Wall St. Journal one-sided ltr. to editor
Dan Butler
Did anyone see the Letter to the Editor from Jonathan Stevenson in the
January, 22 issue of the Wall Street Journal? It is too long for me to
retype the entire article but I quote:
" Mr. Warren (who evidently wrote a letter in the 12/31/97 issue)
celebrates the July 1997 cessation ("of the IRA"- my quotes), but
doesn't even mention the cease-fire established by the main pro-British
Protestant terrorists that has been in place for three years."
This guy, Mr. Stevenson, evidently wrote a book called 'We
Wrecked the Place: Contemplating an End to the Northern Irish Troubles'.
Has this guy been living in a cave the past year?! What
pro-British Protestant terrorist ceasefire?
Brendan Heading
In article <34D2D98F...@indiana.edu>, Dan Butler
<danb...@indiana.edu> writes
>Did anyone see the Letter to the Editor from Jonathan Stevenson in the
>January, 22 issue of the Wall Street Journal? It is too long for me to
>retype the entire article but I quote:
>" Mr. Warren (who evidently wrote a letter in the 12/31/97 issue)
>celebrates the July 1997 cessation ("of the IRA"- my quotes), but
>doesn't even mention the cease-fire established by the main pro-British
>Protestant terrorists that has been in place for three years."
> This guy, Mr. Stevenson, evidently wrote a book called 'We
>Wrecked the Place: Contemplating an End to the Northern Irish Troubles'.
There are two Stevensons related to Northern Ireland politics - one who
writes a lot of books, and another who is a liberal middle class SDLP
member who we took a seat from in the last council election. Does it say
which one it is ?
To your point - the IRA ceasefire has been just as fragile as the
loyalist one. Six weeks in to it, a post office worker was shot in a
rural area, and more recently, Direct Action Against Drugs (believed to
be an IRA spin off) have said that they will shoot drug dealers.
--
Brendan Heading - bre...@heading.demon.coDOTuk
(Remove spamguard to reply)
http://www.unite.co.uk/customers/alliance (Alliance Party Home)
(NB Opinions are mine only, and do not represent anyone else)
-=* Future sounds, nylon oxygen and incomprehensible software +=-
Korg DW-8000, ARP Quartet
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov
Greggers
Brendan Heading <bre...@heading.demon.coDOTuk> wrote:
> To your point - the IRA ceasefire has been just as fragile as the
> loyalist one. Six weeks in to it, a post office worker was shot in a
> rural area, and more recently, Direct Action Against Drugs (believed to
> be an IRA spin off) have said that they will shoot drug dealers.
>
> --
That is a disgraceful thing to say loyalists were outshooting the IRA by
eight to one when they were on ceasefire and the IRA were off ceasefire
therefore the punishment shooting comparison is as completely invalid as
the loyalist ceasefire
The recent pan-loyalist death squad campaign that has slain so many of
the victim community is also a bit of a mystery to yourself obviously
Brendan. You fail to mention that loyalists planted more bombs *after*
their ceasefire than before which I think is not the way it is supposed
to work.
The IRA undertook the vast majority of their activities off ceasefire
and the loyalist ceasefire has never existed. The IRA have committed no
sectarian killings in years the loyalists never stopped for a moment.
I hope other NG members can see why the Alliance Party has not exactly
got a reputation for being even handed. This is the way they think in
real life.
Greggers
--
You can't shoot an idea
Gerard Cunningham
Brendan Heading <bre...@heading.demon.coDOTuk> wrote:
>There are two Stevensons related to Northern Ireland politics - one who
>writes a lot of books, and another who is a liberal middle class SDLP
>member who we took a seat from in the last council election. Does it say
>which one it is ?
Not the SDLP one. The writer is identified as "an American writer,
has lived in Belfast for four years. His book on Northern Irish
terrorists, "We Wrecked the Place: Contemplating an End to the
Northern Irish Troubles," was published by the Free Press in 1996."
The letter follows:
The IRA Twist on Ulster History
In his Dec. 31 Letter to the Editor
"British Brutality Resurrected the IRA,"
Richard Patrick Warren recites Northern
Ireland's recent history with sufficient in-
accuracy to reveal that he is simply a con-
sumer of IRA propaganda.
He refers to British force generically
as "the UDR", when the UDR, or Ulster
Defense Regiment, is merely an element
of the British Army whose members are
Northern Ireland natives. Immaterial per-
haps, but indicative of Mr. Warren's dilet-
tantism. More substantially, he breath-
lessly recounts the British army's Bloody
Sunday killings and Protestant terrorist
attacks, yet leaves out IRA atrocities like
the Kingsmills massacre (1976; 10 Protes-
tant mill workers executed at a bogus
checkpoint), the LaMon Hotel bombing
(1978; 12 Protestant patrons incinerated),
the Enniskillen bomb (1987; 11 Protestant
parade spectators killed), and the Shankill
bomb (1993; 10 Protestant restaurant-go-
ers blown up). I could list more, but you
can't afford the column inches.
Mr. Warren celebrates the July (not
August) 1997 cessation, but doesn't even
mention the cease-fire established by the
main pro-British Protestant terrorists
(known as loyalists) that has been in place
for more than three years. He also states
with an air of authority that loyalists "are
responsible for significantly more casual-
ties during the Troubles than any or all re-
publican groups." In fact, the IRA and
other republican groups have outkilled the
loyalist terrorists by a margin of two to one
over the past 28 years; any of a dozen
books contain the statistics.
Most glaring are Mr. Warren's omis-
sions. He conveniently overlooks the fact
that Northern Ireland's majority is Protes-
tant and pro-British, and the fact that the
majority of its Catholics, though in favour of
Irish Unity, are vehemently opposed to IRA
violence as a means of attaining it. He
does not bother to note that in the 25 years
since London assumed direct rule of the
province, northern Catholics have enjoyed
the best public housing in Western Europe
and perhaps the most aggressive fair em-
ployment administration anywhere in the world
outside the United States.
Why would Mr. Warren leave out these
key facts? Most likely because he has been
spoon-fed his history by Irish Republicans.
Why then, would they suppress the truth
about Northern Ireland? Because it shows
that while they once may have had ground-
level reasons to resist majority rule with
violence there, those reasons no longer ex-
ist. The conflict is now about historical
vanity.
Perhaps the most offensive aspect of
Mr. Warren's letter is its suggestion that
all 40 million Iriah-Americans share his
sympathy with the IRA. Not all of them are
that suggestible.
JONATHAN STEVENSON
Unfortunately, some genius decided to do some spring cleaning on New
Years Day, [:)] so I don't have the letter he refers to from 12/31-97.
-----
Gerard Cunningham abardubh at wwa dot com
http://www.wwa.com/~abardubh/
"For a guide to what's really going on" -s.c.i. FAQ
Greggers
Gerard Cunningham <Ger@r.d> wrote:
> Brendan Heading <bre...@heading.demon.coDOTuk> wrote:
>
> >There are two Stevensons related to Northern Ireland politics - one who
> >writes a lot of books, and another who is a liberal middle class SDLP
> >member who we took a seat from in the last council election. Does it say
> >which one it is ?
>
> Not the SDLP one. The writer is identified as "an American writer,
> has lived in Belfast for four years. His book on Northern Irish
> terrorists, "We Wrecked the Place: Contemplating an End to the
> Northern Irish Troubles," was published by the Free Press in 1996."
>
> The letter follows:
>
> The IRA Twist on Ulster History
Six County History, Ulster is *not* pro-British.
>
> In his Dec. 31 Letter to the Editor
> "British Brutality Resurrected the IRA,"
> Richard Patrick Warren recites Northern
> Ireland's recent history with sufficient in-
> accuracy to reveal that he is simply a con-
> sumer of IRA propaganda.
No the Brits are and were brutal, take it from me, I was tortured by
their mono-religioned sectarian police force and an eyewitness to a
slaughter of innocents by the British Army in Ballymurphy, they murdered
anything that moved and a few things that didn't if you count shooting
the wounded.
>
> He refers to British force generically
> as "the UDR", when the UDR, or Ulster
> Defense Regiment, is merely an element
> of the British Army whose members are
> Northern Ireland natives. Immaterial per-
> haps, but indicative of Mr. Warren's dilet-
> tantism. More substantially, he breath-
> lessly recounts the British army's Bloody
> Sunday killings and Protestant terrorist
> attacks, yet leaves out IRA atrocities like
> the Kingsmills massacre (1976;
>10 Protes-
> tant mill workers executed at a bogus
> checkpoint),
Unquestionably would not have happened but for the blatant collusion
between British Military and police and the death squads in what was an
intimate and longserving relationship in the area. It was an act of
desperation and stands on it's own.
The regional IRA action at Kingsmills was a conventional reaction to a
ongoing threat, sectarian immoral and unforgivable but inevitable and a
direct consequence of actions directed at the catholic community who
were undergoing a sectarian slaughter by a multiplicity of agencies
working together and alone.
Killers within the ranks section in Martin Dillons book Dirty War gives
a good insight into the rampant collusion and the dynamics affecting
this region,
>the LaMon Hotel bombing
> (1978; 12 Protestant patrons incinerated),
La Mon was an attack on a dance hall, restaurant and Hotel set in the
Castlereagh Hills it was one of 600 bombing operations in the winter
months of 77/78 using a new blast incendiary device developed by the
Republican military 12 people were killed including a police man and
others were badly hurt it was the 2nd worst incident of it's type since
the Loyalist McGurks bombing it was a disaster for the Republican
movement who were deprived of the use of this weapon by criticism from
within their community in the 10 weeks after the device only 12 more
devices were used the campaign had stopped. Given the massive scale of
the Republican campaign La Mons stands out as an exception in that it
featured substantial loss of life.
> the Enniskillen bomb (1987; 11 Protestant
> parade spectators killed),
Was in my opinion a sectarian atrocity by the IRA. One of several that
combines paint a gloomy picture of a leadership fairly indifferent to
wayward actions so long as the ASU concerned is otherwise "busy". It was
a disgraceful operation.
> and the Shankill
> bomb (1993; 10 Protestant restaurant-go-
> ers blown up). I could list more, but you
> can't afford the column inches.
Was an attack on the UDA death squad office the bomb exploded
prematurely it was not a sectarian action and no different to other
operations carried out by the IRA.
>
> Mr. Warren celebrates the July (not
> August) 1997 cessation, but doesn't even
> mention the cease-fire established by the
> main pro-British Protestant terrorists
> (known as loyalists) that has been in place
> for more than three years. He also states
> with an air of authority that loyalists "are
> responsible for significantly more casual-
> ties during the Troubles than any or all re-
> publican groups." In fact, the IRA and
> other republican groups have outkilled the
> loyalist terrorists by a margin of two to one
> over the past 28 years; any of a dozen
> books contain the statistics.
However the Death squads have massively out killed the IRA in respect to
uninvolved civilians and kill exclusively on the basis of the catholic
faith. The primary victims of the war were the Crown forces with over a
thousand dead and innocent catholics largely killed by the death squads
but also targeted by the British military in a series of massacres and
random sectarian killings to break the will of the victim community to
resist the tyranny being imposed by the Brit military for the Orange
Sectarian Junta still very much in charge.
>
> Most glaring are Mr. Warren's omis-
> sions. He conveniently overlooks the fact
> that Northern Ireland's majority is Protes-
> tant and pro-British, and the fact that the
> majority of its Catholics, though in favour of
> Irish Unity, are vehemently opposed to IRA
> violence as a means of attaining it. He
> does not bother to note that in the 25 years
> since London assumed direct rule of the
> province, northern Catholics have enjoyed
> the best public housing in Western Europe
> and perhaps the most aggressive fair em-
> ployment administration anywhere in the world
> outside the United States.
We are still savagely persecuted by Orangists and made the victims of
death squad campaigns and the structural discrimination is still
entirely intact after thirty years warfare. In addition newer and more
subtle forms of discrimination are being invented such as the
increasingly sectarian methodologies of the Alliance Party in Belfast
City Hall which has grave implications in respect to any new "Stormont"
the peace process may seek to invent or re-instate.
>
> Why would Mr. Warren leave out these
> key facts? Most likely because he has been
> spoon-fed his history by Irish Republicans.
He's the opposite of yourself then.
>
> Why then, would they suppress the truth
> about Northern Ireland? Because it shows
> that while they once may have had ground-
> level reasons to resist majority rule with
> violence there, those reasons no longer ex-
> ist. The conflict is now about historical
> vanity.
Dream on, send Gareth a signed book.
>
> Perhaps the most offensive aspect of
> Mr. Warren's letter is its suggestion that
> all 40 million Iriah-Americans share his
> sympathy with the IRA. Not all of them are
> that suggestible.
> JONATHAN STEVENSON
Yes indeed a pro-brit propagandist.
>
> Unfortunately, some genius decided to do some spring cleaning on New
> Years Day, [:)] so I don't have the letter he refers to from 12/31-97.
>
>
> -----
> Gerard Cunningham abardubh at wwa dot com
> http://www.wwa.com/~abardubh/
> "For a guide to what's really going on" -s.c.i. FAQ
A good fella is Cunningham for posting that in.
Greggers
--
You Can't Put Your Arms Around A Memory
Greggers
Gerard Cunningham <Ger@r.d> wrote:
> JONATHAN STEVENSON
>
> Unfortunately, some genius decided to do some spring cleaning on New
> Years Day, [:)] so I don't have the letter he refers to from 12/31-97.
>
>
> -----
> Gerard Cunningham abardubh at wwa dot com
> http://www.wwa.com/~abardubh/
> "For a guide to what's really going on" -s.c.i. FAQ
Gareths Bible:) Do your own statistics is my advice.
Greggers
--
God love ya, you silly saxon sausage
Greggers
Alan D Red <char...@dnet.co.uk> wrote:
> ta...@nildram.co.uk (Greggers) wrote:
>
> >Who gives a fuck whether you're pissed off or not. The issue is simple
> >all the sectarian victims in the last few years have been catholic as
> >per my post. My worst interests are as likely to happen as not, so I
> >don't care.
>
> >>your best interests
>
> >Not bothered.
>
> >Greggers
>
> >--
> >You can't shoot an idea
>
>
> Oh yes you do give a fuck. You cant be serious
> when you say all sect victims were catholic.
>
> You are simply a silly cunt in the eyes of the
> reasonable
> ###########
>
> '' the Golden Child''
I am genuinely unaware of a protestant being killed in years as a
consequence of sectarian intent, i was totalling them up back to 1990,
and there have been IPLO/INLA and indeed IRA maybe since then but surely
not since the first IRA ceasefire, if you know of some post, but I can't
recall any and I haven't bumped into any on PA/RUC/NIO or HMSO stuff to
hand. I'm compiling a list at the moment of protestants killed during
the thing and also brits and aussies etc.
I think the only civvies in fact were at Canary Wharf. The Lisburn bomb
almosted added fifty or sixty but fortunately didn't though a soldier
was killed obviously. I really can't place any. I'll be putting them on
a web page for the entire war/troubles plus the 1920s and 1935 things in
anycase, I'm not interested in obfuscation on this, they were killed or
they were not there is no point at all telling lies.
I think the University of Ulster might have a polarisation thing as
protestants drift this side of the Bann and towards the Urban centres
which is also a feature of the war. The more people that do it the
better as ultimately researchers will pick the best sources themselves.
I am sympathetic to a reappraisal of sectarian motivation on a regional
basis for the IRA but other than the 76/75 period there is not much to
work on, the sad truth is that *all* sides were equally careless.
In fact there is an argument that *any* sectarian killing has a larger
demographic effect on Protestants as catholics are used to alienation
and the notion of a hostile environment whereas it is a culture shock
for protestants to see the abolition of the specials, the withdrawal of
brits to bunkers etc. I am making a better job tagging together outrages
against protestants in the South than the pro-union elements who just
squirt out propaganda that is mostly shite, and therefore not history. I
am thorough.
Greggers
--
A beautiful woman is the hell of the soul, the purgatory of the purse,
and the paradise of the eyes
- Fontenelle.