You reap what you sow.
Peter H.M. Brooks
to the terrorist attacks against the Balkans, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. etc.
carried out by the US.
As I have said many times, if you persist in sowing dragon's teeth you
can't be too surprised when the harvest comes.
--
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? - Who has custard with custard creams?
Major Molesworth Major Rtd. G&T&Bar
Howard Beale
Peter H.M. Brooks <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
news:9nlipg$cas$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> It appears to me that the attacks in the US are on a tiny scale compared
> to the terrorist attacks against the Balkans, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. etc.
> carried out by the US.
>
> As I have said many times, if you persist in sowing dragon's teeth you
> can't be too surprised when the harvest comes.
There is no excuse for terrorism. As always, innocents will pay the price.
--
Howard Beale
"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"
Peter H.M. Brooks
Howard Beale <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
news:9nlj0n$f15$1...@dorito.esatclear.ie...
>
> Peter H.M. Brooks <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> news:9nlipg$cas$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> > It appears to me that the attacks in the US are on a tiny scale
compared
> > to the terrorist attacks against the Balkans, Vietnam, Iraq, etc.
etc.
> > carried out by the US.
> >
> > As I have said many times, if you persist in sowing dragon's teeth
you
> > can't be too surprised when the harvest comes.
>
> There is no excuse for terrorism. As always, innocents will pay the
price.
>
tell you that if they were alive.
Pam_Ramirez
Howard Beale
>
> Howard Beale <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
> news:9nlj0n$f15$1...@dorito.esatclear.ie...
> >
> > Peter H.M. Brooks <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> > news:9nlipg$cas$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> > > It appears to me that the attacks in the US are on a tiny scale
> compared
> > > to the terrorist attacks against the Balkans, Vietnam, Iraq, etc.
> etc.
> > > carried out by the US.
> > >
> > > As I have said many times, if you persist in sowing dragon's teeth
> you
> > > can't be too surprised when the harvest comes.
> >
> > There is no excuse for terrorism. As always, innocents will pay the
> price.
> >
> Absolutely! 500,000 dead Iraqi children - murdered by US terrorism could
> tell you that if they were alive.
And how many innocent deaths will you accept in return?
Pam_Ramirez
Peter H.M. Brooks
Pam_Ramirez <pam_r...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3B9E5054...@yahoo.com
>
> fuck you bitch!
>
Quite right! That is just what the US has been saying to the world for
the past 50 years - now they know what it feels like, just a little bit.
Peter H.M. Brooks
Howard Beale <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
> > Absolutely! 500,000 dead Iraqi children - murdered by US terrorism
could
> > tell you that if they were alive.
>
> And how many innocent deaths will you accept in return?
>
terrorism.
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> fuck you again. why don't you come to america and tell us what you
think.
>
I can tell you from here, quite easily - you reap what you sow.
Now, if you have any sense you, and the rest of the country, will
reflect on how much US terrorism has hurt the rest of the world and
think about how sensible it would be to give it up in future.
If you don't sow Dragon's teeth you don't have to reap the bitter
harvest.
You have made your bed, now get used to lying in it.
Paddy O' Furniture
Howard Beale wrote in message <9nlj0n$f15$1...@dorito.esatclear.ie>...
>
>Peter H.M. Brooks <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
>news:9nlipg$cas$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>> It appears to me that the attacks in the US are on a tiny scale compared
>> to the terrorist attacks against the Balkans, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. etc.
>> carried out by the US.
>>
>> As I have said many times, if you persist in sowing dragon's teeth you
>> can't be too surprised when the harvest comes.
>
>There is no excuse for terrorism. As always, innocents will pay the price.
There was no excuse for the Vietnam war either.
Paddy O' Furniture
Pam_Ramirez wrote in message <3B9E51C1...@yahoo.com>...
>fuck you again. why don't you come to america and tell us what you think.
Think someone already did that...
Paddy O' Furniture
Peter H.M. Brooks wrote in message <9nlk06$g9o$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net>...
>
>Pam_Ramirez <pam_r...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:3B9E51C1...@yahoo.com
>
>>
>> fuck you again. why don't you come to america and tell us what you
>think.
>>
>I can tell you from here, quite easily - you reap what you sow.
>
>Now, if you have any sense you, and the rest of the country, will
>reflect on how much US terrorism has hurt the rest of the world and
>think about how sensible it would be to give it up in future.
Not very likely.
Peter H.M. Brooks
Paddy O' Furniture <re...@eircom.com> wrote in message
news:mwsn7.8854$s5.9...@news.indigo.ie...
and the Yanks don't appear to understand it even now. I am an optimist,
though, and would hope that at least some of them stop and think (if
they can) and wonder what they have done to reap just this crop.
Pam_Ramirez
soil. as you condone this act, you are one of the enemy....watch your
back
Pam_Ramirez
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> don't say any more you coward,
>
How rich for a Yank to call anybody else a coward! LOL!
>
> not until you can say it standing on US
> soil. as you condone this act, you are one of the enemy....watch your
>
Why should I want to go to Yankland? Planes bump into buildings, even
the President's pad is dangerous - besides all the 'planes are grounded
so, even if I wanted to go there I couldn't!
It appears that you don't understand the point (no surprise for a Yank).
Yankland sowed the dragon's teeth, not me, they are reaping the reward -
I am not paying it, only observe what some people call Karma.
Remember that, even after dominating Europe for five years, Hitler's
bunker was bombed - now you can imagine how he felt, and why.
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> big words from such a little bitch so far away.
>
Look up 'dragon's teeth' or ask a grown up to tell you about them.
Pam_Ramirez
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> come and get you dragon's teeth...
>
I suggested that you ask a grown up what it means - not try to think all
for yourself!
William A. T. Clark
<pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
So you're equating the US in 2001 with Hitler's Germany? And why don't
you have the courage to say what you mean directly, and not hide like a
weasel behind oblique statements like "...sowed the dragon's teeth...".
Seems to me that you and South Africa are a natural match, but I've got
news for you. You got there ten years too late.
William Clark
Pam_Ramirez
the nation that protects your stupid ass...you coward.
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, "Peter's motto is:
>
>It appears to me that the attacks in the US are on a tiny scale compared
>to the terrorist attacks against the Balkans, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. etc.
>carried out by the US.
>
>As I have said many times, if you persist in sowing dragon's teeth you
>can't be too surprised when the harvest comes.
The only consolation I will get after reading this is the certainty that you,
Peter HM Brooks, will get exactly what you deserve, either in this life or the
next. You are a soulless, inhuman monster and I hope every misery in the world
heaps itself upon you.
K.
--
"Boche had known a joiner who had stripped himself stark naked in the Rue Saint-
Martin and died doing the polka - he was an absinthe drinker." -- Emile Zola
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, "Peter's motto is:
>
>
>news:3B9E51C1...@yahoo.com
>
>>
>> fuck you again. why don't you come to america and tell us what you
>think.
>>
>I can tell you from here, quite easily - you reap what you sow.
>
>Now, if you have any sense you, and the rest of the country, will
>reflect on how much US terrorism has hurt the rest of the world and
>think about how sensible it would be to give it up in future.
>
>If you don't sow Dragon's teeth you don't have to reap the bitter
>harvest.
Who, those people who were killed? Were they the ones who determined foreign
policy? Were they the ones who carried out civilian massacres in southeast
Asia? Were they the ones enforcing sanctions on Iraq and Cuba? Those people in
the buildings today which were wiped off the face of the earth? Are they the
ones who are responsible?
Pam_Ramirez
dudalb
Iraq with your good buddy Saddam. Of couse it Might not be too healthy there
if Hussein was involved.
Brian Earp
> >
> Absolutely! 500,000 dead Iraqi children - murdered by US terrorism could
> tell you that if they were alive.
500,000? You have a reliable source for this assertion.
China Kate Sunflower
Signifying what, that this is acceptable turnabout? Tell that to the folks in
the WTC. Oh wait you can't, they're all dead.
Howard Beale
So what? Are you even old enough to remember it? Did you go out protesting
against it? Are you claiming responsability of behalf of Vietnam?
Peter J Lusby
Howard Beale's Sister wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:54:07 -0400, "William A. T. Clark"
> <clar...@osu.edu> wrote:
>
> >In article <9nllgr$gs0$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net>, "Peter H.M. Brooks"
> ><pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
> >
>
> >> Remember that, even after dominating Europe for five years, Hitler's
> >> bunker was bombed - now you can imagine how he felt, and why.
>
> Ohhhhh! You mentioned Hitler. You lose.
>
> >So you're equating the US in 2001 with Hitler's Germany? And why don't
> >you have the courage to say what you mean directly, and not hide like a
> >weasel behind oblique statements like "...sowed the dragon's teeth...".
> >
> >Seems to me that you and South Africa are a natural match, but I've got
> >news for you. You got there ten years too late.
> >
> >William Clark
>
> William, William, William. Peter is a troll. If he weren't jerking
> you around, he'd be masturbating.
Sadly, no, Peter H. M. Brooks is not a troll. He is actually an
intelligent, articulate man who, along with millions of others, has been
deeply deceived by the vast undercurrent of anti-american hatred that has
been propagated around the world. As an avowed pacifist, he has been taught
to look upon the America's reluctant involvement in overseas military
adventures as evidence that the US is bent upon world domination by hook or
by crook. It is doubly sad that one so intelligent has allowed himself to
be completely fooled into viewing only the anti-American propaganda, and
thinking that he has formed an educated and informed opinion when in reality
he has only ever been allowed to see the bits and pieces which support the
view that the anti-american camp wants to project..
Peter
--
"A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware" - Rupert Brooke - "The
Soldier"
Peter J Lusby
San Diego, California, USA
www.lusby.org
JMGrimp
> Pam_Ramirez <pam_r...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3B9E51C1...@yahoo.com
>
> >
> > fuck you again. why don't you come to america and tell us what you
> think.
> >
> I can tell you from here, quite easily - you reap what you sow.
>
> Now, if you have any sense you, and the rest of the country, will
> reflect on how much US terrorism has hurt the rest of the world and
> think about how sensible it would be to give it up in future.
South Africa is certainly one to talk about terrorism. Perhaps if we
help reinstitute white power, you'll be happier.
The truth is that the rest of the world has hurt the rest of the world
- - we just get called in to help save you from yourselves. We also
make an effective scapegoat for those without the cognitive ability to
understand the whole picture.
Vietnam was awful and we paid the price. Helping fight against
genocide in the Balkans and Imperialism and mass murder in Iraq is
only considered terrorism by those who approve of them in the first
place. Of course, that line of thinking seems par for the course in
South Africa.
Perhaps we should just butt out and let the rest of the world have go
at it. Of course, this is what led to WWI and WWII - - or are they our
fault as well?
Are you trolling Peter, or are you normally this self-riighteous and,
arguably, hypocritical?
Darcy Whibble
>"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
>
>help reinstitute white power, you'll be happier.
>
>The truth is that the rest of the world has hurt the rest of the world
>- - we just get called in to help save you from yourselves. We also
>make an effective scapegoat for those without the cognitive ability to
>understand the whole picture.
>
>Vietnam was awful and we paid the price. Helping fight against
>genocide in the Balkans and Imperialism and mass murder in Iraq is
>only considered terrorism by those who approve of them in the first
>place. Of course, that line of thinking seems par for the course in
>South Africa.
>
>Perhaps we should just butt out and let the rest of the world have go
>at it. Of course, this is what led to WWI and WWII - - or are they our
>fault as well?
>
country. You have the right to respond in full -- once you have proof who the
guilty party is. If it turns out that it _was_ bin laden, then you are
entitled to act against any country shielding him in a way that helps them
understand where the 'judaeo' in 'judaeo-christianity' came from. Offering
them twelve hours to turn him over to avoid having their country laid waste
for 1,000 years would do it. But you need the proof FIRST. Don't your security
services spend several billion dollars every year? I'm sure they're capable of
establishing who did it. Whether they'll tell you, of course, is another
matter.
--
Darcy Whibble, Whibble Towers, Northamptonshire
A nice arse should be seen and not heard
Niall
>It appears to me that the attacks in the US are on a tiny scale compared
>to the terrorist attacks against the Balkans, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. etc.
>carried out by the US.
You cannot possibly condemn any innocent loss of life in Iraq,
Serbia, Vietnam etc. unless you believe in a moral standard that
killing civilians is wrong, and if you accept that standard you cannot
condone or revel in the deaths of innocent Americans either. Unless,
of course, you are driven by blind anti-Americanism, which has aptly
been called the socialism of fools.
>As I have said many times, if you persist in sowing dragon's teeth you
>can't be too surprised when the harvest comes.
The terrorists, whether internal or external, know who they are and
what to expect. But those in the Western world who hate America and
want to see it brought low are effectively the enemies of our society
and ought to be despised as such. I'm a Canadian, and like many other
Canadians I have a real problem with the way the U.S. exercises its
powers, militarily, culturally, or economically. But I also happen to
know that the only thing protecting us and countless other small
countries from the barbarians outside the gates is the health and
well-being of the United States of America and its armed forces. So
God bless the lot of them. Better democracy with all its flaws than
the chaos that lies beyond -- as today's events have proven.
Niall
--
Dick Jackson
wrote:
>Don't your security
>services spend several billion dollars every year? I'm sure they're capable of
>establishing who did it. Whether they'll tell you, of course, is another
>matter.
Since they didn't see it coming, and since the attack was much more
organised and sophisticated than any we have seen before, I'm afraid
that I doubt that they will find out for sure who did it.
Unfortunately, this being so, it won't stop them from naming someone
(to satisfy US public opinion) and sending a few cruise missiles into
a desert somewhere.
Dick J.
Peter H.M. Brooks
China Kate Sunflower <norac...@stealthisspamblocker.celticweb.com>
wrote in message news:9nlls...@drn.newsguy.com...
> You are a soulless, inhuman monster and I hope every misery in the
world
> heaps itself upon you.
>
murder of 500,000 children declared that it was 'a price worth paying'?
Peter H.M. Brooks
China Kate Sunflower <norac...@stealthisspamblocker.celticweb.com>
wrote in message news:9nlm2...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Who, those people who were killed? Were they the ones who determined
foreign
> policy? Were they the ones who carried out civilian massacres in
southeast
> Asia? Were they the ones enforcing sanctions on Iraq and Cuba? Those
people in
> the buildings today which were wiped off the face of the earth? Are
they the
> ones who are responsible?
>
.etc. the ones responsible?
Peter H.M. Brooks
Peter J Lusby <p...@lusby.org> wrote in message
news:3B9E664C...@lusby.org...
>
>As an avowed pacifist, he has been taught
> to look upon the America's reluctant involvement in overseas military
> adventures as evidence that the US is bent upon world domination by
hook or
> by crook.
>
sovereign states against International Law and in contravention of the
Geneva Convention can only be described as the actions of a rogue state
and as terrorism. That it has attracted revenge is no surprise - and I
can't really see that it could be much of a surprise to any informed
American.
Peter H.M. Brooks
Brian Earp <bria...@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:gptn7.12915$4j4.68374@NewsReader...
Peter H.M. Brooks
JMGrimp <j...@baymountain.com> wrote in message
news:599b2f3a.01091...@posting.google.com...
> Helping fight against
> genocide in the Balkans
>
genocide and 'ethnic cleansing' in the Balkans occurred after the NATO
invasion and was, as predicted before their invasion, caused largely by
it.
Peter H.M. Brooks
Dick Jackson <hc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:dq3tptossfs2uf9u1...@4ax.com...
factories - I will be happy. The Empty Quarter might be a good spot.
Peter H.M. Brooks
Niall <s...@milkyway.org> wrote in message
news:3b9e8827...@news1.ns.sympatico.ca...
>
>Better democracy with all its flaws than
> the chaos that lies beyond -- as today's events have proven.
>
'making the world safe for democracy' - as the orwellian phrases for
attacking non-subservient states has it.
Mark Devlin
> So, what do you call Madeleine Albright who, on considering the US
> murder of 500,000 children declared that it was 'a price worth paying'?
I've been spending some time this evening trying to ascertain whether a
friend and colleague who works for a firm with offices in the World Trade
Center is safe. (I don't think he has had very much to do with American
genocide against foreign children but he is, after all, a Canadian, and as
such should expect to pay the price for, ehh, being from a country just atop
America.) No luck getting any news, though, so I'll pause here to marvel at
you, you astonishingly small sad man.
Even accepting arguendo that Mrs Albright personally murdered a half
million innocent children, then she merits no more than consignment to the
same hell in which the authors of today's murders belong. Your prim
satisfaction at what looks to be several tens of thousands of other innocents
murdered says a lot about you, though I imagine you have been vouchsafed the
mercy of being unable to perceive how contemptible you are. Mercy is an
important thing, to my way of thinking, and so for your sake I hope that
you may continue to your grave without this sort of thing ever becoming more
than an armchair abstraction for you.
--
Mark Devlin kr...@REVERSEocixotSMALL.edLETTERS www.toxico.de
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, "Peter's motto is:
>
>
>wrote in message news:9nlls...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> You are a soulless, inhuman monster and I hope every misery in the
>world
>> heaps itself upon you.
>>
>So, what do you call Madeleine Albright who, on considering the US
>murder of 500,000 children declared that it was 'a price worth paying'?
I don't have anything to say about that.
Either you think killing innocent people is OK, or you don't. If you think
killing innocent people in NYC is fair turnabout, then you can't complain about
killing innocent people in My Lai, No Gun Ri, Iraq, Bosnia, etc.
I stand by my hope that your live will be visited by suffering and grief beyond
human understanding, and that when it does you think back on what you have said
today and know you brought it upon your own head.
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, "Peter's motto is:
>
>
>wrote in message news:9nlm2...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> Who, those people who were killed? Were they the ones who determined
>foreign
>> policy? Were they the ones who carried out civilian massacres in
>southeast
>> Asia? Were they the ones enforcing sanctions on Iraq and Cuba? Those
>people in
>> the buildings today which were wiped off the face of the earth? Are
>they the
>> ones who are responsible?
>>
>Were the civilians bombed in Baghdad, Serbia, Kosovo, Vietnam etc. etc
>.etc. the ones responsible?
No. Do you think blood for blood is morally acceptable?
China Kate Sunflower
>
>Howard Beale, on Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:56:50 +0100, in soc.culture.irish
>said this:
>:
>:Peter H.M. Brooks <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
>:news:9nlj4e$g4b$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net...
>:>
>:> Howard Beale <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
>:> news:9nlj0n$f15$1...@dorito.esatclear.ie...
>:> >
>:> > Peter H.M. Brooks <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
>:> > news:9nlipg$cas$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>:> > > It appears to me that the attacks in the US are on a tiny scale
>:> compared
>:> > > to the terrorist attacks against the Balkans, Vietnam, Iraq, etc.
>:> etc.
>:> > > carried out by the US.
>:> > > As I have said many times, if you persist in sowing dragon's teeth
>:> you
>:> > > can't be too surprised when the harvest comes.
>:> > There is no excuse for terrorism. As always, innocents will pay the
>:> price.
>:> >
>:> Absolutely! 500,000 dead Iraqi children - murdered by US terrorism could
>:> tell you that if they were alive.
>:And how many innocent deaths will you accept in return?
>:
>
>He has a point, painful though it may be.
>
>We're all responsible. Somehow.
Right, so it would be perfectly OK with you if your friends were the ones buried
by 110 stories of concrete and steel? Because "we're all responsible"?
Kevinmccabe1
>Date: 9/11/01 6:08 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <UPwn7.441645$ai2.33...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
Well said, Devlin, I was beginning to have worries as to your safety (given the
international practice). Sorry to hear about your friend. Any word of Sweeney?
Kevin McCabe
Howard Beale
David Delahunty <use...@ddelahunty.invalid> wrote in message
news:nh4tpt01pfanvboh9...@4ax.com...
> Howard Beale, on Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:56:50 +0100, in soc.culture.irish
> said this:
> :
> :Peter H.M. Brooks <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> :news:9nlj4e$g4b$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net...
> :>
> :> Howard Beale <how...@REMOVEmad-as-hell.com> wrote in message
> :> news:9nlj0n$f15$1...@dorito.esatclear.ie...
> :> >
> :> > Peter H.M. Brooks <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
> :> > news:9nlipg$cas$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> :> > > It appears to me that the attacks in the US are on a tiny scale
> :> compared
> :> > > to the terrorist attacks against the Balkans, Vietnam, Iraq, etc.
> :> etc.
> :> > > carried out by the US.
> :> > >
> :> > > As I have said many times, if you persist in sowing dragon's teeth
> :> you
> :> > > can't be too surprised when the harvest comes.
> :> >
> :> > There is no excuse for terrorism. As always, innocents will pay the
> :> price.
> :> >
> :> Absolutely! 500,000 dead Iraqi children - murdered by US terrorism
could
> :> tell you that if they were alive.
> :
> :And how many innocent deaths will you accept in return?
> :
>
> He has a point, painful though it may be.
>
> We're all responsible. Somehow.
I'm not. BTW, I was on the very same Jumbo that crashed into Lockerbie, just
a couple of months after. That wasn't my fault either.
--
Howard Beale
"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"
Kevinmccabe1
>Date: 9/11/01 6:46 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <pf8tpt4kpabv827ks...@4ax.com>
>
Lot more horses' asses than horses in this world, aren't there Mac?
Kevin McCabe
Niall
>Niall <s...@milkyway.org> wrote in message
>news:3b9e8827...@news1.ns.sympatico.ca...
>>
>>Better democracy with all its flaws than
>> the chaos that lies beyond -- as today's events have proven.
>>
>But this 'chaos' today has been caused directly by 'democracy' and
>'making the world safe for democracy' - as the orwellian phrases for
>attacking non-subservient states has it.
So you assume that today's atrocity is in some way related to the
Middle East and the grievances of fundamentalist Islam? Fair enough.
It's a bit premature to say so, but I'll go along with it for the sake
of argument.
What then? The US is being targetted -- why? Presumably because
it is a friend to Israel. And what is Israel? A beleaguered Middle
Eastern democracy, surrounded by implacable enemies. Certainly
Israel is capable of behaviour that is paranoiac, arrogant, inhumane
-- and all simply because it (rightly) fears for its very existence. I
wish Israel would clean up its act, but then again my country is not
surrounded by hostile states who have vowed to drive my people
into the sea. And those hostile states have human rights records that
are far worse than Israel (despite mysteriously not being singled out
by the UN for condemnation on these matters). If this were still 1948,
I might agree that the Palestinians had a case. But this is 2001, time
has moved on and Israel is here to stay. The Israelis have a right to
protect themselves from destruction by their enemies and the US has
if anything a duty to help them.
America's role in the Mideast, most recently as a broker of
hopelessly optimistic "peace accords" (doomed from the beginning
because of Palestinian intransigence), redounds greatly to its honour
and hardly merits or in any other way explains away the murder of
thousands of innocent American civilians.
I notice you put "democracy" in quotation marks. Well Peter, I
live in a democracy without quotation marks. And I believe that my
government and its American allies are justified in acting reasonably
to defend our way of life from the sort of people who crash airliners
into tall buildings.
Niall
--
Dennis G.
>But this 'chaos' today has been caused directly by 'democracy' and
>'making the world safe for democracy' - as the orwellian phrases for
>attacking non-subservient states has it.
>
That's an oxymoron . Chaos caused by democracy.
The chaos was caused by terrorists flying fuel-laden jet liners into buildings
occupied by working people.
Saying its caused by some magic tooth fairy type of event is ridiculous.
Dennis
Terry McT
<kevinm...@aol.com> wrote:
> >(Mark Devlin)
[snipped]
>
> Well said, Devlin, I was beginning to have worries as to your safety (given
> the
> international practice). Sorry to hear about your friend. Any word of Sweeney?
>
Sweeney works and lives in the suburbs of DC, not far from me. No
word, but I'd bet the Sweenster is just busy and not online.
Terry
Pierre Bastien
news:3b9eb978...@news.telus.net...
-- Making the world safe for democracy:
Ask people in:
-Iraq (bombed and starved by sanctions, over 1 million dead, thousands
killed in Gulf War)
-Tanzania (spends more $ on repaying loans to the IMF than on
healthcare or education)
-Japan (occupied by US Army)
-Palestine (US supports Israel in illegal occupation of West Bank and
Gaza, thousands dead)
-Nicaragua (thousands of civilians murdered by US funded death squads,
now forced to cut health and education spending due to an IMF
structural adjustment plan)
-Chile (US backed Fascist military coup, resulting in the deaths of
thousands)
-El Salvador (US backed death squads overthrow democratically elected
officials and murder thousands)
-Guatemala (US backed death squads, at the behest of United Fruit
Company, overthrow democratically elected president and murder
thousands)
-Vieques, Puerto Rico (Used for bombing practice by US Navy)
-Mozambique (because of IMF/World Bank policies, spend more on debt
repayments than on social services)
-Europe (US backs out of Kyoto Accords on Climate Change, pushes ahead
with "Star Wars" missle defense system, despite ABM treaty)
-Colombia (US military aid currently funding Colombian military and
therein right-wing paramilitary death squads that have killed
thousands)
-Sudan (Factory producing children's pharmaceuticals bombed by US;
mistaken for weapons factory)
-Serbia (Violating the Geneva Conventions on War, the US destroyed
Belgrade's civilian infrastructure (bridges, water, sanitation))
-Russia (US poised to pull out of ABM treaty and build missle defense
system)
-Kenya (IMF threatens to withdraw loan if public school teachers are
given raise)
-South Africa (US drug companies attempt to stop govt. from producing
generic AIDS meds, would cause millions to lose prescription coverage)
-Vietnam ...
Pierre
Orestes
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message news:<9nlk06$g9o$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net>...
> > Pam_Ramirez <pam_r...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:3B9E51C1...@yahoo.com
> >
> > >
> > > fuck you again. why don't you come to america and tell us what you
> think.
> > >
> > I can tell you from here, quite easily - you reap what you sow.
> >
> > Now, if you have any sense you, and the rest of the country, will
> > reflect on how much US terrorism has hurt the rest of the world and
> > think about how sensible it would be to give it up in future.
>
> South Africa is certainly one to talk about terrorism. Perhaps if we
> help reinstitute white power, you'll be happier.
>
> The truth is that the rest of the world has hurt the rest of the world
> - - we just get called in to help save you from yourselves. We also
> make an effective scapegoat for those without the cognitive ability to
> understand the whole picture.
>
> Vietnam was awful and we paid the price. Helping fight against
> genocide in the Balkans and Imperialism and mass murder in Iraq is
> only considered terrorism by those who approve of them in the first
> place.
Nonsense. What you (America), Germany and Britain did to the former
republic of Yugoslavia was positively hitleresque. You (your leadeers)
funded and armed seccessionist groups, fabricated massacre stories,
and on the pretext of those false stories bombed the hell out of some
second world nation killing thousands of civilians in the process.
However, such an evil in no way justifies the evil that was
perpetrated against your nation today, and my heart goes out to the
victims and their families.
<snip>
David Delahunty
this:
:>MacHamish rjim...@home.removethis.com
You be happy in your cosseted little world there, Kevin.
Oops.
David Delahunty
this:
:On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:32:26 GMT, David Delahunty
:<use...@ddelahunty.invalid> wrote:
:
:>Kevinmccabe1, on 12 Sep 2001 00:48:35 GMT, in soc.culture.irish said
:Well, Kevin is right, you know.
No. I don't know and don't want to know (recognise this line)
: Take Peter HM Brooks, for
:example.....please.
No thanks.
:
:<with apologies to Henny Youngman>
Keep that out of here please.
:
:MacHamish Mór
Oh.
Pat Durkin
> Absolutely! 500,000 dead Iraqi children - murdered by US terrorism could
> tell you that if they were alive.
Your statistics are questionable Brooks. But hey! Anything to make a
point, right?
Eat shit.
Pat Durkin
SW
>
> Pam_Ramirez <pam_r...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3B9E51C1...@yahoo.com
>
> >
> > fuck you again. why don't you come to america and tell us what you
> think.
> >
> I can tell you from here, quite easily - you reap what you sow.
>
> Now, if you have any sense you, and the rest of the country, will
> reflect on how much US terrorism has hurt the rest of the world and
> think about how sensible it would be to give it up in future.
>
> harvest.
>
> You have made your bed, now get used to lying in it.
If it wasn't for the US, you and the rest of your countrymen would be
speaking German and giving stiff-arm salutes, you simplistic twit.
Steve
Peter H.M. Brooks
Mark Devlin <k...@emloam.mi> wrote in message
news:UPwn7.441645$ai2.33...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> >
> Even accepting arguendo that Mrs Albright personally murdered a half
> million innocent children, then she merits no more than consignment to
the
> same hell in which the authors of today's murders belong. Your prim
> satisfaction at what looks to be several tens of thousands of other
innocents
> murdered says a lot about you, though I imagine you have been
vouchsafed the
> mercy of being unable to perceive how contemptible you are. Mercy is
an
> important thing, to my way of thinking, and so for your sake I hope
that
> you may continue to your grave without this sort of thing ever
becoming more
> than an armchair abstraction for you.
>
NATO in the Balkans - to mention just one recent similar atrocity.
Peter H.M. Brooks
China Kate Sunflower <norac...@stealthisspamblocker.celticweb.com>
wrote in message news:9nm5p...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
> I stand by my hope that your live will be visited by suffering and
grief beyond
> human understanding, and that when it does you think back on what you
have said
> today and know you brought it upon your own head.
>
people to take retribution gainst US terrorism - and how the US brought
it upon itself by its own actions.
Peter H.M. Brooks
China Kate Sunflower <norac...@stealthisspamblocker.celticweb.com>
wrote in message news:9nm5r...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
> >>
> >Were the civilians bombed in Baghdad, Serbia, Kosovo, Vietnam etc.
etc
> >.etc. the ones responsible?
>
> No. Do you think blood for blood is morally acceptable?
>
were killed by US weapons??
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
>
> I notice you put "democracy" in quotation marks. Well Peter, I
> live in a democracy without quotation marks. And I believe that my
> government and its American allies are justified in acting reasonably
> to defend our way of life from the sort of people who crash airliners
> into tall buildings.
>
acceptable cost to you. Then surely you can see how the rest of the
world would see that a few thousand Americans would be an acceptable
cost (using the American view) not just to maintain their 'way of life'
but to maintain their life.
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> >But this 'chaos' today has been caused directly by 'democracy' and
> >'making the world safe for democracy' - as the orwellian phrases for
> >attacking non-subservient states has it.
> >
>
> That's an oxymoron . Chaos caused by democracy.
>
members being democracies) is an illusion and the thousands of innocent
civilians killed by Nato are not really dead but just sleeping?
Peter H.M. Brooks
Orestes <think...@dlcwest.com> wrote in message
news:9d318386.01091...@posting.google.com...
>
> Nonsense. What you (America), Germany and Britain did to the former
> republic of Yugoslavia was positively hitleresque. You (your leadeers)
> funded and armed seccessionist groups, fabricated massacre stories,
> and on the pretext of those false stories bombed the hell out of some
> second world nation killing thousands of civilians in the process.
>
> However, such an evil in no way justifies the evil that was
> perpetrated against your nation today, and my heart goes out to the
> victims and their families.
>
firebombing of civilians in German cities during WWII - if this bombing
reduced the amount of terrorism exported by the US?
Peter H.M. Brooks
SW <s...@home.com> wrote in message
news:qfAn7.4907$tL2.4...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
>
>
> If it wasn't for the US, you and the rest of your countrymen would be
> speaking German and giving stiff-arm salutes, you simplistic twit.
>
thousands of civilians in Dresden was perfectly OK to reduce Nazi
terrorism - but suddenly a killing of civilians in New York to reduce US
terrorism is wrong? Either you believe in killing civilians for a cause
(US way of life/End of US terrorism) or you don't. You can't have it
both ways.
Peter H.M. Brooks
Pat Durkin <clo...@DELETETHISpacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3B9ED05B...@DELETETHISpacbell.net...
sources.
Isn't it funny that you haven't been interested in all those people
being killed because they weren't Americans. Doesn't that make you feel
rather sick?
Sweeney the Wanderer
Busy my arse.
Baby Belle works three blocks from the WTC and I had a rather nasty morning
until she could get in touch and tell me that due to a a schedule screw-up she
was midtown and not riding her bike past the WTC at 8:45 as she normally would
have been. Maimonides-Bonhoeffer was taking a class down at the Patuxent Naval
Base when they kicked out anyone that wasn't a fighter pilot and since the
phones were jammed he came flying up the highway from So. MD to find out if his
sister was OK. Then I had to track down the Rocketeer who was trapped on the
Indian Head base with the Marine anti-terrorist unit who were clogging up the
works with their choppers and Humvees as they moved up the highway to D.C.
Phones were jammed there too. Rowdy Belle was in Nashville creating auditing
hell for a bunch of hapless bookkeepers and calling here on the hour. My brother
called. My 273 in-laws called. Baby Belle's friends at the University of
Maryland called. I got in touch with a friend whose husband works at the
Pentagon (she was not in good shape, but he turned out to be unharmed) Baby
Belle called again and said that their were soldiers with assault rifles in
front of her dorm and that no one could locate her friend Dave who lives
downtown. My son in law was on the other line to his father in Tampa, Fla. and
trying to locate an aunt at Chase Manhattan in NY.
I haven't done any work all day. Anybody got something stronger than Axid?
Sweeney
Terry McT
<ban...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <110920012132452704%mcti...@earthlink.net.takeout>, Terry says...
> >
> >In article <20010911201702...@mb-fh.aol.com>, Kevinmccabe1
> ><kevinm...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> >(Mark Devlin)
> >[snipped]
> >>
> >> Well said, Devlin, I was beginning to have worries as to your safety (given
> >> the
> >>international practice). Sorry to hear about your friend. Any word of
> >>Sweeney?
> >>
> >
> >
> >Sweeney works and lives in the suburbs of DC, not far from me. No
> >word, but I'd bet the Sweenster is just busy and not online.
>
> Busy my arse.
>
> Baby Belle works three blocks from the WTC and I had a rather nasty morning
> until she could get in touch and tell me that due to a a schedule screw-up she
> was midtown and not riding her bike past the WTC at 8:45 as she normally would
> have been.
I'm so sorry. You must have gone through hell.
> Maimonides-Bonhoeffer was taking a class down at the Patuxent Naval
> Base when they kicked out anyone that wasn't a fighter pilot and since the
> phones were jammed he came flying up the highway from So. MD to find out if
> his
> sister was OK. Then I had to track down the Rocketeer who was trapped on the
> Indian Head base with the Marine anti-terrorist unit who were clogging up the
> works with their choppers and Humvees as they moved up the highway to D.C.
> Phones were jammed there too. Rowdy Belle was in Nashville creating auditing
> hell for a bunch of hapless bookkeepers and calling here on the hour. My
> brother
> called. My 273 in-laws called. Baby Belle's friends at the University of
> Maryland called. I got in touch with a friend whose husband works at the
> Pentagon (she was not in good shape, but he turned out to be unharmed) Baby
> Belle called again and said that their were soldiers with assault rifles in
> front of her dorm and that no one could locate her friend Dave who lives
> downtown. My son in law was on the other line to his father in Tampa, Fla. and
> trying to locate an aunt at Chase Manhattan in NY.
Good lord, Sweeney
>
> I haven't done any work all day. Anybody got something stronger than Axid?
I'm thinking about having a shot of whiskey or two, myself.
Terry
JAY MORGAN
from dominating Europe for years? Can you make a guess?
It wasn't your sorry muslim ass!
JAY MORGAN
behavior of people like Peter and the other fanatics cheering and
dancing in the street in Palestine.
I have never seen an American cheer or pass out sweets to their children
after an attack on civilians or the military.
me thinks, Peter should return to Palestine where he can (or more
likely) send his children out to throw rocks at the Israelis and set off
car bombs, then whine when the Israelis retaliate.
And when he does, and the Israelis retaliate, I will not cheer, because
I am civilized.
dudalb
had it coming. I love these freaking US hating Euros.
JAY MORGAN
JAY MORGAN
Have you forgotten that Kuwait and Saudi Arabia asked for American help?
Have you forgotten that Japan attacked America?
have you forgotten that the Palestinians attack the Isralis in one way
or another every day?
Have you forgotten the Palestinians destroy every country they get near,
i.e Lebanon because they are a bunch of crazed fanatics?
Probably haven't forgotten. You probably never knew. Or, you are one of
them.
Tony Cooper
> Would it be justified - as the Americans tried to justify the
> firebombing of civilians in German cities during WWII - if this bombing
> reduced the amount of terrorism exported by the US?
Err, Peter, it was the British that firebombed Dresden and
Hamburg.
The British are from the United Kingdom, wear different
uniforms than the U.S., and have a completely different
flag. (At least, since 1776) I know you have a warped view
of things, but there are enough clues for even you to figure
out the difference between the U.S. and the U.K.
We are the ones that dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and
Nagasaki. If you wish to chastize us, at least do it
properly.
JAY MORGAN
firebombing the poor Germans during the 2ww.
Never mind the buzz bombs the Germans sent to London nightly.
I've got news for you idiot. My German friend, who was in Frankfurt
during the entire war, tells me she thanks god every day for America
saving them from the likes of Hitler.
Pat Durkin
> > > Absolutely! 500,000 dead Iraqi children - murdered by US terrorism
> could
> > > tell you that if they were alive.
> >
> >
> > Your statistics are questionable Brooks. But hey! Anything to make a
> > point, right?
> >
> Not at all. Look them up on http://www.bmj.co.uk
Oh! Well then...if they're on your favourite website I'm sure they're
legit. Excuse me. (Not!)
Pat Durkin
PS - You're still a dipshit.
gregory....@ntlworld.com
China Kate Sunflower wrote:
>
> Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like? Their walls are built on
> cannonballs, "Peter's motto is:
> >
> >It appears to me that the attacks in the US are on a tiny scale compared
> >to the terrorist attacks against the Balkans, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. etc.
> >carried out by the US.
> >
> >As I have said many times, if you persist in sowing dragon's teeth you
> >can't be too surprised when the harvest comes.
>
> The only consolation I will get after reading this is the certainty that you,
> Peter HM Brooks, will get exactly what you deserve, either in this life or the
> next. You are a soulless, inhuman monster and I hope every misery in the world
> heaps itself upon you.
>
> K.
>
Hit him were it hurts, ignore him.
--
Respectfully submitted
Gregory
gregory....@ntlworld.com
Mark Devlin wrote:
>
> In article <9nm3mc$lpk$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net>, "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>
> > So, what do you call Madeleine Albright who, on considering the US
> > murder of 500,000 children declared that it was 'a price worth paying'?
>
>
> Even accepting arguendo that Mrs Albright personally murdered a half
> million innocent children, then she merits no more than consignment to the
> same hell in which the authors of today's murders belong.
Yes she does.
"Meanwhile US and UK politicians insist that the sanctions regime is
necessary to contain the threat of Saddam Hussein. When asked on US
television whether the death of 500,000 Iraqi children as a result of
sanctions was justified Madelaine Albright replied 'I think this is a
very hard choice, but the price - we think the price is worth it.' "
http://pilger.carlton.com/iraq
--
Respectfully submitted
Gregory
Niall
>I see, so the murder of 500,000 children to keep your petrol cheap is an
>acceptable cost to you.
Peter, you are not listening. Perhaps you are not an entirely
rational man, but I will try explaining this to you one more time.
I am on record on Usenet as having condemned the aerial bombing
of civilians in Serbia by NATO. I have been vehemently opposed
to sanctions both when such opposition was fashionable (Iraq) and
when it was not (apartheid-era South Africa). I am being perfectly
consistent and sensible when I say that the United States has not
done anything more to merit the mass destruction of its population
than has Iraq or Serbia -- and when I say that, in any case, the
influence of the United States on world affairs has been far more
benign than that of those two countries.
I never mentioned petrol at all, so I can only assume that you're
starting to demolish strawmen in frustration here.
>Then surely you can see how the rest of the
>world would see that a few thousand Americans would be an acceptable
>cost (using the American view) not just to maintain their 'way of life'
>but to maintain their life.
Who are we talking about here? What "rest of the world"? The
only people celebrating at the moment are those living in countries
where the ruling authorities are fanatically anti-American -- and not
too surprisingly, these countries / authorities are repressive
dictatorships and hardly in a position to claim any kind of moral
superiority. Is it supposed to carry weight with me that a Palestinian
has fired his gun into the air in celebration before getting back to
the business of killing Israelis? Am I supposed to be impressed that
citizens in China are gloating at the US when Tibet is dying? Do I
empathize with America's poisonous enemies in the Balkans and their
genocidal impulses? Sorry Peter, but no. Hatred of America is not
noble and these are not noble people are who exulting in the death
of US citizens -- they are rabble.
Niall
--
Mark Devlin
<pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
> Mark Devlin <k...@emloam.mi> wrote in message
> news:UPwn7.441645$ai2.33...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> > >
> > Even accepting arguendo that Mrs Albright personally murdered a half
> > million innocent children, then she merits no more than consignment to
> the
> > same hell in which the authors of today's murders belong. Your prim
> > satisfaction at what looks to be several tens of thousands of other
> innocents
> > murdered says a lot about you, though I imagine you have been
> vouchsafed the
> > mercy of being unable to perceive how contemptible you are. Mercy is
> an
> > important thing, to my way of thinking, and so for your sake I hope
> that
> > you may continue to your grave without this sort of thing ever
> becoming more
> > than an armchair abstraction for you.
> >
> I hope that you had a similar disgust at the attacks on civilians by
> NATO in the Balkans - to mention just one recent similar atrocity.
For all your carefully crafted facade of cleverness, you're having surprising
difficulty with what is really a very simple concept. Surprising, in that
there is no necessary connection between intellectual and moral idiocy;
hence I hadn't expected to see the former join itself in you to the latter.
--
Mark Devlin kr...@REVERSEocixotSMALL.edLETTERS www.toxico.de
gregory....@ntlworld.com
Niall wrote:
>
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:43:54 +0200, "Peter H.M. Brooks"
> <pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>
> >I see, so the murder of 500,000 children to keep your petrol cheap is an
> >acceptable cost to you.
>
> Peter, you are not listening. Perhaps you are not an entirely
> rational man, but I will try explaining this to you one more time.
> I am on record on Usenet as having condemned the aerial bombing
> of civilians in Serbia by NATO. I have been vehemently opposed
> to sanctions both when such opposition was fashionable (Iraq) and
> when it was not (apartheid-era South Africa). I am being perfectly
> consistent and sensible when I say that the United States has not
> done anything more to merit the mass destruction of its population
> than has Iraq or Serbia -- and when I say that, in any case, the
> influence of the United States on world affairs has been far more
> benign than that of those two countries.
Your last sentence is patently an utter and complete falsehood. The
United States as a state is a global bad guy. The United states as a
state deserves ifthe notion of justice means a damn thing to be compared
to the other very bad guys. What happened yesterday is however not
related in any moral or ethical way to the United States dubious
activities as a delinquent government or series of delinquent
governments. That has *nothing* to do with yesterday.
A depraved and godless massacre in the USA can't be made more palatable
simply because the United States frequently treats the rest of this
planet with naked contempt or because the United States has as a
political actor on the world stage frequently been a force for harm or
genocide or persecution or atrocity.
The massacre of civilians as a program requires discrete acts of
criminality which can't be laid at the door of the population of the
national culprit be it Iraq or be it the USA. That is what Madelaine
Albright sought to justify. That is her type sick and twisted ideology.
That is why she was an evil person. The only premise we need to grasp is
that two wrongs still equals two wrongs and doesn't equal a right of any
kind. The 500,000 dead kids in Iraq doesn't cancel out what happened
yesterday.
"Meanwhile US and UK politicians insist that the sanctions regime is
necessary to contain the threat of Saddam Hussein. When asked on US
television whether the death of 500,000 Iraqi children as a result of
sanctions was justified Madelaine Albright replied 'I think this is a
very hard choice, but the price - we think the price is worth it.' "
http://pilger.carlton.com/iraq
Osama bin Laden is morally no better than Madelaine Albright and that
woman and her kind share in a shared responsibility for human rights
atrocity both on the grand scale and globally. Perhaps the worse thing
we can say about Osama bin Laden is that he is no better than the
Madelaine Albrights of this world.
One discrete wrong can't be made 'better' because another preceding
wrong is in place to 'dilute' the intrinsic foulness of the 'revenging'
atrocity. In a perfect world a lot of evil people which would include
senior American politicians would share the same cells in the same
prison as Osama bin Laden and his scum infested crew of Godless
perverts.
--
Respectfully submitted
Gregory
Niall
>Your last sentence is patently an utter and complete falsehood. The
>United States as a state is a global bad guy.
I think the causes that the US has found itself involved in over
the years have been basically just; the problem is that in order
to achieve its ends it has often resorted to dubious or immoral
actions. What this means is that, although we can and should
condemn individual acts of US policy as repellent, we can't say
that the overall presence of that country on the world stage causes
more harm than good. The military strength of the US, for example,
is what is shoring up the security of the Western democracies,
and as a citizen of a Western democracy myself I am very
grateful for that.
I completely agree that Albright's point of view on the Iraqi
sanctions is disgusting and morally bankrupt. But as you say,
these issues are separate from the rightness or wrongness of
terror attacks on the US.
Niall
--
The Acolytes of the Great Prophet Carr
<pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>Were the civilians bombed in Baghdad, Serbia, Kosovo, Vietnam etc. etc
>.etc. the ones responsible?
No, but I don't remember the Americans deliberately targeting them
either. I hope you feel as supercilliously objective about this when
members of your family are murdered by terrorists for events they had
no direct involvement or control over.
Gavin Bailey
--
Fochinell
"Ancient Scots battlecry" painted on the side of a Spitfire Mk. XIV in 1944
- presumably without Air Ministry approval.
The Acolytes of the Great Prophet Carr
<pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>JMGrimp <j...@baymountain.com> wrote in message
>news:599b2f3a.01091...@posting.google.com...
>> Helping fight against
>> genocide in the Balkans
>>
>In fact, as any study of the facts will show you quite quickly, the
>genocide and 'ethnic cleansing' in the Balkans occurred after the NATO
>invasion and was, as predicted before their invasion, caused largely by
>it.
I'm glad to see that after such a shocking and savage incident of mass
murder, genocidal apologists like you still feel capable of making
your voices known.
The Acolytes of the Great Prophet Carr
<pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>> No. Do you think blood for blood is morally acceptable?
>>
>No, do you? Do you protest loudly in this group when all those civilians
>were killed by US weapons??
Did you protest loudly in this group when all those civilians were
killed by terrorist weapons? Of course not. Americans are excluded
from your xenophobic boundaries of legitimate victimhood.
The Acolytes of the Great Prophet Carr
<pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>I hope that you had a similar disgust at the attacks on civilians by
>NATO in the Balkans - to mention just one recent similar atrocity.
Welcome to Trotworld, where everything is America's fault, and nobody
else has the gift of free will, intention or individual moral
responsibility. You could always look out the window and see the real
world, but I suppose that must scare you.
Sam
"Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote in message
news:9nmk3n$rsk$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>
> SW <s...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:qfAn7.4907$tL2.4...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
> >
> >
> > If it wasn't for the US, you and the rest of your countrymen would be
> > speaking German and giving stiff-arm salutes, you simplistic twit.
> >
> So you believe that the ends justify the means. So the firebombing of
> thousands of civilians in Dresden was perfectly OK to reduce Nazi
> terrorism - but suddenly a killing of civilians in New York to reduce US
> terrorism is wrong? Either you believe in killing civilians for a cause
> (US way of life/End of US terrorism) or you don't. You can't have it
> both ways.
>
The justification for the Balkans/Iraq etc is that the targets were
legitimate military targets and the intention was to minimise civilian
casualties. So far, I have not seen anyone distinguish between the
attack on the WTC and the attack on the Pentagon. The Pentagon
could be described as a legitimate military target by those that
consider the USA to be their enemy. No such justification can be
offered for the attack on the WTC.
--
Samson
E. Barry Bruyea
<pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>
>Niall <s...@milkyway.org> wrote in message
>news:3b9ead67...@news1.ns.sympatico.ca...
>>
>>
>> I notice you put "democracy" in quotation marks. Well Peter, I
>> live in a democracy without quotation marks. And I believe that my
>> government and its American allies are justified in acting reasonably
>> to defend our way of life from the sort of people who crash airliners
>> into tall buildings.
>>
>I see, so the murder of 500,000 children to keep your petrol cheap is an
>acceptable cost to you. Then surely you can see how the rest of the
>world would see that a few thousand Americans would be an acceptable
>cost (using the American view) not just to maintain their 'way of life'
>but to maintain their life.
Funny how quickly it is forgotten those children unfortunetly are
dying as a direct result of their leader's insanity and decision to
got to war and refusal to meet the agreements that ended that war.
None of those children had to die in the post war period: Saddam made
that decision, not the coalition, the Americans or anyone else
involved in the Gulf War Conflict.
Sam
"Tony Cooper" <tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3B9EE943...@yahoo.com...
Who mentioned Dresden ?
It was not the only example of firebombing in Germany
- just the most notorious.
The USAF dropped lots of bombs on Germany cities in WWII.
I'm surprised you didn't know that.
--
Samson
Mungbean
venom. You have mentioned both WW1 & WW2 ...what does the 2nd W stand
for. During both wars people had shelters, they had warnings etc....
these people had what ?
Your argument leads me to believe that you condone the behaviours of
these nations that have required outside intervention. To suggest that
their internal actions are warranted is rather shallow. I remember a
certain Middle Eastern leader trialing a nerve gas on his own devote
followers.
I hope you can get over yourself soon Peter, your anger has slanted your
view, you appear to have some intelligence so I rather surprise at your
impotence re this whole discussion. You have attacked and have yet
offered zero alternatives to some of these problems ...but as I said you
have adopted a view of condoning the actions of these troubles areas.
--
"Suicidal Twin Kills Sister By Mistake!"
Joanna Prescott
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Peter H.M. Brooks bombed out saying:
>
>> Would it be justified - as the Americans tried to justify the
>> firebombing of civilians in German cities during WWII - if this bombing
>> reduced the amount of terrorism exported by the US?
>
>Err, Peter, it was the British that firebombed Dresden and
>Hamburg.
>The British are from the United Kingdom, wear different
>uniforms than the U.S., and have a completely different
>flag. (At least, since 1776) I know you have a warped view
>of things, but there are enough clues for even you to figure
>out the difference between the U.S. and the U.K.
This is from a site aimed at school children so I hope you can
understand it.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWstrategic.htm
By the end of 1944 the Allies had obtained complete air supremacy over
Germany and could destroy targets at will. On 3rd February, 1,000
bombers of the United States Army Air Force killed an estimated 25,000
people in Berlin.
Arthur Harris now devised Operation Thunderclap, an air raid that
would finally break the morale of the German people. To enable maximum
impact to take place Harris chose Dresden as his target. This medieval
city had not been attacked during the war and was virtually undefended
by anti-aircraft guns. On 13th February 1945, 773 Avro Lancaster
bombers attacked Dresden. During the next two days the USAAF sent 527
heavy bombers to follow up the RAF attack. The resulting firestorm
killed around 135,000 people.
>
>We are the ones that dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and
>Nagasaki. If you wish to chastize us, at least do it
>properly.
Fait accompli
Joanna
Joanna Prescott
"It became the world's largest commercial complex, housing by some
estimates about 1,200 companies, other businesses, government agencies
and international trade organisations. "
What government agencies?
That aside, a capitalist HQ might be seen as a justifiable target by
some fundamentalist groups.
That isn't to excuse it, or to excuse US/UK bombings. Hmm..at least
this lot didn't hit the Chinese Embassy.
Joanna
Joanna Prescott
<pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>
>China Kate Sunflower <norac...@stealthisspamblocker.celticweb.com>
>wrote in message news:9nlls...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> You are a soulless, inhuman monster and I hope every misery in the
>world
>> heaps itself upon you.
>>
>So, what do you call Madeleine Albright who, on considering the US
>murder of 500,000 children declared that it was 'a price worth paying'?
Peter, you're banging your head against a thick, brick wall. The
difference is that those 500,000 children were 'foreign'. Humanity
seems to stop at the US borders, at least it does for many who post
here and simply cannot understand what you said.
Joanna
Joanna Prescott
Try this one for size.
http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/Iraq.asp
Or this which is about sanctions, not the additional deaths from
bombing:
The following facts are provided by the leading organizations in
charge of monitoring humanitarian and welfare conditions in the world.
Mortality for children under 5 has increased by 40,000 deaths yearly
due to diarrhea, pneumonia, and malnutrition. (UNICEF April 1998)
Over 5 yrs. old the increase has risen 50,000 deaths yearly associated
with heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, cancer, and liver or
kidney diseases. (UNICEF April 1998)
Approximately 250 people die every day directly due to the effect of
sanctions. (UNICEF April 1998)
32% of children under 5 -- 960,000 -- are chronically malnourished, up
72% since 1991. (UNICEF, Nov. 1997)
Since the onset of sanctions there has been a sixfold increase in the
mortality rate for children under 5 and the majority of the country's
population has been on a semi-starvation diet. (WHO March, 1996)
>PS - You're still a dipshit.
Hmm.... " when I said feed the poor, they called me a communist" -
Dom Helder Camera.
"when I told the truth, they called me a dipshit" - PHMB
And then they're surprised when what goes around comes around...
Joanna
Ed Hillan
Local government, I think. The Mayor's emergency control centre was
supposed to be in one of the towers.
> That aside, a capitalist HQ might be seen as a justifiable target by
> some fundamentalist groups.
>
> That isn't to excuse it, or to excuse US/UK bombings. Hmm..at least
> this lot didn't hit the Chinese Embassy.
Ed
MP
> > That's an oxymoron . Chaos caused by democracy.
> >
> I see. So the chaos in the Balkans caused by NATO invasions (all
> members being democracies) is an illusion and the thousands of innocent
> civilians killed by Nato are not really dead but just sleeping?
And what was your solution to the Balkan crisis, oh wise one?
Joanna Prescott
>On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:45:00 +0200, "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Dennis G. <deg...@telus.net> wrote in message
>>news:3b9eb978...@news.telus.net...
>>> "Peter H.M. Brooks" <pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>>>
>>> >But this 'chaos' today has been caused directly by 'democracy' and
>>> >'making the world safe for democracy' - as the orwellian phrases for
>>> >attacking non-subservient states has it.
>
>
>.za address! -- You're a nigger, aren't you...Probably pissed at the US for
>not caving in on giving "shame on you money" to the descendants of our
>house niggers.
Does there always have to be a subjective reason for having a
viewpoint? Isn't it just possible that some people can read, learn,
understand and formulate an objective opinion?
No, it wouldn't do, would it. You'd have to learn to debate properly.
Joanna
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, "Peter's motto is:
>I see. So the chaos in the Balkans caused by NATO invasions (all
>members being democracies) is an illusion and the thousands of innocent
>civilians killed by Nato are not really dead but just sleeping?
Out of curiosity, how would you classify what was going on in the Balkans
*before* NATO stuck it's note in?
K.
--
"Boche had known a joiner who had stripped himself stark naked in the Rue Saint-
Martin and died doing the polka - he was an absinthe drinker." -- Emile Zola
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, "Peter's motto is:
>
>
>wrote in message news:9nm5p...@drn.newsguy.com...
>>
>> I stand by my hope that your live will be visited by suffering and
>grief beyond
>> human understanding, and that when it does you think back on what you
>have said
>> today and know you brought it upon your own head.
>>
>I am pleased that you have some concept of the upset that led these
>people to take retribution gainst US terrorism - and how the US brought
>it upon itself by its own actions.
The difference: I wish you personally great pain because of the great pain that
you personally have caused. The individuals burned alive and crushed to death
yesterday did not personally cause anyone's death (that I'm aware of, certainly
not en masse) and thus did not deserve the fate that befell them.
Either you think massacre of civilians is OK, or you don't. If you don't think
its OK in the Middle East, then you can't think its OK here. Likewise, if you
think that massacre of civilians is occasionally justified, then why do you
justify one massacre and not others? What are your criteria for condemnation
and outrage?
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, "Peter's motto is:
>
>
>China Kate Sunflower <norac...@stealthisspamblocker.celticweb.com>
>>
>> >>
>> >Were the civilians bombed in Baghdad, Serbia, Kosovo, Vietnam etc.
>etc
>> >.etc. the ones responsible?
>>
>>
>No, do you?
Certainly not civilian blood, that's for sure.
>Do you protest loudly in this group when all those civilians
>were killed by US weapons??
"This group" is soc.culture.irish and no, I didn't protest here because it
wasn't a topic of conversation. Furthermore, a great number of "all those
civilians" were killed before I was born, so no I didn't protest then either.
I did protest during the Gulf "War". Yugoslavia is a horse of a different
color, and I'm still not certain how I feel about that, so I can't give you a
glib soundbite right now.
I still think you're filth, however.
gregory....@ntlworld.com
China Kate Sunflower wrote:
>
> Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like? Their walls are built on
> cannonballs, "Peter's motto is:
>
> >I see. So the chaos in the Balkans caused by NATO invasions (all
> >members being democracies) is an illusion and the thousands of innocent
> >civilians killed by Nato are not really dead but just sleeping?
>
> Out of curiosity, how would you classify what was going on in the Balkans
> *before* NATO stuck it's note in?
>
> K.
Deeply unfortunate.
--
Respectfully submitted
Gregory
gregory....@ntlworld.com
China Kate Sunflower wrote:
>
> Either you think massacre of civilians is OK, or you don't. If you don't think
> its OK in the Middle East, then you can't think its OK here. Likewise, if you
> think that massacre of civilians is occasionally justified, then why do you
> justify one massacre and not others? What are your criteria for condemnation
> and outrage?
>
> K.
If something is utterly wrong, it has to be wrong always. It can't be
okay on a Tuesday or if the victims have slanted eyes or funny accents.
It is the same rules for those in the jungle or the deserts of this
planet and for those in Manhattan or Pittsburgh. A monstrous act is
always consistently monstrous without regard to it's intrinsic geography
or it's current or indigenous culture. That is why they are called
'Human Rights' because they are guaranteed by other human beings.
--
Respectfully submitted
Gregory