Sxizofrenia!

[gogu]

Otan o Giorgakis proteine dhmopshfisma gia thn paramonh mas h oxi sto eyrw,
oloi mesa kai eksw apo thn Ellada ton ftynane!
Twra, oloi zhtane to...IDIO PRAGMA!
Mhpws telika kapoioi alloi einai oi MALAKES kai oxi o Giorgakis?...
Questions, questions...

[Michael R]

Because Greeks are dumb, they should not be allowed to vote. Democracy
is a bad idea in a country like Greece. Let the Elite take over.

[Lucky Velotres]

Even your definitions are Trojan Horse lies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
You can't understand the truth even if it hits you on the head!

[Alexander Arnakis]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 11:39:31 -0700 (PDT), Michael R
<mrmic...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Because Greeks are dumb, they should not be allowed to vote. Democracy
>is a bad idea in a country like Greece. Let the Elite take over.

That was tried in the days of the Junta. Go to hell, you fascist!

[Alexander Arnakis]

Merkel is not that dumb. The Germans must have known that this silly
proposal would generate a backlash among all Greek political parties.
The obvious question is, what was their deeper purpose? Was it to tar
the pro-Memorandum parties? If so, maybe they really *do* want to
hasten Greece's exit from the euro...

[Michael R]

> That was tried in the days of the Junta. Go to hell, you fascist!

Watch how you talk, Leftist trash. Unarmed Greeks would be spared by
the Nazis during the occupation. But unarmed Greeks were murdered by
Greek Leftist fascist trash like you.

[Alexander Arnakis]

You're crazy. Unarmed Greeks were killed by the thousands by the
Germans during the occupation. Just go to the Polemiko Mouseio and see
the wall map with the 10,000 red dots, each representing a Greek
village wiped put by the Nazis. I'm talking about men, women, and
children massacred. Surely the babies were not "armed."

As for the civil war, both sides did atrocities, the Right worse than
the Left. Anyway, "leftist" and "fascist" are mutually exclusive. Make
up your mind what to call me. Hint: I'm neither.

[ADR]

Let me figure this one out. You are a member of the elite???

[Alexander Arnakis]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 22:31:28 -0700 (PDT), ADR <aret...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Obviously too unsophisticated to be a member of the "elite." More
likely a member of Chrysi Avghi. A street thug.

[ADR]

When GAP proposed the referendum, it was actually Merkel, Sarkozy and all the pro-memorandum politicians that threw a cow. In fact, Merkel and Sarkozy called back GAP for "severe beating". Merkel's proposal is based on the fact that she nows that if the question is posed in this manner, Greeks are going to vote for the Euro thus enabling the memorandum by default.

In every case, Merkel is doing what is to the best interest of Germany. She does not give a dime for Greece. What she is worried about is not Greece, but its consequences of exiting the Euro. Basically, if Greece exits the Euro and defaults fully, then the yields of the Italian and Spanish bonds are going to go through the roof and these economies would need to be rescued or the Euro would need to dissolve.

So, she sweating bullets right now, but she does not need to worry. Greeks are just too cowardly to cut the cord.

[Alexander Arnakis]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 22:41:52 -0700 (PDT), ADR <aret...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Greeks are just too cowardly to cut the cord.

It's not a matter of bravery or cowardice. Greeks will vote their
individual economic self-interest. Those who are better off, and have
(or think they have) a vested interest in the current system, will
vote ND or PASOK. On the other hand, those who are on the edge of
desperation, or are over the edge of desperation, unemployed,
bankrupt, or with drastically cut pensions or salaries (or who think
they will soon be in that situation), will vote for the
anti-Memorandum parties.

The first half of June will make the situation much clearer, both as
the campaign develops, and as the economic "facts on the ground"
develop. We're already seeing a polarization of forces, mainly of ND
versus SYRIZA. It will come down to what percentage of the population
considers itself "desperate" as of June 17th.

[Michael R]

> Obviously too unsophisticated to be a member of the "elite." More
> likely a member of Chrysi Avghi. A street thug.

I don't have to be a member of the Elite to prefer the Elite over
Leftist Fascist Syriza.

Syriza needs to be dismantled. Its supporters are extremists.

[Michael R]

On May 20, 10:22 am, Alexander Arnakis <inva...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
> On Sat, 19 May 2012 22:41:52 -0700 (PDT), ADR <aretz...@yahoo.com>

> wrote:
>
> > Greeks are just too cowardly to cut the cord.
>
> It's not a matter of bravery or cowardice. Greeks will vote their
> individual economic self-interest.  Those who are better off, and have
> (or think they have) a vested interest in the current system, will
> vote ND or PASOK. On the other hand, those who are on the edge of
> desperation, or are over the edge of desperation, unemployed,
> bankrupt, or with drastically cut pensions or salaries (or who think
> they will soon be in that situation), will vote for the
> anti-Memorandum parties.

Which will bring much more desperation, unemployment, bankruptcy, etc.

> The first half of June will make the situation much clearer, both as
> the campaign develops, and as the economic "facts on the ground"
> develop. We're already seeing a polarization of forces, mainly of ND
> versus SYRIZA. It will come down to what percentage of the population
> considers itself "desperate" as of June 17th.

Syriza is an extremist organization that exploits the ignorance and
lack of education of most Greeks in an opportune time. It is dangerous
for Greece, it is dangerous for Europe and it is dangerous for the
world. Syriza must be dismantled.

[Michael R]

> Obviously too unsophisticated to be a member of the "elite." More
> likely a member of Chrysi Avghi. A street thug.

Most uneducated street thugs support Syriza. If you support Syriza you
are an uneducated street thug too. Syriza is an extremist organization
and should be dismantled.

[Alexander Arnakis]

And who are you to do the "dismantling"?

What do you propose to do with the SYRIZA members? Send them to
concentration camps?

"Leftist Fascist" is an oxymoron.

Greece is -- or should be -- a democratic country. Sentiments like
yours have no place in it.

[Alexander Arnakis]

So, you propose to do the "dismantling"? What methods do you propose
to use?

[gogu]

? "Michael R" <mrmic...@gmail.com> ?????? ??? ??????
news:c174cb9d-515b-46b7...@b26g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...

Please, let's stop it here!
It's not good to go down to such painful subjects...
Let's let junta and nazi occupation out of this...

[gogu]

? "Alexander Arnakis" <inv...@invalid.invalid> ?????? ??? ??????
news:a06hr7p1u4kb8t5tq...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 19 May 2012 22:41:52 -0700 (PDT), ADR <aret...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Greeks are just too cowardly to cut the cord.

> It's not a matter of bravery or cowardice. Greeks will vote their
> individual economic self-interest.

And where on earth people vote with different criteria???!!!
Komizeis glafkas eis A8hnas opws elegan kai oi arxaioi emoy progonoi...

[gogu]

? "Alexander Arnakis" <inv...@invalid.invalid> ?????? ??? ??????

news:pgohr718o221u5ipa...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 20 May 2012 00:32:38 -0700 (PDT), Michael R
> <mrmic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Leftist Fascist" is an oxymoron.

No it isn't!
Your existance OTOH is a mistake of the nature;-)
As I always say: red fascists, black fascists, one and the same thing/shit!
So yes, there can be red (=leftist) fascists very well when by "fascism" you
are not refering to an ideology but to a *behavior*!
Got it?
Even if it's dificult for a "khfhna toy dhmosioy" like you to understand
certain things;-)

[arktos-linux2]

an anatr3eis sta gegonota toy perasmenou noemvriou
tha deis oti o monos megalomalakas htan - kai einai -
o giwrgakhs.

o papaxazos den proteine dhmopsifisma gia to euro alla
gia thn daneiakh symbash (mnhmonio+psi) pou molis eixe
symfwnhsei me toys ypoleipous ths eurozone, elpizontas
etsi oti h isxyrh pleiopshfia yper to euro 8a edeine
thn sygkatathesh ths sto mnhmonio foboumenh tyxon e3odo
apo to euro sthn antitheth periptwsh. epishs tha nomimopoiouse
thn kybernhsh toy giwrgakh wste tha parememe kai
pro8ypourgos.

akolou8hse omws h "prosagwgh" giwrgakh+benizelou sthn
gallia opou tous ta mph3ane giati den proeidopoihsan
gia thn prothesh dhmopsifhsmatos kata thn diarkeia ths
diadikasias ths neas symfwnias. epishs htan oi gallogermanoi
poy epemeinan sto oti an ginei dhmopsifhsma tha einai
*gia to euro kai oxi gia thn daneiakh symfwnia*. dystyxws,
gia akoma mia fora oi eurwpaioi einai consistent kai emeis
teleiws malakes.

and last: with the 50% prospect of a syriza govrnmnt,
it is irrational to keep your savings in greece. the
message has sunk in and bank panic is already here.
1 billion per day gets withdrawn from the banks since
one sysriza member said that in govrnmt they will seize
deposits greater that 20K (earlier stratoulis had set
the limit to 200k). o glezos said that he does
not care about the euro but for the poor and anyone
earning more than 20k/year should be forced to make
a loan to poorer folk. o swzwn eauton...
--

[ADR]

On Sunday, May 20, 2012 12:22:37 AM UTC-7, Alexander Arnakis wrote:
> On Sat, 19 May 2012 22:41:52 -0700 (PDT), ADR

It really does not matter at all. The memorandum 2 will start being enforced at the end of June, whatever happens. Even those who regard themselves as "safe" will be affected by the new cuts. But none has the guts to sever the link.

[gogu]

Ο "arktos-linux2" <hreo...@bahalo.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
news:jpcikv$dhn$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> On Sat, 19 May 2012 21:16:05 +0300, gogu wrote:
>
>> Otan o Giorgakis proteine dhmopshfisma gia thn paramonh mas h oxi sto
>> eyrw, oloi mesa kai eksw apo thn Ellada ton ftynane! Twra, oloi zhtane
>> to...IDIO PRAGMA!
>> Mhpws telika kapoioi alloi einai oi MALAKES kai oxi o Giorgakis?...
>> Questions, questions...

> an anatr3eis sta gegonota toy perasmenou noemvriou
> tha deis oti o monos megalomalakas htan - kai einai -
> o giwrgakhs.

I said then:
"right idea but wrong timing".

> o papaxazos den proteine dhmopsifisma gia to euro alla
> gia thn daneiakh symbash (mnhmonio+psi) pou molis eixe
> symfwnhsei me toys ypoleipous ths eurozone,

Which is exactly what it was: daneiakh symbash=stay or not in the euro zone!
Actually many European leaders today say exactly that: you can't have the
euro without the symbash (aka memorandum)!
So essentially it's one and the same thing!

> and last: with the 50% prospect of a syriza govrnmnt,
> it is irrational to keep your savings in greece.

:-)))
Rest assured that 90% of my money are safe in Switzerland and in Italy where
I'm right now;-)
As I said at the end I don't give a flying shit if my fellow Greeks will
vote for SYRIZA or other parties which lead out of the euro!
If they want this, let them have this;-)
I don't give a flying shit;-)

> o glezos said that he does
> not care about the euro but for the poor and anyone
> earning more than 20k/year should be forced to make
> a loan to poorer folk. o swzwn eauton...

He said that such people must be taxed for those money!
Well, typical commie thinking...

[Nashton]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

As gutsy as you that hides in the tall grass and runs away from discussions?

LOL


--
ADR on the current fiscal crisis : "There is no evidence
whatsoever that Greece spent irresponsibly and that it did not manage
its debt."

ADR on the open letter of Greek academics on the economy.
Pissaridis, Nobel Prize laureate is amongst them.

"This letter, signed mostly by persons with appointments and strong
connections to Greek academia has been extensively panned in the
forums of Greek academics wild inaccuracies, obvious distortions and
absolute lack of solutions."

"There is not chance in hell that the government will get
access to a persons' account that has moved the his/her
money quite legally to Switzerland or any other European
bank"

The naive ADR on Swiss accounts.

"Of course, they will be great Greek patriots who will fight on -and
eventually win-. In the meantime, I will stay with some proud people,
the Irish (since I have a great emotional connection with the place
and dear memories) "

ADR taking another emotional tantrum, takin g his marbles and going home.

"Palestinian rockets killed only a few rats in Israel"

Another "lesson" on current events from ADR

"I am always right, I am never wrong and you can't deal with it"

ADR and is God like infallibility

"When there are commentaries in the Wall Street Journal calling for the
replacement of this ridiculous government, you know we have reached
the end of the road"

ADR and the credence he places on ...magazines concerning the rise or
fall of a govt.

"That's impossible. For the news of the fire to travel from Rome to
Actium and for the Nero to sail back to Rome it would take many more
days than the fire lasted. Nero would have arrived just to see
smoking ashes."

For ADR, Actium = Antium
Ti Lozanh, ti Kozanh.

"This totally laughable and it shows
that you are smoking something powerful.
Have you tried to install a
DSL line at home in Greece lately?"

ADR on broadband penetration in Greece.


"These radiation level are just within certain areas of the reactor.
Let's not overblow the whole thing. Provided that the plant is
finally secured and cleaned, this radiation level will decline quite
quickly (depending on the actual elements that provide the
radiation)."

ADR forgetting about the plutonium, offers his in depth
analysis of the nuclear reactor crisis in Japan.

"To think that Anastassios had anything to do with the manufacture of
medicines is a frightening thought.

A man of fathomless ignorance who uses it as knowledge to guide action
and is involved in pharmacy imparts to medication a sense of Russian
roulette that's worse than the fear of disease.

Be afraid.

A man for whom Actium is the same as Antium, inequalities are the same
as negative statements, thinks just as well that chloride is the same
as clorate and sulfide the same as sulfate. There never was a
sophist movement, ancient Greece and Rome had no lawyers, and science
is never concerned with proving negatives. Anything goes, folks.

A mind that dysfunctional in a relaxed history forum with not
deadlines or bosses must be even worse in the spheres of life with
strict obligations.

Bingo! Then one hears that such a man failed to meet his performance
goals at his work and got a bonus of exactly zero dollars last year.
And that shortly afterward his employer reconsidered Mr. Retzios'
business contribution in his 24 months of employment and felt he was
being robbed, and rightfully fired the goober's a.s.

How many times must that have happened to Anastassios,... and
counting?"

Someone pegging the fool ADR for who he really is.

[Alexander Arnakis]

On Mon, 21 May 2012 11:20:27 +0300, "gogu"
<rumin...@usenet.cnntp.org> wrote:

>Ο "arktos-linux2" <hreo...@bahalo.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
>

> > o glezos said that he does
>> not care about the euro but for the poor and anyone
>> earning more than 20k/year should be forced to make
>> a loan to poorer folk. o swzwn eauton...
>
>He said that such people must be taxed for those money!
>Well, typical commie thinking...

1. These are half-baked ideas put forth by various individuals within
SYRIZA. They're not official SYRIZA party positions. Tsipras in fact
is trying to impose some "message discipline."

2. What's wrong with "progressive taxation," that is, with the idea
that those able to pay more, should be asked to pay more? This after
all is social justice and is the basis of practically every Western
taxation system.

3. Let's cut Glezos some slack on this. He is a national icon.

[SteN]

On 21.5.2012 г. 14:24 ч., Alexander Arnakis wrote:
> What's wrong with "progressive taxation," that is, with the idea
> that those able to pay more, should be asked to pay more? This after
> all is social justice and is the basis of practically every Western
> taxation system.

Sure. Let us take this further and apply the principle in all spheres of
life.
Let us impose a law that links the fine imposed for transgressing the
law with the wealth of the person found guilty. So, a poor person who
crosses red light should pay $1, and Bill Gates should pay $ 1 000 000
for the same offence.

[choro]

And why not, you ninny?! A $1 fine might hurt someone who hasn't got a
penny to his name than a $1M fine imposed on Bill Gates.

Of course to the likes of you $100 spent to save someone's life and $100
spent on a whore are equal in value. Merely entries in the ledger's
expenses column!
-- choro

[SteN]

LOL. The fishing proved more successful than hoped.
You are funny. Actually, it is *you* who is blinded by money itself.
Once you decide that the penalty for crime depends on the offender you
open the gates to inequality in treatment of offenders.

[annokato]

What if a married couple has 7 kids and another married couple can't
have any. Then in you twisted logic the government can take a kid from
the first couple and give it to the second.

[gogu]

Ο "Alexander Arnakis" <inv...@invalid.invalid> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
news:j59kr79ahvrf51j7n...@4ax.com...

???
There is nothing wrong with progressive taxation, Greeks are actually taxed
with this system since...1945!
Didn't you know that?!
What Glezos said was something else: he asked for a...special tax
on...welathy people (just becauyse they are wealthy!!!), over the tax they
pay!
And guess what: he considered "wealthy" any Greek with more than...20.000
euros in the bank!!!
This is hilarious and a major stupidity!
I understand to put a special taxation (***Once***! The Greek state has done
it again and again so this special one-time taxation is becoming a permanent
taxation on companies... And then they are wondering why foreign companies
are not coming to invest in Greece! Stupid people!) on people with a big
income but a taxation on...deposits?!
Deposits that may be the idrwtas o an entire life?
Of people with decent income who had worked an entire life and managed to
put aside 20.000 euros?!
Stupid, stupid, stupid!
Unfaur, unfair, unfair!
Anti-communist, anti-communist, anti-communist!
LOL

> 3. Let's cut Glezos some slack on this. He is a national icon.

I agree.
I have the greatest of respect for the person (just like for Theodorakis)
but I have the least of respect for some of their actions/ideas/opinions.
Being a national hero does not mean that you are in the apyroblhto of
critisism!
Let's not forget that many national heroes (Venizelos come in mind) have
done some huge mistakes!
(One of them he did in what regards us Pontians: he was against the return
of the Pontians of Russia in Greece after the failed campaign against the
bolsheviks; he tried to persuade them to remain there... And then they
suffered under the red nazis...).

[gogu]

Ο "SteN" <bg123...@abv.bg> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
news:jpdg5e$ee3$1...@dont-email.me...

He's a TROLL so stop feeding "it"!

[ADR]

Alex, of course there is nothing wrong with progressive taxation. The system applies in virtually all progressive societies. However, we should understand that only a small part of overall taxation is progressive (income tax). A lot of taxation (excise taxes, sales taxes, VAT, tariffs, tolls, etc) are not at all progressive.

And you are right to point out that progressive taxation dates from classical antiquity. Democratic ancient Athens levied "wealth taxes" on individuals of certain worth and, believe it or not, the process was actually applied again during Roman imperial times (and this was one of the reasons that the Senate, composed by rich men, always disliked the office of the Emperor).

Thus, progressive taxation has been with us for a long time because of its basic fairness.

[choro]

You are comparing apples with oranges!

People do adopt children in real lie though. And some parents DO give
them up for adoption. The reasons are manyfold.
-- choro

[choro]

Ah, "ta lefta, ta lefta!" So dear to gogulo's heart! Scared shitless
that he might have to pay the due tax on his "lefta". So he spirits his
"ta lefta" out to tax havens!
-- choro

[annokato]

> -- choro- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So what you are saying is that there is no need to take
something from someone that has it and give it to someone who doesn't.
There are other options.