Dual citizenship vs. Permanent residence & Lao to rerturn to grow opium???

DownUnder

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Nov 15, 2011, 9:57:18 AM11/15/11

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Hi all,

Just 2 weeks ago, I had a chance to met with a group of Phouthene
(headecd by the Vice President Dr Saysomphone Phoumvihane) who were
touring Oz as Official guest of OZ.

I had a chance to have a chat with Dr Saysomphone and other Phoutene -
un-officially - on many issues... but (i) the Citizenship Bill AND
(ii) my suggestion that Laos to re-consider to return to grow opium
again certainly caught their attentions.

On the Citizhenship Bill...
I had a good chat with one Phouthene who is a member of the committee
to look at this Bill. It seems to me, as I understand from this
infomal chart, that Parliament is not yet committed to any shape of
form of that Bill yet... (although it is the main interest & talk by
most Phouthene). From thta chat, it is clear to me that there seems to
be some confusions and major misunderstanding about the case of Dual
Citizenship vs. Permanent Residency(PR). I spent quite some time to
outline the DIFFERENCE between the two policies and also the CONS &
PROS of each one of them, using the OZ case (Oz has both PR & Dual
Citzenship) as the example.

I made it clear that DUAL CITIZENSHIP (D-C) may be a WIN for Laos
(politically) but a LOSS for all the Laonork in the USA!...and those
Laonork who live in other countries with no D-C and... here we talk
about some 500,000 Laonork in the USA! - with the largest brain bank
and fattest pockets...IF Laos was to adopt Dual Citizhenship, it would
be the second grestest loss for Laos (1st loss in the event of 1975...
the brain drain & brain loss). With D-C, Loas has NOTHING to gain at
this stage, as I see it...in my humble opinion.

I SUGGESTED to that Phouthene that if Laos is serious about this
POLICY.... then, Laos should consider ONLY PERMANENT RESIDENCY... at
this stage. Why?? Because.. Permanent resident means that that
person with PR in Laos would have ALL the right and priviledge as any
Lao citizen, including land ownership (as the Laonork want at this
stage) BUT with two (2) EXCEPTIONS - No voting right & No right to
hold public office (as the LPDR wants)... so Laos has nothing to fear
that those PR people would start interferring with the Lao
politics! /.

On the final; analysis, Only PR policy is the easiest policy for Laos
to adopt and to INPLIMENT.... and I stress that Permanent Residency is
the only WIN-WIN policy for Laos AND for Laonorks at the same time.
So... why hesitate this win-win policy??

On the OPIUM ISSUE....
On the issue of Laos should re-consider to return to grow opium...
that certainly caught the attentions of those Phouthene when I told
that Oz grow 40% of the world opium for pharmaceutical purpose...about
Oz genetically engeneered poppy plant that produce the opium that
cannot be turn into heroine! but only pricy pharmaceutical products!!!
(those Lao Phouthene & Lao Officials did NOT know that Oz grow
opium!!!!)...
I was asked to provide ALL the detail of the Oz opium growing industry
for the Lao Phouthene to consider.

Well... we just have to wait & see... if anything come out from our
chat in Canberra with those Lao Phoutene.

du

On Nov 15, 3:37 pm, NTY <nottooyou...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have heard some rumor that the Lpdr's government is still mulling
> over the dual citizenship policy for Laonorks...If this is the case,
> it would be a win-win situation for all Laotians!
>
> Government insiders, ຍາທະນູໄຊ ແລະທ່ານອື່ນໆ, please share info!

All4One

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Nov 15, 2011, 10:26:37 AM11/15/11

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Dr. Pao,

Mind explaning to us as to why you feel implementing a DC to Laonorks
would be a DISADVANTAGE to the LPDR? Have there been studies of
countries where duel citizenship have been issued and the result was
devastating? I want to see such research if any. Ua tsaug.

On the issue of reverting back to growing opium for medical purposes.
Though it's easier say than done....I have yet to read how the LPDR
would put in place a system of CKECK AND BALANCE for the opium
cultivation? I see corruption and drug abuses in the making if the
LPDR consider your advice? I don;t bleieve LAOS have the right human
resources/technology YET to control such potentially dangerous medical
product.

Jim

Message has been deleted

yi...@charter.net

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Nov 15, 2011, 11:04:25 AM11/15/11

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Dr. Pao---Only good talking... How can the "rubber stamp" National
Assembly make that happen when everything has to be coming from the
ruling Central Committee/Politburo? Can a Phouthen introduce a bill
about that? I dont' think so...

tou

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Nov 15, 2011, 11:35:09 AM11/15/11

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Dr. OZ
What about both for laonor who wish to choose from one of them either
be PR or DC, we all are same blood it just polictically classify us as
laonor
b/c we abandand our motherland once. You did a good point.

l...@laoclub.zzn.com

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Nov 15, 2011, 12:17:07 PM11/15/11

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interesting talk folks!

idonotknow

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Nov 15, 2011, 1:41:09 PM11/15/11

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it can be DC or PR i hate to run into the jungle for another fight. anyone may go but not me for sure. for i know that the % of having to run for the un-civilized LPDR pressure to dead instead of kill with a gun would drive all of those people into unbearable madness. go have another run as refugee and have fun... but never me again.

Her Lao

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Nov 15, 2011, 4:58:40 PM11/15/11

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On Nov 15, 9:26 am, All4One <jim_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dr. Pao,
>
> Mind explaning to us as to why you feel implementing a DC to Laonorks
> would be a DISADVANTAGE to the LPDR?

** Doctor Pao said just the OPPOSITE: that a dual citizenship (DC)
would be a big disadvantage to a Laonork in the USA who is a citizen,
NATURALLY, or who has become a US citizen via "naturalization" but it
MAY BE a big plus to Laos since Laos would gain, IN THEORY, some
brains back from the West, because expatriots and their descendants
are returning to live in Laos, to help rebuild it. In theory.

Quote from Dr. Pao: ".... I made it clear that DUAL CITIZENSHIP (D-C)

may be a WIN for Laos
(politically) but a LOSS for all the Laonork in the USA!..."

** If I understood Dr. Pao correctly, I think he suggested that the
PROCESS by which a person, a Laonork, would have to go through ---
whether ACTIVELY or otherwise --- would, ultimately, render his US
citizenship in JEOPARDY. And THAT, Dr. Pao's argument goes, is a
DISADVANTAGE to the Laonork because his US citizenship guarantees him
much more (both RESPONSIBILITY AND RIGHTS) than his Lao citizenship,
if the latter's gain must come at the former loss...

** That's why I said "actively or otherwise." Why would I or any one
born in Laos who has been "naturalized" a US citizen RENOUNCE my US
citizenship just to be "accepted" back in Laos as a full citizen? It
doesn't make sense, EVEN if doable.

** Now, on what I termed "in theory" (Laos may benefit, according to
an aspect of Dr. Pao's implicit argument): in THEORY Laos could gain
some tiny shreds of "brains" because as someone who has grown up in
the West and has gone to a good school, if I were to returned to Laos
--- that's a SUBJUNCTIVE; it's not going to happen --- I MAY BE able
to teach a few kids, if I were to teach middle or high school, some
basic English, algebra, geometry, chemistry, biology, trigonometry,
calculus, history, what-not...

** In theory.

** Because, in PRACTICE, I may turn out to be so obnoxious, as I
usually am --- once granted a Lao citizenship --- I do nothing but sit
on my butts and accuse Laos "correct leadership," day and night, of
being corrupt, evil, dictatorial, unfit to rule, etc, giving them so
much headaches, hurting them so much they cry everyday they go to work
in Vientiane....because I am so affective in my false accusation and
they just can't do anything about me (which, of course, is FANTASY
ISLAND: aint' gonna happen)..... Now, you can see why Dr. Pao's
argument aint' so hot!

** That is to say, Dual Citizenship doesn't necessarily benefit either
party.... If the act is based on a POLITICAL CALCULUS, as Dr. Pao
argued... or has put forth... when he talked to the Lao PDR folks who
visited Australia...

** Anyway.... The fact of the matter is, Dual Citizenship is NOT that
clear-cut, in some case; and it is VERY CLEAR CUT in other cases.
E.g: ---- If the two countries involved are like Australia and the USA
and the PERSONS involved are like, say, Australia's top calibre
naturally born citizens like Terence Tao (the genius mathematician) or
Peter Singer (one of our era's greatest ethicists and moral
philosophers).... then NEITHER the USA nor Australia would say
anything.... whether Singer and Tao wanted both citizenships or just
one, or just the other.

** People like Tao and Singer could pretty much do whatever they want,
live wherever they want (USA, England, Switzerland, China, yes, even
China, Germany, Australia, Argentina, Mexico).... because of their
extraordinary talents, NO country would make any overt demand on WHAT
citizenship they MUST pledge allegiance to, to the exlusion of the
others.... so on and so forth, ad nauseam.... But even with two
equally educated societies like the USA and Australia, FOR ORDINARY
CITIZENS, it's NOT that easy. Dr. Pao can't just sassy over to the
USA and says he wants to live here and become a USA citizen, SIMPLY
because he feels like it... Nor would it be equally clever if I WERE
to make the same move and go over to Australia...

** But with countries of UNEQUAL technological, democratization, and/
or economic statuses.... like between Laos and the USA.... it matters
very much to A PERSON who is concerned; 'tis particularly true if the
citizen is just an ordinary person like any one of us.... In THIS
CASE, this scenario, and let's go back to MY OWN situation: I was
born in Laos and was a natural born citizen of Laos (let's assume
that's true, for theoretical discussions here).... but since I had
left the country and had FORMALLY RENOUNCED my naturally-born-Lao
citizen, when I pledged myself to the US Constitution.... IF TO GET
BACK MY LAOS CITIZENSHIP I must TURN AROUND dn RENOUNCE my
"naturalized" USA citizeship... it would BE BAD for me, yes....

** On the other hand, now... If Laos attitude is: We require NO
FORMAL renounciation of your US citizenship; we MERELY require that
you recommit yourself, naturally, conscientiously, to UPHOLD your
natural born Lao citizenship, which you've NEVER LOST, no matter what
you had to say in a foreign country in order to gain THEIR
CITIZENSHIP.... then, yes, the USA would NOT have any problem, either.

** In short, if a LESS POWERFUL (not as equal to the USA) country does
NOT contest a person's US citizenship, and IS WILLING TO PLAY SECOND
FIDDLE to the USA.... with the objective of MERELY to share a
personhood with the USA --- by granting to the said person, formally,
all the rights enjoyed by citizens there (like Laos... even if the
person is STILL a US citizen) --- then, again, the USA won't have any
active problem....

** Because that's a STEALTH, one-way citizenship claim FROM LAOS'
part, on behalf of the PERSON whom Laos wants to also claim as being a
natural part of it..... and it is WILLING and ABLE to allow the big
shot USA to have PRECEDENCE over the person and it is ONLY making
accommodations AND NO DEMANDS from its part, for itself.... Instead,
Laos, again, is only ASKING that the person do whatever he/she thinks
would bring good things to Laos, on balance...

** However, for a communist country STILL-AS-PARANOID ass Laos Lao
PDR, I doubt the "correct leadership" would ever permit such a
situation to happen, or even just seriously think about it.... And,
again with the same breath, for any person with at least 2-working
brain cells, living here in the US with US citizenship to want to
renounce his/her US citizenship IN ORDER to "regain" his/her Lao
citizenship.... it's lunacy.

** Why do that when you could simply visit Laos, for a few days or
weeks or months... and then return "home" to the US or Australia or
Europe?, places where you and your kids and grandkids have access to
so much in society?, from the intangibles "freedom and rights".... to
tangibles like schooling, education, work opportunity, civil and penal
and political rights, etc.

>
> Jim

cwjmem

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Nov 15, 2011, 5:54:34 PM11/15/11

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Laophuan is smiling. If that approves, LP will be the first one to
GROW OPIUM for LPDR chao nai to comsume, bravo, bravo!!!!

fajkhaum

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Nov 15, 2011, 7:57:24 PM11/15/11

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On Nov 15, 6:57 am, DownUnder <drpao...@dex.hmoob.net> wrote:

> > Government insiders, ຍາທະນູໄຊ ແລະທ່ານອື່ນໆ, please share info!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dr Pao,

Yog kuv yog koj mas kuv yuav tsi propose ib yam dab tsi rau cov
Nploojtsawb no li. Qhov zoo mas peb nrhiav ib txoj hauv kev muab lawv
tshem tawm kom du lug. Thaum muab lawv tshem tawm tag lawm, peb mam
txhim kho tshiab kom haum txoj kev ntshaw ntawm txhua haiv neeg nyob
hauv peb lub tebchaws.

Pab Nploojtsawb no yog tib pab neeg corruption xwb tsi txhob nkim lub
sijhawm mus muab lub zoo tswvyim pab lawv. Unless yog xav rov mus
nrog lawv coj medal thiab xwb laiv.

John

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Nov 15, 2011, 8:23:38 PM11/15/11

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> nrog lawv coj medal thiab xwb laiv.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Cas nej txhua tus yuav tsis muaj lub zeem muag thiab pom deb li Dr.
Pov li. Nej txhua tus phij tseem muaj lub siab chim, siab nraim,
thiab pom ze ze xwb.

Dr. Pov xav kom qhib tau blogliab lub siab, kom blog muaj txoj kev
ntseeg siab rau nej cov tub txawj-ntxhais ntse, kom muaj kev lagluam,
kom Lao nork muaj txoj kev mus los yoojyij, kom nej cov xav xav mus ua
lag luam los kom muaj kev mus tau zoo. He is trying to open the door
of friendship, trust, business opportunity for Lao Nork and Lao Nai so
that Laos can be liked Indonesian and other prosperity SE ASian
nations. Dr. Pov sees beyond today and tomorrow but Laos in the next
many decades to come.

I think he had the right idea and proposed the right solution, the
question is whether Laos will take it now. Slowly his idea will be
debated and hopefully, slowly, Laos will consider.

JY

DownUnder

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Nov 16, 2011, 7:13:39 AM11/16/11

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Hi Jim,

Yeah... I did say that "DC would be a DISADVANTAGE to the LPDR" - I
mean to refer to specifically to the Laonork in the USA.... some
500,000 Laonork!. It is DISADVANTAGE to the LPDR because the USA does
not has Dual Citizhenzhip.... So, let's say.. Mr. Jim America, a
Laonork in America with a US citizhen. If Jim APPLY for DC with Laos
(in the case that if Laos has DC), then the minute Jim granted a Lao
citizhenship, he has to LOOSE his US citizhen. Based on my
observation, the bulk of the US Laonork would NOT want to loose his/
her US citizhenship!!! Hence, if Laos impiment DC, it is NO different
as Laos IS NOW>. AS we speak, any one can apply for a Lao
citizhenship... and I have heard that few people have been granted -
but the number was in the two figure mark.

The simplest explaination is simply to ASK..."How many Laonork with US
citizhen would throw away his.her US citizhenship for a Lao
citizhen???? This is the disadvantage that I talked about.

NB...NB>>> There is ONE loop hole that a Laonork can have a Lao
citizhenship AND KEEP his/her US citizhen... IF and only WHEN Laos
OFFER/GIVEN/Handed a Lao citizhenship to a US Laonork (without the US
Laonork applying for it... nb. without applying for it). In this
SPECIAL case, that person can have a Lao citizhen AND a US citizhen
(i.e. NOT loosing his/her US citizhen). Jim... look around, HOW MANY
Laonork people in the US that Laos would just be happily HANDED a Lao
citizhen?

Hope that this explain this disadvantage of Loas implimenting DC.

Talking generally, DC is a great thing... for only those countries
that have DC, eg. OZ. If Laod wanted to impliment DC, Laos would have
to negotiate and sign an agreement on numerous issues with every
countries that have DC. Would Laos has the capacity to get Dc off the
ground???

More later/..

du

NTY

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Nov 16, 2011, 8:37:57 AM11/16/11

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Nah...Laophuan will raise Gecko's instead!

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — Claims that a nocturnal Asian lizard can
be used to help treat the HIV virus have led to a sharp boom in
smuggling of the reptile, putting it at risk, a conservation group
said Tuesday.

Demand for the Tokay Gecko has skyrocketed in recent years after
online blogs, newspaper articles and wildlife traders extolled the
consumption of the lizard's tongue and internal organs as a miracle
cure for HIV, TRAFFIC Southeast Asia said in a report.

TRAFFIC said such claims were unfounded and "indicative of an
elaborate hoax." The Philippines' government in July also warned that
using geckos to treat AIDS and impotence may put patients at risk.

"TRAFFIC is alarmed at the massive increase in trade of these geckos.
If the trade continues to mushroom, it could take years to repair the
damage currently being inflicted on gecko populations," said Chris
R.Shepherd, TRAFFIC's regional deputy director.

The geckos, popular as pets in Asia, have long been used as
traditional medicine for illnesses such as diabetes, asthma, skin
disease and cancer, the report said. Their carcasses are dried up and
ground into powder for consumption. In some parts of Asia, Tokay wine
or whisky is consumed to boost energy.

The Tokay Gecko, which has distinct orange-spotted, blue-grey skin,
can grow up to 15.7 inches (40 centimeters) in length. The reptiles
feed on insects and worms, helping to regulate pests and maintain the
ecosystem.

TRAFFIC said more than eight and a half tons of dried geckos were
legally imported into the United States between 1998 and 2002 for use
in traditional medicine. Huge numbers are traded within Asia and it
said Malaysia has emerged as a key hub to meet demand, especially in
China.

It said 1,000 geckos believed headed for Malaysia were recently seized
in Cambodia, while a couple have been detained for trying to smuggle
nearly a $1 million worth of lizards from Thailand to Malaysia.
Customs officers in Indonesia's Java island also recently foiled a bid
to smuggle dried Tokay Geckos bound for Hong Kong and China using
expired permits.

Shepherd said the Tokay Gecko remained poorly protected by national
legislation and called for the lizard to be protected under CITES, the
international convention on endangered species, before it becomes
extinct.

Or click: http://news.yahoo.com/asian-gecko-risk-over-claims-cure-aids-0636433

DownUnder

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Nov 16, 2011, 10:05:55 AM11/16/11

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Technically... you can only have one... not both.
NB>>> (1) Every one can be a PR.
(2) Not all can have a DC... DC is only OK IF the country that you
are now living & be a citizhen already has a DC policy...The USA does
NOT have DC policy like Oz. So, if you are a US citizen, you can e a
PR in Laos and still maintain your US citizhen. But if you get a Lao
citizen... then,,, say goodbye to your US citizen!!!( because USA does
NOT have DC law)..... UNLESS you are one of those whose Laos just
handed you a Lao citizen (as I said earlier.. about the ONE
exception)).

du

NTY

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Nov 16, 2011, 10:38:04 AM11/16/11

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Dr. Pao, you might be wrong on the US dual citizenship, please see:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Her Lao

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Nov 16, 2011, 11:45:59 AM11/16/11

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On Nov 16, 9:38 am, NTY <nottooyou...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dr. Pao, you might be wrong on the US dual citizenship, please see:
>
> http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
>
> On Nov 16, 10:05 pm, DownUnder <drpaosay...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

As I tried to explain, it depends on MANY factors:

I -- the two involved countries (USA and whatever other country);
II -- how important the persons involved are, to those two countries
(with the USA citizenship having priority);
III -- whether the OTHER country (not the USA) is willing to play
second fiddle to the USA;

I alluded to this & so did Dr. Pao, each in different ways: if
communist Laos WERE willing to throw out Lao citienship to Laonork, AS
A BLANKET (covering all Lao expatriots and their descendants), and
MAKE NO DEMANDS on the USA, particularly on PENAL issues (say, some
Laonork of USA who's been doing something in Laos "against the law"
and is NOW BACK in the USA and Laos is demanding that HE be returned
to Laos to be charged as a Lao LAW CITIZEN.... then it WOULD BE A
PROBLEM because the USA won't allow Laos to come to the USA to extract
that person; nor would the USA send one of its citizens to Laos to be
charged as a Lao citizen, when HE IS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN...

Laos MAY NOT charge that person, in Laos, as a Lao citizen,
either, since that would NOT sit well with the USA; Laos MAY CHARGE
that person as ANY OTHER VISITOR who has violated Laos internal law,
but not as a Lao citizen (if that person, again, is [already] a US
citizen)....

This THEORETICAL SCENARIO, as you can see, is one of those
factors as to why the USA will NOT be willing to allow its citizens to
apply for another country's citizenship. AND EVEN IF some country,
Laos or another, SHOULD make their citizenship as a "blanket" or
"retro" application of some type.... to all their expatriots and their
descendants... THAT country MUST NOT, then, argue that it now has
EQUAL CLAIMS to the concerned American citizens, in cases where the
involved persons are involved in PENAL issues (in competing interest
with/against the USA)...

As I see it, NO COUNTRY would be willing to be THAT subservient
to another, even a very poor country like Laos; and in particular not
Laos, as it is a COMMUNIST/dictatorial country with one single
political party, NOT conducive enough to accommodate individuals who
have experience of OTHER societies with multiple political party
systems...

LAST,

IV -- EVEN if the DC is applied ONE PERSON AT A TIME (that is, that
Laos wanted to use it but it would SELECT, per individual cases, when
to use it).... the above observations would pretty much still apply,
where the USA IS CONCERNED.

This selective process would, IN THEORY, protect Laos a bit,
since it won't give "blanket" citizenship to just any expatriot or
their descendants; but, presumably, it would only give it to the GOOD
ONES, those "who won't be criminals against the correct leadership."

Well, you can see, if that's the case, then in addition to STILL
HAVING TO PLAY SECOND FIDDLE to the USA, Laos won't gain much
"brains," since those FEW individuals Laos would gain WOULD think and
do things very much the SAME ways those already in Laos: people who
never question the "correct leadership" but who, instead, think it is
the "best thing that ever happened to Laos" and everyone should just
bow to it and Laos would march foward --- politically, economically,
scientifically, what-not --- by big leaps and big bounds....

++++++++++++++++

For those who like to read around on these issues.... to gain a fuller
perspective on complex issues that may or may not have an easy "yes"
or "no" answer.... Remember, these and other readings are JUST THAT:
readings, views, based on specific cases and generalities that may or
may not apply to you, to Laos, or any other situation...

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html

YawgLaus

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Nov 16, 2011, 12:43:46 PM11/16/11

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Here it is the PR forms if you want to stay in LAOS

http://www.laoembassy.com/Permanent%20Residency%20Form.11.pdf

DownUnder

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Nov 16, 2011, 12:44:45 PM11/16/11

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NTY...try to read and UNDERSTAND what Her Lao & I are trying to
explain... We are saying exactly about the same thing but as we know
Her Lao is the master of words... what I say in one line, Her Lo would
needs one paragraph to say it!!!!.

As I said earlier, there is ONE loophole in the US law that a US
citizhen can acquire a second citizenship.... as Her LO has explained
so well and so clear that I could not say any thing else...

So... let me summarize...just two (2 points):

(1) USA does not have DC law... which mean that if you APPLY for
another citizen eg...a Lao citizen - and Laos gave it to you,... you
will LOOSE your US citizen and you CEASE to be an American citizen the
minute you receive your Lao citizen (that you APPLIED for).

BUT NB>>> NB>>> even the above is RIGHT (and the link you refer to is
also 100% RIGHT), (2) - Few US citizen are holding a second or even
a third citizenship (like a DC) without loosing your US citizen ( so
the US do have a special DC law).

This is possible BECAUSE, there is a loophole in the US law that IF
and WHEN a foreign country eg. Laos - decided to GIVE the Lao
citizenship to a Laonork person (who did NOT apply for it) because
of whatever reasons (as Her Lo said so eloquently) - so...in these
SPECIAL cases, the US citizen Laonork does NOT loose his/her US
citizen. Read Her Lo explanation...!!! Hence that Laonork does have a
DC!.

IF that is not confuse enough for you, try to place yourself as a Lao
Phouthene, sitting in the Lao Parliament and trying to explain that
to his colleagues...!!!!

du.

Vaj Ncuab

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Nov 18, 2011, 1:19:34 PM11/18/11

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> > du.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

There are some people only want DC for mianois that's all!
Nothing is better and more powerfull than US passport.
After a while of thinking I think US citizen are better than any
thing.

Her Lao

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Nov 18, 2011, 4:06:54 PM11/18/11

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Slightly intelligent people would NOT want to vote for ONE communist
leader, or another, so that's nothing important.

And since foreigners NEVER have any right to vote in LOCAL elections
(in countries they're visiting or living temporarily as visitors or
business people), so it is REDUNDANT to make any stipulation about
such being a "right no foreigners have" in the first place.

But on PROPERTIES exchanging hands in ECONOMIC TRANSACTIONS........

If Russians, English, French, Swiss, Koreans, or Chinese don't have
PROPERTY/OWNERSHIP right, when they buy a $500,000 or a $25M piece of
property (a real estate, a home, a mansion, etc.).... why the fuck
would they put that much money in America?

In the last 2-3 years a few Russians bought half a dozen or so $100M
mansions and other real estates and properties in America, because of
the economic stress and owners had to sell, to pay off debts....
Again, why would these millionaires and billionaires from RUSSIA buy
these American homes, businesses, and properties if they knew they
have no absoslute right to own it and sell it or do as they please
with private properties they put in hudnreds of thousands, or tens of
millions?

Same thing, in REVERSE:

If Americans, French, Canadians, Laonorks, Aussies, et al COULD buy a
$500,000 or a $25M piece of property, or real estate, IN LAOS... but
have NO assurances CEARLY stating in local, state, and FEDERAL laws
that they have ABSOLUTE ownership right to such a home, or a real
estate..... why the fuck would they go to Laos and "buy" a home or a
piece of real estate for $50,000 or $700,000 or $20M?

No one should have any problem if Laos LPDR or Mr. Kim of North Korea
says: This is OUR COUNTRY, a communist, and NO ONE, as a private
person, from OUTSIDE the country, could buy a home or a piece of
property, or real estate... because NO SUCH ALLOWANCES are allowed by
law.

No one should have any problem with that.

However, you can't have it both ways: we are a communist country and
we have prohibition on foreigners buying and owning homes and
lands..... BUT THEY CAN STILL BUY some, if they buy from the CORRECT
LEADERSHIP, the communist party itself, or other such entities... We
can work it out.....

.....But, at the same time, they must know, as foreigner, they have no
absolute guarantee on having ultimate ownership rights. After all, we
are a communist country and we don't operate like in England, America,
Australia, Switzerland.... where, if you can legall enter the country,
have legal papers AND THE MONEY, you can buy a home or a piece of
property and KNOW IT IS YOURS to do as you pleace....

The Castro brothers have just announced they are now ALLOWING
foreigners to BUY LANDS and HOMES, as private properties, the last
month or so, this year... And Cuba is, like Laos, a COMMUNIST country.

I know people running the various ministries, offices, and
"intellectual" spheres of the Communist Party in Laos --- including
the rank and file attaches "working in foreign countries on behalf of
the Lao People's Democratic Republic" in Laos --- aren't the sharpest
knives in the drawer.... but I didn't know they are THIS STUPID when
it comes to very elementary articles of law, statutes, rights,
commerce laws, ownership of properties, and transaction rights, etc.

"Absolute ownership rights" don't mean you could turn your property
into a brother, a drug center... or use it as a chemical dumping
ground! Properties and zonings, in ALL COUNTRIES, have LOCAL
ordinances, laws, etc. that every owners --- whether they are local or
from faraway -- MUST conform to and agree with, when they buy the
property.

That's not something new.

Rather, "absolute ownership rights" pertain to the right to use it, to
improve it (by applying to LOCAL/city/state ordinances, if you need to
make changes to your properties and such improvements MUST be okayed
first), to sell it, to sell it TO ANY ONE WHO HAS THE MONEY and who is
not a criminal or someone you know the authorities are SEEKING to
apprehend... etc, or to keep it FOREVER, or to PASS IT ON to family
members OR STRANGER... if you continue to pay local property taxes and
MAINTAIN the place according to LOCAL ordinances....

ALL that are parts of what's meant to have "ownership rights."

Again, the stupidity of people who worship 1930s communism is
astounding. Even if they have lived in OTHER parts of the world, have
lived other lives, have OWNED properties where they live among others,
elsewhere (in the USA and in Western Europe and Australia).... these
backward communist-wannabes revert back to adolescent children ....
when they talk about Laos .... once they're back in Laos.... they
PRETEND Laos, under the Lao People's Democratic Republic, is an ISLAND
ONTO ITSELF, unconnected to other humans and nations and WAYS of doing
things...

DownUnder

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Nov 18, 2011, 9:28:38 PM11/18/11

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Amen..!!!

du

DownUnder

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Nov 20, 2011, 8:23:33 AM11/20/11

ລາວພວນ ລາວຮັກຊາດ

unread,

Nov 22, 2011, 8:25:00 AM11/22/11

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Doctor the forms is for Laonorks USA only may be the LPDR policy open
door
for Lao in USA only, i did call back tracking my apps he told me that
too
many Lao in USA filling at the same time, that's why the processing
is slow...

ທ້າວໄຂ່ມືດ

unread,

Nov 22, 2011, 8:49:31 AM11/22/11

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You don't get it LP, Dr. Downunder knows more than the Ambassador.
Hehehe

ຜີ

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Nov 22, 2011, 1:26:34 PM11/22/11

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I agree that PR is more appropriate for us (Laonork/lao abroad) than
the DC. I don't think anybody with a right mind will apply for a DC
status if he/she is going to lose his/her hard earned citizenship of a
host country.

I'm not going to apply for a DC, though I don't mind if I have it
given to me without asking, since I have much to lose financially. I
can't let go my promised SS benefits for uncle Sam to use it to make
war. I'm gonna collect my due the minute they said I could.

As a person who most likely will be retired outside of the states I'm
all in favor that LPDR give us a favorable incentive to live there.
Like not having to pay high fee for a long stay, or renew visa all the
time. Allowing us to buy land direct from government and if we stay
there over twenty years with no crime committed we have the right to
full title of the land otherwise government can take the land back. I
prefer buying direct from government since this is only the entity in
Laos that I can trust. The land should only be used for residential or
small farm. For that purpose then nobody is allowed to buy more than 5
acres. Let suppose I bought five acres from goverment for $50K and I
built a home there. When the twenty years are up I should own the land
out right. The government should give me a clear title. If I did
committed a crime and proven in court then my twenty years is reset to
year zero. If I got kick out of the country the improvement to the
land should be compensated fairly base on market value. What I lost is
the cost of the land not the house. Think about it, most of us will
behave so good if we have so much to lose.

With incentive like this many will want to go back to retire there. I
don't mind renting but I rather have a farm out there I can tend to.
Most financially challenge retirees in the states are going to central
America for retiring. I'm sure many people my generation who came from
Laos want to go back to where we came from. Our parents don't see
reason to go back to retire there since they are so attached to us and
they are not financially viable. For my generation we are not attached
to our children. We became westernized the way we brought them up. We
taught them to be self sufficient and we are not emotionally and
financial attached to them like our parents did. So it is easier for
us to pack and leave. Many of us have financial mean to live in any
part of the world. Give us that opportunity and Laos will see many
bright, progressive, productive retirees there. Don't you want your
children to be taught by the brightest, technically skilled people? I
for one will not care to vote or to meddle with internal politics. I'm
sure by that time, fifteen years from now, Laos will have plenty of
bright young people who will do the right things for their country.

As of opium, it's good that Dr Pao brought it up. In a recent article
in Fortune magazine do read about how pharmaceutical companies in the
US colluded with physicians to get people hook on lab created opium
and drugs. Just one drug (oxycontin) alone brought in over $3 billion
for a company. How much do opium growers in remote mountains of Laos
brought in? Probably just enough to buy couple sacks of rices to last
a cold winter.

The more we know about this thing the better we are to stand up for
our people rights. When you walk in that meeting room with those white
people from UN you better be prepared. If they think you are backward
they will impose their laws on you. They have done it in the past and
they will keep doing it.

pizone

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Nov 22, 2011, 5:23:12 PM11/22/11

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ລາວພວນ

ຄືວ່າຍາກແທ້ນໍ ອັນຢາກຄືນເມືອຢູ່ນຳຄອມມູນິດນີ້ ບໍ່ຈັກວ່າຂໍຮ້ອງນຳທູດ
ຂໍນົບນຳຄົນຢູ່ຫໍຄຳ ປານນີ້ກໍຍັງແລ່ນອອກແລ່ນເຂົ້າປະເທດ ປົບໃຕ້ປົບເໜືອ
ແລະຮ້ອງເພງ ລໍແລ້ວລໍອີກ ຢູ່

ຄຶດຮອດຕອນໜີຄອມມູນິດຫັ້ນ ທຸກຢ່າງແມ່ນປິດລັບໝົດ ບອກໃຜກໍບໍ່ໄດ້
ແມ່ນແຕ່ພໍ່ແມ່ພີ່ນ້ອງ ທີ່ບໍ່ໜີນຳກັນ ແມ່ນບອກໃຫ້ຮູ້ບໍ່ໄດ້ເດັດຂາດ
ບາດຊິກັບຄືນສູ່ອ້ອມກອດຂອງຄອມມູ ເທື່ອນີ້ ປະກາດໃຫ້ໂລກຮູ້ ຂໍຮ້ອງແລ້ວນົບອີກ
ກໍຍັງບໍ່ໄດ້ອະນຸມັດ ໜ້າເຫັນໃຈນຳເດ...

ຊໍ້າຮ້າຍ ຄັນຊິຫລອຍໄປຫາສາວຈ່ອຍ ຜັດມີແມ່ຕູ້ຢູ່ຂ້າງ ຄອຍຈ່ອງແອວຢູ່
ຈັ່ງແມ່ນກັມມະເວນນໍ... ຕູ້ພວນເອີຍ

ປີຊອນ

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