Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Unki spearheads Scottish opposition to all things Blairite.

3 views
Skip to first unread message

Tom Walsh

unread,
Feb 25, 2003, 12:26:59 PM2/25/03
to

Fookin hell: I turned on the TV the other night to find that our own Tommy
Sheridan is leader of the Scottish Socialist Party. Looked pretty dapper in
a suit and tie. No mention of the alabaster buttocks though.

Tom

Aemon

unread,
Feb 26, 2003, 4:14:44 AM2/26/03
to

Yeh wha?

Aemon

Holly

unread,
Feb 26, 2003, 4:21:35 AM2/26/03
to

"Tom Walsh" <t...@ediacara.org> wrote in message
news:b3g622$96t$1...@dux.dundee.ac.uk...

Nigella must be doing the catering.


The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

unread,
Feb 26, 2003, 6:29:46 AM2/26/03
to
On 25 Feb 2003 17:26:59 +0000, Tom Walsh <t...@ediacara.org> wrote:

Where have you been? I've been getting amusement from this for years,
as well as complex and intellectual political debate, including
yelling "Hey, unki, ya fat bastard!" at him when I've seen him heading
into the Scottish parliament to fight the oppression of one-party rule
by central-belt apparachiks. His arrest record and relentless
self-promotion are a good laugh.

Gavin Bailey

--

Apply three phase AC 415V direct to MB. This work real good. How you know, you
ask? Simple, chip get real HOT. System not work, but no can tell from this.
Exactly same as before. Do it now. - Bart Kwan En

Tom Walsh

unread,
Feb 26, 2003, 9:03:39 AM2/26/03
to
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised writes:

> Where have you been?

Er, Ireland until about six months ago.

> I've been getting amusement from this for years,
> as well as complex and intellectual political debate, including
> yelling "Hey, unki, ya fat bastard!" at him when I've seen him heading
> into the Scottish parliament to fight the oppression of one-party rule
> by central-belt apparachiks. His arrest record and relentless
> self-promotion are a good laugh.

That sounds like our Plaster Bum alright. He strikes me as the type that has
a bust of Lenin on the mantelpiece at home.

Tom

unki

unread,
Feb 26, 2003, 10:40:42 AM2/26/03
to

Tom Walsh <t...@ediacara.org> wrote:
>
> Fookin hell: I turned on the TV the other night to find that our own Tommy
>Sheridan is leader of the Scottish Socialist Party. Looked pretty dapper
in
>a suit and tie.

PRESS RELEASE: 26 Feb. 2003

I wear the suit and not the kilt because the kilt represents the class-ridden
Clan system.


ENDS.

Tom Walsh

unread,
Feb 26, 2003, 12:03:51 PM2/26/03
to
"unki" <1...@12.12> writes:

> I wear the suit and not the kilt because the kilt represents the class-ridden
> Clan system.

Guid on ye, big maun.

Tom

NIgel Irritable

unread,
Feb 26, 2003, 12:12:53 PM2/26/03
to
occu...@bonkers.net (The Revolution Will Not Be Televised) wrote in message news:<3e5ca444...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...

> On 25 Feb 2003 17:26:59 +0000, Tom Walsh <t...@ediacara.org> wrote:
>
> > Fookin hell: I turned on the TV the other night to find that our own Tommy
> >Sheridan is leader of the Scottish Socialist Party. Looked pretty dapper in
> >a suit and tie. No mention of the alabaster buttocks though.
>
> Where have you been? I've been getting amusement from this for years,
> as well as complex and intellectual political debate, including
> yelling "Hey, unki, ya fat bastard!" at him when I've seen him heading
> into the Scottish parliament to fight the oppression of one-party rule
> by central-belt apparachiks. His arrest record and relentless
> self-promotion are a good laugh.

There is a lot more to Tommy Sheridan than self-promotion and a very
impressive arrest record.

Sheridan was a leader of the Militant tendency in Scotland, which
organised primarily in the most run-down housing schemes in Glasgow
and Dundee. When the Poll Tax was introduced he became the leader of
the biggest movement of civil disobedience Britain has ever seen - 18
million non-payers.

The tactics which Militant and the anti-poll tax unions in Scotland
used were simple. Don't pay and if they try setting the bailliffs on
you get a few hundred people outside your house or flat and see how
brave they are feeling.

A particular focus was the hated system of poindings and warrant
sales, which only existed in Scotland. Basically this system allowed
baillifs hold an impromptu sale, selling off the meagre possessions of
debtors at knockdown prices. Sheridan and other members of Militant
were elected to Glasgow city council from their jail cells after being
imprisoned for physically preventing warrant sales.

Since Sheridan was elected to the Scottish Parliament he has only
taken the average wage of a skilled worker from his salary, with the
rest going to the SSP and other labour causes (Joe Higgins, the
Socialist Party TD in Ireland does the same). The Scottish Socialist
Party is now running consistently at between 7% and 10% in the
national opinion polls (and a lot higher in Glasgow). Sheridan has
also been responsible for the one useful thing which the Scottish
Parliament has done - abolishing poindings and warrant sales.

Sheridan is an extremely popular man in the working class areas of
Scotland. He is a brilliant public speaker. He is also shall we say,
interested in his personal appearance. In an interview he was once
asked about the urban legend surrounding his use of tanning salons and
he replied "I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't take drugs, I have
one vice. I am however very vain."

(The subject of tanning salons in Glasgow deserves a thread of its
own. There seems to be one on every street corner).

Is mise le meas
Brian Cahill

Tom Walsh

unread,
Feb 26, 2003, 1:31:58 PM2/26/03
to
NIgel Irritable writes:

> interested in his personal appearance. In an interview he was once
> asked about the urban legend surrounding his use of tanning salons

The real question is: does he get a back, crack and sack wax to keep
the famous buttocks in their alabasterine magnificence? Can we expect
to see him turning up on The Salon anytime soon? I can imagine that
manager guy getting a very long lecture about overtime and the
minimum wage.

Tom

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

unread,
Feb 27, 2003, 6:36:39 AM2/27/03
to
On 26 Feb 2003 09:12:53 -0800, nigel_i...@yahoo.com (NIgel
Irritable) wrote:

>There is a lot more to Tommy Sheridan than self-promotion and a very
>impressive arrest record.

Not really, even though I supported him in his one-man poll tax
crusade.

>Sheridan was a leader of the Militant tendency in Scotland, which
>organised primarily in the most run-down housing schemes in Glasgow
>and Dundee.

But Brian, you forget the wonderful students who comprised most of the
active Milliants! I wonder why....

> When the Poll Tax was introduced he became the leader of
>the biggest movement of civil disobedience Britain has ever seen - 18
>million non-payers.

Sheridan was _not_ the leader of that movement, Brian, but he was very
effective at maneuvering his own PR on his send-me-to-jail on warrant
sales gimmick. The fact that the bourgeois scum like me didn't pay it
broke it, not the fact that it coincided with this week's protest
agenda from photogenic rent-a-Trot's checklist.

>The tactics which Militant and the anti-poll tax unions in Scotland
>used were simple. Don't pay and if they try setting the bailliffs on
>you get a few hundred people outside your house or flat and see how
>brave they are feeling.

You'll remember, then, how often those mobs *actually turned up* for
every warrant sale, then, Brian. I do.

>Since Sheridan was elected to the Scottish Parliament he has only
>taken the average wage of a skilled worker from his salary,

Fair play to him on that, though.

>Sheridan is an extremely popular man in the working class areas of
>Scotland.

Having lived in such areas, I'd say he was both popular with some and
detested by others. Millitant was not popular with local labour
groups and associations, Brian, as you well know, and they greatly
outnumbered the McTrots.

> He is a brilliant public speaker.

He's a forceful and dynamic public speaker, but he only has one basic
approach, bar the shouting, and that doesn't always work with
different audiences.

>He is also shall we say,
>interested in his personal appearance. In an interview he was once
>asked about the urban legend surrounding his use of tanning salons and
>he replied "I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't take drugs, I have
>one vice. I am however very vain."

It's the hairspray that I remember noticing. Personally, his
anti-nuke submarine protest a couple of years back impressed me no
end, if only because he got his hair soaked in salt-water which ruined
the coiffure. The man was prepared to make some sacrificies, fair
enough. But then he had been working out to look good in a wet-suit.

>(The subject of tanning salons in Glasgow deserves a thread of its
>own. There seems to be one on every street corner).

It's a working class thaang, Brian, spend enough time amongst the oiks
and you might appreciate this extends beyond the wegian hellholes.

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

unread,
Feb 27, 2003, 6:38:41 AM2/27/03
to
On 26 Feb 2003 14:03:39 +0000, Tom Walsh <t...@ediacara.org> wrote:

>> Where have you been?
>
> Er, Ireland until about six months ago.

You're not supposed to wander off the reservation. We may be forced
to send fat southern sheriffs in mirror shades after you. Boy.

> That sounds like our Plaster Bum alright. He strikes me as the type that has
>a bust of Lenin on the mantelpiece at home.

Whatever happened to the other half of Lenin's false comedy breasts
then? I blame Beria.

Tom Walsh

unread,
Feb 27, 2003, 7:39:07 AM2/27/03
to
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised writes:
> You're not supposed to wander off the reservation. We may be forced
> to send fat southern sheriffs in mirror shades after you. Boy.

Who's wandering? I'd never even set foot in Scotland until last May. I'm one of
those immigrants that Scotland is going to be needing a lot more of.

Tom

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

unread,
Feb 27, 2003, 8:03:45 AM2/27/03
to
On 27 Feb 2003 12:39:07 +0000, Tom Walsh <t...@ediacara.org> wrote:

>> You're not supposed to wander off the reservation. We may be forced
>> to send fat southern sheriffs in mirror shades after you. Boy.
>
> Who's wandering? I'd never even set foot in Scotland until last May. I'm one of
>those immigrants that Scotland is going to be needing a lot more of.

Fill my space if you're hard enough, big boy.

NIgel Irritable

unread,
Feb 27, 2003, 8:21:39 PM2/27/03
to
occu...@bonkers.net (The Revolution Will Not Be Televised) wrote in message news:<3e5df5da...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...

> >Sheridan was a leader of the Militant tendency in Scotland, which
> >organised primarily in the most run-down housing schemes in Glasgow
> >and Dundee.
>
> But Brian, you forget the wonderful students who comprised most of the
> active Milliants! I wonder why....

A fairly standard issue line of attack here Gavin and not even
accurate. I would have hoped for something a bit sharper. I know a
large number of people who were members of the Militant tendency in
Glasgow. Very, very few are or were students. Militant's support in
Glasgow was always based in the housing schemes. As a side issue, you
might like to look at where exactly Militant councillors were elected.
I think you'll find that it wasn't in the West End.



> > When the Poll Tax was introduced he became the leader of
> >the biggest movement of civil disobedience Britain has ever seen - 18
> >million non-payers.
>
> Sheridan was _not_ the leader of that movement, Brian, but he was very
> effective at maneuvering his own PR on his send-me-to-jail on warrant
> sales gimmick. The fact that the bourgeois scum like me didn't pay it
> broke it, not the fact that it coincided with this week's protest
> agenda from photogenic rent-a-Trot's checklist.

Here you are just showing a certain amount ignorance about how
non-payment campaigns actually work. They take a great deal of
organising. Militant (and its successor the Socialist Party) have a
lot of experience at it through the poll tax, and in Ireland the water
tax and bin tax campaigns.

There has to be a widespread basic view that the tax is unjust and
unfair, but converting that sentiment into mass non-payment is a very
difficult task. 18 million people don't just wake up one morning and
say, right I'm not paying that stupid tax. In Britain thousands and
thousands of activists had to work extremely hard to popularise the
idea of non-payment, to convince people that they could do it and to
reassure people in the face of an ever-changing governmental response.

This meant that those thousands and thousands of activists set up an
unbelievable number of local anti-poll tax unions. Those unions
coordinated activity through enormous leafletting networks allowing
the campaign to respond to government propaganda quickly. They stopped
baillifs and clogged court systems. Just where do you think the core
of those activists came from? They didn't drop from the sky.

Militant activists made up a large part of the core of the anti-poll
tax activists. Tommy Sheridan was a figurehead, certainly, but he was
a figurehead accepted by an enormous movement.

If you really are interested in this, I would suggest taking a look at
the article "The Lessons of the Water Tax" which you can find on the
Socialist Party website ( www.socialistparty.net ). It gives quite a
detailed insight into the logistics of the anti-water tax movement in
Dublin, which was a much smaller affair but should give you an idea.



> >The tactics which Militant and the anti-poll tax unions in Scotland
> >used were simple. Don't pay and if they try setting the bailliffs on
> >you get a few hundred people outside your house or flat and see how
> >brave they are feeling.
>
> You'll remember, then, how often those mobs *actually turned up* for
> every warrant sale, then, Brian. I do.

It is a fact that large numbers of warrant sales were prevented across
Scotland. That along with the clogging of the court system in England
meant that towards the end of the campaign the baillifs companies were
almost universally in favour of abolition. They were just losing too
much money trying to enforce the unenforceable.

> >Sheridan is an extremely popular man in the working class areas of
> >Scotland.
>
> Having lived in such areas, I'd say he was both popular with some and
> detested by others. Millitant was not popular with local labour
> groups and associations, Brian, as you well know, and they greatly
> outnumbered the McTrots.

Another myth. The right wing of the Labour Party hated Militant. The
left wing by and large saw us as allies. Militant candidates for the
Labour NEC consistently scored the highest votes of any non
parliamentary candidates, year in, year out. That wasn't because there
were a hundred thousand odd Militant members kicking about, more's the
pity. Where Militant had influence in the Labour movement, in
Liverpool, in Constituency Labour Parties or in Unions, it was almost
never as an absolute majority but instead as one of the strongest
components of a broad left alliance.



> > He is a brilliant public speaker.
>
> He's a forceful and dynamic public speaker, but he only has one basic
> approach, bar the shouting, and that doesn't always work with
> different audiences.

I've listened to a lot of speeches. And I mean a LOT. It's one of the
hazards of being an activist. It's nothing short of soul destroying
how bad most speeches are. Of all the public speakers I've heard, left
or right, Sheridan would go in my top ten.



> >He is also shall we say,
> >interested in his personal appearance. In an interview he was once
> >asked about the urban legend surrounding his use of tanning salons and
> >he replied "I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't take drugs, I have
> >one vice. I am however very vain."
>
> It's the hairspray that I remember noticing. Personally, his
> anti-nuke submarine protest a couple of years back impressed me no
> end, if only because he got his hair soaked in salt-water which ruined
> the coiffure. The man was prepared to make some sacrificies, fair
> enough. But then he had been working out to look good in a wet-suit.

A Socialist Party member happened to tell a story today about the time
Sheridan and some other Scottish Militants were staying in her flat in
London years ago. She swears that she has never met anyone who can
spend as long in the bathroom as Tommy.



> >(The subject of tanning salons in Glasgow deserves a thread of its
> >own. There seems to be one on every street corner).
>
> It's a working class thaang, Brian, spend enough time amongst the oiks
> and you might appreciate this extends beyond the wegian hellholes.

Not really. Every city in Britain or Ireland has it's tanning salons,
but they seem to be Glasgow's major industry. There is nothing like
the same number in Dublin or Dundee or anywhere else that I've been.

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

unread,
Feb 28, 2003, 4:33:55 AM2/28/03
to
On 27 Feb 2003 17:21:39 -0800, nigel_i...@yahoo.com (NIgel
Irritable) wrote:

[Miliant = Students]

>A fairly standard issue line of attack here Gavin and not even
>accurate. I would have hoped for something a bit sharper. I know a
>large number of people who were members of the Militant tendency in
>Glasgow. Very, very few are or were students.

My experience of them in Aberdeen, Dundee and Birmingham was almost
exclusively student-based [professional students, movingout of the
cosy world of NUS nuclear-disarmament motions]. But I bow to your
superior knowledge.

>Militant's support in
>Glasgow was always based in the housing schemes.

Militant's support always gravitated around which local labour
association could be "subverted" by them. [Not that I had a problem
with that; the ones I knew of did that by straightforward
constitutional and democratic means, although they did reveal the odd
streak of petty tyranny stifling dissent afterwards]

>As a side issue, you
>might like to look at where exactly Militant councillors were elected.
>I think you'll find that it wasn't in the West End.

Neither were their labour hosts....

>> > When the Poll Tax was introduced he became the leader of
>> >the biggest movement of civil disobedience Britain has ever seen - 18
>> >million non-payers.
>>
>> Sheridan was _not_ the leader of that movement, Brian, but he was very
>> effective at maneuvering his own PR on his send-me-to-jail on warrant
>> sales gimmick. The fact that the bourgeois scum like me didn't pay it
>> broke it, not the fact that it coincided with this week's protest
>> agenda from photogenic rent-a-Trot's checklist.
>
>Here you are just showing a certain amount ignorance about how
>non-payment campaigns actually work. They take a great deal of
>organising. Militant (and its successor the Socialist Party) have a
>lot of experience at it through the poll tax, and in Ireland the water
>tax and bin tax campaigns.

Here you are showing a certain amount of ignorance of how the poll-tax
non-payment campaign actually worked, at least in Scotland when people
like me didn't pay it. The only reason it worked is that the
constituency involved transcended the customary marginalised lefties
and bit deep into the mainstream. Compare this with other Sheridan PR
campaigns, like nunclear disarmament. I actually have some time and
some respect for Sheridan, but don't tell me he actually led or
comprehensively represented the mass movement then, which consisted of
millions more than the activist and marginal leftie constitutency that
he normally operates within. The non-payment campaign was far bigger
and more widespread than the hard core of wild lefties who were going
to oppose everything anyway. Certainly, Sheridan did reach a bigger
audience and resonate with them, but to claim the defeat of the poll
tax through Militant agency is just downright wrong. I was there,
Brian.

>There has to be a widespread basic view that the tax is unjust and
>unfair, but converting that sentiment into mass non-payment is a very
>difficult task.

Wrong. Most people who had to pay it were new targets, i.e.
non-ratepayer tennants and they just avoided paying it as long as
possible. Non-payment was less significant than delayed payment
through evasion which happened on such a massive scale that it totally
defeated the concept as a revenue-earner. This was done by millions
of people without their direct participation or allignment with
Sheridan's campaign. It relied on a widespread acceptance of
administering a new tax-paying constituency, and absent this
acceptance it was doomed to be ineffective. Couple that with a
political backlash from the bourgois centre that was critical for the
continuance of Tory rule, and it was never going to have the lifespan
required to grind down the opposition.

>18 million people don't just wake up one morning and
>say, right I'm not paying that stupid tax. In Britain thousands and
>thousands of activists had to work extremely hard to popularise the
>idea of non-payment, to convince people that they could do it and to
>reassure people in the face of an ever-changing governmental response.

I don't doubt that activists played a role, but this merely reflected
a pre-existing disposition. Don't forget apathy, either.

>This meant that those thousands and thousands of activists set up an
>unbelievable number of local anti-poll tax unions. Those unions
>coordinated activity through enormous leafletting networks allowing
>the campaign to respond to government propaganda quickly. They stopped
>baillifs and clogged court systems. Just where do you think the core
>of those activists came from? They didn't drop from the sky.

Of course not, but they also had no contact (beyond cold-shot mailings
and the traditonal fly-posters on pedestrian crossings) with the
majority of people who didn't pay or delayed payment for several
financial years. Claim credit, by all means, but do it in proportion
to what was achieved by which agency. Inflating the role of activism
just makes their other failures aside from the poll-tax look more
discreditable. I'd be more tolerant of the limitations of activism
myself.

>Militant activists made up a large part of the core of the anti-poll
>tax activists. Tommy Sheridan was a figurehead, certainly, but he was
>a figurehead accepted by an enormous movement.

He was an occasional TV cheerleading presence for the majority who
destroyed it. I think his role was creditable enough, and far better
than the vast majority of politicians personally, but you are wildly
overstating his actual impact and thje impact of the activists
involved in "the campaign". Outside "the campaign", and independent
of it despite their interactions, was a mass popular movement that the
"campaign" did not create, mobilise or sustain by itself.

>If you really are interested in this, I would suggest taking a look at
>the article "The Lessons of the Water Tax"

Sorry Brian, I was there. You are talking about my personal
experiences. No offence meant, I'm quite happy to give the nod to
hairy Trots so far as their actually had an impact - and they did -
but not to the extent you're claiming.

>> >The tactics which Militant and the anti-poll tax unions in Scotland
>> >used were simple. Don't pay and if they try setting the bailliffs on
>> >you get a few hundred people outside your house or flat and see how
>> >brave they are feeling.
>>
>> You'll remember, then, how often those mobs *actually turned up* for
>> every warrant sale, then, Brian. I do.
>
>It is a fact that large numbers of warrant sales were prevented across
>Scotland. That along with the clogging of the court system in England
>meant that towards the end of the campaign the baillifs companies were
>almost universally in favour of abolition. They were just losing too
>much money trying to enforce the unenforceable.

The vast majority of people who didn't pay until the absolute last
minute and changed address to avoid payment (or just did so in the
normal course of events) and who shagged the system as a consequence,
did so without Sheridan doing his WWF wrestling act with the sheriff
and baliff's officers in front of the TV cameras outside their homes.

Now give me one minute to recall the glow of jubilant satisfaction I
felt when Thatcher fell as a result of it all.

>> >Sheridan is an extremely popular man in the working class areas of
>> >Scotland.
>>
>> Having lived in such areas, I'd say he was both popular with some and
>> detested by others. Millitant was not popular with local labour
>> groups and associations, Brian, as you well know, and they greatly
>> outnumbered the McTrots.
>
>Another myth.

Heh, I'm suprised you can say that with a straight face.

> The right wing of the Labour Party hated Militant.

Most of the rest hated them by the early nineties and were pleased
enough to get a dictatorial bunch of fanatics deposed from their local
drinking clubs, and resume dictatorial rule by less openly-ideological
fanatics.

> The
>left wing by and large saw us as allies.

That's not why Labour purged them, Brian. That's not why said purges
were accepted by the larger constituency. Militant were excellent
scapegoats for the wilderness years of the '80's for the majority, and
with some justification.

>> > He is a brilliant public speaker.
>>
>> He's a forceful and dynamic public speaker, but he only has one basic
>> approach, bar the shouting, and that doesn't always work with
>> different audiences.
>
>I've listened to a lot of speeches. And I mean a LOT. It's one of the
>hazards of being an activist. It's nothing short of soul destroying
>how bad most speeches are. Of all the public speakers I've heard, left
>or right, Sheridan would go in my top ten.

I like his brazen style in parliament, actually - it's better than the
soporific norm, and it does expose how few MSP's can come near him in
terms of projecting conviction and passion. He does have a tendency
to misread TV audiences and comes on too strong. Overall, I do
certainly rate him, especially when he does make the effort to get the
stridency under control. He tends to let that go a bit in public -
I've seen him interviewed by TV on the street outside Hollyrood once
where I could hear him a hundred yards away, and the sound-man was
edging up the royal mile to get some distance between him and the boom
mike.

I was watching the news that night, but my background chant of "Hey
Unki, ya bastard!" didn't get aired for some reason.

>> >(The subject of tanning salons in Glasgow deserves a thread of its
>> >own. There seems to be one on every street corner).
>>
>> It's a working class thaang, Brian, spend enough time amongst the oiks
>> and you might appreciate this extends beyond the wegian hellholes.
>
>Not really. Every city in Britain or Ireland has it's tanning salons,
>but they seem to be Glasgow's major industry. There is nothing like
>the same number in Dublin or Dundee or anywhere else that I've been.

There are a more than a few in Dundee in my experience, try
Dryborough. There are plenty here in Geordieland as well, all over
the place as dense as kebab shobs. But I will grant you that the
People's Republic of Wegia is pretty bad.

Hurry up and egg Blair for me.

NIgel Irritable

unread,
Feb 28, 2003, 11:46:08 AM2/28/03
to
occu...@bonkers.net (The Revolution Will Not Be Televised) wrote in message news:<3e5f24d2...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...

> >As a side issue, you
> >might like to look at where exactly Militant councillors were elected.
> >I think you'll find that it wasn't in the West End.
>
> Neither were their labour hosts....

You are missing my point here. I am talking about the Militants who
have been elected to Glasgow City Council outside of the Labour Party.



> >Here you are just showing a certain amount ignorance about how
> >non-payment campaigns actually work. They take a great deal of
> >organising. Militant (and its successor the Socialist Party) have a
> >lot of experience at it through the poll tax, and in Ireland the water
> >tax and bin tax campaigns.
>
> Here you are showing a certain amount of ignorance of how the poll-tax
> non-payment campaign actually worked, at least in Scotland when people
> like me didn't pay it. The only reason it worked is that the
> constituency involved transcended the customary marginalised lefties
> and bit deep into the mainstream.

I know. The basic ingredients were:
(1) Massive antipathy to the tax
(2) Organising the beginnings of non-payment.
(3) people who had never had any contact with their local anti-poll
tax union beyond leaflets through their doors realise that people they
know aren't paying, that their neighbours aren't paying and that they
can get away with not paying.

The likes of Militant had their impact soley in terms of that second
ingredient and without serious organisation it is highly unlikely that
the movement would have shifted from step (1) to step (3). It is also
true to say that without the widespread antipathy to the tax, which
was not a result of anything Militant or the Anti-Poll Tax Unions did
or said, that attempts to organise non-payment would have been futile.

The process was identical in the case of the water tax struggle in
Dublin or the present bin tax.


> > The
> >left wing by and large saw us as allies.
>
> That's not why Labour purged them, Brian. That's not why said purges
> were accepted by the larger constituency. Militant were excellent
> scapegoats for the wilderness years of the '80's for the majority, and
> with some justification.

That's precisely why the Labour right couldn't purge us until the
party as a whole had begun its long march to the right. The
non-Militant left consistently allied with us during the attempts to
purge us. When the right gained control of the party, they gained the
ability to start the purges.

As I said in my last post, Militant candidates for the Labour NEC
consistently scored much higher votes than any other non-MP
candidates. That was because Militant had a lot of sympathy amongst
the broad Labour left.

Walnut

unread,
Feb 28, 2003, 1:21:25 PM2/28/03
to
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised writes:

> Fill my space if you're hard enough, big boy.

I'm working on it but there's only so many haggis suppers a man can eat in one
week, and I still haven't tracked down a copy of Emerson Lake and Palmer's
version of Flower of Scotland.

Tom

Aemon

unread,
Feb 28, 2003, 7:40:01 PM2/28/03
to

A Kilt would show off your alabaster buttocks more though...especially
on a windy day or as you're walking up some stairs.

Aemon

Sajo Markecz

unread,
Mar 1, 2003, 10:36:49 PM3/1/03
to

"NIgel Irritable" <nigel_i...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bf96d35.03022...@posting.google.com...


There are many similarities between Osama - bin - Laden , Hasan - bin -
Sabah , Charles Manson , and Joseph Smith . Charles Manson believed that the
blacks , or very dark brown Africans , were the sons of Ham , one of Noah's
sons , whom Noah cursed to be the ancestor of slaves [ Genesis 9 : 18 - 29 ]
. No where in Genesis 9 : 18 - 29 is skin colour mentioned , and in the Acts
of the Apostles , chapter 8 : 26 - 39 , it is said that St. Philip the
Evangelist converted to Christianity the treasurer of the Queen of the
Ethiopians , Candace . Charles Manson was also a statutory
"polygamist"/concubinist/rapist , as some post - 1890 Mormon splinter groups
still are to this day. A statutory "polygamist"/concubinist/rapist is
someone who marries or has as a concubine more than one female under the age
of 16 at the same time . " The Family " that Charles Manson gave members of
his cult might have been an allusion on Manson's part to Ephesians 3 : 14 -
15 , where the Apostle St. Paul says : " For this reason I bow my knees to
the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ , from whom the whole family in heaven
and earth is named ..." The Prophet Muhammad , the founder of Islam ,
allowed the Muslims to own slaves and to have a maximum of four wives at the
same time . To this day , many southern Sudanese Christians and polytheists
are sold into slavery to Saudi Arabian sheiks by the northern Sudanese
Muslims . Hasan - bin - Sabah was the leader of a Muslim terrorist group
called the " Assassins ," or " hashashins ," Persian or Iranian for " hemp -
eaters . " These Assassins belonged to the Ismaili denomination of the
Shiite division of Islam . These Muslim terrorists killed their enemies
while under the influence of hashish , a drug made from the hemp plant .
Hasan - bin - Sabah was alleged by both his Muslim and Christian Crusader
enemies to use hashish and belly - dancing concubines and wives from his
harem who performed sexual favours in order to gain recruits for his
terrorist organization . Hasan - bin - Sabah was called " The Old Man of the
Mountain " because he had as his base a mountain castle - fortress called "
Alamut ," meaning " eagle's nest ," located in what is today the nation -
state of Iran .

The reason why the mainstream Mormon Church , officially known as The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter - Day Saints , abolished polygamy in 1890 , was
because that was one of the requirements that had to be met in order to
allow Utah to gain the status of a state , even though freedom of religious
expression is protected by the U.S. Constitution . Joseph Smith , the
founder of the Mormon church , based his favourable views on polygamy on the
fact that many famous Jews mentioned in the Old Testament practiced polygamy
, and if memory serves , they also practiced concubinage [ see 1 Kings 11 :
1 - 13 , Galatians chapter 4 ] . Joseph Smith also claimed that Jesus Christ
had three wives at the same time , and that they were Mary of Bethany ,
Martha , and Mary Magdalene , also known as Mary of Magdala . Joseph Smith
believed that only members of the Mormon church were true Jews , and that
the non - Mormon Jews , the non - Mormon Christians , and the Muslims ,
pagans or polytheists , agnostics , and atheists were all " Gentiles ."
There have been several Christian groups and cults throughout history who
have claimed that sexual intercourse is some kind of mystical , religious ,
and emotionally as well as physically ecstatic experience . They have
included the Puritan sects and cults called the Ranters and Antinomians [
"antinomos," Greek for "anti - law." ] . I personally do not believe that
the Apostle St. Paul's teaching in Romans 10 : 13 , " that whomsoever calls
on the name of the LORD will be saved ," is a justification to shout the
word " God " when having a sexual orgasm , and then claim that it is an
action done in the faith . I also do not believe that the Apostle St. Paul's
teaching in Romans 4 : 15 , " that where there is no law , there is no sin ,
" is a justification to walk around nakedly because Adam and Eve once did so
unashamedly before Satan , the fallen angel , disguised as a snake [
Revelation 12 : 7 - 9 ] , tricked them into eating the fruit of forbidden
knowledge , thereby causing Adam and Eve to lose their innocence and
immortality [ Romans chapter 7 , and Song of Songs ] . I also do not believe
that because God the Father is physically speaking neither a man nor a woman
it is morally justifiable to engage in bisexual , homosexual , and lesbian
sexual intercourse . The evolutionary purpose of sexual intercourse for
humans is to produce offspring . However , a literal , fundamentalist
interpretation of the Bible can sometimes lead to sin , as those Christians
who engage in incest might argue that the children of Adam and Eve and the
grandchildren of Noah had to have had sexual intercourse with each other in
order to have offspring .

Charles Manson , who sometimes believed that he was the Son of Man , the
Second Coming of Jesus Christ opening the seven seals mentioned in the New
Testament book of Revelation , the Parousia , was also a strong admirer of
Adolf Hitler , and one of the possible reasons why Charles Manson carved a
swastika in his forehead , was because he was angry with those Jews who
refused to believe that he was the Second Coming of Jesus Christ . Jesus
Christ told His disciples in Matthew 10 : 1 - 15 to first preach the Gospel
of Christianity to the Jews of Israel , and later Jesus told His disciples
to preach the Christian Gospel to all the nations of the world in Matthew 28
: 18 - 20 . However , Jesus Christ would not have sanctioned the use of
force and violence in converting people to Christianity , as He had taught
His disciples in Matthew 7 : 12 and Luke 6 : 31 to do towards others as we
would want them to do to us . Charles Manson was of Scotch - Irish Baptist
ancestry . Charles Manson was a Nazi who decided to use the Hippies because
they were so easy to mislead , being for the most part usually unwise and
easily bought with drugs and sexual favours .The real reason why Charles
Manson was angry with the police was because they refused to make him the
Chief of the Gestapo , with the power to send to the gas chambers those Jews
who refused to believe that he was the Second Coming of Jesus Christ . Jesus
Christ said in Matthew 23 : 37 - 39 the following : " O Jerusalem ,
Jerusalem , the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to
her ! How often I wanted to gather your children together , as a hen gathers
her chicks under her wings , but you were not willing ! " See ! Your house
is left to you desolate ; " For I say to you , you shall see Me no more till
you say , ' Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD ! ' " For
Charles Manson , the true "pigs" were any one who opposed his views ,
especially the politically correct , although to some extent Manson was
justified in his hostility towards the politically correct . Charles Manson
was also a believer in reincarnation . According to Luke 1 : 11 - 19 and
Matthew 17 : 1 - 13 , St. John the Baptist was the Prophet Elijah returned
to Earth to prepare people for the first coming of the prophesied Messiah of
the Old Testament . Manson might have believed on occasions that he was
another John the Baptist , sent to prepare the way for the Second Coming of
Jesus Christ . John the Baptist said in Matthew 3 : 7 to the ancient Israeli
Jewish sects called the Pharisees and Sadducees this , " Brood of vipers !
Who told you to flee from the wrath to come ? " Manson also on occasions
believed that he was either Nathan Bedford Forrest , the southern U.S.
Confederate cavalry general of the U.S. Civil War [ 1861 - 1865 ] who was
also a war criminal and a founder of the original 1866 Ku Klux Klan , or
John Wilkes Booth , the Shakespearen actor who assassinated Abraham Linclon
, reincarnated . The major enemies for the Ku Klux Klan are Afro - Americans
, Jews , members of the Roman Catholic denomination of Christianity , the
Free Masons , liberal Democrats as opposed to southern U.S. Conservative
Democrats , and the Communists . My personal theory on the issue of
reincarnation and regression to past lives under hypnosis is that possibly
memories of one soul that has departed from a dead body are transferred to
another soul in a living body , and not necessarily that of near or distant
relatives , although all people are distant relatives of each other by means
of evolution over many generations.

During the Second World War , many Iraqi military officers were pro - Axis
[ Germany , Italy , and Japan ] in their sympathies , and the British Army
in 1941 overthrew the pro - Hitler Iraqi military dictatorship . Many Muslim
Arab Palestinians were also understandably pro - Hitler during the Second
World War , opposed to the large - scale Jewish immigration to Palestine
that had been going on during the British League of Nations mandate of
Palestine from 1918 - 1948 , since many Zionist Jews wished to reestablish
the ancient nation of Israel , which had declined after the then pagan or
polytheist Romans destroyed the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem in A.D. 70, a
revolt that had largely been begun by those Jews who refused to convert to
Christianity or Greco - Roman paganism . After Reza Shah Pahlavi of Iran
refused in 1941 to allow the British to use the Trans - Iranian Railway to
bring supplies to their war - time ally , the Soviet Union , the British and
Soviets sent their military to occupy Iran for the remainder of the war
until . Reza Shah Pahlavi was forced to abdicate in favour of his son Shah
Mohammed Reza Pahlavi , who signed a war - time treaty with the British and
Soviets . Mohammed Reza Pahlavi was the last Shah of Iran , overthrown in
1979 by the fundamentalist , fanatical Islamist revolution led by the
Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini . The presence of these troops in Iran during
the Second World War heightened strongly nationalistic and pro - Axis
sympathy among many Iranians , made worse by the fact that both Russia and
Britain had long held colonial ambitions towards Iran . Ironically enough ,
the Cold War superpower rivals , the U.S.A. and the U.S.S.R. , both backed
Iraq in its war against Iran from 1980 - 1988 .

The great split within the Muslim world is between the Sunni and Shiite and
divisions of Islam . The Sunnis are the " Protestant " equivalent of Islam ,
as they believe that any suitably qualified Muslim adult male can succeed
the Prophet Muhammad as Qaliph or supreme spiritual leader of the Islamic
world , whereas the Shiites believe that only the direct descendants of
Muhammad can qualify for this role . Most Muslims are Sunnis , including
Osama - bin - Laden , his Arabian peninsula Al - Qaida or Al - Qaeda
supporters , and their Afghan Taliban protectors . The Shiites form the
majority of the Muslim population in Iran , Iraq , and a large minority of
the population in Lebanon . However , only in Iran are the Shiites in
control of the government . In Iraq , a Sunni Arab Muslim minority , located
mainly in central Iraq around and within Baghdad , controls the Iraqi
government . The wealthy Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein , with his many
palaces , is a Sunni Arab Muslim . The Shiite Marsh Arabs of southern Iraq
and the Sunni Kurdish [ Kurdish is an Iranian dialect with many Arab and
Turkish loan words ] of northern Iraq are bitterly opposed to the rule of
Saddam Hussein and the ruling clique of the Sunni Muslim Arab Iraqis based
in Baghdad . During the Iraq - Iran War of 1980 - 1988 , most Shiite Marsh
Arabs of Iraq stayed relatively loyal to Saddam Hussein , but the Sunni
Kurds of Iraq allied themselves with the Shiite Iranians , leading to the
terrible reprisal by the Iraqi central government with chemical weapons .
Personally , I believe that neither the Iraqis or the Iranians can be
trusted with nuclear , chemical , and biological weapons , which , if they
were ever allowed to develop , they would probably use against Israel ,
which itself has a large nuclear arsenal , thereby leading to a Middle
Eastern nuclear war that would pollute the oil wells of the Middle East ,
and the result would be serious world inflation that would hit the poor
nations of the world especially hard . Should a nuclear armed missile hit an
oil well , clouds of radioactive contaminated black smoke from that oil well
would travel far into the atmosphere , and would return to earth as
radioactive contaminated acid rain .

However , the Islamic world does not have a monopoly on ultimately
religiously inspired anti - Jewish sentiment , even though the Prophet
Muhammad turned against the Jews after his hopes for their conversion to
Islam on a large scale failed to eventuate . The Prophet Muhammad also had
the same hopes towards the Christians . Martin Luther the German published
in 1543 an essay called " On the Jews and Their Lies ," in which Luther
urged that Jewish synagogues be burnt , because most of the Jews refused to
convert to Christianity on a large scale , which Martin Luther hoped would
be a sign of the return of Jesus Christ in the near future . In 1938 , in
Nazi Germany , on Kristallnacht [ Crystalnight , or The Night of Broken
Glass ] , many Jewish synagogues were burnt , as Martin Luther had urged in
his often reprinted and preached 1543 essay called " On the Jews and Their
Lies ," as this essay was often preached by most German Lutheran pastors ,
with a few exceptions , until 1945 . After the German federal election of
the 5th of March , 1933 , Alfred von Hugenberg , the leader of the mainly
Lutheran laypersons' [ non - pastors ] " German National Peoples' Party ,"
along with Baron Franz von Papen , leader of the mainly Catholic laypersons'
" Center Party ," formed a coalition with the Nazis , in order to outvote
the Communists and Social Democrats . The Nazis gained about 44% of the
seats in the lower house of the German federal parliament , the Reichstag ,
in the German federal election of the 5th of March , 1933 . From 1929 - 1933
, the Nazis gained the largest votes in German state elections where the
Lutherans formed the majority of the states' population . Between 1929 -
1933 , these following German states , all of them with a mainly Lutheran
population , had state governments where the Nazis were either coalition
leaders or partners : Braunschweig [ Brunswick in English ] , Mecklenburg ,
Mecklenburg - Strelitz , Lubeck , Thuringia , Saxony - Anhalt , Harzburg ,
Oldenburg , and Lippe . Only the German state of Schleswig - Holstein ,
another mainly Lutheran state , had a state legislature between 1929 - 1933
, where the Nazis had a majority of the seats between 1929 - 1933 .
Schleswig - Holstein had been taken from Denmark by Germany in a war that
had broken out in 1864 , and in 1920 , the northern third of Schleswig was
returned to Denmark after a referendum had been held on the issue .One of
the reasons why Germany , out of all other nations , had the Nazis come to
power , was because Germany lacked a strong democratic tradition . Between
1850 - 1919 , the German state of Brandenburg - Prussia had a three class
electoral law , although the state of Bavaria had introduced universal adult
male suffrage in 1904 , followed by Baden - Wurttemberg [ formerly Swabia ]
, in 1906 .The German state governments nominated the members of the German
federal upper house , the Bundesrat , which , along with the German
Chancellor and Kaiser had final veto powers over the German federal lower
house , the Bundestag .

Most of the Japanese are Mahayana Buddhists and Shintoists at the same time
. The Mahayana Buddhists are the Protestants of Buddhism , as opposed to the
Theravada Buddhists , who are the Catholics of Buddhism . The Mahayana
Buddhists believe that members of the Buddhist laity , as well as members of
the Buddhist monkhood , can achieve nirvana more quickly . The Mahayana
Buddhists also tend to place greater emphasis on the sincerity of a
believer's faith , the relationship between motives and methods , and the
role of divine grace , then Theravada Buddhists do . In 1925 universal adult
male suffrage or voting rights was introduced for national elections for the
first time in the history of Japan , although by 1941 Japan had become a
one - party state military dictatorship . Since 1909 , the martial art of
judo , which traces its ancestry to the samurai martial art of jujitsu , has
been a compulsory subject in Japanese schools , although it was banned as a
compulsory subject in Japanese schools from 1945 - 1950 . After 1945 , the
requirement of all able - bodied Japanese males over the age of 21 to do
three years of compulsory military service , was abolished , although the
martial arts still figure prominently in the training of the members of
Japan's voluntary Self - Defense Forces and police force to this day . The
three techniques of judo are nagewaza [ throwing ] , katamewaza [
wrestling ] , and atemiwaza [ punching and kicking ] . Atemiwaza may only be
taught to judokas above the rank of white belt , and may only be used by
them in training and self - defense , but never in judo sporting contests .
During the Second World War , when low on bullets and food , the Japanese
soldiers would often launch a banzai bayonet charge and judo - atemiwaza
attack , preferring a heroic death to humiliating surrender .

Heinrich Himmler , the leader of the Gestapo , once ridiculously tried to
prove that the Japanese are undercover Aryans , since the Japanese racially
mixed with the indigenous peoples of the Japanese Home Islands , the Ainu ,
who once had some Caucasian - like physical features . Today , there are few
or no Ainu without some Japanese ancestry . The Japanese themselves are a
mixture of Altaic people [ speakers of the closely related Korean ,
Manchurian , Tungus , Inner Mongolian [ Chinese province ] , and Outer
Mongolian [ Russian occupied from 1916 - 1991 ] languages , and the Malay
people , including the Indonesians and Filipinos . The southern Chinese ,
Taiwanese Chinese , and Vietnamese , Laotian , Cambodian and Thai languages
show a heavy Malay substratum , a result of racial mixing between indigenous
or earlier arrived people and foreign invaders . Since albinos are the only
true whites , ultra - nationalist Japanese political and religious groups ,
especially those that try to combine Buddhist and Shintoist teachings with
Christianity , should try to hire genetic engineers to invent albino skinned
Ainus who are immune to sunburn , because of the Transfiguration of Jesus
Christ , when " His clothes turned became as white as the light ," [ Matthew
17 : 2 ] , and with slanted eye folds retained , because of the miracle of
the eye of the needle mentioned in Mark 10 : 25 - 27. I am being sarcastic
here . Shoko Asahara and the Aum Shinrikyo or Aum Supreme Truth sect comes
to mind . Maybe the martial art of judo should also be genetically encoded
into the Japanese by means of genetic engineering , because of David and
Goliath , to be sarcastic again .

As much as I hate Nazism , I also hate Communism . Proverbs 4 : 27 in the
Old Testament says that we should not turn to the right or the left , but
that we should remove our feet from evil . Proverbs 19 : 10 in the Old
Testament says that it is not fitting for a fool to enjoy luxury , much less
for a servant to rule over princes . With the long - term economic legacy of
Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot , I can see why . Jesus Christ said in Mark 10 :
17 - 27 that nothing is impossible with God , and that God can save a rich
person who follows the Ten Commandments . According to Proverbs 30 : 8 - 9 ,
it is morally safest to be neither rich nor poor , because the rich might be
tempted to deny God and the poor might be tempted to steal . An excess of
material possessions can lead to spiritual and moral complacency , and
hunger can lead to theft . Usury is the sin of lending money on interest to
the poor according to Proverbs 22 : 7 and Proverbs 22 : 26 - 27 , but what
about lending money on interest to the middle class and the rich for
business expansion purposes ? According to 2 Timothy 3 : 16 - 17 , all of
the Bible is inspired by God [ see also Ephesians 2 : 8 - 10 , 1 Timothy 2 :
1 - 4 , 2 Peter 3 : 9 , John 5 : 24 , John 3 : 16 , Mark 9 : 23 - 24 ,
Romans 10 : 9 , Luke chapter 15 , Luke 19 : 1 - 10 , Proverbs 13 : 13 ,
Proverbs 14 : 26 - 27 , Proverbs 19 : 23 , 1 Corinthians 12 : 3 , and the
Acts of the Apostles 9 : 1 - 18 ] .

In the U.S.A. , the voters have the constitutional right under the Second
Bill of Rights to bear arms as members of a well regulated state militia ,
for example , the U.S. National Guard , which the U.S. Supreme Court
interpreted as being a safeguard intended by the American law makers of the
1780's to protect the states from any likelihood that the U.S. federal
government would become dictatorial , although the state , county , and
municipal governments are just as likely to become dictatorial , as the
southern U.S. states often treated their black minorities in a dictatorial
manner . The U.S. National Guard and the posse comitatus of the U.S. Sheriff
traces its historical origins to the county or shire and municipal or
borough Trained Band army reserve and volunteer mounted yeoman constabulary
of the old English miltia system , along with the liverymen , coachmen ,
footmen , doormen of the English aristocracy and guild masters , and the
comparatively light cavalry armed retainers or bodyguards of ancient English
warrior - aristocrats or warlord chieftains . St . Paul the Apostle wrote in
his epistle to the Romans , chapter 13 : 1 - 7 that all authorities who
wield the sword are appointed by God to enforce the law . The word
"authorities" is a plural word . However , I still believe that rioters
should be dispersed by firing rubber coated metal bullets into their legs ,
stomachs , and chests , with the use of scopes for accurate aiming and
semi - automatic rifles to control the rate of fire . The safety of the riot
police comes before the safety of rioters , because peaceful and legal
protesters lose many civil rights when they decide to become violent rioters
and cowardly mob tyrants .


0 new messages