Tib Lub Siab Qub li 300 BC
tzex...@msn.com
tebchaws Nruabnrab ntawv muaj ntau ntau lub xeev thiab muaj ib cov
me nyuam tebchaws puag ncig. Lub sijhawm ntawv cov ntawv mas muab piv
tau tsis txawv li cov ntawv Latin Hmoob siv niaj hnub no. Ntawv Latin
Hmoobdawb (Hmong), Latin Hmoobntsuab (Mong), Latin Hmoobnyablaj, Latin
Hmoobnraug A Hmao), Latin Hmoobdub (Hmu), thiab Latin Hmoobliab
(Xiong) puav leej yog ntawv Hmoob, tabsis nyias sau nyias raws nyias
lus. Txawv tsis ntau li ntawv Hmoobdawb thiab ntawv Hmoobntsuab los
yeej tsis kam hloov li. Cov ntawv uas Hmoob thiab Suav siv lub
sijhawm 300 xyoo uantej Yesus ntawv ces zoo li no.
Qin txoj kev cai ua tus huabtais (emperor) yog tus tub hlob thiaj tau
ua huabtais thaum leej txiv tuag lawm. Huabtais Qin Shi Huang leej
txiv muaj 6 tus poj niam. Niam loj tsis muaj tub. Niam 6 yog lwm
haiv neeg. Niam loj yuav niam 6 tus tub los ua tub ces niam 6 tus tub
thiaj li tau los ua tus Huabtais. Qin Shi Huang tau ua huabtais
lawm. Nws thiaj li kho cov ntawv lub sijhawm ntawv. Thaum nws kho
tau tas. Nws hais kom tasnrho sawvdaws nyias tso nyias tej ntawv tseg
es los koom siv tib tug ntawv. Muaj ib cov tsis kam siv. Huabtais
Qin lawv thiaj li uarog niav kiag. Muab tus thawj coj tsev neeg tua
tunoob nrho. Muab cov kws txuj thiab cov txawj ntawv tua tunoob
nrho. Tsis tas li muab tej ntaub tej ntawv muaj npe ntawv thiab tej
tsev qhia ntawv tum ntawv hlawv povtseg tas hu tib si.
Niaj no, peb rov qab muaj ntawv ntau ntau yam tuaj thiab peb los yeej
coj tib lub siab qub li xyoo 300 ntawv. Yog peb tsis hloov, peb yeej
yuav tsum raug poob rov qab mus taug tus qub roj qub neev dua. Peb
cov Hmoob mas peb yuav tua tsis tau peb cov Hmoob. Tab sis cov tsis
yog ntshav Hmoob 100% tua tau nawv.
Txawjxab
zhen
> cov Hmoob mas peb yuav tua tsis tau peb cov Hmoob. Tab sis cov tsis
> yog ntshav Hmoob 100% tua tau nawv.
koj tsis tau hnov dua zaj nkauj xov tooj cua moj them niaj hnub tso
lov? nws hu, "peb yog hmoob ntshav los ntshav hmoob?" qhov no nej ho
txhais li cas?
qhov kuv xav xwb, yog ntshav hmoob 100% tua tau kawg, tiam si yog
hmoob ntshav 100% no mas ib lub siab ua los yeej muaj ib lub siab
cheem thiab.
more later...
Tzianeng Vang
Kuv paub tias tus ntawv Las Tees tsim rau cov A-Hmao ces yog Samuel
Pollard (Pollard Script), Savina tsim rau cov Hmoob Nyab Laj tiam sis
cov Hmu thiab Hmoob Liab nej lawv cov ho yog leej twg tsim? Koj yog
tus mus pom lawm koj ho pab qhia thiab seb.
Tsis tag li xwb tus ntawv Hmoob tshiab nyuam qhuav tshwm sim tam sis
no ua ib tug kwv tij Hmoob Hawj nthuav cia muaj lub npe hu tias, "Puaj
Txwm" no nes puas yog txhim kho tus Pollard Script los li ib co kws
ntaub kws ntawv hais, hais los lawm thiab?
Thiab yog tias kuv cov lus cev ho tsis meej los thov zam txim...
Ua tsaug!
-Txiabneeb
tzex...@msn.com
Txiabneeb,
Pollard script yog cov ntawv uas Pastor Samuel Pollard tsim. Pastor
Pollard vam tias tas nrho cov Hmoob yuav siv. Tabsis thaum kawg yog
cov Hmoobnraug siv xwb. Tsis tas li ib cov Hmoobnraug tseem hais
tias tus ntawv Hmoob laus no (pollard script) noj suab tsis tas. Lawv
tseem kho dua ib cov tshiab lawm thiab. Cov ntawv latin Hmoob nyob
Tsoobkuj txhua yam yog tseemfwv Suav tsim.
Cov ntawv Puajtxwm yog Nkajvag Hawj ua nyob Thaiteb. Kuv kuj tsis
paub Nkajvag zoo. Zoo li yog nws sawv saub thiab no. Cov ntawv
puajtxwm no yeej tsis pom muaj ib yam puavpheej cuam tshuam li.
Ntawv qauvntawv mas yog lawv tsim nyob tim Vinai. Kuv ntseeg hais
tias tus ntawv no yog tsim los txhaws lub qhov yuamkev uas tej tus
neeg tau ua lawm.
Ntawv Pajntaub los yog ntawv Txawjvag mas kuv xav hais tias yog txia
ntawm ntawv Phajhauj los thiab muab lub tswv yim ntawv Latin thiab
ntawv Nplog los sib tov.
Txawjxab
Hmong-Lao
Neb lub tswv yim uas yuav muab tsim ib tug ntawv uas txhua tsav Hmoob
to taub, ib tug sau ib tug nyeem tawm thiab to taub no yeej yog ib qho
zoo lawm thiab. Tabsis yog ua li neb hais no ces twb tsis txawv qhov
Qin Shi Huang ua ne. Yog yuav ua li neb hais mas yuav tsum yog siv
power li Qin Shi Huag mas thiaj tau, tabsis peb tsis xav kom history
rov qab reqpeat lawm. Yog li ntawd, lub tswv yim no muab tso tseg.
Tam li kuv xav mas, yog nej leej twg muaj pluaj siab xav kom txhua
tsav Hmoob siv tib tug ntawd, ces yuav tsum propose thiab nthua tus
ntawd RPA no rau cov kwv tij Hmoob txua txhia lub teb chaws xwb. Yog
tus ntawd no tsis muaj suab txhua rau tsav Hmoob twg ces peb kho thiab
ntxiv rau xwb ces yeej siv tau lawm. Yog siv cov ntawd RPA no mas
tsoomfwv lub teb chaws twg los tsis txwv. Tabsis yog siv cov quav
ntawd txawv dua RPA lawm mas tej zaum yuav muaj teebmeem li qhov uas
peb twb tau hnov txog keeb kwm tsim ntawv Hmoob nyob rau Suavteb,
Lostsuasteb, Thaibteb, & Cobtsibteb. Dhau li ntawd, RPA yog ib hom
ntawv uas yooj yim kawm, yooj yim siv, siv thoob ntuj, siv tau yam
tsis thas yuav create ib qhov separate software rau ntawv Hmoob.
Kuv tsis to taub hais tias ua li cas cov Hmoob no xa nrov npe ua luaj.
Koj los yuav tsim koj tus ntawv; kuv los yuav tsim kuv tus ntawv. Tsam
no twb lig dhau heev lawm na, luag twb xub tsim tau rau peb siv ces
kuj cia li khaws siv xwb los pob. Leej twg tseem rhawv tau ib tug
ntawv tshiab npaum li cas los yeej tseem yog qog lwm tus lub tswv yim
los thiab xwb. Tab txawm SoobLwj Yaj cov (PhajHauj) kiag los ntshe
tseem yog qiv RPA lub tswv yim thiaj tsim tau thiab xwb. Vim nws cov
ntawv tsim tawm 6 xyoo tom qab cov ntawv Hmoob RPA lawm. Niaj Hnub no
peb cov uas txawj ntawv Hmoob no leej twg xav tsim ib cov ntawv Hmoob
tshiab los yeej tau na! Tabsis what is the point, what makes it better
than the current RPA? Kuv yeej tsis xam pom ib qhov txiaj ntsim uas
yuav los tsim ib tug ntawv tshiab rau Hmoob li, tsuas xam pov qhov
yuav rhuav thiab muab Hmoob faib thiab cais kom tawg ua pab ua pawg
ntxiv xwb.
Vvis suvd ntsuaisn hesn rhus ismplhujf ntawm Khawsrremn Hmoob RPA
livdawsrrevxim.
(qog lus Askiv tau ces lwm yam lus Hmoob yeej tsis muaj teebmeem)
HL
Tzianeng Vang
Tus ntawv Las Tees, Romanized Popular Alhpabets (RPA) los yog Ntawv
Hmoob Thoob Ntuj (Teb) no yuav siv tau mus yooj yim (in term of
accessibility). Tiam sis nco tias twb muaj kev siv li teb chaw no. Lus
Askiv yog cov lus siv rau txhua txhia qho (general usage) tiam sis twb
ho muaj cov lus tob muaj ntsiab lus zoo xwb li Greek/Latin siv luam
rau teb ntaub ntawv kev cai lij choj, tej nyiaj tej txiaj (currency
prints) thiab tej kev suav zauv (number/math) xws li Roman numeral.
Yog li cia peb txhim kho tus RPA los siv hos cia cov ntaub ntawv li
ntawv Paj Ntaub los yog Phaj Hauj los siv rau tej kev siv me tiam sis
tseem ceeb...symbolic usage such as currency and others...
zhen
> Neb lub tswv yim uas yuav muab tsim ib tug ntawv uas txhua tsav Hmoob
> to taub, ib tug sau ib tug nyeem tawm thiab to taub no yeej yog ib qho
> zoo lawm thiab. Tabsis yog ua li neb hais no ces twb tsis txawv qhov
> Qin Shi Huang ua ne. Yog yuav ua li neb hais mas yuav tsum yog siv
> power li Qin Shi Huag mas thiaj tau, tabsis peb tsis xav kom history
> rov qab reqpeat lawm. Yog li ntawd, lub tswv yim no muab tso tseg.
koj to taub yuam kev loj kawg li lawm. i am speaking for myself, txawj
xab mam li hais nws tus kheej. raws li kuv xav mas kuv hais kom peb
nyias txaus nyias siab los pab kho. tsis yog li koj xav es kom quab
yuam leej twg qhov twg. s/d yuav tsum pom tias ntawv las tees no rhuav
hmoob lub neej lub npe loj npuam li cas thiab coj peb tawg zuj zus mus
lawm.
kuv thiaj li xav, yog peb txawj sib hlub tiag tiag, peb yeej yuav kho
+ tsim tau. peb yuav tau kho ntawm peb lub siab lub ntsws tag tso mam
li los kho + tsim tej ntaub ntawv. koj puas to taub?
qin shi huang.di xav yog, tiam si, nws ua tsis yog. thov kom peb xav
yog thiab ua kom yog yog raws li txoj kev xav. koj to taub lawm lov?
> Tam li kuv xav mas, yog nej leej twg muaj pluaj siab xav kom txhua
> tsav Hmoob siv tib tug ntawd, ces yuav tsum propose thiab nthua tus
> ntawd RPA no rau cov kwv tij Hmoob txua txhia lub teb chaws xwb. Yog
> tus ntawd no tsis muaj suab txhua rau tsav Hmoob twg ces peb kho thiab
> ntxiv rau xwb ces yeej siv tau lawm. Yog siv cov ntawd RPA no mas
> tsoomfwv lub teb chaws twg los tsis txwv. Tabsis yog siv cov quav
> ntawd txawv dua RPA lawm mas tej zaum yuav muaj teebmeem li qhov uas
> peb twb tau hnov txog keeb kwm tsim ntawv Hmoob nyob rau Suavteb,
> Lostsuasteb, Thaibteb, & Cobtsibteb. Dhau li ntawd, RPA yog ib hom
> ntawv uas yooj yim kawm, yooj yim siv, siv thoob ntuj, siv tau yam
> tsis thas yuav create ib qhov separate software rau ntawv Hmoob.
please, read my other post in response to your statement on RPA being
"easy".
> Kuv tsis to taub hais tias ua li cas cov Hmoob no xa nrov npe ua luaj.
koj hais koj cov lus no tub qaug tib neeg kawg li. tub qaug Niam Ntawv
SLY, tub qaug tej zoo li NDX, tub qaug NVH. kuv xav, yog tsis nyob
hauv internet, yog nyob saum neej tiag tiag no, koj yeej tsis muaj lub
ntsej muag yuav hais lus tub qaug tib neeg npaum li no. koj puas tau
nrog SLY los nws pab neeg tham? koj puas tau nrog NDX tham? koj puas
tau nrog NVH tham? kub pab koj txaj lub qhov muag kawg li nawb. vim
tias, kuv nrog lawv cov tib neeg no tham lawm. lawv tsim tej ntawv no
vim yog kev hlub hmoob tsis yog vim raws li koj iab liam tias lawv "xa
nrov npe ua luaj."
yog koj muaj rab peev xwm, koj kuj qhia kuv seb koj ho nrog tus twg
tham es nws hais tias, "peb tsim hom ntawv no vim peb xav kom peb nrov
nrov npe nawb." muab npe muab xov tooj rau kuv. sau email rau kuv. yog
muaj tseeb li koj hais, kuv tus zhen no mam li muab kuv daim nplooj
tshem kiag mus nawb.
> Koj los yuav tsim koj tus ntawv; kuv los yuav tsim kuv tus ntawv. Tsam
> no twb lig dhau heev lawm na, luag twb xub tsim tau rau peb siv ces
> kuj cia li khaws siv xwb los pob. Leej twg tseem rhawv tau ib tug
tsis lig nab. peb hmoob yog neeg qub neeg laus. peb nyob pes tsawg
xyoo los lawm? peb yuav ciaj haiv mus ntxiv pes tsawg xyoo yam tom
ntej? yog yuav muab hais tiag tiag, yog ua li koj xav es cia li muab
tso tseg thiaj li yog "lig" ov. yog pib tau hnub no mus lawm ces tsis
lig ib sim neej.
> ntawv tshiab npaum li cas los yeej tseem yog qog lwm tus lub tswv yim
> los thiab xwb. Tab txawm SoobLwj Yaj cov (PhajHauj) kiag los ntshe
> tseem yog qiv RPA lub tswv yim thiaj tsim tau thiab xwb. Vim nws cov
kev sib qiv tswv yim no txhaum dab tsi? koj yuav tau mus nyeem kuv
daim post tiag tiag li nawb, vim koj tseem xav nqaim nqaim thiab ua
siab me me heev li. kev sib qev no tsis yog hmoob txawj ua, mab sua
yeej ua, mekas yeej ua. kaus li thiab nyiaj pooj tseem qev ntawm suav,
suav tseem qev ntawm hmoob.
yog peb qev tswv yim los kho kom tau hmoob los ua ib haiv raws kev sib
hlub xwb, txhob lam yig nawb. tej hmoob tej zoo tswv yim, luag twb
tsis yig kawm thiab qev, es vim li cas peb thiaj ho txaj muag qev luag
tswv yim thiab maj?
> ntawv tsim tawm 6 xyoo tom qab cov ntawv Hmoob RPA lawm. Niaj Hnub no
> peb cov uas txawj ntawv Hmoob no leej twg xav tsim ib cov ntawv Hmoob
> tshiab los yeej tau na!
yog kawg li koj hais kov. tiam si, kuv muab ntsia ntsia lawm, nej tsim
los nej tsim kom hmoob tawg loj zuj zus thiab yuam kev lawm deb zuj
zus mus xwb. nej yeej yuav tsis muaj lub tswv yim revolutionary, nej
tsuas muaj qhov evolutionary xwb nab.
> Tabsis what is the point, what makes it better
> than the current RPA? Kuv yeej tsis xam pom ib qhov txiaj ntsim uas
> yuav los tsim ib tug ntawv tshiab rau Hmoob li, tsuas xam pov qhov
> yuav rhuav thiab muab Hmoob faib thiab cais kom tawg ua pab ua pawg
> ntxiv xwb.
awv, qhov ntawm koj ntag lauj. ntawv las tees ntxawm ua txoj hauj lwm
koj lawm ntag. again, please read my other post and comment there. the
goal is not better or worse, the goal is not simpler or more complex,
the goal is not easier or difficult as you have truly misunderstood,
the goal is kom kho peb haiv hmoob los txawj sib hlub zuj zus mus.
hmoobtau...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Kuv tug taug rig ntev nuav los yeej pum le Hmoob Lao has hab laiv.
Tug RPA nuav yeej zoo kawg nkaus rua peb hmoob le lawm. Yog suab tsi
txaus lossis caj ntawv ntau heev los muab hloov kuam zoo xwb, tsi taag
yuav tsim dlua ib cov nim txaij le ub le nua, ua kaab sab kaab nqeg
txhaj yog hmoob tug. Txawm yuav sawv saub ua Soob Lwj lug tsim los
peb yeej tseem yog hmoob hab tseem noj nyoog haus txag le hmoob xwb.
Tseem sib tshum le hmoob hab tseem ntshai ntshai lwm tug tau ua yug
tug thawj le qub.
Hmoob tsi tau muaj tebchaws sai nwg nuav os cov kwv luag. Sov yuav
yog tsawg tam lossis sov yeej yuav tsi muaj tebchaws hlo le. Thaum
twg muaj tebchaws maam tsim los yeej tsi lig kag le nawb. Thaum hmoob
muaj tebchaws lawm yog leej twg xaav nrov nto npe cais maam ua le mej
tug Qin Shi Huang ua, maam siv fwjchim yuam kuam txhua tug siv. Yog
leej twg tsi siv cais maam sib tua kuam poob fwjchim dlua los yeej tsi
tau lig.
Ca yawg taug rig ntev has le nuav xwb laub. Yawg taug rig ntev muaj
zoo kuab muaj tsua hab khu tau me nyuam hmoob zoo hab os. HTRN
tzex...@msn.com
HL,
Koj hais koj cov lus los kuj yog lawm. Peb yuav luag txhua tus Hmoob
yeej hais li koj hais. Tus neeg tsim dab tsi los yog ntshaw xav
nrhov. cov neeg hlub Hmoob es nrhiav tswv yim kho Hmoob es Hmoob xav
tias nws xav nrhov no ces Hmoob thiaj pheej muab tua pov tseg. Hmoob
thiaj ua ib haiv neeg poob qab.
Kuv pom li Zhen hais thiab. Peb xav yuav qhov yooj yim es peb thiaj
tsis muaj dab tsi khov. Yog yuav hais lus Akiv ces peb cov ntawv niaj
hnub no yog phonemic writing. Koj hais lus li cas koj sau li ntawv.
Kuv hais lus li cas kuv sau li ntawv. Yog li no cov ntawv no thiaj
tsis muaj ib yam twg uas yuav siv tau rau sawvdaws. Koj xav tias RPA
yuav noj tau tas nrho Hmoob cov lus, koj sim siab cov lus nram no
saib.
Hmoob: tus tub, ib lub, dub
Moob: tug tug, ib lub, dlub
Ad Hmaob: Dol (tum+g) dob (tub), ib (is) lob (lus), dlob (dlus)
Ad Hmiaom: (taab taam), (im laan), (glaam)
Hnub: dail (taim+g) daib (tai), ib (i) laib (lais), dlaib (dlais)
Thaum zoo li no, koj sim xav saib seb koj yuav kho RPA li cas thiaj
haum?
Kuv twb nrog cov Hmoob nyob Suav teb tham lawm. Lawv hais tias lawv
cov ntawv latin yeej zoo rau lawv siv kawg lawm. Yog peb cov nyob usa
yuav kom lawv siv peb tus ntawv RPA ces lawv yeem siv lawv cov xwb.
Koj los yeej pom tias Hmoobdawb thiab Hmooblees twb hais lus sibze tas
npaum no, twb kho tus RPA tsis sib haum. Koj puas xav hais tias
300,000 leej yuav hais kom lawv 6,000,000 leej yuav.
Hais txog ntawm txoj kev yuam kev nias li qin shi huang, kuv tsis tau
hais tias yuav tsum ua li. Koj xav yuam kev lawm. Rov nyeem dua kuv
cov lus los tau. Kuv tsuas hais tias yog peb tsis kho peb kom haum
ces muaj ib hnub yuav muaj tus nraud los yuam peb kho.
Qhov tas nrho peb cov Hmoob no lub siab xav rau txoj kev kho tus ntawv
Hmoob mas yog "KUV XAV..." Tsis yog kho raws ib tug txheej hais tias
vim cov lus yog li no mas thiaj kho li no. Yog vim qhov "KUV XAV"
ntag es peb thiaj li pheej hais tsis sib haum.
Tzianeng,
Txiabneeb thiab nws pawg ntseeg lub tswv yim los yeej poob rau kuv lo
lus nram qab kawg no.
Yeej tsis tau muaj ib tug neeg twg uas tsim ntawv Hmoob rau Hmoob es
yuav ua tib zoo tshuaj xyuas saib cov lus Hmoob seb zoo li cas es mam
tsim ntawv los kom haum. Tab tseemfwv Suav tau tshawbfawb xyoo
1956-7, tau ib xyoo, pawg neeg tshawbfawb txiav txim tsim 3 yam ntawv
rau Hmoob.
Lub sij hawm no, cov neeg ua paub zoo keebkwm suab lus Hmoob ces yeej
tsis muaj pestsawg leej. Wang Fushi yog ib tug. Kuv yog ib tug. Yeej
tsis muaj leej twg qhov twg lawm hos.
Txawjxab
Tzianeng Vang
Kuv zoo siab heev ua koj tau lees koj lub luag hauj lwm uas yog ib tus
Hmoob txawj thiab tshawb txog peb Hmoob li haiv tej lus thiab ntaub
ntawv.
Yog pom li koj lawm thov ho taws tsau rau peb cov tsis pom kev tsau
ntuj nyob ntawm ntug cub no thiab peb thiaj yuav mus los sib cuag
ncua...kuv twb xa ntawv cab sab rau koj ob peb zaug lawm kuv xav tias
tsis piav los koj yuav paub txog qhov peb mus caum lawm.
Thov txhob ua siab deb koj li kev pab tseem yuav muaj vam ntxiv los
ntawv kuv tus kheej thiab peb pab Hmong MN Language Group...kuv pawg
ntseeg mas ho tsis koom puas tsawg...tiam sis pawg xav, Hmong MN
Language Group no kuj sib txhawb kawg lawm.
Tiam sis thov rov muab nthuav me, me tias peb kev (proposed) xam pom
li cas lawm. Cov tias xav kom siv mus no ces yog muaj nram no:
1. Siv tus ntawv Hmoob Las Tees (RPA); yog thaum twg muab tau los siv
no xav kom muab daws npe tshiab hu ua Ntawv Hmoob Thoob Ntuj:
Universal Hmong;
2. Tus ntawv Hmoob Thoob Ntuj no yuav tsum zwm cov lus Hmoob hab lug
Moob los ua ib hom lus (Hmoob), siv cov ntsiab lus Phaj Hauj los siv
ib yam; piv txwv, zaus & zauv; siv Hmoob cov lus hais nyog thoob ntiaj
teb los hais es txhob xam tias kuv nyob Xeev ces kuv cov thiaj yog cov
lus Hmoob tseem ceeb tsim nyog xwb;
3. Tsiaj Ntawv = Alphabet, Tsiaj Ntawv Txiv = Consonant, Tsiaj Ntawv
Niam = Vowels thiab Tsiaj Ntawv Cim = Tone markers;
4. Zaus = zero thiab Zauv = Number/Math; thiab
5. Npaug = Multiplication, Faib = Division, Rho = Subtraction thiab
Ntxiv = Addition
Cov ntsiab lus tseem yuav muab los tham tom ntej no seb sawv daws yuav
pom zoo li cas yog:
1. Sau ntawv sib dho (word compound); yog yuav sau no yuav tsim cai l
cas pab txhawb kev sau ntawv sib dho; piv txwv, kwv tij = kwvtij; me
nyuam = menyuam; phooj ywg = phoojywg; puas yuav cia dho cov lus uas
tsis muaj Tsiaj Ntawv Niam thiab Cim nyob sib npuab xwb los li cas?
2. Tee cim kab ntawv sau (punctuation marks); yog yuav siv tswv yim
ntaub ntawv Askiv no peb yuav xaiv cov tee cim li cas los siv thiab
yuav tis npe li cas rau? Piv txwv, period (.), comma (,), question
marks (?), exclamation mark (!) thiab lwm lub no peb yuav muab siv li
cas thiab tis npe Hmoob li cas rau?
3. Cov ntsiab lus thiab npe xws li shapes thiab color no yuav muaj
tis npe li cas? Piv txwv, circle, triangle, rectangle, color purple,
color pink, etc...
Tej no yeej tseem vam nej sawv daws li tswv yim pab thiab thiaj yuav
mus tau...
Vam tos nej li laj lim pab txhawb...
-Txiabneeb
Tzianeng Vang
-Txiabneeb
Hmong-Lao
Kuv yeej paub hais tias kuv cov lus yeej tub quag tib neeg heev.
Tabsis yog tsis siv cov lus tub tub qaug neeg no ces zhen yuav rhawv
ib cov ntawv Hmoob rau zhen pab pawg, Hmong-Lao yuav rhawv ib cov
ntawv Hmoob rau Hmong-Lao pabpawb, Txawjxab yauv rhawv Txawjxab ib co
ntawv Hmoob rau Txawj xab pabpawg, the list goes on. Qhov no yeej tsis
yog qhov koj, kuv, Txawjxab, Txiabneeb losis lwm leej lwm tus xav tau
los sav, puas yog?. Yog li no koj tseem ntshai tsam kuv hais tub qaug
cov neeg zoo li cov uas sib twb rhawv ntawv Hmoob thiab los? What
makes them so hard to accept others works, if not for fame? Koj tseem
hluas heev; koj tsis tau paub tib neeg lub siab zais nawb yog koj xav
hais tias luag yuav qhia ncaj qha hais tias nws rhawv tus ntaw no kom
nws nrov npe.
Phoojywg Txawjxab,
Ntshe yog kuv sau tom ntej rau tom qab lawm es zhen neb thiaj to taub
yuam kev lawm xwb. Kuv hais tias yuav kom neb lub hom phiaj
(standardizing ntawv Hmoog) ua tau hauj lwm mas yuav tsum siv hwjchim
li Huabtais Qin Shi Huag no xwb. Tabsis qhov no yeej tsis yog qhov peb
ib leej tus twg xav tau ne, puas yog? Yog li ntawd ho nrhiav lwm yam
tswv yim uas ntxim yuav muaj neeg ntau leej txhawb nqa thiab pom zoo
mas thiaj li tsis nkim sijhawm pob. Neb lub tswv yim no yeej zoo kawg,
tabsis txawm rhawv tau los yeej tsis muaj neeg yeem siv including cov
Hmoob, Hmub thiab Ab Hmaub.
Raws li qhov kuv soj ntsuam los mus, kuv yeej tsis pom hais tias Hmoob
Lees thiab Hmoob Dawb muaj teeb meem txog kev hais lus lossis sau
ntawd li los sad. Tus nyeem tsis tawm thiab tus nyeem tawm tabsis tsis
to taub ces yog nws tseem yuav tau kawm ntxiv xwb! Hos hais txog ntawm
cov Hmub thiab Ab Hmaub. Yog lawv yeem siv tus ntawd Hmoob RPA uas peb
siv no los kuj sib cog kho, sib cog kawm xwb. Yog luag tsis nyiam kawm
los kuj puam chawj thiab xwb les es, vim luag hais luag lus txawv peb
lawm ntau npaug ne! Hos hais txog ntawm cov Hmoob mas kuv xav hais
tias tsis nyuab npaum li cas ab! Yog peb xav promote tus ntawv no tiag
tiag ces peb txhawb nqa tej lub koom haum li Txhiabneeb lawv pabpawb
xwb tiag. Leej twg kawm ces peb pab nyiaj txiag ntiav kws qhia ntawv
thiab tseem pab materials tibsis. Dhau li ntawd, peb yuav tsum sib cog
sau ntawv kom ntau phau, sau cov kom neeg txaus siab nyem, sau txog
kablis kev cai, dabneeg (lug nruag), kwv haum, kev ntseeg, bible,
technical books, kev txawj ntse txhua yam (twb muaj ntau ntau nyeem
tsis tag lawm tabsis sau ntxiv thiab). Yog thaum muaj li no lawm, kuv
ntseeg hais tias cov Hmoob uas nyob rau lwm teb chaws li Suavteb thiab
Cobtsibteb yeej yuav yeem kawm tus ntawd no xwb. Tej zaum ntshe cov
Hmub thiab Ab Hmaub tseem yuav tig los nrog peb kawm los kuj muaj.
Note: Peb neeg tsawg dua, tabsis peb lub koob, lub luaj loog loj dua.
HL
zhen
> Kuv yeej paub hais tias kuv cov lus yeej tub quag tib neeg heev.
> Tabsis yog tsis siv cov lus tub tub qaug neeg no ces zhen yuav rhawv
> ib cov ntawv Hmoob rau zhen pab pawg, Hmong-Lao yuav rhawv ib cov
> ntawv Hmoob rau Hmong-Lao pabpawb, Txawjxab yauv rhawv Txawjxab ib co
> ntawv Hmoob rau Txawj xab pabpawg, the list goes on. Qhov no yeej tsis
> yog qhov koj, kuv, Txawjxab, Txiabneeb losis lwm leej lwm tus xav tau
> los sav, puas yog?. Yog li no koj tseem ntshai tsam kuv hais tub qaug
> cov neeg zoo li cov uas sib twb rhawv ntawv Hmoob thiab los? What
> makes them so hard to accept others works, if not for fame? Koj tseem
> hluas heev; koj tsis tau paub tib neeg lub siab zais nawb yog koj xav
> hais tias luag yuav qhia ncaj qha hais tias nws rhawv tus ntaw no kom
> nws nrov npe.
what you are saying does not even make sense. you offended and
continue to offend the inventors as saying they want fame that is why
they created such and such writing systems. that is wrong. you did not
even answer the question, how many inventors did you talk with and how
many responded to you with something that could be remotely
interpreted as a desire for fame?
are you saying that txawj xab and zhen want fame too? that is why we
think this way? if you misspoke, admit that. if you really mean to say
that zhen wants "fame" then admit that. don't lie to yourself and do a
pony show to hide your true intentions. see, just because you hide
your true intentions, does not mean others do so. it is no wonder we
hmong cannot go far, because we don't need a qin shi huang.di to kill
our scholars, we already have those who think like you who will do the
job.
more so, you insulting them does not prevent the creation of more
writing systems. it just makes you look like a dumbass who does not
know how to bring his point across articulately.
kuv tsis ntshai koj hais lus tub qaug lawv, tiam si yog koj tsis
ntshai no koj kuj qhia npe kiag seb yom? that's what i thought. don't
act all big and mighty, and then chicken shit out.
zhen
> Koj hais koj cov lus los kuj yog lawm. Peb yuav luag txhua tus Hmoob
> yeej hais li koj hais. Tus neeg tsim dab tsi los yog ntshaw xav
> nrhov. cov neeg hlub Hmoob es nrhiav tswv yim kho Hmoob es Hmoob xav
> tias nws xav nrhov no ces Hmoob thiaj pheej muab tua pov tseg. Hmoob
> thiaj ua ib haiv neeg poob qab.
who is SLY? who is NDX? who is NVH? these people are but footnotes, if
even that, in our history. if it is "fame" they are after, why travel
such a difficult and dangerous road as creating a writing system?
surely, BOTH of you, must agree with me, that there are EASIER routes
to achieve "fame" if "fame" indeed is the first, foremost, and primary
objective, than creating a writing system out love for the hmong
people, no? did smalley, barney and bertrais wanted "fame" when they
created RPA? how much reward did their "fame" afford them?
one without love for his people cannot create writing systems as
different and complete as these individuals have, no?
are we to say, tsab mim xyooj, vwj paj cai, soob lwj yaj were after
"fame" so they did what they did? the historical, parenthetical
remarks will say about tsab mim xyooj (crazy man attempted to
establish hmong sovereignty), vwj paj cai (man led crazy war against
french oppression), and soob lwj yaj (crazy man invented a hmong
writing system). that is probably better than, man attempted to
establish hmong sovereignty for fame, man rebelled for fame, man
created writing system for fame? see, like i said, i don't really
think outsiders and westerners could ever minimize and trivialize our
people, individuals, culture, and history as much as any one of us
ever can.
"fame", if there was such a thing for SLY et al, was a inadvertent by-
product of their true intentions. "fame" never last. "fame" is what we
value the person, via the utility of their product, to be after they
have placed their will in the fire of self-sacrifice to create a
writing system. without passion, without genius, without the
categorical imperative to do what's right independent of the outcome,
i am highly confident, hmong people and history would have erased the
name and works of SLY and those like him. no?
you both know, there is no "fame" and there is no "fortune" to travel
this road. there is only suffering, endurance, tenacity, hardship, and
in the end, as validated by SLY, death awaiting.
Hmong-Lao
Koj xav yuam kev dua lawm. Kuv twb hais tias neb qhov tswv yim yeej
zoo. Txawm kuv tsis piav lub ntsiab los kuv yeej muaj intension hais
tias neb lub tswv yim yeej zoo: Neb muaj lub hom phiaj xav kom txhua
tsav Hmoob los sibsau ua kev, siv tib tug ntawd. Kom lwm haiv Hmoob
sau los peb nyeem tau thiab to taub and vise versa. Tabsis nws yog ib
qhov uas neeg yuav tsis lees siv, ces nkim zog xwb. Kom siv lubsij
hawm los txhim kho tej yam ntawv uas twb muaj lawm thiab neeg txhawb
nqa thiab poog mas thiaj tsis nkim sij hawm.
Hos lawv cov uas tau rhawv ntawv Hmoob uas tag los ntawd, tej tug kuj
muaj hom phiaj zoo (SLY), tabsis feem ntau yog lawv xav kom lawv
pabpawg hwm thiab qhuas lawv xwb, lawv tsis muaj hom phiaj yuav sau
Hmoob, lawv ua yam uas lawv twb sis xav tom ntej tom qab li. Ua li
lawv ua ces Hmob hajyam sib tawg. Lo lus "for fame" no offend koj npau
li koj twb yog ib tug ntawd lawm as! Tabsis kuv personally paub cov no
tus puav zoo (Nom Dawb & Txawj Vag), nkawv coj siab txias thiab hais
lus zoo heev.
Li cas los koj yeej improve kev hais lus los lawm hov ntau, keep your
good work,
HL
zhen
cas hnub no tsuas yog pom wb thiaj tuaj tuaj hu kwv txhiaj xwb naj?
lawv dua tawg tas lawm os??????? nej cov niag tsov tom tsov kawv.
> Koj xav yuam kev dua lawm.
tsis yog kuv xav yuam kev dua, tiam si, koj pheej hloov hloov lus naj.
yog hais kom ib nyuag hnyav zog no, koj muaj ntsis ntxeev lus naj.
txhob ua ua li meb. dias dias taub hau thaib os.
> Kuv twb hais tias neb qhov tswv yim yeej
> zoo. Txawm kuv tsis piav lub ntsiab los kuv yeej muaj intension hais
> tias neb lub tswv yim yeej zoo: Neb muaj lub hom phiaj xav kom txhua
> tsav Hmoob los sibsau ua kev, siv tib tug ntawd. Kom lwm haiv Hmoob
> sau los peb nyeem tau thiab to taub and vise versa. Tabsis nws yog ib
> qhov uas neeg yuav tsis lees siv, ces nkim zog xwb. Kom siv lubsij
> hawm los txhim kho tej yam ntawv uas twb muaj lawm thiab neeg txhawb
> nqa thiab poog mas thiaj tsis nkim sij hawm.
now that is a relaxation and revision of the stance you took earlier.
let me ask you, what more is there to "fix" with RPA? i think txawj
xab wrote a very convincing argument that there is a limit as to how
far one can evolve RPA to address these issues and concerns. even now,
you don't see that, and you are a very bright individual, and so what
does this say about the mass? (of course, rhetorical).
nkim sij hawm mas yog peb pheej niaj hnub tuaj hais hmoob, moob,
mhoob, hmong, mong, HMong, Mhong, no pov... tej no tsis yog nkim sij
hawm xwb, tiam si, tseem ua rau peb rov tawg thiab to taub yuam kev.
raws li kuv ntseeg, yog koj ua qhov yog lawm, tib neeg yeej yuav los
ntseeg qhov yog ntawv (lawv tsis yog ntseeg koj ov, lawv ntseeg qhov
koj ua yog xwb ov).
> Hos lawv cov uas tau rhawv ntawv Hmoob uas tag los ntawd, tej tug kuj
> muaj hom phiaj zoo (SLY), tabsis feem ntau yog lawv xav kom lawv
> pabpawg hwm thiab qhuas lawv xwb, lawv tsis muaj hom phiaj yuav sau
> Hmoob, lawv ua yam uas lawv twb sis xav tom ntej tom qab li.
koj pom xeeb hais li kov es kuv thiaj li noog koj, cov no yog leej twg
pab twg hom ntawv twg? muab npe. muab system.
> Ua li
> lawv ua ces Hmob hajyam sib tawg. Lo lus "for fame" no offend koj npau
> li koj twb yog ib tug ntawd lawm as!
av, koj yeej hais raws kev iab liam koj tus kheej es. tsis offend kuv,
tiam si, qhia rau kuv tias koj txoj kev xav nyob chaw ti ti.
> Tabsis kuv personally paub cov no
> tus puav zoo (Nom Dawb & Txawj Vag), nkawv coj siab txias thiab hais
> lus zoo heev.
awv, hais li koj hais ces kuv los yeej paub nkawv ob tug thiab nawb.
koj kuj sim hais rau nkawv, "cas neb es yuav xav nrov npe ua luaj
li?"
Hmong-Lao
Yuav sib cav lwm yam ces yeej tsis muaj hnub kawg. Cia los tham txog
kev txhim kho tus ntawd RPA no me ntsis tso.
Cov ntawd Hmoob uas peb niaj hnub siv no yeej tseem tsis tau muaj
txhua, tabsis peb yeej kho ntxiv rau taug kawg.
PY Txawjxab cov lus piv txwv:
"
Hmoob: tus tub, ib lub, dub
Moob: tug tug, ib lub, dlub
Ad Hmaob: Dol (tum+g) dob (tub), ib (is) lob (lus), dlob (dlus)
Ad Hmiaom: (taab taam), (im laan), (glaam)
Hnub: dail (taim+g) daib (tai), ib (i) laib (lais), dlaib (dlais)
"
Tus ntawd Hmoob RPA tamsis no (current version) twb sau tau yuav luag
tas ob peb lo lus piv txwv no ned! Tsuas tshuav lo puav uas yuav tau
txhim kho me ntsis rau xwb ces siv tau lawm.
tum+g = tumg
taim+g = taimg
Qhov teeb meem tamsij no ces yog lawv qhov Ab Hmaub version (Pollar
Script) thiab Hmoob version RPA sib txawv me ntsis lawm xwb.
Piv txiw li:
Hmoob Ab Hmaub
cim s b
suab u o
Tej yam li no xwb mas kho yeej tau nawb.
Suab lus Hmoob uas peb niaj hnub siv no los twb tseem yuav tau txhim
kho ntxiv:
Xws li:
Plwg thuaib (ua + ai = uai)
Ov miv miaub (ia + au = iau)
Uaoj! mob ua luaj (ua + o = uao)
HL
zhen
ych...@yahoo.com
Ua cas yuavntxim ntuav ua luaj li. Yuav los tsim ntawv HMOOB rau HMOOB
kawm es tseem hais tias UH KWV Txhiaj ntuj aw tos tis npe tav zaj tav
ua Zhen os Haj.....haj....haj....haj........
zhen
lwj li lawm, ntuav los ntxiv koj niag ntxhiab tsw lwj xwb. kuv puas
tau hais tias kuv yuav tsim no mas niag dev? niag ntsej muag quav li
koj kov es pw zoo zoo ua npau suav seb koj puas paub kuv lub npe
txhais li cas nawb. ov im ov im aws..
butt meos on the loose.
besto...@gmail.com
Kuv nyuam qhuav pom txoj cai zoo tshaj plaws uas tau coj rov qab kuv txoj kev zoo siab los ntawm kev pab kom kuv tau txais kuv tus ex rov qab tom qab 2years thiab kuv yuav tsum ua tsaug rau dr.okoro uas tau ua lub luag haujlwm tseem ceeb hauv kuv lub neej ua rau kuv yog ib tus neeg zoo thiab tus neeg muaj kev zoo siab tshaj plaws hnub no koj yog ib tug txiv neej zoo uas yog koob hmoov los ntawm Vajtswv nrog yeej txoj kev yeej, tom qab dr.okoro tau pab kuv kom tau kuv tus ex rov qab nws tseem pab kuv rov qab yam uas kuv tau ploj ntawm kuv kuv yuav tsum ua tsaug rau dr.okoro rau lub neej nws tau txum tim rov qab los rov qab rau kuv thiab kuv txoj kev zoo siab. Tam sim no kuv ua tau zoo nyob hauv kuv txoj hauj lwm zoo siab nrog kuv tus poj niam, dr.okoro yog ib tug tshaj lij tshaj lij heev cas koj yuav tsum paub kom ntsib nws thiab koj cov teeb meem yuav dhau mus ..
Ib zaug ntxiv koj tuaj yeem tiv tauj nws hauv email: -Besto...@gmail.com
los sis whatsapp tooj +35677141459