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Re: RPK's research findings. Confusion reigns. Malays are PENDATANGS
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Jesus Isa Yeshua Jewish Christ , the Human Scum who claimed to be THE SON of GOD , was a STRONG Anti TAWHID
Jan 17, 2012, 4:56:39 AM1/17/12
to
yes
Malays are pendatangs from the Philippines Mindanao .
Dark Skin Filipino in the mountains were the original
Malays .
DARK SKIN FILIPINO migrated through Indonesia to get to
Malayu penisular .
But Dark Skin Filipino , Dark Skin Khmers , Dark Skin
Indonesians were all original natives of SE ASIA,
all CHINESE in SE ASIA , in ASEAN , were foreigners in ASEAN
and
are still foreigners in SE ASIA , because all original
natives of SE ASIA were all DARK SKIN people .
Vietnamese were originally from the Yue territories ,
from HangZhou in China ,.
Jan 17, 2:25 pm, "abu bakar" <abu ba...@tmnet.com.my> wrote:
> Today, Hang Li Po, Hang Tuah, etc., are debunked. Tomorrow, it could be
> others whom are said to have also existed will be debunked. And, for
> thousands of years, millions of people have been killed for not believing in
> events that never happened and in people who never existed.
>
> NO HOLDS BARRED
>
> Raja Petra Kamarudin
>
> History books to stick to facts
>
> ‘Hang Li Po, Hang Tuah did not exist’
>
> I think it was probably ten years or so ago that I wrote about the
> probability of Hang Tuah and his cohorts being a mere myth. The other
> possibility is that if they did exist, then they were all Chinese and not
> Malays -- bodyguards of the Chinese princess, Hang Li Po.
>
> Of course, the Malay ‘nationalists’ were outraged at my suggestion. Even
> renowned historians did not utter such a possibility. How can I, with no PhD
> to my name, come to that conclusion?
>
> I suppose it is all about whether you have a PhD to your name. If you do not
> then what you say matters not and is of no significance. In fact, you are
> not qualified to make comments if you are not a certified ‘authority’.
>
> My reasoning (yes, I apply reasoning, as what we were taught to do in the
> Philosophy of Religion course that I recently took) is that if Hang Li Po
> was Chinese then the rest of the Hang tribe must have been Chinese as well.
> If Hang Li Po was Chinese, how can Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Kasturi, Hang
> Lekir and Hang Lekiu all be Malays?
>
> The next point is on the special Silat (martial arts) that the five ‘Malay’
> warriors were said to have practiced. It was a Silat that no one had ever
> seen before and is said to be more powerful than the traditional Silat that
> the Malays practiced.
>
> My argument was that it must have been Chinese Kungfu and not Silat. That
> was why the Malays had never seen it before. And the fact that Hang Tuah and
> gang beat the shit out of the Malays was probably because it was a very
> unique form of Kungfu, more superior to Silat.
>
> I mean, Silat is full of dancing before the exponent moves in for the kill.
> In Kungfu, you just step in and beat the daylights out of the dancer before
> he knows what hit him.
>
> The next point is about the story regarding Hang Tuah going over to
> Indonesia as an envoy of the Sultan of Melaka. The story goes that when he
> was there they tried to get him drunk so that they can beat him up. However,
> never mind how much liquor they gave him, he held his liquor well and did
> not fall down drunk. When they made their move on him, Hang Tuah beat the
> shit out of his attackers, sober as hell.
>
> Now, if Hang Tuah drank liquor and could hold his liquor well, this means he
> could not have been Malay. First of all, he drank. Secondly, he must have
> been a regular drinker to be able to drink so much and still stay sober
> enough to beat off his attackers.
>
> Anyway, I was basing my reasoning on the stories that we were told. Now it
> appears that all these stories were myths after all. Yet, Malaysian
> historians and history being taught in Malaysian schools told us that all
> these stories were true and that all these people existed even though there
> is no tangible evidence to support the theory of their existence.
>
> This is exactly what I have been saying about religion. Hang Tuah and
> whatnot are supposed to have existed a mere few hundred years ago when they
> already had recorded history. Yet, today, that has been put to question.
> What about stories of people and events that were supposed to have happened
> thousands of years ago at a time when there was no recorded history and when
> stories were passed down through the generations by word of mouth? Would
> there not be even more reason to question these so-called ‘facts’?
>
> When I talk about religious history most would respond with dogma. They will
> quote verses from the Bible or the Quran to counter my arguments. What these
> people can’t seem to understand is that they are arguing theology. And there
> is a big difference between theology, history, philosophy, sociology,
> anthropology, etc.
>
> Theology is based on dogma, not on history or whatever. And the belief in
> dogma is based on faith, not evidence. If you demand evidence to support
> dogma, then the dogma would be demolished. You must accept dogma based on
> the lack of evidence. Hence it is called faith, the belief in the unseen or
> the unproven.
>
> It will be impossible to engage when we are not on the same page. I talk
> about one thing and you talk about another. And you apply reasoning in
> circles to argue your case. I would be even more blunt in saying that you
> can’t use a lie to support a lie.
>
> For example, you tell someone that Raja Petra Kamarudin says he is a Prophet
> of God. Someone then asks you: how do you know this? You reply: it is
> written in this book. This person then asks you: who wrote this book? You
> reply: Raja Petra Kamarudin wrote this book.
>
> This would be called reasoning in circles.
>
> Or, you reply: it is written in this book. This person then asks you: who
> wrote this book? You reply: it was written by someone 200 years after Raja
> Petra Kamarudin died. You ask: where did this person get the information
> since it was written 200 years after Raja Petra Kamarudin died? You reply:
> the information was passed down by word of mouth over almost ten
> generations.
>
> If you want to believe that Hang Tuah, or whoever it may be, did exist and
> that this is what they are alleged to have said and done, carry on. No one
> is stopping you from believing what you want to believe even if you want to
> believe in the tooth fairy. Just do not force others to also believe the
> same thing and then arrest them and send them to jail on charges of heresy
> if they do not also believe what you believe.
>
> That is the issue here.
>
> Today, Hang Li Po, Hang Tuah, etc., are debunked. Tomorrow, it could be
> others whom are said to have also existed will be debunked. And, for
> thousands of years, millions of people have been killed for not believing in
> events that never happened and in people who never existed.
>
> Set as favorite Bookmark Email this
> Comments (16)
> ...
> written by flyer168, January 17, 2012 14:59:17
> Hello,
>
> How about this...
>
> Hang Tuah Animation On The Cards
>
> KUALA LUMPUR, July 26 -- The Information Communication and Culture Ministry
> will adapt the Hikayat Hang Tuah (The Epic of Hang Tuah) into an animation
> series, including possibly a full-length animation film to promote the
> legendary Malay warrior's saga at the international arena.
>
> Minister Datuk Seri Dr Rais Yatim said for a start, the ministry would hold
> a discussion with animation experts and identify the team for the project.
>
> "If the Malays especially do not have pride in Hang Tuah's legend, then it
> would be a waste because the English literature has Camelot and the Chinese
> literature has over 222 legends," he told reporters after declaring open the
> "Hang Tuah: The Legendary Malay Warrior" exhibition at the National Library
> here.
>
> Rais said there were plenty of compelling stories to tell from the era of
> the Melaka Sultanate especially concerning the ties with China, which he
> said, would provide a huge cast of characters that would incluide Admiral
> Cheng Ho, Princess Hang Li Po and Hang Tuah and his warrior peers.
>
> "All these are ingredients for an engaging animation series," he said,
> adding that film animation producers should be allowed the opportunities to
> produce the series and to market them overseas.
>
> He said the animation series would also incorporate positive values from the
> epic which could be a source of inspiration for today's society.
>
> "It is important for the Epic of Hang Tuah to be made a national epic
> because it portrays positive values as well as the 1Malaysia values such as
> loyalty, trustworthiness and high degree of idealism," he said.
>
> The exhibition, which takes place until Aug 31, is in conjunction with KL
> Festival 2010 and showcases illustrations, artefacts and books on Hang
> Tuah. - Bernama
>
> Hang Tuah Animation On The Cards -http://www.dailymail.com.my/in...-the-cards
>
> You be the judge.
>
> Shalom.
>
> +0
>
> ...
> written by lakian, January 17, 2012 13:36:55
> rpk,so the well in malacca name after han tuah is storey too?i was taught by
> my teacher that the water from this well would not over flow within few cm
> above the top-edge of a glass.do you believe jackie chan the hongkong film
> star was swiming from china to hongkong and also there are so many others
> when they were few years old.the mongol great empiror gangis khan conquered
> all the way from mongol to europe on the horse back!this was happened
> thousands years ago,when you are talking about han,its only a hundred or two
> years ago.
> suppose the history said han was malay,so all became true!if i say malays do
> not actually exist at all,they are only a creature of a mixed from so many
> ethnicity group.for example,indian n bugis,arab n java or madura or dayak n
> chinese,burmese,vietnamese.........etc etc.........................in this
> land called malayu.malay is a place not a race.why called malay?may be we
> have to ask the phd to search in china or .......!
>
> +3
>
> ...
> written by Admiral Tojo, January 17, 2012 12:55:19
> Bullshit finally surfaces. If you go to Jonker Street in Melacca, there is
> the grave of so called Hang Kasturi right next to a Chinese Temple. The
> grave is a Chinese Grave, by the way it looks and its locality right next to
> the temple.Ibrahim Ali, what is your comment if you have any? Too
> intellectual for you?
>
> Shalom
>
> +13
>
> ...
> written by singhkris, January 17, 2012 12:43:02
> The Malays believe in myths. Knowing this Mamathir created another myth and
> fed them. He said "I am a Malay and a defender of Malays". The Malays
> believed them and he plundered the country for many many years!
>
> +12
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 12:29:22
> "Mysterious Race Changing Trick"- created by The Malaysian Government.
>
> Still, Malaysians are still only second to the Jews (who by the way, are the
> only other people in the world who are defined by a religion)
> So perhaps David Copperfield has yet to learn a few tricks on the mass
> deception skills of the Malaysian Government?
>
> +5
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 12:24:28
> In a nutshell, the British Colonial Masters, who, for lack of a better
> description, needed a "blanket" category for ease of classification, used
> the term "Malay".
>
> The only other logical explanation, which I have heard, was that "Malaya"
> came as a derivative of "Himalaya", where at Langkasuka, or Lembah Bujang
> today was where the Indians were describing the
> locals as "Malai" which means "Hill People" in Tamil.
> This made perfect sense as the focal point at that time was at Gunung Jerai,
> and the entire peninsular had a "Mountain Range" "Banjaran Titiwangsa", as
> we call it.
> The Mandarin and Cantonese accurately maintain the accurate pronunciation of
> "Malai Ren" and "Malai Yun" respectively till this very day. Where "ren" and
> "yun" both mean "peoples".
>
> Interestingly, "Kadar" and "Kidara", Hindi and Sanskrit words accurately
> describe "Kedah" of today. They both mean "fertile Land for Rice
> cultivation.
> Again, a name given by the Indians 2,000yrs ago during the "Golden Hindu
> Era" for a duration of 1,500yrs.
>
> It was during this "Golden Hindu Era" that the new term which the Hindu
> Malay leaders also adopted the titles, "Sultan" and "Raja".
> The Malay Royalty were Hindu at that time, as all of Southeast Asia was
> under strong Indian influence, including Borrobudor, and Angkor Watt. Bali
> today still practices devout Hindu Beliefs.
> The snake amulet worn by the Sultans of today, The Royal Dias, and even the
> "Pelamin" for weddings are tell-tale signs of these strong Indian
> influences.
> So, it was NOT Parameswara who was the first Sultan in Malaya. Sultanage
> existed approximately 1,500yrs in Kedah before he set foot on the Peninsular
> during the "Golden Hindu Era" of Malaysia.
> And they were all Hindu.
>
> "PreHistory of Malaysia" also talks about the "Lost Kingdom" of the "Chi-Tu"
> where the local Malay Kingdom were Buddhists. The rest of the "Malays" were
> Animistic Pagans.
> But you may say, "Sejarah Melayu" calls it "Melayu"? Yes, it does. Read it
> again; is it trying to describe the 200-odd population hamlet near Palembang
> by the name "Melayu"?(Google Earth will show this village).
>
> By that same definition, then, the Achehnese should be considered a "race".
> So should the Bugis and the Bataks, to be fair. Orang Acheh, Orang Bugis,
> Orang Laut, Orang Melayu now mean the same… descriptions
> of ethnic tribes, at best.
> So some apparently Patriotic person decided to upgrade the Malays from Orang
> Melayu (Malay People) to Bangsa Melayu (Malay Race) Good job in helping
> perpetuate the confusion.
> And since the "Malays" of today are not all descendants of the "Melayu"
> kampung in Jambi (if I remember correctly), the term Melayu has been wrongly
> termed. From Day One.
> Maybe this is why the Johoreans still insist on calling themselves either
> Bugis, or Javanese til today (except when it comes to receiving Government
> Handouts).
> So do the Achehnese on the West coast of Kedah & Perlis and the Kelantanese
> insist that they came from Champa, Vietnam.
>
> Moreover, the fact that the first 3 pages of "Sejarah Melayu" claim that
> "Melayu" comes from Alexander the Great and the West Indian Princess doesn't
> help.
> More importantly, it was written in 1623. By then, the Indians had been
> calling the locals "Malai" for 1,500 yrs already. So the name stuck….
>
> And with the Sejarah Melayu (The Malay Annals in page 1-3) naming the
> grandson of Iskandar Zulkarnain, and the West Indian Princess forming the
> Minangkabau.
> Whenever a Malay is asked about it, he usually says it is "Karut"
> (bullshit), but all Malayan based historians insist on using Sejarah Melayu
> as THE main reference book for which "Malay" history is based upon.
> The only other books are "Misa Melayu", "Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa",
> "Hikayat Pasai", "Hikayat Raja-Raja Siak" and "Hikayat Hang Tuah" among
> others; which sometimes brings up long and "heated" discussions.
>
> Interesting to note is one of the great "Malay" writers is called Munsyi
> Abdullah; who penned "Hikayat Abdullah" He was an Indian Muslim. Let's
> re-read that little bit. He was an Indian Muslim.
> How can an Indian change his race to be a Malay? He can change his shirt,
> his car, his religion and even his underwear, but how can anyone change his
> race?
> This must be The New Trick of the Century, which even David Copperfield will
> pay lots of money to watch (and perhaps learn).
>
> +19
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 12:20:50
> The Malaysian Government now has a serious case of Alzheimer's. Why?
> Simply because, they would accord the next Indonesian who tomorrow swims
> across the Straits of Malacca and bestow upon him with the apparently
> "prestigious title" of the Bumiputra status alongside others who imply have
> inhabited this land for hundreds of centuries. (prestigious, at least
> perceived by Malays)
> They also have a strange saying called "Ketuanan Melayu" which literally
> transalates into "The Lordship of Malays" The Malays still cannot identify
> till this day "who" or "what" the Malays have "Lordship" over.
> And they celebrate it gallantly and triumphantly by waving the Keris (wavy
> knife which has Hindu origins in Borrobudor. Ganesan is seen brandishing the
> Keris in a bass-relief sculpture.) during public meetings over National TV
> much like a Pagan Wicca Ceremony on Steroids.
> Let's all wait for that official press release to see who the "Malays" have
> Lordship over, shall we?
>
> Of the 3 books listed, "Contesting Malayness" (about S$32 for soft cover) is
> "banned" in Malaysia; you will need to "smuggle" it into Malaysia; for very
> obvious reasons.... or read it in Singapore if you don't feel like breaking
> the law.
> Incidentally, the Professor (Author) was invited to speak on this very
> subject circa 2 yrs ago, in KL, invited by the MBRAS. You can imagine the
> "chaos" this seminar created... Fortunately the FRU was not called in.
>
> The other, "Kingdoms of the Indonesian Archipelago, and the Malay
> Peninsular" (about RM84) are openly sold at all leading bookshops;
> Kinokuniya, MPH, Borders, Popular, Times, etc.
> You should be able to find a fair bit of what I've been quoting in this book
> too, but mind you, it is extremely heavy reading material, and you will find
> yourself struggling through the initial 200+ pages. It is extremely
> technical in nature.
> Maybe that's why it hasn't been banned (yet)…coz our authorities couldn't
> make head or tail of it? (FYI, if I weren't doing research for my film, I
> wouldn't have read it in its entirety)
>
> The "Sejarah Melayu" (about RM 50) however, is freely available at the
> University Malaya bookshop. I have both the English and Royal Malay version
> published by MBRAS.
> Alternatively, you could try reading the Jawi (Arabic Script) version if you
> are truly a sucker for unimaginable pain...... (may feel like circumcision)
>
> There are actually many sources for these Origins of Malays findings. Any
> older Philippino Museum Journal also carries these migration stories.
> This migration is also on display at the Philippines National Museum in
> Luzon. However, they end with the Aeta, and only briefly mention that the
> migration continued to Indonesia and Malaysia, but fully acknowledge that
> all Philippinos came from Taiwan. And before Taiwan, China.
> There is another book (part of a series) called the "Archipelago Series"
> endorsed by Tun Mahatir and Marina Mohammad, which states the very same
> thing right at the introduction on page one. "… that the Malays migrated out
> of Southern China some 6,000yrs ago…". I believe it is called the
> "Pre-History of Malaysia" Hard Cover, about RM99 found in (mostly) MPH. They
> also carry "Pre-History of Indonesia" by the same authors for the same
> price.
>
> It is most interesting to note that the Malaysian Museum officials gallantly
> invented brand new unheard-of terms such as "Proto-Malay" and
> "Deutero-Malay", to replace the accepted Scientific Term, Australo-
> Melanesians (African descent) and Austronesians (Chinese Descent, or
> Mongoloid to be precise) in keeping in line with creating this new "Malay"
> term..
> They also created the new term called the Melayu-Polynesian. (Which Melayu
> exists in the Polynesian Islands?)
> Maybe they were just trying to be "Patriotic" and "Nationalistic"… who
> knows…?
> After all, we also invented the term, "Malaysian Time". While the rest of
> the world calls it "Tardy" and "Late". It's quite an embarrassment
> actually….
> Singaporeans crossing the border are asked to set their watches back by
> about a 100yrs, to adjust to "Malaysian Time"…
>
> +13
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 12:13:58
> Next question.
> If the Baba's are part Malay, why have they been marginalized by NOT BEING
> BUMIPUTERA?
> Which part of "Malay" are they not? Whatever the answer, why then are the
> Portugese of Malacca BUMIPUTERA?
> Did they not come 100yrs AFTER the arrival of the first Baba's?
> Parameswara founded Malacca in 1411. The Portugese came in 1511, and the
> Dutch in the 1600's.
> Strangely, the Baba's were in fact once classified a Bumiputera, but some
> Prime Minister decreed that they were to be strangely "declassified" in the
> 1960's.
> WHY? How can a "native son of the soil" degenerate into an "un-son"? The new
> classification is "pendatang" meaning a migrant to describe the Baba's and
> Nyonyas.
> Wait a minute, isn't EVERYONE on the Peninsular a migrant to begin with?
> How can the government discriminate? Does the Malaysian Government have
> amnesia?
>
> The Sultan of Kelantan had similar roots to the Pattani Kingdom making him
> of Thai origin.
> And what is this "coffee table book" by the Sultan of Perlis claiming to be
> the direct descendant of the prophet Muhammed? Somehow we see Prof Khoo Khay
> Khim's signature name on the book.
> I'll pay good money to own a copy of it myself. Anyone has a spare?
>
> In pursuing this thread, and having looked at the history of Prophet
> Muhammed (BTW, real name Ahmad) we couldn't figure out which descendant line
> the Sultan of Perlis was.
> Perhaps it was by the name Syed, which transcended.
> Then we tried to locate which downline did the Sultan descend from of the 13
> Official Wives of Prophet Muhammad named in the Holy Koran?
> Or was the Sultan of Perlis a descendant from the other 23 non-wives? Of the
> 13 Official Wives were (at least known) 3 Israeli women.
> Then you should come to this instant revelation, isn't Prophet Muhammad an
> Israeli himself? Yes, the answer is clear. All descendants of Moses are
> Israeli.
> In fact, the Holy Koran teaches that Moses was the First Muslim. Thus
> confirming all the descendants of Moses to be Israeli, including Jesus and
> Prophet Muhammad.
> But since this is not a Religious or a Theological discussion, let's move on
> to a more anthropological approach.
>
> So, how many of you have met with the Orang Asli's (Malaysian Natives)? The
> more northern you go, the more African they look.
> Why are they called Negrito's? It is a Spanish word, from which directly
> transalates "mini Negros". The more southern you go, the more "Indonesian"
> they look.
> And the ones who live at Cameron Highlands kinda look 50-50. You can see the
> Batek at Taman Negara, who really look like Eddie Murphy to a certain
> degree. Or the Negritos who live at the Thai border near Temenggor Lake
> (north Perak).
> The Mah Meri in Carrie Island look almost like the Jakuns in Endau Rompin.
> Half African, half Indonesian.
>
> Strangely the natives in Borneo all look rather Chinese in terms of features
> and facial characteristics especially the Kelabits in Bario.
> By definition, (this is super eye-opening) there was a Hindu-Malay Empire in
> Kedah.
> Yes, I said right… The Malays were Hindu (just like the gentle Balinese of
> today). It was known by its' old name, Langkasuka. Today known as Lembah
> Bujang.
> This Hindu-Malay Empire was 2,000yrs old. Pre-dating Borrobudor AND Angkor
> Watt. Which came about around 500-600yrs later.
> Lembah Bujang was THE mighty trading Empire, and its biggest influence was
> by the Indians who were here to help start it.
> By definition, this should make the Indians BUMIPUTERAS too since they were
> here 2,000yrs ago!
> Why are they marginalized?
>
> +18
>
> ...
> written by wali10, January 17, 2012 12:07:23
> Salam Pete
> I beg to differ. Firstly 'Hang' was never in their names. Hang was a title
> conferred by the palaces/rulers of those times, just like the present day
> Datuks, Tan Sri's.. or Darjah Kerabat's or some titles like Admiral,
> General, Marshall which would then be higher in rank than just Panglima. Of
> course there was no differentiation then - so long as one was VVVIP, then
> the title 'Hang' would be conferred. Thus Tuah, Jebat, Lekir, Kasturi
> (female) and Lekiu were malay names, and Li Po the Chinese princess was
> conferred 'Hang' due either to marriage or 'international political
> expediency'. Even the present day Melaka conferred datukship to that
> Bollywood Shah Rukh Khan... hehe!!
>
> Then the matter of silat. Silat -many types- originated in the malay
> archipelago and was mastered by the five "Hangs'.There happened one silat
> guru from Melaka Empire (Sumatra?) was sent or taken (?) to China to teach
> the ocean-going warriors the art of silat. During that era, 'bertapa' is
> normal, and so did this guru. His name was Budi Dharma, and the chinese
> spelt/pronounced it as Futi-Taluma, taught and bertapa (being pious) there.
> And thus the spread of Shaolin temple. Much later this martial art was taken
> to Japan, and the japanese pronounced this guru by the name of Bodi Darumas.
>
> Look it up, if u hv the time.
>
> -18
>
> ...
> written by Kampong, January 17, 2012 11:49:36
> I have always suspected the so-called social contract is also made up. No
> one has been able to produce a single written document yet, and the crooks
> just claim what they want.
>
> +20
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 11:43:50
> The writer failed to identify (probably didn't know), that the "Malay"
> definition also includes, the Champa, Dong Song, HoabinHian, The Taiwanese
> Alisan and the Philippino Aetas.
> He also did not identify that the "Orang Asli" are (for lack of a better
> term) ex-Africans.
> If you try to call any one of our East Malaysian brothers an "Orang Asli",
> they WILL BEAT YOU UP!
> I had to repeat this because almost all West Malaysians make the same
> mistake when we cross the South China Sea.
> Worse, somehow, they feel even more insulted when you call them "Malay".
> Somehow, "kurang ajar" is uttered below their breath as if "Malay" was a
> really bad word for them. I'm still trying to figure this one out.
>
> Watch "Malays in Africa"; a Museum Negara produced DVD. Also, the "Champa
> Malays" by the same.
> With this classification, they MUST also include the Phillipinos, the Papua
> New Guineans, the Australian Aboroginies, as well as the Polynesian
> Aboroginies.
> These are of the Australo Melanesians who migrated out of Africa 60,000yrs
> ago. Getting interesting? Read on...
>
> "Malay" should also include the Taiwanese singer "Ah Mei" who is Alisan as
> her tribe are the anscestors of the "Malays".
> And finally, you will need to define the Southern Chinese (Southern
> Province) as Malay also, since they are from the same stock 6,000yrs ago.
> Try calling the Bugis a "Malay". Interestingly, the Bugis, who predominantly
> live on Sulawesi are not even Indonesians. Neither do they fall into the
> same group as the migrating Southern Chinese of 6,000yrs
> ago nor the Australo Melanesian group from Africa.
>
> Ready for this?
>
> The Bugis are the cross-breed between the Mongolian Chinese and the
> marauding Arab Pirates.
> Interestingly, the Bugis, (just like their Arabic ancestors) were career
> Pirates in the Johor-Riau Island areas.
> Now the nephew of Daeng Kemboja was appointed as the First Sultan of
> Selangor. That makes the entire Selangor Sultanate part Arab, part Chinese!
> Try talking to the Bugis Museum curator near Kukup in Johor. Kukup is
> located near the most south-western tip of Johor. (Due south of Pontian
> Kechil) He is more than willing to expound on the Bugis heritage.
> Buy him lunch and he can talk for days on end.
>
> Let's not even get into the Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Kasturi, Hang Lekiu,
> and Hang Lekir, who shared the same family last name as the other super
> famous "Hang" family member... Hang Li Poh.
> And who was she? Legend tells us that she is the Princess of a Ming Dynasty
> Emperor who was sent to marry the Sultan of Malacca. Won't that make the
> entire Malacca Sultanate downline "Baba"?
> Since the older son of the collapsed Malaccan Sultanate got killed in Johor,
> (the current Sultanate is the downline of the then, Bendahara) the only
> other son became the Sultan of Perak.
> Do we see any Chinese-ness in Raja Azlan? Is he the descendant of Hang Li
> Poh?
> But wait a minute....
>
> That's what legend says. Let's look at the proof. The solid evidence.
>
> There is a well next to the Zheng He Temple in Malacca which is supposed to
> be the well built by the Sultan of Malacca for Hang Li Poh.
> According to legend, anyone who drinks of it shall re-visit Malacca before
> they die. Hmmm smells like a romantic fairy tale already.
> But let's look at who Hang Li Poh actually is. Which Ming Emperor was she a
> daughter to?
> So I got into researching the entire list of Ming Emperors. Guess what? Not
> a single Ming Emperor's last name begins with Hang.
> In fact, all their last names begin with Tzu (pronounced Choo). So who is
> Hang Li Poh? An Extra Concubine? A Spare Handmaiden? Who knows?
> But one thing for certain, is that she was no daughter of any of the Ming
> Emperors.
> Gone is the romantic notion of the Sultan of Malacca marrying an exotic
> Chinese Princess. Sorry guys, the Sultan married an unidentified Chinese
> commoner.
>
> +16
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 11:39:45
> An Oldie, but a Goodie….
> Sometimes we need to remind ourselves….
>
> The Origins of the Malays
> Prepared By Michael Chick
>
> It's been interesting to read such free-flowing comments on the subject of
> the Origins of the Malays.
> While we are on the subject, how many of you have read the book entitled
> "Contesting Malayness – Malay Identity Across Boundaries" Edited by Timothy
> P. Barnard published by Singapore University Press? Written by a Professor
> of National University of Singapore.
> It reflects the Anthropologists views that there is no such race as the
> "Malays" to begin with.
> If we follow the original migration of the Southern Chinese of 6,000yrs ago,
> they moved into Taiwan, (now the Alisan), then into the Phillipines (now the
> Aeta) and moved into Borneo (4,500yrs ago) (Dayak).
> They also split into Sulawesi and progressed into Jawa, and Sumatera. The
> final migration was to the Malayan Peninsular 3,000yrs ago. A sub-group from
> Borneo also moved to Champa in Vietnam at 4,500yrs ago.
>
> Interestingly, the Champa deviant group moved back to present day Kelantan.
> There are also traces of the Dong Song and HoaBinh migration from Vietnam
> and Cambodia.
> To confuse the issue, there was also the Southern Thai migration, from what
> we know as Pattani today. (see also "Early Kingdoms of the Indonesian
> Archipelago and the Malay Peninsular")
> Of course, we also have the Minangkabau's which come from the descendants of
> Alexander the Great and a West Indian Princess. (Sejarah Melayu page 1-3)
>
> So the million Dollar Question... Is there really a race called the
> "Malays"?
> All anthropologists DO NOT SEEM TO THINK SO. (strangely, this includes all
> Malay Malaysian Anthropologists who are of the same opinion.)
>
> Neither do the "Malays" who live on the West Coast of Johor. They'd rather
> be called Javanese.
> What about the west coast Kedah inhabitants who prefer to be known as
> "Achenese"? or the Ibans who simply want to be known as IBANS.
> Try calling a Kelabit a "Malay" and see what response you get... you'll be
> so glad that their Head-Hunting days are over.
>
> In an article in the Star, dated: Dec 3rd 2006 available for on-line viewing
> at:http://thestar.com.my/news/sto...&sec=focus
> An excerp is reproduced here below:
>
> "The Malays – taken as an aggregation of people of different ethnic
> backgrounds but who speak the same language or family of languages and share
> common cultural and traditional ties – are essentially a new race, compared
> to the Chinese, Indians and the Arabs with their long histories of quests
> and conquests.
> The Malay nation, therefore, covers people of various ethnic stock,
> including Javanese, Bugis, Bawean, Achehnese, Thai, Orang Asli, the
> indigenous people of Sabah and Sarawak and descendants of Indian Muslims who
> had married local women.
> Beneath these variations, however, there is a common steely core that is
> bent on changing the Malay persona from its perceived lethargic character to
> one that is brave, bold and ready to take on the world. "
>
> The definition of "Malay" is therefore simply a collection of people's who
> speak a similar type language. With what is meant by a similar type language
> does not mean that the words are similar. (A native Kelantanese native
> speaker has no clue whatsoever what his Iban native brother is talking
> about; if both speak their own dialect)
> Linguists however, call this the "Lego-Type" language, where words are added
> on to the root word to make meaning and give tenses and such.
> Somehow, the Indonesians disagree with this "Malay" classification and
> insist instead on being called "Indonesians" even though the majority of
> "Malays" have their roots in parts of Indonesia.
> They refuse to be called "Malay"…. Anyhow you may define it.
>
> +4
>
> ...
> written by panca, January 17, 2012 11:35:24
> You want to god worship, rock worship or idol worship or even elvis worship
> it is your choice and freedom, nobody stops you from believing and nobody
> can call you stupid or intelligent, it is your belief Religions are not
> dissimilar with cult of followers whether they do good or bad, some good
> 'followers' but bad to others because others do not believe the way believe
> then is heaven for them and hell for others, the list goes on! Some even say
> their god is the only true god and others are fake and there are even others
> say their prophets are god because they are god therefore they left nothing
> behind and that is how they would reason so we have agree on that because
> religion is about belief and it is always being in the belief system that is
> called faith and that is what they called truth, then gospel truth.
>
> No, it is not about revealing something about truth in religion per se
> because religion does need to be proven in that manner, it is about having
> faith and that is about it. But if we want to be able to talk about truth in
> religion in the open then it takes a broader scope of mind and an unclosed
> mind, not just an open mind but courage to penetrate levels upon levels
> seeking knowledge and in that it is only through our wisdom we can reach out
> to find the truth and if humans cannot have these mind of theirs to be
> unclosed then we won't be able look beyond our own intelligence. It is okay
> to believe what one wants to believe in religions and it is ok to keep on
> believing but wisdom that human has that equipped us in this mind should be
> a great source for seeking knowledge of truth and developing one's own
> higher levels of consciousness then merely believing.
>
> Stay awake!
>
> +3
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 11:34:54
> Malaysia Boleh...
> I find this strange.
>
> I also find, that it is strange that the "Chitti's" (Indian+Malay) of
> Malacca are categorized as Bumiputera, while their Baba brothers are not.
> Why? Both existed during the Parameswara days.
> Which part of the "Malay" side of the Baba's is not good enough for
> Bumiputera classification? Re-instate them. They used to be Bumiputera pre
> 1960's anyway.
>
> Instead of "Malay", I believe that "Maphilindo" (circa 1963) would have been
> the closest in accurately trying to describe the Malays. However, going by
> that definition, it should most accurately be
> "MaphilindoThaiChinDiaVietWanGreekCamfrica".
> And it is because of this; even our University Malaya Anthropology
> professors cannot look at you in the eye and truthfully say that the word
> "Malay" technically and accurately defines a race.
> This is most unfortunate.
>
> So, in a nutshell, the "Malays" (anthropologists will disagree with this
> "race" definition) are TRULY ASIA !!! For once the Tourism Ministry got it
> right…. We should stop calling this country "Tanah Melayu" instead call it,
> "Tanah Truly Asia"
> You must understand now, why I was "tickled pink" when I found out that the
> Visit Malaysia slogan for 2007 was "Truly Asia". They are so correct...
> (even though they missed out Greece, and Africa)
>
> BTW, the name UMNO should be changed to UTANO the new official acronym for
> "United Truly Asia National Organization" .
> After all, they started out as a Bugis club in Johor anyway….
>
> I told you all that I hate race classifications…. This is so depressing.
> Even more depressing is that the "malays" are not even a race; not since day
> one.
>
> "Truly Asia Boleh"
>
> +17
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 11:27:01
> The Truth Revealed (with evidence)!
>
> In June 1998, the government of Malaysia had hired a team of experts from
> all over the world to be gathered here in Malaysia for a research project to
> compliment the history studies that we undertook in our secondary school.
>
> The objective of the research is simply:
>
> 1. To find proof and evidence that show the Malays were the origins of
> Malaysia and they were the first race and religion that landed their feet in
> Malaysia .
>
> 2. To further strengthen their claims, first they need to find the graveyard
> of the Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat,Hang Lekiu and etc.. to show the existence of
> their pioneers.
>
> 3. The Batu bersurat in Terengganu, reveals that the islamic religionhas
> landed in Malaysia for more than a hundred years ago which furtherstrengthen
> their claims!
>
> BEWARE & OPEN YOUR EYES!!!
> Go and ask your brother, sister, niece, nephew etc.
> Since the year 1999 (if i'm not mistaken) or year 2000, do they study about
> HANG TUAH anymore ???
>
> Why is that popular subject GONE ??? Missing in action ??? or evidence
> reveals something else that caused the government to stop the syllabus and
> HIDE the TRUTH ???
>
> Here are the Evidences of the findings by the team of scientists,
> archaeologist, historian
> and other technical staff from the United States , United Kingdom , Germany
> , Canada , Yemen & Russia .
>
> The evidence are:
>
> 1) They finally found the graveyard of Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat etc..., their
> skeleton had been analized and samples of DNA taken with the results show:
> Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Lekiu and mates were NOT MALAY!!!
> They were CHINESE (islamic) from China !!! Why were they here in Malacca???
>
> If go back in history, you would know that they were on a mission to protect
> the UNGRATEFUL MALAY Sultanate from the frequent attacks by the Kingdom of
> SIAM ( Thailand ) !!! So Hang Tuah was not Malay hero!!
>
> They were the protectors of the useless and ungrateful Parameswara (who was
> from INDONESIA ) landed in Malacca and claimed that the land belonged to
> him!!!
>
> The Hang Tuah bunch of people were all from China , they were being assigned
> to Malacca Sultanate because Parameswara requested the Ming Dynasty Emporer
> for protection!!!
>
> Hence, the rich historical heritage of the Babas & Nyonya being closely
> linked to the Seven Voyages to the Western Ocean by Admiral Zheng He who
> incidentally was a Chinese Muslim himself!
>
> That's why the Hang Tuah series of history is MISSING from the Malaysian
> SEJARAH today! !!
>
> Note : Remember Princess Hang Li Poh ? - All surname 'HANG'
>
> Second Evidence:
> The researchers hired by the government found the oldest tomb stones
> (graveyard) in Kelantan in year 2000. Surprisingly the tomb stones were at
> least 900 years old !!!
> Older than the so-called batu bersurat. And the best thing was that they all
> belonged to the CHINESE !!!
>
> Being landed first in Malacca doesn't mean Malay is the first in Malaysia
> because during that time, the road was too long or undeveloped for them to
> reach or see the other side of the coast where the Chinese had landed much
> earlier.
>
> If you want the black and white hard evidence of what the truth of the
> Research reveals,
> please write to The Federal Association of Archaeology & Research of
> Michigan, USA .
>
> This is a good reason to remind the UMNO Bumiputras NOT to ask the Chinese
> or Indians to go back to their Motherlands because the evidence had shown
> that Malays were NOT the original people of Malaysia !
>
> The Truth Revealed (with evidence) and anthropologists have yet to ascertain
> if there was indeed a Malay race!
>
> +31
>
> ...
> written by earthman, January 17, 2012 10:52:56
> Just because there is no written evidence , doesn't meant it had not
> happened. Many events happened and it was not recorded and only those who
> heard it knows it. And faith is the substance we hope for without hurting
> others.
> People can believe whatever they want and that is that , nothing more . They
> can't force others to believe or follow what they believed and worshiped.
> That is why freedom to believe and worship should be the rights of all
> human. One should be responsible for one's behavior other than causing hurt
> to others or disturbing the peace.
> Hang Tuah should not replaced ABU . For ABU is now and real while Hang Tuah
> is just a story. Professor , what is your view on ABU? Is he real or a
> story?
Malays are pendatangs from the Philippines Mindanao .
Dark Skin Filipino in the mountains were the original
Malays .
DARK SKIN FILIPINO migrated through Indonesia to get to
Malayu penisular .
But Dark Skin Filipino , Dark Skin Khmers , Dark Skin
Indonesians were all original natives of SE ASIA,
all CHINESE in SE ASIA , in ASEAN , were foreigners in ASEAN
and
are still foreigners in SE ASIA , because all original
natives of SE ASIA were all DARK SKIN people .
Vietnamese were originally from the Yue territories ,
from HangZhou in China ,.
Jan 17, 2:25 pm, "abu bakar" <abu ba...@tmnet.com.my> wrote:
> Today, Hang Li Po, Hang Tuah, etc., are debunked. Tomorrow, it could be
> others whom are said to have also existed will be debunked. And, for
> thousands of years, millions of people have been killed for not believing in
> events that never happened and in people who never existed.
>
> NO HOLDS BARRED
>
> Raja Petra Kamarudin
>
> History books to stick to facts
>
> ‘Hang Li Po, Hang Tuah did not exist’
>
> I think it was probably ten years or so ago that I wrote about the
> probability of Hang Tuah and his cohorts being a mere myth. The other
> possibility is that if they did exist, then they were all Chinese and not
> Malays -- bodyguards of the Chinese princess, Hang Li Po.
>
> Of course, the Malay ‘nationalists’ were outraged at my suggestion. Even
> renowned historians did not utter such a possibility. How can I, with no PhD
> to my name, come to that conclusion?
>
> I suppose it is all about whether you have a PhD to your name. If you do not
> then what you say matters not and is of no significance. In fact, you are
> not qualified to make comments if you are not a certified ‘authority’.
>
> My reasoning (yes, I apply reasoning, as what we were taught to do in the
> Philosophy of Religion course that I recently took) is that if Hang Li Po
> was Chinese then the rest of the Hang tribe must have been Chinese as well.
> If Hang Li Po was Chinese, how can Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Kasturi, Hang
> Lekir and Hang Lekiu all be Malays?
>
> The next point is on the special Silat (martial arts) that the five ‘Malay’
> warriors were said to have practiced. It was a Silat that no one had ever
> seen before and is said to be more powerful than the traditional Silat that
> the Malays practiced.
>
> My argument was that it must have been Chinese Kungfu and not Silat. That
> was why the Malays had never seen it before. And the fact that Hang Tuah and
> gang beat the shit out of the Malays was probably because it was a very
> unique form of Kungfu, more superior to Silat.
>
> I mean, Silat is full of dancing before the exponent moves in for the kill.
> In Kungfu, you just step in and beat the daylights out of the dancer before
> he knows what hit him.
>
> The next point is about the story regarding Hang Tuah going over to
> Indonesia as an envoy of the Sultan of Melaka. The story goes that when he
> was there they tried to get him drunk so that they can beat him up. However,
> never mind how much liquor they gave him, he held his liquor well and did
> not fall down drunk. When they made their move on him, Hang Tuah beat the
> shit out of his attackers, sober as hell.
>
> Now, if Hang Tuah drank liquor and could hold his liquor well, this means he
> could not have been Malay. First of all, he drank. Secondly, he must have
> been a regular drinker to be able to drink so much and still stay sober
> enough to beat off his attackers.
>
> Anyway, I was basing my reasoning on the stories that we were told. Now it
> appears that all these stories were myths after all. Yet, Malaysian
> historians and history being taught in Malaysian schools told us that all
> these stories were true and that all these people existed even though there
> is no tangible evidence to support the theory of their existence.
>
> This is exactly what I have been saying about religion. Hang Tuah and
> whatnot are supposed to have existed a mere few hundred years ago when they
> already had recorded history. Yet, today, that has been put to question.
> What about stories of people and events that were supposed to have happened
> thousands of years ago at a time when there was no recorded history and when
> stories were passed down through the generations by word of mouth? Would
> there not be even more reason to question these so-called ‘facts’?
>
> When I talk about religious history most would respond with dogma. They will
> quote verses from the Bible or the Quran to counter my arguments. What these
> people can’t seem to understand is that they are arguing theology. And there
> is a big difference between theology, history, philosophy, sociology,
> anthropology, etc.
>
> Theology is based on dogma, not on history or whatever. And the belief in
> dogma is based on faith, not evidence. If you demand evidence to support
> dogma, then the dogma would be demolished. You must accept dogma based on
> the lack of evidence. Hence it is called faith, the belief in the unseen or
> the unproven.
>
> It will be impossible to engage when we are not on the same page. I talk
> about one thing and you talk about another. And you apply reasoning in
> circles to argue your case. I would be even more blunt in saying that you
> can’t use a lie to support a lie.
>
> For example, you tell someone that Raja Petra Kamarudin says he is a Prophet
> of God. Someone then asks you: how do you know this? You reply: it is
> written in this book. This person then asks you: who wrote this book? You
> reply: Raja Petra Kamarudin wrote this book.
>
> This would be called reasoning in circles.
>
> Or, you reply: it is written in this book. This person then asks you: who
> wrote this book? You reply: it was written by someone 200 years after Raja
> Petra Kamarudin died. You ask: where did this person get the information
> since it was written 200 years after Raja Petra Kamarudin died? You reply:
> the information was passed down by word of mouth over almost ten
> generations.
>
> If you want to believe that Hang Tuah, or whoever it may be, did exist and
> that this is what they are alleged to have said and done, carry on. No one
> is stopping you from believing what you want to believe even if you want to
> believe in the tooth fairy. Just do not force others to also believe the
> same thing and then arrest them and send them to jail on charges of heresy
> if they do not also believe what you believe.
>
> That is the issue here.
>
> Today, Hang Li Po, Hang Tuah, etc., are debunked. Tomorrow, it could be
> others whom are said to have also existed will be debunked. And, for
> thousands of years, millions of people have been killed for not believing in
> events that never happened and in people who never existed.
>
> Set as favorite Bookmark Email this
> Comments (16)
> ...
> written by flyer168, January 17, 2012 14:59:17
> Hello,
>
> How about this...
>
> Hang Tuah Animation On The Cards
>
> KUALA LUMPUR, July 26 -- The Information Communication and Culture Ministry
> will adapt the Hikayat Hang Tuah (The Epic of Hang Tuah) into an animation
> series, including possibly a full-length animation film to promote the
> legendary Malay warrior's saga at the international arena.
>
> Minister Datuk Seri Dr Rais Yatim said for a start, the ministry would hold
> a discussion with animation experts and identify the team for the project.
>
> "If the Malays especially do not have pride in Hang Tuah's legend, then it
> would be a waste because the English literature has Camelot and the Chinese
> literature has over 222 legends," he told reporters after declaring open the
> "Hang Tuah: The Legendary Malay Warrior" exhibition at the National Library
> here.
>
> Rais said there were plenty of compelling stories to tell from the era of
> the Melaka Sultanate especially concerning the ties with China, which he
> said, would provide a huge cast of characters that would incluide Admiral
> Cheng Ho, Princess Hang Li Po and Hang Tuah and his warrior peers.
>
> "All these are ingredients for an engaging animation series," he said,
> adding that film animation producers should be allowed the opportunities to
> produce the series and to market them overseas.
>
> He said the animation series would also incorporate positive values from the
> epic which could be a source of inspiration for today's society.
>
> "It is important for the Epic of Hang Tuah to be made a national epic
> because it portrays positive values as well as the 1Malaysia values such as
> loyalty, trustworthiness and high degree of idealism," he said.
>
> The exhibition, which takes place until Aug 31, is in conjunction with KL
> Festival 2010 and showcases illustrations, artefacts and books on Hang
> Tuah. - Bernama
>
> Hang Tuah Animation On The Cards -http://www.dailymail.com.my/in...-the-cards
>
> You be the judge.
>
> Shalom.
>
> +0
>
> ...
> written by lakian, January 17, 2012 13:36:55
> rpk,so the well in malacca name after han tuah is storey too?i was taught by
> my teacher that the water from this well would not over flow within few cm
> above the top-edge of a glass.do you believe jackie chan the hongkong film
> star was swiming from china to hongkong and also there are so many others
> when they were few years old.the mongol great empiror gangis khan conquered
> all the way from mongol to europe on the horse back!this was happened
> thousands years ago,when you are talking about han,its only a hundred or two
> years ago.
> suppose the history said han was malay,so all became true!if i say malays do
> not actually exist at all,they are only a creature of a mixed from so many
> ethnicity group.for example,indian n bugis,arab n java or madura or dayak n
> chinese,burmese,vietnamese.........etc etc.........................in this
> land called malayu.malay is a place not a race.why called malay?may be we
> have to ask the phd to search in china or .......!
>
> +3
>
> ...
> written by Admiral Tojo, January 17, 2012 12:55:19
> Bullshit finally surfaces. If you go to Jonker Street in Melacca, there is
> the grave of so called Hang Kasturi right next to a Chinese Temple. The
> grave is a Chinese Grave, by the way it looks and its locality right next to
> the temple.Ibrahim Ali, what is your comment if you have any? Too
> intellectual for you?
>
> Shalom
>
> +13
>
> ...
> written by singhkris, January 17, 2012 12:43:02
> The Malays believe in myths. Knowing this Mamathir created another myth and
> fed them. He said "I am a Malay and a defender of Malays". The Malays
> believed them and he plundered the country for many many years!
>
> +12
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 12:29:22
> "Mysterious Race Changing Trick"- created by The Malaysian Government.
>
> Still, Malaysians are still only second to the Jews (who by the way, are the
> only other people in the world who are defined by a religion)
> So perhaps David Copperfield has yet to learn a few tricks on the mass
> deception skills of the Malaysian Government?
>
> +5
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 12:24:28
> In a nutshell, the British Colonial Masters, who, for lack of a better
> description, needed a "blanket" category for ease of classification, used
> the term "Malay".
>
> The only other logical explanation, which I have heard, was that "Malaya"
> came as a derivative of "Himalaya", where at Langkasuka, or Lembah Bujang
> today was where the Indians were describing the
> locals as "Malai" which means "Hill People" in Tamil.
> This made perfect sense as the focal point at that time was at Gunung Jerai,
> and the entire peninsular had a "Mountain Range" "Banjaran Titiwangsa", as
> we call it.
> The Mandarin and Cantonese accurately maintain the accurate pronunciation of
> "Malai Ren" and "Malai Yun" respectively till this very day. Where "ren" and
> "yun" both mean "peoples".
>
> Interestingly, "Kadar" and "Kidara", Hindi and Sanskrit words accurately
> describe "Kedah" of today. They both mean "fertile Land for Rice
> cultivation.
> Again, a name given by the Indians 2,000yrs ago during the "Golden Hindu
> Era" for a duration of 1,500yrs.
>
> It was during this "Golden Hindu Era" that the new term which the Hindu
> Malay leaders also adopted the titles, "Sultan" and "Raja".
> The Malay Royalty were Hindu at that time, as all of Southeast Asia was
> under strong Indian influence, including Borrobudor, and Angkor Watt. Bali
> today still practices devout Hindu Beliefs.
> The snake amulet worn by the Sultans of today, The Royal Dias, and even the
> "Pelamin" for weddings are tell-tale signs of these strong Indian
> influences.
> So, it was NOT Parameswara who was the first Sultan in Malaya. Sultanage
> existed approximately 1,500yrs in Kedah before he set foot on the Peninsular
> during the "Golden Hindu Era" of Malaysia.
> And they were all Hindu.
>
> "PreHistory of Malaysia" also talks about the "Lost Kingdom" of the "Chi-Tu"
> where the local Malay Kingdom were Buddhists. The rest of the "Malays" were
> Animistic Pagans.
> But you may say, "Sejarah Melayu" calls it "Melayu"? Yes, it does. Read it
> again; is it trying to describe the 200-odd population hamlet near Palembang
> by the name "Melayu"?(Google Earth will show this village).
>
> By that same definition, then, the Achehnese should be considered a "race".
> So should the Bugis and the Bataks, to be fair. Orang Acheh, Orang Bugis,
> Orang Laut, Orang Melayu now mean the same… descriptions
> of ethnic tribes, at best.
> So some apparently Patriotic person decided to upgrade the Malays from Orang
> Melayu (Malay People) to Bangsa Melayu (Malay Race) Good job in helping
> perpetuate the confusion.
> And since the "Malays" of today are not all descendants of the "Melayu"
> kampung in Jambi (if I remember correctly), the term Melayu has been wrongly
> termed. From Day One.
> Maybe this is why the Johoreans still insist on calling themselves either
> Bugis, or Javanese til today (except when it comes to receiving Government
> Handouts).
> So do the Achehnese on the West coast of Kedah & Perlis and the Kelantanese
> insist that they came from Champa, Vietnam.
>
> Moreover, the fact that the first 3 pages of "Sejarah Melayu" claim that
> "Melayu" comes from Alexander the Great and the West Indian Princess doesn't
> help.
> More importantly, it was written in 1623. By then, the Indians had been
> calling the locals "Malai" for 1,500 yrs already. So the name stuck….
>
> And with the Sejarah Melayu (The Malay Annals in page 1-3) naming the
> grandson of Iskandar Zulkarnain, and the West Indian Princess forming the
> Minangkabau.
> Whenever a Malay is asked about it, he usually says it is "Karut"
> (bullshit), but all Malayan based historians insist on using Sejarah Melayu
> as THE main reference book for which "Malay" history is based upon.
> The only other books are "Misa Melayu", "Hikayat Merong Mahawangsa",
> "Hikayat Pasai", "Hikayat Raja-Raja Siak" and "Hikayat Hang Tuah" among
> others; which sometimes brings up long and "heated" discussions.
>
> Interesting to note is one of the great "Malay" writers is called Munsyi
> Abdullah; who penned "Hikayat Abdullah" He was an Indian Muslim. Let's
> re-read that little bit. He was an Indian Muslim.
> How can an Indian change his race to be a Malay? He can change his shirt,
> his car, his religion and even his underwear, but how can anyone change his
> race?
> This must be The New Trick of the Century, which even David Copperfield will
> pay lots of money to watch (and perhaps learn).
>
> +19
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 12:20:50
> The Malaysian Government now has a serious case of Alzheimer's. Why?
> Simply because, they would accord the next Indonesian who tomorrow swims
> across the Straits of Malacca and bestow upon him with the apparently
> "prestigious title" of the Bumiputra status alongside others who imply have
> inhabited this land for hundreds of centuries. (prestigious, at least
> perceived by Malays)
> They also have a strange saying called "Ketuanan Melayu" which literally
> transalates into "The Lordship of Malays" The Malays still cannot identify
> till this day "who" or "what" the Malays have "Lordship" over.
> And they celebrate it gallantly and triumphantly by waving the Keris (wavy
> knife which has Hindu origins in Borrobudor. Ganesan is seen brandishing the
> Keris in a bass-relief sculpture.) during public meetings over National TV
> much like a Pagan Wicca Ceremony on Steroids.
> Let's all wait for that official press release to see who the "Malays" have
> Lordship over, shall we?
>
> Of the 3 books listed, "Contesting Malayness" (about S$32 for soft cover) is
> "banned" in Malaysia; you will need to "smuggle" it into Malaysia; for very
> obvious reasons.... or read it in Singapore if you don't feel like breaking
> the law.
> Incidentally, the Professor (Author) was invited to speak on this very
> subject circa 2 yrs ago, in KL, invited by the MBRAS. You can imagine the
> "chaos" this seminar created... Fortunately the FRU was not called in.
>
> The other, "Kingdoms of the Indonesian Archipelago, and the Malay
> Peninsular" (about RM84) are openly sold at all leading bookshops;
> Kinokuniya, MPH, Borders, Popular, Times, etc.
> You should be able to find a fair bit of what I've been quoting in this book
> too, but mind you, it is extremely heavy reading material, and you will find
> yourself struggling through the initial 200+ pages. It is extremely
> technical in nature.
> Maybe that's why it hasn't been banned (yet)…coz our authorities couldn't
> make head or tail of it? (FYI, if I weren't doing research for my film, I
> wouldn't have read it in its entirety)
>
> The "Sejarah Melayu" (about RM 50) however, is freely available at the
> University Malaya bookshop. I have both the English and Royal Malay version
> published by MBRAS.
> Alternatively, you could try reading the Jawi (Arabic Script) version if you
> are truly a sucker for unimaginable pain...... (may feel like circumcision)
>
> There are actually many sources for these Origins of Malays findings. Any
> older Philippino Museum Journal also carries these migration stories.
> This migration is also on display at the Philippines National Museum in
> Luzon. However, they end with the Aeta, and only briefly mention that the
> migration continued to Indonesia and Malaysia, but fully acknowledge that
> all Philippinos came from Taiwan. And before Taiwan, China.
> There is another book (part of a series) called the "Archipelago Series"
> endorsed by Tun Mahatir and Marina Mohammad, which states the very same
> thing right at the introduction on page one. "… that the Malays migrated out
> of Southern China some 6,000yrs ago…". I believe it is called the
> "Pre-History of Malaysia" Hard Cover, about RM99 found in (mostly) MPH. They
> also carry "Pre-History of Indonesia" by the same authors for the same
> price.
>
> It is most interesting to note that the Malaysian Museum officials gallantly
> invented brand new unheard-of terms such as "Proto-Malay" and
> "Deutero-Malay", to replace the accepted Scientific Term, Australo-
> Melanesians (African descent) and Austronesians (Chinese Descent, or
> Mongoloid to be precise) in keeping in line with creating this new "Malay"
> term..
> They also created the new term called the Melayu-Polynesian. (Which Melayu
> exists in the Polynesian Islands?)
> Maybe they were just trying to be "Patriotic" and "Nationalistic"… who
> knows…?
> After all, we also invented the term, "Malaysian Time". While the rest of
> the world calls it "Tardy" and "Late". It's quite an embarrassment
> actually….
> Singaporeans crossing the border are asked to set their watches back by
> about a 100yrs, to adjust to "Malaysian Time"…
>
> +13
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 12:13:58
> Next question.
> If the Baba's are part Malay, why have they been marginalized by NOT BEING
> BUMIPUTERA?
> Which part of "Malay" are they not? Whatever the answer, why then are the
> Portugese of Malacca BUMIPUTERA?
> Did they not come 100yrs AFTER the arrival of the first Baba's?
> Parameswara founded Malacca in 1411. The Portugese came in 1511, and the
> Dutch in the 1600's.
> Strangely, the Baba's were in fact once classified a Bumiputera, but some
> Prime Minister decreed that they were to be strangely "declassified" in the
> 1960's.
> WHY? How can a "native son of the soil" degenerate into an "un-son"? The new
> classification is "pendatang" meaning a migrant to describe the Baba's and
> Nyonyas.
> Wait a minute, isn't EVERYONE on the Peninsular a migrant to begin with?
> How can the government discriminate? Does the Malaysian Government have
> amnesia?
>
> The Sultan of Kelantan had similar roots to the Pattani Kingdom making him
> of Thai origin.
> And what is this "coffee table book" by the Sultan of Perlis claiming to be
> the direct descendant of the prophet Muhammed? Somehow we see Prof Khoo Khay
> Khim's signature name on the book.
> I'll pay good money to own a copy of it myself. Anyone has a spare?
>
> In pursuing this thread, and having looked at the history of Prophet
> Muhammed (BTW, real name Ahmad) we couldn't figure out which descendant line
> the Sultan of Perlis was.
> Perhaps it was by the name Syed, which transcended.
> Then we tried to locate which downline did the Sultan descend from of the 13
> Official Wives of Prophet Muhammad named in the Holy Koran?
> Or was the Sultan of Perlis a descendant from the other 23 non-wives? Of the
> 13 Official Wives were (at least known) 3 Israeli women.
> Then you should come to this instant revelation, isn't Prophet Muhammad an
> Israeli himself? Yes, the answer is clear. All descendants of Moses are
> Israeli.
> In fact, the Holy Koran teaches that Moses was the First Muslim. Thus
> confirming all the descendants of Moses to be Israeli, including Jesus and
> Prophet Muhammad.
> But since this is not a Religious or a Theological discussion, let's move on
> to a more anthropological approach.
>
> So, how many of you have met with the Orang Asli's (Malaysian Natives)? The
> more northern you go, the more African they look.
> Why are they called Negrito's? It is a Spanish word, from which directly
> transalates "mini Negros". The more southern you go, the more "Indonesian"
> they look.
> And the ones who live at Cameron Highlands kinda look 50-50. You can see the
> Batek at Taman Negara, who really look like Eddie Murphy to a certain
> degree. Or the Negritos who live at the Thai border near Temenggor Lake
> (north Perak).
> The Mah Meri in Carrie Island look almost like the Jakuns in Endau Rompin.
> Half African, half Indonesian.
>
> Strangely the natives in Borneo all look rather Chinese in terms of features
> and facial characteristics especially the Kelabits in Bario.
> By definition, (this is super eye-opening) there was a Hindu-Malay Empire in
> Kedah.
> Yes, I said right… The Malays were Hindu (just like the gentle Balinese of
> today). It was known by its' old name, Langkasuka. Today known as Lembah
> Bujang.
> This Hindu-Malay Empire was 2,000yrs old. Pre-dating Borrobudor AND Angkor
> Watt. Which came about around 500-600yrs later.
> Lembah Bujang was THE mighty trading Empire, and its biggest influence was
> by the Indians who were here to help start it.
> By definition, this should make the Indians BUMIPUTERAS too since they were
> here 2,000yrs ago!
> Why are they marginalized?
>
> +18
>
> ...
> written by wali10, January 17, 2012 12:07:23
> Salam Pete
> I beg to differ. Firstly 'Hang' was never in their names. Hang was a title
> conferred by the palaces/rulers of those times, just like the present day
> Datuks, Tan Sri's.. or Darjah Kerabat's or some titles like Admiral,
> General, Marshall which would then be higher in rank than just Panglima. Of
> course there was no differentiation then - so long as one was VVVIP, then
> the title 'Hang' would be conferred. Thus Tuah, Jebat, Lekir, Kasturi
> (female) and Lekiu were malay names, and Li Po the Chinese princess was
> conferred 'Hang' due either to marriage or 'international political
> expediency'. Even the present day Melaka conferred datukship to that
> Bollywood Shah Rukh Khan... hehe!!
>
> Then the matter of silat. Silat -many types- originated in the malay
> archipelago and was mastered by the five "Hangs'.There happened one silat
> guru from Melaka Empire (Sumatra?) was sent or taken (?) to China to teach
> the ocean-going warriors the art of silat. During that era, 'bertapa' is
> normal, and so did this guru. His name was Budi Dharma, and the chinese
> spelt/pronounced it as Futi-Taluma, taught and bertapa (being pious) there.
> And thus the spread of Shaolin temple. Much later this martial art was taken
> to Japan, and the japanese pronounced this guru by the name of Bodi Darumas.
>
> Look it up, if u hv the time.
>
> -18
>
> ...
> written by Kampong, January 17, 2012 11:49:36
> I have always suspected the so-called social contract is also made up. No
> one has been able to produce a single written document yet, and the crooks
> just claim what they want.
>
> +20
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 11:43:50
> The writer failed to identify (probably didn't know), that the "Malay"
> definition also includes, the Champa, Dong Song, HoabinHian, The Taiwanese
> Alisan and the Philippino Aetas.
> He also did not identify that the "Orang Asli" are (for lack of a better
> term) ex-Africans.
> If you try to call any one of our East Malaysian brothers an "Orang Asli",
> they WILL BEAT YOU UP!
> I had to repeat this because almost all West Malaysians make the same
> mistake when we cross the South China Sea.
> Worse, somehow, they feel even more insulted when you call them "Malay".
> Somehow, "kurang ajar" is uttered below their breath as if "Malay" was a
> really bad word for them. I'm still trying to figure this one out.
>
> Watch "Malays in Africa"; a Museum Negara produced DVD. Also, the "Champa
> Malays" by the same.
> With this classification, they MUST also include the Phillipinos, the Papua
> New Guineans, the Australian Aboroginies, as well as the Polynesian
> Aboroginies.
> These are of the Australo Melanesians who migrated out of Africa 60,000yrs
> ago. Getting interesting? Read on...
>
> "Malay" should also include the Taiwanese singer "Ah Mei" who is Alisan as
> her tribe are the anscestors of the "Malays".
> And finally, you will need to define the Southern Chinese (Southern
> Province) as Malay also, since they are from the same stock 6,000yrs ago.
> Try calling the Bugis a "Malay". Interestingly, the Bugis, who predominantly
> live on Sulawesi are not even Indonesians. Neither do they fall into the
> same group as the migrating Southern Chinese of 6,000yrs
> ago nor the Australo Melanesian group from Africa.
>
> Ready for this?
>
> The Bugis are the cross-breed between the Mongolian Chinese and the
> marauding Arab Pirates.
> Interestingly, the Bugis, (just like their Arabic ancestors) were career
> Pirates in the Johor-Riau Island areas.
> Now the nephew of Daeng Kemboja was appointed as the First Sultan of
> Selangor. That makes the entire Selangor Sultanate part Arab, part Chinese!
> Try talking to the Bugis Museum curator near Kukup in Johor. Kukup is
> located near the most south-western tip of Johor. (Due south of Pontian
> Kechil) He is more than willing to expound on the Bugis heritage.
> Buy him lunch and he can talk for days on end.
>
> Let's not even get into the Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Kasturi, Hang Lekiu,
> and Hang Lekir, who shared the same family last name as the other super
> famous "Hang" family member... Hang Li Poh.
> And who was she? Legend tells us that she is the Princess of a Ming Dynasty
> Emperor who was sent to marry the Sultan of Malacca. Won't that make the
> entire Malacca Sultanate downline "Baba"?
> Since the older son of the collapsed Malaccan Sultanate got killed in Johor,
> (the current Sultanate is the downline of the then, Bendahara) the only
> other son became the Sultan of Perak.
> Do we see any Chinese-ness in Raja Azlan? Is he the descendant of Hang Li
> Poh?
> But wait a minute....
>
> That's what legend says. Let's look at the proof. The solid evidence.
>
> There is a well next to the Zheng He Temple in Malacca which is supposed to
> be the well built by the Sultan of Malacca for Hang Li Poh.
> According to legend, anyone who drinks of it shall re-visit Malacca before
> they die. Hmmm smells like a romantic fairy tale already.
> But let's look at who Hang Li Poh actually is. Which Ming Emperor was she a
> daughter to?
> So I got into researching the entire list of Ming Emperors. Guess what? Not
> a single Ming Emperor's last name begins with Hang.
> In fact, all their last names begin with Tzu (pronounced Choo). So who is
> Hang Li Poh? An Extra Concubine? A Spare Handmaiden? Who knows?
> But one thing for certain, is that she was no daughter of any of the Ming
> Emperors.
> Gone is the romantic notion of the Sultan of Malacca marrying an exotic
> Chinese Princess. Sorry guys, the Sultan married an unidentified Chinese
> commoner.
>
> +16
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 11:39:45
> An Oldie, but a Goodie….
> Sometimes we need to remind ourselves….
>
> The Origins of the Malays
> Prepared By Michael Chick
>
> It's been interesting to read such free-flowing comments on the subject of
> the Origins of the Malays.
> While we are on the subject, how many of you have read the book entitled
> "Contesting Malayness – Malay Identity Across Boundaries" Edited by Timothy
> P. Barnard published by Singapore University Press? Written by a Professor
> of National University of Singapore.
> It reflects the Anthropologists views that there is no such race as the
> "Malays" to begin with.
> If we follow the original migration of the Southern Chinese of 6,000yrs ago,
> they moved into Taiwan, (now the Alisan), then into the Phillipines (now the
> Aeta) and moved into Borneo (4,500yrs ago) (Dayak).
> They also split into Sulawesi and progressed into Jawa, and Sumatera. The
> final migration was to the Malayan Peninsular 3,000yrs ago. A sub-group from
> Borneo also moved to Champa in Vietnam at 4,500yrs ago.
>
> Interestingly, the Champa deviant group moved back to present day Kelantan.
> There are also traces of the Dong Song and HoaBinh migration from Vietnam
> and Cambodia.
> To confuse the issue, there was also the Southern Thai migration, from what
> we know as Pattani today. (see also "Early Kingdoms of the Indonesian
> Archipelago and the Malay Peninsular")
> Of course, we also have the Minangkabau's which come from the descendants of
> Alexander the Great and a West Indian Princess. (Sejarah Melayu page 1-3)
>
> So the million Dollar Question... Is there really a race called the
> "Malays"?
> All anthropologists DO NOT SEEM TO THINK SO. (strangely, this includes all
> Malay Malaysian Anthropologists who are of the same opinion.)
>
> Neither do the "Malays" who live on the West Coast of Johor. They'd rather
> be called Javanese.
> What about the west coast Kedah inhabitants who prefer to be known as
> "Achenese"? or the Ibans who simply want to be known as IBANS.
> Try calling a Kelabit a "Malay" and see what response you get... you'll be
> so glad that their Head-Hunting days are over.
>
> In an article in the Star, dated: Dec 3rd 2006 available for on-line viewing
> at:http://thestar.com.my/news/sto...&sec=focus
> An excerp is reproduced here below:
>
> "The Malays – taken as an aggregation of people of different ethnic
> backgrounds but who speak the same language or family of languages and share
> common cultural and traditional ties – are essentially a new race, compared
> to the Chinese, Indians and the Arabs with their long histories of quests
> and conquests.
> The Malay nation, therefore, covers people of various ethnic stock,
> including Javanese, Bugis, Bawean, Achehnese, Thai, Orang Asli, the
> indigenous people of Sabah and Sarawak and descendants of Indian Muslims who
> had married local women.
> Beneath these variations, however, there is a common steely core that is
> bent on changing the Malay persona from its perceived lethargic character to
> one that is brave, bold and ready to take on the world. "
>
> The definition of "Malay" is therefore simply a collection of people's who
> speak a similar type language. With what is meant by a similar type language
> does not mean that the words are similar. (A native Kelantanese native
> speaker has no clue whatsoever what his Iban native brother is talking
> about; if both speak their own dialect)
> Linguists however, call this the "Lego-Type" language, where words are added
> on to the root word to make meaning and give tenses and such.
> Somehow, the Indonesians disagree with this "Malay" classification and
> insist instead on being called "Indonesians" even though the majority of
> "Malays" have their roots in parts of Indonesia.
> They refuse to be called "Malay"…. Anyhow you may define it.
>
> +4
>
> ...
> written by panca, January 17, 2012 11:35:24
> You want to god worship, rock worship or idol worship or even elvis worship
> it is your choice and freedom, nobody stops you from believing and nobody
> can call you stupid or intelligent, it is your belief Religions are not
> dissimilar with cult of followers whether they do good or bad, some good
> 'followers' but bad to others because others do not believe the way believe
> then is heaven for them and hell for others, the list goes on! Some even say
> their god is the only true god and others are fake and there are even others
> say their prophets are god because they are god therefore they left nothing
> behind and that is how they would reason so we have agree on that because
> religion is about belief and it is always being in the belief system that is
> called faith and that is what they called truth, then gospel truth.
>
> No, it is not about revealing something about truth in religion per se
> because religion does need to be proven in that manner, it is about having
> faith and that is about it. But if we want to be able to talk about truth in
> religion in the open then it takes a broader scope of mind and an unclosed
> mind, not just an open mind but courage to penetrate levels upon levels
> seeking knowledge and in that it is only through our wisdom we can reach out
> to find the truth and if humans cannot have these mind of theirs to be
> unclosed then we won't be able look beyond our own intelligence. It is okay
> to believe what one wants to believe in religions and it is ok to keep on
> believing but wisdom that human has that equipped us in this mind should be
> a great source for seeking knowledge of truth and developing one's own
> higher levels of consciousness then merely believing.
>
> Stay awake!
>
> +3
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 11:34:54
> Malaysia Boleh...
> I find this strange.
>
> I also find, that it is strange that the "Chitti's" (Indian+Malay) of
> Malacca are categorized as Bumiputera, while their Baba brothers are not.
> Why? Both existed during the Parameswara days.
> Which part of the "Malay" side of the Baba's is not good enough for
> Bumiputera classification? Re-instate them. They used to be Bumiputera pre
> 1960's anyway.
>
> Instead of "Malay", I believe that "Maphilindo" (circa 1963) would have been
> the closest in accurately trying to describe the Malays. However, going by
> that definition, it should most accurately be
> "MaphilindoThaiChinDiaVietWanGreekCamfrica".
> And it is because of this; even our University Malaya Anthropology
> professors cannot look at you in the eye and truthfully say that the word
> "Malay" technically and accurately defines a race.
> This is most unfortunate.
>
> So, in a nutshell, the "Malays" (anthropologists will disagree with this
> "race" definition) are TRULY ASIA !!! For once the Tourism Ministry got it
> right…. We should stop calling this country "Tanah Melayu" instead call it,
> "Tanah Truly Asia"
> You must understand now, why I was "tickled pink" when I found out that the
> Visit Malaysia slogan for 2007 was "Truly Asia". They are so correct...
> (even though they missed out Greece, and Africa)
>
> BTW, the name UMNO should be changed to UTANO the new official acronym for
> "United Truly Asia National Organization" .
> After all, they started out as a Bugis club in Johor anyway….
>
> I told you all that I hate race classifications…. This is so depressing.
> Even more depressing is that the "malays" are not even a race; not since day
> one.
>
> "Truly Asia Boleh"
>
> +17
>
> ...
> written by Den, January 17, 2012 11:27:01
> The Truth Revealed (with evidence)!
>
> In June 1998, the government of Malaysia had hired a team of experts from
> all over the world to be gathered here in Malaysia for a research project to
> compliment the history studies that we undertook in our secondary school.
>
> The objective of the research is simply:
>
> 1. To find proof and evidence that show the Malays were the origins of
> Malaysia and they were the first race and religion that landed their feet in
> Malaysia .
>
> 2. To further strengthen their claims, first they need to find the graveyard
> of the Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat,Hang Lekiu and etc.. to show the existence of
> their pioneers.
>
> 3. The Batu bersurat in Terengganu, reveals that the islamic religionhas
> landed in Malaysia for more than a hundred years ago which furtherstrengthen
> their claims!
>
> BEWARE & OPEN YOUR EYES!!!
> Go and ask your brother, sister, niece, nephew etc.
> Since the year 1999 (if i'm not mistaken) or year 2000, do they study about
> HANG TUAH anymore ???
>
> Why is that popular subject GONE ??? Missing in action ??? or evidence
> reveals something else that caused the government to stop the syllabus and
> HIDE the TRUTH ???
>
> Here are the Evidences of the findings by the team of scientists,
> archaeologist, historian
> and other technical staff from the United States , United Kingdom , Germany
> , Canada , Yemen & Russia .
>
> The evidence are:
>
> 1) They finally found the graveyard of Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat etc..., their
> skeleton had been analized and samples of DNA taken with the results show:
> Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Hang Lekiu and mates were NOT MALAY!!!
> They were CHINESE (islamic) from China !!! Why were they here in Malacca???
>
> If go back in history, you would know that they were on a mission to protect
> the UNGRATEFUL MALAY Sultanate from the frequent attacks by the Kingdom of
> SIAM ( Thailand ) !!! So Hang Tuah was not Malay hero!!
>
> They were the protectors of the useless and ungrateful Parameswara (who was
> from INDONESIA ) landed in Malacca and claimed that the land belonged to
> him!!!
>
> The Hang Tuah bunch of people were all from China , they were being assigned
> to Malacca Sultanate because Parameswara requested the Ming Dynasty Emporer
> for protection!!!
>
> Hence, the rich historical heritage of the Babas & Nyonya being closely
> linked to the Seven Voyages to the Western Ocean by Admiral Zheng He who
> incidentally was a Chinese Muslim himself!
>
> That's why the Hang Tuah series of history is MISSING from the Malaysian
> SEJARAH today! !!
>
> Note : Remember Princess Hang Li Poh ? - All surname 'HANG'
>
> Second Evidence:
> The researchers hired by the government found the oldest tomb stones
> (graveyard) in Kelantan in year 2000. Surprisingly the tomb stones were at
> least 900 years old !!!
> Older than the so-called batu bersurat. And the best thing was that they all
> belonged to the CHINESE !!!
>
> Being landed first in Malacca doesn't mean Malay is the first in Malaysia
> because during that time, the road was too long or undeveloped for them to
> reach or see the other side of the coast where the Chinese had landed much
> earlier.
>
> If you want the black and white hard evidence of what the truth of the
> Research reveals,
> please write to The Federal Association of Archaeology & Research of
> Michigan, USA .
>
> This is a good reason to remind the UMNO Bumiputras NOT to ask the Chinese
> or Indians to go back to their Motherlands because the evidence had shown
> that Malays were NOT the original people of Malaysia !
>
> The Truth Revealed (with evidence) and anthropologists have yet to ascertain
> if there was indeed a Malay race!
>
> +31
>
> ...
> written by earthman, January 17, 2012 10:52:56
> Just because there is no written evidence , doesn't meant it had not
> happened. Many events happened and it was not recorded and only those who
> heard it knows it. And faith is the substance we hope for without hurting
> others.
> People can believe whatever they want and that is that , nothing more . They
> can't force others to believe or follow what they believed and worshiped.
> That is why freedom to believe and worship should be the rights of all
> human. One should be responsible for one's behavior other than causing hurt
> to others or disturbing the peace.
> Hang Tuah should not replaced ABU . For ABU is now and real while Hang Tuah
> is just a story. Professor , what is your view on ABU? Is he real or a
> story?
Jesus Isa Yeshua Jewish Christ , the Human Scum who claimed to be THE SON of GOD , was a STRONG Anti TAWHID
Jan 17, 2012, 5:25:24 AM1/17/12
to
yes
Malays are pendatangs from the Philippines Mindanao .
I hate all CHINESE .
Malays are pendatangs from the Philippines Mindanao .
That is why I am GAY :
Dark Skin Filipino in the mountains were the original
Malays .
DARK SKIN FILIPINO migrated through Indonesia to get to
Malayu penisular .
But Dark Skin Filipino , Dark Skin Khmers , Dark Skin
Indonesians were all original natives of SE ASIA,
all CHINESE in SE ASIA , in ASEAN , were foreigners in
ASEAN
and
are still foreigners in SE ASIA , because all original
natives of SE ASIA were all DARK SKIN people .
Vietnamese were originally from the Yue territories ,
from HangZhou in China ,.
Jan 17, 2:25 pm, "abu bakar" <abu ba...@tmnet.com.my> wrote:
- Show quoted text -
người cộng sản Vietcong
Jan 17, 2012, 6:52:52 AM1/17/12
to
Hey... My faggot BABE...I don't mind whatever names U R using and
whosoever ass U R kissing...I still love U babe!!!
On Jan 17, 10:25 am, "Jesus Isa Yeshua Jewish Christ , the Human
Scum who claimed to be THE SON of GOD , was a STRONG
whosoever ass U R kissing...I still love U babe!!!
On Jan 17, 10:25 am, "Jesus Isa Yeshua Jewish Christ , the Human
Scum who claimed to be THE SON of GOD , was a STRONG
charlie vietcong , fighter for communism Tawhid
Jan 19, 2012, 2:39:21 AM1/19/12
to
Malays , Filipino , Khmers , Indonesians are all DARK SKIN
people ,
all REAL natives of SE ASIA all have DARK SKIN .
Malays , Filipino , Khmers , Indonesians all inter- married
with each other ,
all DARK SKIN REAL NATIVES of SE ASIA inter - married with
each other .
ONLY outsiders Chinese from China living in SE ASIA and
claiming to be Malaysian,
are refusing to inter - marry with
Dark Skin Malays .
.
Jan 17, 5:25 pm, "Jesus Isa Yeshua Jewish Christ , the Human Scum
people ,
all REAL natives of SE ASIA all have DARK SKIN .
Malays , Filipino , Khmers , Indonesians all inter- married
with each other ,
all DARK SKIN REAL NATIVES of SE ASIA inter - married with
each other .
ONLY outsiders Chinese from China living in SE ASIA and
claiming to be Malaysian,
are refusing to inter - marry with
Dark Skin Malays .
.
Jan 17, 5:25 pm, "Jesus Isa Yeshua Jewish Christ , the Human Scum
người cộng sản Vietcong
Jan 19, 2012, 6:37:25 AM1/19/12
to
Anh yêu em lắm babe!
Don't keep talking to yourself BABE!
On Jan 19, 7:39 am, "charlie vietcong , fighter for communism
Don't keep talking to yourself BABE!
On Jan 19, 7:39 am, "charlie vietcong , fighter for communism
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