Mao Tse Tung was a descendent of Hmong
Eh Xiong
forum, I sense that we have a well-represented group of Hmong scholars
here. I would appreciate any help you can give me.
I came across many debates that Mao Tse Tung was a descendent of
Hmong. Can anyone here point me to any reference that supports this
claim ? I need more proof than the fact that he's from Yunnan
province.
Also, does anyone here have any reference to Qi You, the mythological
first emperor of China ? I believe history has it that he was the
first true emperor of China. He was defeated by Huangdi whom many
Chinese scholars regard as the first Chinese emperor.
Thank you in advance !
Eh Xiong
vimlicas
> I came across many debates that Mao Tse Tung was a descendent of
> Hmong. Can anyone here point me to any reference that supports this
> claim ? I need more proof than the fact that he's from Yunnan
> province.
>
I surely don't know anything detail about Mao, what I know is that a
chinese lawyer said that Mao was not a Han, he was a minority, but not
sure what minor nationality he was.
Pao
> forum, I sense that we have a well-represented group of Hmong scholars
> here. I would appreciate any help you can give me.
>
> I came across many debates that Mao Tse Tung was a descendent of
> Hmong. Can anyone here point me to any reference that supports this
> claim ? I need more proof than the fact that he's from Yunnan
> province.
>
>
> Eh Xiong>>
This is an interesting question. I have many people asked about this
issue.
I have asked some Chinese Hmong who have been working with Mao and
have been helped by Mao. These Chinese Hmong said that Mao is the one
person in recent times that save the Hmong and help the Hmong more
than any one else in China.
They all know that Mao was from an area that the bulk of the
population is Hmong BUT NO ONE (Chinese Hmong) is yet prepare to say
whether Mao is Hmong or not! - their standard answer is "don't know".
Pao
Teng Vang
During my school years in University of South Alabama, I did quite a
bit of research about Hmong in China and other great leaders (Mao
Tse-Tung, Moshe Sharett, Joseph Lenin, Nikita Khrushchev, Karl Marx,
Ho Chi Minh, Suharto, Prince Pethsarath, Souphanouvong, etc...).
I remembered to read a book about Mao's movement during the culture
revolution. The book indicated that at one time, Mao was badly
suppressed and retreated to the rocky and high mountains where the
Hmong people live. They (the Hmong) not only provided supports but
also helped Mao by hiding him and giving him and his people foods for
many months until he regained more supports and control.
He may not be a Hmong but with the supports, hospitalities, and
honesty of the Hmong, he did not forget them. When he became the
Chairman, he returned favor to them as they had helped him.
In regard to other Hmong history and kingdom in China, I read an
ancient book indicated that once upon a time, there were "San Miao" -
to me "Peb Hmoob" who fought with the Chinese King (this was before
Huangdi's or Hong Ti's time). The battle went on for years. San Miao
were badly oppressed and wounded. They (San Miao) appealed to the
King of heaven. The King of heaven said that the "San Miao" people
don't love each other and they also were the younger (possible meant
that the Han or other Chinese groups were older group than the Hmong),
therefore the King of heaven gave the green light for the King of
China to teach the "San Miao" a lesson. As a result, "San Miao" were
being heavily punished. Their blood became flowing streams and the
"San Miao" were exiled to the South China where appeared the Hmong
2000 years later. When I read the book, it was like a legend or
folktale.
If we really look into our past history, we were at war in the
beginning of time but because of separations and divisions, we always
destroyed ourselves at the end. Now, it's the 21st century yet we
still see and hear the same thing (i.e separation and division) daily.
Somewhere in Hmong history, we must have done something terribly
wrong and must be cursed for eternity. We, all Hmong in the world,
may have to "kwv ntaub liab ntaub ntsuab rau ram tiaj es thov ntuj
thim kev vij sub vij sw tawm ntawm Hmoob mus. Es sawvdaws tig los ua
neeg zoo nyob ntiaj teb. Kom Hmoob tsuas coj tib tug kev cai lawm xwb
tsis hais kev ua nyuaj dab npua tai, kev tshoob kev kos, kev ib siab
ob qhig los kom ua tib yam tag nrho. Cov coj kev cai tshiab lawm los
kom ua ib pab denomination xwb.
May Ntuj and God have mercy on Hmong,
Teeb
beemou...@earthlink.net
Chairman Mao was a Hmong Xeem Muas from Hinan Island, In China.
According to Mao's biography from the Chinese Mainland & Taiwanese
Mao's Mother was a Chinese & his Father was Hmoob Xeem Muas from the
Hinan Island.
Mao in Chinese is Moua or Xeem Hmoob Muas cuab, Hmoob chinese afraid
to said that Mao was Hmoob, but 70% of the chinese populations knew
very well that Mao was A Hmoob from Hainan Island.
The main reason Chao Fa got support from Chinese in 1978-1987 because
Mao told the Highest official in Beijing to aid Hmong-Lao.
Also the first lady of Taiwanese Chiangkaicheck was Mao's sister &
Connie Chong Of NBC news in the U.S. is the Daughtre's of President.
During the Chinese Civil war the Kummingtung party of Chiangkaicheck
killed thousands of Hmoob in china & many other minorities without any
wrong doing. Mao than decided to lead Chinese troops to fight against
his Brother in-law Chiang to save Hmoob & Chinese peoples.
While Japanese invading China Hmoob of Hainan were Mao's main support
with food supplies
& manpower.
Mao's had 3 wives, the first wife died while he was training in
Russian, the second wife was a comrade of the Red Army, & third was a
Single.
Mao had many unidentified children, in 1965 he announced with the
Chinese national Radio & T.V. to search for all the Sons & about 30
young Chinese claimed to be his children.
So far 5000 years ago King Chin yu was Hmoob Vaj, & Chairman Mao was
Chinese Leader until 1979.
Tsujsua Dluag
with my brain...i would like to see the sources of these claims..
yaweh
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
ntxubhmoob
HMAS
feeling a hot burning on my left ear already when I open this thread
up. Until such evidence are exposed that Chairman Mao was Hmoob. Let's
keep the topic as general as possible. Let's not start claiming this
and that, which at the end may only embarrass us. Claiming someone
especially a national figure such as Mao to be Hmoob without proper
proof of biological history is a disgrace, uncivilized, and offensive
to the deceased individual as well as to the people of Hmoob. Are we
so cheap to create our own true Hmoob blood leaders that we MUST
ponder into history and conjures false information of other
nationalities' leaders to represent us in history as well as the
present? Come to think of it, I'm not even sure if Chi Yu is a true
Hmong Emperor as legend has it? Anyhow, that's another topic.
HMAS
beemou...@earthlink.net (beemou...@earthlink.net) wrote in message news:<b8cb1b1.02053...@posting.google.com>...
Tzexa Lee
Hi all,
When I read these replies, I just cannot stop thinking about many
Hmong's claim that Sinxay was a Hmong. I read and studied the Sinxay
literature in Lao. It was nothing, but a fiction story. Some of us
are just like any typical illiterate Hmong. Assumption and fact are
the same. Look, xeem muas is Ma (sound like "mam" in Hmong).
Mao was a Hunan native and spoke very thick accent that many Han
Chinese could hardly understand him. He was a teacher. I agree that
mao might be from an ethnic minority, but because he was such a big
leader, his background has been concealed. Those who interest and
have time should go to Hunan province and find it. I want to know,
too.
Tzexa
Her Lao
news:9e6c60a7.02052...@posting.google.com
> Greeting All: Reading through some of these discussion on this SCH
> forum, I sense that we have a well-represented group of Hmong scholars
> here. I would appreciate any help you can give me.
*** Eh, what's this? An "ethnographic survey" of the various Chinese
groups and whether or not the Hmong were involved in some major
corssroads?
> I came across many debates that Mao Tse Tung was a descendent of
> Hmong. Can anyone here point me to any reference that supports this
> claim ? I need more proof than the fact that he's from Yunnan
> province.
*** Kuv twb tuaj thov mov tom koj thiab Tub Ntxawg li tsev tom neb noj
muaj, at least, ob peb zaug lawm los sav! You've seen me and my balding
head!, so don't even try to ignore it! The SIMILARITIES (between Her Lao
and Mao Sees Toos) are all over the map! Of course, Mao was a an ethnic
Hmong-Chinese! He must be! I got my very balding genes from genes
shared by Mao himself. In fact, in my family, there's someone named
Mao, too. My family truly descended from a line that includes Mao Tse
Tung, so he must have been Hmong,,, at some point!
> Also, does anyone here have any reference to Qi You, the mythological
> first emperor of China ? I believe history has it that he was the
> first true emperor of China. He was defeated by Huangdi whom many
> Chinese scholars regard as the first Chinese emperor.
*** Now, insofar as Qi You, Shi Huangdi, et al go, it's kinda far back
in time,,, mostly myths, legends, and folksies.
*** Yet, again, I'm sure my family has some subtle connection, even that
far,,, a time when the two major ethnic "Chinese" under the Fiery and
Yellow Emperors to the north united to defeat the fiery "San-Miao" (of
which Hmong were a part) and the Jiu-Li tribes, along the fertile banks
of the Yellow River, to the south. (See, at that time some had already
organized themselves into more cohesive units called "ethnics" while
others were still just simple, hunting-gathering "tribes".),,,
*** Why or how, you ask? Well, evidently, not only do we in my family
have someone named "Mao", we also have someone named "Lei", in honor of
the Yellow emperor's beloved wife, whose great industriousness led her
to the discovery of silk making!
*** Sorry, Eh, is all personal history from my angle, and I'm certain
the info wouldn't help much with your ethnigraphic research,,,
Her Lao,
P.S. one last but it certainly is not the least thing: As you know,
"Lao"-tzu was also a distant relative of my family's! You say, all
coincidences, inadvertencies, and silliness? But you have to ask: one
family like Her Lao's and THREE incredibly relevant-not-so-relevant
connectedness ("Lao", "Mao", and "Lei") to these major historicities? Is
that possible,,, that is, only pure coincidences? If it were possible,
then tell me one other Hmong or Chinese family that has more of those
"coincidences" than my family! Hmmmm! ;o)
>
> Thank you in advance !
>
> Eh Xiong
Charlie
mistresses hated him for his strong breath. I remember when I was
young living near Mt. Phubia (the mountain of the Chao Fa as Moua Bee
probably would agree)after the LPDR or Communists took over Laos -
Hmong hardly brushed their teeth, either. Some did not even bath
themselves nor their enfants until they turned adolescence. I do not
wish Mao to ever be a Hmong but, sure enough, his behavior resembled
ours. I've also heard that during Mao's reign, he had intercoursed
with many virgins ranging from 13 years old and above, and he had more
than one wife. Hmong men back then also loved the same thing: even
today some men still quench for that prohibited desire.
Charlie
vang...@yahoo.com (Teng Vang) wrote in message news:<64a44e74.02053...@posting.google.com>...
Tham
Although today when we think of Han Chinese, we generally tend to see
them as one ethnic group, the fact is that they are the descendants of
many smaller ethnic groups or tribes, unified and brought together
through thousands of years of on-going assimilation. By assimilation,
I particularly mean it in biology (genetics) as well as in cultures.
I believe that perhaps many millions of Han Chinese today have Hmong
blood in them. And of the seven or so millions of Hmong in China, many
of them have Han's or another nationality's blood or genes in their
bodies.
China has long been an empire, formed through thousands of years of
wars, invasions, and assimilation, though it has had its many peace
times.
If you say perhaps Mao Ze-dong has Hmong blood in him, I would believe
it more than if you say he was a full Hmong. I think anyone who
claims that Mao Ze-dong was fully a Hmong must be going crazy or out
of his/her mind.
However, assimilation always works in favor of the STRONGEST group of
all, while the weaker, smaller groups would slowly disappear or melt
away to become a part of the large, powerful, and dominated group.
Hmovtshua,
Thisvis
ehx...@yahoo.com (Eh Xiong) wrote in message news:<9e6c60a7.02052...@posting.google.com>...
Brandon Thao
support these claims. I once heard about a Hmong-Chinese Scholar who
did a research on the life of Chairman Mao and was planning to publish
it, but the Chinese government refused to let him do so. One
explanation for it was that it was afraid the world would know that
Chairman Mao was of a Hmong descent. Ke shi, zhe bu tai qing chu.
--Brandon.
beemou...@earthlink.net (beemou...@earthlink.net) wrote in message news:<b8cb1b1.02053...@posting.google.com>...
>
Tham
Oh, come on, let's be realistic and rational.
There was NO curse whatsoever.
What is it then? It's the survival of the smartest, fittest,
strongest, most learned, most civilized, most advanced, most unified,
most aggressive, most deceptive, and also most compassionate.
Hmong have not been successful in establishing a Hmong State or
Kingdom not because there was a curse for Hmong to always be losing,
scattering all over the world. No, please stop this non-sensical kind
of mentality. It is NOT a curse.
The Han Chinese have been most successful in China, not because God
has been on their side, or not because they got no curse, no! It's
because, historically and rationally speaking, they were stronger,
smarter, more in number, more advanced, more learned, more complex,
more civilized, more unified, and more aggressive. It has nothing to
do with curse or bless or whatever superstitious beliefs!
I really think we Hmong must stop this kind of mentality of being
cursed. If you want to win and be more successful in life, then get
education, unite, have shared visions, work hard, love each other, and
do other things that would move you up.
Hmovtshua,
Thisvis
vang...@yahoo.com (Teng Vang) wrote in message news:<64a44e74.02053...@posting.google.com>...
> If we really look into our past history, we were at war in the
> beginning of time but because of separations and divisions, we always
> destroyed ourselves at the end. Now, it's the 21st century yet we
> still see and hear the same thing (i.e separation and division) daily.
> Somewhere in Hmong history, we must have done something terribly
> wrong and must be cursed for eternity.
> May Ntuj and God have mercy on Hmong,
>
> Teeb
M. M. Lee
written biographies of Mao in libraries instead of posting your
inquiry here. According to what little I know about Mao from Chinese
scholars and experts and what readings I've done on Mao, he was of a
peasant class, but he was Han Chinese. His "heavy" Mandarin accent may
be due to the fact that he was a peasant who, although very well read,
did not gain too much formal education. It could also be that he was
from the south where Cantonese is the major dialect.
You know they say that Lao-Tzu was "Miao", too. But keep in mind that
"Miao" is a complex word in Chinese history. Today, all "Hmong" in
China are included under the name "Miao", but not all "Miao" are
"Hmong". We must not be so quick to jump the gun whenever we see the
words "minority" or, more particularly, "Miao".
As a student of history, what I find most interesting is how rumors
evolve into legends of truth among the Hmong. Someone should really do
a dissertation on the Hmong legend creating methods. An aunt of mine
who recently arrived from Laos asked me if it was true that the
Americans had this really tall cement post which disappeared into the
clouds. According to Laotian Hmong legends which circulated around
the hills of Laos, the Americans said whoever could climb to the top
of this post would be the Hmong king. Not surprisingly but incredibly,
General Vang Pao (who is now in his late 70's) was the only person who
could climb it so he became the "Hmong King". I just had to laugh
because I doubt very much that even Hmong men in their early 20's
would be able to free climb the Washington Monument let alone a cement
post that reached beyond the clouds. It's amazing how our General Vang
Pao, even on the verge of being a septagenarian, could still be
rumored to be tied to darings feats of physical prowess. No wonder the
Lao exile politicians cannot continue their resistance without him.
Good luck to all and see you guys in a few seasons. Keep the legends
alive, use them to analyze the Hmong psyche, but don't take them as
history.
Mai Na
tobewitty
role, one must give up one's origine and true identity, social culture
and custom? if one is a minority or from the dirt poor class.
Yes every thing have a price, the one who is welling to pay the price
may succeed.
In this context, the minority nation must die in order for an
individual minority leader to rise?
tobewitty
> beginning of time but because of separations and divisions, we always
> destroyed ourselves at the end.
We were and will always fighting our own war and being refugee until
we come to understand the real meaning of "FREEDOME" and "FREEMAN".
We fight to be a FREEMAN not to have FREEDOM. A FREEMAN hate rules and
regulations, however to live in a FREEDOM society one must submit to
rules and regulations.
Lajntxiag
historical experiences and history itself. Sometimes, it helps to
step away from the "historical documents" and to see history without
looking far back at all. ...
--Lajntxiag
> Good luck to all and see you guys in a few seasons. Keep the legends
> alive, use them to analyze the Hmong psyche, but don't take them as
> history.
>
> Mai Na
Lis Nom
felt like they belong to us. What about the many other guys such as
Ghankis Khan, the superior Mongol leader that conquered almost half of
the this globe? What about Wu Xaqiao (Vwj Nkaj Tag)? Even the country
of Mongolia was claimed to be named after a Hmong Princess Maimaum Nkauj
Liag (Lig)? What about the great legend folktales of those great leaders
of Hmong such as "Vaj Yeem Leej", "Vaj Tswb Tshoj", "Pov Fwm Yej", "Vaj
Ncuab Zag", "Cob Xiengkhouang" uas caij tus ntxw cab rab tsuam kawb pog
Tuam Tshoj es los daig rau Xiengkhouang ces mam los tsim noob neej Nplog
Hmoob/Hmoob Nplog", thiab "Hnab Riam Tawj Plis nkawd ob kwv tij", "Niam
Nkauj Ntsuab & Txiv Nraug Nas"? Niam Luam Meb the founder of Wat
Thamkrabok was even Hmong came as a great dragon Princess and
transformed into a beautiful woman while no one could convince her to
come down from the mountain top other than those poor fellow Hmong to
greet her and carried her down. I still remembered my dad told me about
the pictures of Niam Nkauj Ntsuab thiab Txiv Nraug Nas nkawd raug suav
caum los mus nqis hiav Looj (underwater) ntawm qab tsua Chong Tong,
Xiengkhouang es los yees tau ib daim duab rau pog saum hauv tsua, Txiv
Raug Nas nqa rab qeej hos Niam Nkauj Ntsuab ev tus me nyuam tsa daim
txiag zeb thaiv nkawd es ob xib xub tuaj ntsia daim txiag zeb tshab
plaws. Kuv txiv hais tias qhov ntawd yog yees los tseg rau me nyuam
Hmoob saib ces nkawd txia ua zaj nqis dua hiav lauj lawm ces tso rog
Tuam Tshoj los tag li ntawd lawm. I was still little and didn't witness
the picture. I still hope someday I may be able to go back and see if
that was real as I was told. Perhaps, had any Hmong ever witnessed this
picture especially those involved during the late French and early
Vietnam conflicts might have seen it. I even heard stories about big
foot back in Laos when I was still little that he might be a Hmong King
walking across all countries and no one could traced his whereabouts.
It was true when I came to America and learned that Big Foot is actually
existed. Well friends and collegues, our mysterious folk legends might
have existed somewhere. How about finding out the facts of all these
legends? I think it will worth the try since our elders kept these
folktales for so long. In order to correct the future, we need to learn
about the past to avoid history to be repeated. Thanks folks. This is
my quarter cent for the night.
Tom
"M. M. Lee" <mlee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea31c499.0205...@posting.google.com
> Eh, I laughed when I saw this post. You would do well to consult
> written biographies of Mao in libraries instead of posting your
> inquiry here. According to what little I know about Mao from Chinese
> scholars and experts and what readings I've done on Mao, he was of a
> peasant class, but he was Han Chinese. His "heavy" Mandarin accent may
> be due to the fact that he was a peasant who, although very well read,
> did not gain too much formal education. It could also be that he was
> from the south where Cantonese is the major dialect.
>
> You know they say that Lao-Tzu was "Miao", too. But keep in mind that
> "Miao" is a complex word in Chinese history. Today, all "Hmong" in
> China are included under the name "Miao", but not all "Miao" are
> "Hmong". We must not be so quick to jump the gun whenever we see the
> words "minority" or, more particularly, "Miao".
>
>
sre...@gmail.com
Here's something for you to think about. Has it