Annual Sean South commemoration
Harry Merrick
> Annual Sean South commemoration
>
> THE annual Sean South Commemoration takes place in Limerick this coming
> Sunday, January 5.
How bizarre!
>
>
> The main speaker at the commemoration will be Aengus Ó Snodaigh, who was
> elected as a TD for the Dublin South Central constituency in last year's
> General Election.
Angus Snoddy you mean? Knew him well!
>
>
> The parade for the ceremony will assemble at Bedford Row at 2.45pm on Sunday
> January 5 and, led by a colour party and the Youghal Republican Flute Band,
> will proceed to the Republican Plot at Mount St Lawrence Cemetery.
Well I just hope it doesn't rain, or snow!
Harry Merrick.
John Reddy
"Harry Merrick" <merr...@agencies.dnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3E1478B0...@agencies.dnet.co.uk...
Sunday parades? While I have no great time for the IRA, I believe in peoples
right to honour their heroes or perceived heroes. Why did you Anglicise a
legitimate Irish name. His name is Aengus O Snodaigh and it is his right to
be known by that name. God you are weird.
Goli Otok
"Whitewolf" <r...@eirefirst.com> wrote in message
news:qa991voji91pm38aq...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:03:05 -0000, "John Reddy" <JohnR...@eircom.knet>
> wrote:
>
> I agree...
>
>
> YOu're right, he has the right to define his name and others should
respect
> it...
>
Birds of a feather.
Kosovo Polje
Goli Otok
> On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:36:48 +0000, Harry Merrick
> <merr...@agencies.dnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Whitewolf wrote:
> >
> >> Annual Sean South commemoration
> >
>
mean
> bringing a pair of gloves...
>
I thought matching gloves, berets and shades were de-riguer at those sort of
events regardless of the weather.
Kosovo Polje
Telmey®
Harrrry... oh Harrrry,
This is not as aimple as it sounds Already there have been some problems
as below...
>Whitewolf wrote:
>
>> Annual Sean South commemoration
>>
>> THE annual Sean South Commemoration takes place in Limerick this coming
>> Sunday, January 5.
>
>How bizarre!
>
>>
>>
>> The main speaker at the commemoration will be Aengus Ó Snodaigh, who was
>> elected as a TD for the Dublin South Central constituency in last year's
>> General Election.
>
>Angus Snoddy you mean? Knew him well!
you knew Snotty too?
>>
>> The parade for the ceremony will assemble at Bedford Row at 2.45pm on Sunday
>> January 5 and, led by a colour party and the Youghal Republican Flute Band,
The band is not very good at the best of times and yet again let them
down , Talks yesterday were ongoing with an unemployed Band from the
north, the colour of the uniform was Grand but the Badges were a little
too tall and the Organisers have asked the band if they will cut the top
section off, leaving just a Harp showing, before the the commemoration
service.
>> will proceed to the Republican Plot at Mount St Lawrence Cemetery.
This band; the Republican Unemployed Club (RUC for short)
Was a greatful for the chance to prove they are the best cross comunity
band that Ireland has ever known. They are so well known that they know
every republican on a first name basis. Something which might go in their
favor during the All Ireland Band championships.
>Well I just hope it doesn't rain, or snow!
It will not matter to the Republican Unemployed Club band as they have
performed in all types of weather and specialise in Funerals and
commemoration service.
PS
Who is Sean south anyway?
>
>
Telmey.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not their fault, and it's no reflection on their intelligence,
it's simply because of the bullshite they are being fed"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bmul
South,
His funeral passed up Mulgrave street in about 1953 i think,,i lived on
[still do] Mulgrave street,and as a child i remember the 10 deep people
all the way up the street,i remember the black horses, with the plumes of
white, it was a big deal,,,,,
All the funerals in limerick pass my door,,2 or 3 a day,,, but that
childhood memory of Sean South funeral passing the door i remember
mul
Whitewolf <r...@eirefirst.com> wrote in message
news:boq81v07elhcb80pe...@4ax.com...
Harry Merrick
> "Harry Merrick" <merr...@agencies.dnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3E1478B0...@agencies.dnet.co.uk...
> > Whitewolf wrote:
> >
> > > Annual Sean South commemoration
> > >
> > > THE annual Sean South Commemoration takes place in Limerick this coming
> > > Sunday, January 5.
> >
> > How bizarre!
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The main speaker at the commemoration will be Aengus Ó Snodaigh, who was
> > > elected as a TD for the Dublin South Central constituency in last year's
> > > General Election.
> >
> > Angus Snoddy you mean? Knew him well!
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The parade for the ceremony will assemble at Bedford Row at 2.45pm on
> Sunday
> > > January 5 and, led by a colour party and the Youghal Republican Flute
> Band,
> > > will proceed to the Republican Plot at Mount St Lawrence Cemetery.
> >
> > Well I just hope it doesn't rain, or snow!
> >
> > Harry Merrick.
> What is your problem?
I have no problem whatsoever! It appears that you might though!
> Is the parade any more bizarre than the remembrance
> Sunday parades?
Did I say it was?
> While I have no great time for the IRA, I believe in peoples
> right to honour their heroes or perceived heroes.
Not when they are terrorists!
> Why did you Anglicise a
> legitimate Irish name.
It is not, is why. Like Gerry Adams, Snoddy is of English ancestry.
> His name is Aengus O Snodaigh and it is his right to
> be known by that name.
Well, like it or not, I find this Gaelicisation of perfectly good English names
elitist and supremacist. He is trying to make out how wonderful he is as a
Republican!
> God you are weird.
(SIGH!) - Oh I know, it makes life far more interesting!
Seriously, where IS your sense of humour?? Of irony? - Can you *still* not see a
wind up unless it actually hits you in the face?
ROTFL!
Harry Merrick.
John Reddy
that it becomes a wind up. Now Sir, I know for sure that you are weird.
Ploink.
Harry Merrick
This is an amusing item I came across, to lighten the situation some, all
Irishmen prepare to be insulted, Whitewolf in particular:
> SIGNS YOU'VE BEEN IN CORK TOO LONG
>
> 1. You say "I'm Grand, like" all the time.
>
> 2. You think Murphy's is 'savage'.
>
> 3. You think of Murphy's as if it is the sixth food group.
>
> 4. You disagreed with 2. - Murphy's is the FIRST food group
> and
> call anyone a 'Langer' if they claim to the contrary.
>
> 5.You say "Are you Grand?" all the time.
>
> 6.You say "Tis grand, like?" all the time.
>
> 7.You say "That'd be grand, like" all the time.
>
> 8.You take 4 hours to get home on a Saturday night and think nothing
> of it.
>
> 9. You don't eat anything cold, uncooked or not resembling
> meat, bread or potatoes.
>
> 10.You say "Your man" followed by 'boiy' all the time.
>
> 11.You say "Your woman" followed by 'boiy' all the time.
>
> 12.You say "Tis grand that your man asked if I'm grand, like, boiy"
> all the time.
>
> 13.You find yourself still living with family and having dinners
> cooked for you by someone's mammy - at Number 30.
>
> 14.You talk about 'dinners' and 'mammys'.
>
> SIGNS YOU'VE BEEN IN DUBLIN TOO LONG
>
> 1. You say 'taeun' when you mean the city.
>
> 2. You think it is perfectly normal to pay over EUR4 for a pint.
>
> 3. Anyone not from Dublin is a 'wanker'.
>
> 4. Anyone from north of the Liffey is a 'Northside wanker '.
>
> 5. You have no idea where Ballydehob is.
>
> 6. You see a member of Westlife on Grafton Street and find it hard
> to
> get excited about it.
>
> 7. The countryside makes you nervous.
>
> 8. Somebody speaks to you on the DART and you freak out thinking
> they
> are a stalker.
>
> 9. American tourists no longer annoy you.
>
> 10. You can't remember the last time you got up to 30mph in your car
> in "taeun."
>
>
> SIGNS YOU'VE BEEN IN LIMERICK TOO LONG
>
> 1. You have an uncontrolable urge to steal.
>
> 2. You keep going on about how great Limerick and Garryowen
> are.
>
> 3. To you, organised crime is putting petrol in the getaway car.
>
> 4. You start to cry when you hear 'Beautiful Munsters'.
>
> 5. You think anyone from Limerick has a great sense of humour.
>
> 6. You think everyone's heard of Barry Foley
>
> 7. You think Dubliners are 'soft east coast ashy pets'...until
> they kick your head in at rugby.
>
> 8. You deny that it rains all the time...as you struggle home with
> the shopping in yet another torrential downpour.
>
>
> SIGNS YOU'VE BEEN IN MONAGHAN TOO LONG
>
> 1. You say 'Sir' all the time ("Howsa goan thur Sir").
>
> 2. You say 'shite' all the time.
>
> 3. You say 'aye' all the time.
>
> 4. You end sentences with 'Hiagh' i.e. "I'm no goan' thur, Hiagh,
> it's shite".
>
> 5. You think McArdles Ale is great, ignoring the fact it 'tastes
> of
> shite Hiagh'.
>
> 6. You get an urge to punch everybody you meet.
>
> 7. You punch everybody you meet.
>
> 8. You get drunk before, after and during punching everybody you
> meet.
>
> 9. You are incomprehensible when you speak while trying to punch
> everyone you meet.
>
> 10. People seem to be scared of you when you say where you are
> from.
> 11. You automatically get the urge to kill on hearing the words
> 'Monarachy' or 'England'.
>
>
> SIGNS YOU'VE BEEN IN GALWAY TOO LONG
>
> 1.You say "Howsa' goin" all the time.
>
> 2.You can't remember a weekend when a friend from Dublin or Cork
> wasn't sleeping on your couch.
>
> 3.When you meet someone on a Tuesday afternoon you tell them you
> haven't been out in ages then remember that you were chatting to
> that
> same person last night in the Quays.
>
> 4. You agree with all taxi drivers on all subjects - why bother
> gettin thick.
>
> 5. Unless the taxi driver is from Mayo.
>
> 6. Unless, like half the population living in Galway, you're from
> Mayo.
>
> 7. When you say you live in Galway, people immediately smile and
> tell you about their wild weekend in Salthill when they were 16. You
> nod enthusiastically about the same venue, despite the fact that you
> were never there.
>
> 8. You think that it's perfectly normal to have 6 buskers
> (including an Ethopian bagpipe player), eight street entertainers,
> 19
> Romanian beggers, a krusty holding some bailing twine tied to a
> raggedy dog telling fortunes and 4 separate roadworks all on the one
> street.
>
>
> SIGNS YOU'VE BEEN IN LEITRIM TOO LONG
>
> 1.You're still there.
>
Harry Merrick
"Ploink" back to you!
It does take a smidgion of intelligence to spot a good windup, I had forgotten
that!
In any case, I am not in the slightest anti-Nationalist, far from it! I am,
however, very strongly anti-Republican and the Republican Movement, which is
more evil than any Orange Order could ever be!
Harry Merrick.
John Reddy
businessmen , to decent republicans? Does the fact that a person or people
enjoys the freedom of republicanism make him some sort of murderer? Did
anybody ever tell you Ireland is a republic and by your logic all citizens
of this republic who subscribe to it's ideals,are evil? Man if you want the
monarchy , have it with all its stupidity and problems.I don't know your age
but I imagine you are too young to know anything about the north.
Telmey®
>Im not a supporter of SF, but i have a memory of the funeral of Sean
>South,
>His funeral passed up Mulgrave street in about 1953 i think,,i lived on
>[still do] Mulgrave street,and as a child i remember the 10 deep people
>all the way up the street,i remember the black horses, with the plumes of
>white, it was a big deal,,,,,
>All the funerals in limerick pass my door,,2 or 3 a day,,, but that
>childhood memory of Sean South funeral passing the door i remember
>
>mul
Strangely, Many Funerals are remembered with reverence, Kelly Told me
all about Michael Collins's Funeral, The City of Dublin was in Tears.
and I'm not in anyway a Republican supporter either. I don't think anyone
in the Unionist camp has ever had such pageantry...none?
One of the Few Military Funerals in the North of note was Sgt Willets.
On the Gun Carriage.
Telmey®
>On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:22:50 GMT, tel...@ntlworld.moc (TelmeyŽ) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:36:48 +0000, Harry Merrick
>><merr...@agencies.dnet.co.uk> said :
>>
>>
>>Harrrry... oh Harrrry,
>>This is not as aimple as it sounds Already there have been some problems
>>as below...
>>
>>
>>>Whitewolf wrote:
>>>
>>>> Annual Sean South commemoration
>>>>
>>>> THE annual Sean South Commemoration takes place in Limerick this coming
>>>> Sunday, January 5.
>>>
>
>Snip
>>
>>PS
>>Who is Sean south anyway?
>
>See:
>
>http://www.eirefirst.com/s.html#s001
>
>I know you know who he is, but you did give me an opening to advertise my
>site again and well... I took it! :-)
>
>Ray
your not as dim as you are sharpe at even'ing the score:-)
Beacon
> bmul wrote:
>
> > Im not a supporter of SF, but i have a memory of the funeral of Sean
> > South,
> > His funeral passed up Mulgrave street in about 1953 i think,,i lived
on
> > [still do] Mulgrave street,and as a child i remember the 10 deep
people
> > all the way up the street,i remember the black horses, with the plumes
of
> > white, it was a big deal,,,,,
> > All the funerals in limerick pass my door,,2 or 3 a day,,, but that
> > childhood memory of Sean South funeral passing the door i remember
> >
> > mul
> >
> > Whitewolf <r...@eirefirst.com> wrote in message
> > news:boq81v07elhcb80pe...@4ax.com...
> > Annual Sean South commemoration
> >
> > THE annual Sean South Commemoration takes place in Limerick this coming
> > Sunday, January 5.
>
> This is an amusing item I came across, to lighten the situation some, all
> Irishmen prepare to be insulted, Whitewolf in particular:
>
> > SIGNS YOU'VE BEEN IN CORK TOO LONG
I note you have still failed to respond to my questions Harry. You claimed
to be busy but you seemed to find the time to post this above.
By the way since it is not your original work ( or did someone copy your
work when you had not the time to do it) you might credit some source like:
Beacon
"TelmeyŽ" <tel...@ntlworld.moc> wrote in message
news:3e156e42...@news.cable.ntlworld.com...[snip]
>
> Strangely, Many Funerals are remembered with reverence, Kelly Told me
> all about Michael Collins's Funeral, The City of Dublin was in Tears.
> and I'm not in anyway a Republican supporter either. I don't think anyone
> in the Unionist camp has ever had such pageantry...none?
>
> One of the Few Military Funerals in the North of note was Sgt Willets.
> On the Gun Carriage.
Eh telmey. While Michael collins might nowadays be hailed by Republicans he
was buiried by Free Staters. In fact he was a central figure to the
anti-Republican element of the Irish Free State.
JAT
"Whitewolf" <r...@eirefirst.com> wrote in message
news:boq81v07elhcb80pe...@4ax.com...
> Annual Sean South commemoration
>
>
> THE annual Sean South Commemoration takes place in Limerick this coming
> Sunday, January 5.
>
> elected as a TD for the Dublin South Central constituency in last year's
> General Election.
>
Sunday
> January 5 and, led by a colour party and the Youghal Republican Flute
Band,
> will proceed to the Republican Plot at Mount St Lawrence Cemetery.
>
> Ray
>
Who gives a fuck?
JAT
Telmey®
:
>
>"Telmey®" <tel...@ntlworld.moc> wrote in message
so ?
JAT
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:18:34 -0000, "JAT"
into
> your car. You've checked your map twice. You've written your "sick
note"
> for your boss so you can take the day off... Afterall, I just know
you're
> hoping to rush down to Limerick to be there to show your respect right?
>
> Ray
>
I don't work Sunday's. The petrol sounds like a good idea though. Maybe a
nice sticky mixture of petrol and sugar in a slurry tanker and we could have
a nice bonfire down there.
JAT
John Reddy
"JAT" <al...@tyrrell2000.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:FXrR9.2059$xE1.322300@stones...
Is that a threat?
Telmey®
<al...@tyrrell2000.free-online.co.uk> said :
sounds like a 'treat' :-0
Beacon
"TelmeyŽ" <Tel...@ntlworld.moc> wrote in message
news:3e162fdd...@news.cable.ntlworld.com...> >"TelmeyŽ" <tel...@ntlworld.moc> wrote in message
I believe I already explained "Free Staters" to you in another post
Now you began this post:
>>>Strangely, Many Funerals are remembered with reverence, Kelly Told me
> >> all about Michael Collins's Funeral,
You continued with
> >> and I'm not in anyway a Republican supporter either. I don't think
anyone
> >> in the Unionist camp has ever had such pageantry...none?
My point is that Repubicans did not organise Collins' funeral. Free Staters
did. Though Republicans may be justified in claiming him now I suggest there
were scant few at his funeral since thay would have been on the run. And no
Republicans organised the funeral so it was not "Republican pagentry" as you
seem to claim.
Martin Harran
"Beacon" <openm...@mydeja.com> wrote in message
news:KrLR9.871$V6....@news.indigo.ie...
>
> My point is that Repubicans did not organise Collins' funeral. Free
Staters
> did. Though Republicans may be justified in claiming him now I suggest
there
> were scant few at his funeral since thay would have been on the run. And
no
> Republicans organised the funeral so it was not "Republican pagentry" as
you
> seem to claim.
>
>
Despite the split between the Republicans and Free Staters, Collins
continued to be highly regarded by the Republicans - when his death was
announce, the Republican prisoners in Mountjoy spontaneously came onto the
balcony and said the Rosary on his behalf.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Beacon
"Martin Harran" <nos...@martinharran.com> wrote in message
news:ava460$dj2t5$1...@ID-166912.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Beacon" <openm...@mydeja.com> wrote in message
> news:KrLR9.871$V6....@news.indigo.ie...
>
> >
> > My point is that Repubicans did not organise Collins' funeral. Free
> Staters
> > did. Though Republicans may be justified in claiming him now I suggest
> there
> > were scant few at his funeral since thay would have been on the run. And
> no
> > Republicans organised the funeral so it was not "Republican pagentry" as
> you
> > seem to claim.
> >
> >
>
> Despite the split between the Republicans and Free Staters, Collins
> continued to be highly regarded by the Republicans - when his death was
> announce, the Republican prisoners in Mountjoy spontaneously came onto the
> balcony and said the Rosary on his behalf.
I am a Republican. I might have done the same. So what has this to do with
my point?
te
:
>
>"Martin Harran" <nos...@martinharran.com> wrote in message
>news:ava460$dj2t5$1...@ID-166912.news.dfncis.de...
>>
>> "Beacon" <openm...@mydeja.com> wrote in message
>> news:KrLR9.871$V6....@news.indigo.ie...
>>
>> >
>> > My point is that Repubicans did not organise Collins' funeral. Free
>> Staters
>> > did. Though Republicans may be justified in claiming him now I suggest
>> there
>> > were scant few at his funeral since thay would have been on the run.
Scant few?? He was a hero of the republic, Sinn Fein organised it
>And
>> no
>> > Republicans organised the funeral so it was not "Republican pagentry" as
>> you
>> > seem to claim.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Despite the split between the Republicans and Free Staters, Collins
>> continued to be highly regarded by the Republicans - when his death was
>> announce, the Republican prisoners in Mountjoy spontaneously came onto the
>> balcony and said the Rosary on his behalf.
>
>I am a Republican. I might have done the same. So what has this to do with
>my point?
>
Collins had become the most wanted man in Ireland, with a price of £10,000
on his head
http://michaelcollins.warnerbros.com/cmp/funeral.html
In the film of his name the funeral scenes at the end are authentic
footage of Michael Collins’s funeral. did you watch the film at all?
there was enough posts on here for to to at least take an interest.
"It is tragic that so brave a man could have been vilified in his
lifetime, and afterwards. Today there are still Irishmen who are unhappy
with what Michael Collins did, but perhaps they view his accomplishment in
the wrong fashion. They claim Collins lost the north. It would be better
for them to realize that he gained the south. That is an accomplishment no
other man could have done."
"In six short years, Michael Collins brought Ireland from total dominion
to a position where it could win its freedom and, as his dying father had
predicted so many years before, Collins etched his name in Irish history
as one of the country's true patriots. "
In 1966, while President of the Republic of Ireland, de Valera said: "It's
my considered opinion that in the fullness of time, history will record
the greatness of Collins and it will be recorded at my expense."
"His body lay in state for three days and tens of thousands of the people
filed past to pay their respects. Even more people lined the streets
during his funeral procession. He was buried at Glasnevin"
How many Irishmen
"Collins now organised the election of de Valera as president of Sinn Fein
in a deal with Arthur Griffith."
He was elected to the Sinn Fein executive in 1917. Collins and his friend
Harry Boland effectively running the republican movement in 1918
While the rest were in Prison.
Refusal to acknowledge Collins as a True and worthy patriot is a denial of
Sinn Fein existance, and you call yourself a republican Doh!
Had collins out lived de Valera; even I'm sure there would have been a UI
many many years ago.
Beacon
<te lm...@ntlworld.moc (Telmey®)> wrote in message
news:3e18e669...@news.ntlworld.com...>[snip]
> >
> >I am a Republican. I might have done the same. So what has this to do
with
> >my point?
> >
> Collins had become the most wanted man in Ireland, with a price of £10,000
> on his head
>
> http://michaelcollins.warnerbros.com/cmp/funeral.html
>
But he was one of the most wanted men by the British military before that.
and they never caught him in spite of spending a deal of time walking around
Dublin and even talking to British Troops.
> In the film of his name the funeral scenes at the end are authentic
> footage of Michael Collins's funeral. did you watch the film at all?
No I did not.
> there was enough posts on here for to to at least take an interest.
>
> "It is tragic that so brave a man could have been vilified in his
> lifetime, and afterwards. Today there are still Irishmen who are unhappy
> with what Michael Collins did, but perhaps they view his accomplishment in
> the wrong fashion. They claim Collins lost the north. It would be better
> for them to realize that he gained the south. That is an accomplishment no
> other man could have done."
> "In six short years, Michael Collins brought Ireland from total dominion
> to a position where it could win its freedom and, as his dying father had
> predicted so many years before, Collins etched his name in Irish history
> as one of the country's true patriots. "
Where are these quotes from?
>
> In 1966, while President of the Republic of Ireland, de Valera said: "It's
> my considered opinion that in the fullness of time, history will record
> the greatness of Collins and it will be recorded at my expense."
Yes. I know that quote.
>
> "His body lay in state for three days and tens of thousands of the people
> filed past to pay their respects. Even more people lined the streets
> during his funeral procession. He was buried at Glasnevin"
>
> How many Irishmen
>
> "Collins now organised the election of de Valera as president of Sinn Fein
> in a deal with Arthur Griffith."
>
> He was elected to the Sinn Fein executive in 1917. Collins and his friend
> Harry Boland effectively running the republican movement in 1918
> Whle the rest were in Prison.
Not alone that he was Taniste (effectivly he was taoiseach since Dev was
over in the US), he was a minister, director of intelligence and a HQ
staffer of the IRB a TD etc. and held down all these jobs while on the run
> Refusal to acknowledge Collins as a True and worthy patriot is a denial of
> Sinn Fein existance, and you call yourself a republican Doh!
Where did I deny Collins anything? all i stated was that Free Staters and
Not Republicans organised his funeral.
> Had collins out lived de Valera; even I'm sure there would have been a UI
> many many years ago.
Possibly. But he didn't. Try alt.history.whatif
Telmey®
:
>
><te lm...@ntlworld.moc (Telmey®)> wrote in message
>news:3e18e669...@news.ntlworld.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:44:30 -0000, "Beacon" <openm...@mydeja.com> said
>> :
>>[snip]
>> >
>> >I am a Republican. I might have done the same. So what has this to do
>with
>> >my point?
>> >
>> Collins had become the most wanted man in Ireland, with a price of Ł10,000
>> on his head
>
>>
>> http://michaelcollins.warnerbros.com/cmp/funeral.html
>>
>
>But he was one of the most wanted men by the British military before that.
>and they never caught him in spite of spending a deal of time walking around
>Dublin and even talking to British Troops.
Not to mention the times he spent in England talking to the Government.
>
>> In the film of his name the funeral scenes at the end are authentic
>> footage of Michael Collins's funeral. did you watch the film at all?
>
>No I did not.
Actual footage of the Funeral. 10 of thousands .
Even the Nuns wept in tears at the death of him (Fact)
Schools shut down, Even Orphanages had a day of mourning.
>> there was enough posts on here for to to at least take an interest.
>>
>> "It is tragic that so brave a man could have been vilified in his
>> lifetime, and afterwards. Today there are still Irishmen who are unhappy
>> with what Michael Collins did, but perhaps they view his accomplishment in
>> the wrong fashion. They claim Collins lost the north. It would be better
>> for them to realize that he gained the south. That is an accomplishment no
>> other man could have done."
>> "In six short years, Michael Collins brought Ireland from total dominion
>> to a position where it could win its freedom and, as his dying father had
>> predicted so many years before, Collins etched his name in Irish history
>> as one of the country's true patriots. "
>
>Where are these quotes from?
Somewhere
>>
>> In 1966, while President of the Republic of Ireland, de Valera said: "It's
>> my considered opinion that in the fullness of time, history will record
>> the greatness of Collins and it will be recorded at my expense."
>
>Yes. I know that quote.
it's well known
>>
>> "His body lay in state for three days and tens of thousands of the people
>> filed past to pay their respects. Even more people lined the streets
>> during his funeral procession. He was buried at Glasnevin"
>>
>> How many Irishmen
>>
>> "Collins now organised the election of de Valera as president of Sinn Fein
>> in a deal with Arthur Griffith."
>>
>> He was elected to the Sinn Fein executive in 1917. Collins and his friend
>> Harry Boland effectively running the republican movement in 1918
>> Whle the rest were in Prison.
>
>Not alone that he was Taniste (effectivly he was taoiseach since Dev was
>over in the US), he was a minister, director of intelligence and a HQ
>staffer of the IRB a TD etc. and held down all these jobs while on the run
So he was a republican of the first order!
>> Refusal to acknowledge Collins as a True and worthy patriot is a denial of
>> Sinn Fein existance, and you call yourself a republican Doh!
>
>Where did I deny Collins anything? all i stated was that Free Staters and
>Not Republicans organised his funeral.
Weak !
>> Had collins out lived de Valera; even I'm sure there would have been a UI
>> many many years ago.
>
>Possibly. But he didn't.
Possibly not!
>Try alt.history.whatif
No! if you want to take it there than you go there, I am allowed to
make my own comments where ever I like, I chose to make that one here.
I thought you were putting me in your kill file,?
Hurry, oh please hurry !
Martin Harran
There seemed to be an undertone in your post that the Republicans had no
regard for Collins - if that is not what you intended, then OK.
Martin
Beacon
"TelmeyŽ" <Tel...@ntlworld.moc> wrote in message
> So he was a republican of the first order!
Not in the Civil war. when he led the IRB during the War of independence he
was a REpublican. But during the Civil War he Supported the Free State side
and was not on the Republican side. I already explained how both eides would
view him as a hero but Collins can in no way be regarded as a Republican in
the Civil War no more than Kitchener could be Regarded as being a German
Supporter in WWI.
>
> >> Refusal to acknowledge Collins as a True and worthy patriot is a denial
of
> >> Sinn Fein existance, and you call yourself a republican Doh!
> >
> >Where did I deny Collins anything? all i stated was that Free Staters and
> >Not Republicans organised his funeral.
>
> Weak !
What do you mean. I never said I did not admire Colling or Griffith for that
matter. But you can not call them Republicans in Relation to the Civil War.
>
> >> Had collins out lived de Valera; even I'm sure there would have been a
UI
> >> many many years ago.
> >
> >Possibly. But he didn't.
>
> Possibly not!
>
> >Try alt.history.whatif
>
> No! if you want to take it there than you go there, I am allowed to
> make my own comments where ever I like, I chose to make that one here.
But your comments ae on what if's. I am not debating what if's but the
historical fact that collins Funeral was organised and run NOT by
Republicans but by Staters. I explained to you before what both these terms
mean.
[snip]
Beacon
"Martin Harran" <martin...@esatclear.ie> wrote in message
news:5tiS9.1173$V6....@news.indigo.ie...
>
[snip]
> >
>
> There seemed to be an undertone in your post that the Republicans had no
> regard for Collins - if that is not what you intended, then OK.
>
The Republicans at the time were fighting against Collins. He was their
enemy. I do not however believe if I was put in their shoes that I could not
admire Collins. I am aware that some Republicans did not admire him and
would view Cahal Bruagh more in the light that many today view Collins.
Telmey®
:
>
>"Martin Harran" <martin...@esatclear.ie> wrote in message
>news:5tiS9.1173$V6....@news.indigo.ie...
>>
>[snip]
>
>> >
>>
>> There seemed to be an undertone in your post that the Republicans had no
>> regard for Collins - if that is not what you intended, then OK.
>>
>
>The Republicans at the time were fighting against Collins. He was their
>enemy. I do not however believe if I was put in their shoes that I could not
>admire Collins.
Quote...
But your comments ae on what if's. I am not debating what if's but the
historical fact
Snip
Unquote
>I am aware that some Republicans did not admire him and
>would view Cahal Bruagh more in the light that many today view Collins.
The reason Republicans Fail to Admire Michael Collins is simple ....
because 'they' shot him....... DEAD!
In the name of Ireland they should be ashamed of their action.
Certainly they are a dirty stain in my books. but then I don't
wear green shades ,
you know, you only see half a TV picture when you're wearing
green shades and it's also true in real life!
michael adams
"TelmeyŽ" <Tel...@ntlworld.moc> wrote in message
...
No little man, true Republicans are broad minded and always
forgiveing of anyone, more especially an Irishman, falling foul
of the irresponsibility, incompetence, and evil machinations
of the British Establishment. As have many, down the years.
It's the Unionists, those who despite your protestations
to the contrary, you have chosen to look on as your true Masters,
who have never, ever, in their whole history, considered anyone's
interests but their own. I can only hope that if God forbid,
the day ever came, this loyalty of yours will be amply rewarded
by the likes of Mr Adair and his friends.
But there again, would they even want to waste their time on
such an evident buffoon such as you ?
michael adams
michael adams
"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:200301071009...@nym.alias.net...
> "michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
> news:3e1a...@212.67.96.135...
> [...]
>
> : No little man, true Republicans are broad minded and always
> : forgiveing of anyone, more especially an Irishman, falling foul
> : of the irresponsibility, incompetence, and evil machinations
> : of the British Establishment. As have many, down the years.
>
>
> ------
> Falcon:
> qui facit per alium facit per se (L.)
>
They are ultimately forgiving. That is the difference.
All human beings are given to emotion and do things in the heat of
the moment - or in the times in which they live - which they may come
subsequently to regret. Don't know about raptors such as yourself
though obviously.
Except apparently for the Ulster Unionists who never admit to ever
having made a mistake ever - either in public or even in private I'd
guess - not that I'm in any position to know of course.
HMG privately admits to making mistakes, in private at least, time after
time, after time. At least if the relevant papers are anything to go by.
In addition to the occasional public admission.
michael adams
Beacon
"TelmeyŽ" <Tel...@ntlworld.moc> wrote in message
> On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:59:17 -0000, "Beacon" <openm...@mydeja.com> said
> :
>
> >
> >"Martin Harran" <martin...@esatclear.ie> wrote in message
> >news:5tiS9.1173$V6....@news.indigo.ie...
> >>
> >[snip]
> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> There seemed to be an undertone in your post that the Republicans had
no
> >> regard for Collins - if that is not what you intended, then OK.
> >>
> >
> >The Republicans at the time were fighting against Collins. He was their
> >enemy. I do not however believe if I was put in their shoes that I could
not
> >admire Collins.
>
> Quote...
> But your comments ae on what if's. I am not debating what if's but the
> historical fact
> Snip
> Unquote
You are mixing up two different points. The "what if" you refer to which i
made above was "what if Collind did not die in the Civil War?" It is an
interesting question but not for this thread on State funerals and burial of
Republican "heros".
The "if i was alive at the time" is a statement of opinion. I was explaining
that I admire Collins today. fo course history is not the past. So ii stated
that if I lived in the past I would no doubt admire him then. that is not a
"what if" in the same sense that "alt.history.whatif" is.
>
>
> >I am aware that some Republicans did not admire him and
> >would view Cahal Bruagh more in the light that many today view Collins.
>
> The reason Republicans Fail to Admire Michael Collins is simple ....
> because 'they' shot him....... DEAD!
There may be many reasons. They again are not central to the subject of
debate as to whether they organised his funeral. Whether they organised his
death has been a subject of historical debate.
> In the name of Ireland they should be ashamed of their action.
Assuming the majic bullet did kill Collins there is no shame to be
attributed to the man who fired it. Why should there be?
> Certainly they are a dirty stain in my books. but then I don't
> wear green shades ,
> you know, you only see half a TV picture when you're wearing
> green shades and it's also true in real life!
Sorry as I mentioned I did not see the movie. I have read several historical
papers and spoken to people on the matter. I also know people for whom Beal
na blath is a big personal interest. One perfers the "spy with the Mauser in
the Armour Car" version. he also told me he went to the brithplace of
Collins some years ago and abused the locals because no plaque monument
shrine etc. was erected. It now has one. But then again Kitchener is getting
one also.
michael adams
"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
> : "Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
> : news:200301071009...@nym.alias.net...
> : > "michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
> : > news:3e1a...@212.67.96.135...
> : > [...]
> : >
> : > : No little man, true Republicans are broad minded and always
> : > : forgiveing of anyone, more especially an Irishman, falling foul
> : > : of the irresponsibility, incompetence, and evil machinations
> : > : of the British Establishment. As have many, down the years.
> : >
> : > Why did they execute so many then?
>
>
> A bullet in the back of the head is ultimately forgiving? That's for sure.
>
...
It's more forgiving than a bullet in the face that prevents an open
coffin funeral - that's for sure.
Apparently, like so many other things in life, the films of Martin
Scorcese seem to have largely passed you by.
...
> : All human beings are given to emotion and do things in the heat of
> : the moment - or in the times in which they live - which they may come
> : subsequently to regret. Don't know about raptors such as yourself
> : though obviously.
>
> I'm trying to imagine a group of men kidnapping and torturing an alleged
> informer, (or law-abiding citizen, depending on your perspective) then
> executing him or her in a country lane, doing so 'in the heat of the
> moment'. I just can't get my head around it - sorry. I wonder what it's
> like; knowing that when the heroic 'freedom fighters' have finished
> pummelling your face and breaking your bones, you're going to die? I
wonder
> if it would have helped if the victims could have known that their
> suffering was inflicted 'in the heat of the moment' or their killers would
> be 'ultimately forgiving'? I suspect not - and I suspect that if, in the
> final moments before they died in terror, anyone had suggested the things
> you suggest, their retorts would have been unprintable. Most of mine are
> ...
...
My my, we are getting a bit heated aren't we? I must admit pummelling
peoples' faces and breaking bones, are a trifle unsophisticated as
compared with the techniques adopted and refined in the Omagh, Gough
Barracks, and Castlereagh Interrogation Centres. But then again those
chaps had the facilities, the experience of working in places like Cyprus
and Aden, and of course the nice uniforms to hand. And then afterwards
they could even hire out their services and their expertise to sundry
Middle Eastern Potentates for use against recalictrant political
opponents as well. Better dead, than a nervous wreck for the
remaining 40 years of your life - who's to say ? I'm just glad
its not me, that's all.
And please less of the *freedom fighters* - that's awfully "gauche"
don't you think? Why not say what you really think of them , namely
*bloodsoaked sub-human big-trotting terrorist paddy scum*. Either that
or use their proper name of Volunteers. But please don't go beating
around the bush on my account.
I do hope that your wallowing in the use of such language and imagery
isn't sympotamatic of some kind of personality disorder on your part though.
As clearly seems to be the case with poor Murdo. Unpleasant thought it is,
shit happens. And a person of the age you claim to be, shouldn't need to
be reminded of that fact. Or of the fact that whether you personally happen
to like it or not, situations change and life has to go on. And failure to
recognise that fact can lead to all sorts of mental health problems, believe
me. Excepting of course if you're personally carrying a souvenir of some
kind.
>
> : Except apparently for the Ulster Unionists who never admit to ever
> : having made a mistake ever - either in public or even in private I'd
> : guess - not that I'm in any position to know of course.
>
> I have as much sympathy for loyalist terrorists as I have for republicans.
> If they have made any sort of apology, qualified or not, I would regard it
> with the same contempt I feel for that issued by P. [Gerry] O'Neill.
>
...
Who's talking about Loyalist Paramilitaries? I'm talking about the basic
philosophy of Unionism which has remained largely unchanged since 1880.
Hence their inanbilty to make mistakes. As they never do anything different!
...
> : HMG privately admits to making mistakes, in private at least, time after
> : time, after time. At least if the relevant papers are anything to go by.
> : In addition to the occasional public admission.
>
> I suspect many will disagree with you.
>
...
Not if they're being completely objective they won't.
I take it you've decided not to respond to my latest post in the
Adams was in the IRA thread then?
Oh and one last thing. In my original post I was refering specifically
to the philosopy of Republicanism, as in the above I was referring
specifically to the philosophy of Unionism. Although I suspect that
having made that point, you're indeed very little the wiser.
...
michael adams
michael adams
"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
> "michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
> news:3e1a...@212.67.96.135...
> :
> : "Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
> : >
> : > A bullet in the back of the head is ultimately forgiving? That's for
sure.
>
> : It's more forgiving than a bullet in the face that prevents an open
> : coffin funeral - that's for sure.
>
> off by a bullet to the back of the head. That's the reality.
>
...
Oh and you haven't quite obviously. You've seen it. Oh I am impressed !
Download the stuff off the Net did you? Howard's got a picture of a little
child with her head hacked off on his site. Had a look at that one yet ?
...
> : Apparently, like so many other things in life, the films of Martin
> : Scorcese seem to have largely passed you by.
>
> It seems quite a lot of things have passed you by, you supercilious prat.
> Death isn't a movie.
...
Neither has death anything to do with the Republican ideal, and the reason
why Republicans were ultimately forgiving of Michael Collins. Which if you
can remember that far back, was the topic of the original post.
It was you and not I who decided to introduce your all too obvious petty
obsessions with violence and people dying in terror - clearly not realising
that many people die in terror in their hospital beds - into this thread.
Wallowing in all the detail in colourful language of a kind which
wouldn't discredit a Sun leader writer.
...
>
> [...] snipped arrogant armchair political moralising ...
...
including surprise surprise - the perfectly valid analogy with the
treatment meted out to supected Republican sympathisers in Omagh, Gough
Barracks, and Castlereagh Interrogation Centres
...
> it's pretty clear
> that "shit" hasn't happened anywhere near you; you wouldn't be so plainly
> stupid if it had.
Well I can only say that on those grounds, even less can have
happened anywhere near you! Because bad as I am, you are clearly
much more stupid than me!
Can I therefore take it that by resorting to the use of words and
phrases such as "supercilious prat","arrogant","stupid" - you are
somehow indicating that you feel you are losing the argument in some way?
>
> : I take it you've decided not to respond to my latest post in the
> : Adams was in the IRA thread then?
>
> I haven't seen it. Was it a long one?
>
> Was it worth responding to?
...
Well as I'm not a mind reader, from your perpective I'm not fit to
judge am I? Obviously *I* thought it was worth responding to, or I
wouldn't have posted it would I? It was rather stupid question to ask
in other words. Was it not?
Anyway here was the last bit -
> [...]the timing. For the moment therefore, I have to dismiss the theory
> that the shooting started when army fire from the walls was mistaken for
> sniper fire from the Bogside.
I'm sorry I'm not up on the topography of all this, but from this can it
be assumed then that the walls, and the Bogside, were in roughly the same
direction in relation to the Paras' own position?
michael adams
Hockersmith
> Because bad as I am, you are clearly
> much more stupid than me!
I love this line.........a lot.
KateH
Ergoge the Niffirg
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>news:200301071009...@nym.alias.net...
>> "michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
>> news:3e1a...@212.67.96.135...
>> [...]
>>
>> : No little man, true Republicans are broad minded and always
>> : forgiveing of anyone, more especially an Irishman, falling foul
>> : of the irresponsibility, incompetence, and evil machinations
>> : of the British Establishment. As have many, down the years.
>>
>> Why did they execute so many then?
>>
>> ------
>> Falcon:
>> qui facit per alium facit per se (L.)
>>
>
>They are ultimately forgiving. That is the difference.
It's very easy to forgive them after they were dead.
--
Egoreg
Never ask a Donegal man to translate for you
michael adams
"Ergoge the Niffirg" <Firg_...@com.not.btinternet> wrote in message
news:1gbm1v8hu9eijvt6u...@4ax.com...
The original post was in relation to Michael Collins.
Who are the *they* you are referring to here?
Westprog
"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:2003010716481...@nym.alias.net...
> "michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
> news:3e1a...@212.67.96.135...
..
> : I take it you've decided not to respond to my latest post in the
> : Adams was in the IRA thread then?
> I haven't seen it.
Neither have I.
> Was it a long one?
Yes.
> Was it worth responding to?
No.
J/
SOTW: "Wardance" - Killing Joke
michael adams
"Westprog" <West...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e1b4a29$1...@news.boards.ie...
Bored are we?
Oh dear!
Because obviously if you haven't read it you won't know if its worth
responding to will you?
No don't tell me!
None of them are!
Hoot!
You are a one, you really are!
Doesn't seem your advice has done Conor much good though.
Better email him again, looks like he's back on the sauce.
Not that you've exactly had that much luck there yourself of course.
Hoot!
Chiaaaaaooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!
michael adams
michael adams
"Conor Booze O Brien" <nospamconor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hhlm1vc6dq7kk120s...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:54:58 -0000, "michael adams"
> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >Chiaaaaaooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!
>
> Holy God. Those Hydrogen atoms just get everywhere.
>
> Conor
except in your frying pan unfortunately
"Let's put all the nastiness behind us."
Hoot!
the ever- polite but nevertheless incisive
michael adams*
(* scans rather better - just so as to avoid any unwarrented
accusations
of "nastiness" from the creators of the Adams Family Farting
Fuel Factory*)
* vulgarity - the last refuge of the truly desperate
michael adams
"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
> : Anyway here was the last bit -
> :
> : > [...]the timing. For the moment therefore, I have to dismiss the
theory
> : > that the shooting started when army fire from the walls was mistaken
for
> : > sniper fire from the Bogside.
> :
> : I'm sorry I'm not up on the topography of all this, but from this can it
> : be assumed then that the walls, and the Bogside, were in roughly the
same
> : direction in relation to the Paras' own position?
>
> The 'blue on blue' theory was put forward by Tony Geraghty in his book
'The
> Irish War'. He was questioned about it at the Inquiry on 20th May. The
> problem with the theory is not the topography, but the timing. The shots I
> referred to - reported from the R.Anglian positions on the city walls -
did
> *not* coincide with the initial report of shots being fired at the army.
> Those shots had been reported hitting the ground near the army's positions
> at 15.49 *prior* to 1 Para's deployment.
Just so I have this right. Some shots were reported as hitting the ground
at 15.49, as you say before the deployment of 1 Para. So to all intents and
purposes these shots are irrelevent because presumably the Paras cannot have
been returning fire in response to these. Is this essentially correct or
am I missing something ?
whereas you go on to say -
> The shooting in question [from the walls*] happened at 16.15, *after* the
> Paras had deployed into the Bogside at around 16.10
Assuming the paras could only start returning fire *after* they'd been
deployed
then presumably they could only be returning fire to that which was in fact
coming either from the direction of the barricade or from the walls.
So again its surely relevent to ask, are the position from which the
Anglians
were firing from on the Walls,and the barricade near the Rossville Flats in
roughly the same direction in relation to the position of the paras? And
more to the point, if not, then in which direction did the paras first
start firing ? Not discounting the possibility of echoes of course
> [*The R. Anglian callsign [54A] actually reported being fired on by gunmen
> at 16.15 and again five minutes later returning fire on both occasions,
> seeing at least one person fall at the barricade near the Rossville Flats.
> The radio report from 54A was confirmed by both the army's radio log and
> the famous intercept transcript. The Paras were not the only soldiers to
> see and engage gunmen.]
>
> I suggest some further reading before jumping to any more conclusions:
...
As if I would! Perish the thought.
...
> :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/northern_ireland/2000/blood
y_sunday/map/1450.stm
> : http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk/transcripts/Archive/TS210.htm
> :
http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk/reports/kstatments/Archive/C2090.pdf
>
> Enjoy. The last one is 90 pages long.
>
indexed? no don't answer that
Thanks for the links and I may have a quick look [as I'm not even supposed
to be doing this] - I'll certainly have a look for a map from somewhere.
If I don't already have one in fact. Otherwise I'll allow Mr Mansfield
and his cronies to earn their £5000 or whatever it is a day they get, for
doing whatever it is they do. And trust that the good old Guardian will
have their people poring all over the stuff. And Footy as well of course.
No opportunity for righteous indignation will be lost. Have no fear.
And presumably there'll be a book or two in it as well.
michael adams
Aemon
>Death isn't a movie.
>
>that "shit" hasn't happened anywhere near you; you wouldn't be so plainly
>stupid if it had.
Just get all the squaddies currently stationed within the island of
Ireland and get the fuck out!
The "shit" you speak of wouldn't have happened in the first place if
Britain had never saw fit to invade in the first place.
Aemon
Aemon
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>news:2003010716481...@nym.alias.net...
>> "michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
>> news:3e1a...@212.67.96.135...
>> :
>> : "Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>> : news:200301071340...@nym.alias.net...
<cut>
>> It seems quite a lot of things have passed you by, you supercilious prat.
>> Death isn't a movie.
>
>...
>Neither has death anything to do with the Republican ideal, and the reason
>why Republicans were ultimately forgiving of Michael Collins
Now this is an interesting point. A perenial argument amongst
Republicans is 'Who was the better Republican, Dev or Collins?'
My subjective impression from the people that I have spoken to is
Collins was the better man and better Republican.
Aemon
MMcC
wrote:
Yeah, that's right, you tell him.
And while we're at it, get the fuck out of New Zealand you colonising
white northern Europeans.
Give it back to the Maoris........... oh, and don't forget to take all
those fucking sheep with you.
Aemon
wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:22:20 +1300, Aemon <repub...@email.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>It seems quite a lot of things have passed you by, you supercilious prat.
>>>Death isn't a movie.
>>>
>>>[...] snipped arrogant armchair political moralising ... it's pretty clear
>>>that "shit" hasn't happened anywhere near you; you wouldn't be so plainly
>>>stupid if it had.
>>
>>Just get all the squaddies currently stationed within the island of
>>Ireland and get the fuck out!
>>
>>The "shit" you speak of wouldn't have happened in the first place if
>>Britain had never saw fit to invade in the first place.
>>
>>Aemon
>
>Yeah, that's right, you tell him.
>
>And while we're at it, get the fuck out of New Zealand you colonising
>white northern Europeans.
I'm part Maori, so what now then?
>Give it back to the Maoris.
Personally, I'd like to see the Treaty of Waitangi fully ratified but
somehow I don't think it will be.
That fact, in and of itself should serve as a warning to the
Republican movement re: ratification of the GFA.
>.......... oh, and don't forget to take all
>those fucking sheep with you.
The sheep can stay, they're tasty....and good looking.
Aemon
michael adams
"Aemon" <repub...@email.com> wrote in message
news:hekn1vgccb97iq4l8...@4ax.com...
maybe a more interesting question is who was the better *politician*,
given the times they were in. And who maybe *knew* was signing his own
death warrant, just so as to eventually leave the school-teacher in charge.
all men are born equal nik. among the the unuckiest ones, are those faced
with having to make impossible decisions. And then either maybe laying
down their lives and leaving their reputations to the fates, or having
to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives.
michael adams
armchair moralist
michael adams
> On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 07:32:55 GMT, MMcC <inisN...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >And while we're at it, get the fuck out of New Zealand you colonising
> >white northern Europeans.
>
> I'm part Maori, so what now then?
Vikings, Kerry, and now Maoris! You a test-tube job or something ?
...
>
> >Give it back to the Maoris.
>
> Personally, I'd like to see the Treaty of Waitangi fully ratified but
> somehow I don't think it will be.
>
> That fact, in and of itself should serve as a warning to the
> Republican movement re: ratification of the GFA.
>
> >.......... oh, and don't forget to take all
> >those fucking sheep with you.
>
> The sheep can stay, they're tasty....and good looking.
>
...
So what gives you the right to kill and eat poor defenceless
sheep? Humans have been oppressing sheep for thousands upon
thousands of years! Isn't it about time sheep were finally
given a country of their own where they could live in peace
free from being terrorised and killed by the likes of you?
Hypocrite!
michael adams
bro
> > >.......... oh, and don't forget to take all
> > >those fucking sheep with you.
> >
> > The sheep can stay, they're tasty....and good looking.
> >
>
> ...
>
> So what gives you the right to kill and eat poor defenceless
> sheep? Humans have been oppressing sheep for thousands upon
> thousands of years! Isn't it about time sheep were finally
> given a country of their own where they could live in peace
> free from being terrorised and killed by the likes of you?
> Hypocrite!
if i were a nz sheep i'd be more worried about the 'fate worse than death'
nik alluded to in that last little throwaway phrase of his. he just can't
get that raping-and-pillaging-viking blood out of his system, i reckon,
despite a hundred years of evolution in isolation on the south island
tectonic plate.
i'm guessing that having 'don't worry there, love, i'm part-maori' or 'i
really was in the film, y'know' or even 'i'm a true republican and no doubt
about it. be thankful you're not living under the yoke of british
oppression' is no comfort to the little sheepie while she's being molested
by a six and a half foot shillelagh-armed bloke in a horned helmet and a
costume that looks suspiciously like it was pilfered from a scene from lord
of the rings, even if he is criminally good looking. it could be worse, of
course. i imagine that the threat of ending up in donegal with 'them blokes
in the wellies' will be enough to keep lambsie quiet about any questionable
incidents.
bro
michael adams
"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
> : news:2003010800430...@nym.alias.net...
> [...]
>
> : > Those shots had been reported hitting the ground near the army's
positions
> : > at 15.49 *prior* to 1 Para's deployment.
> :
> : Just so I have this right. Some shots were reported as hitting the
ground
> : at 15.49, as you say before the deployment of 1 Para. So to all intents
and
> : purposes these shots are irrelevent because presumably the Paras cannot
have
> : been returning fire in response to these. Is this essentially correct or
> : am I missing something ?
>
> 'irrelevant'. However, the army did not return fire at 15.49.
...
Given that the entire and solitary purpose of this current jamboree
is to discover exactly how the paras came to have opened fire on what
all the evidence suggests were unarmed civilians, for present purposes
shots fired at the army which weren't returned are indeed totally
irrelevent. Yes.
Unless you're thereby seeking to suggest of course, that all the units in
the vicinity at 15.49, even if not actualy deployed and presumably including
the paras, thereby became "hyped up" as a consequence.
Although the
> shots came from the direction of the Rossville Flats, they didn't identify
> the firing position.
>
> : whereas you go on to say -
> :
> : > The shooting in question [from the walls*] happened at 16.15, *after*
the
> : > Paras had deployed into the Bogside at around 16.10
> :
> : Assuming the paras could only start returning fire *after* they'd been
> : deployed then presumably they could only be returning fire to that which
was in fact
> : coming either from the direction of the barricade or from the walls.
>
> They say they came under fire from the Rossville Flats and Glenfada Park
as
> soon as they deployed.
>
> : So again its surely relevent to ask, are the position from which the
> : Anglians were firing from on the Walls,and the barricade near the
Rossville Flats in
> : roughly the same direction in relation to the position of the paras? And
> : more to the point, if not, then in which direction did the paras first
> : start firing ? Not discounting the possibility of echoes of course
>
> Echoes tend to happen after rounds have been fired, not *before* they have
> been fired.
...
I can see nothing in what I wrote which would suggest I thought otherwise.
Can you? Because while I'm clearly not an expert on these matters as others
presumably are, one might have thought that when one's attention is
otherwise
distracted, one might be initially confused as to the direction of fire as
the
result of an echo. But there again possibly I'm wrong.
...
As to the topography, you have some information to go on. I've
> now said this three times, but topography is not the problem, timing is.
> Which part of the preceding sentence don't you understand? Now I suggest
> you read the evidence, instead of speculating.
>
> [..]
...
On the one hand you accuse me of jumping to conclusions. While at the
same time you wish to decide on my behalf which pieces of evidence I
should and shouldn't consider relevant. So you're allowed to decide which
pieces of evidence are relevant and I'm not. Is that what you're saying?
Which part of the preceding argument don't you understand?
>
> : > I suggest some further reading before jumping to any more conclusions:
> :
> : As if I would! Perish the thought.
>
> [..]
>
> No comment.
...
Oh but you did!
...
>
> : Thanks for the links and I may have a quick look [as I'm not even
supposed
> : to be doing this] - I'll certainly have a look for a map from somewhere.
> : If I don't already have one in fact. Otherwise I'll allow Mr Mansfield
> : and his cronies to earn their £5000 or whatever it is a day they get,
for
> : doing whatever it is they do. And trust that the good old Guardian will
> : have their people poring all over the stuff. And Footy as well of
course.
> : No opportunity for righteous indignation will be lost. Have no fear.
> : And presumably there'll be a book or two in it as well.
>
> In other words, I'll just speculate on theories already aired in the
> inquiry just to keep the flames burning but take as little *real* interest
> as possible ? That seems to be the reaction of most people here Michael,
so
> you're not alone. I should read the Inquiry reports contained in AP/RN as
> well. They may tend to give the kind of selective accounts of the
> proceedings you would prefer to read. Shorter, easier, more 'punchy'. You
> can construct far more convincing trolls when you follow a line drawn by
> professional propagandists.
>
...
For somebody so ready to accuse others of jumping to conclusions you
set a very poor example I must say. But there again for somebody it seems
who can only function satisfactorily by categorising everybody they come
across in this ng as being either an IRA terrorist sympathiser, or a Troll
that should hardly come as real surprise. What a truly rewarding life you
must lead! I don't follow lines drawn by professional propogandists
thanks all the same, because basically they just keep repeating the same
old stuff - again...and again..and again...and again...and again....
that's Stylios in the back of the car, on the way back from the airport, in
the Pauline Calf Wedding video if you remember...just like you in fact, but
let
us say, not quite so obvious. While anyone who read An Phoblacht not
expecting
to see things seen from a strictly Republican perspective could only really
be described as being er ...stupid? In fact exactly just how far up the old
stupeedo meter you want to go with this one? 9 10 or a Spine Tapping 11
even!
And thanks awfully for yet again carefully avoiding the original question.
Oh sorry it's not relevant so why bother answering it? I forgot. And if you
think you're trolling me into ploughing my way through all that lot, then
you really have got another think coming. budgie.
michael adams
michael adams
"bro" <b...@swamp.com> wrote in message
news:XcWS9.33152$p_6.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
mentioned possums in a previous post
...
just a thought
you know your possums and them not running way. Is it because
of the swamps and no pumas or bobcats or whatever being able to
get near them? I spose they'd be the only predators for those
sorts of animals and so they've just got no fear of anything.
michael adams
michael adams
> On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 22:56:13 -0000, "michael adams"
> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Conor Booze O Brien" <nospamconor...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
> >news:hhlm1vc6dq7kk120s...@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:54:58 -0000, "michael adams"
> >> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >Chiaaaaaooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!
> >>
> >> Holy God. Those Hydrogen atoms just get everywhere.
> >>
> >> Conor
> >
> > except in your frying pan unfortunately
> >
> > "Let's put all the nastiness behind us."
> >
> > Hoot!
> >
> > the ever- polite but nevertheless incisive
> >
> > michael adams*
> >
> >
> >
> > (* scans rather better - just so as to avoid any unwarrented
> >accusations
> > of "nastiness" from the creators of the Adams Family Farting
> >Fuel Factory*)
>
>
> We'd get the poetic market; the American market and of course the
> Fanny Adams market. But anyway don't worry. We won't waste too much
> time on it.
>
...
don't know any poetic markets myself
fictional ones yes - but only in books
the poetry market is notoriously uneconomic
print runs of 250 hb not uncommon so I believe
unless you're a heaney, a betjeman, or a hughes
making fun of peoples names -
it really just can't get much more sophisticated than this!
especially coming from one so loth to reveal his own!
the marks of desperation all around
except right here of course
for yet again its
michael adams
bro
>
> "bro" <b...@swamp.com> wrote in message
> news:XcWS9.33152$p_6.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
>
> mentioned possums in a previous post
not in a romantic way
> just a thought
>
> you know your possums and them not running way. Is it because
> of the swamps and no pumas or bobcats or whatever being able to
> get near them? I spose they'd be the only predators for those
> sorts of animals and so they've just got no fear of anything.
no idea. standing still seems to be a defence mechanism, like wot rabbits
do. the main predator here (in michigan) was once the wolverine, i believe,
and these have been hunted to extinction for fur. maybe they couldn't spot
stuff unless it was moving, or maybe possums taste like shite and they stand
still long enough for a wolverine to recognise it and go 'blech, possum!'.
madra dubh would probably know what they taste like. they'll eat any aul
crap in the carolinas... squirrels and stuff, even grits... :-/
bro
michael adams
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:00:55 -0000, "michael adams"
...
aha a history expert !
John Dillon reputedly declared of de Valera, 'when my people went into
Irish politics, his were still selling budgerigars in Barcelona.'
having avoided it on principle - as with the sindy and question time -
i can say with authority that brendan gleeson in 'the treaty' gave by
far the more convincing performance
your further drolleries, such as they are, are snipped
michael adams
Duke of URL
Tastes just about the same as raccoon.
And don't know tree-rats - they make a good stew.
michael adams
"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>
> : > I would hardly call shots fired at army positions during a riot
> : > 'irrelevant'. However, the army did not return fire at 15.49.
> : Given that the entire and solitary purpose of this current jamboree
> : is to discover exactly how the paras came to have opened fire on what
> : all the evidence suggests were unarmed civilians,
>
...
If you'll note I actually used the word "civilians". Given your
question, I can only assume you're not acquainted with the actual
meaning of the word. Can I therefore ask that you look it up. Then
you'll see that what I wrote was correct and that they were indeed
"civilians".
>
> : for present purposes shots fired at the army which weren't returned
> : are indeed totally irrelevent. Yes.
>
> For present purposes [eh?] shots fired from the Bogside at the army are
> irrelevant? If you're serious, you're stupid. If you're not, you're a
prat.
> Which is it?
...
If you're seriouly suggesting that shots fired from the Bogside are
relevent to an Inquiry concerning events which began afterwards following
the deployment of the paras, then would you please explain why? In what
way are these two distinct events connected ?
Oh and one little tip - when offering a choice - and where have we seen
a lot of that recently - its customary to offer real alternatives, unlike
those offered here. I hear that "deranged" is quite a popular option
at the moment.
...
>
> : Unless you're thereby seeking to suggest of course, that all the units
in
> : the vicinity at 15.49, even if not actualy deployed and presumably
including
> : the paras, thereby became "hyped up" as a consequence.
>
> No, I'm not. At least, no more than the rioters were. Are you?
>
...
No I was suggesting that as one possible explanation, as to why the
earlier purported shots from the Bogside could be seen as in any
way relevant to the subsequent events. Which are the actual subject
of the Inquiry.
> [...]
> snipped irrelevant chatter. If you can't stop your supercilious rambling
> you will be snipped... and portions thereof ignored.
> [...]
>
> : And thanks awfully for yet again carefully avoiding the original
question.
> : Oh sorry it's not relevant so why bother answering it? I forgot. And if
you
> : think you're trolling me into ploughing my way through all that lot,
then
> : you really have got another think coming. budgie.
>
> I never doubted that for a moment. Now, what was the question? About
> topography? I provided a link and you suggested you'd look at a map. Oh
> sorry it's not relevant? Well, the events leading up to the shootings ARE
> relevant. Better minds than yours or mine think so. What more do you want?
>
...
I certainly think so as well as it happens. In a wider sense at
least. So just how far back would you want to go ? Henry II ?
1789 ? 1916 ? 1922 ? 1968 ?
...
> On a wider issue; do you think you're the only man since Top Gun / John
> Reddy to successfully irritate absolutely every subscriber to SCI? I think
> you may be. I ask only out of interest.
>
...
Surely you mean "to have successfully irritated" absolutely every
subscriber to SCI? Because presumably, the really irritable ones will
have already killfiled me already? Yes? Looks like you've slipped up
again there, wouldn't you say? Yes I do in fact realise how irritating
it can be for some people, when they're continually defeated in
argument. But each to his own strengths, wouldn't you say? How about
I just stick to the logic, and we leave all the humour to you ?
michael adams
michael adams
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:14:07 -0000, "michael adams"
> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
> >> Not bad Meekill, as Alan Rickman would say.
>
>
> to repeat the History/Historiography lecture again.
>
> >John Dillon reputedly declared of de Valera, 'when my people went into
> >Irish politics, his were still selling budgerigars in Barcelona.'
>
> "Gaelic" scorn went on to become quite successful in the Irish market.
>
...
did they know about budgerigars then? nice humourous sounding word
...
> The Logan "Politics" are even siller than some of your stuff, Mycull.
>
...
one should hope so too!
...
> >having avoided it on principle - as with the sindy and question time -
> >i can say with authority that brendan gleeson in 'the treaty' gave by
> >far the more convincing performance
>
> Gleeson is certainly a great actor, very versatile and has much more
> natural presence than Liam. All the rest, as you know, lies in
> production values.
...
Gleeson seemed to have a Collins like physicality and solidity about him -
the wrestling and all that sort of thing - I don't know if that got in
the Leeson version. He played Bimbo in the BBC film of the Snapper and
seemed a natural but was replaced for the bigger role in The Van. Both he
and Ken Stott played Martin Cahill with him coming of best there as well.
You dont get too many IMHO's on SCI do you ? - especially from me.
...
>
> >your further drolleries, such as they are, are snipped
>
> Jaysus Michael, don't snip. Even bad publicity is good.
>
...
no.
any more "supercilliousness" and its snipped. budgie style!
so just remenber, no more supercilliousness!
aand no more armchair moralising!
> If you've got a Fanny in the Family, flaunt it.
>
...
Bridgids\Bridies, Maureens, Annes, Roisins, Sarahs, Ellens etc etc
but no Frances's or Francesca's I'm afraid
dinner time
michael
Madra Dubh
Yeah, well at least Cole Cannon has never graced our tables.
Neither has stewed sea weed.
But for a real dish, knock Wee Dave in the head, skin him out, gut and
quarter him, soak him in salt water overnight, dredge him through corn meal,
salt and pepper, then fry until golden brown.
Umm Ummm!
-Conway
Ergoge the Niffirg
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>"Ergoge the Niffirg" <Firg_...@com.not.btinternet> wrote in message
>news:1gbm1v8hu9eijvt6u...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:04:54 -0000, "michael adams"
>> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>> >news:200301071009...@nym.alias.net...
>> >> "michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
>> >> news:3e1a...@212.67.96.135...
>> >> [...]
>> >>
>> >> : No little man, true Republicans are broad minded and always
>> >> : forgiveing of anyone, more especially an Irishman, falling foul
>> >> : of the irresponsibility, incompetence, and evil machinations
>> >> : of the British Establishment. As have many, down the years.
>> >>
>> >> Why did they execute so many then?
>> >>
>> >> ------
>> >> Falcon:
>> >> qui facit per alium facit per se (L.)
>> >>
>> >
>> >They are ultimately forgiving. That is the difference.
>>
>> It's very easy to forgive them after they were dead.
>>
>...
>
>The original post was in relation to Michael Collins.
>Who are the *they* you are referring to here?
>
But this has gone beyond one person. Falcon asked you why they
executed so many, you replied and I followed on.
bro
"Madra Dubh" <cca...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:%b1T9.101791$hK4.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
...
> > still long enough for a wolverine to recognise it and go 'blech,
possum!'.
> >
> > madra dubh would probably know what they taste like. they'll eat any aul
> > crap in the carolinas... squirrels and stuff, even grits... :-/
>
> Yeah, well at least Cole Cannon has never graced our tables.
> Neither has stewed sea weed.
>
> But for a real dish, knock Wee Dave in the head, skin him out, gut and
> quarter him, soak him in salt water overnight, dredge him through corn
meal,
> salt and pepper, then fry until golden brown.
> Umm Ummm!
they'd be funny if weren't for the fact that you could swap 'wee dave' for
'any small rodent' and have a genuine carolina recipe.
bro
Aemon
<Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>"michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
>news:3e1b...@212.67.96.135...
>: "Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>: news:2003010716481...@nym.alias.net...
>: > I haven't seen it. Was it a long one?
>: >
>: > Was it worth responding to?
>
>[..]
>
>: Anyway here was the last bit -
>:
>: > [...]the timing. For the moment therefore, I have to dismiss the theory
>: > that the shooting started when army fire from the walls was mistaken for
>: > sniper fire from the Bogside.
>:
>: I'm sorry I'm not up on the topography of all this, but from this can it
>: be assumed then that the walls, and the Bogside, were in roughly the same
>: direction in relation to the Paras' own position?
>
>The 'blue on blue' theory was put forward by Tony Geraghty in his book 'The
>Irish War'. He was questioned about it at the Inquiry on 20th May. The
>problem with the theory is not the topography, but the timing. The shots I
>referred to - reported from the R.Anglian positions on the city walls - did
>*not* coincide with the initial report of shots being fired at the army.
>Those shots had been reported hitting the ground near the army's positions
>at 15.49 *prior* to 1 Para's deployment. The shooting in question [from the
>walls*] happened at 16.15, *after* the Paras had deployed into the Bogside
>at around 16.10.
>
>[*The R. Anglian callsign [54A] actually reported being fired on by gunmen
>at 16.15 and again five minutes later returning fire on both occasions,
>seeing at least one person fall at the barricade near the Rossville Flats.
What sort of a person was this? A civilian, British Soldier, Militant
Republican?
Aemon
Aemon
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>"Aemon" <repub...@email.com> wrote in message
>news:s4mn1vcki5dfcr6iu...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 07:32:55 GMT, MMcC <inisN...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >And while we're at it, get the fuck out of New Zealand you colonising
>> >white northern Europeans.
>>
>> I'm part Maori, so what now then?
>...
>
>Vikings, Kerry, and now Maoris! You a test-tube job or something ?
No. Thats how it is in New Zealand. We're a people made up of mostly
British, then Maori, then Irish, Polynesians, Orientals, small groups
of others.
>> >Give it back to the Maoris.
>>
>> Personally, I'd like to see the Treaty of Waitangi fully ratified but
>> somehow I don't think it will be.
>>
>> That fact, in and of itself should serve as a warning to the
>> Republican movement re: ratification of the GFA.
>>
>> >.......... oh, and don't forget to take all
>> >those fucking sheep with you.
>>
>> The sheep can stay, they're tasty....and good looking.
>...
>
>So what gives you the right to kill and eat poor defenceless
>sheep?
They taste nice.
> Humans have been oppressing sheep for thousands upon
>thousands of years! Isn't it about time sheep were finally
>given a country of their own where they could live in peace
>free from being terrorised and killed by the likes of you?
>Hypocrite!
Awww...damn...yeah....you're right. I must stop oppressing the
sheep.....but...but...<sigh>
Nik
Aemon
Quite right. A more incisive post I have rarely seen.
Aemon
Aemon
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>"bro" <b...@swamp.com> wrote in message
>news:XcWS9.33152$p_6.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>mentioned possums in a previous post
>
>just a thought
>
>you know your possums and them not running way.
They do run away. At a great rate of knots I might add.
> Is it because
>of the swamps and no pumas or bobcats or whatever being able to
>get near them? I spose they'd be the only predators for those
>sorts of animals and so they've just got no fear of anything.
They've got plenty to fear.
Aemon
George
> Tastes just about the same as raccoon.
> And don't know tree-rats - they make a good stew.
>
>
Owl - a bird on the endangered species list. The judge, a local bird-watcher
and environmentalist, was absolutely furious. "I'm going to throw the book
at you, young man", he declared sternly. "What on Earth possessed you to
kill one of the most beautiful birds on the planet?"
"Well, your honour," the hill-billy replied. "I lost my job a year ago. My
wife is sick. My kids are starving. My savings ran out a month ago and we
hadn't eaten for days. It was a dark night, my baby was crying in pain and
hunger, and I saw the owl up in the tree. Your honour, I just couldn't stop
myself."
The judge sighed. How could he send this poor man to jail. He gave him a
long lecture on the importance of conservation of the species, and told him
he was free to go. As the hill-billy was leaving the courtroom a free man,
the judge asked curiously
"What does a Snowy Owl Taste like?"
"Oh", said the hill-billy thoughtfully. "Sort of half-way between a Bald
Eagle and a Whooping Crane"
michael adams
"Ergoge the Niffirg" <Firg_...@com.not.btinternet> wrote in message
From what I can tell Falcon\Budgie was referring mainly to the
fate of those poor unfortunates who were blackmailed, threatened,
and cajoled into informing on the IRA by the NI Special Branch,
only then to be often betrayed in their turn by the NI Special Branch
back to the IRA. To meet their inevitable fate. Personally the
machinations of the NI Special Branch isn't a particular interest of
mine and all Budgie appeared to be interested in doing was in using
it as a pretext for recounting graphic details of elementary torture
techniques and grisly descriptions of the corpses of informers.
Basically I regard such obsessions as being rather unhealthy myself
and possibly symptomatic of something more serious, but then I suppose
it takes all sorts to make the world.
Of far more interest to me personally are all the interesting techniques
used in the Omagh, Gough Barracks and Castlereagh Interrogation Centres
in order to coax information out of recalcitrant Republican suspects.
Although again for some reason Budgie didn't want to talk about those
either. And so if you've got any original input to make either on these
really intersting topics - the machinations of the NI Special Branch when
running informers, or these various techniques as used in the three
Interrogation Centres at Omagh, Gough Barracks, and Castlereagh,
then frankly I'm all ears.
michael adams
bro
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:22:00 -0000, "michael adams"
> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
> >"bro" <b...@swamp.com> wrote in message
> >news:XcWS9.33152$p_6.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >mentioned possums in a previous post
> >
> >just a thought
> >
> >you know your possums and them not running way.
>
> They do run away. At a great rate of knots I might add.
australasian possums aren't the same creature as the merkan (o)possum,
though they're both marsupials. the ones round here will actually lie with
their mouths open and loll out their toungue while you poke them with a
stick.
> > Is it because
> >of the swamps and no pumas or bobcats or whatever being able to
> >get near them? I spose they'd be the only predators for those
> >sorts of animals and so they've just got no fear of anything.
>
> They've got plenty to fear.
like chevy trucks
bro
michael adams
> >"Conor Booze O Brien" <nospamconor...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
> >news:dguo1votehrbtip49...@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:14:07 -0000, "michael adams"
> >> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Not bad Meekill, as Alan Rickman would say.
> >>
> >> >aha a history expert !
> >>
> >> If you've lost your notes, get them from someone else. I don't intend
> >> to repeat the History/Historiography lecture again.
> >>
> >> >John Dillon reputedly declared of de Valera, 'when my people went into
> >> >Irish politics, his were still selling budgerigars in Barcelona.'
> >>
> >> Cosgrave made a similar reference about Garret. Both objects of this
> >> "Gaelic" scorn went on to become quite successful in the Irish market.
>
>
> clever Mickell, but hardly to the point. Pointless cleverness is
> frowned upon in this group, unless of course it impresses the ladies
> in which case its positively encouraged.
>
...
No. The only reason I included the quote at all was because I thought the
phrase "selling budgerigars in Barcelona" a very funny phrase for anyone
to be using. Those lacking a real sense of humour may well be reduced to
regarding it as pointless cleverness - but that is their loss, not mine.
...
> Willy jokes go down a special treat.
...
For those lacking in any imagination I can well imagine they would.
...
>
> >> The Logan "Politics" are even siller than some of your stuff, Mycull.
>
> >one should hope so too!
>
> Indeed.
>
> >> >having avoided it on principle - as with the sindy and question time -
> >> >i can say with authority that brendan gleeson in 'the treaty' gave by
> >> >far the more convincing performance
> >>
> >> Gleeson is certainly a great actor, very versatile and has much more
> >> natural presence than Liam. All the rest, as you know, lies in
> >> production values.
>
> >Gleeson seemed to have a Collins like physicality and solidity about
him -
> >the wrestling and all that sort of thing - I don't know if that got in
> >the Leeson version. He played Bimbo in the BBC film of the Snapper and
> >seemed a natural but was replaced for the bigger role in The Van. Both he
> >and Ken Stott played Martin Cahill with him coming of best there as well.
> >You dont get too many IMHO's on SCI do you ? - especially from me.
>
> Nah, most of SCI is IMHO's.
>
> I've already said that I think Gleeson is probably the better actor. I
> remember watching as Gabriel Byrne met up with Cairan Hynds after
> Gabe's success in Hollywood. Cairan would have made a great "leading
> man" but never got the breaks. Gabe did, but could never really be a
> "leading man". Luckily, Liam managed both.
>
...
I'm not a buff and admit to having to Google Hynds. Wha...? Byrne
was great in Defence of the Realm if only because of the location
in the old Fleet Street Newspaper Office. And Denholm Elliot. I
used to go through the City of an odd early morning when there
would be paper lorries the length of Bouvrie Street and across the
road down the side of the Express. The Day the Earth Caught Fire
is another great Fleet St film although Christenson couldn't act
to save his life......I'm giving away far too much here.
...
> >> >your further drolleries, such as they are, are snipped
> >>
> >> Jaysus Michael, don't snip. Even bad publicity is good.
> >>
> >no.
> >
> >any more "supercilliousness" and its snipped. budgie style!
> >
> >so just remenber, no more supercilliousness!
> >
> >aand no more armchair moralising!
>
> Aye, never be doing that. Just leave the Army to do what's necessary.
> They know what's best for "everyone".
>
...
He seems to know surprisingly little about any number of
things he might be expected to know.
...
> >> If you've got a Fanny in the Family, flaunt it.
>
> >Bridgids\Bridies, Maureens, Annes, Roisins, Sarahs, Ellens etc etc
> >but no Frances's or Francesca's I'm afraid
>
> Pity. Can't you just pretend? Ya were doin awright earlier.
...
No I wasn't. You were simply resorting to vulgarity at my expense.
...
>
> >dinner time
>
> My gob is now just too full of buttered beef to say anything in
> response to that.
>
...
michael
Séimí mac Liam
news:T42T9.33849$p_6.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
Hey Conway! You gonna let him talk down your barbeque like that?
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Duke of URL
>> Tastes just about the same as raccoon.
>> And don't knock tree-rats - they make a good stew.
LOL!
Sally
Possum also eat snakes, birds, eggs, bugs or various kinds, and
garbage if he can get into your garbage can. They also like pet food
left on the porch for your pet. My son found Mr Possum in our empty
garbage can when it evidently tried to see what was in the can and the
lid turned over dropping him inside. I had the job of heaving him as
far as I could into the woods next door. Those sharp teeth looked
menacing and he was hissing at me. This past summer I was going down
the back stairs to the garden, but what should be coming up the stairs
- you guessed it - a possum! Nice to live in the country, 25 miles
south of the capital of the US. LOL - oh yes, possum meat is filled
with grease.
Tony Cooper
>> > quarter him, soak him in salt water overnight, dredge him through corn
>> meal,
>> > salt and pepper, then fry until golden brown.
>> > Umm Ummm!
>>
>> they'd be funny if weren't for the fact that you could swap 'wee dave' for
>> 'any small rodent' and have a genuine carolina recipe.
But a possum is not a rodent. An opossum is a marsupial. It is like
a hairy little sharp-nosed Brit with what we call a fanny pack (to
make Brits snicker and nudge each other) up front to carry things
about in. The possum has sharp yellowish teeth like a Belfast
hang-about and spits and snarls when cornered just like a Belfast
hang-about. When faced with danger, the possum collapses and pretends
to be dead. When faced with danger, the Belfast hang-about collapses
and is dead. This shows the benefit of not understanding how
explosives and Webleys work.
--
Provider of Jots, Tittles and the occasional "Oy!"
Tony Cooper aka tony_cooper213 at yahoo.com
michael adams
"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
> [..]
>
> : From what I can tell Falcon\Budgie was referring mainly to the
> : fate of those poor unfortunates who were blackmailed, threatened,
> : and cajoled into informing on the IRA by the NI Special Branch,
> : only then to be often betrayed in their turn by the NI Special Branch
>
> . and another revisionist comes out of the closet.
>
>
> ------
> Falcon:
> qui facit per alium facit per se (L.)
>
What you mean the NI Special Branch didn't blackmail, threaten,
and cajole people into informing on the IRA ? What they give them
bags of sweets did they? You'll be telling me next that the
Littlejohn Brothers didn't report direct to an MI6 handler -
named Douglas Smythe a.k.a John Wyman either. That was all
being revised as it happened back in 1972 I take it ?
michael adams
know the most! - more than you! [hoot!-hoot!]
British intelligence's interrogation techniques against the
internees (none of which had been charged with any offence)
included the use of "sensory deprivation and like the CIA,
British intelligence experimented with the drug LSD as a possible
truth inducer. On January 18th 1978, the European Court of Human
Rights in Strasburg condemned the practice as * "inhuman and
degrading "* and found the security services guilty of violating
Article 3 of the Human Rights Convention. Fourteen men were
subsequently paid damages by the British Government. They had been
hooded, spread-eagled against a wall for days, subjected to a
high-pitched noise, deprived of food, drink and sleep, and badly
beaten. Two of the victims, Sean McKenna and Patrick Shivers,
died from their mental and physical torture.
Didn't happen to get a look at Sean and Patrick as well by any
chance did you ? And I assume it was the European Court of Human
Rights in Strasburg who started all this revisionism business back
in 1974 then ?
Annoying enough for you yet is it ?
Mike MacKinnon
michael adams
"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
> :
> : "Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
> : news:200301081758...@nym.alias.net...
>
> : > You mean rioters?
> :
> : If you'll note I actually used the word "civilians". Given your
> : question, I can only assume you're not acquainted with the actual
> : meaning of the word. Can I therefore ask that you look it up. Then
> : you'll see that what I wrote was correct and that they were indeed
> : "civilians".
>
> can only assume you're not acquainted with the actual meaning of the word.
> Can I therefore ask that you look it up. Then you'll see that what I wrote
>
...
I must apologise for my ignorance. I'd always assumed that under
the circumstances none of those present was subsequently tried
and convicted of Rioting, which in my view at least would indeed
be justification for their being subsequently described as rioters.
Given that Riot is indeed a criminal offence. However, given your
insistence on using the term I must assume I am indeed wrong, and
so in the strict interests of accuracy I'm perfectly willing to
rephrase it to "civilians and convicted rioters."
> [..]
>
> : If you're seriouly suggesting that shots fired from the Bogside are
> : relevent to an Inquiry concerning events which began afterwards
following
> : the deployment of the paras, then would you please explain why? In what
> : way are these two distinct events connected ?
>
> If your argument pivots on the Inquiry only considering events which took
> place after 4.10pm, I'm afraid you're in a minority of one.
>
> [...]
...
No indeed, they are *not* only considering events which took place
after 4.10 pm. But the only reason they are considering events which
took place before 4.10 pm, is in order to better form a judgement as to
what happened afterwards. This being the sole purpose of the Inquiry -
i.e if instead GF, a light aircraft had acidentally crashed onto
the Rossville Flats at 4.10 pm, then there would be no need for this
particular Inquiry at all.
...
>
> : No I was suggesting that as one possible explanation, as to why the
> : earlier purported shots from the Bogside could be seen as in any
> : way relevant to the subsequent events. Which are the actual subject
> : of the Inquiry.
>
> The longer this goes on, the more I'm convinced that you're being
> deliberately dim.
>
...
No I'm not actually. But what I have sometimes found myself,
is that if otherwise even marginally intelligent people start to
appear more noticeably "dim" all of a sudden, it can often be
because one is oneself at fault. By for instance too readily
making assumptions, or jumping to conclusions without having
first properly thought things through.
...
> [..]
>
> : > : And thanks awfully for yet again carefully avoiding the original
question.
> : > : Oh sorry it's not relevant so why bother answering it? I forgot. And
if you
> : > : think you're trolling me into ploughing my way through all that lot,
then
> : > : you really have got another think coming. budgie.
> : >
> : > I never doubted that for a moment. Now, what was the question? About
> : > topography? I provided a link and you suggested you'd look at a map.
Oh
> : > sorry it's not relevant? Well, the events leading up to the shootings
ARE
> : > relevant. Better minds than yours or mine think so. What more do you
want?
> :
> : I certainly think so as well as it happens. In a wider sense at
> : least. So just how far back would you want to go ? Henry II ?
> : 1789 ? 1916 ? 1922 ? 1968 ?
>
> 3.50pm seems to be too far for you.
>
...
No it doesn't. Its simply that I can't see any obvious connection
between what happened then and what happened subsequently. Which
it is after all, the object of this current Inquiry to determine.
...
> [..]
>
> : Surely you mean "to have successfully irritated" absolutely every
> : subscriber to SCI? Because presumably, the really irritable ones will
> : have already killfiled me already? Yes? Looks like you've slipped up
> : again there, wouldn't you say? Yes I do in fact realise how irritating
> : it can be for some people, when they're continually defeated in
> : argument. But each to his own strengths, wouldn't you say? How about
> : I just stick to the logic, and we leave all the humour to you ?
>
> You're right.
> In my experience, those who claim victories where none exist, are usually
> the deranged ones.
>
...
You have lots of people claiming victories over you then, do you ?
You seem to have some experience of it anyway.
But anyway well done! I introduce you to new word "deranged" and you
make use of it straight away! Not strictly relevant in this context of
course, but its a start anyway.
so just try and keep up the good work
michael adams
MacLeo
Great one George....
MacLeo
michael adams
> On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:53:27 -0000, "michael adams"
> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
> >> Willy jokes go down a special treat.
> >
>
>
> >I'm not a buff and admit to having to Google Hynds. Wha...?
>
> been in lots of stuff but still he never seems to be able to make the
> breakthrough into the bigtime. I mean, you've never heard of him and I
> can't even spell his name.
>
> I saw him interviewed by Mariella Frostrup and he came over all
> nervous and self-conscious and it was obvious that she was aware of
> this problem, not least since she mentioned it. It just seemed strange
> for an actor.
...
her of the husky voice almost honor blackmans daughter
still diana rigg for me though...
...
> > Byrne was great in Defence of the Realm
>
> Byrne was great in Bracken, the forerunner of Glenroe. he acted the
> rest of them off the screen, just doing the moody broody stuff. He
> seems to have "made it" after that.
>
> > if only because of the location
> >in the old Fleet Street Newspaper Office. And Denholm Elliot. I
> >used to go through the City of an odd early morning when there
> >would be paper lorries the length of Bouvrie Street and across the
> >road down the side of the Express.
>
> Aye, and LBC in Gough Square, where many of the little darlings
> started out. What with Murdoch, PC's and all the changes in the
> Financial sector, the City certainly lost a lot of its charm.
>
...
what with Covent garden to the west and fleet st it was a real
working city. i'm a great nostagia buff for both london and dublin
old photos film the lot - very much given to the old historical
imagination bit and all that.
...
> > The Day the Earth Caught Fire
> >is another great Fleet St film although Christenson couldn't act
> >to save his life......I'm giving away far too much here.
>
> So, were you a milkman?
>
...
not on a bicycle i wasn't no.
...
> >> >> >your further drolleries, such as they are, are snipped
> >> >>
> >> >> Jaysus Michael, don't snip. Even bad publicity is good.
> >> >>
> >> >no.
> >> >
> >> >any more "supercilliousness" and its snipped. budgie style!
> >> >
> >> >so just remenber, no more supercilliousness!
> >> >
> >> >aand no more armchair moralising!
> >>
> >> Aye, never be doing that. Just leave the Army to do what's necessary.
> >> They know what's best for "everyone".
>
> >He seems to know surprisingly little about any number of
> >things he might be expected to know.
>
> True.
>
...
i've started me snippin - i told ya no more supercilliousness
not that it was of course
michael
michael adams
> On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:33:40 -0000, "michael adams"
> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Conor Booze O Brien" <nospamconor...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
> >news:audq1vk6mb2ntkfi1...@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:53:27 -0000, "michael adams"
> >> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Willy jokes go down a special treat.
> >> >
> >> >For those lacking in any imagination I can well imagine they would.
> >>
> >> Be careful. You're now attacking the SCI staple diet.
> >>
> >> >I'm not a buff and admit to having to Google Hynds. Wha...?
> >>
> >> Hinds would be better. I'm interested because he's from Belfast. He's
> >> been in lots of stuff but still he never seems to be able to make the
> >> breakthrough into the bigtime. I mean, you've never heard of him and I
> >> can't even spell his name.
> >>
> >> I saw him interviewed by Mariella Frostrup and he came over all
> >> nervous and self-conscious and it was obvious that she was aware of
> >> this problem, not least since she mentioned it. It just seemed strange
> >> for an actor.
> >...
> >her of the husky voice almost honor blackmans daughter
> >still diana rigg for me though...
>
>
> >> > Byrne was great in Defence of the Realm
> >>
> >> Byrne was great in Bracken, the forerunner of Glenroe. he acted the
> >> rest of them off the screen, just doing the moody broody stuff. He
> >> seems to have "made it" after that.
> >>
> >> > if only because of the location
> >> >in the old Fleet Street Newspaper Office. And Denholm Elliot. I
> >> >used to go through the City of an odd early morning when there
> >> >would be paper lorries the length of Bouvrie Street and across the
> >> >road down the side of the Express.
> >>
> >> Aye, and LBC in Gough Square, where many of the little darlings
> >> started out. What with Murdoch, PC's and all the changes in the
> >> Financial sector, the City certainly lost a lot of its charm.
> >
> >working city. i'm a great nostagia buff for both london and dublin
> >old photos film the lot - very much given to the old historical
> >imagination bit and all that.
>
> the Van der Valk bloke (Barry Foster), set in the old Covent Garden
> market and showing it in all its old glory.
...
funny you should say that. I missed taping it when it was last on TV
and I'm always looking out for it but I'm not sure if theyre ever going
to show it again on TV because of weirdness that more or less completely
escaped me at the time - this was only mentioned on a website I was
searching it up on - to confirm the name of the film in fact. Theres a good
documantary "every day except christmas" about covent garden c 1958 by a
a young lindsey anderson or maybe it was tony richardson I'm not sure.
he also made one about waterloo station with a distinctive drum sequence
in it, which I saw at the time in the academy in oxford street. all now
taped courtesy of channe1 4 - thankfully before the new management
took over. And the 30s\40's bw docs they used to show as well. thank
heaven for vhs timers.
...
>
> Up the Junction is quite good too, as its very specifically about
> these changes to the cityscape, class breakdown and the various
> reactions of the people and so on.
>
...
Writen by Nell Dunne of course. Posh girl trading down and the
start of Batterseafication. I think they made a big thing of her
in the ST at the time. IIRR Susie Kendall Dudley Moores ex played
the lead in the Film with Denis Waterman but Carole White on tv?
Adrianne Posta was in one of them anyway having the abortian.
Poor Cow too with again Carole White, Terry Stamp, John Bindon,
and Ken Cambell - or was that in U the J as well, playing a
characteristic leery type. And real grotty east end locs.
Theres a few east end and sarf ln'n -elephabnt and castle
docs i've got on tape too.
ok here's a snippet from mad frank's diary by the
incomparable mr frazer himself
9 november 1980
This was a bad day for the family. Poor Shirely
Eva's daughter got nicked for murder. The coppers
came round one Sunday and there was a man's head
on a plate in her fridge. (she got off though, it
wasn't her.)
ghosted by James Morton, but not that one, a former
criminal brief with, like mff, a very dark sense of humour
...
> But generally any of these 70's and before films, are interesting from
> that angle alone. Its almost unbearable sometimes to compare how these
> places used to look and how they are today.
...
yup even for 60's and 70's domestic interiors. I hate to confess
to this but even the on the busses films - i couldn't watch a carry
on to save my life - have a sort of period authenticity I simply
find it hard to resist.
...
>
> >i've started me snippin - i told ya no more supercilliousness
> >
> >not that it was of course
>
> Supersilliness is better, or "less of yer Roger Moore's", perhaps.
>
...
ok you've got me. is this rhyming slang for something ?
am I finally unmasked? or is it from fools and horses, a very poor
studio bound substitute IMHO, for the excellently scripted Minder
with its slang neologisms ?
michael
Ergoge the Niffirg
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>"Ergoge the Niffirg" <Firg_...@com.not.btinternet> wrote in message
>news:8f8p1vgda00cvq2ro...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:11:02 -0000, "michael adams"
>> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Ergoge the Niffirg" <Firg_...@com.not.btinternet> wrote in message
>> >news:1gbm1v8hu9eijvt6u...@4ax.com...
>> >> On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:04:54 -0000, "michael adams"
>> >> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>> >> >news:200301071009...@nym.alias.net...
>> >> >> "michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:3e1a...@212.67.96.135...
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >>
>> >> >> : No little man, true Republicans are broad minded and always
>> >> >> : forgiveing of anyone, more especially an Irishman, falling foul
>> >> >> : of the irresponsibility, incompetence, and evil machinations
>> >> >> : of the British Establishment. As have many, down the years.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why did they execute so many then?
>> >> >
>> >> >They are ultimately forgiving. That is the difference.
>> >>
>> >> It's very easy to forgive them after they were dead.
>> >
>> >The original post was in relation to Michael Collins.
>> >Who are the *they* you are referring to here?
>> >
>> But this has gone beyond one person. Falcon asked you why they
>> executed so many, you replied and I followed on.
>
>From what I can tell Falcon\Budgie was referring mainly to the
>fate of those poor unfortunates who were blackmailed, threatened,
>and cajoled into informing on the IRA by the NI Special Branch,
>only then to be often betrayed in their turn by the NI Special Branch
>back to the IRA. To meet their inevitable fate.
So, from your post
"true Republicans are broad minded and always
forgiving of anyone, more especially an Irishman, falling foul
of the irresponsibility, incompetence, and evil machinations
of the British Establishment"
are we to assume the IRA are not true republicans (in your view)
because as you point out, those they are suppose to be "ultimately
forgiving" to are murdered by them?
Or do they only forgive them after they have murdered them, a bit like
a priest giving the last rights?
snipped rest.
Madra Dubh
I thought that one would have really got you going.
Or, barring you, wee dave hisself.
-Conway
(Irishmen are an unpredictable lot)
Madra Dubh
"Séimí mac Liam" <gwy...@aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FDA1...@129.250.170.96...
> "bro" <b...@swamp.com> wrote in
> news:T42T9.33849$p_6.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
> >
> > "Madra Dubh" <cca...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:%b1T9.101791$hK4.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >>
> > ...
> >> > still long enough for a wolverine to recognise it and go 'blech,
> > possum!'.
> >> >
> >> > madra dubh would probably know what they taste like. they'll eat
> >> > any aul crap in the carolinas... squirrels and stuff, even grits...
> >> > :-/
> >>
> >> Yeah, well at least Cole Cannon has never graced our tables.
> >> Neither has stewed sea weed.
> >>
> >> But for a real dish, knock Wee Dave in the head, skin him out, gut
> >> and quarter him, soak him in salt water overnight, dredge him through
> >> corn
> > meal,
> >> salt and pepper, then fry until golden brown.
> >> Umm Ummm!
> >
> > they'd be funny if weren't for the fact that you could swap 'wee dave'
> > for 'any small rodent' and have a genuine carolina recipe.
> >
> > bro
>>
> Hey Conway! You gonna let him talk down your barbeque like that?
>
wee dave.
-Conway
Madra Dubh
"Sally" <esd...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:b8bcd929.03010...@posting.google.com...
Possum meat is indeed filled with grease as is groundhog.
Which is why you slowly bake them critters on a raised drain rack.
Possums can also inflict a nasty wound with those teeth.
-Conway
Iain
"Madra Dubh" wrote:
snip
> Possum meat is indeed filled with grease as is groundhog.
> Which is why you slowly bake them critters on a raised drain rack.
> Possums can also inflict a nasty wound with those teeth.
> -Conway
>
neighbors cat... which on the other hand is too sour... First you take the
Possum... Nail its head to a new cyprus board... the board needs to be
about two inches longer and wider than the Possum... Roast slowly over an
open fire... turning occasionally... when the skin starts to pop open... and
the fatty juices flow... its done... Throw away the Possum... and eat the
board...
Iain...
Iain...
michael adams
> On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:40:13 -0000, "michael adams"
> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
> >> >what with Covent garden to the west and fleet st it was a real
> >> >working city. i'm a great nostagia buff for both london and dublin
> >> >old photos film the lot - very much given to the old historical
> >> >imagination bit and all that.
> >>
> >> Oh I absolutely adore all that stuff. There's that film (Frenzy) with
> >> the Van der Valk bloke (Barry Foster), set in the old Covent Garden
> >> market and showing it in all its old glory.
> >...
> >
> >funny you should say that. I missed taping it when it was last on TV
> >and I'm always looking out for it but I'm not sure if theyre ever going
> >to show it again on TV because of weirdness that more or less completely
> >escaped me at the time - this was only mentioned on a website I was
> >searching it up on - to confirm the name of the film in fact.
>
>
> http://film.society.tripod.com/nzffs/hit-frenzy.htm
>
> > Theres a good documantary "every day except christmas" about covent
garden c 1958 by a
> >a young lindsey anderson or maybe it was tony richardson I'm not sure.
> >he also made one about waterloo station with a distinctive drum sequence
> >in it, which I saw at the time in the academy in oxford street. all now
> >taped courtesy of channe1 4 - thankfully before the new management
> >took over. And the 30s\40's bw docs they used to show as well. thank
> >heaven for vhs timers.
>
> do with Film Archives, and of course he also made that TV drama more
> recently about the Photography Archive. I'm sure he shares our
> interest. But anyway, the Archive in the film seemed to be located
> down that tunnel thing in Southampton Row. What's down there? Do you
> know?
...
Yup I think that used to be a tram tunnel\garage down there I
believe. And then down the end there are the deep tunnels under
Holborn Station. They were used by the Yanks during WW11 and for
secret stuff afterwards. I think they're rented out commercially
now so the archive could be in either place. I think there's one
firm down there needs either absolute silence or stillness for
something so must be away from the tube. IIRR They may be the
deepest in Britain. There reputedly used to be just the one small
door in Holborn leading down into the whole thing. As there often is
with these secret tunnels. Which makes them intriguing. There's
2 books that have details of the Holborn one - Beneath our City
Streets by Peter Laurie Penguin, that has details of all the
Whitehall Tunnels as well, and War Plan Uk by Duncan Campell
the ex NS and Crispin Aubery trial chap which has details of
secret Govt citadels all over in the UK inc the Box Tunnel etc
>
> Blow Up is another good one for old Chelsea.
>
...
And that park's called Maryon Park IIRR in Greenwich, off the main rd
I went there once out of curiosity - the buildings in the background
for the park shots at the top, were all plywood cutouts apparently-
and of course Hemmings was in the Squeeze as well - all the
old red Pride and Clarke shops he drove past (may have been down
Garret Lane Tooting). Funnily enough I saw Blow Up for the first
time in Chelsea. Don't know where the big house they had the party
was though. He was great one for framing and composing his shots
antonioni, made great play with the beams in the studio shooting
past the beam, them ducking under it etc. And Jimmy Smith on the
hi fi of course. That was after he did Red Desert with Monica
Vitti aahhh loads of framing and compostional stuff in that
one as well IIRR.
> >> Up the Junction is quite good too, as its very specifically about
> >> these changes to the cityscape, class breakdown and the various
> >> reactions of the people and so on.
>
> >Writen by Nell Dunne of course. Posh girl trading down and the
> >start of Batterseafication.
>
> Yes. Its much more about her search for "authenticity", ironically at
> a time when the working-class characters are looking to trade up. The
> waterman character puts her right on the realities. Its a very
> intelligent film, much more the sort of thing you expect the French to
> be doing. But its true, the British had all that at one time too, hard
> though it is to believe now.
>
> The 70's was a very strange period in the British Film Industry. They
> went from having one to having none. All that was left was soft-porn
> and Carry-Ons. You can see it too in the careers of some of the big
> British Actors. People like Terence Stamp, Alan Bates, Tom Courtenay,
> David Hemmings and Malcolm McDowell were big names before the collapse
> but relative nobodies after.
>
> > I think they made a big thing of her
> >in the ST at the time. IIRR Susie Kendall Dudley Moores ex played
> >the lead in the Film with Denis Waterman
>
> Yup.
>
> > but Carole White on tv?
>
> Dunno, that was very early. Poor Carole ended-up very badly. Remember
> The Squeeze? That had nordie actor Stephen Boyd in it. He was quite
> big and in Ben Hur too.
>
Yes with Stacey Keach. The location for his house in the film
was\is round the back of Hammersmith. There's a sort of chapel
thing next to his, and its on the main cycle route - for those
in the know - from west london into the centre. It also passes
Michael Winner's house a big Arts and Crafts pile which give him
his due, he really keeps up. His Father used to own Shepherds Bush
Market and maybe Michael still does. Its round the back of Ken High
Sreet next to Holland Park. Yup I looked Boyd up on the web he's
got one big fan who's devoted a site to him - I dunno I thought
he was a bit laboured and as I couldn't remember Ben Hur but
knew he was in it, thats why I looked him up.
> >Adrianne Posta was in one of them anyway having the abortian.
> >Poor Cow too with again Carole White, Terry Stamp, John Bindon,
> >and Ken Cambell - or was that in U the J as well, playing a
> >characteristic leery type.
>
> I remember that. He's a zany bloke today but then he was just weird in
> the bad sense.
>
Later he used to tour with the Ken Cambpell Roadshow which
was always featuring in Time Out but which I never saw.
> > And real grotty east end locs.
> >Theres a few east end and sarf ln'n -elephabnt and castle
> >docs i've got on tape too.
> >
> >ok here's a snippet from mad frank's diary by the
> >incomparable mr frazer himself
> >9 november 1980
> >This was a bad day for the family. Poor Shirely
> >Eva's daughter got nicked for murder. The coppers
> >came round one Sunday and there was a man's head
> >on a plate in her fridge. (she got off though, it
> >wasn't her.)
> >
> >ghosted by James Morton, but not that one, a former
> >criminal brief with, like mff, a very dark sense of humour
>
> >> But generally any of these 70's and before films, are interesting from
> >> that angle alone. Its almost unbearable sometimes to compare how these
> >> places used to look and how they are today.
>
> >yup even for 60's and 70's domestic interiors. I hate to confess
> >to this but even the on the busses films - i couldn't watch a carry
> >on to save my life - have a sort of period authenticity I simply
> >find it hard to resist.
>
> I agree. They're quite amazing to watch, just to see the massive
> cultural changes which have taken place since. They're a wonderful
> resource.
>
> Don't dismiss the Carry Ons so quickly though. Some posters to this
> group rely on them for their willy jokes, puns and double entendres.
> Whilst we tend to laugh at the teller rather than the joke, Americans
> and others who weren't brought up on them, still find them funny.
>
...
actually I was forgetting. the less risque early b\w ones sergeant
teacher etc are really ok. while carry on constable is actually
a bit close to home.
> >> >i've started me snippin - i told ya no more supercilliousness
> >> >
> >> >not that it was of course
> >>
> >> Supersilliness is better, or "less of yer Roger Moore's", perhaps.
>
> >ok you've got me. is this rhyming slang for something ?
> >am I finally unmasked? or is it from fools and horses, a very poor
> >studio bound substitute IMHO, for the excellently scripted Minder
> >with its slang neologisms ?
>
> You say it to people who look doubtful about some project or
> proposition. You know, like the way Roger Moore looked quizzical with
> that raised eyebrow thing. It was very popular in London in the 70's
> amongst the usual types. Ronnie Barker even used it in a episode of
> Porridge.
>
> Any way....... KNOCK, KNOCK
>
Its in Mayo - but o.k. who's there ?
michael
michael adams
> On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:40:13 -0000, "michael adams"
> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
> >> >what with Covent garden to the west and fleet st it was a real
> >> >working city. i'm a great nostagia buff for both london and dublin
> >> >old photos film the lot - very much given to the old historical
> >> >imagination bit and all that.
> >>
> >> Oh I absolutely adore all that stuff. There's that film (Frenzy) with
> >> the Van der Valk bloke (Barry Foster), set in the old Covent Garden
> >> market and showing it in all its old glory.
> >...
> >
> >funny you should say that. I missed taping it when it was last on TV
> >and I'm always looking out for it but I'm not sure if theyre ever going
> >to show it again on TV because of weirdness that more or less completely
> >escaped me at the time - this was only mentioned on a website I was
> >searching it up on - to confirm the name of the film in fact.
>
garden c 1958 by a
> >a young lindsey anderson or maybe it was tony richardson I'm not sure.
> >he also made one about waterloo station with a distinctive drum sequence
> >in it, which I saw at the time in the academy in oxford street. all now
> >taped courtesy of channe1 4 - thankfully before the new management
> >took over. And the 30s\40's bw docs they used to show as well. thank
> >heaven for vhs timers.
>
> do with Film Archives, and of course he also made that TV drama more
> recently about the Photography Archive. I'm sure he shares our
> interest. But anyway, the Archive in the film seemed to be located
> down that tunnel thing in Southampton Row. What's down there? Do you
> know?
...
Yup I think that used to be a tram tunnel\garage down there I
believe. And then down the end there are the deep tunnels under
Holborn Station. They were used by the Yanks during WW11 and for
secret stuff afterwards. I think they're rented out commercially
now so the archive could be in either place. I think there's one
firm down there needs either absolute silence or stillness for
something so they must be away from the tube. IIRR They may be the
deepest in Britain. There reputedly used to be just the one small
door in Holborn leading down into the whole thing. As there often is
with these secret tunnels. Which makes them so intriguing. There's
2 books that have details of the Holborn one - Beneath our City
Streets by Peter Laurie Penguin, that has details of all the
Whitehall Tunnels as well, and War Plan Uk by Duncan Campell
the ex NS and Crispin Aubery trial chap which has details of
secret Govt citadels all over in the UK inc the Box Tunnel etc
>
> Blow Up is another good one for old Chelsea.
>
...
And that park's called Maryon Park IIRR in Greenwich, off the main rd
I went there once out of curiosity - the buildings in the background
for the park shots at the top, were all plywood cutouts apparently-
and of course Hemmings was in the Squeeze as well - all the
old red Pride and Clarke shops he drove past (may have been down
Garret Lane Tooting). Funnily enough I saw Blow Up for the first
time in Chelsea. Don't know where the big house they had the party
was though. He was great one for framing and composing his shots
antonioni, made great play with the beams in the studio shooting
past the beam, them ducking under it etc. And Jimmy Smith on the
hi fi of course. That was after he did Red Desert with Monica
Vitti aahhh loads of framing and compostional stuff in that
one as well IIRR.
> >> Up the Junction is quite good too, as its very specifically about
> >> these changes to the cityscape, class breakdown and the various
> >> reactions of the people and so on.
>
> >Writen by Nell Dunne of course. Posh girl trading down and the
> >start of Batterseafication.
>
> Yes. Its much more about her search for "authenticity", ironically at
> a time when the working-class characters are looking to trade up. The
> waterman character puts her right on the realities. Its a very
> intelligent film, much more the sort of thing you expect the French to
> be doing. But its true, the British had all that at one time too, hard
> though it is to believe now.
>
> The 70's was a very strange period in the British Film Industry. They
> went from having one to having none. All that was left was soft-porn
> and Carry-Ons. You can see it too in the careers of some of the big
> British Actors. People like Terence Stamp, Alan Bates, Tom Courtenay,
> David Hemmings and Malcolm McDowell were big names before the collapse
> but relative nobodies after.
>
> > I think they made a big thing of her
> >in the ST at the time. IIRR Susie Kendall Dudley Moores ex played
> >the lead in the Film with Denis Waterman
>
> Yup.
>
> > but Carole White on tv?
>
> Dunno, that was very early. Poor Carole ended-up very badly. Remember
> The Squeeze? That had nordie actor Stephen Boyd in it. He was quite
> big and in Ben Hur too.
>
Yes with Stacey Keach. The location for his house in the film
was\is round the back of Hammersmith. There's a sort of chapel
thing next to his, and its on the main cycle route - for those
in the know - from west london into the centre. It also passes
Michael Winner's house a big Arts and Crafts pile which give him
his due, he really keeps up. His Father used to own Shepherds Bush
Market and maybe Michael still does. Its round the back of Ken High
Sreet next to Holland Park. Yup I looked Boyd up on the web he's
got one big fan who's devoted a site to him - I dunno I thought
he was a bit laboured and as I couldn't remember Ben Hur but
knew he was in it, thats why I looked him up.
> >Adrianne Posta was in one of them anyway having the abortian.
> >Poor Cow too with again Carole White, Terry Stamp, John Bindon,
> >and Ken Cambell - or was that in U the J as well, playing a
> >characteristic leery type.
>
> I remember that. He's a zany bloke today but then he was just weird in
> the bad sense.
>
Later he used to tour with the Ken Cambpell Roadshow which
was always featuring in Time Out but which I never saw.
> > And real grotty east end locs.
> >Theres a few east end and sarf ln'n -elephabnt and castle
> >docs i've got on tape too.
> >
> >ok here's a snippet from mad frank's diary by the
> >incomparable mr frazer himself
> >9 november 1980
> >This was a bad day for the family. Poor Shirely
> >Eva's daughter got nicked for murder. The coppers
> >came round one Sunday and there was a man's head
> >on a plate in her fridge. (she got off though, it
> >wasn't her.)
> >
> >ghosted by James Morton, but not that one, a former
> >criminal brief with, like mff, a very dark sense of humour
>
> >> But generally any of these 70's and before films, are interesting from
> >> that angle alone. Its almost unbearable sometimes to compare how these
> >> places used to look and how they are today.
>
> >yup even for 60's and 70's domestic interiors. I hate to confess
> >to this but even the on the busses films - i couldn't watch a carry
> >on to save my life - have a sort of period authenticity I simply
> >find it hard to resist.
>
> I agree. They're quite amazing to watch, just to see the massive
> cultural changes which have taken place since. They're a wonderful
> resource.
>
> Don't dismiss the Carry Ons so quickly though. Some posters to this
> group rely on them for their willy jokes, puns and double entendres.
> Whilst we tend to laugh at the teller rather than the joke, Americans
> and others who weren't brought up on them, still find them funny.
>
...
actually I was forgetting. the less risque early b\w ones sergeant
teacher etc are really ok. while carry on constable is actually
a bit close to home.
> >> >i've started me snippin - i told ya no more supercilliousness
> >> >
> >> >not that it was of course
> >>
> >> Supersilliness is better, or "less of yer Roger Moore's", perhaps.
>
> >ok you've got me. is this rhyming slang for something ?
> >am I finally unmasked? or is it from fools and horses, a very poor
> >studio bound substitute IMHO, for the excellently scripted Minder
> >with its slang neologisms ?
>
michael adams
"Ergoge the Niffirg" <Firg_...@com.not.btinternet> wrote in message
well what would the word "ultimately" suggest to you then, George?
if you're still stuck try the Chambers' 20th Century Dictionary
its on page 1461 in the 1972 edition
michael adams
ejaycee
> garbage if he can get into your garbage can. They also like
pet food
> left on the porch for your pet.
They like fruit as well.
They are dreadful if they get in and nest in your roof. They
stink the place out and chew through your wiring. The cabins at
Cradle Mountain in Tassie have notices to make sure you close
your windows
as they will try to get in. My daughter left her window open
about 2 inches and was woken up by a possum screaming because he
had tried to squeeze in and got stuck.
Ejaycee
bro
"MacHamish" <rus...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:cvqr1vsb1ecl4ffpq...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:30:29 GMT, "Madra Dubh" <cca...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >> they'd be funny if weren't for the fact that you could swap 'wee dave'
for
> >> 'any small rodent' and have a genuine carolina recipe.
> >>
> > bro, you amaze me.
> >I thought that one would have really got you going.
> >Or, barring you, wee dave hisself.
> >-Conway
> >(Irishmen are an unpredictable lot)
>
>
i'm more a 'resident alien', in fact, and will be for another 6 years or so,
if i haven't died of big mac disease, fallen in a hole and been eaten alive
by some swamp beast, or just plain left. the missus will be an irish citizen
in 2 years without all the bollocking around your so-called immigration
'service' likes to go through, so that's always a possibility.
> saw him accept a large sack of Big Mac's through the drive-up window at
> McDonalds. I also noted that the car was listing heavily to the driver's
'accept' is probably the right word, as there's no feckin way i'd pay for
such crap. the dog's getting sick of possum so he has to have something to
eat, even if the fat content is slightly higher in the big mac
> side, indicating that his arse has grown to appropriately Merkan
dimensions.
it is, unfortunately, going in that direction. (more to do with having to
drive everywhere than eating more). the saving grace is that whereas i may
have been wearing nearly the largest clothes sizes most shops in ireland
stock, in merka i'm only about half-way up the scale. it's comforting to
know that when the XL t-shirt feels a little less baggy than before that
there's still XXL and XXXL readily available, and that doesn't take into
account that outsize shops seem to do a fairly good trade.
> Wee Dave was riding shotgun on the top of the passenger seat backrest.
His
> beady little eyes were darting around looking out for possible drive-by
he's still looking out the lawn chair police, never mind possible
assasination. city ordinances can be stricter than north korea, tho i
haven't told him we don't actually live near the city. in east lansing you
can get fined for leaving your lawn furniture in the front garden when the
summer's over, or not cutting your grass, or not shovelling the snow from
the pavement to the front of your property, or parking your car on the
street overnight.... i don't know what they do if you paint you house an
unfashionable colour, but i'd be surprised if it doesn't include something
that could be brought up in the european court of human rights as cruel or
unusual punishment, if only they had jurisdiction. stalin might have sent
people to the gulags, but this kind of treatment of the people of moscow
would likely have brought on the second russian revolution and changed the
history of the twentieth century.
all this might give you the impression that east lansing is a quaint and
picturesque little tourist trap, but nothing could be further from the
truth. the most popular lawn ornaments seem to be every car your family has
had since the second world war in various stages of decay, mostly with
'$1500/best offer' spray-painted on the windscreen. on first impressions
you'd be forgiven for thinking you'd woken up in a very run-down nazi
germany.
i'm sure the good ratepayers of east lansing are happy their $3-4000 per
year local taxes are being put to good use, however. otherwise you'd have
all those nazi traffic warden types out of a job and leaving their lawn
chairs sprawled around in plain sight at inappropriate times of the year
> shooters. Oh, lest I forget, the muffler was dragging on the ground
causing
> sparks to fly, and the quarterpanels were rusting through. Next thing you
the lack of any kind of standard for the condition of vehicles makes this a
real possibility, and probably accounts for the fact that nobody ever throws
a car out when it's done. mufflers are an inconvenience anyway when you live
quite a way from a real road. this 'dontgiveashit' attitude doesn't extend
to taillights. the punishment for your bulb blowing without your knowledge
is a shotgun blast to the back of the head, or something equally
thought-provoking.
> know, he'll be driving a pick-'em-up truck with a gun rack in the rear
> window and a big ole CB radio antenna mounted on the rear bumper.
given the pathetically backward condition of the merkan wireless phone
industry, it may be a better bet
> He's one
> of us now.
they'll have to roughly extract my socialist leanings with a dirty spoon
first, which i suppose is possible if i get caught putting crisp bags in a
mailbox or glancing disrespectfully in the general direction of old glory
anyhow, how's it going? are you still voting republican or are you living it
up at the taxpayers expense yet, like the 20 million other merkans who have
to beg for free food from the guvmint?
bro
and then there's the tv adverts, the weather, the hospitals, the civil
administration, the pathetic range of potato crisp flavours...
Madra Dubh
"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kb5q1v8627qn46pc9...@4ax.com...
-Conway
(Well done)
Madra Dubh
> getting it out of the house.
>
And not a one of you squeamish souls ever thought about knocking it in the
head, cleaning, and baking it.
Did you?
-Conway
Madra Dubh
> On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:30:29 GMT, "Madra Dubh" <cca...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
for
> >> 'any small rodent' and have a genuine carolina recipe.
> >>
> > bro, you amaze me.
> >I thought that one would have really got you going.
> >Or, barring you, wee dave hisself.
> >-Conway
> >(Irishmen are an unpredictable lot)
>
>
> McDonalds. I also noted that the car was listing heavily to the driver's
dimensions.
His
> beady little eyes were darting around looking out for possible drive-by
causing
> sparks to fly, and the quarterpanels were rusting through. Next thing you
one
> of us now.
>
What a sad end to a fine young man, Mac.
Soon he'll be more Irish than the Irish.........er, make that "American".
-Conway
bro
i think he said 'it's just plain stoopit, like a merkan'
bro
bro
i would have, but i didn't know where you'd want it sent
bro
Madra Dubh
WARNING!!! TOP POSTER!!!
Ah but bro me lad, think of the money.
Lots and lots of money.
Money you can save up, take home with ye, and rethatch the auld cottage.
To say nothing of standing rounds every night down at Paddy's.
Why you'll be the most famous man in Balley Pizdownyerleg.
And in short order it will be Squire Bro himself to all the townspeople.
-Conway
(How did you like them apples, Mister calm, cool, and collected?)
"bro" <b...@swamp.com> wrote in message
news:IooT9.103353$hK4.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "MacHamish" <rus...@concentric.net> wrote in message
> >
> >
Madra Dubh
"Iain" <Ia...@SunnyFlorida.net> wrote in message
news:zpmT9.17511$db.1...@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...
We used it in reference to Carp.
Carp, an easy fish to catch and a hard fish to eat.
-Conway
(Though some folks will put the carp in a wash tub full of fresh water for
few days, hoping to get rid of the muddy taste)
..
Aemon
Comments like the one Falcon makes above, show him up to be the liar
he is.
When people lie they almost always do it with an ulterior motivation.
Having an ulterior motivation makes people untrustrworthy.
Aemon
Telmey®
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> said :
>
>"Telmey®" <Tel...@ntlworld.moc> wrote in message
>news:3e1a3178...@news.ntlworld.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:59:17 -0000, "Beacon" <openm...@mydeja.com> said
>> :
>>
>> >
>> >"Martin Harran" <martin...@esatclear.ie> wrote in message
>> >news:5tiS9.1173$V6....@news.indigo.ie...
>> >>
>> >[snip]
>> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> There seemed to be an undertone in your post that the Republicans had
>no
>> >> regard for Collins - if that is not what you intended, then OK.
>> >>
>> >
>> >The Republicans at the time were fighting against Collins. He was their
>> >enemy. I do not however believe if I was put in their shoes that I could
>not
>> >admire Collins.
>>
>> Quote...
>> But your comments ae on what if's. I am not debating what if's but the
>> historical fact
>> Snip
>> Unquote
>>
>>
>> >I am aware that some Republicans did not admire him and
>> >would view Cahal Bruagh more in the light that many today view Collins.
>>
>> The reason Republicans Fail to Admire Michael Collins is simple ....
>> because 'they' shot him....... DEAD!
>> In the name of Ireland they should be ashamed of their action.
>> Certainly they are a dirty stain in my books. but then I don't
>> wear green shades ,
>> you know, you only see half a TV picture when you're wearing
>> green shades and it's also true in real life!
>>
>>
>>
>
>...
>
>No little man, true Republicans are broad minded and always
>forgiveing of anyone, more especially an Irishman, falling foul
>of the irresponsibility, incompetence, and evil machinations
>of the British Establishment. As have many, down the years.
>
>
>It's the Unionists, those who despite your protestations
>to the contrary, you have chosen to look on as your true Masters,
>who have never, ever, in their whole history, considered anyone's
>interests but their own. I can only hope that if God forbid,
>the day ever came, this loyalty of yours will be amply rewarded
>by the likes of Mr Adair and his friends.
>
>
>But there again, would they even want to waste their time on
>such an evident buffoon such as you ?
>
>
>michael adams
Ahh, has your plaything killfiled you and you got no one to talk to?
If you have nothing ontopic about the thread then don't bother .
Telmey®
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> said :
>
>"Ergoge the Niffirg" <Firg_...@com.not.btinternet> wrote in message
>news:1gbm1v8hu9eijvt6u...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:04:54 -0000, "michael adams"
>> <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>> >news:200301071009...@nym.alias.net...
>> >> "michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
>> >> news:3e1a...@212.67.96.135...
>> >> [...]
>> >>
>> >> : No little man, true Republicans are broad minded and always
>> >> : forgiveing of anyone, more especially an Irishman, falling foul
>> >> : of the irresponsibility, incompetence, and evil machinations
>> >> : of the British Establishment. As have many, down the years.
>> >>
>> >> Why did they execute so many then?
>> >>
>> >> ------
>> >> Falcon:
>> >> qui facit per alium facit per se (L.)
>> >>
>> >
>> >They are ultimately forgiving. That is the difference.
>>
>> It's very easy to forgive them after they were dead.
>>
>...
>
>The original post was in relation to Michael Collins.
>Who are the *they* you are referring to here?
FFS your the one changing well off the thread topic,
Was MI5 holding Sean South in 1957? Was Brookeborough the forth
Interrogation Centre along with Omagh, Gough and Castlereagh
you could at least try to keep it on topic by asking if there was a shoot
to kill policy in 1957 , or ask if Brookeborough was another LoughGall
Get a life
Telmey®
<mjad...@onetel.net.uk> said :
>
>"Falcon" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
>news:2003010900565...@nym.alias.net...
>> "michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
>> news:3e1c...@212.67.96.135...
>> [..]
>>
>> : From what I can tell Falcon\Budgie was referring mainly to the
>> : fate of those poor unfortunates who were blackmailed, threatened,
>> : and cajoled into informing on the IRA by the NI Special Branch,
>> : only then to be often betrayed in their turn by the NI Special Branch
>> : back to the IRA. To meet their inevitable fate. [...]
>>
>> . and another revisionist comes out of the closet.
>>
>>
>> ------
>> Falcon:
>> qui facit per alium facit per se (L.)
>>
>
>
>
FFS that's well off the thread topic,
Was MI5 holding Sean South in 1957? Was Brookeborough the forth
Interrogation Centre along with Omagh, Gough and Castlereagh
you could at least try to keep it on topic by asking if there was a shoot
to kill policy in 1957 , or ask if Brookeborough was another LoughGall
Get a thread no....Get a life
Telmey®
:
>
>"Telmey®" <Tel...@ntlworld.moc> wrote in message
>news:3e1a3178...@news.ntlworld.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:59:17 -0000, "Beacon" <openm...@mydeja.com> said
>> :
>>
>> >
>> >"Martin Harran" <martin...@esatclear.ie> wrote in message
>> >news:5tiS9.1173$V6....@news.indigo.ie...
>> >>
>> >[snip]
>> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> There seemed to be an undertone in your post that the Republicans had
>no
>> >> regard for Collins - if that is not what you intended, then OK.
>> >>
>> >
>> >The Republicans at the time were fighting against Collins. He was their
>> >enemy. I do not however believe if I was put in their shoes that I could
>not
>> >admire Collins.
>>
>> Quote...
>> But your comments ae on what if's. I am not debating what if's but the
>> historical fact
>> Snip
>> Unquote
>
>You are mixing up two different points. The "what if" you refer to which i
>made above was "what if Collind did not die in the Civil War?" It is an
>interesting question but not for this thread on State funerals and burial of
>Republican "heros".
>
>The "if i was alive at the time" is a statement of opinion. I was explaining
>that I admire Collins today. fo course history is not the past. So ii stated
>that if I lived in the past I would no doubt admire him then. that is not a
>"what if" in the same sense that "alt.history.whatif" is.
>
>>
>>
>> >I am aware that some Republicans did not admire him and
>> >would view Cahal Bruagh more in the light that many today view Collins.
>>
>> The reason Republicans Fail to Admire Michael Collins is simple ....
>> because 'they' shot him....... DEAD!
>
>There may be many reasons. They again are not central to the subject of
>debate as to whether they organised his funeral. Whether they organised his
>death has been a subject of historical debate.
>
>> In the name of Ireland they should be ashamed of their action.
>
>Assuming the majic bullet did kill Collins there is no shame to be
>attributed to the man who fired it. Why should there be?
>
>
>> Certainly they are a dirty stain in my books. but then I don't
>> wear green shades ,
>> you know, you only see half a TV picture when you're wearing
>> green shades and it's also true in real life!
>
>Sorry as I mentioned I did not see the movie. I have read several historical
>papers and spoken to people on the matter. I also know people for whom Beal
>na blath is a big personal interest. One perfers the "spy with the Mauser in
>the Armour Car" version. he also told me he went to the brithplace of
>Collins some years ago and abused the locals because no plaque monument
>shrine etc. was erected. It now has one. But then again Kitchener is getting
>one also.
>
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