Are we using our knees (pebcaug) to stomp over the hilltop (hauvtoj)?

[Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej]

Language evolves, does pebcaug no longer mean our knees but hilltop, hauvtoj? Yeah, that was just a stab at the multiple meaning of words, but aside from that is this pebcaug just a neologism for certain areas of the world, mainly in US/Canada and perhaps France/Austrailia? While those in China and Indochina might still make the distinction between what a pebcaug is to that of what a hauvtoj is, usage in the industrialized nations wise, hardly anyone even know or care to know what a hauvtoj is anymore. Are we using our knees (pebcaug) to stomp over the hilltop (hauvtoj)? What might be a suitable retronym to distinguish the two?

[AEON]

On Saturday, October 25, 2014 8:31:33 AM UTC-5, Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej wrote:
> Language evolves, does pebcaug no longer mean our knees but hilltop, hauvtoj? Yeah, that was just a stab at the multiple meaning of words, but aside from that is this pebcaug just a neologism for certain areas of the world, mainly in US/Canada and perhaps France/Austrailia? While those in China and Indochina might still make the distinction between what a pebcaug is to that of what a hauvtoj is, usage in the industrialized nations wise, hardly anyone even know or care to know what a hauvtoj is anymore. Are we using our knees (pebcaug) to stomp over the hilltop (hauvtoj)? What might be a suitable retronym to distinguish the two?

pebcaug== celebrate year long hardwork and HARVEST/ENJOY the produces of our works.

HAUVpewm tTOJ==personal opinion== pe hawm tooj roob hauv pes uas pab cawm/pov hwm kom HMOOB noj qab nykb zoo kom thawm xyoo.

IT all my limited opinion.

those are 2 different event just as thanksgiving and Christmas. it is Individual choice to do voth events or just one without the other. or just do it like me watch YOUTUBE and SCH all the time.

[Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej]

So you are saying while pebcaug is a non-religious thing that could be participate whenever one choose to, simply just a party of gathered people, therefore that's why the current trend of having pebcaug anywhere from September to December? Again from the language angle wise, is that the reason why you can only tam hauvtoj but you don't tam pebcaug (only noj pebcaug)?

[yag...@gmail.com]

Most people...even our respected phd idiots....dont know what a hauvtoj is. They think hsuvtoj is a new year celebration. This is the problem. The reason is not that we changed it...its because the idiots dont know whst a new year is

Ya

[AEON]

we are already forgeting our cultural things.WATCHOUTat this rate soon we will forget we are HMONG too.some of our teenagers already do NOT know our language.

[Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej]

What is the sole purpose of a language, is it to link to an identity, or it is to enable the communication of ideas? What is our language? Back to whether the mass choose to call it hauvtoj or pebcaug, with the understanding that irregardless whatever the scholars/leaders/educators/whatever might decide, the ultimate choice is the usage by the people themselves. If the prefer choice is pebcaug, are we going to go against one of our own proverb of tseeb tes zejzog tseeb, cuav tes zejzog cuav? Are we still going to argue against the majority? From the business angle, if you have more opportunity to do business during a pebcaug than a hauvtoj, wouldn't you want to call the gathering a pebcaug than a hauvtoj? Unless you are an etymologist, would you really care whether the gathering of multitude to boost the economy is called by the wrong name? Meaning changes as time passed and enough usages to alter the definition, so could it be that hauvtoj may just going to collect dust in the dictionary collection bins? Would you rather use a name that automatically understood by anyone at any age to signify a party, a social gathering for fun, or a name that no one really understood what it is and might have an unintentional stigma of religious ties?

[AEON]

in bzness point the more event the moe $ into profit. if you can convince the majority to join you. you will profit awesomely and a billionade will be a short distance away only. BUT if you still debate knowing less than HALF of thistopic just like mostHMONG educaturs rhan FORGETabout PROFIT.

[AEON]

if you are good enough just go ahead RENT out the LARGEST place and call that event whatever you like. however if you still rely on HMONGand other ORG to organize and pickup the cost you better know these thing better to CONVINCEour STUPID/IRON HEAD HMONG

[AEON]

if you are DARE enough just use the bible, twist it as you see fit
just as DAVID KORESH did it in WACO,TX. $ and young meats are guarantee to flow right into you. just a name no problem you can call it WACO2 if you still looking 41.

On Saturday, October 25, 2014 8:31:33 AM UTC-5, Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej wrote:

[AEON]

On Saturday, October 25, 2014 8:31:33 AM UTC-5, Moobthaibteb

just a name if you still depend on HMONG and other ORG to pickup the cost than you will run into a HARD time trying to CONVINCE stupid and those heads harder than STEEL to follow your GOLDEN IDEA.guess what those HMONGS got their best ideas of their own too. if you try to convince them they will say you and your ideas are junks.

guess what one of my cousins said "those BA,BS papers need to go into the trashcan now. it is NOT even good for cleaning ass in the restroom.thaum ntej kuv chim kawg.55555555

[Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej]

On Saturday, October 25, 2014 9:31:33 AM UTC-4, Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej wrote:
> Language evolves, does pebcaug no longer mean our knees but hilltop, hauvtoj? Yeah, that was just a stab at the multiple meaning of words, but aside from that is this pebcaug just a neologism for certain areas of the world, mainly in US/Canada and perhaps France/Austrailia? While those in China and Indochina might still make the distinction between what a pebcaug is to that of what a hauvtoj is, usage in the industrialized nations wise, hardly anyone even know or care to know what a hauvtoj is anymore. Are we using our knees (pebcaug) to stomp over the hilltop (hauvtoj)? What might be a suitable retronym to distinguish the two?

In another place and time there was a discussion about the proper way of chiseling the paper money for the dead at a funeral rite. I pointed out that that ritual is/was just a change/evolves as time past of how materialistic human nature are. While some say the paper has to be certain kind and the way to txaug it has to be certain way, I questioned why can't the paper just be any type, like any newspaper size with all types of prints already all over them or even a blank regular school textbook notebook size loose leaf paper rather than those silver and gold glitter paper that you could only get from the oriental store. They jumped at me for how ignorant I was of our culture. When I pointed out that while some may want to argue about whether paper was invented in China or invented in Egypt about 2,200 years ago, let us all just give it even more credit, the invention time, that it was 2,500 years ago. Since there are many claims that we, whether we choose to be known as Moob/Hmoob/Hmong/Mong/Mhong/HMong/Hmu/Ma/Miao/whatever had been a group as far back as 5000 years ago, then what did we use for those death rituals before the paper was invented? My point was while they concentrate only on the process/procedure, I question the original purpose of the whole thing to begin with.

Back to this whether it should be call hauvtoj or tsab [pebcaug], why are we so concern about the "when" should only be the appropriate time? I am just curious about if we want to pin pebcaug to only be allow to be use at the very end of the year, so it could and would represent the number 30 correctly. If we are going to argue about the purpose of 30 is to welcome the new year, are we just going to blindly ignore the very simple fact that December has 31 days and not only 30 days? If 30 is to welcome the new year, why didn't we call it 31 to begin with? If pebcaug is to welcome the new year, why should it only be in December instead of February? Anyone ever heard of Chinese new year? While the Thai solar calendar pretty much follow the Gregorian calendar, Thai lunar calendar has the new year celebration to be anywhere in mid April to early May. Thai lunar calendar is mainly used in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar--countries that we have migrated to for hundreds of years. If pebcaug is solely for the purpose of welcoming the new year, why didn't we do it in April or May?

Again, from the language angle, while other nations/ethinics have holy days/holidays, but for us, if pebcaug is being use widely to represent a social gathering event, will it one day be evolves to simply pebcaug=party that can be use anytime anywhere?

[yag...@gmail.com]

Moobtwm

I do not think we r evolving. The provlem lies in the fact that moob in usa do not know what a hauvtoj is....they think its a new year.

As for knee...i have no idea what u r saying.

Yh

[yag...@gmail.com]

30 is not referring to the 30th day

It is the number of dishes eaten in 3 days during new year

[AEON]

YEP you got iHMONG USA did NOT know HAUVTOJ because we RANAWAY from our HOMELAND which we no longer inside our jurisdiction of OUR HAUVTOJ WHIC lead us to IGNORE the HAUVTOJ CELEBRATION foe several DECADES. NOT UNTIL GVP and HMONG AMERICAN went back to CHINA to re-established our connection/relation that HMONG AMERICAN RETURN BACK to do that HAUCTOJ event AGAIN. atleast in MN the FIRST time I was in a HAUVTOJ was during a HMONG CHINESE came here for a conference with GVP in MSParea. I KNEW this conference because I was the guy who went to that BUILDING in ST.PAUL,MNtosetup the chairs and microphone system for that conference. TXAJMUAG LOJ vim kuv maj2 mus teeb rooj kuv hnav ris tsho xam kus-n TABSIS twb 5 coj kaslasvav. zoo mas kuv ho pom kuv caj dab 5 muaj kaslasvav ua ntej GVP thiav cov HMONG suav tuaj txog lub conference ces kuv tso hauj lwm teeb rooj thiab zov lub rooj register 6 ib tug phoojywg leg kuv dajlis rov mus tsev mus coj kaslasvav qoos2 kuv mam RAG tuaj txog ua ntej GVP thiab HMOOB suav tuaj txog. txij hnub ntawd los ces ib txoj kaslas yeej nyob hauv kuv lub hnab kuv ib txwm nqa mus MEETING. TXAJMUAG tiag zaum ntawd h av cev ris tsho zoo tshaj hauv kuv lun tsev twb mus teeb rooj tiav los zaum lub rooj REGISTRATION ua cas cajdab 5 muaj kaslasvav. maj kawg mus nraum tsheb RAG ntws rov mus tsev.

[yag...@gmail.com]

Aeon...

Hauvtoj was not brought back from china by vp. Thaum nyob nplogteb kuv yeej ibtxwm pom hauvtoj laiv.

Hmoob yeej ibtxwm muaj hauvtoj...but people mislabeled them as new year in america.

Just so u know...yog pov pob lawm ces yog hauvtoj. You hu plig 30 ces yog new year

Yoojyim li no xwb masr

[AEON]

atleast nyob MN never a HAUVTOJ until a few HMONG suav scholar/EXPERTwere here withGVP in a BIG conference. after thr cinference for a few week than I saw the 1ST HAUVTOJ at a park outside of MINNEAPOLS less than 5 miles on the WEST SIDE.

as for the TWO terms 30 thiaj hu plig pov pob tibsi hos hauvtoj= nohuplg no pov pob. it looks HMOOB indeed confuse on this since we SCHsuppose to be the educated an in my 40's I suppose to know these things if you are under 40 than I win on 30 and HAUVTOJ. Iguess we need to push theolder generation like my father in his late 60 or early 70 I think his generation will know this different better. HAUVTOJ was NOTfor every one neither ifIgot it right. it might be similar to TU SUB where only a few group did it while other just watch and get to EAT delicious foods to add a few kilogram to their bellies especially GOLDEN CRSPY PORK. for me at 6-7 i like 30 because my famuly butchered chicken in 20 + all boiled and leave them cool hauv vab 6 pem txee kuv mus pov2 pob los txog tsev ces noj ncuav thiab qaib vom txias xaiv ncej puab xwb kav li 4-5 hnub cov qaib mam tas ntshe yog pib tsw2 lawm kuv niam muab coj pov pub aub lawm xwb vim 3 muaj 2-3 aub keej2 caum tsiaj thiab tom daum tom koos 16 aub ntxub lawv heev vim lawv noj nqaij aub aub paub zoo kawg cov ntawd tuaj txog 9deb 10 deb aub twb TSEM/QW TXAWV2 lawm hnov lub suab mas paub zoo kawg tias aub tsem2 koos 16 lawm ntag ov.

[yag...@gmail.com]

Tejzaum nej tsi paub tiag...

Hauvtoj tsi zoo li tu sub...txawv deb li deb os.

Noj 30 hu plig tsi muaj pov pob...tsi muaj sports...tsi muaj beauty pageant...CUZ IT HAPPENS INHOUSE...it involves dabqhua.

hauvtoj occurs outside of the house...usually at a mountsinside...hauvtoj muaj kev lomzem nrog cow fightings...ball tossing...ntaus tis qaib...THAT THING U GO TO EVERY YEAR AT THE CONVENTION CENTER IS A HAUVTOJ WITHOUT THE POLES. You can change it...add minus...whatever los tau...anytime los tau. BUT THIS IS NOT A NEW YEAR

nej cov niag hmoob no es lam tau lam hais li. PUAS MUAJ IB TUS PHD NYOB HAUV NO LI? I AM WILLINGG TO BET THAT HE NO NOTHING...

EVEN DR SUAV...DOES NOT NO WHAT A HMONG NEW YEAR IS...SHAME ON THEM

[AEON]

level of understanding is similar OUR
OUR DIFFERENCES are:

#1 my 30 hu plig 7 pov pob your ver no pov pob 4 30

#2 my hauvtoj no hu pli no pov pob BUT your version got those.

YEP HAUVTOJ OMLY outside. 3o start outside than that night go inside the house for the FOOD lots of MEATS. the morning after that go outside for pov pob xaiv nyab xaiv vauv.

[yag...@gmail.com]

Koj pom leej pib 30 from outside na...what ur referring to is lwm sub nram tiaj....qhov no peb moob leeg twb ua thiab ne...but it is not a new year..

Yh

[AEON]

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 2:39:45 PM UTC-6, yag...@gmail.com wrote:
> Koj pom leej pib 30 from outside na...what ur referring to is lwm sub nram tiaj....qhov no peb moob leeg twb ua thiab ne...but it is not a new year..
>
> Yh

YOU MIXED-UP LWM SWB AND LWM QAIB
lwm qaib i for ALL onthe evening of that 30 righ at the sun is on the horizon about to go down while lsm sub is only for a few family who HAVE TO DO it ONLY.
YOU zre confusing BIGTIME 30 begins with lwm qaib BUTto do that you need to BLAWM thiab CHEB TSEV siv ib re BLOOJ CHEB taw ces nqa REV BLOOJ mus tso tom lub hauv paus NTOOPOS uas sawv lwm qaib tom tiaj.
mloog mas zoo li koj twb 5 tau muaj cuab yig mus xyaum kev noj r0.

tim BLOG kuv pom thiab yog tus mus TXIAS tus NTOOPOS los ziv lwm qaib. muaj ib hom ntoopos nkau xwb thiaj siv tau. TABSIS tsob tu ntsis lawm 5 yuav. hom ntoo no tim 3 zos muaj ntau2 pawg lug TABSIS thaum yuav siv mas nrhiav2 ceb muag thiab MAG NQEEB MAG POS TXHOB tas vim mus saib zoo2 mas 90+% twb 5 muaj lub ntsis lawm thiab yuav tau hlaia ib pob mqeeb los feb ua txoj hlua LWM QAIB. ntxim li klj hluas2 noj 30 tim USA xwb tej qav num 30 koj 5 tau pib hauv paus kom nto ntsis.

ntawm LWM SUB mas tej CAJCES HMOOB thiaj ua xwb. peb tsev no mas 5 lwm sub. qhov teeb meem sub mas txhua tus MUAJ peb li mas 3 take care yam sub by UABNEEB SAU SUB. ib cajces take sub mus lawm ib yam. 5 tu cov no mas teeb meem yooj8 vim ua tej yam raug 5 sab los sub laum/aiv kiag ces sab2 tsaus1 muag feeb 5 meej lawm. thaum MAG li no yog TXAWJ KHAWV KOOB no s7v ib daim blooj CHEB/BLAWMnrawm2 rus raug mob yuav xeev meej sai2. tom hav CAUBFAB kuv pom lawm.
zaj khawv koob mas hnov lawm TABSIS tsam no 5 cim tau me2 li lawm yog leej twg hais kuv hnov mas 5 dhau 2-3 lo kuv paub kiag xwb2.

ib zaj khawv koob kuv 5 tau kawm los tau 5uav luag tas mas yog zaj TXHAUB CEEB. vim thaum kuv mos2 me2 kuv nquag2 CEEBheev hnov 5 tau ib yam nrov loj un-normal li ov hnov ces CEEB nkaus OBYAUV... pheej pom jb ces ceeb 5 tso tseg lub cev
KUB2 yuav ciaj yuav tuag tiag2. kawg mus THAWJ tus TXAWJ thov kom PAB ua khawv koob daws/txhaub ceeb tej tug mas ua PUB DAWB tej tug mas them nyiaj. KUV MAG2 li no dhuav kuv niam kuv txiv dhau kuv mus kawm kiag thiaj khees zog kuv MAG ceeb cis fij cis tom suav 5 rxheeb. kuv mos2 mus txog thaum kuv paub tab zog kom txhob CEEB2clawm ces kuv txiv ua zaj khawv koob 6 kuv ntau2 zaus suav 5 txheeb hnov ntau heev tsam kuv twb cim rau tshaj 90% lawm.mus thawj kws li 2-3 xuaj moos ntxiv no kuv tau tas nrho xwb ntag.

[yag...@gmail.com]

Koj mas....lwm qaib xyoo tshiab ces yog lwm sub mas...temsus koj tsi nkag siab xwb.

Lwm qaib mas yog yuav pojniam tshiab es lwm ov...

[yag...@gmail.com]

Qhov no ytk thiab kuv twb muab tham meej lawm sub....ua ca koj tseem haus li ko na

[yag...@gmail.com]

Vim yog moob white tsi ntxug sub...lawd lwm nrog new year xwb....es thiaj muaj lwm sub...tsi yog lwm qaib.

Hluas nqeeb ntev 9 dag....ua tib yam lu moob lees mas...temsis tsi ntxug xwb

[yag...@gmail.com]

Tus ntoo pos ces yog ntio ncag mas...txob txim yuav tus muaj muaj pos los nqai sub mas...moob lees los tib yam li.

Qhov no yog lwm sub na. Ntshe muaj ib co hu ua kwm qaib no xwb....

Regardless....qhov no tsi yog ua nram hauvtoj not because it is required to. But only cuz there is room for all. Tsi tag yuavvua nram hauvtoj...tsuav yog tom tshavpuam uas muaj room xwb.

Yh

[AEON]

30 mus lwm qaib ces tom tiaj dav2 xwb mas.

[AEON]

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 6:20:48 PM UTC-6, yag...@gmail.com wrote:

lwm qaib 30 tas sub 5 tiav lwm qaib mas TXHUA2 xeem HMOOB KOOM UA KE nyob VINAIS tas nro lu thoj nam vib nais twb mus KOOM nram tshav npas cob tiag2 suh ces nyias PAB kwvtij koom dab mam mus ua nws HAUJ lwm tu sub tim vibnais 3 ua txawv zog me2 ibtug kwv kwvtij qhov muag twb LEM2cov coj mas rov sablaj vig voog zaum tom qab mam rov ua kom yog2.SUB tsis DOG DIG coj 5 haum ces PIAM 6 cov saum neej kom sawv RAS DEEV.

[yag...@gmail.com]

Kuv twb tias lwm qaib li ko yog lwm sub no ne...

Yh