American Houngan and Mambo arbitrarily arrested and imprisoned in Port-au-Prince
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Houngan Tounen Sa Li Vle Daginen; and Roots Without End
Society Mambo Lisa Gruber, Bon Mambo Trois Bagues
Trois Fois Force Bien Frais Daginen; were arrested on the
morning of July 24, 2007, at the Port-au-Prince international
airport. Both are American citizens by birth, and Houngan
Louvel Delon has some Haitian heritage on his father's side.
Both were arrested by an officer of the airport security
service, who took exception to their possession of two
sacred skulls. Although they had violated no Haitian law,
the two were placed in custody by the airport security
officer, who had no authority to do so in the first place
since there is no law against possession of skulls.
Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber received
those sacred ancestral skulls from Haitian Houngan Luckner
St. Louis of Jacmel. He gave them two skulls, those of a
long-dead Houngan and Mambo of his own biological family
line, so that the spirits within them could go to the USA and
enable Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber
to perform certain Vodou services.
There is no law whatsoever in Haiti forbidding the
ownership of skulls - if there were, virtually every Houngan,
Mambo, and bokor in Haiti, not to mention a few others,
would be in prison! These sacred objects are served with
their libations and their food, their candles and their objects,
being served and venerated as our tradition requires.
Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber have not
violated any law regarding the transporting of bones, either.
There are laws in Haiti regulating the transport of cadavers,
and laws against desecration of graves, neither of which
pertain to the case of Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo
Lisa Gruber, who were in possession of dry, clean, ancient
bones, and who have not desecrated any grave whatsoever.
On July 25, Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber
were charged with "trafficking in human body parts" and
imprisoned indefinitely until trial, despite the fact that they had
not bought the skulls for money and did not plan to sell them!
The sham trial lasted no more than a few minutes, and
was conducted by a militantly Protestant "Commissaire"
who served as prosecuting attorney, judge, and jury all in
one. The two Americans speak no Creole, and had no
interpreter or lawyer present.
Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber were then
transported to the Penetencier National and the Petionville
women's prison, respectively. Reports indicate that
Houngan Louvel was beaten other prisoners and robbed
of his money, a common practice with newly
incarcerated individuals. In the meanwhile Mambo Lisa,
shocked by events, became ill and had to be transported
immediately to the Port-au-Pince General Hospital, itself
a facility of very dubious quality.
It is an outrage against all principles of law, as well as
against the basic principles of human rights, that these two
individuals should be treated in such a degrading way.
Mambo Lisa Gruber is an educator in the USA, Houngan
Louvel Delon is a writer, and the couple own and manage a
bookstore. These are not murderers who, having killed,
attempt to ship a body out of the country! Neither were they
selling kidneys and corneas - in fact, they didn't buy the
skulls at all, but instead received them from a Haitian
Houngan in the course of a Haitian Vodou ceremony.
It is staggering to we the leaders and members of the
Roots Without End Society that major crimes such as
kidnapping, murder and armed robbery committed with
regularity in the streets of Port-au-Prince go unpunished,
while the august justice system of Haiti wastes its time
with a Houngan and a Mambo carrying two long-dead
ancestral skulls, to which we have every right and with
which we practice our religion!
The Roots Without End Society, led by Mambo Racine Sans
Bout, appeals to the Haitian Ministry of Culture and to President
Rene Preval, to intervene and hold up the name and the
worth of the Vodou religion! We are not criminals or thieves,
we are clergy of a religion more ancient than Christianity.
Our Houngans and Mambos, our rites, our sacred objects,
must be respected.
The Roots Without End Society demands the immediate and
unconditional liberation of Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo
Lisa Gruber. We demand that our tradition and our sacred
objects be accorded the same respect as those of any
Catholic priest or Protestant pastor in Haiti. We demand
that the ancestral skulls be immediately returned to their
descendant, Houngan Luckner St. Louis. We denounce
the scapegoating of our two members, considering
that skulls have been going and coming back and forth to
Haiti in the hands of Houngans and Mambos for decades if
not centuries, and never has their been any objection from
the Haitian authorities or American Customs, through
which several Roots Without End Society Houngans
and Mambos have passed from year to year, accompanied
by ancestral skulls. Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo
Lisa Gruber are victims of religious persecution, which
is outlawed by the Hatian Constitution and the United
Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to
which Haiti is signatory.
At this time the Roots Without End Society, aided by
Haitian attorney Louifort Laguerre of Jacmel,
and American attorney Timothy O'Leary of Easthampton,
Massachusetts, are now establishing a fund for the legal
defense of Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber,
and for their maintainence and support while they remain
cruelly and arbitrarily imprisoned in two of the worst prisons
on earth, for no crime other than practicing the Vodou
religion in the same manner as the Houngans and
Mambos of Haiti have always done.
Liberation for Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa
Gruber! Respect for Vodou and Vodouisants worldwide!
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
annick....@gmail.com
Le transport des "reliques saintes" est-il réglementé en Haïti? Il
devrait l'être...patrimoine culturel...Mais on connaît le pillage
mondial clandestin de beaucoup d'objets cultuels de la part de gens
prêts à payer des fortunes pour les posséder.Le marché de l'art et le
marché des objets cultuels sont confondus à notre époque.Un marché
très juteux.
Pardon Mambo Racine si ce n'est pas le cas...mais Haïti a le droit de
protéger son patrimoine cultuel ou culturel comme tu voudras.
Peace and love.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
> Le transport des "reliques saintes" est-il réglementé en Haïti? Il
> devrait l'être...patrimoine culturel...Mais on connaît le pillage
> mondial clandestin de beaucoup d'objets cultuels de la part de gens
> prêts à payer des fortunes pour les posséder.Le marché de l'art et le
> marché des objets cultuels sont confondus à notre époque.Un marché
> très juteux.
That's true, and that's a good point.
> Pardon Mambo Racine si ce n'est pas le cas...
You're right, this isn't the case with Houngan Louvel
Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber. They were given
these skulls by a Houngan, in the course of their
religious training. He wanted them to have those
skulls, which come from his own lineage.
He was happy, they were happy, the spirits were
happy, the only one who wasn't happy was the
airport security, still smarting from the spanking
they got from the US government over the case
of Myrlene Severe, the Haitian woman who arrived
in Ft. Lauderdale with a human head. And she,
if you please, NEVER spent a night in jail! She
got a $1000 fine and that's all.
Peace and love,
Mambo Racine
annick....@gmail.com
Ces "reliques "devaient-elles revenir sur la terre des ancêtres?Ou
s'expatrier définitivement...se "délocaliser" en somme..
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
> Ces "reliques "devaient-elles revenir sur la terre des ancêtres?Ou
> s'expatrier définitivement...
That is up to US, the clergy of the Vodou religion.
The skulls are those of a Houngan and Mambo,
given to Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa
Gruber by Houngan Luckner St. Louis of Jacmel
in the course of Vodou ceremony.
Return, not return, makes no difference at this moment,
because the issue at this moment is that two Vodou
clergy are in PRISON for doing what every other Houngan
and Mambo does - caring for and venerating the bones
of our ancestors.
These two young people, professionals in their
twenties, are two of the most sincere, respectful
people I have ever initiated! They don't deserve
this. Especially considering that the Haitian
Mambo who brought a skull, or a head, to Ft.
Lauderdale never slept a night in prison, but was
given bail, and finally probabtion and a fine.
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian proverb
The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
The Roots Without End Society - http://www.rootswithoutend.org/index.php
Mambo Racine's Vodou Forum - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mambo_Racines_Vodou_Forum
The Vodou Emporium - http://www.rootswithoutend.org/emporium.php
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
boulou
One might argue that the transport of skulls is an affront
to good taste and decency, don't you agree?
K.
leone
> http://www.vodouaid.org
Racine,
Have you been to visit them, take them some food etc?
I heard a rumor you left Haiti after this.
True or not?
L.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
> One might argue that the transport of skulls is an affront
> to good taste and decency, don't you agree?
No, I DON'T.
Those skulls are the sacred, consecrated
relics of our ancestors, biological or
through initiatory lineage. They were given
by a Haitian Houngan to an American Houngan
who is half-Haitian on his father's side.
It is we, the clergy of this religion, who decide
what is appropriate in our faith and what is not.
I remind the gentle readers that sacred bones
and other body parts are also venerated by the
Roman Catholic church and by many other
religions.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
All kinds of sick, filthy rumors are flying about the two
Americans arrested, and even about me! They are evil
magicians, I am extorting people for money, all kinds
of insane stuff.
Here's what happened:
I stayed in Haiti for several days after the two were
arrested, coordinating lawyers, trying to reach family
members and so on. But all I had was a cell phone.
No internet access, and even when the internet
is available, then of course the electricity goes out.
No access to my bank accounts. And so on.
Every time I turned around, the two were somewhere
else - a police station, a Tribunal de la Paix, another
police station, back to the Tribunal, back to the
police station, to Parquet... I was very lucky that
an interested bystander, a fellow totally unknown to
us, stayed with them on his own initiative, and
let them use his cell phone. I still haven't met that
Good Samaritan.
Now, the week after the kanzo is for me and my boyfriend
Loulou Prince. We only see each other once every
six months, now that I am working in the USA. As you
may know, a kanzo is exhausting work. I weigh fifteen
pounds less now than I did when I went to Haiti!
So we were looking forward to a week of warm surf
and warm sand and fresh lobster and rum and
Coke and snapper and banan peze, you know? But
when I saw that the two Americans were not
released quickly, as we all had expected, I gave up
even that, even those few days with my love,
and came home. There's no warrant for me, I am not
in any particular trouble, so I was free to travel. I
was sad about it, my boyfriend likewise, but what to
do?
Now that I am here, and have internet access 24/7,
telephone, bank access, all that good stuff, I've
been able to get money, food and lawyers to both
Americans. We hope for an early release, since
after all there is no criminal intent. They were
not smuggling, they didn't kill anyone, they were
not selling organs. They are simply doing what
every other Houngan and Mambo in Haiti does.
For more information, see:
Peace and love,
leone
citizens being thrown in jail after visiting an American mambo and
attempting to take "souvenirs" home with them. I asked who the mambo
was and they didn't know but said she left. Once I heard that I
automatically figured it couldn't be you, not your style to run from
conflict. However, I am now happy to hear you were the mysterious US
mambo as they're in good hands. I still haven't figured out what law
they broke and I've asked a couple of attorneys in Haiti who don't get
it either. Grave robbing is illegal but possession of a skull, finger
or whatever is not. [not my cup of tea, but to each their own]
You might suggest others ship such things ahead via DHL or UPS from
Port au Prince.
I'm in search of some serious wanga for my luggage to ward off those
thieves in baggage at the airport myself. : )
Good luck to you !
L.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Thank you!
Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber,
to their everlasting credit, have based their defense
on religious freedom issues.
Jaime G
ON'T.
>
> Those skulls are the sacred, consecrated
> relics of our ancestors, biological or
> through initiatory lineage. They were given
> by a Haitian Houngan to an American Houngan
> who is half-Haitian on his father's side.
No, they are DEAD BONE. Mere calcium, for the most part, devoid of
electromagnetic activity. Houngans are liars, like other priests
everywhere. Religion is fake.
--
"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum" -- Lucretius
Jaime G
sou...@msn.com
A young lady who first came to Haiti to teach savages about democracy!
Though her real ambitions were to make money and get laid! She
succeeded on both of her deeds but with the newly acquired taste of
money she had to come back on her own to the source. As a professional
liar, she, first, pretended to be a full pledged Manbo and a secret
society queen at the same time! Later, she had to be initiated again
by a reputable hougan in Jacmel. He thought that she was not qualified
to be ordained as a Manbo. She threatened him to complain to police
and have him arrested. That is how she got her second initiation...
This is just to give you a little background of whom we are talking
about: Racine sans bout!
Her latest activities are very sad. Two people are in jail and their
spiritual mother abandons them to the rotten reality of Haitian
overcrowded jails where there is hardly any food, water, toilet
accommodations, where prisoners survive when their family comes
everyday to bring them what they need to survive. Meanwhile smart
Kathy gets back to the States with the money she got from them. She
writes an unbelievable story stating that this unfortunate couple who
were supposed to have gotten all the "protection" on earth through
their initiation was arrested for carrying some skulls that she
defines as "sacred objects", the ancestors of a Jacmel's hougan...
So much for all the lies, I am sure that there is much more to the
story than that, even if that could be considered as true. As Kathy
Grey is trying to raise another big amount of money of the back of two
stranded individuals, we, in Haiti, would like to help those poor
folks, yet we cannot rely on Kathy's story and we have no idea who
those people are. We know that Kathy has always been into drugs... what
about her initiates? Why Kathy has not immediately contacted the
American Embassy? That would be the normal thing to do.
We feel very sorry for the couple who could be in jail for years and
very ashamed of someone who calls herself "Manbo" who just doesn't
care.
yttrx
I for one and not so sure they're in good hands, and I have no
reason to be sure.
There are a lot...and I mean *a lot* of people who have become aware
of this situation and are not at all happy with what they're hearing--
which is consistently either conflicting information about where to
send money (and oddly no other kind of help), or otherwise nothing
at all.
So, out with it Racine. What exactly are you doing to get them out
of prison NOW? And why aren't you asking for more (and other) kinds
of help?
A lot of people want to know, especially me.
-----yttrx
yttrx
Sou...@msn.com does not work. Please send an email address that
works to yt...@yttrx.net. I'd like very much to speak with you.
-----yttrx
yttrx
I said, a lot of people want to know, Kathy.
Especially me.
We'd appreciate an answer.
-----yttrx
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
> So, out with it Racine. What exactly are you doing to get them out
> of prison NOW?
As you are probably aware, we have a website
raising money, and a trust fund to administer it.
And we have a lawyer who is representing them.
I have been in contact with all sorts of people, and
I don't think I have to spell it out here. We have
also taken cash and food to both Americans,
and will continue to do so regularly.
> And why aren't you asking for more (and other) kinds
> of help?
What, military action? Come on! And let me
remind you that I did not give the two Americans
those skulls. I gave them a KANZO, a Vodou
initiation, as I have done for over 200 internationals.
They decided to work with another Houngan, and
he presented them with two sacred ancestral
skulls that belonged to him.
They are all clergy, and that is their decision.
I am not responsible for their decision, they
are adults. However, they are my initiatory
children and therefore I am doing my best to
help them. In fact, while I was still in Haiti
I put myself at some risk in an effort to keep
their case from going farther - to no avail.
We continue to try to raise money and provide
Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber
with legal representation, communications, and
other kinds of support. Please help us!
Contribute to the Vodou Aid trust fund for the
legal defense of the two American clergy.
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian proverb
The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
The Roots Without End Society - http://www.rootswithoutend.org/index.php
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
> A young lady who first came to Haiti to teach savages about democracy!
"Savages"? I guess I have more respect
for majority-class Haitians than you do.
> Though her real ambitions were to make money and get laid!
Well... everywhere I go, I hope to make money.
I also hope, occasionally, to "get laid". I have a
boyfriend in Haiti, he's cute, why not? Here's
his pic:
http://www.rootswithoutend.org/medsen_fey/loulou04.gif
Makes ya mad, doesn't it?
> As a professional
> liar, she, first, pretended to be a full pledged Manbo and a secret
> society queen at the same time!
Well, I'm not the only Mambo who has been
present at Sanpwel meetings! The Sanpwel
is a "by invitation" group, and notables
from the community are usually members.
> Later, she had to be initiated again
> by a reputable hougan in Jacmel. He thought that
> she was not qualified
> to be ordained as a Manbo. She threatened him to complain to police
> and have him arrested. That is how she got her second initiation..
I am amazed to learn that I am so big and
mighty that I could force a Haitian Houngan,
in his own peristyle, to give me the asson
if he didn't want to!
At this time I am the International Delegate of
the Vodouisant organization AHOMASE. I am
happy to say that I enjoy the friendship of the
Houngans and Mambos of Jacmel.
> Her latest activities are very sad. Two people are in jail and their
> spiritual mother abandons them to the rotten reality of Haitian
> overcrowded jails
So why aren't you, a Haitian, working on IMPROVING
THE PRISONS? That's YOUR country, honey.
Haitians in American prisons live much better.
Furthermore, why do you assume that I have
"abandoned" Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo
Lisa Gruber? Most of my time these days is
taken up with efforts to defend them.
> She
> writes an unbelievable story stating that this unfortunate couple
> ... was arrested for carrying some skulls that she
> defines as "sacred objects", the ancestors of a Jacmel's hougan...
Yes, and...? That is what happened. A Haitian
Houngan gave them, in a ceremonial context, two
skulls. That's all. His name is Houngan
Luckner St. Louis and he lives in Jacmel.
> As Kathy
> Grey is trying to raise another big
> amount of money of (sic) the back of two
> stranded individuals
You think the lawyer will work for free? OF COURSE
WE ARE RAISING MONEY.
> we, in Haiti, would like to help those poor
> folks
So send them some money! Bring them
some food!
> yet we cannot rely on Kathy's story
Your problem. I was there, I know what happened.
> and we have no idea who
> those people are.
Which people, the two American clergy
now detained? She is an educator, he is
an author, and they own a bookstore.
> We know that Kathy has always been into drugs...
Really? What "drugs"? And suppose I was
high as a kite on heroin, what would that have
to do with an American Houngan and Mambo
deciding to accept skulls from a Haitian
Houngan? You love to gossip and you love
to create lurid slander. Shame on you! How
is that kind of crap helping the two Americans?
> what
> about her initiates?
What difference would it make if they were
LSD addicts? They are detained for the
possession of Vodou ceremonial objects to
which they have every right, as clergy!
> Why Kathy has not immediately contacted the
> American Embassy? That would be the normal
> thing to do.
That was my first call! When the two Americans
were arrested they called my boyfriend, Loulou
Prince, and he came running with his cell phone,
and that was when and where I found out. So
of course I called the American Embassy,
repeatedly.
And tell me please, what makes you assume
that we aren't helping, that we aren't calling, that
we aren't sending money? I think you should learn
to get your facts straight before you talk - in fact
you've had this problem of talking about things you
don't know, for years now!
> We feel very sorry for the couple who could be in jail for years
Why should they be "in jail for years"? There
is no criminal intent! If you care so much about them
and you are in Haiti, call the appropriate Ministries!
Organize a demonstration in support of religious
freedom! All the Haitian government is succeeding
in doing is giving Vodou another black eye, turning
two clergypeople into criminals and our sacred objects
into contraband.
> very ashamed of someone who calls herself "Manbo"
I call myself a M-a-m-b-o, and I am entitled to do
so because I was chosen for the clergy, in Haiti,
by Haitians, and was given the asson by Papa Loko.
> who just doesn't
> care.
YOU don't care about Houngan Louvel Delon and
Mambo Lisa Gruber, you only care about badmouthing
me.
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian proverb
The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
The Roots Without End Society - http://www.rootswithoutend.org/index.php
sou...@msn.com
but may dance the mambo dance...
My last statement will be that those poor initiates will have learned
a hard lesson. One chooses her or his spiritual father or mother and
they should have inquired on the credentials of "Mambo Kathy". it's
all on the internet, particularly in this group.
My spiritual brother is Max Beauvoir who she accused of being a
"makout" (by Racine)... anything... meanwhile he is so reputable that
he was invited for breakfast at the table of Ban Ki Moon, the United
Nations General Secretary, who just succeeded Kofi Annan. With him was
his spokeswoman: Michèle Montas, widow of the famous journalist Jean
Dominique.
Just look at the 6th picture,,, www.alterpresse.org/spip.php?article6294,
Max B. is right there in his grey african suit and white hair.
Where is Racine? enjoying "a week of warm surf
and warm sand and fresh lobster and rum and
Coke and snapper and banan peze,"...
Claiming that she ordained manbo and hougan the two unfortunate
individuals and other times saying the following: "I gave them a
KANZO, a Vodou initiation,"
A lot of bullshit.
soutini
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
> Poor soul, this "MaMbo Kathy" who cannot even spell the name of Manbo!
> but may dance the mambo dance...
Honey, listen. If you want to spell "Mambo" your way,
fine! I am not emotional about it.
> My last statement will be that those poor initiates will have learned
> a hard lesson. One chooses her or his spiritual father or mother and
> they should have inquired on the credentials of "Mambo Kathy". it's
> all on the internet, particularly in this group.
And what "credentials" do I lack? After my twenty
years in Haiti, in various professional capacities,
and my seventeen of those years as a Mambo, I
think you could have a little respect. You don't have
to agree with me, but you could try to at least
respect your own self enough to be polite.
How is what you are doing helping Mambo Lisa
Gruber and Houngan Louvel Delon? Are you
contributing to their legal defense?
> My spiritual brother is Max Beauvoir who she accused of being a
> "makout" (by Racine)...
Well, SURE he was! Lots of people were. My first
initiatory Houngan, Luc Gedeon, was Mayor of Grand
Goave, so I am guessing he got along with everyone,
right?
> he was invited for breakfast at the table of Ban Ki Moon, the United
> Nations General Secretary, who just succeeded Kofi Annan. With him was
> his spokeswoman: Michèle Montas, widow of the famous journalist Jean
> Dominique.
I am very happy for him. The more good publicity
Vodou gets, the better for all of us. The more
bad publicity you and your ilk heap on our
religion, the worse for all of us.
> Where is Racine? enjoying "a week of warm surf
> and warm sand and fresh lobster and rum and
> Coke and snapper and banan peze,"...
Deosn't it just piss you off? I mean, there you
are, all miserable, and I was all set to have a nice
week on the beach with my significant other.
Having to give up that time to help my initiates
was a sacrifice, it's true.
> Claiming that she ordained manbo and hougan the two unfortunate
> individuals and other times saying the following: "I gave them a
> KANZO, a Vodou initiation,"
That's correct, a kanzo, or Vodou initiation, is
the ceremony by which clergy, that is Houngans
and Mambos sur point, and Houngans and
Mambos asogwe, are ordained; as well as hounsis.
You are aware that "ordination" refers to the creation
of priests and priestesses, right?
> A lot of bullshit.
>
> soutini
So eloquent. How are your comments helping
Mambo Lisa Gruber and Houngan Louvel Delon?
It astonishes me with what readiness the Haitian
courts, in a Vodouisant majority country, give Vodou
a black eye! Criminalizing our clergy and making
contraband of our sacred artifacts is not the
way to go.
Houngan Luckner St. Louis, who instructed
Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber
in ancestral service, is a Haitian Houngan asogwe!
His father is a bokor! His aunt is a maman
hounyo. The entire family is solidly Vodouisant,
like MOST Haitian families.
There is no criminal intent on the part of any
of the Vodou clergy involved! Houngan Luckner
didn't kill anyone, didn't desecrate any graves,
didn't steal and sell kidneys. Houngan Louvel
and Mambo Lisa didn't buy body parts, weren't
trying to smuggle their sacred skulls, didn't
attempt to hide them - far from it, they said, "YES,
those are ours, and we are a Houngan and
Mambo, behold our sacred necklaces still
on us!"
If those two Americans didn't love Haiti they
wouldn't have come there. They are not in
prison for doing anything evil, on the contrary,
if they didn't so much love Vodou, if Houngan
Louvel wasn't so proud of his Haitian ancestry,
they wouldn't be where they are now!
Those two should never be punished for
practicing a religion older than Christianity,
older than Islam. They should be immediately
released, apologized to, lionized in the
media, conducted to a good hotel, bathed
and scrubbed, fed, and then taken at
their convenience to the airport.
Peace and love,
Mambo Racine
The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
annick....@gmail.com
Pour mon ami Kafou:
J'ai lu récemment dans une revue d'art qu'un "grand artiste", de ceux
qui vendent le plus cher du monde leurs oeuvres ,avait exposé à la
Tate à Londres un crâne humain entièrement recouvert de Diamonds...des
milliers et des milliers....De qui était ce crâne.?..Il paraît que
"l'oeuvre "est déjà vendue pour des millions et des millions de
dollards.Alors tu vois...l'indécence , elle est où?
Annette
Très intéressant. En voici le lien Annick...
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
Right, it was titled... something to do with God,
what was it, oh, I remember, "For The Love of God".
epona
désolé, mon Français est terrible.
the story goes, the artist's mother asked him, "for the love of god,
what are you going to do next?"
~christine
annick....@gmail.com
>
> - Mostrar texto de la cita -
C'est ça Annette , je l'avais vu là.Et il n'était pas à la Tate mais
dans une galerie privée.Rue89 c'est pas mal hein?
nagasiva
difficulties and the trials of skullbearing.
may your luck and religious rights improve.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout <Raci...@aol.com> to some ingrate:
> YOU don't care about Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo
> Lisa Gruber, you only care about badmouthing me.
now you've got their number, Mambo. they're not worth
your precious time. thank you for your service as a
Mambo and ambassador of good will from the heart of
the world, dear one.
Salameko,
nagasiva
racinedebunked
May your day be as free of pain and suffering as possible,,
Nagasiva - my apologies for having much more information than this
pertaining to Kathy S Grey harming individuals
Soutini - I am proud that you have dealings with a venerable man Bon
Houngan Max Beauvoir. He has, in his time accomplished much and is a
genuine philanthropist and representative of Haiti for eg: www.theelders.org
It is Time to see
Kathy sets up VodouAid to gain money for herself only.
Ugly Truth but hey - shes like that.
No way is she going to be able to have a true philanthropist pull on
anything, because she is not able to
If she was a true philanthropist, she would be able to get 2 people
arrested in Haiti, seen by people that would aid them and try to deal
with the situation in more accord than what they were.
Please Read:
Re: the website asking for funds
I am guessing you saw M- Racine's web-site, she is using my friends
arrest to ask for donations for a fund she has wanted to create BEFORE
my friends were arrested, and it will be used to help whom-ever the
admin (of the fund) decides should get help. Thus if you want to give
money to help Lee & Lisa Gruber, I suggest you give the funds to
Lisa's mother. As I wrote earlier: Lisa's mother and father (George
and Kathey Gruber) and Lee's ex-wife are both sending money to Lisa
and Louvel for food (the prison does not provide enough) and sending
money to a Haitian lawyer. The bills will be about 6 or $7k - maybe
more due to other fees (new flights, passport re-issue fees, etc.) If
you wish to help with a donation please contact Lisa's mother <
kathykgruber(at)gmail[dot]com > who I think now has a paypal account
set up with that same email adress. When you contact her please Cc: me
< sighris @ gmail. com > because Ms. Gruber just had knee surgery and
might not be able to check her email regularly, but I will call her as
I get Cc:ed so she will know. Also, although I can not speak fo rmy
brother and sister (Louvel and Lisa) I know them well enough to know
they will want to thank everyone personally for the help, so I want to
keep track of who has helped (if you do not mind).
If Paypal is not to your taste, you can help the older-tech way:
Money can be sent to the below account established with Washington
Mutual.
> > > > Washington Mutual Medical Center Branch
> > > > 40703 Medical Drive
> > > > San Antonio, TX 78229
> > > >
> > > > Routing Number: 111993776
> > > > Account Number: 3150770614
> > > >
> > > > Make checks payable to: George & Kathy Gruber
Now Kathy, in her past "ventures" with her VodouAid Spin - has never
been able to produce receipts for any of her "past charities"
I have documentation on this and when you really look at her SPIN -
she throws everything back on poor lil Kathy Sue.
The Above Charity is the Correct one
There is a phone number that you can talk directly with her MUM who is
trying to help them both out!!!
Kathy- What you do now will be held
Everything you can't erase
We have it on database
Love and Peace
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
> hi there Mambo Racine, sorry to hear of your
> difficulties and the trials of skullbearing.
> may your luck and religious rights improve.
>
>
> > YOU don't care about Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo
> > Lisa Gruber, you only care about badmouthing me.
>
> now you've got their number, Mambo. they're not worth
> your precious time. thank you for your service as a
> Mambo and ambassador of good will from the heart of
> the world, dear one.
>
> Salameko,
>
> nagasiva
Nagasiva! How are you?
Thank you so much, encouragement helps more than
you know.
:-)
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
"racinedebunked" has an obsessional axe to
grind?
On Sep 2, 1:22 am, racinedebunked <racinedebun...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Kathy sets up VodouAid to gain money for herself only.
> Ugly Truth but hey - shes like that.
> No way is she going to be able to have a true philanthropist pull on
> anything, because she is not able to
> If she was a true philanthropist, she would be able to get 2 people
> arrested in Haiti
This is a perfect example of how lies get
repeated over and over. The fact is, the
lawyer for Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo
Lisa Gruber is Attorney Lamour, the very
same Attorney Lamour I have been paying,
the very same Attorney Lamour that a few
internet flamers have been insisting isn't
even the lawyer for the case.
And as of this writing, he has been able
to get Mambo Lisa released! That's right,
she was released on August 31.
In fact, the very first portion of his fee
that Attorney Lamour received came from ME,
over $400 US that I advanced until the
money from Vodou Aid contributions became
available. THAT was the money that paid
him and an interpreter to go and put
together the two Americans' case. The
two were arrested on July 24 but the lawyer
received NO other money from ANY other source
than me personally or Vodou Aid - until
August 13!
We are continuing to raise money for
the attorney, and for other expenses,
and I plan to keep right on working until
Houngan Louvel is released as well.
racinedebunked
Please everyone check this website and feel free to talk with friends
of Lisa and Lees who know
http://tausirhasirim.livejournal.com/61413.html
It's only a matter of time before Lisa and Lees accounts will surface
I can't wait
By the way Kathy - are you running from Haiti again?
lol
yttrx
Huh, seems to me, kathy, that you and your
attourney had nothing to do with getting Lisa
released actually. Seems to me, kathy, that not
one mothefucking penny that you raised has done
one useful thing for them.
And its seems to me, kathy, that its pretty
interesting that those of us who know quite a lot
about this case, who have known one or both parties
involved (not you, mind you) for a long time, have
been told repeatedly and very strongly to NEVER give
A FUCKING DIME to vodouaid, and that all financial
needs were covered from the very first day by the
american embassy AND by louvel's store in Chicago.
None of us who have the right information about this
case expect you to give up on your lies and deciet,
this much is true. We all know who you are and what
you do, and as unhappy as we are with the whole deal,
there's not a lot that can be done about it at the
moment.
And, don't bother translating for Lou Lou prince
anymore. I'll respond to what you've done so far
here:
"First, why is your mouth so nasty? Calling
my workshop dirty names doesn't take anything
away from me, but it shows who you are.
Who are you to talk badly about me or about
my workshop? What do you know about my
tradition? I learned this at my mother's knee."
Hi Lou Lou. I don't give a flying fuck what you
learned at your mother's knee. I know absolutely
nothing about some random Hatian herbalist fuck
who buys what comes out of Kathy's mouth---except
that by doing so, you mark yourself quite clearly
as a moron.
"Second, Mambo Racine didn't put your "friends"
in prison. Houngan Louvel Delon and Mambo
Lisa Gruber decided to do something they knew
was dangerous. Mambo Racine does Vodou
initiations, she doesn't give out skulls. Houngan
Louvel Delon and Mambo Lisa Gruber got those
skulls from another Houngan, Mambo Racine
didn't tell them to do that. She is still trying
to help them, and so am I, in fact I went to
Port-au-Prince and brought them money and
food that Mambo Racine sent, and the lawyer
she is paying has seen them several times,
which I know because I met him at the prison!
And he comes back to Jacmel on weekends so
I see him then too. "
1. I never said that Kathy (fake mambo) put my
"friends" in prison. I know all of the details
about the entire story, thanks.
2. There's an enormous amount of the story that
you are not telling. Why is that?
3. I really hope this all turns out well. The
news about Lisa (which oddly wasnt sent out by
Kathy (fake mambo) until the DAY AFTER it
happened) is very good, and we are all hoping that
we get equally good news about Louvel.
My next response to this gargantuan monstrosity
(Kathy--fake mambo) will be AFTER it has resolved
itself. Look forward to it, I know I am.
-----yttrx
yttrx
Kathy really stepped in a giant pile of goatshit this time. As much as
it appears unfortunately that Louvel and Lisa had no idea who they were
involving themselves with at the time, it is equally clear that Kathy
has no idea who Louvel and Lisa's friends are, or in the vast numbers
in which we exist.
You're fucked, Kathy. IO PAN PAN, bitch.
-----yttrx
racinedebunked
> In alt.religion.voodoo racinedebunked <racinedebun...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Kathy really stepped in a giant pile of goatshit this time. As much as
> it appears unfortunately that Louvel and Lisa had no idea who they were
> involving themselves with at the time, it is equally clear that Kathy
> has no idea who Louvel and Lisa's friends are, or in the vast numbers
> in which we exist.
>
> You're fucked, Kathy.
>
> -----yttrx
yttrx .....Send my love to Lisa when you speak with her
If she needs to know anything about Kathy, that she was unaware of
before, get my email to her as I have been watching Kathy for years.
I have testimonials from numerous ex-initiates, etc, and some great
saved rants from when she set up "vodouaid" - lol
Would love to send you what I have
You, Lisa, Soutini, Louvel, Nagasiva, Cat and all, are in my thoughts
and prayer
xxx
yttrx
Well, to be as clear as possible, I've never met Lisa, but I know Louvel
and (if you know him too) understandably tend to defend the boy with some
ferocity. But Lisa is with Louvel, and that's more than good enough for
me to feel quite comfortable extending the ferocity to her benefit as well.
I would love for you to send me every damn thing you have. You can forward
it all to yt...@yttrx.net as you see fit....
Thanks,
-----yttrx
racinedebunked
>
> Lisa is with Louvel, and that's more than good enough for
> me to feel quite comfortable extending the ferocity to her benefit as well.
>
> I would love for you to send me every damn thing you have. You can forward
> it all to yt...@yttrx.net as you see fit....
>
> Thanks,
>
> -----yttrx
Again I start this by saying,
my Love to yttrx, Cat, Nagasiva, Lisa, Louvel, Soutini (especially in
this context), bon Houngan Max, Rickydoc, etc.....
people truely seeking a vodouisant path
a path with Bon D!
Stars are!
Kathy you are on the way to causing much grief for yourself now
Pot tets strewn - photos available
99% ex- initiates - writing testimonials
yttrx - I want you to genuinely tell Lisa and Louvel that she is NOT a
Mambo/Manbo ,and what therefore.......happened in "her djevo"..is NOT
what they live their life by, nor her "threats"!
She has caused physical and mental scares to people and I have been
here to listen and love them.
She desecrates - and the amount of hours I have spent, seeing what
she does - is because I love people.
She is a psychotic loose gun - I am the psychotic gun catcher.
Cat (sorry for the type being small) and Nagisiva - I care greatly and
your knowledge blended is a beautiful harmony
Soutini - You are a great girl/woman and one day we will talk and
laugh
What I adore about you Soutini is your ability to understand the
world where we can see and I send you much love
Lwa does and I don't like why sometimes
Lwa does and I'm just there for them wether or not I like it
Sometimes the lwa sends a bystander in and and it's me
Because Kathy is a dangerous child!
It's just LOVE
on a scale unfathomable
Cat (want this to be bigger)- you have a beautiful mind and heart -
that has directed yourself in a fabulous way and you need not year
after year after year, be having to deal with Kathy Grey
Nagasiva - Nor you - Both you and Cat have a great comprehension
Heart, knowledge and your honour
Everyone is getting wise to Kathy's antics
I will part with everything I have over the last .......years
You all are wonderful people
Please trust lwa instinct
because I find it a pain in the but
Love to you all
yttrx
And more than this as well:
I've just talked to a friend who is Hatian, and moved from Haiti
a few years ago to New York City. She still travels back there a
lot, and is deeply embedded in the Vodou culture (insofar as very
specific aspects) both there and in NYC.
I asked her about Kathy, who she is and what sorts of things may
be good to know, and she said that though she had not heard of
her specifically (since she is nowhere near as popular or famous
as she claims), even though she is actually from Jacmel herself.
After I sent her the link to Kathy's little site over there and
described her, my friend laughed uproariously, and it took her a
few minutes to calm down and explain to me why.
Evidently (and I did not know this, since I am a friend to the
Vodou culture, but I am not in it) there are a few slang terms
in Creole for what Kathy is, and none of them are very nice.
I don't really feel comfortable going into them here in detail,
since they are of an intensity that not even I would unleash on
someone via text (such things are much better said to the face
with the mouth), but it is sufficient to say that they are
based on her nationality, her greed, her intelligence, and
perhaps most importantly, the incredible chutzpah it takes for
her to claim Mambo.
That said, there has been more news from Haiti regarding what's
been going on with Louvel and Lisa, but I'll sit back and let
Kathy say what it is, since she claims to have all the
information.
So Kathy, lets hear what you know.
Now.
-----yttrx
yttrx
> Kathy you are on the way to causing much grief for yourself now
>
And it betrays her absolute lack of comprehension of the tradition that
she claims to follow. If she were a Mambo, she would have seen this
sort of thing coming (NOT the imprisonment, but her own downfall)
ten miles away and, being a real Mambo, known what to do to avoid it.
Her sevice is clearly heresy, and in terms of her own claimed
tradition, she is the textbook example of why one should avoid the
black Sevis Lwa.
Of course, I am not implying that she would know anything other than
her own deluded, fictional, watered down, americanized, fake tradition
if she was pissing on it, but you get my drift.
> Pot tets strewn - photos available
> 99% ex- initiates - writing testimonials
>
> yttrx - I want you to genuinely tell Lisa and Louvel that she is NOT a
> Mambo/Manbo ,and what therefore.......happened in "her djevo"..is NOT
> what they live their life by, nor her "threats"!
>
I won't be the only one telling them, in fact I am certain that they've
known it for some time. Though I will repeat it endlessly.
-----yttrx
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
> In alt.religion.voodoo Mambo Racine Sans Bout <Racine...@aol.com> wrote:
In all the disgusting language and sick, repetitive lies these two
troll screen names post, there is only one thing I would even dignify
with a response:
> And, don't bother translating for Lou Lou prince
> anymore. I'll respond to what you've done so far
> here:
>
>> "First, why is your mouth so nasty? Calling
>> my workshop dirty names doesn't take anything
>> away from me, but it shows who you are.
>> Who are you to talk badly about me or about
>> my workshop? What do you know about my
>> tradition? I learned this at my mother's knee."
( http://www.rootswithoutend.org/medsen_fey/index.html ,
by the way)
> Hi Lou Lou. I don't give a flying fuck what you
> learned at your mother's knee. I know absolutely
> nothing about some random Hatian herbalist fuck
> who buys what comes out of Kathy's mouth---except
> that by doing so, you mark yourself quite clearly
> as a moron.
Well. You heard it here - Loulou Prince, a black
Haitian man working in Haiti in a traditional capacity,
is a moron according to yttrx.
So everyone is a moron, or a liar, or rotten in some
other way, and you are a fine, moral judge of good
character, huh, yttrx?
Blech.
Mambo Racine
ritte...@hotmail.com
> On Sep 3, 12:37 pm, yt...@yttrx.net (yttrx) wrote:
> > Hi Lou Lou. I don't give a flying fuck what you
> > learned at your mother's knee. I know absolutely
> > nothing about some random Hatian herbalist fuck
> > who buys what comes out of Kathy's mouth---except
> > that by doing so, you mark yourself quite clearly
> > as a moron.
> On Sep 4, 11:47 pm, Mambo Racine Sans Bout <Racine...@aol.com> wrote:
> Well. You heard it here - Loulou Prince, a black
> Haitian man working in Haiti in a traditional capacity,
> is a moron according to yttrx.
>
> So everyone is a moron, or a liar, or rotten in some
> other way, and you are a fine, moral judge of good
> character, huh, yttrx?
>
> Blech.
>
> Mambo Racine
Another good point Mama.
Anything or anyone that thinks well of you comes under attack from
various screen names. They have to explian that away somehow, and the
list of poeple they have done that to is enormous. Included is Loulou,
the entire Haitian membership, the entire town of Jacmel, the
international membership and I've been called so many different types
of animals and other things one couldn't possibly keep count.
It's a scare tactic. In other words they imply that if you say
anything good about you Mama, then they suffer internet slander
campiagns against them also.
Another tactic is they keep refering to this "info" on you Mama.
Here is a challenge to all the different screen names.
Email all this info to me, Houngan Dayiva Daginen.
I know you have my email address.
You claim to send it via email to other poeple, so where is all of
this "info"?
Why hold it back if it proves you are right?
I am challenging you right here right now, email this to me just like
you do to others.
I bet I don't get a single email.
That's because it's all hype, no substance.
Houngan Dayiva Daginen
yttrx
Slander?
Kathy is an american citizen. If anything I've said is slanderous,
the bitch is cordially invited to fucking sue me.
I'm sure she and her leaky pot tetes would look just lovely in court.
-----yttrx
yttrx
You won't get a single bit of anything from me, I'll tell you that.
Why?
Because who the hell are you, anyhow? Fuck you.
You'll get it when the rest of the world gets it, the very moment
it is all posted, en masse, publically (photos and all) on my blog.
And until then, you can lick my nuts.
ritte...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
You heard it here first folks, yttrx has got NOTHING! It's all hype
and slander just like I said.
This "info" can't stand up to any scrutiny, THAT"S why yttrx won't
send it.