JTA: Obama shifts to Israel’s corner...
Jay L
Jay
chsw
He does a very, very good job at not showing it.
chsw
Joe Bruno
> Jay L wrote:
> > JTA: Obama shifts to Israel’s corner, but tries not to show it
>
>
> > Jay
>
> He does a very, very good job at not showing it.
>
> chsw
Yes, and tommorrow, he will shift once more to a different position.
What his views are depends on two things:
1.Who his audience is
2.What side of the bed he awoke on that morning.
fla...@verizon.net
Which was the MAIN reason I refused to vote for him.
Politicians are known to behave like this, but when he
did a 180% flipflop on Jerusalem, he exposed himself
as not just 2-faced, but unable to even be clever about it.
Susan
Joe Bruno
>
> - Show quoted text -
Did you know that Joe Lieberman, the Orthodox Jewish Senator from
Connecticutt, a Democrat, campaigned for John McCain in 2008? He hates
Obama and doesn't trust him. Joe is now opposing Obama's healthcare
plan in the Senate.
Abe Kohen
Israel is visible. Wow! Coulda fooled me. Not!
Abe
"Jay L" <levi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5fa32245-af2b-46ea...@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
mm
wrote:
>On Nov 11, 1:36 pm, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
>> On 11-Nov-2009, Joe Bruno <joebr...@usa.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 11, 12:20 pm, chsw <chsw10...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > Jay L wrote:
>> > > > JTA: Obama shifts to Israel’s corner, but tries not to show it
>>
>> > > >>>>>>http://jta.org/news/article/2009/11/10/1009099/obama-shifts-into-isra...
>>
>> > > > Jay
>>
>> > > He does a very, very good job at not showing it.
>>
>> > > chsw
>>
>> > Yes, and tommorrow, he will shift once more to a different position.
>> > What his views are depends on two things:
>>
>> > 1.Who his audience is
>> > 2.What side of the bed he awoke on that morning.
>>
>> Which was the MAIN reason I refused to vote for him.
>> Politicians are known to behave like this, but when he
>> did a 180% flipflop on Jerusalem, he exposed himself
>> as not just 2-faced, but unable to even be clever about it.
>>
>> Susan-
>
>Did you know that Joe Lieberman, the Orthodox Jewish Senator from
>Connecticutt, a Democrat, campaigned for John McCain in 2008?
I think almost everyone in America knows that. He was in loads of
videos and pictures campaigning with McCain. He spoke for him at the
Republican national convention.
>He hates
>Obama
You have no basis to say he hates Obama. You shouldn't make things
up. (If you say you didn't, show me some basis.) Especially something
that attributes hatred to a Jew.
> and doesn't trust him.
I doubt you have any valid basis to say he doesn't trust him. I say
"valid" because I see people come up with all sorts of non-logical
conclusions from combinations of facts, allegations, and suspicions.
Lieberman's a bigb boy and he's been in politics a long time. He
knows the difference between a statement not subject to conditions and
puffing.
That you distrust Obama and perhaps hate him and that Lieberman
disagrees with him don't imply that Lieberman distrusts or hates him.
> Joe is now opposing Obama's healthcare
>plan in the Senate.
True.
--
Meir
"The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
Jay L
a Jewish senator is being discussed is not a reason to get into a
general discussion of American local politics. HPG ]
Joe Lieberman is not a Democrat. He lost the Democrat primary in
Connecticut, and was elected as an Independent. He caucuses with the
Democrats on some issues, but not on healthcare. He also comes from a
state which depends heavily on the insurance industry, so most people
are not surprised by his position. By the way, he does not object to
the entire health care reform package, but mostly to the public option
of it, which the insurance industry most detests.
I'd be very surprised if he can get elected again in Connecticut,
given his campaigning for McCain and his generally Republican
leanings. But he can't really switch to the Republicans because he is
for gay rights and is pro-Choice, positions which today's Republicans
do not tolerate.
Jay
Joe Bruno
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:00:08 +0000 (UTC), Joe Bruno <joebr...@usa.com>
What nonsense!Jews are human and humans hate.
You gonna tell me you don't hate Adolf Hitler?
Do you not hate Yasser Arafat?Do Jews not hate Yasser Arafat?
How do you feel about the President of Iran?
>
> > and doesn't trust him.
>
> I doubt you have any valid basis to say he doesn't trust him. I say
> "valid" because I see people come up with all sorts of non-logical
> conclusions from combinations of facts, allegations, and suspicions.
It's my opinion, obviously.I can't read Joe Lieberman's mind and
neither can you.
>
> Lieberman's a bigb boy and he's been in politics a long time. He
> knows the difference between a statement not subject to conditions and
> puffing.
....which means exactly what?????
>
> That you distrust Obama and perhaps hate him and that Lieberman
> disagrees with him don't imply that Lieberman distrusts or hates him.
How do you know how I feel?
If I need Psychoanalysis, I'll go see a shrink.
>
fla...@verizon.net
On 11-Nov-2009, Joe Bruno <joeb...@usa.com> wrote:
> > Which was the MAIN reason I refused to vote for him.
> > Politicians are known to behave like this, but when he
> > did a 180% flipflop on Jerusalem, he exposed himself
> > as not just 2-faced, but unable to even be clever about it.
> >
> > Susan- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Did you know that Joe Lieberman, the Orthodox Jewish Senator from
> Connecticutt, a Democrat, campaigned for John McCain in 2008?
Yup - which made me disgusted w/hi as well.
> He hates
> Obama and doesn't trust him. Joe is now opposing Obama's healthcare
> plan in the Senate.
Another reason to dislike him.
Susan
mm
wrote:
>Did you know that Joe Lieberman, the Orthodox Jewish Senator from
>Connecticutt, a Democrat, campaigned for John McCain in 2008? He hates
>Obama and doesn't trust him. Joe is now opposing Obama's healthcare
>plan in the Senate.
What he has said recently is that if the health care proposal includes
the public option, he won't let it come to a vote.
Insurance is to Connecticut as oil is to Texas. Thousands, probably
tens of thousands of Conn. residents make their income directly from
insurance companies and many times more make part of theirs
indirectly. It's not improper for Lieberman to represent the
interests of his constituents, and the public option is the part of
the health care proposal most disliked by the insurance companies.
If he were from a disinterested state, with average citizens on this
issue, his position of an insurance law would be of far more
importance.
I'm reminded of Sen. Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a great friend of Soviet
Jews, who was known as the Senator from Boeing, a major employer in
his state of Washington. Jackson promoted the interests of Boeing and
its employees, even when other American aircraft companies could do as
well or better.
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> I never knew that the Big 0 was so talented. Not even a trace of
> shifting to Israel is visible. Wow! Coulda fooled me. Not!
>
>
> http://jta.org/news/article/2009/11/10/1009099/obama-shifts-into-israels-corner-but-tries-not-to-show-it
To me it looks like this.
Obama shifted _away_ from Israel. Very publicly. What was "understood"
by the Bush administration, was suddenly not understood by Obama. He
made a big issue over demanding a _total_ building freeze in the
"settlements". As if America has any right to make such demands. Or
at least not if wants to be an "honest broker". The Palestinians
jumped on the bandwagon. Netanyahu could not possibly accept such an
ultimatum. So he did what most politicians do. He did A and called
it B. Obama's "shift" seems to be agreeing that A is as good as B.
--
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
Joe Bruno
I'm gonna call the people of Connecticutt and offer them a trade.
We in California will take Joe Lieberman. They can have Dianne
Feinstein.
Let's just exchange Jews.
fla...@verizon.net
On 12-Nov-2009, Joe Bruno <joeb...@usa.com> wrote:
> I'm gonna call the people of Connecticutt and offer them a trade.
> We in California will take Joe Lieberman. They can have Dianne
> Feinstein.
> Let's just exchange Jews.
Good luck w/that - I don't think California wants him.
Susan
Joe Bruno
> On 12-Nov-2009, Joe Bruno <joebr...@usa.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm gonna call the people of Connecticutt and offer them a trade.
> > We in California will take Joe Lieberman. They can have Dianne
> > Feinstein.
> > Let's just exchange Jews.
>
> Good luck w/that - I don't think California wants him.
>
> Susan
All the Californians I know personally would love it. They're all
Republicans like me.
Since this healthcare business started, Joe has become a hero in
Southern California.
The man has the guts to stand up for his principles and they're the
same principles as ours.
Micha Berger
> Obama shifted _away_ from Israel. Very publicly. What was "understood"
> by the Bush administration, was suddenly not understood by Obama. He
> made a big issue over demanding a _total_ building freeze in the
He tied Abbas's hands, which is probably the real cause of Abbas's talk
about quitting.
Obama made building freeze an issue, so there was no way Abbas can
demand less. But then Obama caved -- but Abbas can't, his people won't
let him be that compromising. And so now Abbas is forced to insist on a
procondition that even Obama realized wasn't going to happen. And his
ability to negotiate had ended. (Not that I think Abbas was an honest
negotiating partner, but that's a different topic.)
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Time flies...
mi...@aishdas.org ... but you're the pilot.
http://www.aishdas.org - R' Zelig Pliskin
Fax: (270) 514-1507
fla...@verizon.net
On 12-Nov-2009, Joe Bruno <joeb...@usa.com> wrote:
> On Nov 12, 7:18�am, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
> > On 12-Nov-2009, Joe Bruno <joebr...@usa.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm gonna call the people of Connecticutt and offer them a trade.
> > > We in California will take Joe Lieberman. They can have Dianne
> > > Feinstein.
> > > Let's just exchange Jews.
> >
> > Good luck w/that - I don't think California wants him.
> >
> > Susan
>
> All the Californians I know personally would love it.
And all the ones I know would be furous,
Go figure!
> They're all
> Republicans like me.
Well, that explains it.
> Since this healthcare business started, Joe has become a hero in
> Southern California.
> The man has the guts to stand up for his principles and they're the
> same principles as ours.
Which "ours"??
Susan
mm
wrote:
>On Nov 11, 7:47 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
You're missing the point. I never said that no Jew hates any other
person. Your extreme examples of hitlr or arfat or ibbbydibby don't
imply that Lieberman hates someone who is nothing like those three.
Read again what I actually wrote and you should see that it's not
nonsense.
>> > and doesn't trust him.
>>
>> I doubt you have any valid basis to say he doesn't trust him. I say
>> "valid" because I see people come up with all sorts of non-logical
>> conclusions from combinations of facts, allegations, and suspicions.
>
>It's my opinion, obviously.I can't read Joe Lieberman's mind and
>neither can you.
No, it's not obvious. If you wanted it to appear as your opinion, you
should have said so.
That's why the increase in opinion writing that the internet has
brought has also brought us so many useful acronyms. You could have
said: IMO, in my opinion; imho, in my humble opinion; imnsho, in my
not so humble opinjion; iiuc, if I understand correctly; afaik, as far
as I know; and others. These arose because people wanted their
writing to be honest. They distinguished their opinions from facts.
If you haven't noticed this yet, now you should, and you should do the
same thing.
Instead you made it sound like a fact, based on evidence. I'm sure
Rush Limbaugh has said on his radio show that he doesn't trust various
public figures. I've heard at least one radio host say that one
person or another can't be trusted. Someone who doesn't Joe Lieberman
well might believe your words were based on something you heard,
instead of supposition.
>> Lieberman's a bigb boy and he's been in politics a long time. He
>> knows the difference between a statement not subject to conditions and
>> puffing.
>
>....which means exactly what?????
Politicians especially and people in general often make incomplete
statements. If only because a complete statement would mean they have
to talk for an hour every time they say something, but for other
reasons also including quite often than that because they want to say
something pleasing to the listener. A mild example is, "Yes, I'll be
at your party." Even though the person doesn't say it, that comes
with all kinds of conditions. If I'm not sick, if I don't have to go
out of town, if I don't go out of town even though I don't absolutely
have to, if we're still talking, if my car is working and not
reposessed.
When a poltician says something, it also usually, almost always, has
unspoken conditions.*** As an experienced politician, who doesn't
just read the news an hour a day, but who spends 40 hours or more a
week with other politicians or dealing with what they do, Lieberman
knows all about unspoken conditions. He knows that statements not
subject to any unspoken conditions are very rare and that strong
statements with no conditions noted are usually puffing. Like a used
car salesman would make. "This car runs like a dream. It's in great
condition, will last you another ten years. Don't worry about
breakdowns. That's not a problem" Those statements are either
meaningless or he doesn't know they are true, but their use is not
considered fraud in an American court. They are "puffing".
When Lieberman listens to politicians talk, he knows the difference
between unconditional promises and puffing. Almost everyone in DC
puffs and there's no reason to think Lieberman distrusts Obama for
doing the same thing, much less that he hates him.
That's exactly what I meant.
***That's why when the first George Bush said he wouldnt' raise taxes,
he wasn't in trouble, but then he said it absolutely, something like:
They will beg and they will ask over and over, and they will give
reasons and they will this and that and I will say to them, Read my
lips, No new taxes. If he had only said he wouldn't raise taxes,
even Rep. and Ind. voters would have known that was a statement that
coudln't be relied on, but he made the statement so strong that they
either did rely on it or they thought it was an honest to gosh
promise, that he wasn't allowed to break.
>> That you distrust Obama and perhaps hate him and that Lieberman
>> disagrees with him don't imply that Lieberman distrusts or hates him.
>
>How do you know how I feel?
That's a good point. How do you know what Lieberman feels? We have
loads of evidence** how you feel, but you have no evidence that
Lieberman hates Obama, or even that he doesn't trust him, but that
doesn't stop you from giving your speculation and stating it as fact.
**I know how you feel because of what you wrote. The only alternative
is that you do trust Obama even though you assert that Lieberman
doesn't. Is that it? The only think I've suggested here about you
is that you distrust Lieberman. Do you trust him?
But I debated about where the word "perhaps" should go so let me move
it: That you perhaps distrust Obama and/or hate him and that Lieberman
disagrees with him don't imply that Lieberman distrusts or hates him.
>If I need Psychoanalysis, I'll go see a shrink.
That doesn't follow. Lots of people need something but don't get it.
But I didn't suggest or say anything about psycho anything. Your
sentence about that makes no sense to me.
You need a course in logic and another course in literary or
journalistic honesty.
Abe Kohen
think it would have been bad for the Jews, but rather because I could not
fathom voting for Gore. But I was happy that the people of Connecticut had
enough sense to vote for him as Senator over that far-left Harvard
trustafarian loony Lamont.
Who the people of the great state of Connecticut vote for is their decision,
and Joe is not a Republican, but there are plenty of Republicans who support
agendas that are both pro gay and pro abortion. But remember there are
various degrees of pro gay agenda, as the people of the great states of
California and Maine have shown. Go too "far" from the national consensus
and backlash comes into play.
I wonder if the sole Jewish Republican congressman Eric Cantor will run for
President.
Best,
Abe
"Jay L" <levi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:54cbe561-271a-449d...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
mm
>On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:00:08 +0000 (UTC), Joe Bruno <joeb...@usa.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Did you know that Joe Lieberman, the Orthodox Jewish Senator from
>>Connecticutt, a Democrat, campaigned for John McCain in 2008? He hates
>>Obama and doesn't trust him. Joe is now opposing Obama's healthcare
>>plan in the Senate.
>
>What he has said recently is that if the health care proposal includes
>the public option, he won't let it come to a vote.
>
>Insurance is to Connecticut as oil is to Texas. Thousands, probably
>tens of thousands of Conn. residents make their income directly from
>insurance companies and many times more make part of theirs
>indirectly. It's not improper for Lieberman to represent the
>interests of his constituents, and the public option is the part of
>the health care proposal most disliked by the insurance companies.
BTW, I got to thinking about what I said about Lieberman here, and
wondered how the other Democratic Senator from Conn felt about the
health proposal. HIs name escapes me now. Chris Dodd. A page on
his senate webpage praises it.
So I guess being from Conn doesn't require one to oppose it. OTOH,
we've yet to see how he does if he runs for reelection. It may be a
bad idea with the voters to support it.
mm
<ako...@xenon.stanford.edu> wrote:
>I did NOT vote for Joe in 2000 for Veep. Not because he's Jewish and I
>think it would have been bad for the Jews, but rather because I could not
>fathom voting for Gore. But I was happy that the people of Connecticut had
>enough sense to vote for him as Senator over that far-left Harvard
>trustafarian loony Lamont.
>
>Who the people of the great state of Connecticut vote for is their decision,
>and Joe is not a Republican, but there are plenty of Republicans who support
>agendas that are both pro gay and pro abortion. But remember there are
>various degrees of pro gay agenda, as the people of the great states of
>California and Maine have shown. Go too "far" from the national consensus
>and backlash comes into play.
>
>I wonder if the sole Jewish Republican congressman Eric Cantor will run for
>President.
He has a way to go, and the odds are against it for any specific
person.
I've heard him and he sounds quite a bit like the harsh Republicans
who turn me off. Certainly I havent' heard him be as harsh as some,
but if the election were now, it would be hard for me to vote for him
for President. And like you, I guess I think it would be bad for the
Jews for a Jew to be president and do the kind of Repubican, Democrats
won't like it, will really dislike it, things that he would probably
do.
It was gratifying to see Joe Lieberman get more votes for
vice-president than anyone ever had before, more than Dick Cheney too.
At least 50% of the voters would probably be willing to vote for a Jew
for president too. (Although maybe not the same 50% who would vote
for a Republican. Maybe that would be another 30 or 40 percent for a
total of 80 or 90 percent who would vote for a Jew. Probalby 80
percent, because even though the vp is a heart beat away, most
presidents don't die in office so it's not the same thing as voting
for a Jew for pres.
>Best,
>Abe
Susan S
<joeb...@usa.com>:
>On Nov 12, 7:18 am, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
>> On 12-Nov-2009, Joe Bruno <joebr...@usa.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm gonna call the people of Connecticutt and offer them a trade.
>> > We in California will take Joe Lieberman. They can have Dianne
>> > Feinstein.
>> > Let's just exchange Jews.
>>
>> Good luck w/that - I don't think California wants him.
>>
>> Susan
>
>All the Californians I know personally would love it. They're all
>Republicans like me.
I'll match your Republicans with my Democrats. My Californians are much
happier with our elected Jews, especially Barbara Boxer.
>Since this healthcare business started, Joe has become a hero in
>Southern California.
Not to anyone I know. We think he is a sell-out loser who won't be able
to get elected dog catcher in the future. My Connecticut relatives feel
the same way.
>The man has the guts to stand up for his principles and they're the
>same principles as ours.
Susan Silberstein
"These are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others.
DoD
>
> > All the Californians I know personally would love it.
>
> And all the ones I know would be furous,
> Go figure!
I would hate it if you put a California politician in the heartland...
Why would we want a dump like California here in the hearland? Why
would we want racist jerks like Boxer here? Keep that crap on the
coasts..
Thank you very much...
David
Susan S
<danski...@gmail.com>:
It must be so beautiful everywhere in your state/country compared to our
awful dump. Perhaps you would care to provide evidence of the racism of
our jerk? Lovely language, maybe I'll remember it the next time I take
the very short ride from my house to the ugly coast. You've seen where I
live if you've ever watched any U.S. TV show that pretends it is made in
Miami (except for "Burn Notice"). Unless the show has a long shot
(usually from a helicopter) of Miami, the beach-side, beach street, and
most of the location stuff is done in my city.
Susan Silberstein