. Harry grows up with the knowledge that he has powers,
> but doesn't understand them. Did you only see the movies, or _have_ you
> read the books? I just don't think that the movies made that especially
> clear.
>
Of course, there's a difference between "special destiny" and "powers."
I think there's some miscommunication, here.
> **************************
> > In the case of Harry Potter, he doesn't even have to work
> > hard to get anywhere (pretty poor role model for the kiddies).
>
> My wife, who is a major Potter fan from the start, just informed
> me that you are quite wrong.
> **************************
>
> Please inform your wife for me, that she needs to read the books again.
> Only this time, take care to keep an eye out for the facts. eh. See, he
> gets away with all sorts of things, without any particular penalties.
>
Hmm, the only things he "gets away with" are the things
that he is known to have a good reason for doing - or
stuff that he, like any other kid - can actually *hide* that
he's done.
*Some* of his abilities make certain things easy for him -
seeker on the Quidditch team, almost effortless (but not
without massive consequences - like a permanent semi-
private in the infirmary....)
Potions class, OTOH....
> **************************
> Harry does have to work hard at
> it, just as a top level athlete has to work hard, to be able to
> bring their natural talents to the top levels of achievement.
> **************************
>
> Simply untrue. Due to his genetics, he takes to magic like a duck to
> water. It's even stated as such in the books.
There's a differnce between having an innate ability,
and honing it so that it functions the way you want.
He did a Patronus faster & better than anyone
expected - but he couldn't learn Occlumency/
Legilimency to save his life!
Susan