Greek vs Judeo-Christian
sigge
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/dec/09/museums-greece
Title
Laid bare: the sex life of the ancient Greeks in all its physical
glory
Subtitle: An Athens exhibition looks unflinchingly at classical
persceptions of love and lust.
In the same page beside the article there is "More On This Story" ,a
very telling gallery of 10 pictures.
Click on it or here is the link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/gallery/2009/dec/10/sex-eros-exhibition-athens
At the bottom of the page there is by sheer coincidence a link to
"The sacred comes to life: Spanish art at the National Gallery"
Here is the link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/gallery/2009/jun/09/spanish-art-national-gallery-exhibition
The two galleries make it absolutely clear that the two cultures,
Greek and Judeo-Christian, are extremely antithetical.
Any mentioning of the word Christian beside the word Greek becomes
obviously absurd!
I think that Donald Kagan (a Hellenized Lithuanian jew of Khazar
origin)
put it very succinctly in words.
http://www.hnn.us/roundup/entries/12255.html
"Most civilizations have coped with the problem of death by
diminishing it or denying it. Either they say, well, yes, we die, but
it's not important because we're not important. The other is to deny
mortality, and to say, no, we can be immortal in certain
circumstances.
The Greeks really had no sense of immortality. At the same time, they
maintained a sense of the importance of human beings and the great
beauty of life. In other words, they faced the fact that death would
come, and it was terrible, but the fact that death would come did not
mean that what we did while we were alive was unimportant. That
attracted me enormously."
Note GREAT BEAUTY OF LIFE,
to be compared with the
Judeochristian psychotic adoration of DEATH and a non-existing life
after death.
SteN
> From today's news.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/dec/09/museums-greece
> Title
> Laid bare: the sex life of the ancient Greeks in all its physical
> glory
> Subtitle: An Athens exhibition looks unflinchingly at classical
> persceptions of love and lust.
>
"I delight in the prime of a boy at 12," one scribe declares in a text
highlighted on a wall. "One of 13 is much more desirable. He who is 14
is a still sweeter flower of the lovers. And one who is just beginning
his 15th year is yet more delightful. The 16th year is that of the gods.
And as for the 17th, it is not for me but for Zeus to seek it."
Really, what was then Socrates charged with?
Khazar origin?
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
A lot better than yours.
Egypt, Greece, Rome, Freeman Oxford 1996 ISBN0-19-872194-3
p184 young boy's initiation.. sexual element of the relationship appears
to have been restrained, and may not have involved any actual
penetration.. substitute for women by older men who had not yet reached the
age of marriage.. family would be vigilant to ensure he was not being
abused.. For a Greek male to accept the submissive role in a homosexual
relationship, or to be paid for this role, was considered so degrading that,
in Athens at least, it resulted in the loss of citizen rights
J. B.
pain, as this may cause a sudden, unsafe drop in blood pressure.
Discuss your general health status with your doctor to ensure that you
are healthy enough to engage in sexual activity. If you experience
chest pain, nausea, or any other discomforts during sex, seek
immediate medical help.
As with any ED tablet, in the rare event of an erection lasting more
than 4 hours, seek immediate medical help to avoid long-term injury.
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
nitric Oxide is the primordial mammalian neurotransmitter. Even cancer
cells use NO as a transmitter. With that, the idea that gastric cancer
was caused by nitrates evaporated. Then they went to an idea for which
a 1930s Greek doctor got pilloried, Helicobacter Pylori as the cause
of ulcers and stomach cancer. Now, we even have the Pawelek Fusion
theory that metastasis involves the piracy of macrophages.
- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
In <hful81$5fr$6...@reader1.panix.com> by vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com on Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:39:45 +0000 (UTC) we perused:
*+-The Nobel associated with VIagra is really about the discovery that
*+-nitric Oxide is the primordial mammalian neurotransmitter. Even cancer
*+-cells use NO as a transmitter. With that, the idea that gastric cancer
*+-was caused by nitrates evaporated. Then they went to an idea for which
*+-a 1930s Greek doctor got pilloried, Helicobacter Pylori as the cause
*+-of ulcers and stomach cancer. Now, we even have the Pawelek Fusion
*+-theory that metastasis involves the piracy of macrophages.
sigge
> sigge wrote:
> > From today's news.
>
> >http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/dec/09/museums-greece
> > Title
> > Laid bare: the sex life of the ancient Greeks in all its physical
> > glory
> > Subtitle: An Athens exhibition looks unflinchingly at classical
> > persceptions of love and lust.
>
> "I delight in the prime of a boy at 12," one scribe declares in a text
> highlighted on a wall. "One of 13 is much more desirable. He who is 14
> is a still sweeter flower of the lovers. And one who is just beginning
> his 15th year is yet more delightful. The 16th year is that of the gods.
> And as for the 17th, it is not for me but for Zeus to seek it."
What is the point?!
The title says "Greek vs Judeo-Christian"
My comment on the two galleries and the explanation given by Donald
Kagan was
QUOTE
GREAT BEAUTY OF LIFE,
to be compared with the
Judeochristian psychotic adoration of DEATH and a non-existing life
after death.
UNQUOTE
It cannot be formulated more directly.
Even if you were comprehension impaired you would understand.
But you do not or you pretend Not to.
And you come not with a comment but pointing out a passage of the
article that you obviously do not understand!
Well, the existence of sex-drive is a very basic in human life. A
source of pleasure and sometimes a source of pain.
In all societies there are homosexuals, pederasts, and other
perverts.
What is striking in Greece, is that homosexual relations between
adults were not punishable in Greece.
This does not implied that they were approved. On the contrary!
A citizen should make children. And if kinaidos he could be stripped
his citizen rights.
The contrast with Orientals and Christian Westerners could not be
greater,
When did MODERN western societies achieve this tolerance?!
Concerning pederasty:
Jews and Christians, some homosexual scholars and all pederastic
scholars, have mostly misrepresented (I wonder Why) the Greek
attitudes.
Many have claimed that it was permitted for an adult to fuck anyone
from 9 to 90. Wrong!
It is the usual propaganda!
But now scholars examine the literature and the art without prejudices
and already the faults of the Judeo-Christ-Homosex-Pederasts wishful
thinking is under question.
Read James Davidson. "The Greeks and Greek Love".
It has happened before with Sappho.
A married School mistress with a daughter of her own, composing songs
for the marriage of her pupils.
She was turned, without any reason whatsoever, to a homosexual woman.
The Great poetess from Lesbos became a homosexual according to Judeo-
Christ--....
Aristophanes uses the verb Lesbianizein (to act as a Lesbian) to mean
"to perform felattio".
Imagine this biting intellect to miss the chance to attack the
Greatest!
Read Lardinois!
There is also something strange with the passage that you copied.
Obviously written by a pederast (freedom of expression was a basic
right generally in Greek but in particular in Athenian Society).
But he goes up in the ages! Observe that it is usually the other way
round. The pederasts start with boys/girls in the late teens and lower
the age in time.
You have to ask your pal mitsos for an explanation.
I cannot explain it except possibly that the pederast moved towards
the ages 18-19 where it was permissible to have homosexual relation
with a youth.
>
>
> > In the same page beside the article there is "More On This Story" ,a
> > very telling gallery of 10 pictures.
> > Click on it or here is the link
> >http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/gallery/2009/dec/10/sex-eros-e...
>
> > At the bottom of the page there is by sheer coincidence a link to
> > "The sacred comes to life: Spanish art at the National Gallery"
> > Here is the link
> >http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/gallery/2009/jun/09/spanish-ar...
>
> > The two galleries make it absolutely clear that the two cultures,
> > Greek and Judeo-Christian, are extremely antithetical.
> > Any mentioning of the word Christian beside the word Greek becomes
> > obviously absurd!
>
> > I think that Donald Kagan (a Hellenized Lithuanian jew of Khazar
> > origin)
> > put it very succinctly in words.
>
> >http://www.hnn.us/roundup/entries/12255.html
>
> > "Most civilizations have coped with the problem of death by
> > diminishing it or denying it. Either they say, well, yes, we die, but
> > it's not important because we're not important. The other is to deny
> > mortality, and to say, no, we can be immortal in certain
> > circumstances.
>
> > The Greeks really had no sense of immortality. At the same time, they
> > maintained a sense of the importance of human beings and the great
> > beauty of life. In other words, they faced the fact that death would
> > come, and it was terrible, but the fact that death would come did not
> > mean that what we did while we were alive was unimportant. That
> > attracted me enormously."
> Really, what was then Socrates charged with?
> Khazar origin?
What do you think that Socrates was charged with?
Since this is the second time you take up Socrates I will start a new
thread about Socrates.
In the meantime, you should pull yourself together and explain to us
Antideists/Atheists what is so good about
these agonizing faces of Christ-saints- Madonna, Flagellation,
Torture, getting pregnant without having sex (does anyone believe
that?).
Is there any value in believing, contrary to all evidence, in a Life
after death?
How come the beautiful body of Aphrodite was replaced by a fully
clothed madonna who doesn't fuck?
How come the beautiful athletes were replaced by the emaciated faces
of saints?
How come Botticelli painted the birth of Venus in a most Catholic
Italy
during a period when the Catholic Church were thinking out the most
horrific tortures?
What is so good with a priest that is being tortured by vows of
celibacy and his natural sex-drive turns him against the small
defenseless repeatedly?
Sigge
SteN
> On Dec 10, 4:06 pm, SteN <bg123456...@abv.bg> wrote:
>> sigge wrote:
>>> From today's news.
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/dec/09/museums-greece
>>> Title
>>> Laid bare: the sex life of the ancient Greeks in all its physical
>>> glory
>>> Subtitle: An Athens exhibition looks unflinchingly at classical
>>> persceptions of love and lust.
>> "I delight in the prime of a boy at 12," one scribe declares in a text
>> highlighted on a wall. "One of 13 is much more desirable. He who is 14
>> is a still sweeter flower of the lovers. And one who is just beginning
>> his 15th year is yet more delightful. The 16th year is that of the gods.
>> And as for the 17th, it is not for me but for Zeus to seek it."
> steN! It seems you have difficulties in getting the point!
>
I have no difficulties in getting to the point. The text is taken from
the same article you posted. It seems, however, that you have problems
with the point it makes. Same happened the other day when you wrote an
apology of slavery in ancient Greece.
My point is best expressed by Cicero, himself well versed in Greek culture.
"O tempora, o mores" - that is societies produce framework of moral and
social values that operate in precise time and space, that is under
different historical circumstances. Idealization of ancient Greek
society as if it can be a model for modern society some 25 centuries
after its demise is ridiculous. And you have no right to blame
Christianity for that demise.
The "Judeo-Christian" came to society long after ancient Athens was
reduced to a merely provincial city of the Roman empire. Moreover,
Athens had ceased to be the centre of Greek culture even before the
Romans arrived. Alexandria, Antioch, Pergamum - these were the new
centres of Greek culture and this culture flourished under the aegis of
enlightened and not so-enlightened despots but not in democratic
societies. So, when estimating the Judeo-Christian tradition you need to
reckon in what society in came, under what conditions and in what
society it became triumphant and to what it has led European society.
Furthermore, it is ridiculous to put together the "Judeo-Christian" and
the "ancient Greek" and compare 17th c. Spanish religious art with 5th
c. BC Greek lay art.
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
By denying the Byzantine part of history, by "modernising" the
language, by falling for the non-Orthodox fascination with pagan
Greece, they are effectively allowing their enemies to deny they are
even Greeks! No, Byzanium was the glorious continuation of ancient
Athens. Athens founded Byzantium as a port to access Scythian
(Russian) wheat. (Sparta depended on Sicilian wheat.) When Alexander
the Great's father wanted to strangle Athens, he took
Byzantium. Byzantine governance continued Athenian democracy so far
that the Russians copied it in their Assemblies of the Land
(demolished by Petrine modernisation and almost revived against Anna
of Curland) and even the Turks felt obligated to continue it as the
Divan. Not to mention church conciliarity.
Stinking Samaras should rename ND to be Byzantine Party!
3 Byz Mil Treatises CFHB XXV Dennis IX 1985 Dumbarton Anon 6cent
p13 Deliberative assemblies serve a good purpose. What has been thought
through by a number of people is more likely to be carrie dout
successfully. They are particularly needed in time of war, which is declared
by the consensus of many minds but can be conducted effectively only by
selected leaders
gogu
news:hg4j2s$275$1...@reader1.panix.com...
> You see, what the Greek left is inadvertantly doing?
>
> By denying the Byzantine part of history, by "modernising" the
> language, by falling for the non-Orthodox fascination with pagan
> Greece, they are effectively allowing their enemies to deny they are
> even Greeks!
Apo tin poli erxomai kai stin korfi kanela;-)
In your line of (i)logic, modern English today should speak...medieval
English!
BTW, you Americans have heavily..."modernized" (LOL) English language which
has nothing to do today with Shakespearian English!
Amazing stupidity!
> No, Byzanium was the glorious continuation of ancient
> Athens.
Byzantium had nothing to do with Athens!
With ancient Greece as a whole.maybe, with Athens particularly.most probably
not!
> Athens founded Byzantium as a port to access Scythian
> (Russian) wheat.
Byzantium was founded by Greek colonists from Megara in 667 BC and named
after their king Byzas or Byzantas, you IGNORANT fanatic, *NOT* by Athens!
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more:
http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/golanule/
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
SteN
Byzantine governance continued Athenian democracy so far
> that the Russians copied it in their Assemblies of the Land
> (demolished by Petrine modernisation and almost revived against Anna
> of Curland) and even the Turks felt obligated to continue it as the
> Divan. Not to mention church conciliarity.
>
wow.
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
*+-In your line of (i)logic, modern English today should speak...medieval
*+-English!
1. Educated Americans understand KJV and SHakespeare in Elizabethan,
the equivalent to CLassical Greek.
2. Greeks refer to Classical as Archaic, which is not the same as
what westerners call Ancient.
3. As a Greek American I have no interest in reading news
mistranslated from English, but rather to read Aristotle and the
Bible.
My archived elaborations:
Firstly, understand that when Greeks change their language too
much, they open themselves to the Metternichian criticism that they
are no longer Greeks. Israel revived a two-thousand year-dead
language as its official language. This is not to say that the
politically-imposed Katharevusa or Demotic are natural languages, the
way Kathemilumeni is. Also, since no translation is ever perfect,
when you change a language, you deprive your progeny of the culture
that accompanied it. The fewer people that actively speak a
near-biblical Greek today, not just in a religious context, then the
more dead, one-dimensional and useless the results of our attempts to
rely on the results of reading ancient texts.
Secondly, cantankerous Greeks resist dealing with Ecclesiastic
Greek the way stuck-up Brits would not resist Ecclesiastic English,
even though the two are roughly equidistant from the languages
respectively spoken today. The reason this is so is the appearance of
a body of literature tends to freeze changes in a language, so
Classical Greek and Elizabethan English are roughly at equivalent
levels of the dvelopment of each language. Also, there is an important
dischronistic mistake made by a sloppiness in distinguishing between
the generic term "archaic" and the specific "Ancient Greek" where
changes that took place in preHomeric Greek end up being applied
almost a millenium later by people whose level of education suggests
they should know better. Particularly farcical are the "Erasmian"
errors of W Sydney allen who admits he discarded Hindu evidence
contradicting his conclusions on ypsilon - perhaps because he views
Greek too much as a sister of latin and not at all in its eastern
context (there was also ample Hebrew evidence he did nt look at). I
say this as someone who was required to read original German-like
Beowulf and French-like Chaucer in prep school, and as someone who
once heard a Constantinople Jewish mathematician say how glad he was
to speak to my parents because he doesn't get to speak real Greek
since USA immigrants badly speak it.
The following analogy, I feel, roughly applies: LinearB:Homer:
Classical:Koine:Kathemilumeni::Beowulf:Chaucer:Shakespeare:KJV:Modern.
- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
<P ALIGN="CENTER"> <IMG SRC="http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vjbiz.jpg"></P>
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
The human dichotomy is that idealists accomplish and learn more through
delayed gratification, learned from religious asceticism, but wreck social
structures through the same incestant tinkering that makes them achieve.
Othodox Christians, Jews and Presbyterians are the most accomplished
Americans, but they also seem to always be on the left. It was said during
the Dukakis campaign that Greeks are conservative, but their politicians are
always liberal. To read Denis Felix' bio of (Presbyterian) Condi RIce and her
parents' self-sacrificing early-dying devotion to the education of their
daughter is most instructive. THis type of extreme parenting is consistently
characteristic of overachievers. WHen I interviewed students who applied to
COlumbia, the ones who got in seemed to be mind melded with their parents.
In a social sence, these quiet kids are much more conservative that the
street thugs who later grow up to be conservatives. I complained that the
collapse of conservatism in 2008 was because the conservatives stopped acting
like conservatives in their personal behavior. A Greek professor recently
insisted to me that Aristotle was the "first Catholic", yet the dichotomy of
philosophy is totalitarian idealist Plato-Conficius-Hegel vs practical
individualistic Aristotle-Laotsu-Burke. (I prefer James Madison to Edmund
Burke in this.) When RUssia supressed the Hegelians in 1848, they fled to the
USA, and as both Protestants and Jews, feuled first the abolition of slavery,
then the rapid increase of socialism, but they also were the drivers behind
the American Industrial Revolution. How much more dichotomous than that can
you get?
Message-ID: <hefg69$3n8$1...@reader1.panix.com>
Ok, a few more minutes. The point isn't doing His will, it is His will
happening and our accepting it. It is that our will isn't what is
being done or what needs to be done. Your view is problematic because
it focuses on YOU deciding. That is the entire problem with western
theology from the eastern view. When my dad died, my cousin the priest
who buried him, kept saying "GOD has his reasons." Our understanding
of this is much closer to the Jews and the Muslims than the West (eg
ins'Allah, which is a phrase repeated by Greek Jews as well).
Massie, Land of Firebird, Touchstone, 1980 ISBN 0-671-46059-5
p175 Russians, continued Kohl [Johann G Kohl, Colburn, London,
1842], could be called "Mohammedans of Christianity" because the
phrases "I can't tell, God knows" and "if it pleases God" that
prefaced and ended their sentences
Message-ID: <hehffu$sl4$1...@reader1.panix.com>
The conservatives today are like Jonah in the belly of Obama, not yet
broken to the will of GOD to understand why they failed. Yet Torrey saw the
greatness of Dwight Moody in his being "surrendered". THe only way I can
personally reconcile the evnagelicals who say "born again" is if this "born
again" is "surrendered." Almost no one in this group, myself the worst, is
really as communitarian as Orthodox should be, because of the western virus
of individualism.
Bell, D L Moody Collection, Moody Press, 1997, 0-8024-1715-9
p101 [Torrey] The first thing that accounts for God's using D L Moody so
mightily was that he was a fully surrendered man
Podhoretz, Prophets, Free Press, 2002 ISBN 0-7432-1927-9
p357 bowing down to the work of their own hands, what they were
worshiping was themselves; and in worshiping themselves, in trusting
in themselves as though they were gods, they not only failed to
acquire superhuman status, but htey lost even such powers as were
granted to human beings, becoming as dead to the world as the idols
they constructed.. idolatry amounted to self-deification, the
delusion.. [Brown, Mgg Confl, 1983, p54 combining issues increases conflict]
In the Ten Commandments, the primary violation of the law
is idolatry.. cult of self.. delusion that we humans are capable of
creating a perfect world - a delusion out of which in the past century
alone mountains of corpses have been amassed
Faith for a Lifetime, Abp Iakovos ISBN 0-385-19595-8
p18 submission, humility, & dependence.. road to perfection
p40 focusing too much on what _I_ wanted, rather than what God
p135 allow God to conform us gradually, over many years of spiritual
growth, to the image of his Son
p145 Human beings.. need to interact with one another and with God in order
to experience great changes in their lives
pp169+ [political] Avoid Headlines.. Forget liberal-conservative
distinctions.. Be suspicious of trendy issues.. Take time to think.. In most
cases, focus on immediate issues, [Brown, Mgg Confl, 1983, p54 combining
issues increases conflict; Podhoretz, Prophets,2002,p357] rather than those
that are far away.. Follow you own Christian conscience.. To illuminate your
conscience, look to the Bible
Eastern Orthodox Church, Benz 1957/2009 Aldine Transaction Rowohlt
p51 Redemprion, therefore, is not primarily the restitution of a legal
relationship that has been upset by sin. Rather, it is fulfillment,
renewal, transfiguration, perfection, deification of man''s
being.. idea of love rather than of justice dominates Eastern
religiosity.. Awareness of the overflowing fullness of divine love
drives away all thought of any schemes of reckoning and satisfaction
Message-ID: <hei0jc$58c$1...@reader1.panix.com>
I feel too many of today's "Christians" are blind to the hazard of ego.
In my youth, Iakovos and Billy Graham and Jerry Falwell weren't. I remember
in my jr hi years listening to Billy Graham (whose Asheville Easter lamb and
ice tea were catered by my dad's baby brother and who sent a few respondants
to his local crusade to my GOA parish) talk about the dangers of EGO and
confidence on tv. Many times Falwell walked away from various endeavors to
return to his parish. During the 1990s, a man who I very much consider my
mentor in business would whisper in my ear "Stay away from that guy!" and a
few months later that person would be in the news for misdeeds. Finally, I
freaked out and asked how he knew "Easy! Ego!" He explained that these
individuals felt their activity was so important, no law should stand in
their way. (In some cases, the individuals were involved in medicines to save
members of their own families and felt emboldened by their successes - in one
case, saving the lives of two uncles.) This was the situation ethics of the
Kennedy Era that, in the opinion of Bork-mentor Bickel, culminated in
Watergate. But you also have to understand how people get committed to
corruption by increments until it no longer matters.
Bickel, Morality_of_Consent,Yale,1975
p122 [Watergate] leaf from the Warren Court's book, but the presidency
could undertake to act anti-institutionally in this fashion with
more justification because, unlike the Court, it could claim not
only a constituency but the largest one
Baer See No Evil (Syriana) 3Rivers 2002
p59 Soon recruiting agents became as natural as ordering a pizza on the
telephone. It's all a matter of listening to what people are really
saying. Money problems, an awful boss, secret desires or allegiances can all
be windows into small compromises that grow into larger and larger ones. It
took me a while, but when I finally learned to read the dark forest of other
people's minds and then walk them into espionage smal step by small
step. TOward the end of my career, I never had a pitch rejected
Salancik Commitment is too easy Org Dyn 1977 (6) 62-80
p64 Three characteristics bind an individual to his acts and hence commit
him. They are the visibility, the irrevocability, and the volitionality of
the behavior
p77 only places them in the position of having to justify a position that
is being attacked.. allow a person to become committed to his objections in
the first place
p80 commitment is a strikingly powerful and subtle form of coopting
Message-ID: <hf6rbh$ca$1...@reader1.panix.com>
Orthodox countries traditionally allowed allodox separate enclaves.
This was certainly ahead of its time as it took the Flushing
Remonstrance on behalf of Quakers against Peter Stuyvesant to bring
forth the idea of neighborly pluralism. Before that the standard was
separate (should I chillingly add "but equal"?) communities. Likewise
in Northern Greece, under the Turks, you often had separate Greek,
Slavic, Vlah, Arvanit villages. (much like the Germans of Russia and
Romania.) But fools like Galina only noticed the people who spoke
their language, even if they were in the extreme minority.
Where is Fr Joel? He was Charanis' student.
Charanis [Rutgers], Stud Demogr Byz Emp, London, 1972
pIX-75-7 reply given by John, bishop of Citron, toward the end of
the twelfth century to Constantine Cabasilas, archbishop of
Durazzo.. 'People of alien tongues and alien beliefs,' wrote John,
'such as Jews, Armenians, Ismaelites, Hagarites, and others such as
these were permitted from old to dwell in Christian countries and
cities except that they had to live separately and not together with
the Christians [cf Massie Firebird p255]
tax
Message-ID: <hf6sa3$aet$1...@reader1.panix.com>
That's a really tough one. THere is no really Orthodox modern state
that you could go to find the answer of how this would have
evolved. The Orthodox Church was a branch of the government in
Orthodox empires like the Byzantine or Tsarist. Now, the Byzantine
Senate could veto imperial decrees or impeach emperors. ANd in a way,
so could the Church. But you need to look at the Iranian government,
where the Mullahs play much the same role as the Church did in
Byzantium and Tsardom. Israel certainly has the same debate and many
Jewish friends who oppose a Greek state religion have no problem with
an Israeli state religion. I have no doubt that in the early USA the
various religious leaders had some sort of censure authority that
today no longer exists. So in some ways, the current Iranian regime
(at times, when Rafsanjani's people had more say) in many ways
resembles the early USA. WHen Khomeni first got in to power, Jerry
Falwell praised him since they were both called "fundamentalist." (In
terms of the Iranians, this is a misnomer, because they are not really
as "minimalist" as fundamentalism implies. (THe Pharisees were real
fundamentalists and the Sadduccees were real traditionalists.)
Here is a book written over a hundred years ago when the west was
much more Christian and much more friendly to Orthodoy. It first
appeared as essays in the Scottish Review, at the time Edinburgh was
the Athens of the North and a Great Ally of the Greeks. The Magna
Carta of 1215 could not have been created unless Baldwin's Crusaders
had to comply with Byzantine governance during their occupation in
1204, where from they plagiarised the Magna Carta.
7Essays on Christian Greece, Demetrios Bikelas, Garnder, Paisley, 1890
[repr Scottish_Review]
p14 This Legitimist sentiment, so marked by the New Rome, was
certainly not derived from the Old.. in England the scrupulous
retention of certain old-world official customs.. ridiculous in the
eyes of foreigners, is accompanied by the most perfect excercise of liberty
p34 Asiatic.. intense passion of religious hatred.. Latin Christianity
seemed about to emigrate bodily into Asia for the purpose of rescuing the
Holy Sepulchre.. hereditary nomad instinct.. barbarian hordes which had
convulsed and colonized Europe some five or six centuries previously
p39 [Luke Notaras] "Better a Turk's turban that a Cardinal's hat"..
1016, a Norman army poured into Italy and seized the provinces still
ruled by the Eastern Empire.. captured Corfu and harried the
mainland.. Meanwhile the same race conquered England
p61 some few of the Emperors married Athenian women, they were
themselves by origin all either Thracians, or Armenians, or Isaurians,
or Cappadocians; there was not a single Athenian or Spartan among
them, or one spring from any other purely Hellenic stock
p63 [quotes Finlay] "The authority exercised by the Senate, the powers
possessed by the Synods and General Councils of the Church, and the
importance often attached by the Emperors to the ratification of their laws
by silentia and popular assemblies, mark a change in the Byzantine Empire, in
strong contrast with the earlier military Empire of the Romans.. power..
transferred from the army to the laws.. humanity.. visible in the mild
treatment of many unsuccessful usurpers and dethroned Emperors.. [coronation
oath, Kodinos, de Officiis cap xvii] to abide and perpetually be found a
faithful and sincere servant and son of Holy Church, and moreover her
defender and avenger.. abstain from bloodshed.. [.].. many of the worst
Emperors were deposed by popular indignation
p65 [M A Rambaud "Le Monde Byzantine et l'Hippodrome" Rvu Deux
Mondes, 15AUG1871 - at the Hippodrome] Byzantine people made and
unmade Emperors; there that justice was administered and the guilty
punished, and that triumphs were celebrated over barbarians and
rebels; there that the masses grazed upon wonders of art and of nature
p72-3 [Montrevil says] The Greeks are by their very nature
philosophical or speculative. The search for abstract truth is to them
more attractive than the pursuit of reforms or the regulation of manners.
They are a race eminently literary. They have always been thinkers rather
than statesmen. They seized accordingly upon that side of Theology which most
appealed to their natural genius. The heresies which arose among them were
begotten by the same spirit.. proclivity towards idealism
p74 It was the Byzantine Empire also which resisted the very first
political pretensions of the Popes
p77 Iconoclastic persecution.. mainly responsible for the
separation of Central Italy from the other domains of the Empire
Message-ID: <hf72r8$oda$1...@reader1.panix.com>
If we are honest, no one in this newsgroup would willingly and confortably
(not for long) in a Genuinely Orthododx COuntry any more than you would
reside in Calvinist Geneva. (See CHurchill below).
It is worth noting, however, how Greeks viewed religion in the aftermath of
WW2 and the repelled communist takeover that took even more lives
afterwards. It is worth noting that, between 1920 and 1950, a quarter of all
Greeks were slaughtered. 350k by the Turks, 550k by the nazis (50k were
Jewish) and 650k by the reds.
Cavarnos ModGrkThough 1986 1969 0-914744-11-9
pp50-1 In 1950 there was published in Athens, in English, a book entitled
Towards_a Christian_Civilization. Though written by Alexander Tsirintanis
(1903-), Professor of Jurisprudence at the University of Athens, it expresses
not only his own avowed beliefs but also those of more that twelve hundred
Greek professional men, including two hundred scientists.. "Coming to grips
with the evil at its roots will mean in substance an opposition to the
negation of Christian values. It was on that negation that the edifice of the
civilization, whose ruins we are witnessing today, was built"
Never Give in, Churchill speaches 2003 Hyperion
p84 14jun21 Saud's followers belong to the Wahabi sect, a form of
Mohammedanism which bears, roughly speaking, the same relation to orthodox
Islam as the most militant form of Calvinism would have borne to ROme in the
fiercest times of religious wars. The Wahabis profess a life of exceeding
austerity, and what they practise themselves the rigorously enforce on
others. They hold it as an article of duty, as wall as faith, to kill all who
do not share their opinions
Message-ID: <hfad97$mrb$1...@reader1.panix.com>
Classical Greeks had developed the Antikythera navigational computer, the
Heronas steam engine, and Greek fire (naphtha and quicklime), but they used
this to show off (this how the Russians thought Byzantium was heavenly - the
emperor was elevated by engines), to impress opponents, not to better the
life of anyone. It took the patent and investment system of England to turn
these into the industrial revolution. Greeks to this day cannot work together
because their egos are too fragile. Instead of boasting these inventions of
old, the Greeks should be embarassed they never put them to use!
Message-ID: <hfk4oi$i2a$1...@reader1.panix.com>
We recently had a discussion in a GOP circle where a half-Greek lawyer and
former Democrat candidate proclaimed that Greeks were conservatives
personally but voted Democrat because they didn't pay taxes. I also was
scandalised when in Greece they were shocked the USA would jail tax cheaters,
because in their schizoparanoid model, it was almost an ancient obligation to
cheat on taxes. I think the Greeks here in the USA feel their only political
obligation is to the "tribe" to vote for who would best look out for supposed
"Greek National Interests." (Which is why many consider me a traitor for
helping close down a criminal Greek entity two decades ago. They treat the
Greek former sherrif this way for impounding cars of Greeks.) In Greece,
people largely vote the way their family votes, because they feel one party
or the other helped their family at one point. If you look at studies of the
1989 election in Greece you will find this explanation why so many continued
to vote for the disgraced Papandreou. (My embarassment over this ended with
Clinton 1996.) But there you have your two fornicators: CLinton and
Papandreou. Don't forget Gerhard Schroeder, who Clinton advanced against
Kohl.
Well, the Orthodox church has rules keeping women who had abortions from
communion for ten years (but the same rules keep a soldier killing in self
defense in battle for two years and a repentent murderer for twenty). But
they did appreciate to some extent the"Give unto Caesar" separation. YOu also
have the post I put up under toleration about the Swiss where i mention how
Orthodox countries kept people of other faiths in enclaves. The church (as
kind of a Confucian Censorate or US SUpreme COurt) had a big influence. The
church could demand a monarch resign but if they did, I have no reading.
And there is the famous debate St Vladmir (the Apostle of RUssia) had with
his bishops on the death penalty, where they told him he had a holy
obligation to his people that exceded his personal obligation against
killing. Orthodox have traditionally avoided the death penalty. Basil the
Bulgar Slayer didn't actually slay the Bulgars, but blinded them (leaving
every hundredth with one eye to guide the others home). The Tzar's biggest
failing is he didn't execute the bolshies, but exiled them, and these lived
in exile at his expense. Solzenitsin's Mortal Danger mentions how reluctant
the tsars were about execution.
Message-ID: <hfuvqa$e0k$1...@reader1.panix.com>
On prosletysing, I feel it is odd that places like Columbia University
required religious groups on campus to engage in "non-prosletysing dialogue"
(Obama worked for Earl Hall, where religious groups were domiciled.) but they
were upset when Russia banned prosletysing. Now, I don't believe
prosletysing should be banned, but in the immediate (say, the first ten
years) post-communist period, I believe it was not "playing fair" to go in
and prosletyse. Albeit, that is exactly what the Orthodox archbishop of
Albania is doing to their moslems. Having said that, the Greek church
actually benefited from the Jehovah Witnesses because it forced them to wake
up. But the waking up produced some extremisms I would rather do without.
Message-ID: <hfvee5$4ca$1...@reader1.panix.com>
Byzantine and Tsarist governements engaged in some very religiously
idealistic activities which brought about their downfall.
These would seem socialist even in modern Europe.
Orthodoxy, and most Asian religions, really follows a Platonic
Confucian model which seems to inevitably lead to totalitarianism
because of its excessive idealism. THe West follows an Aristotelian
Daoist model which is a lot more practical and pluralistic. But all
great faiths started in Asia. THe Paganism of Zeus, THor and Ram
started in Harappa not too far from where Osama is now hiding. THe
Abrahaimic and Dharmic faiths also started in Asia.
Warren Treadgold, Hist_Byz_State&Society, sup.org 1997
ISBN0-8047-2630-2 LC97-23492 [son of fam Salvicist?]
pp xviii-xix Byzantium shaped and passed on Christian, Roman, and
Greek traditions, including Christian theology, Roman law, and the
Greek classics.. most powerful influence on Russia.. conservative,
religious and not very materialistic.. else has matched it in
maintaining a single state and society for so long, over a wide area
inhabited by heterogeneous peoples
Message-ID: <hgfcln$1vf$1...@reader1.panix.com>
It depends. Hungarian proverb: "It will never be like the good old
times, and. by the way, it never was."
THere were times when Orthodox theocracy, both Byzantine and RUssian,
produced a tolerant, flourishing society and times when it produced a
dark, repressive and self-destructive regime. But the conditions which
produced repression were often externally induced, such as the Turkish
occupation of RUssia and Armenia (see Constantelos, Christian
Hellenism), not internal. The Arabs and even the Turks also had
amazingly tolerant mid-early periods, so it makes me feel this is a
manifestation of a society's growth phase. (See Dov Zakheim in the
National Interest on century old democratic traditions in some Islamic
countries, such as Iran and Lebanon.) THe institutions and
constitutions remained in place, but in times of trouble, they
atrophied into obligatory rubber-stamp rituals, whose outcome was
determined by praetorianism and peer pressure, rather than genuine
deliberation.
I have asked George Stepahnopoulos' dad to sit and describe to me the
Athens of the 1950s which he and my late folks experienced. I just
never had the time or when I went, he wasn't there. For me, that is an
ideal I'd like to see. THe Athens of the time was still largely like a
university town, not yet a smog filled (same mountain structure as LA
or Dublin), not yet overcrowded. But what made it so great? THe
HUMILTY INSPIRED THE THE MASSIVE DESTRUCTION of the previous decade
when a fifth of the population perished in two wars. I may really be a
fool who is blinded by the nostalgia of my late parents, but my ideal
view of both the USA and Greece is the 1950s, before I was born. There
were times in the mid-Reagan years when I thought we migth be back
there, but I don't thinks so any more. Maybe the USA experienced
something similar in the 1870s, humbled by the Civil War. England's
greatest days were also the times after their bloody religious civil
wars, which sparked what we now know as religious freedom.
I think humanity does it to itself. THat is why every faith has rules
against things like "Phariseeism" - at the time of Christ, the Jews
were debating what to make of the new world (See early chapters of
both Kee, Jesus in History and Schmemann, Historiacal Road). Christ
didn't like the Fundamentalist Pharisees or the Traditionalist
Saduccees, bt the Syncretist Samaritans. I think in the end, it is
wrong to put the blame on any relgion, but the politicians who seek to
manipulate religion for their means. Remember the Greek bishop who
preferred to die at the hands of the nazis than turn over his island's
Jews.
I also have another nagging question: Alexandrian Hellenistic Greeks
invented both the steam engine and a mechanical navigational
computer. Their best naval weapon, Greek fire, was petroleum mixed
with quicklime. THey used the technology largely for show. When teh
Russians went in search of religion, they saw magic: the emperor
elevated with a steam engine, mechanical birds chirping, huge musical
organs (Byzantines invented the organbut not for churches). Technology
was used for military and poltical gain, not for the economic
betterment of mankind. THere was no patent or investment
protection. For that, we had to wait for Scotts "Masonic"
(syncretistic) society.
Message-ID: <hgfdh7$kl3$1...@reader1.panix.com>
I think a society that wants to be good, that is guided by religion
has benefit. Godless societies end in totalitarian (unbounded by any
moral rules) tyranny whereas theocracies end in authoritarian tyranny.
The flourishing of Byzantine (and American and Russian) culture
existed when religion was accorded a respectful place in between. THe
same thing happens with both religion and science and economics: when
it gets into the hands of politicians, it gets corrupted. Both Darwin
and Einstein (and even Newton) have had their theories misapplied to
politics with disastrous results. (FOr EInstein, see Paul Johnson's
Modern TImes.) Robert Mundell, the founder of supply side economics,
never said a bad word about Keynes in his 1982 General Equilibrium
class. Bruce BArtlett's New American Economy shows how unpolitical
Keyenes and Mundell were compared to the politicians who claimed to be
their partisans. Ultimately, those who do evil in the name of ANY
religion aren't really believers.
Message-ID: <hgffjv$jfg$1...@reader1.panix.com>
When religion (or science or economics) are corrupted when they depend on
government for sustenance and authority, contrary to, say, the Jesuit
Constitutions of Ignatius Loyola. See ClimateGate. When government seeks
their guidance, I think they are powers for good. The real power of
asceticism is that you break the hold of this world's possessions, that you
become unmoved by passion (The Greek word for meek means inagitable, and I
have had discussions with Jewish scholars that it means the same for
them). St Basil said that he would be happy if he were killed because he
would see GOD, happy if he were exiled because that too is GOD's land, happy
in PRison because he could pray, until the frustrated politican let him free.
Ronald Regan used to say "You can accomplish much, if you don't care who gets
the credit." I have found enormous power in that. I found that if I get
others to believe my odeas are their own, they will act on them. If I try to
get credit, I kill the idea. St Paul lived off tent making, not religion. I
don't believe clergy should get paid for being clergy, because they lose
touch. My uncle-in-law's dad was a priest. He served three towns, three
separate rural parishes, on donkey-back on Sundays. During the week, he
worked the fields. All his kids were born on the fields. His pregnant wife
went to work on the day of labor. If you do not value this world, then you
are unshackled to seek out truth. If you value this world, you build
warehouses on the day your sole is required of you.
gogu
news:hgfnmb$52m$1...@reader1.panix.com...
>
> *+-In your line of (i)logic, modern English today should speak...medieval
> *+-English!
>
> 1. Educated Americans understand KJV and SHakespeare in Elizabethan,
> the equivalent to CLassical Greek.
And of course they do....speak Elizabethan English in everyday life;-)))
LOL LOL LOL
In the same logic "...educated Greeks *NOT* only understand but *ALSO* speak
ancient Greek...", so?!
Your excuses are as lame as...you;-)
Bla...bla...bla!
What about you UNEDUCATED declaration that Byzantium was founded
by...ATHENS!!!!
LOL LOL LOL LOL
How an "ultra-educated" Greek American like you can be so HALF
EDUCATED???!!!
Well, we all know what they say about those who say they are the best, the
smartest, the most educated, etc;-)
You became the clown of scg...
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
*+-> the equivalent to CLassical Greek.
*+-And of course they do....speak Elizabethan English in everyday life;-)))
If you do not know the difference between "understand" and "speak in
everyday life", you are the one deserving of scorn.
SteN
> *+-> 1. Educated Americans understand KJV and SHakespeare in Elizabethan,
> *+-> the equivalent to CLassical Greek.
>
> *+-And of course they do....speak Elizabethan English in everyday life;-)))
>
> If you do not know the difference between "understand" and "speak in
> everyday life", you are the one deserving of scorn.
>
> - = -
over a passage in Herodotus. I relied on my education in Ancient Greek,
he relied on the same presumption you share - that modern Greeks
understand Ancient Greek. At the end of the day, I was accused by others
for capitalizing on Aggie's lack of education and picking up on an easy
target.
"Understanding" a language has various levels and has its tricks. Using
my knowledge of Classical and Byzantine Greek it was relatively easy for
me to study Modern Greek and I comprehend it reasonably well, although I
do not dare using it in my communication. But I had to STUDY Modern Greek.
So, for the second time this year, it pains me to say that gogulo has a
point here. Although a classicist, I am not a specialist in Modern Greek
neither all modern Greeks are classicists. Even ADR who had studied
Ancient Greek sometimes makes significant mistakes because he had not
maintained his skill.
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
I stand by my assertion that, although not perfect, modern Greeks
understand Classical THE WAY Americans understand Elizabethan. I
think you have to understand it is a RELATIONAL, not an absolute,
statement.
Furthermore, there are people in Eastern Maryland who SUPPOSEDLY speak
Elizabethan and Cypriots CLAIM to speak Classical.
- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
gogu
news:hgha91$gdm$1...@reader1.panix.com...
> *+-> 1. Educated Americans understand KJV and SHakespeare in Elizabethan,
> *+-> the equivalent to CLassical Greek.
>
> *+-And of course they do....speak Elizabethan English in everyday
> life;-)))
> If you do not know the difference between "understand" and "speak in
> everyday life", you are the one deserving of scorn.
Read again what I wrote and you *may* understand it bozzo!
Now be a man (well.) and tell us if the affirmation you made was correct:
"Byzantium was founded by...Athens"?;-)))
LOL LOL LOL
You UNEDUCATED baboon!
SteN
> Please be careful how you use "Ancient" (vs Archaic).
>
> I stand by my assertion that, although not perfect, modern Greeks
> understand Classical THE WAY Americans understand Elizabethan. I
> think you have to understand it is a RELATIONAL, not an absolute,
> statement.
>
> Furthermore, there are people in Eastern Maryland who SUPPOSEDLY speak
> Elizabethan and Cypriots CLAIM to speak Classical.
>
I am afraid that by Classical Greek you mean the post Classical Greek
koine. And you need also to consider that this language was also a
Biblical and liturgical language when explaining the linguistic
continuation of the Greek language.
I am pretty sure, modern Greeks will have a great deal of difficulties
understanding 4rth c. BC Aeolian, especially when spoken to them.
As for the Elizabethan English - it is the earliest codified modern
literary English, so the case is quite different. Yet, try to use it to
get directions in Bronx for instance, to see how profound an
understanding you will get.
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
see it from a different angle.
- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
<P ALIGN="CENTER"> <IMG SRC="http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vjbiz.jpg"></P>
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
THis artcle expresses more scientifically what I instinctively knew
about the supposed knowledge of Classical and Ancient Greek in the
so-called West by the majority of the so-called scholars (specifically, several Ivy league religion professors)
The New Old Way of Learning Languages Blum, Ernest American Scholar;
Autumn2008, Vol. 77 Issue 4, p80-88, 9p, 1 bw Hamilton (1769-1831) is
important because he was one of the last major proponents of a pedagogical
tradition, extending from antiquity, that made the study of texts the
dominant focus of the teaching of foreign languages. In this method, teachers
explicated the literal meanings of the words, phrases, and sentences of those
texts. But by the 18th century, such disclosure was under frontal
attack. Teachers had settled on grammar as the main subject matter, and
students were expected to provide the meanings of texts by themselves, aided
by a dictionary. Today there is an almost total absence of interlinear
translations, since the transparency of such texts would preempt students
from their main task of parsing the grammar.. Zipf's law tells us that the
frequency with which distinct vocabulary words occur ill book-length texts
and larger corpora declines in a generally regular, fixed, and simple way, as
the number of vocabulary words in the text increases.. In the Greek New
Testament, only 319 words account for just under 80 percent of the text
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>
> THis artcle expresses more scientifically what I instinctively knew
>about the supposed knowledge of Classical and Ancient Greek in the
>so-called West by the majority of the so-called scholars (specifically, several Ivy league religion professors)
>
>
> The New Old Way of Learning Languages Blum, Ernest American Scholar;
>Autumn2008, Vol. 77 Issue 4, p80-88, 9p, 1 bw Hamilton (1769-1831) is
>important because he was one of the last major proponents of a pedagogical
>tradition, extending from antiquity, that made the study of texts the
>dominant focus of the teaching of foreign languages. In this method, teachers
>explicated the literal meanings of the words, phrases, and sentences of those
>texts. But by the 18th century, such disclosure was under frontal
>attack. Teachers had settled on grammar as the main subject matter, and
>students were expected to provide the meanings of texts by themselves, aided
>by a dictionary. Today there is an almost total absence of interlinear
>translations, since the transparency of such texts would preempt students
>from their main task of parsing the grammar.. Zipf's law tells us that the
>frequency with which distinct vocabulary words occur ill book-length texts
>and larger corpora declines in a generally regular, fixed, and simple way, as
>the number of vocabulary words in the text increases.. In the Greek New
>Testament, only 319 words account for just under 80 percent of the text
And your point is?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://khanya.wordpress.com
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
The instruments of the churl are evil: he deviseth
wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words,
even when the needy speaketh right.
But the liberal deviseth liberal things;
and by liberal things shall he stand (Isaiah 32:7-8).
++
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:52:14 +0000 (UTC), vjp2...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
To accept his point, you would have to accept Zipf's so-called law. I
would postulate that the larger the complexity and the deeper the
philosophical or theological content of a given text, the larger the
vocabulary necessary to explain those concepts. Thus, core
vocabularies would not necessarily correlate over subject areas.
Steve Hayes
>To accept his point, you would have to accept Zipf's so-called law. I
>would postulate that the larger the complexity and the deeper the
>philosophical or theological content of a given text, the larger the
>vocabulary necessary to explain those concepts. Thus, core
>vocabularies would not necessarily correlate over subject areas.
So is he saying that Zipf's law is Greek or Judeo-Christian?
And what does it have to do with Orthodoxy?
Steve Hayes
>To accept his point, you would have to accept Zipf's so-called law. I
>would postulate that the larger the complexity and the deeper the
>philosophical or theological content of a given text, the larger the
>vocabulary necessary to explain those concepts. Thus, core
>vocabularies would not necessarily correlate over subject areas.
So is he saying that Zipf's law is Greek or Judeo-Christian?
And what does it have to do with Orthodoxy?
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
agreed on a language of not more than two thousand words. I have long
argued that pre-1960s Greek USA immigrants had vocabularies of fewer
than two hundred words.
The other poit (you missed) is about the subconscious part of the
language that is not easily conveyed in classwork.
*+-To accept his point, you would have to accept Zipf's so-called law. I
*+-would postulate that the larger the complexity and the deeper the
*+-philosophical or theological content of a given text, the larger the
*+-vocabulary necessary to explain those concepts. Thus, core
*+-vocabularies would not necessarily correlate over subject areas.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>The same is true elsewhere. To eliminate dialects, post-WW2 Japan
>agreed on a language of not more than two thousand words. I have long
>argued that pre-1960s Greek USA immigrants had vocabularies of fewer
>than two hundred words.
How many words does Judeo-Christian have, and who speaks it and where do they
live?