Chinese and Korean food, unlike Japanese, do not make it on Zagat Survey
RichAsianKid
You can join the site if you want. If you read the actual book (I don't
have it, but browsed thru it), in most North American cities, there is
invariably one or two Japanese restaurants that make it on the top of
top 10 or 15 --- even in places that you don't see many Japanese.
Other ones include that are "top choices in a city" include restaurants
that serve Northern Italian, French, Continental, Seafood, and yes,
even Thai cuisine. Japanese dominate the rankings in Los Angeles as a
single group, for instance if I remember correctly and are more common
than Thai. But there are NO Chinese restaurants even in Los Angeles
that made it!! You will see "Asian" Fusion here and there or Indian, or
Thai, but NO Chinese!!!
And this CANNOT be blamed on bias obviously - Chinese restaurants
(and/or food) are INCREDIBLY popular, like McDonalds, like Pizza,
especially amongst fresh off the boat or local Chinese, 3rd world or
1.5 world. But it's like....all quantity, no quality. Yes yes I know
there are many factors, and you can certainly find top Chinese
restaurants *within* the Chinese category, but that's not the point.
When referenced across other cuisines, and yes I could have missed some
in some cities, there are more Japanese top selections than Chinese,
EVEN though Chinese food/restaurants is way more popular. It's like
when there are 150 girls and say 50 boys competing in a Math Olympiad
and the top 10 are all boys.
But bottom line: Chinese food (and Korean food)/restaurants when
compared to Japanese and others (e.g. Northern Italian, French) are not
top of the top in consensus and public opinion according to the survey.
Not that there aren't any (I didn't see one, but as I said, I could
have missed it) but the 'critical mass' certainly isn't there.
And this is consistent with most of our experiences: most Chinese
restaurants really are operated by recent poor dirty third world
immigrants and serve low class food that are replete with health
hazards, dish out poor service, and many are like porn outlets as I've
said before: cheap, quick and dirty, best enjoyed private and takeout,
decent variety, and outlets are found in poor sleazy neighborhoods.
Related reading of RichAsianKid's opinion on this subject.
http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.asian.american/browse_frm/thread/285b2163f7d93189/e49a59c1e707d6a0?lnk=st&q=chinese+food+superior&rnum=3&hl=en#e49a59c1e707d6a0
abia...@my-deja.com
10 or 15 does not guarantee food is top 10 or 15. Anyway, lets see
number of cooking books in international cuisines category in
amazon.com, here's top 3:
1. Italian (1142)
2. French (913)
3. Chinese (799)
and Indian (387), Japanese (290). That does tell us something, right?
We eat delicious food but RAK eats expensive food because he could not
tell if food is delicious, therefore, he can only judge it by pricing.
The man has no taste!
RichAsianKid
abia...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Zagat ranks the restaurants by food, decor, and service, therefore, top
> 10 or 15 does not guarantee food is top 10 or 15. Anyway, lets see
> number of cooking books in international cuisines category in
> amazon.com, here's top 3:
>
> 1. Italian (1142)
> 2. French (913)
> 3. Chinese (799)
>
> and Indian (387), Japanese (290). That does tell us something, right?
> We eat delicious food but RAK eats expensive food because he could not
> tell if food is delicious, therefore, he can only judge it by pricing.
> The man has no taste!
>
So that's again more proof that Japanese is higher. And that's why I've
standardized the Zagat survey with popularity with the Math Olympiad
example. For instance, who wants Russian food? Who wants Czech food?
Very few people. Therefore, it's not surprising that Zagat survey does
not show Russian restaurants or Czech restaurants as tops.
BUT there *are* tons and tons of Chinese restaurants, and there is no
denying that Chinese food is way way MORE popular than Japanese food.
BUT...when it comes to a fine dining experience, Chinese food sucks
ass. In some cases literally.
Check out my blog again for Chinese delicacies. Make sure you click on
the pics.
http://richasiankid.blogspot.com/
abia...@my-deja.com
cuisine lacks variety, less interesting.
North@oyama.bc.ca Vernon North
richas...@hotmail.com says...
>
> But bottom line: Chinese food (and Korean food)/restaurants when
> compared to Japanese and others (e.g. Northern Italian, French) are not
> top of the top in consensus and public opinion according to the survey.
> And this is consistent with most of our experiences: most Chinese
> restaurants really are operated by recent poor dirty third world
> immigrants and serve low class food that are replete with health
> hazards, dish out poor service, and many are like porn outlets as I've
> said before: cheap, quick and dirty, best enjoyed private and takeout,
> decent variety, and outlets are found in poor sleazy neighborhoods.
If you want to eat like the masses, let surveys tell you where to eat.
If you want to really enjoy food, eat what *you* love, and to hell with
the surveys! It's all in your tastebuds . . . and *your* taste. I'm
surprised RAK would want to be so . . . ugh . . . *average*. ;-)
The Zagat survey probably tells us more about who completes Zagat
surveys than it does about how the quality of Chinese food.
Chinese restaurants in Western countries are perceived as low quality
because they're catering to locals who equate Chinese food with "cheap".
It's natural selection in action -- that's what people are used to,
that's why they go to Chinese restaurants, so that's what they get. I've
heard some Westerners whining about the prices in high-end Chinese
restaurants while wondering aloud "hey, how come they don't have chop
suey and deep fried prawns on this menu"? If you order dishes that are
truly excellent, they'll be disappointed. I've found excellent, clean,
classy Chinese restaurants in many Western cities with substantial
Chinese populations. But you don't usually find chop suey or deep fried
prawns on the menu.
Verno
lechergod
you waste ng resources with your troll posts of self glory.
you are your day-dreaming proposal,
keep that to your dead books,
no more to bother me !!!!
>> > Sorry, no link here except http://www.zagat.com/
>> >
>> > You can join the site if you want. If you read the actual book (I don't
>> > have it, but browsed thru it), in most North American cities, there is
>> > invariably one or two Japanese restaurants that make it on the top of
>> > top 10 or 15 --- even in places that you don't see many Japanese.
>> > Other ones include that are "top choices in a city" include restaurants
>> > that serve Northern Italian, French, Continental, Seafood, and yes,
>> > even Thai cuisine. Japanese dominate the rankings in Los Angeles as a
>> > single group, for instance if I remember correctly and are more common
>> > than Thai. But there are NO Chinese restaurants even in Los Angeles
>> > that made it!! You will see "Asian" Fusion here and there or Indian, or
>> > Thai, but NO Chinese!!!
>> >
>> > And this CANNOT be blamed on bias obviously - Chinese restaurants
>> > (and/or food) are INCREDIBLY popular, like McDonalds, like Pizza,
>> > especially amongst fresh off the boat or local Chinese, 3rd world or
>> > 1.5 world. But it's like....all quantity, no quality. Yes yes I know
>> > there are many factors, and you can certainly find top Chinese
>> > restaurants *within* the Chinese category, but that's not the point.
>> > When referenced across other cuisines, and yes I could have missed some
>> > in some cities, there are more Japanese top selections than Chinese,
>> > EVEN though Chinese food/restaurants is way more popular. It's like
>> > when there are 150 girls and say 50 boys competing in a Math Olympiad
>> > and the top 10 are all boys.
>> >
>> > But bottom line: Chinese food (and Korean food)/restaurants when
>> > compared to Japanese and others (e.g. Northern Italian, French) are not
>> > top of the top in consensus and public opinion according to the survey.
>> > Not that there aren't any (I didn't see one, but as I said, I could
>> > have missed it) but the 'critical mass' certainly isn't there.
>> >
>> > And this is consistent with most of our experiences: most Chinese
>> > restaurants really are operated by recent poor dirty third world
>> > immigrants and serve low class food that are replete with health
>> > hazards, dish out poor service, and many are like porn outlets as I've
>> > said before: cheap, quick and dirty, best enjoyed private and takeout,
>> > decent variety, and outlets are found in poor sleazy neighborhoods.
>> >
RichAsianKid
This goes back to your perception theory. That's why it would be very
difficult to take a date to a Chinese restaurant. No matter how
expensive it is, it will be seen as cheap. A case can be made because
of it being 'unfamiliar' (for non-Chinese) but then the ambience of
fusion or Thai (restricting ourselves to Asian cuisine here) is
certainly way better. Do you want waiters spilling tea all over you,
chasing you out of the restaurant after an hour of you shouting at your
date across the table? Do you think women would want to eat roasted
pigs and 'suckling pig' heads?
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4147/2509/1600/Pig%20Head%20Opposite%201.jpg
Besides, is that kind of food what you want to serve in business
meetings? Unless you have a huge Chinese clientele, serving Chinese
food will be seen as very cheap and low price, and not only that there
is often so much oil, MSG, corn starch etc, and that is certainly no
time to explain about one's unique signature 'exotic tastes' and climb
out of the hole that you've dug yourselves in!
As for health effects of Chinese food and Japanese food, you see the
following.
Chinese food can be very bad!
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001126.htm
Japanese food is healthy!
http://www.eatsushi.com/article.asp?X=38
I've said it before - Chinese food is like porn - great variety, cheap
'n' dirty (pun intended!), addictive to some, best enjoyed private and
takeout, and outlets are often found in sleazy neighborhoods. Chinese
food is good for many occasions. But upper class and elegant functions
and Chinese food are probably almost mutually exclusive.
As for comparisons, Japanese compared to Chinese has a much better
reputation. They are also more pricey, in general. The cheap Japanese
ones - e.g. Japanese buffets!! -- are operated by Chinese. They spoil
the art and ruin everything. Also, many of the "cheap" mom 'n' pop
Japanese restaurants are operated by Koreans, and that's why sometimes
you'll be surprised that they serve Korean dishes in a Japanese
restaurant.
abia...@my-deja.com
why more obesed people are found among white folks than among Chinese
people? BTW, MSG is your beloved Japanese invention, any comments?
Oh, how's Chinese food in your hometown Toronto? Tell us how gross it
is in your opinion.
RichAsianKid
abia...@my-deja.com wrote:
> If Chinese food is so bad as you have tried to portray (or smear) here,
> why more obesed people are found among white folks than among Chinese
> people? BTW, MSG is your beloved Japanese invention, any comments?
>
> Oh, how's Chinese food in your hometown Toronto? Tell us how gross it
> is in your opinion.
>
Hey hey hey! I have support.
I'll answer your valid questions, just this once, just this once, for
your 3rd world mainland Chinese education!! (Just this once OK, cuz I
enjoy it, no more *long* posts for me in the future!!)
(1) With regards to obesity, Mainland Chinese were thin in mainland
China because they're starved by the CCP in the past!! Remember that
the vast majority (one estimate as quoted before, 900 million people
[!!]) earn less than $2 US per day and live in hellish inferno
conditions. If you can't put food on the table, if you have to toil the
farms every day (= lots of exercise) it's very difficult to get fat.
It's input output equation, right? Little input, much output. No fat.
Which is why, and it is old news by now, that as China is becoming more
affluent, there is now a huge surge in obesity rates, especially in
cities.
Now, comparisons. When racial groups are standardized, obesity figures
in Japan are lower than China, 7% Chinese adults (eating "low class"
Chinese) vs 3% in Japan/Korea (eating "higher class" Japanese and
Korean) in some studies; French (with "higher class" French haute
cuisine) has 1/3 obesity rates than Americans (though this group can be
heterogenous, eating American food - low class compared to French!). So
this class-obesity relationship still holds.
So how is it that American obesity is so high? American diet is also
very unhealthy. I have never claimed that American food is *healthier*
than Chinese food. Look at all the scrambled eggs, sausages, bacon for
breakfast! Look at the greasy 32oz Texan steak! Ridiculous portions. I
rank Chinese food as junk food, like McDonalds, Pizza, sometimes very
delicious, but very oily, and like I said, junk, but secretly
pleasurable. Why are Americans fatter? Again, input and output isn't
it? Chinese have to slave and toil harder, few with their $2 a day own
cars (let alone a BMW?) and thus with same calorie intake they're
likely thinner as they exercise more.
NOW, having said all that, **far** more useful will be looking at the
following index. This should erase ANY lingering doubt. Obesity is only
one factor on health. So why not look at the core factor, health
itself? I want you to answer me on this one. Don't blink or you'll miss
it. Get this straight abianchen: JAPAN IS THE MOST HEALTHY COUNTRY IN
THE WORLD. Third world China is most certainly NOT in the top ten. And
neither is the US (with unhealthy foods). But France is third. THIRD.
And we know how haute French cuisine is don't we? I'd be interested to
see where in the cesspool 3rd world mainland China is languishing in!!
============
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/774434.stm
Japan 'the most healthy country'
Japanese children can look forward to a long and healthy life
People who live in Japan can expect to remain in good health longer
than anybody else in the world, according to the World Health
Organisation (WHO).
WHO scientists have developed a new way of calculating the number of
years that a person can be expected to live in full health.
It is known as the DALE (Disability-Adjusted Life Years) system, and
gives a truer picture of the health of a country than simply studying
death rates.
Top ten countries
Japan - 74.5 years
Australia - 73.2
France - 73.1
Sweden - 73.0
Italy - 72.7
Spain - 72.8
Greece - 72.5
Switzerland - 72.5
Monaco - 72.4
Andorra - 72.3
Using the system to rank the world's 191 countries has uncovered some
surprise findings.
In Japan the average healthy life expectancy is 74.5 years.
Australia is second and France third on the list, but the US ranks only
number 24.
The UK is 14th, with an average of 71.7 years. For UK women the average
is 73.7 years, for men it is 69.7 years
For a full list of countries in ranking order click here .
Sierra Leone comes last with an average life expectancy at birth of
only 25.9 years.
There is a notable gender gap in many countries. For instance, in
Russia women can expect 66.4 years of full health, compared to just
56.1 years for men.
The WHO estimates almost 56 million people died in 1999, 10.5 million
of whom were children less than 5 years of age.
Previously, life expectancy estimates were based on the overall length
of life based on data about death rates.
Bottom ten countries
Sierra Leona - 25.9 years
Niger - 29.1
Malawi - 29.4
Zambia - 30.3
Botswana - 32.3
Uganda - 32.7
Rwanda - 32.8
Zimbabwe - 32.9
Mali - 33.1
Ethiopia - 33.5
To calculate DALE, the years of ill-health are weighted according to
severity and subtracted from the expected overall life expectancy to
give the equivalent years of healthy life.
The WHO rankings show that years lost to disability are substantially
higher in poorer countries because some limitations - blindness,
paralysis and the debilitating effects of several tropical diseases
such as malaria - strike children and young adults.
People in the healthiest regions lose 9% of their lives to disability,
compared to 14% in the worst-off countries.
DALE is estimated to equal or exceed 70 years in 24 countries.
At the other extreme are 32 countries where disability-adjusted life
expectancy is estimated to be less than 40 years.
Many of these are countries with major epidemics of HIV/AIDS, among
other causes.
Dr Christopher Murray, director of WHO's Global Programme on Evidence
for Health Policy, said: "The position of the United States is one of
the major surprises of the new rating system.
"Basically, you die earlier and spend more time disabled if you're an
American rather than a member of most other advanced countries."
The reasons why the US rates so low may be partly due to the very poor
standard of health among some ethnic minorities and people who live in
the inner cities.
Rates of coronary heart disease are also high.
All of the bottom 10 countries were in sub-Saharan Africa, where the
HIV-AIDS epidemic is rampant.
Alan Lopex, co-ordinator of the WHO Epidemiology and Burden of Disease
team, said: "Healthy life expectancy in some African countries is
dropping back to levels we haven't seen in advanced countries since
Medieval times."
=================
Satisfied now?
(2)
You want my comments on Japanese invention MSG? Well, Chinese copy
Japanese. Again. Anything. Mainland Chinese seem to have a knack for
knockoffs and copy everything. That shouldn't surprise you.
(3)
RAK rarely go to Chinese restaurants; when he eats Chinese (as secret
pleasures like junk food, like Burger King Chicken Sandwich or
Whopper!) he gets takeout. He just cannot stand the atmosphere in
Chinese restaurants. Even Burger King is more pleasurable than many
Chinese restaurants. People in Chinese restaurants are elbowing each
other, are rude and are dirty, and some are even filthy and smell. Of
course you can never never bring dates there -- you can't even bring
*friends* to many of them. The closest that RAK goes to would be
fusion.
You asked me to tell you how gross Chinese food is. A picture is worth
a thousand words. RAK has three photos that he took for everyone to
see: one from Hong Kong, two from mainland China. These should be more
"authentic" than Westernized Chinese food or fusion, correct? They're
from the source. Two from supposedly "higher class" hotel food served
for TOURISTS, one from a restaurant. God help China! Can you imagine
serving this in a wine 'n' cheese high society inbred soiree? Don't
think so!!!!
(1) Pig's Head!
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4147/2509/1600/Pig%20Head%20Opposite%201.jpg
(2) Caterpillars! (or whatever!!)
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4147/2509/1600/Caterpillar.1.jpg
(3) Chinese style Chicken!
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4147/2509/1600/Chinese%20Chicken.1.jpg
North@oyama.bc.ca Vernon North
richas...@hotmail.com says...
It would be a poor choice for other reasons AFAIC. You can't order much
variety with 2 people, and why go for a Chinese dinner when you can't
order more than, say, 3 dishes?
> No matter how
> expensive it is, it will be seen as cheap.
Not in Vancouver, and not in several other North American cities with
large Chinese populations. Do you live in Arizona or something? Or
maybe Utah? ;-)
> A case can be made because
> of it being 'unfamiliar' (for non-Chinese) but then the ambience of
> fusion or Thai (restricting ourselves to Asian cuisine here) is
> certainly way better. Do you want waiters spilling tea all over you,
> chasing you out of the restaurant after an hour of you shouting at your
> date across the table? Do you think women would want to eat roasted
> pigs and 'suckling pig' heads?
> http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4147/2509/1600/Pig%20Head%20Opposite%201.jpg
Are you extrapolating from your own experience?
>
> Besides, is that kind of food what you want to serve in business
> meetings? Unless you have a huge Chinese clientele, serving Chinese
> food will be seen as very cheap and low price, and not only that there
> is often so much oil, MSG, corn starch etc, and that is certainly no
> time to explain about one's unique signature 'exotic tastes' and climb
> out of the hole that you've dug yourselves in!
Sometimes I can't tell whether you're really inexperienced, or if you're
really trying to piss people off. Really, you don't know much about
business entertaining. Many business people coming to Vancouver for a
meeting love the idea of going to a great Chinese restaurant for dinner,
and that includes whites.
>
> As for health effects of Chinese food and Japanese food, you see the
> following.
>
> Chinese food can be very bad!
> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001126.htm
> Japanese food is healthy!
> http://www.eatsushi.com/article.asp?X=38
>
> I've said it before
We know, we know!
> - Chinese food is like porn - great variety, cheap
> 'n' dirty (pun intended!), addictive to some, best enjoyed private and
> takeout, and outlets are often found in sleazy neighborhoods. Chinese
> food is good for many occasions. But upper class and elegant functions
> and Chinese food are probably almost mutually exclusive.
>
> As for comparisons, Japanese compared to Chinese has a much better
> reputation. They are also more pricey, in general. The cheap Japanese
> ones - e.g. Japanese buffets!! -- are operated by Chinese. They spoil
> the art and ruin everything. Also, many of the "cheap" mom 'n' pop
> Japanese restaurants are operated by Koreans, and that's why sometimes
> you'll be surprised that they serve Korean dishes in a Japanese
> restaurant.
>
Do you exchange ideas to bolster your prejudices, or are you actually
considering other points of view?
Verno
abia...@my-deja.com
people in HK, Singapore, and Taiwan. And tell us why are you so short
and look UNHEALTHY pale is that because of Japanese food?
I was asking you how grosss Chinese food in *your hometown Toronto*, so
tell us!
lechergod
that is communists' dogs' way of libelling for PRC for licking arsehole
rice.
RichAsianKid
abia...@my-deja.com wrote:
> You will find more obesed people among white folks than among Chinese
> people in HK, Singapore, and Taiwan. And tell us why are you so short
> and look UNHEALTHY pale is that because of Japanese food?
>
> I was asking you how grosss Chinese food in *your hometown Toronto*, so
> tell us!
>
We're all waiting for your answer.
abia...@my-deja.com
so great, why are you so short and look so UNHEALTHY pale?
JuHee Won
Yes, I agreed your opinion.
Many Chinese restaurants really dirty and cheap, so many third world
immigrants use the restaurants. But why Chinese restaurants aren't top lank
while Japanese restaurants dominate the rankings?First, the flaver of food
of Chinese restaurants are almost same among them. On the other hand,
Japanese restaurants are all different among each restaurants.So, people
think "Chinese restaurants and Chinese foods are just alike. But Japanese
restaurants and Japanese foods differ from place to place. So Japanese
restaurants
are better than Chinese(and Korean)restaurants."
In addition, Japanese have 'the artisan spirit' so Japanese cooks also have
that.
A Japanese cook think "I am the best chef in my field", so they can make
fine
cuisines. This also can be the reason why Japanese restaurants dominate the
rankings.
How about you guys' opinion?
"RichAsianKid" <richas...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162676148.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
abia...@my-deja.com
tomorrow?
JuHee Won
<abia...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1162907716....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
RichAsianKid
You'll be surprised that in those areas how many Japanese restaurants
make it to the premium lists (tourist pamphlets), yet how many Chinese
fine dining restaurants are there? Few if any. And yet how many
Japanese really live there?
Are those "*fine* dining Chinese restaurants" operated by mainland
Chinese or Hong Kong Chinese? Or Taiwanese Chinese? Because there is a
big difference.
How would you compare the number of Chinese-Canadian people operating
wannabe Japanese restaurants versus Japanese-Canadian people operating
Chinese restaurants?
RichAsianKid
JuHee Won wrote:
> Yes, I agreed your opinion.
> Many Chinese restaurants really dirty and cheap, so many third world
> immigrants use the restaurants. But why Chinese restaurants aren't top lank
> while Japanese restaurants dominate the rankings?First, the flaver of food
> of Chinese restaurants are almost same among them. On the other hand,
> Japanese restaurants are all different among each restaurants.So, people
> think "Chinese restaurants and Chinese foods are just alike. But Japanese
> restaurants and Japanese foods differ from place to place. So Japanese
> restaurants
> are better than Chinese(and Korean)restaurants."
> In addition, Japanese have 'the artisan spirit' so Japanese cooks also have
> that.
> A Japanese cook think "I am the best chef in my field", so they can make
> fine
> cuisines. This also can be the reason why Japanese restaurants dominate the
> rankings.
>
> How about you guys' opinion?
I agree with the above. Many Chinese restaurants are geared towards
making money primarily but at ALL costs, including cutting corners. I
have first hand info from a friend (originally from Taiwan) whose
parents know someone who has experience managing restaurants. Thus it's
the small things apparently - do they buy in bulk, do they buy those
spring roll sheets in in cartons etc, or they may sacrifice the grade
of seaweed, salmon, flour in the wrap when emulating Japanese -- the
Chinese keep prices as low as possible by using the lowest grade
available - even those marginally expired -- i.e. cutting corners --
while they use slightly lower pricing to entice potential customers
thinking that they're having authentic Japanese when in fact they're
not.
Another friend (white anglo) loves Japanese and keeps saying just how
much Chinese have bastardized and debased Japanese cuisine by all the
buffets. (He seems more OK with Koreans, for at least Koreans seem to
preserve some of the flavor and ambience, but the Chinese are
horrendous). Yet another friend of a friend - grandparents from Japan -
says both she and her parents will never visit a Japanese restaurant
that's not run and operated by Japanese.
Bottom line: When you eat at most Chinese restaurants, it's like eating
at a high school canteen. It's hardly a 'dining' experience. Now there
are times for that, like Burger King and Taco Bell, but certainly it's
not the premier destination to bring dates, to celebrate a wedding
anniversary, have a business presentation, legal conference, medical
meeting, making a sales pitch etc.
abia...@my-deja.com
except eating Chinese take-outs. Tell us why you are so short if
Japanese food is so great.
abia...@my-deja.com
themselves in tourist pamphlets! No wonder people said you are so
*average* like tourist. :^))
Many "best food" restaurants do not have best or even good decor, but
sophisticated people (except RAK) still go there for food.
North@oyama.bc.ca Vernon North
Japanese restaurants staffed by Japanese sushi chefs (at least out
front). I'm not aware of any Chinese restaurants run by Japanese-
Canadians.
Verno
James
Vernon North wrote:
> From what I've seen, there are many Chinese-Canadians operating wannabe
> Japanese restaurants staffed by Japanese sushi chefs (at least out
> front). I'm not aware of any Chinese restaurants run by Japanese-
> Canadians.
>
> Verno
That's because of the high number of Chinese restaurants and
Japanese-Canadians not being stupid enough to enter a highly
competitive business.
BTW the Japs are pissed at all the shit being served as Japanese food.
Their government now has a division solely for the inspection of
"Japanese" food. They say real Japs in Japan would never eat the shit
served in the west as Japanese food. Of course some in the west even
pay a premium just to eat the shit and brag about loving it. Sushi &
tempora are the Jap equivant of chop suey. Some in the west even thing
instant udon is high class. LOL.
RichAsianKid
world!! And China has such low life expectancy compared to Japan. No,
CIA Factbook will NOT come to your rescue this time. BWahahahahahaa!!!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/774434.stm
RichAsianKid
PaPaPeng wrote:
> On 7 Nov 2006 23:18:27 -0800, "RichAsianKid"
> <richas...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Another friend (white anglo) loves Japanese and keeps saying just how
> >much Chinese have bastardized and debased Japanese cuisine by all the
> >buffets. (He seems more OK with Koreans, for at least Koreans seem to
> >preserve some of the flavor and ambience, but the Chinese are
> >horrendous). Yet another friend of a friend - grandparents from Japan -
> >says both she and her parents will never visit a Japanese restaurant
> >that's not run and operated by Japanese.
> >
>
> Japanese one. No point as the cooking styles are entirely different.
> Japanese go anal on the freshness of their food because its served
> either raw or hardly cooked. Frozen or less than fresh food served
> that way is inedible. It has to be almost freshly killed, for example
> fish in ice, never frozen. Japanese food has very little flavoring or
> sauces, except soy, so as not to overwhelm the fresh taste of food.
>
> I don't go to a Japanese restaurant because dinner for one normally
> works out to $40 and over. The unhappy part is the portions are so
> small, single mouthfuls usually, that I come out still hungry. That's
> the complaint of my Chinese friends too. For $30 I can order a
> delicious dinner for two at a Chinese restaurant and eat it all. I'm
> a big eater and that is really value for money.
You've sumed it up above:
Chinese - cheap, quantity
Japanese - exquisite, quality
Foods for different occasions
>
>
> >Bottom line: When you eat at most Chinese restaurants, it's like eating
> >at a high school canteen. It's hardly a 'dining' experience. Now there
> >are times for that, like Burger King and Taco Bell, but certainly it's
> >not the premier destination to bring dates, to celebrate a wedding
> >anniversary, have a business presentation, legal conference, medical
> >meeting, making a sales pitch etc.
> >
>
> I go to a restaurant to eat, not to show off or be conned by the "I am
> Pierre, you waiter tonight" BS. All that means is very high prices
> and an exhorbitant tip. As for that dating requirement, yes you have
> to impress her that you are willing to spend money on her. But once
> married she will be the first one to insist that you don't waste money
> that way anymore. Same thing for formal dinners. You can't bring
> your guests to some noisy crowded family sized restaurant. There is
> no such thing as a low end restaurant good for more than a 100 seated
> guests. ( Except those "All you can eat" places that have family
> sized tables and booths but no tables for 10 and these places are self
> serve).
Even in Chinese restaurants you can reserve a room for seminars, talks
etc. But it's the ambience, service, just about everything else that do
not measure up even if the food is decent.
And as to your other comment above, I've said Chinese food is like porn
- cheap, best take out & private, often dirty, addictive to some, good
variety etc... that's why it's good fast food. Which goes back to the
Zagat survey where food quantity or price are NOT the only
considerations; it's the entire dining experience, the package deal,
that counts.
>
> This is a Chinese discussion group. We eat Chinese. You are drawing
> false conclusions on taste and style based on fale premises. The
> Zagat Survey has little relevance to us. Once more, "I go to a
> restaurant to eat, not to show off or be conned by the "I am Pierre,
> you waiter tonight" BS."
And also your previous thread if I recall correctly doesn't hold - you
sort of implied that other ethnic cuisines (Vietnamese) will need to
appeal to mainstream customers because there are not critical numbers
of patrons from their own ethnic group, so will have to adjust their
practices accordingly (better decor, service etc.) And yet we do not
see many fine dining Chinese cuisines in areas where there are very few
Chinese, correct? These should be areas where there is MOST incentive
to adopt to mainstream culinary practices, and yet these are often
areas where people find the worst Chinese food. And yet there are at
least a couple fine Japanese restaurnants that pop up in hotel
recommended lists, airport brochures at airports or hotels when you go
to places where there are very very few Japanese - like "middle
America" for instance. And Japanese there are probably even fewer than
Chinese population.
So this whole question is: there are many many Chinese restaurants
around (i.e. very very popular), yet very few make it to the top.
That's why I cited the math olympiad example: it's like say 150 girls
competing with 50 boys in a math competition. Yet the top 10 are all
boys.
abia...@my-deja.com
food"? Anyway, RAK, tell us why you are so short if Japanese food is
that great, in fact, on average Japanese are shorter than Chinese in
Taiwan, ha, that may explain why you are a shortie. :^))
abia...@my-deja.com
RichAsianKid
abia...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Australians also live very long, want to tell us about "Australian
> food"? Anyway, RAK, tell us why you are so short if Japanese food is
> that great, in fact, on average Japanese are shorter than Chinese in
> Taiwan, ha, that may explain why you are a shortie. :^))
>
>
So the whole thrust of this is that genes are very important then (your
Australian example)? So if Japanese still beats Chinese in health and
longevity, are you saying that they are superior in genes? So let's see
now, whether it's genes or food, you still have no answer! Abainchen!!
And thank you for implying that RAK has Japanese characteristics (along
with that North NorthEast Asian complexion that you keep mentioning!)
and does not have enough Chinese genes that contaminate his genome!!
abia...@my-deja.com
RichAsianKid
PaPaPeng wrote:
> On 8 Nov 2006 13:49:49 -0800, "RichAsianKid"
> <richas...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >So this whole question is: there are many many Chinese restaurants
> >around (i.e. very very popular), yet very few make it to the top.
> >That's why I cited the math olympiad example: it's like say 150 girls
> >competing with 50 boys in a math competition. Yet the top 10 are all
> >boys.
>
>
> special ethnic restaurants (Indian for example) have very few regular
> customers from their ethnic group. For the few customers they have
> the owner has to charge higher prices to make up for the low customer
> volume. To charge higer prices they have to make their restaurant
> more "classy." This kind of restaurant also has to advertise in the
> tourist type brochures since the local clientle will rarely if ever
> sustain their business. For the publishers to survive, ie get more
> advertising, they have to write good things about their advertisers.
> Their food critic gets a free meal and they never say anything
> negative in their food review. I did a stint in publishing once and
> the food critique guy sat just across from me.
>
> Don't confuse an industry practice with good food. Don't confuse a
> dressed up restaurant with good cusine either. If you want to impress
> people with your fine dining, fine. The people you impress will be
> people like you "Keep up with the Joneses types". The rest of us the
> great unwashed are quite happy with our great unwashed delicious
> dining. These "Son of the Soil" restuarants don't care much about
> the decor and the Chinky cafetaria style is just fine.
>
> As for fine western dining a sirloin steak is a sirloin steak anywhere
> anyplace and it will be a miracle for a chef to ruin one or to make
> one so delicious that I would go specifically back to a particular
> restaurant to eat that. There is nothing to distinguish one western
> restaurant from another except for the "I'm you waiter" BS.
>
> I have patronized more genuine ethnic restaurants in their native
> countries than most people will ever have the opportunity to. I
> always find the dirtiest and busiest native restaurants serve the best
> genuine stuff. The dressed-up minority ethnic restaurants in western
> countries (N. America) serve some bastardized cusine because they have
> to cater to western tastes. This is as simple as no having coconut
> milk or the right chilli and spices for Indian curries. Ever wonder
> why you rarely see a genuine Indian in an Indian restaurant, or a Nip
> in a Japanese restaurant. Its because the stuff they cook at home is
> more authentic. And you can't blame the chef because coconut milk
> does not keep well and they cannot sell enough to make it worthwhile
> to make a economical batch. Same goes for spices. They don't scale
> down well to capture the authentic flavor.
So by your reasoning above we should expect to find many "fine"
"classy" Chinese restaurants that charge high prices in areas where
there are few Chinese patrons, like smaller towns perhaps, because
these are places where there are very few Chinese around, so they're
forced to cater to Western tastes, including service, decor etc, like
Indian or Japanese as you said. YET that's not what we find. You see
cheap chop suey places, bastardized food, but still very very cheap &
often dirty places. These places are even worse than chinese
restaurants in Chinatown because the food is bad not real Chinese AND
there is no redeeming quality like service, decor, ambience, unlike
Indian or Japanese. Confirmed by the fact that these are not premier
restaurants advertised in hotel recommended lists of *fine* dining,
unlike Japanese (or perhaps Indian - there ARE a few fine Indian
cuisine listed in Zagat, less frequent than Japanese). So the motto of
Chinese restaurants even when there are few Chinese around must be:
cheap, affordable, quick, dirty etc, that's their business philosophy
and forget about a fine Chinese dining experience -- like forget
serving champagne in Taco Bell -- even when 'catering to Westerners'.
While Japanese (or Indian) want to move up and offer a whole, dining
experience package.
rst0...@yahoo.com
You're wrong, RAT. I grew up in a small town, and my father had a
"Chinese restaurant". Even the name was NOT Chinese. We served all
American food. The sign outside the store was the biggest town. All
equipments were stainless steel and all polished and shining. The
restaurant was closed every night for cleaning and soap-down
completely. The health inspector and his family were regular customers
and we always maintained an "A" rating.
Now, the town has 3 Chinese restaurants, and they DO serve Chinese food
like the foods serve in Chinese restaurants in California. I guess
Americans everywhere have gotten used to eating Chinese food California
style. Even movies show Chinese food from take-outs.
> You see
> cheap chop suey places, bastardized food, but still very very cheap &
> often dirty places.
You should have come look at my father's restaurant. The only
restaurant school athletes eat.
> These places are even worse than chinese
> restaurants in Chinatown because the food is bad not real Chinese AND
> there is no redeeming quality like service, decor, ambience, unlike
> Indian or Japanese. Confirmed by the fact that these are not premier
> restaurants advertised in hotel recommended lists of *fine* dining,
In the old days, fine restaurants were reccomended by "Duncan Hines".
My father's restaurant was reccomended by "Duncan Hines" as the
country's finest restaurants to eat.
> unlike Japanese (or perhaps Indian - there ARE a few fine Indian
> cuisine listed in Zagat, less frequent than Japanese). So the motto of
> Chinese restaurants even when there are few Chinese around must be:
> cheap, affordable, quick, dirty etc, that's their business philosophy
> and forget about a fine Chinese dining experience -- like forget
> serving champagne in Taco Bell -- even when 'catering to Westerners'.
> While Japanese (or Indian) want to move up and offer a whole, dining
> experience package.
RAT, take your prejudice and go to the soc.culture.japan. You like it
better over there, so I don't see your RAT posts.
abia...@my-deja.com
Chinese dont rely on CNN, NYT, LAT to know what's happening in Taiwan
or China. Only idiots like you would treat Zagat like Bible.