One more reason I don't buy German cars, etc. - soc.culture.jewish.moderated

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Message from discussion One more reason I don't buy German cars, etc.
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From: mm <mm2...@bigfoot.com>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish.moderated
Subject: Re: One more reason I don't buy German cars, etc.
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 06:59:06 +0000 (UTC)
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On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:04:19 +0000 (UTC), Dennis
<tsalagi18NOS...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>mm wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:53:41 +0000 (UTC), Dennis
>> <om> wrote:
>> 
>>>mm wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:53:55 +0000 (UTC), Yisroel Markov
>>>> <m> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>On Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:00:14 +0000 (UTC), mm <mm20com>
>>>>>said:
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/world/europe/klaas-faber-war-crimi
>>>>>>nal-from-the-netherlands-dies-at-90.html 
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>>One more reason I don't buy German cars, etc.     I think any Jew
>>>>>>who does is s fool, or worse.     
>>>>>
>>>>>"A fool or worse" - not "holding a differing opinion of corporate
>>>>>culpability"?
>>>> 
>>>> No. 
>> 
>> This answer could have been longer.  If my predicate noun were
>> different, it it weren't "fool", I would have made an exception for
>> Israelis  and those who out of youth or ignorance didnt' know much
>> about Germany, especially since the war.  (As I said the last time I
>> wrote about this, using different words)    I still exclude Israelis
>> and a substantial fraction of others from "worse". 
>> 
>> But as to the word "fool", I note the common phrase, which I use
>> myself, "He's making a fool out of you".   This clearly implies that
>> the person addressed would have become a fool even if no one told him
>> that was what was happening, and even if he didn't realize it himself.
>> And that conforms with most other uses of "fool".  One doesn't have to
>> know that he's a fool or why he's a fool to be a fool. 
>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>>The situation with Ford is very different. 
>>>>>
>>>>>Is it, really?
>>>> 
>>>> Yes. 
>>>
>>>How so?  I don't recall Ford's actions during WWII, or subsequently in
>>>matters like this.
>> 
>> The OPost in this thread was not about actions during the war.  The
>> URL cited was about how Germany protected a known nazi from his
>> punishment, after he esecaped from a life sentence in a Dutch jail.
>> After they gave him citizenship.   The USA never did that.  And Ford
>> Motors didn't either. 
>
>No, though as another poster noted, Henry Ford was a notorious antisemite 
>, who built a car factory in prewar Hitler's Germany. 

Yeah, I know that, and I hate Ford the person, and I don't buy Fords
(unless they were to make a product that no one else made) , but I
don't *hate* Ford Motors.  For anyone left who doesn't think there is
a big difference between Ford cars and German cars**,  I'll just offer
A) chaque a sangue, B)  de gustibus, no es disputandum, and C) I'll
decide for myself whom I'm going to hate. 

Just as Golem couldn't convince me to hate fewer people, it's not
likely anyone will convince me to hate more people either. 

**Despite the pig in the original post working openly for Audi. 


In the summer 1973, I went to Europe to go to France to learn French,
as I had learned Spanish in Central America in 1971.   But since the
plane landed in Amsterdam, first I visited a Flemish girl I had
traveled with, platonically, for a couple weeks in Mexico and
Guatemala.  It turned out the friend she was going on summer vacation
with couldn't go, so she took me, to Czecholovakia.  

We had to cross Germany, and we did so only spending about 25 cents
each, for one apple each.  We didnt' have to buy gas, and we did stay
one night at a campground.  We got there at 7 or 8 after the guy
collecting money had left, and we awakened at 6 and left before he got
back.   I still would have paid, left the money on his desk or
something, but she didn't want to, and I certainly wasn't going to
argue.  So in this one way, she seemed angrier at them than I was.
And why was she angry?   She said, because during WWII, maybe 33 years
earlier, before she was born I think, French Belgians, collaborating I
guess with the  occupying Germans and using the opportunity when they
could  to dump on Flemish Belgians, had put her father in jail.
And how long was he in jail?  Two nights.   

Well, that's what she said. I supposed the Germans did a lot of other
things that her family didn't like either, but she didnt' mention any.
.   (This is one reason I have doubts about how long the EuroZone and
the Euro will last)  


>> During the war there were maybe 5 or 10 percent of the germans who did
>> something to oppose hitler and/or his murders, or at least really
>> wanted to but were scared. .. How do we know?  From the next sentence:
>> After the war, there was 5 or 10 percent of the germans who actively
>> promoted pacifism, disarmament, no army for germans, stuff like that.
>> They were for the most part, the same 10%. 

There is still 10% who on the literal issue of non-aggressoin, etc.
are right.  How they feel about Jews might still run the gamut. 

AIUI, the motives even of those who tried to kill hitler were to save
germany from losing the war totally, and had nothing to do with the
murder of Jews, gypsies, etc. 
>
>I remember reading in a book by Erich Fromm that there was a survey done 
>in Germany just before Hitler came to power that showed the same 
>fractions; 10% violently against the Nazis, 10% violently for, and the 
>rest fairly neutral.  Something like that.

I either got my idea from a single source like that, or I pieced it
together from reading the news, etc.  for 50 years. 

>Dennis

-- 

Meir
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