Fedja (Petach Tikva area)
Gershon Lehrer
There is in Petach Tikva (Israel, near Tel Aviv) a neighborhood which
is called Fedja.
Nowadays there are there quite a lot of Ethiopian immigrants but most
habitants of Fedja do have a Middle-Eastern origin.
I heard once that Fedja used to be an Arab Neighborhood before the
Israeli state was founded.
My question is whether a fellow jewishgenner would know more about
Fedja's history.
e.g.:
-How did it get its status it has got today and who were its first
inhabitants since 1948?
-Has someone got a weblink with Fedja's history?
-How did it get the status it has currently, which immigrant groups do
live
there and how did they come there?
-etc
Do you have a link to a website explaining? etc.
Thank you for your wonderful help,
Gershon Lehrer
Antwerp, Belgium
Abe Kohen
"Gershon Lehrer" <gershon...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aaab8369-a463-436c...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> Hello all,
>
> There is in Petach Tikva (Israel, near Tel Aviv) a neighborhood which
> is called Fedja.
> Nowadays there are there quite a lot of Ethiopian immigrants but most
> habitants of Fedja do have a Middle-Eastern origin.
>
> I heard once that Fedja used to be an Arab Neighborhood before the
> Israeli state was founded.
>
> My question is whether a fellow jewishgenner would know more about
jewishgener?
> Fedja's history.
> e.g.:
> -How did it get its status it has got today and who were its first
> inhabitants since 1948?
> -Has someone got a weblink with Fedja's history?
> -How did it get the status it has currently, which immigrant groups do
> live
> there and how did they come there?
My friend from Yemen used to live there as a child.
Happy Hanuka,
Abe
Giorgies E Kepipesiom
>
> My friend from Yemen used to live there as a child.
>
GEK
Abe Kohen
Feh- gimmel (with an apostrophe) - heh.
or
Fay - jimmel - hay.
Nothing Hungarian about it.
Is Hanuka Hungarian?
Happy Hanuka,
Abe
"Giorgies E Kepipesiom" <kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ec1ec8dc-83d4-4ead...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Giorgies E Kepipesiom
> Because I did not correct his spelling.
>
> Feh- gimmel (with an apostrophe) - heh.
>
> or
>
> Fay - jimmel - hay.
>
> Nothing Hungarian about it.
>
> Is Hanuka Hungarian?
>
does not have a 'dj' consonant in it. The Hungarians I hear hocking in
our buildings elevator all day see to have this compound consonant
sound in at least every third word. If Mr Lehrer has misspelled it and
thus misled me, I retract my question. But I will here repeat my usual
question to you: do you want the ox briskets and thigh or not?
GEK
wishing you happy Hannuka, good week, good chodesh.
Abe Kohen
What sounds like a "dj" to you is actually a "gy" in Hungarian.
Tiger, no, Cheetah Woods wanted lots of thigh, and see where that got him.
Happy Hanuka,
Abe
"Giorgies E Kepipesiom" <kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b1d8b40f-f231-4a19...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Fiona Abrahami
"Abe Kohen" <abek...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> Do you think Carl Djerassi is Hungarian? What about Djelfa, Algeria?
>
> What sounds like a "dj" to you is actually a "gy" in Hungarian.
Modern Hebrew's gimmel with an apostrophe in an attempt to represent a hard
J regardless of where the original word is sourced from and would be the
same for an English J, an Arabic J, a Hungarian Gy, a Dj or any other
variation that attempts to render that sound in symbols.
While the generally assumption that a modern Hebrew word with an
apostrophised gimmel (is there such a word?) is from Arabic it is not always
so.
Fiona
Giorgies E Kepipesiom
> Do you think Carl Djerassi is Hungarian?
Yes, I did think he was. Is he not?
What about Djelfa, Algeria?
If there are Hungarians there, then yes, I would think so. There are
Romanians in Beer Sheva. Before they arrived there, it was called Beer
Shemoneh.
>
> What sounds like a "dj" to you is actually a "gy" in Hungarian.
I didn't know that. When I next meet our neighbours in the lift, I
will tell them they are pronouncing it wrong.
We have a rebbelah in our neighbourhood who who is known as "der
Mudjerfudjer Rebbi". So should we be properly referring to him as der
Mugyefugyer?
GEK
Evertjan.
>> My question is whether a fellow jewishgenner would know more about
>
> jewishgener?
>
Jewishgeneric it is jewishgenner.
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
Fiona Abrahami
"Evertjan." <exjxw.ha...@interxnl.net> wrote
> Abe Kohen wrote
>
>>> My question is whether a fellow jewishgenner would know more about
>>
>> jewishgener?
>
> Jewishgeneric it is jewishgenner.
Huh!? What?
Giorgies E Kepipesiom
> Abe Kohen wrote on 13 dec 2009 in soc.culture.jewish.moderated:
>
> >> My question is whether a fellow jewishgenner would know more about
>
> > jewishgener?
>
> Jewishgeneric it is jewishgenner.
No, it is a member of the Jewish Genealogic Society http://www.jewishgen.org/.
May also refer to one who posts or lurks on the usenet group
soc.genealogy.jewish.
GEK
Abe Kohen
Happy Hanuka,
Abe
"Giorgies E Kepipesiom" <kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0e66ee98-b7a3-4b38...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Abe Kohen
"dj." American offspring of Hungarians usually pronounce it "dj" as they
have not developed the ability to pronounce "gy."
As to your MF, that's your business.
Happy Hanuka,
Abe
"Giorgies E Kepipesiom" <kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1fd722de-54a8-4cc4...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
mirjam
Dag Menner
I have never heard any name word or term resembeling this name
FEDJA ,, and of course not related to Petach Tikwa!
mirjam
Israel
Amitai
For two different viewpoints, see:
http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A4%D7%92'%D7%94
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajja
Amitai
> mirjam
> Israel
mirjam
> Neverheless it exists - or did, but written: Fajja
> For two different viewpoints, see:http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A4%D7%92'%D7%94http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajja
>
> Amitai
>
>
>
> > mirjam
>
> - Show quoted text -
Abe already sent me the names of Pertah Tikwa Mikwa`ot , amongst them
this name ,,
thnak you , one can always leran new things
mirjam
Gershon Lehrer
Thank you, that tis what I was looking for.
Though the English version of the article is written by an Arab while
the second version supposedly by an Israeli.
Gershon Lehrer
wrote:
> On Dec 13, 8:59 am, "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivo...@interxnl.net> wrote:
>
> > Abe Kohen wrote on 13 dec 2009 in soc.culture.jewish.moderated:
>
> > >> My question is whether a fellow jewishgenner would know more about
>
> > > jewishgener?
>
> > Jewishgeneric it is jewishgenner.
>
> May also refer to one who posts or lurks on the usenet group
> soc.genealogy.jewish.
>
> GEK
Yes, it refers indeed to someone who is a member of the Jewish
Genealogic Society.
They refuesd my intial posting of the Fedja question. They did refer
me to soc.culture.jewish.moderated (not the soc.culture.jewish as it
is "hijacked by antisemites).
I have to admit that this moderated newsgroup is a fund place to be.
Evertjan.
Abe Kohen
"Evertjan." <exjxw.ha...@interxnl.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9CE17697...@194.109.133.242...
> Amitai wrote on 13 dec 2009 in soc.culture.jewish.moderated:
>
>> On Dec 13, 5:32�pm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
>>> Dag Menner
>>> I have never heard any name word or term resembeling this name
>>> FEDJA ,, and of course not related to Petach Tikwa!
>>>
>> Neverheless it exists - or did, but written: Fajja
>> For two different viewpoints, see:
>> http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A4%D7%92'%D7%94
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajja
>
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?q=32.088344,34.904439&z=17>
Can someone please explain why google maps shows Kiryat David Elazar as
Kiryat David Eliezer?
Happy Hanuka,
Abe
mm
<abek...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Evertjan." <exjxw.ha...@interxnl.net> wrote in message
>news:Xns9CE17697...@194.109.133.242...
>> Amitai wrote on 13 dec 2009 in soc.culture.jewish.moderated:
>>
>>> On Dec 13, 5:32ÿpm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
>>>> Dag Menner
>>>> I have never heard any name word or term resembeling this name
>>>> FEDJA ,, and of course not related to Petach Tikwa!
>>>>
>>> Neverheless it exists - or did, but written: Fajja
>>> For two different viewpoints, see:
>>> http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A4%D7%92'%D7%94
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajja
>>
>> <http://maps.google.com/maps?q=32.088344,34.904439&z=17>
>
>
>Can someone please explain why google maps shows Kiryat David Elazar as
>Kiryat David Eliezer?
A mistake maybe?
Did you read my post about my looking for my mother's parents home
town, Eysheshuk?
First I google mapped Lithuania and just browsed around looking for it
but didn't find it.
Then I came across the Russian spelling, so I tried that. Not Found.
Then I tried Eysheshuk. It replied, "Do you mean Eshyshuk? (or
something like that. I know the y followed the first h.)
So I clicked on "Eshyshuk", and it came back, "Do you mean Eshyshuk
near Miami Beach?", and it gave two links in the left column. I
clicked on the one in Miami Beach and read it and found not a single
reference to any spelling of Eysheshuk or Lithuania, or anything
unusual.
But on the right was a map of part of Lithuania and White Russia with
Eshyshuk in the center.
>Happy Hanuka,
>Abe
>
--
Meir
"The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
Itzhak Schier
> A native Hungarian pronounces it "gy" while a "foreigner" pronounces it
> "dj." American offspring of Hungarians usually pronounce it "dj" as they
> have not developed the ability to pronounce "gy."
>
> As to your MF, that's your business.
>
> Happy Hanuka,
> Abe
>
> On Dec 12, 11:04 pm, "Abe Kohen" <abeko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Do you think Carl Djerassi is Hungarian?
>
> Yes, I did think he was. Is he not?
>
> What about Djelfa, Algeria?
>
> If there are Hungarians there, then yes, I would think so. There are
> Romanians in Beer Sheva. Before they arrived there, it was called Beer
> Shemoneh.
>
>
>
> > What sounds like a "dj" to you is actually a "gy" in Hungarian.
>
> I didn't know that. When I next meet our neighbours in the lift, I
> will tell them they are pronouncing it wrong.
>
> We have a rebbelah in our neighbourhood who who is known as "der
> Mudjerfudjer Rebbi". So should we be properly referring to him as der
> Mugyefugyer?
>
> GEK
Is he the one who has the words "Saygec Arosz, Bacsi" embroidered on
the paroiches which hides the palinka distillation equipment that he
stores in his aron ha"koidesh"?
Harry Weiss
> Because I did not correct his spelling.
> Feh- gimmel (with an apostrophe) - heh.
> or
> Fay - jimmel - hay.
> Nothing Hungarian about it.
> Is Hanuka Hungarian?
Isn't it. I remember my father a"h always singing Szol a Kokoh Mar at
Chanukah parties. And of course when we had relatves over you had to be
tri linugal to understand everything (English, Yiddish and Hungarian) so I
guess yesm, Chanukah is Hungarian :-)
> Happy Hanuka,
> Abe
> "Giorgies E Kepipesiom" <kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ec1ec8dc-83d4-4ead...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 12, 8:18 pm, "Abe Kohen" <abeko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > My friend from Yemen used to live there as a child.
> >
> "Fedja" sounds Hungarian to me. Why do you think that might be?
> GEK
--
Harry J. Weiss
hjw...@panix.com
Abe Kohen
"Harry Weiss" <hjw...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hgo023$qau$3...@reader1.panix.com...
> Abe Kohen <abek...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Because I did not correct his spelling.
>
>> Feh- gimmel (with an apostrophe) - heh.
>
>> or
>
>> Fay - jimmel - hay.
>
>> Nothing Hungarian about it.
>
>> Is Hanuka Hungarian?
>
> Isn't it. I remember my father a"h always singing Szol a Kokoh Mar at
> Chanukah parties. And of course when we had relatves over you had to be
> tri linugal to understand everything (English, Yiddish and Hungarian) so I
> guess yesm, Chanukah is Hungarian :-)
You ain't seen nothing yet. I've been at family gathering where, in addition
to those langauages and Hebrew, my wife would converse with a family member
in Slavic (Czech, Slovak ot Polish) and I would converse with the same
person in Hungarian.
But as Hungarians cannot pronounce Hanuka, I declare that it cannot be
Khungarian.
Best,
Abe
Fiona Abrahami
"Abe Kohen" <abek...@gmail.com> wrote
> But as Hungarians cannot pronounce Hanuka, I declare that it cannot be
> Khungarian.
(This is probably a silly question, but...) Why can't Hungarians pronounce
Hanuka?
Fiona
Amitai
<fiona@NO_SPAM.intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> "Abe Kohen" <abeko...@gmail.com> wrote
Amitai
> Fiona
Harry Weiss
> On Dec 22, 11:39?am, "Fiona Abrahami"
> Amitai
Of course that does not apply to those who spoke Yiddish (either primary
or secondary language)
> > Fiona
Fiona Abrahami
Sorry, I don't get it. What do you mean?
Are you trying to say Russian and Hungarian don't have a Hey sound or a Het
sound, or neither? (The Aitch in Hard is a different sound to the Het in
Hanuka.)
Fiona
Abe Kohen
"Fiona Abrahami" <fiona@NO_SPAM.intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7V6Ym.104135$II.9...@newsfe22.ams2...
Hungarians can say both Hey and Het, only they always reverse it! One of my
aunts in Israel has a grandson called Hen (with a Het); she pronounces it
with a Hey, so it sounds like she is saying Yes.
It's like the Japanese with their reversal of R and L.
Best,
Abe
Amitai
> "Fiona Abrahami" <fiona@NO_SPAM.intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:7V6Ym.104135$II.9...@newsfe22.ams2...
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> "Fiona Abrahami" <fiona@NO_SPAM.intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>> "Abe Kohen" <abeko...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >>> > But as Hungarians cannot pronounce Hanuka, I declare that it cannot be
> >>> > Khungarian.
>
> >>> (This is probably a silly question, but...) Why can't Hungarians
> >>> pronounce Hanuka?
>
> >>For a similar reason Russians also gave a gard time. :-)
>
> > Sorry, I don't get it. What do you mean?
>
> > Are you trying to say Russian and Hungarian don't have a Hey sound or a
> > Het
> > sound, or neither? (The Aitch in Hard is a different sound to the Het in
> > Hanuka.)
>
> Hungarians can say both Hey and Het, only they always reverse it! One of my
> aunts in Israel has a grandson called Hen (with a Het); she pronounces it
> with a Hey, so it sounds like she is saying Yes.
>
> It's like the Japanese with their reversal of R and L.
>
for a "`het". What they lack is "h", for which they substitute "g", as
in Geinrich Geine and Gerbert Goover.
Amitai
> Best,
> Abe- Hide quoted text -
Art Werschulz
Amitai <chr...@techunix.technion.ac.il> writes:
> The Russians have a strong "khaf" that can be used, faute de mieux,
> for a "`het". What they lack is "h", for which they substitute "g", as
> in Geinrich Geine and Gerbert Goover.
ISTR a plot point in "Murder on the Orient Express" (the film) that used
this point. A handkerchief was found with an "H" on it; it turns out
that this was a Russian "N", for "Natshsa" IIRC. Natasha would be
spelled something like "Hatawa", with the "w" standing in for their "sh"
character (which looks a little bit like a "shin") and that "t" being a
small-cap "T".
--
Art Werschulz (agw STRUDEL comcast.net)
.... insert clever quote here ...
Yisroel Markov
Northern Russian does not have a "hey" sound, that's true. However, I
have never met a Russian who couldn't pronounce it - because Ukrainian
does have it and uses it often, so every Russian west of the Urals is
familiar with it. There is no letter for it, so there had to be choice
between their equivalents of "'het" and "gimmel" to transliterate
Heine, Hoover, and such; "gimmel" prevails, but I've seen "'het", too,
especially in pre-revolutionary publications.
In Middle Russian dialects there is a letter "g" but no "g" sound.
Living in Petersburg I could easily tell a recent arrival from Minsk
or Saratov by their use of "hey" in place of the "g".
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Amitai
My father used to say (You can imagine how many years ago!) that
Woodrow Wilson was pronounced Khvoodrov Khvilson. Was he having me
on?
Amitai
> Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Memberwww.reason.com-- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand- Hide quoted text -
mm
So how is the letter "g" pronounced.
Aren't Kagans those who were Kohens who lived (somewhere) in Russia
where there was no letter for H so they used a G, and when they got to
the USA at least, they kept the "g", pronouncing it like an English
hsrd G, although I don't know how it was pronounced in Russia.
>> Living in Petersburg I could easily tell a recent arrival from Minsk
>> or Saratov by their use of "hey" in place of the "g".
>> --
>>
>How do the Russians manage the "w" sound?
>
>My father used to say (You can imagine how many years ago!) that
>Woodrow Wilson was pronounced Khvoodrov Khvilson. Was he having me
>on?
>
>Amitai
>
>> Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Memberwww.reason.com-- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
--
Yisroel Markov
<chr...@techunix.technion.ac.il> said:
>On Dec 24, 12:44 am, Yisroel Markov <ey.mar...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 06:43:12 +0000 (UTC), Amitai
>> <chr0...@techunix.technion.ac.il> said:
[snip]
>> >The Russians have a strong "khaf" that can be used, faute de mieux,
>> >for a "`het". What they lack is "h", for which they substitute "g", as
>> >in Geinrich Geine and Gerbert Goover.
>>
>> Northern Russian does not have a "hey" sound, that's true. However, I
>> have never met a Russian who couldn't pronounce it - because Ukrainian
>> does have it and uses it often, so every Russian west of the Urals is
>> familiar with it. There is no letter for it, so there had to be choice
>> between their equivalents of "'het" and "gimmel" to transliterate
>> Heine, Hoover, and such; "gimmel" prevails, but I've seen "'het", too,
>> especially in pre-revolutionary publications.
>>
>> In Middle Russian dialects there is a letter "g" but no "g" sound.
>> Living in Petersburg I could easily tell a recent arrival from Minsk
>> or Saratov by their use of "hey" in place of the "g".
>> --
>>
>How do the Russians manage the "w" sound?
>
>My father used to say (You can imagine how many years ago!) that
>Woodrow Wilson was pronounced Khvoodrov Khvilson. Was he having me
>on?
The "kh" seems superfluous. This name is alternately spelled "Vudrou
Vilson" or "Uodrou Uilson". Likewise, Watson becomes either Vatson or
Uotson, I've seen both in different translations of the Holmes canon.
The former seems more popular, probably because it reads shorter,
closer to the original.
Check this trailer from the Soviet adaptation of Sherlock Holmes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQgSZXP6qAs
"Elementary, Watson!" is at 1:07.
Unlike the "hey", I had to learn this sound when learning English.
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
Amitai
So now, 80 years later, I learn that my father was exaggerating!
"Watson" was a disappointment: merely "Vatson", but I enjoyed
"Kholms".
Amitai
> Check this trailer from the Soviet adaptation of Sherlock Holmes:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQgSZXP6qAs
> "Elementary, Watson!" is at 1:07.
>
> Unlike the "hey", I had to learn this sound when learning English.
> --
> Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Memberwww.reason.com-- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
Yisroel Markov
<NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> said:
>On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:46:25 +0000 (UTC), Amitai
><chr...@techunix.technion.ac.il> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 24, 12:44 am, Yisroel Markov <ey.mar...@MUNGiname.com> wrote:
>>> Northern Russian does not have a "hey" sound, that's true. However, I
>>> have never met a Russian who couldn't pronounce it - because Ukrainian
>>> does have it and uses it often, so every Russian west of the Urals is
>>> familiar with it. There is no letter for it, so there had to be choice
>>> between their equivalents of "'het" and "gimmel" to transliterate
>>> Heine, Hoover, and such; "gimmel" prevails, but I've seen "'het", too,
>>> especially in pre-revolutionary publications.
>>>
>>> In Middle Russian dialects there is a letter "g" but no "g" sound.
>
>So how is the letter "g" pronounced.
Like "hey" (the fifth letter of the Hebrew alphabet). When at the end
of a word, it's a soft "het".
>Aren't Kagans those who were Kohens who lived (somewhere) in Russia
>where there was no letter for H so they used a G, and when they got to
>the USA at least, they kept the "g", pronouncing it like an English
>hsrd G, although I don't know how it was pronounced in Russia.
As explained above, for a Kahan in Ukraine or Byelorussia the choice
of "g" was natural, just like "J" was the natural choice for "yud"
back in King James' time.
[snip]
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
mm
So did/do any Kagans moving to the US or any English speaking
countries respell their names as Kahan?
It would make sense, since the reason there was a g there in the first
place is that g in Russian was pronounced like the h sound in their
earlier language. So changing back would be for phonetic reasons. It
would just be undoing what their ancestors earlier did only for the
sake of phonetic spelling.
When they move to Israel, do any spell their names with a heh instead
of a gimel?
>
>[snip]