Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Sussman and Patricia Volk, demolition and pastrami and restaurants
103 views
Skip to first unread message
mm
May 12, 2013, 9:06:18 AM5/12/13
to
Patricia Volk on Terri Gross last Tuesday, May 7, 2013, talks about
her Jewish immigrant family. Her gfather, or ggfather maybe, from
Vilna.
The part I remember was an uncle or granduncle who went into the
building demolition business. Jews were not welcome, she said, by
others in the field, but he got in anyhow, with a new method.
He would pay the owners of buildings for the right to tear them down.
Others wanted to be paid. He would rip out the roof and then start
at the top floor working his way down, with big tubes that led to
trucks below, to slide the parts into the truck. He paid a crew 5
cents a brick to tap the mortar off of the bricks, and he sold every
brick. She didn't say but I'm sure he sold all the decorative
elements of the building. He kept a blackjack and a bottle of whiskey
on his desk and he paid his men at the end of each week. "They would
come and get their money and a swig of whiskey and they would see the
blackjack, and they were happy."
Quote
GROSS: So I think it was your great uncle who brought pastrami to
America?
VOLK: Actually, that was my great-grandfather, Sussman Volk. My father
was called Cecil but his real name was Sussman. And Sussman Volk came
to the Lower East Side in 1887, and he had been a miller in Vilna, but
New York didn't need millers at that time, so he became a tinker, and
he walked around with pots and pans on his back and sharpened knives
and he felt that the life lacked dignity. He was a very religious man.
So being a religious man, being an Orthodox Jew, he knew how to
butcher meat and he opened a tiny, tiny butcher store at 88 and a half
Delancey Street. And one day a man came in from Romania and asked if
he could store a trunk in the basement. He was actually going back to
Romania. He must've been the only refugee who went back. But he was
going back and Rab Sussell, as he was called, because he was a
religious man said yes, you can store your trunk in my basement, but
what will you give me?
And the man said I'll give you the recipe for pastrami. So my
great-grandfather started curing pastrami and then people wanted it on
a slice of bread, and then he put chairs and tables in and suddenly it
was a delicatessen. And after school, all his five children came into
the store and made toodles(ph), which were little cones of waxed paper
with a dollop of mustard in them that people could squeeze onto their
sandwiches. He was the first pastrami vendor in New York. The
following year, Katz's opened. But Sussman Volk was the first
delicatessen.
GROSS: So what is the recipe for pastrami? How do you make it?
VOLK: Well, it's a step beyond corned beef. Pretend you're making
corned beef and then dry the meat. Press all these wonderful spices in
it and dry smoke it, and you'll have pastrami. And pastrami, we make
it with beef, but pastrami is a way to preserve meat. Pastrami is
actually a verb; you pastrami something to preserve it. You could do
it with fish. It was done with camel long before it was done with
beef.
GROSS: So your answer assumed that I know how to make corned beef.
VOLK: Yeah. I think to make corned beef you boil the meat in salted
water.
GROSS: I see. OK. Thank you.
VOLK: So that's the first step.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: So your parents were well-known for their restaurant. You had
an uncle who was well-known as a demolition man. He knocked down - how
many buildings in his career?
VOLK: Oh my god. Hundreds. Jacob Volk was my paternal grandfather. He
invented the wrecking ball and he...
GROSS: He invented the wrecking ball?
VOLK: Yeah. And he invented the upside-down method of house wrecking -
which was knocking the roof out and then taking the building down
inside with these huge, huge, sort of, tubes and having trucks lined
up that he would fill. They'd go directly into the truck. And he was a
Jew and Jews were not welcomed in demolition and shoring at the time
he went into it, which was in the early 1900s. But he broke into the
business by saying, I will pay you for the right to tear down your
building, and then he resold all the pieces. And he had Klondikers -
men who would chip old cement off bricks for five cents a brick. He
resold every break.
I think they were called Klondikers because they went to the Klondike
and then they came back, they weren't successful. And there were
legions of them. Eventually, he did get paid for taking down buildings
because he was so good at it. And he had time clauses in his contracts
and if he tore the buildings down before the date that they were
supposed to come down, he'd get a huge bonus at that time. He was a
very rich man. He won the land for his house that he built in
Bensonhurst in a card game with Jimmy Walker. He was a high liver, big
drinker and a fair man. He paid his men every week on time and what
they were promised, but he kept a blackjack on his desk and a bottle
of liquor and he gave them the money and a shot, and they looked at
the blackjack and they were happy.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Patricia Volk, thank you so much for talking with us.
VOLK: Thank you, Terry.
GROSS: Patricia Volk's new memoir is called "Shocked." Her earlier
memoir about her restaurant family is called "Stuffed."
This is FRESH AIR.
Her father owned and ran the best treif restaurant in the garment
center. This is discussed towards the end of the interview.
Here is the interview, audio with some text. The audio is better,
although some of the written text I didn't hear. Maybe I was busy
reading.
http://www.npr.org/2013/05/07/179872180/shocked-a-memoir-about-beauty-and-its-beholders
http://www.wbur.org/npr/179872180/shocked-a-memoir-about-beauty-and-its-beholders
The text on these two pages is different.
From wikip on pastrami
Although New York's Sussman Volk is generally credited with producing
the first pastrami sandwich in 1887, that claim is disputed by the
founders of Katz's Deli in New York, which was founded in 1888. Volk,
a kosher butcher, claimed he got the recipe from a Romanian friend in
exchange for storing the friend's luggage while the friend returned to
Romania. According to his descendant [great-granddaughter], Patricia
Volk, Volk prepared pastrami according to the recipe and served it on
sandwiches out of his butcher shop. The sandwich was so popular that
Volk converted the butcher shop into a restaurant to sell pastrami
sandwiches.[6]
Romanian Jews immigrated to New York as early as 1872. Among Jewish
Romanians, goose breasts were commonly made into pastrami because they
were inexpensive. Beef navels were cheaper than goose meat in America,
so the Romanian Jews in America adapted their recipe and began to make
the cheaper beef pastrami.
--end wikip--
--
Meir
her Jewish immigrant family. Her gfather, or ggfather maybe, from
Vilna.
The part I remember was an uncle or granduncle who went into the
building demolition business. Jews were not welcome, she said, by
others in the field, but he got in anyhow, with a new method.
He would pay the owners of buildings for the right to tear them down.
Others wanted to be paid. He would rip out the roof and then start
at the top floor working his way down, with big tubes that led to
trucks below, to slide the parts into the truck. He paid a crew 5
cents a brick to tap the mortar off of the bricks, and he sold every
brick. She didn't say but I'm sure he sold all the decorative
elements of the building. He kept a blackjack and a bottle of whiskey
on his desk and he paid his men at the end of each week. "They would
come and get their money and a swig of whiskey and they would see the
blackjack, and they were happy."
Quote
GROSS: So I think it was your great uncle who brought pastrami to
America?
VOLK: Actually, that was my great-grandfather, Sussman Volk. My father
was called Cecil but his real name was Sussman. And Sussman Volk came
to the Lower East Side in 1887, and he had been a miller in Vilna, but
New York didn't need millers at that time, so he became a tinker, and
he walked around with pots and pans on his back and sharpened knives
and he felt that the life lacked dignity. He was a very religious man.
So being a religious man, being an Orthodox Jew, he knew how to
butcher meat and he opened a tiny, tiny butcher store at 88 and a half
Delancey Street. And one day a man came in from Romania and asked if
he could store a trunk in the basement. He was actually going back to
Romania. He must've been the only refugee who went back. But he was
going back and Rab Sussell, as he was called, because he was a
religious man said yes, you can store your trunk in my basement, but
what will you give me?
And the man said I'll give you the recipe for pastrami. So my
great-grandfather started curing pastrami and then people wanted it on
a slice of bread, and then he put chairs and tables in and suddenly it
was a delicatessen. And after school, all his five children came into
the store and made toodles(ph), which were little cones of waxed paper
with a dollop of mustard in them that people could squeeze onto their
sandwiches. He was the first pastrami vendor in New York. The
following year, Katz's opened. But Sussman Volk was the first
delicatessen.
GROSS: So what is the recipe for pastrami? How do you make it?
VOLK: Well, it's a step beyond corned beef. Pretend you're making
corned beef and then dry the meat. Press all these wonderful spices in
it and dry smoke it, and you'll have pastrami. And pastrami, we make
it with beef, but pastrami is a way to preserve meat. Pastrami is
actually a verb; you pastrami something to preserve it. You could do
it with fish. It was done with camel long before it was done with
beef.
GROSS: So your answer assumed that I know how to make corned beef.
VOLK: Yeah. I think to make corned beef you boil the meat in salted
water.
GROSS: I see. OK. Thank you.
VOLK: So that's the first step.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: So your parents were well-known for their restaurant. You had
an uncle who was well-known as a demolition man. He knocked down - how
many buildings in his career?
VOLK: Oh my god. Hundreds. Jacob Volk was my paternal grandfather. He
invented the wrecking ball and he...
GROSS: He invented the wrecking ball?
VOLK: Yeah. And he invented the upside-down method of house wrecking -
which was knocking the roof out and then taking the building down
inside with these huge, huge, sort of, tubes and having trucks lined
up that he would fill. They'd go directly into the truck. And he was a
Jew and Jews were not welcomed in demolition and shoring at the time
he went into it, which was in the early 1900s. But he broke into the
business by saying, I will pay you for the right to tear down your
building, and then he resold all the pieces. And he had Klondikers -
men who would chip old cement off bricks for five cents a brick. He
resold every break.
I think they were called Klondikers because they went to the Klondike
and then they came back, they weren't successful. And there were
legions of them. Eventually, he did get paid for taking down buildings
because he was so good at it. And he had time clauses in his contracts
and if he tore the buildings down before the date that they were
supposed to come down, he'd get a huge bonus at that time. He was a
very rich man. He won the land for his house that he built in
Bensonhurst in a card game with Jimmy Walker. He was a high liver, big
drinker and a fair man. He paid his men every week on time and what
they were promised, but he kept a blackjack on his desk and a bottle
of liquor and he gave them the money and a shot, and they looked at
the blackjack and they were happy.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Patricia Volk, thank you so much for talking with us.
VOLK: Thank you, Terry.
GROSS: Patricia Volk's new memoir is called "Shocked." Her earlier
memoir about her restaurant family is called "Stuffed."
This is FRESH AIR.
Her father owned and ran the best treif restaurant in the garment
center. This is discussed towards the end of the interview.
Here is the interview, audio with some text. The audio is better,
although some of the written text I didn't hear. Maybe I was busy
reading.
http://www.npr.org/2013/05/07/179872180/shocked-a-memoir-about-beauty-and-its-beholders
http://www.wbur.org/npr/179872180/shocked-a-memoir-about-beauty-and-its-beholders
The text on these two pages is different.
From wikip on pastrami
Although New York's Sussman Volk is generally credited with producing
the first pastrami sandwich in 1887, that claim is disputed by the
founders of Katz's Deli in New York, which was founded in 1888. Volk,
a kosher butcher, claimed he got the recipe from a Romanian friend in
exchange for storing the friend's luggage while the friend returned to
Romania. According to his descendant [great-granddaughter], Patricia
Volk, Volk prepared pastrami according to the recipe and served it on
sandwiches out of his butcher shop. The sandwich was so popular that
Volk converted the butcher shop into a restaurant to sell pastrami
sandwiches.[6]
Romanian Jews immigrated to New York as early as 1872. Among Jewish
Romanians, goose breasts were commonly made into pastrami because they
were inexpensive. Beef navels were cheaper than goose meat in America,
so the Romanian Jews in America adapted their recipe and began to make
the cheaper beef pastrami.
--end wikip--
--
Meir
W. Baker
May 12, 2013, 2:46:03 PM5/12/13
to
mm <mm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
: Patricia Volk on Terri Gross last Tuesday, May 7, 2013, talks about
Thanks! this was a nice story to read on Mothers Day, although it ws
about fathers,and grand fathers:-)
Wendy:
: Patricia Volk on Terri Gross last Tuesday, May 7, 2013, talks about
about fathers,and grand fathers:-)
Wendy:
Giorgies E Kepipesiom
May 12, 2013, 4:22:50 PM5/12/13
to
On May 12, 9:06 am, mm <mm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
Somebody gave a long and hard pull on somebody's leg. Some people fell
for this long tale. I hope you don't expect we too will fall for it.
By the way, pastrami is not corned beef that has been cured and dried.
The big difference with pastrami is that lots of black pepper is used
in the curing process, whilst with corned beef it is not.
This might have been slightly amusing were it not so overly
eggagerated as to be ridiculous.
GEK
whishing good yom tov to all
Somebody gave a long and hard pull on somebody's leg. Some people fell
for this long tale. I hope you don't expect we too will fall for it.
By the way, pastrami is not corned beef that has been cured and dried.
The big difference with pastrami is that lots of black pepper is used
in the curing process, whilst with corned beef it is not.
This might have been slightly amusing were it not so overly
eggagerated as to be ridiculous.
GEK
whishing good yom tov to all
mm
May 12, 2013, 6:45:49 PM5/12/13
to
On Sun, 12 May 2013 20:22:50 +0000 (UTC), Giorgies E Kepipesiom
<kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On May 12, 9:06�am, mm <mm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>Somebody gave a long and hard pull on somebody's leg.
Trouble is, you're like the boy who cried wolf. You have something
<kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On May 12, 9:06�am, mm <mm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>Somebody gave a long and hard pull on somebody's leg.
negative to say about almost every post anyone makes, and I for one
don't take you seriously anymore.
Were you nursed on sour milk?
--
Meir
Ken
May 12, 2013, 10:21:37 PM5/12/13
to
On Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:46:03 AM UTC-7, W. Baker wrote:
I read this posting earlier today, and now I'm listening to it on NPR. SCJM scooped NPR.
Ken
> mm <mm2005@> wrote:
>
> : Patricia Volk on Terri Gross last Tuesday, May 7, 2013, talks about
>
> : her Jewish immigrant family. Her gfather, or ggfather maybe, from
>
> : Vilna.
(snip, snip, and more snip)
>
> : Patricia Volk on Terri Gross last Tuesday, May 7, 2013, talks about
>
> : her Jewish immigrant family. Her gfather, or ggfather maybe, from
>
> : Vilna.
I read this posting earlier today, and now I'm listening to it on NPR. SCJM scooped NPR.
Ken
Yisroel Markov
May 13, 2013, 12:36:30 PM5/13/13
to
On Sun, 12 May 2013 22:45:49 +0000 (UTC), mm <mm2...@bigfoot.com>
said:
>On Sun, 12 May 2013 20:22:50 +0000 (UTC), Giorgies E Kepipesiom
><kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On May 12, 9:06 am, mm <mm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>Somebody gave a long and hard pull on somebody's leg.
>
>Trouble is, you're like the boy who cried wolf. You have something
>negative to say about almost every post anyone makes,
Negative can be constructive. OTOH, positive is usually a "me too"
response, which can make warm fuzzies, but often carries very little
additional information.
>and I for one don't take you seriously anymore.
I do.
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
said:
>On Sun, 12 May 2013 20:22:50 +0000 (UTC), Giorgies E Kepipesiom
><kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On May 12, 9:06 am, mm <mm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>>Somebody gave a long and hard pull on somebody's leg.
>
>Trouble is, you're like the boy who cried wolf. You have something
>negative to say about almost every post anyone makes,
response, which can make warm fuzzies, but often carries very little
additional information.
>and I for one don't take you seriously anymore.
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
keiths...@gmail.com
Jul 26, 2014, 5:52:34 PM7/26/14
to
Patricia,
I have all kinds of history deeds ,land maps , first aid kits with your grandfathers name all over them just trying to get a little more info on the Great JAcob !
Keith
I have all kinds of history deeds ,land maps , first aid kits with your grandfathers name all over them just trying to get a little more info on the Great JAcob !
Keith
keiths...@gmail.com
Jul 27, 2014, 1:47:30 AM7/27/14
to
Patricia
My name is Keith DeYoung,
I live in your grandfathers estate in Oakland ,NJ
And would like to gather more history of the legend Jacob VOLK! I know it was 26 acres and consisted of the main house , library cottage , stone masons house , and the stone garage over looking Ramapo valley road ! My email is
Keiths...@verizon.net
Thank you
Keith
My name is Keith DeYoung,
I live in your grandfathers estate in Oakland ,NJ
And would like to gather more history of the legend Jacob VOLK! I know it was 26 acres and consisted of the main house , library cottage , stone masons house , and the stone garage over looking Ramapo valley road ! My email is
Keiths...@verizon.net
Thank you
Keith
keiths...@gmail.com
Jul 27, 2014, 1:48:17 AM7/27/14
to
[ Moderator's Comment: these would make more sense in personal e mail, not
on the list. hw ]
on the list. hw ]
mm
Jul 27, 2014, 2:06:01 AM7/27/14
to
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 05:48:17 +0000 (UTC), keiths...@gmail.com wrote:
>[ Moderator's Comment: these would make more sense in personal e mail, not
> on the list. hw ]
Maybe he doesn't know her email address.
>[ Moderator's Comment: these would make more sense in personal e mail, not
> on the list. hw ]
>Patricia,
>I have all kinds of history deeds ,land maps , first aid kits with your grandfathers name all over them just trying to get a little more info on the Great JAcob !
>Keith
Meir
It is better to eat an onion in Jerusalem than a cockerel in Egypt. 1055CE
0 new messages