Photos looking back on US landing in Haiti 1994
Rob Huibers
put ousted elected president Aristide back in office. Now, at the end of
this year, the last permanent US troops in Haiti are about to leave. 16
photographs of Rob Huibers show how they arrived five years ago in an
impressive show of military force. Haiti is a remarkable country: it was
the site of the world's only successful revolt of African slaves 200 years
ago. Unfortunately, freedom brought them only poverty and oppression.
http://www.photo.nl
--
e-mail: rob.h...@inter.nl.nee
website: http://www.photo.nl
to e-mail replace last word by net
LA KAT47
>From: Rob.H...@inter.nl.nee (Rob Huibers)
>Haiti is a remarkable country: it was
>the site of the world's only successful revolt of African slaves 200 years
>ago. Unfortunately, freedom brought them only poverty and oppression.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Yes, and a United States that turned its back on the fledgling Republic.....
LA KAT
Marlene103
>the site of the world's only successful revolt of African slaves 200 years
>ago. Unfortunately, freedom brought them only poverty and oppression.
Yes, Haiti is remarkable..but don't you think as the first republic it should
have shown more for these almost 200 yrs than it is showing? I can understand
the other countries that are recently claimed their independence may require
more time but for Haiti to always look up to someone other country to bring it
out of poverty and repression is not realistic...as it has shown over and over
again it is not going to happen...and stop the blaming...
Annette
Marlene103 wrote:
*I* have read your posting at least five (5) times.....All I can say is: "What can
be done" :( BTW nice to see you back... :)
Marlene103
>Date: Mon, 18 October 1999 10:49 PM EDT
>Message-id: <380BDC3D...@sympatico.ca>
>
>I* have read your posting at least five (5) times.....All I can say is: "What
>can
>be done" :( BTW nice to see you back... :)
Thanks for the welcome, Annette..I needed a break from "la personne." she
sucked the energy out of me during our last catfight on the religious
subject...:))))
What can be done? History has shown in the 1800s the country was reunited
against a common enemy which was slavery...the overseers along with the slaves
took arms against the master...Now..the overseers are the masters..as one
person had expressed recently in a post in reference to the restavek issue in
the Corbett's list, to this day there are people who are not allowed in the
family pool, have to enter the house from the back door..don't look your
superiors in the eyes, and so on...When taking all these into consideration do
you really believe the outside world will bring freedom to a country like that?
The country has already claimed its freedom from the outside world...in the
eyes of the world Haiti is free and a sovereign nation...what's going on in
there is Haitians playing masters and slaves with their own people...so to say
that another country failed to implement freedom and saved Haiti from poverty
is making false accusation.. Unity is more realistic than saying " I lift up
my eyes to the hills. From whence does my help come? My help comes from the
Lord, who made heaven and earth.." It's about time the country and the people
stop that wishful thinking..no help will come from the hills...unity brought
the people freedom from slavery...it will take unity once again to free the
country from its condition...
Annette
Marlene103 wrote:
> >From: Annette leonard...@sympatico.ca
> >Date: Mon, 18 October 1999 10:49 PM EDT
> >Message-id: <380BDC3D...@sympatico.ca>
> >
>
> >I* have read your posting at least five (5) times.....All I can say is: "What
> >can
> >be done" :( BTW nice to see you back... :)
>
> Thanks for the welcome, Annette..I needed a break from "la personne." she
> sucked the energy out of me during our last catfight on the religious
> subject...:))))
>
> What can be done?
:)....Now....*I* did not put a question mark on "what can be done"...LOL...Did not
want to get you in any problem...Instead of attacking a person I try to
"generalize" my postings...(This takes a lot of "energy" out of me BTW...LOL...The
batteries are getting low anpil!) .. :)
> History has shown in the 1800s the country was reunited
> against a common enemy which was slavery...the overseers along with the slaves
> took arms against the master...Now..the overseers are the masters..as one
> person had expressed recently in a post in reference to the restavek issue in
> the Corbett's list, to this day there are people who are not allowed in the
> family pool, have to enter the house from the back door..don't look your
> superiors in the eyes, and so on...When taking all these into consideration do
> you really believe the outside world will bring freedom to a country like that?
> The country has already claimed its freedom from the outside world...in the
> eyes of the world Haiti is free and a sovereign nation...what's going on in
> there is Haitians playing masters and slaves with their own people...so to say
> that another country failed to implement freedom and saved Haiti from poverty
> is making false accusation.. Unity is more realistic than saying " I lift up
> my eyes to the hills. From whence does my help come? My help comes from the
> Lord, who made heaven and earth.." It's about time the country and the people
> stop that wishful thinking..no help will come from the hills...unity brought
> the people freedom from slavery...it will take unity once again to free the
> country from its condition...
*Very deep thoughts...many good points...*I* am sure this statement will get some
attention...:)
LA KAT47
>From: marle...@aol.com (Marlene103)
>It's about time the country and the people
>stop that wishful thinking..no help will come from the hills...unity brought
>the people freedom from slavery...it will take unity once again to free the
>country from its condition...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I smell revolution..........is that what you are advocating? Let's get Otello
and go!
Nice to see you back Marlene.
LA KAT
kafou
> Yes, Haiti is remarkable..but don't you think as the first
> republic it should have shown more for these almost
> 200 yrs than it is showing? I can understand
> the other countries that are recently claimed their independence
Actually, your reasoning is off the wall.... Haiti is a basket
case *SPECIFICALLY* because she has been independent for
200 years. When the British left Jamaica in 1960, they left
behind a relatively modern infrastucture... well, you get
my drift.....
Kafou
--
Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com
Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).
safia
Marlene103 wrote:
> >Haiti is a remarkable country: it was
> >the site of the world's only successful revolt of African slaves 200 years
> >ago. Unfortunately, freedom brought them only poverty and oppression.
>
> Yes, Haiti is remarkable..but don't you think as the first republic it should
> have shown more for these almost 200 yrs than it is showing? I can understand
> the other countries that are recently claimed their independence may require
> more time but for Haiti to always look up to someone other country to bring it
> out of poverty and repression is not realistic...as it has shown over and over
> again it is not going to happen...and stop the blaming...
Hey Marlene, welcome back!
safia
Marlene103 wrote:
> >From: Annette leonard...@sympatico.ca
> >Date: Mon, 18 October 1999 10:49 PM EDT
> >Message-id: <380BDC3D...@sympatico.ca>
> >
>
> >I* have read your posting at least five (5) times.....All I can say is: "What
> >can
> >be done" :( BTW nice to see you back... :)
>
> Thanks for the welcome, Annette..I needed a break from "la personne." she
> sucked the energy out of me during our last catfight on the religious
> subject...:))))
Hello to you too, Marlene :-)
[snip]
Marlene103
>Date: Tue, 19 October 1999 07:59 PM EDT
>Message-id: <380D05E2...@prodigy.net
>Hello to you too, Marlene :-)
:-))) Thank you very much Safia for your kindness as I am not strong for a
fight...I was afraid for my head when I saw your reply, :)) but you spared
me...thanks again..:-)
Marlene103
>Date: Tue, 19 October 1999 10:15 AM EDT
>Message-id: <19991019101546...@ng-cb1.aol.com>
>
>I smell revolution..........is that what you are advocating? Let's get
>Otello
>and go!
Oh my...:))) I don't have Otello's strength..may be I'll be a water carrier for
the soldiers..lol..
>
>Nice to see you back Marlene.
>LA KAT
Thanks, Kat...glad to be with you here once again...
Marlene103
>Date: Tue, 19 October 1999 11:42 AM EDT
>Message-id: <Hj0P3.13152$%62.2...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>
>Actually, your reasoning is off the wall.... Haiti is a basket
>case *SPECIFICALLY* because she has been independent for
>200 years. When the British left Jamaica in 1960, they left
>behind a relatively modern infrastucture... well, you get
>my drift.....
>>Kafou
Yes, I got your drift...So, you agree that the French didn't prepare Haitians
to govern themselves like the British did in Jamaica and because of this
oversight the Haitian people are not capable of creating this infrastructure
that you are referring to by themselves.... then why to this day Haitians are
still emulating the French as their model? Does it really take 200 years and
counting (if considering the state of the situation now and how long it will
take to get it to a crawling stage) for a country to find its way around b/c it
was left in shambled.? It remained this way b/c of the division over the
ruins...When a child sets out on his/her own the child is saying to the parents
that he/she is grown now and can take control over his/her own affairs or have
plans to do so...the world watched in amazement as Haitians play the prodigal
son...and now someone would want me to believe the world will pity the
Haitians and give them freedom and remove them from poverty by sending a few
troops now and then...come on!!! this is a failed revolution...Haitians better
come up with something concrete this time...
Sweet as honey...bitter as bile.......
Annette
Marlene103 wrote:
> ...come on!!! this is a failed revolution...Haitians better
> come up with something concrete this time...
*Talking about "something concrete" read on the news about le "Pont de ManEgue" in
Haiti... a sort of "directive" from the Leader which could be considered "maybe"
that everyone has to *help*?!......(Don't understand "the banana issue"
either...Quoted in part below:
Mais, ce week-end, le Président René Préval devait passer par là. Alors,
les riverains ont saisi l'occasion pour présenter leur doléances au chef de
l'Etat. Le président Préval n'était pas accompagné de son épouse Guerda
Benoit, qui se trouvait coincée à l'aéroport de Miami par le cyclone
Irène. Les riverains ont critiqué les retards mis dans la reconstruction du
pont par le Ministère des Travaux Publics. Préval écoute, puis formule
les recommandations suivantes: "Puisque la zone produit beaucoup de
bananes, puisqu'il y a plusieurs camions chargés de bananes qui passent
sur ce pont, pourquoi ne cotisez-vous pas pour reconstruire le pont
vous-mêmes?"
Inutile de dire que les riverains n'ont pas apprécié les remarques du
Président Préval.
>
safia
Marlene103 wrote:
> >ka...@NOSPAM.banet.net
> >Date: Tue, 19 October 1999 11:42 AM EDT
> >Message-id: <Hj0P3.13152$%62.2...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>
>
> >Actually, your reasoning is off the wall.... Haiti is a basket
> >case *SPECIFICALLY* because she has been independent for
> >200 years. When the British left Jamaica in 1960, they left
> >behind a relatively modern infrastucture... well, you get
> >my drift.....
> >>Kafou
>
> Yes, I got your drift...So, you agree that the French didn't prepare Haitians
> to govern themselves like the British did in Jamaica and because of this
> oversight the Haitian people are not capable of creating this infrastructure
> that you are referring to by themselves.... then why to this day Haitians are
> still emulating the French as their model? Does it really take 200 years and
> counting (if considering the state of the situation now and how long it will
> take to get it to a crawling stage) for a country to find its way around b/c it
> was left in shambled.? It remained this way b/c of the division over the
> ruins...When a child sets out on his/her own the child is saying to the parents
> that he/she is grown now and can take control over his/her own affairs or have
> plans to do so...the world watched in amazement as Haitians play the prodigal
> son...
The prodigal son was not a slave.
> and now someone would want me to believe the world will pity the
> Haitians and give them freedom and remove them from poverty by sending a few
> troops now and then...come on!!! this is a failed revolution...Haitians better
> come up with something concrete this time...
>
XXXX652245
<<
>Actually, your reasoning is off the wall.... Haiti is a basket
>case *SPECIFICALLY* because she has been independent for
>200 years. When the British left Jamaica in 1960, they left
>behind a relatively modern infrastucture... well, you get
>my drift.....
>>Kafou
Yes, I got your drift...So, you agree that the French didn't prepare Haitians
to govern themselves like the British did in Jamaica and because of this
oversight the Haitian people are not capable of creating this infrastructure
that you are referring to by themselves.... then why to this day Haitians are
still emulating the French as their model? >>
So you two uncle Toms want to bring the whiteman back??? Haven't we enough of
the already trampling all over our flag??? Get real!!
<<When a child sets out on his/her own the child is saying to the parents
that he/she is grown now and can take control over his/her own affairs or have
plans to do so...the world watched in amazement as Haitians play the prodigal
son...and now someone would want me to believe the world will pity the
Haitians and give them freedom and remove them from poverty by sending a few
troops now and then...come on!!! this is a failed revolution...Haitians better
come up with something concrete this time...>>
Oh! Then you don't want them to RE-colonize us? A bit too late for that, I
think. So... you want a new revolution. Last one wasn't good enough for you?
Go tell the little priest too wake up those he sacrificed for his return. I
don't know about the rest of you but I am tired to see Haitians diing to get
nowhere! Nowhere but to empty promises!
XXXX
safia
Marlene103 wrote:
> >From: safia sa...@prodigy.net
> >Date: Tue, 19 October 1999 07:59 PM EDT
> >Message-id: <380D05E2...@prodigy.net
>
> >Hello to you too, Marlene :-)
>
> :-))) Thank you very much Safia for your kindness as I am not strong for a
> fight...
LOL Yeah right!!! sounds more like you are setting me up for a fall.
> I was afraid for my head when I saw your reply, :)) but you spared
> me...thanks again..:-)
The pleasure is mine :-)
kafou
> >ka...@NOSPAM.banet.net
> >Message-id: <Hj0P3.13152$%62.2...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>
>
> >case *SPECIFICALLY* because she has been independent for
> >200 years. When the British left Jamaica in 1960, they left
> >behind a relatively modern infrastucture... well, you get
> >my drift.....
> >>Kafou
>
> Yes, I got your drift...So, you agree that the French didn't
> prepare Haitians to govern themselves like the British did
> in Jamaica
Wait..., but there is no parallel at all. The British departure
from Jamaica was a gesture of good will (as it were...). We
kicked the French out, they therefore had very little
incentive to prepare us for anything.
> and because of this oversight the Haitian people
> are not capable of creating this infrastructure
> that you are referring to by themselves.... then
> why to this day Haitians are
> still emulating the French as their model?
This condition is called mental slavery. It is
often exhibited by people who suddenly start to
identify with their oppressors... Patty Hearst
comes to mind....
> Sweet as honey...bitter as bile.......
Quite an oxymoron, ain't it?
Guava Baby
>
> On 20 Oct 1999 01:56:10 GMT marle...@aol.com (Marlene103) wrote:
> > >ka...@NOSPAM.banet.net
> > >Date: Tue, 19 October 1999 11:42 AM EDT
> > >Message-id: <Hj0P3.13152$%62.2...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>
> >
> > >Actually, your reasoning is off the wall.... Haiti is a basket
> > >case *SPECIFICALLY* because she has been independent for
> > >200 years. When the British left Jamaica in 1960, they left
> > >behind a relatively modern infrastucture... well, you get
> > >my drift.....
> > >>Kafou
> >
> > Yes, I got your drift...So, you agree that the French didn't
> > prepare Haitians to govern themselves like the British did
> > in Jamaica
>
> Wait..., but there is no parallel at all. The British departure
> from Jamaica was a gesture of good will (as it were...). We
> kicked the French out, they therefore had very little
> incentive to prepare us for anything.
Well, I'm not so sure the British did all that much to prepare Jamaica.
In 1999 looking at the two societies Jamaica may appear more modern and
stable, but I wonder how much progress it will make in the next 200
years. If you looked at Haiti in 1839 I'd imagine it seemed modern for
the time, too. I'm not trying to be critical of Jamaicans; I'm just
trying to note that JA, too, has problems, in-fighting, and considerable
instability. (And that it can take a long time for a society to recover
from a revolution. See, 20th century Russia)
> > and because of this oversight the Haitian people
> > are not capable of creating this infrastructure
> > that you are referring to by themselves.... then
> > why to this day Haitians are
> > still emulating the French as their model?
>
> This condition is called mental slavery. It is
> often exhibited by people who suddenly start to
> identify with their oppressors... Patty Hearst
> comes to mind....
I'll buy that. Also, was French culture something of a common
denominator? I'm really flaunting my ignorance here, but I'd guess that
after the revolution the Haitian population was almost exclusively
comprised of ex-slaves who hailed from a variety of African nations.
When you're trying to unite a multicultural society you have to resort
to a language you all speak. I'd guess there would be a lot of
resistance to emulating any particular African nation by the people from
other nations. Add in Kafou's point about mental slavery and the
prejudice the Haitian population had unwittingly picked up about the
superiority of French government and culture and it's not really
surprising that they chose that model. (And to be fair, practically all
the former British colonies, including the US, look to mother England
for guidance on all kinds of issues.)
Leigh
LA KAT47
Marlene:
>> :-))) Thank you very much Safia for your kindness as I am not strong for a
>> fight...
>LOL Yeah right!!! sounds more like you are setting me up for a fall.
Safia.....once I was the object of your wrath on SCH, remember? You struck
fear in my heart too......you don't know your own power I think........;)))
LA KAT
Mysteries
fear in my heart too......you don't know your own power I think........;)))
LA KAT
>>
You deserved every syllable of it.
R.
kafou
> Marlene wrote:,
>
Kafou said:
> <<
> > >Actually, your reasoning is off the wall.... Haiti is a basket
> > >case *SPECIFICALLY* because she has been independent for
> > >200 years. When the British left Jamaica in 1960, they left
> > >behind a relatively modern infrastucture... well, you get
> > >my drift.....
> >>Kafou
>
> >Yes, I got your drift...So, you agree that the French didn't
> >prepare Haitians to govern themselves like the British
> >did in Jamaica
> So you two uncle Toms want to bring the whiteman back???
> Haven't we enough of the already trampling all over
> our flag??? Get real!!
>
Like I said:
"Don't drink and post. Think, THEN post."
Kafou "But nobody ever listens to me, not that I blame them." Lobo
safia
kafou wrote:
> On 20 Oct 1999 01:56:10 GMT marle...@aol.com (Marlene103) wrote:
> > >ka...@NOSPAM.banet.net
> > >Date: Tue, 19 October 1999 11:42 AM EDT
> > >Message-id: <Hj0P3.13152$%62.2...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>
> >
> > >Actually, your reasoning is off the wall.... Haiti is a basket
> > >case *SPECIFICALLY* because she has been independent for
> > >200 years. When the British left Jamaica in 1960, they left
> > >behind a relatively modern infrastucture... well, you get
> > >my drift.....
> > >>Kafou
> >
> > Yes, I got your drift...So, you agree that the French didn't
> > prepare Haitians to govern themselves like the British did
> > in Jamaica
>
> Wait..., but there is no parallel at all. The British departure
> from Jamaica was a gesture of good will (as it were...). We
> kicked the French out, they therefore had very little
> incentive to prepare us for anything.
No fair, I was going to write this very same idea ... I said i in my heart
before you posted it :-) Seriously though, I agree with you.
>
>
> > and because of this oversight the Haitian people
> > are not capable of creating this infrastructure
> > that you are referring to by themselves.... then
> > why to this day Haitians are
> > still emulating the French as their model?
>
> This condition is called mental slavery. It is
> often exhibited by people who suddenly start to
> identify with their oppressors... Patty Hearst
> comes to mind....
>
> > Sweet as honey...bitter as bile.......
>
> Quite an oxymoron, ain't it?
>
> Kafou
kafou
> >Re: Photos looking back on US landing in Haiti 1994
>
> >Aristide the priest WAS all the above. Aristide the
> >politician is just another politician with compromised
> >morals and values.
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> This is propaganda that you are regurgitating......you
> have no real knowledge
> about his morals and values or what is in his heart.
Gee, must I spell out everything now? If you accept the
premise that he is a politician, his morals and values
are thus compromised by default and induction.....
Kafou "Sorta like the way you have become intellectually bankrupt." Lobo
XXXX652245
<< If you looked at Haiti in 1839 I'd imagine it seemed modern for
the time, too.>>
Actually Haiti WAS very modern at that time!
XXXX
safia
LA KAT47 wrote:
> >Re: Photos looking back on US landing in Haiti 1994
> >From: safia sa...@prodigy.net
> Marlene:
> >> :-))) Thank you very much Safia for your kindness as I am not strong for a
> >> fight...
> Safia:
> >LOL Yeah right!!! sounds more like you are setting me up for a fall.
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> Safia.....once I was the object of your wrath on SCH, remember? You struck
> fear in my heart too......you don't know your own power I think........;)))
What you perceive as my own power is not *my own*, but rather the
silent/invisible bond that binds us all as people AND as people (people as in
men and women) of Haitian descent.
Marlene103
>Date: Wed, 20 October 1999 12:35 AM EDT
>Message-id: <19991020003525...@ng-fi1.aol.com>
>
>Oh! Then you don't want them to RE-colonize us? A bit too late for that, I
>think. So... you want a new revolution. Last one wasn't good enough for
>you?
>Go tell the little priest too wake up those he sacrificed for his return. I
>don't know about the rest of you but I am tired to see Haitians diing to get
>nowhere! Nowhere but to empty promises!
>
>XXXX
>
>
Well, an ostrich with its head in the sand can't complain when it gets
kicked..my philosophy is if one is doing someone over and over again and keep
on getting the same result every time, then try something else....Haitians want
democracy, freedom, opportunities, most of everything Haiti doesn't have when
it comes to other developed countries, they keep pointing the fingers at
others, blaming others for their inability to acquire these things...but don't
you think a little internal look within ourselves and our society could hold
the key to solving our problems? Those things that we want will never
materialize the way that Haiti is right now...every attempt will continue to
fail...because our attitude, our behavior, our interaction with eachother are
detrimental to our own development..someone once said.."civility cost nothing
but it gets everything.." Haitians who were able to leave their country thrive
in environments where they don't have to put up with the mentality that has
held their country back for so long...then that means unless an effort is made
to change that attitude at home haitians will never be able to implement the
kind of change that will encourage the growth of development...Haiti's soil has
to be prepared to receive the seeds of democracy...and it is not at
present...that's the reason it's frustrating for Haitians as well as those who
would like to see them make progress in this world...cultivate the soil, then
plant the seeds...with a bit of rain and energy from the sun, meaning our
efforts to nurture the new growth Haiti will see democracy flourish..but,
please, we are not going anywhere with this finger pointing or placing blame...
Sweet as honey....bitter as bile....
Marlene103
>Date: Wed, 20 October 1999 07:49 AM EDT
>Message-id: <P_hP3.13722$%62.2...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>
>Wait..., but there is no parallel at all. The British departure
>from Jamaica was a gesture of good will (as it were...). We
>kicked the French out, they therefore had very little
>incentive to prepare us for anything.
As I have said, as slave the master didn't educate its slaves to be self
sufficient, thus the fault in planning the revolution lies in poor
planning...it was more of an impulsive action than a planned action...b/c if it
were in addtition to overcoming the oppressor someone should have asked "then
what?" apparently no one did...the mulattoes simply moved from overseers to
masters..so the slaves have gotten rid of the French just to be enslaved by
their overseers...they too were not in a better position to do any better..for
this reason they simply keep on looking up to some place else for inspiration
or ideas...Im sure you remember seeing kids when they don't know their lessons
they look up in the air as if the answer will pop up out of thin air..and
that's what has been going on down there...they want to claim they are free but
have no idea how to express or develop that freedom...at least the slaves
managed to bring freedom to the land, the elite could have taken it from there
considering they were the one with means to do something..
Marlene103
>Date: Wed, 20 October 1999 09:21 AM EDT
>Message-id: <380DC1...@mindspring.com>
>(And to be fair, practically all
>the former British colonies, including the US, look to mother England
>for guidance on all kinds of issues.)
>
True, but again the US made sure it wasn't going to be considered a subject
anymore and it is more of an equal now
Marlene103
>Date: Wed, 20 October 1999 01:56 AM EDT
>Message-id: <380D5980.BAC9A14E@prodigy.n
>LOL Yeah right!!! sounds more like you are setting me up for a fall.
LOL..that's what the image in the mirror said to me too...may be Im looking at
Mary Poppins...lol
Marlene103
>Date: Wed, 20 October 1999 01:56 AM EDT
>Message-id: <380D5980.BAC9A14E@prodigy.n
>The pleasure is mine :-)
I wanted to add this to the last post...but sent it by mistake...Anyway I do
appreciate the gesture...thanks again...
Guava Baby
>
> >From: Guava Baby guav...@mindspring.com
> >Date: Wed, 20 October 1999 09:21 AM EDT
> >Message-id: <380DC1...@mindspring.com>
>
> >(And to be fair, practically all
> >the former British colonies, including the US, look to mother England
> >for guidance on all kinds of issues.)
> >
>
> True, but again the US made sure it wasn't going to be considered a subject
> anymore and it is more of an equal now
With enormous natural resources, and leave us not forget, slave labor.
I'm sure Haiti has a lot of natural resources, but I doubt they have as
many per capita as the US had.
But, of course, neither of us cares so much about history and why one
country was able to do better financially than another. The real
question is what to do now. Unfortunately, I'm as clueless as anyone
else.
Leigh
kafou
Of course, I don't have to tell y'all how beautiful you
are, when you two sound like this....
Kafou "No Medusa in SCH!" Lobo ;-)
kafou
> >From: "kafou" ka...@NOSPAM.banet.net
> >Date: Wed, 20 October 1999 07:49 AM EDT
> >Message-id: <P_hP3.13722$%62.2...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>
>
> >Wait..., but there is no parallel at all. The British departure
> >from Jamaica was a gesture of good will (as it were...). We
> >kicked the French out, they therefore had very little
> >incentive to prepare us for anything.
>
> planning...it was more of an impulsive action than a planned
> action...
Most revolutions take clues from a sudden catalyst. They never
have the luxury of rehearsals.
>the mulattoes simply moved from overseers to masters..
True.
>they too were not in a better position to do any better..
Well, I have to partly disagree. The mulattoes (I hate that term)
were sons and daughters of the "colons".... some of them have
gone to France to study in prestigious Universities,
they thus had a greater share of responsibility in running
the country. I indict their selfishness, and their lack of
vision.
Kafou
LA KAT47
>You deserved every syllable of it.
>
>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
That's not for you to say. Plus you have no idea what it was
about..........you really don't.
LA KAT
LA KAT47
>Sweet as honey....bitter as bile....
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Is this like "The world can no longer afford the rich"???
LA KAT
LA KAT47
Marlene: <snip>
>> thus the fault in planning the revolution lies in poor
>> planning...it was more of an impulsive action than a planned
>> action...
>Most revolutions take clues from a sudden catalyst. They never
>have the luxury of rehearsals.
This is true...........and in my opinion this explains why Dessalines was so
effective as a revolutionary and not effective as a peacetime leader. There
are change agents and leaders and the qualities that make a person one thing,
may not be the same things that would enable them to do the other. After the
revolution is won, other people who know how to organize a government and
society are needed to build things back to where they should be, even though
some military leaders have what it takes to lead countries.
LA KAT
XXXX652245
<<Haitians want
democracy, freedom,>>
Are you sure that they want it??
<< opportunities, most of everything Haiti doesn't have when
it comes to other developed countries,>>
That they want for sure!!!
<< they keep pointing the fingers at
others, blaming others for their inability to acquire these things...>>
Yep! And every year they get better at that!
XXXX
XXXX652245
LOL..that's what the image in the mirror said to me too...may be Im looking at
Mary Poppins...lol>>
Girls, girls, girls, I wish you two would make friends! Let it go!
XXXX
XXXX652245
<<Unfortunately, I'm as clueless as anyone
else.>>
Saddam and Khadaffi have the answer! Of course we would be crushed but we
could go out in style! LOL! I was thinking of Pakistan! A coup happened and
the US is making friend with the new honcho. Why don't they want to 'return
democracy' there a la Haiti? As Safia would say:'it's a matter of gun powder!'.
They have a nuclear bomb, you know. They tested two of them against the
wishes of the WORLD!
XXXX
kafou
> >Re: Photos looking back on US landing in Haiti 1994
> >From: "kafou"
> Marlene: <snip>
> >> thus the fault in planning the revolution lies in poor
> >> planning...it was more of an impulsive action than a planned
> >> action...
> Kafou:
> >Most revolutions take clues from a sudden catalyst. They never
> >have the luxury of rehearsals.
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Lakat says:
> This is true...........and in my opinion this explains why >Dessalines was so effective as a revolutionary and not
>effective as a peacetime leader. There are change
>agents and leaders and the qualities that make a person one thing,
>may not be the same things that would enable them to do the other. >After the revolution is won, other people who
>know how to organize a government and society are needed
>to build things back to where they should be, even though
>some military leaders have what it takes to lead countries.
So true.... But closer to us, we have the illustrious
Jean Bertrand Aristide.... A powerful priest who played
a key role in getting rid of Jean-Claude Duvalier,
but who has no business being president of any country
or of a little league soccer team.
Marlene103
>Date: Thu, 21 October 1999 05:10 PM EDT
>Message-id: <19991021171028...@ng-fl1.aol.com>
>Is this like "The world can no longer afford the rich"???
>
Actually it is more in reference to the truth...
Marlene103
>Date: Thu, 21 October 1999 12:19 PM EDT
>Message-id: <d2HP3.14696$%62.2...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>
>Well, I have to partly disagree. The mulattoes (I hate that term)
>were sons and daughters of the "colons".... some of them have
>gone to France to study in prestigious Universities,
>they thus had a greater share of responsibility in running
>the country. I indict their selfishness, and their lack of
>vision.
>
I agree with you there, but to paraphrase a statement Minister Farrhakan made
on the issue of education in 1992, he said "He who gives you the diameter of
your knowledge prescribes the circumference of your activities...If your slave
master is your educator, no wonder you act like a slave." Although the
mulattoes were educated in the French system they were not educated to be free,
or to act like free men..and to me that is the extent of our problem as a
country...we've been duped by the system..I understand old tradition dies hard,
but again in whose favor should we ask?
Marlene103
>Date: Thu, 21 October 1999 05:19 PM EDT
>Message-id: <19991021171943...@ng-fl1.aol.com>
>This is true...........and in my opinion this explains why Dessalines was so
>effective as a revolutionary and not effective as a peacetime leader. There
>are change agents and leaders and the qualities that make a person one thing,
>
>may not be the same things that would enable them to do the other. After the
>revolution is won, other people who know how to organize a government and
>society are needed to build things back to where they should be, even though
>some military leaders have what it takes to lead countries.
>
That's a very good observation...and the only way other people would have a
chance to contribute or to pick up where the other left off is by allowing them
entrance to the system...that's the reason in a democracy periodic evaluation
or assessment is needed to see where a country needs to be and to move forward
in electing leaders that will lead the country to that path...One person may
come at one point with an idea that fits the country like a glove at the point
where the country is at the time, then from what was previously achieved new
progress can made...Also, the idea of trashing what was previously build must
stop...regardless of public opinion on it's beauty or ugliness it is a sign
that will remind the people where they've been, what they had achieved, and to
compare it to where they are at the present time...It is hard to ignore when
something is there to see...I believe the people as the generation passes would
have been more conscious if they have a visual reminder of their past...not
just to hear from story telling or to read it from the pages of a book, but to
actually looking at it, reflecting on it as some people learn better with
visual aid..
playboy magazine can attest to the effect of visual aid...:))))
Marlene103
>Date: Fri, 22 October 1999 08:42 AM EDT
>Message-id: <vYYP3.15361$%62.2...@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com>
>So true.... But closer to us, we have the illustrious
>Jean Bertrand Aristide.... A powerful priest who played
>a key role in getting rid of Jean-Claude Duvalier,
>but who has no business being president of any country
>or of a little league soccer team.
>
You could be right, but again based on the history and how far the country was
and to where it is now who has the vision to pick up from where he left off
rather than bringing the country back to where it was? that's the struggle
the country is facing with ...those who want to move forward and those who
would rather regress to the old Duvalier days...as we all can see no one will
be coming forth soon to do what Lakat is suggesting as long as the country
can't decide on what path to follow...
Marlene103
>Date: Thu, 21 October 1999 11:19 AM EDT
>Message-id: <380F2E...@mindspring.com>
>With enormous natural resources, and leave us not forget, slave labor.
>I'm sure Haiti has a lot of natural resources, but I doubt they have as
>many per capita as the US had.
A creative mind can achieve so much with so little..I noticed a lot of people
are going down there to admire, compliment and buy things that Haitians had
created out of everyday thrown away items..it's fascinating..and with the issue
of recycling taking a strong hold on people these days you'll see more
admiration for Haitians recycling ideas...It shows the capita may not be there
but the creativity can be channeled into creating great work..from what is
already there so many things can be made possible...what I hate to see is when
someone else comes forth and start using his/her ideas suddenly the people
become resentful, they get angry, and they feel exploited...I understand their
frustration but what should be learned is that a little creativity can go a
long way with very little...In Haiti most people don't recognize the value of
what they have...for instance when I drive up to Martissant by the Royal
Haitian Club...the view across the club is a view to behold...where else you'll
see such view loaded with trash? Not in a city that values "by the bay"
properties.. but wait and see as soon as a foreigner investor comes along and
decides to invest to develop that area and either sold it or rent it to people
who can afford and enjoy such location...everyone will go berserk with blames,
oh those foreigners are stealing our best valuable peace of land and so
on...::)))))
Guava Baby
Absolutely, plus the India-Pakistan thing scares a lot of people. That's
one of the regions that half the world is just waiting to erupt into
massive bloodshed and no one wants the ignomious distinction of having
lit the fuse.
Leigh
Guava Baby
>
> >From: Guava Baby guav...@mindspring.com
> >Date: Thu, 21 October 1999 11:19 AM EDT
> >Message-id: <380F2E...@mindspring.com>
>
> >With enormous natural resources, and leave us not forget, slave labor.
> >I'm sure Haiti has a lot of natural resources, but I doubt they have as
> >many per capita as the US had.
>
> A creative mind can achieve so much with so little..
Absolutely, but it takes a gold rush to build schools and roads.
> I noticed a lot of people
> are going down there to admire, compliment and buy things that Haitians had
> created out of everyday thrown away items..
I'll buy that. Haitian art and crafts seem to be growing in popularity
at an extremely fast rate. And I don't really mean the touristy stuff
that competes with Mexican art to people who can't tell the difference
(not that I mind that), but the more serious art that major museums and
collectors focus on.
Leigh
Mysteries
at an extremely fast rate. And I don't really mean the touristy stuff
that competes with Mexican art to people who can't tell the difference
(not that I mind that), but the more serious art that major museums and
collectors focus on.
Leigh >>
I would say that is only partially true. The fact is that all the art worth
anything ( I mean the old master stuff Lakat) is in private collections in
Haiti, Europe and the US.
The most recent art phenomenon from Haiti are the 'artifying' of the Vodou
flags where flagmakers are making the transition from artisans to artists and
being collected under their own names.
But painting is at a real low and sculpture has always been a struggle becaus
eof the lack of wood and metalwork is a craft now at best with only a couple of
exceptions.
What should happen now that trade is a little more controllable is that several
craft groups get together and start working with local clay etc and really get
Haitian crafts up again as a viable commodity.
Haitian art is not Haitian craft.
R>
Guava Baby
>
> I would say that is only partially true. The fact is that all the art worth
> anything ( I mean the old master stuff Lakat) is in private collections in
> Haiti, Europe and the US.
But don't you think it's gaining recognition? And if so shouldn't that
foster more interest in new Haitian art (by both artists and
collectors)?
> Haitian art is not Haitian craft.
Didn't mean to suggest that it was, but interest in one often generates
interest in the other, or perhaps I've misunderstood what you meant by
this sentence.
BTW, I meant to respond to your post re: men and fluffy women but my
newsreader ate it. Yes, out of laziness I castigated all or most men
when I should've qualified my statement. What I really meant was that
few people of either gender want to feel challenged by their mate. I
guess most people have enough to contend with in the outside world so
when they come home they want unqualified (or only slightly qualified)
support. I certainly sympathize with this attitude, but, while no shrew,
I am outspoken and when I am disappointed with my boyfriend's actions or
words I will say so forthrightly and I think this is not so appealing to
many people.
I really am sweet as guava, though - honest!
Leigh
Mysteries
foster more interest in new Haitian art (by both artists and
collectors)? >>
What is really happening, Guava, is that Haitian art is finally being accepted
by collectors of African-american self-taught artists. Its recognition factor
is way up bu tit is really on a plateau. We will know when we hit the next
level when we see one-person shows by great Haitian artists.
<< Didn't mean to suggest that it was, but interest in one often generates
interest in the other, or perhaps I've misunderstood what you meant by
this sentence. >>
Yes that is very true. But the scarcity of supplies and real non-tampering
support by dealers has hurt it.
<< What I really meant was that
few people of either gender want to feel challenged by their mate. >>
I just can't relate to this. Hold on. It doesnt have to be true.
Guava Baby
>
> What is really happening, Guava, is that Haitian art is finally being accepted
> by collectors of African-american self-taught artists. Its recognition factor
> is way up bu tit is really on a plateau. We will know when we hit the next
> level when we see one-person shows by great Haitian artists.
And when their name comes first and the fact of their being Haitian
comes second, if you know what I mean.
> << What I really meant was that
> few people of either gender want to feel challenged by their mate. >>
>
> I just can't relate to this. Hold on. It doesnt have to be true.
Well, I sincerely hope you're right.
Leigh
Mysteries
comes second, if you know what I mean >>
I know what you mean but it ain't true here. we've been working too hard to
make it otherwise. It is the name and the Haitianess and the Creole-Diasporic
vision that makes it work
Guava Baby
I guess what I meant was more that they were known for their work and
not being marketed as "exotic." I can picture too many art buyers being
pitched with the third world chic angle that I feel is ultimately
defeating. (And incredibly patronizing, of course.)
Leigh
LA KAT47
>From: marle...@aol.com (Marlene103)
Kat:
>>Is this like "The world can no longer afford the rich"???
>>
>Actually it is more in reference to the truth...
OOOOOOOOO I'm telling Otello!!!!!!!!!!!
LA KAT
Mysteries
pitched with the third world chic angle that I feel is ultimately
defeating. (And incredibly patronizing, of course.)
Leigh
>>
You let me know where people who think the third world is 'chic' are (other
than the reggae newsgroup...grin)
R.
LA KAT47
>So true.... But closer to us, we have the illustrious
>Jean Bertrand Aristide.... A powerful priest who played
>a key role in getting rid of Jean-Claude Duvalier,
>but who has no business being president of any country
>or of a little league soccer team.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I will admit that this has occurred to me. He is a revolutionary.....but to be
honest, the revolution hasn't been won yet.....his work is not finished. Also
another factor, while he might not have been adept at world politics, he had
and still has one thing no other candidate has demonstrated.........his love of
country and countrymen....his mission to help Haiti heal and be whole so her
people can too. If given free rein, this is what I believe he will do.
LA KAT
LA KAT47
>You could be right, but again based on the history and how far the country
>was
>and to where it is now who has the vision to pick up from where he left off
>rather than bringing the country back to where it was? that's the struggle
>the country is facing with ...those who want to move forward and those who
>would rather regress to the old Duvalier days...as we all can see no one will
>be coming forth soon to do what Lakat is suggesting as long as the country
>can't decide on what path to follow...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ah Marlene! Sometimes it is as though we are of one mind! It is so comforting
to me, as I have told you before. I want so much for Haiti to get better,
frankly I don't care how I just want it done so it is good for the long
haul.........and unfortunately that is not going to happen overnight.
LA KAT
kafou
> >Re: Photos looking back on US landing in Haiti 1994
>
> >So true.... But closer to us, we have the illustrious
> >Jean Bertrand Aristide.... A powerful priest who played
> >a key role in getting rid of Jean-Claude Duvalier,
> >but who has no business being president of any country
> >or of a little league soccer team.
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> I will admit that this has occurred to me.
Like I said:
"Nothing is ever lost in nature, including man." ;-)
>while he might not have been adept at world politics, he had
> and still has one thing no other candidate has
> demonstrated.........his love of country and countrymen....
Aristide the priest WAS all the above. Aristide the
politician is just another politician with compromised
morals and values.
> his mission to help Haiti heal and be whole so her
> people can too. If given free rein, this is what
> I believe he will do.
Cool, and I am still selling stocks of the Brooklyn bridge?
Kafou "How many shares did you want again?" Lobo
LA KAT47
>I guess what I meant was more that they were known for their work and
>not being marketed as "exotic." I can picture too many art buyers being
>pitched with the third world chic angle that I feel is ultimately
>defeating. (And incredibly patronizing, of course.)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Egads!! I have to jump in here. First of all, Haitian Art is a school of art,
an art form all its own. It is not kitsch ya know! It needs no
legitimacy.......it's legit already thank you! If people are discovering it,
they are RE-discovering it. You don't have to be Haitian to do it.....but it
helps. And it isn't like Jamaican art or Barbadian art or any other island
art.....it is a phenomenon. A happening. In the heyday of Haiti, every third
person was an artist or made his/her living from art of one form or another.
While it's nice to be recognized (Martino insists he become famous BEFORE his
death!), being able to support one's self with one's art is gratifying enough.
(Leigh, for your info, since most of SCH knows about me and my husband,
Martino, he is a wonderful watercolor artist from Haiti and we make our living
entirely from the sale of his art in art festivals mostly in California....two
in Scottsdale, AZ.....and we sell it as HAITIAN ART!!!!! YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!)
LA KAT
LA KAT47
>Aristide the priest WAS all the above. Aristide the
>politician is just another politician with compromised
>morals and values.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
This is propaganda that you are regurgitating......you have no real knowledge
about his morals and values or what is in his heart.
LA KAT
safia
XXXX652245 wrote:
No comment
Guava Baby
>
> >Re: Photos looking back on US landing in Haiti 1994
>
> >I guess what I meant was more that they were known for their work and
> >not being marketed as "exotic." I can picture too many art buyers being
> >pitched with the third world chic angle that I feel is ultimately
> >defeating. (And incredibly patronizing, of course.)
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> Egads!! I have to jump in here. First of all, Haitian Art is a school of art,
> an art form all its own. It is not kitsch ya know!
I know it, although alas all I've got in my wee home is the low-rent
variety. (Not kitsch, but mass produced.) What I'm talking about are the
people who'll buy Haitian art today and eat Ethiopian food tomorrow and
then wear saris the next day and you ask them why and they just don't
know. They read in some magazine that it was hip so they did it. Heh,
heh - lakat, perhaps you've seen that episode of Absolutely Fabulous
where Edina decides to collect art. Very, very amusing. Over the top, of
course, but I think there's some basis underneath the outlandish humor.
And I didn't mean to suggest that Haitian artists in any way downplay
the fact that they make Haitian art but rather that the goal would
presumably be met the day that art buyers and museum goers are
sufficiently knowledgeable about Haitian art that they'll respond more
to the individual artists' names than just the genre. After all, if
you're advertising a Monet exhibit you don't say "A French
Impressionist," or "Monet - French Impressionist." You just say "Monet"
and people know. That's all I meant by my comment.
Leigh
Mysteries
people who'll buy Haitian art today and eat Ethiopian food tomorrow and
then wear saris the next day and you ask them why and they just don't
know. >>
Is there something wrong with living multi-culturally? You are on a Haiti list
and at least one Jamaican list? Is that any better?
This is another generalization that I am not comfortable with. If non-Western
art is part of our lives then more power to it. Why stand aside and mock
people? Are they just supposed to eat your Roast Beef?
<< that art buyers and museum goers are
sufficiently knowledgeable about Haitian art that they'll respond more
to the individual artists' names than just the genre. >>
This is always the goal. But you know how it happens? By people seriously
collecting them that way first and not supporting the bad imitations.
Right now there are four directions to Haitian Art:
1- The Old Masters and the legitimate self-taught artists who come after them
2- The craft-painters who make the airport art and who are able somewhat to
support themselves this way. This is craft not art.
3-The legitimate Trained painters of Haiti
4- The painters in the Haitian Diaspora many
of whom are trained and are getting shows here without enough support.
Haitian Art as a phrase is out of sync because it includes trained as well as
untrained artists and doesnt just mean the self-taught style of work.
As with all artists the best way to support it is to wisely collect it.
R>
Mysteries
an art form all its own. >>
Well-meant but absolutely untrue. It is art with its own African-Caribbean
roots. It is not an artform all its own. There is a style that is
unmistakeably Haitian like in music or dance.
<< It is not kitsch ya know! It needs no
legitimacy......If people are discovering it,
they are RE-discovering it. >>
We agree here completely.
<< And it isn't like Jamaican art or Barbadian art or any other island
art.....it is a phenomenon. >>
Just not true, Lakat. Because the books aren't yet written doesn't mean the
information doesn't exist. Before I wrote about Haitian art or did the catalog
on Jamaican art people said those aspects didn't exist either. (I am not saying
I discovered Haitian self-taught artists ok?) but there is a lot of history
involved here. Suffice it to say that the way we have been given the history
of Haitian Art is extremely inaccurate and Eurocentric. The art rose directly
and powerfully from the Creole and Creolized culture.
R>
Guava Baby
>
> << What I'm talking about are the
> people who'll buy Haitian art today and eat Ethiopian food tomorrow and
> then wear saris the next day and you ask them why and they just don't
> know. >>
>
> Is there something wrong with living multi-culturally? You are on a Haiti list
> and at least one Jamaican list? Is that any better?
Yes. I have a genuine, long-term interest in the Caribbean. I'm surely
no expert, but my interest is sincere and does not fluxtuate based on
what Vanity Fair tells me I *should* be interested in. Maybe you've just
been fortunate enough to avoid the culture-trendies, but there are
people out there who are "all about" one culture one week and another
another week and their interest is superficial to say the least. Look at
all the kids wearing "free Tibet" t-shirts. I bet you not 1 in 1,000
could actually find Tibet on a map. Probably only 10% could tell you who
Tibet should be freed from. I don't want to squelch anyone's enthusiasm,
I'm merely remarking that I find flirting with other people's cultures
to be patronizing and not a great way to promote the art of said
cultures.
Leigh
Mysteries
no expert, but my interest is sincere and does not fluxtuate based on
what Vanity Fair tells me I *should* be interested in. >>
You are the true culture lover then and all the others they're just trendies.
<< who are "all about" one culture one week and another
another week and their interest is superficial to say the least. Look at
all the kids wearing "free Tibet" t-shirts. I bet you not 1 in 1,000
could actually find Tibet on a map. >>
If their tee-shirt money goes to the Tibetan cause who cares? You want your
cake and eat it to it seems. A lot of white people get attached to a place and
then it becomes 'their' place and all others are shallow interlopers. It's a
syndrome. Be careful. I wouldn't know what it says in Vanity Fair but you
seem to read it.
<< I'm merely remarking that I find flirting with other people's cultures
to be patronizing and not a great way to promote the art of said
cultures.
Leigh >>
We all had to start somewhere, even the Caribbean people who flirted with rock
and roll and hot dogs.....I would have a little more compassion, Leigh, it just
isn't as black and white as you are making out to be....just like with your
pronouncements on how 'men' think.
R>
Annette
Mysteries wrote:
> << I'm surely
> no expert, but my interest is sincere and does not fluxtuate based on
> what Vanity Fair tells me I *should* be interested in. >>
>
> You are the true culture lover then and all the others they're just trendies.
>
> << who are "all about" one culture one week and another
> another week and their interest is superficial to say the least. Look at
> all the kids wearing "free Tibet" t-shirts. I bet you not 1 in 1,000
> could actually find Tibet on a map. >>
>
> If their tee-shirt money goes to the Tibetan cause who cares?
*Hold your horses here my friend :) Let's get back on track and think *if* those
T-shirts were inscribed *Haiti!*...Those children, by exposing themselves wearing
those shirts would "demonstrate" that they believe in the good governance of it's
Country...(I will not post question marks on *my* affirmation BTW...also, if *I*
would be the salesperson or a "cueillette de fonds" or whatever, exemple "pots and
pans" for a certain country *I* would expect and would "follow-up" if the
monies/products had reached their destinations...also *I* would expect "un compte
rendu!"...
> You want your
> cake and eat it to it seems. A lot of white people get attached to a place
> andthen it becomes 'their' place and all others are shallow interlopers.
*Persons who work let us say in underdeveloped countries usually concentrate on
*one* destination...(Did not have the chance to visit other countries where
international aid is distributed...only *Haiti*...so for me, found a special
interest in this particular Country...
> It's a syndrome. Be careful. I wouldn't know what it says in Vanity Fair but
> you seem to read it.
I thought "Vanity Fair" was a fashion magazine...anyway did not read on Haiti, went
there "in person" and experienced it fully...
> << I'm merely remarking that I find flirting with other people's cultures
> to be patronizing and not a great way to promote the art of said
> cultures.
> Leigh >>
>
> We all had to start somewhere, even the Caribbean people who flirted with rock
> and roll and hot dogs.....I would have a little more compassion, Leigh, it just
> isn't as black and white as you are making out to be....just like with your
> pronouncements on how 'men' think.
> R>
*Never had the chance to really get friendly with "Haitian women"...guess it was
because *I was White!! (Maybe...)...
kaysee
thinking - something that is in style today and out tomorrow, without a
serious appreciation for the artistic aspects of the music or the culture
behind the music. Band-wagon-jumping.
kaysee
Mysteries wrote in message <19991022180247...@ng-cs1.aol.com>...
LA KAT47
>Kafou "Sorta like the way you have become intellectually bankrupt." Lobo
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ouch that hurts.......;)
LA KAT
Marlene103
>Date: Fri, 22 October 1999 11:46 AM EDT
>Message-id: <19991022114638...@ng-ff1.aol.com>
>
>What should happen now that trade is a little more controllable is that
>several
>craft groups get together and start working with local clay etc and really
>get
>Haitian crafts up again as a viable commodity.
Since you mentioned clay, I remember driving to Jacmel and I saw an area which
I don't remember the exact location as Im not very familiar with this part of
the country. The soil was very red like materials used in pottery, and it was
being washed down the street I think from rain...I took a pic of it as I
wished something could be done to put this soil to good use.
Mysteries
which
I don't remember the exact location as Im not very familiar with this part of
the country. The soil was very red like materials used in pottery, and it was
being washed down the street I think from rain...I took a pic of it as I
wished something could be done to put this soil to good use. >>
When I was really young I remember my father bringing home several examples of
Haitian pottery that were lovely. I am sure the clay is there.
Annette
Marlene103 wrote:
> >From: myst...@aol.com (Mysteries)
> >Date: Fri, 22 October 1999 11:46 AM EDT
> >Message-id: <19991022114638...@ng-ff1.aol.com>
> >
>
> Since you mentioned clay, I remember driving to Jacmel and I saw an area which
> I don't remember the exact location as Im not very familiar with this part of
> the country.
*Went to "Jacmel" once...(to visit some Canadian friends there at the time)...they
were teaching "for fun that is" some residents how to irrigate their small plot of
land for better gardening...I also remember "that road!!"...I was told it had (365
curves!) one for every day of the year!...(If I remember correctly to build that
road there were many tractor accidents due in majority for the "lack of experience"
of the Haitians in driving those bulldozers...) ... Now, that is "many years
ago!"...But thinking back it came to mind....)
> The soil was very red like materials used in pottery, and it was
> being washed down the street I think from rain...I took a pic of it as I
> wished something could be done to put this soil to good use.
I wonder if that is where there is a "black-sand beach".....(Gee! I did not take
pictures of the country-side on that trip!) :(
Marlene103
>Date: Mon, 25 October 1999 10:51 AM EDT
>Message-id: <38146E02...@sympatico.ca>
>.I also remember "that road!!"...I was told it had (365
>curves!) one for every day of the year!...(If I remember correctly to build
>that
>road there were many tractor accidents due in majority for the "lack of
>experience"
>of the Haitians in driving those
>bulldozers...)
LOL..funny you will say that...I know about those curves and no one believes it
is a lack of driving experience that causes so many accidents..I drove myself
through those curves as I have done many times through heavy snow going through
the mountains here, but down there my parents told me to watch out because the
legends have it those curves and those mountains have something mysterious
about them...If I pay close attention I can hear the sound of those engines and
what that means is "kinbe do'w" hold your back..:)) when climbing "morne
tapion" and pray...As I went up in a good dependable vehicle I pointed out to
my passenger the overcrowded trucks that are struggling to make it up the
mountains,and the reliability of the vehicle itself is another factor..too
many drivers simply pay someone to get them a driver's licence to go out there
and drive with no tangible experience in handling the unexpected...and they
panic easily .although the roads are better in that area, these things cannot
be ignored....the next day after my visit 50 people were killed and countless
others were injured when a driver lost control of his truck while coming down
the mountains and collided with a private vehicle that was on its way
up....Thus, some of the legends that most Haitians grew up with about "morne
tapion" and the danger associated with that area have more to do with the
reality of the situation than with something mysterious..
Another driver told me unless I drive through those small corridors and bring
the car out in one piece...and the car better be a standard shift...otherwise
Im not yet a driver:))) ...driving through snow doesn't count...
Let my people go..:)))
Annette
Marlene103 wrote:
Interesting anpil!!....:) (BTW I used that expression often from "Shoo Blak" *Kenbe
do'm!!*...:) Ce serieux-wi!! LOL