Jewish genetics, Palestinians and those Italian girls
Yussel
European hybrids but there was a lot of fooling around during the
Roman Empire and guess who are closest genetic cousins are?
Palestinians
http://yussel.blogspot.com/2009/12/jewish-genetics-palestinians-and-those.html
j
cindys
-------
And in an effort to pre-empt the inevitable follow-up: This does not
lead to the conclusion that the modern-day Palestinians are Jewish and
are therefore entitled to emigrate to Israel as part of the Right of
Return. Halacha is not based on DNA.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Yussel
Not from me. I just find it interesting.
j
cindys
I know not from you. From another reader who keeps wishing that the
Palestinians could or should be acknowledged as Jewish (by maternal
descent), that they will all abandon Islam in favor of Judaism, and
that it would be in Israel's best interest to acknowledge the
Palestinians as being Jewish.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Steve Goldfarb
>I know not from you. From another reader who keeps wishing that the
>Palestinians could or should be acknowledged as Jewish (by maternal
>descent), that they will all abandon Islam in favor of Judaism, and
>that it would be in Israel's best interest to acknowledge the
>Palestinians as being Jewish.
This is just off the top of my head, but there's actually something
interesting about that notion - telling them OK, if the land is that
important to you, then here's an option: renounce Islam, and we'll offer
some sort of fast-track to Judaism sorta like is done (as I understand it)
with the Ethiopian Jews.
Just a thought...
--s
--
cindys
Right. Except what happens then is they will "renounce Islam" take the
land and then revert to Islam as soon as they have what they want. And
their justification would be that Islam teaches that deception is
acceptable if it can aid in their endeavor to remove the "Zionist
entity" (sic) or something like that.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Yussel
Shmaryahu b. Chanoch
>
> > >I know not from you. From another reader who keeps wishing that the
> > >Palestinians could or should be acknowledged as Jewish (by maternal
> > >descent), that they will all abandon Islam in favor of Judaism, and
> > >that it would be in Israel's best interest to acknowledge the
> > >Palestinians as being Jewish.
>
> > This is just off the top of my head, but there's actually something
> > interesting about that notion - telling them OK, if the land is that
> > important to you, then here's an option: renounce Islam, and we'll offer
> > some sort of fast-track to Judaism sorta like is done (as I understand it)
> > with the Ethiopian Jews.
>
> > Just a thought...
>
> --------------
> Right. Except what happens then is they will "renounce Islam" take the
> land and then revert to Islam as soon as they have what they want. And
> their justification would be that Islam teaches that deception is
> acceptable if it can aid in their endeavor to remove the "Zionist
> entity" (sic) or something like that.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
Under the teachings of the Prophet, just to claim to be a Jew is
death. No Jew can convert as they have Jewish blood (Islam measures
from the male). All Jews must die, even converts to Islam.
mirjam
There was also a DNA research that found that Jews from Russia , had a
closer Genetic kinship to Marokko Jews than to the Russians around
them .
And don`t forget that many Jewish Poles originated in Spain ,,
mirjam ,,
Steve Goldfarb
>Under the teachings of the Prophet, just to claim to be a Jew is
>death. No Jew can convert as they have Jewish blood (Islam measures
>from the male). All Jews must die, even converts to Islam.
Well, if they "switched sides," then we'd protect them from the Muslims,
just as we'd do for any other Jew.
It just sort of separates the two distinct claims of "these refugees have
a right to return" from "these are Muslim lands which must be returned to
Islam." The apologists tend to sign on to the former but pretend the
latter doesn't exist.
--s
--
Shmaryahu b. Chanoch
That was one reason that was suggested why many "Palestinians"
converted to Islam. They loved the land more than religion.
But just think of this: most muslims have a deep dislike of Jews due
to what the Prophet said about how Jews are rats and monkeys and will
be destroyed in the End of Days. Therefore, if word got around that
the Palestinians were Jewish then most of the Islamic world would turn
their back on them.
Plus if European and American leftwingers were to be convinced that
the Palestinians were of Jewish heritage then it would defeat the
arguement that Jews have no right to the land as they are Western and
not Western-Asian.
It does not matter if the Palestinians ever would be given the right
to return. What is important is playing mind games with those who
hate Israel.
Herman Rubin
cindys <cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>On Dec 21, 1:52=A0pm, Yussel <jshur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 21, 1:20=A0pm, cindys <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>> > On Dec 21, 12:30=A0pm, Yussel <jshur...@gmail.com> wrote:> New genetic =
>study shows that most Ashkenazim are Middle Eastern-
....................
>> Not from me. I just find it interesting.
-----
>I know not from you. From another reader who keeps wishing that the
>Palestinians could or should be acknowledged as Jewish (by maternal
>descent), that they will all abandon Islam in favor of Judaism, and
>that it would be in Israel's best interest to acknowledge the
>Palestinians as being Jewish.
>Best regards,
>---Cindy S.
I doubt that the Palestinians would even be able to
abandon Islam in favor of any kind of Judaism.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Abe Kohen
"Yussel" <jshu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:605089ca-891d-44e0...@l2g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
j
-----------------------------------
No one is stopping you from offing them - wholesale or otherwise.
Didn't know YOU subscribe to THAT solution.
Best,
Abe
Lee Ratner
>
I'm 87% Russian Jewish, the rest is Sephardic, but people trying
to guess my ethnicity, without knowing that I'm Jewish, never guess
that most of great-grandparents immigrated from Minsk and Pinsk. Most
of them place my ancestors as coming from the Mediterranean zone,
anywhere from Portugal to Syria. Arabs have mistaken me for an Arab.
There was another Ashkenazi Jewish girl I went to high school with who
looked more Arab than I do.
What I find interesting is that the European DNA in most Ashkenazi
Jews comes from Southern Europe, i.e. that the mixing occurred
thousands of years ago during Antiquity rather than during the Middle
Ages.
mm
<cst...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>tje "Zionist
>entity" (sic)
Sic? Do they capitalize "Zionist"?
--
Meir
"The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
General Schvantzkoph
We have the example of Spanish Jews to see why that won't work. During
the Inquisition many Jews outwardly converted while remaining Jewish in
secret. That wasn't a short term deal either, there are still secret Jews
today. About 10 years ago I met a guy who's family had lived in the
Southwest since the time of the conquistadors. They had recently figured
out that they were Jewish. In his family there were customs like lighting
candles in the basement on Friday night. Nobody knew they were lighting
Shabbos candles, it was just something that they had always done. 500
years ago his ancestors knew they were celebrating Shabbos in secret, but
over time the reasons were forgotten.
Jews don't convert people at the point of a sword, we've been victims of
that too many times ourselves. The Ethiopian Jews are an entirely
different case, they think of themselves as Jews and always have. The
only reason for any kind of conversion is to satisfy the doubts of other
people.
mirjam
> What I find interesting is that the European DNA in most Ashkenazi
> Jews comes from Southern Europe, i.e. that the mixing occurred
> thousands of years ago during Antiquity rather than during the Middle
> Ages.
When you read non Jewish books describing Jews , they usually speak
about darker complextions [light olive colored skins]
mirjam
mirjam
During the British Mandate and even later there were cases of
marriages between Jewish women and Arab men.
When the man was a Muslim , usually the woman converted to Islam , and
the kids were brought up as muslims.
There were some tragic cases , of the children of those marriages
having Id problems and thus they became more extreme in their
attidtudes.
mirjam
Amitai
conductor, Daniel Oren, one of the finest conductors of opera now
active. AFAIK, he is the only one who conducts wearing a kippa.
Amitai
> mirjam
Lee Ratner
Well yes but this would be true even if Ashkenazi Jews were
completely Middle Eastern rather than Middle Eastern-Southern European
hybreds.
fla...@verizon.net
I didn't realize this was new.
Nor is all the false blather this sort of thing raises
(which as nothing to actually do with your post,
but it did come to mind....).
Susan
Dennis
It wouldn't be surprising to find that the closest genetic cousins
are people in that general area. However, would that also include present-
day Syrians, Iraqis, and non-Palestinian Jordanians? I can see how
Egyptians and Saudi Arabians might be a bit different.
There's been a lot of mixing in the Fertile Crescent area, both
before and since the Diaspora and subsequent dispersals.
Dennis
Yisroel Markov
<lbra...@gmail.com> said:
[snip]
> What I find interesting is that the European DNA in most Ashkenazi
>Jews comes from Southern Europe, i.e. that the mixing occurred
>thousands of years ago during Antiquity rather than during the Middle
>Ages.
The way I see it, enterprising Jewish traders have crossed the Alps
northward from Italy once the local Vandals, Hunns et al were
sufficiently pacified to make decent trading partners. Of those who
eventually settled there, some imported families or brides from Italy,
while some converted local women.
Do the markers on that European DNA force a dating to thousands of
years ago, rather than early Middle Ages?
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
Yussel
> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 03:14:57 +0000 (UTC), Lee Ratner
> <lbrat...@gmail.com> said:
>
> [snip]
>
> > What I find interesting is that the European DNA in most Ashkenazi
> >Jews comes from Southern Europe, i.e. that the mixing occurred
> >thousands of years ago during Antiquity rather than during the Middle
> >Ages.
>
> The way I see it, enterprising Jewish traders have crossed the Alps
> northward from Italy once the local Vandals, Hunns et al were
> sufficiently pacified to make decent trading partners. Of those who
> eventually settled there, some imported families or brides from Italy,
> while some converted local women.
>
> Do the markers on that European DNA force a dating to thousands of
> years ago, rather than early Middle Ages?
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
They appear to, yes.
j
Yussel
> On 21-Dec-2009, Yussel <jshur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > New genetic study shows that most Ashkenazim are Middle Eastern-
> > European hybrids but there was a lot of fooling around during the
> > Roman Empire and guess who are closest genetic cousins are?
>
> > Palestinians
>
>
> I didn't realize this was new.
> Nor is all the false blather this sort of thing raises
> (which as nothing to actually do with your post,
> but it did come to mind....).
>
> Susan
Yes, new study being published this month in a British journal. It
supports earlier studies but the part about southern Europe and
Palestinians is new. They don't incidentally worry about whether the
mixing was Jewish women getting raped or Jewish men falling for those
Roman girls. It is likely, I think, to be more of the latter.
j