Pope Francis is the new pontiff....Since he is not elected by the people, is he the real leader of all Catholics ?

[baldeagle]

Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina is the new Pope...elected by the
elites, the Cardinals, of the Catholic Church. His election is not
like how Obama was chosen by Americans...he is chosen more like the
way how Xi Jinping is elected.

Can he be considered the real leader of the 1.2 billions Catholics
around the world (since he is not elected by the people) ?

The Catholic church is one the most successful organisation ..in the
world...having survived much longer than the USA.
China is one of the longest surviving civilization in the world
For this reason alone....their way of choosing their leaders must be
better than those in democracy !!!!

[rst9]

China was defeated by the Manchu and forced to live the Manchu ways.
Just remember:

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.china/2011-06/msg00121.html

Since you did mention "Chinese way of life". Yes, the Chinese did give
up the Chinese way of life, and use the Manchu way of life. The shaved
forehead and queues were NOT Chinese ways. It was forced on the
Chinese by Norachi.

Yes, China was a Mongolian nation, NOT a Chinese nation for sure. No
Chinese had any power. Europeans were hired to oversee the Chinese.
Being Chinese was the lowest form of human misery during the Yuan
Dynasty. He died from illness at the age of 79, obesity and gout. He
loved to eat animal organs. He was buried in Mongolia, NOT in China.

[baldeagle]

On Mar 14, 5:18 am, rst9 <rst9w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 13, 1:50 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina is the new Pope...elected by the
> > elites, the Cardinals,  of the Catholic Church. His election is not
> > like how Obama was chosen by Americans...he is chosen more like the
> > way how Xi Jinping is elected.
>
> > Can he be considered the real leader of the 1.2 billions Catholics
> > around the world (since he is not elected by the people) ?
>
> > The Catholic church is one the most successful organisation ..in the
> > world...having survived much longer than the USA.
> > China is one of the longest surviving  civilization in the world
> > For this reason alone....their way of choosing their leaders must be
> > better than those in democracy !!!!
>
> China was defeated by the Manchu and forced to live the Manchu ways.
> Just remember:

I said China was the longest surviving CIVILIZATION....
Did I say China was NEVER defeated ?

China was defeated not only by the Manchus...but
also the Mongolians. However...both the Mongolian
and the Manchus, more or less barbarians...became
civilized as Chinese...adopted the Chinese ways of life...
Chinese culture, Chinese rites, Chinese literature,
eat Chinese food, drink Chinese tea, eat with
chop sticks and bowl...gave their children Chinese
names....write with Chinese brush...took the Mandarin
Exams.....and ruled under Chinese model of governance.

In short....they become CHINESE nationals.

>
> http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.china/2011-06...

[rst0]

And again, I would remind you, the shaved head and queues (the Manchu
customs) were still around up to the 1920s, even 9 years after the
establishment of the Republic of China.

As a matter of fact, I still remember the days I wore the coconut
brush Manchu hair-style for children in the 1940s.
Chinese continued to use Manchu styles up to the communist take-over
in 1949.

[baldeagle]

Was the pigtail....all that is to the whole of Chinese civilization...
Where is your pigtail now?

Like most thing foreign and barbaric... the pig tail is
gone...but the Chinese way survived.

If you have read and understand the I Ching..you would
know... why the pig tail, communism, western ideologies
are gone...and why Chinese civilization live on after 5,000 years

[baldeagle]

On Mar 14, 6:32 am, aeh.c...@auckland.ac.nz wrote:

> Umm... the traditional chinese way of choosing leaders was:
>
> (1) Child or other relative of the existing leader
> (2) The guy who managed to get the existing leader's head chopped off (revolution).
>
> Surely we don't want these as the standard mechanisms of succession.

Are chopping head off...the standard of leadership
succession in China ? Are you in orbit around
a black hole ??!!
Was Bush not the son of senior Bush ?
Was LHL not the son of LKY ?

The POPE is not elected by the people...and the
fact that Catholic church has survived for over 2000
years under leaders so elected...say something that
they must be doing it right.

Whereas...democracy died in Greece long ago...and
now the modern version, the US democracy is in
serious decline...
In fact the USA is not really a democracy any more...NO
longer a government of the people, by the people
and for the people.






>
> Cecil Chua

[rst0]

On Mar 13, 8:54 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 14, 11:45 am, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Was the pigtail....all that is to the whole of Chinese civilization...

For the Chinese, it was a sign of obedience to the Manchu way, a
Manchu ruler of China.
Yes, it was a symbol of submission to the Manchu.

> Where is your pigtail now?

Even Pu Yi cut off his queue in the 1920s within the Forbidden City.
In the old days in China, children wore coconuts brush hairstyle.
And I had coconut brush hairstyle when I was a kid in China.
It was a sign of submission to the Manchu.

>
> Like most thing foreign and barbaric... the pig tail is
> gone...but the Chinese way survived.

It did NOT survive. What is China today in China is NOT the China of
the past.
Certainly, from 1644 - 1912, China was NOT the China of old, China
was Manchu.

And during the Yuan dynasty, China was Mongolia, not China of any
form.

>
> If you have read and understand the I Ching..you would
> know...  why the pig tail, communism, western ideologies
> are  gone...and why Chinese civilization live on after 5,000 years

People can write books to fit any way they believe. I Ching is
another book, just like any other book.
History books change depending on who is in power.

Chinese civilization did not live on for 5,000 years.

As Lo Kuan-chung wrote during the 14th century"

"Empires wax and wane; states cleave asunder and coalesce"

China was broken up many many times, changed hands many many times.
Some of the rulers ruled for short period of times, others longer, and
many were non-Chinese.
Some adopted Chinese customs. Others did not. Clearly, the Manchus
and Mongols did not.

[baldeagle]

On Mar 14, 12:19 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 13, 8:54 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 14, 11:45 am, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

.> > Was the pigtail....all that is to the whole of Chinese
civilization...
>
.> For the Chinese, it was a sign of obedience to the Manchu way, a
.> Manchu ruler of China.

SO...So...what is the big deal about the
pigtail.
You did not answer the question.

Was the pigtail...the only thing about Chinese
civilization...the most significant thing about
Chinese civilization ? Nothing else matters !!!

> Yes, it was a symbol of submission to the Manchu.

So... It is the symbol of submission to the Manchu
emperor... the Chinese peasants had been submissive
to all their emperors...not only the Manshu emperor.
BUT is the pigtail STILL the symbol of submission
to the Manchus...
or Is the Manchu people being absorbed by Chinese
culture ?

Let me put it in a simpler way:

Are you saying ...the Negros are still slaves in
the USA ...just because they were once slaves.

Let me tell you...what is more shameful than
being submissive to the Manchu emperor.

For a time...China was much worse than just
wearing the pigtail...the Chinese were known
as the "Sick man of Asia.".. They were treated
worse than dogs... in certain places in Shanghai
there were prominent signs...telling the Chinese
people.."Dogs and Chinese NOT ALLOWED here"

Fortunately, this shame, this dark charter of Chinese
history did not live on for ever....The Chinese people
is no longer treated worse than dogs in China...
Chinese cut their the pig tail when the Manchu
empire fall in 1911.

The Chinese has risen again from the ashes...

How ?
China did not become a democracy...like the USA.
No, China did not become strong because it
submit to the will of the USA...to become
sham Americans...taking on American culture..
and did not become American stooges like
the Japanese.

How ?
China has now better systems than the USA...
a better system to grow the economy...a better
system to build world renown infrastructures...a
better system to give hundreds of millions poor
Chinese a better life...a better system to catch
up in many key areas in science and technology...
a better educational system in teaching her children...
a better system in leadership succession (for the
last 5 decades)...
In short...China has better cats....hungry cats
that catch mice. ...NOT the FAT cats like those
in Washington.

Do you know why ?
Because China has a better system in choosing
her leaders...choosing EFFECTIVE man .....while the
USA has a flawed system which elected Obama, a
black puppet who serve those special interests groups
who paid for his election.


>
The rest are deleted...similar china bashing
garbage.

[The Cynic]

On 14 Mar, 04:50, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina is the new Pope...elected by the
> elites, the Cardinals,  of the Catholic Church. His election is not
> like how Obama was chosen by Americans...he is chosen more like the
> way how Xi Jinping is elected.

Religion is a make-believe world. Rational thinking and practices are
not welcome there. Followers of the various gods do not have the
privilege of even electing their gods as the charlatans who invented
the various brands of religion had already chosen what god their
followers must pray to and what practices they should conduct. The
followers are like sheep who follow their leader without questioning.
Just recall what happened to Galileo and Copernicus when they started
questioning Christian practices. In modern times questioning Muslims
have also ended up in a sorry state.

To me the election of the new Catholic head is a joke. So many popes
have come and gone. Have they uplifted the living conditions of their
flock in South American countries or in the Philippines. They are
only good in living off the downtrodden masses giving them promises of
heaven etc.

Black smoke or white smoke, it is a big smoke-out!

[rst0]

On Mar 14, 12:13 am, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 14, 12:19 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:> On Mar 13, 8:54 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 14, 11:45 am, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> .> > Was the pigtail....all that is to the whole of Chinese
> civilization...
>
> .> For the Chinese, it was a sign of obedience to the Manchu way, a
> .> Manchu ruler of China.
>
> SO...So...what is the big deal about the
> pigtail.

The big deal was " the queue was a sign of submission to the Manchu's
will".
Norachi, the man who ordered the shaved head and queue said:

"Lose the hair or lose the head"
Anyone without the shaved head and queue was beheaded.
after the first order was ignored by the Chinese people.

> You did not answer the question.

I answered your question many times, but you refused to see the
importance of the message.

>
> Was the pigtail...the only thing about Chinese
> civilization...the most significant thing about
> Chinese civilization ?  Nothing else matters !!!

The shaved head and queue were the sign of Chinese submission to the
Manchu rulers.
The shaved head and queue were the Manchu ways of life. The Chinese
must adopt to Manchu way of life.
During the Qing Dynasty, China was Manchu, NOT China in any way. So
China can never claim the Qing
Dynasty as China.

>
> > Yes, it was a symbol of submission to the Manchu.
>
> So... It is the symbol of submission to the Manchu
> emperor... the Chinese peasants had been submissive
> to all their emperors...not only the Manshu emperor.
> BUT is the pigtail STILL  the symbol of submission
> to the Manchus...

It definitely and clearly was. If you don't see the point, then you
are completely clueless.

> or Is the Manchu people being absorbed by Chinese
> culture ?

Well, this is another mistaken Chinese conclusion.
The Manchu people were NOT absorbed by Chinese culture.
The Manchu forced their culture on the Chinese people.
And the shaved head and queue were completely
Manchu ways and Manchu culture, NOT at all Chinese culture.
If you don't see the point, then you are completely clueless.

>
> Let me  put it in a simpler way:
>
> Are you saying ...the Negros are still slaves in
> the USA ...just because they were once slaves.

Today, If you are a Black-American, many many Black-Americans will
tell you, yes, once a slave, always a slave.
Many have attained fame and money. Those are few. Many many black-
Americans rob and steal, kill and destroy whenever they can. Many
many Black Americans are in the bottom ranks of American society.

>
> Let me tell you...what is more shameful than
> being submissive to the Manchu emperor.

Spoken like a true defeated and clueless classless nobody.
You have absolutely no shame in you.

>
> For a time...China was much worse than just
> wearing the pigtail..

Well, I have said many many times, China was a land of hunger and
starvation for thousands of years.
Chinese people had eaten human flesh up to the end of WWII. Nothing
can be worse than China had endured for thousands of years.

When Chinese people saw human beings pulling a huge boat up-river by
using hundreds of Chinese coolies,
you people think that was beautiful. That was the bottom of human
understanding of what life is all about, of what life misery is, and
the meaning of life itself.

>.the Chinese were known
> as the "Sick man of Asia."..

You certainly don't think that was bad.

> They were treated
> worse than dogs...

And you still don't recognize the meaning of life itself?

> in certain places in Shanghai
> there were prominent signs...telling the Chinese
> people.."Dogs and Chinese NOT ALLOWED here"

And it still didn't give you food for thought?

>
> Fortunately, this shame, this dark charter of Chinese
> history did not live on for ever....

It is food for thought for many generations to come.

> The Chinese people
> is no longer  treated worse than dogs in China...
> Chinese cut their  the pig tail when the Manchu
> empire fall in 1911.
>
> The Chinese has risen again from the ashes...

But you didn't recognize the ashes when you see them.

Still, you have not recognize the shame when you see it.

[baldeagle]

Well...mare garbage from you.
Sorry I will not waste my time dealing with garbage.

[rst9]

Still, you have not recognized the shame when you see it.
but continue to call it "treasure and Chinese culture".

[baldeagle]

Did I ???!!!
Did I call the shame, the shame of being branded the
sick man of Asia...the "treasure and Chinese Culture" ?

This is the type of garbage you dish out nowadays...
I believe...you are getting senile ?

[rst0]

The "sick man of Asia" has been used by news media over and over
again.
It's a term everyone knows.

But calling the "shaved forehead and queue" Chinese culture is beyond
ignorance.
It was Manchu culture and Manchu tradition forced upon the Chinese
people by Norachi.

>.the "treasure and Chinese Culture" ?
>
> This is the type of garbage you dish out nowadays...
> I believe...you are getting senile ?

It is NOT I that is senile. It is you who is ignorant of Chinese
history.

[Wu Song]

Rst9. are these not your insults and personal attacks on others?.



"rst9" wrote in message
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