an interesting take on culture?
George
I stand continuously surprised how little Hawaiian culture shows on our
present-day life.
Take architecture. Some of the Waikiki hotels and Honolulu downtown
buildings look like the public hospital in Magnitogorsk. Where are the
Polynesian characteristics, special ornamental elements, works of art of
local artisans, intricate patterns stylized from local flowers, etc. that
would make our building look truly tropical, exotic - Hawaiian? One that
would make people think, "aha, Hawaii" and not Miami or Kuala Lumpur when
looking at a post card or photo of our cities ?
Take music. Hawaiian pop is nice, I listen to it too, but we have to see a
Hawaiian Beethoven yet. Someone who could create that ultimate synthesis of
all Polynesian and other music, bringing the result to a higher level than
being the sum of its parts.
Take writing. Do we have a real Hawaiian style? The Greeks have their
dramas, the Italians their commedia dell'arte, or the French their
vaudeville... what do we have in Hawaii ? (I mean, _now_ ? Ancient Hawaiian
legends, though world-class, are not present contributions. I'm asking
about the present.)
Take painting. Not counting some technicolor tourist-market kitsch, the
most used style is French Impressionism applied to local subjects. That is
great but that's a depart only, it should develop into something new and
wonderful, something unique to Hawaii.
What happened to the creative giants of our times, are they busy watching
TV, and ekeing out a survival as taxi drivers ? I don't get it. Hawaii _IS_
the place where a real art genius should live; this is where all the
cultures of East and West meet and interlace, where one could create the
_biggest_ synthesis of mankind's whole global art experience ever. Instead,
what we got all over the place? The "nuclear blast sunset" pictures and
wind-up plastic hula dolls Made In Hong Kong.
(And people complain there are no jobs. You got at least 10,000 right there)
Keoki
Kekamaao
In article <nortle-886...@news.lava.net>,
smo...@aloha.net (George) wrote:
>Take painting. Not counting some technicolor tourist-market kitsch, the
>most used style is French Impressionism applied to local subjects. That is
>great but that's a depart only, it should develop into something new and
>wonderful, something unique to Hawaii.
>What happened to the creative giants of our times, are they busy watching
>TV, and ekeing out a survival as taxi drivers ? I don't get it. Hawaii _IS_
>the place where a real art genius should live; this is where all the
>cultures of East and West meet and interlace, where one could create the
>_biggest_ synthesis of mankind's whole global art experience ever. Instead,
>what we got all over the place? The "nuclear blast sunset" pictures and
>wind-up plastic hula dolls Made In Hong Kong.
Oooooh! Keoki, you need to make a trip to the Big Island! Ever hear of
Linus Chow, or Dietrich Varez? There are two world-class artists that
I can think of without even having to strain these old memory cells.
Get outta Honolulu a little bit, brah. It's a fine city, one of the nicest
I've ever seen, but it's a *city*. They're pretty much the same (good,
bad, and ugly) no matter where you go, aren't they? I guess that's what
you said already, isn't it?
You want a Hawaiian author who will lift your spirit? Check out Nana
Veary. If you can read 10 pages of her and still have your feet on the
ground, you' one heavy dude, brah!
Music? I think Panther can help you out there.
..and we haven't even mentioned Merrie Monarch.
BTW, the creative giants almost *always* eke out a living driving taxis.
Why should Hawai`i be any different?
I think you're right about this much though... I've decided to sell all
my stock in the plastic wind-up hula doll business. :)
Aloha,
jesse
DrG
eXCerpts from Kekamaao, je...@lava.net writes...
:
:In article <nortle-886...@news.lava.net>,
:smo...@aloha.net (George) wrote:
[snippage]
:
:>What happened to the creative giants of our times, are they busy watching
:>TV, and ekeing out a survival as taxi drivers ? I don't get it. Hawaii _IS_
:>the place where a real art genius should live;
..i live here....and im not a taxi driver...
I'm unemployed! <g>
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
DrG
Waikiki, u$A
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
George
> You want a Hawaiian author who will lift your spirit? Check out Nana
> Veary. If you can read 10 pages of her and still have your feet on the
> ground, you' one heavy dude, brah!
>
I went to the Ala Moana Book Shop and bought her "Change We Must".
I'll see about that staying on the ground... :-)
I just got there during the Chinese parade. On the way out I put a dollar
into the mouth of the dancing Dragon. Someone said this brings luck ?
(Yeah. For the dragon... :-)
Keoki
albert the panther
On 31 Jan 1998, Kekamaao wrote:
> Oooooh! Keoki, you need to make a trip to the Big Island! Ever hear of
> Linus Chow, or Dietrich Varez? There are two world-class artists that
> I can think of without even having to strain these old memory cells.
I've never heard of either. I think he was right about local painters
and sculptors. There is almost nothing of interest being done. What
is most commercially successful is kitsch of the worst kind, either
those garish seascape monstrosities or the chocolate box sentimental
languishing ladies. The most interesting paintings I've seen in my
nine years here were done by UH students, and it's doubtful any of
those would stand a chance in the local galleries, even if a few might
do well in New York City.
> Music? I think Panther can help you out there.
Not in the sense he means it. There are indeed wonderful song writers
here. To my thinking, Dennis Kamakahi is every bit the equal of Stephen
Foster. But there are no composers creating large scale works with
Hawaiian content, not that I know of, anyway.
Norman Roberts
smo...@aloha.net (George) wrote:
>
> I stand continuously surprised how little Hawaiian culture shows on our
> present-day life.
>
> What happened to the creative giants of our times, are they busy watching
> TV, and ekeing out a survival as taxi drivers ? I don't get it. Hawaii _IS_
> the place where a real art genius should live; this is where all the
> cultures of East and West meet and interlace, where one could create the
> _biggest_ synthesis of mankind's whole global art experience ever. Instead,
> what we got all over the place? The "nuclear blast sunset" pictures and
> wind-up plastic hula dolls Made In Hong Kong.
>
> (And people complain there are no jobs. You got at least 10,000 right there)
>
> Keoki
>
>
George (smooth) has posed us a number of interesting
questions that have mostly received the short answers. Of
course, that's what UseNet is for. If we really wanted to know
something, we'd ask the experts_except that we don't trust them
because they never tell us what we want to hear. And worse, they
ask us more questions (a decidedly bad-mannered trait in local
culture), most of which we can't answer (and we don't like that).
Experts can't give any answers until they've clarified the
question. We don't have the patience for that. Mostly we ask
such questions as George has posed just to hear people say,
"Gosh, I don't know." That answer tells us we're no longer
alone, and everything is all right.
Frankly I don't know the answers to any of George's questions,
but maybe I can give out a little information. Having lived here
longer than lots of people have been alive, I've picked up bits
and pieces of information here and there. Although "I never wen
grad" from a local high school, I wen grad UH a couple times, but
all that means is that after I got here, I never could afford to
leave.
Architecture. That's like buildings and such, yeah? I think
most of the building that begun about the time I arrived and has
only recently begun to abate was ordered and paid for by other
people's money. That pretty much means the guy who pays, says.
Those words rhyme in local speech, and so there is both the rhyme
and the reason for what we see.
Yeah, the local skyline isn't much to look at, but if you nose
around some of the individual buildings, it's quite a different
story. The Outdoor Circle has pretty much insured that there's
nothing that will jump out at you and say, "Here's Hawaii." I
rather like it that way. One appreciates something found after a
search more than something that hits him in the face. And if one
has neither the time nor inclination to search, maybe he was not
meant to find.
Music. There's plenty of it and all kinds. There's an
interesting article in this month's "Honolulu Magazine" on the
decline of live music in Honolulu in late years. The article
says MTV has shortened people's attention span, and karaoke and
synthesizers have replaced live musicians. Could be. It never
was very easy to make a living in music. The really successful
musicians have always needed either a patron or a day job.
Neither are very plentiful these days.
I wouldn't be much concerned about there being no Polynesian
Beethovans. There is only one. On the other hand, I sometimes
think that amongst all the Hawaiian Pop, there is sure to emerge
something like songs of the quality of a Dowland or Purcell.
Honolulu does have a pretty good symphony orchestra in spite of
all the difficulties. I believe the music director is a local
boy, too.
There was a time when grand opera was very much the rage. A
composer named Charles King even wrote a couple of Hawaiian
operas, in the days when you had to be Italian, German, French,
or Spanish to write opera. His operas were staged at the old
Honolulu Opera House to appreciative audiences until the foreign
critics began to comment on music in Hawaii.
I think "The Hawaiian Wedding Song," that beautiful "Kuulei," and
the stirring "Kamehameha Waltz" came from King's operas. I don't
know about his bood quantum, but George Kanehele's "History of
Hawaian Music" (if that's the right title) probably can tell us.
Music today is just another consumer item, and much of it is of
little artistic value, but now and then you come across that
little gem that makes the search worth the effort.
Writing. Since writing was introduced in the 1820s, there has
been a considerable amount produced. We often (maybe always)
forget that the history of Hawaii which we read in English is
mostly the history of haoles in Hawaii. Hawaiian, Chinese,
Japanese, Portuguese, German, Korean, Porto Rican, and Filipino
prose and poetry is still waiting to be discovered. All you have
to do is learn the languages well enough to read and appreciate
what has been written.
I'm most familiar with the Japanese body of writing which
consists of diaries, poetry, essays, stories, and novels, most of
which will pass from human knowledge in another generation.
World War II dealt the Japanese language in Hawaii a blow it will
never recover from. Much writing was destroyed during the war,
not so much by the Military Government as by the authors
themselves who saw that act as a gesture of their patriotism.
There still flourishes, I believe, a Japanese poetry society, but
as its members age and leave this world, the society must, too,
pass away. Very few local Japanese learn the ancestral language.
What is true for one ethnic group must certainly be true for
others as well.
There's a considerable body of writing being done in English
these days, and much of it has more than just literary
pretensions. Like regional writing elsewhere, it doesn't have
wide appeal nor does it get the audience it deserves. Island
society is not much of a reading and writing society. Nor is
language proficiency highly valued; if it were, the ancestral
languages would not be dying out because the young no longer see
any need for them. I'm familiar with the counter arguments, but
the statistics are telling.
Like musicians, writers need day jobs, too. And the day jobs
that many end up getting, teaching English, news writing,
contract writing, newsletter editing, for example, sap one's
creative urges. Bamboo Ridge Press has published a number of
contemporary local writers. Border's Books and Barnes & Noble
Bookstore have provided forums for local writers where the public
comes to buy autographed books which may increase in value.
Well, you never know.
Just recently I finished reading Nora Okja Keller's "Comfort
Woman." It's such an interesting piece of writing that I'm going
to read it again.
And I wouldn't entirely discount the stories and styles being
pioneered by Pueo and Da NayTan. Remember that about five or six
hundred years ago a guy named Geoff Chaucer was writing in some
low class dialect. And he knew how to write good Latin, too!
Terrible! Disgusting! A waste of good talent.
Like it or not, Island English (which is what the ancestral
languages have become) is still undergoing development. It has
great potential. A few years ago, Joseph Hadley published a slim
volume of verse with an accompanying recording of the text. The
eye-dialect spelling turned me off, but Hadley's reading was very
moving. The title piece, "Chai Luk Yu Eensai," (Look inside
yourself) tells the reader where it's at.
Painting. In my undergraduate days I worked for the UH Art
department as a projectionist for some of the art classes. I
know nothing about art but I've seen a helluva lot of pictures.
Some of the best ones I saw in the old George Hall gallery during
the student and faculty exhibitions. I've never visited the new
art building (which is already old) nor have I ever visited the
Honolulu Academy of Art. I say I'm saving up things to see; it's
possible to see nearly everything in Honolulu and on Oahu in a
very short time. I don't want to use up the resources.
It's been a long time since I've visited the Zoo Fence. I don't
even know if it still is the gathering place for island artists
to display their works, but I recall seeing some very interesting
and highly original material there.
So how come in this cosmopolitan, poly-cultural, multi-racial
society there's nothing that shows through the commercial facade?
Well, I think a lot of our creativity is rather private. It has
to be since the consumer culture doesn't value it. People show
what others want to see; that is, what everybody likes.
Most of the sub-cultures, which together make up something still
in its formative stages, are very traditional. They neither
reward nor encourage creativity. After all, if you're creative,
you're different. If you're different, you stand out. If you
stand out, you attract attention. If you attract attention, it
may notice me. I don't want that. At least one local writer I
know has been admonished by relatives to stop exposing family
secrets.
And then there's the economic aspect. George suggests that there
are ten thousand jobs there and he's probably right. But they
aren't paying jobs, not in this society. It costs a lot to be a
starving artist in Honolulu.
Hence the plastic Hawaii. On the other hand, if you want to look
for the real thing, it's there, creativity and all. It's all
rather subtle but not too hard to find.
Kekamaao
In article <nortle-886...@news.lava.net>,
albert the panther <pan...@lava.net> wrote:
>On 31 Jan 1998, Kekamaao wrote:
>> Oooooh! Keoki, you need to make a trip to the Big Island! Ever hear of
>> Linus Chow, or Dietrich Varez?
>I've never heard of either.
Hmmm, too bad. They're both quite well known on the Big Island. Quite
a number of local artists are represented at the Volcano Art Center,
which is near the Visitor's Center at Volcanos National Park. It's a
small gallery, but there's some wonderful work there... painting mostly,
and small sculpture. There is breathtaking raku pottery done here, which
probably follows from the strong Japanese influence in the Hilo area.
There are also quite a number of artists who work in wood.
Aloha,
jesse
John W. Bienko
I was shocked to see the recent renovations made in the
lobby of the Sheraton Waikiki.
The decor reminds one of the theatre of the absurd..
imagine plastic yellow and green dolphins splashing
around the massive pillars that support the 30+ story
structure. Add to this the gawky striped, overstuffed
lounges staggered around the uneven stone flooring and
you have a disaster in the making. Uncomfortable to sit on and
dangerous to walk on. Where are the genius designers to
the Ala Moana when we need them so badly?
At one time that lobby was magnificent.. decorated with
a chandelier withsea shells blowing in the wind coming
onshore from Malama Bay.. such heavenly sounds..
now only memories of the good old times.
--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q
Daniel Deronda
In article <nortle-886...@news.lava.net> smo...@aloha.net (George)
writes:
[...]
%Take music. Hawaiian pop is nice, I listen to it too, but we have to see a
%Hawaiian Beethoven yet. Someone who could create that ultimate synthesis of
%all Polynesian and other music, bringing the result to a higher level than
%being the sum of its parts.
Ouch George. Don't be so hard on yourself, for a tiny million you
guys are creating a bounty of wonderful music. Maybe some of your
cyber-neighbors will take you to some of their haunts.
mmi...@3-cities.com
More 2cents worth coming up.
Is it really a valid question to ask why there is not more Hawaiian works
of art that compete in the western model? I'm really surprised to hear
this question. I don't know where to start. For one thing, it seems to deny
collosal importance of Hawaii's existing indiginous art, just because it does
not resemble mozart. Mozart and Beethoven sprung from centuries of
creative waves coming up thru the collective consiousness of the culture.
Just like Hula. I think hula compete's with ballet any day as an art form. I
think it's unreasonable to expect Hawaii to produce a mozart, why would
it? That's not what Hawaii is about. Now I can't really talk much about the
visual arts, but I do know there are a couple of really well known hawaiian
photographers. Music? Oh god, the hawaiian music scene I think is really
powerfull. Slack key is so totally original and shows that truely important
art will come through the local Zietgiest. I think that Hawaiian music has
made quite a bit of an impact on the mainland, even disproportionally so.
When was the last time you saw an exposition of music from utah?
As far as measuring the sucsess of Hawaiian artists by mainland standards,
why would anyone want to do that? My opinion is the U.S. art market is
very politisiced, commercial and soul-less, what sells is no reflection of
true value. I think the polynesian art is so rich, to complain that it's not
prominent in the western scene is like asking why african pigmies don't
buy alot of spice girls CD's.
Mark...
Skegs 007
>>>At one time that lobby was magnificent.. decorated with
a chandelier withsea shells blowing in the wind coming
onshore from Malama Bay.. such heavenly sounds..
now only memories of the good old times.<<<
Ahhhhh, and I thought I was the only one who missed the hypnotic music those
shells played. Actually, if I recall correctly, they got rid of those
chandeliers around 1988. I still here them...
Wishing the world good surf, blading, paintball & cabernet
-Henry
Malcolm Rockwell
(George) writes:
[...]
Take music. Hawaiian pop is nice, I listen to it too, but we have to see
a Hawaiian Beethoven yet. Someone who could create that ultimate
synthesis of all Polynesian and other music, bringing the result to a
higher level than being the sum of its parts.
I can see you have never heard of Henry Berger, Sol Hoopii, Bennie
Nawahi or Johnny Noble. They were all great musicians and writers in
their time, for different reasons. Grab a copy of George Kanahele's
"Hawaiian Music And Musicians" if you can find one - your local library
should be able to get a copy, it's way out of print - and have a read.
Malcolm R
Alvin E. Toda
On 2 Feb 1998 mmi...@3-cities.com wrote:
> Is it really a valid question to ask why there is not more Hawaiian works
> of art that compete in the western model? I'm really surprised to hear
> this question. I don't know where to start. For one thing, it seems to deny
> collosal importance of Hawaii's existing indiginous art, just because it does
> As far as measuring the sucsess of Hawaiian artists by mainland standards,
> why would anyone want to do that? My opinion is the U.S. art market is
> Mark...
Mark probably has the best perspective on this. I think if a suitable
venue were found for local art than more people might recognize this.
How many of us have known of children that started playing the uke at
five and displaying skills of a prodigy? The lack of training and
inspiration prevented further development of their talent beyond
jamming at family parties. Unfortunately, formal artistic councils
could become political and lead to the promotion of commercial
stuff rather than real art. Maybe the best action is more school
programs in this area.
Not that much that I see in the commercial world is bad. There is
a lot of good-- but it seems to be pretty bland stuff. BTW, it's
good that senior citizens have almost no cost to attend college
courses. I was surprised to see a few at the Leeward CC holiday
concert-- nowadays the tuition is about $100 for a course like
chorus. However, it's sad that there seems to be no secular
choral opportunities in the leeward and central Oahu areas.
--alvin
Makani
George wrote:
> I stand continuously surprised how little Hawaiian culture shows on our
> present-day life.
>
> Lets not forget the 32 cents stamps that were designed by a local artist, just
> one that comes quickly to mind. On music, years back The Royal Hawaiian Band
> did write and publish music with great local opera singers, again the name
> that comes quickly to mind is Emma Veary. Singers like her have traveled the
> world singing Hawaiian classics. Last but not least, don't forget all the
> local artist that have recently played at Carnagy (sp) Hall in New York.
AC21209
Smooth George from Aloha Net-
I think you are begging the question too early. You ask for Hawaiian
Beethovens, Hawaiian Geogia O'Keefes. Well, remember, these people are dead.
Usually an artist becomes great only after he has died. We must wait awhile
for more artists to die before they can be "found."
As for the thought of a Hawaiian Beethoven....would you really want one? I
take it that you suggest a composer, but symphonic composition is a European
trait and not a Polynesian one. Look at some of those musicians who have
innovated a style called "Slack Key Guitar" - that is your "beethoven" these
are the new innovators of music. Review artists such as Keali'i Reichel who is
bringing music and chants of old to the forefront and combining them with the
modern sounds of today - innovation. Look at your Kumu Hula of today, the
styles are crisp, robust and precise - muc more innovative than hula of years
past.
As for the writings, I can only tell you to look to the alternative or college
presses and stages. At UH you will find a whole season of new works. This is
where you will find the innovation, not on the mainstage at the Blaisdell.
And for artists, there are quite a number of accomplished artists in Hawaii
(and I do not mean that Lassen-crap - although that may carry through time),
but you'll have to look for them in the smaller galleries of the islands. One
of my favorite galleries is the Koolau Gallery in Windward Mall. Lots of new
work by island artists, perhaps one of them will become the next Picasso - when
they're dead (sorry about that one guys).
Hawaii is the place where artists live, but that is the catch-all- Live.
People need to eat in order to live and survive, so that musician probably is
driving that cab, that playright is driving the Roberts Hawaii tourbus and the
artist is working at the front desk of the Sheraton Waikiki. They work so that
they can live and create their art and not die too soon.
albert the panther
On 2 Feb 1998, Makani wrote:
> did write and publish music with great local opera singers, again the name
> that comes quickly to mind is Emma Veary.
I am sorry, Makani, but Emma is NOT a "great opera singer" and I am sure
she would be the first to agree. There is no great Hawaiian-born opera
singer, nor is there any reason why there should be.
This thread has become very distorted.
fletcher
In article <nortle-886...@news.lava.net>,
as...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John W. Bienko) wrote:
>At one time that lobby was magnificent.. decorated with
>a chandelier withsea shells blowing in the wind coming
>onshore from Malama Bay.. such heavenly sounds..
>now only memories of the good old times.
As it was the last time I walked through... I think I'll give it a miss in
future and just remember the sound of that chandelier.
Eeyoouuuu... green and yellow plastic dolphins!?
Rick Ermshar
AC wrote:
>> As for the thought of a Hawaiian Beethoven....would you really want
one? I
take it that you suggest a composer, but symphonic composition is a
European trait and not a Polynesian one. <<
So far I haven't seen anyone in this thread mention Hawaii's most
prolific composer: Rev. Dennis Kamakahi, with (I believe) over 400 songs
written and/or recorded.
Malamapono
Panther wrote:
>
>On 2 Feb 1998, Makani wrote:
>
> > did write and publish music with great local opera singers, again the name
> > that comes quickly to mind is Emma Veary.
Panther wrote:
>I am sorry, Makani, but Emma is NOT a "great opera singer" and I am sure
>she would be the first to agree. There is no great Hawaiian-born opera
>singer, nor is there any reason why there should be.
>
>This thread has become very distorted.
Actually, Panther...
Hawaii DID have an internationally-renowned opera singer. Tandy McKenzie (my
grandfather's half-brother) performed all over the U.S. and Europe during the
30s and 40s...and is still considered the most outstanding operatic talent ever
to come from these islands.
-- Mahealani
Craig Thompson
In <nortle-886...@news.lava.net> albert the panther
<pan...@lava.net> writes:
>
>I am sorry, Makani, but Emma is NOT a "great opera singer" and I am
sure
>she would be the first to agree. There is no great Hawaiian-born
opera
>singer, nor is there any reason why there should be.
What a bizarre statement. Why in the world not? Are all Hawaiian
singers born to sing Hi'ilawe and not Nesum Dorma (sp?)? Sheesh.
By the way, I heard Ikaika Purdy at the Hollywood Bowl, born and bred
in Hawaii, and he is a FANTASTIC opera singer.
Bu
Judy Barrett
Craig Thompson wrote:
And apparently more than a few Germans agree. As do I. (Got to meet him
at Great American Music Hall last fall, Bu.)
Judy
albert the panther
On 4 Feb 1998, Craig Thompson wrote:
> >There is no great Hawaiian-born opera
> >singer, nor is there any reason why there should be.
>
> What a bizarre statement. Why in the world not? Are all Hawaiian
> singers born to sing Hi'ilawe and not Nesum Dorma (sp?)? Sheesh.
Certainly not, but they grow up in a cultural backwater here, in a global
sense, no matter how rich and beautiful the local culture itself is. It
isn't too surprising if someone with a beautiful voice learns the local
classics rather than some stuff in French or Italian, is it?
> By the way, I heard Ikaika Purdy at the Hollywood Bowl, born and bred
> in Hawaii, and he is a FANTASTIC opera singer.
He shows great promise, I agree. I'm looking forward to one day hearing
him with a decent orchestra.
George
> Look at some of those musicians who have
> innovated a style called "Slack Key Guitar" - that is your "beethoven"
No, it isn't. That is the Hawaii equivalent of folk singers.
Music runs on two parallel paths. First, you have the folk singers,
entertainers at festivities, who sing and play songs for the general
public. That's the equivalent of today's commercial Hawaii music you can
buy at Borders.
But then, parallel to this, there were always the "big shots" - the
synthesizing minds. Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, and the like. They took all
the knowledge and melodies the folk singers could offer, combined it with
the lastest in instrument design technology, orchestration, harmony and
counterpoint and built something from it that made everyone's jaw drop.
These big minds are what I miss here in Hawaii. Not the symphonic style
they used then.
I wouldn't say the result of a modern-day composing genius would be
symphonic music as we know it. It would be most likely _very_ different.
Someone synthesizing all of today's musical knowledge would use a lot of
modern digital synthesis techniques, jazz harmony, sound reinforcement
technology, visual technology, etc. etc., too... this would result in
something _very_ different from "classical" symphonic music.
Keoki
Judy Barrett
George wrote:
> I wouldn't say the result of a modern-day composing genius would be
> symphonic music as we know it. It would be most likely _very_ different.
> Someone synthesizing all of today's musical knowledge would use a lot of
> modern digital synthesis techniques, jazz harmony, sound reinforcement
> technology, visual technology, etc. etc., too... this would result in
> something _very_ different from "classical" symphonic music.
>
Egad! Sounds like.............YANNI!
Judy
George
Yanni is a Greek composer; his primary inspiration is Greek music. A
Hawaiian Yanni would be of order, here.
I also wish this Hawaiian Yanni would focus more on communicating his ideas
and emotions to the public, (what art is about!) and less on fluff.
Do you feel anything when you listen to Yanni's music ? Do you feel sad,
happy, moved, cool, anything ? I don't... It sounds very nice, but it just
doesn't move me. It is so safe and sterile, my dentist plays it to make his
patients fall asleep.
George
albert the panther
On 6 Feb 1998, George wrote:
> Yanni is a Greek composer; his primary inspiration is Greek music. A
> Hawaiian Yanni would be of order, here.
I'd much prefer a "Hawaiian Philip Glass", although considering what Glass
did with Tibetan music in the soundtrack for "Kundun", maybe someone
should just commission him to live here for a year and see what he comes
up with after an extended exposure to local music.
Duke
Just a couple of thoughts after following this thread...Seems like
breakthroughs in music of any culture these days is pretty rare. Either
that, or we are too close (in time) to perceive them as breakthroughs.
I like the discussion...you never know who might be listening and get
some ideas!
Also, wouldn't it be important to support any Hawaiian
artist/musician/actor? Does any one agree with the thought that a
person of Hawaiian descent who had some degree of success (critical
and/or financial) would be a contributor to Hawaiian culture? In a
sense, their creations would be informed by their Hawaiian-ness.
Duke
Daniel Deronda
In article <nortle-886...@news.lava.net> albert the panther <pan...@lava.net> writes:
%
%On 6 Feb 1998, George wrote:
%
%% Yanni is a Greek composer; his primary inspiration is Greek music. A
%% Hawaiian Yanni would be of order, here.
%
%I'd much prefer a "Hawaiian Philip Glass", although considering what Glass
%did with Tibetan music in the soundtrack for "Kundun", maybe someone
%should just commission him to live here for a year and see what he comes
%up with after an extended exposure to local music.
%
I understand that a symphonic or classical incorporation of Hawaiian music
was attempted for the filming of Michener's book, Hawaii - basically
a classical sound with ancient chants and instruments mixed in. Kanahele
says it was praised nationally, but panned locally. Anyone have a memory
of the soundtrack?
Charles Schmidling
albert the panther <pan...@lava.net> wrote in article
<nortle-886...@news.lava.net>...
>
> On 2 Feb 1998, Makani wrote:
>
> > did write and publish music with great local opera singers, again the
name
> > that comes quickly to mind is Emma Veary.
>
> I am sorry, Makani, but Emma is NOT a "great opera singer" and I am sure
> she would be the first to agree. There is no great Hawaiian-born opera
> singer, nor is there any reason why there should be.
>
> This thread has become very distorted.
Careful what you say sir, or the spirit of J. Aku will come down and slap
you one!
or worse ... he'll send
THE CHICKEN MANNNN
(he's everywhere! he's everywhere!) - BONG
[Sorry, could resist...]
Hakee dude
On 2/5-George wrote:
>No, it isn't. That is the Hawaii equivalent of folk singers.
>
>Music runs on two parallel paths. First, you have the folk singers,
>entertainers at festivities, who sing and play songs for the general
>public. That's the equivalent of today's commercial Hawaii music you can
>buy at Borders.
and who listened to Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart-mostly the "general
public." (and a small smattering of the odd king here and there....)
>But then, parallel to this, there were always the "big shots" - the
>synthesizing minds. Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, and the like.
There is some truth to this-BUT.........
While he lived, Bach was known more for his organ technique (he did have 20
kids...) and ability to improvise than his "composing". According to what
Iunderstand, he often visited the local tavern during Services and generally
improvised fugues, toccatas (flashy "touch" pieces) on the spot. Do we see
any
parallels here w/ Haw. Slack Key Musicians??? I think possibly?
Beethoven-well-more into an era (Romanticism) when composers were more
revered.
But his music was still intended for the general populace to hear-they just
had different ears than today's audience where only a few enjoy his music.
Mozart-was a partyer (vis a vis "Amadeus"). He died penniless and diseased.
His music, as the other two, was certainly profound, but he was also base (not
bass...), crass, crude, rude, and highly irresponsible.
>always the "big shots" - the
>synthesizing minds.
I can't think of something much more synthesized than Slackkey with its
personal expression, techniques, tunings, cultural influences, etc. Yes,
harmonically it is quite simple (except for the stylings of Cyril Pahinui with
his 7ths, 9ths, jazz influence, etc.), but harmony is really only one
aspect of
music. There is rhythm, melody, color---- Certainly European music lacks
rhythmic variation (slack key ain't way up on the list either folks <g>), but
as far as melody, as far as synthesizing a number of elements into one that
can
ultimately move me as much as Bach's concertos, hey-they're on the same level
to me!
Things did get more complex in Europe ( in a manner that is "different" than
the tonal patterns we are used to), what with the 12 toners (sounds like a doo
wop group, eh??<g>), Stravinsky, Bartok, and beyond-but also the number of
people who listen drops off considerably.
>These big minds are what I miss here in Hawaii. Not the symphonic style
>they used then.
Welllllllllllllll-I must say that I don't see a lacking of "big minds"-like in
Renaissance and even Baroque periods, individuality in performance style is
cultivated and prized. I remember going to music school and being taught to
get that "one perfect sound" on the clarinet. Nah baby nah. You got big
minds
in Hawaii.
>Someone synthesizing all of today's musical knowledge would use a lot of
>modern digital synthesis techniques, jazz harmony, sound reinforcement
>technology, visual technology, etc. etc., too... this would result in
>something _very_ different from "classical" symphonic music.
Like Da Rev said on tour on Tuesday, (paraphrase)-It's easy to play complex,
what is really hard is to play _simple_.
Yes yes yes-less notes, more silence, more room for both error and
interpretation/expression/playing from the heart.
Bach and Da Rev-different/similar. Both extremely valuable to me.Both move
me.
Charles Ives-he used da folk music, but I don' think of the harmony of life
when I listen to him.
Sorry for the long rant-give me that ol'time religion-oops I mean music.
Michael Z
Duke
albert the panther wrote:
>
> On 6 Feb 1998, George wrote:
>
> > Yanni is a Greek composer; his primary inspiration is Greek music. A
> > Hawaiian Yanni would be of order, here.
>
> I'd much prefer a "Hawaiian Philip Glass", although considering what Glass
> did with Tibetan music in the soundtrack for "Kundun", maybe someone
> should just commission him to live here for a year and see what he comes
> up with after an extended exposure to local music.
Just a couple of thoughts after following this thread...Seems like
Norman Roberts
Duke wrote:
>
>
> Just a couple of thoughts after following this thread...Seems like
> breakthroughs in music of any culture these days is pretty rare. Either
> that, or we are too close (in time) to perceive them as breakthroughs.
> I like the discussion...you never know who might be listening and get
> some ideas!
>
> Also, wouldn't it be important to support any Hawaiian
> artist/musician/actor? Does any one agree with the thought that a
> person of Hawaiian descent who had some degree of success (critical
> and/or financial) would be a contributor to Hawaiian culture? In a
> sense, their creations would be informed by their Hawaiian-ness.
>
> Duke
A bit of good sense above, IMHO.
What I keep reading in this thread, particularly since George's post of
clarification, is that a lot of folks either don't recognize,
understand, or appreciate Island (not just Hawaiian) culture. They wish
to transform it into something that maybe they might recognize,
understand, or appreciate. Tell me I'm wrong, but do I see just a tiny
hint of the old, much maligned, missionary mentality telling Islanders
what their culture ought to be?
|\|
Malamapono
Norm Roberts wrote:
> Tell me I'm wrong, but do I see just a tiny
>hint of the old, much maligned, missionary mentality telling Islanders
>what their culture ought to be?
>
>
what? the Panther a MISSIONARY? <g>
Onduma Faloon
George (smo...@aloha.net) wrote:
: Yanni is a Greek composer; his primary inspiration is Greek music. A
: Hawaiian Yanni would be of order, here.
Uh, let's not slur Greek music here. ;-) Yanni, admittedly, is Greek, but
his music really bears no resemblance to any type of Greek music at all,
unless one considers "minor key" a resemblance. Seriously, his stuff
is very non-Greek-sounding in both outlook and approach. If I had to
guess, I'd say his primary inspiration is...Kenny G. :-)
-- Onduma
George
Let me see. I have a "missionary viewpoint" because I dared to suggest that
there is still a further possible quality leap in Hawaiian music from all
the nice stuff we have now? (Sorry, I lost the original post)
Well, my friend, if you feel that a Hawaiian slack-key concert or song is
the ultimate apotheosis of what Hawaiian musicians can produce now and for
centuries to come, just name which one you are talking about so that I can
get it and listen to it. Then I'll be undoubtedly in better position to
form a well-informed opinion about your point.
Keoki
George
>If I had to
> guess, I'd say his primary inspiration is...Kenny G. :-)
Keoki
George
Re: books
I read two books of Hawaii authors this weekend, both in hopes of different
kinds enlightenment; the first, spiritual, the second, political.
The first book is "Change you must" from Nana Veary.
I made sure to turn my preconceptions off, and leave my cultural heritage
values on the coat-rack before I sat down and immersed myself in this
little book.
120 pages (and a life story) later I was wiser with three axioms:
* God is in us, it's our love, not some faraway authority one must respect
by fear. * That's great. I was always a little lackluster in the "fear of
authority" department, anyway. (Did anyone notice it on SCH? :-)
* God is not only in us, but in all things and beings around us, and it is
the love that we share that makes our world a better place * Sure, fine...
I never woke up yet, anyway, saying: awwriiight, today I'll hate
everyone!...
* One communicates good mana by loving people and forgiving for being hurt.
* My dearest Nana. How about this. If I get hit, I'll punch back the other
guy twice as hard, and have him fuss with the forgiving. So I get the mana,
and he gets the dental bill, okay? :) Perhaps (only perhaps...) if the
Hawaiians did this in the first place, this would be still the Hawaiian
Kingdom. Think about it for the next 80 years, you look so healthy, you'll
live forever anyway, dear.
I loved the part where her mother went to prey to the rain to fall
elsewhere until they finish the party. (And how incredulous her atheist
father was about her success.) If it were me, I would have pulled a
tarpaulin above the lanai simply. Well... whatever works, I guess. Nice
book. Keep up the good job, Nana.
The second was Abercrombie's "The blood of patriots" I bought it after
reading the critic in the Weekly. My hunch said Abercrombie will use this
paperback to publish his insider's views about political power and its
less-than-legal dealings, which would be politically unhealthy to publish
is a non-fiction format. I was right.
The story: a terrorist commando gets into the House of Representatives
during a session and guns down more than a hundred-fifty representatives.
(I wonder if he didn't write this book when they repealed his motion :) The
terrorists stage a quick exit, their helicopters explode above the Potomac
river, and only the questions remain: who did it, and how can they shoot
this badly?
The story unfold nicely to discover that the drug cartels themselves
finance main political supporters of the drug war (not exatly
earth-shattering news) sheds some interesting insight in the extreme-right
militia saga, corruption in power circles, paper-printing trivia and so on.
The two most important messages of the book are that "our politicians win
elections by spending more on television than their opponents"... no matter
where the money comes from, and the outcome: "In a sense, Burlane was not
surprised that somebody has opened fire on the House of Representatives;
there had long been a form of open season on the notion of democracy as
representing anything other than moneyed special interests."...
Amen. We knew it anyway, but take it from Neil. For the thriller, buy the
book. (Or watch CNN.)
Next on my "get" list: Tales of The Tikongs. Further recommendations welcome.