come-and-hear.com and American Mathematical Monthly
Art Werschulz
The Mathematical Association of America is a professional organization
for college mathematics faculty. Its main publication is the
"American Mathematical Monthly".
The June-July 2005 issue of the "Monthly" has an article "What Is
Just?", written by Michel Balinski. Here's a summary, found on the
MAA's website:
Equity in the sharing of things is an ever present concern, whether
it regard taxes, pensions, inheritance, the allocation of costs and
benefits among associates, apportioning seats among political
parties or regions, or setting priorities among patients waiting for
transplants of hearts, kidneys, or livers. Exactly how to share
things found Aristotle and the Talmud expounding opposing views. A
particularly enigmatic ruling of the Talmud, explained only some two
millennia after the fact, shows the importance of a concept that is
fundamental to all rules of fair division ... and is but common
sense. Known as "cconsistency" in the technical literature, a
better word may be "ccoherence." It is the reason why what is just
is so often confused with what is proportional.
On the first page of the article, Balinski quotes the opening of Bava
Metzia 2a ("Two hold a garment." and so forth). Later on in the
article, he discusses a complicated problem of asset division found on
Qetubbot 93a. (WRT the latter, he references the Aumann/Maschler
solution that was published in J. Econom. Theory in 1985.)
Unfortunately, Balinski says (in two footnotes, one for each passage)
that the Talmudic material is available for download at
http://www.come-and-hear.com.
This scurrilous website has been discussed in SCJM. The last I heard,
the state of affairs was as follows:
(1) The website has a subtle anti-Semitic agenda.
(2) The website contains the Soncino translation of the Talmud, in
violation of Soncino's copyright.
Clearly, some kind of reaction is called for. FTTB, I would assume
that the author is unaware of the issues involved. Assuming this to
be the case, a private email would be the answer; exactly what points
should be made?
I'm looking for factual information, as well as suggestions to give
the author (e.g., he should write a followup article to the Monthly,
saying such-and-such). If I were to pursue such a course and if he
were to follow this advice, I would want to be 100% sure that any
statements about this website were accurate.
Thanks.
--
Art Werschulz (agw STRUDEL comcast.net)
207 Stoughton Ave Cranford NJ 07016
(908) 272-1146
Nick
"Art Werschulz" <a...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:m264wfz...@pcp09720994pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net...
One solution to this situation would be possibly to initiate talks with
Soncino for another organisation to host their translation on the Internet,
even possibly if they were to make a charge for it.
I would imagine it is one thing individuals on the Internet suggesting that
people access the Talmud on this website, but I would have thought that
Soncino would be more interested in a presumably reputable organisation such
as the AMA suggesting that their readers download it in this way.
I doubt that the AMA would be quite so amused if their journals were scanned
so that anyone could access them without making any payment to the AMA.
So you could write to the AMA, write to Soncino, and also write to the
author.
Regards
Nick
cindys
"Art Werschulz" <a...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:m264wfz...@pcp09720994pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net...
> that the Talmudic material is available for download at
> http://www.come-and-hear.com.
>
> This scurrilous website has been discussed in SCJM. The last I heard,
> the state of affairs was as follows:
>
> (1) The website has a subtle anti-Semitic agenda.
>
Not subtle. Absolutely blatant. My understanding is that Elizabeth Dilling
(the author) wrote much of the material at the request of the Natsis to use
for anti-Jewish propaganda purposes.
Best regards,
----Cindy S.
cindys
"cindys" <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Ot2se.20326$fp6....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
What I wrote above may not be correct but if you want an eyeful, do a
websearch on Elizabeth Dilling.
Here's an excerpt from:
http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=2802894487938
--------start quote----
Chicago-born Elizabeth Dilling was the most important woman of the far right
of the 1930s. After three years at the University of Chicago (she left
without her degree), Dilling married and traveled extensively. Trips to
Germany, where she attended Nazi meetings, and the Soviet Union, which
appalled her, largely colored her thought on international relations,
awakening her sympathy for fascism and the Nazi movement in particular, and
her antipathy for communism. After being inspired by the teachings of Iris
McCord of Chicago's Moody Bible Institute, Dilling began a career as an
anti-communist speaker, researcher, and organizer. She compiled a list of
suspected communists entitled The Red Network and gradually came to believe
that an international Jewish conspiracy lay behind communism.
--end quote---
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Eliyahu Rooff
"Art Werschulz" <a...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:m264wfz...@pcp09720994pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net...
>
> The Mathematical Association of America is a professional organization
> for college mathematics faculty. Its main publication is the
> "American Mathematical Monthly".
>
> The June-July 2005 issue of the "Monthly" has an article "What Is
> Just?", written by Michel Balinski. Here's a summary, found on the
> MAA's website:
>
> Unfortunately, Balinski says (in two footnotes, one for each passage)
> that the Talmudic material is available for download at
> http://www.come-and-hear.com.
>
> This scurrilous website has been discussed in SCJM. The last I heard,
> the state of affairs was as follows:
>
> (1) The website has a subtle anti-Semitic agenda.
>
> (2) The website contains the Soncino translation of the Talmud, in
> violation of Soncino's copyright.
>
> Clearly, some kind of reaction is called for. FTTB, I would assume
> that the author is unaware of the issues involved. Assuming this to
> be the case, a private email would be the answer; exactly what points
> should be made?
>
pirated material in violation of copyright law, and that by linking to
or referencing the site, he's encouraging others to participate in the
theft of stolen material. It's really no different than if he linked to
a site with pirated music available for download except that the
material is visual rather than audio. As a matter of journalistic
ethics, I would expect the publisher to include an explanatory
retraction of the reference in the next available issue, telling readers
where they can find a legitimate copy and why they shouldn't visit the
nazi site.
Eliyahu
Art Werschulz
"Eliyahu Rooff" <lro...@hotmail.com> writes:
> You could point out to him and the publishers that the web site is using
> pirated material in violation of copyright law, and that by linking to
> or referencing the site, he's encouraging others to participate in the
> theft of stolen material. It's really no different than if he linked to
> a site with pirated music available for download except that the
> material is visual rather than audio. As a matter of journalistic
> ethics, I would expect the publisher to include an explanatory
> retraction of the reference in the next available issue, telling readers
> where they can find a legitimate copy and why they shouldn't visit the
> nazi site.
Where can they find a legitimate copy?
Eliyahu Rooff
> Hi.
>
> "Eliyahu Rooff" <lro...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> You could point out to him and the publishers that the web site is
>> using
>> pirated material in violation of copyright law, and that by linking
>> to
>> or referencing the site, he's encouraging others to participate in
>> the
>> theft of stolen material. It's really no different than if he linked
>> to
>> a site with pirated music available for download except that the
>> material is visual rather than audio. As a matter of journalistic
>> ethics, I would expect the publisher to include an explanatory
>> retraction of the reference in the next available issue, telling
>> readers
>> where they can find a legitimate copy and why they shouldn't visit
>> the
>> nazi site.
>
> Where can they find a legitimate copy?
>
living.
Eliyahu
Nick
> Hi.
>
> "Eliyahu Rooff" <lro...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> You could point out to him and the publishers that the web site is using
>> pirated material in violation of copyright law, and that by linking to
>> or referencing the site, he's encouraging others to participate in the
>> theft of stolen material. It's really no different than if he linked to
>> a site with pirated music available for download except that the
>> material is visual rather than audio. As a matter of journalistic
>> ethics, I would expect the publisher to include an explanatory
>> retraction of the reference in the next available issue, telling readers
>> where they can find a legitimate copy and why they shouldn't visit the
>> nazi site.
>
> Where can they find a legitimate copy?
>
I had understood that it was out of print but it seems to not be the case.
The Soncino Talmud site is
www.soncino.com/Talmudset.htmlhttp://www.soncino.com/Talmudset.html
price USD 850 for the 30 volume set.
The Soncino Talmud on CDROM www.soncino.com/Talmudset.html
price USD 299.00.
Davka sell it at USD 239.20.
The CDROM is at Yale Univ Library, Univ of Virginia, Princeton, Chicago Uni,
Brandeis, Barnard College, Yeshiva Uni, George Washington Univ, Vanderbilt
Uni, Touro College, Univ of St Thomas, McGill Univ (Canada).
Nick