Who Wants a United Ireland?
David Craig
From 1968 to date about 3600 people have died in the terrorist war
aimed at forcing a United Ireland.The vast majority (almost 60%) of
those killed have been murdered by Sinn Fein/IRA.
The "war" was waged basically because Nationalists could not and can
not persuade Unionists of the benefits of a United Ireland. Perhaps
the time has come for nationalists to accept that there are no
benefits to Unionists in a United Ireland.
I have three simple questions for those who advocate a United Ireland.
1 What benefit would there be for northern nationalists in a United
Ireland?
2. What would a northern nationalist get in a United Ireland that he
hasnt got now.
3. How would Soutern Irish people benefit from a United Ireland.
Whenever these questions are answered, one can then ask what benefit
wouild accrue to unionists in a United Ireland?
CONCERNED ULSTERNMAN
michael adams
"David Craig" <DavidCr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4013c711...@news.tiscali.co.uk...
> Who Wants a United Ireland?
>
> CONCERNED ULSTERNMAN
So it's the old
"Ultsern will fight and Ulstern will be right,"
then is it David ?
In answer to your question, presumably the majority in both
communities on both sides of the border who may [or may not]
eventually vote for it under the terms of the Good Friday
Agreement.
Who else did you expect would want a United Ireland ?
Fijians, Inuits, Kalahari Bushmen perhaps ?
michael adams
...
Gummo
particular priority:
1. Not having to tell people we're from Norn Iron.
2. One less word in the nation's title
3. Not having to worry about the cunfusion up North.
Gummo
"David Craig" <DavidCr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4013c711...@news.tiscali.co.uk...
hmhawktoo
news:4013c711...@news.tiscali.co.uk:
> Who Wants a United Ireland?
>
> From 1968 to date about 3600 people have died in the terrorist war
> aimed at forcing a United Ireland.The vast majority (almost 60%) of
> those killed have been murdered by Sinn Fein/IRA.
"The vast majority...." 60%. Origins of your figures and those right up to
date.
>
> The "war" was waged basically because Nationalists could not and can
> not persuade Unionists of the benefits of a United Ireland.
The "war" was waged historically as a reaction to the unionist regime which
systematically terrorised the Irish population.
Perhaps
> the time has come for nationalists to accept that there are no
> benefits to Unionists in a United Ireland.
Unfortunately for you that day will never come and the time is already here
when the british on our island are accepting the fact that a united Ireland
is as inevitable as the sunrise.
>
> I have three simple questions for those who advocate a United Ireland.
>
> 1 What benefit would there be for northern nationalists in a United
> Ireland?
A free open and honest public sector housing policy. A free open and honest
policing structure. Equality in law and in justice and the ability to
prosecute those who wish to perpetuate a quasi fascist regime. The ability
to scour our country of extreme right wing fanatics who enjoy the
protection of their own legal system and paramilitary police. The return to
honest politics of left and right without the perpetual confusion prevalent
in the north east. The release of all those people of both "communities"
trapped by the divide of the regime into their chosen place in a proper
democracy. I could go on but my wee fingers are sore.
>
> 2. What would a northern nationalist get in a United Ireland that he
> hasnt got now.
The ability to live their lives free from terror with a proper democracy
inclusive of the rights accepted by all democracies for their citizens. See
above.
>
> 3. How would Soutern Irish people benefit from a United Ireland.
As above and utilising the talents of the british population in Ireland
which are abundant. A release from the divisiveness of the current
situation which has protected psychopathic gangs willing to torture maim
and destroy for the sake of it - and to release their psychopathic
tendencies. A united country which will prove much more dynamic in all
fields including economics, politics, sport and much much more.
>
> Whenever these questions are answered, one can then ask what benefit
> wouild accrue to unionists in a United Ireland?
None as unionism currently bends under the burden of somehow believing they
are in an advantageous position. Unionism must be tackled comprehensively
to bring it to the point where it understands and appreciates the horrors
it has wrought and accepts responsibility for them. That time is near and
the benefits will be nil when it is reached. Unionism will pour all it's
venom into bloody rampage which will be put down. Only when they realise
that they aren't in some convoluted fashion the "chosen people of God" and
are no more than an over protected minority will the truth slowly dawn. A
horrific scenario for all but one which we all, in the not too distant
future, will have to face. May I be the first to welcome you into our new
united and free democracy.
Kenn Gordon
get your facts right before you spout
also in the last 10 years the majority of those killed and maimed have been
by the uda and other loyalist terror groups
"David Craig" <DavidCr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4013c711...@news.tiscali.co.uk...
albert ross
"Midwinter" <solst...@TAKEYOURSPAMANDhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns947B9AC8EBAF6so...@217.32.252.50...
> Surely if a state does not consider it necessary to resort to
> military action, then any of its citizens who do so 'off their own bat'
> are simply criminals and should not be afforded the merit of soldiers.
>
> These people were not interested in Ireland - they were interested in
> killing people they hated.
>
That's simply no way to speak of Sir Edward Carson, Sir James Craig
and the Loyal men of the Ulster Volunteer Force. If they hadn't acted
as they did, The Home Rule Bill of 1913 would have been enacted; and
the whole of Ireland would have been ruled by Nationalists, Catholics
most of them, from the Parliament House in Dublin. There are times when
all men of honour have to answer the call; and if necesary to take up
arms in defiance of the British Crown and the Westminster Parliament
if needs be; when their fundamental rights are being threatened. How
dare you besmirch their good name in this way!
Albert
> --
> Midwinter
O'Kiwi
wrote:
>Who Wants a United Ireland?
I do and so do the members of the political party of which I am a
member.
Nik
Roberto (aka bfb)
news:vgf810lp54nhj1r0q...@4ax.com...
I do. And I think my dogs agree!!
Bob
O'Kiwi
<solst...@TAKEYOURSPAMANDhotmail.com> wrote:
>DavidCr...@aol.com (David Craig) wrote:
>
>> From 1968 to date about 3600 people have died in the terrorist war
>> aimed at forcing a United Ireland.The vast majority (almost 60%) of
>> those killed have been murdered by Sinn Fein/IRA.
>>
>> The "war" was waged basically because Nationalists could not and can
>> not persuade Unionists of the benefits of a United Ireland.
>
>
>Strange that whilst these murderers proclaimed their righteous cause,
>Ireland itself did not engage the UK in a war to recapture Northern
>Ireland.
Not at all strange. Ireland fully realised that an open military
confrontation wouldn't bear the fruit they were looking for i.e.
Britain would use its superior military strength to crush Ireland, as
it has in past, and its troops are still there flouting Britain's
power.
> Surely if a state does not consider it necessary to resort to
>military action, then any of its citizens who do so 'off their own bat' are
>simply criminals
No. They're dissenters.
> and should not be afforded the merit of soldiers.
You'd like that wouldn't you?
Ask yourself this question, would the IRA have ever even come into
existence if Britain hadn't invaded and stayed in Ireland?
>These people were not interested in Ireland - they were interested in
>killing people they hated.
Your postulations about the inner mental states of Irish Volunteers
are just that...postulations.
Believing what you want to believe is no guarantee that you're
believing what is actually true.
Nik
O'Kiwi
He wants to see it that way....it makes him, Britain and the Ulster
Unionists right...but he neglects to mention that it was Britain that
invaded Ireland and killed far far more than the 3200 (approx) of the
last 35 years...
Nik
Dr. Sunil
Falcon
news:9bab4539.04012...@posting.google.com...
> The people living in the green areas of these maps?
>
> http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm
What - all of them? Well that's sorted then.
-------
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
War is Peace:
Freedom is Slavery:
Ignorance is Strength.
-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.
Kenn Gordon
"Dr. Sunil" <dr_suni...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9bab4539.04012...@posting.google.com...
Dr. Sunil
> "Dr. Sunil" <dr_suni...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:9bab4539.04012...@posting.google.com...
> > The people living in the green areas of these maps?
> >
> > http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm
>
> What - all of them?
Did you notice the question mark above?
O'Kiwi
Trevor Clarke
south it shouls be big enought to hold you all and let us ulster btitish
people live in peace and those who dont are welcome to stay and join us
"hmhawktoo" <NOS...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:bv0kea$mno8h$1...@ID-111931.news.uni-berlin.de...
Trevor Clarke
northern ireland that i belong to want it either
KEEP ULSTER BRITISH
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:vdSdnVcZHrG...@adelphia.com...
Kenn Gordon
let me assist you with your mistakes
"Trevor Clarke" <tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bv8g10$828$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> if all the peop;e (People)
what(perhaps want is the word you were looking for here?) a (capital U
as in a state) united (Capital I as in a Name)
ireland then pack (your is a sure is the correct spelling) uyour
bags and head off
> south it shouls (again should would sound better but perhaps it just
some old drunk talking?) be big enought to hold you all and let us
(again Ulster is a place name and under the rules of the English Language it
should have a capital to start) ulster btitish (British but B Tit
ish sounds better to me also)
> people live in peace ( those would be the same people that have been
responable for over 300 bombs in BELFAST ALONE last year??? and those who
dont are welcome to stay and join us (wow that is so nice of you to ley us
Irish stay in Ireland)
Tá ar la ánoís
:)
would you like it in Gaelic now as well laddie?
as you dont appear to even have a rudimentary grasp on the language that you
claim birth right to lol
Slán mó á chár
Kenn Gordon
> i dont want a united ireland neither does the largest unionist party in
> northern ireland that i belong to want it either
previous post
Tá ár lá ánoís
Cat
"Kenn Gordon" <kenn_...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>as opposed to a iliterate trevor from ?????
>let me assist you with your mistakes
>
>"Trevor Clarke" <tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:bv8g10$828$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> if all the peop;e (People)
>what(perhaps want is the word you were looking for here?) a (capital
U
>as in a state) united (Capital I as in a Name)
>ireland then pack (your is a sure is the correct spelling) uyour
>bags and head off
>> south it shouls (again should would sound better but perhaps it just
>some old drunk talking?) be big enought
(you missed this one, Kenn)
>to hold you all and let us
>(again Ulster is a place name and under the rules of the English Language
it
>should have a capital to start) ulster btitish (British but B
Tit
>ish sounds better to me also)
>> people live in peace ( those would be the same people that have been
>responable for over 300 bombs in BELFAST ALONE last year??? and those who
^^^^^^^^^
>dont are welcome to stay and join us (wow that is so nice of you to ley
us
^^^^
>Irish stay in Ireland)
>Tá ar la ánoís
>:)
>would you like it in Gaelic now as well laddie?
>as you dont appear to even have a rudimentary grasp on the language that
you
>claim birth right to lol
>Slán mó á chár
Let he who will cast the first orthographic stone first invest in a spellchecker
;-)
(Sorry, I couldn't help it)
Cat(h) (I too was about to suggest to the charming Trevor that a United Ireland
might work wonders for his literacy)
--
[Posted at boards.ie]
http://www.boards.ie/
Ireland's Bulletin Boards, News Groups, Chat Rooms
After Hours - Games - Technology - Work - For Sale
Trevor Clarke
provos have killed and injured and not only protestant people they have
killed and injured roman catholics and even some of them they cant let the
families have there bodies to give them human burials and this is the people
you relate.
We still have the largest vote in Northern Ireland and democracy still works
here.
"Kenn Gordon" <kenn_...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:IVPRb.515$SJ1.2...@newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net...
Roberto (aka bfb)
> Maybe there were 300 bombs in belfast but what about all the people the
> provos have killed and injured and not only protestant people they have
> killed and injured roman catholics and even some of them they cant let the
> families have there bodies to give them human burials and this is the
people
> you relate.
> We still have the largest vote in Northern Ireland and democracy still
works
> here.
You're still guilty of receiving stolen property.
Bob
Fr. Des
If by that you mean N.I. was stolen, this is no more helpful that pointing
out that so was N.America (from the people who were there before you).
Neither statement helps anything. N.I. is complicated enough as it is without
the Darby O'Gill school of Irish political knowledge.
Jaden
> You're still guilty of receiving stolen property.
>
> Bob
>
Three words: "Native American Indians".
To say that this guy is guilty of recieving stolen property, is to admit any
American has done the same.
The whole "crimes of the father" thing doesn't do anyone any good.
Trevor Clarke
than you had
REM1690
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:7MCdnbs1Xrk...@adelphia.com...
Fr. Des
"Trevor Clarke" <tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>Dont think we are guilty we just had a bigger and better army on the day
>than you had
>REM1690
>
No you didn't, you were not there and neither was he.
If you wish to have any kind of s decent and normal society in N.I. you should
try to focus on what happened last 4 days ago rather than 400 years ago.
Otherwise you are doomed to live this ridiculous nonesense for the rest of
your life and so are your children. 1690 my arse.
>"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
>news:7MCdnbs1Xrk...@adelphia.com...
>> "Trevor Clarke" <tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:bv8op4$j0p$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> > Maybe there were 300 bombs in belfast but what about all the people
the
>> > provos have killed and injured and not only protestant people they have
>> > killed and injured roman catholics and even some of them they cant let
>the
>> > families have there bodies to give them human burials and this is the
>> people
>> > you relate.
>> > We still have the largest vote in Northern Ireland and democracy still
>> works
>> > here.
>>
>> You're still guilty of receiving stolen property.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>
>
Roberto (aka bfb)
news:4017e964$1...@news.boards.ie...
O'Kiwi
<tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>if all the peop;e what a united ireland then pack uyour bags and head off
>south it shouls be big enought to hold you all and let us ulster btitish
>people live in peace and those who dont are welcome to stay and join us
That wouldn't be a United Ireland now though would it?
Nik
Roberto (aka bfb)
>
> > You're still guilty of receiving stolen property.
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
>
> To say that this guy is guilty of recieving stolen property, is to admit
any
> American has done the same.
> The whole "crimes of the father" thing doesn't do anyone any good.
>
>
"Native American Indians" every time your stuck for an answer? How do
Indians in America relate to NI? Please stay on topic and keep it under 1000
lines, me being dumb and everything.
Bob
O'Kiwi
<tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>Maybe there were 300 bombs in belfast but what about all the people the
>provos have killed and injured and not only protestant people they have
>killed and injured roman catholics and even some of them they cant let the
>families have there bodies to give them human burials and this is the people
>you relate.
Whataboutery raises its head...
Trevor, being morbid here, the death toll over the whole contested
history of Ireland, in terms of that caused directly by forces loyal
to Britain is FAR FAR bigger than the deaths caused by forces loyal to
Ireland. Cromwell's killtote will never be surpassed by any Irish
Paramilitary so please, shut the fuck up about that.
>We still have the largest vote in Northern Ireland and democracy still works
>here.
Tell me, and tell me honestly, if a democratic majority in the six
counties votes for a United Ireland, will you accept that result?
Nik
O'Kiwi
<tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>Dont think we are guilty we just had a bigger and better army on the day
>than you had
>REM1690
Then you can't blame the 'defeated' people for continuing to fight
back then can you?
Should we all roll over and be conquered?
Nik
O'Kiwi
<tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>i dont want a united ireland neither does the largest unionist party in
>northern ireland that i belong to want it either
That, is abundantly clear. Tell me though, will you accept the result
of an election in the six counties that mandates a United Ireland?
>KEEP ULSTER BRITISH
Ulster is in Ireland. Ulster is therefore Irish.
Nik
Fr. Des
"Roberto \(aka bfb\)" <_@-._> wrote:
The point is that she was NOT stuck for an answer.
That is the answer.
The reason it is so automatic is that you often get Americans
posting to SCI who do not know much about the place who say something
like what you said. This is a regular occurence and the usual reply
is the one you got. It does not get anyone anywhere to say protestants
stole N.I.
Roberto (aka bfb)
crap is removed. It does not get anyone anywhere to say Americans stole
America.
Jaden
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:HrudnUhaL_P...@adelphia.com...
Jasus Bob, no need to be shitty. I was making a point, not riding yer
daughter bareback. I will certainly explain it for you, and it won't take a
1000 words, so the attention-span-of-a-drag-race issue won't surface.
You feel that prodestants "stole" part of Ireland from the Irish. You feel
that present day prodestants, are in part responsible for this crime. Hence
the statement, "You're still guilty of receiving stolen property."
Am I right? Are you still with me up to this point?
Now, let's see how this relates to the situation that existed between
European settlers, and the native American population. (I would have thought
this to be obvious, but hey). We'll do it in point form for clarity:
The Nothern Irish, like the Indians, were native to a their respective
lands. (No nit picking here!). - You agree?
Both were displaced from their land by a more powerful force, using superior
millitary strength. - You agree?
Both feel that their homeland had been stolen by colonial invaders. - You
agree?
Now, if we're still singing off the same sheet here, then you will agree
that labeling a Nothern Irish Prodestant as an invader who has "stolen
property", is a little rich, given that any American citizen could be
labeled the same way, for previous actions towards the native American
population.
No?
Cat
Well, now, we're back to your first point:
"You're still guilty of receiving stolen property" This comment "does not
get anyone anywhere" either, whether you apply it to present-day Merkins
of European descent re. Native Merkins, or to Northern Irish Unionists re.
Republican Nordies.
Are you starting to see the light at the end of that very very long tunnel?
Cat(h)
Roberto (aka bfb)
>
>
>
> "Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
> news:HrudnUhaL_P...@adelphia.com...
> > "Jaden" <sp...@bmr.ie> wrote in message
> news:bv8psl$2jm$1...@kermit.esat.net...
> > >
> > > > You're still guilty of receiving stolen property.
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > >
> > > Three words:.
> > >
> > > To say that this guy is guilty of recieving stolen property, is to
admit
> > any
> > > American has done the same.
> > > The whole "crimes of the father" thing doesn't do anyone any good.
> > >
> > >
> > Do they have a course over there that teaches you poor things to say
> > "Native American Indians" every time your stuck for an answer? How do
> > Indians in America relate to NI? Please stay on topic and keep it under
> 1000
> > lines, me being dumb and everything.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Jasus Bob, no need to be shitty. I was making a point, not riding yer
> daughter bareback. I will certainly explain it for you, and it won't take
a
> 1000 words, so the attention-span-of-a-drag-race issue won't surface.
I wasn't being shitty. Your far to sensitive.
> You feel that prodestants "stole" part of Ireland from the Irish. You feel
> that present day prodestants, are in part responsible for this crime.
Hence
> the statement, "You're still guilty of receiving stolen property."
>
> Am I right? Are you still with me up to this point?
I see the British government as STILL commiting the crime. STILL turning a
blind eye to Catholic killings, beating etc. And those Ulster Scots who are
STILL rubbing their undeserving place in Ireland in those people who DESERVE
to have , at least, equal rights.
> Now, let's see how this relates to the situation that existed between
> European settlers, and the native American population. (I would have
thought
> this to be obvious, but hey). We'll do it in point form for clarity:
>
> The Nothern Irish, like the Indians, were native to a their respective
> lands. (No nit picking here!). - You agree?
>
> Both were displaced from their land by a more powerful force, using
superior
> millitary strength. - You agree?
>
> Both feel that their homeland had been stolen by colonial invaders. - You
> agree?
>
> Now, if we're still singing off the same sheet here, then you will agree
> that labeling a Nothern Irish Prodestant as an invader who has "stolen
> property", is a little rich, given that any American citizen could be
> labeled the same way, for previous actions towards the native American
> population.
>
> No?
>
Absolutely not. Americans here TODAY had nothing to do with whatever
happened back in time. The only real tie to the Indian situation at that
time is that any Celtic involvement was by Ulster Scots.
Today the American people are doing more and more to help the Indians be
successful. The gambling business alone is allowing them hundreds of
millions of dollars to better themselves. They have equal rights TODAY, then
can aspire to a great success in life if they want. Scholarships and many
other benefits are available to motivated Native Americans TODAY. If that is
the situation in NI then enlighten me on the British Empire's beneficial
programs for the indigenous Irish people they have under their boot. There
is nothing in common with how Native Americans are treated my America and
how Native Irish are treated by the British Empire (what's left of it)
TODAY. None.
Bob
Gummo
friends; you can have Ireland - it's too near Britain. We shoving off to
found New Ireland in France.
Gummo
"Trevor Clarke" <tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bv8g10$828$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Roberto (aka bfb)
news:2ZURb.12680$JL4.1...@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> I'm thinking more of leaving Ireland altogether with all my Nationalist
> friends; you can have Ireland - it's too near Britain. We shoving off to
> found New Ireland in France.
>
> Gummo
>
do with Francanistan's financial dealings in that area.
Bob
Harry Merrick
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:24:08 -0000, "Trevor Clarke"
> <tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >i dont want a united ireland neither does the largest unionist party in
> >northern ireland that i belong to want it either
>
> That, is abundantly clear. Tell me though, will you accept the result
> of an election in the six counties that mandates a United Ireland?
No, probably not. Who wants to live in a Banana Republic with no proper
Health, Social and School services?
>
> >KEEP ULSTER BRITISH
>
> Ulster is in Ireland. Ulster is therefore Irish.
Due to the accident Geologically of where she is, Ulster is "part" of the
island called Ireland. Politically she is British and *belongs* to the
United Kingdom of Great Britain. Ireland, of course, also belongs to the
archipelago of islands geologically known as The British Isles.
Come on now Nick, where's your logic?
ROTFL.
--
Harry Merrick.
No Problem Can Stand The Assault Of Sustained Thinking.
"Voltaire"
Kenn Gordon
the Republicans were the Trouble makers and terrorists
"Trevor Clarke" <tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bv8op4$j0p$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Kenn Gordon
GB :)
"O'Kiwi" <somethi...@iconz.co.nz> wrote in message
news:9urf10pjpgak70pk3...@4ax.com...
Declan Murphy
> "O'Kiwi" <somethi...@iconz.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:2asf10tgqu2iqefvi...@4ax.com...
>
>>On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:24:08 -0000, "Trevor Clarke"
>><tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>i dont want a united ireland neither does the largest unionist party in
>>>northern ireland that i belong to want it either
>>
>>That, is abundantly clear. Tell me though, will you accept the result
>>of an election in the six counties that mandates a United Ireland?
>
> No, probably not. Who wants to live in a Banana Republic with no proper
> Health, Social and School services?
There are banana plantations in Ireland now? Global warming astounds me,
might be time to consider moving home. Could you also define "proper"
health, social and "school" services too - would help with my preparations.
>>>KEEP ULSTER BRITISH
>>
>>Ulster is in Ireland. Ulster is therefore Irish.
>
> Due to the accident Geologically of where she is, Ulster is "part" of the
> island called Ireland. Politically she is British and *belongs* to the
> United Kingdom of Great Britain. Ireland, of course, also belongs to the
> archipelago of islands geologically known as The British Isles.
Geologically - well yes, though I think you meant to say geographically.
If you are going to be British you may at least do the Queen the honour
of sparing the Queen's language from butchery. As for "Politically she
is British", well even "politically", that is incorrect. More correct
would be to say "Politically, part of Ulster is British" - Cavan,
Donegal and Monaghan don't send MP's to the British House of Commons as
far as I can recall.
> ROTFL.
Doesn't take much to make you laugh duzzit?
Regards Declan,
Okazaki, Japan
--
I am not who I think I am
I am not who you think I am
I am who I think you think I am
...or some such shite.
O'Kiwi
<kenn_...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>agreed and would all those who want to be British go over the Irish sea to
>GB :)
No. They can continue living in Ireland and being British. Have you
not realised the impact of being a member of the European Union or
something?
One can be Greek, Danish, Swedish, Irish, British etc and live in
Ireland, Britain, France, Germany, Denmark etc...
Wake up...this is the 21st Century not the 19th...
Nik
O'Kiwi
<declan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Harry Merrick wrote:
>> "O'Kiwi" <somethi...@iconz.co.nz> wrote in message
>> news:2asf10tgqu2iqefvi...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:24:08 -0000, "Trevor Clarke"
>>><tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>i dont want a united ireland neither does the largest unionist party in
>>>>northern ireland that i belong to want it either
>>>
>>>That, is abundantly clear. Tell me though, will you accept the result
>>>of an election in the six counties that mandates a United Ireland?
>>
>> No, probably not. Who wants to live in a Banana Republic with no proper
>> Health, Social and School services?
>
>There are banana plantations in Ireland now? Global warming astounds me,
>might be time to consider moving home. Could you also define "proper"
>health, social and "school" services too - would help with my preparations.
>
>>>>KEEP ULSTER BRITISH
>>>
>>>Ulster is in Ireland. Ulster is therefore Irish.
>>
>> Due to the accident Geologically of where she is, Ulster is "part" of the
>> island called Ireland.
Indeed all 9 counties of Ulster are indeed part of Ireland.
>> Politically she is British and *belongs* to the
>> United Kingdom of Great Britain.
Why is this?
>> Ireland, of course, also belongs to the
>> archipelago of islands geologically known as The British Isles.
So named by British people...hmmm...the logical fallacy here ought to
be obvious....but not, it would seem to our Harry.
>Geologically - well yes, though I think you meant to say geographically.
>If you are going to be British you may at least do the Queen the honour
>of sparing the Queen's language from butchery.
Ad hominem...a sign that one is losing the argument...
> As for "Politically she is British", well even "politically", that is incorrect. More correct
>would be to say "Politically, part of Ulster is British" - Cavan,
>Donegal and Monaghan don't send MP's to the British House of Commons as
>far as I can recall.
Quite right.
>> ROTFL.
>
>Doesn't take much to make you laugh duzzit?
It would seem not.
Nik
Kevin McCabe
Damn straight. As all right-thinking people know, the Darby O'Gill School
forms the core of the RoI intelligence community and thus has far more
important things on its hands than who stole NI. They are, after all,
charged with safegaurding the safety of Irish Banjo players (no problem
ther, after all, who wants 'em) and the chastity of Irish virgins (again, no
problem because there are so few of them to look after) and (this is the big
job), shoveling out the pubs after various members of SCI have descended on
them for an evenings discussion of Irish Culture (as if there still is such
a thing that remains separate from American Cultural Hegemony). BfB should
really know better than to wander into their turf. While not as dangerous as
the CIA (who would simply kill an offender), the Darby O'Gills are noted for
extreme sophistication in tortue modalities. First and foremost, they will
seek to (and achieve by slow inches) bore you to death by regaling you with
stories of sheep, cows, soccer, Gaelic, Halotypes, the EU, the price of a
Dublin politicians, and their eternal favorite, the Off Topic Tantrum.
Kevin McCabe
Kevin McCabe
"Jaden" <sp...@bmr.ie> wrote in message news:bv8tl3$3rk$1...@kermit.esat.net...
No question we stole it. And, the theft was worse for the frauds involved
(read unilaterally abrogated treaties, here). But, it wasn't all military. A
lot had to with disease (See Crosby's "Environmental Imperialism"),
sometimes knowingly deployed (read gifts of smallpox infested blankets
here), but more often an accident of biology. native Americans are
culturally diverse, but they all share the same blood-type, which made them
far more vulnerable to pandemics imported from Europe.
Kevin McCabe
Fr. Des
It is EXACTLY the same; it is EXACTLY as ignorant; it is EXACTLY as unhelpful.
To paraphrase you:
It does not get anyone anywhere to say that protestants stole N.I.
Fr. Des
"Roberto \(aka bfb\)" <_@-._> wrote:
posters than can I suggest then that you refrain from making grandiose
accustaions or simplistic generalisations about Ireland, N or S.
The remark you made was ignorant and based on a mistaken set of
prejudices (about the british empire and protestants). When you
make remarks like that, you come across as an idiot who has just read
a newspaper article about the place and now thinks he is an expert.
The comparison with the indians stands.
Jochen Lueg
O'Kiwi <somethi...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
> Wake up...this is the 21st Century not the 19th...
But to be allowed to live in Ireland one still must like hurling.
Jochen
--
------------------------------------
If you like to learn about the Roe Valley
and some of its history, look at:
http://www.jochenlueg.freeuk.com
Roberto (aka bfb)
news:nL0Sb.2134$VY1...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
there calmed down?
Bob
Roberto (aka bfb)
> >>
> >Well, I'll take your point under advisement as long as the native
American
> >crap is removed. It does not get anyone anywhere to say Americans stole
> >America.
> >
>
> It is EXACTLY the same; it is EXACTLY as ignorant; it is EXACTLY as
unhelpful.
> To paraphrase you:
> It does not get anyone anywhere to say that protestants stole N.I.
>
Ok, how about the British Empire (what's left of it) stole NI?
Roberto (aka bfb)
>
> "Roberto \(aka bfb\)" <_@-._> wrote:
> >"Jaden" <sp...@bmr.ie> wrote in message
news:bv8tl3$3rk$1...@kermit.esat.net...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
> >> news:HrudnUhaL_P...@adelphia.com...
> >> > "Jaden" <sp...@bmr.ie> wrote in message
> >> news:bv8psl$2jm$1...@kermit.esat.net...
> >> > >
That is your normal 'you don't know crap' response. You have answered none
of my statements about how Native Americans are treated compared to Native
Irishmen today. I'm sorry if the truth is so insulting to you and your
poodles but it still remains the truth.
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
Perhaps a comparison of the life expectancy of both groups could shed some
light on the subject?
Roberto (aka bfb)
news:4019...@news.boards.ie...
American treatment in colonial times compares to Native Irish treatment in
NI today. But by all means have at it.
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
The fact that the NI population has the best civil rights legislation in
Europe today, and the US colonists commited genocide, hardly helps your
point
Fr. Des
"Roberto \(aka bfb\)" <_@-._> wrote:
>
>
>> >>
It does not get anyone anywhere to say that The British Empire (what's left
of it) stole NI.
You really do not get it do you?
Jaden
> That's a tangent moving away from the original point, which was how Native
> American treatment in colonial times compares to Native Irish treatment in
> NI today. But by all means have at it.
It doesn't. However Native American treatment in colonial times does compare
to Native Irish Treatment in the 17th & 18th century. A similar story of
displacement and theft.
It may be a bit unpleasant to contemplate, but every achievement that the
modern United States has had, is built upon theft. Deal with it. Letting the
injuns gamble doesn't compensate, although it may assuage your guilt
slightly. This basic truth has been quietly forgotten, and probably best so.
Roberto (aka bfb)
Fr. Des
Yes; it is usually the most appropriate reply.
You have answered none
>of my statements about how Native Americans are treated compared to Native
>Irishmen today. I'm sorry if the truth is so insulting to you and your
>poodles but it still remains the truth.
>
To compare the two, the situation for catholics was a modest inconveniance
compared to what was done to the indians. I draw your attention to
the fact that we were discussing the past and its irrelevance. If the situation
is so good for indians today (and I do not trust your opinions and selective
facts on hese matters anyway) then that is very nice but a different point.
If you want to do that, then many unionists in N.I. now feel that they
are the ones who are now the victims and catholics are actually running the
place. The latter is a mistaken belief IMHO but there is no comparison
with the Indian situation.
There you go.
Next ignorant remark please.
>
Roberto (aka bfb)
relationship to your own agenda (America bashing).
Roberto (aka bfb)
it. Once again truth gets you off on the road of disinformation.
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
I should have thought it was obvious
Roberto (aka bfb)
Bob your ignorant rant. Haven't made any sense as to the original response I
gave to the 'native American genocide' post . It has nothing to do with
modern day NI. Scrabble around for another hollow, anti American statement
you poodles have been batting around.
Roberto (aka bfb)
Jaden
> Absolute rubbish. And a sorry statement on how you perceive events in
> relationship to your own agenda (America bashing).
>
Translation: "What your saying is crap, simply because I don't want to
acknowledge that there is truth to it. Anything you say that is unflattering
to America is bigoted and America bashing".
Seriously Bob, I'm disappointed with this retort. You get a "D" for effort.
Incidently, I live my life atlittle more positively than to engage in
anything "bashing", much less something as soft a target as America.
However, if the US is full of people like you, I might just take it up as a
hobby. I suspect it isn't, however.
Trevor Clarke
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:42:33 -0000, "Trevor Clarke"
> <tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Maybe there were 300 bombs in belfast but what about all the people the
> >provos have killed and injured and not only protestant people they have
> >killed and injured roman catholics and even some of them they cant let
the
> >families have there bodies to give them human burials and this is the
people
> >you relate.
>
>
> Trevor, being morbid here, the death toll over the whole contested
> history of Ireland, in terms of that caused directly by forces loyal
> to Britain is FAR FAR bigger than the deaths caused by forces loyal to
> Ireland. Cromwell's killtote will never be surpassed by any Irish
> Paramilitary so please, shut the fuck up about that.
>
> >We still have the largest vote in Northern Ireland and democracy still
works
> >here.
>
> counties votes for a United Ireland, will you accept that result?
>
> Nik
Trevor Clarke
"Kenn Gordon" <kenn_...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:WmZRb.2054$GF4...@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
> agreed and would all those who want to be British go over the Irish sea to
> GB :)
>
> > On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:13:09 -0000, "Trevor Clarke"
> > <tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >if all the peop;e what a united ireland then pack uyour bags and head
off
> > >south it shouls be big enought to hold you all and let us ulster
btitish
> > >people live in peace and those who dont are welcome to stay and join us
> >
> > That wouldn't be a United Ireland now though would it?
> >
> > Nik
>
>
Trevor Clarke
"O'Kiwi" <somethi...@iconz.co.nz> wrote in message
news:c31h109mvlch5cq8d...@4ax.com...
Trevor Clarke
"Jochen Lueg" <joche...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:4c785008de...@freeuk.com...
westprog
"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
news:6alf101l3ugk8c9b4...@4ax.com...
> Scríobh "Kenn Gordon" <kenn_...@ntlworld.com>:
> >
> >"Trevor Clarke" <tre...@clarke62.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:bv8gli$47b$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >> i dont want a united ireland neither does the largest unionist party
in
> >> northern ireland that i belong to want it either
> >> KEEP ULSTER BRITISH would that be the same as being B Tit Ish???? see
your
> >previous post
> >Tá ár lá ánoís
> Fadas are not a decorative element to be sprinkled at random.
Máttér óf ópíníón.
C/
SOTW: "Snow White" - Maria Doyle Kennedy
Cat
"Roberto \(aka bfb\)" <_@-._> wrote:
>I understand the situation very well.
Bob, face it, you haven't a clue. You have Irish genes inherited from distant
ancestors. You have bought a postage stamp in Galway and spend a week each
summer being the Merkin tourist with romantic notions of his ancestors' country
in the local pub. I am sure that entertains the locals, but if you think
that makes you an expert on all matters Irish and the problems of Northern
Ireland in particular, then you are an even more pretentious git than you
sound.
In my opinion it's you who don't get
>it. Once again truth gets you off on the road of disinformation.
>
You have professed to come into SCI to learn a little about Ireland. But
when challenged by people, many born and bred in Ireland, many still living
here, as to your preconceived romantic notions, you have found nothing better
to do than insult and dismiss them.
Your obstinate refusal to recognise that, when it comes to blaming today's
citizens for the sins of their ancestors, as little can be gained whether
for the interests of today's Native Americans in the US as for finding a
solution to NI's problems, is merely an indication of how obtuse, blind and
unable of independent analysis you are.
Some of us ignore or killfile you successfully - for those of us who can't
always do so, please do us a tiny courtesy, if however you can stretch that
far:
LEARN TO FUCKING SNIP!!!
Cat(h)
--
[Posted at boards.ie]
http://www.boards.ie/
Ireland's Bulletin Boards, News Groups, Chat Rooms
After Hours - Games - Technology - Work - For Sale
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
Take it whatever way you want. The truth is the truth, regardless
westprog
"Fr. Des" <fath...@hotmail.com> wrote:
..
>To compare the two, the situation for catholics was a modest inconveniance
>compared to what was done to the indians. I draw your attention to
>the fact that we were discussing the past and its irrelevance. If the situation
>is so good for indians today (and I do not trust your opinions and selective
>If you want to do that, then many unionists in N.I. now feel that they
>are the ones who are now the victims and catholics are actually running
the
>place. The latter is a mistaken belief IMHO but there is no comparison
>with the Indian situation.
I suppose that what we should do is dig up comparable facts about the relative
living conditions of NI Catholics and Native Americans. Statistics about
infant
mortality, life expectancy, third level education, unemployment, salary,
political representation, media portrayel, and so on. BfB might like to look
into it, because he's quite confident that the situation in NI is so much
worse.
>There you go.
>Next ignorant remark please.
I expect that it will be along the lines that the list I gave above is totally
irrelevant. And that the living conditions of the Indians are their own fault,
and the conditions of the Catholics are the Brits' fault.
Roberto (aka bfb)
<snip> LEARN TO FUCKING SNIP!!!
> Cat(h)
>
Two words Agnus Castus.
Bob
Roberto (aka bfb)
news:4019...@news.boards.ie...
>
Cat
"Roberto \(aka bfb\)" <_@-._> wrote:
>
>
Tut tut, Bob. Resorting to knee-jerk middle-aged chauvinistic dismissal
passes for debate in this enlightened country you come from?
Cat
"Roberto \(aka bfb\)" <_@-._> wrote:
>
>
Next time you come to Galway, you might enrol at the local VEC for a spot
of Irish wit?
Roberto (aka bfb)
news:4019...@news.boards.ie...
>
>
> Take it whatever way you want. The truth is the truth, regardless
>
>
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
No I didn't, I made a statement of fact. Hardly your line
Roberto (aka bfb)
news:40194b06$1...@news.boards.ie...
>
> "Roberto \(aka bfb\)" <_@-._> wrote:
> >Would you wipe my ass when your done?
> >
>
> Next time you come to Galway, you might enrol at the local VEC for a spot
> of Irish wit?
> Cat(h)
>
>
Bob
Roberto (aka bfb)
>
> "Roberto \(aka bfb\)" <_@-._> wrote:
> >
> >
> ><snip> LEARN TO FUCKING SNIP!!!
> >> Cat(h)
> >>
> >Two words Agnus Castus.
> >
> >Bob
>
> Tut tut, Bob. Resorting to knee-jerk middle-aged chauvinistic dismissal
> passes for debate in this enlightened country you come from?
> Cat(h)
>
Bob
Roberto (aka bfb)
"Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
news:4019...@news.boards.ie...
>
> "Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
> news:kvOdnSICst2...@adelphia.com...
> > "Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
> > news:4019...@news.boards.ie...
> > >
> > > > I'll take that as your usual 'I can't".
> > >
> > > Take it whatever way you want. The truth is the truth, regardless
> > >
> > You've got to do better than that. You stole my line.
>
> No I didn't, I made a statement of fact. Hardly your line
>
Yes you did. And used it as if it was your original thought (like you could
ever have one of those).
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
No I didn't. I've been using that particular phrase for decades
> (like you could ever have one of those).
I was lucky in that I wasn't indoctrinated into any religious cults when
young, so I'm well able to have original thoughts
Roberto (aka bfb)
differ.
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
Not really. It's tough having to face up to the cold hard reality of life
and death, so I guess you're the lucky one
O'Kiwi
<joche...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>In article <c31h109mvlch5cq8d...@4ax.com>,
> O'Kiwi <somethi...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>> Wake up...this is the 21st Century not the 19th...
>
>But to be allowed to live in Ireland one still must like hurling.
When in Rome do as the Romans do.
Its like English people coming to New Zealand and moaning about all
the Rugby on TV...its a bad look and its ignorant but where did I say
that one MUST like hurling in order to be ALLOWED to live in Ireland?
Nik
O'Kiwi
>Scríobh Jochen Lueg <joche...@freeuk.com>:
>>In article <c31h109mvlch5cq8d...@4ax.com>,
>> O'Kiwi <somethi...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Wake up...this is the 21st Century not the 19th...
>>
>>But to be allowed to live in Ireland one still must like hurling.
>
>Strangely enough, this is not the case. Contrary to any public
>impression that may have been given hereabouts, Ireland is not
>governed from New Zealand.
Don't believe him folks. My secret Uber Niktatorship is out...
Nik the Uber Niktator of Ireland, New Zealand and the Outer Hebrides
O'Kiwi
Post of the day
<Nik nearly choking on his breakfast>
Nik
Fr. Des
Nik is from New Zealand; he can want what he likes.
The real question is what the people of NI want (including you).
In the Free State, a united Ireland is not exactly very high on most
peoples shopping lists; it comes somewhere in between having your
prostate tested and fixing the septic tank.
If you want to avoid a United Ireland you might start by trying to make
N.I. a decent place to live. That would keep the taigs
happy and they would all vote against a UI (well enough to carry the vote
for you)
and you would have the added bonus of living somewhere nice.
If, on the otehr hand, you behave like it is 1702 and the battle of Ballyscrotum
is still fresh in living memory, you are doomed.
Chris Hedley
> "Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
> news:6alf101l3ugk8c9b4...@4ax.com...
> > Scríobh "Kenn Gordon" <kenn_...@ntlworld.com>:
>
> > Fadas are not a decorative element to be sprinkled at random.
>
> Máttér óf ópíníón.
Ï qüïtë lïkë ümläüts, mÿsëlf.
Chris.
--
http://www.chrishedley.com -- Nothing much of interest except my genealogy
stuff and some duff photos. Don't say you weren't warned.
Roberto (aka bfb)
> Not really. It's tough having to face up to the cold hard reality of life
> and death, so I guess you're the lucky one
>
>
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
Picture an elephant defecating
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
Picture an elephant defecating
Falcon
news:e2mi101po23stdllk...@4ax.com...
> On 29 Jan 2004 17:51:17 GMT, "westprog" <west...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> >I suppose that what we should do is dig up comparable facts about the relative
> >living conditions of NI Catholics and Native Americans. Statistics about
> >infant mortality, life expectancy, third level education, unemployment, salary,
> >political representation, media portrayel, and so on. BfB might like to look
> >into it, because he's quite confident that the situation in NI is so much
[Selective undeclared snip detected]
> The comparison there would be with the British treatment of the Irish
> as a whole, during the 19th century.
[Snipped single-sentence oh-so-punchy, totally meaningless paragraphs]
Only if the comparison ...
took into account the ...
British ruling class's treatment ...
of it's own people ...
(and its empire) ...
during the same period, ...
and applied the same comparisons ...
across a whole raft of European ...
countries with empires ...
that spanned the globe.
As well as the USA ...
of course.
That's the point.
That's what you can't ...
deal with, because to do so ...
might damage your ...
claim to ...
special victim status.
And even then ...
it wouldn't work ...
because you're wrong.
It isn't "apt" at all.
-------
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
War is Peace:
Freedom is Slavery:
Ignorance is Strength.
-=-
This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.
Roberto (aka bfb)
news:4019...@news.boards.ie...
>
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
Tough job being a realist
Roberto (aka bfb)
news:4019...@news.boards.ie...
>
> "Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
> news:qYCdnU4ux-h...@adelphia.com...
> > "Howard Beale" <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
> > news:4019...@news.boards.ie...
> > >
> > > "Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
> > > news:oaKdnUDEs-p...@adelphia.com...
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > Not really. It's tough having to face up to the cold hard reality
of
> > > life
> > > > > and death, so I guess you're the lucky one
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Picture the smallest violin in the world.
> > >
> > > Picture an elephant defecating
> > >
> > >
> > Don't be so hard on yerself.
>
> Tough job being a realist
>
>
Howard Beale
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
That's my line
Roberto (aka bfb)
I'm only a rude, dumb, profane, Darby O whatisname, plastic, err... You can
finish it.