Re: Ireland out of WC 2010
patrick_nyr
"WhiteWolf! <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>" <ra...@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:3pu8g5ltpqvl2ap1q...@4ax.com...
> The Republic of Ireland suffered the most cruel of World Cup exits as
> France
> went through with a goal which should have been disallowed for handball.
>
> Thierry Henry clearly handled before playing the ball for William Gallas
> to
> score the equaliser which saw France win the play-off 2-1 on aggregate.
>
> The Irish had led from the 33rd minute after Republic skipper Robbie Keane
> shot
> past Hugo Lloris from 10 yards.
>
> But Giovanni Trapattoni's side went out in controversial circumstances.
>
> The debate will rage on about the goal which took France to the 2010
> finals in
> South Africa and how the officials failed to spot such a blatant handball.
>
> After the anger about Fifa's decision to seed the play-offs, the Irish
> will feel
> robbed and unfairly treated when up against a bigger nation.
>
> Republic players protested strongly when referee Martin Hansson gave the
> goal
> but the Swedish official was not going to change his mind.
>
> It is hard to imagine more heartbreaking end to Ireland's attempt to reach
> the
> finals after going through their group, which included champions Italy,
> unbeaten.
>
> France, in the stadium where they won the 1998 World Cup, started the
> match more
> confidently.
>
> But they suffered a ninth-minute blow when Julien Escude was forced from
> the
> field with a head injury in the ninth minute and was relpaced by his
> Sevilla
> team-mate Sebastien Squillaci.
>
> Squillaci had a chance in the 20th minute from Henry's cross but sent his
> header
> over the crossbar.
>
> For the Republic, Kevin Doyle had a chance from a Liam Lawrence cross but
> failed
> to make good enough contact with a close-range header under pressure from
> William Gallas.
>
> But Ireland were getting into the game and were posing some danger.
>
> In the 33rd minute the goal came and it was created and finished by three
> of
> Ireland's experienced stars aiming to play in the World Cup finals for a
> second
> time.
>
> Kevin Kilbane played a nice ball through to Duff on the left and he chased
> to
> the bye-line to pull it back for Keane.
>
> The Republic's record goalscorer accurately side-footed beyond the dive of
> goalkeeper Hugo Lloris from 10 yards for his 41st international goal in 96
> appearances.
>
> Suddenly, the Irish dream was on and the French team and supporters were
> stunned.
>
> Half-time arrived with Irish confidence soaring, and their keeper Shay
> Given
> having not had a serious save to make.
>
> They started the second half encouragingly as well and a chance fell the
> way of
> Manchester United defender John O'Shea who shot rashly over from a tight
> angle.
>
> A goal for Giovanni Trapattoni's side would have left the French needing
> two to
> make the finals.
>
> The big chance came in the 61st minute when Duff was put through by Liam
> Lawrence's fine pass.
>
> The Fulham winger attempted the place his shot past Lloris but defender
> Bacary
> Sanga got a slight deflection on the ball and the home keeper was able to
> save
> divnig to his right.
>
> Manchester United's Darron Gibson replaced the injured Glenn Whelan in the
> Irish
> midfield and then O'Shea hobbled off and Paul McShane came on.
>
> As the half wore on, France gained the upper hand with Nicolas Anelka
> flicking a
> header wide of the far post.
>
> But then Keane was almost in again only to run out of space after getting
> past
> Lloris and the ball went behind for a goal-kick.
>
> France surged forward late in the game, trying to grab the goal which
> would send
> them to South Africa without the need for extra-time.
>
> That would have been cruel on the Irish who deservedly remained in terms
> at the
> end of the 90 minutes.
>
> French fans were convinced the 1998 winners should have had a penalty in
> the
> first period of extra-time when Anekla went through and fell as keeper
> Given
> came out.
>
> But, instead of pointing to the spot, the Swedish official ruled the
> Chelsea
> forward had not been fouled and gave a goal-kick. It was the sort of
> decision
> which often goes the way of the home side.
>
> If Ireland were shade fortunate then, they were on the wrong end of an
> outrageous verdict minutes later as Gallas scored that controversial goal.
>
> The arguments may rage on, but the Republic of Ireland's World Cup journey
> is at
> an end.
>
> France: Lloris, Sagna, Gallas, Escude, Evra, Lassana Diarra, Alou Diarra,
> Gourcuff, Anelka, Gignac, Henry. Subs: Mandanda, Remy, Sissoko, Benzema,
> Govou,
> Malouda, Squillaci.
>
> Republic of Ireland: Given, O'Shea, St. Ledger, Dunne, Kilbane, Lawrence,
> Whelan, Andrews, Duff, Doyle, Keane. Subs: Joe Murphy, McGeady, McShane,
> Kelly,
> Gibson, Hunt, Best.
>
> Referee: Martin Hansson (Sweden)
> Story from BBC SPORT:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8367418.stm
>
Well should anyone be surprised at the outcome this is what FIFA and UEFA
wanted good for them.
If what Henry said after the match is true then the fix was in.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=700545&sec=worldcup2010&cc=3888
After the match, Henry admitted the ball did strike his hand and claims he
told the referee, who chose to allow the goal to stand.
The Barcelona striker said: "The ball hit my hand, I will be honest. It was
a handball, you can clearly see it. (Sebastien) Squillaci went to jump with
two Irish players, I was behind him and the next thing I know the ball hit
my hand.
"It was a handball, but I'm not the ref. I told (the referee) but he said to
me the same: 'You are not the ref.'"
mothed out
wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:05:52 -0500, "patrick_nyr" <mpprpp2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >"WhiteWolf! <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>" <r...@iol.ie> wrote in message
>
> >Well should anyone be surprised at the outcome this is what FIFA and UEFA
> >wanted good for them.
>
> >If what Henry said after the match is true then the fix was in.
>
>
> >After the match, Henry admitted the ball did strike his hand and claims he
> >told the referee, who chose to allow the goal to stand.
>
> >The Barcelona striker said: "The ball hit my hand, I will be honest. It was
> >a handball, you can clearly see it. (Sebastien) Squillaci went to jump with
> >two Irish players, I was behind him and the next thing I know the ball hit
> >my hand.
>
> >"It was a handball, but I'm not the ref. I told (the referee) but he said to
> >me the same: 'You are not the ref.'"
>
> interview and saying it was accidental in another... And if he really wanted us
> to believe he didn't do it deliberate... Why celebrate the goal? Why not throw
> up hands and honestly say what happened...
>
> He's now forever going to be known as a cheat. Wonder if there is any chance of
> a replay being arranged?
>
> Ray
FAI is requesting that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2009/1119/1224259137020.html
Is there any precedent for a rematch happening for such a reason?
If it happened, i think we'd be entering an era where video-assisted
refereeing would logically now have to be introduced, since in effect
this would be video-based revision. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be
a fair conclusion, the ref obviously missed a blatant handball. I'm
just pointing out that it would probably have to be introduced as a
norm from now on for consistency.
The technology is there, obviously, for an off-pitch 2nd ref in a
video room in ear-piece contact with the ref. People would then have
to decide whether they want video referral, and the pauses and delays
it would involve, to become the norm. Once it becomes possible, video
referral would be requested the whole time.
I suppose, like (i think) in high level tennis, teams could be given a
limited number of video referral challenges to decisions per game.
Caít()
wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:05:52 -0500, "patrick_nyr" <mpprpp2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> >Well should anyone be surprised at the outcome this is what FIFA and UEFA
> >wanted good for them.
>
> >If what Henry said after the match is true then the fix was in.
>
>
> >After the match, Henry admitted the ball did strike his hand and claims he
> >told the referee, who chose to allow the goal to stand.
>
> >The Barcelona striker said: "The ball hit my hand, I will be honest. It was
> >a handball, you can clearly see it. (Sebastien) Squillaci went to jump with
> >two Irish players, I was behind him and the next thing I know the ball hit
> >my hand.
>
> >"It was a handball, but I'm not the ref. I told (the referee) but he said to
> >me the same: 'You are not the ref.'"
>
> interview and saying it was accidental in another... And if he really wanted us
> to believe he didn't do it deliberate... Why celebrate the goal? Why not throw
> up hands and honestly say what happened...
>
> He's now forever going to be known as a cheat. Wonder if there is any chance of
> a replay being arranged?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
What Henry did was wrong, but it was done in the heat of the action,
and hardly premeditated.
He claims he told the ref, and the ref didn't want to hear - we only
have his word for that.
Whether or not the ref saw it, to my mind, this is the best
justification for video replay and judgement, just like in rugby. I
was surprised that it isn't also the norm in soccer.
As to a rematch, it would be great, and fair.
However, I fear it would never be a re-run of the magic we saw last
night!
Caít()
Caít()
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:47:32 -0800 (PST), Caít() <cathy...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >What Henry did was wrong, but it was done in the heat of the action,
> >and hardly premeditated.
> >He claims he told the ref, and the ref didn't want to hear - we only
> >have his word for that.
> >Whether or not the ref saw it, to my mind, this is the best
> >justification for video replay and judgement, just like in rugby. I
> >was surprised that it isn't also the norm in soccer.
>
> but that as they say, is football. Let us not lose sight of that fact
> that Keane "handled" the ball at least 5 times and was gave away frees
> at least 3 times because of it.... it is an instinctive striker
> reaction .....
>
> It is a bit of a stretch to moan about Henry when we are at least as
> guilty of it ourselves and to hear the tipsters talk about the
> sanctity of football and the honour etc and yet, each match, we have
> dives and all kinds of feigned injuries or impacts in order to claim
> an undeserved free kick....
>
> The "sport" lost it moral higher ground a long time ago.......
>
> Had we won in similar circumstances, we would be quite dismissive of
> the contribution the "hand" had made to the goal....
>
> It was a tight match and in the end they got a lucky break and won...
> we have to accept that and move on........
>
>
>
> >As to a rematch, it would be great, and fair.
>
> >However, I fear it would never be a re-run of the magic we saw last
> >night!
>
>
> Eddie
> "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any
> more than going to a garage makes you a mechanic."
Agreed on all points.
As much as I would have liked to see Ireland or France win or lose in
a different manner, I am getting a bit tired of the conspiracy
theories which are developing.
There will be other days, and at least Ireland under St Trap has shown
it can play with breathtaking passion and quality.
Caít()
Unknown
<cath...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Nov 19, 4:48=A0pm, Eddie Wall <ed...@wall.ie> wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:47:32 -0800 (PST), Ca=EDt() <cathy...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >What Henry did was wrong, but it was done in the heat of the action,
>> >and hardly premeditated.
>> >He claims he told the ref, and the ref didn't want to hear - we only
>> >have his word for that.
>> >Whether or not the ref saw it, to my mind, this is the best
>> >justification for video replay and judgement, just like in rugby. I
>> >was surprised that it isn't also the norm in soccer.
>>
>> I have to say I really enjoyed the match, it was an unfortunate end
>> but that as they say, is football. Let us not lose sight of that fact
>> that Keane "handled" the ball at least 5 times and was gave away frees
>> at least 3 times because of it.... =A0it is an instinctive striker
>> reaction ..... =A0
>>
>> It is a bit of a stretch to moan about Henry when we are at least as
>> guilty of it ourselves and to hear the tipsters talk about the
>> sanctity of football and the honour etc and yet, each match, we have
>> dives and all kinds of feigned injuries or impacts in order to claim
>> an undeserved free kick....
>>
>> The "sport" lost it moral higher ground a long time ago.......
>>
>> Had we won in similar circumstances, we would be quite dismissive of
>> the contribution =A0the "hand" had made to the goal.... =A0
>>
>> It was a tight match and in the end they got a lucky break and won...
>> we have to accept that and move on........
>>
>>
>>
>> >As to a rematch, it would be great, and fair.
>>
>> >However, I fear it would never be a re-run of the magic we saw last
>> >night!
>>
>> Absolutely and a re-match is just not an option.........
>>
>> Eddie
>> "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any
>> =A0more than going to a garage makes you a mechanic."
>
>Agreed on all points.
>As much as I would have liked to see Ireland or France win or lose in
>a different manner, I am getting a bit tired of the conspiracy
>theories which are developing.
>There will be other days, and at least Ireland under St Trap has shown
>it can play with breathtaking passion and quality.
>
>Ca=EDt()
Something like this happens in almost every cricket match.
Caught behind off the pad, or out lbw to a ball pitching outside leg
stump or a delivery clearly missing the wicket. We call it "sawn off"
The batsman is dismissed, and on his way back to the hutch, he can
watch the umpires error again on the great big screen. Cameras are
used in cricket, however, the technology sometimes takes a while to
process, and the result is still sometimes inconclusive. Hot spot
seems to be the best. It looks like a negative, and the impact of the
ball on whatever it hits is highlighted using some thermal magic.
At the moment the international cricket council are testing out the
predictive element of the hawkeye system. Where the prediction of the
path of the ball is made by the technology and not the umpire.
max.it (the orange cage)
Doc Aay
news:337cebcb-5af8-4d01...@l2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
As to a rematch, it would be great, and fair.
However, I fear it would never be a re-run of the magic we saw last
night!
Ca�t()
***************
I am not into sports at all, but it is REALLY good to see you all get
excited about something actually Irish, and to have those who used not to
get along so well chatting together.
From what I can tell your football is going the way of American
football...video replays and money speaks. Too bad.
Cheers,
Doc
mothed out
For a game that is often portrayed as being mired in fixed tradition,
in reality cricket is way ahead.
F�achad�ir
<mothe...@live.com> wrote:
>
>FAI is requesting that.
>
>http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2009/1119/1224259137020.html
>
>Is there any precedent for a rematch happening for such a reason?
This is the only one I know of. However, it s not a direct parallel.
In Ireland's case, the ref didn't see a foul. In the Uzbek case, the
ref saw an incident, and made a technically incorrect decision.
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/germany2006/news/newsid=27212.html
FIFA invalidates Uzbekistan-Bahrain result; match to be replayed
(FIFA.com) Tuesday 6 September 2005
FIFA confirmed today that the result of the 2006 FIFA World Cup
Germany qualifying match between Uzbekistan and Bahrain on 3 September
2005 has been declared invalid and must be replayed. In order to
respect the drawn order of the matches, the first leg is to be
replayed in Uzbekistan on 8 October 2005, with the second leg match to
be rescheduled for 12 October 2005 in Bahrain.
The decision was taken by the Bureau of the 2006 FIFA World Cup
Germany Organising Committee following a formal protest from the
Uzbekistan Football Federation concerning a technical error by the
referee of the match....
--
'Donegal: Up Here It's Different'
� F�achad�ir
Cormac
It is only a football game. It is silly for Brian Cowan to get
involved. He has more important work to do.
Cormac.
F�achad�ir
You'd think...
Westprog
>> Something like this happens in almost every cricket match.
>> Caught behind off the pad, or out lbw to a ball pitching outside leg
>> stump or a delivery clearly missing the wicket. We call it "sawn off"
>> The batsman is dismissed, and on his way back to the hutch, he can
>> watch the umpires error again on the great big screen. Cameras are
>> used in cricket, however, the technology sometimes takes a while to
>> process, and the result is still sometimes inconclusive. Hot spot
>> seems to be the best. It looks like a negative, and the impact of the
>> ball on whatever it hits is highlighted using some thermal magic.
>> At the moment the international cricket council are testing out the
>> predictive element of the hawkeye system. Where the prediction of the
>> path of the ball is made by the technology and not the umpire.
> For a game that is often portrayed as being mired in fixed tradition,
> in reality cricket is way ahead.
The microphone is very effective. Even when the camera is inconclusive, the
display of the click when the ball passes the bat is usually convincing.
--
J/
SOTW: "Drive Like Lightning (Crash Like Thunder)" - The Brian Setzer
Orchestra
Westprog
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:29:30 -0800 (PST), Cormac
> <cormac....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> It is only a football game. It is silly for Brian Cowan to get
>> involved. He has more important work to do.
>
> You'd think...
This morning the Irish Ambassador in Paris handed the French government a
final Note stating that unless the French football association agreed to a
replay of the World Cup qualifying match, a state of war would exist between
us. I have to tell you that no such undertaking has been recieved, and that
consequently this country is at war with feckin' France.
Westprog
for the last twenty-five years, the Irish people have believed that the
Maradona handball against England was a bit of a laugh, and that the English
were a bunch of whiners for making a fuss about it. Upon mature reflection,
we have decided that it was an outrage on a day of infamy that will live
forever, and that not only sport itself has had its good name cast into the
murk, but that such things can be puts the very existence of God in doubt.
Ilas
news:he5ubd$ore$1...@news.datemas.de:
> An apology:
>
> for the last twenty-five years, the Irish people have believed that
> the Maradona handball against England was a bit of a laugh, and that
> the English were a bunch of whiners for making a fuss about it. Upon
> mature reflection, we have decided that it was an outrage on a day of
> infamy that will live forever, and that not only sport itself has had
> its good name cast into the murk, but that such things can be puts the
> very existence of God in doubt.
>
>
Daily Mash:
AS a million emerald tears washed down the streets of Dublin last night,
Ireland's poets set to work immortalising their nation's latest betrayal.
WB Yeats immortalised Ireland's 1-0 defeat to Portugal in 'Euro 1916'
In the candlelit attics of Galway, Limerick and Waterford angry poets
threw back a glass of whiskey and poured out line after line of tragic
verse which critics say could set new standards in ghastly, maudlin self-
indulgence.
Wayne Hayes, of the Institute for Studies, said: "When England were the
victims of a blatant handball the nation used it as an excuse to crank up
its aggressive xenophobia while insisting they would definitely have gone
on to win the World Cup that year even though they have not had a team
remotely good enough to do that since 1966 and even then it was
debatable.
"Whereas for the Irish a trauma such as this forms a perfect addition to
their unremitting sense of victimhood. It will be immortalised in
unbearable poems, songs and novels. They will get drunk and cry about it.
St Patrick's Day parades will include a minute's silence for the 'Brave
Fenians of the Handball'. It will be nauseating."
Seamus O'Finnan, professor of poetry and fighting at the University of
Skibbereen, revealed his early efforts:
I write it out in a verse -
Sagna and Gallas
And Gignac and Anelka
Now and in time to be,
Wherever green is worn,
All shamed, shamed utterly,
And isn't that Thierry Henry a right bastard?
Meanwhile Brendan O'Muckerty, Ryanair's poet-in-residence, wrote:
Why? asked little Patrick, his eyes a-glistening,
Why do men cheat and lie, daddy?
Where was Jesus? Was he not listening?
Oh why did he leave us to die, daddy?
It is cruel to come so near, daddy,
Will my heart always hurt so much?
And who will I support next year, daddy?
I really quite fancy the Dutch.
Caít()
I expected to be rounded up shortly. Just as well the Curragh's only
next door to me.
Caít()
Caít()
That was a particularly sublimely ridiculous decision on his behalf.
Best of all, though was his announcement that he would "raise the
matter with President Sarkhozy".
Someone ought to tell Brian that demagogy is only clever when it ermmm
is clever.
Caít()
Westprog
He's trying to single-handedly make the Irish the ones ending up embarassed.
(Though the FIA are doing their best).
Caít()
> Caít() wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 6:29 am, Cormac <cormac.brada...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> It is only a football game. It is silly for Brian Cowan to get
> >> involved. He has more important work to do.
>
> >> Cormac.
>
> > That was a particularly sublimely ridiculous decision on his behalf.
> > Best of all, though was his announcement that he would "raise the
> > matter with President Sarkhozy".
> > Someone ought to tell Brian that demagogy is only clever when it ermmm
> > is clever.
>
> He's trying to single-handedly make the Irish the ones ending up embarassed.
> (Though the FIA are doing their best).
>
> --
To be fair, FIA have no choice but to look outraged and to seek a
rematch.
The Taoiseach, on the other hand, has a country to run.
Caít()
Paul Carr
"Cormac" <cormac....@hotmail.com>
??????:93dafebd-e506-4351...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> It is only a football game. It is silly for Brian Cowan to get
> involved. He has more important work to do.
>
> Cormac.
Brian Cowen storms into the Elysee Palace, shuffling riigidly with Hiberian
Fianna Fail purpose towards the desk of Nicholas Sarkozy where he is seated.
Nicolas Sarkozy, disarmingly raises his arms in greeting, leaning back on
his chair.
"Ah, Big Ignorant Fucker from Offaly. Bienvenue".
Brian Cowen gets straight down to business. "I would like to convey on
behalf of the people of Ireland our extreme disappointment with the
behaviour of Thierry Henry for handling the ball in extra time. You and I
both know that by the rules and etiquette of football, handling the ball
from time to time in the first 90 minutes of the game is fine but in extra
time? Come on!!!"
"Muerde, you ARE a Big Ignorant Fucker from Offaly!!"
Cowen, imbued with that Soldiers of Destiny fighting spirit that had
propelled him from rags to riches and to a stellar career as leader of
Fianna Fail and the country of the Republic of Ireland, wasn't about to let
up: "If you were half the man I am, you would make an unequivocal televised
apology to the people of Ireland on behalf the people of France".
"Muerde, I AM half the man you are.".
Doc Aay
news:he68jg$1cba$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
I am much amused. I could care less about the football, but this incident
has stirred you all to write some of the most creative stuff I have seen
here lately. Bravo!
Doc
Caít()
> "Cormac" <cormac.brada...@hotmail.com>
> ??????:93dafebd-e506-4351-9383-2fa2c4c7e...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
So, muerde is what shite sounds like in your Sino-Donegalese accented
French?
Caít()
Westprog
> So, muerde is what shite sounds like in your Sino-Donegalese accented
> French?
It's cow manure.
Caít()
> Caít() wrote:
> > So, moo-erde is what shite sounds like in your Sino-Donegalese accented
> > French?
>
> It's cow manure.
>
I should have guessed, how remiss of me.
Caít()
Westprog
> To be fair, FIA have no choice but to look outraged and to seek a
> rematch.
> The Taoiseach, on the other hand, has a country to run.
The Russians had a dodgy sending off and they aren't demanding a rerun.
Mind you, while there may be a total over-reaction in some ways, the Irish
fans were good as gold in Paris. It shouldn't be worth commenting on, but
sadly it is. The Algeria-Egypt fixture at least didn't feature one of the
players attacking a team doctor with a broken bottle this time around.
Caít()
> Caít() wrote:
> > To be fair, FIA have no choice but to look outraged and to seek a
> > rematch.
> > The Taoiseach, on the other hand, has a country to run.
>
> The Russians had a dodgy sending off and they aren't demanding a rerun.
>
> Mind you, while there may be a total over-reaction in some ways, the Irish
> fans were good as gold in Paris. It shouldn't be worth commenting on, but
> sadly it is. The Algeria-Egypt fixture at least didn't feature one of the
> players attacking a team doctor with a broken bottle this time around.
>
They are also INCREDIBLY passibnate and supportive supporters. I have
been in Croke Park for rugby internationals and for high stake GAA
finals, but I have never felt the level of sheer electric support as I
did last Saturday. The only thing that bothered me was the booing of
the French every time they touched the ball - but the positive support
for the team had to be seen and heard and felt to be believed.
This team has 12 men on board, and I had no idea.
Caít()
Sophistry Made Simple
"Westprog" <west...@hottmail.com> wrote in message
news:he6k7t$jfv$1...@news.datemas.de...
> Ca�t() wrote:
>> To be fair, FIA have no choice but to look outraged and to seek a
>> rematch.
>> The Taoiseach, on the other hand, has a country to run.
>
>
> The Russians had a dodgy sending off and they aren't demanding a rerun.
>
> Mind you, while there may be a total over-reaction in some ways, the Irish
> fans were good as gold in Paris. It shouldn't be worth commenting on, but
> sadly it is. The Algeria-Egypt fixture at least didn't feature one of the
> players attacking a team doctor with a broken bottle this time around.
Ireland were fortunate that when they qualified for that European thing in
the 80s the only people who could afford to go were relatively civil sorts
who didn't cause any trouble. It's one of the few times when a good example
actually caught on, because up until then the supporters of a team playing
against Ireland in Dublin were just as likely to be at the bad end of
football 'supporters' as they might have been in any English city.
As for the handball thing, if the ref didn't see it then it didn't happen.
mothed out
'Hand of Frog' was plumbing new depths of crassness even for the Sun,
wot wiv it not even rhyming.
mothed out
In the case of cricket, waiting for the video decision on a run out is
quite fun and dramatic. It seems to fit well enough with the rhythm of
the game....AND you get a fair result!
I don't think it would harm footie for teams to have maybe a maximum
of two video challenges to goal decisions. Not that i care about
footie, too many undercurrents of tribal violence or at the very least
violent posturing. The recent stuff that was happening in relation to
the Algeria/Egypt tie was as bad as any. Last time i went to Egypt
someone was telling me he'd just witnessed a footie riot, it's routine
week in week out.
mothed out
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:29:27 -0800 (PST), mothed out
>
>
> >FAI is requesting that.
>
> >http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2009/1119/1224259137020.html
>
> >Is there any precedent for a rematch happening for such a reason?
>
> This is the only one I know of. However, it s not a direct parallel.
> In Ireland's case, the ref didn't see a foul. In the Uzbek case, the
> ref saw an incident, and made a technically incorrect decision.
>
so closely linked to the question of video referral. In THIS case it
seems impossible to escape the implication that there would have to be
routine video referral from now onwards, since a replay would in
effect set a solid precedent for a team to win a replay on that basis.
Numerous other demands would be forthcoming, and the move to video
would be almost irresistable. But FIFA probably doesn't want to be
bundled into that in this way, even if this is another straw that will
*eventually* break the camel's back and herald the change to a video
system.
I suppose the only thing that might alter that is if France states it
wants a re-match also (because they could authorise a re-match without
setting the precedent of giving way on the basis of an appeal solely
by a single aggrieved party).
. Anyway, i've just watched a clip of Roy Keane slagging off the FAI
and everyone else in Ireland for making such a fuss, and pointing out
that Ireland had an equally blatant bad decision in their favour
earlier in the campaign which they never complained about. Suppose he
has a point.
> http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/germany2006/news/newsid=27212.html
> FIFA invalidates Uzbekistan-Bahrain result; match to be replayed
> (FIFA.com) Tuesday 6 September 2005
> FIFA confirmed today that the result of the 2006 FIFA World Cup
> Germany qualifying match between Uzbekistan and Bahrain on 3 September
> 2005 has been declared invalid and must be replayed. In order to
> respect the drawn order of the matches, the first leg is to be
> replayed in Uzbekistan on 8 October 2005, with the second leg match to
> be rescheduled for 12 October 2005 in Bahrain.
> The decision was taken by the Bureau of the 2006 FIFA World Cup
> Germany Organising Committee following a formal protest from the
> Uzbekistan Football Federation concerning a technical error by the
> referee of the match....
> --
> 'Donegal: Up Here It's Different'
> © Féachadóir
Paul Carr
Continued:
Brian Cowen was not satisfied and slightly irritated by Nicholas Sarkozy's
failure to observe what he deemed protocol.
Mr. Cowen continued indignantly: "Yes, I may be the leader of a small
European country but protocol suggests that you should stand to address me,
sir"...
Nicholas blushes and stands up abruptly and apologetically behind his desk,
lowering his head slightly and spreading his arms, palms forward,
Christ-like, as if to say sorry.
"Non, non, non, Monsieur Cowen, you are number 1 !!!. I meant no offense.
Let us now discuss Hiberno-French relations over dinner. I invite you to a
one-and-three-quarter-some in my favourite restaurant with my lovely wife.
You're number 1. I'm a half and Carla: a quarter."
F�achad�ir
wrote:
>F�achad�ir wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:29:30 -0800 (PST), Cormac
>> <cormac....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is only a football game. It is silly for Brian Cowan to get
>>> involved. He has more important work to do.
>>
>> You'd think...
>
>This morning the Irish Ambassador in Paris handed the French government a
>final Note stating that unless the French football association agreed to a
>replay of the World Cup qualifying match, a state of war would exist between
>us. I have to tell you that no such undertaking has been recieved, and that
>consequently this country is at war with feckin' France.
Britain has promised the use of their ports as a launching pad. In
return, we will give them back Calais and Aquitaine after our
inevitable victory.
Caít()
The Irish only *think* they want a rematch. It would be bound to be a
disappointment after last Wednesday, and right now that have the moral
high ground to revel in.
Caít()
Caít()
wrote:
>
> Ray
> (grumble, grumble)
Ermmm.. 'tis the Irish team I'm talking about...
Caít()
Caít()
>
> Continued:
>
> Brian Cowen was not satisfied and slightly irritated by Nicholas Sarkozy's
> failure to observe what he deemed protocol.
>
> Mr. Cowen continued indignantly: "Yes, I may be the leader of a small
> European country but protocol suggests that you should stand to address me,
> sir"...
>
> Nicholas blushes and stands up abruptly and apologetically behind his desk,
> lowering his head slightly and spreading his arms, palms forward,
> Christ-like, as if to say sorry.
>
> "Non, non, non, Monsieur Cowen, you are number 1 !!!. I meant no offense.
> Let us now discuss Hiberno-French relations over dinner. I invite you to a
> one-and-three-quarter-some in my favourite restaurant with my lovely wife.
> You're number 1. I'm a half and Carla: a quarter."
Woooohhh! Kinky!!
Caít()
Unknown
wrote:
>mothed out wrote:
>>> Something like this happens in almost every cricket match.
>>> Caught behind off the pad, or out lbw to a ball pitching outside leg
>>> stump or a delivery clearly missing the wicket. We call it "sawn off"
>>> The batsman is dismissed, and on his way back to the hutch, he can
>>> watch the umpires error again on the great big screen. Cameras are
>>> used in cricket, however, the technology sometimes takes a while to
>>> process, and the result is still sometimes inconclusive. Hot spot
>>> seems to be the best. It looks like a negative, and the impact of the
>>> ball on whatever it hits is highlighted using some thermal magic.
>>> At the moment the international cricket council are testing out the
>>> predictive element of the hawkeye system. Where the prediction of the
>>> path of the ball is made by the technology and not the umpire.
>
>> For a game that is often portrayed as being mired in fixed tradition,
>> in reality cricket is way ahead.
>
>
>The microphone is very effective. Even when the camera is inconclusive, the
>display of the click when the ball passes the bat is usually convincing.
>
>--
>
>J/
My cry as a cricket umpire is that a decision has to pass out of the
hands of the officials into the hands of the techies and then back
into the hands of the officials again. Too much room for abuse.
It used to be that an umpire would ask "who's batting first"? It would
be assumed that the skippers had made the toss and decided on the
innings. The 2011 code of laws will include to Law 12 that an umpire
must be present at the toss.
This is probably due to a crazy notion that the icc ref and
broadcasters were fixing the toss of the coin for the choice of
innings. Captains in the big games never look at the coin, the camera
doesn't close up, the umpires are not required to be there. The icc
stooge tells the presenter what he likes is the result of the toss and
the presenter tells the world. No arguements.
max.it (the orange cage)
Ray O'Hara
<max.it> wrote in message news:4b071a12...@news.btinternet.com...
all this shows what a pack of cheating poor sports you euros are.
the call vs Ireland was so blatantly bad though that it made the American
sports talk shows as a topic.
very little in sports over there makes much news over here but that did. two
handballs and the guy was a mile offsides as was the man who actually
scored. all ignored.
Paul Carr
>>
>> Continued:
>>
>> Brian Cowen was not satisfied and slightly irritated by Nicholas
>> Sarkozy's failure to observe what he deemed protocol.
>>
>> Mr. Cowen continued indignantly: "Yes, I may be the leader of a small
>> European country but protocol suggests that you should stand to
>> address me, sir"...
>>
>> Nicholas blushes and stands up abruptly and apologetically behind
>> his desk, lowering his head slightly and spreading his arms, palms
>> forward, Christ-like, as if to say sorry.
>>
>> "Non, non, non, Monsieur Cowen, you are number 1 !!!. I meant no
>> offense. Let us now discuss Hiberno-French relations over dinner. I
>> invite you to a one-and-three-quarter-some in my favourite
>> restaurant with my lovely wife. You're number 1. I'm a half and
>> Carla: a quarter."
>
> Woooohhh! Kinky!!
>
Listen to the Angelus. That'll cure you. ;-)
Unknown
You don't know cricket, or you would know it is the Asian teams that
cause the problems, especially if they have white umpires, or if they
are caught cheating. The fact that they hold much of the world cricket
tv revenue (billion cricket crazy Indians alone) means they can pull
the strings. International cricket is full of short cuts and half
measures. The whole game since it's conception (just after
hurling;))is based on betting perms. That's why some of the decisions
that an umpire has to make onfield would be more suited to a court
room.
England is the only "euro" full test cricket team. They have 4 or more
South Africans, a couple of Brit Asians born overseas, Eoin Morgan
from Dublin, and a couple of English players.
>
>the call vs Ireland was so blatantly bad though that it made the American
>sports talk shows as a topic.
>very little in sports over there makes much news over here but that did. two
>handballs and the guy was a mile offsides as was the man who actually
>scored. all ignored.
It looked bad on tv, I'm amazed a flag didn't go up or a whistle go
off. All the same France is a bigger higher spending market than
Ireland
>
>
mothed out
Bloody good point. They would probably get trounced as well.
Caít()
wrote:
> rematch... and Royal C**T er... Roy Keane just had to go and put his little
> peabrained comment into it didn't he... Grrr...
>
> We'll see how it all turns out next summer anyway...
>
> Ray
Actually, love him or loathe him, I thought he had a point. Before or
after the Hand of Frog incident, Ireland needed to score, and didn't.
Roy Keane merely reminded us that the job of any team is to score and
prevent the other team from so doing.
We really need to move on.
As I said earlier, the Irish are on the moral high ground, and a
rematch could never deliver the magic of last Wednesday.
On the plus side, we (the Irish, in case you are unclear) have a team
which has proven it can pull together and display some pretty good
football - which is not something too many of us through after last
Saturday's display.
Caít()
mothed out
Look at this way, there could be some net shopping bargains out
there
http://www.zazzle.co.uk/ireland_soccer_2009_t_shirt-235540248359843253
Caít()
Obviously, someone has yet to rethink the pricing policy...
My favourite Irish soccer tee shirt is the Trapattoni Hope one -
unfortunately can't find a pic of it anywhere online!!
Caít()
Caít()
wrote:
> different result and have the boys in Green going to South Africa instead of the
> boys in Blue... That's the point of the rematch. There's not going to be one
> now... So we'll have to live with it... But Henry is now forever stained as a
> cheat.. No history of his football career will be complete unless it mentions
> this contraversy... He choose to cheat, he got caught... The real story is
> that he ruined many an Irish soccer players dream of going to the WC in 2010...
>
> Ray
>
> Ray- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ray, don't forget that the Irish team needed to score an extra goal
before or after the Hand, and didn't. They could have scored in
Dublin, in fact missed many opportunities to do just this, and also
missed opportunities to score in Paris.
Thierry Henry did wrong, but at the end of the day, the Irish team
failed to score the second goal they needed. Let's move on and keep
things in perspective.
Caít()
mothed out
They may need to rethink some of their designs as well.
I mean, how many of THESE do they sell?
http://www.zazzle.co.uk/proud_to_be_irish_tshirt-235578995695286520
Caít()
Gasp!!!
Caít()
Westprog
> It's one of the
> few times when a good example actually caught on, because up until
> then the supporters of a team playing against Ireland in Dublin were
> just as likely to be at the bad end of football 'supporters' as they
> might have been in any English city.
I saw fans steal a Welsh flag and set fire to it. That was Jack's first game
in charge. I think the same thing happened to the Scots, who used to have
terrible fans.
> As for the handball thing, if the ref didn't see it then it didn't
> happen.
--
Sophistry Made Simple
> Sophistry Made Simple wrote:
>> It's one of the
>> few times when a good example actually caught on, because up until
>> then the supporters of a team playing against Ireland in Dublin were
>> just as likely to be at the bad end of football 'supporters' as they
>> might have been in any English city.
>
> I saw fans steal a Welsh flag and set fire to it. That was Jack's first
> game in charge. I think the same thing happened to the Scots, who used to
> have terrible fans.
Didn't see it myself, but I remember being horrified by a friend's
description of a match against Spain during which a group of Spanish
children were surrounded and attacked by Irish 'fans'.
mothed out
<spamala...@yourrplace.com> wrote:
> "Westprog" <westp...@hottmail.com> wrote in message
If you'd posted that in the heyday of this group you wouldn't have got
out alive. SCI really is moribund.
Sophistry Made Simple
"mothed out" <mothe...@live.com> wrote in message
news:7b34b4df-da9d-490f...@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
It's not the first time I've mentioned this. As for the state of the place -
killfile Cantillon and every other cross poster with no business being here.
Go to Google Groups, report the hatemongers and the loonies. Clear out the
shite and get the place moving again. That's the only way to repair the
damage and just maybe it might recover.
Westprog
For a lot of people, the main impression that they have of how a nation
behaves is to see their football fans. They are far more identifiable than
the ordinary tourist. Luckily when Irish fans started to go overseas in
numbers, they behaved very well.
Sophistry Made Simple
"Sophistry Made Simple" <spama...@yourrplace.com> wrote in message
news:z5DOm.30541$j7.4...@news.indigo.ie...
I can see that Cantillon is bleating a reply to this, but thankfully have no
idea what he's saying nor do I care, but as I know he can read this I will
post what I said elsewhere and just maybe it might sink in.
This is nothing to do with free speech, nothing to do with censorship.
Everyone is free to watch whatever films they like, but you wouldn't go to a
church to do it.
Everyone is free to read whatever books they want, but you don't do it in
work.
Everyone is free to say whatever they want, but you don't go shouting in a
library.
Everyone is free to eat whatever they want, but you don't ask for lobster in
McDonalds.
Everyone is free to post whatever US right wing looney shite they want to
post, but they shouldn't do it in SCI.
Everyone is free to read whatever US right wing looney shite they want to
read, but they shouldn't find it in SCI.
Sophistry Made Simple
> Sophistry Made Simple wrote:
>> "Westprog" <west...@hottmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:heed0k$eq$1...@news.datemas.de...
>>> Sophistry Made Simple wrote:
>>>> It's one of the
>>>> few times when a good example actually caught on, because up until
>>>> then the supporters of a team playing against Ireland in Dublin were
>>>> just as likely to be at the bad end of football 'supporters' as they
>>>> might have been in any English city.
>>>
>>> I saw fans steal a Welsh flag and set fire to it. That was Jack's
>>> first game in charge. I think the same thing happened to the Scots,
>>> who used to have terrible fans.
>>
>> Didn't see it myself, but I remember being horrified by a friend's
>> description of a match against Spain during which a group of Spanish
>> children were surrounded and attacked by Irish 'fans'.
>
> For a lot of people, the main impression that they have of how a nation
> behaves is to see their football fans. They are far more identifiable than
> the ordinary tourist. Luckily when Irish fans started to go overseas in
> numbers, they behaved very well.
The dole didn't stretch so far for Millwall and Chelsea types to be able to
afford to go so far in them days.
Westprog
...
> It's not the first time I've mentioned this. As for the state of the
> place - killfile Cantillon and every other cross poster with no
> business being here. Go to Google Groups, report the hatemongers and
> the loonies. Clear out the shite and get the place moving again.
> That's the only way to repair the damage and just maybe it might
> recover.
I don't think Usenet is fixable now. The format is moribund. Even the
simplest web forums allow variable fonts and embedded graphics and video.
Usenet is where the lunatics go to post write only screeds.
Imagine reading SCI for the first time, not knowing who the reasonable
people are. You'd think it was a mental illness group. All the obsessions
about Jews and the Yorkshire Ripper and The True Geology and that weird baby
stuff. It's as if most of the posters are in straitjackets typing with their
toes. It used to be that there would be one or two eccentrics - now you'd
assume that most people posting to SCI would be unable to function in normal
society.
Westprog
> I can see that Cantillon is bleating a reply to this, but thankfully
> have no idea what he's saying nor do I care, but as I know he can
> read this I will post what I said elsewhere and just maybe it might
> sink in.
> This is nothing to do with free speech, nothing to do with censorship.
You're just afraid of being exposed to his powerful ideas.
Westprog
numbers, they behaved very well.
>
> The dole didn't stretch so far for Millwall and Chelsea types to be
> able to afford to go so far in them days.
There haven't been major incidents from England fans for a while now, but
the harm has been done. Also there's a nasty atmosphere among a subgroup
even when it's not violent.
Sophistry Made Simple
> Sophistry Made Simple wrote:
> ...
>> It's not the first time I've mentioned this. As for the state of the
>> place - killfile Cantillon and every other cross poster with no
>> business being here. Go to Google Groups, report the hatemongers and
>> the loonies. Clear out the shite and get the place moving again.
>> That's the only way to repair the damage and just maybe it might
>> recover.
>
>
> I don't think Usenet is fixable now. The format is moribund. Even the
> simplest web forums allow variable fonts and embedded graphics and video.
> Usenet is where the lunatics go to post write only screeds.
>
> Imagine reading SCI for the first time, not knowing who the reasonable
> people are. You'd think it was a mental illness group. All the obsessions
> about Jews and the Yorkshire Ripper and The True Geology and that weird
> baby stuff. It's as if most of the posters are in straitjackets typing
> with their toes. It used to be that there would be one or two eccentrics -
> now you'd assume that most people posting to SCI would be unable to
> function in normal society.
Indeed, thank Cantillon for holding the door open and waving them in.
Sophistry Made Simple
> Sophistry Made Simple wrote:
> numbers, they behaved very well.
>>
>> The dole didn't stretch so far for Millwall and Chelsea types to be
>> able to afford to go so far in them days.
>
>
> There haven't been major incidents from England fans for a while now, but
> the harm has been done. Also there's a nasty atmosphere among a subgroup
> even when it's not violent.
What changed? Was it just the police had them screwed down so tight that
they couldn't do it anymore?
mothed out
> Sophistry Made Simple wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > It's not the first time I've mentioned this. As for the state of the
> > place - killfile Cantillon and every other cross poster with no
> > business being here. Go to Google Groups, report the hatemongers and
> > the loonies. Clear out the shite and get the place moving again.
> > That's the only way to repair the damage and just maybe it might
> > recover.
>
> I don't think Usenet is fixable now. The format is moribund. Even the
> simplest web forums allow variable fonts and embedded graphics and video.
Are all the ones you are thinking of moderated?
I haven't really bothered to check many out, though I think i'm going
to have to (or give up altogether)
At it's best, usenet did have a special kind of quality which did
arise partly from it's anonymity and lack of moderation.
Which of course has ultimately been it's downfall.
It's hard to imagine a means of moderation which would be genuinely
impartial, or which would provide a definition of 'loony' that
everyone could agree on.
Extremism was a part of it, a sort of bashing together of completely
different mental worlds - but in spite of living in the strangest
worlds, there were contributors who were willing and able to attempt
to defend their ideas in some kind of consistent way, and with
reference to all kinds of bona fide source material.
I have some kind of idea that banning crossposting, and maybe setting
up some automatically controlled 'good behaviour' criteria which might
have worked if anyone had been interested in developing the system.
That could have included limiting or banning crossposts, limiting the
overall volume of output, barriers and sigs that made automation
difficult...that would stop a lot of the mass spam and incontinent
scattershooting.
Usenet is indeed a lost cause. I presumably generates no money from ad
hits, or someone might have considered investing in development.
Have you found any forums on political/social issues that thrive or
retain the same atmosphere in spite of moderation?
mothed out
yes, been searching, there are some quite interesting ones. Moderation
is the only way forward it seems. But anything is better than this.
F�achad�ir
<mothe...@live.com> wrote:
>It's hard to imagine a means of moderation which would be genuinely
>impartial, or which would provide a definition of 'loony' that
>everyone could agree on.
The talk.origins group is moderated. The bot disallows multiple
cross-posts. Of course, talk.origins was set up specifically to lure
loons.
--
'Donegal: Up Here It's Different'
� F�achad�ir
F�achad�ir
<mothe...@live.com> wrote:
>Have you found any forums on political/social issues that thrive or
>retain the same atmosphere in spite of moderation?
Slugger O'Toole looks a lot like SCI a few years ago, though without
the humour. A lot of the old regulars from the nordie thread are
regulars there now. Boards, irishelection.com and politics.ie are full
of Southern political wonks.
What's your poison?
Doc Aay
**********
I agree with the opinions about usenet. There were several issues that
killed it, I think; the rise of webforums and the ubiquity of computers are
two. Computers were once pretty much owned by those who were more or less
bright enough to figure out how they worked.
That limited their use by people who have trouble putting together a
coherent thought. Usenet groups used to be like the old Times Letters to
the Editor. You could tell there was a lot of bile behind some of the
interactions, but there was also some respect and willingness to consider
the other person's argument. There was a lot more room for just playing
around too. You could post a wry comment or a pun and within five minutes
there would be ten replies to it. A moderated webforum does not have that
free-for-all feel to it.
It is very sad, but the loonies really have taken over the asylum.
Doc
Caít()
>
> ...
>
> > It's not the first time I've mentioned this. As for the state of the
> > place - killfile Cantillon and every other cross poster with no
> > business being here. Go to Google Groups, report the hatemongers and
> > the loonies. Clear out the shite and get the place moving again.
> > That's the only way to repair the damage and just maybe it might
> > recover.
>
> I don't think Usenet is fixable now. The format is moribund. Even the
> simplest web forums allow variable fonts and embedded graphics and video.
> Usenet is where the lunatics go to post write only screeds.
>
> Imagine reading SCI for the first time, not knowing who the reasonable
> people are. You'd think it was a mental illness group. All the obsessions
> about Jews and the Yorkshire Ripper and The True Geology and that weird baby
> stuff. It's as if most of the posters are in straitjackets typing with their
> toes. It used to be that there would be one or two eccentrics - now you'd
> assume that most people posting to SCI would be unable to function in normal
> society.
>
WHAT WEIRD BABY STUFF???
Caít() (ouch! Stubbed me ingrown pinky in my righteous outrage)
Caít()
>
> ...
>
> > It's not the first time I've mentioned this. As for the state of the
> > place - killfile Cantillon and every other cross poster with no
> > business being here. Go to Google Groups, report the hatemongers and
> > the loonies. Clear out the shite and get the place moving again.
> > That's the only way to repair the damage and just maybe it might
> > recover.
>
> I don't think Usenet is fixable now. The format is moribund. Even the
> simplest web forums allow variable fonts and embedded graphics and video.
> Usenet is where the lunatics go to post write only screeds.
Then again, there are a few usenet groups that are quite specialised
on a fairly narrow topic (gardening and photo are two I occasionally
frequent), and while there is some shite, there is a clear focus and
mostly worthwhile interesting stuff being posted.
I would imagine that more general discussion forums, such as SCI,
attract a greater variety and abundance of crap.
snip
Caít()
mothed out
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:53:32 -0800 (PST), mothed out
>
> >Have you found any forums on political/social issues that thrive or
> >retain the same atmosphere in spite of moderation?
>
> Slugger O'Toole looks a lot like SCI a few years ago, though without
> the humour. A lot of the old regulars from the nordie thread are
> regulars there now. Boards, irishelection.com and politics.ie are full
> of Southern political wonks.
>
> What's your poison?
> --
> 'Donegal: Up Here It's Different'
Thanks for the pointers.
Unknown
wrote:
>Sophistry Made Simple wrote:
>...
>> It's not the first time I've mentioned this. As for the state of the
>> place - killfile Cantillon and every other cross poster with no
>> business being here. Go to Google Groups, report the hatemongers and
>> the loonies. Clear out the shite and get the place moving again.
>> That's the only way to repair the damage and just maybe it might
>> recover.
>
>
>I don't think Usenet is fixable now. The format is moribund. Even the
>simplest web forums allow variable fonts and embedded graphics and video.
>Usenet is where the lunatics go to post write only screeds.
>
>Imagine reading SCI for the first time, not knowing who the reasonable
>people are. You'd think it was a mental illness group. All the obsessions
>about Jews and the Yorkshire Ripper and The True Geology and that weird baby
>stuff. It's as if most of the posters are in straitjackets typing with their
>toes. It used to be that there would be one or two eccentrics - now you'd
>assume that most people posting to SCI would be unable to function in normal
>society.
Name this tune.
"I really like this jacket but the sleeves are much too long"
max.it (the orange cage)
Westprog
I think the Irish fans found that people liked them when they realised that
they weren't English after all, so they responded to encouragement.
Though I did hear an eye-witness account of someone in a drunken rage
looking for a random Frenchman to beat up a couple of nights ago. But Temple
Bar, what can you expect?
Westprog
...
> WHAT WEIRD BABY STUFF???
> Ca�t() (ouch! Stubbed me ingrown pinky in my righteous outrage)
If you've missed it so far, then feel fortunate. (Apart from physical
injuries, of course).
Caít()
> Caít() wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > WHAT WEIRD BABY STUFF???
>
> If you've missed it so far, then feel fortunate. (Apart from physical
> injuries, of course).
>
> --
I thought, in my innocence, that you were referring to the
preoccupations of the Cyberaunties*...
I feel terribly fortunate indeed to not even be able to guess at the
depths of our resident loon's preoccupations.
Caít()
Sophistry Made Simple
> Sophistry Made Simple wrote:
>> "Westprog" <west...@hottmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hef14o$p3h$1...@news.datemas.de...
>>> Sophistry Made Simple wrote:
>>> numbers, they behaved very well.
>
>>>> The dole didn't stretch so far for Millwall and Chelsea types to be
>>>> able to afford to go so far in them days.
>
>>> There haven't been major incidents from England fans for a while
>>> now, but the harm has been done. Also there's a nasty atmosphere
>>> among a subgroup even when it's not violent.
>
>> What changed? Was it just the police had them screwed down so tight
>> that they couldn't do it anymore?
>
>
> I think the Irish fans found that people liked them when they realised
> that they weren't English after all, so they responded to encouragement.
I meant the English fans - why there hasn't been a major incident for a
while now/
> Though I did hear an eye-witness account of someone in a drunken rage
> looking for a random Frenchman to beat up a couple of nights ago. But
> Temple Bar, what can you expect?
Gods be with the days when you went there of an evening to get away from
crowds .
Ilas
> I meant the English fans - why there hasn't been a major incident for a
> while now/
Thousands of travel banning orders, impossible to get a ticket unless
you're a member of the England supporters club (or whatever it's called)
better policing (especially from the English police), and to a lesser
extent, success at encouraging a different type of fan.
Domestically, there's very little trouble at the PL grounds nowadays too,
for largely the same reasons, but I went to a League 1 derby (or division 3
as us old gets call it) recently, and it was like the 80s all over again.
Same when I went to a Champions League match in Milan, but the posturing
and violence was all from the Italian fans.
Westprog
>>> What changed? Was it just the police had them screwed down so tight
>>> that they couldn't do it anymore?
>> I think the Irish fans found that people liked them when they
>> realised that they weren't English after all, so they responded to
>> encouragement.
> I meant the English fans - why there hasn't been a major incident for
> a while now/
I think it peaked in the mid-70's. Then there was a period in the 80's,
early 90's when most of the violence was at international matches, and it's
been declining ever since. I suppose a generation of hooligans grew up, and
their children couldn't be bothered. Certainly it's no longer expected that
there'll be a major incident when England play any more.
>> Though I did hear an eye-witness account of someone in a drunken rage
>> looking for a random Frenchman to beat up a couple of nights ago. But
>> Temple Bar, what can you expect?
> Gods be with the days when you went there of an evening to get away
> from crowds .
Saturday night is out of bounds unless you actually want to get beaten up.
Westprog
> Domestically, there's very little trouble at the PL grounds nowadays
> too, for largely the same reasons, but I went to a League 1 derby (or
> division 3 as us old gets call it) recently, and it was like the 80s
> all over again. Same when I went to a Champions League match in
> Milan, but the posturing and violence was all from the Italian fans.
In Italy football is the way that fascism operates.