A powerful earthquake killed an estimated 3,000-5,000 people
.
Up to 5,000 dead in one county in China quake
Posted: 12 May 2008 2119 hrs
Photos 1 of 2
BEIJING - A powerful earthquake killed an estimated 3,000-5,000 people in
just one county of southwestern China's Sichuan province on Monday, Xinhua
news agency said.
The estimated death toll in Sichuan's Beichuan county was between 3,000 and
5,000 people, with 10,000 believed injured in the 7.8-magnitude quake, it
said, citing the Sichuan provincial disaster relief headquarters.
Xinhua said 80 percent of the buildings in the county were toppled by the
quake.
Prior to the estimated toll from Beichuan, official media reports said 107
people had been confirmed dead in the quake, which Chinese Premier Wen
Jiabao described as a "major disaster".
Beichuan is about 90 kilometres northeast of the epicentre in Wenchuan. -
AFP/ir
baldeagle
>
> BEIJING - A powerful earthquake killed an estimated 3,000-5,000 people in
> just one county of southwestern China's Sichuan province on Monday, Xinhua
> news agency said.
>
> The estimated death toll in Sichuan's Beichuan county was between 3,000 and
> 5,000 people, with 10,000 believed injured in the 7.8-magnitude quake, it
> said, citing the Sichuan provincial disaster relief headquarters.
Would US and UN demand China to issue visas for American (spies) to
get into China ?
Jim Walsh
(in article
<0af30c12-c316-4eaa...@k10g2000prm.googlegroups.com>):
No. Will the CCP try to steal the credit for relief donations from
foreigners? Probably.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)
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bmo...@nyx.net
Another tragedy, another opportunity for the beagle to use the
misfortune of others to bash the US. What an asshole.
.
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C44E8492...@news-east.alibis.com...
.
<bmo...@nyx.net> wrote in message
news:86ab5246-b566-4b54...@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
bmo...@nyx.net
> No
No, what? You don't think the beagle is using the tragedy to bash
America? Of course he is. It's obvious, right in front of you. You
must be blind or willfully ignorant not to see that.
> this is your best chance chance to screem FOUL by the chinese.
Then you misunderstand me. I expect the Chinese to handle this tragedy
quite well and make saving lives and helping people the #1 priority.
Unlike the way the Burmese junta has made consolidating their power
the #1 priority. You don't see the difference?
> misfortune of others to bash the US. What an asshole.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
baldeagle
>]
xxx
>
> > Would US and UN demand China to issue visas for American (spies) to
> > get into China ?
>
> No.
How do you know....are you the spokesman for the USA or
UN !
>...Will the CCP try to steal the credit for relief donations from
> foreigners? Probably.
So.... the relief donation for Katrina victims were stolen by the
US government....that was the reason why victimes in New
Orleans are still in the shit house....
baldeagle
US bashing ??
Didn't the US and the UN demanded visas for their "aid"
personnel to enter Myanmar ?
bmo...@nyx.net
You're so blinded by hate and ignorance that you can't even see that
you're using the tragedies in Burma and China as an excuse to spew
more misanthropic bile.
The reasonable people here know that there's no reasoning with your
ilk.
baldeagle
I'm blinded by Hate...... Wrong agains as usual.
I love America. Ask my girl friends in Hawaii and
in California...they'll swear that I love America.
Yes. There were tragedies in Myanmar. So the US and UN
took the opportunity to make political capital of the Myanmar's
misfortune. How mean and low can the US stoop.
It is as bad as lying about WMD to invade Iraq.
bmo...@nyx.net
> On May 13, 6:30 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 12, 3:26 pm, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
> > > On May 13, 2:26 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> > > > On May 12, 8:14 am, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
> > > > > Would US and UN demand China to issue visas for American (spies) to
> > > > > get into China ?
>
> > > > Another tragedy, another opportunity for the beagle to use the
> > > > misfortune of others to bash the US. What an asshole.
>
> > > US bashing ??
>
> > > Didn't the US and the UN demanded visas for their "aid"
> > > personnel to enter Myanmar ?
>
> > You're so blinded by hate and ignorance that you can't even see that
> > you're using the tragedies in Burma and China as an excuse to spew
> > more misanthropic bile.
>
> > The reasonable people here know that there's no reasoning with your
> > ilk.
>
> I'm blinded by Hate...... Wrong agains as usual.
> I love America. Ask my girl friends in Hawaii and
> in California...they'll swear that I love America.
Whatever. You sure come across as a jackass on this NG. I'm not
kidding.
> Yes. There were tragedies in Myanmar. So the US and UN
> took the opportunity to make political capital of the Myanmar's
> misfortune. How mean and low can the US stoop.
> It is as bad as lying about WMD to invade Iraq.
You are like all of the other idiots here with their one-sided biases.
Your debate style is laughable. You give the Chinese government a pass
in all cases, but you never give the US government a pass. You distort
the reality about the US government and you distort the reality about
the Chinese government. That's a fact and you can't change that fact
by simply denying it. You may love spending time in the US but that
makes your BS all the more hypocritical.
baldeagle
> On May 12, 3:41 pm, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> > I'm blinded by Hate...... Wrong again as usual.
> > I love America. Ask my girl friends in Hawaii and
> > in California...they'll swear that I love America.
>
> Whatever. What can you say...you cannot change
the truth.
> I'm not kidding.
You don't have the ability to kid.
>
> > Yes. There were tragedies in Myanmar. So the US and UN
> > took the opportunity to make political capital of the Myanmar's
> > misfortune. How mean and low can the US stoop.
> > It is as bad as lying about WMD to invade Iraq.
>
> .....like all of the other idiots here with their one-sided biases.
An apt description of yourself.
> Your debate style is laughable.
You don't have style... ha ha ha
> you never give the US government a pass.
The US failed miserably....in Iraq, in Guantanamo bay,
in water board torture, in human rights violation, in honesty,
in meddle in the domestic affairs of others, in CIA boo-boo,
in flawed democracy......in subprime debacle...
Almost as bad as N Korea.
How to give Bush government a pass !
How to give a pass...when US
Jim Walsh
(in article
<7e0e4945-ab34-4a00...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>):
Yes. So did the French and practically every other relief team. Nothing to do
with "spies", and you know it.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<83b3f6fd-142e-467d...@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com>):
> On May 12, 11:34 pm, Jim Walsh <jimNOwalsSPA...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
>>>
> xxx
>>
>>> Would US and UN demand China to issue visas for American (spies) to
>>> get into China ?
>>
>> No.
>
> How do you know....are you the spokesman for the USA or
> UN !
I predict it. And no, I am not their representative.
>> ...Will the CCP try to steal the credit for relief donations from
>> foreigners? Probably.
>
> So.... the relief donation for Katrina victims were stolen by the
> US government....that was the reason why victimes in New
> Orleans are still in the shit house....
No. Relief donations for Katrina victims were not stolen by the US
government.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<1fb28bef-5ea8-407b...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>):
False.
> How mean and low can the US stoop. It is as bad as lying about WMD to invade
Iraq.
--
baldeagle
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 06:26:55 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
>
> > On May 13, 2:26 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> >> On May 12, 8:14 am, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
> >>> Would US and UN demand China to issue visas for American (spies) to
> >>> get into China ?
>
> >> Another tragedy, another opportunity for the beagle to use the
> >> misfortune of others to bash the US. What an asshole.
>
> > US bashing ??
>
> > Didn't the US and the UN demanded visas for their "aid"
> > personnel to enter Myanmar ?
>
> Yes. So did the French and practically every other relief team. Nothing to do
> with "spies", and you know it.
>
baldeagle
> And no, I am not their representative.
Then you have no authority to speak for the USA and UN.
>
> >> ...Will the CCP try to steal the credit for relief donations from
> >> foreigners? Probably.
>
> > So.... the relief donation for Katrina victims were stolen by the
> > US government....that was the reason why victimes in New
> > Orleans are still in the shit house....
>
> No. Relief donations for Katrina victims were not stolen by the US
> government
Then where is the money donated? The victims are
NOT helped.
baldeagle
> (in article
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 6:30 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> >> On May 12, 3:26 pm, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
> >>> On May 13, 2:26 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> >>>> On May 12, 8:14 am, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Would US and UN demand China to issue visas for American (spies) to
> >>>>> get into China ?
>
> >>>> Another tragedy, another opportunity for the beagle to use the
> >>>> misfortune of others to bash the US. What an asshole.
>
> >>> US bashing ??
>
> >>> Didn't the US and the UN demanded visas for their "aid"
> >>> personnel to enter Myanmar ?
>
> >> You're so blinded by hate and ignorance that you can't even see that
> >> you're using the tragedies in Burma and China as an excuse to spew
> >> more misanthropic bile.
>
> >> The reasonable people here know that there's no reasoning with your
> >> ilk.
>
> > I'm blinded by Hate...... Wrong agains as usual.
> > I love America. Ask my girl friends in Hawaii and
> > in California...they'll swear that I love America.
>
> > Yes. There were tragedies in Myanmar. So the US and UN
> > took the opportunity to make political capital of the Myanmar's
> > misfortune.
>
> False.
Then, you do not know what is true or false, right or wrong.
bmo...@nyx.net
> On May 13, 6:59 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> > On May 12, 3:41 pm, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> > > I'm blinded by Hate...... Wrong again as usual.
> > > I love America. Ask my girl friends in Hawaii and
> > > in California...they'll swear that I love America.
>
> > Whatever. What can you say...you cannot change
>
> the truth.
>
> > I'm not kidding.
>
> You don't have the ability to kid.
Your world is so far from reality and you sit like a turd in the
toilet. Really.
> > > Yes. There were tragedies in Myanmar. So the US and UN
> > > took the opportunity to make political capital of the Myanmar's
> > > misfortune. How mean and low can the US stoop.
> > > It is as bad as lying about WMD to invade Iraq.
>
> > .....like all of the other idiots here with their one-sided biases.
>
> An apt description of yourself.
>
> > Your debate style is laughable.
>
> You don't have style... ha ha ha
>
> > you never give the US government a pass.
>
> The US failed miserably....in Iraq, in Guantanamo bay,
> in water board torture, in human rights violation, in honesty,
> in meddle in the domestic affairs of others, in CIA boo-boo,
> in flawed democracy......in subprime debacle...
> Almost as bad as N Korea.
>
> How to give Bush government a pass !
>
> How to give a pass...when US
You're a fucking idiot, and once again I'm not kidding.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<b20cc93e-0883-48eb...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>):
French aid workers were blocked and since you admit that they had not
ambition in Myanmar, you must acknowledge that blocking them was a "mistake"
or worse.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<88a6e095-9858-41fc...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>):
The American Red Cross (merely one of the many groups that received donations
to help Katrina victims) did wonderful work with the money; as you know (or
should know).
achtung
puhk oz
"baldeagle" <botak...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote in message
news:0af30c12-c316-4eaa...@k10g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
baldeagle
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:50:52 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 9:40 am, Jim Walsh <jimNOwalsSPA...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 13 May 2008 06:26:55 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> >> (in article
> >> <7e0e4945-ab34-4a00-93e2-03e0ef46e...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>):
>
> >>> On May 13, 2:26 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> >>>> On May 12, 8:14 am, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Would US and UN demand China to issue visas for American (spies) to
> >>>>> get into China ?
>
> >>>> Another tragedy, another opportunity for the beagle to use the
> >>>> misfortune of others to bash the US. What an asshole.
>
> >>> US bashing ??
>
> >>> Didn't the US and the UN demanded visas for their "aid"
> >>> personnel to enter Myanmar ?
>
> >> Yes. So did the French and practically every other relief team. Nothing to
> >> do with "spies", and you know it.
>
> > The French did not have NED...has no ambition in Myanmar.
>
> French aid workers were blocked and since you admit that they had not
> ambition in Myanmar, you must acknowledge that blocking them was a "mistake"
> or worse.
baldeagle
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:53:40 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 9:40 am, Jim Walsh <jimNOwalsSPA...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
>
> >> And no, I am not their representative.
>
> > Then you have no authority to speak for the USA and UN.
>
> >>>> ...Will the CCP try to steal the credit for relief donations from
> >>>> foreigners? Probably.
>
> >>> So.... the relief donation for Katrina victims were stolen by the
> >>> US government....that was the reason why victimes in New
> >>> Orleans are still in the shit house....
>
> >> No. Relief donations for Katrina victims were not stolen by the US
> >> government
>
> > Then where is the money donated? The victims are
> > NOT helped.
>
> The American Red Cross (merely one of the many groups that received donations
> to help Katrina victims) did wonderful work with the money; as you know (or
> should know).
>
baldeagle
> "baldeagle" <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote in message
So is Myanmar...they did not ask the USA for help..
yet they tried too hard to enter Myanmar.
Do you know why ?
ltl...@hotmail.com
> On May 13, 6:59 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> > On May 12, 3:41 pm, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> > > I'm blinded by Hate...... Wrong again as usual.
> > > I love America. Ask my girl friends in Hawaii and
> > > in California...they'll swear that I love America.
>
> > Whatever. What can you say...you cannot change
>
> the truth.
>
> > I'm not kidding.
>
> You don't have the ability to kid.
>
>
>
> > > Yes. There were tragedies in Myanmar. So the US and UN
> > > took the opportunity to make political capital of the Myanmar's
> > > misfortune. How mean and low can the US stoop.
> > > It is as bad as lying about WMD to invade Iraq.
>
> > .....like all of the other idiots here with their one-sided biases.
>
> An apt description of yourself.
>
> > Your debate style is laughable.
>
> You don't have style... ha ha ha
>
> > you never give the US government a pass.
>
> The US failed miserably....in Iraq, in Guantanamo bay,
> in water board torture, in human rights violation, in honesty,
> in meddle in the domestic affairs of others, in CIA boo-boo,
> in flawed democracy......in subprime debacle...
> Almost as bad as N Korea.
Of course, many don't like the results of their system. However, if
you ask them how they could or would imporve their system, they would
come up with a big emptiness. What else could they do but to give the
US government a pss?
> How to give Bush government a pass !
>
> How to give a pass...when US
>
> You distort
>
>
>
> > the reality about the US government and you distort the reality about
> > the Chinese government. That's a fact and you can't change that fact
> > by simply denying it. You may love spending time in the US but that
> > makes your BS all the more hypocritical.- Hide quoted text -
Jim Walsh
(in article
<9f400057-2f9d-4f65...@y22g2000prd.googlegroups.com>):
Nah. You don't believe anything that disagrees with your prejudices.
You know how to google "Red Cross Katrina" and how to read the hits. But
endless articles from the web sites of respected newspapers and magazines
would leave you unconvinced.
I often do research for those who might be willing to learn from my effort,
but you don't appear to be such a person.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<55857a6c-5fb5-4829...@b9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>):
Foreigners who rushed to bring disaster relief to the people of Myanmar
begged the generals, who live as parasites on the labor of the Burmese, to
let them deliver the desperately needed water, food and building supplies.
The thugs and goons refused, caring not a whit for the people of the country
they rule.
The word "demand" is not correct.
Frankly were I in charge of the zoo, I would have arranged for soldiers from
various countries to defend the delivery of aid, and told the junta to suck
seed. Any Generals who resisted would have been arrested.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<920582b8-8d18-4080...@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>):
First you say "French did not have NED...has no ambition in Myanmar", but
when you learned that the junta barred them, you reversed your position. Now
the French are evil.
What ever tyrants say, you believe. That is pretty silly of you.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<5fc8849c-0468-4b2d...@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>):
>
>>
>> China don't need any help !
>
> So is Myanmar...they did not ask the USA for help.. yet they tried too hard
> to enter Myanmar. Do you know why ?
Of course Myanmar needs help. The cyclone struck May 2nd. Large sections of
Myanmar have not yet received relief (11 days later).
baldeagle
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 18:11:17 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 1:39 pm, Jim Walsh <jimNOwalsSPA...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:53:40 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> >> (in article
> >> <88a6e095-9858-41fc-b940-fbc3ab1ae...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>):
>
> >>> On May 13, 9:40 am, Jim Walsh <jimNOwalsSPA...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> And no, I am not their representative.
>
> >>> Then you have no authority to speak for the USA and UN.
>
> >>>>>> ...Will the CCP try to steal the credit for relief donations from
> >>>>>> foreigners? Probably.
>
> >>>>> So.... the relief donation for Katrina victims were stolen by the
> >>>>> US government....that was the reason why victimes in New
> >>>>> Orleans are still in the shit house....
>
> >>>> No. Relief donations for Katrina victims were not stolen by the US
> >>>> government
>
> >>> Then where is the money donated? The victims are NOT helped.
>
> >> The American Red Cross (merely one of the many groups that received
> >> donations to help Katrina victims) did wonderful work with the money; as you
> know (or
> >> should know).
>
> > Show us proof
>
> Nah. You don't believe anything that disagrees with your prejudices.
>
The Katrina reality is....NO body in US government cared...not
even Bush cared....
In fact, a former Presidential candidate want to impeached Bush
for "the neglect of Hurricane Katrina's victims."
baldeagle
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 18:10:48 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
Yes. French did not have NED...the US organisation that took
over covert operation to overthrow unfriendly government.
If their aid organisation is NOT linked to US organisation,
then there is no reason why they should be barred.
May be ...since Sakosky took over as president, he had
like Blair ...become the puppy dog of the USA.
baldeagle
> (in article
>
>
>
> >> China don't need any help !
>
> > So is Myanmar...they did not ask the USA for help.. yet they tried too hard
> > to enter Myanmar. Do you know why ?
>
> Of course Myanmar needs help
You as head of Myanmar government said so ??
The real leader of Myanmar do not want aid with
string attached. Period.
puhk oz
Were there any donation to Katrina victims in the first place ? If there were no
donation, what money are you talking about ?
mohor-yan
and debris. If you are in a desert during earth quake, you would love to
experience this rumbling vibration and noises.
"." <.@home.com> wrote in message news:g09dua$hok$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg...
> Jim Walsh or Jim Wash tell the world what can China do wrong this time?
>
>
>
> Up to 5,000 dead in one county in China quake
> Posted: 12 May 2008 2119 hrs
>
>
> Photos 1 of 2
>
>
>
>
>
> BEIJING - A powerful earthquake killed an estimated 3,000-5,000 people in
> just one county of southwestern China's Sichuan province on Monday, Xinhua
> news agency said.
>
> The estimated death toll in Sichuan's Beichuan county was between 3,000
> and
> 5,000 people, with 10,000 believed injured in the 7.8-magnitude quake, it
> said, citing the Sichuan provincial disaster relief headquarters.
>
> Xinhua said 80 percent of the buildings in the county were toppled by the
> quake.
>
> Prior to the estimated toll from Beichuan, official media reports said 107
> people had been confirmed dead in the quake, which Chinese Premier Wen
> Jiabao described as a "major disaster".
>
> Beichuan is about 90 kilometres northeast of the epicentre in Wenchuan. -
> AFP/ir
>
>
>
>
>
Jim Walsh
(in article
<7b8db64e-945c-45f9...@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com>):
>
> The real leader of Myanmar do not want aid with string attached. Period.
The real leader of Myanmar is under house arrest. You claim to have chatted
up some of her supporters.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<4f624665-c02d-4529...@q24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):
I do not dispute Bush's incompetence. I have been shouting out his
incompetence even before he was elected governor of Texas.
I challenged your statement that "So.... the relief donation for Katrina
victims were stolen by the US government....that was the reason why victimes
in New Orleans are still in the shit house...."
I am confident that any rational person examining the evidence will agree
that (for example) money donated to the Red Cross was spent giving aid and
was not stolen by the US government.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0bt8v$je7$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
>
> Were there any donation to Katrina victims in the first place ? If there were
> no donation, what money are you talking about ?
Yes. Millions of private donations were made to the Red Cross alone.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<b288009c-a11f-434c...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>):
>
> If their aid organisation is NOT linked to US organisation, then there is no
> reason why they should be barred.
I will take it that you now join the world in condemning the junta from
barring French relief workers from entering Burma.
baldeagle
> "baldeagle" <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote in message
Yes. Almost a BILLION dollars were donated by
foreign governments to Katrina victims...
BUT most of the donation NEVER reach the victims
of Katrina. See attached ABC news report.
baldeagle
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 20:02:10 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
>
>
>
> > The real leader of Myanmar do not want aid with string attached. Period.
>
> The real leader of Myanmar is under house arrest.
That bitch..who sold her soul to the devil (USA) is
not a leader....she is the proxy for the USA.
baldeagle
>
>
>
> > Were there any donation to Katrina victims in the first place ? If there were
> > no donation, what money are you talking about ?
>
> Yes. Millions of private donations were made to the Red Cross alone.
>
the private account of Bush and his corrupted cronnies
baldeagle
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 19:57:10 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
If not stolen by the US govenment, where has the billion
dollar gone ....vapourised into thin air ?? ha ha ha
Tell me...what happened to the money donated by
foreign countries.
baldeagle
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 20:00:39 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
>
>
>
> > If their aid organisation is NOT linked to US organisation, then there is no
> > reason why they should be barred.
>
> I will take it that you now join the world in condemning the junta from
> barring French relief workers from entering Burma.
in the real world.
bmo...@nyx.net
Many people on this NG who talk about problems in China obviously do
*not* give the US government a pass. So as usual, LT is being
dishonest. LT gives a pass to anything that supports his agenda. And
anything that does not support his agenda, no matter how valid, gets
a piss.
>
>
>
> > How to give Bush government a pass !
>
> > How to give a pass...when US
>
> > You distort
>
> > > the reality about the US government and you distort the reality about
> > > the Chinese government. That's a fact and you can't change that fact
> > > by simply denying it. You may love spending time in the US but that
> > > makes your BS all the more hypocritical.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
bmo...@nyx.net
Once again the beagle copies words from others. But since the beagle
knows not of the real world, the beagle once again comes across as a
child with little to say.
bmo...@nyx.net
Yeah, she was only elected by her people. The fact that you call her a
bitch says nothing about her but everything about you. Of course we on
this NG already know everything we need to know about you. And it's
ugly.
bmo...@nyx.net
Yet they *are* being barred. So the beagle is wrong yet again.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSBKK54809
BANGKOK, May 12 (Reuters) - A furious rescue worker accused Myanmar's
military junta on Monday of crimes against humanity for refusing to
give visas to aid officials desperate to enter the country to help the
1.5 million survivors of Cyclone Nargis.
"They say they will call, but it's always wait, wait, wait," Pierre
Fouillant of the Comite de Secours Internationaux, a French disaster
rescue agency, told Reuters after being turned away from the former
Burma's embassy in the Thai capital.
"I've never seen delays like this, never," said Fouillant, a veteran
of 10 humanitarian disasters. "It's a crime against humanity. It
should be against the law. It's like they are taking a gun and
shooting their own people."
[...]
baldeagle
> > You can take it that you do not know what is happening
> > in the real world.
>
> Once again the beagle copies words from others. But since the beagle
> knows not of the real world, the beagle once again comes across as a
> child with little to say.
You are deluded....by Western spins. Your mind is not
capable of seeing reality.
baldeagle
> On May 13, 8:09 am, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
> > On May 13, 10:01 pm, Jim Walsh <jimNOwalsSPA...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Tue, 13 May 2008 20:02:10 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> > > (in article
> > > <7b8db64e-945c-45f9-8c92-6c12a75e4...@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com>):
>
> > > > The real leader of Myanmar do not want aid with string attached. Period.
>
> > > The real leader of Myanmar is under house arrest.
>
> > That bitch..who sold her soul to the devil (USA) is
> > not a leader....she is the proxy for the USA.
>
> Yeah, she was only elected by her people.
Yes. She was elected years ago. But she failed
to become the leader in Myanmar.
Just like in Thailand not long ago...the popularly elected
leader, Thaksin was kicked out of office. This happen
often everywhere.
She is NOT the leader, nor the ruler in Myanmar...you
are deluded.
baldeagle
>
>
> > Yes. French did not have NED...the US organisation that took
> > over covert operation to overthrow unfriendly government.
>
> > If their aid organisation is NOT linked to US organisation,
> > then there is no reason why they should be barred.
>
> Yet they *are* being barred.
Then, it is because they are US puppy dogs. Asia and Asean
have no such problems
achtung
Jim Walsh
(in article
<b189b4e5-27c9-48f8...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>):
Mr. Baldeagle claimed, in reference to my statement about the Red Cross,
"most of the billions" disappeared into Bush and his cronies private
accounts.
He posted a URL, and I have posted the entire article below.
There is not a single sentence in support of his claim in the article he
cited. Incompetence, yes. Bush is/was/has always been incompetent. Stealing
from Red Cross or foreign countries donations? No.
Foreign Countries Offer Nearly $1 Billion, but Little of it Gets to Victims
By STEPHANIE SY
April 29, 2007
As the victims of Hurricane Katrina continue their struggle to recover, they
are now learning that millions of dollars in promised aid from foreign
countries never reached them. According to government documents obtained by
Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), only a fraction
of the nearly $1 billion pledged by foreign governments was ever collected,
amounting to $126 million. And according to a Washington Post report, only
$40 million has been used for the victims.
The amount of offers that poured into the State Department after Katrina was
unprecedented, and an internal report last year found that there were not
procedures in place to handle international assistance. "It was a new
circumstance," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said on ABC News' This
Week with George Stephanopoulos. "The United States is, frankly, not
accustomed to receiving large-scale foreign assistance offers."
In many cases, countries were advised to donate the money to private
organizations. Kuwait, for example, made the largest offer, consisting of
$100 million in cash and $400 million in oil. They gave $25 million to the
Bush-Katrina fund and $25 million to the American Red Cross. They plan to
donate $50 million more, but it is unclear what will come of the $400 million
oil pledge.
Melanie Sloan, director of CREW, said "the government was incompetent" in its
handling of international assistance. "They were & saying, 'Thanks, we do
want all that money,' but then they had no mechanism in place at all to
actually get the money from the countries who offered it to the people who
needed it," she said.
In once instance, she noted, medical supplies from Italy had be thrown out
because they had spoiled from not being properly stored. In another case, the
United States initially accepted the offer of two Greek cruise ships to house
displaced residents. But when technical issues delayed the ships, the United
States rejected the offer.
Former New Orleans mayor and National Urban League president Marc Morial
called the revelations, "stunning, especially since many of the nations with
whom we have had historically great relations & offered to help the United
States and its people. I think we should welcome that assistance."
Morial recently visited the devastated areas, and said the funds are still
desperately needed. "It's painful because the needs are still real," he said.
"People are still living in trailers. If you go through the ninth ward, there
are large stretches where, obviously, there's been no rebuilding."
Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., is demanding Congressional hearings on the matter
in reaction to the Washington Post report. She released a statement, which
reads, "Louisiana and the Gulf Coast deserve better. America deserves better.
And while we did not seek handouts, a hand up was and remains sorely needed."
State Department officials told ABC News that since Katrina, procedures to
deal with accepting foreign aid have been put in place.
End of article.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<9df13e43-49ea-493f...@d19g2000prm.googlegroups.com>):
>
> Dalai Lam has cursed the Chinese nation with bad karma
Nonsense.
1. He wouldn't even if he could.
2. He can't.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<f17c7a79-cce8-4498...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>):
She (not you and not the junta) was elected by the Burmese people.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<aa86544a-b38d-42f7...@z16g2000prn.googlegroups.com>):
>
> Then, it is because they are US puppy dogs. Asia and Asean have no such
> problems
The thugs and goons running Burma would rather let Burmese suffer and die
than behave humanely.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<0b2726f9-a180-465b...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com>):
Agree that thugs and goons rule Burma by force of arms. Willing to kill
unarmed Burmese, they should be put in prison.
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C450C117...@news-east.alibis.com...
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 07:37:50 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
> <0b2726f9-a180-465b...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com>):
>
>> On May 14, 1:12 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>>> On May 13, 8:09 am, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On May 13, 10:01 pm, Jim Walsh <jimNOwalsSPA...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 20:02:10 +0800, baldeagle wrote
>>>>> (in article
>>>>> <7b8db64e-945c-45f9-8c92-6c12a75e4...@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com>):
>>>
>>>>>> The real leader of Myanmar do not want aid with string attached. Period.
>>>
>>>>> The real leader of Myanmar is under house arrest.
>>>
>>>> That bitch..who sold her soul to the devil (USA) is
>>>> not a leader....she is the proxy for the USA.
>>>
>>> Yeah, she was only elected by her people.
>>
>> Yes. She was elected years ago. But she failed
>> to become the leader in Myanmar.
>> Just like in Thailand not long ago...the popularly elected
>> leader, Thaksin was kicked out of office. This happen
>> often everywhere.
>> She is NOT the leader, nor the ruler in Myanmar...you
>> are deluded.
>
> Agree that thugs and goons rule Burma by force of arms. Willing to kill
> unarmed Burmese, they should be put in prison.
>
> --
If the people do not support their government, why are they expecting the
government to help them when in need? On the contrary, in China, the people
support their government, communist or otherwise! When they are in need, even
the Prime Minister went all out to assist. The people in Myanmar should learn
the lesson and not supporting the western propaganda to go against their own
government!
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 23:09:02 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
> <f17c7a79-cce8-4498...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>):
>
>> On May 13, 10:01 pm, Jim Walsh <jimNOwalsSPA...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 20:02:10 +0800, baldeagle wrote
>>> (in article
>>> <7b8db64e-945c-45f9-8c92-6c12a75e4...@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com>):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The real leader of Myanmar do not want aid with string attached. Period.
>>>
>>> The real leader of Myanmar is under house arrest.
>>
>> That bitch..who sold her soul to the devil (USA) is
>> not a leader....she is the proxy for the USA.
>>
>
> She (not you and not the junta) was elected by the Burmese people.
>
Elected or not, the people who has real power is the real leader. On the other
hand, calling someone who was elected by the people "bitch" only show how low
this person can go, lower than a bitch or may be son of a bitch himself.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0e2vv$ldn$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
>
> Elected or not, the people who has real power is the real leader.
According to you the armed robber is the real owner of the money. That is of
course absurd.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0e2nq$ldj$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
>
> If the people do not support their government, why are they expecting the
> government to help them when in need?
The correct relationship between people and their government is employer and
employee.
The people are (should be) the employer and the government is (should be) the
employee.
Employers who are unhappy with their employees are entitled to fire them.
Employees are not entitled to demand obedience/support from their employer.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0e2nq$ldj$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
> On the contrary, in China, the people support their government, communist or
> otherwise!
The CCP has not been elected in the PRC. Until it is, it is not a legitimate
government.
baldeagle
> >
> >> Yes. Millions of private donations were made to the Red Cross alone.
>
> > Yes. But most of the billions disappeared into
> > the private account of Bush and his corrupted cronnies
>
> >http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=3098997&page=1
>
> Mr. Baldeagle claimed, in reference to my statement about the Red Cross,
> "most of the billions" disappeared into Bush and his cronies private
> accounts.
You said no donation for Katrina victims was received.
Quote: ">>> no donation, what money are you talking
about ?"
You were lying. A billions dollars were donated.
You are a liar.
ABC reported the money was received by the "State
Department", but Rice said the USA has NO control
procedure, nor procedure to account for the money
donated.
ABC reported out of the 1,000 millions " only
$40 million has been used for the victims."
Who is at the top of the State Department, Bush.
If he had not spent it on the Katrina victims, where
is the money. The obvious conclusion ...he has
taken it.
What has he done with the money...if you think
that he has not taken it.
baldeagle
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 07:37:50 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 14, 1:12 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> >> On May 13, 8:09 am, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
> >>> On May 13, 10:01 pm, Jim Walsh <jimNOwalsSPA...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 20:02:10 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> >>>> (in article
> >>>> <7b8db64e-945c-45f9-8c92-6c12a75e4...@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com>):
>
> >>>>> The real leader of Myanmar do not want aid with string attached. Period.
>
> >>>> The real leader of Myanmar is under house arrest.
>
> >>> That bitch..who sold her soul to the devil (USA) is
> >>> not a leader....she is the proxy for the USA.
>
> >> Yeah, she was only elected by her people.
>
> > Yes. She was elected years ago. But she failed
> > to become the leader in Myanmar.
> > Just like in Thailand not long ago...the popularly elected
> > leader, Thaksin was kicked out of office. This happen
> > often everywhere.
> > She is NOT the leader, nor the ruler in Myanmar...you
> > are deluded.
>
> Agree that thugs and goons rule Burma by force of arms. Willing to kill
> unarmed Burmese, they should be put in prison.
>
the real leader.
By calling the leader of a country.. names reflect badly on you,...not
them.
You are a moron.
Raymond
wrote:
>Dalai Lam has cursed the Chinese nation with bad karma
The Devil can't curse anyone except himself because there is
absolutely no truth in whatever the Devil says.
>
>On May 14, 7:31?am, baldeagle <botakea...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>> On May 14, 1:10?am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>>
>> > > ?You can take it that you do not know what is happening
bmo...@nyx.net
> On May 14, 3:40 am, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Yes. French did not have NED...the US organisation that took
> > > over covert operation to overthrow unfriendly government.
>
> > > If their aid organisation is NOT linked to US organisation,
> > > then there is no reason why they should be barred.
>
> > Yet they *are* being barred.
>
> Then, it is because they are US puppy dogs.
Just before you said they should be admitted. Now that they have not
been admitted, you call them US puppy dogs, even though they're not.
You just make stuff up to go along with your agenda. Your opinion is
worthless.
> Asia and Asean
> have no such problems
>
>
>
>
>
> >http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSBKK54809
>
> > BANGKOK, May 12 (Reuters) - A furious rescue worker accused Myanmar's
> > military junta on Monday of crimes against humanity for refusing to
> > give visas to aid officials desperate to enter the country to help the
> > 1.5 million survivors of Cyclone Nargis.
>
> > "They say they will call, but it's always wait, wait, wait," Pierre
> > Fouillant of the Comite de Secours Internationaux, a French disaster
> > rescue agency, told Reuters after being turned away from the former
> > Burma's embassy in the Thai capital.
>
> > "I've never seen delays like this, never," said Fouillant, a veteran
> > of 10 humanitarian disasters. "It's a crime against humanity. It
> > should be against the law. It's like they are taking a gun and
> > shooting their own people."
>
> > [...]
>
> > > May be ...since Sakosky took over as president, he had
> > > like Blair ...become the puppy dog of the USA- Hide quoted text -
baldeagle
>
> > Then, it is because they are US puppy dogs.
>Your opinion is worthless.
You cannot think for yourself, you
are brainless.
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 16:45:05 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
> (in article <g0e2nq$ldj$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
>
>>
>> If the people do not support their government, why are they expecting the
>> government to help them when in need?
>
> The correct relationship between people and their government is employer and
> employee.
>
> The people are (should be) the employer and the government is (should be) the
> employee.
>
> Employers who are unhappy with their employees are entitled to fire them.
>
> Employees are not entitled to demand obedience/support from their employer.
>
Which government really treat themselves as employee and the people as
employers, at most, during the election time. Nowadays, government don't sign
off as "your obedient servant" anymore when they write letter to the people.
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 16:45:05 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
> (in article <g0e2nq$ldj$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
>
>> On the contrary, in China, the people support their government, communist or
>> otherwise!
>
> The CCP has not been elected in the PRC. Until it is, it is not a legitimate
> government.
>
CCP had liberated the people from the control of warlords in China and became
their legitimate leaders. CCP are elected as leader and government under a
different election system.
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 16:49:32 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
> (in article <g0e2vv$ldn$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
>
>>
>> Elected or not, the people who has real power is the real leader.
>
> According to you the armed robber is the real owner of the money. That is of
> course absurd.
>
Until the money is recovered by the police, the armed robber is the real owner
of your money when you are robbed. CCP did not rob the people but they recovered
the money on behalf of the people from the warlords in China, they had also
recovered the human right from the lamas in Tibet.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<d19681d6-ba87-4250...@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>):
The article clearly says what happened. Most of the 1 billion was never sent
to America. And o money was stolen by Bush. Read carefully.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0gbe8$m9d$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
>
> CCP had liberated the people from the control of warlords in China and became
> their legitimate leaders. CCP are elected as leader and government under a
> different election system.
They were not elected. There is no "different election system". Either there
are multiple candidates, each free to campaign, and secret ballots, or there
is not an election.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0gb2o$m99$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
> Nowadays, government don't sign off as "your obedient servant" anymore when
> they write letter to the people.
Sure they do.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0gb2o$m99$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
>
> Which government really treat themselves as employee and the people as
> employers, at most,
All democratically elected officials know they are employees of the people
and (at least) pretend to act that way. They would not be elected if they
didn't.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0gbmg$m9f$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
>
> Until the money is recovered by the police, the armed robber is the real
> owner of your money
Nonsense. A thief never gains ownership of the stolen property.
Because title to stolen property remains with the legal owner, ...., [even] a
bona fide purchaser from a thief obtains nothing.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=ok&vol=/appeals/2006/&i
nvol=448024
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 12:51:03 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
> (in article <g0gbmg$m9f$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
>
>>
>> Until the money is recovered by the police, the armed robber is the real
>> owner of your money
>
> Nonsense. A thief never gains ownership of the stolen property.
>
> Because title to stolen property remains with the legal owner, ...., [even] a
> bona fide purchaser from a thief obtains nothing.
>
>
You are talking on legal point. BUT ! The fact is the robber is the owner and
can use the money as he like until the money is recovered by the police !
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 12:46:39 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
> (in article <g0gbe8$m9d$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
>
>>
>> CCP had liberated the people from the control of warlords in China and became
>
>> their legitimate leaders. CCP are elected as leader and government under a
>> different election system.
>
> They were not elected. There is no "different election system". Either there
> are multiple candidates, each free to campaign, and secret ballots, or there
> is not an election.
>
China, Honk Kong and Macau have their own election system. There is no one
election system that will be fair or that is suitable to the whole world ! Even
the US system is not the best system. Hillary and Obama are equally supported by
the Democrats, both should be allowed to stand for election against the
Republican old man !
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 12:40:29 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
> (in article <g0gb2o$m99$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
>
>> Nowadays, government don't sign off as "your obedient servant" anymore when
>> they write letter to the people.
>
> Sure they do.
>
> --
I have no see any letter from the government sign off as "obedient servant".
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0go61$mvb$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
> You are talking on legal point. BUT ! The fact is the robber is the owner and
> can use the money as he like until the money is recovered by the police !
So, it seems you believe that until the police catch the rapist, he is the
woman's legal husband. LOL.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0gof4$mvj$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
Well, first, where do you live?
Second, the phrase you chose sounds a bit old-fashioned these days.
Third, let's pick a website of a typical elected official. Perhaps the Member
of Congress from the second district in Washington State. His name, as it
turns out is Rick Larsen.
Upper left hand corner is a button, entitled "How Can I Help?" That is a
modern way for a politician to say "I am your employee."
You may want to try a different district or a different state. I guess you
will find that "How can I help?'" or similar words will be prominently
displayed on the website.
Try the website of any elected government official in any democratic country.
I predict that somewhere you will find the words "How can I help?" or
something similar.
They know perfectly well who is the boss, and who is the employee.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0goco$mvf$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
>
> "Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C451F9DE...@news-east.alibis.com...
>> On Thu, 15 May 2008 12:46:39 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
>> (in article <g0gbe8$m9d$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
>>
>>>
>>> CCP had liberated the people from the control of warlords in China and
>>> became
>>
>>> their legitimate leaders. CCP are elected as leader and government under a
>>> different election system.
>>
>> They were not elected. There is no "different election system". Either there
>> are multiple candidates, each free to campaign, and secret ballots, or there
>> is not an election.
>>
>
> China, Honk Kong and Macau have their own election system.
False. Except for positions like village chief (which unfortunately have no
power) there are no elections at all in China.
Hong Kong has a limited system. The "mayor" is appointed by the CCP (acting
thru 800 representatives selected by the CCP). About half of the city
legislature is elected.
I am not familiar with the details of Macau, but considering the fact that
Hong Kong's local government is not elected, I would be astonished if Macau's
were.
> There is no one
> election system that will be fair or that is suitable to the whole world !
Yes, and no.
Certain basic features are common to all systems of democratic elections:
freedom of speech, several candidates, secret ballot and so on.
The other details vary from place to place.
> Even the US system is not the best system.
The US system contains the minimum basic features common to all democratic
elections.
>Hillary and Obama are equally supported by
> the Democrats, both should be allowed to stand for election against the
> Republican old man.
That is your opinion (and a silly one -- no political party would offer two
candidates, splitting its vote, letting a weaker but more united win).
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
"How can I help" is always used between salesperson and customers not employer
and employee!
Employee should know what he/she is supposed to do and should not be asking such
question !
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 17:07:03 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
> (in article <g0goco$mvf$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
>
>>
>> "Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
>> news:0001HW.C451F9DE...@news-east.alibis.com...
>>> On Thu, 15 May 2008 12:46:39 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
>>> (in article <g0gbe8$m9d$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
>>>
>>>>
>>>> CCP had liberated the people from the control of warlords in China and
>>>> became
>>>
>>>> their legitimate leaders. CCP are elected as leader and government under a
>>>> different election system.
>>>
>>> They were not elected. There is no "different election system". Either there
>>> are multiple candidates, each free to campaign, and secret ballots, or there
>>> is not an election.
>>>
>>
>> China, Honk Kong and Macau have their own election system.
>
> False. Except for positions like village chief (which unfortunately have no
> power) there are no elections at all in China.
>
> Hong Kong has a limited system. The "mayor" is appointed by the CCP (acting
> thru 800 representatives selected by the CCP). About half of the city
> legislature is elected.
>
> I am not familiar with the details of Macau, but considering the fact that
> Hong Kong's local government is not elected, I would be astonished if Macau's
> were.
>
Yes, you are not familiar with the whole China system. To you, the people cannot
elect their leader but to the people, that is a way for the country to progress
! It is more important than your "democratic system". There are no "mayor" in
Hong Kong !
>
>> There is no one
>> election system that will be fair or that is suitable to the whole world !
>
> Yes, and no.
>
> Certain basic features are common to all systems of democratic elections:
> freedom of speech, several candidates, secret ballot and so on.
>
> The other details vary from place to place.
>
"freedom of speech, several candidates, secret ballot and so on".
What good does it make if such system can be easily abused and worst abused by
foreigners !
>> Even the US system is not the best system.
>
> The US system contains the minimum basic features common to all democratic
> elections.
>
>>Hillary and Obama are equally supported by
>> the Democrats, both should be allowed to stand for election against the
>> Republican old man.
>
> That is your opinion (and a silly one -- no political party would offer two
> candidates, splitting its vote, letting a weaker but more united win).
>
You see ! You have not change your mindset about democratcy! Is the party more
important than the people! If both democrat candiates have almost same support,
why shouldn't the people's choice be respected ? You see, if only one democrat
candidate can stand for election, it means US election system is not a good
system. Why should there be only two candidates for president?
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 17:03:28 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
> (in article <g0go61$mvb$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg>):
>
>> You are talking on legal point. BUT ! The fact is the robber is the owner and
>
>> can use the money as he like until the money is recovered by the police !
>
> So, it seems you believe that until the police catch the rapist, he is the
> woman's legal husband. LOL.
>
No! At the time the money is still in his hand !
Rape is different , may be only for that few minute !
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0igqa$ngm$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
> employer and employee.
Customers are the boss.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0ihqq$nhc$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
> Why should there be only two candidates for president?
There never has been an election in America with only two candidates.
You may be interested to know that the Communist Party of the USA is not
running a candidate for the Presidency this year. The Party has all but
endorsed the candidate of the Democratic Party, whomever that may be.
For a pretty comprehensive list of the candidates, go to wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
Customers are the boss, are you sure ?
Customers can only look like the boss but in actual fact, almost everything are
decided by the salespersons.
hslaw mij
"Jim Walsh" <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote in message
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 08:48:01 +0800, hslaw mij wrote
> (in article <g0ihqq$nhc$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
>
>> Why should there be only two candidates for president?
>
> There never has been an election in America with only two candidates.
>
> You may be interested to know that the Communist Party of the USA is not
> running a candidate for the Presidency this year. The Party has all but
> endorsed the candidate of the Democratic Party, whomever that may be.
>
> http://cpusa.org
>
> For a pretty comprehensive list of the candidates, go to wikipedia.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008
>
There are only two main parties, democrat and republican, the rest are for show.
That is the US democratic system !
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0jf62$o37$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
First you complain that there are only two. Shown that there are more than
two you still complain. Hard to please, eh?
Odd that you support a one-party government, given this difficulty to please.
Jim Walsh
(in article <g0jf62$o37$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg>):
In the PRC, there is only one real party, the CCP. The others (the legal
ones, anyway) have to obey the CCP.
None of the "for show" smaller parties in the USA have to obey any other
party.
And the "for show" smaller parties occasionally win. For example, currently
one of the Senators from Vermont and one of the Senators from Connecticut are
independents (belong to neither the Democratic nor the Republican Party).
PaPaPeng
<jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
>False. Except for positions like village chief (which unfortunately have no
>power) there are no elections at all in China.
BOOK REVIEW
One mainland, two systems
Rural Democracy in China by Baogang He
Reviewed by Sreeram Chaulia
February 2, 2008
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JB02Ad01.html
Since the formal promulgation of the Organic Law of Village Committees
in 1987, about 800 million rural Chinese have experienced
semi-competitive elections. Due to the domination of communist party
cadres over representative assemblies, skepticism about village
elections is justified. Yet, the experiment of participatory
institutions within the Chinese authoritarian state tests cynics who
insist that the two cannot coexist.
Using extensive data gathered in 12 years of field research, political
scientist Baogang He argues in a new book that progress has been made
in China's grassroots governance and power structures. In the same
breath, he cautions against exaltation of village democracy's
benefits, since it is "an instrumental mechanism for the continuation
of Chinese resilient authoritarianism". (p7)
The Chinese government's theory of village democracy combines
authoritarian ideas of self-government under tight party control with
liberal ideas of free and fair elections by secret ballot. He reminds
readers of an alternative "Chinese folk theory" that expects tempering
of the rich and caring for the disadvantaged groups in the village.
This is the normative ideal against which he juxtaposes the actual
practice of grassroots democratic experiments.
The 1987 Organic Law took three years and over 30 revisions of drafts
before being passed. After several rounds of contested debates over
whether rural China needs elections, it was converted from
"provisional" into final law only in 1998. Attempts to legislate an
independent electoral commission have so far run into determined
obstruction from various layers of the government. The state "ensures
its significant presence in the whole process of elections" through
its point persons on the ground, the village party secretaries.
While these structural roadblocks remain, they are being resisted by
villagers who often do not vote for candidates handpicked by the
party. Beginning in Jilin province in 1993, villagers invented and
practiced haixuan, or direct nomination of candidates, a move that
proved to be highly successful in solving administrative problems such
as the common rural refusal to pay taxes and fees. Since 1999, the
dismissal by recall of corrupt village heads and committee members by
majority vote before completion of their terms has risen in frequency.
The question of who is a "villager" and an eligible voter has become
increasingly problematic in the context of China's rapid economic
growth. Fighting for villager status implies staking claim for a share
of the collective wealth and welfare provisions. Large-scale migration
in and out of villages has generated a floating population that is not
recognized as part of the electorate. If decisions of voter
eligibility are left to village assemblies, it can lead to
discrimination against minority groups. This type of iniquity has
increased the need for local courts to "intervene and counterbalance
the majoritarian tendencies of democratic institutions". (p51) The
author sees in these developments the emergence of a "rights-based
political morality".
Progressively, the competition of village elections has shifted from
single to multiple candidates. In some cases, the competition is so
stiff that no candidate is able to win an absolute majority. The rate
of re-election of incumbents is declining and the names of winners are
no longer foregone conclusions before voting takes place. Although
Chinese officials denounce election campaigning as "bourgeois",
villagers express a desire for it in order to make better choices.
Political marketplace
Generally, He finds greater electoral competition in richer villages
because they allocate handsome salaries and allowances for holders of
posts. In these villages, "different groups with their interests are
able to compete for power, thereby forming a political market". (p64)
However, wherever the communist party branch has the keys to economic
resources, competition is low. Wealthier villagers also score better
in degree of political participation since the economic prize of
obtaining power is bigger. Village committees also function more
efficiently in prosperous villages because of their healthier budgets.
The main policy inference from He in this context is that "for village
democracy to work, the rural economy needs to be improved". (p174)
Although voter turnout in village elections has been high, it could be
the result of rewards between 5 to 60 yuan (US$0.70 $8.30) as
compensation for lost labor or of inducements of government officials
anxious to achieve quotas. A 2005 survey found 25% of the respondents
to be apathetic to the electoral process. This is in sync with the
government's predisposition for "orderly participation" so that
discipline and obedience are not upturned.
A majority of villagers cast votes for candidates who can develop the
local economy. Rural entrepreneurs and directors of private
enterprises frequently get elected as village heads. Quite a high
percentage of voters also choose candidates considered to have high
moral standard and character. The author notes a movement away from
kinship ties as a basis of vote choice, heralding "modern village
citizenship". (p79) This is occurring despite the post-Mao
resurrection of lineage identities in a milieu of looser ideological
supervision.
Local officials and party secretaries looked at villager
representative meetings as threats to their own power, but these have
grown more active since 2000. In parts of Guangdong province,
representative assemblies are the highest village power institutions
that are impervious to manipulation by party cadres. Fears held by
critics that representative assemblies were undermining the ideal of
direct democracy are being answered with innovative solutions like
"village opinion cards" and weekly dialogues.
Private capitalists and the new rich invariably run representative
assemblies like exclusive elite clubs. Township authorities "take
pains to train the rich man into a politician, name him as candidate,
and help him get elected". (p106) The nouveau riche who get elected
have to balance pressures from above (party officials) and below
(voters). Some village heads even put the villagers' interests before
those of the township authorities. However, He's survey reveals that
only 15% of village heads think they have more power than the party
secretary. The party maintains its hegemony through its legally
defined "leading role" and by its grip on the economic resources of
the village.
Thanks to China's patriarchal family structure, women's participation
in village democracy is relatively low. Democratic methods are
regularly used to deny women who marry into other villages the rights
to vote and receive economic benefits. The number of female village
committee members has been decreasing since 1998. The few who do get
into office are allocated secondary roles that match alleged "female
qualities". In the face of societal prejudices against women in public
affairs, affirmative action policies of the Chinese legal system have
not gone far.
Township leaders play a complex role in China's rural democracy. By
law, they administer, arbitrate and oversee the conduct of village
elections. Yet, some of them oppose village elections as hindrances in
implementation of party policies in the countryside. The author found
township officials holding beliefs that "villagers have no interest in
elections because what they care most is to make more money". (p148) A
number of them are evolving sophisticated ways of manipulating village
elections from behind the scenes, prompting He to coin the label,
"democratic Machiavellianism".
The author concludes with the big question of whether village
elections could extend to townships through a "moving-up process". The
answer is relevant to the issue of democratization of the Chinese
state organization itself. Village elections raise doubts about the
legitimacy of appointed township leaders, reflecting "internal
tensions between the electoral logic and the authoritarian logic".
(p201)
Sporadic incidences of direct voting for the positions of township
heads and party secretaries have been occurring since 1998, but with
serious deficiencies. A small "leading group" of the party
organization usually manufactures the outcomes of these events. Among
the central leadership, former premier Zhu Rongji and Premier Wen
Jiabao have expressed support for township elections but the National
People's Congress and the Central Party Organization have shot down
the balloon owing to fear that they could "threaten a rapid unraveling
of CCP [Chinese Communist Party] authority". (p211)
In He's judgement, most Chinese villagers today enjoy formalistic
democracy but are a long way from substantive democracy. Village
democracy is distant from "state democracy" and has had little impact
on the Chinese state's governance at the macro-level. Using the
comparisons of the Philippines, Indonesia and Taiwan, which also
introduced local elections within authoritarian states, He predicts
that it will take several more years before a national election can
happen in China.
The author characterizes Chinese authoritarianism with limited
democratic elements as a "mixed regime" that, despite contradictions,
fortifies the CCP's supremacy. "One Country, Two Systems" has been
applied in Chinese legend to offshore territories Hong Kong and Macau.
He's study does not use this particular formulation but allows it to
be employed to describe the mainland's political system as well. His
book offers a salutary check on tendencies to assess China solely on
the basis of national level trends.
Rural Democracy in China. The Role of Village Elections by Baogang He,
Palgrave Macmillan, New York, 2007. ISBN: 978-0-230-60016-4. Price:
US$74.95, 277 pages.
baldeagle
>
xxx
> > That is the US democratic system !
>
The US system is NOT democracy, it is FLAWED democracy.
> In the PRC, there is only one real party, the CCP.
>
Who cares...the US may be obsessed with democracy, but
the Chinese don't bother.
China is NO LONGER interested democracy, communism,
and other political ideologies of the West.
China has a better system now,... more progressive
and has out-performed the USA. It beat the shit
out of the USA in trade balance.
Democracy has failed in Iraq, and in other states that
have adopted democracy. Arab countries are doing
much better than Iraq.
Jim Walsh
(in article <iikr24dd0i67hav2r...@4ax.com>):
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 20:46:53 +0800, Jim Walsh
> <jimNOwa...@gmNOail.com> wrote:
>
>> False. Except for positions like village chief (which unfortunately have no
>> power) there are no elections at all in China.
>
> Rural Democracy in China. The Role of Village Elections by Baogang He,
> Palgrave Macmillan, New York, 2007. ISBN: 978-0-230-60016-4. Price:
> US$74.95, 277 pages.
>
A superb book. I urge all interested in governance issues in China to read
it.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<9f2a2f8a-d7f7-4d85...@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>):
>
> Who cares...the US may be obsessed with democracy, but
> the Chinese don't bother.
When did the Chinese select you to be their representative?
baldeagle
> On Sat, 17 May 2008 06:39:39 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
>
>
>
> > Who cares...the US may be obsessed with democracy, but
> > the Chinese don't bother.
>
> When did the Chinese select you to be their representative?
>
>
of any government or people...yet their observations
are valid.
The US has been peddling democracy to the Chinese for
years. If the Chinese were interested, they would have
taken action to get rid of communism and embrace
democracy.
The fact is, only idiots like Falungun were fooled by
the USA. Other Chinese are simply NOT interested
in the flawed democracy in the USA.
Instead, the Chinese shop around...saw the effective
system being evolved in Singapore....quickly adopted it ...
to replace communism in China.
The adopted system, "rule by leaders with proven ability"
has serve China well... Since TengXiaoPing, China is
blessed with a succession of able leaderes... Jiang Zemin,
Zhu Rongji, Hu Jintao, Wen Jiabao...
This new system created jobs and wealth for China and the
Chinese....faster than any system... China has ever seen
or experienced before.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<8478c886-836f-4499...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>):
> If the Chinese were interested, they would have taken action to get rid of
> communism and embrace democracy.
Chinese have made many such efforts, only to be shot, imprisoned, tortured
and so on. Give them time, they will achieve freedom.
baldeagle
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 06:27:00 +0800, baldeagle wrote
> (in article
>
> > If the Chinese were interested, they would have taken action to get rid of
> > communism and embrace democracy.
>
> Chinese have made many such efforts, only to be shot, imprisoned, tortured
> and so on. Give them time, they will achieve freedom.
Have the Chinese embrace democracy ...after decades of US covert
efforts ?
No.
Yes. They have got rid of communism, and adopted their own
political system, ..one that is far superior than the flawed US
democracy.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<689b5aa7-d787-447a...@z16g2000prn.googlegroups.com>):
laughing out loud.
What shall we call the Chinese Communist Party? I recall an elder statesman
of scc who proposed the name be changed to the Chinese Garden Party.