>>> On Apr 14, 8:43 pm, RichAsianKid<RichAsian...@hotmail.com>    wrote:
>>>> On 14/04/2012 8:55 AM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:

>>>>> On Apr 13, 6:52 pm, RichAsianKid<RichAsian...@hotmail.com>     wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/04/2012 11:05 AM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:

>>>>>>> On Apr 10, 11:18 pm, RichAsianKid<RichAsian...@hotmail.com>       wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 09/04/2012 7:56 PM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:

>>>>>>>>> On Apr 9, 6:54 pm, RichAsianKid<RichAsian...@hotmail.com>         wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 08/04/2012 8:09 PM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 8, 5:35 pm, RichAsianKid<RichAsian...@hotmail.com>           wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/04/2012 11:23 AM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The reason is we have now reached a moment where four words -- the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> earth is full -- will define our times. This is not a philosophical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement; this is just science based in physics, chemistry and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> biology. There are many science-based analyses of this, but they all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> draw the same conclusion -- that we're living beyond our means."

>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/08/opinion/gilding-earth-limits/index.html...

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I won't dispute those finding because they confirm my own common
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense. The question is what do we do about it. One option is make
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pregnant mothers sign an affidavit that she understands the Earth is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> full, and that her kid won't have a nice life. We have to make her
>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand that cannibalism is a real possibility within a lifetime
>>>>>>>>>>>>> due to the scarcity of resources. Or maybe that cats and dogs become
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an important part of our diet.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another option, of course, is to learn to live within our means so the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Earth can sustain us for a long time. Reality is we are stealing from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> future generations and that's not nice. There's something I can do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> today and that's to ride a bicycle and be conscious of what I eat or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use. Tell you what, I won't drive a car today.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

>>>>>>>>>>>> One prof history emeritus by name of Harold Dorn once wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>> "No species has ever been able to multiply without limit. There are two
>>>>>>>>>>>> biological checks upon a rapid increase in number - a high mortality and
>>>>>>>>>>>> low fertility. Unlike other biological organisms, man can choose which
>>>>>>>>>>>> of these checks shall be applied, but one of them must be."

>>>>>>>>>>>> Quite true.

>>>>>>>>>>>> At the same time never forget much like fantasy kumbaya and manufactured
>>>>>>>>>>>> notions of equality the very idea humans are somehow ultimately above
>>>>>>>>>>>> nature is utopian to begin with. That is, more simply put, not all
>>>>>>>>>>>> posterity are created equal; and some children are _still_ preferred
>>>>>>>>>>>> more than others.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Which of course fundamentally threatens yet another variant of idealism:
>>>>>>>>>>>> another instance of "hope" over experience perhaps?

>>>>>>>>>>>> Why not be one with nature?

>>>>>>>>>>> We could support very high populations if it weren't for all the waste
>>>>>>>>>>> and lack of planning. The Dutch get along fine with their bikes in a
>>>>>>>>>>> highly populated land. Bike traffic seems to flow better there than
>>>>>>>>>>> rush hour in America, which has a much lower population density. Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>> the Third World needs to discard the Western model altogether and look
>>>>>>>>>>> for alternatives such as the bike and the preservation of ecosystems.
>>>>>>>>>>> The cash crops are wiping out forests and creating hunger.

>>>>>>>>>>> The West has paid a hefty price for development and it's now in
>>>>>>>>>>> crisis. I can only hope it doesn't bounce back so it'll learn to live
>>>>>>>>>>> within its means. Perhaps the best hope we can have in the wasteful
>>>>>>>>>>> rich countries is to have bicycles occupy our main mode of
>>>>>>>>>>> transportation within healthy communities.

>>>>>>>>>>> It's not the bike alone of course. Curitiba, Brazil, is a model of
>>>>>>>>>>> public transportation from a Third World country. You don't need to be
>>>>>>>>>>> rich to be prosperous.

>>>>>>>>>> Look, you still have to make a choice. And some will be more valued than
>>>>>>>>>> others in zero-sum game.

>>>>>>>>>> Why fight Darwin?

>>>>>>>>>> Why deplore competition when it's selection process?

>>>>>>>>>> Why not accept some will be valued more than others by whatever perspective?

>>>>>>>>>> Again, why fight nature? And not learn from the "West's" mistakes?

>>>>>>>>> If you don't use the Xerox machine, then it makes sense. My concern is
>>>>>>>>> that consumption habits made in West are recklessly copied, and this
>>>>>>>>> adds to the doomsday scenario.

>>>>>>>>> For example the approaches followed by Taiwan (scooters) and Singapore
>>>>>>>>> (bullet trains) are praiseworthy given their reality not that of the
>>>>>>>>> West. And in turn this not the reality for Africa, where the humble
>>>>>>>>> bike could the vehicle of liberation. Adaption to the environment is a
>>>>>>>>> law of nature.

>>>>>>>> Then tell us how much more copying you can get if you parrot equality,
>>>>>>>> liberty, or democracy. When you "liberate" the rest of the 6 or 7
>>>>>>>> billion, how much worse will the world become?

>>>>>>>> Tell us.

>>>>>>> You are rather pessimist about the outcome but it can only be better
>>>>>>> than what it is. Liberation means not only democracy but liberation of
>>>>>>> Western patterns that are rather unhealthy and unreal. I can almost
>>>>>>> hear it: "I got to have a car to be happy." Oh c'mon, this is Africa,
>>>>>>> you better be happy with bicycles and bananas. Yes, the West has some
>>>>>>> mighty technology such as the Internet that we can take advantage of,
>>>>>>> but we all can be happier by roaming free, than by driving a car and
>>>>>>> eating McDonald's.

>>>>>>> Excuse my copy&       paste now:

>>>>>>> Bananas and the Revolution
>>>>>>> By Peter Schata
>>>>>>> There is a long political history behind bananas becoming the fifth
>>>>>>> most important food commodity in the world. They were one of the first
>>>>>>> products where no expense was spared to create world markets for this
>>>>>>> unmistakable fruit, turning whole countries over to banana production,
>>>>>>> with stooge dictators controlled by the USA, in what aptly became
>>>>>>> known as 'the banana republics'. Half a century after the big
>>>>>>> Hollywood-style banana campaigns, the banana reflects ever more
>>>>>>> clearly a world economic system concerned only with the kind of
>>>>>>> 'growth' that means control of the markets and massive profits. What
>>>>>>> happens to the environment or to the people, who produce and consume
>>>>>>> the fruit of such intentions, appears to be irrelevant.

>>>>>>> In our democracies there is little self-determination, and we only
>>>>>>> need to look at poverty and unemployment in Europe as well, to raise
>>>>>>> doubts as to what is meant by 'free trade'. Such distortions of
>>>>>>> language that hoodwink millions of people into accepting their lot,
>>>>>>> need to be challenged and overturned. New language means new ideas,
>>>>>>> new concepts. This is the revolution. We are this revolution!

>>>>>>> Such a revolution is especially important if we are to find ways to
>>>>>>> shift from the current forms of egocentric globalisation to a global
>>>>>>> society that recognises the actual interrelatedness of all human
>>>>>>> beings as well as our interconnectedness with the planet that supports
>>>>>>> us.

>>>>>> So all things considered it may not be bad idea if most of the third
>>>>>> world should better be content with themselves rather than envy&     emulate.

>>>>>> Good advice, and I agree.

>>>>> Not content where they stand, but to choose a different path.

>>>> But still not content. Why not content. I even thought that's problem
>>>> contentment had with materialism anyway isn't it?

>>>> Wow!

>>>> Besides what different paths would these saints have choosen -
>>>> Materialism? Power?? Or even.... Bananas????

>>>> Serious?

>>> Bananas just give you the right path to follow when managing an
>>> economy wisely. Here's a question:

>>> WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU GIVE A BUNCH OF BANANAS TO A BUNCH OF
>>> MONKEYS?

>>> Every possible political system is represented in the distribution of
>>> the bananas among the monkeys. Having a bureaucracy managing the
>>> bananas is socialism. The bureaucracy mismanaging the bananas is bad
>>> socialism. Marxism is one banana per monkey, except that some monkeys
>>> are better than others. Capitalism will make some some monkeys control
>>> the bananas while others go hungry. Then the WISE MONKEYS must learn
>>> to cooperate and groom each other. THERE'S BANANAS FOR ALL.

>>> But that's only my humble opinion.

>> What you're also saying is blood and soil (food supply being derivative
>> of course) is a prime driver - rather than blind utopian ideology.

>> So-called equality - "democracy" included - is actually true for the
>> dumb, false for the smart, useful for the elite.

>> No?

> That's a clever way to put it. The problem with democracy is that can
> only blame the sheep, not the shepherd. And you don't know who's
> leading who.