NTR for Lao PDR Is Wrong!!!!!
Mying's
friends in Washington, D.C. in recent weeks have argued that if
Congress believes trade will promote democratic change in China, then
why not adopt the same policy for the Lao PDR? Here is why: the LPDR
is not China.
The argument that American investment will democratize China has
itself been
wildly oversold. Beijing is doing everything in its power to dampen
the impact of private investment: placing stringent control on the
Internet (all users must register with the Public Security Bureau),
and most recently declaring that it will insert "party cells" into
every private business that operates in China. China is also tracking
down military officials and bureaucrats who have committed in frauds
and conducted illegal military operations such as selling concealed
weapons to terrorists and drugs.
But regardless of how one feels about permanent normalized trade with
China, there is simply no case to be made that investment would
democratize the Lao PDR.
The Lao PDR has undertaken none of the market reforms that China has
in recent
years; there is no private property, and there are no entrepreneurs
with whom
to do business. The post Keysone regime maintains power by controlling
every
single aspect of Laotian life. Currently, there are thousands of
Hmong - one of Laos' largest ethnic minorities stranded in the jungle
and closed military zones who have no access to food, access to
education, access to medical care, and bottomline - access to basic
civilization. The Lao PDR also denounced the U.S. House Resolution
402 and rejected all requests made by the United Nations and Amnesty
International to monitor human rights progress in Laos.
This permits the Lao PDR to stifle any and all dissent. Any Laotian
daring to say the wrong thing or seing as a threat, by the Lao PDR
standards, loses his or her job if not his or her life. Anyone
refusing to spy on a suspect of any resistent movement is denied basic
education. A Laotian or student daring to organize an opposition group
goes to the Lao PDR gulag without due process.
American investment cannot and will not change any of this. It cannot
empower
individual Laotians, or give them independence from the regime,
because foreign
investors in the Lao PDR cannot do business with private citizens.
They can do
business only with the regime.
It is illegal in the Lao PDR for anyone except the regime to employ
workers. That means that foreign investors cannot hire or pay workers
directly. They must go to the LPDR regime's employment agency, which
picks the workers. The
investors then pay the Politburo party members in hard currency (cash)
for the workers, and the regime pays the workers in worthless Kip.
Those who advocate the granting of NTR speak in broad terms about
using NTR as
investment to promote democracy in Laos. However, I challenge them to
explain
exactly how, under this system, investment can do anything to help the
Laotian
people.
The proponents of NTR crowd should drop its rhetoric about promoting
democracy and be honest: the one reason for their push to grant NTR to
the Lao PDR is to
pander to well-intentioned Laonork and fewer U.S. officials, who are
misled by the opportunists into believing that going into business
with a bankrupt land-locked Communist land is an investment to western
educated Laonork, a solution to the oppressed people and even to the
Hmong stranded in the jungle.
Whoever has convinced the Lao people that their salvation lies in
trade with the Lao PDR has sold them a bill of goods. Laos is
desperately poor, barely able to feed its own Communists soldiers,
much less to save the oppressed.
The Lao PDR wants the American NTR granted because he is desperate for
hard
currency to fuel its military and become more repressive toward the
good people of Laos.
After the Soviet Union collapsed and Moscow's subsidies ended, the Lao
PDR turned to some European countries, Australia, Canada and Vietnam
investors to keep his Communist system afloat. Now it wants American
investors to do the same. We must not allow that to happen.
Unfortunately, a few U.S. officials in Washington are all too willing
to give the regime what it wants. At the least they should stop
pretending that they are doing this to promote democracy and American
values for the Lao people. They are doing the opposite. If Former
President Ronald Reagan were alive, he would shook his head so many
times and told them to just struck down this old little Communist fool
Lao PDR.
I urge the good citizens of Laos both inside and abroad to just burn
down those Communist huts and start building the future with a much
more solid foundation.
I urge you to write to your congressman. All you have to do is refer
them to H.R. 402; the bill speaks for itself. All we need to do is
keep beating on a drum on the already established spring board - H.R.
402. Soon Laos will become the new and most prosperous kingdom again
in Southeast Asia.
Mying
Her Lao
its people, IS RIGHT.
The rationale/argument for NTR for LAOS --- not for the LPRP (although
I admit the LPDR/LPRP wants LAOS and itself to be the exact same thing,
but LAOTIANS know, though they can NOT voice their knowledge, they
are NOT the same thing --- that rationale/argument for the NTR for
LAOS is this:
It is NOT that the NTR or any outsiders will change LAOS government,
especially the current REGIME (or any there after); but it is that
with the NTR, WTO, and other trading and communication, WEALTH and
EDUCATION and COMMUNICATION/TECHNOLOGY will FLOW in to LAOS, starting
its own "revolution" by helping the LAOTIANS being more aware, more
vigilante, more prone to think and act OUTSIDE the iron-fist parameters
set by the "correct leadership" LPRP as the only good, correct, and/or
harmonious way to think, to act, what-not.
NTR and other such are EMPOWERING acts and tools. By themselves, they
will not do any thing, even if the LAOTIANS per capita income shall
approach the USA (hypotheticall) but they still believe that the LPRP
is the glorious machine, the exclusive pseudo political regime that
makes that possible.
On the other hand, the HOPE here is:
If and/or when the Laotians are well fed, when they have more leisure
to think where to walk, waht to talk about, how, why, when, where all
by themselves, without big benevolent brother observing them --- that
they, on their own accord, would DEMAND that their government
VOLUNTARILY REFLECT both their individual as well as group concensus
thoughts and yearnings (by becoming a REPRESENTATIVE governance system,
instead of this benevolent autocratic regime) or that it will be
FORCEABLY, if necessary, removed.
It is true, alas, that communist LAOS and communist China are NOT the
same thing. LAOS could be a DYNAMIC society, since it is so small.
China is a VICTIM of its long, autocratic, paternalistic past. You
can talk to any slightly intelligent Chinese --- both inside & outside
of China and they will tell you this: These communist system is just
the LATEST VICTIM, yeah, the latest VICTIM, of the over-all Chinese
paternalistic nonsense, but a nonsense taht is rooted so deeply in its
people's psychology, the masses of them, along with the most ambitious,
will never let this paternalistic mentality go,,,
LAOS history is roughly only about 400 years older than America's, and
so it is young enough a country, a society, to undergo dyanism that
China and the Chinese people will never hope to undergo.
Hawj Lauj
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
drsouk
everybody even the us ambassador and vp want ntr for laos, except the
(happy) few persons (notably hmongs) in the states. anyway lpdr is the
winner: if they have it is good for the money and the political line, if
they have not it it is the fault of its ennemy and lao people must hate the
hmongs! you said "ntr for lao pdr is wrong" i say "ntr for lao pdr is
intelligent, even if you are the enemy of lpdr!"
lion...@yahoo.com
I just hope Dr. Yang Dao is reading this, and of course will have his
own arguments about granting NTR for his boss. Sometime I wonder why
such a prominent Hmong leader, as Yang Dao, still supporting this
communist regime, where as we speak thousands of his people are
starving and dying without any sign of cooperation from this regime.
For many-years Dr. Yang Dao has been silent about the priority of his
people needs and yet when comes to supporting his Lao communist
regime, it is always his top agenda. When comes to a politician point
of view, I can understand it, but there's time you need to set aside
your personal issue. I have many Hmong friends who were very proud of
what Dr. Yang Dao had accomplished for Hmong, but also expressing
hostile feelings toward his political motivations.
frdmf...@hotmail.com
the NTR, it's going to happen". The big NTR wheels are in motion and
by the next fiscal year, Lao would most likely gets it.
I strongly agree with what you said in the paragraph below, Myin.
Like we've been saying all along, it's gotta start from within.
With regards, Joe
Ntsuabxwm
Give the little tiny communist Lao a free trade (NTR) is a question
mark for me, not that we left lao and we don't love them any more or
don't want to give them the free way of trade. There are lot of
concerns and trust about the LPDR.
If they really want NTR they have to proof to the world in the
positive way. We love Lao as of today have show some improvements,
lpdr have earn some good grade but needed lot more to show about human
right progressive, religion freedom and minority ethnic groups, even
lao people see it as tiny but we demend them to change for good. NTR
will give LPDR the keystone to get out of poverty. Are we as sure that
LPDR will deliver it to her citizens as will as a whole. Other than
that when LPDR getting rich, what they do next, likely to add more
power. Education are not their priority. If they focus on education
those 30 years will give lao out of poverty already or close to.
ntsuabxwm
"drsouk" <drs...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<ca8v1m$r9r$1...@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>...
M. M. Lee
For a man who is purportedly educated, your statement below is quite
revealing. "...if they have not it [NTR] it is the fault of its enemy
and lao people must hate the hmongs!" What kind of a statement is
this? This Lao mentality of "hating the Hmong" which appearantly is
not limited to the ignorant, racist Lao "ban nork" but also pervades
even educated Lao like you yourself is quite troubling. If there is
any sound reason that prevents Laos from obtaining NTR, it lies in the
Lao themselves--their bigotry and racist attitudes toward not just the
Hmong, but also the mountain minorities in general. Certainly, you as
an informed scholar must know that many Hmong in the US are pro-NTR.
In fact, you have just recently read, I'm sure, that Dr. Yang Dao is
among one of these individuals and he is as Hmong as they come, and
yet look at your blanket statement below about blaming the Hmong if
NTR does not go through.
Dr. Souk, as a scholar who is supposedly informed, please watch what
you say because your words carry meaning beyond your control. You know
that the history of Laos is very complex. The Hmong is merely a
minority who was caught in the struggles of the Lao right and left for
over fifty years and today, they continue to be the ones paying the
highest price for the ethnic Lao's inability to unite and form a
strong nation. In essence, Dr. Souk, the Hmong have been used by the
Lao left and the Lao right. And, even though the Hmong have played
significant roles on both the Lao left and right, they have never been
given credit by either side. For this reason, today, the Hmong
communists who have given blood and life to the Lao nation, live in
Laos as second class citizens. The victory of the Hmong communists is
no greater than the loss of the Hmong on the right as evidence by your
blanket statement below. The name Hmong bears the blamed for every of
Laos's ills ranging from poverty to insecurity and violence to not
having NTR. Certainly, you must know that the Lao themselves make up
the mass of people who are against giving Laos NTR so the fact that
you and the rest of the Lao will blame the Hmong is only evidence of
your own racism and bigotry. AND, if there is anything that prevents
Laos from obtaining NTR, it is this very racism and biggotry against
not just the Hmong, but the highland minorities in general.
As a Hmong, even though I am not against giving NTR to Laos, when I
look at the history of Laos and how the Lao government has responded
to the Hmong in the jungle in the last 30 years, I am deeply troubled.
I ask myself, how could a government not address its internal problems
and instead would deny that it exists as if by denying it, the problem
would just fade away? The first order of things is for Laos to face
its problems and to admit to the world that these problems exist. Laos
should have done this a long time ago. Then, the next order of
business is to announce public amnesty for the Hmong in the jungle.
The Lao government has to be mature enough to deal with this problem
in the manner that the Thai government dealt with the Hmong Thai
communist rebellion in Thailand in the 60s and 70s. Yet to this day,
the Lao government still lives in denial and has not taken any
concrete step to resolve this issue. They have made no public effort
to reach these Hmong, to learn about their grievances, and to address
them in a mature manner. Recently, rather than announcing an official
amnesty, the Lao government still chooses to operate under secrecy and
opaqueness in its effort to bring the Hmong in the jungle to the fold.
This secrecy has been a strong weapon for the exile political groups
in the US to argue against NTR, allowing for them to carry all sorts
of propaganda about Hmong being tortured, jailed, or killed after
having surrendered.
When you look at history carefully and examine how the Lao government
has failed to deal with its internal problems effectively, you will
know that the Hmong cannot be blamed for Laos not being awarded NTR by
the US Congress. Even after we've discounted the propaganda and the
political demonstrations of the exile political groups headed by
General Vang Pao, we still cannot dismiss the fact that Laos itself
suffers from lack of strong and effective political leadership. The US
government is simply not blind to this weakness within the Lao
governmental structure, and they will make their decisions about NTR
base upon this understanding of the Lao political structure and lack
of strong, effective leadership within its midst. If you, Dr. Souk,
think that a few powerless Hmong veterans (most of whom are not even
US citizens and have no voting rights) can dissuade the US government
from giving Laos NTR, then you have not gotten the real picture. You
need to examine the facts behind why the US awarded NTR to Vietnam,
its real enemy, ten years ago.
-M
"drsouk" <drs...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<ca8v1m$r9r$1...@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>...
supman
"M. M. Lee" <mlee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea31c499.04061...@posting.google.com...
Noiy
Mying:
On this NTR issue, we Laotians have been used as dumb Guinea pigs by
the US just for funny experiments without them having to seriously
respecting guidelines on good work or ethics originally set by
themselves. And we seem to enjoy it that way, don't we. For me, it has
become nonsensical whether or not NTR should be awarded or denied to
Laos, based on its human right records or dictator regime. There are
more than 170 countries around the world, all but 3 of them do not
have NTR with the US, including Laos. If you hate the LPDR to the gut
and want them to die no whether what, then you should be satisfied and
fight to keep it that way. But if you think about the dignity and
pride of Laos and Laotian people, then you should loosen up and think
again.
Are we Laotians so naive to believe that those crooks and corrupted
criminals in those African, Eastern European, Middle-Eastern, or Asian
countries have fulfilled all requirements of good god-given behavior
dictated by the US before being awarded NTR? Has any of those
countries had the opportunity to be bombarded with millions of tons of
bombs, many of them remain unexploded and keep killing innocent people
to this day, like Laos?
Stop all those craps that Laos is not ready for NTR because of this
and that and it will not promote democracy in Laos! It's like saying
we are too dumb and short-sighted to get together and use NTR as a
means to help Laos and Laotian get a brighter future. The truth is,
unlike most other advanced nations, we keep fighting each others even
when it comes to things that can benifit the country's future. We are
easily divided and conquered. This has been the case since the last
2-3 centuries. That's one of the main reasons we are behind others.
For me, the administration should do the right thing, and that is to
grant NTR to Laos without further delay. Otherwise, it should feel
embarassed, hypocritical, and irresponsible if it denies NTR to Laos
on the basis that the latter has not done enough to merit having such
a status or NTR this will not promote democracy in Laos.
noiy
Akira
will make us richer then ever before, we have some connection with VIP
so we can offer them the better opportunities to the newly developed
NTR for them. Everyone knows it money can buy anything in Laos –only
ignorance people survive in Laos.
Anyway, please help out anyway you can to push this through so my
family can lives wealth, and most people don't care much about poor
people any way --that's reality.
kop-chai-lailai
lion...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:<5adcade1.0406...@posting.google.com>...
drsouk
i'm not racist, my friend yang dao will testify! "hate the hmongs because
they arrest the ntr for laos" is that i often hear from lao nay, not that i
said. anyway i think that it is absolutely a negative attitude to try to
stop ntr for laos.
Her Lao
power, not li'l people carrying stupid signs in front of congressional
halls, pushing and shoving people/supporter of ntr in the streets!
Hmong and Lao (too, not just Hmong) who are anti-NTR can shout, scream,
demonstrate, or even kill pro-NTR people, but they can NOT, physically,
monetarily, or legally stop ANY THING that the Congress decides to
do FOR OR WITH any country in the world.
The responsibility --- no, the culpability --- as to why LAOS (as a
country, TRULY with goodhearted, generous, and colorful people) has
not gotten the NTR and other concessions from America , despite the
"fact" that the two countries have "unbroken" diplomatic ties "all
these years" MUST LIE SQUARELY on the shoulder of THE RULERS OF
LAOS, this totalitarian regime which DECREES ITSELF "THE CORRECT
LEADERSHIP" (the benevolent, the peace lover, the democratic republic,
and the other neauseating labels) ,,,,
It is this REGIME and this regime, ALONE, that will take (that has
taken) credit for ANY AND ALL prosperity LAOS people have worked hard
to achieve.
It is this REGIME, the LPRP/LPDR, alone, that need to answer to its
good Laotian people of many stripes, of many different ideas, of many
different cultures and wants --- but all who, let alone, will know,
who have already known, that unity and solidarity is not always
achieved at the barrel of a gune.
It must explain to the Laotians of LAOS as to why its just, democratic
republic and correct leadership is EITHER not capable or caring
enough to secure this LOW TARRIF treaty for LAOS, when practically
everyone else (except perhaps Iran, Cuba, Burma, and North Korea)
has it,,,
Do NOT blame OPPONENTS (of the LPDR/LPRP) who --- AS FREE CITIZENS
OF A FREER SOCIETY --- have lobbied against their OWN GOVERNMENT HERE
IN THE USA as to how it (the government) should or should not grant a
certain "right" (trading, arms, or any other kind of "right") to
a certain country which those "opponents" say have behave atrociously
towards certain groups of people (be they ethnic minorities or
political groups disagreeing with that government on political grounds
alone, a disagreement that is LEGALLY recorded as ILLEGAL and
counter-revolutionary, because THAT TOTALITARIAN regime has DECREED
ITSELF THE CORRECT GOVERNMENT, THE CORRECT LEADERSHIP),,,
Here, in America, there in France, and in ALL OF THE POST-INDUSTRIALIZED
SOCIETIES ON EARTH, we, as FREE CITIZENS who have SOME SAY in the
shaping of our government (even when those in charge disagree with
us and try to silence us) ---- we have a RESPONSIBILITY to STAND EVER
VIGILANT against our own REPRESENTATIVE government. We agree with it
when it is carrying out our wishes; we protest it when it is usurping
our consent, even if it is saying it is only doing that on our
behalf, like the current administration is doing, which, not only
most Americans but most of the world DISAGREE with,,,
But, yes, ULTIMATELY, we --- through the argument and the given of
NTR and other "tools" to LAOS --- we hope to help open our former
brethren in Laos eyes a bit, to the good, the bad and the ugly of
the world; we hope to help them help themselves, so they MAY, IF THEY
WANT, shape their government BETTER, change it entirely, if they
so desire, and not let a few thousand constipated and regressively
oriented men dictating to the entire country what is and what is not,,,
Giving the NTR to LAOS, as a country, therefore, is the most rational
argument of all, when bitterness, jealousy, ignorance, animosity, etc.
are removed from the equation,,,,
neohmong
Hmmmm...interesting comment. Yeah, let DYD defends himself.
NeoHong
lion...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:<5adcade1.0406...@posting.google.com>...
ceeb_v
It really does not matter you can say you do not approve, do not like,
nor do not agree NTR for Laos, you are not the decision makers. You
are not going to make the different to the government. You are just
an ordinary citizens living in the remote areas don't even know what
government is all about. So, the bottom line, the law makers in
Washingron, DC will make the decision to grant NTR for Laos. In fact,
they already made decision on this. We all have to understand that
this is the U.S. government decision. Obviously, the U.S. government
does not see what you see. They have better and broader vision to
govern the country where you live in. They see that giving NTR for
Laos is good for both sides. Of course, you see granting NTR for Laos
is not good for Hmong. Well, nothing is good for Hmong these days.
We all have to accept what given to us and move on. Against U.S.
policy does not give Hmong a country nor save Hmong at the Jungles..
It only makes Hmong's life harder and poorers.
You guys are here in this country enjoying richfull life here. While
those people in Laos are suffered, because you keep making the wrong
decision for them. You do not make life easier for the poor people in
Laos. Leave them alone, duds!
Ceeb
noi...@hotmail.com (Noiy) wrote in message news:<f207bd49.04061...@posting.google.com>...
Anti
strict on the Laos goverment. This mean we will have lawyer to
represent the prisoner and businesses and Laos can't control us
anymore or else doom to hell by the USA and the World. I will be able
to go live anywhere I wanted to or else I will defend my right against
the Laos losers.
Amen
noi...@hotmail.com (Noiy) wrote in message news:<f207bd49.04061...@posting.google.com>...
LeeRoy
Ne vous inquiètez pas, malgré vous supportez très mal que l'on ne soit pas
d'accord avec vous. Rien, d'ailleurs, ne peut vous faire changer d'avis.
Vous êtes un dialecticien brillant, et vous n'avez pas votre pareil pour
ramener une discussion à la case départ, sans que l'autre s'en aperçoive.
On sait bien que vous avez d'une intelligence tranchante, une extraordinaire
finesse d'analyse, laissez les hmongs penser comme ils veulent.
LeeRoy.
"drsouk" <drs...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:caae8q$rr7$1...@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr...
Pao
In this case, you can improve your cart with NTR but it is still
following the same ox!!! But some people argue that with a better
cart, the ox will be forced to change for the better - this is
probably the most delusional thought that any one can hold onto.
Why so?
An ox is an ox - What can you expect? Even with a computerised new
cart, it still follows the same ox!!! So, GIGO.
The solution is crystal clear... but not NTR.
Pao
"Her Lao" <hawj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<d8a83aa1f931dba5d45...@mygate.mailgate.org>...
> Yes, NTR for the Lao PDR is WRONG; but NTR for LAOS, the country and
> its people, IS RIGHT.
>
>> Hawj Lauj
drsouk
non je ne suis pas un dictateur, simplement je dis ce que j'en pense de
l'opposition au ntr. les hmongs pensent ce qu'ils veulent, je ne cherche pas
à imposer mes vues spécialement sur eux car nous discutons sur le forum sc
lao, si je postais sur sc hmong là oui vous pouvez me le reprocher. dans
votre communauté (je suppose que vous etes hmong) il y en a qui sont pour
(comme mon ami yang dao) et y'en a qui sont contre, il n'est pas interdit
d'exposer son opinion dans les limites de la convenance c'est à dire sans
insulte. les hmongs que je connais (amis ou non) m'ont souvent étonné par
leur dynamisme, leur courage et leur intelligence, qualités que partagent
certainement les hmongs opposants au ntr, mais la colère et l'esprit de
vengeance peuvent parfois obscurcir l'esprit, empêchant de voir la solution
positive pour tout le monde.
bucba
Yes, NTR for Laos is absolutely the right thing to do. Here are the
reasons.
Reason number 1. It would help create jobs for all Laos including
Laosoung.
2. It would help Laos farmers sell more of their good
if NTR is
grant to Laos because here in the USA we have enough
Laos that
will buy anything that made by Laos farm from bamboo
shoot to
dry buffalo skin which we love to eat and it goes
real well
with Lao Lao or johnny walker.
3. It would help ordinary Laos get to learn more about
Democrazy
which we someday want them to have but it has to
start from
within.
4. With NTR and more engagement from US it should help
Laos move
forward for betterness faster.
That was just some of the few example that would help benefit ordinary
Lao people. Don't worry LPDR will not get all the money and more gun
to kill Hmongs or other ethnic because the Americans aren't stupid to
do that. NTR will be kind of like a give and take kinda things. Why
the US wants to chose engagement with Laos, not the other way around
or grab LPDR by the neck and scream YOU CHANGE NOW at them. Here's
why, LPDR had listen and please the US from MIA issue to Opium. The
US knows that LPDR isn't well organize like it used to be. The US
knows with the right approach thing can changes. This is some good
new, recently LPDR had let Americans talk to ordinary Laos about
Democrazy system and how it works. Some of the LPDR officials also
had came to US to study first hand how Democrazy works. You see people
the wheel is turning. We as good Laonorks should help the wheel
turning some more or even go faster. Now back to Dr. Yang Dao. Why
he supported NTR for Laos? He supported NTR for Laos because he knows
that if Laos improve it minorities people's life will improve too. He
knows that Laos is the only country in SoutheastAsia that lets Hmongs
and other ethnic people be more, from high ranking officers to
Docters.
You don't see that in other Southeastasia countries, not even in a
Democrazy country like Thailand. He knows that Laos isn't so bad and
sure it has some human right problems but it can be fixed with the
right approach. Just don't try the grab them by the neck approach
cause it just won't works. Sokdee, Bucba007.
neohmong
I have nothing to say much but 100% agree with your thread. However,
it always left me a hard question that I keep asking myself, but it
can apply to everyonne in this audience and elsewhere. And that
question is: WHAT'S NEXT AFTER NTR IS GRANTED TO LAOS? May be just
naive mind, but I keep searching for the "ANSWERS of WHAT'S NEXT."
NeoHmong
songp...@yahoo.com (bucba) wrote in message news:<62d594fd.04061...@posting.google.com>...
ceeb_v
NTR for Laos is not cart nor Ox. Your comparizon is wrong. The world
has changed and so people made the world changes. And people changes
along with the world. Unfortunately, based on reading you threads, I
just do not see you change at all. May be you are like an OX
yourself. Life is just like a Medical Doctor. If you prescribe one
type of medicine to your patient and unfortunately that medicine does
not work, you have to change to different type of medicine too, right?
Ceeb
dr...@hmoob.net (Pao) wrote in message news:<bd07f89c.04061...@posting.google.com>...
ceeb_v
Lets be more serious on this subject (NTR for Laos). If we are so
serious about helping our motherland, we should all tell VP, neohome,
human wrong groups, people who cause troubles after troubles against
our people in Laos, Thailand, and in this country to stop immediately
before many more people will die, go to jail, and getting crazy.
The granting NTR for Laos is going to happen one way or another. If
not this presidency, the next one will push for happen again. So,
waste breath argument, why you think your decision will make
different?,
I strongly recommend that you all should prepare for the post NTR.
You need to come up good plan for the post NTR before too late.
Making decision for the poor people in Laos is wrong and wrong.
zab...@yahoo.com (Anti) wrote in message news:<e232d679.04061...@posting.google.com>...
HmoobNplog
Well said and I second your thought. Even VP has no choice. He has
to be in
favor of NTR to keep him alive for political reasons. Granting NTR to
Laos is a
good start in the right direction.
For those who oppose NTR to Laos, think about that no matter how bad
are some
of our children. When they ask for help (advise, food, money ...),
we, as parents, cannot deny their requests. We bad-mouth them but keep
giving them their need hoping that some day they will become better
persons. It is not for LPDR, but for all the people living in Laos.
Sincerely,
Hmoob Nplog
============================================
songp...@yahoo.com (bucba) wrote in message news:<62d594fd.04061...@posting.google.com>...
HmoobNplog
and there is nothing wrong with it. He is not alone to express such
thought. I always think that if US did not grant NTR to Laos, people
in Laos (specially our Lao Lum) and some Lao-Nork will blame on the
Hmong USA. It will also indirectly affect the hmong people in Laos.
Neohome will resurface and collect more moneys from hmong people in
USA. Hmong and Lao will have a long way to go to trust each other. I
agree with Dr. Souk that granting NTR to Laos is intelligent.
Dr. Souk, we will appreciate if you and your organization can donate
medical stuff or clothing to our newly hmong camp (came out from the
jungle). Let’s show to the world that Lao, Hmong, and all
minority groups can live together in peace. It will make a wonderful
example to see a Lao Dr. helping the poor Hmong in Laos.
Sincerely,
Hmoob Nplog
===============================================
mlee...@hotmail.com (M. M. Lee) wrote in message news:<ea31c499.04061...@posting.google.com>...
vangs...@yahoo.com
You are right .You should be a Dr. to prescribe the medecine to Dr. Pao .
Later.
cee...@yahoo.com (ceeb_v) wrote in message news:<5a24dfc9.04061...@posting.google.com>...
vangs...@yahoo.com
Most of us know you are good person , nevermind lee he is just
couldn't accept the thruth .
Later.
"drsouk" <drs...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<caae8q$rr7$1...@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>...
drsouk
i want to make something as you suggest, but my ngo is working in the south
(area savannakhet). anyway, i can ask lao ambassador of paris if we can send
something (clothes) to the lao soung.
LeeRoy
Merci de me bien faire comprendre de votre position, ce n'est pas
grave et je ne suis pas contre votre voie sur les hmongs, quand j'ai dit
laissez les hmongs penser comme ils veulent c'est-à-dire ignorez les. En
tout cas vous avez raison au NTR que l'on peut profiter en quelque sorte,
mais c'est les états unis qui en profitent le plus. Il y a une chose que
vous vous êtes trompé sur moi, je ne suis pas hmong, je suis un métis du
Laos, pas de sang mêlé d'hmong. Le nom LeeRoy c'est bien pour les
anglais/americains, c'est comme bac hamnoy ou bac la.
Je ne postais pas sur sc hmong là, je crois que oui c'est vrai la colère et
l'esprit de vengeance des hommes sont parfois un peu trop forts dans les
deux forums et on pert la tête amicale à faire la conversation positive.
Bon! Voilà c'est mon explication et j'espère que c'est clair, au plaisir de
vous lire encore une autre fois, amicalement.
LeeRoy.
"drsouk" <drs...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:cabc5a$8kv$1...@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr...
thovpab
I disagreed with your point of view that " you are not going to make
the different to the government". People will not make a different in
the LPDR country, but people do make a different to the governemtn in
this country. look at RH 402, did the congress passed this RH 402 with
no one behing it?. No,
thovpab
cee...@yahoo.com (ceeb_v) wrote in message news:<5a24dfc9.04061...@posting.google.com>...
drsouk
des hommes.
lion...@yahoo.com
All you people think you are soooooo…..smart. Many of you have PhDs,
MD, MS, BS on and on, so everyday you come to this forum scrambling
your brain, beating-up your nerves, and trying to dice sect every word
and every phrase just so you can out smart one another. Lets face the
truth, you AIN'T! Remember, Einstein never gets alone with other
people socially. Lets have a straight talk, who kicked us out of Laos?
The communist Pathe Lao and Viet Cong, of course and thank you very
much! Pathe Lao won the war by kicking the American out that is what
they wanted right! So why in the HELL they are begging the American to
help feed them? Well…hello! If you people are sooooo….smart why don't
you just ask Khamtai to stop begging the American and if they really
want NTR then go ask the Viet Cong congress for NTR. If you really
want NTR then improve your human right conditions and you will get NTR
other wise GOOOODBYE… SOLONG…ARIOYOS…
Mying's
Whenever I spoke about NTR, unequivocally I spoke about the Lao PDR
regime and its politburo party and elite's poor vision and inability
to intercept the U.S. trade relations - never against well intentioned
individuals and the beautiful, kind, and polite people of Laos. Some
of you are right with respect to a few of our Laonork leaders and
intellectals! Instead of risking their lives and putting their
integrity on a slipping slope by indiscriminately shaking hands with
the tyrants and lobbying congress to grant NTR for the LPDR, they
should use their resources and education by simply going about asking
what do the Lao people want?
Given there is so much doubt and speculation about what people,
particularly the exiled Lao in the U.S. really want, why not just ask
the ordinary folks in Laos of what they want instead of blundering
into danger by cooperating with the Lao PDR? Before asking why the
U.S. do not extend NTR to the Lao PDR, ask the people about the total
embargo imposed by the totalitarian state. The Lao people for 30 years
cannot trade with anyone; only the government trades; and it's so
repressive, it will not permit the poor ordinary people to participate
in the state's economic life. And when a Laotian daring to protest
the LPDR for free enterprise, democracy or religion - he/she becomes
the enemy of the state and goes to the Lao PDR prison with no due
process.
NTR will not only strengthen the Lao PDR Communist Regime but it will
create more corruption. People who have become the new entrepreneurs
in the streets of
Vientiane today are the leaders and elite groups of the Lao PDR's
single party, the Communist Party Officials of the New Rich, facing an
impoverished majority forbidden to own businesses - much worse than
those high ranking generals and ministers during the era of the last
Monarchy. Free-lance workers are hounded. The regime's police will
mistreat a blind man selling bamboo or ratten baskets.
To the LPDR state, the economy is a good mechanism for dominating
families and society. That's why the highest political leaders insist
that there will be no changes, not even when NTR is granted. This is
probably why the Ambassador to Laos has been remarking and barking on
a new speech. The flaw is: granting NTR under the current regime won't
solve the problems of the Lao people. There is no solution either by
maintaining it.
You can't reduce the Lao people's reality to a binary code of zeros
and ones, for example, `NTR Yes' and `NTR No.' That's the wrong way to
state the problem.
Put Laos' problems at the heart of U.S. policy like Afghanistan and
Iraq and attempting to link its solutions to changes is the
Lao-Americanization of our reality. But in order for this to work, we
need more lobbying in Congress and the U.S. States Department's
participation.
Normalized Trade on medicines and foods with Amnesty International,
the United Nations Human Rights Commission, and NGO's hould be lifted
at once to the Hmong in the jungle before we can even consider looking
at the possibility of NTR to Laos. You can't justify not granting
foods and medicines to these dying people by saying the Lao PDR needs
NTR first, because the LPDR is incapable of doing so. On the other
hand, those who say that investment and tourism are ways to promote
democracy become participants in an unfair order like, strengthening a
system that alienates its own people.
Those who respect self-determination must support the Lao people's
right to be consulted via referendum on fundamental issues: changes in
the law to guarantee unequivocally freedom of speech and the right to
assemble, the right to own and run businesses, amnesty for political
prisoners, and truly democratic election. These rights belong to
people because we are human.
We shall go on with our struggle, whether or not the Lao PDR governs.
We shall struggle whether Normalized Trade Relations to the Lao PDR
remains closed or is lifted. We shall struggle until freedom and
justice are brought to our people in our homeland. This should be the
Intellectual liberation movement worthy of us coming to America, not
truckling to tyrants.
Mying's
lion...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:<5adcade1.0406...@posting.google.com>...
> tso_...@yahoo.com (Mying's) wrote in message news:<6d7b8119.04060...@posting.google.com>...
Rhwbliag
Zoo siab uas tau nyeem koj cov lus pom (view points) txog NTR rau
Laos. Koj yog ib tus neeg muaj txuj thiab ntse kawg. Koj cov lus kuj
muaj tsamthawj kawg thiab. Li koj hais los yeej muaj chaw mus. Tabsis
kuv kuj tseem confuse kawg vim tias peb txawm tuaj tau 30 xyoo los peb
cov koomhaum daws tso haiv neeg Lostsuas/Hmoob twb tsis ruaj, tsis
khov thiab vammeej. Txawm peb yuav struggle npaum twg los yog peb tsi
muaj solid good thiab proper doctrine ces yeej pauv tsis ntxiv li.
Tshaj ntawd cov neeg tom hav zoo suav hnub suav hmo tuag li cov tsiaj
yam peb ua tsi tau ib yam dab tsi los pab lawv. Kuv tsi pom tias
struggling li koj hais saum no yuav pab tau lawv li cas hlo li. Peb
yim ua yim muaj kev pemsij ntxiv rau peb cov pejxeem tim no twb tsi
hais cov tim ub. Tej zaum kuv ruam dhau es thiaj tsi pom li nej cov
ntse xwb tab sis yog ua li niaj hnub no cov pawg kubxaj ua ces kuv
ntseeg hais tias txawm ua txog hnub peb tuag tas tu noob los xyov puas
yuav muaj kev kaj rau Hmoob/Lostsuas.
Anyhow I appreciate your view very much.
Rhwbliag
Rhwbliag
tias yog peb tsi tig rov los cob qhia peb ib tsoom kwvtij Hmoob kom
muaj necessary skills los zwm rau lub neej vammeej thiab kom lawv
txawj sib tw khwv noj khwv haus raws li lub neej vammeej mas txawm peb
yuav hais tau cai loj npaum twg rau peb haiv neeg taug los ntshai yeej
yuav pab tsi tau hlo li. Kuv xav tias qhov teeb meem loj tshaj mas yog
vim yus cov neeg tseem qus heev. Kuv tau pom thiab tau ntsib yus cov
neeg tig tawm tsam tej txoj cai uas tsim los povfwm lawv thiab pab
lawv. Kuv mus paub txog tej opportunity uas tseem fwv muab pub rau yus
cov neeg los lawv tsi quav ntsej. Lawv tsuas coj li lawv ib txwm coj
xwb. Tej no, kuv xav, yog major obstacles for our people.
Here is one example: Thaum kuv pab kwvtij tsiv Mouang Kasee mus nyob
rau Noon Hai, tseem fwv tau faib qua tsev rau lawv nyob. Tseemfwv yeej
muab lub zos ntawd tu muaj nrim tag huv tib si (sub-division similar
to here in the U.S.) Ib lub qua tsev twg muaj yuav laug ib acre
square. Tiab faib teb rau lawv ua tib si. Thaum lawv mus nyob ces lawv
tsi quav ntsej txog tej av uas tseemfwv faib ntawd. Lawv cia li mus ua
tsev li Hmoob ib txwm ua, ua ti ti- 2-3 yig nyob ib lot xwb. Tom qab
no muaj neeg los ntxiv ces tseemfwv tuaj txog thiab pom tias lawv tsi
siv cov av uas tau tu rau lawv tas ces luag thiaj muab cob rau lwm tus
nyob tag. Tom qab no yus tsev neeg huam vam tuaj ces mam li xav txog
yuav yuav av ntxiv ces tsi muaj lawm. Qhov twg los muaj tsw tag. Yuav
tau rho nyiaj yuav thiaj tau. Tsi tag li ntawd xwb tus Tojxeem uas
saib thaj tsam ntawd tuaj cuag kuv ib tus yawg thiab hais rau nws tias
nwg puas yuav ib qho av ntawm ntug kev nyob tsam ces nws tsev neeg
leej twg ho yuav xav ua luam ces tsi muaj chaw. Yawg los yeej tsi kam
lees yuav. Tseem hais tias muaj pluav tshauv dhau. Ntau xyoo dhau los
mam xeev xwm ces lig dhau. Tej teb uas tseemfwv faib rau los tsi tuav
ces luag muab rau lwm tus tag. Xeev xwm txog ces lig dhau.
Rhwbliag
Economist003
> A couple of misinformed U.S. Officials by the Lao PDR and their
> friends in Washington, D.C. in recent weeks have argued that if
> Congress believes trade will promote democratic change in China, then
> why not adopt the same policy for the Lao PDR? Here is why: the LPDR
> is not China.
>
Forget about NTR or WTO if these two issues should have some types
of POLITICAL STRING. We get it, it is OK. If we do not get it, it is
OK as long as
OUR NATIONAL SECURITY looks strong and secured. One thing readers have
to know is that USA is not Laos' LARGEST TRADING PARTNER.Mr Khamtai
should not LOOSE any SLEEP because of the pressure from U.S. congress
and U.S senate.
My young friend,I think you are DEADLY wrong when you said"The post
Keysone regime maintains power by controlling single aspect of Lao
life". Please, use the data and other physical evidences to support
your claim. If you look at the current TAX SYSTEM, labor law, and
other government regulation Laos is more free society than the United
States except only you CAN RUN YOUR MOUTH against this current
regime.Please, examine and analyze the existing laws and regulations
of PDR gvmnt.
Her Lao
> NTR will not only strengthen the Lao PDR Communist Regime but it will
> create more corruption. People who have become the new entrepreneurs
> in the streets of
> Vientiane today are the leaders and elite groups of the Lao PDR's
> single party, the Communist Party Officials of the New Rich, facing an
> impoverished majority forbidden to own businesses - much worse than
> those high ranking generals and ministers during the era of the last
> Monarchy. Free-lance workers are hounded. The regime's police will
> mistreat a blind man selling bamboo or ratten baskets.
Isn't THAT the way, one of the most effective ways, an illegit
regimes comes, eventually crushing down?, that is, when it is so
saturated with its own excrement (which it tells people, no, which
it demands that people collect it and treat it as gold),,,
NTR will not only strenghten the Lao PDR Communist Regime, but it
will also strenghten LAOS people, starting with the educated and
the business men and women who communicate, who trade, with
the outsiders --- both close and far away --- to make a living,,,
Communication (it all of its entirety, not just in any particular
field, which this little retarded regime prescribes to the land it
rules with an iron fist as the "correct" kind of thought) with the
"outside world" IS THE PREMIUM commodity, here in the 21st century,
in case some of you sillies forget.
Educated folks --- who are more comfortable with the gun, as opposed
to be more comfortable with the barrel of a gun (like these LPDR
people and their supporters are) --- can extrapolate, both
theoretically and in application, both into the past and into the
future, and they can organize much more effectively as vigilante
citizens of their own country, as a buffer against tyrants of their
own countrymen; they can easily see through tricks and propaganda.
Watch this:
We will see the TOTAL COLLAPSE of the North Korean regime within the
next 20 or so years. A country --- a group of rulers --- as corrupt,
isolated, and just paranoid as North Korea, wihch spends a
disproportionate amount of his citizens GDP earnings on USELESS
WEAPONRY, can not and will not survive more than a few generations.
Compared to their South Korean brethren, the North Koreans are
third world citizens, by any means you want to look at.
For example, the South Koreans (its political leaders, by the way, are
no less corrupt than any other country; yet IS GOVERNANCE SYSTEM is of
a much, much more democratic-representative nature and the TWO are
distinct entities, while in North Koea, the political rulers and the
government are the exact same entity) have the most wired homes, for
the COMMUNICATION AGE and they are slowly producing electronic
qualities approaching the Japanese, USA, and many societies in Europe
[look at the giant electronic, automotive, and computer industries, to
name only a few; still some notches beneath them but slowly catching
up and you can not say that about any other Asian country!].....
The North Koreans, on the other hand, are, on average, no more than
surviving reformed collective subsistence farmers, most of whom
do not have more than a few hours of electricity a day, if at that.
Fortunate --- this is both an irony and a paradox, but the former
will translate into the latter in the years to come --- information
has shown that the North Koreans are just as educated as their
brothers and sisters in the South, despite the almost totally
iron-fisted ruling policies of the North Korean juntas (epitomized
by little demented Kim Jong-Il). When or if they are able to
EXPERIMENT with better, more effective, more representative
forms of government, they, too, will almost surely quickly catch up
with their brethren in the South.
After all, if two groups of the same people --- equally educated, with
the same culture, language, tradition, etc. --- are separated by
only some stupid political insanity, once that's lifted, they can
come together, even if with some major pains (like West and East
Germany), and work quickly to bridge the cap in terms of applying
the most effective means to spread wealth and prosperity around.
Her Lao
> Forget about NTR or WTO if these two issues should have some types
> of POLITICAL STRING. We get it, it is OK. If we do not get it, it is
> OK as long as
> OUR NATIONAL SECURITY looks strong and secured. One thing readers
> have to know is that USA is not Laos' LARGEST TRADING PARTNER.Mr
> Khamtai should not LOOSE any SLEEP because of the pressure from U.S.
> congress and U.S senate.
As professor Hans Luther said, well, let me say, I think he would have
said it this say:
LAOS is not poor because of its land; for if LAND WERE a measure of a
people and their society's impoverishment, then MOST European countries
like the most advance post-industrialized nations like Austria, Sweden,
Switzerland, Scandinavia, the Netherlands, etc. should be DIRT POOR!
No!
LAOS is poor because it is ruled by very, and I mean, VERY RETARDED
peole like this LAO "economist" here, people who are so uneducated,
or, to more crudely put, people who are so stupid, they can't
understand any thing they read, any thing they see --- what they
decree as "correct" is their own stupidity, illusions, and paranoia,,,
THAT'S WHY LAOS is so poor. Good, effective, and applicable
INFORMATION --- as the world economist HANS LUTHER says --- is NOT
being absorbed by the stupid leaders.
HANS LUTHER IS INFORMATION, PART of the "good," "effective," and
"applicable" "information" that the POST-INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD goes by!,
in case you are not smart enough to understand it!
But, again, a stupid, delusional, and paranoid set of leaders like
the ruling LPRP/LPDR can not and will not absorb and spread THAT
KIND OF GOOD, EFFECTIVE, AND APPLICABLE "information" because it
is ANTI-THETICAL to its "correct leadership's" view on what is
"correct" what is not.
anna
> A couple of misinformed U.S. Officials by the Lao PDR and their
> friends in Washington, D.C. in recent weeks have argued that if
> Congress believes trade will promote democratic change in China, then
> why not adopt the same policy for the Lao PDR? Here is why: the LPDR
> is not China.
>
One way or another, NTR no help me paying bills, student loans, no put
food on table, no raise my kids. Why I give shit about it?
Noiy
Her Lao:
> Watch this:
>
""""> We will see the TOTAL COLLAPSE of the North Korean regime within
the next 20 or so years.""""
That looks sadly pessimistic. I hope he will go banana before that.
On the other hand, the guy is still relatively young and healthy.
Within 20 years, China will have been sitting proudly among the G9
members with its huge overall GDP,and will have more says on how lil
Kim should behave himself, i.e. like its big brother, á la
capitalisto-communismo.
noiy
Legends
old friends if he can use their name to sign a partition in support of NTR.
This guy got his ass beat up in seminar camp by the commies LPRP boys. This
guy escape to America after he was released. Now he is a regular at the LPRP
embassy. He like to hang around with the LPRP boys in DC. This guy is a
retard or going senile from old age.
"Mying's" <tso_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6d7b8119.04060...@posting.google.com...
Paxasonlao
Can it be of old age made that idiot change his mind from being enemy
of the LPDR . Same like that idiot old age Vang Pao change his mind to
secretly contact Vietnam for help to negotiate with LPDR . Only
different is :
That idiot from Virginia made to regular at the LPDR embassy but the
idiot Vang Pao didn't .
Hakpheng .
Paxasonlao4life.
"Legends" <leg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<vy9zc.8844$Y3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
frdmf...@hotmail.com
What is this dude's name?
Joe
neohmong
So, what was wrong with that? FYI, anyone, including yourself, can
walk into LPDR's Embassy in DC at any time. During his
administration, our great President Regean had met with the Soviet
Regime President KGB many times but there was nothing wrong with that.
NeoHmong
"Legends" <leg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<vy9zc.8844$Y3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
BukNama
yours.
You and Economiss003 can be good friend.
BNM.
"Her Lao" <hawj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:427561d984f782ccb38...@mygate.mailgate.org...
tobewitty
> sabaidi all,
> everybody even the us ambassador and vp want ntr for laos, except the
> (happy) few persons (notably hmongs) in the states.
100% refugees unlike our brother Lao luem who more then half are
immigrants.
*** refugee, (my translation) one who refuge from death or live crisis
of a good life less pleasing life but one can survive another day.
The majority of the Hmong left Laos, known not their future would hold
but they surly known that the commie wouldn't let them live their old
life if they choose to stay.
*** immigrant, one who always seek for a better life.
The majority Lao luem don't leave Laos until they know that there are
a better life waiting for them in the third countries, such as France,
USA, CANADA...
> anyway lpdr is the
> winner: if they have it is good for the money and the political line, if
> they have not it it is the fault of its ennemy and lao people must hate the
> hmongs! you said "ntr for lao pdr is wrong" i say "ntr for lao pdr is
> intelligent, even if you are the enemy of lpdr!"
Yes, it is a win-win situation for lpdr, Doc, your above paragraph
siad it all.
The Hmong refugees along have no much effect on stoping NTR, the real
stopers are the high ranking LPDR officials they said time again times
that they don't need/want NTR. I wonder who they serve, the poeple in
Laos or their boss Ai Viet.
I don't understand why MR. Harwick are more concern of getting NTR for
LPDR then the governing officials of LPDR too.
Of course, at the end the Hmong are to blame. The perfect sacrifice
lamb and scapegoat as usual. Not wonder LPDR love the Hmong sooooo
much...
Keeping the Hmong (by provide a place to live) are so handy,,, they
can pick on this faithful lamb any time for any occasion.
tobewitty
> I've said this a thousand times already, "whether we're for or against
> the NTR, it's going to happen".
Yes, it is only a matter of (ai viet's) time.
> The big NTR wheels are in motion and
> by the next fiscal year, Lao would most likely gets it.
Yes, until the Viet finish improving the highway systems in Lao-Viet
border. And the EU and USA has a permennent contract with the Viet
sea-ports. (perhaps, Ai Viet also hope that the US and EU will shift
some current contract from their former allies countries such as
Thailand and Philipine to the Ai Viets' ports.) And there are none
stop commercial flight directly from the US to Vietnam. At this time,
Ai Viet just don't want to waste the cheap labor in Laos to Ai Thai.
tobewitty
NTR for Laos is good by theory and concept assuming that it is a none
political issue. However, nowaday we cannot isolate any thnig from
politic therefore let play it the way it should be play and check into
every corners.
I think we the good citizens of Laos (x and none-x) are looking
(debating) each other out of the blue without acknowledge the real
economic and political power holding in Laos. They are Ai Thai and Ai
Viet. Since Chao Anou's day, these two nations never let Lao people
become themself. Whatever Lao people are doing must be supported
(approved) by these two big brothers.
Until thses two big brothers can figure out what to do with the cheap
labor in Laos, then Lao pdr will have NTR.
Believe me, otherwise the LPDR officials would be more active and do
all they can to get NTR but they don't. In fact they even told the
world that they don't want NTR. Why? they know that lpdr may get the
name but their big brothers will pocket the money from slaving Laos
citizens.
mou...@yahoo.com
Whether NTR is granted or not, Lao PDR will remain poor and its trade
excahange will depend on the will of its neighboring countries. There
are important questions need to be answered, such as: What is the
difference between domestic and international marketing? Does the
applicability of marketing principles change when they are transferred
to the global environment? How do marketers find out whether there is
a market for a product abroad without spending a fortune in time and
money on research? and How can marketers minimize government red tape
yet take advantage of allowing any product crossing their borders
without affecting the competitiveness of their own products?
Therefore, Lao PDR still badly needs Lao-Hmong overseas' help, even
with NTR in place Lao PDR still can do nothing concrete in a scope of
10-15 years. By the time, Lao PDR's regime may already be gone. So,
don't be too anxious. The only thing to make thing happens, we all
must do our job harder every day. Its intensity increases success.
Debate on NTR? When time comes, we will defuse it economically and
internationally.
Moua Sao
to...@witty.com (tobewitty) wrote in message news:<d216d338.0406...@posting.google.com>...
Anti
will not take the goverment position. I just wanted freedom for all my
poor people. I will change, I will revolutionize, I will turn every
people in Laos against the goverments of Laos. Once the peole take
over Laos I will let you people be the high ranking official. I just
wanted to be free and see my people success.
Amen
mou...@yahoo.com (mou...@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<2f642046.0406...@posting.google.com>...
Wayne
change we want with exception of a few who still want Laos to maintain
1-party system. Perhaps Laos is not quite ready for other forms of
Governement. Looks at how we tear each other in here and on the
street of St. Paul or elsewhere within our own Lao community. Do we
really think Laos will become better by sending to Laos a few
top-notch, liberal thinker, with overhaul package who often use human
rights issue as tool and shoot at everything that moves. Any society
needs time and Laos has captured the change mode since the last few
years. Perhaps with enough emotial support and with both technicle
and humanitarian aids from the Lao Nok, Laos could have a chance to
change the way we all look for. Our negative view on the LPDR will
just shy them away and maybe one day that country will be locked out
forever by the nieghboring countries who have desire to control Laos
and maybe not too long. It is time we helps Laos change but with the
right way and NEVER the old way any more. You can not convince people
to have a view of an oceon while they have never seen one. Perhaps it
is time we become involved in the change and hold their hands to that
promise land together. Just a thought.
Wayne
zab...@hotmail.com (Anti) wrote in message news:<3d96263d.04062...@posting.google.com>...
Paxasonlao
Buddah bless you Mr. Lao John Wayne . Laos need more people like you sir .
Hakpheng.
Paxasonlao4life .
say...@hotmail.com (Wayne) wrote in message news:<8de43ce5.04062...@posting.google.com>...
neohmong
Well stated. In my humble opinion, most of our Hmong colleagues in
this forum are not that far as yourself yet. I meant unlike you, some
of our colleagues here never land their feet back to Laos since 75,
which is very ill to debate on the LPDR regime vs. Hmong issue,
because the information that they received must pass from a 3rd, 4th,
5th person or a 3rd, 4th, 5th time. Unfortunately, unlike yourself
and Teev Lis, they had never dare to nor would be willing to meet
face-to-face with LPDR officials to discuss this issue.
NeoHmong
say...@hotmail.com (Wayne) wrote in message news:<8de43ce5.04062...@posting.google.com>...
solid...@yahoo.com
are you supporting ntr to the Lao commie, don't you?
PXM
mou...@yahoo.com (mou...@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<2f642046.0406...@posting.google.com>...
Moobsib
tshais tim Veescaas, li Bee Moua Chaofa, tab sis kuv yeej pom li Wayne
hais thiab. Txoj kev pab kom lub teb chaws NPlog hloov zuj zus mas kuv
ho pom zoo tab sis txoj kev yuav mus ua tus loj mas kuv tseem pom tias
txhaum cai zog lawd... heheheheh....
Moobsib
neohmong
Txhob poob siab ma, nyaj tsis ntev no xwb VP thiab Muas Choj lawv cov
kubxaj yuav coj Hmoob mus noj fawm liab vog tim Veescam lawm tiag.
Yawg loj hais tias tsis pub dhau xyoo 2005 no li mas lub teb chaws
Nplog yuav tsum yog yawg pab ua tus tswj thiab kav xwb xwb li. Ntshe
Teev, NeoHmong, Xejthim, Tseemyeej, DYD, thiab Moobsib yuav tau mus
tsob zeem kom luag tus hlob lees txais yuav peb mus ua luag li luj
noob pob? Koj tus ua tij xav li cas? Puas kam mus thiab? Tsam peb
tsis tau mus nrog lawv noj fawm laiv yawg?...hahahah...koj paub kuv
qhov message hais li cas lawm los mad...hahaha...
NeoHmong
paajd...@yahoo.com (Moobsib) wrote in message news:<818ff16c.04062...@posting.google.com>...
tseemyeej
> Teev, NeoHmong, Xejthim, Tseemyeej, DYD, thiab Moobsib yuav tau mus
> tsob zeem kom luag tus hlob lees txais yuav peb mus ua luag li luj
> noob pob?
Neb tus ntsej muag phooj ywg shitpoopoo(solidphous) es pheej nrog
nraim neb txhua qhov chaw ntawd tau xaab dab tsis nod? General from
Detroit? Yog peb mus zeem lawv no pos tau mus noj Fawm tiag mad? Neb
hais rau nws tias yog nws laj tos tau mus noj fawm tim VT no ces qhia
kuv paub kuv muaj peev xwm yuav airticket rau nws tuaj noj fawm pem
kuv zos. Fawm nyablaj qab kawg.
Hais txog NTR mas peb twv noj fawm twb tau. Yog Hmoob Tham Krabok tuaj
tag lawm es NTR tseem tsis approved thiab no ces cia kuv lav ua tus
them fawm twb tau. Ib tug phooj ywg lag luam nyablaj-suav hais rau kuv
tias thaum nyablaj thiav US yuav muaj NTR mas cov qub tub rog vietminh
muaj peev xwm tua lawv tus kheej los kwv nyom tseem fwv tshiab tus nab
nyus npais. Tab sis thaum kawg luag kuj xee luag lawm thiab. Tam sim
no nej ua tib zoo saib mas khoom tuaj VN tuaj nyob hauv hmoob tej kiab
khw ntau li ntau. Tab sis nug tseeb tseeb yog tuaj sab Hochiminh city
(Saigon)tuaj xwb. Cov tuav lag luam nyob sab US no yog tib co
vietnamese/chinese xwb(dev ua npua noj). Tus tseem nyablaj paub tib
hom lus xwb siv tsis tau hauj lwm li.
Peb cov hmoob yog cov muaj lag luam thiab muaj nyiaj nyob sab US no
and we are tri-lingual. Txhua lub events "4th of July" los sis "Hmoob
New Yr" nej tsuas pom Nplog tuaj "muag mov" noj thiab "play music"
(live band)lawm xwb. Lwm yam yog hmoob kaus tag nrho. Niaj hnub no cov
pajntaub tuaj Nplog teb tuaj yog poj nplog xaws tag nrho xwb. Nej hais
tias kuv dag no mus nug cov niam tais poj hmoob uas tuaj coob coob tim
Nplog tuaj es npaj muag khoom pem St. Paul no saib lawv cov paj ntaud
dab neeg ntawd yog leej twg xaws. Tam sim no cov hmoob xam phaj tuaj
yooj yim kawg nkaus. Nej mus ua tib zoo saib mas muaj tej pab tseem
yog tag nrho tsev neeg tau tuaj tib si.
Cov kubxaj pos ruav muag saib thiab naj?
Tseemyeej.
neoh...@yahoo.com (neohmong) wrote in message news:<29d91d7e.04062...@posting.google.com>...
neohmong
Tej neeg hais lus li ntawd es koj pheej mus cuab pob ntseg muag dab
tsi ma. Nws hais lus twb tsis nkag kuv pob ntseg kiag li sod. Phooj
ywg Tseemyeej, xav tias koj yuav to taub kuv kab lus "> Teev,
NeoHmong, Xejthim, Tseemyeej, DYD, thiab Moobsib yuav tau mus tsob
zeem kom luag tus hlob lees txais yuav peb mus ua luag li luj noob
pob?" Qhov no tsis yog kuv muab peb cov npe mus thab lawv tab sis
raws li paub mas yav dhau los mas lawv yeej niaj hnub tso Tsav, Vaj
Xab, Steven, Dr. Rock, thiab Jobee lawv cov kws tseej tswj
(politicians) no mus ntxias cov hluas Hmoob kom los koom tes rau lawv.
Kuv xav tias tij laug Xejthim paub qhov kuv hais no zoo heev li.
Ntsig txog NTR, rov hais dua, nws tsis yog Hmoob li tshwj cai li na,
nws yog tseem fwv Meskas tswj cai xwb yog luag yuav muab los tau luag
yuav tsis muab los tau. Tab sis yus cov Hmoob ib txhia zoo li cov
kubxaj twm ntawv thiab taug kev rov qab lawm thiaj li pheej yuav mus
cheem luag tseem fwv xwb. Qhov loj ces peb yeej paub lawm tias yog
Meskas muab NTR rau Nplog los peb Hmoob yeej tsis tau yaim dab tsi li
vim yus cov Hmoob tseem poob qab deb hais txog kev ua lag luam mus los
txawv teb chaws na. Txawm li ntawd los kuv ntseeg tias Hmoob mam li
kawm thiab xyaum ua raws luag qab ces nyaj tau thawj phaum lawm los
Hmoob yuav tau phaum tom qab no xwb. Nco ntsoov li tej laus hais
"thaum luag tsaj yus tsis nrog luag tsaj ces thaum luag tau noj yus ua
dev nuam yaj," ntawd yuav tsum tau kom Hmoob mus nrog luag tsaj lub
sij hawm no thiab es yog tias txog hnub tau NTR los nyaj yuav muaj tus
puav pom luag lw thiab nod. Tab sis mas ua cas cov kubxaj pheej tsis
nrog luag tsaj taug kev do li hos pheej ntxias dag kom Hmoob maub
thiab nkaum twj ywm pem hav zoov tsaj ceg xyoob ceg ntoo xwb li tiag.
Saib mas cas yam li yuav txog Hmoob siav ua luaj li lau.
NeoHmong
tsee...@wapda.com (tseemyeej) wrote in message news:<4d521a95.0406...@posting.google.com>...
Moobsib
Ua caag es yawm Zaab Dlaag nyuav tuaj tsi ntev xwb koj txawm siv txais
nkaus tau lu lug "niag ntsej muag" lawm naj?
Yuav tau xyuam xwm miv ntsiv tsaam ces ho tau moog nrug yawb Zaab
"hlob kav hlau" thab ov... hehehehehe...
ms
tseemyeej
Kuv yeej to taub koj cov lus zoo kawg. Tej zaum zag nuav tsis zoo li
zag u lawm. Ntuj yeej yuav txawj tig ko diav rau cov tub pluag tub u
li peb xwb xwb. Cia lawv ua lawv zaj, peb nyias yeej meem peem nyias
kom dim txoj kev ua luag qhev luag zog, txhob pub rau cov nyuag noj
nyoog haus txias ntawd laig lawm.
Peb cov noj kaus tauj kaus nqeeb hlob no, yog ib hnub twg, ntuj tig ko
diav txog, peb txawm ho noj hnya zog ib tog hniav puas tuaj los nyaj
yuav tsis tub qaug leej twg. Li kuv piav kuv tus phooj ywg Muas Choj
wb zov dav hlau rov mus LC es luag muaj kwv muaj tig ces luag kwv luag
tij coj luag tsaws tsua ntuj, xyeeb zog me khaub dab ntsoj ntsuag de
tes khuj khuav tuaj rov tom qab es mam maub nuj nuag 30 hnub tiv tshaj
cum tis mos dab. Niaj hnub nim no leej twg txawm yuav hais hais niag
qho quav txawj hais lus tib si los kuv yeej nto phiv tsis taug txoj
niag qub ke ntawd lawm os koj yawg awd.
Pos Muas
Hais txog NTR no koj hais raug kawg nkaus li lawm. Kuv txhawb koj lub
tswv yim no. Tam sim no USA tus nab nyub bais rau Nplog liab yog
"Engagement" txhais tau hais tias Meskas yuav pub rau Nplog liab noj
Nplog liab haus es mam li ntswj kom Nplog liab maj mam hloov zuj zus
mus rau democracy xwb.
The United State has very little interest on Lao PDR; meaning that the
United States will only gain very little benifit from Laos if Laos
prospers. Also on the opposite side, U.S. has very little to loose if
Laos goes to hell.
Li cas los U.S. yeej yuav muab NTR rau Nplog liab rau qhov U.S. muaj
kev vam khom txog Nplog liab kom Nplog liab ua ib tes hauj lwm tseem
ceeb rau U.S. lawm.
Hmoob txawm yuav dhia dhia ceg pluav tas los NTR yeej yuav dhau mus
rau Nplog liab. Tab sis ua li koj hais Hmoob yuav tsis tau yaim dab
tsi vim Nplog liab muaj tus kab mob xiab nyiaj/noj nyiaj (corruption)
thiab Hmoob tseem tsis tau txawj txeeb nrog luag ua tej lag luam loj
loj nyob hauv nroog loj.
Hmoob tej kev cai dab qhuas nruj nruj ua daj teg thaiv Hmoob kev vam
meej tas. Hmoob tsis kam tsis teb tsaws chaw mus nyob rau tiaj nrag
kom ze rau suam kev vam meej yuav loj hlob tuaj mus. Kev vam meej yeej
tsis nce toj mus thawj Hmoob puag pem roob. Ntawm tus kas moos los
yeej tsis loj hlob nyob pem Hmoob zos tib yam nkaus. Ntshe yuav yog
100 xyoo tom ntej no Hmoob thiaj yuav to taub txog kev vam meej.
Muas Pos
============================================
tseemyeej
Sorry for my bad mouth, but I always believe in "Pos chob yuav tau
muab pos dlig". Yog tas lub nplaj teb nuav tshuav koj hab Zaab_dlaag
hab shitpoopoo lawm xwb koj yuav npuab leej twg? I think Zaab is more
informative and shitpoopoo is more hostile.
Kuv tuaj haus nuav yog tuaj relaxe xwb, so either "Tseemyeej" or
"Tseemswb" both way are O.K to me, my goal was already set firmly many
years ago.
Tseemyeej.
paajd...@yahoo.com (Moobsib) wrote in message news:<818ff16c.04062...@posting.google.com>...
bucba
you guys discuss more about NTR. Bucba007
Born2beHmong
people as us who will not support their poor dying brothers, sisters,
and extend families in Laos. we all do want ntr to benefit our mother
land and the rest of our cousins. and, who will be the first to be
going there to create business--only Lao and Hmong in the 3rd world
because there are so many of us living in the 3rd world, it would be
such a beneficial if we can just buy Laos goods, materials, and
products to help the needed extend cousins there.
there is only one click that we need to be changed or lifted the
problematic--that we all need to see. just like those Australian
business men that put into jail few years ago. now, there are about 2
items that keep poping into my mind
1. what can we deal with the people in the jungle? is there a solution
for their safety.
2. people are being taken into jail and re-education camp without
proving to be guilty. leader can influence decision making of judicial
branch---good example, Dr. NawKao Moua and the two journalisms were
sentenced to 15 years in prison, and they can get out of jail just in
days......they will release any person or put any person in jail, or
camp and noone can say a thing--or they will be the next person to
follow.
it does not matter if LPDR is governing the land or not, there is no
concern to me about what political affiliation at the moment,
education and wills will privial the change and cause.
until we see these minor changes, therefore, we would be no longer
concerned at all about NTR.........
Born2beHmong