FW: The Alexander Movie: How are Iranians and Greeks portrayed? by Dr. Kaveh Farrokh
Sam Ghandchi
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IranscopeNews/message/4639
peace2004
Regards
Perspolis
bessiar aali bood.
Nima
Pacifist
news:A6Cdnekeo6j...@giganews.com
Man, this is a long article and I have a terrible flu.
What is the bottom line? Did we win at Guagamela and Susa and the
dastardly Hollywood filmmakers are saying we lost?
P
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Sam Ghandchi
sirknight67
and do not plan to see it because from what I heard form my second
cousin, it is silly and at times offensive. I don't need to be asked
to leave by the usher, and the usher doesn't need to get his jaw wired
;-)
1) about the Nordicism of ancient Greeks. There are many
antrhopologists, including two that I can think of right now including
Carlton Coon and Ripley who refuted the myth of Greek Nordicism. In
fact, according to anthropologists like Fisher who was famous for his
study of pigmentation among european and west Asian and NOrth African
populations, the Greeks only have 4% LIGHT HAIR!!!
96% of Greeks have black or dark brown hair and the skin is generally
dar.
Some may remember a would be presidential candidate years ago, named
Dukakis. He was the typical Greek: Dark, short, big nosed with curly
or wavy black hair.
The depiction of characters such as Alexander and Jesus in Hollywood
as blonde and blue eyes merely reflects the obsession that America has
with blond hair. In no country I have visited in my life have I seen
such a high rate of fake blonds and pathetically cheesy bleached
blondes as in America. The obession wtih blond hair also comes from a
deeply inbeded racism that cannot fathom the "hero" of the story that
the Americans claim from a eurocentric view as one "of their own" to
look different, especially like the very people they are made to
despise in the movie, the villains so to speak.
Charlton Heston was made to play Moses, Willem Dafoe Jesus of Nazareth
and now this fucking Iraish Mic with his cheesy Irish accent and his
bleached blond hair, not even his own!!!
According to various anthropological data I have collected over the
years (for those of you itnerested I have an extensive bibliography),
the Greeks are not nor have they ever been "Nordic". The prehistoric
inhabitants of the islands were Capoid, meaning they were related to
the Bushmen of south Africa and in fact much of southern Europe was
once inhabited by Bushmen.
When the first agriculturalists arrived from western Asia or the
"Middle East" as Americans call teh region about 9,000 years ago, they
encoutered this hunter-gatherer population. By the time Crete was
settled and the first art work appeared there around 5,000-7,000 years
ago, there were still Bushmen tehre, as there were in nearby Egypt.
The earliest inhabitants of Greece were of the so-called
"Mediterranean" type also called Ibero-Insular by Denniker. This type
originated in western Asia and spread with the Neolithic revolution
throughout much of southern Europe as well as teh British Isles. The
height was generally short to medium, the hair black and curly or
wavy, the eyes dark and the skin tawny,like the modern Greeks,
southern Italians, southern French, Portuguese etc...and
dolichocephalic, meaning long headed or long skulled.
Around the time of the Bronze Age (which occured later in Europe than
it did in Asia), around 4,000 years ago, a new type entered Greece
from the east again, and this type is called Armenoid/Dinaric. It is
strongly present among northern Iranians, the people of the Caucasus,
Syrians, Yugoslavs and Austrians. It is generally taller than average,
round headed (bracycehpalic), fair skinned with black hair and usually
dark or mixed eyes. This type established itself in the Dinaric Alps
and eventually spread the culture of the "bell beakers" in northern
Europe.
When the INdo-Europeans entered Greece around 4,000+ years ago, they
were already very mixed racially. Most of Greece was until then long
headed and of the Mediterranean type. Anthropologist and archeologists
have noticed that the bracycephalic people (broad skulls) entered
Greece mostly at the time the Indo-Europeans entered the region. This
is odd because the Nordic race usually associated wtih Indo-European
natives is tall and LONG headed or mesocehalic.
The first blondes do appear on paintings in Crete around 3,600 which
means that the first Indo-Europeans who came and replaced the native
"Pelasgians" arrived around that time.
Most of the ancient Greek statues however depict a predominatnly broad
skulled people, suggesting that this was an "ideal" type associated
with the newcomers or teh ruling class.
When the ROman historians like Pliny, Tacitus and Amminianus made
notes on the physical appearance of foreigners and non-ROmans in their
known world, they noted the Germans, Celts and Iranian Sarmatians as
tall, robust, blond or red haired and muscular. This was the original
Indo-European type. Such comments were NEVER made about Greeks.
In fact, one merely has to look at the so-called "Alexander Mosaic"
and its replica, such as the one found at Pompei, to see that
Alexander was in fact very Mediterranean in appearance: He had black
hair (not even brown), a large fleshy nose like modern Greeks and
Turks, and a very thin, longish face, typical of mediterranean people
and not Nordic at all. His skin was copper or tanwy and not pinkish
like Nordicss and it was claimed that his height was a mere 5'2", a
far cry from the Nordic 6" which Darius the Great of Persia however
(not Dariush III who fought Alexander) approximated more.
2)Alexander was a MACEDONIAN, not a Greek. What is a Macedonian? In
ancient terms, Macedonians were similar to modern Swiss, they were a
collection of people that included a small minority of Greeks whose
upper class was admited at the Greek games (known to us as the
Olympics). The majority of the population however was not Greek. There
were Illyrians, related in language to the people of Albania (this
INdo-European speech once spread as far north as modern Slovenia and
northeast Italy) and Thrakians whose only modern relatives in speech
today are Armenians.
3) This was NEVER a fight between Greeks and Persians. Alexander's
army contained about 25% Greeks from mainland Greece. Many of his
troops were non Greeks including the famous Agrianes, who were
Thrakians and acted as "Peltasts" or light armed javelin throwers, as
well as Illyrian cavalrymen.
In fact, there were MORE GREEKS SERVING IN THE PERSIAN ARMY as there
were Greeks serving with Alexander.
After the first engagment at the Granicus River, most of the infantry
serving in the army of the Persians were Greeks, led by a Greek
general named Memnon. After teh Persian cavalry retreated, these heavy
infantry Hoplites were left isolated on a hill and received no
quarter. There were about 8,000 of them and they were surrounded and
killed almost to a man. 2,000 survivors were chained and sold as
slaves because they were considered traitors to the "Greek cause".
It is interesting however that many Greek states wthat had not been
reduced to servitued by ALexander, such as Laconia (meaning Sparta and
the region surrounding it) did not join in this so-called "Greek
cause".
In fact, when Alexander marched towards the Levant, many of his
garrisons were attacked in Greece.
There may have been some 60,000 Greek mercenary troops in the Persian
army of Dariush as a whole. Alexander had a total of 45-50,000 troops,
including over half that were not even Greek but Illyrian and
Thrakian.
Greek troops that were captured were in most instances savagely
treated and thousands wer chained and sold as slaves, like Memnon's
men and were shown no pity,not even to their famillies.
4)As far as the role of Roxanne being filled by a Negroid, I find that
completely absurd. As it has often been pointed out, the original
Persians and Medes who settled Iran before mixing with the darker
skinned natives who are now mixed in the general Iranian population,
were an Indo-European, blond or red haired people. There are sections
of wall paintings from Shush now in the Louvres, of which I have
eprsonal photographs, that depict many Iranian warriors with blond or
light hair, with green or blue eyes. Many Iranians in the northern
provinces of Gilan, Azarbaijan and Kermanshah have that appearnce even
today, including myself as a child and my familly members who all hail
frmo that region. This doesn't mean that all those serving in the
earmy fit that profile, for there were in addition, many
Dravidian/Australoid people serving in the army as well, also as
evidence in the wall paintings of Shush and by Herodotus' depiction of
the so-called "Asiatic Ethiopians" or "straight haired ethiopians"
from what is now the southeastern Iranian province of Balutchestan,
where Australoid-like people still live there.
5) As for the attitude of Alexander towards Iranians, the historian
john Warry emphasized the trouble that Alexander got into when showing
himselg too sympathetic to Iranians. It is a fact that by the time
Alexander reached Soghdiana (the Iranian speaking land that now lies
in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan), about 40% of his army was made up of
Iranians. Roman Girshman also spoke of this fusion of races, which was
Alexander's wish, not the eurocentric neo-colonialism that the
Europeans have projected onto this whole sorry depiction and
distorition of history.
Alexander dressed Persian, used Persian court styles and ways, and
even had an all Persian bodyguard unit. He made at least 1,000 of his
officers marry Persian and other Iranian noble women, and drilled
Persian men and soldiers in the Macedonian art of war, including the
phalanx.For this he was despised by his men and friends, which might
be the reason for his killing of Parmenio and later Craterus. He was
basically taken with Persian culture and civilization, and drawn away
from the ruffian Macedonians who were probably far more ethnocentrist
than he and wanted to rule the Persians, not fuse wtih them and become
their brothers.
Alexander dreamed of conquering the world but not of subjugating the
different peoples but of fusing them. UNfortunately that was not the
case with many of our own Persian Kings who were not all like Kourosh
the Great or Dariush the Great.
6) the burning of Persepolis is ommited, as is the massacre of the
entire population of Tyre (8,000) and Gaza. Likewise, his near defeats
in Lorestan and his army's slaughter by a descendant of
Zartosht/Zarathushtra/Zoroaster, named espantaman in What is now
Tajikistan is ommited, no doubt from fear of messing with the
eurocentrist view of European supremacy, never mind that the Iranians
scored a dozen victories over the Greeks, from Ephesus to Sardis, to
Lade Gulf to Kalystos and Eretrea, Lindos, Chios etc...and later,
slaughtered the Romans wholesale, the same Romans that are presented
in eurocentrist eyes as the most advanced nation on Earth in their
day, and the strongest militarily. In Fact Persians frequently routed
Roman armies more than three times stronger and took many territories
from them...but that again is the censorship of Eurocentrism which
will always prevail in Holywood.
7) Lastly, the widly exagerated numbers by the lying sacks of shit
like Herodotus, Arrian, Curtius etc...merely reflects that the Greeks
are either insane, can't count worth of shit and suck at math or are
total liars. For Gaugamella, the lunatic Arrian mentioned that 300,000
Persians were killed and only 100 of Alexander's soldiers were killed.
These are the same Greek madmen what claim that 20,000 Persian
soliders were killed at Thermopylae and 6400 at Marathon when in
reality it was 2,000 + at Thermopylae (and many more Greeks) and
around 2,000 at Marathon, including probably around 500 on the
battlefield. The Greeks themselves lost around 1,000 men, not the 192
claimed.
According to Warry, there were 91,000 men accounted for on the Persian
side at Gaugamella, and around 47,000 on Alexander's side, not the
ridiculous figure of 1,000,000 by that madman Greek buttfucker Arrian,
nor the Hollywood figure of 300,000. In fact, later historians
including military governors have dismissed these figures on the
grounds of logistical issues such as feeding teh army and the animals
(Cuyler-Young).
At Gaugamella, around 30,000 Persians were lost (meaning that the
Greeks exagerated figures by a factor of ten) and the Macedonians at
least 1,000.
8) I laughed at the desire of the Greeks to "sue" Oliver Stone when in
fact all their ancestors where a bunch of skin flute playing butt
pirates and had the habit of "binding" each other's penises togther as
a sign of homo-eroticism. In fact, one of the reasons the Spartan army
was so efficient was that all the men of the Phalanx were placed next
to their lovers. Greeks were a bunch of degenerate buttfuckers of
their own Phalax, not to mention liars and distorters of facts which
the eurocentrists have been more than eager to accept as "fact".
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From: manuvera@a...
Date: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:07 pm
Subject: The Alexander Movie: How are Iranians and Greeks portrayed?
ADVERTISEMENT
Hollywood has just released one of the latest of its epic
blockbusters: Alexander the Great. Directed by distinguished director
Oliver Stone, the movie endeavours to recreate the events of the
Hellenic conquests and the downfall of the first Persian Achaemenid
Empire. It is important to note however, that simply because a movie
is high budget, casts high profile Hollywood actors and is directed by
top ranking directors, does not make it flawless.
Beyond the entertainment value of Oliver Stone's latest project, a
number of serious errors do exist in the movie, many which may appear
trivial. These "trivial" errors will nevertheless be of consequence to
both Iranians and Greeks.
Ironically, it has been my Greek friends and colleagues who bought the
flaws of Oliver Stone's "Alexander" picture to my attention. There are
a total of five overall errors that will be listed and discussed
below:
(1) The Battle of Gaugamela:
Oliver Stone has relied on Professor Robin Lane Fox, one of the
world's foremost experts in the area of Alexander and Hellenic
Studies. His book is a standard reference text in the area of
Alexandrian Studies:
R.L. Fox. Alexander the Great. London: Penguin, 1986 and 1994.
ISBN: 0140088784
Despite excellent reviews of his book by critics and scholars, Dr. Fox
does not understand the military of ancient Persia. A typographical
shot of the battle of Gaugamela, shows the Greeks advancing in ordered
and disciplined ranks. In contrast, the armies of Darius III are shown
as little better than an amorphous mob. This is a false image of the
Achaemenid army. The Achaemenids used drums and musical instruments to
direct the marching tactics of their troops in battle. Second, the
Achaemeneans used the decimal system, which was in fact, unknown to
the Greeks of the period. Persian units were formed in legions of 10,
100 or 1000 or 10,000. A typical term was "Hezar-Patesh" (roughly
equivalent to "leader of a thousand men").
In addition, the Persians had developed a sophisticated system of
heraldry and their troops wore standard uniforms. The Greeks were
certainly excellent fighters and were thoroughly organized, but this
does not mean that the Persians were not. At the time, the Greeks were
militarily superior with respect to armaments, tactics and military
training.
This military imbalance changed with the coming of the Parthian and
Sassanian cavalry. The Iranian Savaran (elite Cavalry) successfully
halted and defeated many of the later Greek-Hoplite inspired Roman
armies. Many Romans attempted to imitate Alexander and failed against
Persia. These include Marcus Lucinius Crassus at Carrhae, Marc Antony
at Tabriz (where he failed twice), Gordian III at Mesiche, Phillip the
Arab near modern Syria, Valerian at Barbablissos, and Julian the
Apostate in Mesopotamia. I personally doubt that Hollywood will
recreate these spectacular Roman defeats as these will challenge
contemporary western notions of the Alexandrian legacy. In addition,
many Iranians today are unaware of the proud legacy of the Parthian
and Sassanian Savaran.
Professor Fox's elementary grasp of Iranian militaria should not
inspire much confidence with respect to accurate portrayals of
Iranians in general. You may wish to read the following books by
Professors Sekunda and Head who are experts on the uniforms, dress and
equipment of the ancient Greeks and Achaemenid Persians.
N. Sekunda. The Persian Army: 560-330 BC. England. Osprey Men at Arms
Elite Series, 1992.
ISBN: 1855322501
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=P2501
D. Head. The Achaemenid Persian Army. England: Montvert Publications,
1992.
ISBN: 1874101000
There are many errors with the uniforms portrayed as "Persian". As you
will see in these books, the colors and materials of Achaemenid
Persians were invariably bright with a mix of shades of purple,
Saffron, red dyes, shades of blue and green, mixed with darker browns
(almost Burgundy) and black. These fashions and regalia were
resuscitated during the Sassanian dynasty (226-651 AD). Only the
Persian archers (and a few guards) are shown with some accuracy; the
same cannot be said with respect to the other "Persians" of the movie
set.
More puzzling is the "Arabesque" way in which ancient Persians are
portrayed in this battle. I was shocked to see Arabian camel riders
used to portray one of the vanguards of Darius III's attack on
Alexander at the battle scene. Arabs were simply auxiliary units in
the Achaemenean army at the time, and were not a major factor. Camel
troops were never a major battle order in the armies of Persia. I also
noticed that an infantry troop of the Achaemenid advance guard was
speaking in Arabic. Persian is not related to Arabic; it is an
Indo-European language akin to the languages of Europe and India.
This may be the usual Hollywood habit however of portraying Iranians
as Arabs, a topic we will re-visit later in this commentary.
(2) Confusing Persia with Babylon
It is very interesting that Professor Fox does not refer to the
Achaemenid capitals in Susa, Maracanda (Samarqand), Media or
Persopolis. The destruction of Persopolis by Alexander is a major
event - instead the movie shows Alexander entering the city of
Babylon, implying that this was the administrative capital of Persia.
Babylon was simply another satrapy of the empire; not its capital.
Babylon had already been incorporated into the Persian Empire in 539
BC by Cyrus the Great (559-530 BC). Why is Persopolis and its
destruction not mentioned? There was also the destruction of the three
major Zoroastrian texts by Alexander - also not referred to in the
movie.
A possible reason for this may be found in Professor Fox's.interview
with the distinguished journal "Archeology Today" (Riding with
Alexander) (enter link below into your internet browser):
http://www.archaeology.org/online/interviews/fox.html
Note the statement below, and how indicative it is of Professor Fox's
lack of understanding of Classical Achaemenid Persia:
"We all understood that the separate "parts" of Oliver's drama must be
"color-coded" and … which could not totally depart from audiences'
expectations of Greek or Babylonian imagery"
Note the statement "Greek or Babylonian imagery". This statement
implies that Persia had no real arts worth mentioning, and that Persia
is simply an extension of Babylon or at best interchangeable.
As noted previously, Babylon was not a major power at the time of
Alexander. Persian arts and architecture were an eclectic synthesis of
indigenous (e.g Median, Elamite), Lydian, and Mesopotamian styles,
including Babylonian. The city-palace of Persopolis is very distinct
and cannot be be crudely termed as Babylonian. It is, to put it
mildly, shocking, that the treatment of Persian studies is addressed
at such a shallow level by Professor Fox.
An important point must be made, especially with respect to the reason
why Alexander was so violent in his conquest of Persia. The Greeks
were simply taking revenge for the earlier invasion of their country
by Darius the Great and his son Xerxes. The Greeks paid a heavy price
for their battles at Marathon (490 BC), Thermopylae (17th September,
490 BC), Athens (27th September, 490 BC), Salamis (29th September, 490
BC), and Plataea (479 BC). It is significant that when Xerxes burned
Athens, he ordered the sacred statues of the Greek gods to be removed
and brought to Persia. The Greeks revered their gods and this Persian
act was a national insult to them. Most contemporary Iranians are not
aware of these facts. This certainly is not an excuse for what
happened at Alexander's time, but it does help put these events in
perspective.
Although many Iranians demonize Alexander, the man did come to develop
a great deal of respect for Persia. The more Alexander stayed in
Persia, the more "Persian" he became, in manners and in dress.
Alexander paid his respects at the tomb of Cyrus the Great and indeed
saw himself as the heir of Cyrus. The Greeks so admired Cyrus the
Great, that they saw his manner of government as a model. You may wish
to read the Greek "Cyropedia". If Aristotle made racist statements
about the Persians (and this is shown in the movie), it must also be
made clear that many Greeks also praised the Persians (see Xenophon or
Plutarch in his discussion of the Parthian general Surena). A very
positive aspect of the Alexander movie is that Alexander praises the
"east" for its architecture and civilization. It is possible that
Alexander was poisoned by some of his officers for becoming too
"Persian".
(3) The Blondism of Alexander
A very serious concern of the Alexander movie is the promotion of the
idea of the "Nordicism" of ancient Greece. Put simply, this is the
thesis that ancient Greeks were not only predominantly blonde, but
"Nordic", in the manner of present-day Scandinavians and Northern
Germans.
Nordicists have long argued, since the late 1700s, that the people of
ancient and modern Greece are unrelated. Nordicism argues that the
"ancient" Greeks were the "true" Greeks in contrast to the non-Nordic
people of Greece today. This view is exemplified by the Austrian
Hellenicist, Professor Fallmerayer, in the 1830s, who noted that "not
a drop of pure Greek blood runs in the veins of modern Greeks…" To
this day, Fallmerayer is recalled with bitterness and derision in
Greece. It is worth noting that Fallmerayer never set foot in Greece
in his entire lifetime. For further discussion on these issues you may
wish to read:
Felipe Fernandez-Armesto's "Guide to Peoples of Europe", especially
pages 207-216.
Published in London by Times Books in 1994.
ISBN: 0-7320-0624-5
Fallmerayer's analysis of Greece is not entirely correct. While true
that the Ottoman Turks ruled Greece for 400 years and that previous
Byzantine rulers (e.g. Emperor Nikopherous) had to import colonists
from present day south Italy to help repopulate parts of Greece
ravaged by wars, many of these "Italian" colonists were themselves
ancient Greek, settled in regions such as Calabria and Southern France
since the times of Darius the Great and earlier. In any event, there
has always been a strong and predominant Greek element in areas such
as the Peloponnesos.
As for the lack of mainstream Nordiscism in modern Greece, this has to
do with the history of ancient Greece itself. Mainland Greece was
already settled with indigenous Mediterranean peoples, such as the
ancient Minoans, before the arrival of the Classical Greeks. Ancient
Greece, like today, was a mixture of Mediterranean and "blonde"
peoples.
This leads to a very crucial question: why have no Greek actors been
selected to portray classical Greeks such as Alexander, Hephaestion,
Ptolemy I, Olympias, King Phillip II, Cassander or Antiginous? For a
review of the cast, click on the following links (enter links below
into your internet browser):
http://www.alexander-the-great.co.uk/
http://www.lilianagimenez.com/artisti-ospiti/raz.jpg - Israeli actor,
Raz Degan who portrays Darius III.
If one were to use Classical Greek works of art (vases and statues
specifically) as a standard for prototypical Greek physical
appearance, one can then easily find a plethora of modern Greek actors
and actresses today who can portray ancient Greeks. It is interesting
as to why Oliver Stone did not select Hollywood actors of Greek
descent or from mainland Greece.
Oliver Stone goes further however. Colin Farrell, a dark haired Irish
actor, who plays Alexander, is portrayed literally, as a bleached
blonde. The notion of Alexander being Flaxen-haired or blonde is
itself a matter of considerable doubt if not strong dispute. As noted
by my friend George Tsonis, a Greek-Canadian and a scholar of Greek,
Roman and Persian history, the Greek word for Alexander's complexion
is "Xanthenein" (fair). This description simply marks Alexander's
complexion as being fairer than the other Greeks of his time. Yes, he
was relatively fair, but not necessarily flaxen-blonde in the
Nordicist sense. From the Tufts University Lexicon "Xanthenein" is
roughly translated as fair or a yellowish-brown color. A related term,
"Xanthizo", can also be to "make yellow" or "brown". No wonder there
is confusion!
Plutarch, whom most western scholars rely on for their references,
does not actually describe Alexander's hair color, only his
complexion. This is a quote from Aelian on the hair; below is the
Anglisized Greek from Cyrillic and the English translation below that:
"Alexandron de ton Filippou apragmonos oraion legousi genesthai' tin
men gar komin anasesyrthai afto, xanthin de einai'"
"Alexander the son of Philip is reported to have possessed a natural
beauty: his hair was wavy and fair"
Varia Historae, 12.14
To see the debates raging about Alexander's true appearance see the
following discussion panel (enter link below into your internet
browser):
http://www.pothos.org/forum/showmessage.asp?messageID=16281
A very non-Nordic portrayal of Alexander is evident in the Pompei
Mosaic. It is agreed by a majority of scholars that the painting is a
faithful rendition of an original Hellenistic painting of the 3rd
century BC. As you will witness in the painting below, this
Hellenic-Roman version of Alexander is very different from the
contemporary Hollywood fantasy interpretation (see photo below):
As you see in the photo, this is a very different Alexander than what
many western scholars and Hollywood would have us believe.
This painting appears to refutes the notion of Alexander being blonde.
Nevertheless, a number of western scholars remain determined to push
forward an image of Alexander that may be false. There are scholars
who are actually convinced that the Pompei mosaic is proof of
Alexander's Nordic blondeness! Even in allowing for poor
reproductions, the mosaic clearly shows a 'brown' haired person with a
Mediterranean or modern Iranian profile. Many Greek and Iranian people
today have auburn-brown hair, which can appear to be somewhat "blonde"
in sunlight.
The point from the Greek perspective however, is not simply whether
Alexander was blonde or not. After all, the Dorian Greeks were blonde
as a rule, just as the original Persians and Mede settlers of ancient
Iran were as well. The issue is that of using the notion of blondeness
to project a specifically non-Greek Nordic west European image.
Irrespective of whether Alexander was blonde or not, he represented
the culture of ancient Greece, which is not necessarily the same as
that of modern Western Europe.
Ancient Greece and Rome, as we will note again further below, were
Mediterranean empires, very different from the inhabitants of interior
and northern Europe. The peoples of western and eastern Europe were
very different from the Classical Greeks in culture, language and
temperament. To obtain an introduction to the history of the northern
Europeans, you may wish to read:
D. Rankin. Celts and the Classical World. London: Routledge, 1996.
ISBN: 0-415-15090-6
A. Ferrill. The Fall of the Roman Empire: The Military Explanation.
Thames & Hudson, 1986.
ISBN: 0500274959
The "Europeans" adopted a great deal of their civilization and
identity from the Greeks and the Romans. Even the name "Europe" is
derived from the ancient Greek term "Oropia". It may not be an
exaggeration to state the following: with their adoption of
Greco-Roman culture, west European scholars in particular, have
essentially affected a "Nordic makeover" of the ancient Greeks and
Romans. As Western culture has adopted the mantle of ancient Greece,
it has also adopted Alexander as its own son; to the point that
Alexander and ancient Greece are viewed as identical with ancient
Western Europe and Scandinavia.
The Nordicising of favourite historical figures does not end with
Alexander. Jesus Christ, is frequently portrayed as a slightly built,
tall blonde Nordic man. Jesus or Jeshua, was a Jew from West Asia who
spoke Aramaic. It is now acknowledged by a number of researchers that
much of what we accept as the "appearance" of Jesus is not altogether
accurate. Jesus would most likely have resembled a modern Fertile
Crescent Arab or Jew from places such as Jerusalem, Amman, Hebron,
Damascus or Basra. Scientists have recently reconstructed the image of
Christ as he would have most likely appeared in his lifetime in
ancient Palestine and Judea (see photo below):
The reconstruction that you witnessed in the attachment is very
different from the icons we are used to seeing in the churches and
Christian arts of Northwestern Europe. How many images have you seen
in North American or Western European churches that show the Aramaic
Christ? It would seen that, like Alexander, the "real image" of Jesus
has shifted in accordance with politics, ideology, dogma and popular
culture over the centuries. Interestingly, many cultures across the
world today interpret Jesus' physical appearance in accordance with
their own anthropomorphic image (enter link below into your internet
browser):
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/jesus/photo/photo.html
It appears that Hollywood has successfully associated a certain
physical appearance with modernity, progress, success and rationalism.
By implication, that which is not of that "certain look" is in danger
of being associated with all that is the antithesis of that. With this
logic, historical reality is bent to fit a manufactured reality: a
fantasy.
(4) Greek or Macedonian?
This movie contains a number of concerns to Greeks in particular, such
as Macedonia being "different" from the rest of Greece, a very
contested issue in the Balkans these days. Although not generally
reported, the government of Greece, which had originally supported the
Alexander picture, withdrew its funding and support for Oliver Stone's
project (enter link below into your internet browser):
http://www.hri.org/news/greek/ana/1998/98-11-17.ana.html#19
There was to have been co-operation between Stone and the Greek
government, but this was apparently changed when the details of the
script became known (see also (4) below).
To be honest, I was left confused as to whether the Macedonians were
Greek or not. This may be an attempt to placate those who view
Macedonia as "different" from Greece, not unlike those who try to
argue that Kurds and Azerbaijanis are not Iranians. The Greeks, like
the Iranians today, are now confronted with having to defend their
historical heritage against those who have territorial claims against
their nation. The Oliver Stone picture, in my opinion, does not
clearly define Macedonians as Greeks.
In addition to these concerns, many Greeks are offended by the
bisexual portrayal of Alexander. It is also rumoured that many Greek
associations may have plans to sue Oliver Stone.
Again, ancient Greek terminology and its translations by western
scholars may have played a role in the "bisexual" interpretation of
Alexander. We have already seen how the term "Xanthenein" has been
stretched to paint a "Scandinavian" Alexander.
(5) The Portrayal of Roxanna and the Perpetuation of the "Hollywood
Persian"
My wife Parnian and I, as Iranians, found the portrayal of Roxanna
insulting. This portrayal has been defined by the aforementioned
Professor Fox, whose has already been noted for his shallow
understanding of Persian arts and architecture. Professor Fox's
portrayal of Roxanna also indicates that he has very little knowledge
of Iran's anthropological history.
The portrayal of ancient Iranians is outright comical, if not
insulting. The inaccurate Hollywood portrayal of Iranians is
exemplified by the selection of Rosario Dawson
(http://www.lostfocus.de/archives/rosario_dawson.jpg), a very
talented, beautiful and intelligent black actress, to star as Roxanna,
an ancient Iranian queen from Soghdia-Bactria. Roxanna was not black,
anymore than Alexander was Scandinavian. Having Rosario Dawson
portrayed as Roxanna makes as much sense as having Lucy Liu, an
Asian-American, portraying Queen Victoria of Great Britain.
The term Roxanna is derived from Old Iranian "Rokh-shwan" or "face
(Ruksh) - fair skinned-shiny (shwan)". Roxanna was related to a North
Iranian tribe known later as the Sarmatians, the remnants who survive
in the Caucasus and Russia as the Ossetians (ancient Alans or
Ard-Alans)
Roman sources such as Pliny repeatedly describe ancient North Iranian
peoples such as the Alans and Seres as "…flaxen (blonde) haired blue
eyed nomads…" (see Wilcox, p.19). Rosario Dawson does not fit the
description of an ancient Iranian woman, especially from Northern
Iranian stock. The Ossetians of today, descendants of ancient Northern
Iranians, predominantly resemble northern Iranians and Europeans and
speak an archaic Iranian language (like the Avesta of the
Zoroastrians). Blondism is very common among these descendants of
ancient North Iranians in cities such as Beslan and Vladikafkaz. It
can be argued that Roxanna was a brunette, however, she was of
Northern Iranian stock, which would still make her very different from
actress Rosario Dawson.
There are plenty of talented actresses of Iranian descent in North
America alone that would well fit the historical Roxanna. Oliver Stone
could have just as easily selected an Iranian actress, however he
relied on the historical "expertise" of Professor Fox. The question
that can be addressed to Professor Fox is this: what makes Rosario
Dawson so representative of Iranian women and Roxanna in particular?
Is the Professor aware of the anthropology and history of ancient Iran
as it was at 333 BC?
More puzzling is the design of Roxanna's costume in the movie. Note
the photo showing the marriage of Alexander to Roxanna. Roxanna
appears to wear a Burka-like veil constructed of strips of metallic
mesh in which the face is partly hidden. See the photo (enter link
below into your internet browser):
http://www.alexander-the-great.co.uk/showimages.php?id=alex3_l.jpg
The headgear is partly correct if we base the costume on the Saka
Paradraya Iranian speaking tribes of the present-day Ukraine (8-4th
centuries BC). The decorations on the headgear are simply wrong and
Iranian queens did not wear face masks of any type. For a discussion
of the Saka Paradrya, known in the west as Scythians, consult:
E.V. Cernenko. The Scythians 700-300 BC. London: OspreyPublishing,
1989.
ISBN: 0850454786
See colour plate G.
Once you have consulted Professor's Cernenko's book, it will be
evident how flawed the costume design is, not to mention the colors.
None of the reconstructions by Professor Gorelik, which Cernenko has
consulted, show any type of face masks for ancient Iranian women.
Ancient Iranian women, who were found in military, religious and
political leadership roles, simply did not wear such attire during
courtship, marriage or everyday duties.
It is not clear why Professor Fox has chosen a Burka-like face mask
for Roxanna at Alexander's wedding. Variants of this face mask are
present in Afghanistan today, mainly the result of former Taliban rule
and very conservative Pashtoon tribal society, which very strongly
identifies itself with the culture of ancient Arabia.
Even more interesting is the "Arabian Nights" portrayal of an
Achaemenid harem. Harems certainly existed in Persia and the later
Roman and Byzantine courts, however the specifically "Arabian"
appearance accdored to the Achaemenids is simply consistent with the
Hollywood tradition of portraying Iranians as Arabs.
Interestingly, the movie portrays the "Persians" with Arabian styles
of music and dance. This portrayal is not based on factual
information; it is a Hollywood portrayal. From the scant evidence that
exists, we do know that one of the Persian styles of dance strongly
resembled the dances of the Kurds of today; a style also seen in
western Turkey, Greece and the Balkans today. As for music, we have no
notes or scales from that period, and "Arab music" as we know it today
simply did not exist at that time; it is a much later creation.
Arabian music can trace its beginnings to the Bedouin tribes of Arabia
- it later borrowing heavily of Sassanian and Greek scales (after the
7th century AD).
These errors are enough to question the historical accuracy of the
Alexander picture. It seems that when it comes to Iranians and their
identity, history is easily "re-written" for the benefit of popular
entertainment. As Professor Fox has duly noted in an interview with
Archeology Today (http://www.archaeology.org/online/interviews/fox.html),
the movie "could not totally depart from audiences' expectations". The
"audience" undoubtedly has "expectations" as to what Iranians "should"
look like.
Given Professor Fox's rudimentary knowledge of Persia's anthropology,
you may wish to refer to:
J.P. Mallory. In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archeology
and Myth. London: Thames & Hudson, 1989.
ISBN: 0-500-27616-1
Read pages: 9-23, 48-56, 78, 266-272.
An excellent article by Dr. Oric Basirov is posted as well:
http://home.btconnect.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/Oric.Basirov/origin_of_the_iranians.htm
For color reconstructions of ancient Iranians see:
P. Wilcox. Rome's Enemies (3): Parthians and Sassanid Persians.
London: OspreyPublishing, 1986.
ISBN: 0850456886
T. Newark. The Barbarians. London: Concord Publications Company, 1998.
ISBN: 9623616341
See Page 7 (the Saka - ancestors of today's Lurs and Seistanis) and 30
(ancestors of the Ard-Alan).
Iran today is very much a genetic tapestry that includes blondism in
Northern and Western Iran (e.g. Parsabad, or Talysh), as well as among
Iranian peoples such as Lurs, Azeris, Mazandaranis, Kurds and
Boyer-Ahmadis. Iran is also home to Arabians in Khuzistan and the
Persian Gulf coast, Asiatic Turcomens in the Northeast, as well as the
Baluchis near Pakistan, who have a strong Dravidian admixture. You may
wish to read the very thorough and precise compendium of Iranian
peoples today by:
F. Hole (Editor). The Archaeology of Western Iran: Settlement and
Society from Prehistory to the Islamic Conquest (Smithsonian Series in
Archaeological Inquiry). Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution
Press, 1987.
ISBN: 0874745268
W. B. Fisher (Editor). The Cambridge History of Iran: Volume 1, The
Land of Iran. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2004.
ISBN: 0521069351
These books (especially the Cambridge History of Iran series) will
provides a more informed and less misleading analysis of Iran's
anthropological history than that offered by Professor Fox.
As seen in this commentary, Hollywood portrayals of Iranians are in
stark contrast to reality. Until the Arabian arrivals in the 7th
century AD, the majority of Iranians would have looked no different
from the Greeks or Romans. Greek and Roman references to classical
Iranians do not refer to them as different in the "physical" sense;
differences lay mainly in manner of government, philosophy and to a
lesser extent, mythology. The Azadan nobility of the Parthian and
Sassanian Savaran (elite cavalry), more than 500 years later than
Alexander, are described by Peter Wilcox as "…very similar to the
Celts…strikingly similar to Northwest Europeans…" (p.6). There are
still many short stories in Southern Italy today which accurately
portray the temperament and appearance of the Persians as they would
have appeared in antiquity.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = = =
Despite the powerful historical revisionism of a number of mainly
northwest European historians such as Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) or the
aforementioned Fallmerayer, the Greco-Roman world and Persia have
profoundly influenced each other in areas such as architecture, the
arts and crafts, the sciences and medicine, mythology, military and
engineering technologies. While true that one can find a number of
anti-Persian references in Greco-Roman sources, these were in the
context of wars that broke out between these powers. A perfect example
of this is how the movie explicitly shows Aristotle deriding the
Persians as inferior to the Greeks. Modern Greeks place this in
context and see Aristotle as expressing the political climate of his
day. Iranians are very well liked and respected in Greece and are seen
as the heirs of a great civilization. Alexander himself came to
greatly appreciate the Iranians and their culture. It is a shame that
the movie did not show Alexander as paying homage to the tomb of Cyrus
the Great.
As noted previously, Greco-Roman historians who were prepared to
acknowledge and highly praise the Persians (e.g. Xenophon, Plutarch,
etc.). Today's popular culture, education systems and movie
entertainment industries in particular, seem to be providing a very
selective and distorted view of Persia with respect to antiquity. Many
are simply not aware (or wish not be aware) of Persia's importance and
status in antiquity let alone her major contributions to world
civilization.
Ancient Greeks, Romans and Persians had much more in common with each
other than with the relatively unsophisticated Celtic and Germanic
peoples who were roaming the Northern European forests. For an
incisive discussion of these little discussed topics consult:
N. Spatari. Calabria, L'enigma Delle Arti Asittite: Nella Calabria
Ultramediterranea. Italy: MUSABA, 2003.
ISBN: 8887935300
As far as I know, this book has still not be translated from Italian
to English. Still an excellent read, especially with the
illustrations.
P. Kriwaczek. In Search of Zarathustra: The First prophet and the
Ideas that Changed the World. Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 2002.
ISBN: 0297646222
I look forward to the day when we will see blockbuster movies of
Shapur I (241-272) who defeated three Roman emperors in his lifetime
and destroyed a third of Rome's armies. Even more dramatic would be to
see movies made of the life and times of figures such as Zarathustra,
Aryaman, Shahrbaraz, Mani, Mazdak, Babak, Abu Ali Sina or Omar
Khayyam.
Dr. Kaveh Farrokh
Manu...@aol.com
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4653 Re: The Alexander Movie: How are Iranians and Greeks portrayed?
IRANSCOPE INFO ghandchi Thu 12/2/2004
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Dorian West
news:9eff937e.04120...@posting.google.com...
> Here are my two cents on this issue, although I have not seen the ovie
> and do not plan to see it because from what I heard form my second
> cousin, it is silly and at times offensive. I don't need to be asked
> to leave by the usher, and the usher doesn't need to get his jaw wired
> ;-)
>
> 1) about the Nordicism of ancient Greeks. There are many
> antrhopologists, including two that I can think of right now including
> Carlton Coon and Ripley who refuted the myth of Greek Nordicism. In
> fact, according to anthropologists like Fisher who was famous for his
> study of pigmentation among european and west Asian and NOrth African
> populations, the Greeks only have 4% LIGHT HAIR!!!
> 96% of Greeks have black or dark brown hair and the skin is generally
> dar.
Then Alexander was 1 of the 4%. See below anyway.
> Some may remember a would be presidential candidate years ago, named
> Dukakis. He was the typical Greek: Dark, short, big nosed with curly
> or wavy black hair.
Dukakis is not a typical Greek, he is an islander. Mainlanders come from
cooler climates and Macedonian-Greeks, like Alexander, would be about 15%
fair-haired, if not more. That's 1 in 7. Why don't you look at the other
Greek US presidential candidate, the late Paul Tsonags? He was fair haired
and into old age.
> The depiction of characters such as Alexander and Jesus in Hollywood
> as blonde and blue eyes merely reflects the obsession that America has
> with blond hair. In no country I have visited in my life have I seen
Jesus was fair-haired too. Why not? Or at least medium-brown. Nordics don't
have a monopoly on blonde hair. The majority of them may have blonde hair in
some countries but others have it too, including Arabs, Jews, Iranians.
ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!!!! Macedonians were and are a Greek tribe. Just the name
itself is a giveaway - Macedonia from Latin, Macedonius "Macedonian," from
Greek, Makedones, lit. "highlanders" or "the tall ones," related to makednos
"long, tall," makros "long, large."
Let Alexander himself tell you what Macedonians were and are.
"Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great
harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader
of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which
I took from you." Arrianos II (Anabasis) 14, 4 Historian, 95-175AD
"There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service, but how different
is their cause from ours?! They will be fighting for pay and not much of it
at that; we on the contrary shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be
in it." Arrian. The Campaigns of Alexander. Alexander talking to the troops
before the battle. Book 2-7 Penguin Classics. Page 112. Translation by
Aubrey De Seliucourt.
> ancient terms, Macedonians were similar to modern Swiss, they were a
> collection of people that included a small minority of Greeks whose
> upper class was admited at the Greek games (known to us as the
> Olympics). The majority of the population however was not Greek. There
> were Illyrians, related in language to the people of Albania (this
> INdo-European speech once spread as far north as modern Slovenia and
> northeast Italy) and Thrakians whose only modern relatives in speech
> today are Armenians.
More communist inspired lies from the eastern block. Macedonians spoke
Greek, used Greek names, worshipped Greek gods and spread the Greek language
and culture to 3 continents. Mount Olympus, home of the Greek's gods and so
sacred to Greeks that it was surmounted in 1906AD, is in Macedonia -
Greece's largest and perhaps proudest province. Are the Greeks abject morons
to worship gods that reside in a foreign land?
There you have it, traitors always are treated worse than the enemy and this
is as it should be and this is what I would do also. Your propaganda is
slipping.
> 4)As far as the role of Roxanne being filled by a Negroid, I find that
> completely absurd. As it has often been pointed out, the original
> Persians and Medes who settled Iran before mixing with the darker
This is the only bit I agree on. Why a Negroid?????
These defeats are only a myth. Accordingly we would see Alexander defeated
by everyone if we believed these myths.
> "color-coded" and â?Ś which could not totally depart from audiences'
> a drop of pure Greek blood runs in the veins of modern Greeksâ?Ś" To
> peoples such as the Alans and Seres as "â?Śflaxen (blonde) haired blue
> eyed nomadsâ?Ś" (see Wilcox, p.19). Rosario Dawson does not fit the
> Alexander, are described by Peter Wilcox as "â?Śvery similar to the
> Celtsâ?Śstrikingly similar to Northwest Europeansâ?Ś" (p.6). There are
> Copyright Å 2004 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
sirknight67
>
According to whom? To eurocentrist racists? I just mentioned that
acording to the Alexander Mosaic and the busts made of Alexander he
did not fit that profile. WHy are you having such a hard time
accepting this, is it because it is against your culture to worship
and deify someone who's not blond and thus doesn't reflect the image
of the Northern European conqueror?
>
> Dukakis is not a typical Greek, he is an islander. >
Wrong, he is a typical Greek. I have lived and visited countries on
four continents and encountered dozens and dozens of Greeks. Not ONE
fit into your Nordic fantasy type of the Greeks. Two of my sparring
partners were also pure blooded Greeks, one from Athens, the other
from the Peloponesus. Both were dark and black haired.
<Mainlanders come from
> cooler climates and Macedonian-Greeks, like Alexander, would be about 15%
> fair-haired, if not more. That's 1 in 7. >
And this is according to what statistic and source, yours? Sorry, that
doesn't qualify as a valid source of information. You can't just throw
in statistics without backing them up.
<Why don't you look at the other
> Greek US presidential candidate, the late Paul Tsonags? He was fair haired
> and into old age.>
So what? Americans are a Heinz 57 people. The guy who says he's
"Italian" also probably has German, IRish, Native American, Scottish
etc...blood in him. Have you been able to trace his ancestry back one
hundred percent and ascertain that he was pure Greek?
Besides, according to William Ripley (Races of Europe, New York,
1931), the Greeks allowed the heavy colonization of their country by
members of other ethnicities in the years following the Ottoman
conquest and this included Romanians (Zinzaren) and mostly Slavs. As
well all know, Slavs have a high frequency of light hair, as evidenced
by Poles (60+ %), Russians (40%) and Czeks (50%). THose 4% you are
seeing today are more than likely descended from Varangian Swedish
Vikings imported as mercenaries by Byzantium in the 9-11th centuries,
and Slavs who settled en masse all the way to Epirus.
> Jesus was fair-haired too.>
Yes, according to your favorite organizations, the Southern Christian
White Knights and the KKK. ANy evidence of this other than the
pathetic representations by "artists" in southern US churches?
Once again, this is a racist and eurocentrist attitude which shows
that you American-born of European extraction have a hard time
identifying with a historical character unless he is made to ressemble
Saxons, Jutes, Alamans, Norse etc...This is truly a sorry case of
hijacking personalities and finds parallels among the black American
community who try to hijack Moses, Jesus, the Egyptians, the
Carthaginians etc...
< Why not? Or at least medium-brown. Nordics don't
> have a monopoly on blonde hair.>
True, Australoid people often have blonde hair, like the Aborigines,
the Melanesians and some Pacific Isladers. We are talking about white
people though. Those people with blond hair have been termed "Nordic".
According to Coon and others, some descendants of Paleolithic hunters
of europe who currently live in Norway, Germany, Holland etc...also
acquired what they called a "partial" blondism as a result of
depigmentation, from living in conidtions deprived of sunlight. Still
that blondism is different than the one present among the Nordics.
Jews, including Jesus however were Semites and their race was similar
to Arabs, another fact that Americans havwe a hard time comprehending
because again, that's like worshipping a foreigner rather than a "gold
ol boy". Same thing drives Orientals to turn Buddha, a fair skinned
northern Indian man into a fat Oriental featured man.
< The majority of them may have blonde hair in some countries but
others have it too, including Arabs, Jews, Iranians.>
You are now showing that you have a very, very serious lack of
knowledge of not just anthropology and genetics but also history and
the facts associated wtih the movements of people and nations to
different regions of the world.
First of all, ARABS ARE NOT BLOND. I don't know when was the last time
you looked at an Arab. Arabs are predominatnly Mediterranean people,
with mixture of Negro, Negrito and AUstraloid blood (in the Arabian
Peninsula, Yemen and Oman) and some are Armenoid/Dinaric (Lebanese and
Syrians), because they have absorbed over the past 6,000 years the
native copper age populations of Syria and the Levant (De Lacy, Hitti,
Coon).
Second, Jews are not a race for your information. And those Israelis
that you mentioned as "blond" are Khazarian Jews, descended partly
from Iranian Sarmatians who were described as fair or red haired by
Marcellinus, Slavs and Germans from eastern Europe converted to
Judaism in the 8th to11-centuries or mixed with Jewish immigrants from
Persia who fled the Arab invasions of the 7th century.
Third, IRANIANS...hello???????? Iranians are partially the descendants
of Indo-European tribes of NORDIC extraction that migrated from
eastern Europe some 5,000 years ago, and mixed into the local native
Mediterranean and Australoid populations, later mixed with Semitic
elements. Those ancient Scythians, Sarmatians, Persians and Medes
were, as described by historians as well as ancient art work NORDIC,
hence the partial degree of blondism you see among some Iranians from
time to time. Likewise, about 20% of Iranians have light eyes, usually
green or blue thus also showing the ancient connection with Europe.
According to Cavalli Sforzza, Iranians also share 25% of common genes
with northern and eastern Europeans (once again, the Indo-European
connection).
> ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!!!! Macedonians were and are a Greek tribe. Just the name
> itself is a giveaway - Macedonia from Latin, Macedonius "Macedonian," from
> Greek, Makedones, lit. "highlanders" or "the tall ones," related to makednos
> "long, tall," makros "long, large."
What a crock of uneducated crap you are spewing here. Read "Alexander"
and "warfare in the classical world" both by John Warry. You seriously
need to get informed before making such asinine statements.
> Let Alexander himself tell you what Macedonians were and are.
>
> "Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great
> harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader
> of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which
> I took from you." Arrianos II (Anabasis) 14, 4 Historian, 95-175AD
>
???What "proof" is that? LIke I already mentioned, Macedonians were a
PARTIALLY Greek people and, like the Swiss today who are mostly German
but also French, Italians and Ladin (Rhomansh), the Macedonians were a
mix of Greek, Illyrian and Thrakian. Too bad that doesn't fit into
your ethnocentrist
propaganda campaign but facts are facts and you can't change that.
>
> "There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service, but how different
> is their cause from ours?! They will be fighting for pay and not much of it
> at that; we on the contrary shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be
> in it." Arrian. The Campaigns of Alexander. Alexander talking to the troops
> before the battle. Book 2-7 Penguin Classics. Page 112. Translation by
> Aubrey De Seliucourt.>
Ridiculous. It's funny that you omit the CONQUEST OF GREECE by
Alexander, when he deafetad the armies of Argos, Thebes etc...Was that
also for a "Greek cause"? Totally ridiculous claim. Those Greeks that
fought against him certainly didn't share your views.
> More communist inspired lies from the eastern block.>
When failling at an argument, which in your case is failling miserably
I might add, stick "liberal" or left wing labels on the same people
who are crushing you wtih facts against your fiction.
I am neither a communist, nor from the eastern block and my sources
are certainly not inspired by either.
<Macedonians spoke Greek, used Greek names, worshipped Greek gods and
spread the Greek language and culture to 3 continents.>
Once again NONSENSE. THe Greek element among Macedonians spoke Greek
and Macedonia was a HELLENIZED country, meaning much of its cultural
influences came from Greece. This was not true for the Illyrian and
Thrakians.
India and Turkey both used PERSIAN as a language for science, letters
and education until the 18th century. Their architecture and customs
were typically Persian does that make Indians and Turks PERSIAN? I
think not although you can't seem to understand that.
> There you have it, traitors always are treated worse than the enemy and this
> is as it should be and this is what I would do also. Your propaganda is
> slipping.>
Which propaganda are you talking about? Or is that what you choose to
call FACT, the same that destroys your racist ethnocentric sand
castles and delusions?
> This is the only bit I agree on. Why a Negroid?????>>
What do you mean why a Negroid? I have no idea, ask Oliver Stone, he's
the one that selected his cast!
> These defeats are only a myth. Accordingly we would see Alexander defeated
> by everyone if we believed these myths.>
I'll tell you what is a myth, the notion that you have the slightest
clue about historical events, not to mention that you do not have a
single source to contradict what I am stating here, backed by sources
including the Phd author John Warry who wrote extensively about
Alexander, his life, his battles and his shortcomings.
Second, I didn't say he was defeated in person, I said his troops and
men were defeated. That was the case in Bactria when Espantaman (known
to the west as Spitamenes), a descendant of Zarathushtra's clan
(Zoroaster to teh west)who fought and, once again according to the
same author, killed more men in one ambush alone that Alexander lost
in all his battles, and this was accomplished with the help of the
eastern Iranian Scythians whom Alexander highly respected for their
military skill.
Alexander proceeded to defeat the Scythians who then killed Espantaman
and betrayed him and the cause and delivered his head as a sign of
peace.
Dorian West
>> Then Alexander was 1 of the 4%. See below anyway.
>>
>
> According to whom? To eurocentrist racists? I just mentioned that
> acording to the Alexander Mosaic and the busts made of Alexander he
> did not fit that profile. WHy are you having such a hard time
> accepting this, is it because it is against your culture to worship
> and deify someone who's not blond and thus doesn't reflect the image
> of the Northern European conqueror?
I don't have a hard time accepting reality. Like I said before blondism is
not monopolised by Nordics. Here is a mosaic done by Greeks about Alexander,
not Italians, hundreds of years later in a Byzantine icon style where all
Greeks and Italians look like south Indians.
http://www.livius.org/a/1/alexander/alexander_craterus.jpg As you can see,
he has fair hair.
>>
>> Dukakis is not a typical Greek, he is an islander. >
>
> Wrong, he is a typical Greek. I have lived and visited countries on
> four continents and encountered dozens and dozens of Greeks. Not ONE
> fit into your Nordic fantasy type of the Greeks. Two of my sparring
> partners were also pure blooded Greeks, one from Athens, the other
> from the Peloponesus. Both were dark and black haired.
WRONG is you. I work with 6 Greeks in a large telecommunications company and
1 is blonde, 1 is red-auburn, 2 brown and 2 black haired. In my previous job
at the Anglo-Persian oil company there were 10 with 2 blonde, 4 brown and 4
black haired. And I am talking natural blonde. So we have 3/16 having fair
hair, which is even more than my alleged 10-15%, it's 19%. There will be
cases where it will even itself out though.You need to really brush up on
statistics. If 1 in 10 marbles is white, the others black, what's the
probability 10 drawn in sequence with replacement are black? Answer: 0.348.
> <Mainlanders come from
>> cooler climates and Macedonian-Greeks, like Alexander, would be about 15%
>> fair-haired, if not more. That's 1 in 7. >
>
> And this is according to what statistic and source, yours? Sorry, that
> doesn't qualify as a valid source of information. You can't just throw
> in statistics without backing them up.
The statistic of above, the statistic of me travelling to Greece 5 time
since 1982.
> <Why don't you look at the other
>> Greek US presidential candidate, the late Paul Tsonags? He was fair
>> haired
>> and into old age.>
>
> So what? Americans are a Heinz 57 people. The guy who says he's
> "Italian" also probably has German, IRish, Native American, Scottish
> etc...blood in him. Have you been able to trace his ancestry back one
> hundred percent and ascertain that he was pure Greek?
WRONG AGAIN. He was a pure Greek and I now see your agenda and I will treat
you accordingly.
> Besides, according to William Ripley (Races of Europe, New York,
> 1931), the Greeks allowed the heavy colonization of their country by
> members of other ethnicities in the years following the Ottoman
> conquest and this included Romanians (Zinzaren) and mostly Slavs. As
> well all know, Slavs have a high frequency of light hair, as evidenced
Slavs have not left any genetic imprint on Greece as Slavs are a Mongol race
with high cheekbones and slant-eyes. Slavs were never conquerors of Greece
and never a warrior race like the Greeks. Slavs do not have fair hair in
predominance, only in the north - Poland, Ukraine etc. Romanians were wiped
out by the Romans and are very Latinised. Greeks expelled the Turks with
force and also all the mixed Turk-Greeks, if there ever were any in
significant numbers so what remains is an essentially pure Greece. If you
want to find these bastardised Greeks, you have to go to Turkey where their
descendants have been expelled to.
> by Poles (60+ %), Russians (40%) and Czeks (50%). THose 4% you are
> seeing today are more than likely descended from Varangian Swedish
> Vikings imported as mercenaries by Byzantium in the 9-11th centuries,
> and Slavs who settled en masse all the way to Epirus.
>
>
>> Jesus was fair-haired too.>
>
> Yes, according to your favorite organizations, the Southern Christian
> White Knights and the KKK. ANy evidence of this other than the
> pathetic representations by "artists" in southern US churches?
> Once again, this is a racist and eurocentrist attitude which shows
> that you American-born of European extraction have a hard time
> identifying with a historical character unless he is made to ressemble
> Saxons, Jutes, Alamans, Norse etc...This is truly a sorry case of
> hijacking personalities and finds parallels among the black American
> community who try to hijack Moses, Jesus, the Egyptians, the
> Carthaginians etc...
Jesus Christ was sent by God and he had reddish-light-brown hair. It's that
simple. Live with it. He was sent for the benefit of the white race for he
was sent in the epicentre of Greek and Roman civilisations - the Middle
East.
I myself went to Monash Uni in the 70s - a respected institution world wide
and I studied Greek, Roman and Byzantine history. I don't need some
Mongolslave from some impoverished 3rd world hell-hole, whose institutions
aren't even worthy of 7th century Europe, to tell me about Greeks, Romans or
whether or the quintessential Greekness of Macedonians - the tribe of Greeks
that Hellenised the civilised world.
>> Let Alexander himself tell you what Macedonians were and are.
>>
>> "Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great
>> harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed
>> leader
>> of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia,
>> which
>> I took from you." Arrianos II (Anabasis) 14, 4 Historian, 95-175AD
>>
>
> ???What "proof" is that? LIke I already mentioned, Macedonians were a
> PARTIALLY Greek people and, like the Swiss today who are mostly German
> but also French, Italians and Ladin (Rhomansh), the Macedonians were a
> mix of Greek, Illyrian and Thrakian. Too bad that doesn't fit into
> your ethnocentrist
> propaganda campaign but facts are facts and you can't change that.
An analogy which is wrong. Thracians are Greek anyway and Illyrians and
Macedonians fought fierce battles and eventually the Macedonians forced them
back beyond anything remotely resembling teh Hellenic world.
I do not give a hoot about India and other non-Greek people or the Swiss.
These are useless analogies that have nothing to do with a Greek provicne
and a well documented part of the Greek world for over 3,000 years.
Macedonians were and are Greek and I will repeat myself to get into your
thick Mongolslaves skull. I do not talk with analogies, I use the facts. I
have also been to Macedonia myself, visited the royal tomb, looked at the
inscriptions, the writings, the people - ALL GREEK.
Macedonians were and are a Greek tribe. Just the name itself is a giveaway -
Macedonia from Latin, Macedonius "Macedonian," from
Greek, Makedones, lit. "highlanders" or "the tall ones," related to makednos
"long, tall," makros "long, large."
Let Alexander himself tell you what Macedonians were and are.
"Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great
harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader
of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which
I took from you." Arrianos II (Anabasis) 14, 4 Historian, 95-175AD
"There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service, but how different
is their cause from ours?! They will be fighting for pay and not much of it
at that; we on the contrary shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be
in it." Arrian. The Campaigns of Alexander. Alexander talking to the troops
before the battle. Book 2-7 Penguin Classics. Page 112. Translation by
Aubrey De Seliucourt.
I see you conveniantly deleted this text from my original. I wonder why?
More communist inspired lies from the eastern block. Macedonians spoke
Greek, used Greek names, worshipped Greek gods and spread the Greek language
and culture to 3 continents. Mount Olympus, home of the Greek's gods and so
sacred to Greeks that it was surmounted in 1906AD, is in Macedonia -
Greece's largest and perhaps proudest province. Are the Greeks abject morons
to worship gods that reside in a foreign land?
>> There you have it, traitors always are treated worse than the enemy and
Yeah sure Alexander lost all his battles. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That's why they
still speak GREEK in isolated parts of northern India and Afghanistan.
Bikenut
Alexanders cavalry were from Thessaly not Illyria.
Mark Anagnostou
The majority of Greeks have brown hair.Id say about 80%
Id say another 10% has black hair ans the last 10% blonde.
As for this dick saying Greeks are short.What planet is he from.
Most Greek men are pretty tall and broad shouldered.
Certainly taller then the English.
Most of my Greek freinds are over 6 feet.Im the shortest and stand at 5 11.
So quit the racist bullshit.
P.S me ex who was Greek was as blonde as u could get.My wife who is of
slavic descent is dark haired.
Alborz
The Majority of Greeks looking like the the Turks.
"Mark Anagnostou" <mark...@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:41b2e793$0$25777$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
Alborz
Olympia the mother of Alexander was an illyrian form ( todoay ) country
Albania.
The half of the population of current state of Makedonia are Albanians.
I believe that was the same Relation in ancient time.
"Dorian West" <bitb...@ripe.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:41b1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Dorian West
"Alborz" <inma...@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:I7Dsd.68706$ha.1...@news.chello.at...
>I have many Greeks colleagues
>
> The Majority of Greeks looking like the the Turks.
You have NO GREEK COLLEAGUES. Greeks don't clean toilets or wash dishes or
lose their appendages in drunken stupors on some production line. Get it
rag-head?
Dorian West
with in 2 different places (there are more, but I actually knew these 100%
Greeks which ranged in age from 33 to 46 now), most Greeks are brown haired
Caucasians and yes they are tall - taller than Italians by a long-shot and
forget the Asian stumpy dwarfs - all Greeks are taller than the under-fed
Mongol-Asian-Caucasian mutts. In fact the 2 tallest people in Europe come
from the regions of Montenegro (coastal Yugoslavia) and Crete (islandic
Greece) - don't take my word for it look it up.
The rabid hatred of Americans and other Nordics has coloured the view that
these Asian and communistic hordes have of the 1st white race that dominated
them - the Greeks. Well that's too bad. You know at the end of the day I may
not like Americans, Germans, Italians, Greeks or Belgians, but they are
Caucasian and they're branches of my race that I choose to hate.
"Mark Anagnostou" <mark...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41b2e793$0$25777$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
Jason K. Lambrou
Perspolis
> "Alborz" <inma...@gmx.at> wrote in message
> news:I7Dsd.68706$ha.1...@news.chello.at...
>> I have many Greeks colleagues
>>
>> The Majority of Greeks looking like the the Turks.
>
> You have NO GREEK COLLEAGUES. Greeks don't clean toilets or wash
> dishes
then who the fuck was onassis????
Alborz
>
> "Alborz" <inma...@gmx.at> wrote in message
> news:I7Dsd.68706$ha.1...@news.chello.at...
> >I have many Greeks colleagues
> >
> > The Majority of Greeks looking like the the Turks.
>
> You have NO GREEK COLLEAGUES. Greeks don't clean toilets or wash dishes or
> lose their appendages in drunken stupors on some production line. Get it
> rag-head?
>
I have many colleagues from Athen with them i work very close in the office
I can post at least 10-20 names here.
all small , dark hair , dark eyes , typical Mediterranean person.
very fine people , I like all of them ,
none is an idiot with inferiority complex like you
a.d.danilecki
> Slavs have not left any genetic imprint on Greece as Slavs are a Mongol race
> with high cheekbones and slant-eyes. Slavs were never conquerors of Greece
Uhm? Historically, Slavs have effectively conquered much of the Greece
(the countryside; somehow, IIRC they never took any fortified city).
So what happened to those whole people? They jsut miracoulously
disappeared?
> and never a warrior race like the Greeks. Slavs do not have fair hair in
Huh. you were not reading your history? If Slavs are mongol race, so
are Germans, Slavic languages are most close to Baltic ones, and then
to Germanic ones.
Besides, Since Slavs were invading Byznatium (first as suppliers of
infantry to different nomadic tribes, then on their own) and quite
succesfully, it's hard to argue (especially when reading about their
picture in medieval works) that they were not warriors.
Think about it. Almost everything which Slavs have took during V
century and later is still Slavic, with very small exceptions.
Of course, there are no more Slavic taifas in Spain, but then, who is
perfect :))))
> predominance, only in the north - Poland, Ukraine etc. Romanians were wiped
That this, in places where most of theories palces the original
homeland of Slavs.
Disproportionally high percentage of blondes in Germany is in area,
which was once inhabited predominantly by Slavs, east of Elbe.
Dorian West
"a.d.danilecki" <szo...@europe.com> wrote in message
news:3f4f8da4.04120...@posting.google.com...
> "Dorian West" <bitb...@ripe.net> wrote in message
> news:<41b2...@dnews.tpgi.com.au>...
>
>> Slavs have not left any genetic imprint on Greece as Slavs are a Mongol
>> race
>> with high cheekbones and slant-eyes. Slavs were never conquerors of
>> Greece
>
> Uhm? Historically, Slavs have effectively conquered much of the Greece
> (the countryside; somehow, IIRC they never took any fortified city).
> So what happened to those whole people? They jsut miracoulously
> disappeared?
SLAVES NEVER CONQUERED GREECE AND IF THEY DID.... Where is their linguistic
and cultural legacy??? NOWHERE. Rather, it's the other way around. Slaves
are the biggest losers in the world and they can conquer no-one, not then
and not now.
>> and never a warrior race like the Greeks. Slavs do not have fair hair in
>
> Huh. you were not reading your history? If Slavs are mongol race, so
> are Germans, Slavic languages are most close to Baltic ones, and then
> to Germanic ones.
So what about Germans, this isn't about Germans and Germans are not an
Asiatic race. When Rome was fighting Germans, Slaves were 800 years away in
Asia. Germans are indigenous European, like Italians, Celts and Greeks.
> Besides, Since Slavs were invading Byznatium (first as suppliers of
> infantry to different nomadic tribes, then on their own) and quite
> succesfully, it's hard to argue (especially when reading about their
> picture in medieval works) that they were not warriors.
>
> Think about it. Almost everything which Slavs have took during V
> century and later is still Slavic, with very small exceptions.
They took outlander places - places that Greeks and Romans - the dominant
races never ever took, even when they were sparsely populated. Greeks and
Romans liked to hug the sea, the coastal areas and they still do today.
> Of course, there are no more Slavic taifas in Spain, but then, who is
> perfect :))))
>
>> predominance, only in the north - Poland, Ukraine etc. Romanians were
>> wiped
>
> That this, in places where most of theories palces the original
> homeland of Slavs.
>
> Disproportionally high percentage of blondes in Germany is in area,
> which was once inhabited predominantly by Slavs, east of Elbe.
Explain Serbs, Croats, Bulgars and Bosnians with dark hair. They are still
Slaves.
Dorian West
The richest man in the globe, worth $USD 96 BILLION in today's money.
Dorian West
All small and typical huh? Bully for you. That makes you so much better to
be with midgets, doesn't it dwarf? I don't have an inferiority complex,
rather you fucking rock-apes that want to claim Alexander and Greek heritage
for yourselves have an inferiorty complex. I just tell it like it is. You
can live with your inferiority until it eats you up like a cancer for all I
care.
Nasht0n
I can assure yo that Greeks are tall, most of them dark-haired, with
about 10-20 % blonde. Not a question of being neurotic about it and I
don't subscribe to Dorian's racist views either.
He's an un-Greek who erroneously thinks he's doing Greeks a favor by
demonstrating his racism for everyone to see on Usenet, in the most
disgusting way possible.
Nicolas
Nasht0n
> The Alexander was not a Greek
> Olympia the mother of Alexander was an illyrian form ( todoay ) country
> Albania.
>
> The half of the population of current state of Makedonia are Albanians.
> I believe that was the same Relation in ancient time.
You seem to have a nationalist agenda also. Get lost.
Nicolas
Nasht0n
I agree with this estimation. OTOH, I can't see how phenotype is related
to anything of a cultural nature, especially in the way it is presented
by the un-Greek racist Dorian.
Nicolas
Adeimantos
news:9eff937e.04120...@posting.google.com...
> 96% of Greeks have black or dark brown hair and the skin is generally
> dar.
> Some may remember a would be presidential candidate years ago, named
> Dukakis. He was the typical Greek: Dark, short, big nosed with curly
> or wavy black hair.
There's no such thing as a "typical Greek." You say you've read Coon, yet
you forget how he states: "The Greeks, in short, are a blend of racial
types, of which two are most important; the Atlanto-Mediterranean and the
Alpine."
> According to various anthropological data I have collected over the
> years (for those of you itnerested I have an extensive bibliography),
> the Greeks are not nor have they ever been "Nordic".
That's not true, either. Nordicism was never strong or all-pervading in
ancient Greece, but this does not mean it never existed. It was a weak
element in the sub-racial types in Greece, just as it is a weak element in
today's Greece, but it still existed then as it still exists now.
> The prehistoric
> inhabitants of the islands were Capoid, meaning they were related to
> the Bushmen of south Africa and in fact much of southern Europe was
> once inhabited by Bushmen.
This must be one of the Top 10 Most Stupidest Claims I've ever read.
Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if we were to discover that you are some
Afrocentrist with an agenda to make Greece, Egypt, Persia, and Rome all
"black civilizations that the white man stole".
> 2)Alexander was a MACEDONIAN, not a Greek. What is a Macedonian? In
> ancient terms, Macedonians were similar to modern Swiss, they were a
> collection of people that included a small minority of Greeks whose
> upper class was admited at the Greek games (known to us as the
> Olympics). The majority of the population however was not Greek. There
> were Illyrians, related in language to the people of Albania (this
> INdo-European speech once spread as far north as modern Slovenia and
> northeast Italy) and Thrakians whose only modern relatives in speech
> today are Armenians.
This proves that you know nothing about history. Combined with your
ignorance of physical anthropology of the ancient (and modern) Greeks this
makes you an authority on absolutely nothing you are talking about.
> 3) This was NEVER a fight between Greeks and Persians. Alexander's
> army contained about 25% Greeks from mainland Greece. Many of his
> troops were non Greeks including the famous Agrianes, who were
> Thrakians and acted as "Peltasts" or light armed javelin throwers, as
> well as Illyrian cavalrymen.
Read above.
> 7) Lastly, the widly exagerated numbers by the lying sacks of shit
> like Herodotus, Arrian, Curtius etc...merely reflects that the Greeks
> are either insane, can't count worth of shit and suck at math or are
> total liars.
Yeah, this *definitely* makes you sound like a respectable authority on
history (please note the sarcasm...).
> 8) I laughed at the desire of the Greeks to "sue" Oliver Stone when in
> fact all their ancestors where a bunch of skin flute playing butt
> pirates and had the habit of "binding" each other's penises togther as
> a sign of homo-eroticism. In fact, one of the reasons the Spartan army
> was so efficient was that all the men of the Phalanx were placed next
> to their lovers. Greeks were a bunch of degenerate buttfuckers of
> their own Phalax, not to mention liars and distorters of facts which
> the eurocentrists have been more than eager to accept as "fact".
Don't worry. You've all given us a LOT to laugh about yourself. And also a
lot to pity.
-Adeimantos
triton
>
> "Alborz" <inma...@gmx.at> wrote in message
> news:I7Dsd.68706$ha.1...@news.chello.at...
>>I have many Greeks colleagues
>>
>> The Majority of Greeks looking like the the Turks.
>
> You have NO GREEK COLLEAGUES. Greeks don't clean toilets or wash dishes or
> lose their appendages in drunken stupors on some production line. Get it
> rag-head?
What is wrong with you dürzü Dorian?
I work with ten Grik people and they all look like Moroccans, bushman
of Africa.
tsk tsk tsk
--
triton
Dürzü Dorian, you are a big fart, a methane. Nothing else.
--
triton
> Alborz wrote:
>
>> The Alexander was not a Greek
>> Olympia the mother of Alexander was an illyrian form ( todoay ) country
>> Albania.
>>
>> The half of the population of current state of Makedonia are Albanians.
>> I believe that was the same Relation in ancient time.
>
> You seem to have a nationalist agenda also. Get lost.
>
> Nicolas
And you don't?
--
Nasht0n
No.
Nicolas
Kavik Kang
> green or blue thus also showing the ancient connection with Europe.
> According to Cavalli Sforzza, Iranians also share 25% of common genes
> with northern and eastern Europeans (once again, the Indo-European
> connection).
I don't know a lot about these kinds of things, but I do know something
about "green eyes". No race of people have green eyes. Green eyes are
proof of at least two racial backgrounds, because only a mix of racial
backgrounds can create green eyes. Anyone with green eyes is at least a mix
of two different racial backgrounds.
--
22: 40. Permission to take up arms is given to those against whom war is
made, because they have been wronged and Allah, indeed, has power to help
them. - Holy Qur'an
Jason K. Lambrou
STFU turkish eunuch
Dorian West
"Nasht0n" <na...@na.ca> wrote in message
news:3pHsd.190703$Np3.7...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
Isn't that what I just said? I also added that I'm sick of these people
trying to hijack Alexander for their own evil ends. The fact of the matter
is he was a Greek hero, he was blonde, he was king of Macedonia - the most
powerful Greek kingdom of the time, he enjoyed sex with women and may have
had some kind of close relationships with men, something which is pure
conjecture - end of story.
sirknight67
"Dorian West" <bitb...@ripe.net> wrote in message news:<41b2...@dnews.tpgi.com.au>...
> "sirknight67" <pema...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
OK JERK OFF since you keep insisting on publicly showing your utter
babbling stupidity, let me approach you the way a Mongo along your IQ
level is approached.
> I don't have a hard time accepting reality. Like I said before blondism is
> not monopolised by Nordics. Here is a mosaic done by Greeks about Alexander,
> not Italians, hundreds of years later in a Byzantine icon style where all
> Greeks and Italians look like south Indians.
> http://www.livius.org/a/1/alexander/alexander_craterus.jpg As you can see,
> he has fair hair.
Look MONGO, what part of NORDICS ARE BLOND, BLOND NORDICS INVADED IRAN
4,000 YEARS AGO, AND THOSE PARTLY BLOND OR LIGHT EYED IRANIANS TODAY
ARE DESCENDED FROM BLOND NORDICS OF 4,000 YEARS AGO MIXED INTO THE
LOCAL POPULATION. Are you that fucking stupid?
>
> WRONG is you. I work with 6 Greeks in a large telecommunications company and
> 1 is blonde, 1 is red-auburn, 2 brown and 2 black haired. >
Bullshit, first of all you don't have a job, second, sitting around
and counting a couple of degenerates that turn tricks on the same
street corner as you doesn't account for different regions etc... get
it?
<In my previous job at the Anglo-Persian oil company there were 10
with 2 blonde, 4 brown and 4 black haired.>
At this point, I don't even give a shit about the statistics of how
many blond vs how many black haired individuals you've blown and
swallowed. My concern now is that you are a fucking degenerate that
worked for the Anglo-Iranian oil company, a fucking parasitic
colonialist entity that cheated Iran out of its rightful 16%, typical
of the LImie bastards that you served. At this point, FUCK you and
your job working for that leach of a company that set the stage for
the impoverishment of Iranians, for the 1953 hijacking of the elected
Mossadegh by the MI6 terrorists and their CIA butt buddies.
<And I am talking natural blonde. So we have 3/16 having fair
> hair, which is even more than my alleged 10-15%, it's 19%. >
Fuck you and your alleged 19% how's that you wanne be blond? Greeks
are BLACK HAIRED, SWARTHY, HOOK NOSED MEDITERRANEANS similar to Turks
and Lebanese. Havea hard time admitting that? Because you're self
hating and try to pass as European that's why.
<here will be
> cases where it will even itself out though.You need to really brush up on
> statistics. If 1 in 10 marbles is white, the others black, what's the
> probability 10 drawn in sequence with replacement are black? Answer: 0.348.
>
My statistics are collected from a dozen anthropologists ranging from
Fisher, Gunther, Denniker, Coon, Ripley, COllignon and others. Your
statistics were collected while you were deciding which finger to use
to pick your big hooked Greek nose.
> The statistic of above, the statistic of me travelling to Greece 5 time
> since 1982.>
So asshole, basically you're saying that because you went to Greece 5
times, and blew a half a dozen people, and figured who had blond hair
on his balls, you think now you know more than a century and a half of
data collected on 70-80,000 people? You really are a fucking moron.
> WRONG AGAIN. He was a pure Greek and I now see your agenda and I will treat
> you accordingly.>
Agenda? Which agenda you fucking turd burglarizing Greek fuck trying
to pass as Blond German? THere are MORE BLOND IRANIANS THAN GREEKS
JERK OFF, and that's in spite of the fact that tens of thousands of
Salvs were brought in since the 8th century to insert their genetic
material into your female ancestors to make them less uggly.
Guess what mongo, according to Chantres and Ripley, about 30% of
Ossetes (descendants of Iranian Alans), as well as more than a third
of people living in the Badakhshan dsitrict of northern Afghanistan
and Tajikistan have blond hair, which shows that the original Iranian
nomads were of that physical type, and this was backed by Pliny,
Plutarch and Marcellinus. As for your UGLLY ass half breed Alexander,
he was 5'2", had a big wet nose like Osama Bin Ladin, dark skin and
curly black hair. What the fuck is your problem you racist fuck, you
ahve something against people of the Mediterranean physical type that
you keep projecting your "Nordic" ideal fantasy on that buttfucker?
>
> Slavs have not left any genetic imprint on Greece as Slavs are a Mongol race
> with high cheekbones and slant-eyes. >
You trully are a degenerate submoron jerk off. Slavs are a "Mongol
race" WRONG IDIOT, Slavs are teh direct descendants of the Lausitz
culture, part of the INdo-European "Urnfield cultures of the Bronze
age. As such, and ai suggest you read up on this, according to Carlton
Coon, the Slavs, from the Poliani, to the Kashubs, Czeks, Podolians,
Volhynians etc...until the 7th century were a dolichocephalic or
mesocephalic people whose anthropometric data and foresnsinc
measurements on body proportions, skull etc...were a NORDIC PEOPLE
related to the early Balts, Germanic tribes etc...
Only after the Mongol invasions of Russia have Slavs begun to increase
their Cephalic index towards 82 in Russia and Belarus. As for the
Czeks and Slovaks, they are a mixture called NORIC, which is a mixture
of Nordic INdo-Europeans with the so-called broadheaded Alpine race
that is a survivor frmo the Mesolithic "Lake dwellings" cultures. The
"Ice man" found in Austria fit that category.
Mongoloid blood has only seeped into Slavs in significan proportion
after Muscovy, Vladimir Suzdal, Novgorod and other Russian
principalties started their expandion into the forest belts where the
Finno-Ugrian tribes dwelt, and after the 13th century after the Mongol
invasions.
GOes to show you don't know JACK SHIT about either anthropology,
history, geography or any thing else for that matter and you're just
trolling here.
<Slavs were never conquerors of Greece and never a warrior race like
the Greeks.>
That's a truly laughable and RACIST statement, coming from a pan gree
asshole such as yourself. If you had any brain cells, you could read a
fucking map, showing that what is now Yugoslavia was once a Byzantine
province, settled since the 6th century by Slavs coming from the
Pripet marshes. The influx of Slavs into teh Balkans and later
Bulgaria was as much unstoppable as that of the Germans into the
western Roman Empire. So much for your fucking warrior race of
buttfuckers that called in thousands of Serbo-Croat mercenaries, not
to mention the Varangian Vikins who were the ones doing the real
fighting against the Turks and Arabs since the Byzantines themselves
were fat, lazy and corrupt and too busy buttfucking each other.
<Slavs do not have fair hair in
> predominance, only in the north - Poland, Ukraine etc.>
You trully are a FUCKING MORON Greek racist. Go read a couple of
books entitled "races of Central Europe" and "races of Europe" the
latter by Carlton Coon. In it you will find the famous Fisher series,
for all Europe. Here are some statistics to make you look like a
fucking clown even more than you have presented yourself as thus far:
First for Slavs with majority of light hair:
According to COllignon, 57% of the people of Belarus have ash blond,
golden blond or light brown hair.
According to Gunther (in racial elements of European history), 41% of
Czeks have blond, red or light brown hair
According to Fisher, 75% of Galicians (people inhabiting the region
between Poland and the Ukraine for geographical idiots like yourself)
have blond or light brown hair and 79% have blue or grey eyes.
now for substantial minorities of light hair:
According to Coon, 39% of Slovaks have blond, red or light brown hair.
According to Collignon, 40% of Russians have blond or light hair
Again, according to COllignon, 33% of Ukrainains have light brown or
blond hair.
Now in the countries close to the original Slav homeland, which lay
between the Carpathians and the Pripet marshes, light hair
predominates, understand IDIOT?
< Romanians were wiped
> out by the Romans and are very Latinised. >
No MORON< ROmanians were not wiped out by the ROmans. ROmanians came
from across the Danube gradually, completing their settlement of
Vallachia and Moldova by around the 11th century (Transylvania took
longer). They were originally Latinized THRAKIANS from what is now
Bulgaria who migrated north to escape the Slavs and the Bolgars. They
were later exposed to the raids of the Pechenegs (ever heard those
names MORON?)
Greeks expelled the Turks with
> force and also all the mixed Turk-Greeks, if there ever were any in
> significant numbers so what remains is an essentially pure Greece. If you
> want to find these bastardised Greeks, you have to go to Turkey where their
> descendants have been expelled to.>
Bullshit. In 1919-1923, after the faillure of the Greek government to
annex teh province of western Asia in the defunct Ottoman state,
1,300,000 Greeks were expelled from Turkey, from territories colonized
by the Ionian Greeks almost 3,000 years earlier. Accorind to Gunther,
these Greeks of Asia Minor were the least mixed among the Greeks.
Check this out for reference, that is if you can read German Kinder,
Herman and Hilgeman, Werner
Atlas zur weltgeschishte (Vol. I)
Munich, 1964
>
> Jesus Christ was sent by God and he had reddish-light-brown hair. t's that
> simple. Live with it. He was sent for the benefit of the white race for he
> was sent in the epicentre of Greek and Roman civilisations - the Middle
> East.>
HAH HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! So you're saying God has blond hair? I LOVE THE
EXPLANATION, JESUS WAS SENT BY GOD SO HE HAD BLOND HAIR
MOROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!
Now I truly have deciphered your racist rantings you fucking low life
worm piece of shit, YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE KKK OR SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN
WHITE KNIGHT ASSHOLES. What a sorry puke you are with your fairy tale
that that JEW JESUS who looked more like OSAMA BIN LADEN, actors ROY
SCHEIDER, DUSTIN HOFFMAN, JEFF GOLDBLUM etc...(REAL JEWS) was blond in
a land where people are DARK HAIRED, WITH BIG NOSES AND BLACK HAIR!
There's the source of your Nordic fantasy you piece of shit racist
fuck, you can't accept that you worship a dead Jew instead of a tall
handsome Nordic man!!!
and the epicenter of the Roman and Greek civilizations was NOT THE
MIDDLE EAST YOU SHIT FOR BRAIN KKK FAGGOT! The Middle East was the
epicenter of Assyrian, Babylonian, Phoenician, Persian, Mede, Armenian
and Turkish civilizations you HALF BREED CURLY NOSED WANNE BE NORDIC
RACIST BASTARD!
The "for teh benefit of the white race" part is truly comical you
fucking degenerate KKK punk you
> > < The majority of them may have blonde hair in some countries but
> > others have it too, including Arabs, Jews, Iranians.>
The majority of JEWS HAVE BLOND HAIR????????????????!!!!!
Oh I get it, you're one of those white supremacist BUTFFUCKER asshole
admirers of Hitler, and one of those "Nordicist" racist fantasists,
you live on Fantasy Island jerk off, not on earth!!!! Those KKK
assholes are also the ones that maintain that the original Jews were
ARYAN!!!! You sould like the other side of the coin of that racist
black supremacist asshole Farrakhan who claims all civilizations were
Black. Now an idiot like you comes along and claims everyone was blond
simply because you can't stand jerking off to a picture of a dark
Jesus instead of a blond one, what a KKK piece of shit you are!
>
> I myself went to Monash Uni in the 70s - a respected institution world wide
> and I studied Greek, Roman and Byzantine history. I don't need some
> Mongolslave from some impoverished 3rd world hell-hole, whose institutions
> aren't even worthy of 7th century Europe, to tell me about Greeks, Romans or
> whether or the quintessential Greekness of Macedonians - the tribe of Greeks
> that Hellenised the civilised world.
>
BULLSHIT, you were BUTTFUCKED by priests in some "respected
institutions" where you were inserted with faggot drunk Greeks and fat
bellied Italian grease balls who fucked you in the ass, let you suck
their dicks and made gave you serious trauma in your tiny brain to go
and seek your fantasy with the "Nordicist KKK" assholes like David
Duke. THe only respected insitution you studied in was the insitution
of prostitution where you learned to turn tricks with your abundantly
stretched asshole, like a true KKK BITCH.
Now you will probably continue to live in your degenerate Eurocentris
KKK Bullshit, WHILE YOUR MOMMA GETS IT IN THE ASS BY SOME BIG BLACK
DUDE NAMED TYRONE (oh, it's okay because he has BLOND HAIR!!!!) Fact
is you degenerate eurocentric turd with a tiny little pecker,
civilization came from Asia.
COPPER AGE CAME FROM ASIA, TEH WHEEL CAME FROM ASIA, WRITING CAME FROM
ASIA, AGRICULTURE CAME FROM ASIA, DOMESTICATION OF CATTLE, HORSES AND
PIGS (YOUR PEOPLE) CAME FROM ASIA, BRONZE CAME FROM ASIA, HORSEMANSHIP
CAME FROM ASIA, ARCHERY CAME FROM ASIA, ARMOR CAME FROM ASIA etc...
You Europcentrist pigshit, now go and jerk your tiny little pecker to
the picture of that BLOND Jesus and the blond Alexander, while you
fantasize about Greek "Nordics", while everyone knows that Greeks are
descended from Middle eastern people that came to settle the area
9,000 years ago from TURKEY
>
> An analogy which is wrong. Thracians are Greek anyway and Illyrians and
> Macedonians fought fierce battles and eventually the Macedonians forced them
> back beyond anything remotely resembling teh Hellenic world.
>
heh heh heh, and your MINDA IS WHERE THOSE "FIERCE BATTLES TOOK PLACE"
degenerate Greekocentric puke you. Yeah, and next you will tell me it
was the Greeks that marched on the moon too, and they had blond hair
too!!!!> >
> >
> >> More communist inspired lies from the eastern block.>
No JERK OFF, more FACTS that come crashing your little house of "Greek
glory" fantasy down. Alexander BUTTFUCKED GREEKS. He slaughtered a
joint Greek force in northern Greece and wiped out a joint
Theban/Argos/Athenian army with his superior phalanx. Greeks were then
BUTTFUCKED and forced to join the coalition. In your pea brain they
loved Alexander who in your own fantasy world was one of his (which
would then explain why 60,000+ GREEKS FOUGHT FOR PERSIA, including
Memnon, a respected Greek general.
Fucking lunatic, I wonder just how many thorazines are prescribed to
you anally each day to keep you from foaming at the mouth and pissing
all over yourself all the time?
> I do not give a hoot about India and other non-Greek people or the Swiss. >
I know because you are a MORON stuck in a fantasy not to mention a
RACIST PIGFUCKER
> These are useless analogies that have nothing to do with a Greek provicne
> and a well documented part of the Greek world for over 3,000 years.
> Macedonians were and are Greek and I will repeat myself to get into your
> thick Mongolslaves skull.>
heh heh heh, another KKK sinpired term, no doubt injected to you by
some fat bellied, bear burping inbred skin head who let you suck his
shrivelled dick.
I'll bet I'm more WHITE than your half breed ass, you, the product of
thousands of years of inbreeding by kinky haired Mediterranean people
who were represented as BLACK HAIRED AND BIG NOSED by Romans and
everyone around them to this day, wishing he was BLOND. What a
pathetic self hating piece of shit you are you Greek buttfucker you.
> Yeah sure Alexander lost all his battles. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That's why they
> still speak GREEK in isolated parts of northern India and Afghanistan.>
Why don't you pick uip a copy of "Alexander' by John Warry half breed
Negroind Greek? Is it because you're affraid that you'll find the
facts stated in there instead of the drivel fantasy buillshit you have
filled your ass (along with many cocks I'm sure) with?
I guessed from the start you were some degenerate bear burping fat
bellied inbred half Negro KKK Nordicist asshole who probably bleaches
his hair blond and jerks off all over a blond Jesus, convinced that he
was half Roman and not really a "dirty Jew". You KKK Greek buttfucker
Negroid featured degenerate you, you'll probably tell us next that the
Romans were NORDIC too huh?
heh heh heh, a mind is a terrible thing to lose, but in your case,
you'll never measure the loss because you never had a mind to begin
with. You know, it's okay to admit you CAN'T READ, that would
definitely excuse the fact that you haven't read A SINGLE OF THE
SOURCES I HAVE MENTIONED. Check your local library, that is if you can
manage to get out of teh cave you live in and take it in the ass each
day by some tall handsome blond haired Nordic who you desperately want
to resemble you degeenrate curly haired big nosed fella you!!!!!
sirknight67
curly haired Greek wanna be Nordic is a MORON and is one of those
Nordicist assholes, trying to get mebership into the KKK and white
supremacists by proving their "Aryan" lineage. In his case, the big
nose and curly black hair definitely will stand against him!
szo...@europe.com (a.d.danilecki) wrote in message news:<3f4f8da4.04120...@posting.google.com>...
sirknight67
you truly are a MORON!
Greeks are not indeginous to EUROPE MORON, they came to Europe from
Asia 9,000 years ago.
Second, dark hair doesn't mean non-white you degenerate kinky haired
big nosed wanne be Nordic you.
Third you jack ass, much of the mtDNA and ancestry of modern Europeans
is derived from Paleolithic people who were the stone age mammoth
hunters, only absorbed into the local population and later invaders.
Unfortunately, youare STUPID and can't figure that races have mixed
for thousands of eyars, and not exterminated each other like RACISTS
like yourself wish to do because they have a complex about their black
hair and big noses. Self hating idiot you
"Dorian West" <bitb...@ripe.net> wrote in message news:<41b33d1c$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au>...
sirknight67
light hair among them. THey have only 4%, lower than Iranians,
Spaniards, Italians etc...Greeks are among the most Brunet people of
Eurasia.
"Mark Anagnostou" <mark...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<41b2e793$0$25777$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>...
sirknight67
and praise you for your post. Your best yet
"Alborz" <inma...@gmx.at> wrote in message news:<qlGsd.69489$ha.3...@news.chello.at>...
sirknight67
it's good that a Greek is stepping forth to correct that racist peice
of shit.
I made some comments about Greeks here but only in response to the
racist anti Iranian and anti Orient/Asia comments made by that
degenerate son of a bitch who probably continaed mixed abnormal sperm
inside her prior to giving birth to that degenerate racist asshole
Nordic wanne be like Freddy Kruger.
Greeks and Iranians have a lot in common in terms of their social
mores.
Most Greeks I have known (and by the way my parents honeymooned there)
were dark, short (and this is not derogatory), with ample hair among
men, and jet black hair. There's nothing wrong with that at all, as
many Iranians are like that as well. What's wrong is the diseased
racist brain of that prick Dorian Gray KKK piece of shit who hates his
big nose and black hair and wishes he was a "Nordic", while projecting
his racist drivel all over the place.
Nasht0n <na...@na.ca> wrote in message news:<gtHsd.190707$Np3.7...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>...
sirknight67
relatives of the Greeks, physically not lingusitically, seem to be
Morrocans, Turnisans as well as some Spaniards, Portuguese and
southern French. They all belong to the same Mediterranean race that
came out of the Middle East area (Lebanon, Turkey) 10,000 years ago
and brought agriculture around that time.
triton <tri...@freenet.gr> wrote in message news:<3714200.6...@freenet.gr>...
Dorian West
trait. You're the Mongols that want to be something you're not, including
the so-called Nordic races - check to see how much Mongol genes are in
Scandinavian populations. You're the ones hung up on blonde hair - remember
Hitler, I'm just saying every white race has it in varying degrees and
Alexander the Great had it. What were Nordics compared to Mediterraneans,
but a bunch of grass hut dwellers, sea-faring thieves and pirates. Nordics
were only civilised a few hundred years ago and they make fun of Africans
who are being civilised now - what's a few hundred years difference? Ask any
Italian or Greek as to whether they would want to be Nordic or considered
Nordic and watch your face crumble into a mass of oozing pus and blood!
"sirknight67" <pema...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9eff937e.04120...@posting.google.com...
sirknight67
> There's no such thing as a "typical Greek." You say you've read Coon, yet
> you forget how he states: "The Greeks, in short, are a blend of racial
> types, of which two are most important; the Atlanto-Mediterranean and the
> Alpine."
I did read Coon jack ass and unlike you I do not base all my
information on one source. But since you are a moron, let me explain
it you like I did with the other Greek idiot here:
If you had read my earlier post MORON I mentioned the Armenoid people
(admited as relatives of Alpines by COon) who brought the Bronze and
Copper Age to Europe, into the Dianaric Alps via Turkey also
constituted a part of the early Greek population, In fact, the
cephalic index map shows high indexes that betray Armenoid and Alpine
presence. Now if you weren't stupid, with a racist Greek agenda, you'd
have noticed that instead of barking.
>
> That's not true, either. Nordicism was never strong or all-pervading in
> ancient Greece, but this does not mean it never existed. It was a weak
> element in the sub-racial types in Greece, just as it is a weak element in
> today's Greece, but it still existed then as it still exists now.>
MORON, if you understood English, you would realize that when I say
"THEY" it meaans as a nation, not as individuals. Against since
your'fe fucking stupid and cannot read, go and read my earlier posts,
especially when I said that "blond hair was first represented on Crete
around 3,600 years, the approximate date of entry of the early Greeks
into the region". What that means MORON is that prior to the
Indo-European Greek element that invaded the land of the so-called
Pelasgians, there was no such physical type and that it entered Greece
and Crete with the INdo-Europeans, understand MORON?
>
> This must be one of the Top 10 Most Stupidest Claims I've ever read.
> Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if we were to discover that you are some
> Afrocentrist with an agenda to make Greece, Egypt, Persia, and Rome all
> "black civilizations that the white man stole".
That's because you're one of the top ten IDIOTS that have ever entered
into a discussion into this group. Since you have a half a brain (that
half seems deficient though), let me explain MORON that Khoisanid
people where the earliest people. As such, the earliest skeletons of
ANATOMICALLY MODERN HUMAN HOMO SAPIENS (not to be confused with
homosexual like you) were of the Bushmen type. Their skeletons have
been found at LAUSSEL and COMBE CAPELLE in souther France, and
GRIMALDI in Italy, as well as Crete and Malta MORON. Now this is
common knowledge, as Boule pointed out. Since you mention Coon, read
his comments about the men of Combe Capelle and how they fit into an
"Ethiopian" physical type according to him. You can research that on
the internet, just enter "Schliemann" and you will see sites come up,
discussing the early prehistory of the Mediterranean, including Crete.
When the first members of the Mediterranean race entered Crete and
Malta, they encoutered Bushmen.
Around 10,000 years ago, and this is backed by Cavalli-Sforzza,
Bushmen lived as far north in Africa as the Nile Delta, and as far
East as Somalia. In fact, research on their genetic composition shows
that they may have mixed at a very remote time in prehistory, with
members of the Caucasian race (mediterraneans in particular) around
the region of the Arabian Peninsula.
Now MORON, since you obviously don't know jack shit about history or
prehistory, or anthropology for that matter, let me educate you MORON.
The first people that came out of Africa into Asia were in fact BLACK
SKINNED. Their descendants are the various Negrito groups that still
inhabit the various forests of Asia.
And just to prove how STUPID you are MORON, like your Buttbuddy that
other Greek idiot who accuses me of being a COmmunist (!), I am a
White Iranian from Northern Iran where people are very fair compared
to the rest of the Iranian population, born with blond hair. My mother
is white and blond and my entire father's familly is blond or red
haired. So guess what, not much of an Afro centrist in me you MORON. I
guess your stupid attempts to depict me as an Afrocentrist or
communist prove that you are indeed a MORON with no clue or argument>
> This proves that you know nothing about history. Combined with your
> ignorance of physical anthropology of the ancient (and modern) Greeks this
> makes you an authority on absolutely nothing you are talking about.
>
Really jerk off? Other than the degree I hold in history from UCLA
perhaps?
Jerk off, you are as much an authority on history and anthropology as
your asshole is virgin.>
> Yeah, this *definitely* makes you sound like a respectable authority on
> history (please note the sarcasm...).
Yeah, I figutred you would stick to a source that has been disproved
and loudly laughed at by historians such as Cuyler Young, Peter
Barkworth and J. Cook right? It must be a part of your nationality to
lie...and understandbly so, to inflate your achievements, The
exagerations of Herodotus are being laughed at while a group of
degenerate asshole Greek supremacists like your asshole self still
hangs on to those "statistics" generally agreed to have been
exagerated by a factor of ten. You are MORON, a LIAR and an UNEDCUATED
IMBECILE (notice the straightforwardness)
> Don't worry. You've all given us a LOT to laugh about yourself. And also a
> lot to pity.
>
> -Adeimantos
Yeah , no sources no arguments, nothing other than the douche bag that
spews out of your lying sack of shit Greek mouth to compensate like
your racist idiot submoron pal Dorian. Try applying back to the high
school that kicked you why don't you, it will definitely prevent kids
from laughing at your tired ass because they know more than your
ignorant ass.
PS:
definitely take some history course, you might even like what you
learn!
Dorian West
> light hair among them. THey have only 4%, lower than Iranians,
> Spaniards, Italians etc...Greeks are among the most Brunet people of
> Eurasia.
Well I don't think this is true, especially with Iranians, Spaniards and
Italians especially southerners and I live with these people over here. I
can constantly see with my eyes what they look like. These statistics are
not by an anthropologist moron - you fucking liar! My Irish girl-friend
travelled Italy from Sicily to Lombardy as well as Greece from Crete to
Macedonia and I can tell you that you are lying to suit your agenda of
land-grabbing.
I also saw Iran play Australia and they just looked like rag-heads to me -
plain and simple. Not some blonde Aryan race stuck out in the desert.
Dorian West
How do you fucking know when blondism was imported to Greece moron?
Blondism, like brunettism in populations, especially Causcasian, is a
mutation. In a pure blonde and thereroe genetically homgenous population
there is a 1,000,000 to 2,500,000 to 1 chance of a brunette mutation, more
if there is a suitable climate change - from cooler to hotter. What are you
going to tell this brunette - that he was imported, when in fact he's as
pure as the blondes? Shove that in your pipe and smoke it.
>>
>> This must be one of the Top 10 Most Stupidest Claims I've ever read.
>> Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if we were to discover that you are some
>> Afrocentrist with an agenda to make Greece, Egypt, Persia, and Rome all
>> "black civilizations that the white man stole".
>
>
> That's because you're one of the top ten IDIOTS that have ever entered
> into a discussion into this group. Since you have a half a brain (that
> half seems deficient though), let me explain MORON that Khoisanid
> people where the earliest people. As such, the earliest skeletons of
> ANATOMICALLY MODERN HUMAN HOMO SAPIENS (not to be confused with
> homosexual like you) were of the Bushmen type. Their skeletons have
> been found at LAUSSEL and COMBE CAPELLE in souther France, and
> GRIMALDI in Italy, as well as Crete and Malta MORON. Now this is
> common knowledge, as Boule pointed out. Since you mention Coon, read
> his comments about the men of Combe Capelle and how they fit into an
> "Ethiopian" physical type according to him. You can research that on
Yes, Mongolslave or rag-head or which ever. We hereby acknowledge your
knowledge of your "friends" the Greeks. Greeks are Ethiopians and it shows.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! - Sanford University.
"HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks"
Finally, Stanford University sent this alleged research exactly where it
belongs, IN A DUMPSTER!!!
Dropped genetics paper lacked scientific merit
Nature 415, 115 (10 January 2002) © Macmillan Publishers Ltd. Sir
They used a single genetic marker, HLA DRB1, for their analysis to construct
a genealogical tree and map of 28 populations from Europe, the Middle East,
Africa and Japan. Using results from the analysis of a single marker,
particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of
reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in
population genetics.
The limitations are made evident by the authors' extraordinary observations
that Greeks are very similar to Ethiopians and east Africans but very
distant from other south Europeans; and that the Japanese are nearly
identical to west and south Africans. It is surprising that the authors were
not puzzled by these anomalous results, which contradict history, geography,
anthropology and all prior population-genetic studies of these groups.
Surely the ordinary process of refereeing would have saved the field from
this dispute. We believe that the paper should have been refused for
publication on the simple grounds that it lacked scientific merit. Neil
Risch
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of
Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA Alberto Piazza
Department of Genetics, Biology and Biochemistry,
University of Torino, Via Santena 19, 10126 Torino, Italy L. Luca
Cavalli-Sforza
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of
Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA
> the internet, just enter "Schliemann" and you will see sites come up,
> discussing the early prehistory of the Mediterranean, including Crete.
> When the first members of the Mediterranean race entered Crete and
> Malta, they encoutered Bushmen.
> Around 10,000 years ago, and this is backed by Cavalli-Sforzza,
> Bushmen lived as far north in Africa as the Nile Delta, and as far
> East as Somalia. In fact, research on their genetic composition shows
> that they may have mixed at a very remote time in prehistory, with
> members of the Caucasian race (mediterraneans in particular) around
> the region of the Arabian Peninsula.
>
> Now MORON, since you obviously don't know jack shit about history or
> prehistory, or anthropology for that matter, let me educate you MORON.
> The first people that came out of Africa into Asia were in fact BLACK
> SKINNED. Their descendants are the various Negrito groups that still
> inhabit the various forests of Asia.
Bullshit moron. That Darwinian THEORY is based on postulation and is
designed to keep inferior races like Perisians, Mongols and Slaves down.
> And just to prove how STUPID you are MORON, like your Buttbuddy that
> other Greek idiot who accuses me of being a COmmunist (!), I am a
> White Iranian from Northern Iran where people are very fair compared
> to the rest of the Iranian population, born with blond hair. My mother
> is white and blond and my entire father's familly is blond or red
> haired. So guess what, not much of an Afro centrist in me you MORON. I
> guess your stupid attempts to depict me as an Afrocentrist or
> communist prove that you are indeed a MORON with no clue or argument>
BULLSHIT MORON!!! Iranians are rag-heads. Oliver Stone said so, didn't he?
Alexander's Persian bride was a Negro. That about sums you up according to
the eminent historian Robin Fox Lane.
>
>> This proves that you know nothing about history. Combined with your
>> ignorance of physical anthropology of the ancient (and modern) Greeks
>> this
>> makes you an authority on absolutely nothing you are talking about.
>>
>
> Really jerk off? Other than the degree I hold in history from UCLA
> perhaps?
> Jerk off, you are as much an authority on history and anthropology as
> your asshole is virgin.>
So fucking what??? I went to Monash Uni in the 70s and studied history,
philosophy and anthropology. BTW, your Asian "achievements" weren't even
mentioned in a single instance. See Sanford University's understanding of
your "studies", above.
>
>> Yeah, this *definitely* makes you sound like a respectable authority on
>> history (please note the sarcasm...).
>
> Yeah, I figutred you would stick to a source that has been disproved
> and loudly laughed at by historians such as Cuyler Young, Peter
> Barkworth and J. Cook right? It must be a part of your nationality to
> lie...and understandbly so, to inflate your achievements, The
What are your achievements sand-nigger or rag-head or Mongolslave? Tell us
about your achievements. HAHAHAHAHA!!!
> exagerations of Herodotus are being laughed at while a group of
> degenerate asshole Greek supremacists like your asshole self still
> hangs on to those "statistics" generally agreed to have been
> exagerated by a factor of ten. You are MORON, a LIAR and an UNEDCUATED
> IMBECILE (notice the straightforwardness)
>
>
>> Don't worry. You've all given us a LOT to laugh about yourself. And
>> also a
>> lot to pity.
>>
>> -Adeimantos
>
> Yeah , no sources no arguments, nothing other than the douche bag that
> spews out of your lying sack of shit Greek mouth to compensate like
What are your sources other than the entrails of the sheep and goats that
graze around your nomadic tent? BTW, be sure not to go out in the desert
sun, blondes get sunburnt on top of their heads.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Dorian West
racia" when they talk about the Greeks? Is that why northern Italians
ridicule the southerners as "not part of the white-race" and take pride in
their Greek-Etruscan heritage, both culturally and genetically?
You fucking Mongolslaves still have the triangle-heads, the high-cheekbones
and the dark Gypsy looks that set you apart from Europeans in general.
Face it you sand-nigger Mongols are what you always were - LOSERS! And I
wouldn't have it any other way. Letting you hold the reins of power is like
letting Dracula run the blood-bank.
"sirknight67" <pema...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9eff937e.0412...@posting.google.com...
Dorian West
Inferior is what you rag-headed Mongols are. You can post nothing, because
all you speak is lies, like a good loser trying to be accepted in the
white-man's world. Know this, the white man will always hate you as you're
too different, savage and brutal.
Dorian West
for you savage weakling races of the Middle-East. Now, in the Greeks stead,
will come the Americans. Be happy that Europeans, south and north choose to
civilise you.
From Plutarch:
"But if you consider the effects of Alexander's instruction, you will see
that he educated the Hyrcanians to contract marriages, taught the
Arachosians to till the soil , and persuaded the Sogdians to support their
parents, not to kill them, and the Persians to respect their mothers, not to
marry them. Most admirable philosophy, which induced the Indians to worship
Greek gods, and the Scythians to bury their dead and not to eat them!"
"sirknight67" <pema...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9eff937e.04120...@posting.google.com...
> Here are my two cents on this issue, although I have not seen the ovie
> and do not plan to see it because from what I heard form my second
> cousin, it is silly and at times offensive. I don't need to be asked
> to leave by the usher, and the usher doesn't need to get his jaw wired
Insane ramble SNIPPED. PS. why don't you come over and wire my jaw??? Bloody
coward, I would just slaughter you if you tried anything.
Jason K. Lambrou
Λοοκ
Look here vre Muhammed or what ever you want to call yourself,do us all
a fovor and go beat yourself with some chains like all your brothers and
stop your racist posts
Jason K. Lambrou
> "Adeimantos" <adeim...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<jTIsd.2458$Zo.2066@lakeread07>...
>
>>"sirknight67" <pema...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:9eff937e.04120...@posting.google.com...
>
>
>
>
>>There's no such thing as a "typical Greek." You say you've read Coon, yet
>>you forget how he states: "The Greeks, in short, are a blend of racial
>>types, of which two are most important; the Atlanto-Mediterranean and the
>>Alpine."
>
hey persian boy got tired of being called sand nigger by Europeans.All
the iranians I have seen look like hooknosed Arabs.Nothing to be ashamed
of,the conquered you changed your alphabet your religion and screwed all
you women, then the mongols came and gave you high cheekbone.Go back to
UCLA and study with a mullah and then beat yourself with a new set of
chains.Face it Muhammed you are an islamic idiot and all the
anthropological studie you take mean shit,you are still 600 years behind.
Color of hair or skin means shit, if your fucking mind is steeped in
degenerate islamic dogma.
Dorian West
"Jason K. Lambrou" <jkl...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:zFZsd.20754$Yh2.8...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
I just remembered the only Iranian I ever met personally was named, funnily
or ironically enough Alex. He was nice enough, but as to his phenotype, well
did you see the American abuse of Iraqi prisoners? That was him -
brown-skinned with black curly Negroid hair. I guess there's no stopping
those Yanks now? BTW, I also worked with a REAL PERSIAN - a Zoroastrian who
said he detests the Muslim invaders of Persia for they expelled his race to
west India where some maharaja gave them sanctuary. Funnily enough, he
respects his Greek conqueror, Alexander as "they didn't destroy us like the
Muslims".
Raj Kapoor
> bravo, you show you know what you are talking about. That degeenrate
> curly haired Greek wanna be Nordic is a MORON and is one of those
> Nordicist assholes, trying to get mebership into the KKK and white
> supremacists by proving their "Aryan" lineage. In his case, the big
> nose and curly black hair definitely will stand against him!
No. No worry. We'll never take him in to our KKK organization.
--
Alborz
"Jason K. Lambrou" <jkl...@nyc.rr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:HqOsd.20731$Yh2.8...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Alborz
maybe if Alexander was alive today , he was a Turk.
Mustafa Kamal is closer to Alexander as every greek leader.
"Jason K. Lambrou" <jkl...@nyc.rr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:HqOsd.20731$Yh2.8...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Mark Anagnostou
world.
I know when i was last in Greece i was shocked at how tall all the
youngsters were.
I felt like a dwarf in Greece,at 5 11.
Felt the same in Germany Holland Denmark.Felt my old self again in England
Italy
and France.
I live in Australia,and my freinds are mixed.Italians Greeks and a mix of
slavs.
Generally the Crows and Serbs are a little taller then the Greeks,the
Italians are a fair bit shorter then
us and people from FYrom a little shorter then us too.
As for the Iranian guy saying only 4% of Greeks are blonde.BULLSHIT.
I know so many Greek Blondes EG my ex,my brothers wife,my brothers kids,3
first cousins
and numerouse freinds and relatives.
P.S when i have kids i hope they are not blonde fair skinned but brown
haired and olive complextioned.
Much better looking in all honesty and more practical too.
Adeimantos
made clearly established your intellectual deficiency? Seems redundant to
me.
As for your "counter-claims" in your post to me, I didn't pay much attention
to them either, really. After you made so many errors (historical and
anthropological) in your last post, and after you compounded this lack of
education with hysterics, and then after you *once again* starting wailing
like a little girl, well, you can't really expect me -- or anyone else -- to
take you that seriously, can you? The message that took you probably two
hours to write, along with a few bottles of sedatives to keep you from
suffering a cerebrovascular accident during your outburst, I skimmed through
in just under a 30 seconds.
As for holding a degree, you are right there: you hold a degree of
heightened stupidity coupled with acute hysteria that no other individual
who has ever posted in soc.culture.greek has ever held before.
Congratulations, and hope that community college thing works out for you.
-Adeimantos
Dorian West
> Any one know of any height comparisons between different peoples of the
> world.
> I know when i was last in Greece i was shocked at how tall all the
> youngsters were.
> I felt like a dwarf in Greece,at 5 11.
> Felt the same in Germany Holland Denmark.Felt my old self again in England
> Italy
> and France.
> I live in Australia,and my freinds are mixed.Italians Greeks and a mix of
> slavs.
> Generally the Crows and Serbs are a little taller then the Greeks,the
> Italians are a fair bit shorter then
Montenegrans and then Cretans are the tallest people in Europe. Those Slaves
you muck around with should be taller than you. Italians are very short, I
don't know why, maybe too much pasta and not enough protein?
> us and people from FYrom a little shorter then us too.
FYROMs are Mongolslave dwarfs even though all they eat is pigfat and
petrol - the typical Slave diet.
> As for the Iranian guy saying only 4% of Greeks are blonde.BULLSHIT.
> I know so many Greek Blondes EG my ex,my brothers wife,my brothers kids,3
> first cousins
> and numerouse freinds and relatives.
> P.S when i have kids i hope they are not blonde fair skinned but brown
> haired and olive complextioned.
> Much better looking in all honesty and more practical too.
Brown is the most common colour from Greece into Britain and central
Germany. They only argue against blondism as they wish to claim Alexander as
their own. Didn't you see the pathetic claims of that Iranian, saying he and
his family was blonde??? Laughable really. If they were it would be due to
Grecian or Roman blood that made its way there. He was squealing like a
stuck pig.
Dorian West
> "Dorian West" <bitb...@ripe.net> wrote in message
>
> "Dorian West" <bitb...@ripe.net> wrote in message
> news:<41b2...@dnews.tpgi.com.au>...
>> "sirknight67" <pema...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> OK JERK OFF since you keep insisting on publicly showing your utter
> babbling stupidity, let me approach you the way a Mongo along your IQ
> level is approached.
>
>> I don't have a hard time accepting reality. Like I said before blondism
>> is
>> not monopolised by Nordics. Here is a mosaic done by Greeks about
>> Alexander,
>> not Italians, hundreds of years later in a Byzantine icon style where all
>> Greeks and Italians look like south Indians.
>> http://www.livius.org/a/1/alexander/alexander_craterus.jpg As you can
>> see,
>> he has fair hair.
>
> Look MONGO, what part of NORDICS ARE BLOND, BLOND NORDICS INVADED IRAN
> 4,000 YEARS AGO, AND THOSE PARTLY BLOND OR LIGHT EYED IRANIANS TODAY
> ARE DESCENDED FROM BLOND NORDICS OF 4,000 YEARS AGO MIXED INTO THE
> LOCAL POPULATION. Are you that fucking stupid?
Sure rag-head, sure. Whatever you say Mr. Nordic. Is saw mass Iranians in
Denmark and it looked like flies on milk.
>>
>> WRONG is you. I work with 6 Greeks in a large telecommunications company
>> and
>> 1 is blonde, 1 is red-auburn, 2 brown and 2 black haired. >
>
> Bullshit, first of all you don't have a job, second, sitting around
> and counting a couple of degenerates that turn tricks on the same
> street corner as you doesn't account for different regions etc... get
> it?
>
> <In my previous job at the Anglo-Persian oil company there were 10
> with 2 blonde, 4 brown and 4 black haired.>
>
> At this point, I don't even give a shit about the statistics of how
> many blond vs how many black haired individuals you've blown and
> swallowed. My concern now is that you are a fucking degenerate that
> worked for the Anglo-Iranian oil company, a fucking parasitic
> colonialist entity that cheated Iran out of its rightful 16%, typical
> of the LImie bastards that you served. At this point, FUCK you and
> your job working for that leach of a company that set the stage for
> the impoverishment of Iranians, for the 1953 hijacking of the elected
> Mossadegh by the MI6 terrorists and their CIA butt buddies.
I was just waffling until I found the right thing to say and yes, the
Anglo-Persian Oil Company loves me very much as it paid me quite well. I
never questioned its behaviour until later and now I don't think I'd bother
questioning it anymore.
>
> <And I am talking natural blonde. So we have 3/16 having fair
>> hair, which is even more than my alleged 10-15%, it's 19%. >
>
> Fuck you and your alleged 19% how's that you wanne be blond? Greeks
> are BLACK HAIRED, SWARTHY, HOOK NOSED MEDITERRANEANS similar to Turks
> and Lebanese. Havea hard time admitting that? Because you're self
> hating and try to pass as European that's why.
It's not wannabe, it's just the way it is. You're a rag-head and you should
be proud of that. God made you in that fashion to express your
individuality.
> <here will be
>> cases where it will even itself out though.You need to really brush up on
>> statistics. If 1 in 10 marbles is white, the others black, what's the
>> probability 10 drawn in sequence with replacement are black? Answer:
>> 0.348.
>>
>
> My statistics are collected from a dozen anthropologists ranging from
> Fisher, Gunther, Denniker, Coon, Ripley, COllignon and others. Your
> statistics were collected while you were deciding which finger to use
> to pick your big hooked Greek nose.
Sure, they are, sure. Failed Nordicists who are only angry and jealous that
Greeks and Romans were creatinhg high civilisation and never bothered to
tell them about it until 3,000 years later. At least they told the Persians.
You should be happy and grateful. Looks like it didn't do much good though.
>
>> The statistic of above, the statistic of me travelling to Greece 5 time
>> since 1982.>
>
> So asshole, basically you're saying that because you went to Greece 5
> times, and blew a half a dozen people, and figured who had blond hair
> on his balls, you think now you know more than a century and a half of
> data collected on 70-80,000 people? You really are a fucking moron.
>
>
>
>> WRONG AGAIN. He was a pure Greek and I now see your agenda and I will
>> treat
>> you accordingly.>
>
> Agenda? Which agenda you fucking turd burglarizing Greek fuck trying
> to pass as Blond German? THere are MORE BLOND IRANIANS THAN GREEKS
> JERK OFF, and that's in spite of the fact that tens of thousands of
Of course there are. Mr-I-don't-have-a-hangup-about-blondism.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
> Salvs were brought in since the 8th century to insert their genetic
> material into your female ancestors to make them less uggly.
> Guess what mongo, according to Chantres and Ripley, about 30% of
> Ossetes (descendants of Iranian Alans), as well as more than a third
> of people living in the Badakhshan dsitrict of northern Afghanistan
> and Tajikistan have blond hair, which shows that the original Iranian
> nomads were of that physical type, and this was backed by Pliny,
> Plutarch and Marcellinus. As for your UGLLY ass half breed Alexander,
> he was 5'2", had a big wet nose like Osama Bin Ladin, dark skin and
> curly black hair. What the fuck is your problem you racist fuck, you
> ahve something against people of the Mediterranean physical type that
> you keep projecting your "Nordic" ideal fantasy on that buttfucker?
The Mediterranean physical type is not the SEMITIC which you described and
which you are a part of you sand-nigger, terrorist piece of Muslim shit.
Mediterraneans are very beautiful and handsome and the "Greek nose" is an
ideal of beauty and symmetry in stark contrast to the hook-nosed desert
dwellers of western Asia.
>>
>> Slavs have not left any genetic imprint on Greece as Slavs are a Mongol
>> race
>> with high cheekbones and slant-eyes. >
>
> You trully are a degenerate submoron jerk off. Slavs are a "Mongol
> race" WRONG IDIOT, Slavs are teh direct descendants of the Lausitz
> culture, part of the INdo-European "Urnfield cultures of the Bronze
> age. As such, and ai suggest you read up on this, according to Carlton
> Coon, the Slavs, from the Poliani, to the Kashubs, Czeks, Podolians,
> Volhynians etc...until the 7th century were a dolichocephalic or
> mesocephalic people whose anthropometric data and foresnsinc
> measurements on body proportions, skull etc...were a NORDIC PEOPLE
> related to the early Balts, Germanic tribes etc...
Funny, how I just came back from a Serb's house where I was forced to watch
beautiful Slav women singing. 90% looked Mongoloid - slanted eyes and high
cheekbones. Get another degree, this 1 has failed you miserably.
> Only after the Mongol invasions of Russia have Slavs begun to increase
> their Cephalic index towards 82 in Russia and Belarus. As for the
> Czeks and Slovaks, they are a mixture called NORIC, which is a mixture
> of Nordic INdo-Europeans with the so-called broadheaded Alpine race
> that is a survivor frmo the Mesolithic "Lake dwellings" cultures. The
> "Ice man" found in Austria fit that category.
> Mongoloid blood has only seeped into Slavs in significan proportion
> after Muscovy, Vladimir Suzdal, Novgorod and other Russian
> principalties started their expandion into the forest belts where the
> Finno-Ugrian tribes dwelt, and after the 13th century after the Mongol
> invasions.
> GOes to show you don't know JACK SHIT about either anthropology,
> history, geography or any thing else for that matter and you're just
> trolling here.
>
> <Slavs were never conquerors of Greece and never a warrior race like
> the Greeks.>
>
> That's a truly laughable and RACIST statement, coming from a pan gree
> asshole such as yourself. If you had any brain cells, you could read a
> fucking map, showing that what is now Yugoslavia was once a Byzantine
> province, settled since the 6th century by Slavs coming from the
> Pripet marshes. The influx of Slavs into teh Balkans and later
There are things called borders and Yugoslavs settled in the periphery of
civilised Europe.
Fuck off moron. None of the Greeks mixed because when they did, if they did,
they were labelled as "Turks" by the Greeks and expelled along with their
co-religionists. Why would a Greek or any European mix with a dirty,
un-washed, smelly rag-head like you???
READ FUCKING ENGLISH MORON. I SAID "OTHERS HAVE IT TOO" MEANING NOT THE
MAJORITY. AS FAR AS I KNOW SCANDINAVIANS AND FINNS HAVE IT A MAJORITY AND
THEY CONTRIBUTED AS MUCH TO CIVILISATION AS YOU RAG-HEADS.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
No documention on this and according to Walt Disney, the wheel came from
Greece. Sumerians were in Asia, but were a white race that migrated to
Greece and Italy leaving the rag-heads behind.
I only eat pork not like rag-heads who have feelings of cannibalism when
they are forced to eat it.
>
>> These are useless analogies that have nothing to do with a Greek provicne
>> and a well documented part of the Greek world for over 3,000 years.
>> Macedonians were and are Greek and I will repeat myself to get into your
>> thick Mongolslaves skull.>
>
> heh heh heh, another KKK sinpired term, no doubt injected to you by
> some fat bellied, bear burping inbred skin head who let you suck his
> shrivelled dick.
> I'll bet I'm more WHITE than your half breed ass, you, the product of
> thousands of years of inbreeding by kinky haired Mediterranean people
> who were represented as BLACK HAIRED AND BIG NOSED by Romans and
> everyone around them to this day, wishing he was BLOND. What a
> pathetic self hating piece of shit you are you Greek buttfucker you.
>
>
>> Yeah sure Alexander lost all his battles. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That's why they
>> still speak GREEK in isolated parts of northern India and Afghanistan.>
>
>
> Why don't you pick uip a copy of "Alexander' by John Warry half breed
> Negroind Greek? Is it because you're affraid that you'll find the
> facts stated in there instead of the drivel fantasy buillshit you have
> filled your ass (along with many cocks I'm sure) with?
>
> I guessed from the start you were some degenerate bear burping fat
> bellied inbred half Negro KKK Nordicist asshole who probably bleaches
> his hair blond and jerks off all over a blond Jesus, convinced that he
> was half Roman and not really a "dirty Jew". You KKK Greek buttfucker
> Negroid featured degenerate you, you'll probably tell us next that the
> Romans were NORDIC too huh?
Greek and Roman blondism is not Nordic moron fucktard. There is a concept
called "MUTATION" in biology, so those Mediterraneans that have blondism
have it as the result of MUTATION. You can tell by looking at the facial
features. So shove you blonde Nordics in your shitty rag-head arse.
> heh heh heh, a mind is a terrible thing to lose, but in your case,
> you'll never measure the loss because you never had a mind to begin
> with. You know, it's okay to admit you CAN'T READ, that would
> definitely excuse the fact that you haven't read A SINGLE OF THE
> SOURCES I HAVE MENTIONED. Check your local library, that is if you can
> manage to get out of teh cave you live in and take it in the ass each
> day by some tall handsome blond haired Nordic who you desperately want
> to resemble you degeenrate curly haired big nosed fella you!!!!!
I think being part of a totally inferior non-white race has made you a
wannabe "Nordic who you desperately want to resemble you degenerate curly
haired big nosed haired big nosed fella you!!!!!" Losers like you are a
dime a dozen, you probably beat your wife and beg when you see a European.
Freedom Fighter
"wannabbe whites" often dye their hair light brown and get blue/green eye
contacts. Many also abandon Islam and try to adopt Greek, Italian, and
Spanish surnames in hope that they can pass themselves off as Medittaranean
Whites.
Check these pictures out and you'll see that Stone wasn't far off the mark
in his portrayal of Persians.
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=163997
I suggest you embrace your culture and leave the Europeans alone. As for
Alexander, the fact that you Asians came to a European country and stole its
sacred statues, is more than enough reason for annihilating your
tent-dwelling nomadic empire. As an analogy, how would Iranians feel today
if the Greeks came to Tehran, burned down your mosques and stole their
treasures? Would anyone in the world defend this action and deny you the
right to revenge? I think not. So don't complain what Greeks did to you over
2,300 years ago when people were more pious and religious and superstitious.
"sirknight67" <pema...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9eff937e.04120...@posting.google.com...
> Here are my two cents on this issue, although I have not seen the ovie
> and do not plan to see it because from what I heard form my second
> cousin, it is silly and at times offensive. I don't need to be asked
> to leave by the usher, and the usher doesn't need to get his jaw wired
> ;-)
>
> 1) about the Nordicism of ancient Greeks. There are many
> antrhopologists, including two that I can think of right now including
> Carlton Coon and Ripley who refuted the myth of Greek Nordicism. In
> fact, according to anthropologists like Fisher who was famous for his
> study of pigmentation among european and west Asian and NOrth African
> populations, the Greeks only have 4% LIGHT HAIR!!!
> 96% of Greeks have black or dark brown hair and the skin is generally
> dar.
> Some may remember a would be presidential candidate years ago, named
> Dukakis. He was the typical Greek: Dark, short, big nosed with curly
> or wavy black hair.
>
> The depiction of characters such as Alexander and Jesus in Hollywood
> as blonde and blue eyes merely reflects the obsession that America has
> with blond hair. In no country I have visited in my life have I seen
> such a high rate of fake blonds and pathetically cheesy bleached
> blondes as in America. The obession wtih blond hair also comes from a
> deeply inbeded racism that cannot fathom the "hero" of the story that
> the Americans claim from a eurocentric view as one "of their own" to
> look different, especially like the very people they are made to
> despise in the movie, the villains so to speak.
> Charlton Heston was made to play Moses, Willem Dafoe Jesus of Nazareth
> and now this fucking Iraish Mic with his cheesy Irish accent and his
> bleached blond hair, not even his own!!!
>
> According to various anthropological data I have collected over the
> years (for those of you itnerested I have an extensive bibliography),
> the Greeks are not nor have they ever been "Nordic". The prehistoric
> inhabitants of the islands were Capoid, meaning they were related to
> the Bushmen of south Africa and in fact much of southern Europe was
> once inhabited by Bushmen.
> When the first agriculturalists arrived from western Asia or the
> "Middle East" as Americans call teh region about 9,000 years ago, they
> encoutered this hunter-gatherer population. By the time Crete was
> settled and the first art work appeared there around 5,000-7,000 years
> ago, there were still Bushmen tehre, as there were in nearby Egypt.
> The earliest inhabitants of Greece were of the so-called
> "Mediterranean" type also called Ibero-Insular by Denniker. This type
> originated in western Asia and spread with the Neolithic revolution
> throughout much of southern Europe as well as teh British Isles. The
> height was generally short to medium, the hair black and curly or
> wavy, the eyes dark and the skin tawny,like the modern Greeks,
> southern Italians, southern French, Portuguese etc...and
> dolichocephalic, meaning long headed or long skulled.
>
> Around the time of the Bronze Age (which occured later in Europe than
> it did in Asia), around 4,000 years ago, a new type entered Greece
> from the east again, and this type is called Armenoid/Dinaric. It is
> strongly present among northern Iranians, the people of the Caucasus,
> Syrians, Yugoslavs and Austrians. It is generally taller than average,
> round headed (bracycehpalic), fair skinned with black hair and usually
> dark or mixed eyes. This type established itself in the Dinaric Alps
> and eventually spread the culture of the "bell beakers" in northern
> Europe.
>
> When the INdo-Europeans entered Greece around 4,000+ years ago, they
> were already very mixed racially. Most of Greece was until then long
> headed and of the Mediterranean type. Anthropologist and archeologists
> have noticed that the bracycephalic people (broad skulls) entered
> Greece mostly at the time the Indo-Europeans entered the region. This
> is odd because the Nordic race usually associated wtih Indo-European
> natives is tall and LONG headed or mesocehalic.
> The first blondes do appear on paintings in Crete around 3,600 which
> means that the first Indo-Europeans who came and replaced the native
> "Pelasgians" arrived around that time.
> Most of the ancient Greek statues however depict a predominatnly broad
> skulled people, suggesting that this was an "ideal" type associated
> with the newcomers or teh ruling class.
>
> When the ROman historians like Pliny, Tacitus and Amminianus made
> notes on the physical appearance of foreigners and non-ROmans in their
> known world, they noted the Germans, Celts and Iranian Sarmatians as
> tall, robust, blond or red haired and muscular. This was the original
> Indo-European type. Such comments were NEVER made about Greeks.
> In fact, one merely has to look at the so-called "Alexander Mosaic"
> and its replica, such as the one found at Pompei, to see that
> Alexander was in fact very Mediterranean in appearance: He had black
> hair (not even brown), a large fleshy nose like modern Greeks and
> Turks, and a very thin, longish face, typical of mediterranean people
> and not Nordic at all. His skin was copper or tanwy and not pinkish
> like Nordicss and it was claimed that his height was a mere 5'2", a
> far cry from the Nordic 6" which Darius the Great of Persia however
> (not Dariush III who fought Alexander) approximated more.
>
> 2)Alexander was a MACEDONIAN, not a Greek. What is a Macedonian? In
> ancient terms, Macedonians were similar to modern Swiss, they were a
> collection of people that included a small minority of Greeks whose
> upper class was admited at the Greek games (known to us as the
> Olympics). The majority of the population however was not Greek. There
> were Illyrians, related in language to the people of Albania (this
> INdo-European speech once spread as far north as modern Slovenia and
> northeast Italy) and Thrakians whose only modern relatives in speech
> today are Armenians.
>
> 3) This was NEVER a fight between Greeks and Persians. Alexander's
> army contained about 25% Greeks from mainland Greece. Many of his
> troops were non Greeks including the famous Agrianes, who were
> Thrakians and acted as "Peltasts" or light armed javelin throwers, as
> well as Illyrian cavalrymen.
>
> In fact, there were MORE GREEKS SERVING IN THE PERSIAN ARMY as there
> were Greeks serving with Alexander.
> After the first engagment at the Granicus River, most of the infantry
> serving in the army of the Persians were Greeks, led by a Greek
> general named Memnon. After teh Persian cavalry retreated, these heavy
> infantry Hoplites were left isolated on a hill and received no
> quarter. There were about 8,000 of them and they were surrounded and
> killed almost to a man. 2,000 survivors were chained and sold as
> slaves because they were considered traitors to the "Greek cause".
> It is interesting however that many Greek states wthat had not been
> reduced to servitued by ALexander, such as Laconia (meaning Sparta and
> the region surrounding it) did not join in this so-called "Greek
> cause".
> In fact, when Alexander marched towards the Levant, many of his
> garrisons were attacked in Greece.
> There may have been some 60,000 Greek mercenary troops in the Persian
> army of Dariush as a whole. Alexander had a total of 45-50,000 troops,
> including over half that were not even Greek but Illyrian and
> Thrakian.
>
> Greek troops that were captured were in most instances savagely
> treated and thousands wer chained and sold as slaves, like Memnon's
> men and were shown no pity,not even to their famillies.
>
> 4)As far as the role of Roxanne being filled by a Negroid, I find that
> completely absurd. As it has often been pointed out, the original
> Persians and Medes who settled Iran before mixing with the darker
> skinned natives who are now mixed in the general Iranian population,
> were an Indo-European, blond or red haired people. There are sections
> of wall paintings from Shush now in the Louvres, of which I have
> eprsonal photographs, that depict many Iranian warriors with blond or
> light hair, with green or blue eyes. Many Iranians in the northern
> provinces of Gilan, Azarbaijan and Kermanshah have that appearnce even
> today, including myself as a child and my familly members who all hail
> frmo that region. This doesn't mean that all those serving in the
> earmy fit that profile, for there were in addition, many
> Dravidian/Australoid people serving in the army as well, also as
> evidence in the wall paintings of Shush and by Herodotus' depiction of
> the so-called "Asiatic Ethiopians" or "straight haired ethiopians"
> from what is now the southeastern Iranian province of Balutchestan,
> where Australoid-like people still live there.
>
> 5) As for the attitude of Alexander towards Iranians, the historian
> john Warry emphasized the trouble that Alexander got into when showing
> himselg too sympathetic to Iranians. It is a fact that by the time
> Alexander reached Soghdiana (the Iranian speaking land that now lies
> in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan), about 40% of his army was made up of
> Iranians. Roman Girshman also spoke of this fusion of races, which was
> Alexander's wish, not the eurocentric neo-colonialism that the
> Europeans have projected onto this whole sorry depiction and
> distorition of history.
> Alexander dressed Persian, used Persian court styles and ways, and
> even had an all Persian bodyguard unit. He made at least 1,000 of his
> officers marry Persian and other Iranian noble women, and drilled
> Persian men and soldiers in the Macedonian art of war, including the
> phalanx.For this he was despised by his men and friends, which might
> be the reason for his killing of Parmenio and later Craterus. He was
> basically taken with Persian culture and civilization, and drawn away
> from the ruffian Macedonians who were probably far more ethnocentrist
> than he and wanted to rule the Persians, not fuse wtih them and become
> their brothers.
> Alexander dreamed of conquering the world but not of subjugating the
> different peoples but of fusing them. UNfortunately that was not the
> case with many of our own Persian Kings who were not all like Kourosh
> the Great or Dariush the Great.
>
> 6) the burning of Persepolis is ommited, as is the massacre of the
> entire population of Tyre (8,000) and Gaza. Likewise, his near defeats
> in Lorestan and his army's slaughter by a descendant of
> Zartosht/Zarathushtra/Zoroaster, named espantaman in What is now
> Tajikistan is ommited, no doubt from fear of messing with the
> eurocentrist view of European supremacy, never mind that the Iranians
> scored a dozen victories over the Greeks, from Ephesus to Sardis, to
> Lade Gulf to Kalystos and Eretrea, Lindos, Chios etc...and later,
> slaughtered the Romans wholesale, the same Romans that are presented
> in eurocentrist eyes as the most advanced nation on Earth in their
> day, and the strongest militarily. In Fact Persians frequently routed
> Roman armies more than three times stronger and took many territories
> from them...but that again is the censorship of Eurocentrism which
> will always prevail in Holywood.
>
> 7) Lastly, the widly exagerated numbers by the lying sacks of shit
> like Herodotus, Arrian, Curtius etc...merely reflects that the Greeks
> are either insane, can't count worth of shit and suck at math or are
> total liars. For Gaugamella, the lunatic Arrian mentioned that 300,000
> Persians were killed and only 100 of Alexander's soldiers were killed.
> These are the same Greek madmen what claim that 20,000 Persian
> soliders were killed at Thermopylae and 6400 at Marathon when in
> reality it was 2,000 + at Thermopylae (and many more Greeks) and
> around 2,000 at Marathon, including probably around 500 on the
> battlefield. The Greeks themselves lost around 1,000 men, not the 192
> claimed.
>
> According to Warry, there were 91,000 men accounted for on the Persian
> side at Gaugamella, and around 47,000 on Alexander's side, not the
> ridiculous figure of 1,000,000 by that madman Greek buttfucker Arrian,
> nor the Hollywood figure of 300,000. In fact, later historians
> including military governors have dismissed these figures on the
> grounds of logistical issues such as feeding teh army and the animals
> (Cuyler-Young).
>
> At Gaugamella, around 30,000 Persians were lost (meaning that the
> Greeks exagerated figures by a factor of ten) and the Macedonians at
> least 1,000.
>
> 8) I laughed at the desire of the Greeks to "sue" Oliver Stone when in
> fact all their ancestors where a bunch of skin flute playing butt
> pirates and had the habit of "binding" each other's penises togther as
> a sign of homo-eroticism. In fact, one of the reasons the Spartan army
> was so efficient was that all the men of the Phalanx were placed next
> to their lovers. Greeks were a bunch of degenerate buttfuckers of
> their own Phalax, not to mention liars and distorters of facts which
> the eurocentrists have been more than eager to accept as "fact".
>
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> From: manuvera@a...
> Date: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:07 pm
> Subject: The Alexander Movie: How are Iranians and Greeks portrayed?
>
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> Hollywood has just released one of the latest of its epic
> blockbusters: Alexander the Great. Directed by distinguished director
> Oliver Stone, the movie endeavours to recreate the events of the
> Hellenic conquests and the downfall of the first Persian Achaemenid
> Empire. It is important to note however, that simply because a movie
> is high budget, casts high profile Hollywood actors and is directed by
> top ranking directors, does not make it flawless.
>
> Beyond the entertainment value of Oliver Stone's latest project, a
> number of serious errors do exist in the movie, many which may appear
> trivial. These "trivial" errors will nevertheless be of consequence to
> both Iranians and Greeks.
>
> Ironically, it has been my Greek friends and colleagues who bought the
> flaws of Oliver Stone's "Alexander" picture to my attention. There are
> a total of five overall errors that will be listed and discussed
> below:
>
> (1) The Battle of Gaugamela:
>
> Oliver Stone has relied on Professor Robin Lane Fox, one of the
> world's foremost experts in the area of Alexander and Hellenic
> Studies. His book is a standard reference text in the area of
> Alexandrian Studies:
>
> R.L. Fox. Alexander the Great. London: Penguin, 1986 and 1994.
> ISBN: 0140088784
>
> Despite excellent reviews of his book by critics and scholars, Dr. Fox
> does not understand the military of ancient Persia. A typographical
> shot of the battle of Gaugamela, shows the Greeks advancing in ordered
> and disciplined ranks. In contrast, the armies of Darius III are shown
> as little better than an amorphous mob. This is a false image of the
> Achaemenid army. The Achaemenids used drums and musical instruments to
> direct the marching tactics of their troops in battle. Second, the
> Achaemeneans used the decimal system, which was in fact, unknown to
> the Greeks of the period. Persian units were formed in legions of 10,
> 100 or 1000 or 10,000. A typical term was "Hezar-Patesh" (roughly
> equivalent to "leader of a thousand men").
>
> In addition, the Persians had developed a sophisticated system of
> heraldry and their troops wore standard uniforms. The Greeks were
> certainly excellent fighters and were thoroughly organized, but this
> does not mean that the Persians were not. At the time, the Greeks were
> militarily superior with respect to armaments, tactics and military
> training.
>
> This military imbalance changed with the coming of the Parthian and
> Sassanian cavalry. The Iranian Savaran (elite Cavalry) successfully
> halted and defeated many of the later Greek-Hoplite inspired Roman
> armies. Many Romans attempted to imitate Alexander and failed against
> Persia. These include Marcus Lucinius Crassus at Carrhae, Marc Antony
> at Tabriz (where he failed twice), Gordian III at Mesiche, Phillip the
> Arab near modern Syria, Valerian at Barbablissos, and Julian the
> Apostate in Mesopotamia. I personally doubt that Hollywood will
> recreate these spectacular Roman defeats as these will challenge
> contemporary western notions of the Alexandrian legacy. In addition,
> many Iranians today are unaware of the proud legacy of the Parthian
> and Sassanian Savaran.
>
> Professor Fox's elementary grasp of Iranian militaria should not
> inspire much confidence with respect to accurate portrayals of
> Iranians in general. You may wish to read the following books by
> Professors Sekunda and Head who are experts on the uniforms, dress and
> equipment of the ancient Greeks and Achaemenid Persians.
>
> N. Sekunda. The Persian Army: 560-330 BC. England. Osprey Men at Arms
> Elite Series, 1992.
> ISBN: 1855322501
> http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=P2501
>
> D. Head. The Achaemenid Persian Army. England: Montvert Publications,
> 1992.
> ISBN: 1874101000
>
> There are many errors with the uniforms portrayed as "Persian". As you
> will see in these books, the colors and materials of Achaemenid
> Persians were invariably bright with a mix of shades of purple,
> Saffron, red dyes, shades of blue and green, mixed with darker browns
> (almost Burgundy) and black. These fashions and regalia were
> resuscitated during the Sassanian dynasty (226-651 AD). Only the
> Persian archers (and a few guards) are shown with some accuracy; the
> same cannot be said with respect to the other "Persians" of the movie
> set.
>
> More puzzling is the "Arabesque" way in which ancient Persians are
> portrayed in this battle. I was shocked to see Arabian camel riders
> used to portray one of the vanguards of Darius III's attack on
> Alexander at the battle scene. Arabs were simply auxiliary units in
> the Achaemenean army at the time, and were not a major factor. Camel
> troops were never a major battle order in the armies of Persia. I also
> noticed that an infantry troop of the Achaemenid advance guard was
> speaking in Arabic. Persian is not related to Arabic; it is an
> Indo-European language akin to the languages of Europe and India.
>
> This may be the usual Hollywood habit however of portraying Iranians
> as Arabs, a topic we will re-visit later in this commentary.
>
> (2) Confusing Persia with Babylon
>
> It is very interesting that Professor Fox does not refer to the
> Achaemenid capitals in Susa, Maracanda (Samarqand), Media or
> Persopolis. The destruction of Persopolis by Alexander is a major
> event - instead the movie shows Alexander entering the city of
> Babylon, implying that this was the administrative capital of Persia.
> Babylon was simply another satrapy of the empire; not its capital.
> Babylon had already been incorporated into the Persian Empire in 539
> BC by Cyrus the Great (559-530 BC). Why is Persopolis and its
> destruction not mentioned? There was also the destruction of the three
> major Zoroastrian texts by Alexander - also not referred to in the
> movie.
>
> A possible reason for this may be found in Professor Fox's.interview
> with the distinguished journal "Archeology Today" (Riding with
> Alexander) (enter link below into your internet browser):
>
> http://www.archaeology.org/online/interviews/fox.html
>
> Note the statement below, and how indicative it is of Professor Fox's
> lack of understanding of Classical Achaemenid Persia:
>
> "We all understood that the separate "parts" of Oliver's drama must be
> "color-coded" and â?Ś which could not totally depart from audiences'
> expectations of Greek or Babylonian imagery"
>
> Note the statement "Greek or Babylonian imagery". This statement
> implies that Persia had no real arts worth mentioning, and that Persia
> is simply an extension of Babylon or at best interchangeable.
>
> As noted previously, Babylon was not a major power at the time of
> Alexander. Persian arts and architecture were an eclectic synthesis of
> indigenous (e.g Median, Elamite), Lydian, and Mesopotamian styles,
> including Babylonian. The city-palace of Persopolis is very distinct
> and cannot be be crudely termed as Babylonian. It is, to put it
> mildly, shocking, that the treatment of Persian studies is addressed
> at such a shallow level by Professor Fox.
>
> An important point must be made, especially with respect to the reason
> why Alexander was so violent in his conquest of Persia. The Greeks
> were simply taking revenge for the earlier invasion of their country
> by Darius the Great and his son Xerxes. The Greeks paid a heavy price
> for their battles at Marathon (490 BC), Thermopylae (17th September,
> 490 BC), Athens (27th September, 490 BC), Salamis (29th September, 490
> BC), and Plataea (479 BC). It is significant that when Xerxes burned
> Athens, he ordered the sacred statues of the Greek gods to be removed
> and brought to Persia. The Greeks revered their gods and this Persian
> act was a national insult to them. Most contemporary Iranians are not
> aware of these facts. This certainly is not an excuse for what
> happened at Alexander's time, but it does help put these events in
> perspective.
>
> Although many Iranians demonize Alexander, the man did come to develop
> a great deal of respect for Persia. The more Alexander stayed in
> Persia, the more "Persian" he became, in manners and in dress.
> Alexander paid his respects at the tomb of Cyrus the Great and indeed
> saw himself as the heir of Cyrus. The Greeks so admired Cyrus the
> Great, that they saw his manner of government as a model. You may wish
> to read the Greek "Cyropedia". If Aristotle made racist statements
> about the Persians (and this is shown in the movie), it must also be
> made clear that many Greeks also praised the Persians (see Xenophon or
> Plutarch in his discussion of the Parthian general Surena). A very
> positive aspect of the Alexander movie is that Alexander praises the
> "east" for its architecture and civilization. It is possible that
> Alexander was poisoned by some of his officers for becoming too
> "Persian".
>
> (3) The Blondism of Alexander
>
> A very serious concern of the Alexander movie is the promotion of the
> idea of the "Nordicism" of ancient Greece. Put simply, this is the
> thesis that ancient Greeks were not only predominantly blonde, but
> "Nordic", in the manner of present-day Scandinavians and Northern
> Germans.
> Nordicists have long argued, since the late 1700s, that the people of
> ancient and modern Greece are unrelated. Nordicism argues that the
> "ancient" Greeks were the "true" Greeks in contrast to the non-Nordic
> people of Greece today. This view is exemplified by the Austrian
> Hellenicist, Professor Fallmerayer, in the 1830s, who noted that "not
> a drop of pure Greek blood runs in the veins of modern Greeksâ?Ś" To
> this day, Fallmerayer is recalled with bitterness and derision in
> Greece. It is worth noting that Fallmerayer never set foot in Greece
> in his entire lifetime. For further discussion on these issues you may
> wish to read:
>
> Felipe Fernandez-Armesto's "Guide to Peoples of Europe", especially
> pages 207-216.
> Published in London by Times Books in 1994.
> ISBN: 0-7320-0624-5
>
> Fallmerayer's analysis of Greece is not entirely correct. While true
> that the Ottoman Turks ruled Greece for 400 years and that previous
> Byzantine rulers (e.g. Emperor Nikopherous) had to import colonists
> from present day south Italy to help repopulate parts of Greece
> ravaged by wars, many of these "Italian" colonists were themselves
> ancient Greek, settled in regions such as Calabria and Southern France
> since the times of Darius the Great and earlier. In any event, there
> has always been a strong and predominant Greek element in areas such
> as the Peloponnesos.
>
> As for the lack of mainstream Nordiscism in modern Greece, this has to
> do with the history of ancient Greece itself. Mainland Greece was
> already settled with indigenous Mediterranean peoples, such as the
> ancient Minoans, before the arrival of the Classical Greeks. Ancient
> Greece, like today, was a mixture of Mediterranean and "blonde"
> peoples.
> This leads to a very crucial question: why have no Greek actors been
> selected to portray classical Greeks such as Alexander, Hephaestion,
> Ptolemy I, Olympias, King Phillip II, Cassander or Antiginous? For a
> review of the cast, click on the following links (enter links below
> into your internet browser):
>
> http://www.alexander-the-great.co.uk/
>
> http://www.lilianagimenez.com/artisti-ospiti/raz.jpg - Israeli actor,
> Raz Degan who portrays Darius III.
>
> If one were to use Classical Greek works of art (vases and statues
> specifically) as a standard for prototypical Greek physical
> appearance, one can then easily find a plethora of modern Greek actors
> and actresses today who can portray ancient Greeks. It is interesting
> as to why Oliver Stone did not select Hollywood actors of Greek
> descent or from mainland Greece.
> Oliver Stone goes further however. Colin Farrell, a dark haired Irish
> actor, who plays Alexander, is portrayed literally, as a bleached
> blonde. The notion of Alexander being Flaxen-haired or blonde is
> itself a matter of considerable doubt if not strong dispute. As noted
> by my friend George Tsonis, a Greek-Canadian and a scholar of Greek,
> Roman and Persian history, the Greek word for Alexander's complexion
> is "Xanthenein" (fair). This description simply marks Alexander's
> complexion as being fairer than the other Greeks of his time. Yes, he
> was relatively fair, but not necessarily flaxen-blonde in the
> Nordicist sense. From the Tufts University Lexicon "Xanthenein" is
> roughly translated as fair or a yellowish-brown color. A related term,
> "Xanthizo", can also be to "make yellow" or "brown". No wonder there
> is confusion!
>
> Plutarch, whom most western scholars rely on for their references,
> does not actually describe Alexander's hair color, only his
> complexion. This is a quote from Aelian on the hair; below is the
> Anglisized Greek from Cyrillic and the English translation below that:
>
> "Alexandron de ton Filippou apragmonos oraion legousi genesthai' tin
> men gar komin anasesyrthai afto, xanthin de einai'"
>
> "Alexander the son of Philip is reported to have possessed a natural
> beauty: his hair was wavy and fair"
>
> Varia Historae, 12.14
>
> To see the debates raging about Alexander's true appearance see the
> following discussion panel (enter link below into your internet
> browser):
>
> http://www.pothos.org/forum/showmessage.asp?messageID=16281
>
> A very non-Nordic portrayal of Alexander is evident in the Pompei
> Mosaic. It is agreed by a majority of scholars that the painting is a
> faithful rendition of an original Hellenistic painting of the 3rd
> century BC. As you will witness in the painting below, this
> Hellenic-Roman version of Alexander is very different from the
> contemporary Hollywood fantasy interpretation (see photo below):
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As you see in the photo, this is a very different Alexander than what
> many western scholars and Hollywood would have us believe.
>
> This painting appears to refutes the notion of Alexander being blonde.
> Nevertheless, a number of western scholars remain determined to push
> forward an image of Alexander that may be false. There are scholars
> who are actually convinced that the Pompei mosaic is proof of
> Alexander's Nordic blondeness! Even in allowing for poor
> reproductions, the mosaic clearly shows a 'brown' haired person with a
> Mediterranean or modern Iranian profile. Many Greek and Iranian people
> today have auburn-brown hair, which can appear to be somewhat "blonde"
> in sunlight.
>
> The point from the Greek perspective however, is not simply whether
> Alexander was blonde or not. After all, the Dorian Greeks were blonde
> as a rule, just as the original Persians and Mede settlers of ancient
> Iran were as well. The issue is that of using the notion of blondeness
> to project a specifically non-Greek Nordic west European image.
> Irrespective of whether Alexander was blonde or not, he represented
> the culture of ancient Greece, which is not necessarily the same as
> that of modern Western Europe.
>
> Ancient Greece and Rome, as we will note again further below, were
> Mediterranean empires, very different from the inhabitants of interior
> and northern Europe. The peoples of western and eastern Europe were
> very different from the Classical Greeks in culture, language and
> temperament. To obtain an introduction to the history of the northern
> Europeans, you may wish to read:
>
> D. Rankin. Celts and the Classical World. London: Routledge, 1996.
> ISBN: 0-415-15090-6
>
> A. Ferrill. The Fall of the Roman Empire: The Military Explanation.
> Thames & Hudson, 1986.
> ISBN: 0500274959
>
> The "Europeans" adopted a great deal of their civilization and
> identity from the Greeks and the Romans. Even the name "Europe" is
> derived from the ancient Greek term "Oropia". It may not be an
> exaggeration to state the following: with their adoption of
> Greco-Roman culture, west European scholars in particular, have
> essentially affected a "Nordic makeover" of the ancient Greeks and
> Romans. As Western culture has adopted the mantle of ancient Greece,
> it has also adopted Alexander as its own son; to the point that
> Alexander and ancient Greece are viewed as identical with ancient
> Western Europe and Scandinavia.
>
> The Nordicising of favourite historical figures does not end with
> Alexander. Jesus Christ, is frequently portrayed as a slightly built,
> tall blonde Nordic man. Jesus or Jeshua, was a Jew from West Asia who
> spoke Aramaic. It is now acknowledged by a number of researchers that
> much of what we accept as the "appearance" of Jesus is not altogether
> accurate. Jesus would most likely have resembled a modern Fertile
> Crescent Arab or Jew from places such as Jerusalem, Amman, Hebron,
> Damascus or Basra. Scientists have recently reconstructed the image of
> Christ as he would have most likely appeared in his lifetime in
> ancient Palestine and Judea (see photo below):
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The reconstruction that you witnessed in the attachment is very
> different from the icons we are used to seeing in the churches and
> Christian arts of Northwestern Europe. How many images have you seen
> in North American or Western European churches that show the Aramaic
> Christ? It would seen that, like Alexander, the "real image" of Jesus
> has shifted in accordance with politics, ideology, dogma and popular
> culture over the centuries. Interestingly, many cultures across the
> world today interpret Jesus' physical appearance in accordance with
> their own anthropomorphic image (enter link below into your internet
> browser):
>
> http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/jesus/photo/photo.html
>
> It appears that Hollywood has successfully associated a certain
> physical appearance with modernity, progress, success and rationalism.
> By implication, that which is not of that "certain look" is in danger
> of being associated with all that is the antithesis of that. With this
> logic, historical reality is bent to fit a manufactured reality: a
> fantasy.
>
> (4) Greek or Macedonian?
>
> This movie contains a number of concerns to Greeks in particular, such
> as Macedonia being "different" from the rest of Greece, a very
> contested issue in the Balkans these days. Although not generally
> reported, the government of Greece, which had originally supported the
> Alexander picture, withdrew its funding and support for Oliver Stone's
> project (enter link below into your internet browser):
>
> http://www.hri.org/news/greek/ana/1998/98-11-17.ana.html#19
>
> There was to have been co-operation between Stone and the Greek
> government, but this was apparently changed when the details of the
> script became known (see also (4) below).
>
> To be honest, I was left confused as to whether the Macedonians were
> Greek or not. This may be an attempt to placate those who view
> Macedonia as "different" from Greece, not unlike those who try to
> argue that Kurds and Azerbaijanis are not Iranians. The Greeks, like
> the Iranians today, are now confronted with having to defend their
> historical heritage against those who have territorial claims against
> their nation. The Oliver Stone picture, in my opinion, does not
> clearly define Macedonians as Greeks.
>
> In addition to these concerns, many Greeks are offended by the
> bisexual portrayal of Alexander. It is also rumoured that many Greek
> associations may have plans to sue Oliver Stone.
>
> Again, ancient Greek terminology and its translations by western
> scholars may have played a role in the "bisexual" interpretation of
> Alexander. We have already seen how the term "Xanthenein" has been
> stretched to paint a "Scandinavian" Alexander.
>
> (5) The Portrayal of Roxanna and the Perpetuation of the "Hollywood
> Persian"
>
> My wife Parnian and I, as Iranians, found the portrayal of Roxanna
> insulting. This portrayal has been defined by the aforementioned
> Professor Fox, whose has already been noted for his shallow
> understanding of Persian arts and architecture. Professor Fox's
> portrayal of Roxanna also indicates that he has very little knowledge
> of Iran's anthropological history.
>
> The portrayal of ancient Iranians is outright comical, if not
> insulting. The inaccurate Hollywood portrayal of Iranians is
> exemplified by the selection of Rosario Dawson
> (http://www.lostfocus.de/archives/rosario_dawson.jpg), a very
> talented, beautiful and intelligent black actress, to star as Roxanna,
> an ancient Iranian queen from Soghdia-Bactria. Roxanna was not black,
> anymore than Alexander was Scandinavian. Having Rosario Dawson
> portrayed as Roxanna makes as much sense as having Lucy Liu, an
> Asian-American, portraying Queen Victoria of Great Britain.
>
> The term Roxanna is derived from Old Iranian "Rokh-shwan" or "face
> (Ruksh) - fair skinned-shiny (shwan)". Roxanna was related to a North
> Iranian tribe known later as the Sarmatians, the remnants who survive
> in the Caucasus and Russia as the Ossetians (ancient Alans or
> Ard-Alans)
>
> Roman sources such as Pliny repeatedly describe ancient North Iranian
> peoples such as the Alans and Seres as "â?Śflaxen (blonde) haired blue
> eyed nomadsâ?Ś" (see Wilcox, p.19). Rosario Dawson does not fit the
> description of an ancient Iranian woman, especially from Northern
> Iranian stock. The Ossetians of today, descendants of ancient Northern
> Iranians, predominantly resemble northern Iranians and Europeans and
> speak an archaic Iranian language (like the Avesta of the
> Zoroastrians). Blondism is very common among these descendants of
> ancient North Iranians in cities such as Beslan and Vladikafkaz. It
> can be argued that Roxanna was a brunette, however, she was of
> Northern Iranian stock, which would still make her very different from
> actress Rosario Dawson.
>
> There are plenty of talented actresses of Iranian descent in North
> America alone that would well fit the historical Roxanna. Oliver Stone
> could have just as easily selected an Iranian actress, however he
> relied on the historical "expertise" of Professor Fox. The question
> that can be addressed to Professor Fox is this: what makes Rosario
> Dawson so representative of Iranian women and Roxanna in particular?
> Is the Professor aware of the anthropology and history of ancient Iran
> as it was at 333 BC?
>
> More puzzling is the design of Roxanna's costume in the movie. Note
> the photo showing the marriage of Alexander to Roxanna. Roxanna
> appears to wear a Burka-like veil constructed of strips of metallic
> mesh in which the face is partly hidden. See the photo (enter link
> below into your internet browser):
>
> http://www.alexander-the-great.co.uk/showimages.php?id=alex3_l.jpg
>
> The headgear is partly correct if we base the costume on the Saka
> Paradraya Iranian speaking tribes of the present-day Ukraine (8-4th
> centuries BC). The decorations on the headgear are simply wrong and
> Iranian queens did not wear face masks of any type. For a discussion
> of the Saka Paradrya, known in the west as Scythians, consult:
>
> E.V. Cernenko. The Scythians 700-300 BC. London: OspreyPublishing,
> 1989.
> ISBN: 0850454786
> See colour plate G.
>
> Once you have consulted Professor's Cernenko's book, it will be
> evident how flawed the costume design is, not to mention the colors.
> None of the reconstructions by Professor Gorelik, which Cernenko has
> consulted, show any type of face masks for ancient Iranian women.
> Ancient Iranian women, who were found in military, religious and
> political leadership roles, simply did not wear such attire during
> courtship, marriage or everyday duties.
>
> It is not clear why Professor Fox has chosen a Burka-like face mask
> for Roxanna at Alexander's wedding. Variants of this face mask are
> present in Afghanistan today, mainly the result of former Taliban rule
> and very conservative Pashtoon tribal society, which very strongly
> identifies itself with the culture of ancient Arabia.
>
> Even more interesting is the "Arabian Nights" portrayal of an
> Achaemenid harem. Harems certainly existed in Persia and the later
> Roman and Byzantine courts, however the specifically "Arabian"
> appearance accdored to the Achaemenids is simply consistent with the
> Hollywood tradition of portraying Iranians as Arabs.
>
> Interestingly, the movie portrays the "Persians" with Arabian styles
> of music and dance. This portrayal is not based on factual
> information; it is a Hollywood portrayal. From the scant evidence that
> exists, we do know that one of the Persian styles of dance strongly
> resembled the dances of the Kurds of today; a style also seen in
> western Turkey, Greece and the Balkans today. As for music, we have no
> notes or scales from that period, and "Arab music" as we know it today
> simply did not exist at that time; it is a much later creation.
> Arabian music can trace its beginnings to the Bedouin tribes of Arabia
> - it later borrowing heavily of Sassanian and Greek scales (after the
> 7th century AD).
>
> These errors are enough to question the historical accuracy of the
> Alexander picture. It seems that when it comes to Iranians and their
> identity, history is easily "re-written" for the benefit of popular
> entertainment. As Professor Fox has duly noted in an interview with
> Archeology Today (http://www.archaeology.org/online/interviews/fox.html),
> the movie "could not totally depart from audiences' expectations". The
> "audience" undoubtedly has "expectations" as to what Iranians "should"
> look like.
>
> Given Professor Fox's rudimentary knowledge of Persia's anthropology,
> you may wish to refer to:
>
> J.P. Mallory. In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archeology
> and Myth. London: Thames & Hudson, 1989.
> ISBN: 0-500-27616-1
> Read pages: 9-23, 48-56, 78, 266-272.
>
> An excellent article by Dr. Oric Basirov is posted as well:
> http://home.btconnect.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/Oric.Basirov/origin_of_the_iranians.htm
>
> For color reconstructions of ancient Iranians see:
>
> P. Wilcox. Rome's Enemies (3): Parthians and Sassanid Persians.
> London: OspreyPublishing, 1986.
> ISBN: 0850456886
>
> T. Newark. The Barbarians. London: Concord Publications Company, 1998.
> ISBN: 9623616341
> See Page 7 (the Saka - ancestors of today's Lurs and Seistanis) and 30
> (ancestors of the Ard-Alan).
>
> Iran today is very much a genetic tapestry that includes blondism in
> Northern and Western Iran (e.g. Parsabad, or Talysh), as well as among
> Iranian peoples such as Lurs, Azeris, Mazandaranis, Kurds and
> Boyer-Ahmadis. Iran is also home to Arabians in Khuzistan and the
> Persian Gulf coast, Asiatic Turcomens in the Northeast, as well as the
> Baluchis near Pakistan, who have a strong Dravidian admixture. You may
> wish to read the very thorough and precise compendium of Iranian
> peoples today by:
>
> F. Hole (Editor). The Archaeology of Western Iran: Settlement and
> Society from Prehistory to the Islamic Conquest (Smithsonian Series in
> Archaeological Inquiry). Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution
> Press, 1987.
> ISBN: 0874745268
>
> W. B. Fisher (Editor). The Cambridge History of Iran: Volume 1, The
> Land of Iran. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2004.
> ISBN: 0521069351
>
> These books (especially the Cambridge History of Iran series) will
> provides a more informed and less misleading analysis of Iran's
> anthropological history than that offered by Professor Fox.
>
> As seen in this commentary, Hollywood portrayals of Iranians are in
> stark contrast to reality. Until the Arabian arrivals in the 7th
> century AD, the majority of Iranians would have looked no different
> from the Greeks or Romans. Greek and Roman references to classical
> Iranians do not refer to them as different in the "physical" sense;
> differences lay mainly in manner of government, philosophy and to a
> lesser extent, mythology. The Azadan nobility of the Parthian and
> Sassanian Savaran (elite cavalry), more than 500 years later than
> Alexander, are described by Peter Wilcox as "â?Śvery similar to the
> Celtsâ?Śstrikingly similar to Northwest Europeansâ?Ś" (p.6). There are
> still many short stories in Southern Italy today which accurately
> portray the temperament and appearance of the Persians as they would
> have appeared in antiquity.
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = =
>
> Despite the powerful historical revisionism of a number of mainly
> northwest European historians such as Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) or the
> aforementioned Fallmerayer, the Greco-Roman world and Persia have
> profoundly influenced each other in areas such as architecture, the
> arts and crafts, the sciences and medicine, mythology, military and
> engineering technologies. While true that one can find a number of
> anti-Persian references in Greco-Roman sources, these were in the
> context of wars that broke out between these powers. A perfect example
> of this is how the movie explicitly shows Aristotle deriding the
> Persians as inferior to the Greeks. Modern Greeks place this in
> context and see Aristotle as expressing the political climate of his
> day. Iranians are very well liked and respected in Greece and are seen
> as the heirs of a great civilization. Alexander himself came to
> greatly appreciate the Iranians and their culture. It is a shame that
> the movie did not show Alexander as paying homage to the tomb of Cyrus
> the Great.
>
> As noted previously, Greco-Roman historians who were prepared to
> acknowledge and highly praise the Persians (e.g. Xenophon, Plutarch,
> etc.). Today's popular culture, education systems and movie
> entertainment industries in particular, seem to be providing a very
> selective and distorted view of Persia with respect to antiquity. Many
> are simply not aware (or wish not be aware) of Persia's importance and
> status in antiquity let alone her major contributions to world
> civilization.
>
> Ancient Greeks, Romans and Persians had much more in common with each
> other than with the relatively unsophisticated Celtic and Germanic
> peoples who were roaming the Northern European forests. For an
> incisive discussion of these little discussed topics consult:
>
> N. Spatari. Calabria, L'enigma Delle Arti Asittite: Nella Calabria
> Ultramediterranea. Italy: MUSABA, 2003.
> ISBN: 8887935300
> As far as I know, this book has still not be translated from Italian
> to English. Still an excellent read, especially with the
> illustrations.
>
> P. Kriwaczek. In Search of Zarathustra: The First prophet and the
> Ideas that Changed the World. Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 2002.
> ISBN: 0297646222
>
> I look forward to the day when we will see blockbuster movies of
> Shapur I (241-272) who defeated three Roman emperors in his lifetime
> and destroyed a third of Rome's armies. Even more dramatic would be to
> see movies made of the life and times of figures such as Zarathustra,
> Aryaman, Shahrbaraz, Mani, Mazdak, Babak, Abu Ali Sina or Omar
> Khayyam.
>
>
> Dr. Kaveh Farrokh
> Manu...@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date
> 4653 Re: The Alexander Movie: How are Iranians and Greeks portrayed?
>
>
>
>
> IRANSCOPE INFO ghandchi Thu 12/2/2004
>
>
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Nasht0n
> "Nasht0n" <na...@na.ca> wrote in message
> news:3pHsd.190703$Np3.7...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>
>>Mark Anagnostou wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The majority of Greeks have brown hair.Id say about 80%
>>>Id say another 10% has black hair ans the last 10% blonde.
>>>As for this dick saying Greeks are short.What planet is he from.
>>>Most Greek men are pretty tall and broad shouldered.
>>>Certainly taller then the English.
>>>Most of my Greek freinds are over 6 feet.Im the shortest and stand at 5
>>>11.
>>>So quit the racist bullshit.
>>>P.S me ex who was Greek was as blonde as u could get.My wife who is of
>>>slavic descent is dark haired.
>>
>>I agree with this estimation. OTOH, I can't see how phenotype is related
>>to anything of a cultural nature, especially in the way it is presented by
>>the un-Greek racist Dorian.
>>
>>Nicolas
>
>
> Isn't that what I just said? I also added that I'm sick of these people
> trying to hijack Alexander for their own evil ends. The fact of the matter
> is he was a Greek hero, he was blonde, he was king of Macedonia - the most
> powerful Greek kingdom of the time, he enjoyed sex with women and may have
> had some kind of close relationships with men, something which is pure
> conjecture - end of story.
>
>
Dorian, you need to lighten up. Get some more daylight, play the guitar,
whatever. You are not doing Greeks a favor, trust me. Go hunt a
crocodile, kangaroo os whatever it is you hunt Down Under.
Oh and please, get lost.
Nicolas
Dorian West
> Dorian West wrote:
SNIP
>>
>
> Dorian, you need to lighten up. Get some more daylight, play the guitar,
> whatever. You are not doing Greeks a favor, trust me. Go hunt a crocodile,
> kangaroo os whatever it is you hunt Down Under.
>
> Oh and please, get lost.
>
> Nicolas
Why don't you get lost, you loathsome idiot???? What have you ever
contributed to these NGs apart from JewSA miscegenation policies and useless
crap??? IT'S NOT WITTY AND FUNNY! In short, IT'S BORING, YOU'RE BORING.
Stay on topic, MONGOL. I know how hard it is for a tent dweller to do that,
but try not fornicating with your sister or m_____!!!!!r
Turkish-Republic-of-North-Cyprus
Aha.....another Greek/Greek civilized conversation gone wrong by the look of
things.
One trying desperately to prove Alexandra's homosexuality as "pure
conjecture" and the other trying to shut him up before he makes a fool of
all things Greek.
One has to give respect where respect is due, the Greeks are excellent Myth
makers and shutting people up.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Jason K. Lambrou
Turkish-Republic-of-North-Cyprus
You sound more and more like an idiot. Who the feck is JJ?
--
Please visit http://atcanews.org and show your support for the Turkish
Cypriot cause for freedom. Thanks.
adre...@home.com
notes on the physical appearance of foreigners and non-ROmans in their
known world, they noted the Germans, Celts and Iranian Sarmatians as
tall, robust, blond or red haired and muscular. This was the original
Indo-European type. Such comments were NEVER made about Greeks.
>In fact, one merely has to look at the so-called "Alexander Mosaic"
and its replica, such as the one found at Pompei, to see that
Alexander was in fact very Mediterranean in appearance: He had black
hair (not even brown), a large fleshy nose like modern Greeks and
Turks, and a very thin, longish face, typical of mediterranean people
and not Nordic at all. His skin was copper or tanwy and not pinkish
like Nordicss and it was claimed that his height was a mere 5'2", a
far cry from the Nordic 6" which Darius the Great of Persia however
(not Dariush III who fought Alexander) approximated more.
The issue of Alexander's hair color is one that I have raise myself but
there are contradictions in the texts. Histories written at the time
of Alexander and journals indicate that he was blond and of fair
complexion and that he had -possibly- two different eye pigmentations.
The original painting, from which the "Battle of Issus" mosaic was
copied, was painted about 30 years after Alexander's death; it is
difficult now to assert how close the Pompei copy (and a mosaic to
boot) is to the original painting. As the Pompey mosaic was created
hundreds of years after the painting, the painting itself may not have
been in a state of good preservation. Actually, antique paintings,
because they were kept in places burning the typical candles, incense
and olive oil, would have been darkened much faster than modern
equivalents.
Having said this, it is unlikely that blonds predominated among ancient
Greeks although this was regarded as the ideal: The colors of reliefs
and statues in temples indicate as much. However, if the Greeks were
less Nordic than portrayed, I think that the Persians were portrayed
more or less accurately in the movie as painted reliefs of them still
survive.
>2)Alexander was a MACEDONIAN, not a Greek. What is a Macedonian? In
ancient terms, Macedonians were similar to modern Swiss, they were a
collection of people that included a small minority of Greeks whose
upper class was admited at the Greek games (known to us as the
Olympics). The majority of the population however was not Greek. There
were Illyrians, related in language to the people of Albania (this
INdo-European speech once spread as far north as modern Slovenia and
northeast Italy) and Thrakians whose only modern relatives in speech
today are Armenians.
Apparently, you are misinformed. In fact, modern scholarship fully
agrees that the Macedonians were Greek. The names were Greek (I
challenge you to provide to me an Illyrian name among known Macedonian
names), their gods were Greek, their cities had Greek names, their
military terminology was Greek, their funenary monuments (including
those of the typical citizens) had Greek inscriptions (and such
cemeteries have been recently unearthed), their currency had Greek
inscriptions since the formation of the state of Macedon, they attended
Greek theater (Euripides wrote and produced some of his plays at
Pella)and had typical Greek institutions. These Macedonians left
inscriptions from Macedonia to Afganistan and I challenge you to
produce anything Illyrian from them. In addition, Herodotus, who
visited and lived in Macedonia specifically states that the Macedonians
were Greek and so do virtually all modern scholars. Such anti-Greek
stupidities as the ones portrayed here are just so much balloney.
>In fact, there were MORE GREEKS SERVING IN THE PERSIAN ARMY as there
were Greeks serving with Alexander.
After the first engagment at the Granicus River, most of the infantry
serving in the army of the Persians were Greeks, led by a Greek
general named Memnon. After teh Persian cavalry retreated, these heavy
infantry Hoplites were left isolated on a hill and received no
quarter. There were about 8,000 of them and they were surrounded and
killed almost to a man. 2,000 survivors were chained and sold as
slaves because they were considered traitors to the "Greek cause".
It is interesting however that many Greek states wthat had not been
reduced to servitued by ALexander, such as Laconia (meaning Sparta and
the region surrounding it) did not join in this so-called "Greek
cause".
The above simply portrays either your ignorance or your determined
willingness to distort facts. In fact, Alexander himself commented
about the presence of Greek mercenaries in the forces of Darius and
contrasted their motives (money) to those of his followers (the glory
of Greece). Greeks fought against Greeks for centuries before
Alexander and continued to fight against one another during the life of
Alexander and for centuries after that. So what??? Why are we trying
to make these people into 21st century versions of ourselves? They
never had the notions that we have and, in fact, they are quite foreign
to us.
Yes, Sparta did not join the Hellenic League. So what? BTW, Laconia
was the Spartan state, not anything else. Sparta fought against other
Greeks for centuries, it had no problems capturing and enslaving
Messenia in the 7th and 6th century BC, and continued fighting against
other Greeks for at least 200 years after the death of Alexander. Why
do you have to display such ignorance of facts?
>In fact, when Alexander marched towards the Levant, many of his
garrisons were attacked in Greece.
Actually, the Spartans led the attack against the Hellenic League and
were defeated by Antipater whose troops were raised mainly from Arcadia
and Argos, not Macedonia. Learn a little history, it would help.
>There may have been some 60,000 Greek mercenary troops in the Persian
army of Dariush as a whole. Alexander had a total of 45-50,000 troops,
including over half that were not even Greek but Illyrian and
Thrakian.
There you go again, without any facts. Actually, despite the facts. If
we believe you, here we have the best triumph of Illyrian arms ever and
the Illyrians never knew this. In fact, the Macedonians fought bitter
wars against the Illyrians prior to Alexander and continued fighting
them well after Alexander. Actually, Philip V was engaged in many wars
against the Illyrians. So much about the stupidities that you parloin
here.
>7) Lastly, the widly exagerated numbers by the lying sacks of shit
like Herodotus, Arrian, Curtius etc...merely reflects that the Greeks
are either insane, can't count worth of shit and suck at math or are
total liars. For Gaugamella, the lunatic Arrian mentioned that 300,000
Persians were killed and only 100 of Alexander's soldiers were killed.
These are the same Greek madmen what claim that 20,000 Persian
soliders were killed at Thermopylae and 6400 at Marathon when in
reality it was 2,000 + at Thermopylae (and many more Greeks) and
around 2,000 at Marathon, including probably around 500 on the
battlefield. The Greeks themselves lost around 1,000 men, not the 192
claimed.
But here is the best demonstration of your stupidity, because these are
easy facts to check. As you probably know, the graves of the Athenians
that fell at Marathon (as well as those of the Plateans) have been
unearthed. The tomb at Marathon can be visited by any stupido like
you. Believe it or not, there are 192 graves there! exactly as many as
mentioned by Herodotus and Sophocles (who was an actual participant in
the battle). These numbers are not doubted by any modern historian.
BTW, there are exactly 192 figures of horsemen on the famous frieze of
Parthenon, now convincingly known to symbolize the 192 dead at
Marathon.
As to the numbers of Persian participants in battles and the numbers of
their dead, sure, some of those numbers were probably inflated but in
antique battles most of the casualties were inflicted on armies which
have turned and fled. Especially at Issus and Gaugamela, I have no
problem believing that the Macedonian cavalry cut down retrieting
Persian troops by their thousands. Similar events have occurred in
other battles with similar armies that are much better documented. For
example, when Belisarius advanced group met the Vandals at Ad Decimium,
there was an original melle in which the Vandal royal leader was killed
(Gelimer's nephew) ; his death caused a headlong retreat of the Vandals
towards Carthage. During the retreat, Belisarius' army inflicted
horrendous losses on the fleeing Vandals and the corpses were strewn
from Ad Decimum all the way to the gates of Carthage (a distance of
many miles). So, that the numerous Macedonian cavarly would be
slaughtering by the thousands purely armed, disintegrating and fleeing
Persians does not sound that implausible to me and I would think that
7,000 cavalrymen could have easily killed 50-70,000 retreating Persians
in less than an hour (and the killing went on for much longer than
that). Great captains of history knew when to press their advantage,
and Alexander certainly did this at Gaugamela. As for the dead at
Thermopylai, I think that the figures are about true, considering that
the initial clashes included almost 8,500 Greeks in tight formation,
attacked over a number of days by the crack units of the Persian
armies. I would think that a number of 20,000 Persian dead there is
probably an underestimate. To even believe that Xerxes would have been
appalled by 2000 in losses is ridiculous, assuming a moderate force of
about 250,000 for the Persian army. For him, to have committed the
immortals to the battle meant that things got really serious.
Estimating the killing potency of Greek phalanx per meter and per
minute of fighting, I would say that 20,000 is on the low side. Greek
phalanxes were known to lose a quarter of their strength within minutes
of the original clash. So, 20,000 dead is a very poor tally for the
phalanx at Thermopylai for two days of fighting, never mind the final
clash.
>This military imbalance changed with the coming of the Parthian and
Sassanian cavalry. The Iranian Savaran (elite Cavalry) successfully
halted and defeated many of the later Greek-Hoplite inspired Roman
armies. Many Romans attempted to imitate Alexander and failed against
Persia. These include Marcus Lucinius Crassus at Carrhae, Marc Antony
at Tabriz (where he failed twice), Gordian III at Mesiche, Phillip the
Arab near modern Syria, Valerian at Barbablissos, and Julian the
Apostate in Mesopotamia. I personally doubt that Hollywood will
recreate these spectacular Roman defeats as these will challenge
contemporary western notions of the Alexandrian legacy. In addition,
many Iranians today are unaware of the proud legacy of the Parthian
and Sassanian Savaran.
Again, wild misinformation. It is true that many Romans failed in
their invasions either of Parthian or Sassanid territories, but many
succeeded and essentially one of them almost put an end to the Persian
state. Among those being successful in defeating the Parthians and
later the Sassanids include Trajan (who conquered the whole of
Mesopotamia), Septimius Severus, Aurelian, Galerius, Belisarius (at the
battle of Darah) and, of course, Heraclius. Furthermore, some of the
Roman defeats were logistical defeats, not defeats in pitched battles
(the campaign by Marc Anthony and the campaign by Julian). Actually,
none of these events challenge at all the legacy of Alexander. In
fact, in cases in which Romans and later medieval Greeks depended on
the use of a combination of light and heavy cavalry, they were
invariably successful in defeating Parthians or Sassanids. This does
not reflect ill on the valor of the Persians, only on their military
technology. At Darah, Belisarius utilized his heavy cavalry and the
light Hunnic cavalry. Heraclius utilized very much the same kind of
highly mobile, well armoured cavarly units capable of both
close-quarter fighting and missile attacks. Invariably, the Persian
cataphracts (even from the Achaemenid days) were ill equipped to face
such troops.
ADR
Jason K. Lambrou
you,ESI VRE MALAKA
> --
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> Cypriot cause for freedom. Thanks.
>
>
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>
This post is written by something called juju who is so confused, it
doesn't know whether to scratch its watch or wind its ass. Your
ineffective imitation of good posting style only serves to illuminate
your lack of substance, good taste, and decency.
pema...@yahoo.com
contradicting everyone else's observations) can be explained by recent
increases in height worldwide and height increases have been observed
among the new generations of people as diverse as Iranians, Koreans and
Poles.
Also, the height increase is about 100 years old or so and it has
affected different people in different ways. The tallest people are now
the Dutch.
Also, the height increase is mostly due to increased protein diets and
better hyegenic conditions.
pema...@yahoo.com
my claims are true and members of this group that have seen pictures of
me as a child as well as my familly members ...they know but i have
nothing to prove jerk off, because I, unlike your stupid dark ass wanna
be KKK don't believe that any features are superior to others. If you
were Black, Oriental, Mexican or BLONDE (which you are not), you'd
still be a bisexual douche bag waiting to be used by horny Turkish
illegal immigrants like some crusty old cum stained towel used again
and again for the same miserable purpose..
You on the other hand fantasize about blonde hair because some old
Russian or Ukrainian whore frmo across the black sea washed out her
abused cunt after a good night's "work" and her tampon, incrusted wtih
blond pubic hairs washed to the Greek beach where you were getting
ass-raped all night by Turkish tourists.
Ever since you became obcessed with blond hair...
You really are just a dark curly haired fat nosed short Greek dreaming
of Blond Nordics because you got tired of black and Turkish tourists
rapiing your bisexual curly haired Greeek ass and now you long for
Germans and Scandinavians.
Keep cherishing that Ukrainian whore's tampon you miserable darkie!
pema...@yahoo.com
respond unless you are a mental midget douche bag of a worthless old
hairy old Greek cunt, with goat milk on your black mustache. It's funny
how fat you Greek bitches are, you're actualyl wider than you are
tall...Judging by your stupidity and the fact that you flunked the
third grade so many times, you obviously didn't lear about the metric
system or the difference between width and height.
So let's see how many more times your worthless mentally imbalanced
tampon breath will feel the ned to yet again prove your stupidty before
the whole world. Maybe you should stop drinking that cheap Turkish wine
you pathetic imbecile, it counters the effect of your prescribed doses
of thorazine to control your constant drivelling and pissing all over
yourself.
I wonder how many times you have to push that button before another
buff male nurse comes and shoves that thorazine up your throat and then
rapes you again when no one's watching to suppress your delusional
schyzophrenic fantasies about tall, blond Greeks running around
conquering the world. Yeah, you showed us you mental midget now go back
to your hooked on phonics jerk off loonie, maybe you'll learn to put a
couple of sentences together next time.
pema...@yahoo.com
well it looks like your lunacy has hit on all time hight from all that
buttfucking the Turkish "guests" have been subjecting you to:
<Sure rag-head, sure. Whatever you say Mr. Nordic. Is saw mass Iranians
in
Denmark and it looked like flies on milk.>
I never said I was Nordic you cocksmoking Greek faggot. I said that
gene is MIXED among Iranians. If you had learned to read instead of
submiting to your abusive father's desire to "tend" to his sheep at age
9, then maybe you'd stop misquoting. Then again, I guess school ddin't
do you much good on those lonely winter nights, but the sheep surely
did.
And as for claims of Nordic, as I recall it was a particular Greek
douche bag who, after blowing a couple of Greek faggots and prostitute
he/shes in Istambul decided to do a "statistic" of how many of these
Greek fags has blond pubic hair. hence, you came up wtih your bogus
"statistic" about 50% of Greek being "blond"...heh heh heh...the light
pubic hair was probably something else you kinky haired buttfucker!
>> WRONG is you. I work with 6 Greeks in a large telecommunications
company >
Bullshit, you blow six fat short darkie hairy Greeks with moustaches
(male or female) to get a minimum-paying job at a telemarketing
company. besides, you're obviously full of shit. before you said you
worked for the Anglo-Iranian oil company, which hasn't been in
existence since the Iranian revolution, By that token, you'd be an old
fart by now but you're probably some faggoty uggly pimple faced darkie
Greek finding out about his fagot tendencies like Alexander.
> At this point, I don't even give a shit about the statistics of how
> many blond vs how many black haired individuals you've blown and
> swallowed.>
Heh heh you Greek FAGGOTS were never known for originality were you?
Two lines before you came up with that sorry imitation, I told you how
many blond/black haired individuals you blew. It's all that cock
sucking that led you to take interest in the different genes and races
among the men whose fat cocks you stuffed your whore eager thick Greek
mouth with to make that stinky goat cheese stench go away!
<
I was just waffling until I found the right thing to say and yes, the
Anglo-Persian Oil Company loves me very much as it paid me quite well.
I
never questioned its behaviour until later and now I don't think I'd
bother
questioning it anymore.>
yeah, I'm sure they loved you very much. Every boat has a mascot and
you were probably their "cabin boy" you buttfucked little faggot you!
I'm sure they LOOOOOVED YOU you fucking degenerate curly haired Dukakis
looking jerk off you!
<It's not wannabe, it's just the way it is. You're a rag-head and you
should
be proud of that. God made you in that fashion to express your
individuality.>
Heh heh heh, and God knows who made you short statured little Dwarf ass
Greeks, portraying yourselves as "blond" and "tall! Obviously you Greek
buttfuckers are having a massive identity crisis and you can't accept
that oh so kinky hair you all have! That funny looking black fuzz goes
so well with the stinky goat breath and the tiny, itsy bitsy little
peckers on the Greek statues..
Hehehehe no wonder Greek men used to HATE WOMEN!!!!! You used to
buttfuck each other all the time while your women stayed home and got
it on with everyone else. By the way, I used to pork this Greek bitch
Irene back in '97. She has a short, uggly, hairy mustached Greek faggot
husband named Larry who ranted just like you about a non-existent
"blond greek race!!!" I think that movie "my big fat Greek wedding"
portrays your impotent men pretty well, that's why your women always
pork other guys!!!! (look for a clue in those tiny peckers on your
ancient statues)
<Sure, they are, sure. Failed Nordicists who are only angry and jealous
that
Greeks and Romans were creatinhg high civilisation and never bothered
to
tell them about it until 3,000 years later. At least they told the
Persians.
You should be happy and grateful. Looks like it didn't do much good
though.>
Hehehehe, Greeks and Romans inherited civilization from Etruscans
(originally from Turkey), Persians, Medes, Elamites, Egyptians,
Assyrians, Babylonians etc...Funny in your last post how you made
ridiculous Greek buttfucker claims that the Middle East WAS THE CENTER
OF GREEK CULTURE. Your utter stupidity and zero knowledge in geography
can also no doubt be attributed to your leaving school at 9 to take
"care" of your father's sheep hehehehe!!!!!
The only "civilization" you cocsuckers had that wasn't inherited from
us Asiatics and North Africans was the habit of sticking your pea dicks
up each other's shit stained assholes. Truly a great contribution to
civilization: the ART OF GREEK BUTTFUCKING!!!!
<Of course there are. Mr-I-don't-have-a-hangup-about-blondism.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!>
Really, waht's teh hang up? If you're really that hung up on blondism
and your claims about JESUS, JEWS, AND GREEKS BEING BLONDE, then why
don't you just pick up the phone and talk to that male escort service
you spent thousands of dollars on last month, and instead of requesting
Persian cocks, Black cocks and Turkish cocks, request a nice, well hung
Swedish boy that will ram it up your stinky goat smelly hairy dark
Greek ass nice and deep, just like your ancestors liked it from teh
Vikings and Slavs (the reason for 4% of Greeks being blond)
<The Mediterranean physical type is not the SEMITIC which you described
and
which you are a part of you sand-nigger, terrorist piece of Muslim
shit.
Mediterraneans are very beautiful and handsome and the "Greek nose" is
an
ideal of beauty and symmetry in stark contrast to the hook-nosed desert
dwellers of western Asia.>
I am neither Muslim nor a terrorist but still, you seem stuck on your
fantasies about Greek "Nordicism". It's a good thing Turks raped all
your whore women (actually that's not rape because they longed for
Turkish cocks since you Greek men are ...uhm..."challenged") so that
you can "blame" the big nose, dark complexion and curly black hair on
them.
Then again, you're too fucking stupid to know the difference, just like
you're too stupid to know what real Greeks look like since you're some
faggot American teenager jerking off to pictures of some blond Jesus
while fantasizing about your Greek ancestor's appearance, not knowing
that half your fammilly was gang raped by Irish gangsters when they
made it to Ellis Island!
<Funny, how I just came back from a Serb's house where I was forced to
watch
beautiful Slav women singing. 90% looked Mongoloid - slanted eyes and
high
cheekbones. Get another degree, this 1 has failed you miserably.>
Hehehehe, more "statistics"..tel me which whorehouse were you working
in this time? Where you giving blow jobs exclusively to Serbs and
Croats this time or were Turks and Bulgars also included in the usual
roster of your "clients"? Heheheheh you truly are a dirty WHORE!
<There are things called borders and Yugoslavs settled in the periphery
of
civilised Europe.>
heheheh, more racist piece of shit garbage spewed from your dark
skinned curly haired short Greek ass. I'm sure Slavs must have had some
part in your childhood trauma that led you to become such a stupid,
fuckwit ignorant racist who hates anything and everyone, including the
shot curly haired big nosed Greek you see in the mirror everyday after
you get done jerking off to blond Jesus (the founder of "white"
civilization" as you claimed you sorry ignorant sack of shit filled
with the genetic material of Turks, Serbo-Croats, Bulgars and horny
Albanians)!
<I think being part of a totally inferior non-white race has made you a
wannabe "Nordic who you desperately want to resemble you degenerate
curly
haired big nosed haired big nosed fella you!!!!!" Losers like you are
a
dime a dozen, you probably beat your wife and beg when you see a
European.>
heh heh heh, you just projected everything I said to you. It must be
terrible to have so much self hatred indeed!
Come to America and see how Skin heads treat your degenerate mutt kind.
Go and tell one of them about "blond " Greeks and the first thing
you'll get is a kick in the face (since the skinhead's feet are about
the level of your short Greek face). Then, while you agonize on the
ground and keep trying to tell him how you sahre his "Nordic" gene,
he'll spit on you for being a "mud" living in the "grey" zone.
Sorry punk, it must have been painful having your membership denied by
the KKK, after which they all laughed in your faced for not fulfilling
the ideal Aryan height requirements, not to mention that "jewish"
looking big Greek nose and that mud colored complexion you can never be
proud of, even though that's what God (not that faggot blond Jesus you
jerk off on) had meant for you degeenrate Mules living in the
Mediterranean....not quite European, not quite African but sticking to
the asses of Nordics like dingelberries or stale toilet paper on dried
shit.
Sorry ass darkie black haired self hating Greek midget you!!!
pema...@yahoo.com
first of all you tennesse speed snorting piece of inbred cousin fucking
shit, FUCK YOU, YOUR RACE AND FUCK YOUR COUTNRY
Second, what race is Bush? White right? What race is Kobe Bryant? Black
right? What race are many other Americans?
You FUCKING STUPID INBRED WHITE TRASH PIECE OF SHIT you still haven't
figured that race and nationality are two different things haven't you.
Go back to your inbred racist ignorant KKK white trash "Stormfront"
forum you jerk off, all you fat, beer burping honkie faggots can go and
hold your rallies and burn crosses as much as you want..within a
hundred years or less, your proud "WASP" type will be nothing but
another mule phenotype (go look that word up moron) thanks to the
amount of fucking the "brothers" are doing with your women... and the
number of brow babies with mixed features that are being born in the
US. We'l see then about your "white pride".
Second MORON, since you're too fucking stupid to locate Montana on a
map you degenerate uninformed yukol, much the less Iran or any other
coutnry, I'll tell you, even though your IQ level, being lower than
your shoe size, will never allow you to absorb anything mor
ecomplicated than the amount of liquid draino you have to mix in order
to get the right type of methamphetamine in your tub:
Iranians are not all of one race. We are a NATION moron, like the piece
of shit you call a homestate, part of a nation whose reputation is
sadly stained by bible thunping hillbillie bucktoothed mongrels like
yourself. As a nation, Iranians come in different sizes, shapes and
colores, ranging from Black in the south, to white and fair haired in
the north. to Asiatic in the north east. Australoid, Caucasoid,
MOngoloid have all left their traces there, as a result of the great
empires we have given to this world, the sciences, the mathematics, the
astronomy, poetry, medecine etc...which even today shows up in
universities in America where you honky white trash are still
struggling to maintain a 1.0 GPA while all the doctors, engineers and
scientists are Iranian, Chinese or INdian.
So dream on and keep disguising your miserable failures in life and
your low IQ, no doubt a result of your whore mother's execive
prostituting prior to your birth, and rampant methamphetamine or
cocaine use in pregnancy, a common American practice.
As for those Iranians disgusing their names, I shit on them, they are
not Iranians, they are WHORES, like your mother for instance...shedding
their names and assuming different nationalities. I have no respect for
them but then again, no one ever said any nation was perfect, you're
the perfect proof of it KKK inbred trailer trash.
Lastly, shedding "Islam" you fucking turd bugrlarizing jailhouse black
man's bitch, is not a sign of losing one's Iranian identity, it is a
sign of asserting it. Iranians have a history and religion far older
than that dead Jewish guy you worship as a Blond haired Nordic, and as
for bleaching hair, every single American woman, anchor, television or
film star magically turns up blonde in the middle of her career, as if
to mask some hidden complex. Even jewish actress become blonde
overnight. Funny, the ratio of blonde women isn't matche dby that of
blond men, I wonder why.
pema...@yahoo.com
with this predictable racist eurocentrist bullshit? YOU"RE the ignorant
one and you have proven that you are a total jack ass idiot.
Many of the battles you have mentioned, for the purpose of depicting
Europeans as righteous civilizers of the world (sounds a lot like the
white man's burden bullshit which you are spewing in your verbal
diarhea here) and Asiatics as just savages longing to be taught a thing
or two.
Fiorst of all Trajan you idiot, did not "conquer" Iran. He invaded it
like that Roman homo Crassus and Marc Anthony did, wtihout declaring
war. He did so at a time when the Parthians were fighting amongst
themselves and some three contenders were brawling between themselves,
dragging the entire nation into civil war. Trajan crossed the Euphrates
unanounced, pretty much like most of the time when those cowardly two
faced wopps always stabbed people in the back rather than have the
balls to declare war.
The invasion took place in 115. Without opposition from ANY Parthian
army, he conveniently installed a puppet in Tisfun and declared
Parthian vassal states like Adiabene, Osrhoene etc..."Roman provinces".
When the Parthians were done fighting amongst themselves, they took to
the field, wiped the Romans away and all the garrisons left in
Mesopotamia were butcherd to a man, with many, many Roman corpses
littering the fieds of Iraq and Syria, as usual.
In a manner typical of the treacherous Romans, the King of Armenia was
called on and then murdered by order of Trajan and Armenia was also
declared a "province". Funny how two years later, the ROmans were
butchered and kicked out of those so-called Conquests yet all the
western maps depicting the ROman Empire always show this short lived
"conquest" which was really military occupation.
At the same time, no western maps EVER depict the occupation of the
western Asian provinces at the time of Orode and the victories of
Parker and Labenius over the ROmans, leading to the conquest and
administration of the eastern Roman provinces following the shattering
roman defeat of Carrhae.
Likewise, no western maps ever bother to depict the Perisan Empire's
occupation of All of the ROman East including Egypt, Syria, Palestine,
Turkey etc...frmo 602 to 627, and NEVER MIND THE FACT THAT PERSIANS
WERE OUTNUMBERED 3 TO 1 ON AVERAGE AND STILL MANAGED TO KICK THE SHIT
OUT OF THE ROMANS MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. You are obviously an ignorant
Eurocentric twirp with a racist agenda.
The others did make temporary gains, but these never materialized into
permanent conquests. Many Persian generals defeated numerically
superior Roman forces, in battles which sometimes didn't even SHOW UP
in ROman annals, as a result of the "media censorship. Battles such as
Barbalissos and Meshik. battles won by Ardeshir Babak and Shapur. And
never mind the huge gold payments that Rome made to Persia during the
ereigns of Vahram V, Shapur II and Khosro I as war reparations and
acknwoeldgement of defeats (the last one was to lead to the so-called
"eternal peace" between Khosro and Justinian".
As for the claims about Belissarius, once again, you prove your utter
stupidty, ignorance and .....more stupidity, assuming that I am as
badly informed as you are.
For your information, Dara was about to be a Persian victory when the
Roman forces were ROUTED. A charge by the Immortals Cavalry caused the
entire Roman win to waver, until the GERMANIC OSTROGOTHS who had
learned cavalry warfare frmo the IRANIAN SARMATIANS when they came in
contact with the latter in what is now the Urkaine charged and saved
the day, causing a defeat of the Persian cavalry into whose rear and
flank they charged.
In almost every instance, the Romans far outnumbered the Persians and
Parthians, but of course it would not serve the purpose of Euro-centric
racism and utter stupidity to state facts such as teh annhiliation of
Marc Anthony's army of 110,000 men (70,000 were killed)....interesting
that this was NEVER even mentioned in the movie about Caesar and
Anthony (Richard Burton, Elizabeth Taylor and Rex Harrison).
nteresting that you never mentioned that although Severus Alexander was
successful against Parthia in 196, he suffered such heavy losses near
Tisfun and later near Hatra that he had to withdraw.
Interesting also that when depicting the Persians' victories you deny
them their due honors and well deserved accolades while mentioning
Roman victories as fair fights, (typical Eurocentric bullshit the likes
of which spewed by you) but never mention the instances under which
Caracalla, another typically treacherous backstabbing wopp was at first
succesfful.
Caracalla asked and received the hand of the Parthian King Ardavan V in
marriage and during the feast where all the Parthian nobles and the
Parthian King attended wtihout arms, he ordered his guards to
mercilessly murder the guests, at a peace rally and marriage
ceremony!!!!
Ardavan escaped, gathered an army and in 217, dealt such a crushing
defeat to the Romans that they were not heard of again until much
later, after the Persian Ardeshir took over and invaded Roman
territory. It is said that nearly 30,000 Romans were butchered at the
battle of Nisibis in 217.
I could go on about the victories of the outnumbered Persians against
Rome and its allies but what is the point, you will persist in being an
ignorant racist asshole eurocentrist. If you were right and Rome was
victorious more often than not (no one denies that they did win frmo
time to time such as in the time of Narseh in 297), persia would have
been a Roman province and you eurocentric dickwads could truly believe
in the often publicized bullshit propaganda that Rome was the
"greatest" the "best" etc...and all this because all your ancestors
were conquered and raped by those two faced treacehrous savage barbaric
Roman leeches while Persia (along with Germania) was the ONLY
civilizaed nation that withstood Rome and beat her imperialistic
designs to conquer Asia time and time again.
Such is the blow to your ignorant demented eurocentrist propaganda.
Jason K. Lambrou
You used to be called sirknight, but being and Arab stooge
and coward you stopped using it.
If you are a shiite or shitface or whatever the fuck you want to call
yourself, use the ARABIC alphabet, pray to mecca live next door to Arabs
and smell like camel piss, then you must be an ARAB.You perception of
your self means nothing to the rest of the world, the rest of the world
thinks you are the same sand niggers like the Arabs, with more mongol
features because the mongols fucked you real good.Now go back to your
7-11 and get me a cold can of Bud, camel jockey.
Jason K. Lambrou
you, you love that male ass smell camel jockey don't you? Why all men in
the mosque where is the women you muslim faggot, and you call us faggots?
Jason K. Lambrou
You used to be called sirknight, but being and Arab stooge
and coward you stopped using it.
If you are a shiite or shitface or whatever the fuck you want to call
yourself, use the ARABIC alphabet, pray to mecca live next door to Arabs
and smell like camel piss, then you must be an ARAB.You perception of
your self means nothing to the rest of the world, the rest of the world
thinks you are the same sand niggers like the Arabs, with more mongol
features because the mongols fucked you real good.Now go back to your
7-11 and get me a cold can of Bud, camel jockey.
When you pray in the mosque how close are you to the butt in front of
you, you love that male ass smell camel jockey don't you? Why all men in
the mosque where is the women you muslim faggot, and you call us faggots?
> the fact that according to YOUR observations Greeks are now tall (thus
Jason K. Lambrou
You used to be called sirknight, but being and Arab stooge
and coward you stopped using it.
If you are a shiite or shitface or whatever the fuck you want to call
yourself, use the ARABIC alphabet, pray to mecca live next door to Arabs
and smell like camel piss, then you must be an ARAB.You perception of
your self means nothing to the rest of the world, the rest of the world
thinks you are the same sand niggers like the Arabs, with more mongol
features because the mongols fucked you real good.Now go back to your
7-11 and get me a cold can of Bud, camel jockey.
When you pray in the mosque how close are you to the butt in front of
you, you love that male ass smell camel jockey don't you? Why all men in
the mosque where is the women you muslim faggot, and you call us faggots?
Jason K. Lambrou
Turkish words are not only to be found in Hazaragi, but in many other
languages of the arean, and to more or less the same extent: in Farsi,
Urdu, Punjabi, and Hindi. This linguistic amalgamation is the result of
the cultural amalgamation that has inevitably taken place over some 2000
years. This ethnic composition, most evident in language, religion,
social structure and relations, is explained very well by Canfield:
adre...@home.com
with this predictable racist eurocentrist bullshit? YOU"RE the ignorant
one and you have proven that you are a total jack ass idiot.
Many of the battles you have mentioned, for the purpose of depicting
Europeans as righteous civilizers of the world (sounds a lot like the
white man's burden bullshit which you are spewing in your verbal
diarhea here) and Asiatics as just savages longing to be taught a thing
or two.
What utter garbage!!! When did I portray Europeans as righteous
civilizers and Asiatics as savages? Just quote the particular entry.
Man, you do have an inferiority complex.
>Fiorst of all Trajan you idiot, did not "conquer" Iran. He invaded it
like that Roman homo Crassus and Marc Anthony did, wtihout declaring
war. He did so at a time when the Parthians were fighting amongst
themselves and some three contenders were brawling between themselves,
dragging the entire nation into civil war. Trajan crossed the Euphrates
unanounced, pretty much like most of the time when those cowardly two
faced wopps always stabbed people in the back rather than have the
balls to declare war.
The invasion took place in 115. Without opposition from ANY Parthian
army, he conveniently installed a puppet in Tisfun and declared
Parthian vassal states like Adiabene, Osrhoene etc..."Roman provinces".
When the Parthians were done fighting amongst themselves, they took to
the field, wiped the Romans away and all the garrisons left in
Mesopotamia were butcherd to a man, with many, many Roman corpses
littering the fieds of Iraq and Syria, as usual.
What utter drivel!!! Check my text. I have never stated that Trajan
captured Iran, I specifically stated that he captured Mesopotamia.
When are you going to get through your head that you should read what
others write before answering??
>As for the claims about Belissarius, once again, you prove your utter
stupidty, ignorance and .....more stupidity, assuming that I am as
badly informed as you are.
For your information, Dara was about to be a Persian victory when the
Roman forces were ROUTED. A charge by the Immortals Cavalry caused the
entire Roman win to waver, until the GERMANIC OSTROGOTHS who had
learned cavalry warfare frmo the IRANIAN SARMATIANS when they came in
contact with the latter in what is now the Urkaine charged and saved
the day, causing a defeat of the Persian cavalry into whose rear and
flank they charged.
Your ignorance is better displayed here. There were no substantial
numbers of Germans in the armies of Belisarius. There were a number of
German officers but his mixed cavalry was mainly recruited in Thrace.
As to those who charged the Persian cavalry in the rear, there were
Huns, not Germanic Ostrogoths. You should go back and re-read the
battle for which we have many accurate accounts. But the final outcome
of that battle was a Persian defeat.
Nor have I stated that Rome was victorious more often than not. In
fact, Persia was a strong adversary and the Romans armies suffered a
number of defeats. The frontier was hotly disputed. But the eastern
frontier was only one of the preoccupations of the Roman empire. Its
fronts in Germany and the Danube, where the struggle with the Goths and
Huns were ongoing at the same time, consumed huge resources. However,
at the end of it all, it was Heraclius, who, in the first part of the
7th century really dealt severe defeats to the Persians (he captured
and burned Nineveh). The Arabs then picked the bones.
I just do not think that the Romans were any worse leeches on
Mesopotamia than the Persians. In fact, I think that the Persians were
probably worse leeches. So, what do we have here? A leech
competition?
ADR
Turkish-Republic-of-North-Cyprus
Here's a typical proof of Girik anti-anything racist idiot.
And they hate being hated. DUHHHH.....
--
Please visit http://www.atcanews.org/ and show your support for the Turkish
Cypriots cause for freedom. Thanks.
Dorian West
"Turkish-Republic-of-North-Cyprus" <TR...@Home-Of-Turkish-Cypriots.com> wrote
in message news:cpadt6$384$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> "Jason K. Lambrou" <jkl...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:H8Ztd.74250$Vk6....@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>> pema...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> You used to be called sirknight, but being and Arab stooge
>> and coward you stopped using it.
>> If you are a shiite or shitface or whatever the fuck you want to call
>> yourself, use the ARABIC alphabet, pray to mecca live next door to Arabs
>> and smell like camel piss, then you must be an ARAB.You perception of
>> your self means nothing to the rest of the world, the rest of the world
>> thinks you are the same sand niggers like the Arabs, with more mongol
>> features because the mongols fucked you real good.Now go back to your
>> 7-11 and get me a cold can of Bud, camel jockey.
>
> Here's a typical proof of Girik anti-anything racist idiot.
>
> And they hate being hated. DUHHHH.....
The whole world "loves" Turks. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Here, see for yourself.
http://www.rsvp.com.au/profile/profileDisplay.jsp?k=3700327110593457953&s=34532585&u=526718&t=MEMBER
pema...@yahoo.com
I am still sirknight, it's just that this new Google has fucked my name
up but I still say your MOM IS A DIRTY HAIRY GREEK WHORE
Second you piece of shit Orthodox christ worshipping cocksucker, I am
not a musilm, Shiite or Sunni. In case you are too STUPID to have
noticed by the posts I made in the past few years, while you were busy
sucking Turkish cock with your hairy Greek face, I am Zoroastrian, not
Muslim.
Third, I don't have Mongol features. I was born wtih platinum blond
hair wchih gradually evolved into the beautiful black hair with redish
tones i have today, with handsome features, a longish face, pale white
skin and 5'11 height and an athletic body as a result of practicing
Martial Arts and jogging for over 20 years.
You on the other hand, might have Mongol features, since some Turks are
actually descended from Turkomans and we all know that GREEKS WERE
MASSIVLEY GANGFUCKED By Turks durinng their orgies. In fact, YOUR WHORE
MOTHER, SISTER AND GRADMOTHER'S VAGINAS AND MOUTHS ARE PARKING LOTS FOR
PARTLY MONGOLOID AND PARTLY CAUCASOID BRAVE AND HORNY TURKISH WARRIORS.
I think they did your whore women a favor by fucking the Greek race
good, because that probably reduced the moustache and big noses on your
women a bit.
Slavs also did you a bit of favor by fucking your whore women, starved
for sex (since you Greeks have such small cocks), by causing your
generation to be taller than the dwarf greeks you usually come across.
And as for "nigger" I wouldn't use that word if I were you, judging by
the looks of the Greek soccer team, I'd say you are one kinky hair and
shade away from being considerd Africans, no doubt that reflects the
prehistoric Bushman legacy of Greece. UNfortunately for you Dwarf hairy
darkie greeks, you came up short on the penises that blacks have, since
you're all well..."challenged". So you're Greek NIGGERS with small
pricks, with whores for women, stinky goat breath and mustaches and
dwarf sized.
and as for getting you a cold one, the only cold one you'll get is the
rejection from that goat you and your filthy hairy backed Greek dwarf
kind have been trying to have sex wtih you fucking perverted sheep
fucking mountain nigger dwarf with curly hair you!
Jason K. Lambrou wrote:
<You used to be called sirknight, but being and Arab stooge
and coward you stopped using it.
If you are a shiite or shitface or whatever the fuck you want to call
yourself, use the ARABIC alphabet, pray to mecca live next door to
Arabs
and smell like camel piss, then you must be an ARAB.You perception of
your self means nothing to the rest of the world, the rest of the world
thinks you are the same sand niggers like the Arabs, with more mongol
features because the mongols fucked you real good.Now go back to your
7-11 and get me a cold can of Bud, camel jockey.>
Turkish-Republic-of-North-Cyprus
What, that's supposed to be proof of why you hate the Turks, little Girik
boy?
--
Please visit http://www.atcanews.org/ and show your support for the Turkish
Cypriots cause for freedom. Thanks.
>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 06/12/2004
Jason K. Lambrou
Whatever juju,how about posting something in turkish, and talk to
choro-nik,how about it cowboy
Jason K. Lambrou
> hey goat shit smelliong Greek buttfucker
>
> I am still sirknight, it's just that this new Google has fucked my name
> up but I still say your MOM IS A DIRTY HAIRY GREEK WHORE
>
> Second you piece of shit Orthodox christ worshipping cocksucker, I am
> not a musilm, Shiite or Sunni. In case you are too STUPID to have
> noticed by the posts I made in the past few years, while you were busy
> sucking Turkish cock with your hairy Greek face, I am Zoroastrian, not
> Muslim.
>
> Third, I don't have Mongol features.
here is something for you mongol face
Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%,
Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen 2%, other 1%
only 51% if Iran is Persian you lying camel jockey
the rest are mongols, Azeris,Turkmen,and Baloch are the sand niggers
I bet you got a long nose from your Arab boss and the mongol eyes of
of you father.So don't lie, go get me a cold sixpack of Budlight
and I hope the fucking buzzards vomit ovet your dead body you fucking
mongol
I was born wtih platinum blond
because your mother fucked an American sailor
> hair wchih gradually evolved into the beautiful black hair with redish
> tones i have today, with handsome features, a longish face, pale white
> skin and 5'11 height and an athletic body as a result of practicing
> Martial Arts and jogging for over 20 years.
pale white skin, shave your chest hair monkey
> You on the other hand, might have Mongol features, since some Turks are
> actually descended from Turkomans and we all know that GREEKS WERE
> MASSIVLEY GANGFUCKED By Turks durinng their orgies. In fact, YOUR WHORE
> MOTHER, SISTER AND GRADMOTHER'S VAGINAS AND MOUTHS ARE PARKING LOTS FOR
> PARTLY MONGOLOID AND PARTLY CAUCASOID BRAVE AND HORNY TURKISH WARRIORS.
> I think they did your whore women a favor by fucking the Greek race
> good, because that probably reduced the moustache and big noses on your
> women a bit.
Remember how many times wi kicked youre ass goat fucker
> Slavs also did you a bit of favor by fucking your whore women, starved
> for sex (since you Greeks have such small cocks), by causing your
> generation to be taller than the dwarf greeks you usually come across.
>
> And as for "nigger" I wouldn't use that word if I were you, judging by
> the looks of the Greek soccer team, I'd say you are one kinky hair and
> shade away from being considerd Africans, no doubt that reflects the
> prehistoric Bushman legacy of Greece. UNfortunately for you Dwarf hairy
> darkie greeks, you came up short on the penises that blacks have, since
> you're all well..."challenged". So you're Greek NIGGERS with small
> pricks, with whores for women, stinky goat breath and mustaches and
> dwarf sized.
>
> and as for getting you a cold one, the only cold one you'll get is the
> rejection from that goat you and your filthy hairy backed Greek dwarf
> kind have been trying to have sex wtih you fucking perverted sheep
> fucking mountain nigger dwarf with curly hair you!
Are a pull start or push start?is your turban too tight?