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Science-Based Thinking Vs. Anecdotal Appeals & Gibberish (aka "Deep Thoughts Science Can't Explain")
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HenryDavidT
Mar 2, 2015, 8:14:37 AM3/2/15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0YtL5eiBYw
Here, in this "debate," you have two doctors against two other doctors.
They are all SEEMINGLY well educated...
Two (Abner Alexander, Harvard Medical School and Dr. Raymond Moody) say, based on THEIR KNOWLEDGE and personal experiences, they KNOW there's a HEAVEN where you find your dead parents, ancestors, Jesus, God, all the Christian saints and Muslims holy warrior martyrs.
(You notice that both ISLAM and CHRISTIANITY are based on ABRAHAMIC fairy tales; so God and Allah are, essentially, the SAME "creator of the Universe" known by different names due to different languages, with Arabic and Muslims calling THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE "Allah" and Christians calling HIM "God" aka as "Jesus" when we talk about his existence HERE ON EARTH, at the height of the Roman Empire, which, as you know, crucified HIM, for "original sin" WE ALL HAVE, regardless whether you're Christian or not now! See the CHILDISHNESS of these Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-derived Middle Eastern, goat & camel herding tribal stories?)
And the other two doctors, Sean Carroll of Cal Tech and Steven Novella, MD, from Yale School of Medicine, saying.... "That's snake oil salesman bullshit." But, of course, they couched that in nicer and more polite "debating" phrases and terms.
The one thing I want you to get out of this is, if nothing else:
Just because you have an advanced degree in a particular field, so you could be hired as a SPECIALIST for that technical job DOES NOT MAKE YOU WHAT WE WOULD SOMETIMES CALLED A BROADLY "EDUCATED PERSON."
Or, to be more blunt about it:
Sporting degrees of the various kinds WON'T and CAN'T save you from looking and sounding like uneducated snake oil sales people, even if you're VERY SUCCESSFUL at your snake oil sales, with BILLIONS OF FAITHFUL FOLLOWERS, like the 1.2B Christians into this Adam/Eve/Noah/Moses/Jesus nonsense and the 1.6B Muslims who are into this Abraham/Mohammed/Allah nonsense... And OTHER similar superstitious nonsense that ALL KINDS OF HUMAN TRIBES COME UP WITH THROUGHOUT HISTORY...
The GIVEN --- although it does sometimes allude people --- is this:
Science WON'T explain childish fairy tales & gibberish couched as deep (OR MAGICAL or SHAMANIC sacred) thoughts OF and ABOUT:
1. imaginary beings and divine & holy & super-power;
2. existences beyond this universe (like those in #5 below here);
3. holy prophets and warriors;
4. creators of the universe;
5. Paradise/Heaven (for nice and pious Christians and Muslims), Hell (for Liberals, Atheists, AND THE REST who don't believe in Jesus/God/Allah);
6. dead loved ones;
7. ancestors;
8. spirits of the skies;
9. Satan, Santa Claus, Lucifer, Ntxwg Nyug, the Devil, Evil, Elves, Witches, etc.
It is NOT that Science "can't" explain them "because they are beyond science and are too deep."
No!
Science "can't" explain them because they are fairy tale nonsense.
Science deals with virtual particles, sub-atomic particles, atoms, molecules, germs and bacteria, large animals, moving objects and speeds and magnitudes and positions, and large and small baryonic and non-baryonic matter/energy that lend themselves, NO MATTER HOW DIFFICULT INITIALLY, to logic, mathematics, human history, linguistics, biology, chemistry, evolutionary science, etc.
Science does NOT deal with wishes, fairy tales, sacred or holy shamanic knowledge and rituals, magic and magical or sacred thoughts, holy books and creators of the universe and their HOLY PLANS contained in those "holy books" for which and over which Christians, Jews, and Muslims have been killing each, for hundreds of years...
Here, in this "debate," you have two doctors against two other doctors.
They are all SEEMINGLY well educated...
Two (Abner Alexander, Harvard Medical School and Dr. Raymond Moody) say, based on THEIR KNOWLEDGE and personal experiences, they KNOW there's a HEAVEN where you find your dead parents, ancestors, Jesus, God, all the Christian saints and Muslims holy warrior martyrs.
(You notice that both ISLAM and CHRISTIANITY are based on ABRAHAMIC fairy tales; so God and Allah are, essentially, the SAME "creator of the Universe" known by different names due to different languages, with Arabic and Muslims calling THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE "Allah" and Christians calling HIM "God" aka as "Jesus" when we talk about his existence HERE ON EARTH, at the height of the Roman Empire, which, as you know, crucified HIM, for "original sin" WE ALL HAVE, regardless whether you're Christian or not now! See the CHILDISHNESS of these Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-derived Middle Eastern, goat & camel herding tribal stories?)
And the other two doctors, Sean Carroll of Cal Tech and Steven Novella, MD, from Yale School of Medicine, saying.... "That's snake oil salesman bullshit." But, of course, they couched that in nicer and more polite "debating" phrases and terms.
The one thing I want you to get out of this is, if nothing else:
Just because you have an advanced degree in a particular field, so you could be hired as a SPECIALIST for that technical job DOES NOT MAKE YOU WHAT WE WOULD SOMETIMES CALLED A BROADLY "EDUCATED PERSON."
Or, to be more blunt about it:
Sporting degrees of the various kinds WON'T and CAN'T save you from looking and sounding like uneducated snake oil sales people, even if you're VERY SUCCESSFUL at your snake oil sales, with BILLIONS OF FAITHFUL FOLLOWERS, like the 1.2B Christians into this Adam/Eve/Noah/Moses/Jesus nonsense and the 1.6B Muslims who are into this Abraham/Mohammed/Allah nonsense... And OTHER similar superstitious nonsense that ALL KINDS OF HUMAN TRIBES COME UP WITH THROUGHOUT HISTORY...
The GIVEN --- although it does sometimes allude people --- is this:
Science WON'T explain childish fairy tales & gibberish couched as deep (OR MAGICAL or SHAMANIC sacred) thoughts OF and ABOUT:
1. imaginary beings and divine & holy & super-power;
2. existences beyond this universe (like those in #5 below here);
3. holy prophets and warriors;
4. creators of the universe;
5. Paradise/Heaven (for nice and pious Christians and Muslims), Hell (for Liberals, Atheists, AND THE REST who don't believe in Jesus/God/Allah);
6. dead loved ones;
7. ancestors;
8. spirits of the skies;
9. Satan, Santa Claus, Lucifer, Ntxwg Nyug, the Devil, Evil, Elves, Witches, etc.
It is NOT that Science "can't" explain them "because they are beyond science and are too deep."
No!
Science "can't" explain them because they are fairy tale nonsense.
Science deals with virtual particles, sub-atomic particles, atoms, molecules, germs and bacteria, large animals, moving objects and speeds and magnitudes and positions, and large and small baryonic and non-baryonic matter/energy that lend themselves, NO MATTER HOW DIFFICULT INITIALLY, to logic, mathematics, human history, linguistics, biology, chemistry, evolutionary science, etc.
Science does NOT deal with wishes, fairy tales, sacred or holy shamanic knowledge and rituals, magic and magical or sacred thoughts, holy books and creators of the universe and their HOLY PLANS contained in those "holy books" for which and over which Christians, Jews, and Muslims have been killing each, for hundreds of years...
yag...@gmail.com
Mar 2, 2015, 11:10:14 AM3/2/15
to
her...
i'm curious..i'm sure you also meant science does not deal with "moral issues" either. so, when does your "moral" character comes into play (whether good/bad)?
yh
i'm curious..i'm sure you also meant science does not deal with "moral issues" either. so, when does your "moral" character comes into play (whether good/bad)?
yh
HenryDavidT
Mar 2, 2015, 11:59:15 AM3/2/15
to
Things, concepts, beliefs, practices, and understanding of what we called MORALITY AND ETHICS are derived from the "education" --- both formal and informal --- of individuals living within a certain tribal, group, or societal context or environment.
Morality and ethics, therefore, are NOT vey specific subjects, even though people think (erroneously) they are.
Science doesn't deal, at least not very satisfactorily, with very broad issues.
Meta-analysis of scientific inquiries has helped and will continue to help us understand better what we mean by "morality and ethics;" but since SCIENCE focuses on ever-narrower, ever-deeper, ever-smaller, ever-more-precise subjects, activities, and domains.... science can't specifically put "morality and ethics" into nice little boxes or equations or short "statement of facts/truths."
And "meta-analysis" is not something fanciful; it just means a careful study, or set of studies, of human groups and their beliefs, practices, acts like war, aggression, violence, etc.
THE BETTER ANGELS OF OUR NATURE, by Steven Pinker of Harvard, is a good example of such a "study."
Such a more-systematic study of human history and activities REVEALED, for example, Pinker argued, that OVER-ALL human aggression, violence, deaths (due to war and violence specifically), suicide, homicide, genocide, etc. HAVE STEADILY DECREASED and today, he argued, we are living in the SAFEST EPOCH in human history.
As you can see, that means such studies explain the GENERAL TRAJECTORY (or development or advancement) of what you'd call MORALITY AND ETHICS, as they manifest themselves in very broad, cultural contexts...
That means TWO VERY IMPORTANT THINGS:
#1. Morality and ethics, ALL POLITICALLY CORRECT ARGUMENTS TO THE CONTRARY NOTWITHSTANDING, are situational or context-dependent
#2. Morality and ethics EVOLVE and CHANGE over time (and that means they also are TIME-DEPENDENT)
NO ONE IS BORN with "good," much less "perfect," morality and ethics. Although some individuals are born with some neurological or pathological manifestations of some type, LITERALLY IN THE BRAINS, so they may be very bright, very devious, or very this or that... but that is quite different from MORALITY AND ETHICS.
Your beliefs in, as well as, practice of ethical and moral understanding, therefore, DEPEND on those who nurture you... on the broad and narrow environments in which you found yourself...
That means, in a generally valid argument, if those who give birth to you and who nurture you --- in short, if your "environment(s)" --- are people who see farther and deeper, who are more literate, who are more tolerant of different and divergent ideas (politics, civics, religious, etc)... CHANCES ARE you, too, WOULD LIKELY grow up to believe in and to practice AND TO ADVANCE the kind of morality and ethics that would naturally BUILD ON TOP of such a people and such an environment...
In a reverse corollary:
If you are born into and are raised by a people, and raised in an environment, where lives are shorter and more brutish, and either you take whatever you can, AT THE MOMENT you are able to, OR SOMEONE else could take it, or take it from you, at any moment.... then chances are you'd have morality and ethics that would be appropriate to such a people and such an environment...
Anyway, the jest to all this ranting is as follows:
This is why each and EVERY TIME Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Animists and every other tribal people spew their tribal views about HUMAN MORALITY AND ETHICS being handed down, being given, or being dictated directly or indirectly by some imaginary CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE --- AND DICTATED OR GIVEN AS PERFECT AND IT'S ONLY some people's LACK of the TRUE or BETTER understanding of such perfect or intrinsically good morality and ethics... that's what's causing all these tragedies around the world... but that if we all would just go down to our knees and start reading, memorizing, and spewing HOLY BOOKS, TEXTS, etc. as taught by qualified or holy preachers, clerics, or other "experts" in such BS ---- that such nonsense must be immediately shot down as nothing but uneducated assertions, AT BEST, and blatant lies, at worse.
But, again, the fact of the matter is, not only do morality and ethics situational, contextualized, and historically-dependent but they are also EVOLVING from one era to the next.
(The philosopher Daniel Dennett wrote beautifully on this notion of morality and ethics being EVOLVING concepts, beliefs, ideas, and practices of humanity.)
In that sense, then, morality and ethics ALSO GROW AND EVOLVE AND GET BETTER, we hope.... very much like science and the knowledge we attain by using SYSTEMATIZED and yet-ever-improving ways and methods... at both the individual and societal levels...
Morality and ethics, therefore, are NOT vey specific subjects, even though people think (erroneously) they are.
Science doesn't deal, at least not very satisfactorily, with very broad issues.
Meta-analysis of scientific inquiries has helped and will continue to help us understand better what we mean by "morality and ethics;" but since SCIENCE focuses on ever-narrower, ever-deeper, ever-smaller, ever-more-precise subjects, activities, and domains.... science can't specifically put "morality and ethics" into nice little boxes or equations or short "statement of facts/truths."
And "meta-analysis" is not something fanciful; it just means a careful study, or set of studies, of human groups and their beliefs, practices, acts like war, aggression, violence, etc.
THE BETTER ANGELS OF OUR NATURE, by Steven Pinker of Harvard, is a good example of such a "study."
Such a more-systematic study of human history and activities REVEALED, for example, Pinker argued, that OVER-ALL human aggression, violence, deaths (due to war and violence specifically), suicide, homicide, genocide, etc. HAVE STEADILY DECREASED and today, he argued, we are living in the SAFEST EPOCH in human history.
As you can see, that means such studies explain the GENERAL TRAJECTORY (or development or advancement) of what you'd call MORALITY AND ETHICS, as they manifest themselves in very broad, cultural contexts...
That means TWO VERY IMPORTANT THINGS:
#1. Morality and ethics, ALL POLITICALLY CORRECT ARGUMENTS TO THE CONTRARY NOTWITHSTANDING, are situational or context-dependent
#2. Morality and ethics EVOLVE and CHANGE over time (and that means they also are TIME-DEPENDENT)
NO ONE IS BORN with "good," much less "perfect," morality and ethics. Although some individuals are born with some neurological or pathological manifestations of some type, LITERALLY IN THE BRAINS, so they may be very bright, very devious, or very this or that... but that is quite different from MORALITY AND ETHICS.
Your beliefs in, as well as, practice of ethical and moral understanding, therefore, DEPEND on those who nurture you... on the broad and narrow environments in which you found yourself...
That means, in a generally valid argument, if those who give birth to you and who nurture you --- in short, if your "environment(s)" --- are people who see farther and deeper, who are more literate, who are more tolerant of different and divergent ideas (politics, civics, religious, etc)... CHANCES ARE you, too, WOULD LIKELY grow up to believe in and to practice AND TO ADVANCE the kind of morality and ethics that would naturally BUILD ON TOP of such a people and such an environment...
In a reverse corollary:
If you are born into and are raised by a people, and raised in an environment, where lives are shorter and more brutish, and either you take whatever you can, AT THE MOMENT you are able to, OR SOMEONE else could take it, or take it from you, at any moment.... then chances are you'd have morality and ethics that would be appropriate to such a people and such an environment...
Anyway, the jest to all this ranting is as follows:
This is why each and EVERY TIME Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Animists and every other tribal people spew their tribal views about HUMAN MORALITY AND ETHICS being handed down, being given, or being dictated directly or indirectly by some imaginary CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE --- AND DICTATED OR GIVEN AS PERFECT AND IT'S ONLY some people's LACK of the TRUE or BETTER understanding of such perfect or intrinsically good morality and ethics... that's what's causing all these tragedies around the world... but that if we all would just go down to our knees and start reading, memorizing, and spewing HOLY BOOKS, TEXTS, etc. as taught by qualified or holy preachers, clerics, or other "experts" in such BS ---- that such nonsense must be immediately shot down as nothing but uneducated assertions, AT BEST, and blatant lies, at worse.
But, again, the fact of the matter is, not only do morality and ethics situational, contextualized, and historically-dependent but they are also EVOLVING from one era to the next.
(The philosopher Daniel Dennett wrote beautifully on this notion of morality and ethics being EVOLVING concepts, beliefs, ideas, and practices of humanity.)
In that sense, then, morality and ethics ALSO GROW AND EVOLVE AND GET BETTER, we hope.... very much like science and the knowledge we attain by using SYSTEMATIZED and yet-ever-improving ways and methods... at both the individual and societal levels...
yag...@gmail.com
Mar 2, 2015, 12:20:57 PM3/2/15
to
yes...
but kuv nug koj specifically xwb...when does your morality come into play in your everyday life? i'm asking this because--from what you said--it seesm you don't believe in it because it is "fairytale" land. if this is the case, then why practice being "good". i'm not referring to "good" as in what is is per how you are raised. i'm refering to the "golden rule" or something similar to that.
if it has no meaning to science then why practice being "good"?
yh
but kuv nug koj specifically xwb...when does your morality come into play in your everyday life? i'm asking this because--from what you said--it seesm you don't believe in it because it is "fairytale" land. if this is the case, then why practice being "good". i'm not referring to "good" as in what is is per how you are raised. i'm refering to the "golden rule" or something similar to that.
if it has no meaning to science then why practice being "good"?
yh
HenryDavidT
Mar 2, 2015, 12:47:35 PM3/2/15
to
Education.
More specifically, a decently broad education --- on history, linguistics, mathematics, logic, philosophy, biology, chemistry, etc.
By "history," I mean REAL human history, not the imaginary kinds that religious people like to swallow and to spew in private and in public, about holy and divine ideas, books, characters, revelation, etc.
In any event, notions and things and beliefs in "morality and ethics" are not at the top of my list of "important things," although they are, again, deeply ingrained... from contextualized/cultural/tribal/society living environments we found ourselves...
Lastly, MY PERSONAL morality and ethics are IRRLEVANT in broader-issue discussions, though they may be used as examples in specific instances. Just can't be and shouldn't be used LIKE THIS TWO DOCTORS who say they either personally or have known PEOPLE who have DIED, temporarily, gone to Heaven and met with DEAD FAMILY MEMBERS and are now back among us, the living,,, with a REAL PERSONAL STORY TO TELL and BOOKS to sell, on such fairy tale, snake oil nonsense...
More specifically, a decently broad education --- on history, linguistics, mathematics, logic, philosophy, biology, chemistry, etc.
By "history," I mean REAL human history, not the imaginary kinds that religious people like to swallow and to spew in private and in public, about holy and divine ideas, books, characters, revelation, etc.
In any event, notions and things and beliefs in "morality and ethics" are not at the top of my list of "important things," although they are, again, deeply ingrained... from contextualized/cultural/tribal/society living environments we found ourselves...
Lastly, MY PERSONAL morality and ethics are IRRLEVANT in broader-issue discussions, though they may be used as examples in specific instances. Just can't be and shouldn't be used LIKE THIS TWO DOCTORS who say they either personally or have known PEOPLE who have DIED, temporarily, gone to Heaven and met with DEAD FAMILY MEMBERS and are now back among us, the living,,, with a REAL PERSONAL STORY TO TELL and BOOKS to sell, on such fairy tale, snake oil nonsense...
yag...@gmail.com
Mar 2, 2015, 1:25:39 PM3/2/15
to
some say that atheism (or say...science) is the rejection of deities. but some say that no no...atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. in other words, there is no proof of god/gods, santa clause, etc..yet.
now, there is a big difference between facts and belief. but, it is sad that most people refer to beliefs or say, for example, hallucinations, as factual/provable. these things, as we all know, are just beliefs. i am not sure if you get my messages in the past 20 years on my stance (regarding the lala land dimension), but to be honest with you, i still do not know where you stand on our "beliefs" when science doesnt' support it.
speaking factually (from my own conclusion), beliefs/pogyawg, etc was created so a person can be "morally" competent, especially when involving other people. i am the way i am because of the way i was taught per beliefs (not necessarily religionwise)...
you are the way you because of the way you are raised (whether from religion, other people, history, etc)...but i do believe, again, that religion (or pog/yawg) was created so taht a person would be morally competent as a person when dealing with the self and others.
with this in mind, do you not realized that you are who you are because of your belief in that "entity" called "education" or mom/dad?
anyone can make an argument that "there is no such thing as "education" or "mom/dad"...because these morality issues are just common sense.
the two doctors in this post are made to look like extremists...one holding onto pog/yawg and on rejecting it. what concerns me is the fact that one of them refuses to aceept that it may only be a hallucination...and the other rejecting that there may be a 10th dimension unknown to science where the papas and the lucifees live...
you of all people shold understsand this more than any of us. the crazy possibilities are limitless..
anway, what i'm saying is...you maybe be more spiritually driven than you know my friend.
yh
now, there is a big difference between facts and belief. but, it is sad that most people refer to beliefs or say, for example, hallucinations, as factual/provable. these things, as we all know, are just beliefs. i am not sure if you get my messages in the past 20 years on my stance (regarding the lala land dimension), but to be honest with you, i still do not know where you stand on our "beliefs" when science doesnt' support it.
speaking factually (from my own conclusion), beliefs/pogyawg, etc was created so a person can be "morally" competent, especially when involving other people. i am the way i am because of the way i was taught per beliefs (not necessarily religionwise)...
you are the way you because of the way you are raised (whether from religion, other people, history, etc)...but i do believe, again, that religion (or pog/yawg) was created so taht a person would be morally competent as a person when dealing with the self and others.
with this in mind, do you not realized that you are who you are because of your belief in that "entity" called "education" or mom/dad?
anyone can make an argument that "there is no such thing as "education" or "mom/dad"...because these morality issues are just common sense.
the two doctors in this post are made to look like extremists...one holding onto pog/yawg and on rejecting it. what concerns me is the fact that one of them refuses to aceept that it may only be a hallucination...and the other rejecting that there may be a 10th dimension unknown to science where the papas and the lucifees live...
you of all people shold understsand this more than any of us. the crazy possibilities are limitless..
anway, what i'm saying is...you maybe be more spiritually driven than you know my friend.
yh
HenryDavidT
Mar 2, 2015, 3:24:10 PM3/2/15
to
Some things, or ideas, by their very lack of importance or relevance --- like Gods & Goddesses, Holy Virgins, Holy Prophet riding a WINGED HORSE, Satan and the Devil and Lucifer, Santa Claus & Mrs. Claus, Elves & Fairies & Witches, Unicorns, Ntxwg Nyug, Poj Yawm Txwv Koob, Dab Ntuj Dab Teb, Khawv Koob, Zaj, Poj Ntxoog, Dab Pim Nyuj Vais, etc. --- just don't need any proof (neither positively nor negatively, since they don't exist, as they are just childish ideas, entities, and places... invented to tell twisted "moral" stories, by either story tellers [who just wanted to entertain] or by snake oil sales people [who want to profit]....)
True, "possibilities" are indeed likely "endless."
But it's likely THOSE ARE the possibilities that come about, or articulated, by scientists ------ NOT those dreamed up by Shamans, Popes, Saints, Islamists, Animists, Hindus, Christians, Jews, and/or any other religious individuals or groups...
For example, it is estimated that the stuff of which we are made, BARYONIC MATTER (things that are made of ATOMS so that light and other ordinary properties of nature ordinarily deal with), is only around 5% or so of the total stuff of which the known universe is made... and astronomers and astrophysicists have haphazardly named the things THEY HAVE NO CLUES ABOUT "dark matter and dark energy."
Note: despite some of the literature, EVEN SCIENTIFIC ONES, that said "dark matter" and "dark energy" have been "DISCOVERED," they have NOT!
Their existence or possible existence are only deduced INDIRECTLY in that they seem to give the weight as well as the STRUCTURAL SCAFFOLD to the visible universe... in ways that are necessary, for the known galactic and super-galactic structures that span the breadth and depth of the universe; and yet they are NOT directly detected, much less known in exact quantity or magnitude.
This is why I hate it, when scientists added one UNKNOWN thing ("dark matter") on top of another that is even "more exotic" and more unknown ("dark energy") and said they knew the two unknowns EXACT BREAK DOWNS in exact percentages....
Do a hypothetical 7th grade ALGEBRAIC problem, of 3 variables with only ONE known and two unknown, and you'd find that you CAN'T solve the problem.... MUCH LESS knowing which of the two unknowns gave how much, in terms of percentage, to the total amount of the equation of 3 variables.
Of course, astronomers and astrophysicists have much more complex and knowledge of how to deal with unknowns; but still, ultimately, if there are 3 variables and ONLY ONE IS KNOWN, you can't really tell me the TWO UNKNOWNS are also known in terms of their magnitude, amount, speed, or size... it doesn't matter what kind of clever mathematical contraption you use...
Anyway, THOSE ARE THE "limitless possibilities" that are to be discovered and to be proven, NOT the primitive and/or childish nonsense about FICTIONAL things, characters, things, existences, etc., as articulated by ignorant and/or religious people and their "holy" or "sacred" books --- which are really nothing more than books and stories compiled from Stone, Iron, and Bronze age folklore, myths, and oral stories ... of and about unknown things that moved in the dark, appeared in the skies, shook the ground, plagued the villages or tribes, miracles, deep thoughts that "science can't disprove," etc.
True, "possibilities" are indeed likely "endless."
But it's likely THOSE ARE the possibilities that come about, or articulated, by scientists ------ NOT those dreamed up by Shamans, Popes, Saints, Islamists, Animists, Hindus, Christians, Jews, and/or any other religious individuals or groups...
For example, it is estimated that the stuff of which we are made, BARYONIC MATTER (things that are made of ATOMS so that light and other ordinary properties of nature ordinarily deal with), is only around 5% or so of the total stuff of which the known universe is made... and astronomers and astrophysicists have haphazardly named the things THEY HAVE NO CLUES ABOUT "dark matter and dark energy."
Note: despite some of the literature, EVEN SCIENTIFIC ONES, that said "dark matter" and "dark energy" have been "DISCOVERED," they have NOT!
Their existence or possible existence are only deduced INDIRECTLY in that they seem to give the weight as well as the STRUCTURAL SCAFFOLD to the visible universe... in ways that are necessary, for the known galactic and super-galactic structures that span the breadth and depth of the universe; and yet they are NOT directly detected, much less known in exact quantity or magnitude.
This is why I hate it, when scientists added one UNKNOWN thing ("dark matter") on top of another that is even "more exotic" and more unknown ("dark energy") and said they knew the two unknowns EXACT BREAK DOWNS in exact percentages....
Do a hypothetical 7th grade ALGEBRAIC problem, of 3 variables with only ONE known and two unknown, and you'd find that you CAN'T solve the problem.... MUCH LESS knowing which of the two unknowns gave how much, in terms of percentage, to the total amount of the equation of 3 variables.
Of course, astronomers and astrophysicists have much more complex and knowledge of how to deal with unknowns; but still, ultimately, if there are 3 variables and ONLY ONE IS KNOWN, you can't really tell me the TWO UNKNOWNS are also known in terms of their magnitude, amount, speed, or size... it doesn't matter what kind of clever mathematical contraption you use...
Anyway, THOSE ARE THE "limitless possibilities" that are to be discovered and to be proven, NOT the primitive and/or childish nonsense about FICTIONAL things, characters, things, existences, etc., as articulated by ignorant and/or religious people and their "holy" or "sacred" books --- which are really nothing more than books and stories compiled from Stone, Iron, and Bronze age folklore, myths, and oral stories ... of and about unknown things that moved in the dark, appeared in the skies, shook the ground, plagued the villages or tribes, miracles, deep thoughts that "science can't disprove," etc.
yag...@gmail.com
Mar 2, 2015, 3:49:31 PM3/2/15
to
"since they don't exist..they don't need proof"...
this is exactly why i asked you about moral issues...honestly, how is "moral" issue any different from "dragons: the belief of wisdom, god: the belief of love, righteousness, etc"??? you seem to value "moral" issue; but yet, you don't seem to value things that doens't exist--both entities do not exist for me, just so you nknow. more importantly, the "concept/provability" of both "moral issues" and "gods" seem to be the same(another example is...say love). in essence, does it matter to anyone if the golden rule is applied or not? does the essence of the golden rule exist? what about love?
if you truly belief that "gods, demons, ect" do not exist...then why even consider "moral" issue an educatoin (something that may/maynot benefit people if learned or used)? also note that i am not disagreeing with you...i'm just questioning the way you think. the "differentialtion" of the two are not clear except the part where you said "irrevelent". on the contrary, it is very revelent.
the reason why i keep on bashing the christians is that they seem to basterdize other relgions..but failed to see the stupidity of their own religion. your reasoning seem to fall into this same path. as far as i know, gods, satan, love, moral values, are all the same...they all don't exist...
so then, why do you seem to value one and not the other?
yh
this is exactly why i asked you about moral issues...honestly, how is "moral" issue any different from "dragons: the belief of wisdom, god: the belief of love, righteousness, etc"??? you seem to value "moral" issue; but yet, you don't seem to value things that doens't exist--both entities do not exist for me, just so you nknow. more importantly, the "concept/provability" of both "moral issues" and "gods" seem to be the same(another example is...say love). in essence, does it matter to anyone if the golden rule is applied or not? does the essence of the golden rule exist? what about love?
if you truly belief that "gods, demons, ect" do not exist...then why even consider "moral" issue an educatoin (something that may/maynot benefit people if learned or used)? also note that i am not disagreeing with you...i'm just questioning the way you think. the "differentialtion" of the two are not clear except the part where you said "irrevelent". on the contrary, it is very revelent.
the reason why i keep on bashing the christians is that they seem to basterdize other relgions..but failed to see the stupidity of their own religion. your reasoning seem to fall into this same path. as far as i know, gods, satan, love, moral values, are all the same...they all don't exist...
so then, why do you seem to value one and not the other?
yh
yag...@gmail.com
Mar 2, 2015, 4:23:18 PM3/2/15
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BY THE WAY...
"It is NOT that Science "can't" explain them "because they are beyond science and are too deep." No! Science "can't" explain them because they are fairy tale nonsense."
i don't think this is an intelligent thought. most of the time, science can't explain it because they can't...not UNTIL someone could...if and when someone could... then of course, everything can be explained "clearly" and "scientifically."
examples...werewolf....well, not the typical werewolf you seen in tv...but say hypertrichosis--excessive hair. or say...epidermodysplasia verruciformis--it causes rare genetic skin disorder...such as tough, barklike warts...pinnochio had it...so you see, not all "doesn't exist" is true. and yes, 100 years ago, science "laughed" at these claims...saying "it doens't exist"...
the main intention of my quetion is this. everyone knows that certain practices are backward..no need to remind anyone of it. well, maybe for the truly confused ones. but, we all know that tibneeg tuag ces, kawg mus 6 feet under xwb...that's a a fact. whatever happens after life is not known...however, vim yog txoj kev ntseeg, SIMILAR TO HAVING GOOD MORAL VALUES and keeping and practicing these moral valuse not knowing how it woudl or would not benefit us in anyway...we keep on practicing it...and believing in it.
yh
"It is NOT that Science "can't" explain them "because they are beyond science and are too deep." No! Science "can't" explain them because they are fairy tale nonsense."
examples...werewolf....well, not the typical werewolf you seen in tv...but say hypertrichosis--excessive hair. or say...epidermodysplasia verruciformis--it causes rare genetic skin disorder...such as tough, barklike warts...pinnochio had it...so you see, not all "doesn't exist" is true. and yes, 100 years ago, science "laughed" at these claims...saying "it doens't exist"...
the main intention of my quetion is this. everyone knows that certain practices are backward..no need to remind anyone of it. well, maybe for the truly confused ones. but, we all know that tibneeg tuag ces, kawg mus 6 feet under xwb...that's a a fact. whatever happens after life is not known...however, vim yog txoj kev ntseeg, SIMILAR TO HAVING GOOD MORAL VALUES and keeping and practicing these moral valuse not knowing how it woudl or would not benefit us in anyway...we keep on practicing it...and believing in it.
yh
HenryDavidT
Mar 3, 2015, 3:23:24 AM3/3/15
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On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 3:23:18 PM UTC-6, yag...@gmail.com wrote:
> BY THE WAY...
>
> "It is NOT that Science "can't" explain them "because they are beyond science and are too deep." No! Science "can't" explain them because they are fairy tale nonsense."
>
> i don't think this is an intelligent thought. most of the time, science can't explain it because they can't...not UNTIL someone could...if and when someone could... then of course, everything can be explained "clearly" and "scientifically."
Dude, you failed to understand some of the subtler things Sean Carroll of Caltech said. And it SHOWS in the statements below here... on "werewolf."
> BY THE WAY...
>
> "It is NOT that Science "can't" explain them "because they are beyond science and are too deep." No! Science "can't" explain them because they are fairy tale nonsense."
>
> i don't think this is an intelligent thought. most of the time, science can't explain it because they can't...not UNTIL someone could...if and when someone could... then of course, everything can be explained "clearly" and "scientifically."
What the hell does a certain "odd" genotypic MUTATION (or set if mutations) that cause a certain phenotypic expressions (physical traits like excessive hair growth, or no hair growth, etc), in an organism, having any thing to do with any thing?
That's molecular science and genetics.
We may not know EVERY DETAIL of how molecular science and genetics work, right now... But, as Sean Corroll said, WE KNOW 100% they are the work and actions of ATOMS and MOLECULES expressed in the various complicated mutations and permutations, within a certain regime (in the body or an organism).
Again, whether we understand their exact MECHANICS or not, we KNOW they have NOTHING TO DO with Poj Ntxoog, Allah, Jesus, Elves, Satan, the Virgin Mary, Ntxwg Nyug, Vaj Tswv, Fairies, Pink Unicorns, Ancestor spirits, Evil spirits, Mohammed, Shiva, Brahma, Osiris, Isis, Ngiri-Nguri, and all these "deep thoughts" you people spend most of your life imagining, thinking, and *studying*...
SCIENCE WILL NOT, some day, find that:
Oh, No, IT TURNED OUT, finally, after many thousands of years of carefully studies and analyses...
... That it is ACTUALLY really......Yes Xus... or Poj Ntxoog.... or the Virgin Mary (when she doesn't hear your appeals to her or your praises),.... or Jesus and his DAD, God, and his uncle, Allah,... or Lucifer or Evil Spirits,.... or Ancestors hungry for gifts which never offered in yearly rituals....or it's the lack of the hiring or deployment or employment of the REAL Txiv Neeb or Clerics or preachers WHO COULD TRAVEL TO OTHER WORLDS, through holy chants and prayers, through self-induced hallucinatory rituals and acts.... THAT ARE THE CAUSES, or the *explainers*, or the *authors* OF things, events, conditions like sickness and health... OF the lack of progress in the deeper understanding in QUANTUM MECHANICS, HIGGS, or the more exotic stuff like "dark matter" and "dark energy", etc.
You understand or see the difference?
I doubt it.
yag...@gmail.com
Mar 3, 2015, 9:01:38 AM3/3/15
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No i didnt misunderstand anything. If u read what i said carefully u would have noticed that i said..."not like werewolf on tv". What i meant was that before science discovered or proved there is such a mutation...if a person were to disribe a creature of wolLf like, hairy man runny around....without proof, similar to u, science would have call it lalaland imagination Just as u did n have been doing.
yag...@gmail.com
Mar 3, 2015, 9:19:13 AM3/3/15
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As for my main point... I even spelled out for yuo Why i wrote u in the first place ..bbut as u said, i doubt u understood the a b connectionit that i made Or trying to make. In othe word u r refusing to c the stupidity of accepting that there is love in the world. Or...and...u r also ingoring to explain why u need to b morally competent...because as u said these r just imagination thoughts.
So far your mental skills and argument doesnt make sense at all...NOTE THAT I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE LALALAND YAWMSAUB....and if u cant grasp the meaning of what im saying...then let me spell it out to the less intelligent...YOU R A HYPOCRITICAL MORON BELIEVING IN unicorn but ignoring santa clause.
Do u know what im saying..?
I doubt it...
Yh
So far your mental skills and argument doesnt make sense at all...NOTE THAT I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE LALALAND YAWMSAUB....and if u cant grasp the meaning of what im saying...then let me spell it out to the less intelligent...YOU R A HYPOCRITICAL MORON BELIEVING IN unicorn but ignoring santa clause.
Do u know what im saying..?
I doubt it...
Yh
HenryDavidT
Mar 3, 2015, 2:25:34 PM3/3/15
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Sorry, dude, I have no idea what you're babbling about. Just watch the video.
Comment on the VIDEO, if you understand it. If not, then let it go, since it won't make any difference to you.
However, if you have problem understanding what INTELLIGENT people like Sean Carroll and Steven Novella said --- NOT what delusional people like Abner and the old psychiatrist who specialized in "Journeys of people to the other worlds" guy said, because you yourself seem to be in that delusional camp --- then ask and I or someone else who is intelligent, here in SCH, will try to explain...
But don't comment on me, on yourself, or on your deep or holy or divine or sacred Shamanic/Yaweh/Jesus/Allah/God/Khawv Koob/Pink Unicorn/Poj Ntxoog and other similar Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-derived rituals and chants and thoughts.
The subject matter, the video, really, is NOT about me or you or people who have holy, divine, or sacred knowledge about Heaven, Hell, Elves, Fairies, Satan, Poj Ntxoog, Evil Spirits, etc.
Comment on the VIDEO, if you understand it. If not, then let it go, since it won't make any difference to you.
However, if you have problem understanding what INTELLIGENT people like Sean Carroll and Steven Novella said --- NOT what delusional people like Abner and the old psychiatrist who specialized in "Journeys of people to the other worlds" guy said, because you yourself seem to be in that delusional camp --- then ask and I or someone else who is intelligent, here in SCH, will try to explain...
But don't comment on me, on yourself, or on your deep or holy or divine or sacred Shamanic/Yaweh/Jesus/Allah/God/Khawv Koob/Pink Unicorn/Poj Ntxoog and other similar Stone, Iron, and Bronze age-derived rituals and chants and thoughts.
The subject matter, the video, really, is NOT about me or you or people who have holy, divine, or sacred knowledge about Heaven, Hell, Elves, Fairies, Satan, Poj Ntxoog, Evil Spirits, etc.
yag...@gmail.com
Mar 3, 2015, 2:49:06 PM3/3/15
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of course you don't knwo what i'm talking about, which is why you're so jumpy....but, isn't funny how people tend to see the things they want to see...and completely ignore what the question (point) is?? i already told you in my original post that i am not disagreeing with you.
believing or not believing in gods/demon/pogyawg is not what i was talking about or asking. i said, i was interested in your thought process...in essence, i wanted to see how consistent you are in your thoughts, which was why i asked about "moral" and "love" (which by the way, you used "education" as the answer...similar to backward thinking of pagan rituals...christians also use the name of god to kill because of "moral issues"...etc.)
it is stupidly amazing for you to completely failed to understand the fact that a (before science proved it or no about mutation) "hairy man, looking like a wolf, running in the forest" does exists (an outcast of humnanity due to rare mutation). however, from what you said (and from your thought process so far), these things are just just "lalaland" hallucination cuz they dont' exist (remember...I'M TALKING ABOUT BEFORE THESE THINGS WERE DISCOVERED). things like this,my friend is why i am intersted in your thought process. you yourself said that "science can't prove it cuz it doesn't exist".. the fact is, before science knows about mutation, a hairy wild man does exist.
in addition, to be scientifically true, as you said in the past, it must be true in every test, situation, etc...(or to that extent). well, yes, it may be true that gods/demons/etc are lalaland craps cuz they dont' exist. my insertion to your point was "moral/love, etc" also falls into the same lalaland crap because science can't really do anything with it...the results will always be different per different person..but yet, you seem to indicate that "moral issues and/or things like love" do exist...
do you not see the inconsistency of your brain? or am i confusing you more dude?
yh
believing or not believing in gods/demon/pogyawg is not what i was talking about or asking. i said, i was interested in your thought process...in essence, i wanted to see how consistent you are in your thoughts, which was why i asked about "moral" and "love" (which by the way, you used "education" as the answer...similar to backward thinking of pagan rituals...christians also use the name of god to kill because of "moral issues"...etc.)
it is stupidly amazing for you to completely failed to understand the fact that a (before science proved it or no about mutation) "hairy man, looking like a wolf, running in the forest" does exists (an outcast of humnanity due to rare mutation). however, from what you said (and from your thought process so far), these things are just just "lalaland" hallucination cuz they dont' exist (remember...I'M TALKING ABOUT BEFORE THESE THINGS WERE DISCOVERED). things like this,my friend is why i am intersted in your thought process. you yourself said that "science can't prove it cuz it doesn't exist".. the fact is, before science knows about mutation, a hairy wild man does exist.
in addition, to be scientifically true, as you said in the past, it must be true in every test, situation, etc...(or to that extent). well, yes, it may be true that gods/demons/etc are lalaland craps cuz they dont' exist. my insertion to your point was "moral/love, etc" also falls into the same lalaland crap because science can't really do anything with it...the results will always be different per different person..but yet, you seem to indicate that "moral issues and/or things like love" do exist...
do you not see the inconsistency of your brain? or am i confusing you more dude?
yh
HenryDavidT
Mar 26, 2015, 1:52:30 AM3/26/15
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On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 7:14:37 AM UTC-6, HenryDavidT wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0YtL5eiBYw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40eiycH077A
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0YtL5eiBYw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40eiycH077A
AEON
Mar 26, 2015, 2:38:16 AM3/26/15
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On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 12:52:30 AM UTC-5, HenryDavidT wrote:
> On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 7:14:37 AM UTC-6, HenryDavidT wrote:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0YtL5eiBYw
DEAD NEVER THE FINAL in term of that STUPID SPIRIT. it keeps go on REPEATING that REBORN PROCESSES 4EVER. UNTIL it REACH IT'S DUMB GOALS.MY DUMB GOAL IS TO "TSA HAIV 6 HMOOB. that stooge DUMB SPIRIT thinks he can do it.HE KEEPS PUSHING me BODY to do it. I'M ABOUT TO SURRENDER because I SEE NOT HIS STEPS to do it. ONE OF THESE DAY I MIGHT NEED to point my 12G to my LEFT EAR and use my TOE TO PUSH THAT LITTLE TONGUE. that shoud ELIMINATE MY ENEMIES INSTANTLY AND VIOLA I WIN! I HATE HIM. BYE2 BECAUSE HE KEEPS E ODY ILL TOO OFTEN and HE FEELS NO PAIN EZ RIGHT? PHYSICAL ME BODY getS MAX UNBEARABLE PAIN.I SCREAM & CRY TOO OFTEN. HE HEAR ME BUT DON'T HEAR HIM. I KEEP ASKING 4 $ POWERBAL JACKPOT. HE DIDN'T HELP ME.. I ONLY GET MORE PAIN. HAHAHA SNIFF ;D DEAD NEVER FINAL.
> On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 7:14:37 AM UTC-6, HenryDavidT wrote:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0YtL5eiBYw
HenryDavidT
Mar 31, 2015, 1:53:49 PM3/31/15
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On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 12:52:30 AM UTC-5, HenryDavidT wrote:
One of the more thoughtful lectures on thinking, how we think, the things we think about, and why a certain delusions --- about specialnesss, holiness, divinity, magic, sacred knowledge, etc --- are confused, purposefully or accidentally, as really "deep thinking, so deep, science still has not discovered the connection" (but apparently preachers, through holy books and divine commandments, and shaman, through sitting and jumping and chattering secretive and sacred rituals and rites, HAVE ...)
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