China Freedom of Press
RussellT
or intimidation from the state, and is free from dictates and pressures of
the state? We already have seen proof that internet information access is
not so free and open in China.
Raymond
Why do you want to suggest that Chinese media must become
anti-government in order to be called independent free media? Has
there been any American media that dares to launch anti-government
campaign against the US government? American media is privately owned,
does that keep American media from lying? does that keep American
media from towing the line of the US government every step of the way?
From the view here, western media is always worse because western
media never cares about journalist integrity in reporting the facts.
Because western media is privately own, it's all for profit and
nothing else. Western journalists are always ready to sell their own
souls as well as the souls of their family just to make a buck. They
are nothing but human trash and shameless liars.
RussellT
news:kab124l17vk6pqae8...@4ax.com...
I am not an american, but I do know that NY Times, CNN, CBS Rather, and many
more, were all openly opposing the Bush government and making trouble for
his government.
But, I see: You are a government worker, and you talk from self-interest.
You should hear what some non-government workers had to say about you SOB's
when I was there.
The multitude of media sources allows the truth to come through. Fabricators
face public scorn and future distrust.
Your dislike for the free world's media is because you cannot control them
and cannot stop them from reporting. Governments in free societies pay a big
price if they interfere with freedom of the press. You make some things
quiet in China and then the free world tells everyone, and you hate that.
Notice also that I say free world, not Western world, as you would like it.
That is because our sources also include great countries such as India,
Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, South Africa, Brazil, and many more.
From diversity of sources, the truth comes.
So, for the record, Raymond won't answer the question. Which ones in China
are free?
CharlesLiu
What kind of price did Bush pay for the pre-invasion Iraq reporting?
If our media was state-sponsored, it would not have reported the pre-
invasion any differently. The pro/con was 400/3.
As to China's press freedom, here's a study from a Stanford professor:
http://fsi.stanford.edu/publications/when_will_the_chinese_people_be_free/
It also talks about growth of press freedom in China, and percentage
of state-owned media.
> You make some things
> quiet in China and then the free world tells everyone, and you hate that.
> Notice also that I say free world, not Western world, as you would like it.
> That is because our sources also include great countries such as India,
> Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, South Africa, Brazil, and many more.
> From diversity of sources, the truth comes.
>
> So, for the record, Raymond won't answer the question. Which ones in China
> are free?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Raymond
Now you too prove yourself a lying sack of shit by that stupid
statement. Everybody in the entire world knows there was no one in the
United States even complaining about the war not to mention opposing
it until the war itself screwed up in the face of the US government
and its lying media. Why do you find it's necessary to lie, you stupid
mother fucker.
>
>But, I see: You are a government worker, and you talk from self-interest.
>You should hear what some non-government workers had to say about you SOB's
>when I was there.
Fuck you, you stupid western liar. I'm a Canadian Citizen who has seen
enough of your sick western media lies and you stupid western
hypocritical assholes. You stupid liars can't fool me with your
deteriorating and dying western democracy anymore.
>
>The multitude of media sources allows the truth to come through. Fabricators
>face public scorn and future distrust.
If that were true, why there was this fictitious WMD in Iraq that
"misled" the America to attack and occupy the sovereign nation called
Iraq? Why there was no media outcry for the US launching an illegal
war? Why there is no media campaign to punish the US government for
war crimes? Do you think your western media would allow the Chinese
government to do the exact same thing as the US did to the Iraqi
people?
>
>Your dislike for the free world's media is because you cannot control them
>and cannot stop them from reporting.
Fuck you. It's because your "free world's media" is a lying sack of
shit just like you yourself.
Governments in free societies pay a big
>price if they interfere with freedom of the press.
I don't see the US government paying anything, and your western liar's
media always voluntarily help the US government out whenever possible.
Why is that? Is it because both of them are completely controlled by
the same owner or owners? Obviously, both your western governments and
your western media are owned by a handful filthy rich people in your
secret western society. They are never people's governments or
people's media. They belong to the rich and they work for the rich.
You, however, are merely one of their running dogs living off your
sorry life only to lick their shit whenever you can find any.
You make some things
>quiet in China and then the free world tells everyone, and you hate that.
>Notice also that I say free world, not Western world, as you would like it.
>That is because our sources also include great countries such as India,
>Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, South Africa, Brazil, and many more.
>From diversity of sources, the truth comes.
I know western imperialists have raised quite a few running dogs from
all over the world. India and Japan are the typical dogs. Both of them
are spineless servants of their western masters.
>
>So, for the record, Raymond won't answer the question. Which ones in China
>are free?
Fuck off, you stupid liar. Show me one mainstream western media that
is honest enough to speak the truth in confronting their own
government's policy. I have never seen any. All of them serve their
government like dogs serving their master. They only bark when their
master told them to. They will instantly change their story if their
government decides to change their government policy.
Again, western journalists are nothing but human trash and shameless
fucking liars, and you are just like them.
>
>
>
RussellT
news:291ed461-3d9e-4f82...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>What kind of price did Bush pay for the pre-invasion Iraq reporting?
>If our media was state-sponsored, it would not have reported the pre-
>invasion any differently. The pro/con was 400/3.
Many were truly in favour of the Iraq invasion beforehand. Remember, that
was after 9/11 and Iraq was viewed by many as a strategy to effect
fundamental changes in those regions, in order to eliminate the causes of
future 9/11's. After, the majority of the media turned against it, but the
people decide also, and they did re-elect Bush. But recently, Bush's party
lost both the Congress and the Senate, so a big price was paid. The jury is
still out on whether a democratic and prosperous society will result in
Iraq. Your referenced article about China's situation, tells me that it is
not reasonable for Iraq to make such a drastic and complete leap forward.
Too far in to go back now.
>As to China's press freedom, here's a study from a Stanford professor:
>http://fsi.stanford.edu/publications/when_will_the_chinese_people_be_free/
>It also talks about growth of press freedom in China, and percentage
>of state-owned media.
I found the article in the Journal of Democracy, very informative. A soft
landing may indeed come for China and the world. Certain freedoms can't come
before other items, and these freedoms are a natural consequence of
increased prosperity and education.
ltl...@hotmail.com
> "Raymond" <ni...@nizuy.com> wrote in message
>
> news:kab124l17vk6pqae8...@4ax.com...
>
> > On Tue, 06 May 2008 17:27:04 GMT, "RussellT"
> > <RussellDTur...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> >>What media in China is not owned by the state, and does not fear reprisals
> >>or intimidation from the state, and is free from dictates and pressures of
> >>the state? We already have seen proof that internet information access is
> >>not so free and open in China.
The question one should ask is whether the press is making the
citizens better. In America, the free press does not work. It prompted
a certain professor Robert Entman to wrote a book with the title of
"Democracy without citizens." Theoretically, the free press is
supposed to improve the quality of the readers/citizens through
competition. Reality, however, is far from it.
> > Why do you want to suggest that Chinese media must become
> > anti-government in order to be called independent free media? Has
> > there been any American media that dares to launch anti-government
> > campaign against the US government? American media is privately owned,
> > does that keep American media from lying? does that keep American
> > media from towing the line of the US government every step of the way?
> > From the view here, western media is always worse because western
> > media never cares about journalist integrity in reporting the facts.
> > Because western media is privately own, it's all for profit and
> > nothing else. Western journalists are always ready to sell their own
> > souls as well as the souls of their family just to make a buck. They
> > are nothing but human trash and shameless liars.
>
> I am not an american, but I do know that NY Times, CNN, CBS Rather, and many
> more, were all openly opposing the Bush government and making trouble for
> his government.
Yes. But the press also make Americans dumb. American press is
American dumb press. Issues on the free press had been discussed. If
you are the interested, the following is one such discussion.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.china/msg/0ede020b35189bc5
>
> But, I see: You are a government worker, and you talk from self-interest.
> You should hear what some non-government workers had to say about you SOB's
> when I was there.
>
> The multitude of media sources allows the truth to come through. Fabricators
> face public scorn and future distrust.
You are dreaming. It is well known that American citiznes are misled
by their free press. For instance, 2 out 3 Americans were led to
believed that Iraq and Saddam Hussien were involved in the 9/11
attack.
>
> Your dislike for the free world's media is because you cannot control them
> and cannot stop them from reporting. Governments in free societies pay a big
> price if they interfere with freedom of the press. You make some things
> quiet in China and then the free world tells everyone, and you hate that.
> Notice also that I say free world, not Western world, as you would like it.
> That is because our sources also include great countries such as India,
> Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, South Africa, Brazil, and many more.
> From diversity of sources, the truth comes.
>
> So, for the record, Raymond won't answer the question. Which ones in China
RussellT
Well, it looks like I struck a raw nerve with you, Raymond. What's the
problem? The truth hurts?
RussellT
news:feefb4ad-05d5-45d0...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>The question one should ask is whether the press is making the
>citizens better. In America, the free press does not work. It prompted
>a certain professor Robert Entman to wrote a book with the title of
>"Democracy without citizens." Theoretically, the free press is
>supposed to improve the quality of the readers/citizens through
>competition. Reality, however, is far from it.
>Yes. But the press also make Americans dumb. American press is
>American dumb press. Issues on the free press had been discussed. If
>you are the interested, the following is one such discussion.
>http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.china/msg/0ede020b35189bc5
>You are dreaming. It is well known that American citiznes are misled
>by their free press. For instance, 2 out 3 Americans were led to
>believed that Iraq and Saddam Hussien were involved in the 9/11
>attack.
No, that is not true. In a democracy, a free press is essential.
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the
average voter." Churchill
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all
the others that have been tried". Churchill's daughter
Many still believe that it has not been disproved about WMD. They moved them
to Syria. Who can disprove that. The terrorist network was recently shown to
have included Saddam. The real story is what I replied to Charles Liu. You
should read his reference also.
Jim Walsh
(in article <Ix0Uj.921$KB3.667@edtnps91>):
Actually, to use words correctly, it is the CCP which controls media thru the
mechanisms of the state.
--
Love, Jim
(I often delete parts of the previous post and I often remove excessive
crossposts.)
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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Jim Walsh
(in article <kab124l17vk6pqae8...@4ax.com>):
>
> Why do you want to suggest that Chinese media must become anti-government in
> order to be called independent free media?
A false premise (he makes NO such suggestion) creates a question with no
valid answer. An independent media speaks with many voices, some critical,
some praising, some ignoring the same event, action, policy.
Jim Walsh
(in article <kab124l17vk6pqae8...@4ax.com>):
> Has there been any American media that dares to launch anti-government
> campaign against the US government?
Sure. The Western media (to use your term) consists of many voices, which
express many views, including anti-government campaigns.
Jim Walsh
(in article <kab124l17vk6pqae8...@4ax.com>):
> American media is privately owned, does that keep American media from lying?
No.
But because the media in free countries speak with many voices, the readers
can evaluate the different sources for themselves.
Jim Walsh
(in article <kab124l17vk6pqae8...@4ax.com>):
> Western journalists are always ready to sell their own souls as well as the
> souls of their family just to make a buck. They are nothing but human trash
> and shameless liars.
Childish.
Jim Walsh
(in article <olm124lduo3nmcid0...@4ax.com>):
> On Tue, 06 May 2008 20:06:19 GMT, "RussellT"
> <Russell...@telus.net> wrote:
>> The multitude of media sources allows the truth to come through. Fabricators
>> face public scorn and future distrust.
>
> If that were true, why there was this fictitious WMD in Iraq that
> "misled" the America to attack and occupy the sovereign nation called
> Iraq? Why there was no media outcry for the US launching an illegal
> war? Why there is no media campaign to punish the US government for
> war crimes? Do you think your western media would allow the Chinese
> government to do the exact same thing as the US did to the Iraqi
> people?
Were there no independent media the Bush Administration lies and misdeeds
would not have been revealed so quickly.
I think that the media speaks with many voices. Some might well hold China
(or America) to a higher standard, but most would not.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<feefb4ad-05d5-45d0...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>):
>
>
> Yes. But the press also make Americans dumb. American press is American dumb
> press. Issues on the free press had been discussed. If you are the
> interested, the following is one such discussion.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.china/msg/0ede020b35189bc5
It is wonderful to see an open discussion about the virtues and faults of the
media in free countries.
How long do you think it will be before there is a free media in China to
hold a similar discussion?
pg
> The question one should ask is whether the press is making the
> citizens better.
Press can only makes the citizens FLATTER.
Do I need to point that out to you, sir?
Lpro...@aol.com
>
Yeh, tell that to Wen Ho Lee. Detained for 11months in solitary
confinement, put through a kangaroo court with trumped up charged by
the western media which still go unpunished.
A press that pursue Princess Diana to death and even took a picture of
her as she lie dying.
Press that fooled an entire United States into a war with Iraq,
killing 4000 American lifes and up to an estimated 250,000 Iraqies and
displacing over 2million Iraqies. More then the entire population of
Tibet.
Compared that with a press from a poor 3rd world developing country in
China that promote development, harmony and national unity among 56
national miniority.
Which would you rather support ?
pg
> confinement, put through a kangaroo court with trumped up charged by
> the western media which still go unpunished.
That Wen Ho Lee is a running dog anyway. He doesn't deserve any
concern for any red-blooded Chinese anywhere.
One who helps uncle sam develop nuclear weapons that are to be used on
his own people deserve all the betrayals from the western world.
ltl...@hotmail.com
> <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:feefb4ad-05d5-45d0...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >The question one should ask is whether the press is making the
> >citizens better. In America, the free press does not work. It prompted
> >a certain professor Robert Entman to wrote a book with the title of
> >"Democracy without citizens." Theoretically, the free press is
> >supposed to improve the quality of the readers/citizens through
> >competition. Reality, however, is far from it.
> >Yes. But the press also make Americans dumb. American press is
> >American dumb press. Issues on the free press had been discussed. If
> >you are the interested, the following is one such discussion.
> >http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.china/msg/0ede020b35189bc5
> >You are dreaming. It is well known that American citiznes are misled
> >by their free press. For instance, 2 out 3 Americans were led to
> >believed that Iraq and Saddam Hussien were involved in the 9/11
> >attack.
>
> No, that is not true.
What is not true?
> In a democracy, a free press is essential.
You are expressing your faith and nothing else.
Raymond
What's the problem with you, you fucking coward? Can't really face
what I said, can you?
Jim Walsh
(in article
<b551c8f8-caef-4626...@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>):
>
> Yeh, tell that to Wen Ho Lee. Detained for 11months in solitary confinement,
> put through a kangaroo court with trumped up charged by the western media
> which still go unpunished.
Well, Mr. Ho will be the first to tell you that he owes his liberty to the
fact that the court was not a "kangaroo court".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Ho_Lee
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20001023/scheer
RussellT
"pg" <pen...@catholic.org> wrote in message
news:f72620df-f942-472c...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Yes, please try, because no one understands what you are trying to say. We
would like to know your true opinion.
rst0wxyz
We are all citizens of the United States, and what we do is part of
making a living, whether it's making food, or making nuclear weapons.
If it is war with China become a reality, then we would put all our
energy to defeat China as any other enemy of the United States. I and
my family certainly would do our part as citizens of the United States
to defeat China.
pg
There are many ways of making a living. If Wen Ho Lee is a white, I
wouldn't have problem with his profession. However, being a chink
himself, he ought to understand that the purpose of the nukes he helps
made are for killing millions of other chinks.
This is akin to accepting money to kill one's own relatives, or in the
Bible term, the role of Judah.
Running dog is running dog, there's no two ways about it.
RussellT
>
> There are many ways of making a living. If Wen Ho Lee is a white, I
> wouldn't have problem with his profession. However, being a chink
> himself, he ought to understand that the purpose of the nukes he helps
> made are for killing millions of other chinks.
>
> This is akin to accepting money to kill one's own relatives, or in the
> Bible term, the role of Judah.
>
> Running dog is running dog, there's no two ways about it.
>
You mean it's ok to kill the others? Don't you know that the US is not
inherently defined by a race or the old concept of race-state. The way it
evolves, it becomes more of a mixture of all the world's people. With that
true concept, we must consider that Americans are not defined as a race,
and that all are equally a new people being formed on this planet.
Black-American, Asian-American, euro-American, etc. All irrelevant, except
to people stuck in the 1700's, and unable to comprehend the present, such as
you.
bmo...@nyx.net
> On May 6, 9:53 pm, "RussellT" <RussellDTur...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:feefb4ad-05d5-45d0...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >The question one should ask is whether the press is making the
> > >citizens better. In America, the free press does not work. It prompted
> > >a certain professor Robert Entman to wrote a book with the title of
> > >"Democracy without citizens." Theoretically, the free press is
> > >supposed to improve the quality of the readers/citizens through
> > >competition. Reality, however, is far from it.
> > >Yes. But the press also make Americans dumb. American press is
> > >American dumb press. Issues on the free press had been discussed. If
> > >you are the interested, the following is one such discussion.
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.china/msg/0ede020b35189bc5
> > >You are dreaming. It is well known that American citiznes are misled
> > >by their free press. For instance, 2 out 3 Americans were led to
> > >believed that Iraq and Saddam Hussien were involved in the 9/11
> > >attack.
>
> > No, that is not true.
>
> What is not true?
The vast majority of your political commentary.
> > In a democracy, a free press is essential.
>
> You are expressing your faith and nothing else.
You are expressing your bias and nothing else.
bmo...@nyx.net
It's a bit silly IMO to point to one case of injustice in the US and
ignore the many cases of people being imprisoned with *no* concrete
charges that take place in places like China.
> A press that pursue Princess Diana to death and even took a picture of
> her as she lie dying.
>
> Press that fooled an entire United States into a war with Iraq,
> killing 4000 American lifes and up to an estimated 250,000 Iraqies and
> displacing over 2million Iraqies. More then the entire population of
> Tibet.
>
> Compared that with a press from a poor 3rd world developing country in
> China that promote development, harmony and national unity among 56
> national miniority.
>
> Which would you rather support ?
Your analysis is too one-sided. You point out all of the bad but none
of the good, of which there is much.
pg
Are you trying to put words into my mouth, sir?
All I said is if that motherfucker is a white, and he makes nukes for
uncle sam, the same nuke, if used, would be used to kill chinks, then
it would be okay.
Why? Because in this world we live in, the word "Defense" actually
means "KILLING". What's the use of "Department of Defense" if they are
not allowed to kill anyone?
That's why I said that if that motherfucker is a white, I understand
why he did that --- producing nukes for uncle sam ---- to protect his
white kinfolks from chinks.
But Wen Ho Lee is a chink himself !!! His "accomplishment" in making
nukes for uncle sam (who's uncle sam but a white guy?) which would be
used for killing chinks like himself ... hey, what else to call that
motherfucker but a running dog?
Wen Ho Lee is the present day "Judah". As no one cries for Judah, no
chink ought to care about what the fuck happened to the motherfucker
Wen Ho Lee, the Judah of the chink.
RussellT
>
> Are you trying to put words into my mouth, sir?
>
> All I said is if that motherfucker is a white, and he makes nukes for
> uncle sam, the same nuke, if used, would be used to kill chinks, then
> it would be okay.
>
> Why? Because in this world we live in, the word "Defense" actually
> means "KILLING". What's the use of "Department of Defense" if they are
> not allowed to kill anyone?
>
> That's why I said that if that motherfucker is a white, I understand
> why he did that --- producing nukes for uncle sam ---- to protect his
> white kinfolks from chinks.
>
> But Wen Ho Lee is a chink himself !!! His "accomplishment" in making
> nukes for uncle sam (who's uncle sam but a white guy?) which would be
> used for killing chinks like himself ... hey, what else to call that
> motherfucker but a running dog?
>
> Wen Ho Lee is the present day "Judah". As no one cries for Judah, no
> chink ought to care about what the fuck happened to the motherfucker
> Wen Ho Lee, the Judah of the chink.
Where do people like you get this from? No need to put words in your mouth.
Wind you up and away you go. And I think everyone understands you clearly.
The US is defining itself as not being defined by a race or a religion or
origin. Making one people, from many. The whites were the first major group,
but that is historic. So, it is not a white country.
Wen Ho Lee is an American, and it looks like he was mistreated. But before
we start the racial rantings, many are mistreated. I give him my moral
support.
pg
If the US is defining itself as not being defined by a race or a
religion or origin, then it is definitely NOT the United States of
America.
Please stop your fucking dream !!!!
RussellT
>
> If the US is defining itself as not being defined by a race or a
> religion or origin, then it is definitely NOT the United States of
> America.
>
> Please stop your fucking dream !!!!
It's already defined itself that way in it's constitution, Civil Rights
Laws, immigration policies, etc. If it wanted to be otherwise, then why have
massive immigration from all over the world. It's because the vision is to
create a nation, not defined by race, religion, origin. I think I have
proven the point.
Jim Walsh
(in article
<bfd10c47-8763-4c2b...@v26g2000prm.googlegroups.com>):
> chink
Ignore file for racist slurs.
Peter Terpstra
> Why do you want to suggest that Chinese media must become
> anti-government in order to be called independent free media?
"Free" is really different than anti-(this or that).
Kind regards,
Peter
--
mailto:pe...@dharma.dyndns.biz