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Hmong (mean Freedom)
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SamXiong
Nov 1, 2015, 2:07:14 AM11/1/15
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My personal opinion
Hmong mean freedom: Who translated and where was this translated come from?
I am somewhat disagree with this translation. You may think this is a good
and appropriate translate for Hmong, but when people look deep and far from
that the Freedom is mean rebellion, out law, lawless, or opposes the Authority.
Free-dom:
noun
1. the state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint: He won his freedom after a retrial.
2. exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc.
3. the power to determine action without restraint.
4. political or national independence.
5. personal liberty, as opposed to bondage or slavery: a slave who bought
his freedom.
6. exemption from the presence of anything specified (usually followed by from): freedom from fear.
7. the absence of or release from ties, obligations, etc.
Hmong mean freedom: Who translated and where was this translated come from?
I am somewhat disagree with this translation. You may think this is a good
and appropriate translate for Hmong, but when people look deep and far from
that the Freedom is mean rebellion, out law, lawless, or opposes the Authority.
Free-dom:
noun
1. the state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint: He won his freedom after a retrial.
2. exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc.
3. the power to determine action without restraint.
4. political or national independence.
5. personal liberty, as opposed to bondage or slavery: a slave who bought
his freedom.
6. exemption from the presence of anything specified (usually followed by from): freedom from fear.
7. the absence of or release from ties, obligations, etc.
truelove...@yahoo.com
Nov 2, 2015, 9:12:25 AM11/2/15
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I had not heard about Hmong meant Freedom, but I had heard about "Freeman". All you need to do is to do a search in SCH here...type "Free man, Freeman". there are plenty of information you can read about
cher...@gmail.com
Nov 2, 2015, 9:26:18 AM11/2/15
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Critic is very bad and not a good way to make thing change, approve is the way of people doing. Good to have someone put thing together into writing otherwise we still live like monkey and everything need to begin in the bottom again. We should give credit to the one who wrote it down into a book. The world change and people thinking also change. In the next 2-3 generations, they will not agree with your current ideas eighter. If something wrong, form a committee and make a change. Why critic.
yag...@gmail.com
Nov 2, 2015, 9:28:05 AM11/2/15
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if you search in here...you will find the answer.
me
Dec 10, 2015, 12:34:51 AM12/10/15
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In the US, we live by a system of law and order. We are not living by freedom. We live by laws passed by Congress/state legislatures, executive orders by the president/governors, rules/regulations/ordinances by agencies/organizations. We also self-regulate by norms, traditions, practices, etc.
Hmong in practice cannot mean "free". Hmong have never lived freely. Hmong have always, through known history, lived by family, clan and a people which set rules, customs, traditions and practices that Hmong abide by. No one is truly free. In my view, freedom is, even in its philosophical form, an alien concept to Hmong. BTW, "Hmong means free" is a fabrication by DYD.
Teev
Hmong in practice cannot mean "free". Hmong have never lived freely. Hmong have always, through known history, lived by family, clan and a people which set rules, customs, traditions and practices that Hmong abide by. No one is truly free. In my view, freedom is, even in its philosophical form, an alien concept to Hmong. BTW, "Hmong means free" is a fabrication by DYD.
Teev
beemou...@earthlink.net
Dec 12, 2015, 10:29:02 AM12/12/15
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minyuam...@gmail.com
Dec 12, 2015, 10:51:03 AM12/12/15
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Teev,
I hate so much when our Hmong scholar want to claim a piece of Hmong history, or place their names along the Hmong history legacy, or into the history books that many people will study at the university.
Case Example # 1: Dr. DYD have been playing good politic and fabrication along hmong war heros, so now, almost every research paper I read at college, in regarding to Hmong's involvement during the Vietnam war, also contain DYD's name.
The other day, I read a book about Hmong, and there it goes again, DYD, was mention during the Vietnam War section/ section where GVP was also mention.
Case Example #2: Dr. Thao, in regarding to the word MONG. I hated it so much, because many scholar I spoke to, were asking me for the pronunciation and meaning of the word MONG. I told them straight, MONG is a make up word of Hmoob by Dr. Thao. It was suppose to be written as HMONG/HMOOB.
He it is true that the way to pronounce the word Hmong, is "hawm hmoob".....I just scratch my head. Hawm hmoob is not the pronunciation of HMONG.
I hate so much when our Hmong scholar want to claim a piece of Hmong history, or place their names along the Hmong history legacy, or into the history books that many people will study at the university.
Case Example # 1: Dr. DYD have been playing good politic and fabrication along hmong war heros, so now, almost every research paper I read at college, in regarding to Hmong's involvement during the Vietnam war, also contain DYD's name.
The other day, I read a book about Hmong, and there it goes again, DYD, was mention during the Vietnam War section/ section where GVP was also mention.
Case Example #2: Dr. Thao, in regarding to the word MONG. I hated it so much, because many scholar I spoke to, were asking me for the pronunciation and meaning of the word MONG. I told them straight, MONG is a make up word of Hmoob by Dr. Thao. It was suppose to be written as HMONG/HMOOB.
He it is true that the way to pronounce the word Hmong, is "hawm hmoob".....I just scratch my head. Hawm hmoob is not the pronunciation of HMONG.
yingb
Dec 12, 2015, 12:22:01 PM12/12/15
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On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 1:07:14 AM UTC-6, SamXiong wrote:
Koj hais li ntawd rau DYD es cas koj ho tsis sau koj li.... thiab xav paub seb koj ho ua tau dab tsi rau Hmoob lawm thiab...
minyuam...@gmail.com
Dec 12, 2015, 1:04:14 PM12/12/15
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tijlaug...
kuv khib xwb. vim kuv pom tias dyd will forever b alongside gvp n hmong history.
kuv ua tsis tau dab tsis rau hmoob li.
kuv khib xwb. vim kuv pom tias dyd will forever b alongside gvp n hmong history.
kuv ua tsis tau dab tsis rau hmoob li.
Vaj Ncuab
Dec 12, 2015, 1:47:48 PM12/12/15
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Dr. Yang Dao txhais (define) los lus Hmong ua "Free man or Free People" kuj yog zoo. 2016 los yeej tseem tsis tau muaj ib tug Hmoob twg uas tshwm tau ib lub tswv yim thiab define tau los lus Hmoob (Hmong) meej thiab zoo tshaj Dr. Yang Dao lub. Ua li koj ho define lo lus Hmong li cas?
Suav los hu Hmoob uas Miao or Meo, Nyab Laj los hu Hmoob ua Miao, Nplog los hu Hmoob ua Meo, Pub Thawj los hu Hmoob ua Meo. 1980 Maj Gen. Oudone Sananikone sau nws phau ntawv "The Royal Lao Army and U.S. Army Advice and Support" rau US Army Center of Military History mas Gen. Oudone siv los lus Meo Vang Pao thoob nws phau ntawv.
Twb yog vim Dr. Yang Dao yog ib tug Hmoob, nws xav kom luag saib tau tus Hmoob, hu tus Hmoob muaj npe es thaum nws thiaj lo promote lub npe Hmong. Wilburt Garrette, the National Geographic Magazine sau li No:
Meo, Meo, Meo" no more--Hmong means "Free"
Upon returning to Laos in July 1972 from France, Dr. Yang Dao made an immediate impact in his native country. He had earned the respect of his fellow countrymen, improving how the Hmong were being perceived.
As he headed the Human Resource Department of the Ministry of Planning in the Royal Lao Government, his job was to travel throughout Laos to conduct workshops on social and economic development to Chaomuong (Chiefs of Districts) and Chaokhoueng (Governors) of the Kingdom of Laos, where a political agreement had been signed in February 1973 by the Royal Lao Government and the communist Pathet Lao. Known as the Vientiane Accords, this political agreement stipulated a cease-fire between Lao communists and non-communists, and promoted peace and national reconciliation. He also contributed to the building of a national conscience among all Laotian ethnic groups, bounded by the same destiny and called to work together for social justice and for a better future of the country of Laos.
During his travels, he would be tenacious about abolishing the derogatory term "Meo"--a word that up until 1973 had been ubiquitously used in text books, journalistic reports, government documents and general usage to describe the Hmong.
Wilburt Garrett (also known as Garrett, W.E.) would write in his memoirs on the significance of his meeting with Dr. Yang Dao while researching for the monumental article, "The Hmong of Laos: No Place To Run" (National Geographic Magazine, January 1974).
Dr. Yang Dao had insisted that the terms 'Meo' and 'Miao' were both unacceptable, explaining to Garrett that his people had always called themselves by the name 'Hmong', which Dr. Yang Dao defined as meaning "free men."
"I promised Yang Dao I would [use the term Hmong]," Garrett wrote. "It's a small enough courtesy to pay this proud and independent people hounded by a devastating war."
This brief encounter and the release of Garrett's article in National Geographic would prove to be a colossal step forward for the Hmong who would forever be known to the world by their 'real' name. Scholars and journalists alike would take immediate action, ceasing to use the derogatory terms 'Meo' and 'Miao' in books, lectures and articles thereafter.
While the actual meaning of the word 'Hmong' would continue to be debated, the definition that Dr. Yang Dao gave to Garrett would become commonly accepted. Thus, as Dr. Yang Dao willed it in 1973, the Hmong would become a free people.
minyuam...@gmail.com
Dec 12, 2015, 3:46:58 PM12/12/15
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Txiv Vaj Ncuab,
Yog tham li koj tham ces kuj ua rau kuv muaj ib level of appreciation rau DYD thiab.
I would rather be call HMONG than meo.
So since 1973, Hmong have been FREE.....FREE at last.
Also, I am glad the word MONG have exit......so that cov hmoob ntsuab thiaj li tsis tshua tu siab, we peb Hmong have been excluding them since 1973. I felt that Dr. Thao make a point, using the word MONG to identify his group of Hmong nstuab.
An online dictionary describe have now acknowledge the word Mong, as have since identify it as A member of one of the largest subgroups of the Hmong. Many Mong, similiar to Hmong of Laos emigrated to the United States after the Vietnam War.
For now, it is my turn to make an impact on the HMONG/MONG community. Got to think hard and or work hard on some ideas that I can contribute to the Hmong/Mong history.
Thank you Txiv Vaj Ncuab....
Vaj Ncuab
Dec 12, 2015, 4:01:04 PM12/12/15
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On Saturday, December 12, 2015 at 12:04:14 PM UTC-6, minyuam...@gmail.com wrote:
Xyoo 1959 thaum Maj. Vang Pao ua Nai Kongphanh 10 (BI 10 Commander) mas Nplog tab meem ce Maj. Vang Pao ua Meo, cem tsis yog ib tug xwb tabsi tag Kong Phanh cem, muaj ib zaug muaj ib tug tub rog Nplog ua txuj qaug cawv thiab lam tau lam cem Maj. Vang Pao hu ua Meo. Maj. Vang Pao kom tsum, tsis tsum Maj. Vang Pao thiaj muab ntaus. Thaum ntaus lawm, Nplog thiaj tua Maj. Vang Pao nyob Khang Khay.
Xyoo 1960 thaum Maj. Vang Pao ntxeev Brig. Gen. Amkha Soukhamvong, cov Hmoob tuaj coob coob rau Tiaj Rhawv Zeb, Brig. Gen. Amkha hais tias, "Vang Pao why are there many Meo aroud here?"
May, 1975 thaum Dr. Yang Pao lawv cov Khana Moumtri mus East Germany, East Germany tus Foreign Minister thiaj tabmeeg cem Dr. Yang Dao hais tias, tim cov niag Meo no es Nplogteb thiaj muaj tsov muaj rog los tau 30 tawm xyoo.
May, 10, 1975 Tiao Souvanna Phouma thiaj hais tawm tias, cov Meo ua haujlwm tiv thawv lub teb lub chaws zoo kawg, tabsi yog tsis tshem cov Meo, mas peb Nplog yuav sib hais tsis haum. Vim li no Souvanna Phouma thiaj xaj kom Maj. Gen. Vang Pao nqi tuaj Vientiane, tuaj sablaj. Tabsi Lt.Gen. Kham Ouane Boupha the Deputy Minister of Defense, Lt. Gen. Bounpone Maktheprarak the Commander in Chief thiab Maj. Gen. Phasouk S. Rasaphak the Chief os Staff order tub rog coob li coob mus zov tshav davhlaus Wattai thiab zov Naiphone Vaj Pov tsev tom Nahaidieo.
Vim muaj tus saub Txiaj Nruam Kwm chem, vim Muaj Capt. Vang Nou (VP tus body guard) cheem thiab vim CIA (Jerry) cheem tsis pub Maj. Gen. Vang Pao nqi mus Vientiane es Pathet Lao thiab cov Nplog thiaj ntes tsis tau Naiphone Vaj Pov. Txhob yog li ntawd ces Hmoob txoj kev quaj ntsuag los txog Hmoob thaum May 11, 1975 lawm.
2003 thaum cov Cob Fab nyob Phou Lak Pha Phai los tua Lak Sem (Lak Khai) Nplog tus Chao Khoueng (Gnanang Bounpheng Momphosay thiaj cem hais tias, cov Meo yog cov los tua.
Kuv, koj peb yog Hmoob, peb yeej ntshaws kom Hmoob muaj kev ywj siab (Free man) li Dr. Yang Dao hais tiag.
Vaj Ncuab
Dec 12, 2015, 4:08:05 PM12/12/15
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Dr. Nyaj Zeb Thoj sau Mong los nws sau li lub suab Hmoob Leeg (Moob Leeg) xwb. Vim Hmoob tsis muaj ntawv es yuav nrhiav tus tsiaj ntawv kom sau tau 2 yam lus tsis muaj es thiaj sau Moob xwb. Tom ntej no (future) ntshai yuav tau siv tus ntawv Phaj Hauj thiaj sau tau meej, twm tau ua Hmoob Dawb Hmoob Leeg.
minyuam...@gmail.com
Dec 12, 2015, 6:18:25 PM12/12/15
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txiv vaj ncuab....
hmoob lucky kawg. zoo siab peb tsis quaj ntsuag.
txawm li cas los kuv txaus siab yus los yog hmoob.
koj xav li cas txog qhov vp claim tias vim muaj nws es peb thiaj tau tuaj tim usa no? is this claim true or false.
ib tug professor hais tias its false...she state that we are here in the usa because of the refugee act.
whose right?
hmoob lucky kawg. zoo siab peb tsis quaj ntsuag.
txawm li cas los kuv txaus siab yus los yog hmoob.
koj xav li cas txog qhov vp claim tias vim muaj nws es peb thiaj tau tuaj tim usa no? is this claim true or false.
ib tug professor hais tias its false...she state that we are here in the usa because of the refugee act.
whose right?
me
Jan 17, 2016, 2:46:44 AM1/17/16
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Minyuam,
Academia lives by a reference and peer-review system. So, if a piece of material becomes a reference source, then all successive works that use the reference source will propagate the information contained therein downstream, even if the information in the said source is factually wrong. Nobody would bother to verify the reference source to ensure fact and truth.
Years ago when Professor Christopher Fong (UC) authored a high school history textbook for California, he depicted Hmong soldiers (Special Guerrilla Units) as mercenaries, which was incorrect. I wrote the professor a letter, presented my argument and advised him to correct the mistake. He was not at fault. He did not do it out of malice or negligence. He followed a universally accepted standard of practice, except the information was simply wrong at source. He agreed with me and gave assurance for correction of the mistake in the next edition. If my memory serves me right, I posted my letter in SCH.
If we see something published in public domain that are incorrect and harmful to Hmong, it is incumbent upon us to intellectually challenge it. This is the way to right any wrong.
In the case of Dr. Pob Zeb Thoj, there was a long and exhaustive debate on the issue in SCH during the time of Proposition AB78. It seemed the Dr. had picked the wrong fight. However, it was a learning experience for him and all of us. We fought over the name or spelling "Hmong or Mong", which resulted in both Hmoob Dawb and Moob Lees being eliminated from AB78 while "Southeast Asians" took our place and the credit. As the old saying goes: "we hunted, they got meat." Talk about dumb, nothing can beat this.
Teev
Academia lives by a reference and peer-review system. So, if a piece of material becomes a reference source, then all successive works that use the reference source will propagate the information contained therein downstream, even if the information in the said source is factually wrong. Nobody would bother to verify the reference source to ensure fact and truth.
Years ago when Professor Christopher Fong (UC) authored a high school history textbook for California, he depicted Hmong soldiers (Special Guerrilla Units) as mercenaries, which was incorrect. I wrote the professor a letter, presented my argument and advised him to correct the mistake. He was not at fault. He did not do it out of malice or negligence. He followed a universally accepted standard of practice, except the information was simply wrong at source. He agreed with me and gave assurance for correction of the mistake in the next edition. If my memory serves me right, I posted my letter in SCH.
If we see something published in public domain that are incorrect and harmful to Hmong, it is incumbent upon us to intellectually challenge it. This is the way to right any wrong.
In the case of Dr. Pob Zeb Thoj, there was a long and exhaustive debate on the issue in SCH during the time of Proposition AB78. It seemed the Dr. had picked the wrong fight. However, it was a learning experience for him and all of us. We fought over the name or spelling "Hmong or Mong", which resulted in both Hmoob Dawb and Moob Lees being eliminated from AB78 while "Southeast Asians" took our place and the credit. As the old saying goes: "we hunted, they got meat." Talk about dumb, nothing can beat this.
Teev
yag...@gmail.com
Jan 18, 2016, 4:39:04 PM1/18/16
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menyuam...puas yog ma> the way to write moob is hmong? tejzaum koj hais yuamkev lawm pob?
the way to write moob (its its true pronunciation)...is still moob. the way to write "hmoob" is still hmoob.
hmong, mong are just latinized terms for moob and hmoob...isn't this the case?
however, it is true that pepole do consider "hmong" as the dominate written name (on record) for hmoob and moob....
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