uk.religion.jewish about to be deleted if no ojbections!!!!
mm
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
FAST TRACK ANNOUNCEMENT uk.religion.jewish-remove
=======================
In the procedures established for maintaining the uk.* hierarchy
<http://www.usenet.org.uk/guidelines.html> there are provisions, where
there is a consensus and the proposal is straightforward and
non-controversial, to proceed by the "fast-track" method, so as to
avoid
the necessity for holding a full vote.
I have now received a request to fast-track the following proposal:
delete moderated newsgroup uk.religion.jewish
This proposal will be activated no earlier than five days from the
posting
of this notice (i.e. not before November 27th), unless there are
objections (of which six or more, or any one which seems to the
Committee
to be well founded, shall suffice to halt the process).
Objections should be emailed directly to Control at
<con...@usenet.org.uk>.
Objections will be resolved by the committee (comm...@usenet.org.uk)
============================================================================
Newsgroup line:
uk.religion.jewish Discussion of the jewish faith (Moderated)
RATIONALE delete moderated newsgroup uk.religion.jewish
It has long been custom within uk.* to check for groups that are not
being used and then to remove them. By doing this we keep the number
of
dead groups down increasing the chances that someone stumbling across
a
group will find it useful.
An analysis of the posts since 1st July 2009 shows no posts to the
group. I have tried to post to the group asking if there is any
interest in the group, the article was neither approved not returned
to
me by the moderators. An attempt to contact the moderators using the
request address bounced since the domain was non-existant. I have
therefore concluded that this group is dead.
Whilst I have proposed this as a removal should the response to this
show that there is demand and that it is only the lack of a
functioning
moderator that is causing the issue I will happily withdraw this
whilst
other solutions are discussed,
CHARTER uk.religion.jewish-remove
This newsgroup is intended as a general discussion area for UK Jews,
and
as an information resource about Judaism in the UK.
Welcome
Non-jews are welcome to join us to ask bona-fide questions, and to
discover information about Judaism. Please read the entire charter
BEFORE
posting.
Language
All postings should be in English. Where Hebrew, Yiddish, Ladino or
Aramaic words or phrases are used these should be translated. Eg:-
Brit
Milah [circumcision].
Shabbat Observance
Shabbat [the Jewish sabbath] begins 18 minutes before local sunset on
friday and ends after darkness on saturday. Please do not post within
these times. The saving of life is exempt from this restriction.
Discussion topics
On-topic discussions include:
* Discussions regarding judaism from a UK perspective.
* Announcements of specific interest to UK Jews.
* Announcement of Jewish and Interfaith events.
* General chatter and schmoozing by UK Jews.
* Providing information about Judaism to any interested parties.
Prohibited postings
The following are considered to be off-topic and are NOT permitted.
* Crosspostings other than announcements of bona-fide interfaith
events which may be crossposted to all uk.religion newsgroups.
* Attacks against Judaism or Jewish practices. Note that this
restriction is not intended to inhibit valid debate within a
Jewish
context.
* Missionary postings and proselyting of any kind.
* Any posting by, or about, so-called 'jews for jesus', 'messianic
jews' and similar groups who are actually christian and should use
alt.messianic or uk.religion.christian.
* Postings denying the holocaust.
* Any material intended to be offensive to Jews including
antisemitic
material.
* Advertising in general except for SHORT announcements of special
interest to UK Jews.
* Flames and ad-hominem attacks of any kind.
* Binary postings of any kind including any postings which are not
readable in plain language English.
Information
A FAQ will be regularly posted which will contain information about
where
to find Jewish resources on the net.
Moderation submission address
uk.religion.jewish is moderated by a robo-moderator which
automatically
approves postings from known users. Crossposted messages and messages
from unknown users are forwarded to a human moderator.
To reach the human moderator directly, use the email address
uk-religion-j...@usenet.org.uk
END CHARTER
Proponent:
Graham Drabble <usen...@drabble.me.uk>
- --
Chris Croughton
---------------------------------------------------------------
Control
Voice/Fax: +44 1296 331055 Email:
con...@usenet.org.uk
Snail: 155 Long Meadow, Aylesbury, Bucks HP21 7EB
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--
Meir
"The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
mm
<NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>As little as only 3 days left to stop this!
Note this part of the previous post:
First, let me start off by saying that I just learned that in the last
two weeks there has been an RFD and two days ago a requrest to fast
track the deletion of the entire newsgroup uk.religion.jewish.
I would not like to see that happen.
The request to fast track may be authorized as early as November 27!!!
"This proposal will be activated no earlier than five days from the
posting of this notice (i.e. not before November 27th), unless there
are objections (of which six or more, or any one which seems to the
Committee to be well founded, shall suffice to halt the process).
Objections should be emailed directly to Control at
<con...@usenet.org.uk>.
Objections will be resolved by the committee
(comm...@usenet.org.uk)"
------------------
Also note that this may well only refer to stoping the fast track
process. Two weeks ago there was a Request for Discussion, which
received no discussion. It had no other address, so plainly
discussion should go on there.
We also need the moderators to approve or reject posts that are there.
I don't remember who the moderators were. But someone should contact
them, or find new ones.
We also need 6 people to stop the fast track process by emailing
directly to Control at <con...@usenet.org.uk> , to give us time to
find the moderators. This seems to be their address, ukrj-moderators
<ukrj...@netunix.co.uk>
We could also start some threads there, which is the whole point.
I've been looking periodcially, hoping to find posts, but the only
ones seem to have bypased moderation.
There are plenty of British topics these days, jfs, etc.
We should also promote Usenet in general, since I'm sure that a large
percentage of people have never heard of it, even though it is a far
better forum for discussion than mailing list, weblists, chatting,
texting, or ... tweeting.
Fiona Abrahami
"mm" <mm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote
> mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>As little as only 3 days left to stop this!
>
> Note this part of the previous post:
>
> First, let me start off by saying that I just learned that in the last
> two weeks there has been an RFD and two days ago a requrest to fast
> track the deletion of the entire newsgroup uk.religion.jewish.
>
> I would not like to see that happen.
No one posts there, so why save it?
Fiona
mm
In case we are able to start using it again.
>
>Fiona
Fiona Abrahami
"mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote
> "Fiona Abrahami" <fiona@NO_SPAM.intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>"mm" <mm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote
>>> mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>As little as only 3 days left to stop this!
>>>
>>> Note this part of the previous post:
>>>
>>> First, let me start off by saying that I just learned that in the last
>>> two weeks there has been an RFD and two days ago a requrest to fast
>>> track the deletion of the entire newsgroup uk.religion.jewish.
>>>
>>> I would not like to see that happen.
>>
>>No one posts there, so why save it?
>
> In case we are able to start using it again.
But why would you want to?
Fiona
mm
<fiona@NO_SPAM.intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
One reason, if the moderaters here go off the deep end again.
lee
them?
mos...@mm.huji.ac.il
> I've never heard of it, does it allow N.R. type posts, cos I'd miss
> them?
From what I see in their Charter, such posts should be permissable.
--
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
lee
sheldonlg
Hey guys, not that *I* was NOT the one who said that. :-)
Henry Goodman
found)
--
Henry Goodman
henry dot goodman at virgin dot net
"mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:q38mg5p2n2e6qbrn7...@4ax.com...
lee
offering to moderate though as I'm too irresponsible, plus I'd be too
liberal
mm
<henry....@virgin.net> wrote:
>I have posted an objection (and offered to moderate if nobody else can be
>found)
Wonderful. So have I, and I got a friend to object also. Now we
only need three more people from here to object to the fast tracking
and the deletion of uk.religion.jewish.
> Objections should be emailed directly to Control at
> <con...@usenet.org.uk>.
>
> FAST TRACK ANNOUNCEMENT uk.religion.jewish-remove
> =======================
>
> In the procedures established for maintaining the uk.* hierarchy
> <http://www.usenet.org.uk/guidelines.html> there are provisions, where
> there is a consensus and the proposal is straightforward and
> non-controversial, to proceed by the "fast-track" method, so as to
> avoid
> the necessity for holding a full vote.
>
> I have now received a request to fast-track the following proposal:
>
> delete moderated newsgroup uk.religion.jewish
>
> This proposal will be activated no earlier than five days from the
> posting
> of this notice (i.e. not before November 27th), unless there are
> objections (of which six or more, or any one which seems to the
> Committee
> to be well founded, shall suffice to halt the process).
>
> Objections should be emailed directly to Control at
> <con...@usenet.org.uk>.
>
> Objections will be resolved by the committee (comm...@usenet.org.uk)
lee
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:34:23 +0000 (UTC), "Henry Goodman"
>
> >I have posted an objection (and offered to moderate if nobody else can be
> >found)
>
> Wonderful. So have I, and I got a friend to object also. Now we
> only need three more people from here to object to the fast tracking
> and the deletion of uk.religion.jewish.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Objections should be emailed directly to Control at
>
> > FAST TRACK ANNOUNCEMENT uk.religion.jewish-remove
> > =======================
>
> > In the procedures established for maintaining the uk.* hierarchy
> > <http://www.usenet.org.uk/guidelines.html> there are provisions, where
> > there is a consensus and the proposal is straightforward and
> > non-controversial, to proceed by the "fast-track" method, so as to
> > avoid
> > the necessity for holding a full vote.
>
> > I have now received a request to fast-track the following proposal:
>
> > delete moderated newsgroup uk.religion.jewish
>
> > This proposal will be activated no earlier than five days from the
> > posting
> > of this notice (i.e. not before November 27th), unless there are
> > objections (of which six or more, or any one which seems to the
> > Committee
> > to be well founded, shall suffice to halt the process).
>
> > Objections should be emailed directly to Control at
>
> > Objections will be resolved by the committee (commit...@usenet.org.uk)
>
> --
>
> Meir
>
> "The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
how do you object?
fla...@verizon.net
On 25-Nov-2009, mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:34:23 +0000 (UTC), "Henry Goodman"
> <henry....@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> >I have posted an objection (and offered to moderate if nobody else can be
> >
> >found)
>
> Wonderful. So have I, and I got a friend to object also. Now we
> only need three more people from here to object to the fast tracking
> and the deletion of uk.religion.jewish.
>
> > Objections should be emailed directly to Control at
> > <con...@usenet.org.uk>.
I wrote and asked for a reason, and got none.
I wanted to be fair to them.
I'll merely send an objection, now.
Susan
sheldonlg
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:34:23 +0000 (UTC), "Henry Goodman"
> <henry....@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>> I have posted an objection (and offered to moderate if nobody else can be
>> found)
>
> Wonderful. So have I, and I got a friend to object also. Now we
> only need three more people from here to object to the fast tracking
> and the deletion of uk.religion.jewish.
If no one has posted there since 2005, why bother?
lee
I might want to post something there tomorrow
Henry Goodman
news:1didnXnN2K27qJDW...@giganews.com...
I suspect something happened to the moderator?
mm
wrote:
Just send an email directly to Control at <con...@usenet.org.uk>
and say you ojbect to Fast Track and to removing the group.
or maybe con...@usenet.org.uk . I'm still not sure of what
difference the <> make.
It might help to slip into the text that you live in England. I'm
afraid even though he said 6 emails and didnt' say they had to be from
the UK, maybe he was just assuming they'd all be from the UK and
wouldn't want to count those that arent'. And some email adresses are
plainly not.
Even though I posted there for years when I lived in Baltimore and
there were others from outsid the UK also.
And I don't think you would be too liberal to be a moderator. Not at
all.
P&M, because there's not much time left to cancel fast track.
c...@nospam.netunix.com
> >
> > If no one has posted there since 2005, why bother?
>
> I suspect something happened to the moderator?
The moderators gave up because there were no users.
Micha Berger
> Just send an email directly to Control at <con...@usenet.org.uk>
> and say you ojbect to Fast Track and to removing the group.
>
> or maybe con...@usenet.org.uk . I'm still not sure of what
> difference the <> make.
None.
A valid email address can be in any of these forms:
mi...@aishdas.org
<mi...@aishdas.org>
mi...@aishdas.org (Micha Berger)
"Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org>
And in the latter two forms, the human readable name is optional.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger A person must be very patient
mi...@aishdas.org even with himself.
http://www.aishdas.org - attributed to R' Nachman of Breslov
Fax: (270) 514-1507
Henry Goodman
news:hejnr5$vrk$1...@news.albasani.net...
I have just examined the last posts in uk.religion.jewish which date from
2004 (apart from posts about deleting the group). In July 2004 there were 65
posts plus 5 more on the first 2 days of August. That sounds to me like a
viable level of traffic. Then one in September which is off-topic from
Canada, it probably got hacked on bypassing moderation. This sudden stoppage
sounds to me more like moderation stopping than users stopping.
Fiona Abrahami
"Henry Goodman" <henry....@virgin.net> wrote
> <c...@NOSPAM.netunix.com> wrote
>> Henry Goodman <henry....@virgin.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > If no one has posted there since 2005, why bother?
>>>
>>> I suspect something happened to the moderator?
>>
>> The moderators gave up because there were no users.
>
> I have just examined the last posts in uk.religion.jewish which date from
> 2004 (apart from posts about deleting the group). In July 2004 there were
> 65 posts plus 5 more on the first 2 days of August. That sounds to me like
> a viable level of traffic. Then one in September which is off-topic from
> Canada, it probably got hacked on bypassing moderation. This sudden
> stoppage sounds to me more like moderation stopping than users stopping.
Like many low volume lists and newsgroups it had occasional flurries of
life, but mostly it was dormant. Believe me it is not worth saving. Even if
it is saved, there will be trickles of traffic for a month or so, then it'll
go dormant again once the novelty wears off. Give it up. There is no minyan,
they've all started davening at other shuls.
Fiona
Art Werschulz
mi...@aishdas.org (Micha Berger) writes:
> A valid email address can be in any of these forms:
> mi...@aishdas.org
> <mi...@aishdas.org>
> mi...@aishdas.org (Micha Berger)
> "Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org>
Even stranger things are allowable. The full truth can be found in RFC 822,
(available at http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc0822.txt).
One example from same:
<quote>
Wilt . (the Stilt) Chamb...@NBA.US
The "(the Stilt)" is a comment, which is NOT included in the destination
mailbox address handed to the originating system's mailer. The
local-part of the address is the string "Wilt.Chamberlain", with NO
space between the first and second words.
</quote>
--
Art Werschulz (agw STRUDEL comcast.net)
.... insert clever quote here ...
Abe Kohen
"Art Werschulz" <a...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:m28wdta...@comcast.net...
> Hi.
>
> mi...@aishdas.org (Micha Berger) writes:
>
>> A valid email address can be in any of these forms:
>> mi...@aishdas.org
>> <mi...@aishdas.org>
>> mi...@aishdas.org (Micha Berger)
>> "Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org>
>
> Even stranger things are allowable. The full truth can be found in RFC
> 822,
> (available at http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc0822.txt).
> One example from same:
> <quote>
> Wilt . (the Stilt) Chamb...@NBA.US
> The "(the Stilt)" is a comment, which is NOT included in the destination
> mailbox address handed to the originating system's mailer. The
> local-part of the address is the string "Wilt.Chamberlain", with NO
> space between the first and second words.
Thank you Art & Micha. I haven't looked at RFCs in a long time, and thanks
to you I now remember that my first email address was in 1978 in the
"ucbvax.berkeley.edu" domain. I don't remember what my login/userid was,
although back then it might have been "abe" or "abeNNN" where the NNN
represents some number.
Then I looked at RFC 976 (UUCP) and remembered using x!y!z!abe notation at a
startup in 1985. Of course we had to escape the ! so it ended up something
like x\!y\!z\!abe, but I think it was a mixed notation including both @ and
!, as we had to specify the path the uucp would follow, IIRC, to
stanford.edu.
Happy Thanksgiving,
Abe
Micha Berger
> Then I looked at RFC 976 (UUCP) and remembered using x!y!z!abe notation at a
> startup in 1985. Of course we had to escape the ! so it ended up something
> like x\!y\!z\!abe, but I think it was a mixed notation including both @ and
> !, as we had to specify the path the uucp would follow, IIRC, to
> stanford.edu.
Nah, we just had the routes. The whole point of DNS and the domain hierarchy
was to get rid of the need for humans to route email.
In 1985, my email was {philabs|cucard|pegasus|rocky2}!aecom!berger
(meaning, use any of philabs, cucard, pegasus or rocky2 (whichever you
knew a route to, to forward to aecom (Albert Einstein College of Medicine,
which handled all of YU) to get to user "berger". Better than the years
I was "mberger" -- went through college with the nickname "'amburger".
Not a dot in sight (in site?).
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger None of us will leave this place alive.
mi...@aishdas.org All that is left to us is
http://www.aishdas.org to be as human as possible while we are here.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Anonymous MD, while a Nazi prisoner
Abe Kohen
"Micha Berger" <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote in message
news:hen6sl$6f8$1...@harrier.steinthal.us...
> Abe Kohen <ako...@xenon.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> Then I looked at RFC 976 (UUCP) and remembered using x!y!z!abe notation
>> at a
>> startup in 1985. Of course we had to escape the ! so it ended up
>> something
>> like x\!y\!z\!abe, but I think it was a mixed notation including both @
>> and
>> !, as we had to specify the path the uucp would follow, IIRC, to
>> stanford.edu.
>
> Nah, we just had the routes. The whole point of DNS and the domain
> hierarchy
> was to get rid of the need for humans to route email.
>
> In 1985, my email was {philabs|cucard|pegasus|rocky2}!aecom!berger
> (meaning, use any of philabs, cucard, pegasus or rocky2 (whichever you
> knew a route to, to forward to aecom (Albert Einstein College of Medicine,
> which handled all of YU) to get to user "berger". Better than the years
> I was "mberger" -- went through college with the nickname "'amburger".
>
> Not a dot in sight (in site?).
I know I had it written down somewehere, but I might have passed on the book
or documentation where I had written down my old uucp style email address to
one of my offspring.
The RFC allows for the mixing of notations.
Happy Thanksgiving,
Abe
maxine in ri
Too liberal is not a bad thing. Balance in all things, I say.
maxine in ri
Henry Goodman
news:OQuPm.17979$GF7....@newsfe07.ams2...
Since the Committee have received objections to the removal of the
moderated newsgroup uk.religion.jewish the Fast Track will not be
implemented. It is suggested that the newsgroup is given around six
months to see whether it can recover.
mm
<henry....@virgin.net> wrote:
>"Fiona Abrahami" <fiona@NO_SPAM.intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:OQuPm.17979$GF7....@newsfe07.ams2...
>>
>> "Henry Goodman" <henry....@virgin.net> wrote
>>> <c...@NOSPAM.netunix.com> wrote
>>>> Henry Goodman <henry....@virgin.net> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If no one has posted there since 2005, why bother?
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect something happened to the moderator?
>>>>
>>>> The moderators gave up because there were no users.
>>>
>>> I have just examined the last posts in uk.religion.jewish which date from
>>> 2004 (apart from posts about deleting the group). In July 2004 there were
>>> 65 posts plus 5 more on the first 2 days of August. That sounds to me
>>> like a viable level of traffic. Then one in September which is off-topic
>>> from Canada, it probably got hacked on bypassing moderation. This sudden
>>> stoppage sounds to me more like moderation stopping than users stopping.
>>
>> Like many low volume lists and newsgroups it had occasional flurries of
>> life, but mostly it was dormant. Believe me it is not worth saving. Even
>> if it is saved, there will be trickles of traffic for a month or so, then
>> it'll go dormant again once the novelty wears off. Give it up. There is no
>> minyan, they've all started davening at other shuls.
>
I wouldn't want to see a shul closed either. I don't know why you
seem so adament. It's no skin off your nose if it remains open.
>>
>> Fiona
>The following announcement was made this evening:
>
>Since the Committee have received objections to the removal of the
>moderated newsgroup uk.religion.jewish the Fast Track will not be
>implemented. It is suggested that the newsgroup is given around six
>months to see whether it can recover.
Yay. That's good. I wrote them asking how to replace the mods.
We also need to promote this in the UK, and everywhere.
Usenet in general should be promoted. It's better than other forums
but fewer and fewer people know about it. That it's not included
with a lot of internet services anymore is not that bad, because there
are free news servers, and internet prices have gone down so even if
one pays for news, most people can afford it. We need a plan to
promote news, not just Jews but everyone who uses it.
(I wonder what those people who spend their time in the organizational
newsgrroups, whose names I forget, think will happen. I would think
they would be first on the line to keep usent from failing.)
lee
On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 07:58:33PM +0000, lee schotness wrote:
> I forgot to mention that I object to the fast tracking as well
I rather gathered that.
Your objection, and that of others, has been noted, and the removal of
the group has been cancelled. Please do promote the use of the group
to
avoid it being seen as 'dead' in the future.
Thanks,
Chris C as Control
Henry Goodman
It looks as though I will be responsible for organising the revival of
uk.religion.jewish.
Anybody else interested, specifically in joining me as moderators and in
spreading the word within the Anglo-Jewish community? The committee have
given us 6 months to prove it is viable