did hitler really start world war II?
bubba griffith
but, germans and soviets decided to attack poland together. so, it was
a dual invasion of poland that sparked off world war II.
yet, no one mentions the soviet invasion of poland. it's as though
germans attacked poland alone. in fact, soviets swallowed up more of
poland than the germans.
also, germans didn't declare war on the world with the attack on
poland. hitler's big plan was against the soviet union. world war II
really began when britain and france declared war on germany, not vice
versa.
hitler war on france and britain was in response to the two nations'
declaration of war against germany.
but, historians would make us believe hitler just declared war on all
his neighbors for the hell of it.
now, i'm not saying hitler was some good guy. and i'm glad brits and
french declared war on germany. they shoulda earlier when germany went
into czechoslovakia. but, it's simply wrong that hitler alone invaded
poland. that was a two-man job along with stalin.
and, britain and france declared war on germany and sparked world war
II. it's very likely that without this declaration of war, german war
would have limited their war entirely to the eastern front and the war
would not have engulfed all the world.
Philip Davidson
They guaranteed Poland, that if Germany attacked
Poland it would be an attack on Britain and France.
So when Germany invaded Poland it was an act of war.
When Britain declared war on Germany Hitler said
"so that's how you make a declaration of war."
It wasn't that they really wanted to protect Poland
they realised that if Hitler built up his power base
he would eventually attack them they had to
attack him before he built up a strong base in the
invaded countries. They never guaranteed
Poland that if Russia, invaded Poland
it would be an attack on Britain and France.
So Adolf Hitler may not have declared war on Britain and France
but he did attack Britain and France, by attacking Poland.
Think of it has a computer game and your opposition
is becoming stronger and upsetting the balance of power
eventually your opposition will have the power to do as they like
obviously you must stop your opponent from getting an
advantage over you. That is how Europe worked.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/430000/audio/_430071_chamberlain_full.ram
_____________________________________________________________
ID signature
Philip Davidson,
10 Ronald Avenue
West Ham
E15 3AH
East London
Phone: ( 020 ) 511 9341
Mobile phone 07906821566
amigo cabal
"Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112584981.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
You are forgetting that neither UK nor US really entered the war earnest
until Russians were surrounding Berilin!
Philip Davidson
amigo cabal wrote:
> You are forgetting that neither (UK) nor US really entered >the war
earnestuntil Russians were surrounding Berilin!
>
The 1000 Bomber raid London
http://www.1940.co.uk/history/sound/raid1.ram
Call Me Ishmael
$EE2....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
> "Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1112584981.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>
>
> You are forgetting that neither UK nor US really entered the war
earnest
> until Russians were surrounding Berilin!
>
>
>
!!!!!!!!!!Granted, the war had been going on for almost 3 tears before
the official U.S. entry, but the Red Army wasn't "surrounding Berlin"
until early in 1945.
I'm sure my uncle Buddy, who died on Omaha Beach, 6/6/44 would take
exception to your statement, as would all the other U.S. soldiers who
died between 6/6/44 and the Battle of Berlin and airmen who died while on
missions over occupied Europe during 1942, 1943 & 1944.
As for the U.K. not entering the war "(in) earnest" the Soviets were
closing in on Berlin, I can't think of a word to accurately describe how
ridiculous a statement this is.
Where did you study history? In the (former) U.S.S.R.?
...or were you in the same class as George W. Bush?
Philip Davidson
L'enfant américain ne devient jamais un homme.
Riain Barton/ריעין ברתון‎
"Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112584981.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
:
:
Philip Davidson
It cost me nothing he wasn't being cocky or nasty
he was writing about what he was thinking.
If he did not understand the answer
then that is not a problem.
I simply do not really understand Americans anyway.
Long ago in a village lived a old wise woman
called grandmother Lynch, some people said she was a hundred
and twelve years old and she looked every bit of it.
She smoked a pipe a little clay pipe and she had
a yellow nicotine stain down the side of her face.
She was a rugged nasty mouth old cow.
In this village lived a family called Stanleys
the Stanleys were farmers and the Stanley father
had died young like all the Stanley men folk
he suddenly died. So his son inherited the
farm along with his mother.
His mother worried about her son because her son
like his father was always exhausted and he always
had mysterious scratches all over his body like all
the Stanley men folk before him. It was well-known
that when the Stanley men folk begin to get scratches
all over their bodies they always suddenly died.
No doctor had ever been able to help the Stanley
men folk.
The Stanley mother decided to ask the evil mouth
nasty old grandmother Lynch, for help she was
desperate for help. She told grandmother
Lynch, about the Stanley history how their men folk
always died young shortly after scratches appeared
on their bodies.
Grandmother Lynch, told the Stanley mother to go
home and act like normal and go to bed at seven o'clock
like all farming families do and I will come to your
farmhouse just before midnight. The Stanley, mother
did as she was told.
Grandmother Lynch, with a lantern turned up at the
farmhouse just before midnight as she said she would.
The farmhouse's had doors that you could open the top half
and leave the bottom half closed.
Grandmother Lynch, stood in the corner of the house
in the shade and waited to see what happened if anything
and at midnight the door opened and in come a banshee!
It went up the stairs of the farmhouse into the sons
bedroom and climbed on to his back just like a horse's
back and rode him just like a horse across the fields
stark naked and jumps the hedges just like a horse!
Just before daylight the banshee rode the son back
into the bedroom of the farmhouse and then leaves
the farmhouse.
Like all farmers they get up as soon has daylight shows through.
The son is feeling exhausted and he has new scratches
all over his body. Grandmother Lynch, tells Stanley
to not worry and she tells Mrs Stanley, everything will be
all right and I will return just before midnight.
Old grandmother Lynch returns to the farmhouse just before
midnight and opens the top half of the door and hides
beneath the bottom half of the door with a flint
in her hands and just as the banshee opens the door
grandmother Lynch, jumps up strikes the flints together
catching the banshee! on fire the banshee screams!
so loud the screams could be heard 17 miles away!
>From that day on all the Stanley men folk
have lived to see old age.
This is a story that was told to my father's father
and his father's father in a forgotten language and
I am telling it to you. ;-)) And it is a secret between
us ok? and whenever you become ill or fear for your
safety you should always say grandmother Lynch!
three times and this will always protect you from evil. ;-))
I am a stag: of seven times,
I am a flood: across a plain,
I am a wind: on a deep lake,
I am a tear: the sun let fall,
I am a hawk: above the cliff,
I am a thorn: beneath nail,
I am wonder: who but I sets the cool headed aflame
with smoke?
I am a spear: that rears for blood
I am a salmon: in a pool,
I am a hure: from paradise,
I am a hill: where poets walk,
I am a boar: ruthless and red,
I am a breaker: threatening doom,
I am a tide: that drags to death
I am an infant: who but I peeps from the unhewn
dolmen arch?
_____________________________
amigo cabal
Call Me Ishmael wrote:
> "amigo cabal" <pinksp...@earthlink.net> wrote in news:Oy24e.2805
> $EE2....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
> >
> > "Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:1112584981.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >>
>
> >
> > You are forgetting that neither UK nor US really entered the war
> earnest
> > until Russians were surrounding Berilin!
> >
> >
> >
>
> !!!!!!!!!!Granted, the war had been going on for almost 3 tears
before
> the official U.S. entry, but the Red Army wasn't "surrounding Berlin"
Actually First Ukrainian front was on its way to Elbe, which is about 80
miles past Berlin, and the only "troops" left for Americans to engage were
65 year old men and very young boys. I do not have to read history, I was
there. Whole Europe was clamoring for the "Second Front", while Brits and
Americans were waiting on the sidelines to see who the winners was going to
be before they entered the fight!
Philip Davidson
Sometimes a man should wipe his mouth
and except his errors. Only a spoilt child
would continue to demand he is right when he is wrong.
Wipe your mouth.
Meet the gang 'cause the boys are here
The boys to entertain you
With music and laughter to help you on your way
To raising the rafters with a hey-hey-hey
With songs and sketches and jokes all anew
With us about you won't feel blue
So meet the gang 'cause the boys are here
The boys to entertain you
We are here to make you feel gay
So give us a cheer with a hey-hey-hey
Just gather around and put down your gun
With us about there's plenty of fun
So meet the gang 'cause the boys are here
The boys to entertain you
B-O
B-O-Y-S
Boys to entertain you!!!
Call Me Ishmael
>
> Call Me Ishmael wrote:
>> "amigo cabal" <pinksp...@earthlink.net> wrote in news:Oy24e.2805
>> $EE2....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>>
>> >
>> > "Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1112584981.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> >>
>>
>> >
>> > You are forgetting that neither UK nor US really entered the war
>> earnest
>> > until Russians were surrounding Berilin!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> !!!!!!!!!!Granted, the war had been going on for almost 3 tears
> before
>> the official U.S. entry, but the Red Army wasn't "surrounding Berlin"
>
>> until early in 1945.
>> I'm sure my uncle Buddy, who died on Omaha Beach, 6/6/44 would take
>> exception to your statement, as would all the other U.S. soldiers who
>
>> died between 6/6/44 and the Battle of Berlin and airmen who died
> while on
>> missions over occupied Europe during 1942, 1943 & 1944.
>> As for the U.K. not entering the war "(in) earnest" the Soviets were
>> closing in on Berlin, I can't think of a word to accurately describe
> how
>> ridiculous a statement this is.
>> Where did you study history? In the (former) U.S.S.R.?
>> ...or were you in the same class as George W. Bush?
>
> L'enfant américain ne devient jamais un homme.
Va te faire foutre!
(ou, si vous préférez)
Va t'faire enculer chez les Grecs!
Damned-Virus-Data Miner providers
did hitler really start world war II?
All 11 messages in topic - view as tree
bubba griffith Apr 3, 7:37 pm hide options
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german, soc.culture.russian,
soc.culture.french, soc.culture.jewish
From: "bubba griffith" <fatsgrob...@hotmail.com> - Find messages by
this author
Date: 3 Apr 2005 19:37:58 -0700
Local: Sun, Apr 3 2005 7:37 pm
Subject: did hitler really start world war II?
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german invasion of poland is marked as the beginning of world war II.
but, germans and soviets decided to attack poland together. so, it was
a dual invasion of poland that sparked off world war II.
yet, no one mentions the soviet invasion of poland. it's as though
germans attacked poland alone. in fact, soviets swallowed up more of
poland than the germans.
also, germans didn't declare war on the world with the attack on
poland. hitler's big plan was against the soviet union. world war II
really began when britain and france declared war on germany, not vice
versa.
kirill
> german invasion of poland is marked as the beginning of world war II.
> but, germans and soviets decided to attack poland together. so, it was
> a dual invasion of poland that sparked off world war II.
> yet, no one mentions the soviet invasion of poland. it's as though
> germans attacked poland alone. in fact, soviets swallowed up more of
> poland than the germans.
Typical revisionist western "history". The part of "Poland" that the
USSR "invaded" was part of Ukraine and Belarus before WWI and was inhabited
for centuries by Ukrainians and Belarussians. Today this part of "Poland"
belongs to Ukraine and Belarus like it should.
Stalin tried to form an alliance with the UK and France against Hitler
but got the middle finger from the British who were too busy dreaming
of Hitler "ridding the world of Bolshevism" to the point where they
were willing to throw him Czechoslovakia as appeasement. Btw, Poland
grabbed a piece of Czechoslovakia at the same time that Germany took
its piece. So land grabs were normal international affairs during the
late 1930s. Stalin bought the USSR about 1.5 years worth of time during
which the USSR could prepare for the full German onslaught. Without this
buffer the Germans would have won on the eastern front and there would
be no second front.
The United Nazi States of Europe.
kilgore trout
Thats not really true. The US was fully deployed in the Pacific, flying the airwar the
whole time.Russia couldnt have made their advances without the losses to the Luftwaffe
caused by Anglo AMerican bombing. I will grant you that our landwar in Europe was
pathetic compared to Kursk, Stalingrad, etc. But Russia didnt win that war by
themselves. Hitler would have kicked their ass.(Too bad he didnt) It would have saved us
from the coldwar, and 50 yrs of Stalinism in Eastern Europe, untold millions of deaths
in the Gulags.
Hitler didnt start that war. The world was ripe for it. It was just part 2 of ww1.
Philip Davidson
some clever some not so clever and some
very stupid people that's life, you have all kinds of
people in life. Modern life is going to be very hard
for stupid people and modern people are going to have
no time for stupid people. The world is becoming
very selfish and spiteful in April I will be
in my 40s I come from a time when people
had time for others so I have some time for you.
Sunday 17th: Russia invades Poland from the East.
Tuesday 19th: Germans suppress Czech rebellion
Germany and Russia agree on partition of Poland.
( October ) Molotov accuses Britain of aggression.
( November )
Sunday 12th negotiations between Russia and
Finland over territorial dispute reach deadlock.
Thursday 30th: Russia invades Finland without declaring
war.
( December )
Tuesday 5th heavy fighting in Karelia, Finland.
Two Polish submarines escape from Baltic Sea to join
Royal Navy. Sunday 31st Finns rout another Russian division.
Monday 8th Finns capture 1000 Russian troops near
Suomassalmi.
( March )
Russia assures Sweden of safety after Finnish surrender.
( August )
Thursday 1st Russian Foreign Minister Molotov
confirms the Russo-German pact and accuses Britain of aggression.
( Nobody could understand that one how can a communist government
and a fascist government support each other. Most common Germans
couldn't understand that one either.
Britain had been at war with Germany, for some time and then suddenly
Hitler went crazy and attacked his communist friends.
( June ) 1941
Sunday 22nd Germany launches operation Barbarossa.
Britain laughs its head off and Churchill calls it the
turning point of the war, offers to give whatever help
we can to Russia.
British Communist Party officially drops peace campaign and
backs the war. Soviet military mission arrives in London Litvinov
broadcasts in English from Moscow saying UK and Russia must
strike Germany together.
Russia is no longer accusing Britain of aggression
what a dramatic reversal.
( JULY )
Thursday 10th Germans urge Japan to enter war.
Britain and Russia sign mutual assistance agreement
in Moscow, pledging no separate peace.
The little Austrian man hides in his bunker
and leaves the German people to suffer.
After the war Britain introduces a programme
called crossing bridges to teach Germany
about democracy.
America spends 60 years making films
about Americans winning the war
to make up for getting its arse kicked by a Third World
country called Vietnam.
Jewish Americans tell everybody only Jewish people suffered
and use this propaganda to make Palestinians suffer.
And Jews in New York, use the Holocaust as a money spinner
and accuses Europeans of being racist for not supporting
the genocide campaign against the Palestinians.
All the rest is history in Europe but
it is still a money spinner in America
every American from little babies to adults
served in the Second World War.
________________________________________________________________
On his way to the river boyne, Philip now headed for the house of
Finnegas of Finn Eces, the druid. The Finnegas had lived in this place
for seven years, hoping to catch sight of the salmon of knowledge.
For it had been prophesied that whoever ate the salmon would be blessed
with boundless wisdom. This same prophecy also stated that the salmon
would be eaten by one called Finn, and Finnegas had supposed that this
referred to him. He had no suspicions therefore, when a lad called
Philip asked to be his pupil. Then, one day, the druid witnessed a
sight that brought him great joy. There by the rivers edge, lay the
fish he had been waiting for. It was much larger than a normal salmon
and, on its shiny skin, all the colours of the rainbow seemed to dance
and swirl. Taking it up, Finnegas carried the salmon back to his house
and told his pupil to cook it.
Philip did as he was told, and soon the smell of cooked salmon wafted
through the house. Finnegas sat at the table, and as the fish was
brought to him he asked the lad if he had tasted it. "No," Philip
replied, but he hesitated... "I have not eaten any part of it," he
continued," but as I was cooking the fish, I burnt my thumb on it, and
sucked it to ease the pain." The druid was perplexed you say your
name is Philip, yet according to the prophecy it must be Finn...
Then Philip told him about his nickname, and Finnegas understood it
all. He bade the lad sit down and eat the salmon. Philip did as he was
told. By this means, he come to possess the power of divination that
was in the salmon of knowledge.
Hang_em_high
when the soviets invaded after 2 weeks. Stalins excuse was that the red
army went into poland to protect the Ukranian and white russian
minority, he declared that the polish state had ceased to exist and he
was warranted in going in. Plus there was no eastern front by the end
of september, other than partisanship that were disorganized although
fairly effective. The people that started world war 2 was the dumb
japs after they attacked the americans. Maybe if the intelligentsia
in poland had ceded to hitlers wish of having rights in the polish
corridor there might not have been 60 million people killed, oh well,
they got what they deserved.
Philip Davidson
You are wearing the badge with pride that is good
as long as you are happy not everybody would be
so happy to wear a badge of an idiot with such honour.
It goes to show you free medical care in Canada
does work. Have fun "Hang_em_high" ;-)
Hang_em_high
kirill
The Poles share no responsibility for starting WWII. Hitler was bent
on wiping out "Jew Bolshevism". It is impressive how Stalin managed to
delay the German attack for so long. But then again Hitler was high
on himself and German superiority. Hitler and his general staff were
in denial after 1942.
pan Piotr Glownia
In 1939, when Hitler invaded Poland Russia did invade Poland too.
In 1941, when Hitler invaded Russia NONE SLAV DID INVADE RUSSIA.
So, Hitler's failure was inevitable. It is a proven historical fact
that Aryan people can't beat Slav people without help of other Slav
people. They are not sparky in their brains enough or got muscle big
enough to equalize their deficiencies in... ehem...
However, when Napoleon won in Russia and conquered the
burned to the ground Moscow with help of Polish people he lost
the Russian winter, because the Slavs helping him weren't fully
independent people. The same it can be said about Ukrainians
in 1941 helping Hitler. Hitler did lost also because of winter.
Slaves are not Slavs, so simple it is always.
We Polish never lost war because of winter. Russian
or Ukrainians never lost any war because of winter either for that
matter. To lose a war because of winter is for us Slavs the most
stupid thing on this planet, that only Westerners are so dumb to do
time after time. Even American general Custer didn't go to war
with Indians without some Indian scouts. However just scouts
are not a force to win wars with. I believe American general
Custer was slain by Indians... How typical.
Piotr Glownia, szlachcic polski koronny
--
Niepodleglosc, Wolnosc, Samowystarczalnosc, Ksenofobia i Szlachta = Jeszcze Polska nie zginela!
Wiem czego chce i wiem, ze to jest mozliwe: Polska sprzed 1795 odrodzona jako Japonia #2!
Jam wrog polityczno-ideologiczny Nacjonalistow, Socjalistow, Liberalow, Antysemitow i Tyrani!
Captain!
"pan Piotr Glownia" <Odrodzona-Polska.usu...@swipnet.se>
wrote in message news:8nE4e.41526$Of5....@nntpserver.swip.net...
> In 1938, when Hitler invaded Czech Poland did invade Czech too.
> In 1939, when Hitler invaded Poland Russia did invade Poland too.
> In 1941, when Hitler invaded Russia NONE SLAV DID INVADE RUSSIA.
>
> So, Hitler's failure was inevitable. It is a proven historical fact
> that Aryan people can't beat Slav people without help of other Slav
> people. They are not sparky in their brains enough or got muscle big
> enough to equalize their deficiencies in... ehem...
>
> However, when Napoleon won in Russia and conquered the
> burned to the ground Moscow with help of Polish people he lost
> the Russian winter, because the Slavs helping him weren't fully
> independent people. The same it can be said about Ukrainians
> in 1941 helping Hitler. Hitler did lost also because of winter.
> Slaves are not Slavs, so simple it is always.
> We Polish never lost war because of winter. Russian
> or Ukrainians never lost any war because of winter either for that
> matter. To lose a war because of winter is for us Slavs the most
> stupid thing on this planet, that only Westerners are so dumb to do
> time after time. Even American general Custer didn't go to war
> with Indians without some Indian scouts. However just scouts
> are not a force to win wars with. I believe American general
> Custer was slain by Indians... How typical.
>
insightful
Hang_em_high
an attack by germany, he was planning on a full invasion of europe,
barbarossa was wholly preemptive.
Piotr you may be right, thats why I wish pidulski would've stayed
alive. No doubt pidulski would've ceded to give germany rights in the
polish corrisdor and further germany, poland and the baltic states
would've allied and crushed the soviet jews 65 years ago.
pan Piotr Glownia
Ceratainly I will agree Stalin did plan spread communism
over entire Europe, but in 1938 it was an old news without any
muscle behind it. Stalin even gave up this until some Rizentrop
show up to talk with Molotov giving some new sparks to Stalins
old dreams.
I think you are falsely stateting that Stalins army was even
prepared to war. Finland 1940? Even in 1940 it wasn't. And this
wasn't even about spreading communism in 1940, as taking back
native Russian 1914 teritory.
Pilsudski stayed alive long enough after succesfull to us
Polish Polish-Soviet war 1919-1921. Enough to ensure that
war wouldn't come any time soon from East to Poland.
I think Pilsudski would suprise you in 1938 by declaring
war on Germany entire year earlier in support of Czechoslovakia.
Do you think the Czech defences in Sudets would be so easily
conquerable by German forces with Polish army invading Koningsberg
and Berlin with help of these splendid Czech tank divisions?
I do not think so. Pilsudski main idea was Slavonic federation.
This was the main corner stone of his entire political agenda.
Helping defend Czech in 1938 would put Poland in very positive
way on Pilsudski's way to achieve that federational goal. Pity
that nationalists and not federationalist took control of Poland
after Pilsudski's death.
Hitler started making demands on Poland after Czech
annexation, so Pilsudski would have no Hitler's or Baltic's
demands to face in 1938. I even think that Hitler wouldn't
even dare to go to reoccupy with German forces West
Germany with Pilsudski still alive even after annexation of
Austria.
Piotr Trela
: Hang_em_high wrote:
: It is impressive how Stalin managed to delay the German attack for so
: long.
You got it completely wrong. It was Hitler who was buying time from
Stalin. Hitler was not ready to take on Poland, Soviets, Britain and
France at the same time in 1939. So in fact it was him who was buying
time and peace on the eastern front from Stalin. With this peace of mind
and the war supplies the Soviets faithfully kept sending all the way till
June 1941- his army in 1941 was much more powerfull than it ever was in
1939.
And how Stalin utilized this time ? He invaded the Baltic states,
Romania and Finland, making sure that at least part of their populations
would support the Germans in their future war with the Soviets,
made a show of ineptitude in his war with Finland, thus encourgaing the
Germans to invade Russia ("if the mighty Red Army can't deal with the tiny
Finland, how could it oppose the Germans"), helped Hitler in his
propaganda (Molotow calling possible war to destroy Hitlerism as
"criminal") and ignored all the warnings about the imminent German
attack, so when the Germans attacked - they caught the Russians
with their pants down.
Some "impressive" achievemenst indeed.
: But then again Hitler was high on himself and German superiority.
: Hitler and his general staff were in denial after 1942.
So evidently are you.
--
Piotr Trela
Hang_em_high
germans of conqured it within a month like they had done, but also they
would have no British and French support, Hence poland would be wiped
out and there would be nothing they could do about it. Sure pidulski
may not have liked having to cede with hitler but thats what im sure he
would've done.
pan Piotr Glownia
In 1938 Hitler would beat Polish army with ease? Oh, really?
Border was much shorter in 1938 and Slask would be like a
German squezed half-island. Polish subs were already patroling
coasts before Prusian terytory ready for blockade. With Czech tank
divisions military support from French and British was not necesary.
It would be enough if they just tranfer Poland some money like they
did in 1921. Hitler was their international problem then. If British
and French didn't want war then, then how could they avoid it if
Poland would act vigiliante in 1938?
Besides Pilsudski had intimate know-how of Prusian-German
army operations and had also combat experience in invading Germans
from before. Pilsudski won against incredible odds with "functionable"
Red Army in 1921. No reason to assume he wouldn't do the same
with not so much technologically supperior 1938 German force having
not only matching in numbers Polish army, but also technologically
equal German army the Czech army besides his? Huh? Any reason
why Czech Tank divisions wouldn't support Polish army operations?
I think maybe Prusia and Slask were good places for operating
German air force, but so Czech did poses biger then Polish air force
and they had from Sudets nice place of operations too.
Besides Hitler wasn't prepared to take on Polish army in 1938.
Pilsudski would catch him off guard and there wouldn't be any peace
treaty before Germany superiority would be damadged unrepairably
by Pilsudski alike the communism spreading over Europe in years
1918-1921. Polish-Nazi war would end under Pilsudski briliant leadership
at least on the same basis like Polish-Soviet war.
Anton N. Mescheryakov
> In soc.culture.polish kirill <kir...@university.ca> wrote:
> : Hang_em_high wrote:
>
> : It is impressive how Stalin managed to delay the German attack for so
> : long.
>
> You got it completely wrong. It was Hitler who was buying time from
> Stalin. Hitler was not ready to take on Poland, Soviets, Britain and
> France at the same time in 1939. So in fact it was him who was buying
> time and peace on the eastern front from Stalin. With this peace of mind
> and the war supplies the Soviets faithfully kept sending all the way till
> June 1941- his army in 1941 was much more powerfull than it ever was in
> 1939.
return of the multi-million credit USSR had taken from Germany. This
credit was used to buy the most advanced German technologies, e.g.
manafacturing equipment suitable for the weapon production. The credit
was paid back in raw materials. And USSR ended up sending complete
waste like iron ore with very low iron compositon.
So who was cheating whom?
> And how Stalin utilized this time ? He invaded the Baltic states,
> Romania and Finland, making sure that at least part of their populations
> would support the Germans in their future war with the Soviets,
Baltic states were needed as a buffer to delay the Nazis before they
strike valuable industrial and heavy populated areas like Leningrad
etc.
> made a show of ineptitude in his war with Finland, thus encourgaing the
> Germans to invade Russia ("if the mighty Red Army can't deal with the tiny
> Finland, how could it oppose the Germans"), helped Hitler in his
> propaganda (Molotow calling possible war to destroy Hitlerism as
> "criminal") and ignored all the warnings about the imminent German
> attack, so when the Germans attacked - they caught the Russians
> with their pants down.
>
Soviet forced were forewarned, deployed and reported readiness at
least 4 days before the actual attack.
So you're speaking obvious (yet widespread) myths.
Anton N. Mescheryakov
near China.
> whole time.Russia couldnt have made their advances without the losses to the Luftwaffe
> caused by Anglo AMerican bombing.
Luftwaffe lose rate at Eastern front was much higher than in so-called
Battle for Britain.
Germany managed to continiously increase the war production despite
all the bombings. Carpet bombing isn't good for anything but civilian
massacre.
I will grant you that our landwar in Europe was
> pathetic compared to Kursk, Stalingrad, etc. But Russia didnt win that war by
> themselves. Hitler would have kicked their ass.(Too bad he didnt) It would have saved us
> from the coldwar
Do you think the Nazi's Europe with far superior technology (nuclear
bombs, jet planes etc.) would make a better enemy? Or USSR really
attacked Western countries?
>, and 50 yrs of Stalinism in Eastern Europe, untold millions of
deaths
> in the Gulags.
Let Russians decide was Stalin good or bad. About a half of Russians
still respect Stalin (yes, I do) despite the half century of
Khruschev's, Brezhnev's, Gorbachev's and Yeltsin's propaganda.
> Hitler didnt start that war. The world was ripe for it. It was just part 2 of ww1.
Good point. WW1 was a trade war between GB and Geramany which GB won.
WW2 was another trade war between GB and Germany which US won.
Philip Davidson
Russian aircrafts were a joke.
The only thing that saved Russia was the size of Russia
Russians did what Russians, always do runaway and wait for
the winter.
Every time the Russians got involved in a direct contact
with the German army Russian losses were always
massive. The only weapon Russia had was cannon fodder
and Stalin, willing to feed his people to the guns.
Russia as always talked a good war
over a bottle of Vodka. Remember Afghanistan,
a so-called modern army being beaten by rag heads
and Russians riding around in Moscow showing off
plastic imitation missiles.
Philip Davidson
loses 1200 aircraft Luftwaffe 10, panzers advance
up to 50 miles and maul 12 Soviet divisions.
Monday 23rd Germans sweep into western Russia.
Tuesday 24th Germans sweep
West into Lithuania and white Russia taking
Vilna and Kaunas "YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME TO KAUNAS" Oops ;-))
http://www.kaunas.lt/english/index.shtml
Sunday 29th Goering
is named Hitler's successor.
Stalin orders retreating Russians
to scorched earth policy.
Germans defeat Russians at Minsk,
300,000 prisoners 2500 tanks,
1,400 guns 250 aircraft captured.
Stalin, is wondering whether his new occupation
Will be a potato farmer the main industry of Russia.
Two bags of chips and don't forget the salt!
Uncle Stalin.
Piotr Trela
: Piotr Trela <ptr...@mun.ca> wrote in message news:<d30u67$efr$2...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
:> In soc.culture.polish kirill <kir...@university.ca> wrote:
:> : Hang_em_high wrote:
:>
:> : It is impressive how Stalin managed to delay the German attack for so
:> : long.
:>
:> You got it completely wrong. It was Hitler who was buying time from
:> Stalin. Hitler was not ready to take on Poland, Soviets, Britain and
:> France at the same time in 1939. So in fact it was him who was buying
:> time and peace on the eastern front from Stalin. With this peace of mind
:> and the war supplies the Soviets faithfully kept sending all the way till
:> June 1941- his army in 1941 was much more powerfull than it ever was in
:> 1939.
: This supplies are very interesting story. They were sent back in
: return of the multi-million credit USSR had taken from Germany. This
: credit was used to buy the most advanced German technologies, e.g.
: manafacturing equipment suitable for the weapon production. The credit
: was paid back in raw materials. And USSR ended up sending complete
: waste like iron ore with very low iron compositon.
: So who was cheating whom?
If they were useless as you want to believe, they why would the Germans
paid for them. And was grain and oli also worthless? It takes two to tango
- so both Hitler and Stalin gained something from it. The only thing
that the Germans gained much more - since the balance between German army
and the Soviet army was much better for the Germans in 1941 then
in 1939.
:> And how Stalin utilized this time ? He invaded the Baltic states,
:> Romania and Finland, making sure that at least part of their populations
:> would support the Germans in their future war with the Soviets,
: Baltic states were needed as a buffer to delay the Nazis before they
: strike valuable industrial and heavy populated areas like Leningrad
: etc.
Post-factum justifications. In 1939 the German army was much much
weaker than in 1941, vulnerable in the West, and there was much bigger
delaying buffer on the way to Leningrad (Poland, and the Baltic states).
So by joining Hitler in 1939 Stalin greatly reduced, not increased, the
buffer zone, and made sure the defeating Hitler would cost tens o
milllions of lives.
Furthermore, all that talk about buffer against Germans hangs on the
belief that Stalin predicted the German invasion. But if he knew that it
is imminent how comes he was completely unprepared, Soviet army caught
in dissarray and Stalin, the head of the state in war, went into shock for
at least days, if not weeks.
So the only reason to stab Poland in the back, to invade the Baltic
States and Romania, to attack Finland, supply Germans with the raw
materials needed for the war and the a piece of mind on the East
to let them conquer the rest of Europe and include its industry into
the German war machine - was that Stalin thought this would lead
the Germans to fight the West, leaving him free to expand the Soviet
empire to the Central Europe.
In other words, it was not some genial long-term strategic insight,
but the regular short-sighted land-grab which after 2 years
blew up into Stalin's face. Too bad that the price was paid not by him,
but by the millions of ordinary Russians and the millions of other
nations who were killed in war or were murderded both by the NKVD
and the Gestapo (which cooperated not only in 1939-41, but also
late in the war).
:> made a show of ineptitude in his war with Finland, thus encourgaing the
:> Germans to invade Russia ("if the mighty Red Army can't deal with the tiny
:> Finland, how could it oppose the Germans"), helped Hitler in his
:> propaganda (Molotow calling possible war to destroy Hitlerism as
:> "criminal") and ignored all the warnings about the imminent German
:> attack, so when the Germans attacked - they caught the Russians
:> with their pants down.
:>
: Soviet forced were forewarned, deployed and reported readiness at
: least 4 days before the actual attack.
: So you're speaking obvious (yet widespread) myths.
"By their fruits you shall know them":
If after many years of intensive preparations for the war with Germany,
with millions of slaves being worked to death in the GULAG, with
all the modern equipment produced using "the most advanced German
technologies", with the extensive "buffer zones", with the Red Army
extremely well trained for the war with the Germans (since Stalin
supposedly planned for it for years) and fully "deployed and ready" for
the German attack, if you believe in all these - how comes that the
mighty Red Army got its ass whipped so bad in 1941?
---
Piotr Trela
Paolo Pizzi
news:40a04f3e.05040...@posting.google.com...
> Soviet forced were forewarned, deployed and reported
> readiness at least 4 days before the actual attack.
Too bad Stalin did not believe those reports, and that's
no myth. Moreover, all his best military officers had been
purged in the previous years and Soviet military leadership
at the start of Barbarossa was appalling. The Germans
attacked with some 3,500 tanks and managed to destroy
or capture a whopping 17,000 Soviet ones in the first year
of the war alone. The largest air force in the world was
basically wiped out in 48 hours. In 1941, the Germans
took over one million Soviet prisoners of war, 650,000
in a single operation (the capture of Kiev.)
BTW, the German did NOT send state-of-the-art
military technology to the Soviet Union. To give you a
couple of examples, the sample battle tank shipped to the
Soviet Union was the PzKfw.III Ausf.A, an obsolescent
model, and the sample fighter plane was the Bf 109E-1,
two generations old (the Luftwaffe had already used the
cannon-armed E-3/4 in the Battle of Britain and delivery
of the successive F model had started since the end of
1940.)
Stalin also got screwed in that a large part of that deal
included the delivery of a heavy cruiser (a sister ship of
the famous Prinz Eugen) to the Soviet Navy, which
never took place. To add insult to injury, two weeks
before Barbarossa, the Germans sent a shipyard report
to Russia promising that there would be no further delays
and that the warship would be delivered on schedule.
To conclude, both Hitler and Stalin were cheating.
Hang_em_high
being invaded by the boljewviks? thats the stupidest thing Ive ever
heard, you can be sure after the poles and germans bled each other for
a while good ol' stalin would be there on the border waiting to attack.
I don't think you understand just how much pidulski hated the soviets.
Besides hitler and pidulski were ol war commrades. Hitler only paid
homage to two people during his reign, one being napoleon and the other
pidulski. Youre really over stating the capability of polish forces,
the only thing in the arsenault that was of any use was there Navy.
Did you know hitlers Luftwaffe decimated nearlly the entire polish air
force with in a half a day. Only a very few made it to the safety of
england. You just don't want to admit that the poles would've created
an alliance with the NSADP against the soviets.
Hang_em_high
help slavs
Hang_em_high
pan Piotr Glownia
Then you are mistaking Pilsudski for nationalist. In fact before
Pilsudski steped down on Slavonic Federalism stop he was very
big person between Polish socialist far far away to the left on the
political stage. However, when he steped down on Slavonic Federalism
stop he wouldn't mind any longer to possess large land property
in I believe his native country Lithuania. You see that Polish was
also native Litvin. Next Polish intricacy I can't expect any non
Slav to understand.
Pilsudski never would risk being invaded by Bolsheviks in 1938,
as there was no Rizentrop-Molotov in place yet. Futhermore British
and French diplomates instead of German were working to "soften"
Stalin at that time.
Besides how Stalin could dare invade with his half-Slavonic
army Czechoslovakia and Poland united under "one step on Slavonic
land by Germanic is a declaration of war against all Slavs" alliance?
Federationalism after all have its advantages. I think he would be very
interested to stay at very peacefull cooexistance. Besides Stalin was
too busy cleaning his army from officers to attack anyone... Polish
intelligence was very accurate in Russia and Germany. You know
why? Very many people of Slavonic descendance believing not in
some foreign Polish nationalism, but in their own Slavonic German
and Slavonic Russian federalism with Polish Slavs. You would be
supprise how many pure Russians and Germans helped Polish
"Federal Sanacja" state. Even "white" Ukrainian Nationalists were
in support of independent Ukraina as well as Ukraina as a part of
Polish Slavonic Federation of Pilsudski. Ukrainian "white" regular
formations fought side by side with Polish army against Bolsheviks.
Stalin would never dare to attack federalistic "Sanatia" Poland on his
own. He needed Hitler badly.
Hitler always respected superiority. Pilsudski federalism
superiority inspired respect not only in Hitler, but also in Stalin.
Do you know that in Bolshevik-intervention war only Polish
Army under Pilsudski was succesfull? Everyone else failed.
How is your knowledge about German army in 1938?
You know in 1938 there were fewer differences between Polish
and German armies? Besides in technical areas Czech army
would be a the very technical compliement to Polish army, which
would definitevely equalize any differences.
I do not think Pilsudski would ever create alliance with nationalists.
Any nationalists. His military regime from 1926 was a try to clean
Poland from his former mistake of colaboration with Polish Dmowski's
nationalists under banners of "patriotism". That Sanatia regime fell in
short military campaign was all fault of Polish nationalists opposed
Pilsudski's regime in Poland this time under banners of "democracy".
It was political enemies of Pilsudski, nationalist Dmowski's party,
which tried very Anti-Semitically hard to annaly enter NDSAP
from behind and form with their noses brown an Polish-German
alliance against Soviet. It was Dmowski's nationalists that were very
unpleasantly awakened by Hitler's terytorial demands on Poland
in 1939 and turn again "patriotic" instead of tundering their "democracy"
as some kind of Hindu holy cow.
I'll die sooner, then believe Polish nationalists to be patriots.
I am like Pilsudski also federalist, so trust my political judgement
about how Pilsudski would act if he was still alive in 1938.
pan Piotr Glownia
>How about the chinamen mongols, they invaded poland and russia with no
>help slavs
As my memory serves me well even Mongols were unable to
swollow Poland and Russia in the same time. ;)
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
> In article <1112905230.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Hang_em_high" <Nuke_...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>How about the chinamen mongols, they invaded poland and russia with no
>>help slavs
>
>
> As my memory serves me well even Mongols were unable to
> swollow Poland and Russia in the same time. ;)
>
> Piotr Glownia, szlachcic polski koronny
Ah, yes.
What is the famous town and battle, at which the brave Poles
all by themselves defeated and turned back the Mongol hordes
thus saving europe?
Philip Davidson
Batu commenced the Mongol invasion of Russia in 1237.
The Mongols quickly gained control of the steppe regions
incorporating the local Turkic people into their army.
There he overran much of Kievan Rus', the Ruthenian
state. He sacked its capital Kiev in 1240, ending its
prosperity. All of Kievan Rus except Novgorod was
captured, and even Novgorod under Alexander Nevsky
acknowledged the Khan's supremacy. Unlike the central
Asian steppe Ruthenia was not incorporated into the Golden
Horde, but was an independent vassal state paying tribute to
the Khan. The Horde regarded Ruthenia as a peripheral area
of little interest as long as it continued to pay tribute.
Batu's Blue Horde continued west, raiding Poland and Hungary.
In 1241, however, the Great Khan Ogedei died, and Batu turned
back from his siege of Vienna to take part in disputing the succession.
In the same year, the Blue Horde split when Batu's younger brother
Shayban left Batu's army to establish his own horde east of the
Ural Mountains along the Ob and Irtish Rivers. The Mongol armies
would never again travel so far west.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Golden-Horde
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
> Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
>
>>pan Piotr Glownia wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <1112905230.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> "Hang_em_high" <Nuke_...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>>>How about the chinamen mongols, they invaded poland and russia
>>>
>>> As my memory serves me well even Mongols were unable to
>>> swollow Poland and Russia in the same time. ;)
>>>
>>>Piotr Glownia, szlachcic polski koronny
>>
>>Ah, yes.
>>What is the famous town and battle, at which the brave Poles
>>all by themselves defeated and turned back the Mongol hordes
>>thus saving europe?
>
>
>
>
> Batu's Blue Horde continued west, raiding Poland and Hungary.
> In 1241, however, the Great Khan Ogedei died, and Batu turned
> back from his siege of Vienna to take part in disputing the succession.
Ah but that is not history as remembered and celebrated
by the Poles. OH NO .. No .. no.
Philip Davidson
CrustyTheClown
george
Call Me Ishmael wrote:
> "amigo cabal" <pinksp...@earthlink.net> wrote in news:Oy24e.2805
> $EE2....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
> >
> > "Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:1112584981.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >>
>
> >
> earnest
> > until Russians were surrounding Berilin!
> >
> >
> >
>
before
> the official U.S. entry, but the Red Army wasn't "surrounding Berlin"
> until early in 1945.
You realise of course that the thing you're replying to is a nazi .
Ariadne
Call Me Ishmael
@fe09.lga:
> I don't know. Let's ask him! He's still alive in Brazil.
>
>
>
A feisty (almost) 116 year-old running naked through the rainforest chasing
the monkeys and birds while yelling at the top of his leathery lungs,
"Respect my authoritah!"
Michael Martin-Smith
loudmouthed Austrain house painter with him. Never trust the man with a
'tache.
"CrustyTheClown" <YourUnc...@oops.org> wrote in message
news:c4F5e.506$Ix6...@fe09.lga...
pan Piotr Glownia
I believe it is called scorched earth. Maybe winter was too cold
again?
Piotr Glownia, szlachcic polski koronny
pan Piotr Glownia
>Philip Davidson wrote:
>> Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
>>
>>>pan Piotr Glownia wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article <1112905230.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> "Hang_em_high" <Nuke_...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>>>How about the chinamen mongols, they invaded poland and russia
>>>>> with no help of slavs
>>>>
>>>> As my memory serves me well even Mongols were unable to
>>>> swollow Poland and Russia in the same time. ;)
>>>>
>>>>Piotr Glownia, szlachcic polski koronny
>>>
>>>Ah, yes.
>>>What is the famous town and battle, at which the brave Poles
>>>all by themselves defeated and turned back the Mongol hordes
>>>thus saving europe?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Batu's Blue Horde continued west, raiding Poland and Hungary.
>> In 1241, however, the Great Khan Ogedei died, and Batu turned
>> back from his siege of Vienna to take part in disputing the succession.
>
>Ah but that is not history as remembered and celebrated
>by the Poles. OH NO .. No .. no.
It is remembered as a wake-up call for unity of Polish state.
Together strong. Single weak. The ideology of unity of Polish state
was a direct result of Mongols' "visit". For 500 years Poland was
united. For 300 of these years Poland was united also with Lithuania.
After 1795 no more unity of Polish state with Lithuanian state.
After 1795 no more unity of Polish state.
After 1795 no more Poland or Polish people.
After 1795 no more even Polish Overclan.
After 1795 we have Mongols' "visit" in Poland non stop.
So we are plundered in poverty and mass unemployment. I think
it is time to say "stop" to these Mongols' hordes plundering Poland
from 1795. However we need at least reborn Polish Overclan to do
so. Otherwise there won't be any force behind that shout. So the first
thing of order is to elect a new Polish king. Doesn't matter we don't
rule Poland, but commoners. Only thing which is important is unity
of our tribes and clans. Unity of Polish Nobility/Claners.
Piotr Glownia, szlachcic polski koronny
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
> In article <k8A5e.33476$vL3....@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, urj...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
>>pan Piotr Glownia wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <1112905230.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>"Hang_em_high" <Nuke_...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>>How about the chinamen mongols, they invaded poland and russia with no
>>>>help slavs
>>>
>>> As my memory serves me well even Mongols were unable to
>>>swollow Poland and Russia in the same time. ;)
>>>
>>>Piotr Glownia, szlachcic polski koronny
>>
>>Ah, yes.
>>What is the famous town and battle, at which the brave Poles
>>all by themselves defeated and turned back the Mongol hordes
>>thus saving europe?
>
> I believe it is called scorched earth.
> Maybe winter was too cold again?
>
What is the Polish name, and where is it on the map?
Somewhere close to Oswiec'em?
Hang_em_high
resource that the enemy may use ie. burning houses and crops, salting
soil. Its not a Town or specific battle. The russkies are famous for
it, first with the the swedes then with napoleon and finally hitler.
Too bad hitler dedn't learn the lessons of his predecessors.
pan Piotr Glownia
And what lesson suppose that to be? "Do not
be greedy for Slavonic land!" ? Yes? Well, Hitler rather
in 1938 put that matter about Slavonic teritory known
as Sudety quite clear. Hitler had to be in some shock
state if he've thought Sudet mountains are part of Tibet
in North India... ROTFL !!!!
pan Piotr Glownia
I think it was cut down in most of Eastern Europe
for farming land by Germanic settlers uncapable living
under such enviromental conditions known as "endless
forest". For first Germanic settlers had to know how to hunt
instead of farming... Mission imposibble for most of Germanic
people. The hunting one have to possess a special instinct.
Although my family once upon the time meet one Germanic
exception, who could hunt. It was about end of XIX century.
My grandgrand mother Anna was from their family. I believe
they were called von Hohenzollerns. Well, certainly Mongols
weren't forest hunters for sure. They never returned. It was
another Asian race in fact, which build Oswiecim death camp.
Piotr Glownia, szlachcic polski koronny
Anton N. Mescheryakov
> "Anton N. Mescheryakov" <tar...@ihed.ras.ru> wrote in message
> news:40a04f3e.05040...@posting.google.com...
>
> > Soviet forced were forewarned, deployed and reported
> > readiness at least 4 days before the actual attack.
>
> Too bad Stalin did not believe those reports, and that's
> no myth.
soc.culture.russian. Western military districts reported operation
readiness at least 3 days before the strike. In fact, some initial
Nazi strikes (e.g. massive air assaults of our fleets at Baltics and
Black Sea) were complete failure (compare to Pearl Harbour). Others
were not.
> Moreover, all his best military officers had been
> purged in the previous years and Soviet military leadership
> at the start of Barbarossa was appalling.
Only ~5% of command staff were "purged", it's comparable to the
natural loss rate due to pension retirement etc. In fact, this
cleansing of the military staff was too late, because treacherous or
simply incompetent generals already did their best to worsen the
Soviet odds.
> The Germans
> attacked with some 3,500 tanks and managed to destroy
> or capture a whopping 17,000 Soviet ones in the first year
> of the war alone.
Do you mean tanks like BT - with so-called "anti-bullet" 13mm armour?
Or T-35, 55ton, 5 turrets, 30mm side armor (50mm front), hardly able
to move? T-28, 3 turrets, 30mm armor? T-26, 16mm armor, PRODUCED
11000? BTW, only commander vehicles were equipped with radios -
imagine controlling the tank platoon using flag signals and flare
launchers.
There's no practical difference were the generals enemy agents or just
dumb. They were punished but it was too late.
Again, you completely missed the point. The main purpose of tanks is
to support attacking infantry. Enemy tanks are up to the anti-tank
artillery - mostly self-proppeled assault guns. Only dispair forsed
Soviet tank commanders use tanks against tanks en masse.
> The largest air force in the world was
> basically wiped out in 48 hours.
At the start of war, USSR western military districts had total 304
modern interceptors, the most under ever-continuing trial. Other 3156
interceptors were of antiqued kinds, e.g. I-15, I-153, I-16.
Luftwaffe used (according to the German sources, see. Balke U. Der
Luftkrieg im Europa, Teil 1, Kublenz, 1989. S.416-418) total 1233
interceptors, including 593 Me-109F, 423 Me109E and 217 Me-110. In
total, 2604 war planes. Plus ~1000 plates were from allies (Finland
etc.), quite outdated. Luftwaffe interceptors were much better than
Soviets, especialy in speed and climbing rate, thx. to advanced German
technology. They had radios and radio navigation, too (while Soviet
pilots used compass as all-in-one-wonder navigation).
> In 1941, the Germans
> took over one million Soviet prisoners of war, 650,000
> in a single operation (the capture of Kiev.)
A few years before they kicked every opposing butt all over the
Europe.
> BTW, the German did NOT send state-of-the-art
> military technology to the Soviet Union. To give you a
> couple of examples, the sample battle tank shipped to the
> Soviet Union was the PzKfw.III Ausf.A, an obsolescent
> model, and the sample fighter plane was the Bf 109E-1,
> two generations old (the Luftwaffe had already used the
> cannon-armed E-3/4 in the Battle of Britain and delivery
> of the successive F model had started since the end of
> 1940.)
>
> Stalin also got screwed in that a large part of that deal
> included the delivery of a heavy cruiser (a sister ship of
> the famous Prinz Eugen) to the Soviet Navy, which
> never took place. To add insult to injury, two weeks
> before Barbarossa, the Germans sent a shipyard report
> to Russia promising that there would be no further delays
> and that the warship would be delivered on schedule.
> To conclude, both Hitler and Stalin were cheating.
And Hitler failed.
Paolo Pizzi
>> Too bad Stalin did not believe those reports, and that's
>> no myth.
> I've already posted the real deployment orders somewhere at
> soc.culture.russian. Western military districts reported operation
> readiness at least 3 days before the strike. In fact, some initial
> Nazi strikes (e.g. massive air assaults of our fleets at Baltics and
> Black Sea) were complete failure (compare to Pearl Harbour).
> Others were not.
Good luck re-writing history...
>> Moreover, all his best military officers had been
>> purged in the previous years and Soviet military leadership
>> at the start of Barbarossa was appalling.
> Only ~5% of command staff were "purged", it's comparable to
> the natural loss rate due to pension retirement etc.
And the source for this claim is? Once again, good luck for your
effort to re-write history.
> In fact, this cleansing of the military staff was too late, because
> treacherous or simply incompetent generals already did their
> best to worsen the Soviet odds.
So, now all the purged generals were incompetent traitors?
Who are you, Stalin's ghost?
>> The Germans
>> attacked with some 3,500 tanks and managed to destroy
>> or capture a whopping 17,000 Soviet ones in the first year
>> of the war alone.
> Do you mean tanks like BT - with so-called "anti-bullet" 13mm armour?
> Or T-35, 55ton, 5 turrets, 30mm side armor (50mm front), hardly able
> to move? T-28, 3 turrets, 30mm armor? T-26, 16mm armor, PRODUCED
> 11000?
Totally irrelevant. The bulk of German armor was not made of
better machines. PzKfw. I's and II's were no better than T-26's
and BT's, actually they were worse. And the PzKfw. III was
no match for either the T-34 or the KV. The Soviets had
more T-34's and KV-1's than the Germans had Panzer III's.
So, the "technical inferiority" argument does not hold water.
The Germans routed the Red Army in 1941 because they had
superior tactical skills and very competent military leaders
(especially the Panzerwaffe), while the Russians were
inexperienced, had poor tactics and their leadership was
appalling.
> BTW, only commander vehicles were equipped with radios -
> imagine controlling the tank platoon using flag signals and flare
> launchers.
Again, poor choices and obsolete tactics by Soviet military
leaders.
> There's no practical difference were the generals enemy agents
> or just dumb. They were punished but it was too late.
The Soviet generals were enemy agents? This is ridiculous and
insulting to the memory of good officers whose only fault was to
not agree 100% with Stalin. As far as tanks go, in the 1930's, the
Russians were world leaders and actually the Germans learned
much of their tank strategy from them when they exchanged
technology and know-how in the mid thirties. The proof is that the
only survivor of the purges, Marshal Zukhov, ended up being the
only general who really knew how to use tanks because all others
had disappeared.
> Again, you completely missed the point. The main purpose of
> tanks is to support attacking infantry. Enemy tanks are up to
> the anti-tank artillery - mostly self-proppeled assault guns.
> Only dispair forsed Soviet tank commanders use tanks against
> tanks en masse.
Sorry but Soviet tactics at the start of Barbarossa were plain
suicidal. The irony is that the Russians had an extensive range
of tanks, from amphibious ones (T-40) to cavalry ones (BT) to
infantry ones (T-26) to medium ones (T-28, T-34) and heavy
ones (T-35, KV.) The problem is that the generals who knew
how to use them had been purged and the idiots Stalin had
put in their place didn't know jack shit about armor tactics.
The result was that ANY tank was considered *just a tank*
and used in frontal assaults with disastrous results. The Germans
would have never spearheaded an assault with Panzers I's
and II's because they knew those tin cans could only be used
for reconnaissance and light duties.
>> The largest air force in the world was
>> basically wiped out in 48 hours.
> At the start of war, USSR western military districts had total 304
> modern interceptors, the most under ever-continuing trial. Other 3156
> interceptors were of antiqued kinds, e.g. I-15, I-153, I-16.
Irrelevant. Most air forces in the world at the time had obsolete
fighters in service. Think about the Gloster Gladiator or the Fiat
Cr.32/42.
> Luftwaffe used (according to the German sources, see. Balke U. Der
> Luftkrieg im Europa, Teil 1, Kublenz, 1989. S.416-418) total 1233
> interceptors, including 593 Me-109F, 423 Me109E and 217 Me-110. In
> total, 2604 war planes. Plus ~1000 plates were from allies (Finland
> etc.), quite outdated. Luftwaffe interceptors were much better than
> Soviets, especialy in speed and climbing rate, thx. to advanced German
> technology. They had radios and radio navigation, too (while Soviet
> pilots used compass as all-in-one-wonder navigation).
So what? MAYBE, just MAYBE it has a lot to do with the best
Soviet aircraft designers being *IN PRISON* and not at work thanks
to Stalin? Think about it. And BTW, your figures aren't quite right.
According to OFFICIAL Luftwaffe figures (as quoted in Dr. Alfred
Price's "The Luftwaffe Data Book"), the Germans had a total of
898 single-engine fighters at the start of Barbarossa, and that includes
*ALL* theaters of operations. The number of 109's actually committed
to the assault on Russia was much smaller. As for the 110's, most
of them had been mauled in the Battle of Britain. For the record, the
Luftflotten that supported Barbarossa had a total of 665 *serviceable*
109's and 138 110's.
This website has the correct figures:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2072/LWJul42.html
Once again, the real reason the Luftwaffe dominated the air was
superior tactics and more experienced pilots. It's no coincidence
that ALL Luftwaffe Experten scored heavily on the Eastern Front.
When Hartmann was briefly transferred to France, he only managed
to shoot down a few British/American planes. The VVS had no
battle formations, their fighters in 1941 attacked in what all German
pilots described as a "clusterfuck" and were easily shot down.
The first time the Soviets managed to fight on almost equal terms
with the Luftwaffe was at Kursk, in the summer of 1943.
>> In 1941, the Germans
>> took over one million Soviet prisoners of war, 650,000
>> in a single operation (the capture of Kiev.)
> A few years before they kicked every opposing butt all over
> the Europe.
No other European country had so many tanks, aircraft and
guns as the Red Army. As a matter of facts, even if you put
them all together, they would still be smaller than the Red
Army. If the Soviets had better leaders, with the assets they
had they could have easily stopped the Germans dead after
a month or so.
>> To conclude, both Hitler and Stalin were cheating.
> And Hitler failed.
Stalinism failed too, after killing millions.
Nuke_...@shaw.ca
destroyed the soviets. He should've swallowed his pride and organized a
USSR-mutineer contigent in the wehrmachts push on the east, they
could've got hundreds of thousands anti-bolshevic supporters.
Anton N. Mescheryakov
> "Anton N. Mescheryakov" <tar...@ihed.ras.ru> wrote in message
> news:40a04f3e.05041...@posting.google.com...
>
> >> Too bad Stalin did not believe those reports, and that's
> >> no myth.
>
> > I've already posted the real deployment orders somewhere at
> > soc.culture.russian. Western military districts reported operation
> > readiness at least 3 days before the strike. In fact, some initial
> > Nazi strikes (e.g. massive air assaults of our fleets at Baltics and
> > Black Sea) were complete failure (compare to Pearl Harbour).
> > Others were not.
>
> Good luck re-writing history...
myths. I've seen people who don't know Poland and Germany torn
Chechoslovakia aprat in complete concert.
> >> Moreover, all his best military officers had been
> >> purged in the previous years and Soviet military leadership
> >> at the start of Barbarossa was appalling.
>
> > Only ~5% of command staff were "purged", it's comparable to
> > the natural loss rate due to pension retirement etc.
>
> And the source for this claim is?
>Once again, good luck for your
> effort to re-write history.
> > In fact, this cleansing of the military staff was too late, because
> > treacherous or simply incompetent generals already did their
> > best to worsen the Soviet odds.
>
> So, now all the purged generals were incompetent traitors?
Not all, but enough.
> Who are you, Stalin's ghost?
>
> >> The Germans
> >> attacked with some 3,500 tanks and managed to destroy
> >> or capture a whopping 17,000 Soviet ones in the first year
> >> of the war alone.
>
> > Do you mean tanks like BT - with so-called "anti-bullet" 13mm armour?
> > Or T-35, 55ton, 5 turrets, 30mm side armor (50mm front), hardly able
> > to move? T-28, 3 turrets, 30mm armor? T-26, 16mm armor, PRODUCED
> > 11000?
>
> Totally irrelevant. The bulk of German armor was not made of
> better machines. PzKfw. I's and II's were no better than T-26's
> and BT's, actually they were worse. And the PzKfw. III was
> no match for either the T-34 or the KV. The Soviets had
> more T-34's and KV-1's than the Germans had Panzer III's.
> So, the "technical inferiority" argument does not hold water.
No, it did. Utter lack of radio communications and good optics were
(amost) grave mistakes.
> The Germans routed the Red Army in 1941 because they had
> superior tactical skills and very competent military leaders
> (especially the Panzerwaffe), while the Russians were
> inexperienced, had poor tactics and their leadership was
> appalling.
So why do you defence the incompetent RKKA command staff?
> > BTW, only commander vehicles were equipped with radios -
> > imagine controlling the tank platoon using flag signals and flare
> > launchers.
>
> Again, poor choices and obsolete tactics by Soviet military
> leaders.
>
> > There's no practical difference were the generals enemy agents
> > or just dumb. They were punished but it was too late.
>
> The Soviet generals were enemy agents? This is ridiculous and
> insulting to the memory of good officers whose only fault was to
> not agree 100% with Stalin.
Soviet war vehicles, organization and tactics were of mediocre
quality. They practical application was the complete failure. War
planning is up to the high military staff. So these generals were 100%
not agree with the reality of the future war. Russian people paid 26
million lives for the incompetence of these traitors.
> As far as tanks go, in the 1930's, the
> Russians were world leaders and actually the Germans learned
> much of their tank strategy from them when they exchanged
> technology and know-how in the mid thirties.
There is no "tank strategy". There is just "strategy". Germans used
combined arms strategy so tanks played the role of armoured strike
force for infantry. Soviet degenerals piled tanks over tanks and
called it "tank corps" - useless without infantry support. Some other
degenerals created completely wrong regulations etc.
> The proof is that the
> only survivor of the purges, Marshal Zukhov, ended up being the
> only general who really knew how to use tanks because all others
> had disappeared.
>
Zhukov is a well-known butcher of Russian soldiers and a
self-respected strategic genius.
> > Again, you completely missed the point. The main purpose of
> > tanks is to support attacking infantry. Enemy tanks are up to
> > the anti-tank artillery - mostly self-proppeled assault guns.
> > Only dispair forsed Soviet tank commanders use tanks against
> > tanks en masse.
>
> Sorry but Soviet tactics at the start of Barbarossa were plain
> suicidal. The irony is that the Russians had an extensive range
> of tanks, from amphibious ones (T-40) to cavalry ones (BT) to
> infantry ones (T-26) to medium ones (T-28, T-34) and heavy
> ones (T-35, KV.) The problem is that the generals who knew
> how to use them had been purged
This generals did a lot of (almost fatal) mistakes in war planning.
Their "purge" was too late. For example, none of the abovementioned
Soviet tanks had a _commander_. In these tanks, commanding person was
forced to reload the gun etc.
Some best Soviet aircraft designers being *IN PRISON* and AT work
thanks to Stalin. Others were free. But Russia was a poor, undeveloped
agrarian country in beginning of XX century. Soviet rule made it one
among the best industrial and scientific states (today Russia is
decaying towards the natural level). But it's ridiculous to compare
193x-s USSR with the most advanced state on the continent. In WW2
Soviet designers were unable to make war vehicles of the German
quality.
> And BTW, your figures aren't quite right.
> According to OFFICIAL Luftwaffe figures (as quoted in Dr. Alfred
> Price's "The Luftwaffe Data Book"), the Germans had a total of
> 898 single-engine fighters at the start of Barbarossa, and that includes
> *ALL* theaters of operations. The number of 109's actually committed
> to the assault on Russia was much smaller. As for the 110's, most
> of them had been mauled in the Battle of Britain. For the record, the
> Luftflotten that supported Barbarossa had a total of 665 *serviceable*
> 109's and 138 110's.
>
> This website has the correct figures:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2072/LWJul42.html
>
> Once again, the real reason the Luftwaffe dominated the air was
> superior tactics and more experienced pilots. It's no coincidence
> that ALL Luftwaffe Experten scored heavily on the Eastern Front.
Yeah. Battle for Britain, German loses for the 1st week (Aug. 11-17):
261.
Barbarossa, 1st week (Jun. 22-28): 445.
Battle for Britain, first 4 weeks: 786.
Barbarossa, first 4 weeks: 1171.
> When Hartmann was briefly transferred to France, he only managed
> to shoot down a few British/American planes. The VVS had no
> battle formations, their fighters in 1941 attacked in what all German
> pilots described as a "clusterfuck" and were easily shot down.
So why do you defend generals trained their pilots fly a
"clusterfuck".
> The first time the Soviets managed to fight on almost equal terms
> with the Luftwaffe was at Kursk, in the summer of 1943.
>
> >> In 1941, the Germans
> >> took over one million Soviet prisoners of war, 650,000
> >> in a single operation (the capture of Kiev.)
>
> > A few years before they kicked every opposing butt all over
> > the Europe.
>
> No other European country had so many tanks, aircraft and
> guns as the Red Army. As a matter of facts, even if you put
> them all together, they would still be smaller than the Red
> Army. If the Soviets had better leaders, with the assets they
> had they could have easily stopped the Germans dead after
> a month or so.
>
> >> To conclude, both Hitler and Stalin were cheating.
>
> > And Hitler failed.
>
> Stalinism failed too, after killing millions.
Sadly, all subsequent Soviets leaders were inferior compared to Stalin
and they finally managed to destroy anything he did. Gorby, praised
at the West as much as hated at home, was just a grave-digger.
pan Piotr Glownia
Never would happen with Hitler and German army...
These USSR-mutineers would be seen as traitors to Slavonic
race.
Futhermore none Slav will ever believe Aryans would
ever come to help Slavs... Just next conquerors to be beaten
back to their homeland from Eastern Europe.
If Pilsudski however would do so with USSR-mutinners
it would happen easily in 1934 after the hunger massacres on
Ukrainians. Pilsduski wasn't Aryan like Hitler even if Polish
army from 1918 was racially 75% Aryan+Jewish. Pilsudski
was a Slav. He would be greated as brother comming to rescue.
Futhermore all Slavs would believe other Slavs to come
to their rescue.
Take an example from Kosovo with Serbs
greeting Rusian troops! QED beyond any doubt!
Nuke_...@shaw.ca
were the only friends they had.
He (pidulski) would be greated as brother comming to rescue. Yah kinda
like the germans were everywhere from latvia to the ukraine, even the
greater russians themselves hated stalin. The only reason the fouhgt
for him is because if they didn't there own men would shoot them in the
back.
pan Piotr Glownia
Yes I do not deny that for some part of Ukrainian society
even German troops were liberators from Stalins terror. Just
imagine the size of success of Polish army under command
of Pilsudski in the same place. The entire Russian generals
with their armies would fight side by side Polish forces of
Pilsudski like general Petlura did earlier in his time. To be
precise there were no Ukrainian army units changing sides
in that confrontation in 1941, were there. My point entirely.
I think that they fought poorly, when they were forced to fight
for Stalin and communism and the reason they did so wasn't that
they would be shoot into backs, but that their entire families would
have to face this fate too. We Slavs aren't cowards and by our
medieval customs all Slavs were warriors without exception.
However, when Stalin saw German forces near his Moscow
he started begging people to fight for other cause then Stalin and
communism. It was war for motherland Rossija and for Slavonic
species fighting for survival against alien race West. Then tide of war
changed dramatically. Even starving to death civilians in sieged
cities kind of rised up with new fighting spirit, which carried German
regular forces backwards everywhere. Then shooting into backs
was rather a tool against panicking cowards. You know what
is the legend about Slavs and cowardice? They do not mix.
So Slavs weren't the people, who were shot into back, but other
non-Slavonic people from Eastern Europe like for example Aryan
German colonists from Russia, Balts, Caucasians or Mongols.
Philip Davidson
Dance to your daddy, my little man
Dance to your daddy, my little laddie
Dance to your daddy, my little man
You shall have a fish and you shall have a fin
You shall have a herring when the boat comes in
Dance to your daddy, my little laddie
Dance to your daddy, my little man
When you are a man and fit to take a wife
You shall have a lassie; love her all your life
Dance to your daddy, my little laddie
Dance to your daddy, my little man
She will be a lassie; you will be a man
You shall have a family; love them all you can
Dance to your daddy, my little laddie
Dance to your daddy, my little man
Dance to your daddy, my little laddie
Dance to your daddy, my little man
Dance to your daddy, my little laddie
Dance to your daddy, my little man
Captain!
"pan Piotr Glownia" <Odrodzona-Polska.usu...@swipnet.se>
wrote in message news:WT67e.44739$Of5....@nntpserver.swip.net...
stalin deported the volga germans to kazakhstan.
Philip Davidson
http://www.mirnog.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/flappynews.wav
http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/images/p-jokes/toilet/long-turd.jpg
I was going to type but I couldn't be bothered
you know the feeling when you have seen it all before
the same old retarded shit. ZzZzZzZ
CrustyTheClown
> http://www.drypool.com/cgi-bin/system.pl?id=isdgb&img=I1113330538
>
>
> http://www.mirnog.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/flappynews.wav
>
>
> http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/images/p-jokes/toilet/long-turd.jpg
>
>
>
> I was going to type but I couldn't be bothered
> you know the feeling when you have seen it all before
> the same old retarded shit. ZzZzZzZ
>
You looked in the mirror?
Philip Davidson
CrustyTheClown wrote:
> "Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1113439421....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > http://www.drypool.com/cgi-bin/system.pl?id=isdgb&img=I1113330538
> >
> >
> > http://www.mirnog.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/flappynews.wav
> >
> >
> > http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/images/p-jokes/toilet/long-turd.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> > I was going to type but I couldn't be bothered
> > you know the feeling when you have seen it all before
> > the same old retarded shit. ZzZzZzZ
> >
>
> You looked in the mirror?
>
Yes I looked in a mirror and I saw your mother
the old whore going to work on a Rottweiler's cock.
Fucking filthy old slut!
Philip Davidson
CrustyTheClown wrote:
> "Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1113439421....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > http://www.drypool.com/cgi-bin/system.pl?id=isdgb&img=I1113330538
> >
> >
> > http://www.mirnog.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/flappynews.wav
> >
> >
> > http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/images/p-jokes/toilet/long-turd.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> > I was going to type but I couldn't be bothered
> > you know the feeling when you have seen it all before
> > the same old retarded shit. ZzZzZzZ
> >
>
> You looked in the mirror?
>
Yes I looked in a mirror and I saw your mother
the old whore going to work on a Rottweiler's cock.
Fucking filthy old slut!
Hang_em_high
CrustyTheClown
>
> CrustyTheClown wrote:
>> "Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1113439421....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> > http://www.drypool.com/cgi-bin/system.pl?id=isdgb&img=I1113330538
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.mirnog.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/flappynews.wav
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/images/p-jokes/toilet/long-turd.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I was going to type but I couldn't be bothered
>> > you know the feeling when you have seen it all before
>> > the same old retarded shit. ZzZzZzZ
>> >
>>
>> You looked in the mirror?
>>
>
>
> Yes I looked in a mirror and I saw your mother
> the old whore going to work on a Rottweiler's cock.
> Fucking filthy old slut!
>
Poor Phil. It didn't take long for SCR to bring out his true colors
(colours).
The Brits just can't take the pressure...'cept for Tony of course.
CrustyTheClown
"Hang_em_high" <Nuke_...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:1113612565.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> You do know stalin wasn't a slav aye? He was georgian....
>
Yes, from Atlanta. He asked worked for CNN as an intern for a little while.
pan Piotr Glownia
Eastern Front were not only Slavs like Polish, Russians, Ukrainians
or Bielorusins present. There were many Mongol people from Asia
as well as Aryan people from Eastern Europe and Caucasus feeling
with us Slavs solidarity in our common furious hatred against Aryan
supremacy. Some would think that Mongol people are not of Semite
race, but they were treated by Anti-Semites like Jews anyway. Therefore
I am convinced positively that we Slavs will always have an ease to
find lots of brave allies everywhere, where our enemies are making their
enemies. Enemy of enemy is always a good potential material for
an ally. I think Slavonic supremacy as a natural force on this planet
present already couple good centuries and giving proper stability on
Balkans, Eastern Europe and North Asia will always have many
non-Slavonic supporters. It is our Slavonic natural ways that enlighten
inferior humans to admire our brave and noble Slavonic spirits and
greatness of our brotherhood.
I hear lots of bad mouthing about native people of America
from Aryan supremacists. Are these American natives really so bad...
ehem smelling... ehem for Aryan supremacy? Hm... I personally can't
help notice outright new posibilities and opportunities in ensuring
of spread of Slavonic superiority far beyond Europe and Asia into
both American continents. New friends, who possibly would be very
greatefull for including them into Eastern European influence zone.
Our Slavonic ancestors claimed that more Slavs standing together
then the greater force we are. To have friends beyong our own rows
won't harm us Slavs either. Of course so long it servs our Slavonic
enlighten selfinterests always.
Remember the Georgian commie-creature Stalin, who almost
hated us Slavs intimately for our couple centuries superiority over
Georgian state and Caucasus. It wasn't us Slavs who forced him
into our "brotherhood of Slavs" camp. It was Aryan "white race"
superiority forces of Hitler camping couple kilometers outside of
Moscow. As I said our Slavonic superiority is a natural beacon of
light on this dark planet. Even if we Slavs are an aquired taste for
some people. It doesn't change the status quo, does it. So I heard
after the emotional Stalin plead for help and support over radio to all
Slavs the Aryan superiority camp outside Moscow did not
advanced much further over there. It was blamed in media mostly
on weather conditions. Well, I can live with that as we Slavs are
not overly presumtuous or arogant like some inferior species
of humans on this planet.
I know very well who the commie-creature Stalin was and
what he did. Commies, Nazzies and Anti-Semites really do not
differ much. It is always the same pesky alien lot in the Eastern
Europe. We Slavs will always have problems alike these with
Stalin or Hitler, if we won't clean our home and stand together
united as one big clan. That's just the way it is.
Philip Davidson
CrustyTheClown wrote:
> "Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1113523322.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > CrustyTheClown wrote:
> >> "Philip Davidson" <Philip2...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1113439421....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
http://www.drypool.com/cgi-bin/system.pl?id=isdgb&img=I1113330538
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > http://www.mirnog.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/flappynews.wav
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/images/p-jokes/toilet/long-turd.jpg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I was going to type but I couldn't be bothered
> >> > you know the feeling when you have seen it all before
> >> > the same old retarded shit. ZzZzZzZ
> >> >
> >>
> >> You looked in the mirror?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Yes I looked in a mirror and I saw your mother
> > the old whore going to work on a Rottweiler's cock.
> > Fucking filthy old slut!
> >
>
> Poor Phil. It didn't take long for SCR to bring out his true colors
> (colours).
>
> The Brits just can't take the pressure...'cept for Tony of course.
>
>
I'm feeling a bit queer today so wipe your arse
with a face-cloth washcloth? and I will be around to say hello
some time in the future.
All my love. Love and kisses darling.
x x x x
_____________________________
ID signature
Philip Davidson,
10 Ronald Avenue
West Ham
E15 3AH
East London
Phone: ( 020 ) 511 9341
Mobile phone 07906821566
Hang_em_high
blood.
Henry Hooray
> slavs have Turco-Ugaric, Hunnic, Tartar, alani, avar, khazar and mongol
> blood.
Is it red, by any chance?
Henry.
pan Piotr Glownia
>blood.
Well, we Slavs like pretty babes even if they don't match
our own color of skin. It's a well known fact. Even some Anti-Semites
tried to nail Serbs for their sexual exceses during time of a war
as a crimes against humanity. Well these nutz suddenly can't
really understand that all normal men are heterosexual, but
lies and propaganda is more important to Anti-Semites like
a water for a fish, ay? Without lies how the concept of Aryan
superiority in first place could arise. Impossible.
pan Piotr Glownia
This comment recalls my memory of a stupid Byelorusin Aryan
peasant in begining of XX century, who stubbed a Polish Nobleman
with fork to see if the Polish Nobles have indeed a blue colored blood
and not red colored blood. So you see the blood is not red but blue,
as a figure of speach, which is plainly incomprehensible for inferior
human beings. However this mataphor should be quite understandable
for molecular biology scietists studing process of inheritance of
behavioural, intelectual and mental capabilities from father to son
not only in human beings. This is a God's fundamental law or as some
inferior mentaly sencient creatures prefer to call it a nature's fundamental
law. I rather prefer as alternative to name "God's fundamental law"
also "Science's fundamental law", as the one and the other is clearly
the same and the one.
Captain!
"pan Piotr Glownia" <Odrodzona-Polska.usu...@swipnet.se>
wrote in message news:K%s8e.46410$Of5....@nntpserver.swip.net...
> In article <3cev4pF...@individual.net>, "Henry Hooray"
> <c2mi...@sneakeLEAVETHISOUTmail.com> wrote:
>>"Hang_em_high" <Nuke_...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>news:1113715196.0...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>> slavs have Turco-Ugaric, Hunnic, Tartar, alani, avar, khazar and mongol
>>> blood.
>>
>>Is it red, by any chance?
>>
>>Henry.
>
> This comment recalls my memory of a stupid Byelorusin Aryan
> peasant in begining of XX century, who stubbed a Polish Nobleman
> with fork to see if the Polish Nobles have indeed a blue colored blood
> and not red colored blood. So you see the blood is not red but blue,
> as a figure of speach, which is plainly incomprehensible for inferior
> human beings. However this mataphor should be quite understandable
> for molecular biology scietists studing process of inheritance of
> behavioural, intelectual and mental capabilities from father to son
> not only in human beings. This is a God's fundamental law or as some
> inferior mentaly sencient creatures prefer to call it a nature's
> fundamental
> law. I rather prefer as alternative to name "God's fundamental law"
> also "Science's fundamental law", as the one and the other is clearly
> the same and the one.
>
lol
CrustyTheClown
Hang_em_high
Henry Hooray
> the part that makes their skin dark, brain dumb and face ugly.
So all people with a bit of hat blood are more stupid, are darker (there are
no albinos, for instance), and are uglier than for instance you and me?
In your dreams, buddy; what you're displaying is at the very best an extreme
and probably deliberate misunderstanding of fundamental statistics, and more
likely just to be typically stupid, unintelligent and illogical racism.
For what it's worth, HEH, I personally don't consider you to be a shining
example of an intelligent, cultured and civilised human being. You're just a
plain silly racist thug. And, as with your equally obnoxious racist
bedfellows, you cling to this misplaced belief in your own 'superiority':
more fool you.
Henry.
Hang_em_high
Hang_em_high
would rather suck piotrs moldy lice infested dick before I even looked
at your demented american jew face. You are less than dirt you fucking
kike suking fuck
Nestor
> In 1938, when Hitler invaded Czech Poland did invade Czech too.
> In 1939, when Hitler invaded Poland Russia did invade Poland too.
> In 1941, when Hitler invaded Russia NONE SLAV DID INVADE RUSSIA.
>
> So, Hitler's failure was inevitable. It is a proven historical fact
> that Aryan people can't beat Slav people without help of other Slav
> people.
What about the Byzantines who mastered various slavic countries and
populations and what about the mongolic tribe of Turks who did pretty
much the same.
Your historic ignorance astounds me slav, or must i say slav(e)? ;-))
> They are not sparky in their brains enough or got muscle big
> enough to equalize their deficiencies in... ehem...
>
> However, when Napoleon won in Russia and conquered the
> burned to the ground Moscow with help of Polish people he lost
> the Russian winter, because the Slavs helping him weren't fully
> independent people. The same it can be said about Ukrainians
> in 1941 helping Hitler. Hitler did lost also because of winter.
> Slaves are not Slavs, so simple it is always.
> We Polish never lost war because of winter. Russian
> or Ukrainians never lost any war because of winter either for that
> matter. To lose a war because of winter is for us Slavs the most
> stupid thing on this planet, that only Westerners are so dumb to do
> time after time. Even American general Custer didn't go to war
> with Indians without some Indian scouts. However just scouts
> are not a force to win wars with. I believe American general
> Custer was slain by Indians... How typical.
Henry Hooray
What glorious superiority you are displaying here, HEH.
You certainly represent the pinnacle of western civilisation, you are a
paragon of western values. Your expressions are worthy successors to those
of Sophocles, Dane, Shakespeare, Steinbeck and so on. Your intelligence
brings to mind Aristotle, Newton, Einstein (oops, perhaps Einstein doesn't
count - I'm not sure his obvious intelligence and humanity doesn't
contradict your silly racism).
How we all admire you.
Henry.
Henry Hooray
news:3cht8jF...@individual.net...
> of Sophocles, Dane, Shakespeare, Steinbeck and so on. Your intelligence
Should of course have been Dante, for those few who hadn't worked that one
out by themselves, e.g. unintelligent and uneducated racists.
Henry.