Irish Dancing Fashions in the USA
unki
There was this very good documentary on RTE the other night about this Italian-American
family in New York who have a daughter who is a famous Irish Dancer over
there and has won loads of competitions and the like.
It was quite touching to see the dedication and effort this family put in
to support their daughter and is quite different from here in Ireland where
buying your children the latest Man United jersey or taking them to McDonalds
is a sign offantastic parenting. Irish people are not really sufficient developed
to have children in many, many cases – but to see how well rounded this little
girl was and how her parents made the effort to make he a complete child.
Anyway…just as I was thinking that the US is more psychologically healthy
as a society (at the everyday, human level) than Ireland, the good ole’ yanks
prove me wrong. Apparently, from what was said in this documentary, that
all the little girls who have to enter these Irish dance competitions in
the USA have to have these bizarre Shirley Temple curly wigs.
The children looked normal in their regular clothes but at the Irish Dancing
comps transformed in strange freaks with wigs and psychedelic SCI-FI dancing
costumes. It was surreal. It was all about show and flash and the kids looked
like clowns. Even the Celtic designs on the kids dresses look weird and acid-trip
inspired with amazing shades of pink and lime green all over them.
unki
Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
>You need to get out more. I';ve been to feiseanna in Ireland where the
>same effort is put into preparing the kids as you describe.
Fair enough then.
>>Irish people are not really sufficient developed
>>to have children in many, many cases – but to see how well rounded this
little
>>girl was and how her parents made the effort to make he a complete child.
>>
>>
>>Anyway…just as I was thinking that the US is more psychologically healthy
>>as a society (at the everyday, human level) than Ireland, the good ole’
yanks
>>prove me wrong. Apparently, from what was said in this documentary, that
>>all the little girls who have to enter these Irish dance competitions in
>>the USA have to have these bizarre Shirley Temple curly wigs.
>
>Same in Ireland. The curls are pretty much part of the uniform, along
>with the 19th century "Celtic" dresses.
I have never seen gigantic Paul Stanley permed wigs and psychedelic dresses
on the kids dancing here. I am not aware either of the kids being heavily
made up as well.
>
>>The children looked normal in their regular clothes but at the Irish Dancing
>>comps transformed in strange freaks with wigs and psychedelic SCI-FI dancing
>>costumes. It was surreal. It was all about show and flash and the kids
looked
>>like clowns. Even the Celtic designs on the kids dresses look weird and
acid-trip
>>inspired with amazing shades of pink and lime green all over them.
>
>FWIW, the kids from Glencolmcille attend one of two dancing schools.
>In one, they wear the Kells-inspired pattern dresses, hair curls,
>glitter everywhere. In the other, the kids wear unfussy black dresses
>a la Riverdance.
You obligotory "I am come from a special gaelic place" carry on means nothing
to me. But still, I am glad the kids there are not wearing big curly wigs.
Geoffrey Sherwood
"Fachad ir" <Fach@d. ir> wrote in message
news:f9v6cvomkdr04b7vf...@4ax.com...
>
> FWIW, the kids from Glencolmcille attend one of two dancing schools.
> In one, they wear the Kells-inspired pattern dresses, hair curls,
> glitter everywhere. In the other, the kids wear unfussy black dresses
> a la Riverdance.
>
> "Ferr fíor fertaib"
> Féachadóir
I'm assuming this is the Glencolmcille in Donegal about 30 mi west of
Killibegs? I spent a week there around Easter attending the Irish school
Oideas Gael. I must admit I'm kind of at a loss as to how they could
support one Irish dancing school let alone two.... It is such a tiny place
(3 pubs, two spar-type shops, a post office, a couple of tourist places, and
not too much else). I guess they draw from surrounding area? The area
around silver strand (5 mi away) is more populated so I guess that might be
a source of kids.. Anyway, I was surpised to read this.
With regards to the day-glo dancing, I went to a St Patrick's fest in West
Palm Beach, Florida (Wolfe Tones played and were quite good, if a bit
self-aggrandizing). One of the performances was by an Irish dancing school.
Their costumes were about as garish as anything I've ever seen. They'd have
fit right into a circus.... Indeed, they all had curly hair as well but I
had no idea that wigs might be involved.
Geoff Sherwood
unki
This is the kind of thing I was talking about:
http://www.nbirishdance.ca/
Very different that what you see in Ireland I think. The dancers in New York
were even more big wigged and psychedelic.
You have to admit it has more in common with this:
http://www.irelandstreasures.com/web_ima/dolls/h_grainne_tn.jpg
It’s the gigantic wigs and LOUD costumes I find so odd and so unnecessary.
Nothing against these kids dancing and fair play to them. But it’s amazingly
Hollywood/Las Vegas compared to what you see in Ireland. Reminds me of how
we used to view the Cheerleders at the Paddy Day parade in Dublin years ago.
They seemed so much larger than life than Irish girls.
Maybe I am just jealous that the Yanks can make an industry of stuff we were
useless at.
Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
>Scríobh unki:
>
>>>FWIW, the kids from Glencolmcille attend one of two dancing schools.
>>>In one, they wear the Kells-inspired pattern dresses, hair curls,
>>>glitter everywhere. In the other, the kids wear unfussy black dresses
>>>a la Riverdance.
>>
>>You obligotory "I am come from a special gaelic place" carry on means nothing
>>to me.
>
>All I'm doing is giving you a different part of Ireland. Whatever
>feiseanna are like in Dublin/Sligo (where are you based these days
>anyway), in Glen they were usually big hair and loud uniforms, though
>the Riverdance look has been making inroads in recent years.
>
>>But still, I am glad the kids there are not wearing big curly wigs.
>
>Glen kids have natural big hair ;)
>
>--
>"Ferr fíor fertaib"
>Féachadóir
--
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--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
William A. T. Clark
You have got that right. My daughter is a dancer, and in the five years
or so that she has been involved, I have seen the solo dresses go from
dignified dark blue/red/black velvet with pleasing celtic designs, to
the lighweight silk dresses (not a bad idea for Summer feissana in the
US) in neon colors (especialy the orange) and bizarre designs. The
overall impression of most of these color schemes is akin to a box of
Tide.
Whatever happened to the coats of arms?
William Clark
docaay
>
> Wigs, extensions, or steamed curlers as the need arises :)
>
> --
> "Ferr fíor fertaib"
> Féachadóir
It sometimes amazes me the extent that your knowledge reaches.
Doc
Boliath
> Scríobh unki:
>
> >>FWIW, the kids from Glencolmcille attend one of two dancing schools.
> >>In one, they wear the Kells-inspired pattern dresses, hair curls,
> >>glitter everywhere. In the other, the kids wear unfussy black dresses
> >>a la Riverdance.
> >
> >You obligotory "I am come from a special gaelic place" carry on means
nothing
> >to me.
>
> feiseanna are like in Dublin/Sligo (where are you based these days
> anyway), in Glen they were usually big hair and loud uniforms, though
> the Riverdance look has been making inroads in recent years.
>
>
He has a point Ger, the American Irish dancing costumes are truly garish,
I've seen dresses here that look like the little girls puked on them. The
wig thing is outrageous, these tiny girls with huge curly clown wigs on
their heads crowns and full make-up on. I haven't seen them quite so bad in
Ireland - close though in recent years, this website:
http://www.threadsofgreen.ie/ gives the yanks a run for their money - but
there does seem to be an international style, these kids travel the world
for feiseanna after all and there seems to be styles that go in and out of
fashion. I wish they'd lose the crown things they annoy me as much as the
wigs and the make-up. If I had to suffer my Mother curling my hair in rags
with tired cranky hands after doing my 3 older sisters, they should too,
it's a vital part of the Irish dancing experience.
Have a look here and click on the first picture for a fright:
http://www.bostonirishdance.com/album/2001_NeOir.asp
Boliath
> Scríobh unki:
> >Maybe I am just jealous that the Yanks can make an industry of stuff we
were
> >useless at.
>
Been a while since you were in Boston Ger eh? There's a good amount of
quality Irish bars here now, some even worthy of the website unki was doing.
There's many crap ones too and in general you're right but there has been
some improvement in the last few years - in Boston anyway, Cambridge to be
specific.
O Siadhail
>It was quite touching to see the dedication and effort this family put in
>to support their daughter and is quite different from here in Ireland
Unks, keep in mind this was a documentary, people tend to have a second side
when the cameras are on them.
I've seen this taken to the other extreme here as well where the kids are
pushed to fulfill the roles the parents missed or whatever
ll Ynot Tsaflebx
A male gynecologist is like an auto mechanic who never owned a car.
Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have
come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.
docaay
>
> Scríobh docaay:
> >"Féachadóir" wrote:
> >>
> >> Wigs, extensions, or steamed curlers as the need arises :)
>
>
> They still get called upon to dance at weddings
>
> --
> "Ferr fíor fertaib"
> Féachadóir
Aha. This just makes you more human, Ger. :)
Doc
docaay
>
> Have a look here and click on the first picture for a fright:
> http://www.bostonirishdance.com/album/2001_NeOir.asp
Meaning, of course, that there is actually a boy in the group?
This is just an extension (forgive the pun) of the
cheerleader/dance line/you name it thing that is popular in areas
of the US. No harm, really. Keeps the girls occupied and it is
very, very good for them physically.
They dont' learn much about Irish culture, but we on this group
don't either.
Doc
unki
"Séimí mac Liam" <gwy...@aracnet.com> wrote:
>http://www.murrayirishdance.com/irish_dance_news.htm
I am sorry, but these kids have been done up to look like a bunch of tarts.
The whole John Bennet Ramsey bullshit. I don't like this at all.
It about dancing, not who has the wealthiest parents. It's sordid and unfair
to kids who maybe amazing dancers but have parents who can;t afford have
the flashy outfit.
docaay
> >
> >It about dancing, not who has the wealthiest parents. It's sordid and unfair
> >to kids who maybe amazing dancers but have parents who can;t afford have
> >the flashy outfit.
>
> no matter what they're wearing.
It is bizzare how the whole thing has evolved. Too much of it
*is* some parents' fantasy. I've been close to something similar,
though, and the girls do have a lot of fun as long as the parents
hang on to their sanity. As to Unki's objections, many times
parent groups contribute time in exchange for help with the
money.
It isn't just Irish dancing in the States, for that matter. I
know parents with kids in hockey who shell out thousands of
dollars for equipment, travel and ice time for their kids. There
are six and seven year old boys who have ice time at three or
four in the morning because the "big" boys practice during the
day. Now there is insanity.
Doc
unki
xbel...@aol.comOSiadhai (O Siadhail) wrote:
>Unks, keep in mind this was a documentary, people tend to have a second
side
>when the cameras are on them.
Just like SCI then.
unki
"Boliath" <boliat...@upyerhoopspammers.com> wrote:
>Have a look here and click on the first picture for a fright:
>http://www.bostonirishdance.com/album/2001_NeOir.asp
The third girl just has that whole showbiz-sweetie pie smile thing down just
too well! Jaysus, nobody in Ireland can smile like that! It's an artform
all by itself.
docaay
There is a scarier pic if you go back to the home page. Would
you let that man anywhere near your daughters?
Doc
unki
You know Doc, sometimes you can be a judgemental prickess.
docaay
You are 100% correct.
Doc
O Siadhail
>Just like SCI then.
inverted
Geoffrey Sherwood
"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
news:hh77cv8roj43u548k...@4ax.com...
> >about 30 mi west of
> >Killibegs?
>
Of course. I was thinking 30 min and typed 30 mi. Sorry. Since Killibegs
has the nearest ATM to Glencolmcille I found it necessary to make that drive
once during the week I spent there and once again after the week was over.
Actually I guess it is about a draw time-wise over the hill to Ardara, but
when I drove through Ardara it was such a zoo I didn't have any great desire
to return -- at least not for something as simple as an ATM. My wife and I
are returning to Glencolmcille for two weeks this summer and she has advised
me that we would be doing some shopping for wool or tweed or some such in
Ardara!
>>I spent a week there around Easter attending the Irish school
>>Oideas Gael. I must admit I'm kind of at a loss as to how they could
>>support one Irish dancing school let alone two.... It is such a tiny
place
>>(3 pubs, two spar-type shops, a post office, a couple of tourist places,
and
>>not too much else). I guess they draw from surrounding area? The area
>
>The two schools I know of are Bonner-Cannon and Jacinta Gallagher.
>They'd cover not just Glen but surrounding areas (in Bonner-Cannon's
>case, most of the county)
Oh I certainly wasn't doubting you. I was just surprised because, pretty as
it is, there just doesn't seem to be much 'there' there. We all spent many
a late night in those three pubs, though! If only my room had had dark
curtains....
Geoff Sherwood
Séimí mac Liam
news:o0c7cv8qluissm5ug...@4ax.com:
> Scríobh unki:
> At the end of the day, the judges give the prizes to the best dancers,
> no matter what they're wearing.
>
One would hope so. Though I think the purpose of the loud dresses is to
ensure that they catch the judge's eye. And by my observation, it works
with some judges.
Séimí mac Liam
The dresses and the hair are as you say. But it really is about which
parents have the money(or are willing to spend it). You can't get good
if you don't compete and that means going to feis's and that means travel
and in the western US that means money. It's not Ireland where you can
drive for an hour and get to enough events to get ranked. My neighbor's
daughter competes. This means going to Portland, Seattle, Vancouver BC,
San Francisco and Denver at the minimum to get enough points to get
ranked. Hotel rooms for at least two nights, plus a one or two day drive
or airfare. For at least the child and one parent. This is a stress on
the budget of anyone below the higher end of middle class. So it is
about who has the money, if you want to become world class and have the
ability recognized. My children dropped lessons after two years and
their first feis, because they abhorred the behavior of some of the stage
mothers. I was proud of them and they were good dancers and could have
gotten really good, but at what cost?
RogueXV
This is what gets me. Everything needs to be turned into some kind of
competition. It should be just about the dancing. If it was then
wigs, overdone make-up, outrageous costumes and stage moms wouldn't be
necessary. Unki mentioned cheerleading and that is what this reminds
me of. Cheerleading used to be about getting the crowd to make some
noise in support of the team. Now it is a competive sport all itself.
Now I'm not saying cheerleaders are not athletes, I'm just saying it
has evolved into something totally different.
My 5 year old stopped Irish dance after 3 months because she said the
stomping hurt her feet and it sounds like a good thing from most of
the comments here. My wife and I were already beginning to wonder
what we were getting ourselves into especially after we read in one of
the dance schools monthly newsletters about an upcoming
competition/feis that said if any girl did not have the regulation
dance costume (whatever that means) their dress would be confiscated.
Their standards seemed to be very exacting and I would think would
take away from some of the fun. I would be for a movement that had
schools that taught dance for the fun of it and to get some Irish
culture in the process. I'm sure if such schools exist in the US they
are going the way of Tommy's pubs.
KateH
> Scríobh unki:
> >But still, I am glad the kids there are not wearing big curly wigs.
>
LOL.........love it. :)
I'm wrestling with an American version of thisvery dilemma....... in that,
the kids in my son's Bluegrass band all want to wear Billy-Bob-Teeth on
stage.
KateH :)
docaay
YAY!!!! Let them do it!
Doc
docaay
Ger will be along shortly to let you know that Glen kids have
natural Billy-Bob teeth.
Doc
KateH
> docaay wrote:
> > KateH wrote:
> > > "Féachadóir" wrote ...
> > > > Scríobh unki:
> > > > >But still, I am glad the kids there are not wearing big curly wigs.
> > > >
> > > > Glen kids have natural big hair ;)
> > >
> > > LOL.........love it. :)
> > > I'm wrestling with an American version of thisvery dilemma....... in
that,
> > > the kids in my son's Bluegrass band all want to wear Billy-Bob-Teeth
on
> > > stage.
> > > KateH :)
> >
> > YAY!!!! Let them do it!
> natural Billy-Bob teeth.
Geeze, I hope not........
KateH
Holly
"unki" <1...@12.12> wrote in message news:3ec39a5d$1...@news.boards.ie...
That's disgusting. Not the sort of thing I'm use to seeing. The little girls
that I've seen dancing in America had a more natural look. Is this more of
the stage mother thing? How can wigs and glopping on makeup be traditional?
Who came up with that one? And lord, those florescent dresses. Never seen
that either.
michael adams
"Holly" <holly...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:penxa.77$M9...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "unki" <1...@12.12> wrote in message news:3ec39a5d$1...@news.boards.ie...
> >
> > This is the kind of thing I was talking about:
> > http://www.nbirishdance.ca/
> >
>
> That's disgusting.
How dare you!
...
> Not the sort of thing I'm use to seeing. The little girls that
> I've seen dancing in America had a more natural look. Is this more
> of the stage mother thing? How can wigs
...
For your infomation those are not wigs!
If you had the slightest idea of what you were talking, about, you'd
realise that the fuller bodied Little Miss Muppet\Shirley Temple style
has been de rigeur in certain quarters for a number of years now!
...
and glopping on makeup be traditional?
> Who came up with that one? And lord, those florescent dresses.
...
If you'd ever actually seen the Book Of Kells you'd realise that
the monks at the time, although they didn't have access to
any actual flourescent inks, were seeking to achieve precisely
those effects.
As a consequence, Modern Irish Dancing is a very healthy amalgam
of Little Miss Muppet, The Book of Kells, and Comely Maidens Dancing
at the Crossroads. And what's more it provides welcome employment to
numerous people in the Hair-Products and Flourescsent Thread Industries
world-wide!
Which is more than the likes of you, with your carping cynicism
and begrudgery have ever done!
michael adams
...
michael adams
> >
> > This is the kind of thing I was talking about:
> > http://www.nbirishdance.ca/
> >
>
> That's disgusting.
How dare you!
...
> Not the sort of thing I'm use to seeing. The little girls that
> I've seen dancing in America had a more natural look. Is this more
> of the stage mother thing? How can wigs
...
For your infomation those are not wigs!
If you had the slightest idea of what you were talking, about, you'd
realise that the fuller bodied Little Miss Muppet\Shirley Temple style
has been de rigeur in certain quarters for a number of years now!
...
and glopping on makeup be traditional?
> Who came up with that one? And lord, those florescent dresses.
...
Holly
"michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:3ec6...@212.67.96.135...
>
> "Holly" <holly...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:penxa.77$M9...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "unki" <1...@12.12> wrote in message news:3ec39a5d$1...@news.boards.ie...
> > >
> > > This is the kind of thing I was talking about:
> > > http://www.nbirishdance.ca/
> > >
> >
> > That's disgusting.
> ...
>
> How dare you!
Wigs and makeup on little girls is disgusting.
>
> ...
>
> > Not the sort of thing I'm use to seeing. The little girls that
> > I've seen dancing in America had a more natural look. Is this more
> > of the stage mother thing? How can wigs
>
> ...
>
> For your infomation those are not wigs!
>
> If you had the slightest idea of what you were talking, about, you'd
> realise that the fuller bodied Little Miss Muppet\Shirley Temple style
> has been de rigeur in certain quarters for a number of years now!
There is nothing wrong with that if it's their natural hair style. I'd give
my eye-teeth for curly hair. But you start puffing and spraying a little
girls hair she looks ridiculous.
>
> ...
>
> and glopping on makeup be traditional?
> > Who came up with that one? And lord, those florescent dresses.
>
> ...
>
> If you'd ever actually seen the Book Of Kells you'd realise that
> the monks at the time, although they didn't have access to
> any actual flourescent inks, were seeking to achieve precisely
> those effects.
I've seen the Book of Kells at TC and some of those colors you won't see
there. And how do you know what effect they were "seeking" to achieve.
Almost like interpreting the Bible anyway you like.
>
> As a consequence, Modern Irish Dancing is a very healthy amalgam
> of Little Miss Muppet, The Book of Kells, and Comely Maidens Dancing
> at the Crossroads.
Of course.
And what's more it provides welcome employment to
> numerous people in the Hair-Products and Flourescsent Thread Industries
> world-wide!
Who cares? Of course unless you are in one of those industries. Businesses
make profilatics however you spell it. You going to hand them out to
children to keep them in business.
>
> Which is more than the likes of you, with your carping cynicism
> and begrudgery have ever done!
>
>
>
> michael adams
Wouldn't you think the ancient Celts had no makeup, natural hair, and earth
tones to their costumes or clothing. Wouldn't want to cut into your modern
business though.
michael adams
> > > That's disgusting.
> > ...
> >
> > How dare you!
>
> Wigs and makeup on little girls is disgusting.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > Not the sort of thing I'm use to seeing. The little girls that
> > > I've seen dancing in America had a more natural look. Is this more
> > > of the stage mother thing? How can wigs
> >
> > ...
> >
> > For your infomation those are not wigs!
> >
> > If you had the slightest idea of what you were talking, about, you'd
> > realise that the fuller bodied Little Miss Muppet\Shirley Temple style
> > has been de rigeur in certain quarters for a number of years now!
>
> There is nothing wrong with that if it's their natural hair style.
...
How precisely do you define a natural hair style? Presumably
cutting hair at all is a rather unnnatural thing to do. So a
natural hair style would eventually grow to floor length, and
become rather difficult to maintain I'd imagine. What with matting,
split ends, etc etc. To say nothing of a fortune needing to spent on
shampoo. Presumably it would have to be gathered up in a bun or similar,
simply in order to avoid tripping over it etc.
...
> I'd give
> my eye-teeth for curly hair. But you start puffing and spraying a little
> girls hair she looks ridiculous.
...
Who says? The child herself....or you with your straight hair? Not dyed
green by any chance is it?
...
> > ...
> >
> > and glopping on makeup be traditional?
> > > Who came up with that one?
...
Makeup as such isn't "traditional" for anyone. And much of what we
now come to regard as essential features of "childhood" are a purely
artificial construction dreamed up by better-off Victorians. While the
worse off 5 year olds were busily engaged helping their parents in the
Cotton Mills, with feeding the poultry, or down the mines.
...
And lord, those florescent dresses.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > If you'd ever actually seen the Book Of Kells you'd realise that
> > the monks at the time, although they didn't have access to
> > any actual flourescent inks, were seeking to achieve precisely
> > those effects.
>
> I've seen the Book of Kells at TC and some of those colors you won't see
> there. And how do you know what effect they were "seeking" to achieve.
> Almost like interpreting the Bible anyway you like.
...
IMO If they'd have had flourescent ink they'd have used it. Its about
as "restrained" and "tasteful" in its way, as the gold leaf they did in fact
use. The only thing which would have prevented its use would have been
widespread availability - if the peasants had been painting their cart
fenders with the stuff. But as the King would have had control of the
patent, I personally regard that as highly unlikely.
...
> >
> > As a consequence, Modern Irish Dancing is a very healthy amalgam
> > of Little Miss Muppet, The Book of Kells, and Comely Maidens Dancing
> > at the Crossroads.
>
> Of course.
>
> And what's more it provides welcome employment to
> > numerous people in the Hair-Products and Flourescsent Thread Industries
> > world-wide!
>
> Who cares? Of course unless you are in one of those industries. Businesses
> make profilatics however you spell it. You going to hand them out to
> children to keep them in business.
>
...
Far better they should be encouraged into something relatively healthy
and mildly competitive, while developing their fashion sense, than hang
around with punks and junkies on street corners. Or is that what you'd
prefer?
...
>
> Wouldn't you think the ancient Celts had no makeup, natural hair, and
earth
> tones to their costumes or clothing. Wouldn't want to cut into your modern
> business though.
>
...
Better turn up the air conditioning then! They didn't all use Timotei
Shampoo* you know. And just wait till your kids find out the Ancient Celts
only ever washed once a week! If that!
michael adams
* Natural "Green" Shampoo featuring floozies in jungle style jacuzzies.
...
Sidheseeker
"Holly" <holly...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>Wouldn't you think the ancient Celts had no makeup, natural hair, and earth
>tones to their costumes or clothing. Wouldn't want to cut into your modern
>business though.
>
To quote John King..
"As well as using dyes for their hair, woman (and perhaps some men, too)
used a herb called 'ruam' to heighten the colour of their chheks, and they
dyed their brows black with berry juice. Deidre, in the Irish tales, is so
consumed by sorrow, and therefore unconcerned with her personal appearance,
that, as she says: 'I do not redden my finger-nais.' Celtic women in Gaul
certainly used cosmetics: the Roman poet Propertius reviles his mistress
for 'making up like the Celts'." end quote
And later things written about Niamh and Olwen show these women were anything
but plain Janes..
--
[Posted at boards.ie]
http://www.boards.ie/
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After Hours - Games - Technology - Work - For Sale
fealsunai
> This is the kind of thing I was talking about:
> http://www.nbirishdance.ca/
That's on the east coast of Canada. People out there have a very
different sensiblility. I don't think you would catch anyone from
Ontario dressed like that! Though I could be wrong.
Fealsamh
Holly
Isn't this a healthier look?
http://www.angelfire.com/pa4/brennan/
I'll give you this. I had a hard time finding a school with pictures where
the little girls performing didn't look like Tammy Faye Baker on crack in
America or Ireland. But I don't see Eileen Brennan in the picture dressed
so trashy.
http://rince.homestead.com/Pictures_Class2002.html
Now where are all those curls you were talking about?
Don't try to hand me that the excess crappola is Irish tradition. It's a new
money maker pure and simple. However, the only one to blame are the parents
that buy into it.
Holly
> news:lUpxa.2102$g84....@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> > > > That's disgusting.
> > > ...
> > >
> > > How dare you!
> >
> > Wigs and makeup on little girls is disgusting.
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > Not the sort of thing I'm use to seeing. The little girls that
> > > > I've seen dancing in America had a more natural look. Is this more
> > > > of the stage mother thing? How can wigs
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > If you had the slightest idea of what you were talking, about, you'd
> > > realise that the fuller bodied Little Miss Muppet\Shirley Temple style
> > > has been de rigeur in certain quarters for a number of years now!
> >
> > There is nothing wrong with that if it's their natural hair style.
> ...
>
> How precisely do you define a natural hair style?
How the little girl's hair looks when they are not performing. A little more
attention to it perhaps.
>Presumably
> cutting hair at all is a rather unnatural thing to do. So a
> natural hair style would eventually grow to floor length, and
> become rather difficult to maintain I'd imagine.
What with matting,
> split ends, etc etc. To say nothing of a fortune needing to spent on
> shampoo. Presumably it would have to be gathered up in a bun or similar,
> simply in order to avoid tripping over it etc.
Oh nonsense. Nothing wrong with short, long or in-between. Little girls
should have clean hair and fresh scrubbed faces. They need no color added to
their faces. Maybe a little pink lipstick to make the occasion seem special.
And the comb and brush were invented a long time ago.
>
> ...
>
> > I'd give
> > my eye-teeth for curly hair. But you start puffing and spraying a little
> > girls hair she looks ridiculous.
>
> ...
>
> Who says? The child herself....or you with your straight hair? Not dyed
> green by any chance is it?
Funny, I thought the parents set the rules. Brown and in a ponytail most of
the time.
>
> ...
> > > ...
> > >
> > > and glopping on makeup be traditional?
> > > > Who came up with that one?
>
> ...
>
> Makeup as such isn't "traditional" for anyone.
Unfortunately it has become so.
>And much of what we
> now come to regard as essential features of "childhood" are a purely
> artificial construction dreamed up by better-off Victorians. While the
> worse off 5 year olds were busily engaged helping their parents in the
> Cotton Mills, with feeding the poultry, or down the mines.
What the hell does that have to do with slapping makeup on ten year old
girls, now? Shouldn't a child believe she is beautiful without painting her
face? ...
>
>
> And lord, those florescent dresses.
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > If you'd ever actually seen the Book Of Kells you'd realise that
> > > the monks at the time, although they didn't have access to
> > > any actual fluorescent inks, were seeking to achieve precisely
> > > those effects.
> >
> > I've seen the Book of Kells at TC and some of those colors you won't see
> > there. And how do you know what effect they were "seeking" to achieve.
> > Almost like interpreting the Bible anyway you like.
>
> ...
>
> IMO If they'd have had fluorescent ink they'd have used it. Its about
> as "restrained" and "tasteful" in its way, as the gold leaf they did in
fact
> use. The only thing which would have prevented its use would have been
> widespread availability - if the peasants had been painting their cart
> fenders with the stuff. But as the King would have had control of the
> patent, I personally regard that as highly unlikely.
Gold leaf is natural and beautiful. Add the gold designs to a simple dark
green, red, black, or blue dress and it would be quite suitable. Have the
hair flying or in braids and let the focus be on the foot work. Jaysus, how
can anybody pay attention to the foot work with all that other technicolor
mess on a child. Beside, those websites selling the psychedelic stuff is
mostly for the yank dancing schools and you know it.
>
> ...
>
>
> > >
> > > As a consequence, Modern Irish Dancing is a very healthy amalgam
> > > of Little Miss Muppet, The Book of Kells, and Comely Maidens Dancing
> > > at the Crossroads.
> >
> > Of course.
> >
> > And what's more it provides welcome employment to
> > > numerous people in the Hair-Products and Fluorescent Thread
Industries
> > > world-wide!
> >
> > Who cares? Of course unless you are in one of those industries.
Businesses
> > make prophylactics however you spell it. You going to hand them out to
> > children to keep them in business.
> >
> ...
>
> Far better they should be encouraged into something relatively healthy
> and mildly competitive, while developing their fashion sense, than hang
> around with punks and junkies on street corners. Or is that what you'd
> prefer?
I'd prefer the "healthy and mildly competitive" with a fashion sense guided
by their parents. And if children "hang around" with their parents, chances
are they won't going seeking companion ship with the darker side of life,
God willin'.
> ...
>
> >
> > Wouldn't you think the ancient Celts had no makeup, natural hair, and
> earth
> > tones to their costumes or clothing. Wouldn't want to cut into your
modern
> > business though.
> >
> ...
>
> Better turn up the air conditioning then! They didn't all use Timotei
> Shampoo* you know. And just wait till your kids find out the Ancient Celts
> only ever washed once a week! If that!
> michael adams
With all the rain in Ireland I doubt if anyone went long without a rinsing
off. And soap was invented as far back as 2800 BC, so....... Haven't you
heard the expression, "Water rots everything." It also can dry out the skin
and strip the hair of oils. Besides, it's time consuming to wash and dry
long hair. There is no harm done by combing and pin up long hair without a
daily wash, or short hair for that matter. A birdbath in the creek was
probably quite refreshing. And on the colder days, heat some water over the
fire and wash up with it. It's best to believe one could survive under those
conditions, instead of how one would suffer.
You seem to equate the Celtic Tiger with permissive and absentee
parenting.
Holly
"Sidheseeker" <sidhe...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3ec64379$1...@news.boards.ie...
>
> "Holly" <holly...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> >
> >Wouldn't you think the ancient Celts had no makeup, natural hair, and
earth
> >tones to their costumes or clothing. Wouldn't want to cut into your
modern
> >business though.
> >
>
> To quote John King..
>
> "As well as using dyes for their hair, woman (and perhaps some men, too)
> used a herb called 'ruam' to heighten the colour of their chheks, and they
> dyed their brows black with berry juice. Deidre, in the Irish tales, is so
> consumed by sorrow, and therefore unconcerned with her personal
appearance,
> that, as she says: 'I do not redden my finger-nais.' Celtic women in Gaul
> certainly used cosmetics: the Roman poet Propertius reviles his mistress
> for 'making up like the Celts'." end quote
>
> And later things written about Niamh and Olwen show these women were
anything
> but plain Janes..
In Ireland, did the average ancient Celtic woman wear makeup? Nothing wrong
with adding a little color mind you. Women add some color to their faces to
replace what has been lost from youth. I doubt if the ancient Irish Celts
made up the children though. If they did that's water under the bridge. I
don't believe children should wear makeup. They have enough of a challenge
working on what's inside and their thoughts and time should not go into
spending so much time on the outside. And keeping up with the Jones'
children is a dangerous business. Falling victim to the marketing campaigns
is dangerous as well.
Holly
"RogueXV" <rog...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ccf493a9.03051...@posting.google.com...
.
> Their standards seemed to be very exacting and I would think would
> take away from some of the fun. I would be for a movement that had
> schools that taught dance for the fun of it and to get some Irish
> culture in the process. I'm sure if such schools exist in the US they
> are going the way of Tommy's pubs.
Check out all the websites. It's difficult to find one that doesn't have the
girls looking trashy in competition. I only found one website for Irish
dancing schools in Ireland and I already posted that. These American schools
also have for your convenience links to places to buy all the expensive
costumes. It's a big moneymaker and many I-AMs are buying into it. Whatever
happens to Danskins?
Harry Merrick
Michael Adams likes to think that he is the original Oracle and knows
everything. Unfortunately, it is, as per usual, one persons opinion and only
that!
Actually, since the Celtic Tiger success, moral values in Ireland per se. and
amongst the younger of us in particular, has definitely down graded at a rapid
rate. Rapes, beatings, drunkenness, sexual permissiveness, you name it! Oh dear!
And now not enough Garda and Hospital staff to cope as well!! - What's to do?
Harry Merrick.
Holly
"Harry Merrick" <merr...@agencies.dnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3EC7DB76...@agencies.dnet.co.uk...
> Holly wrote:
> > You seem to equate the Celtic Tiger with permissive and absentee
> > parenting.
>
> Michael Adams likes to think that he is the original Oracle and knows
> everything. Unfortunately, it is, as per usual, one persons opinion and
only
> that!
Well I'm a bit guilty of that myself. :)
>
> Actually, since the Celtic Tiger success, moral values in Ireland per se.
and
> amongst the younger of us in particular, has definitely down graded at a
rapid
> rate. Rapes, beatings, drunkenness, sexual permissiveness, you name it! Oh
dear!
> And now not enough Garda and Hospital staff to cope as well!! - What's to
do?
>
> Harry Merrick.
Well for one thing, not to assimilate NI's problems into the mix.
michael adams
>
> >
> > > > > That's disgusting.
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > How dare you!
> > >
> > > Wigs and makeup on little girls is disgusting.
> > > >
> What the hell does that have to do with slapping makeup on ten year old
> girls, now? Shouldn't a child believe she is beautiful without painting
her
> face? ...
> >
...
Many little girls like to use make-up of their own accord. Regrettable
though it may be, they simply like to play at being grown ups. Many
children can't wait to be grown-ups. While many adults still wish they
were children.
And of course a lot of this is to do with vicarious wish fulfillment
on the part of the parents. As is often the case with the desire for
a good education for the child, among other things.
...
> >
> > And lord, those florescent dresses.
> > > >
>
> Gold leaf is natural and beautiful. Add the gold designs to a simple dark
> green, red, black, or blue dress and it would be quite suitable. Have the
> hair flying or in braids and let the focus be on the foot work. Jaysus,
how
> can anybody pay attention to the foot work with all that other technicolor
> mess on a child. Beside, those websites selling the psychedelic stuff is
> mostly for the yank dancing schools and you know it.
> >
> > ...
...
Actually I wouldn't mind betting that if you looked at a local Irish
community newspaper in any part of the world from Australia to the
USA and Britain, during the Competition Season, you'd see photos of
dancers in very similar outfits.
The real irony being that for all the Celtic Insignia the step
dances themselves, jigs, slip jigs, reels etc are a fairly recent
18th.c introduction.
...
>
> I'd prefer the "healthy and mildly competitive" with a fashion sense
guided
> by their parents.
...
But their fashion sense *is* being guided by their parents. That's
precisely what you're complaining of isn't it?
And can you really imagine what they'd look like, if they were allowed
to decide for themselves?
...
And if children "hang around" with their parents,
...
But children don't want to hang around with their parents do they?
That's the whole problem. At least in this way they're kept fully
occupied.
...
>
> With all the rain in Ireland I doubt if anyone went long without a rinsing
> off.
...
Oh I see. So you're now suggesting that parents should push their
children out naked into the pouring rain in the middle of winter
are you? You'd rather all these children should die of pneumonia
than they should be smartly turned out for their dancing competitions.
...
> And soap was invented as far back as 2800 BC, so....... Haven't you
> heard the expression, "Water rots everything." It also can dry out the
skin
> and strip the hair of oils. Besides, it's time consuming to wash and dry
> long hair. There is no harm done by combing and pin up long hair without a
> daily wash, or short hair for that matter. A birdbath in the creek was
> probably quite refreshing. And on the colder days, heat some water over
the
> fire and wash up with it. It's best to believe one could survive under
those
> conditions, instead of how one would suffer.
...
Clearly people survived, and probably quite happily, otherwise we
wouldn't be here today. However what they regarded as acceptable standards
of hygiene would probably induce feelings of nausea, at the very least, in
the
person of today. They weren't all chieftains wearing gold-brooches you know.
We're mainly talking peasants here. Very rustic peasants some of them.
...
>
> You seem to equate the Celtic Tiger with permissive and absentee
> parenting.
>
>
...
No I don't. What exactly have the Celtic Tiger, and permissive and
absentee parenting got to do with any of this?
michael adams
..
michael adams
"Harry Merrick" <merr...@agencies.dnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3EC7DB76...@agencies.dnet.co.uk...
> Actually, since the Celtic Tiger success, moral values in
> Ireland per se. and amongst the younger of us in particular, has
> definitely down graded at a rapid rate. Rapes, beatings, drunkenness,
> sexual permissiveness, you name it! Oh dear! And now not enough Garda
> and Hospital staff to cope as well!! - What's to do?
>
> Harry Merrick.
...
No fears Harry. Help is at hand.
Belfast to Stranraer ferry crossings.
Frequent ferries from Stranraer to Belfast make crossing from Northern
Ireland to Scotland a breeze. Book your ferry to Ireland or Scotland
online here and save time!
Stena Caledonia
CROSSING TIME: 3 Hours 15 minutes
CAPACITY: 1000 Passengers, 285 Cars
RESTAURANTS: 1 self-service restaurant
BARS: 1 Bar, 1 Bar / Snack lounge
FACILITY FOR DISABLED: Adapted Toilets, Lifts
ON BOARD FACILITIES:
Lounges
Gift Shop
Children's Play-Area
Mother and baby Area
Video Lounge
Gaming Machines
http://www.irish-sea-ferry-crossings.co.uk/belfast_stranraer_ferry.html
Hope this helps.
michael adams
...
...
unki
> Actually, since the Celtic Tiger success, moral values in
> Ireland per se. and amongst the younger of us in particular, has
> definitely down graded at a rapid rate. Rapes, beatings, drunkenness,
> sexual permissiveness, you name it! Oh dear! And now not enough Garda
> and Hospital staff to cope as well!! - What's to do?
When we had no money and we were all broke Unionist said it was proof that
the southern Irish were stupid and lazy, when we proved that we were better
and smarter at making money than the Unionists, now it is proof what we are
a shower of animals, perverts, criminals and drunks. You lot are really easy
to please!
unki
"michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:>The real irony being that
for all the Celtic Insignia the step
>dances themselves, jigs, slip jigs, reels etc are a fairly recent
>18th.c introduction.
It was so much more then that. The 19th Gaelic League as it was when it was
founded was cool, progessive and very useful to Ireland as a whole in many
ways. They invented a new art movement and in the last few decades has though
many different outlets brought money into Ireland.
The Gaelic League also back at thew turn of the century had a strong agenda
for promoting irish industry as being as good as anywhere in the world. They
had industrial parades on Saint Patricks dayin cities all over Ireland celebrating
Irish workers and their craftmanship. It's a shame it became a wing of the
catholic church when Dev showed up.
We could do with a modern version of the original Gaelic League. One that
recognises Ireland in it's entirity and does not celebrate the rural tradition
at the expense of everything else. The original Gaelic League were quite
hip actually. There agenda was Irish industry, agriculture, sport, education,
culture and commerce and not the roasy beads and Peig-ism tag that it ended
up getting tainted with.
Paul Carr
"unki" <1...@12.12> wrote in message news:3ec8bf2f$1...@news.boards.ie...
<snip>
> We could do with a modern version of the original Gaelic League. One that
> recognises Ireland in it's entirity and does not celebrate the rural
tradition
> at the expense of everything else. The original Gaelic League were quite
> hip actually. There agenda was Irish industry, agriculture, sport,
education,
> culture and commerce and not the roasy beads and Peig-ism tag that it
ended
> up getting tainted with.
Poor Peig. Much reviled and misunderstood. She's probably still doing the
hand-weaving while I'm typing this.
Paul Carr
unki
Féachadóir <Féach@d.óir> wrote:
>Scríobh unki:
>Excellent post
Cheers, but Pearse was still a fruitcake.
unki
"Paul Carr" <paul...@iol.ie> wrote:
>Poor Peig. Much reviled and misunderstood. She's probably still doing
the
>hand-weaving while I'm typing this.
It's not Peig Sayers (the person's) fault. All that woman did was live a
hard life and write some stories about it. It's the people who said that
how "all Irish people should live" along with the bearded custodians of the
native language who caused all the problems and maybe her a thorn in the
side of Leaving Cert students.
To be fair The Charwoman's Daughter was on my Leaving Cert as well as Peig.
westprog
"unki" <1...@12.12> wrote in message news:3ec8cbf6$1...@news.boards.ie...
> >Excellent post
> Cheers, but Pearse was still a fruitcake.
Walking back from BO-Con I passed the Connie "Unki's Bitch" Markievicz statue.
Is she the only person in Ireland commemorated with her dog? Emmet looks
as if
he has something on a lead, but it is only implied.
J/
SOTW: "The KKK Took My Baby Away" -The Ramones
unki
"westprog" <west...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Is she the only person in Ireland commemorated with her dog?
During the height of the battle for the Royal College of Surgeons, O'Shep
(the dog in the statue) ran down Harcourt Street with a leg in his jaw belonging
to a cadaver that was inside the college when the rebles took over. He then
pissed on the birthplace of Lord Edward Carson while small arms fire landed
all around him. Not having O'Shep commerated in a statue clebrating Irish
heros would be like not having christ on the cross. Unless of course you
are an iconoclast.
docaay
>
> Scríobh westprog:
>
> >Walking back from BO-Con I passed the Connie "Unki's Bitch" Markievicz statue.
> >Is she the only person in Ireland commemorated with her dog?
>
>
> --
> "Ferr fíor fertaib"
> Féachadóir
The BO-Con? Glad I wasnt' there.
Doc
docaay
> >
> >The BO-Con? Glad I wasnt' there.
>
>
> --
> "Ferr fíor fertaib"
> Féachadóir
OK, OK, I'm convinced.
Doc
KateH
> "Féachadóir" wrote:
> > >The BO-Con? Glad I wasnt' there.
> >
> > Strictly speaking, the BÓ-Con. Those fadas make all the difference.
>
:)
I'm a little relieved that you cried "Uncle!" ........at the "olfactory
demonstration" level.
Kate(who KNOWS what lengths he'd have gone to)H :)
Paul Carr
"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
news:qvjhcvcp1ave82bgj...@4ax.com...
> Scríobh unki:
> often made out to be.
He believed in violence to achieve political ends. That makes him an
extremist in my books.
Paul Carr
Holly
>
> "Holly" <holly...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:CiLxa.2511$7g....@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>>
> > girls, now? Shouldn't a child believe she is beautiful without painting
> her
> > face? ...
> > >
> ...
>
> Many little girls like to use make-up of their own accord. Regrettable
> though it may be, they simply like to play at being grown ups.
Yes, getting into mother's makeup, shoes, clothes is part of playtime. The
results are amusing. Applying makeup to little girls and parading them in
front of an audience is a horse of a different color.
>Many
> children can't wait to be grown-ups.
That's natural. They want progressively more control over their lives.
>While many adults still wish they
> were children.
Retaining child-like qualities does not mean on remains childish.
>
> And of course a lot of this is to do with vicarious wish fulfillment
> on the part of the parents. As is often the case with the desire for
> a good education for the child, among other things.
It's best to try and leave the next generation better off than the last. In
the long run though, it's up to the new generation.
>
>
> > >
> > > And lord, those florescent dresses.
> > > > >
>
> >
> > Gold leaf is natural and beautiful. Add the gold designs to a simple
dark
> > green, red, black, or blue dress and it would be quite suitable. Have
the
> > hair flying or in braids and let the focus be on the foot work. Jaysus,
> how
> > can anybody pay attention to the foot work with all that other
technicolor
> > mess on a child. Beside, those websites selling the psychedelic stuff is
> > mostly for the yank dancing schools and you know it.
> > >
> > > ...
>
> ...
>
> Actually I wouldn't mind betting that if you looked at a local Irish
> community newspaper in any part of the world from Australia to the
> USA and Britain, during the Competition Season, you'd see photos of
> dancers in very similar outfits.
No doubt.
>
> The real irony being that for all the Celtic Insignia the step
> dances themselves, jigs, slip jigs, reels etc are a fairly recent
> 18th.c introduction.
Still, an old and worthwhile tradition.
>
>
> ...
>
> >
> > I'd prefer the "healthy and mildly competitive" with a fashion sense
> guided
> > by their parents.
>
> ...
>
> But their fashion sense *is* being guided by their parents. That's
> precisely what you're complaining of isn't it?
Sensible parents.
> And can you really imagine what they'd look like, if they were allowed
> to decide for themselves?
I believe they do and the parents don't know how to say "No."
>
> ...
>
> And if children "hang around" with their parents,
>
> ...
>
> But children don't want to hang around with their parents do they?
If they are comfortable discussing *anything* with their parents, they do.
If their friends can feel comfortable in their parents home, they do.
If they are learning from their parents, they do.
They creep away from the nest for their own interests, but you know where
they are and when they will be home. And you just say your prayers for the
few times when you know kids will still be kids.
> That's the whole problem. At least in this way they're kept fully
> occupied.
Music, dancing, art, sports etc. are all good.
>
> ...
>
> >
> > With all the rain in Ireland I doubt if anyone went long without a
rinsing
> > off.
> ...
>
> Oh I see. So you're now suggesting that parents should push their
> children out naked into the pouring rain in the middle of winter
> are you? You'd rather all these children should die of pneumonia
> than they should be smartly turned out for their dancing competitions.
Smartly?
>
> ...
>
> > And soap was invented as far back as 2800 BC, so....... Haven't you
> > heard the expression, "Water rots everything." It also can dry out the
> skin
> > and strip the hair of oils. Besides, it's time consuming to wash and dry
> > long hair. There is no harm done by combing and pin up long hair without
a
> > daily wash, or short hair for that matter. A birdbath in the creek was
> > probably quite refreshing. And on the colder days, heat some water over
> the
> > fire and wash up with it. It's best to believe one could survive under
> those
> > conditions, instead of how one would suffer.
>
> ...
>
> Clearly people survived, and probably quite happily, otherwise we
> wouldn't be here today. However what they regarded as acceptable standards
> of hygiene would probably induce feelings of nausea, at the very least, in
> the
> person of today. They weren't all chieftains wearing gold-brooches you
know.
> We're mainly talking peasants here. Very rustic peasants some of them.
The chieftains probably didn't smell too good either.
> > You seem to equate the Celtic Tiger with permissive and absentee
> > parenting.
> >
> >
>
> ...
>
> No I don't. What exactly have the Celtic Tiger, and permissive and
> absentee parenting got to do with any of this?
You talk of the past and how far Ireland has come. You have compared child
labor to the benefits of being a modern child in Ireland part of which is
defending made-up little girls in technicolor costumes. And you imply that
*children* should be left alone to make their own decisions.
Little girls should be dressed tastefully (boys too) and children need
opinion and guidance with their decision.
michael adams
>
>
> Yes, getting into mother's makeup, shoes, clothes is part of playtime. The
> results are amusing. Applying makeup to little girls and parading them in
> front of an audience is a horse of a different color.
>
Not having seen the pictures complained of, I can't actually comment,
ahem. But I think make-up is pretty general in all Dancing Competitions.
I think they start off ballroom dancing at a fairly young age as well
and I'd imagine the same goes for that also. If you've ever seen
ballet dancers or ice-dancers when practising - they wear odd knee
warmers, odd ankle warmers, torn tights and jumpers - looking like
complete tramps some of them. The "dressing up" is all part of the
actual performance I think, to really put them "on their toes".
...
> >
> > Actually I wouldn't mind betting that if you looked at a local Irish
> > community newspaper in any part of the world from Australia to the
> > USA and Britain, during the Competition Season, you'd see photos of
> > dancers in very similar outfits.
>
> No doubt.
> >
> > The real irony being that for all the Celtic Insignia the step
> > dances themselves, jigs, slip jigs, reels etc are a fairly recent
> > 18th.c introduction.
>
> Still, an old and worthwhile tradition.
> >
> >
...
Up until the 50's and stalwart efforts by the likes of Sean O'Riada and
Radio Eireann, traditional music was very much a minority interest, with
many of the *stars* working as postmen, teachers etc in the one village in
Sligo. And while the more vulgar aspects of the music nowadays may offend
the purists, its still probably better off surviving as a living tradition,
than a museum piece. A least excepting for the accordians anyway.
...
> > >
> > > With all the rain in Ireland I doubt if anyone went long without a
> rinsing
> > > off.
> > ...
> >
> > Oh I see. So you're now suggesting that parents should push their
> > children out naked into the pouring rain in the middle of winter
> > are you? You'd rather all these children should die of pneumonia
> > than they should be smartly turned out for their dancing competitions.
>
> Smartly?
> >
> > ...
Yes. Not dresssed in skins or hides.
...
> You talk of the past and how far Ireland has come. You have compared child
> labor to the benefits of being a modern child in Ireland part of which is
> defending made-up little girls in technicolor costumes. And you imply that
> *children* should be left alone to make their own decisions.
...
No I don't. Where did I say this? Where I would draw the line would be where
children were being forced into this, against their will. However I don't
think they'd get very far in competitive dancing at any grade if that were
the case. There may be exceptions I realise, but in general anyway.
michael adams
...
KateH
> > But children don't want to hang around with their parents do they?
Teenagers may not want to be around their parents much, but if younger kids
don't.....something's up.
KateH