Laos's Dam Project - Why?
vimhlub
Please help me understand why Lao is building Nam Theun 2? According
to the story below, the facts are:
1. Thousands of people have been removed;
2. Thousands of wildlife have been destroyed;
3. Thousands of acres of fertile land are now under water;
4. Thousands of people downstream from the dam will suffer due to
erosion and lack of access to fisheries
Get this: The dam costs 1.45 BILLION dollars to build but will only
generate 2 BILLION dollars over 25 years...And 95 percent of the
electricity generated will be shipped to Thailand.
What does that mean? Laos can make electricity but its people will be
in the dark for 25 years?
It doesn't make any economic sense. If Laos put 1.45 Billion dollars
in the bank, in 25 years, would that not make more than 2 Billion
dollars?
Lao officials stated that they plan to use the generated revenues to
reduce poverty. Why subject Lao citizens to hunger (no fish and no
farms) and poverty just hoping to rescue them in 25 years?
God save Laos.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laos's largest dam behind schedule: company
Heavy rains delayed the movement of equipment to the site in central
Laos. -AFP
Mon, Jun 01, 2009
AFP
HANOI, June 1, 2009 (AFP) - Laos's largest infrastructure project, the
Nam Theun 2 hydropower development, is behind schedule but the power
company said Monday it remains hopeful that the lost time can be made
up.
Logistical problems in a heavy wet season caused "significant delays"
late last year to completion of electro-mechanical works inside the
power station, said Aiden Glendinning, spokesman for the Nam Theun 2
Power Company.
Heavy rains delayed the movement of equipment to the site in central
Laos on the Nakai plateau, where it is being built on the Nam Theun
river, a tributary of the Mekong.
"We've constructed lots of roads but it still can be tricky in the wet
season," he said from Laos. Efforts were made this year to recover
the time lost but "while some ground has been regained, there are
still delays in the schedule," Glendinning said, adding the
contractors remain committed to meeting the December 15 deadline.
No official statement on the estimated completion date will be made
before a board meeting early next month, he said.
The World Bank-backed development required about 8,000 workers
operating on 14 separate construction sites spread over 200 kilometres
(124 miles). Slight delays on a project of such a size and complexity
"would not be unusual," the spokesman said.
Relocation of 6,301 villagers to make way for the project's reservoir
was finished last June, he said, and the 450-square kilometer
reservoir is now at about 90 percent of capacity.
After years of opposition from environmentalists, work on the 1.45-
billion-dollar Lao-French-Thai project began in November 2005. It will
have a generating capacity of 1,070 megawatts.
About 95 percent of production will be sold to Thailand, earning Laos
revenues estimated at almost two billion dollars over 25 years, which
the communist country pledged to spend on poverty reduction.
Critics said villagers were resettled to less fertile areas and
expressed concern for the impact turbid river waters and erosion will
have on fisheries and communities living downstream from the country's
largest dam.
Jim
let alone the proper equipments to undertake such monumental task?
They can't even fix a fucking traffic lights that have bad
transformers. Here's how it breaks down to...Over 3/4 of the money
generated will be used to pay for outside companies over the 25 years.
1/4 of it will be in the pockets of the elite" thugs. The people is
just part of the propaganda to blind the medias. If LAOS WAS
SERIOUSLY about lifting the poverty level of its people....you don't
fucking need a few dams to do it.
jim
On Jun 3, 11:06 am, vimhlub <vimh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Friends and Lao officials,
>
> Please help me understand why Lao is building Nam Theun 2? According
> to the story below, the facts are:
>
> 1. Thousands of people have been removed;
> 2. Thousands of wildlife have been destroyed;
> 3. Thousands of acres of fertile land are now under water;
> 4. Thousands of people downstream from the dam will suffer due to
> erosion and lack of access to fisheries
>
> Get this: The dam costs 1.45 BILLION dollars to build but will only
> generate 2 BILLION dollars over 25 years...And 95 percent of the
> electricity generated will be shipped to Thailand.
>
> What does that mean? Laos can make electricity but its people will be
> in the dark for 25 years?
>
> It doesn't make any economic sense. If Laos put 1.45 Billion dollars
> in the bank, in 25 years, would that not make more than 2 Billion
> dollars?
>
> Lao officials stated that they plan to use the generated revenues to
> reduce poverty. Why subject Lao citizens to hunger (no fish and no
> farms) and poverty just hoping to rescue them in 25 years?
>
> God save Laos.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ກາສາລາວ
cwjmem
generations to pay for it. The true benefit of this is for the idiots
of few on the top of LPDR government. The rest can not drink water
from these dams for pennies. Furthermore, turn the whole god-given
paradise into lakes, shrink farming lands.
thanouxay
and just notice that: US $ 2 billions are:
Royalties, taxes and dividends increasing from US$25 M to US$140
M per year, with a total of US$2,000 M over the 25 year concession
period ( as from 2010, 7% to 9% of the national budget )
The rest you can find all the answers in the link.
Read carefully before showing you ignorance.
Sok dee
On Jun 3, 6:06 pm, vimhlub <vimh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Friends and Lao officials,
>
> Please help me understand why Lao is building Nam Theun 2? According
> to the story below, the facts are:
>
> 1. Thousands of people have been removed;
> 2. Thousands of wildlife have been destroyed;
> 3. Thousands of acres of fertile land are now under water;
> 4. Thousands of people downstream from the dam will suffer due to
> erosion and lack of access to fisheries
>
> Get this: The dam costs 1.45 BILLION dollars to build but will only
> generate 2 BILLION dollars over 25 years...And 95 percent of the
> electricity generated will be shipped to Thailand.
>
> What does that mean? Laos can make electricity but its people will be
> in the dark for 25 years?
>
> It doesn't make any economic sense. If Laos put 1.45 Billion dollars
> in the bank, in 25 years, would that not make more than 2 Billion
> dollars?
>
> Lao officials stated that they plan to use the generated revenues to
> reduce poverty. Why subject Lao citizens to hunger (no fish and no
> farms) and poverty just hoping to rescue them in 25 years?
>
> God save Laos.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
vimhlub
> just found this info online:http://www.namtheun2.com/
I still cannot understand how this project will benefit Laos if it
will only generate ALMOST $2 Billion in the span of 25 years. The
site you reference stated that relocation of Lao citizens will
continue for several years. What does "several" mean? 2 years? 10
years or more?
How can $2 Billion in the span of 25 years eradicate poverty? Why
leave Lao citizens in the dark (without electricity) for 25 years?
samph...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
And the Lao Ambassador to the U.N., Yong Chanthalangsy, the de facto
and official Lao government internet junkie, writes from his Geneva,
Switzerland desk...this time admonishing all SCH and SCL participants
on whether they know how to read.
"Read carefully before showing you ignorance," scolded the Lao
Ambassador Yong. I wonder why Yong decided NOT to write in Lao
anymore? Oh, he wants everyone to read this message, yeah, that's
right. Two types of propaganda, one for everyone, and one just for his
Lao People's Revolutionary Party insiders in the West.
By the way, how's the IPhone from PXL4LIFE working? If Yong was a U.S.
official, I'm sure the calls on that phone are as good as public
record. And now that Yong has been at the U.N. post for a month, he
can buy 20 IPhones, or by the time he received his next month's
salary, buy a brand new care...if he wants to...he said.
Sigh...the online behaviors of the new Lao Ambassador to the
U.N...only under the Lao PDR could such reality exist...no matter how
painful to witness.
listh...@yahoo.com
Vimhlub,
Nam Theun 2 is just of the thousand project LPDR gave out to other
countries. Jim is absolutely right. Our Hmong Team was at Nam Theun 2
and filmed all the sick fishes, one of the many animals that were sick
because of the LPDR Nam Theun 2. The fishes were half death. Their
skin are gone but they still alive.
Samething happen to bird, people, tree. None can stop the LPDR from
selling tree, dam, water, gold, mines, sperms, fishes, human and all
natural resources from Laos, unless the Hmong do something about it.
The rest of the White Lao, Red Laos, Low Lao, and middle Lao can not
do anything to the LPDR.
The Hmong can stop it and we will.
Hmong Freedom II, LPDR's enemy
cwjmem
1. Add another 100 years of debts to many Lao children to pay
2. 95% of the electricity is going to Thailand
3. At least 150 millions dollars for 25 years go pay back for the loan
fro this dam project
4. turn hundred of thousands of agricultural areas to a huge lake.
5. At least 10 million dollars for maintenance and equipment/
transmission lines to reach its potential users (pay for foreign work
contract)
So how much do LPDR idiots of few on the top think that this dam will
generate the income to lift its people form poverty? Can this dam
pays for itself for the next 25 years? I am afraid that it will help
this commie nation to lift itself from the poverty. The people
benefit the most are the ones that were bribed at the initial stage
with million of dollars from Thai side. These LPDR idiots got their
monies and so rich even before this dam project got started and half
of this profits will end it up in the idiots of few on top....such as
YONG.
toojntsais
the Langxang Kingdom. We are so afraid to change, that's why we are so
behind other nations. My question is, will the people live in the area
be more prosper or same old in 25 years? I think they will more likely
to remain the same old or suffer more, given the nowadays situation.
But after 25 years if the dam is still working as the Namngerm dam then
it's an advantage, if those people can be relocate and live the same old.
Having said so, it doesn't mean that I don't care about the people live
in there and the lost of land due to flood and etc... But we are now
lived in the world of energy hungry, whoever can produce energy in the
long term will more likely to face less competition in developing.
samph...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Cwjmem, what poverty are you talking about? The Lao Ambassador to the
U.N., Yong Chanthalangsy is adamant that "millions" of Lao people are
in the "middle class" and are richer than "ANY" Laonork in the West.
Therefore, Laos does not have poverty!
Additionally, at the end of the day, the people really benefitting the
most from the dam, won't be the average "lower class" Lao citizens. It
will be international financial institutions, foreign companies,
foreing governments and their citizens, AND most importantly, Yong's
so-called "middle class" citizens (code word for a small class of
elite government bureaucrats and high ranking members of the Lao
People's Revolutionary Party like himself, and up to the totalitarian
chain of command).
If the first dam, also built by foreigners before the Lao PDR came to
power, and which has been under their care since...is any indication
of progress for Laos, this new one won't be much different. The
equations for the beneficiaries and players remain much the same,
thereby almost guaranteeing similar outcomes.
cwjmem
That's right. LPDR idots of few on the top of LPDR government allow
foreigners to eat, pee, and sh..t on this god-given lands of
beauties, and Lao citizens will have to pay for the consequence of the
stupid decisions. Foreigners are the builders, loaners, contractors,
equipment suppliers, so they will have their perpetual incomes from
maintaining these dam projects. Laos will be nothing but the land of
experiment and use, just like Afganistan, their lands are being
used for European and Americans to test the new war machines and
weapons.
dawb...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Lao Government has a vision plan to make many dams allover the country
to solve some poverty of 6 millions Lao papulation and develop
economic for better lives of Lao people. But when all those dames are
completed the government will gradually collect monthly money to the
government own pocket and pay debt only. The poor people do not see
any penny, but they lost rice fields, homes, and land which are belong
to them. The government must remove many districts and cities before
they are started to do the projects. Do you think the poor people or
government will receive the benefit?
samph...@gmail.com
as you say, because that means there's room for them to learn and grow
and become something they were not before, as a people and as a
nation.
But, the fact remains that it's NOT because they're "idiots." Indeed
they are quite clever and resourceful, and they know exactly what they
are doing, and are quite intent on their every action with wide open
eyes, without fear of the karma via their belief in Buddhsm, or even
the Communist Manifesto that they pretend to belief...all of which
means that their policies have been well calculated for maximum gain
for the enrichment of the selected class of elites who hold power and
influence over the masses.
To perpetuate this system, and especially being a poor and landlocked
nation is an advantage because you escape the scrutiny of
international pressure and condemnation...they are relying on a
tightly controlled, secretive, one-party political regime.
So, in order for any ordinary Lao to be part of that hope, that wealth
and prosperity, they would have to become part of The Party, make
their way into upper echelon of the Lao PDR bureucratic system and the
even smaller group of party elders.
The new Ambassador to the U.N. is living proof that their system works
according to the purposes they have defined...and he is quite proud to
admit being part of the ruling "middle class" of Lao who are in fact
wealthier than "ANY" Laonork in the West. I believe Yong when he said
so himself...and it could only mean that Yong is actually a multi-
millionaire. Therefore, it is then easy to conclude that his party
bosses must be worth billions.
The desparity of poverty and wealth among the masses in Laos is
probably not as stark and pronounced as in North Korea, where leaders
like Kim Jong IL eat $100,000 plates of caviar, drink $250,000 bottles
of Cognac, drive $500,000 Rolls Royce...all the while 99% of the
masses live on a little more than just $1 a day. I'm sure Yong aspires
to be like Kim Jong IL, or at least live his lifestyle....and Laos
doesn't even have to test nuclear weapons to get the world's attention
and blackmail them...all he has to do is surf the web, spread some
propaganda here and there, and inch his way up to the top of the Lao
People's Revolutionary Party...and all the riches of the world will be
his.
So much for Communism. Lenin's ghost will be haunting, indeed.
laophuan
you don't because your mind is reverse, Namtheun dam will benefit
Lao like Hoover dam benefited Las Vegean...
vimhlub
Do you know how Hoover Dam benefits Las Vegas? It doesn't appear that
Las Vegas sells its electricity at 5 cents on the dollar while leaving
its residents in the dark. Please tell how Laos and Las Vegas are
compared?
Jim
Namtheun will benifts Laos? WHAT A FUCKING JOKE!!! I'd have beleive
you if you said..."Namtheun would benifits the few elite" thugs"!
jim
thanouxay
Anything benificial to Laos and its people will go against the
interest of this group. Lets continue to strenthen our progress and
let see how they will hectically react to our offensive. We are not
only on offensive in this forum but on the terrain, we are victorious
on all aspects... Almost all mobile phinong Hmong came out and joined
the Government projects to fight against poverty and to go for rural
development. Less there are misled peoples, more this group will come
out and cry... More the hydro dams are completed, more mining project
are operational more there will be job for the former ChaoFa and less
this group can play fool... Just imagine that Phou Bia mining is more
and more active and dynamic in ereas not only on Phou bia but also at
Phou Hair, Muang Pek, Xieng Khouang province. You may notice that they
run against our successes on those two sectors just because those are
the two sectors we are the most successful in desenclaving the hiding
areas... You may also notice that Listhoj1 is mad just because we are
victorous.
Let them go, we are victorous and will will continue on working hard
to get everybody out and then they will dye down in the near future.
Just imagine that security is everywhere and on every road. No more
embush and no more plundering and killing of innoncents along every
road from 2006... Let make sure that the bandits are wipe out and let
continue to take care of our innoncent phinongs Hmong.
Sok dee
samph...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I suppose Yong isnow pretending to forget already that he claims to
be part of, or even above the "millions" of Lao people who are "middle
class" and are richer than "any" Laonork in the West....all because of
the very capitalist ideas like this dam and other projects.
And if continual denial that there isn't any fighting going or, or the
very existence of internal insurgents...isn't enough, the Lao
Ambassador to the United Nations, OFFICIALLY now has offered the
latest international threat:
"Let make sure that the bandits are wipe out."
vimhlub
I hold no grudge against Lao successes (if any). I do not think that
building dams at tremendous human and capital costs and then selling
the electricity and other Lao natural resources for pennies on the
dollar to foreign countires can be call successes. The reason for the
revolution was so that foreigners can stop exploiting Laos. But now,
it appears that Laos has opened up itself for more exploitation than
ever.
I merely ask for a simple list of the benefits that the Dams can bring
to Laos and it appears you have little good things to say about the
dams. Exterminating "bandits" and killing innocent people are not
good reasons for selling out Laos, less for flooding Laos.