Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
Dagmawi
Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
This article has two purposes. The first is to quote some information
about a great historical figure among the Matcha Oromo of Ethiopia known
as Makko Billi, who probably lived during a period that included the
years 1589 and 1618. The source of this information is Mohammed
Hassen’s “The Oromo of Ethiopia.”
Mohammed Hassen is an Oromo historian, and one of the top historians of
Ethiopia. I mention his ethnicity simply to short-circuit the character
assassination that inevitably appears when historical facts contradict
political theories.
The second purpose of this article is to comment on two terms
(“neftenya” and “black colonialism”) that have political significance
much beyond their actual relevance to Ethiopia today.
[Note: The quotations below are all from “The Oromo of Ethiopia” by
Mohammed Hassen, 1994. This book is available at www.amazon.com.
Although for the purposes of this article I am excerpting only small
pieces of this book, people who read the entire book will be rewarded
with a great appreciation of Oromo history and enriching details of
historical Oromo culture. It is highly recommended.]
(1) BACKGROUND ON OROMO EXPANSION:
Makko Billi lived during the early years of the Oromo expansion, when
the Matcha Oromo had just conquered Wellega...
“ As we have seen, the Matcha spread over a wide area within three to
four decades. Their campaign was stopped in the south by the people of
Ennaryea (Jimma region), to the east by the people of Hadiya, Gurage,
Kambata, and Janjero; to the north the Abbay provided a natural
barrier.”
(2) THE GABBARO - (CONQUERED PEOPLE)
The Matcha conquered a large number of indigenous people, especially
during the period of the Birmaji gada (1578 - 1586) - one of the most
military succesful of the Borana gada...
“Throughout this vast area [Wellega Region], the Matcha lived among the
conquered people, who probably outnumbered them nine to one.” “The
Oromo term for the conquered people was “gabbaro” (those who serve).”
(3) REVOLT OF THE GABBARO IN THE YEAR 1618
The famous revolt of the Gabbaro took place in 1618, shortly before the
Kilole gada assumed office. The gabbaro sought help from King Banaro
of Ennaryea (Jimma Region) as well as Sela Christos, governor of
Gojjam...
“The conquered people, whose pride was humbled in the dust of slavery,
and whose number was reduced through sale, realized that their only hope
of safety was open rebellion. One result was a celebrated uprising of
conquered people against the Matcha, in the region between Ennaryea and
the Abbay.”
“When the rights of the “gabbaro” were trampled upon, their women and
children sold into slavery by their Oromo masters, the “yahabata”
[gabbaro cavalry] rebelled all over the Matcha land.”
(4) DESCRIPTION OF MAKKO BILLI
“According to a very popular Matcha tradition, a certain historical
figure called Makko Billi played a decisive role at an early stage in
the life of the Matcha “chafe” at Oda Bisil. His contribution is well
preserved in the tradition, and his name still is recalled fondly among
the Matcha.”
“The Matcha tradition claims that Makko Billi was ‘an able leader, a
great law-giver and raajii (prophet) at the same time.’ As an able
leader he succeded in establishing the famous Matcha “chafe” at Oda
Bisil. As a law-giver, he instructed the Matcha in the “gada laws.”
Some of these laws dealt with the ‘art’ of settling disputes over land,
the importance of perfroming “butta” (the slughtering of bulls by the
members of the new gada set) every eight years, and the observance of
the new-year ritual annually. As “raajii” Makko Billi spoke to the
Matcha in the name of Waqa (the Oromo god) and instructed them to follow
‘the way of Waqa.’”
(5) CONCEPT OF SAFFU
“Among other Oromo (even among the Tulama, their Borana brethren) both
the name and the law of Makko Billi are unknown. However, among the
Matcha, Makko Billi is still remembered not only for his qualities
mentioned above, but as well for an important Matcha concept which is
connected inextricably with his name. This is the concept of “saffu”
which is very difficult to translate into English. It embodies a
concept somewhat closer to the Marxist dialectical law of unity of the
opposites. But it differs in this law in that the opposites do not
struggle in unity. They live without struggling against each other
because the moment they do, the basis of their peaceful coexistence will
be destroyed.”
“It appears that the main ideas embodied in the concept of saffu are
harmony, respect, avoidance, and distance. Saffu is mutual. In this
sense, it is said that thorns and the sole of the feet are saffu to one
another...Ashes and flour are saffu... Old and young are saffu... Slave
and master are safu to one another. This saffu came from Waqa and it
was Makko Billi, who in the name of the Oromo god, ‘applied’ this cosmic
law of Matcha.”
(6) CREATION OF MATCHA CHAFE AT ODA BISIL
After the Matcha conquered Wellega, the distance between them and the
Tulama was too great for a common chafe. They established their own
chafe after crossing the Guder river during the Birmaji gada (1578 -
1586).
“Makko Billi must have played a dramatic role at the time when the
Matcha formed their independent “chafe.” This may explain why his name
has been so deeply involved in the Matcha oral tradition.”
“The new center called Oda Bisil was located between the Gedo, Billo,
and Gibe rivers.”
(7) DEATH OF MAKKO BILLI DURING GABBARO REVOLT
“It is claimed that when a huge gabbaro force suddenly and unexpectedly
encircled Oda Bisil, thus exposing the Matcha to destruction, he quickly
devised an ingenious stratagem that enabled his followers to break out
of the encirclement. According to this tradition, Makko Billi himself
was killed while trying to escape, but his strategy saved the Matcha
from extermination.”
“Much remains to be understood about Makko Billi “the law giver”, “the
prophet”, and war strategist, but enough is already clear to frame a
picture of an extraordinary leader who was active in the early stages of
the formation of the Matcha central “chafe” at Oda Bisil.”
==========
COMMENTS
==========
(a) Neftenya - From the above excerpts, it is clear that Makko Billi
was what would today be called a “neftenya.” He was almost certainly
not born in Wellega, but rather arrived there as a conquering “neftenya”
and helped subjugate the indigenous people (90 percent of the
population). The tradition that he was killed suppressing a revolt of
the gabbaro indicates that he was active in maintaining an oppressive
system that rewarded the Oromo elite (who constituted only 10 percent of
the population).
Now I do not regard being a neftenya in a historical context as either
negative or positive. It is simply the way it was, and it is wrong to
apply the standards of one age to select historical personalities or
ethnic groups in the past. I am myself descended in part from Shoan
neftenyas (both Oromo and non-Oromo) who settled in Arsi during and
shortly after the time of Menilik.
The fact is that most ethnic groups (in particular the populous Oromo
and Amhara) have a dynamic history in which they have played many
roles. Twisting our history so that one group appears as pathetic
victims while another are painted as evil oppressors is an immature and
irresponsible political tactic.
It is far better to teach people the rich Ethiopian history, such as
that of the Matcha Oromo, and to let people know the great qualities of
people like Makko Billi, who clearly was an intellectual giant in
Ethiopian history. Oromo history has been badly neglected in the past,
and all Ethiopians would greatly benefit by learning more about Oromo
cultural and political history.
(b) Black Colonialism - According to the poorly-developed theories
expressed by some individuals on this forum, Makko Billi would be a
“black colonialist.” However it would be outrageous to reduce the
status of a great individual such as Makko Billi to that of “black
colonialist.” Unfortunately, this is exactly what is done to some other
Ethiopian historical figures.
I regard this theory of “black colonialism” as simply inflammatory
rhetoric. The multi-ethnic history of Ethiopia is rich enough to
provide its own interpretive models.
As readers of this newsgroup have seen, ‘black colonialist” is used to
flame individuals and entire ethnic groups. But does this inflammatory
rhetoric fit in with the concept of “saffu” as introduced by Makko
Billi? Are the flamer and the flamed “saffu”? I think not. Saffu is
harmony, respect, avoidance and distance. Flaming on the other hand can
consume both the flamer and the flamed together, damaging them both. It
has nothing to do with saffu. Even if people are opposite in outlook,
their relationship and interchange should be free of flames.
CONCLUSION
The intolerance exhibited by the preachers of “black colonialism” is as
bad as that exhibited by the cult-like devotees of the old historical
mythology of Ethiopia. A broader, truer and more durable understanding
of Ethiopian history is needed.
- Dagmawi
Misgana
>Subject: Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
>From: Dagmawi <dag...@icfkaiser.com>
>Date: Mon, Mar 2, 1998 23:09 EST
>Message-id: <34FB82...@icfkaiser.com>
Dagmawi: Today I was about to respond to Makobili's "black colonialist"
b....... with a quote or two from Mohammed Hassen's "The Oromo of Ethiopia". I
was planning also to state that Mohammed is an Oromo and therefore cannot be
blamed for "Abyssinian fabricated history" even though that is not impossible.
And lo and behold here you are taking the words right out of my mouth - I mean
word for word.
ense...@juno.com
In article <34FB82...@icfkaiser.com>,
dag...@icfkaiser.com wrote:
> (1) BACKGROUND ON OROMO EXPANSION:
> Makko Billi lived during the early years of the Oromo expansion, when
> the Matcha Oromo had just conquered Wellega...
>
> “ As we have seen, the Matcha spread over a wide area within three to
> four decades. Their campaign was stopped in the south by the people of
> Ennaryea (Jimma region), to the east by the people of Hadiya, Gurage,
> Kambata, and Janjero; to the north the Abbay provided a natural
> barrier.”
Dear Dagmawi,
Your effort to present a balanced picture of the Oromo Expansion is
commendable. However, I would like to caution you that the individual with
whom you are dealing with (Makiavelli -- a would-be Makko Billi) is a fellow
that is not given to reason but a fanatical hatred of a group of Ethiopians
he refers to as Abbysinians. I had tried to reason with him a few years back,
but gave it up when it became quite clear to me that he was not at all
interested in pursuing the TRUTH, i.e., that all Ethiopian ethnic groups have
conquered one another at one time or another, although some have been more
successful at it than others, and that what is important for us in this day
and age is not to argue who should be blamed for our past mistakes but rather
how to find a way to peacefully live together. Good luck in your effort.
Fiqroo
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Abdirashid A Hussein
>he refers to as Abbysinians. I had tried to reason with him a few years back,
>but gave it up when it became quite clear to me that he was not at all
>interested in pursuing the TRUTH, i.e., that all Ethiopian ethnic groups have
>conquered one another at one time or another, although some have been more
>successful at it than others, and that what is important for us in this day
>and age is not to argue who should be blamed for our past mistakes but rather
>how to find a way to peacefully live together. Good luck in your effort.
>
If truth be said, there is Abyssinians and there are non-Abyssinians: And
the twain shall never merge into one untill eternity. You may devise all
manner and styles to disguise all historical facts, but in the end,
justice will suffice. If one asserts his non-Abyssiniannes, why the heck
would one be reagarded a treasonable fella in this day and age? Only the
weak and insecure feel so.
Abdirashid.
--
YESHI22
ahus...@osf1.gmu.edu (Abdirashid A Hussein) writes:
>Date: Wed, Mar 4, 1998 09:29 EST
>Message-id: <6djogp$2...@portal.gmu.edu>
It's not as simple as it looks on the surface. If one accepts the Oromo of the
North by default accepts the role of the Oromo in building Ethiopian Empire.
The Yijji dynasty is of the Oromo making long before Menelik and Gobana
was ever born. IMHO, Gorade and Makobili are no less Abyssinians than
any other Ethiopians in this NG. The only difference is in how they look at
the old Empire and probably their vision of future Ethiopia. We all have
opinions on that; therefore is negotiable.
If your ancestors built the Abyssinian Empire, you can't just wish it's not
yours!
You will have to do better than that. Declaring you aren't is a cope out. And
blaming others for all sorts of crime is even a 'felony' and probably should
be
regarded as a 'treasonable fella' as you put it. I think those that give the
Amara/
Tigre the sole responsibility of the Abyssinian Empire, to exonerate them
selves
from 'alleged crime' and identify with the 'assumed victims' are weak and
insecure. They should face it and smell the coffee, Oromo is no less victim
than
an Amara. The Empire is no creation of one or two nationalities.
Regards.
P.S (this is for you my friend; Abdirashid!)
By the way it's the 102 yrs anniversary of the battle of Adwa.
March 1, 1896.,' Menelik and Taitu delivered them a humiliating blow which
Mussolini's hordes returned to avenge in 1935. Dumbfounded Western
"scholars" concluded and tought that Menelik was a "Colonialist" and
this legacy of racist "scholarship" has lingered to this day!
Interestingly, the same esprit de corps but with different verses
appears to find its general echo among the ethnocentric leadership and
collaborators of today. Long live the heroic spirit of Empress Taitu!!.'
gor...@hotmail.com
In article <6di7uc$eot$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> > Makko Billi lived during the early years of the Oromo expansion, when
> > the Matcha Oromo had just conquered Wellega...
> >
> > “ As we have seen, the Matcha spread over a wide area within three to
> > four decades. Their campaign was stopped in the south by the people of
> > Ennaryea (Jimma region), to the east by the people of Hadiya, Gurage,
> > Kambata, and Janjero; to the north the Abbay provided a natural
> > barrier.”
>
>
> Your effort to present a balanced picture of the Oromo Expansion is
> commendable. However, I would like to caution you that the individual with
> whom you are dealing with (Makiavelli -- a would-be Makko Billi) is a fellow
> that is not given to reason but a fanatical hatred of a group of Ethiopians
back,
> but gave it up when it became quite clear to me that he was not at all
> interested in pursuing the TRUTH, i.e., that all Ethiopian ethnic groups
have
> conquered one another at one time or another, although some have been more
> successful at it than others, and that what is important for us in this day
> and age is not to argue who should be blamed for our past mistakes but
rather
> how to find a way to peacefully live together. Good luck in your effort.
>
I dont know why you have to get all these nerves. Makobili has already
made a good point to many of us and that was the importance of how one
identifies
himself. As you know, there were and still there are people that
identify themselves as jews/semites/conquering tribe fromjudah on the
one hand, and arabs/axums, etc...In other words, people who crossed sea
to conqure the cush people, note, "TO CONQUER THE CUSH PEOPLE".
According to their kebra Negast, conquering others was legal until the last
day of Haile Selassie and our new boses are now looking for a more working
similar legal system . In other words, dictating over others, enslaving, and
colonizing were all legal until very recently, and there are still children
of the Neftegna shouting loud and clear in support of this and to return all
these back on the cush people, and others(who only disagree with the
Neftegnas with who should lead) are encouraging what is going on
in todays ethiopia.
Now, you tell me this is the same as my cushite tribe in the past
conquering my
own in the process of living together. Please, tell us more abou it.
I dont want to get hotter before I understand you.
Dagmawi
> Dagmawi: Today I was about to respond to Makobili's "black colonialist"
> b....... with a quote or two from Mohammed Hassen's "The Oromo of Ethiopia". I
> was planning also to state that Mohammed is an Oromo and therefore cannot be
> blamed for "Abyssinian fabricated history" even though that is not impossible.
> And lo and behold here you are taking the words right out of my mouth - I mean
> word for word.
Misgana -
Sorry to jump ahead of you, I thought perhaps you might get tired of
posting the excerpts from historical sources and leave the field to the
preacher of 'black colonialism. Thanks for posting all the previous
information.
>Dear Dagmawi,
>Your effort to present a balanced picture of the Oromo Expansion is
>commendable. However, I would like to caution you that the individual with
>whom you are dealing with (Makiavelli -- a would-be Makko Billi) is a fellow
>that is not given to reason but a fanatical hatred of a group of Ethiopians
>he refers to as Abbysinians. I had tried to reason with him a few years back,
>but gave it up when it became quite clear to me that he was not at all
>interested in pursuing the TRUTH, i.e., that all Ethiopian ethnic groups have
>conquered one another at one time or another, although some have been more
>successful at it than others, and that what is important for us in this day
>and age is not to argue who should be blamed for our past mistakes but rather
>how to find a way to peacefully live together. Good luck in your effort.
>Fiqroo
Fiqroo -
I agree with you that a few individuals on this forum are not here to
discuss things in a sincere and honest manner, but rather are intent on
creating as much ethnic hatred as possible.
However, I am not writing/responding to articles with the specific
purpose of trying to reason with one individual - it is pointless with
the fellow you mentioned. The audience is much wider. This forum is a
good place for open discussion and it should not be abandoned to the
merchants of hate.
- Dagmawi
gor...@hotmail.com
In article <19980305010...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
yes...@aol.com wrote
> Just listen to yourself; your cushite's are no less brutal than
> the Africans from the north.
Africans from north? You mean I am lying when I say semetic/judah/arab...?
Dear, ask and listen from them. You have only to accuse me if I am
fabricating. Then, how can one be more brutal to his own than others on
his people?
yoa
For someone who was writing on this forum (a world-wide forum)
that Amaras and Tigres are cannybals and pygmies, and who day
and day after engages in an ethnic slander, I say you are in
no position to call anyone weak and insecure. Amazingly enough
you are a would be PhD candidate in CONFLICT resolution at some
University called GMU, from which your hate filled postings
originate. Besides it is about time you start speaking for yourself.
Pygmie, pygmie, cannibals, cannibals...cannibals, Abyssinians....
Man! what do they teach you in that program? "...the twain shall
never merge into one until eternity..." What an educated guess!
Stop making a fool out of yourself, dear Abdirashid A Hussein.
~~Yoda
Abdirashid A Hussein wrote:
> If truth be said, there is Abyssinians and there are non-Abyssinians: And
> the twain shall never merge into one untill eternity. You may devise all
> manner and styles to disguise all historical facts, but in the end,
> justice will suffice. If one asserts his non-Abyssiniannes, why the heck
> would one be reagarded a treasonable fella in this day and age? Only the
> weak and insecure feel so.
>
> Abdirashid.
>
>
> --
YESHI22
>Now, you tell me this is the same as my cushite tribe in the past
>conquering my
>own in the process of living together. Please, tell us more abou it.
>I dont want to get hotter before I understand you.
>
Now, that is silly! your cushite raping and enslaving is ok!
but, the neftegnas (black colonialist) oh! No! it's unholly!
Just listen to yourself; your cushite's are no less brutal than
the Africans from the north. They were all trying to live their
time the best they know. No need to get hotter my friend!
let us be real!
mako...@netcom.com
Dagmawi (dag...@icfkaiser.com) wrote:
: Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
Any more comments before I tear this thread apart?
Makobili
FasilL123
>Any more comments before I tear this thread apart?
>
>Makobili
Huff and Puff.....if history has any authority the only thing you will tear
apart will be your guts for lack of grey matter. Encore ......
Charlie....encore.....let the jest begin and then we be amused!
YESHI22
gor...@hotmail.com writes:
>Date: Thu, Mar 5, 1998 00:57 EST
>Message-id: <6dlerq$ugc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>> the Africans from the north.
>
>Dear, ask and listen from them. You have only to accuse me if I am
>fabricating. Then, how can one be more brutal to his own than others on
>his people?
Be seriious! When black folks say they are part Indian or Cheroki, they
aint saying, I am not African. It's just indicating their heritage other
than black in them. The same is true of Semites in Ethiopia. They're no
different than the Afro-American in this country. By the way, Ethiopians
from North to South are probably mixed anyway.' Your cushite' Somali
brothers/sisters appear to have more Arab blood in them than most
Amara/Tigre and you know it too! Who are we kidding? That won't make
Somalis less African. Does it?
I also think people should have the right to be proud of their heritage.
You don't see anything wrong with that. Do you? So what if they say
they're part semite, judah or what ever? By the way, I have read
the cushite is the one who crossed the red sea to conquer the middle
east. So there! It wasn't the other way around. What are you going to
do now? Those ' bastards' ain't going disappear!.. Yeah! some are still
living in the middle east others are back. Some are going now, as we
speak to live in Israel. Why is that a problem to you?
Regards.
Misgana
>Subject: Re: Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
>From: mako...@netcom.com
>Date: Wed, Mar 4, 1998 20:27 EST
>Message-id: <makobiliE...@netcom.com>
>
>Makobili
>
>
From: Webster's Dictionary
EGOTISM
Pronunciation: 'E-g&-"ti-z&m also 'e-
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin ego + English -tism (as in idiotism)
Date: 1714
1 a : excessive use of the first person singular personal pronoun
b : the practice of talking about oneself too much
2 : an exaggerated sense of self-importance
_______________________________________________________
Lest the concerned individual likely takes this definition as
a compliment, it should be noted that egotism is usually simply
a defense mechanism against it's opposite - lack of self-worth.
Misgana
>Subject: Re: Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
>Date: Wed, Mar 4, 1998 18:58 EST
>Message-id: <6dkpqv$97c$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>In article <6di7uc$eot$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> ense...@juno.com wrote:
>>
>> In article <34FB82...@icfkaiser.com>,
>> dag...@icfkaiser.com wrote:
>>
>> > (1) BACKGROUND ON OROMO EXPANSION:
>> > Makko Billi lived during the early years of the Oromo expansion, when
>> > the Matcha Oromo had just conquered Wellega...
>> >
>> > “ As we have seen, the Matcha spread over a wide area within three to
>> > four decades. Their campaign was stopped in the south by the people of
>> > Ennaryea (Jimma region), to the east by the people of Hadiya, Gurage,
>> > Kambata, and Janjero; to the north the Abbay provided a natural
>> > barrier.”
>>
>>
>> Your effort to present a balanced picture of the Oromo Expansion is
>> commendable. However, I would like to caution you that the individual with
>> whom you are dealing with (Makiavelli -- a would-be Makko Billi) is a
>fellow
>> that is not given to reason but a fanatical hatred of a group of Ethiopians
>> he refers to as Abbysinians. I had tried to reason with him a few years
>back,
>> but gave it up when it became quite clear to me that he was not at all
>> interested in pursuing the TRUTH, i.e., that all Ethiopian ethnic groups
>have
>> conquered one another at one time or another, although some have been more
>> successful at it than others, and that what is important for us in this day
>> and age is not to argue who should be blamed for our past mistakes but
>rather
>> how to find a way to peacefully live together. Good luck in your effort.
>>
>> Fiqroo
>
>made a good point to many of us and that was the importance of how one
>identifies
>himself. As you know, there were and still there are people that
>identify themselves as jews/semites/conquering tribe fromjudah on the
>one hand, and arabs/axums, etc...In other words, people who crossed sea
>to conqure the cush people, note, "TO CONQUER THE CUSH PEOPLE".
>According to their kebra Negast, conquering others was legal until the last
>day of Haile Selassie and our new boses are now looking for a more working
>similar legal system . In other words, dictating over others, enslaving, and
>colonizing were all legal until very recently, and there are still children
>of the Neftegna shouting loud and clear in support of this and to return all
>these back on the cush people, and others(who only disagree with the
>Neftegnas with who should lead) are encouraging what is going on
>in todays ethiopia.
>conquering my
>own in the process of living together. Please, tell us more abou it.
>I dont want to get hotter before I understand you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
>>
>
>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
>
There should be consistency in one's argument. You cannot argue that the
European version of African history is false and intended to enslave Africans,
as you and others say regarding Oromo history, and use the same Europeans
version of African history to advance the "Semite/Cushite" theory. The problem
is
no matter which way you argue, if you use consistency, your argument comes up
contradicting itself.
abugeda
A Question and a comment.......
gor...@hotmail.com wrote:
> ...In other words, people who crossed sea
> to conqure the cush people, note, "TO CONQUER THE CUSH PEOPLE".
> According to their kebra Negast, conquering others was legal until the last
> day of Haile Selassie and our new boses are now looking for a more working
> similar legal system . In other words, dictating over others, enslaving, and
> colonizing were all legal until very recently, and there are still children
> of the Neftegna shouting loud and clear in support of this and to return all
> these back on the cush people, and others(who only disagree with the
> Neftegnas with who should lead) are encouraging what is going on
> in todays ethiopia.
> Now, you tell me this is the same as my cushite tribe in the past
> conquering my
> own in the process of living together. Please, tell us more abou it.
> I dont want to get hotter before I understand you.
>
1. My question is, WHAT/WHO are cushites? We have forgotten that the designation
"SEMITE" or "CUSHITE" in the Ethiopian context are used to identify and categorize
LANGUAGES. I do not think there are any cultural traits that are exclusively
CUSHITE or exclusively SEMITE in the Ethiopian context. To talk of us versus them
as a Cushite vs Semite dialectic is not only incorrect but also dangerous. I
challenge anyone to show me a non-language trait that is EXCLUSIVELY Cushite and
EXCLUSIVELY Semite.
2. My comment concerns Ali Mazrui's preferred definition of Africa. He believes it
is more correct to include the Arab and Jewish middle east as part of Africa. The
reasons are geographic, religious and cultural. It does not make sense to see the
Arabs of Northern Africa and those of the Middle East as separate entities but as
part of the cultural and linguistic continuity of Africa. This definition would
also apply to the Falasha of Ethiopia ,the ancient tie between present day Yemen
and the Ethiopian highland areas, the Christian heritage of Ethiopia and
Jerusalem, the Moslem pilgrimage to Mecca.
Lest people forget, the Red Sea is a tiny pond - an almost insignificant hurdle to
anyone wishing to cross it to get to the other side. Distance-wise, one travels
significantly further from Moyale (at the Southern tip of Ethiopia - which some
scholars think is the original home of the Oromo) to the Raya and Azebo district
of Tigrai ( which may be the northernmost tip of the Oromo settlement after their
expansion) than crossing the Red Sea from Yemen to present day Eritrea. Also, the
land trip is infinitely harder as it had to be done through the resistance of
countless communities. If we indeed consider the Red Sea not to be there as a
strip of water, I think there is the possibility of revolutionizing some
conceptions of the "Semite - Cushite" issue.
abugeda
Misgana
>Subject: Re: Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
>Date: Wed, Mar 4, 1998 23:06 EST
>Message-id: <34FE24...@icfkaiser.com>
>
>> Dagmawi: Today I was about to respond to Makobili's "black colonialist"
>> b....... with a quote or two from Mohammed Hassen's "The Oromo of
>Ethiopia". I
>> was planning also to state that Mohammed is an Oromo and therefore cannot
>be
>> blamed for "Abyssinian fabricated history" even though that is not
>impossible.
>> And lo and behold here you are taking the words right out of my mouth - I
>mean
>> word for word.
>
>
>Misgana -
>Sorry to jump ahead of you, I thought perhaps you might get tired of
>posting the excerpts from historical sources and leave the field to the
>preacher of 'black colonialism. Thanks for posting all the previous
>information.
>
>
Actually I am tired of posting because what I am posting is
negative history. The history of expansion is the history of
suffering, killing, displacement, enslavement and so on of
innocent people, wether it is that of the glorified Axum, or of
Zera Yakob, or of Mako Bili, or of Ahmed Gragn or of Menilik.
I do not want to overdo it and make it devisive. I justed wanted
to counter Makobili The Shameless Liar. I will post other
stuff that could be interesting. Thanks for your contribution.
mako...@netcom.com
Misgana (mis...@aol.com) wrote:
: From: Webster's Dictionary
: EGOTISM
: Pronunciation: 'E-g&-"ti-z&m also 'e-
: Function: noun
: Etymology: Latin ego + English -tism (as in idiotism)
: Date: 1714
: 1 a : excessive use of the first person singular personal pronoun
: b : the practice of talking about oneself too much
: 2 : an exaggerated sense of self-importance
: _______________________________________________________
: Lest the concerned individual likely takes this definition as
: a compliment, it should be noted that egotism is usually simply
: a defense mechanism against it's opposite - lack of self-worth.
Considering that the individual being referred to has kept dozens of
Nefxenyas like you working overtime in cyberspace for years, why on earth
should he lack self-worth at all? Would it note make more sense to
conclude those accusing him feel frustrated and are resorting to
personalized attacks against him? Zillions of nefxenyas may say whatever
they want against him but the individual will not budge an inch from his
position.
Makobili
mako...@netcom.com
Dagmawi (dag...@icfkaiser.com) wrote:
: Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
Dagmawi:
There are two things I liked in your original article in this thread.
The first is your honesty and the other, however odd it may sound, your
dishonesty. Both have made my response to you much easier than
you might have thought.
I liked your honesty in telling us who you are and what your
back ground is. You told us you "descended from Shoan neftenyas who
settled in Arsi during and shortly after the time of Menelik." I am
sure you will agree with me that in this time and age, when many
with similar background as you hide their true identities and write
anti-Oromo propaganda using fake names, it is hard to come by someone
like you who courageously states that his fore parents are among
Menelik's army that occupied Oromia, Ogadenia and what is today
southern Ethiopia nearly a handred years ago. Therefore, I liked
and appreciated your honesty.
Now it is my turn to be honest with you and tell you a little about
myself. In short, I descended from Oromo families that the nefxenyas
conquered and subjugated during and after the time of Menelik.
Clearly, we are exact opposites in this regard. You count your
ancestors from and to the occupiers and the colonists, and I count
mine to and from the occupied and the colonized. To you Menelik and
his army of neftenyas are not only your kin but are also your heroes.
To me they are aliens and villains who occupied my people and my
homeland. You want the to keep the legacy of your fore parents alive,
and I want to dismantle it. Is it any wonder then that you and I
cannot agree when we talk about Oromo-Abyssinian relations? I will
leave the answer to readers.
Your dishonesty is evident in the conclusion you drew from a small
segment of what Mohammed Hassen, a distinguished Oromo scholar
and a personal friend of mine, had written. I am sure Mohammed
will be greatly disappointed the moment he finds out that a proud
nefxenya has deliberately misinterpreted sections in his book for
the purpose of justifying the Nefxenya colonial rule in Oromia and
Ogadenia.
Basically, your conclusion from the quotations you presented is:
"Because the Oromo people have conquered someone at some time in
history, the colonization of the Oromo people by Abyssinians is
justifiable."
Your conclusion is wrong on two counts. Firstly, two wrongs do
not make right. Secondly and more importantly, whoever the Oromo
may have conquered in the past are today indistinguishable
components of the Oromo nation itself. My own ancestors could
well be one of those conquered by the Oromo in the distant past,
but for all I care and know I am as Oromo as those who may have
descended from those who conquered my ancestors and we are
indistinguishable. The bottom line is, the Oromo conquest
created a larger Oromo nation, but the Abyssinian conquest of
Oromia created colonists and the colonized. Whoever the Oromo
conquered was immediately integrated into the Oromo nation
primarily because the Oromo democratic system of governance had
procedures in place for naturalization. I will quote from
Mohammed Hassen's book on the naturalization procedure:
"An important Oromo institution which seems to
have facilitated the process of the migration
was the process called moggaasa (adoption).
One form of moggasa is known as guddifacha
(a foster parent adopting a child}. This still
exists. Traditionally, the adopted son was
looked upon as a real son, and he enjoyed all
rights of a true son. Even if foster parents had
a son of their own after they had adopted a son,
the first remained angafa (the oldest son) with
all the rights and privileges. The second form
of adoption, which has a special relevance to our
subject, is known as moggaasa, adoption into a
clan or tribe. The adopted individual or group
could be either Oromo or non-Oromo. The adoption
was undertaken by the Abba Gada on behalf of his
gossa ('clan'). Before adoption, animals were
slaughtered and a knife was dipped in the blood
of the victim and planted in the assembly, composed
of the elders of the gossa and the representatives
of other gossas. Then the Aba Gada said a prayer
blessing the new members and the adopted individual,
or groups touched the knife planted in the assembly,
repeating in chorus what the Aba Gada had to say. "I
hate what you hate, I like what you like, I fight whom
you fight, I go where you go, I chase whom you chase,
etc." This oath was binding and "unbreakable" on both
sides. The adopted groups now became collectively the
"sons" of the gossa. The blood symbolized the brotherly
unity of the gossa and its new "sons" and the knife
symbolized the readiness of the gossa to fight for the
right of its new members, while the new members pledged
themselves to fight for the rights and the cause of their
new gossa. By this oath of mutual responsibility and
obligation , clans or tribes quickly enlarged their
members, while the weak Oromo or non-Oromo groups
gained both protection and material benefit - material
benefit, because at the time of adoption the clan
contributed whatever was available for the support
of new members. Any property or cattle given to the
adopted members were considered as andhura and therefore
untouchable by others. Andhura means umbilical cord and
in this sense it is a special gift which a father gives
to his son at his birth. This is the only property over
which the son has full authority before the death of his
father. However, in the case of adoption, andhura
symbolized a father-son relationship the clan and its new
members. Thus moggaasa was inspired by political, military,
and economic considerations on both sides. This may explain
why the Oromo assimilated more than they were assimilated
by others. After adoption, the concept of belonging was
extended to include not only the adopted, but also the tribe
or confederacy to which the clan belonged. Through the new
genealogy, the new members now became part of the Oromo
people, counting the ancestors several generations back to
the hypothetical founder of the confederacy.
Dagmawi, tell me if this is not nation formation at its best. Can you
say anything like this about the Nefenya system your ancestors created
and you are now busy defending? Since you said you are a nefxenya from
Arsi, tell me what your grandparents may have told you about the brutal
war they waged when they conquered Arsi in the late 1880s. Did they not
tell you about "Harka Muraa and Harma Muraa Annollee"? Didn't they tell
you that the nefxenyas cut their breasts off from thousands of Arsi women
and hands off from thousands of Arsi men? I am sure they have even if you
do not want to admit. The Oromo people will forgive the crime done
against them but they will never gorget it.
Makobili
gor...@hotmail.com
In article <19980305160...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
> >to conqure the cush people, note, "TO CONQUER THE CUSH PEOPLE".
> >According to their kebra Negast, conquering others was legal until the last
> >day of Haile Selassie and our new boses are now looking for a more working
> >similar legal system . In other words, dictating over others, enslaving,
and
> >colonizing were all legal until very recently, and there are still children
> >of the Neftegna shouting loud and clear in support of this and to return
all
> >these back on the cush people, and others(who only disagree with the
> >Neftegnas with who should lead) are encouraging what is going on
> >in todays ethiopia.
> >Now, you tell me this is the same as my cushite tribe in the past
> >conquering my
> >own in the process of living together. Please, tell us more abou it.
> >I dont want to get hotter before I understand you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
> >>
> >
> >
> >-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> >http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
> >
>
> There should be consistency in one's argument. You cannot argue that the
> European version of African history is false and intended to enslave
Africans,
> as you and others say regarding Oromo history, and use the same Europeans
> version of African history to advance the "Semite/Cushite" theory. The
problem
> is
> no matter which way you argue, if you use consistency, your argument comes
up
> contradicting itself.
>
What contradiction are you talking about? All the contradiction lies in the
way the neftegna and their school presented your semetic/Arabic history and
the way you wrote the cushitic people history. The time is approaching
your mind will be exploding in trying to defend your existence. So far,
what I was trying to point out was the contradictions in your version
and I never presented mine.
Concerning mine, I am not interested in dialogue with you
if you want to know the truth.
The reason is, freedom proceeds from everything. Then, there will be a space
for talking.
Abdirashid A Hussein
In article <makobiliE...@netcom.com> mako...@netcom.com writes:
>Dagmawi (dag...@icfkaiser.com) wrote:
>: Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
Neil jarman wrote and many agree that:
"It is the desires and aspirations of the present that shape our views of
the past, while at the same those present aspirations are partly formed by
our understanding of our past. We use the past by remembering selectively
those events that help to explain or justify what is happening in the
present, a present that can therefore be portrayed as the inevitable and
only outcome of those same events. The changing needs and circumstances of
the present mean that memories are monitored and re-evaluated, and our
understanding of the past is adapted to changeing circumstances. Some
memories will be readily abondoned and forgetten, and some long-ignored
events may in turn be recalled, as history is subject reappraisal".
For Oromians and Ogadenians, trying to sweep their recent past of
subjugation in an attempt to recall a better and more appropriate past that
has been destroyed in the wake of Abyssinian invasion of their lands is a
long over struggle. 'Just as the idea of Stalingrad was swept away by a
previous generation' so are the Oromians, Ogadenians and other Southern
people in what is erroneously called Ethiopia, trying sweep to Addis Ababa
and replace it with Finfine
and other indegeneous cities.
Abdirashid.
--
yoa
Except the quotation from Hassan’s excellent book about the history of
the Oromo, the long awaited response is very much as anticipated --
short in substance, full in sarcasm, and thoroughly dishonest. What is
claimed as a conclusion could only be arrived by way of twisted logic;
what is portrayed as a personal duel between the descendant of the
conquered and that of the conqueror, a snaky astray away from the core
of the issue.
What was the issue? The issue was: are we getting a balanced picture of
the history of the Oromo? Does the portrayal of the Oromo as a people
who were conquered and as a people who were forever at the mercy of
their neighbors does justice to them and to their neighbors? Excerpts
after excerpts from several authors posted here suggest that the Oromos
have actually conquered the region which they now call home as near as
two hundred years ago; that they have waged successful wars against
their neighbors the Amara and the sidama who lost the ownership of the
land. The Sidama and the Amara evidently have managed to halt
the Oromo expansion; but there were many others who were completely
wiped out or to use the preferred term "assimilated". The original
posting on this thread says they were subjugated and sold as slaves.
This response does neither addresses the core issue (are we getting a
balanced picture?), nor attempts a rebuttal of the various excerpts
posted here. Simply it is a sad commentary befitting a political
agitator.
~~Yoda
mako...@netcom.com wrote:
>
> Dagmawi (dag...@icfkaiser.com) wrote:
> : Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
>
> Dagmawi:
>
> There are two things I liked in your original article in this thread.
> The first is your honesty and the other, however odd it may sound, your
> dishonesty. Both have made my response to you much easier than
> you might have thought.
> Basically, your conclusion from the quotations you presented is:
rbo...@hotmail.com
>
> Dear Dagmawi,
>
> Your effort to present a balanced picture of the Oromo Expansion is
> commendable. However, I would like to caution you that the individual with
> whom you are dealing with (Makiavelli -- a would-be Makko Billi) is a fellow
> that is not given to reason but a fanatical hatred of a group of Ethiopians
> he refers to as Abbysinians. I had tried to reason with him a few years
back,
> but gave it up when it became quite clear to me that he was not at all
> interested in pursuing the TRUTH, i.e.,...
This may not necessarily be Makobili's fault. It is conceivable that you
lacked the intellect it takes to reason with a person of his stature or that
you had a wrong and rigid definition of the TRUTH.
Raya
mako...@netcom.com
yoa (y...@bell.net) wrote:
: What was the issue? The issue was: are we getting a balanced picture of
: the history of the Oromo? Does the portrayal of the Oromo as a people
: who were conquered and as a people who were forever at the mercy of
: their neighbors does justice to them and to their neighbors?
Nobody has ever portrayed the Oromo as "a people who were forever at
the mercy of their neighbours." If you have a hidden evidence to the
contrary, bring it out to the public and it will be dealt with as
appropriate. Those who are claiming that "the Oromo people are
portrayed as weak and as a people at the mercy of their neighbours", as
if these claimants care about the Oromo more than the Oromo themselves,
are debating with their own selves and why should anybody interfere with
them?
Makobili
Misgana
This is by far the most pathetic reasoning I have ever heard on
any subject matter. Here is the "champion of colonized peoples"
who justifies and rationalizes the same activities of subjugation, forceful
assimilation, reviving the old conqueror heroes (as his
pen name testifies), practically every single activity he has
condemned in the past, when it comes to his own people. I had
a lot of respect (not admiration) for the author when he was
manipulating and distorting historical facts to serve his purpose.
But when one finally reads what he really believes, it is clear
that he is not honest to himself either.
The issue is not that the Oromo were not victims of aggression
by Menilik or even by Meles today. I have not read anyone
denying the massacres Menilik conducted nor the blatant
persecution of Oromos especially lately in Ethiopia. The issue is not even
about the Oromo's right to self-determination. The
issue is one of presenting a balanced and honest view. To use
an American expression: To Tell The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The
Truth as opposed to just A Truth.
>Subject: Re: Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
>From: mako...@netcom.com
>Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 01:51 EST
>Message-id: <makobiliE...@netcom.com>
mako...@netcom.com
Misgana (mis...@aol.com) wrote:
: The issue is not that the Oromo were not victims of aggression
: by Menilik or even by Meles today. I have not read anyone
: denying the massacres Menilik conducted nor the blatant
: persecution of Oromos especially lately in Ethiopia. The issue is not even
: about the Oromo's right to self-determination.
So long as you admit to these facts, any disagreement you may have with
this writer are wholly and totally inconsequetnial, thus I hereby present
to you an olive branch as a signal that we may be taking a step forward
to solving the outstanding conflict between the Oromo people and the
Ethiopian state.
Makobili
abugeda
Makobili's response just confirms that he is a prisoner of a very specific
past, and a very specific Oromo. Even a discussion of the present has to be
couched in the context of HIS past. No wonder he has to personalize the
events of 100 + years ago by making this a competition between Dagmawi and
himself. If one were to ask him to consider the future, he would reply that
the furture cannot be seen outside of the past. If the past considered is
more than a 100 years old, he thinks it is a bit too stale for his taste. He
knows he has no leg to stand on either way.
He knows also that his view of who the Oromo are will not stand the test of a
true democratic popular voice, thus he must stick to a "liberationist" idelogy
which justifies the use of violence to justify his political views. His Oromo
have to be poor, defenseless victims for his opinions to hold any water. Over
the past few weeks, repeated mention have been made of the central role the
Oromo have played in Ethiopian power circles for centuries, but he has chosen
not to comment on any of that. If one was FOR somebody, one would assume that
one would take every opportunity to publicise the greatness and the heroism of
what one stands for. Interestingly enough, we have learned more about the
Oromo over the past few weeks because of the efforts of those who Makobili has
labeled as "Nefxenya" (whatever that means in this day and age), and not
because of their erstwhile hero and champion.
Makobili, let's face it - you do not stand FOR anybody; you stand AGAINST
somebody. I thought you were like the Rush Limbaugh of this newsgroup (high
on entertainment value, but full of misleading statements, equivocations,
half-truths and blatant lies) but I think Rush Limbaugh at least stands for
something.
BTW: I am now confused about the definition of "Nefxenya". I thought it
related to a group of people about a hundred years ago, but I think today it
has taken a whole new meaning as being anyone on opposite sides to Makobili.
In his honor, I have compiled this short list of ....
"...You must be a Neftenya If...".
1. You arrive at a four way stop-sign and you do not give Makobili the proper
right-of-way (even though you may be there first)
2. You have been standing in line to pay for your groceries and Makobili comes
behind you and insists that he must pay before you as the Oromiya train will
leave without him if he is delayed, and you refuse.
3. You just checked-out a library book about the wonders of the African
continent for your child, and Makobili insists the book must be returned as it
does not say anything about the evils of the Abyssinians and you tell him to
get lost.
4. You treat Makobili to a home brewed cup of coffee, and you tell him it came
from Jimma - Ethiopia as opposed to saying from Oromiya - thereby making him
go into paroxysms of chocking.
5. ... etc...
abugeda
Misgana
>Subject: Re: Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
>From: mako...@netcom.com
>Date: Sat, Mar 7, 1998 12:32 EST
>Message-id: <makobiliE...@netcom.com>
Makobili: I had continually insisted that those were not
the issues. What I challenged you with are the distortions,
incomplete pictures and sometimes blatant lies that you
posted. How could it be inconsequential that you defame
and malign other peoples and entities and stir emotions on
all sides which cannot be done if the correct and honest
information is presented? Anyhow, I accept the olive branch.
I actually disliked posting "The Oromo did this or that bad
thing" kinds of quotations but there was no other way to
counter what I believed were malicious articles of similar
nature. I stress "malicious" because I am not asking that
nothing bad be written about anyone. I am asking not to
make any statement out of context - the context of the
intricate relationship of the various people in Ethiopia. If,
within that context, you prove to me anything, I will not
only not challenge you but I will join you.
mako...@netcom.com
abugeda (abu...@cris.com) wrote:
: Makobili's response just confirms that he is a prisoner of a very specific
: past, and a very specific Oromo. Even a discussion of the present has to be
: couched in the context of HIS past. No wonder he has to personalize the
: events of 100 + years ago by making this a competition between Dagmawi and
: himself.
The question fo who the contending parties are as important as what is
being contested. The form and content of a debate about World War II
between Adolf Hitler and FDR would be quite different from a debate about
the same subject between two individuals in a college debating club.
Thus, it is was necessary to highlight that the excessively vocal mouths
in this newsgroup, who portray themselves as more concerned about the
Oromo more than the Oromo themselves, are infact progenies of Nefxenya
colonists and have been benefitting from the colonial system. If this
offended you, and it appears it did, you should have kept your mouth shut
in the first place.
: He knows also that his view of who the Oromo are will not stand the test of a
: true democratic popular voice, thus he must stick to a "liberationist" idelogy
: which justifies the use of violence to justify his political views.
Talk is cheap, and an advocate for the maintainance of a colonial people
talking about democracy is oxymoronic. It is the lberationist ideology
you are attempting to ridicule that has freed millinons from colonial rule
and no power on earth can prevent from beign used in the case of the
conflict between the Oromo people and the Ethiopian state. Democracy and
liberationist ideology are inseparable linked and you cannot understand
this because the only thing you know about democracy is what you read in
expatriate habesha magazines.
: His Oromo have to be poor, defenseless victims for his opinions to hold
: any water.
That is your Oromo, not mine. It was your father and grandfather who
made the poor Oromo to be poor and deffensless. With all certainity I
can say while you were going to school or were growing up many Oromo
children your own age were working on your parent land at gun point.
Thus the poor and defenseless Oromo are your making, but alas your day is
gone here in America you too have to work to make a living, unless you have
chosen to be on welfare.
: Interestingly enough, we have learned more about the
: Oromo over the past few weeks because of the efforts of those who Makobili has
: labeled as "Nefxenya" (whatever that means in this day and age), and not
: because of their erstwhile hero and champion.
It has never been Makobili's intention to teach people like you
anything through discussion. He knows pretty well discussion and
rational dialogue are incompatible with your culture and background, but
if but if you have learnt anything about the Oromo, from Makobili or a
third party, it is all the same. I seriously doubt you can learn at all!
Till next time,
Makobili
mako...@netcom.com
Misgana (mis...@aol.com) wrote:
: >
: >: The issue is not that the Oromo were not victims of aggression
: >: by Menilik or even by Meles today. I have not read anyone
: >: denying the massacres Menilik conducted nor the blatant
: >: persecution of Oromos especially lately in Ethiopia. The issue is not even
: >: about the Oromo's right to self-determination.
: >
: >So long as you admit to these facts, any disagreement you may have with
: >this writer are wholly and totally inconsequetnial, thus I hereby present
: >to you an olive branch as a signal that we may be taking a step forward
: >Ethiopian state.
: >
: >Makobili
: >
: >
: Makobili: I had continually insisted that those were not
: the issues. What I challenged you with are the distortions,
: incomplete pictures and sometimes blatant lies that you
: posted.
If you had infact agreed to the fact of Abyssinian agression against the
Oromo starting from Menelik and now ongoing by Meles Zenawi, if you have
indeed aknowledged the fact of Oromo massacre by Menelik in the past and
Meles Zenawi at the present, and if you have not contested the right of
the Oromo to self-determination as warranted by the UN Charter, I am sory
I had missed your relevant posts and now the misunderstanding is
resolved.
: How could it be inconsequential that you defame
: and malign other peoples and entities and stir emotions on
: all sides which cannot be done if the correct and honest
: information is presented?
I have never defamed or maligned any peoples and the only entity I have
been writing about is the Ethiopian state and the purpose has been to
debunk the age old myth about it and expose its true self.
: Anyhow, I accept the olive branch.
: I actually disliked posting "The Oromo did this or that bad
: thing" kinds of quotations but there was no other way to
: counter what I believed were malicious articles of similar
: nature.
I saw nothing wrong in you quoting whoever and whatever you want but at
the same time I did not see any to be serious enough to warrante my
response. My offer to you of an olive branch should not be
misinterpreted to mean that I had an issue with what you posted. Keep on
quoting whatever you like and I would do likewise.
Makobili
rbo...@hotmail.com
It looks that Makobili has hit some raw nerve in his reply to Dagmawi
and some in this group found it too painful to tolerate. When one is
used to comfort in a world of lies, it is understandable that the
slightest glimpse of the truth hurts deep into ones bones.
Raya
In article <35019088...@cris.com>,
abugeda <abu...@cris.com> wrote:
>
> Makobili's response just confirms that he is a prisoner of a very specific
> past, and a very specific Oromo.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Dagmawi
Note - For obvious reasons, it is inappropriate to use the name
‘makobili’, so below I am using the name Solomon which the former
‘makobili’ used in a posting several weeks ago]
Dear readers:
Every person has a choice of discussing issues based on honesty and
maturity or following the low road of ethnic slander and promotion of
ethnic hatred. Solomon chose the low road, and his status sinks
correspondingly.
One can argue for ethnic nationalism, independence etc. without
degrading, insulting and slandering other ethnic groups as Solomon has
been doing. In fact, a large proportion of Solomon’s articles are not
even advocating anything. They just simply express ethnic hatred.
About quoting Mohammed Hassen, he can speak for himself. I only quoted
his HISTORICAL writing. His POLITICAL writing that I have read stresses
the need for tolerance and equality among Ethiopia's ethnic groups.
Contrast this with Solomon's apparent position of Oromo Ethnic
Supremacy. Oromo conquering and enslaving is good - it is nation forming
at its best according to Solomon. Atrocities committed by his ethnic
group or his political party are good - atrocities committed by others
are bad.
Well, I have deep respect and appreciation for Oromo history and
culture, and the institutions of gudifecha and mogassa are great, but I
believe each and every ethnic group in Ethiopia deserves respect. Really
it is childlish to say "my ethnic group is better than yours."
Looking back over our history, there are only a few ethnic groups whose
record is clean enough to lecture the rest of us on ethics; on how wars
should have been fought etc. But when a specific incident is recalled
in which my ancestors committed some atrocities I will personally say it
was wrong what they did. Can Solomon do the same? Can he even condemn
the massacres at Bedeno several years ago? Massacres that rhetoric such
as his may have helped incite? Based on his unparalleled record of
hypocrisy on this forum, I think the answer is clear.
ADDITIONAL NOTES
Solomon - Your comments about Wellega at the end of the 19th century
should be directed to the Matcha Oromo ruling family of Moroda Kumsa
(later Dejazmatch Gebre-Egziabeher). If I remember the history
correctly, Menelik did not conquer this area but it was a tributary
ruled by the local Oromo elite. Based on your extensive record of
hypocrisy on this forum I wouldn’t be surprised if your family was among
that ruling elite.
Any comments about the administration of Ethiopia today should be
directed to your Matcha Oromo family friend; Negaso Gidada - President
of Ethiopia. You yourself said you have known him and his extended
family since childhood. Apparently you are better connected to the
corridors of power than anyone else on this forum.
Now concerning Arsi, despite your grotesque exaggerations, the fact is
that my relatives in Arsi are judged by their character. They are viewed
by their neighbours and their community as human beings who are loved,
appreciated and valued according to their deeds. My uncle is respected
for his work, his farming skills, for raising nine children and for
sending them all to school. My cousin’s daughter, who was in the 4th
grade when I visited, is more fluent in Oromo writing than in the
Amharic alphabet. The community is multi-ethnic and multi-religious; a
sense of respect and a desire for ethnic harmony prevails.
Sorry Solomon, but Arsi is not going to be fertile territory for your
messages of hate. Manipulating history to further the politics of
ethnic hatred is your specialty, but most people know that it is wrong
to do that.
The Muslim Arsi Oromo (half of whom were assimilated from the Hadiya
ethnic group during the Oromo conquest of this area) live under the same
conditions as the more recent Christian Shoa Amhara and Christian Shoa
Oromo. Although your incitements to hatred may find a few takers, the
major fault line is religious, not ethnic.
Solomon - As a Matcha Oromo from Wellega, it is highly likely that your
family tree includes Gurages, Hadiyas and Amharas, in addition to
Oromos. I am pretty sure this is the case because of the route to
Wellega from Borana during the Oromo expansion. So, even if you can’t
show respect to other ethnic groups you should at least respect your
ancestors.
- Dagmawi
PS For clarity, I believe the name ‘makobili’ is inappropriate for
Solomon for 2 reasons:
1) The sheer hypocrisy of it, as amply demostrated by his previous
articles
2) The distasteful pretension to compare himself to a figure as great
as the real Makko Billi.
yoa
Here is the "hidden evidence" -- the only writer on this forum who has
been portraying the Oromo as such is mako...@netcom.com. Now, a word
of caution: before you start dealing with him you should know about his
intention. Beware! Here is a direct qoute:
"It has never been Makobili's intention to teach people like you
anything through discussion. He knows pretty well discussion and
rational dialogue are incompatible with your culture and background, but
if but if you have learnt anything about the Oromo, from Makobili or a
third party, it is all the same. I seriously doubt you can learn at
all!"
~~yoda
mako...@netcom.com wrote:
>
> yoa (y...@bell.net) wrote:
>
> : What was the issue? The issue was: are we getting a balanced picture of
> : the history of the Oromo? Does the portrayal of the Oromo as a people
> : who were conquered and as a people who were forever at the mercy of
> : their neighbors does justice to them and to their neighbors?
>
> Nobody has ever portrayed the Oromo as "a people who were forever at
> the mercy of their neighbours." If you have a hidden evidence to the
> contrary, bring it out to the public and it will be dealt with as
> appropriate. Those who are claiming that "the Oromo people are
> portrayed as weak and as a people at the mercy of their neighbours", as
> if these claimants care about the Oromo more than the Oromo themselves,
yoa
Oh, man! this is good. I will state with out any hesitation that "Raya"
is Mako...@netcom.com himself. May be everyone of us here open another
hotmail.com account, which is free, and start glorifying our stature and
intellect; post one article using one address and defend it using
another. This is a cheap tactic and a sign of a deranged mind. Advise:
take a vacation
"It is conceivable that you lacked the intellect it takes to reason with
a person of his stature or that you had a wrong and rigid definition of
the TRUTH"
....mako...@netcom.com praising himself ........
~~Yoda
rbo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> In article <6di7uc$eot$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> ense...@juno.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Dear Dagmawi,
> >
> > Your effort to present a balanced picture of the Oromo Expansion is
> > commendable. However, I would like to caution you that the individual with
> > whom you are dealing with (Makiavelli -- a would-be Makko Billi) is a fellow
> > that is not given to reason but a fanatical hatred of a group of Ethiopians
> > he refers to as Abbysinians. I had tried to reason with him a few years
> back,
> > but gave it up when it became quite clear to me that he was not at all
> > interested in pursuing the TRUTH, i.e.,...
>
> This may not necessarily be Makobili's fault. It is conceivable that you
> lacked the intellect it takes to reason with a person of his stature or that
> you had a wrong and rigid definition of the TRUTH.
>
> Raya
>
mako...@netcom.com
yoa (y...@bell.net) wrote:
: "It has never been Makobili's intention to teach people like you
: anything through discussion. He knows pretty well discussion and
: rational dialogue are incompatible with your culture and background, but
: if but if you have learnt anything about the Oromo, from Makobili or a
: third party, it is all the same. I seriously doubt you can learn at
: all!"
(signed)
Makobili
You have my signature for the second time. You may quote me and use it
for the rest of your life.
Makobili
Abdirashid A Hussein
In article <350225...@icfkaiser.com> dag...@icfkaiser.com writes:
When a colonizer's idealogical base is challenged and eventually uprooted,
it becomes like a 'humbo', that can easily be blown away by the slightest
gush of wind. This is exactly what is happening with the Abyssinians now.
Trying to cluch every foam ridding in the river! This is exactly what the
famed Ogadenian Writer, Nurudiin Farah (Just won the 2nd most literary
award after the Noble Prize) wrote in his latest work : The Bastards of the
Empire". Read it in the "Transsition" Journal.
Abdi.
--
Abdirashid A Hussein
>
>: Makobili's response just confirms that he is a prisoner of a very specific
>: couched in the context of HIS past. No wonder he has to personalize the
>: events of 100 + years ago by making this a competition between Dagmawi and
>: himself.
The Visbility of Memory, (P.12)
Neil Jarman.
The close link between the vissual senses and memory were recognized in some
of the earliest existing writings on mnemonics. Cicero, writing in the first
century BC, argued that in order to develop a good memory the individual
must construct a mental geography of places, or building; facts or ideas
that must be remembered can then be converted into images and stored within
this mental architecture. Ideally a memorized map or space should be based
on a REAL place, well known to the individual; but the stored images need
not be literal representations of the things to be remembered-they can
simply be arbitrary and personal signifiers. As well as asserting that
images were the most reliable medium for retaining memories, cicero also
regarded sight as the keenest of all senses, and he argued that things that
have actually been seen are more 'easily retained in the mind' than
perceptions recieved by the ears or by reflection' (quoted in Harwood 1976.
p.793).
For millions of Ogadenians, Oromians and other Southern poepls, they have
seen the exploitative, brutalized relations that have existed over the past
few couple of years the nature of the ruthless Abyssinian empire state that
has erroneously called itself ETHIOPIA TIGDEMA.
Abdi.
--
abugeda
I wish to thank Makobili for offering us yet another scheme. To wit, Makobili has found out ways of tracing genealogy through statements made on public fora. Leaving the openly bigoted last paragraph in this post aside, it is interesting that he makes the following statements without really offering any proof to back it up. I present
EXHIBIT A:
"mako...@netcom.com wrote:
Thus, it is was necessary to highlight that the excessively vocal mouths
in this newsgroup, who portray themselves as more concerned about the
Oromo more than the Oromo themselves, are infact progenies of Nefxenya
colonists and have been benefitting from the colonial system.
EXHIBIT B:"... It was your father and grandfather who made the poor Oromo
to be poor and defenseless. With all certainity I
can say while you were going to school or were growing up many Oromo
children your own age were working on your parent land at gun point...."
The conclusion: anyone not subscribing to makobili's notion is a Neftenya. These statements are breathtaking in their certainty. No "..most probably are..", or "...may be...", or "...highly possible..." This leads me to the inescapable conclusion: There is one and only one test for being a Neftenya - and if you are in disagreement with makobili you are one.
2. On Liberation and Democracy
Talk is cheap, and an advocate for the maintainance of a colonial people
talking about democracy is oxymoronic. It is the lberationist ideology
you are attempting to ridicule that has freed millinons from colonial rule
and no power on earth can prevent from beign used in the case of the
conflict between the Oromo people and the Ethiopian state. Democracy and
liberationist ideology are inseparable linked and you cannot understand
this because the only thing you know about democracy is what you read in
expatriate habesha magazines.
First, some definitions:
From Webster's Dictionary:
DEMOCRACY:
"Democracy \De*moc"ra*cy\, n.; pl. Democracies. [F. d['e]mocratie,
fr. Gr. dhmokrati`a; dh^mos the people + kratei^n to be
strong, to rule, kra`tos strength.]
1. Government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme
power is retained and directly exercised by the people.
2. Government by popular representation; a form of government in which
the supreme power is retained by the people, but is
indirectly exercised through a system of representation and delegated
authority periodically renewed; a constitutional representative
government; a republic. "
LIBERATE:
" Liberate \Lib"er*ate\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Liberated; p. pr. &
vb. n. Liberating.] [L. liberatus, p. p. of liberare to free, fr. liber
free.
See {Liberal}, a., and cf. {Deliver}.] To release from restraint or
bondage; to set at liberty; to free; to manumit; to disengage; as,
to liberate a slave or prisoner; to liberate the mind from prejudice;
to liberate gases. "
IDEOLOGY:
"ideology n 1: an orientation that characterizes the thinking of a
group or nation [syn: {political orientation}, {political theory}] 2:
imaginary or visionary theorization "
It is obvious from these definitions that Democracy is one thing and "liberationist ideology" is something else. I fear in the current context Democracy is promised as the raison d'etre of the liberationist ideology, but later to be withdrawn when the powers that be find out they will not stay permanently in power. Perfect example; the patron saint of the OLF himself - Issayas Afewerqi. Also, the level of repression suffered by the people of Tigray. (TPLF did Liberate the Tigrayan people from the Dergue only into it's own thorny arms) Additional examples; Cambodia and it's continuing saga, Nigeria under the various Military leaders, the Chinese Communist Party under Mao, Russia under Lenin, etc...
If anything, it is clear that liberationist ideology only strengthens those who ultimately believe in force, as opposed to dialogue and the popular will. No one I know of has had the courage to disband a liberationist force after it's goals have been attained. Most of the time this same force was used consistently against the "liberatees" - usually very soon after liberation. One is reminded of "Animal Farm" by George Orwell about how the liberators are soon the new masters.
Makobili, to me, right now, the choice is clear. If democracy is what you would like to see, then you can work with those who are actively campaigning to implement the rule of law established through the popular will in Ethiopia. If this indeed comes to pass, then everyone will be free to express their wishes and follow through accordingly. If Democracy is not your primary concern, then I and everyone in this ng will take your expression of liberationist ideology as a deadly serious threat issued against those whom you have labeled as "Neftenya and their descendants" (which oddly enough is a quickly growing list)
And finally, about this paragraph...
It has never been Makobili's intention to teach people like you
anything through discussion. He knows pretty well discussion and
rational dialogue are incompatible with your culture and background, but
if but if you have learnt anything about the Oromo, from Makobili or a
third party, it is all the same. I seriously doubt you can learn at all!
Deconstruction of this paragraph is perhaps the best part of this postTill next time,
Makobili
a) " It has never been Makobili's intention to teach people like you
anything through discussion."
As I stated earlier, the people "like me" are supposedly the Neftenya
and their descendants - which by the way does not even come near to describing
me. Also, he has no intention of teaching anybody, as he is too busy working
on propaganda. And thirdly if he does any teaching, he will only do it
in a method other than "...through discussion..." (I wonder what that could
be...?)
b) " He knows pretty well discussion and rational dialogue are incompatible
with your culture and background,...."
Leaving aside that he has no idea about abugeda's culture and
background, he somehow has come upon a novel theory about cultures. He
has discovered that some cultures are incapable of "...discussion and rational
dialogue..." How this was determined, we do not know; nor whether this
theory has been critiqued by those who make it their life's work to study
these things; nor if this effect has been demonstrated in other "...cultures
and backgrounds..."
c) " I seriously doubt you can learn at all! "
I leave that to others to judge...
And now, I want to go and "liberate" some dinner for myself - if you don't mind...
abugeda
P.S. It's always fun when you are around, Makobili!
abugeda
Dear Raya...
rbo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> It looks that Makobili has hit some raw nerve in his reply to Dagmawi
> and some in this group found it too painful to tolerate. When one is
> used to comfort in a world of lies, it is understandable that the
> slightest glimpse of the truth hurts deep into ones bones.
>
> Raya
>
I can assure you that my responses to makobili in this thread is because I find
Makobili to be the most entertainig guy around. Au contraire, if makobili is
indeed an educator and he saw one of his students give the reply he gave to
Dagmawi's post as a well structured set of ideas on a paper, his career would be
questioned if he gave the said student anything other than an "F". But since he
enlivens our days, we forgive him, and wish him - well, whatever he deserves.
Also, to his credit, he is at least not of the same caliber as those who
designate entire people as "..cannibals..." and yet insist it is a serious
discourse. With makobili, we can at least play pretend.
have a lovely day,
abugeda
> In article <35019088...@cris.com>,
> abugeda <abu...@cris.com> wrote:
> >
> > Makobili's response just confirms that he is a prisoner of a very specific
> > past, and a very specific Oromo.
>
mako...@netcom.com
Abdirashid A Hussein (ahus...@osf1.gmu.edu) wrote:
: Abdi.
Abdi,
Thanks for this information. We have read a lot from Abyssinian
Fundamentalists (borrowing a term coined by Alex De Waal of Human
Rights-Africa) during the last week and for a change it would be nice to
read what Mr. Farah has to say. I will go check it out.
Makobili
YESHI22
yoa <y...@bell.net> writes:
>Date: Sun, Mar 8, 1998 09:37 EST
>Message-id: <3502AD...@bell.net>
>
>Oh, man! this is good. I will state with out any hesitation that "Raya"
>is Mako...@netcom.com himself. May be everyone of us here open another
>hotmail.com account, which is free, and start glorifying our stature and
>intellect; post one article using one address and defend it using
>another. This is a cheap tactic and a sign of a deranged mind. Advise:
>take a vacation
>
>"It is conceivable that you lacked the intellect it takes to reason with
>a person of his stature or that you had a wrong and rigid definition of
>the TRUTH"
> ....mako...@netcom.com praising himself ........
>~~Yoda
I don't think your findings matter. Even if it's true, it isn't contradictory
to
Makobili's past or present positions in this NG.. The same with the signature
statement you've an issue with before this, he's addressing the ones he labels
Neftegnas. I don't see it as a blanket statement. You may have taken it out of
context and looking at it differently. Let us stick to the issues my friend!
I've
found the discussions on this thread extra-ordinary! I commend all of you for
such well thought presentations.
Regards.
>
>
>
>rbo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> In article <6di7uc$eot$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
>> ense...@juno.com wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Dear Dagmawi,
>> >
>> > Your effort to present a balanced picture of the Oromo Expansion is
>> > commendable. However, I would like to caution you that the individual
>with
>> > whom you are dealing with (Makiavelli -- a would-be Makko Billi) is a
>fellow
>> > that is not given to reason but a fanatical hatred of a group of
>Ethiopians
>> > he refers to as Abbysinians. I had tried to reason with him a few years
>> back,
>> > but gave it up when it became quite clear to me that he was not at all
>> > interested in pursuing the TRUTH, i.e.,...
>>
>> This may not necessarily be Makobili's fault. It is conceivable that you
>> lacked the intellect it takes to reason with a person of his stature or
>that
>> you had a wrong and rigid definition of the TRUTH.
>>
>> Raya
>>
gor...@hotmail.com
In article <6dv507$6...@portal.gmu.edu>,
ahus...@osf1.gmu.edu (Abdirashid A Hussein) wrote:
>
> In article <350225...@icfkaiser.com> dag...@icfkaiser.com writes:
>
> When a colonizer's idealogical base is challenged and eventually uprooted,
> it becomes like a 'humbo', that can easily be blown away by the slightest
> gush of wind. This is exactly what is happening with the Abyssinians now.
> Trying to cluch every foam ridding in the river! This is exactly what the
> famed Ogadenian Writer, Nurudiin Farah (Just won the 2nd most literary
> award after the Noble Prize) wrote in his latest work : The Bastards of the
> Empire". Read it in the "Transsition" Journal.
>
> Abdi.
>
>
Could someone forward the article in that journal? I am very happy
for the success of the Ogadinian Nurudiin Farah. It seems that lots
of writers are in order, to win such prizes, by exposing lies
and proving realities burried for years.Now is a time for
existing realities to be matching with the works of truth
authors, exposing fabricators and liars.
gor...@hotmail.com
In article <34FED532...@cris.com>,
abugeda <abu...@cris.com> wrote:
>
> A Question and a comment.......
>
> gor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > ...In other words, people who crossed sea
> > to conqure the cush people, note, "TO CONQUER THE CUSH PEOPLE".
> > According to their kebra Negast, conquering others was legal until the
last
> > day of Haile Selassie and our new boses are now looking for a more working
> > similar legal system . In other words, dictating over others, enslaving,
and
> > colonizing were all legal until very recently, and there are still
children
> > of the Neftegna shouting loud and clear in support of this and to return
all
> > these back on the cush people, and others(who only disagree with the
> > Neftegnas with who should lead) are encouraging what is going on
> > in todays ethiopia.
> > Now, you tell me this is the same as my cushite tribe in the past
> > conquering my
> > own in the process of living together. Please, tell us more abou it.
> > I dont want to get hotter before I understand you.
> >
>
designation
> "SEMITE" or "CUSHITE" in the Ethiopian context are used to identify and
categorize
> LANGUAGES. I do not think there are any cultural traits that are
exclusively
> CUSHITE or exclusively SEMITE in the Ethiopian context. To talk of us versus
them
> as a Cushite vs Semite dialectic is not only incorrect but also dangerous. I
> challenge anyone to show me a non-language trait that is EXCLUSIVELY Cushite
and
> EXCLUSIVELY Semite.
When it suited you, you called yourself
what seemed appropriate for your, 'semite', "arab", "jew" or whatever.
When it seemed better to you, you have been easily changing it as it
suited you.
This has been happening(e.g. when Meles wanted help from Lybia and Egypt,
identity was changed from Jew to Arab).
And it is very much related to your 'culture' we have been
discussing about. A life full of deception and lie followed by an identity
crisis! But there is no reason of
being dangerous to be identified as cushite for cushite, although, as you
predicted, may be dangerous for you (the non repenting Neftegnas). For the 25
million indegeneous Oromos, and the rest of southern ethiopians, that is the
right
to identify themselves and that is the only way to
get out of the bondages of slavery and colonialism withen a short
period of time, and that will be the right factor for their future
freedom and unity, and success against their commen enemys..
And for the formation of a united horn, then a united states of Africa.
>
> 2. My comment concerns Ali Mazrui's preferred definition of Africa. He
believes it
> is more correct to include the Arab and Jewish middle east as part of
Africa. The
> reasons are geographic, religious and cultural. It does not make sense to
see the
> Arabs of Northern Africa and those of the Middle East as separate entities
but as
> part of the cultural and linguistic continuity of Africa.
I also see no reason if, in the future, Arabs and Jews are included
as part of Africans(If that is possibble). But, that can only happen
with the consent of the concerned people, and not by force one imposes upon
the other. It seems
that you still need more education to understand what freedom mean. In your
case, you have Abyssinia(Gojam, Gonder, North Shoa, Tigray and Eritrea),
which, when measured with the population ratio, a larger part of the
Ethiopian empire. The question in regard to this is, are you ready to
work by yourself or you still need others to work for you? Answer this
and I will reply to your rest.
This definition
would
> also apply to the Falasha of Ethiopia ,the ancient tie between present day
Yemen
> and the Ethiopian highland areas, the Christian heritage of Ethiopia and
> Jerusalem, the Moslem pilgrimage to Mecca.
>
> Lest people forget, the Red Sea is a tiny pond - an almost insignificant
hurdle to
> anyone wishing to cross it to get to the other side. Distance-wise, one
travels
> significantly further from Moyale (at the Southern tip of Ethiopia - which
some
> scholars think is the original home of the Oromo) to the Raya and Azebo
district
> of Tigrai ( which may be the northernmost tip of the Oromo settlement after
their
> expansion) than crossing the Red Sea from Yemen to present day Eritrea.
Also, the
> land trip is infinitely harder as it had to be done through the resistance
of
> countless communities. If we indeed consider the Red Sea not to be there as
a
> strip of water, I think there is the possibility of revolutionizing some
> conceptions of the "Semite - Cushite" issue.
>
> abugeda
YESHI22
gor...@hotmail.com writes:
>Date: Mon, Mar 9, 1998 02:56 EST
>Message-id: <6e079v$1c$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>In article <6dv507$6...@portal.gmu.edu>,
> ahus...@osf1.gmu.edu (Abdirashid A Hussein) wrote:
>>
>> In article <350225...@icfkaiser.com> dag...@icfkaiser.com writes:
>>
>> When a colonizer's idealogical base is challenged and eventually uprooted,
>> it becomes like a 'humbo', that can easily be blown away by the slightest
>> gush of wind. This is exactly what is happening with the Abyssinians now.
>> Trying to cluch every foam ridding in the river! This is exactly what the
>> famed Ogadenian Writer, Nurudiin Farah (Just won the 2nd most literary
>> award after the Noble Prize) wrote in his latest work : The Bastards of the
>> Empire". Read it in the "Transsition" Journal.
>>
>> Abdi.
>>
>> --
>>
>
>Could someone forward the article in that journal? I am very happy
>for the success of the Ogadinian Nurudiin Farah. It seems that lots
>of writers are in order, to win such prizes, by exposing lies
>and proving realities burried for years.Now is a time for
>existing realities to be matching with the works of truth
>authors, exposing fabricators and liars.
>
Who is giving the prizes? Europeans? Make sure you Trust
and Varify! I'll quote you some of what a Brits wrote recently.
>The main reason why the Ethiopian armies won at Adwa was because
>at the hour of need all the different groups forgot their differences and
>fought the greater enemy (at that time Italy) as one army, which was not
>the case else where in Africa. The British often arranged battles in other
>African countries & did not turn up ! just to get warring factions to wipe
>each other out making their job of colonisation that much easier !
>As a non Ethiopian (I am English) I can see that although Ethiopia won at
>Adwa, the 2nd stage of Colonisation is well underway in Ethiopia and must
>be stopped.
>The 2nd Stage of the British Colonisation system was "Divide & Rule"
>A London bookmaker (someone who arranges gambling) at the time was
>offering odds of 90:1 (in favour of Italy) on the out come of the battle.
>Four people collected, the largest payout being 4 pounds 11 shillings &
>six pence.
---
>Martin Jones
mako...@netcom.com
Dagmawi (dag...@icfkaiser.com) wrote:
: Every person has a choice of discussing issues based on honesty and
: maturity or following the low road of ethnic slander and promotion of
: ethnic hatred. Solomon chose the low road, and his status sinks
: correspondingly.
Dagmawi:
When I say or write something that causes the nafxanya camp to get mad, I
know I did the right thing. Thus whatever bad word you say about me does
not worry me at all. My worry would have been if you had a single nice
thing to say about me and thanks God it did not happen.
Now, plese answer the questions after the following quotation from
Mohammed Hassens's writeings:
"After his conquest and occupation of Oromo territory, Menelik gave
both the Oromo people and Oromo land to his armed-settlers, known as
Nafxanya...The armed-settlers dominated the economic resources of Oromo
territory and totally controlled the military, the judiciary, and political
power...The Nafxanya owned Oromo people as they owned cattle and slaves.
How did this happen? Since work on the land was beneath the dignity of
Menelik's unpaid solderis the conquered Oromo were given to the settlers in
liew of salary. The size of the human flocks distributed to the soldeirs as
cattle depended on the density of the population within a given territory. A
RAS or DAJAZMACH received 1000 men, a FITAWRARI 300, a MALKANYA 200, a
Qanyazmach 150, a SHAMBAL 70, a MATOALAQAA 40, and HAMSALAQA 25 and ordinary
soldiers popularly known as NAFXANYA according to their seniority, 20, 15,
or 10."
(Mohammed Hassen, Oromo Commentary, 1991)
Dagmawi, you have told us you "descended from Shoan neftenyas who
settled in Arsi during and shortly after the time of Menelik." Please
answer the following questions for me.
(1) What was the size of the human flock the nefxenyas you descended from
get? Was it a 1000 men or less? What was the number exactly? It is a given
it could not have been less than 10? If they got the smallest number,
did'nt they complaign it was too small for them? You know, family
members do tell each other this kind of things.
(2) Did the nefxenyas you descended from take part in the limb and breast
mutilation "party" at Annollee? Did they tell you how they felt good
about it?
Sincerely,
Makobili
Misgana
>Subject: Re: Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
>Date: Mon, Mar 9, 1998 03:43 EST
>Message-id: <6e0a2j$409$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>When it suited you, you called yourself
>what seemed appropriate for your, 'semite', "arab", "jew" or whatever.
Let me put this subject to rest for you so you will not be
tormented by it forever:
If you believe in scientific studies here is what the pre-eminent
reference book in the world finally admits:
Encyclopaedia Brittanica
Aksum
also spelled AXUM, a powerful kingdom in northern
Ethiopia during the early Christian era. Despite common
belief to the contrary, Aksum did not originate from
one of the Semitic Sabaean kingdoms of southern Arabia
but instead developed as a local power.
If you don't believe in this but sincerely believe in what you
wrote in the past about hearing people's own version of their
own history, show me any proof of Amharas and Tigrayans
own legends that claim that they came from Arabia. Actually isn't the word
"Arab" almost synonymous with "foreigner/enemy"? Don't attempt the Solomon
legend because only the royal family claims that and even they probably know it
is just a legend.The truth is the "Cushitic" Somali, for example, claim to have
come
from Arabia. The "Semitic" Amhara/Tigrayans' basic ethnic component is the
"Cushitic" Agew with whom they are 100% indistinguishable.
One more time, EITHER PUT UP OR SHUT UP. At least
your freind Makobili has understood the need to back up
one's argument with evidence. You are the only one left
with "I said so, so believe me" mentality.
mako...@netcom.com
abugeda (abu...@cris.com) wrote:
: 1) First Things First...
: I wish to thank Makobili for offering us yet another scheme. To wit,
: Makobili has found out ways of tracing genealogy through statements
: made on public fora.
A classic example of the ostrich burying its head in the sand! Disguised
behind a screen name in cyberspace safe-heaven, you think you are the
only one who knows who you are.
: EXHIBIT A:
: "mako...@netcom.com wrote:
(approved)
: EXHIBIT B:
(approved)
: There is one and only one test for being a Neftenya - and if you are in
: disagreement with makobili you are one.
Wrong! To be a nefxenya, the criteria are the following:
(1) You are a direct beneficiary of the Abyssinian colonial
system that was established through the supremacy of the gun
and is alive and kicking just because of that.
(2) You support Abyssinian colonial rule over Oromia, Ogadenia
and southern Ethiopia and you are opposed to the peoples of
this regions determining their destiny through a popular
referenda.
: 2. On Liberation and Democracy
: Contrary to Makobili's assertion that "liberationist ideology" and
: "Democracy" are "..inseparably linked...", I would like to say that
: that is not so, and that History : is full of evidences..
: First, some definitions:
: From Webster's Dictionary:
I should have said your primary source of political theory is the
infallible Webster's Dictionary and not Habesha magazines.
Makobili
Abdirashid A Hussein
>Could someone forward the article in that journal? I am very happy
>for the success of the Ogadinian Nurudiin Farah. It seems that lots
>of writers are in order, to win such prizes, by exposing lies
>and proving realities burried for years.Now is a time for
>existing realities to be matching with the works of truth
>authors, exposing fabricators and liars.
>
I will send you a hard copy of it. I will also write a serialization of it
ASAP. God-Willing. Stay tuned.
Abdi.
--
yoa
You were supposed to address this to your imaginary friend, makobili,
not to me. Now, unless you insist I should keep it, this statement is
going into the garbage bin. Makobili was utterly drunk when he wrote
it.
~~ Yoda
mako...@netcom.com wrote:
>
> yoa (y...@bell.net) wrote:
>
> : "It has never been Makobili's intention to teach people like you
> : anything through discussion. He knows pretty well discussion and
> : rational dialogue are incompatible with your culture and background, but
> : if but if you have learnt anything about the Oromo, from Makobili or a
> : third party, it is all the same. I seriously doubt you can learn at
> : all!"
>
abugeda
I could kiss you, you know. You never let me down. When the going goes rough,
makobili resorts to classic makobili dodges.
Classic Makobili Dodge One.
mako...@netcom.com wrote:
> A classic example of the ostrich burying its head in the sand! Disguised
> behind a screen name in cyberspace safe-heaven, you think you are the
> only one who knows who you are.
Thank you for confirming my statement. I challenged you to indicate what
evidence you have to label others as "Neftenya" and accuse them of having
gone to school while "...Oromo children were working on your land at
gunpoint..." and as I suspected you had none, nada, zilch, zero. But instead
of admitting that you do not, you blame the internet for hiding the truth
from you. I can assure you that I really don't need to hide behind anything,
but my identity is irrelevant to the ideas I wish to debate. If you send me
your address I will send you a nice current picture of myself you can put on
your TV and glower at - if you like...
Classic Dodge Two - Escape into an undefined phrase.I must commend you on
putting together the first statement that may be critiqued. I wish you would
only elaborate a little bit more on the term "Abyssinian Colonial System".
> : There is one and only one test for being a Neftenya - and if you are in
> : disagreement with makobili you are one.
>
> Wrong! To be a nefxenya, the criteria are the following:
>
> (1) You are a direct beneficiary of the Abyssinian colonial
> system that was established through the supremacy of the gun
> and is alive and kicking just because of that. ...
As far as the "...beneficiaries..." definition goes, I challenge you to show
me a specific segment of Ethiopian population that is qualitatively better
off than others. And I challenge you to especially show me this evidence for
the Amhara or Tigray - the ones that supposedly benefitted the most out of
such a system. (I challenge this definition too - but this may be too much
for you)
As far as your accusation that I and others on this forum are "beneficiaries"
of the said "...system...", I will only state here that I am an Ethiopian
who recognizes that political forces in my country's history have used the
means at hand to expand their territories and acquire resources. In this
definition I am limited neither in space, nor in time. I am a beneficiary of
the Oromo expansion, as well as Menelik's expansion and Ahmed (Gragn/Gurey)'s
expansion. I recognize them for what they were, and I choose to move on, I
have tomorrow to think of. Insofar as the Ethiopian State has benefitted it's
citizens, I have benefitted. And so have you - did you not get a chance to
pursue higher education at Ethiopian government expense - a benefit millions
of "neftenyas" did not even dream of having?
> (2)You support Abyssinian colonial rule over Oromia, Ogadenia and
> southern Ethiopia and you are opposed to the peoples of
> this regions determining their destiny through a popular referenda."
As far as this statement is concerned,
a) I doubt if there are any who support Abyssinian colonial rule over... for
the simple fact that such a thing DOES NOT and DID NOT exist. You have the
burden of explaining what you mean by the phrase "Abyssinian Colonial Rule"b)
I am not "...opposed to the peoples .... determining their destiny through a
popular referanda..." and I challenge you to show me anyone who does. BUT, I
do not wish to see the "...popular referenda..." made into a cruel joke a la
EPLF (I DID learn something you know!) where it is a device used by those
bearing arms to hoodwink natives into surrendering their rights to yet
another armed gang, and the foreigners into thinking that they have done
good. Absent a working, stable democratic system, such a statement is almost
a guarantee for the replacement of one repressive system by another. So the
issue remains - DEMOCRACY OR LIBERATIONISM?
Classic Dodge Three
Again, no response to the stated question - just a sarcastic running away...
> : 2. On Liberation and Democracy
>
> : Contrary to Makobili's assertion that "liberationist ideology" and
> : "Democracy" are "..inseparably linked...", I would like to say that
> : that is not so, and that History : is full of evidences..
>
> : First, some definitions:
>
> : From Webster's Dictionary:
>
> I should have said your primary source of political theory is the
> infallible Webster's Dictionary and not Habesha magazines.
>
> Makobili
In view of the fact that I have not seen a single statement indicating that
you are interested in learning anything or at least engaging in the give or
take of dialogue in this forum, forgive me for assuming that you were a
little intellectually challenged and I had to use some basic sources to pass
my point across. I will henceforth assume that you are not a person who is
interested in learning or discussing anything, but a tape-recorder set on
auto-response to issue statements identical in form, content, and vocabulary
at all times.
I have put some question to you, but I can almost guarantee your response -
some sarcastic statement to the effect that you do not wish to waste your
time debating with neftenyas....
Do what you do best - run away, makobili, run away!
abugeda
ZFanta
In <Message-id: <makobiliE...@netcom.com>>
<mako...@netcom.com> wrote:
<Deres T Tegenaw (teg...@acsu.buffalo.edu)> wrote:
>>" Today's posting is the proclamation by Emperor Menelik to abolish slave
trade."<<
<mako...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>Readers unaware that Emperor Menelik himslef was the richest slave owner have
to read what Mohammed Hassen, a distinguished Oromo scholar has to say on the
subject.
"Menelik himself was perhaps the greatest benefactor
of the slave trade. While he was the King of Showa (1965-1889)
this Amhara Christian King was collecting a tax of 2 or 3 dollars
per head of slaves sold in the slave market of Rogge in his
kingdom."
>>...some of his own soldeirs were slavers who depopulated a number of areas in
the conquered territories. While passing a number of proclamations purporting
to abolish the slave trade,
ironically Menelik and his wife were the richest slave owners in
the whole of Africa, and perhaps in the whole world, possessing
70,000 slaves at the beginning of this century. All of his nobles
military commanders, governors, and important government
officials owned slaves as they owned cattle. In the words of
a historian: "Menelik maintained slavery in the colonies as a
means of making the conquered subjects pay by their labour all
the expenses of his wars of agression against them."
(Mohammed Hassen, THE OROMO COMMENTARY, Nos 2&3, 1991). Makobili<<
I once referred to Makobili as one of the great minds. My bold portrayal of
Makobili's intellect had surprised a great many people, among them my good
sister Yeshi22. I felt I was right as I do now, that Makobili was an
academician and an educator. But those who seemed to know Makobili's wisdom
and political missions far better than I did felt that Makobili was not a high
thinker or a great mind as he was labeled. Now, who was right: those who
identified his abstract political philosophy correctly or one who portrayed the
academic credentials of a fellow Ethiopian? No one would fail to guess the
correct answer.
Makobili is an educated person who deserves recognition for his unique
thinking. Makobili has advanced a new thinking in a fashionable way. This is an
age where there are many new discoveries and also failures wherever there have
been quests and search for truth. Makobili's discovery or failures, where there
are, are the out come of his quest for truth. He has envisaged a new light
which he aspired to discover in a house that is twice brighter than the
outside. The history of the Oromo people per Makobili's interpretation is not
much of a cultural research and analyses, but rather a personal view, which has
concentrated on the internal conflicts of then feudal society. Makobili has
written rather apishly, but some how romantically when needed, and with bitter
testaments when it suits the objectives. It is this style which has attracted
many angry, better say, hungry minds, who are equally eager to find the truth
or the simple reason by which to dismiss and discard the absurdity of his
interpretations. I know this apocryphal will once again spoil the mood of many
brothers and sisters who have already scored points on the matters. Here
again, we better keep in mind that we should lose no energy over the study of
Makobili's sociological thinking as if it matters that every oddity should fit
the framework of a PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY, our final subject, I hope.
Let us examine the lessons we learned thus far. A history is a cumulative image
or characteristics of a society. Makobili's has given us a new approach and
method how to reinterpret the past events. According to Makobili, black can be
white and vise versa. This concept is taken from the belief that "beauty is in
the eyes of the beholder". Another analogy: if ditches were the inventions of
flood, Makobilit can reestablish the fact that they were formed by earthquake.
Similarly, if a devastation of a people were caused by a famine, makobili can
make them appear to be consequences of war. If it were Aste Theowodros who
abolished slavery in Ethiopia, Makobili would rewrite the history and make it
appear that it was Abraham Lincoln. Makobili is not the father nor the mother
of this peculiar politics eventhough he may well be its practitioner. Who
claims now thet Makobili is not an educator who helped us see things much
better than we did before the advent of "black colonialism?" Has Makobili not
been for the common good?
Allow me to bring the following points to your attention. There are taken from
(Mohammed Hassen, THE OROMO COMMENTARY, Nos 2&3, 1991) above.
"...some of his own soldiers were slaves"
"ů.while passing a number of proclamations purporting to abolish the slave
tradeů"
In the days of Atse Minilik, even today for that matter, a soldier was a
dignified profession who besides the social status he acquired by being a
soldier, was also amply paid for his services to his country. A soldier is not
a slave but a respected citizen. Atse Minilik had 50,000 soldiers paid and
compensated and treated like soldiers and perhaps much better than the coffee
harvesters in the south at this very moment in Ethiopia. Aste Minilik and
Abraham Lincoln did what Atse Theowodros did: abolish slave trade. Thanks to
Atse Minilik; it was he who discouraged the slave trade by intercepting and
blocking the mass slave flow. One effective way was enlisting the slaves into
the national army, giving them land and salary and training them how to be a
soldier to protect themselves and their country. These two giant kings had
saved many Ethiopians from the horrors of slavery. As for the year 1991, it is
remembered for many notorious and outrageous distortions. Makobili's universe
of life and politics is found in the writings of Mohammed Hassen.
Finally, when the Europeans colonized Africa except Ethiopia and Liberia, it
was whites subjugating blacks. I guess Makobili calls the Europeans: 'White
Colonials". Makobili has coined a new term or vocabulary: 'Black Colonials".
Who were the white people colonized by the black people?
Can some one compare and contrast Feudalism vs. Colonialism in the context of
Ethiopia?
ZFanta.
mako...@netcom.com
abugeda (abu...@cris.com) wrote:
> I could kiss you, you know.
Don't try even in your dreams! I am straight old-fashioned kind of
guy unavailable for that kind of thing. Probably you should
visit Castro Street, in San Francisco, California.
> If you send me your address I will send you a nice current picture of
> myself you can put on your TV and glower at - if you like...
Let me alone, pleeeease! This kind of thing constitutes sexual
harrassment, in case you do not know.
>As far as the "...beneficiaries..." definition goes, I challenge you to show
>me a specific segment of Ethiopian population that is qualitatively better
>off than others. And I challenge you to especially show me this evidence for
>the Amhara or Tigray - the ones that supposedly benefitted the most out of
>such a system.
There are somethings you just do not attempt to do, and here are some
examples:
(1) Thou shalt not try to grow a plant on a rock.
(2) Thou shalt not yell to the deaf and assume s/he has
heard you.
(3) Thou shalt not not try to cure the blind by pulling
the eyelids apart.
(4) Thou shalt not waste your time trying to teach an
Abyssinian the suffering Abyssinian rule has caused
the Oromo, the Ogadeni and other peoples in the
Ethiopian empire. They will tell you these peoples
were/are enjoying the treatment.
Makobili
yoa
mako...@netcom.com wrote:
> guy unavailable for that kind of thing. Probably you should
> visit Castro Street, in San Francisco, California.
Sarcasm! Sarcasm! You are certainly capable of saying anything; but
then it is very appropriate coming from you. You wrote on this NG that
you live in Palo Alto, California; 30 miles South of SanFrancisco? Now,
now, how many trips have you made to Castro Street to recommend it to
anyone. Sarcasm bites too! Insulting and flaming people is easy, but
I doubt it if it gets you any respect.
.....garbage deleted.....
>
.....more garbage deleted.....
>
> (4) Thou shalt not waste your time trying to teach an
> Abyssinian the suffering Abyssinian rule has caused
> the Oromo, the Ogadeni and other peoples in the
> Ethiopian empire. They will tell you these peoples
> were/are enjoying the treatment.
Again, another statement written while intoxicated. You have
made a correction to it when you sobered up later. But, this
is not the first time. you have said this many, many times.
~~Yoda
Dagmawi
Solomon -
At the beginnning of this thread we saw the hypocrisy of yourself taking
the name of “Makko Billi” - an Oromo neftenya who maintained an
oppressive system (including slavery) against a servile gabbaro
population. But studying history in its true context to learn from it
and build equality, tolerance, and respect is good. For this reason I
posted a lot of contextual information about Makko Billi and his great
achievements so that people would not view him one-dimensionally.
I can only smile in amazement as you try to occupy the silly and
hypocritical position that historical atrocities committed by your
ancestors are ok.
But leaving the historical hypocrisy aside for a moment Solomon, shall
we discuss several years ago, the atrocities committed in some parts of
Harerge and Arsi? Did you personally take part in the limb and breast
mutilation parties or did you just clap your hands from a safe
distance? How much did you enjoy it? Do you consider those days as the
highlight of your career? Do you think you will be able to top those
atrocities in the future? Is it true that your longtime family friend
(Nagaso Gidada) was so disgusted that even he is now calling you a
criminal because of this? Or does he make an exception for his personal
buddies?
Just so you understand Solomon, I am not questioning your ability to
round up a few rabble and incite them to commit atrocities against
innocent people. I am just saying it is nothing to be proud of. Sure
you might find a few followers such as your unfortunate intern, “Dawit
Aberra” aka “Gorade” aka a dozen other screen names. The poor guy made
the mistake of trying to ape your style of hate speech.
But Solomon, most Ethiopians cannot follow you down the path of ethnic
hatred. As Mohammed Hassen states:
“I believe that a true knowledge of the history of the various Ethiopian
people will create confidence and trust among the peoples of that
country. Therefore, it is with this goal in mind that I have
endeavoured to write an objective history of the Oromo of the Gibe
region, but from an Oromo point of view, though I do not neglect the
history of the other people with whom the Oromo have interacted. Above
all, it is a history whose unexpressed message stresses the importance
of and need for building bridges of understanding and tolerance between
the various peoples of Ethiopia.”
Solomon - did you see those words? “Understanding”, “Tolerance” ,
“Trust”, “Building Bridges” among the various Ethiopian people? Your
articles never contain such words.
You see understanding, tolerance, and trust come from learning about and
respecting other cultures without hypocrisy. That was the original
message on this thread. Try your best to understand it. If you continue
on the highway of hypocrisy you will only burn yourself up with hate.
- Dagmawi
mako...@netcom.com
>
:Organization: Netcom On-Line Services
Distribution:
mako...@netcom.com wrote:
: (4) Thou shalt not waste your time trying to teach an
: Abyssinian the suffering Abyssinian rule has caused
: the Oromo, the Ogadeni and other peoples in the
: Ethiopian empire. They will tell you these peoples
: were/are enjoying the treatment.
Note the following correction:
: (4) Thou shalt not waste your time trying to teach an
: Abyssinian Fundamentalist the suffering Abyssinian
rule has caused the Oromo, the Ogadeni and other
peoples in the Ethiopian empire. They will tell you
these peoples were/are enjoying the treatment.
Makobili
ZFanta
<mako...@netcom.com> wrote:
<<(deleted)
(4) Thou shalt not waste your time trying to teach an Abyssinian
Fundamentalist the suffering Abyssinian rule has caused the Oromo, the Ogadeni
and other peoples in the Ethiopian empire. They will tell you these peoples
were/are enjoying the treatment. Makobili>>
Makobili,
For some reasons, the art of expressions and persuasive thinking you once
showed in your writings is quickly depleting. Did you have a measured knowledge
to share and did you run out those idea? What is the situation? It seems to me
that you are feeding us out of your waste basket.
If that is not true, then, it must be that you are showing some sign of mental
fatigue. That is not a bad news to our Woyane friends, you know. We have a long
way to go, brother. We have not concluded yet with the 'BLCK COLONIALS' idea,
and we have not started debating about 'PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY'. You know that
we can not start that topic without you. So, to better prepare for that
gruesome idea and complex concept, I suggest you take a good nap in order to
give your brain a little break. Tomorrow, you will be a better person, and you
will come out a whole new person with fresh and good points. That is what I
want to see and read next time from you. The above statement (was is supposed
to be a phrase?) is like Ay's brain child, not that of great Makobili!
Regards,
ZFanta
abugeda
Dear ZFanta,
Your points are well taken.
Not to belabor the point though, I think it should be crystal clear that in the
final analysis makobili's drive is revenge and the gaining of political hay out of
it. It is not democracy by any stretch of the imagination. I want those on this
forum to have a very clear understanding of the stakes involved in his posturing
and how they are identical to the Dergue's and the TPLF's.
I grew up in Addis during the Dergue's years. Those two facts speak volumes about
myself and the entire generation. Under the Dergue, we grew up not believing that
some ethnic group was better or worse than another. If anything, the Dergue was an
equal opportunity destroyer. We saw daily reminders of the wanton destruction
caused by a government that proclaimed a monopoly on truth. And the origin of this
truth - some ideology, Marxist-Leninist in this case. There was no PROCESS to
arrive at the truth - it was just there. Those who did not accept it were nothing
less than heretics. The jails were full of them - by his own and others' testimony,
Makobili was one of them (one would hope he would have learned this). And then it's
downfall - if anything, this has driven home to me the fact that no-one, I repeat,
NO ONE, has a monopoly on truth.
How does one arrive at the Truth? Only dialogue, and a process that encourages -
indeed FORCES dialogue, are the known ways. These things require that,
1. actors on the political stage admit to themselves that they and their ideologies
DO NOT have any monopoly on the truth.
2. these actors admit that other actors such as them may have a piece of the truth,
3. that only dialogue can reveal this truth to everyone,
4. that this dialogue must include as many actors as possible, and
5. this dialogue can happen only under and through a process that protects the
actors and provides trust.
I went about this circuitous way because I did not want to say "democracy" as this
term is overused and abused.
Under the Dergue, there was no dialogue (i.e. between people and government; and
among political groups) because it relied on Ideology instead.
In 1991 we had a new government. Many thought, (personally I did not hold out much
hope), perhaps this will be the one to recognize ideological dogma for what it is,
but alas this one too did not (and does not) believe in dialogue. And we have again
descended into yet another period of evil and darkness.
So, what to make of Makobili?
Here is a guy whose whole raison d'etre seems to be to point out that Menelik
conquered territories in the late 1800s. He is ABSOLUTELY NOT willing to consider
anything outside of that time and space. In fact, he is articulating an Ideology
around those events. Fine. The question arises then, does HE represent an ideology
willing to dialogue, willing to admit that others may have parts of the truth? He
has been tested, and failed...
He was asked: Explain terms you use in your statements?
Reply: No, I won't because basically you are not even worth speaking to.
He was asked: Can you recognize similar historical events for what they are
(conquest and expansion)?
Reply: One is bad because "my" people were at the short end of the stick, the other
is good because "my" people were at the long end.
He was asked: Are you willing to see dialogue happen before you get what you want
by force?
Reply: Not really, because I see dialogue and force as basically the same thing.
Obviously this is a fellow who is not interested in ANY sort of dialogue, but is
the lead singer in the church of ideological dogma. Worse, his ideology of hate has
stretched out it's hands to personify people living today as part of his past. And
the conclusion I can draw is that this is yet another of the Dergue's and TPLF's
ilk. (Fortunately, I think his type of politician are slowly becoming a dying
breed.) As an Ethiopian who has seen what this does to my country, I would be
remiss not to point out his crocodile tears to those who are not perhaps aware of
what has happened in Ethiopia and continues to happen.
I can sympathise the need for a redress of justice, but the HERE and NOW takes
precedence over the past. Establishing a priority between "democracy" and
"liberation" needs to occur. A simple cost/benefit analysis of these two will
reveal where the long term interest of the people of the horn lies. Even allowing
that makobili's wildest fantasies come true and a state called Oromiya comes into
being through "liberation", the historical evidence of the region and the behaviour
of the political actors today overwhelmingly indicates that this state will only be
repressive to it's own citizens, quick to make political scapegoats of others it
has already labeled Neftenya, and willing to test it's military muscle against it's
purported neighbors. This is not a fantasy, but a reality of the facts on the
ground today. Is this what we want in the region? If on the other hand, such a
state comes about AFTER there is a government established that respects it's
citizens and the rule of law, then that is a completely different picture. At the
very least, I who eventually may return to live in Addis Ababa have a serious
interest in seeing that such a state respects the rights of others. At this
historical point, rhetoric of "liberation" is nothing but an admission that the
"liberators" are not willing to see a democracy established in Ethiopia. And as
long as that does not get implemented, all that a "liberation" will do is repeat
the exercise of TPLF (an absolute dictatorship in Tigray and the rest of Ethiopia)
and the EPLF (an absolute dictatorship in Eritrea). Basically, the neighborhood
will become even more crowded with similar thugs.
And now to my other point - Addis Ababa was and remains a fantastic city where
identity is practically irrelevant in describing who you are and prescribing your
fortunes. Addis is today and most importantly, the promise of tomorrow. It is
living proof of what dialogue can do. For those who do not know, Addis Ababa is a
city of perhaps three millions of absolute mixed identities. To this day, Addis
Ababa continues to receive and harbor refugees coming from Sudan, Eritrea and
Somalia. Add to this the number of internal refugees who for some reason or another
keep flocking to Addis. Despite the active push of the TPLF to incite people
against each other, it remains a city that has shrugged off political posturing. In
a sense, makobili is right to insist on "liberationism", because Addis Ababa proves
that people are generally open minded and fair - they are willing to forget the
past for a future that includes them all.
And finally, this is the last that I will post anything on any threads dealing with
history. My favorite subject in school was Geography. Not even the most abstract of
political ideologies can escape it. And Ethiopia will eventually prove the logic of
her Geography.
abugeda
ense...@juno.com
In article <makobiliE...@netcom.com>,
mako...@netcom.com wrote:
Whoever the Oromo
> conquered was immediately integrated into the Oromo nation
> primarily because the Oromo democratic system of governance had
> procedures in place for naturalization.
Naturalization? Rubbish! Ye-woggaa biressa, ye-tewogga ayressam.
Fiqroo
PS: As to the "Oromo democratic system of governance", I did say the
following at another forum some months ago.
===================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:05:53 -0400
From: Fiqroo Helebo <zfe...@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Reply-To: Ethiopian Email Distribution Network <ETHI...@home.dc.LSOFT.COM>
To: ETHI...@home.dc.LSOFT.COM
Subject: Re: Democracy & Oromo Gadaa system.
==================> "E E D N -- A Home away from Home"
<======================
| All material posted on EEDN is the sole responsibility of the author.
|
| No Material can be distributed, or reposted in another medium.
|
| Visit Ethiopia on the WEB at URL:--> http://www.rpi.edu/~demeke/ethweb.html
|
==============================================================================
=
> The Gadaa system has served as the basis of democratic and egalitarian
> political system.
Egalitarian, you say? No kidding!
The Gadaa system could be democratic or may be not, I do not know. But you
know what? I do not care! As a person of Hadiya heritage, among others,
whose ansestors suffered immeasurably due to the warrior culture that was
the REAL hallmark of the Gadaa system, all I need to know about this
system is that it was mighty devastating to my ansestors way of life and
it has a direct bearing on the predicament they find themselves in today.
But, above all, I consider all this attempt to portray the Gadaa system as
"democratic and egalitarian" as an insult to the thousands who died
defending their homes from an unwelcome invasion by the Gadaaists.
But I want everyone to understand that I am not trying to dwell on the
past. In fact, I do not hold my brothers and sisters of Oromo heritage of
today accountable to the atrocities of their ancestors on mine. But I
take offence whenever these so-called Oromo nationalist try to depict the
Oromo culture of the past in a sanitized way as "democratic and
egalitarian."
Fiqroo
YESHI22
>From: ense...@juno.com
>Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 17:59 EST
>Message-id: <6e74up$7fc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
It is refreshing to hear an opinion from a non "Neftegna's" of both
Camps. If you don't mind can you share with us what you exactly
mean in 'dwelling in the past? How did you get over it?
Thanks in Advace.
Yeshi.
gor...@hotmail.com
In article <19980311030...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
I can see your inconvenience and frustration.
I have had some experience with abyssinians and they are all the same.
A Habesh is a habesh is a habesh....and they never learn!!
gor...@hotmail.com
In article <6e74up$7fc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
...........snip.............
> But I want everyone to understand that I am not trying to dwell on the
> past. In fact, I do not hold my brothers and sisters of Oromo heritage of
> today accountable to the atrocities of their ancestors on mine.
I am glad you do not hold anything on your brothers and
sisters for the past(although I have no idea of what has happned except
hearing it from you), since both Oromos as well as Hadyas are
equally victims of the past hundred plus six years injustice caused by
abyssinians.
Your brother from the green Oromia.
>But I
> take offence whenever these so-called Oromo nationalist try to depict the
> Oromo culture of the past in a sanitized way as "democratic and
> egalitarian."
>
> Fiqroo
>
Mesfin Redi
f
On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 mako...@netcom.com wrote:
>>(4) Thou shalt not waste your time trying to teach an Abyssinian the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It was very annoying.
You earn a respect correcting yourself.
> Note the following correction:
>>(4) Thou shalt not waste your time trying to teach an Abyssinian
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Fundamentalist the suffering Abyssinian rule has caused the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Much better. However, the word "Extrimist" would even more suitable than
"Fundametalist".
Yours,
Mesfin
Misgana
>Message-id: <6e820o$sed$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
> I have no idea of what has happned except hearing it from you
"He who knows much about others maybe learned
but he who understands himself is more intelligent"
Lao-Tse, Chinese Philosopher
yoa
It is not reasonable to respond to a demented character like you;
but to set the record straight, who are you claiming to be this
time? Once, you were a Tigre from Axum; then you transformed yourself
into an assumed name from the region of Gambela. You showed up later
as a "Gorade Demelash" (waw!) and claimed the "Southern People" as
yours. And, then (surprise!) you are in the "Green Oromia". Hold it!
it is not over; now, Habesh, habesh sounds like, oh, no! Somali?
You have to forgive me for forgetting the many, many aliases you have
used, but (surprise! again) same address. You are now at last doing
service to the name of the university from which your moronic postings
originated, by going through hotmail.com. Just curious though-- are you
also another PhD candidate?!?
~~Yoda
gor...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I can see your inconvenience and frustration.
> I have had some experience with abyssinians and they are all the same.
> A Habesh is a habesh is a habesh....and they never learn!!
>
gor...@hotmail.com
In article <19980309164...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> Let me put this subject to rest for you so you will not be
> tormented by it forever:
> If you believe in scientific studies here is what the pre-eminent
> reference book in the world finally admits:
>
> Encyclopaedia Brittanica
Q.1 Do you believe something written down in encyclopedia
is a result of scientific study? Is Encyclopedia the best to rtefer
to?
>
> Aksum
>
> also spelled AXUM, a powerful kingdom in northern
> Ethiopia during the early Christian era. Despite common
> belief to the contrary, Aksum did not originate from
> one of the Semitic Sabaean kingdoms of southern Arabia
> but instead developed as a local power.
After observing your willingness to learn, I went to a library to
jolt down some references. Almost all the references start as follows
"Axum, a legendary city in...." . Then, I decided I should let you know
this.
Q.2 Lets suppose there had been such Axum. Do you believe the people at that
time were the current Tigrians?
I have heard that the current Tigryans are actually the branch of
Abyssinians
that destroyed the Old city called Axum and occupied the city, and the
previous Axum people
had been forced to flee to south. Yet another one, I heard said, among
those fleed to south are The Gurage, Adere and perhaps Hadiya...
>
> If you don't believe in this but sincerely believe in what you
> wrote in the past about hearing people's own version of their
> own history, show me any proof of Amharas and Tigrayans
> own legends that claim that they came from Arabia. Actually isn't the word
> "Arab" almost synonymous with "foreigner/enemy"? Don't attempt the Solomon
> legend because only the royal family claims that and even they probably know
it
> is just a legend.The truth is the "Cushitic" Somali, for example, claim to
have
> come
> from Arabia. The "Semitic" Amhara/Tigrayans' basic ethnic component is the
> "Cushitic" Agew with whom they are 100% indistinguishable.
> One more time, EITHER PUT UP OR SHUT UP. At least
> your freind Makobili has understood the need to back up
> one's argument with evidence. You are the only one left
> with "I said so, so believe me" mentality.
>
ense...@juno.com
In article <19980312065...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
yes...@aol.com (YESHI22) wrote:
>
>
> It is refreshing to hear an opinion from a non "Neftegna's" of both
> Camps.
Gee...thanks!
If you don't mind can you share with us what you exactly
> mean in 'dwelling in the past?
Please refer to my first posting on this thread from a few days ago.
How did you get over it?
>
Say what?
> Thanks in Advace.
> Yeshi.
>
>
Fiqroo
YESHI22
ense...@juno.com writes:
>Date: Fri, Mar 13, 1998 03:03 EST
>Message-id: <6eap6e$t5g$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>In article <19980312065...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
> yes...@aol.com (YESHI22) wrote:
>>
>>
>> It is refreshing to hear an opinion from a non "Neftegna's" of both
>> Camps.
>
>Gee...thanks!
>
> If you don't mind can you share with us what you exactly
>> mean in 'dwelling in the past?
>
>Please refer to my first posting on this thread from a few days ago.
I did read the one that points out your engagement with Makaboli.
Dwelling in the past seems to be what consumes most of our time. I
am looking forward for a time where most our time is spent in building
the future. I always felt we've to deal with the past thoroughly before
starting to deal with the future. You see, then, I am one of the victims of
dwelling in the past. So......I was hoping to get some of your input in the
subject because you sounded clear on that..
>
> How did you get over it?
>
>Say what?
Look the above. I don't mean to put you on the spot. I understand
if you don't answer.
mako...@netcom.com
Misgana
>Message-id: <6eakcv$pha$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>In article <19980309164...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
>
>> Let me put this subject to rest for you so you will not be
>> tormented by it forever:
>> If you believe in scientific studies here is what the pre-eminent
>> reference book in the world finally admits:
>>
>> Encyclopaedia Brittanica
>
>
>Q.1 Do you believe something written down in encyclopedia
> is a result of scientific study? Is Encyclopedia the best to rtefer
> to?
>
>>
>> Aksum
>>
>> also spelled AXUM, a powerful kingdom in northern
>
>> Ethiopia during the early Christian era. Despite common
>> belief to the contrary, Aksum did not originate from
>> one of the Semitic Sabaean kingdoms of southern Arabia
>> but instead developed as a local power.
>
>
>
> After observing your willingness to learn, I went to a library to
> jolt down some references
It is a good start, I hope you make it a habit to go to the
library. But what you write still starts with "I have heard",
are you reading talking books?
ense...@juno.com
In article <19980313193...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
yes...@aol.com (YESHI22) wrote:
> >
> > If you don't mind can you share with us what you exactly
> >> mean in 'dwelling in the past?
> >
> >Please refer to my first posting on this thread from a few days ago.
>
> I did read the one that points out your engagement with Makaboli.
> Dwelling in the past seems to be what consumes most of our time. I
> am looking forward for a time where most our time is spent in building
> the future. I always felt we've to deal with the past thoroughly before
> starting to deal with the future.
Yes, indeed, it is necessary to face the past truthfully if we are not to
repeat the same mistakes again and again. But, as this fellow from Dembi
Dollo wants us to be, we need not be consumed with the past, a very selective
part of the past at that, to deal with what's ahead. That is why I insist
that we need a BALANCED appraisal of our past, not just Minilik's version,
not only Makko Billi's version, and certainly not just Hassen Enjamo's
version. We need a total sum of the whole -- the conquered and the conquerer
-- from time immemorial to this very day.
You see, then, I am one of the victims of
> dwelling in the past. So......I was hoping to get some of your input in
the
> subject because you sounded clear on that..
>
> >
> > How did you get over it?
> >
> >Say what?
>
> Look the above. I don't mean to put you on the spot. I understand
> if you don't answer.
>
No mom/sir! No one will put me on the spot in this or other forums. My reply
was appropriate to the derisive question you posed for me. Would you ask a
Native American of today how he got over the genocidal massacres by the
American colonists?
YESHI22
ense...@juno.com writes:
>Date: Sat, Mar 14, 1998 12:30 EST
>Message-id: <6eeepb$k6q$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Thank you, for the response Sir!. You're also right on my question being
misleading; It wasn't intentional. IMHO, we should all be free to ask
anyone 'how he got over.....' ? Even though this subject effects humans
differently, it debilitates the mind the same. The American Colonist is as
much a prisoner of his own making if h/she don't face the' demon' and get
over it. In the same talking, the Native American, that has freed him/her self
from the 'demon' lives with a peace of mind. Who do you think will give
appropriate answer to my stupid questions? You got it! The Native American!.
Until Next Time,
Regards.
macc...@gmail.com
> Makko Billi - Perspectives On Our History
>
> about a great historical figure among the Matcha Oromo of Ethiopia known
> as Makko Billi, who probably lived during a period that included the
> years 1589 and 1618. The source of this information is Mohammed
> Hassen’s “The Oromo of Ethiopia.”
>
> Mohammed Hassen is an Oromo historian, and one of the top historians of
> Ethiopia. I mention his ethnicity simply to short-circuit the character
> assassination that inevitably appears when historical facts contradict
> political theories.
>
> The second purpose of this article is to comment on two terms
> (“neftenya” and “black colonialism”) that have political significance
> much beyond their actual relevance to Ethiopia today.
>
> [Note: The quotations below are all from “The Oromo of Ethiopia” by
> Mohammed Hassen, 1994. This book is available at www.amazon.com.
> Although for the purposes of this article I am excerpting only small
> pieces of this book, people who read the entire book will be rewarded
> with a great appreciation of Oromo history and enriching details of
> historical Oromo culture. It is highly recommended.]
>
>
> (1) BACKGROUND ON OROMO EXPANSION:
> Makko Billi lived during the early years of the Oromo expansion, when
> the Matcha Oromo had just conquered Wellega...
>
> “ As we have seen, the Matcha spread over a wide area within three to
> four decades. Their campaign was stopped in the south by the people of
> Ennaryea (Jimma region), to the east by the people of Hadiya, Gurage,
> Kambata, and Janjero; to the north the Abbay provided a natural
> barrier.”
>
>
> (2) THE GABBARO - (CONQUERED PEOPLE)
> The Matcha conquered a large number of indigenous people, especially
> during the period of the Birmaji gada (1578 - 1586) - one of the most
> military succesful of the Borana gada...
>
> “Throughout this vast area [Wellega Region], the Matcha lived among the
> conquered people, who probably outnumbered them nine to one.” “The
> Oromo term for the conquered people was “gabbaro” (those who serve).”
>
>
>
> (3) REVOLT OF THE GABBARO IN THE YEAR 1618
> The famous revolt of the Gabbaro took place in 1618, shortly before the
> Kilole gada assumed office. The gabbaro sought help from King Banaro
> of Ennaryea (Jimma Region) as well as Sela Christos, governor of
> Gojjam...
>
> “The conquered people, whose pride was humbled in the dust of slavery,
> and whose number was reduced through sale, realized that their only hope
> of safety was open rebellion. One result was a celebrated uprising of
> conquered people against the Matcha, in the region between Ennaryea and
> the Abbay.”
>
> “When the rights of the “gabbaro” were trampled upon, their women and
> children sold into slavery by their Oromo masters, the “yahabata”
> [gabbaro cavalry] rebelled all over the Matcha land.”
>
>
>
> (4) DESCRIPTION OF MAKKO BILLI
> “According to a very popular Matcha tradition, a certain historical
> figure called Makko Billi played a decisive role at an early stage in
> the life of the Matcha “chafe” at Oda Bisil. His contribution is well
> preserved in the tradition, and his name still is recalled fondly among
> the Matcha.”
>
>
> “The Matcha tradition claims that Makko Billi was ‘an able leader, a
> great law-giver and raajii (prophet) at the same time.’ As an able
> leader he succeded in establishing the famous Matcha “chafe” at Oda
> Bisil. As a law-giver, he instructed the Matcha in the “gada laws.”
> Some of these laws dealt with the ‘art’ of settling disputes over land,
> the importance of perfroming “butta” (the slughtering of bulls by the
> members of the new gada set) every eight years, and the observance of
> the new-year ritual annually. As “raajii” Makko Billi spoke to the
> Matcha in the name of Waqa (the Oromo god) and instructed them to follow
> ‘the way of Waqa.’”
>
>
>
> (5) CONCEPT OF SAFFU
> “Among other Oromo (even among the Tulama, their Borana brethren) both
> the name and the law of Makko Billi are unknown. However, among the
> Matcha, Makko Billi is still remembered not only for his qualities
> mentioned above, but as well for an important Matcha concept which is
> connected inextricably with his name. This is the concept of “saffu”
> which is very difficult to translate into English. It embodies a
> concept somewhat closer to the Marxist dialectical law of unity of the
> opposites. But it differs in this law in that the opposites do not
> struggle in unity. They live without struggling against each other
> because the moment they do, the basis of their peaceful coexistence will
> be destroyed.”
>
>
> “It appears that the main ideas embodied in the concept of saffu are
> harmony, respect, avoidance, and distance. Saffu is mutual. In this
> sense, it is said that thorns and the sole of the feet are saffu to one
> another...Ashes and flour are saffu... Old and young are saffu... Slave
> and master are safu to one another. This saffu came from Waqa and it
> was Makko Billi, who in the name of the Oromo god, ‘applied’ this cosmic
> law of Matcha.”
>
>
>
> (6) CREATION OF MATCHA CHAFE AT ODA BISIL
> After the Matcha conquered Wellega, the distance between them and the
> Tulama was too great for a common chafe. They established their own
> chafe after crossing the Guder river during the Birmaji gada (1578 -
> 1586).
>
> “Makko Billi must have played a dramatic role at the time when the
> Matcha formed their independent “chafe.” This may explain why his name
> has been so deeply involved in the Matcha oral tradition.”
>
> “The new center called Oda Bisil was located between the Gedo, Billo,
> and Gibe rivers.”
>
>
> (7) DEATH OF MAKKO BILLI DURING GABBARO REVOLT
> “It is claimed that when a huge gabbaro force suddenly and unexpectedly
> encircled Oda Bisil, thus exposing the Matcha to destruction, he quickly
> devised an ingenious stratagem that enabled his followers to break out
> of the encirclement. According to this tradition, Makko Billi himself
> was killed while trying to escape, but his strategy saved the Matcha
> from extermination.”
>
>
> “Much remains to be understood about Makko Billi “the law giver”, “the
> prophet”, and war strategist, but enough is already clear to frame a
> picture of an extraordinary leader who was active in the early stages of
> the formation of the Matcha central “chafe” at Oda Bisil.”
>
>
>
> ==========
> COMMENTS
> ==========
> (a) Neftenya - From the above excerpts, it is clear that Makko Billi
> was what would today be called a “neftenya.” He was almost certainly
> not born in Wellega, but rather arrived there as a conquering “neftenya”
> and helped subjugate the indigenous people (90 percent of the
> population). The tradition that he was killed suppressing a revolt of
> the gabbaro indicates that he was active in maintaining an oppressive
> system that rewarded the Oromo elite (who constituted only 10 percent of
> the population).
>
> Now I do not regard being a neftenya in a historical context as either
> negative or positive. It is simply the way it was, and it is wrong to
> apply the standards of one age to select historical personalities or
> ethnic groups in the past. I am myself descended in part from Shoan
> neftenyas (both Oromo and non-Oromo) who settled in Arsi during and
> shortly after the time of Menilik.
>
> The fact is that most ethnic groups (in particular the populous Oromo
> and Amhara) have a dynamic history in which they have played many
> roles. Twisting our history so that one group appears as pathetic
> victims while another are painted as evil oppressors is an immature and
> irresponsible political tactic.
>
> It is far better to teach people the rich Ethiopian history, such as
> that of the Matcha Oromo, and to let people know the great qualities of
> people like Makko Billi, who clearly was an intellectual giant in
> Ethiopian history. Oromo history has been badly neglected in the past,
> and all Ethiopians would greatly benefit by learning more about Oromo
> cultural and political history.
>
>
> (b) Black Colonialism - According to the poorly-developed theories
> expressed by some individuals on this forum, Makko Billi would be a
> “black colonialist.” However it would be outrageous to reduce the
> status of a great individual such as Makko Billi to that of “black
> colonialist.” Unfortunately, this is exactly what is done to some other
> Ethiopian historical figures.
>
> I regard this theory of “black colonialism” as simply inflammatory
> rhetoric. The multi-ethnic history of Ethiopia is rich enough to
> provide its own interpretive models.
>
> As readers of this newsgroup have seen, ‘black colonialist” is used to
> flame individuals and entire ethnic groups. But does this inflammatory
> rhetoric fit in with the concept of “saffu” as introduced by Makko
> Billi? Are the flamer and the flamed “saffu”? I think not. Saffu is
> harmony, respect, avoidance and distance. Flaming on the other hand can
> consume both the flamer and the flamed together, damaging them both. It
> has nothing to do with saffu. Even if people are opposite in outlook,
> their relationship and interchange should be free of flames.
>
>
>
> CONCLUSION
> The intolerance exhibited by the preachers of “black colonialism” is as
> bad as that exhibited by the cult-like devotees of the old historical
> mythology of Ethiopia. A broader, truer and more durable understanding
> of Ethiopian history is needed.
>
>
> - Dagmawi
Dagmawi, you are crippled by Habashean identity crisis emanating from comforting European colonialists opium, namely Christinity Bible. This poison was first sprinkled by the Irish looter of Cushite-Nubian documents, namely James Bruce, who claimed falsity--Ethiopians/Abyssinians ate cats, crocodiles, fleshes from alive animals palpating to death. He fabricated then 'Solomoniac' white-European Dynasty in the heart of black Africa. The white colonialist Europeans, especially Nazi Germans, Chauvinists Britons, Fascist Italians duplicated this further, in the name Judea/Jews propagated this further--Willis Budge, Morneo, Ullendorff,Leslau, Beckingham, Marcus, etc, partimers at Hailesillasie college. The miseducated Habashean 'historians' like Habilesilassie, Mekuria etc,praised, orchestrated this to impress their colonial masters--to de-Africanize Ethiopians of Ancient Cushites. Please read great Africa historians like Ayele Bekerie, Diop, DuBois,etc and forget the in-identity-crises Habasheans. Otherwise, just live butterfly life and await your final death with ignorance and falsity!!!! This is the worst thing an African/Ethiopian can do. Okay????????