The Earth is Full... now what?

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

"The reason is we have now reached a moment where four words -- the
earth is full -- will define our times. This is not a philosophical
statement; this is just science based in physics, chemistry and
biology. There are many science-based analyses of this, but they all
draw the same conclusion -- that we're living beyond our means."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/08/opinion/gilding-earth-limits/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

I won't dispute those finding because they confirm my own common
sense. The question is what do we do about it. One option is make
pregnant mothers sign an affidavit that she understands the Earth is
full, and that her kid won't have a nice life. We have to make her
understand that cannibalism is a real possibility within a lifetime
due to the scarcity of resources. Or maybe that cats and dogs become
an important part of our diet.

Another option, of course, is to learn to live within our means so the
Earth can sustain us for a long time. Reality is we are stealing from
future generations and that's not nice. There's something I can do
today and that's to ride a bicycle and be conscious of what I eat or
use. Tell you what, I won't drive a car today.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

[RichAsianKid]

One prof history emeritus by name of Harold Dorn once wrote:

"No species has ever been able to multiply without limit. There are two
biological checks upon a rapid increase in number - a high mortality and
low fertility. Unlike other biological organisms, man can choose which
of these checks shall be applied, but one of them must be."

Quite true.

At the same time never forget much like fantasy kumbaya and manufactured
notions of equality the very idea humans are somehow ultimately above
nature is utopian to begin with. That is, more simply put, not all
posterity are created equal; and some children are _still_ preferred
more than others.

Which of course fundamentally threatens yet another variant of idealism:
another instance of "hope" over experience perhaps?

Why not be one with nature?

[baldeagle]

On Apr 9, 5:35 am, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 08/04/2012 11:23 AM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "The reason is we have now reached a moment where four words -- the
> > earth is full -- will define our times. This is not a philosophical
> > statement; this is just science based in physics, chemistry and
> > biology. There are many science-based analyses of this, but they all
> > draw the same conclusion -- that we're living beyond our means."
>

> >http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/08/opinion/gilding-earth-limits/index.html...

.> Why not be one with nature?

"To be one with nature" is fundamentally against
their religious belief...(They believe that they are
the chosen ones by their Gods. )
If the earth is too crowded, then they are the deserving
ones...the rest have no place on our planet...no place
in our world.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

They must go, right?

On Apr 8, 3:58 pm, d...@dudu.org wrote:

> There is only one alternative now as it is too late to mitigate the
> damage, and that is billions will die. It has to happen. It always
> happens. There is no possible alternative now.

Who should go first, the most polluting or the weakest? The key
populations to ensure the survival of Western Civilization are found
in North America, Europe and Japan. The so-called developing countries
will have to be discarded before it's too late. How can they be so
dumb to be like us?

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 8, 5:35 pm, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 08/04/2012 11:23 AM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "The reason is we have now reached a moment where four words -- the
> > earth is full -- will define our times. This is not a philosophical
> > statement; this is just science based in physics, chemistry and
> > biology. There are many science-based analyses of this, but they all
> > draw the same conclusion -- that we're living beyond our means."
>

> >http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/08/opinion/gilding-earth-limits/index.html...

We could support very high populations if it weren't for all the waste
and lack of planning. The Dutch get along fine with their bikes in a
highly populated land. Bike traffic seems to flow better there than
rush hour in America, which has a much lower population density. Maybe
the Third World needs to discard the Western model altogether and look
for alternatives such as the bike and the preservation of ecosystems.
The cash crops are wiping out forests and creating hunger.

The West has paid a hefty price for development and it's now in
crisis. I can only hope it doesn't bounce back so it'll learn to live
within its means. Perhaps the best hope we can have in the wasteful
rich countries is to have bicycles occupy our main mode of
transportation within healthy communities.

It's not the bike alone of course. Curitiba, Brazil, is a model of
public transportation from a Third World country. You don't need to be
rich to be prosperous.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 8, 7:20 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:

Religion AND Western influence play a major role in this catastrophe.
Philippines is undergoing a population explosion due to its Catholic
roots and now must import rice to survive. In China though the major
role is Western influence.

[baldeagle]

On Apr 9, 8:16 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

.> Religion AND Western influence play a major role in
.> this catastrophe. Philippines is undergoing a population
.> explosion due to its Catholic roots and now must import
.> rice to survive.

.> Now what ?

Yes. What now !

Singapore and China have taken action to prevent
overpopulation. Chinese scientist has developed a
high yield rice plant..and now China is self sufficient..
it can produce enough rice to feed its rice eating
population.
RAK was talking of over population in other places...
in the Philippines, in Africa, Europe and other places
where they have to import food...have great problem
feeding their people.

RAK has suggested a solution...to follow Lao Tze
way...back to nature. It is possible only if people
are willing to give up all the modern luxuries... and
be prepared to turn the clock back to the time when
Lao Tze was born.
Then.. the abundance of nature was more than sufficient
to feed every mouth on earth...

With the greed of US ways (destroying grain stock to
keep prices high...using GM methods to destroy natural
way of growing crops....using food products to convert
to oil),..there will be shortage...people in poor countries
will have to go hungry. ..
Sadly, starvation and death among the poor become
unavoidable. May be this is final solution..the way to over
come overpopulation.

The new UN human rights:
"The rich has a right to live...the poor have the right
to starvation and death."

[Miss Laure Shan Wen Jie , the Chinese Lady GaGa from Shaghai]

Christians are 1 billion on earth





Chinese are 1 billion on Earth ,



Muslims are approaching 1 billion on earth ,



Hindu is also approaching 1 billion on earth ,



so let's kill 50% of all Indians , Chinese , Muslims ,
Christians

[rst0]

The only way out of this cycle is space exploration to find other
planets that would support life like ours. We must worl together to
expand humanity through the universe.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

I doubt that either going back to the past or going into space
exploration will be the solution. The bicycle can be the wonderful
vehicle of liberation and coupled with new technologies and moderation
we can have a very happy life.

Maybe China can afford an expensive space race but America and Europe
are basically broke. Nothing gets done right, not even the maintenance
of old streets and bridges.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 9, 7:51 am, Old Pif <old...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 8, 3:58 pm, d...@dudu.org wrote:
>
>
>
> > There is only one alternative now as it is too late to mitigate the
> > damage, and that is billions will die. It has to happen. It always
> > happens. There is no possible alternative now.
>

> The best way to curb the population is to educate women. In the West
> where the level of education between the genders is the same the
> population is stable. All the growth is due to immigration from the
> overpopulated regions of the planet.
>
> The Chinese have been able to control their population with
> administrative measures. The real problem is India and similar so
> called democracies of the Third World. Their future is very bleak
> indeed. Up to now they have been able to survive on international help
> but clearly their size has surpassed resources of charitable
> organizations combined.

This may be hard to swallow but maybe it's not a good idea to have a
democracy with an uneducated population. I agree that the education of
women is key, but democracy stands on the way of many things
necessary. Here in America cheap gas has become a "sacred cow" and
that's polluting the Earth like nothing else. Not only we must drive
everywhere, but we got trucks (SUVs) being used as personal ego
machines.

So this is a chain of incredible proportions but the chain breaks at
the weakest link.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

"This rapid growth of population is quite hard to endure for it really
affects both the social and economic condition of our country.
However, population growth cannot be controlled easily because of
cultural and religious reasons, not to mention, the Philippines is
known to be very conservative and very much Catholic"

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_reason_of_population_explosion_in_the_Philippines

I don't think the Pope knows that "THE REVOLUTION IS ABOUT SOLUTIONS."

[rst0]

On Apr 8, 9:21 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

<comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 8, 10:51 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The only way out of this cycle is space exploration to find other
> > planets that would support life like ours.  We must worl together to
> > expand humanity through the universe.
>
> I doubt that either going back to the past

There is no "going back". We can only go forward.

> or going into space
> exploration will be the solution.

Space is the only solution. There is no other way out. Earth will
get more and more polluted. Natural resources will get scarcer and
scarcer. Eventually, we can not grow enough food to feed everybody.
We gotta get out of this place called "earth" and find another place
to live.

> The bicycle can be the wonderful
> vehicle of liberation and coupled with new technologies
> and moderation we can have a very happy life.

No, China tried that already. Human beings are naturally greedy. We
want more of everything, more money, more land, more power, more
wives, more children,...

The only way we can get more is in outer space, in other planets,...

>
> Maybe China can afford an expensive space race

There can not be a "space race" between nations but work together to
save humanity from our own stupidity of destroying earth.

> but America
> and Europe are basically broke. Nothing gets done right,
> not even the maintenance of old streets and bridges.

More reason to work together as humanity to get out of here.
Let Mother Nature renew itself as we leave here for greener pastures.

[rst0]

On Apr 9, 7:06 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

<comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 9, 7:51 am, Old Pif <old...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The best way to curb the population is to educate women. In the West
> > where the level of education between the genders is the same the
> > population is stable. All the growth is due to immigration from the
> > overpopulated regions of the planet.
>
> > The Chinese have been able to control their population with
> > administrative measures. The real problem is India and similar so
> > called democracies of the Third World. Their future is very bleak
> > indeed. Up to now they have been able to survive on international help
> > but clearly their size has surpassed resources of charitable
> > organizations combined.
>
> This may be hard to swallow but maybe it's not a good idea
> to have a democracy with an uneducated population. I agree
> that the education of women is key,

Not only women, but everybody, education is the key to success.

> but democracy stands on the way of many things
> necessary.

We are all born with the same capacity supposedly and have the same
desires. We all can not be "kings" and no servants. Division of labor
is necessary to get things done. Therefore, it is only right that
some of us will be managers while others will be workers. Some become
designers while other ditch diggers.

> Here in America cheap gas has become a "sacred cow"

And here is a path we chose many years ago instead of a "path" seldom
used, i.e., the electric car of many years ago. We could have
magnificent electric cars today if we had chosen this path and spent
our research and development on electric cars instead of gasoline
driven engines.

> and
> that's polluting the Earth like nothing else. Not only we
> must drive everywhere, but we got trucks (SUVs) being used
> as personal ego machines.

Oh!!! yes!!! Robert Frost was sooooo right!!!!

>
> So this is a chain of incredible proportions but the chain
> breaks at the weakest link.

We have our built-in failures, human greed.

[rst0]

On Apr 9, 8:38 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

<nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "This rapid growth of population is quite hard to endure for it really
> affects both the social and economic condition of our country.
> However, population growth cannot be controlled easily because of
> cultural and religious reasons, not to mention, the Philippines is
> known to be very conservative and very much Catholic"
>

> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_reason_of_population_explosion_...

>
> I don't think the Pope knows that "THE REVOLUTION IS ABOUT SOLUTIONS."

We must tame the wild west(space) before we kill ourselves off.

[baldeagle]

Do we have the time...space travel between stars
may be thousands of year away ?

At the rate of those Muslims and Catholic are
producing children (8 to 10 per family are the
norm)...the earth will be full soon.
Until the day we could leave our star (sun), it
is wise to have NO more than two children for
each family unit (husband and wife)...this way we
could prevent population growth. (Many nation
have reach this target...Japan, Singapore,
Germany, ....)

If we cannot do that, then we are doomed ..
nature will punish us....

[RichAsianKid]

Modern & manufactured religion if you think about it - in whatever
variant - is really sophisticated coping mechanism if you think of it -
if not ultimate disguise of and for power.

Yes.

And there's perhaps reason why, too, young white men are often the
loudest crusaders to bash the system in the name of morality.

[RichAsianKid]

Look, you still have to make a choice. And some will be more valued than
others in zero-sum game.

Why fight Darwin?

Why deplore competition when it's selection process?

Why not accept some will be valued more than others by whatever perspective?

Again, why fight nature? And not learn from the "West's" mistakes?

[rst0]

So we better get started as fast as we can.
I have said many many times, rocket engines are NOT fast enough.
We must invent much faster method for space travel.

>
> At the rate of those Muslims and Catholic are
> producing children (8 to 10 per family are the
> norm)...the earth will be full soon.
> Until the day we could leave our star (sun), it
> is wise to have NO more than two children for
> each family unit (husband and wife)...this way we
> could prevent population growth. (Many nation
> have reach this target...Japan, Singapore,
> Germany, ....)
>
> If we cannot do that, then we are doomed ..
> nature will punish us

We must find faster methods for space travel.

[baldeagle]

It is idealism, not concern for overpopulation...that drive
young white men (and women) to bash their social system.

I am not saying that they bashing is not the right thing to do.

[baldeagle]

What ....if we failed to invent machine for space
travel (between stars) ?

Isn't birth control (limited to two per family ) the
interim solution (nations have done this) ?

[RichAsianKid]

>> Modern& manufactured religion if you think about it - in whatever

>> variant - is really sophisticated coping mechanism if you think of it -
>> if not ultimate disguise of and for power.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> And there's perhaps reason why, too, young white men are often the
>> loudest crusaders to bash the system in the name of morality.
>
> It is idealism, not concern for overpopulation...that drive
> young white men (and women) to bash their social system.
>
> I am not saying that they bashing is not the right thing to do.

Someone once commented the modern West's struggle as consisting of (1)
moralists [how dare you you don't take care of the weakest!] (2)
religious types [we're all created equal before God!] (3) minorities
[who have vested interests minimizing differences for personal gain],
and of course, (4) anarchists [power for me but not for you!]

Think about it.

I do have an intellectual question though in the form of a lecture:

http://tinyurl.com/7l5gqfx

This is from a so-called white nationalist conference.

Is it true or is it false?

Or is it merely useful? :)

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

Hey, stupidity is not rewarded in the jungle. ;)

I agree with you 100%. The "escape into space" is just a distraction
for matinee goers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nxKniSgh7M

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 9, 1:17 pm, d...@dudu.org wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 13:02:29 -0400, "Bob" <n...@email.address> wrote:
> ><d...@dudu.org> wrote in message
> >news:5j36o75ltdsvgak5l...@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 12:13:13 -0400, BeamMeUpScotty
> >> <ThenDestroyEveryth...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote:

>
> >>>On 4/9/2012 7:51 AM, Old Pif wrote:
> >>>> On Apr 8, 3:58 pm, d...@dudu.org wrote:
>
> >>>>> There is only one alternative now as it is too late to mitigate the
> >>>>> damage, and that is billions will die. It has to happen. It always
> >>>>> happens. There is no possible alternative now.
>

> >>>> The best way to curb the population is to educate women. In the West
> >>>> where the level of education between the genders is the same the
> >>>> population is stable. All the growth is due to immigration from the
> >>>> overpopulated regions of the planet.
>

> >>>It will be an economic crash and hunger, NOT from lack of ability to
> >>>grow food but from a lack of societies to function, Obama is creating
> >>>the Societal breakdown.
>
> >> Oh fuck off you ignorant hate freak asshole. You don't have a fucking
> >> clue.

>
> >>>> The Chinese have been able to control their population with
> >>>> administrative measures.
>

> >>>Without the economic system where Capitalists produce to feed the
> >>>Chinese, they will also starve.

>
> >>>> The real problem is India and similar so
> >>>> called democracies of the Third World.
>

> >>>Because they are under attack from Socialism... they will, as we are,
> >>>suffering a breakdown in society from the Socialist infiltration of
> >>>their Democratic/Capitalist society. The family and the education
> >>>systems are under attack from the Socialists.
>
> >> You don't even have the brains to understand who the enemy is.

>
> >>>> Their future is very bleak
> >>>> indeed. Up to now they have been able to survive on international help
> >>>> but clearly their size has surpassed resources of charitable
> >>>> organizations combined.
>

> >>>The more Socialism they enact the less the people will be able to
> >>>function to maintain our standards of life.
>
> >> Why don't you just go for the grape koolaid now, and save someone a
> >> bullet.
>
> >You sure wasted our time with this response. Try dealing with the issue
> >instead of your childish rants.
>
> How do you deal with a moron who blames everything going wrong in the
> world on Obama and "socialism"?

The most successful system in the world in the German, which is both
capitalist and socialist:

"Germany is a Social Democracy, which is both capitalist AND has
socialist systems within it.

(So is America, BTW. Social Security, the Interstates, Medicare,
Medicaid, the Post Office, the ARMY!....are ALL "socialism"....)

Trying to define the world in either/or, good/evil, right/wrong states
will eventually make your head explode. Reality does not work that
way..."

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100208122413AAwZHxd

[baldeagle]

.> Someone once commented the modern West's struggle as
.> consisting of :
.> (1)moralists [how dare you you don't take care of the weakest!]
.> (2) religious types [we're all created equal before God!]
.> (3) minorities [who have vested interests minimizing differences
.> for personal gain], and of course,
.> (4) anarchists [power for me but not for you!]
>
> Think about it.

This is my thought:

Struggles...social, religious or political ones...are working
against nature...against natural forces.
It is no accident that water flow downward...and hot air rises.
He who try to stop water from flowing down or try to prevent
hot air from rising ....is not very clever. (Lao Tze's teaching)

Western struggles...in the last decades... have been
trying to stop the colonial slaves from becoming free
nations....and US struggle to re-establish cultural
colonialism...among nations in the East. They are
working against forces larger and stronger than
themselves...they have not been very clever nor very
successful.

It is better to live in peace with nature...natural forces..
and when possible, to use nature ..to make our live
a little better.

>
.> I do have an intellectual question though in the form of a lecture:
>
>    http://tinyurl.com/7l5gqfx
>
.> This is from a so-called white nationalist conference.


I listened to his speech for a few minutes....and found that
he is a clever activists....the usual spins... from a clever
man.
To me, clever spins or not so clever spins....are still spins.
I rather listen to one who speak the truth.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

If you don't use the Xerox machine, then it makes sense. My concern is
that consumption habits made in West are recklessly copied, and this
adds to the doomsday scenario.

For example the approaches followed by Taiwan (scooters) and Singapore
(bullet trains) are praiseworthy given their reality not that of the
West. And in turn this not the reality for Africa, where the humble
bike could the vehicle of liberation. Adaption to the environment is a
law of nature.

[baldeagle]

On Apr 10, 6:54 am, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 08/04/2012 8:09 PM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>

>

.> Why fight Darwin?

Darwin, a great mind, taught us the principle of survival
and of natural selection...the way of nature. He echoed
Lao Tze.
Religions fear him...because he is a threat to the belief
of Islam, Christianity and the Jews... They believe that
man was created by God....not by evolution.

They fight nature....because Nature don't promise them
eternal life.

>
>
> Again, why fight nature? And not learn from the "West's" mistakes?

It is stupid to fight nature ! Most men are born ..."not so
clever".

[Jesus Isa Yeshua Jewish Christ , the Human Scum who had claimed to have been THE SON of GOD < was a STRONG ANTI - TAWHID]

Lao Tze was a naturalist , and a pessimist



so why follow Loa Tze ' s philosophy ? of OLD ,
this is a New AGE ,

we must discuss New philosophy for our New AGE ,



even though I claim to be the ONLY SON of GOD ,

I still support New Thinking for a New Century because I
now realise
you cannot get anything from nothing ,
that is why I believe the Mother of God , St. Mary did
fucked herself to Orgasm .

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 9, 9:14 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 10, 6:54 am, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 08/04/2012 8:09 PM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
> .> Why fight Darwin?
>
> Darwin, a great mind, taught us the principle of survival
> and of natural selection...the way of nature. He echoed
> Lao Tze.
> Religions fear him...because he is a threat to the belief
> of Islam, Christianity and the Jews... They  believe  that
> man was created by God....not by evolution.
>
> They fight nature....because Nature don't promise them
> eternal life.

You show great wisdom, man. You'll probably incarnate in an owl.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 9, 9:14 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 10, 6:54 am, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 08/04/2012 8:09 PM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
> .> Why fight Darwin?
>
> Darwin, a great mind, taught us the principle of survival
> and of natural selection...the way of nature. He echoed
> Lao Tze.
> Religions fear him...because he is a threat to the belief
> of Islam, Christianity and the Jews... They  believe  that
> man was created by God....not by evolution.

The Laws of Nature can be interpreted in different ways, even for good
or evil...

'If we ... ask Nature: "who are the fittest: those who are continually
at war with each other, or those who support one another?" we at once
see that those animals which acquire habits of MUTUAL AID are
undoubtedly the fittest. They have more chances to survive, and they
attain, in their respective classes, the highest development of
intelligence and bodily organization.' -Peter Kropotkin

http://www.marxists.org/subject/science/essays/kropotkin.htm

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

The word "developing" itself means that someday they will be like
America. There's no other path to follow other than getting rich,
getting the right toys and leaving communities to rot. I'm talking
about the infamous Gated Communities and SUVs.

Is someone trying to build a happy nation? Northern Europe figures
among the happiest places on Earth. Maybe they are doing a few things
right, even if they should not be a model for, say, Africa. The
bicycle and the freedom to roam free are prominent is in my wish list.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 9, 7:26 pm, Peter Olcott <NoS...@OCR4Screen.com> wrote:

> On 4/8/2012 2:27 PM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:

> > (This topic carries a subliminal message for the Pope sitting in a
> > palace in Rome)

> > "The reason is we have now reached a moment where four words -- the
> > earth is full

> Be fruitful and multiply and fill the Earth...
> (and when it is full stop filling it already!)

Makes sense to me. But they are waiting for the order to stop and god
is nowhere around!

[rst0]

The human mind is limitless. We can and we must.

>
> Isn't birth control (limited to two per family ) the
> interim solution (nations have done this) ?

Procreation is the natural law of life if we have life to continue.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

So what's your ideal family size... 2, 5, 9?

I was at one point breeding birds and all of sudden I realized they
were too many. Do we have a master that comes to that realization?

[baldeagle]

On Apr 10, 11:51 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 9, 4:10 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 10, 6:59 am, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > We must find faster methods for space travel.
>
> > What ....if we failed to invent  machine for space
> > travel (between stars) ?
>

.> The human mind is limitless.  We can and we must.

Yes...the human mind is limitless...but it cannot
do the impossible.

For space travel (between stars), the journey take
light years ...it means ..even at the speed of light,
it take many years for a single trip. For space travel
to be meaningful, we have to invent a machine that
travel faster the light. Most knowledgeable scientists
say that this is quite impossible to achieve,

They may be wrong!!

>
>
>
> > Isn't birth control (limited to two per family ) the
> > interim solution (nations have done this) ?
>
> Procreation is the natural law of life if we have life to continue.

Procreation doesn't necessary mean having unlimited
numbers of children.
Population can be controlled by birth control. A good
example is what happened in Singapore.

In the 70s, the Singapore government launched a
social engineering program called "stop at 2 "...Parents
were strongly enjcouraged to have NOT more than
2 kids.
By the 90s, the Singapore government were alarmed
that population growth has almost stopped. For every
parents, they have only 1.2 kids.. they were not replacing
themselves.
Our population was aging fast. and we have to allow
massive immigration...to make up with the shortfall...
of about 20%. (We allowed almost 1 million foreigners
to become citizens or permanent residents, or work
permit holders...with an original population base
population of only 4.5 millions.)

To day, with generous incentives like Child bonus...
long maternity leave (paid)...reserved places at the best
schools...we failed to induce parents to have more
children...the birth rate remain stagnant at about 1.5
babies per couple (one of the lowest in the world)

Many progressive nations are having the same
experience....eg. Germany, Japan, South Korea,
Switzerland, Italy.....

Nature, in its own way, is helping to limit population
growth. Countries with high birth rate...are normally
very poor...eg in Africa.... they suffer from famine
and starvation, high death rate among babies and
killed by illness like HIV and malaria.


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2054rank.html?countryName=Singapore&countryCode=sn&regionCode=eas&rank=219#sn

[RichAsianKid]

Struggles including universalism brotherhood of equality can of course
be maintained - for a time - but only for a time - and especially in
contrast to an outsider. But it's not an end nor self-sustaining least
of which self-propaganda.

That's an even more important lesson.

[rst9]

On Apr 10, 1:40 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 10, 11:51 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:> On Apr 9, 4:10 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> .> The human mind is limitless.  We can and we must.
>
> Yes...the human mind is limitless...but  it cannot
> do the impossible.

Giving time, nothing is impossible.

>
> For space travel (between stars), the journey take
> light years

We have to start close to home, like the moon. We must find ways to
make rain on the moon, grow an atmosphere with oxygen, make our moon a
space station for space travels of the future.

Future spacecraft will be built around earth orbit the size of a city,
with magnetic shield, that will hold from a hundred thousand people to
half a million, all self-sustaining, growing its own food,... Once it
leaves earth orbit, the only contact we will have with them is radio
wave signals.

Once they get to their destination, the spaceship will be disassembled
into tools for farming, construction building equipment,...

> ...it means ..even at the speed of light,
> it take many years for a single trip.

Yes, birth and death will be on the spaceship.

> For space travel
> to be meaningful, we have to invent a machine that
> travel faster the light.

Or close to it.

> Most knowledgeable scientists
> say that this is quite impossible to achieve,

Impossible today is possible in the future.

>
> They may be wrong!!

Yes, they are wrong.
The universe has been around for almost 15 billion years, the sun
burns for 5 billion years. Nothing is impossible.

> > Procreation is the natural law of life if we have life to continue.
>
> Procreation doesn't necessary mean having unlimited
> numbers of children.

We have a limit because our earth space is limited. If we can move to
the moon to live, that almost cut our limit in half. To live in Mars,
there is no need to talk about population limits. To live on the moon
and Mars can be achieved in the next generation if we set our mind to
it.

> Population can be controlled by birth control. A good
> example is what happened in Singapore.

So is space settlement on the moon and on Mars.

Both objectives can be achieved, but I think settlements on the moon
and Mars are a better choice.

>
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder...

[baldeagle]

Equality....struggle for equality is an ideal. I am not sure
if anyone is seriously making an effort to achieve equality
among one people and one nation. As for ' universalism
brotherhood of equality"....I have not heard of such
attempt by anyone or any organization.

[baldeagle]

On Apr 11, 7:16 am, rst9 <rst9w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 10, 1:40 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 10, 11:51 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:> On Apr 9, 4:10 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > .> The human mind is limitless.  We can and we must.
>
> > Yes...the human mind is limitless...but  it cannot
> > do the impossible.
>
> Giving time, nothing is impossible.

Yes. in theory and in imagination, nothing is impossible.

However, Time is a limiting factor. Our limited knowledge
set the limit to what is achievable and what is just a
dream...science fiction.
Another critical factor is resources... Even rich country
like the USA...do not have what it takes....the USA has
been forced to cancel many NASA space program...
forced to shelve the program to build another fleet of
space ship to replace the space shuttle.

It is good to think big, to think of doing the impossible...
it will take 'forever' to realize such feat...certainly
way beyond the life time of everyone alive today.

[RichAsianKid]

But shouldn't Americans also have the best sense of humor?

[RichAsianKid]

Then tell us how much more copying you can get if you parrot equality,
liberty, or democracy. When you "liberate" the rest of the 6 or 7
billion, how much worse will the world become?

Tell us.

[RichAsianKid]

What you're saying is diversity is weakness? Even your article had to
end with moral uplift.

Question: why can't people similar to each other also cooperate more?

[RichAsianKid]

More importantly not in tech but in philosophy is (quoted once before):

http://tinyurl.com/7l5gqfx

[rst9]

On Apr 10, 4:54 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 11, 7:16 am, rst9 <rst9w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 10, 1:40 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Giving time, nothing is impossible.
>
> Yes. in theory and in imagination, nothing is impossible.
>
> However, Time is a limiting factor.

You are thinking of only one lifetime. This project will take many
lifetimes. Like I said before about life on a spacecraft, people will
be born and died on a spaceship of hundreds of thousands of people.

> Our limited knowledge
> set the limit to what is achievable and what is just a
> dream...science fiction.

Science fiction has a way of becoming real life.

In 1900, who would have thought we could send people to the moon and
come back alive?

> Another critical factor is resources...  Even rich country
> like the USA...do not have what it takes....the USA has
> been forced to cancel many NASA space program...
> forced to shelve the program to build another fleet of
> space ship to replace the space shuttle.

America's vision of itself is set on earth, preserving its power base
on earth even though we know very well human beings have contaminated
earth beyond our power to restore it.

>
> It is good to think big, to think of doing the impossible...

When you think it is impossible, then it is impossible. You gotta
think beyond the limits of possibilities.

> it will take 'forever'  to realize such feat...certainly
> way beyond the life time of everyone alive today.

I didn't expect to see this project to be completed in one lifetime.
This is a long range planning for the future, for future generations,
to save humanity.

>
> > We have to start close to home, like the moon.  We must find ways to
> > make rain on the moon, grow an atmosphere with oxygen, make our moon a
> > space station for space travels of the future.
>
> > Future spacecraft will be built around earth orbit the size of a city,
> > with magnetic shield, that will hold from a hundred thousand people to
> > half a million, all self-sustaining, growing its own food,...  Once it
> > leaves earth orbit, the only contact we will have with them is radio
> > wave signals.
>
> > Once they get to their destination, the spaceship will be disassembled
> > into tools for farming, construction building equipment,...
>

> > Yes, birth and death will be on the spaceship.
>

> > Or close to it.

>
> > Impossible today is possible in the future.
>
>

> > Yes, they are wrong.
> > The universe has been around for almost 15 billion years, the sun
> > burns for 5 billion years.  Nothing is impossible.
>

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 10, 7:16 pm, rst9 <rst9w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 10, 1:40 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 10, 11:51 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:> On Apr 9, 4:10 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > .> The human mind is limitless.  We can and we must.
>
> > Yes...the human mind is limitless...but  it cannot
> > do the impossible.
>
> Giving time, nothing is impossible.

Nothing is impossible. I went to the end of Universe and back in my
mind. Nothing out there. ;)

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

That's because they may be inpractical. We can aim though for a more
mundane, but more practical goal: SPACE FOR ALL SPECIES. This is
inspired by Nature of course. Say you won't put a rat and a mouse
together. It won't be like a cyclist is a loser in a Globalized World,
where only winners count.

I just wrote this elsewhere:

On Apr 11, 3:39 am, Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Apr 10, 11:56 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 10, 10:16 pm, Frank Krygowski <frkrygowREM...@gEEmail.com>

> > wrote:
>
> > > TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>

> > > > On Apr 10, 6:50 pm, Phil W Lee<p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
> > > >> "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

> > > >> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> considered Tue, 10 Apr 2012 07:57:12 -0700
> > > >> (PDT) the perfect time to write:
>
> > > >>> The evidence is all around me. "Bike facilities" are not only stupid,
> > > >>> they are criminal. If I were an engineer in charge of approving those,
> > > >>> I'd commit suicide.
>
> > > >> I think that you and Frank are in furious agreement on that subject :)
>
> > > > I don't agree that BIKE FACILITIES have to stupid. If American
> > > > engineers are not up to task, let's bring Europeans or Cubans.
>
> > > > But there's a Plan B if you find foreigners telling you what to do too
> > > > sensitive: TAKE THE LANE EVERY TIME. Make cars leave the lane to pass
> > > > you. YOU NEED SPACE. And don't forget to TAME TRAFFIC.
>
> > > Interesting that the Monkey is now in agreement with the most militant
> > > cyclists. Heck, even I don't take the lane _every_ time!
>
> > > --
> > > - Frank Krygowski
>
> > Sorry, when you don't take the lane you invite drivers to squeeze you,
> > harass you and intimidate you. You don't share space with a beast 20
> > times your weight. The noise also rattles you. Some of them roar the
> > engine on purpose.
>
> > When you take the lane you become more visible as well. There's only
> > one way and that's over your dead body.
>
> And sometimes it *IS* over your very dead body.
>
> If and when push comes to shove a car or truck will win over a bicycle
> every time.
>
> Cheers

But it won't be by "accident." It would be international news and some
here will rejoice. ;)

For it to need to work though it has to be coordinate by different
people, in different cities. Not at all like Critical Mass. It could
one person in Miami, one in NYC and another in Dallas. The more the
better.

This is confirmed by the "laws of nature":

"The big fish eats the little fish unless the little fish get
organized."

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

You are rather pessimist about the outcome but it can only be better
than what it is. Liberation means not only democracy but liberation of
Western patterns that are rather unhealthy and unreal. I can almost
hear it: "I got to have a car to be happy." Oh c'mon, this is Africa,
you better be happy with bicycles and bananas. Yes, the West has some
mighty technology such as the Internet that we can take advantage of,
but we all can be happier by roaming free, than by driving a car and
eating McDonald's.

Excuse my copy & paste now:

Bananas and the Revolution
By Peter Schata
There is a long political history behind bananas becoming the fifth
most important food commodity in the world. They were one of the first
products where no expense was spared to create world markets for this
unmistakable fruit, turning whole countries over to banana production,
with stooge dictators controlled by the USA, in what aptly became
known as 'the banana republics'. Half a century after the big
Hollywood-style banana campaigns, the banana reflects ever more
clearly a world economic system concerned only with the kind of
'growth' that means control of the markets and massive profits. What
happens to the environment or to the people, who produce and consume
the fruit of such intentions, appears to be irrelevant.

In our democracies there is little self-determination, and we only
need to look at poverty and unemployment in Europe as well, to raise
doubts as to what is meant by 'free trade'. Such distortions of
language that hoodwink millions of people into accepting their lot,
need to be challenged and overturned. New language means new ideas,
new concepts. This is the revolution. We are this revolution!

Such a revolution is especially important if we are to find ways to
shift from the current forms of egocentric globalisation to a global
society that recognises the actual interrelatedness of all human
beings as well as our interconnectedness with the planet that supports
us.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 11, 11:07 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

All we got to do is to get the Third World on board and forget about
Western solutions. Then American engineers will face the fact that
they have to work for their money. Cuba has such a solution but it's
the wrong model: NO BANANAS and NO ROAMING FREE.

This is biking in North and West Africa. Notice that no locals are
riding a bike:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOzl_hGRiko&feature=fvwrel

Nice music, right?

[rst9]

On Apr 11, 7:51 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

That is because you have nothing in your head.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 11, 11:03 am, Bob Eld <nsmontas...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 4/8/2012 12:26 PM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > (This topic carries a subliminal message for the Pope sitting in a
> > palace in Rome)
>

> > "The reason is we have now reached a moment where four words -- the
> > earth is full -- will define our times. This is not a philosophical
> > statement; this is just science based in physics, chemistry and
> > biology. There are many science-based analyses of this, but they all
> > draw the same conclusion -- that we're living beyond our means."
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/08/opinion/gilding-earth-limits/index.html...
>
> > I won't dispute those finding because they confirm my own common
> > sense. The question is what do we do about it. One option is make
> > pregnant mothers sign an affidavit that she understands the Earth is
> > full, and that her kid won't have a nice life. We have to make her
> > understand that cannibalism is a real possibility within a lifetime
> > due to the scarcity of resources. Or maybe that cats and dogs become
> > an important part of our diet.
>
> > Another option, of course, is to learn to live within our means so the
> > Earth can sustain us for a long time. Reality is we are stealing from
> > future generations and that's not nice. There's something I can do
> > today and that's to ride a bicycle and be conscious of what I eat or
> > use. Tell you what, I won't drive a car today.
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>

> What happens to any biological organism be they rats, rabbits or
> bacteria when they overrun their environment and cannot find sufficient
> food, water, shelter and other factors necessary to survive?
>
> Simple, Their population crashes and that fate awaits humans for the
> same reasons. Of course the worst sufferers will be in the third world
> where they are already stretched thin, can't raise their own food and
> are running out of water. Climate change makes it worse with famine
> already beginning in some areas. The future is bleak for many people.
>
> The developed world will fare better. Birth rates are already declining
> in most areas, in Europe and elsewhere, even Mexico believe it or not.
> Moreover the developed world has the scientific expertise to do things
> about climate change, droughts and food shortages. Now, all they'll need
> will be the political will to make necessary changes. Lack of political
> will and belief in mythology and irrational bull shit will be the
> biggest problem facing countries like the US. Lets hope we can get our
> act together.

We can only pray. ;)

I think we'll go back to feudal times with all these gated communities
and serfs working to satisfy the rich. They can hire half of humanity
to kill the other half, to paraphrase some fat cat.

The BS will catch up with the bulshitters sooner or later.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

Sorry to break it to you but 95% of the Universe is empty space...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110801012323AA5fySH

Any spaceship would get lost in it.

[rst0]

On Apr 11, 2:34 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

Great!!! That means we have a lot of work to do to expand humanity
through space and beyond.

[baldeagle]

On Apr 12, 5:34 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

>
> Sorry to break it to you but 95% of the Universe is empty space...
>

>

.> Any spaceship would get lost in it.

Your info is outdated. Our universe is not only empty space...

The latest:
In our galaxy alone, there are billions of earth like planets.

In the universe, there are probably more than 170 billion (1.7 × 1011)
galaxies in the observable universe.


see Website:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/ten-billion-earths/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7891002.stm

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 12, 8:47 am, mind <being@.... --- -- .> wrote:
> TibetanMonkey wrote:
> >I think you are funny.
>
> Since, in the final moments of life on Earth,
> there is a Red Giant that gobbles up every organism,
> everything in between can be seen
> as being somewhat dramatic.
>
> You appear to be addicted to drama.
>
> If there was no immediate threat, which there isn't,
> or you would not be spending time on Usenet,
> you would complain about how a dog
> or a cat did something
> of which you do not approve.
>
> So you step in it, stir it, and it stirs you,
> to fling it onto message boards. You find a cause
> because you have nothing better to do.
>
> Your life is good. You have free time.
> You have access to bliss, yet you squander it.
> You focus on what can rile you. Such is how you are.
>
> You are addicted to your rile.
> Ore sew it seams.
>
> > Everything is cool and the TibetanMonkey is a
> >dissatisfied monkey. Yeah sure.
>
> You are dissatisfied with everything being cool. Yes?
>
> So you stir the stuff of cats and dogs. You see what you see
> and judge how you judge. And how you judge disturbs you. No?
>
> There are solutions which can dissolve your disturbance
> but you ignore those types of Buddhist and Taoist solutions.
>
> What I appreciate is that you provide an opportunity
> for me to apply these solutions to the problems you present.
> A morning med of sorts, for me to sort thru and through.
>
> >You are wrong though. You rely on wishful thinking not fact or
> >numbers. Numbers don't lie:
>
> Statistics can be twisted to enable one to feel bad.
> You appear to be hooked on that side of a coin.
>
> You wish for the good, without realizing how
> the wish itself evokes the bad.
>
> Taoism may take a different Road.
> Forget about good and bad
> and alls can be wells.
>
> You appear to want to feel as you are fixated.
> Stuck in your own rut with what cats and dogs do,
> or what people do, as if those things are not natural.
>
> >China would have a population of 2,207 billion if it had the density
> >of Germany and the whole Earth would crumble under such demand.
>
> If that is your thought, your fear,
> then that is the rut you have thought yourself into.
>
> Malthus may have thought along similar lines.
> You appear to be a Malthusian in your thought.
>
> Earth may be doing what is natural for Earth
> yet your scope is too narrow to see it.
>
> In order for Life to move on, out of its Earth-nest,
> it might require billions of people. To reach the stars.
>
> You would hamper that, cripple that, with your thought.
>
> >Luckily China has been smarter than you and today and only has 1,350
> >billion people. Good for them.
>
> The land-mass of China might support triple that
> for all you actually "know" but you think you know
> what you think you know, and your thinking induces
> you to post what you post, to complain continually.
>
> >Germany's population density: 593 per square mile.
>
> >China's population density: 363 per square mile.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_t...
>
> Using various ways to measure,
> Earth can be shown to be full of people
> who are full of their own ideas.
>
> You have shown this to be true.
>
> If you were to take 600 people or 1000 people
> and have them all line up next to each other
> how much of that one square mile would they cover?
>
> That's double or triple China's population.
>
> A mile is 5,280 feet long.
> If a person stretches out his or her arms
> and they reach out 6 feet, it would take how many
> for 1000 people to reach one mile across?
>
> Let's do the math. Shall we?
> One thousand people, stretching 6 feet arm's-length
> would be 6,000 feet. A little over one mile. Right?
>
> And how wide is one person? Two feet? Three feet?
> So if you line up triple the number of people in China
> into a per-square-mile area, they would cover about 3%
> of that square mile.
>
> That leaves 97% of the square mile open. Empty.
> Not at all full. Not even half. Not one fourth. Not even
> a tenth full. Less than 5%, and that's with triple
> the density of China as it now stands.
>
> >Are you playing Three Wise Monkeys?
>
> Numbers games can be fun.
> How wise they may make One
> cud be semantics.
>
> If you empty yourself of ideas,
> the ones you cling to, to be right,
> what will you have left?
>
> Being empty of ideas
> one may find a form of being One
> in a way unlike the forms you cling to.
>
> You may think you have found oneness
> in your many, many, many thoughts.
>
> Perhaps one is one too many.
>
> When nothing is beyond you
> you will never quite reach it.
>
> When nothing is within you,
> then you may find a door, a window,
> a wheel, and plenty of room to move.

Yeah sure, nothing to worry about. As the weather gets Biblical...

http://news.yahoo.com/insurers-rethink-coverage-weather-disaster-payouts-124608977.html

Insurers go missing. To be expected. They know science translates into
hard cash.

This is my wise comment:

"Mother Earth is fighting back with all her might."

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

So what's the current estimate in percentage?

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

Are we traveling in style?

http://regmedia.co.uk/2011/11/23/flash_gordon_rocketship.png

"The important thing is not the destination but the trip itself."
That's what I do on my bikes.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 11, 9:24 pm, Marvin the Martian <mar...@ontomars.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 13:58:55 -0600, deep wrote:

> > On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 12:16:29 -0700 (PDT), "TibetanMonkey, the Beach
> > Cruiser Philosopher" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>"The reason is we have now reached a moment where four words -- the
> >>earth is full -- will define our times. This is not a philosophical
> >>statement; this is just science based in physics, chemistry and biology.
> >>There are many science-based analyses of this, but they all draw the
> >>same conclusion -- that we're living beyond our means."
>

> >>http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/08/opinion/gilding-earth-limits/index.html?
>
> eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>I won't dispute those finding because they confirm my own common sense.
> >>The question is what do we do about it. One option is make pregnant
> >>mothers sign an affidavit that she understands the Earth is full, and
> >>that her kid won't have a nice life. We have to make her understand that
> >>cannibalism is a real possibility within a lifetime due to the scarcity
> >>of resources. Or maybe that cats and dogs become an important part of
> >>our diet.
>
> >>Another option, of course, is to learn to live within our means so the
> >>Earth can sustain us for a long time. Reality is we are stealing from
> >>future generations and that's not nice. There's something I can do today
> >>and that's to ride a bicycle and be conscious of what I eat or use. Tell
> >>you what, I won't drive a car today.
>

> > There is only one alternative now as it is too late to mitigate the
> > damage, and that is billions will die. It has to happen. It always
> > happens. There is no possible alternative now.
>
> Now that you've stated that you're worse than Hitler, Stalin and Mao
> combined...

Only if I promoted war or mass starvation. Actually I'm promoting
PREVENTION and SMART FOOD POLICIES. How can you turn CORN into fuel
and not think of all the people hungry in the world? And do we really
need all the MEAT? I don't think so. But that's only my humble
opinion. How about RIDING A BIKE? That's the best you can do for the
planet:

On Apr 11, 8:40 pm, linuxgal <linux...@cleanposts.com> wrote:

> TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
> > China would have a population of 2,207 billion if it had the density
> > of Germany and the whole Earth would crumble under such demand.

> > Luckily China has been smarter than you and today and only has 1,350
> > billion people. Good for them.
>

> A lot of China looks like outer Mongolia. You can't extrapolate like
> that. People don't live in such densities on arid steppes.

Parts of America are not very friendly either, ie. Alaska. But my
point is that Germany has a high population density while keeping a
high standard of living. America has 83 people per square mile, so
that's empty. I figure Holland is pretty stable even though it
sustains 1046 people per square mile. Someone riding a bike is not
nearly the same as someone driving an SUV.

[rst0]

On Apr 12, 7:19 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

<comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 11, 7:43 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Any spaceship would get lost in it.
>
> > Great!!!  That means we have a lot of work to do to
> > expand humanity through space and beyond.
>
> Are we traveling in style?

No, as plain as riding a bike!!

>
> http://regmedia.co.uk/2011/11/23/flash_gordon_rocketship.png

This will never do. Have you seen the movie "Independence Day"? A
spaceship of that type with magnetic shield and hundreds of thousands
of people. Once get there, the spaceship will be disassembled into
farming equipment, construction machinery, tools of starting a new
civilization.

>
> "The important thing is not the destination but the trip itself."

No, the important thing IS the destination, not the trip itself.

> That's what I do on my bikes.

A bike is for short distance usage. A spaceship is for long long
distance travel. That is the difference.

[rst0]

On Apr 12, 8:24 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

Given time, human beings can turn desert into lush-farm land. Have
you noticed the land on interstate 5 in California from Grapevine to
Tracy from 1975 to now? In 1975, it was a stretch of 200 miles of
desert and nothing else. Today, half of those desert have become
farmland and ranch land. Small towns have popped up every few miles
with fast-food restaurants and motels.

We could do the same on the moon, and on Mars.

[baldeagle]

True but sadly...... most Americans now are struggling with
putting food on the dinner table...than sharing laughter
at dinner tables.

The lovable peanuts...iconic Charlie Brown, Snoopy, and
Lucy no longer grace American homes for more than
a decade now. No comic strip has emerged to take its
place.

This is no accident.

[baldeagle]

The USA has lost its zest for space adventures...ever
since its economic setbacks. Other nations are also
not doing much in space explorations. Individuals
do not have the resources.

I do not see..space travel (between stars) even in the
distant horizon.

[baldeagle]

On Apr 12, 10:20 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

<comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 11, 8:18 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 12, 5:34 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
>
> > > Sorry to break it to you but 95% of the Universe is empty space...
>
> > .> Any spaceship would get lost in it.
>
> > Your info is outdated. Our universe is not only empty space...
>
> > The latest:
> > In our galaxy alone, there are  billions of earth like planets.
>
> > In the universe, there are probably more than 170 billion (1.7 × 1011)
> > galaxies in the observable universe.
>

> > see Website:http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/ten-billion-earths/http://n...

>
> So what's the current estimate in percentage?

That space is NOT empty.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 12, 11:50 am, Marvin the Martian <mar...@ontomars.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:23:04 -0700, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Philosopher wrote:
> > On Apr 11, 9:24 pm, Marvin the Martian <mar...@ontomars.org> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 13:58:55 -0600, deep wrote:

> >> > On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 12:16:29 -0700 (PDT), "TibetanMonkey, the Beach
> >> > Cruiser Philosopher" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >>"The reason is we have now reached a moment where four words -- the
> >> >>earth is full -- will define our times. This is not a philosophical
> >> >>statement; this is just science based in physics, chemistry and
> >> >>biology. There are many science-based analyses of this, but they all
> >> >>draw the same conclusion -- that we're living beyond our means."
>
> >> >>http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/08/opinion/gilding-earth-limits/

> index.html?
>
> >> eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

>
> >> >>I won't dispute those finding because they confirm my own common
> >> >>sense. The question is what do we do about it. One option is make
> >> >>pregnant mothers sign an affidavit that she understands the Earth is
> >> >>full, and that her kid won't have a nice life. We have to make her
> >> >>understand that cannibalism is a real possibility within a lifetime
> >> >>due to the scarcity of resources. Or maybe that cats and dogs become
> >> >>an important part of our diet.
>
> >> >>Another option, of course, is to learn to live within our means so
> >> >>the Earth can sustain us for a long time. Reality is we are stealing
> >> >>from future generations and that's not nice. There's something I can
> >> >>do today and that's to ride a bicycle and be conscious of what I eat
> >> >>or use. Tell you what, I won't drive a car today.
>

> >> > There is only one alternative now as it is too late to mitigate the
> >> > damage, and that is billions will die. It has to happen. It always
> >> > happens. There is no possible alternative now.
>
> >> Now that you've stated that you're worse than Hitler, Stalin and Mao
> >> combined...
>
> > Only if I promoted war or mass starvation. Actually I'm promoting
> > PREVENTION and SMART FOOD POLICIES. How can you turn CORN into fuel and
> > not think of all the people hungry in the world? And do we really need
> > all the MEAT? I don't think so. But that's only my humble opinion. How
> > about RIDING A BIKE? That's the best you can do for the planet:
>
> > On Apr 11, 8:40 pm, linuxgal <linux...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
> >> TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
> >> > China would have a population of 2,207 billion if it had the density
> >> > of Germany and the whole Earth would crumble under such demand.
> >> > Luckily China has been smarter than you and today and only has 1,350
> >> > billion people. Good for them.
>
> >> A lot of China looks like outer Mongolia. You can't extrapolate like
> >> that. People don't live in such densities on arid steppes.
>

> > Parts of America are not very friendly either, ie. Alaska. But my point
> > is that Germany has a high population density while keeping a high
> > standard of living. America has 83 people per square mile, so that's
> > empty. I figure Holland is pretty stable even though it sustains 1046
> > people per square mile. Someone riding a bike is not nearly the same as
> > someone driving an SUV.
>

> So, who are you globalist going to kill off? Blacks? Whites? Asians?
> Smart People? Dumb people? Anyone who gets in your way?
>
> I hear the plan is to get rid of all but 500 million people. That's some
> 6 billion or more. I want to know who's on your murder list.

Once women are educated population growth gets under control. Only
Christians live by the credo "multiply and conquer."

Wait, every Christian sect believes only them will survive Armageddon,
so I think God is the mass murderer here.

[Mao , the HEAD of the CPC , Communist Party of China , Yellow Race Power Block]

If you kill 50% of our Chinese population in China


we Chinese still have
9 million Chinese in Malaysia ,
9 million Chinese in Thailand ,
10 million Chinese in Indonesia,
and
3 millions Chinese in the Philippines .


Not to forget we Chinese shall put 30 million more
Chinese into Myanmar




n Apr 9, 9:46 am, "Miss Laure Shan Wen Jie , the Chinese Lady
GaGa from Shaghai" <verinvanv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christians   are  1  billion   on  earth
>
> Chinese  are  1  billion on  Earth  ,
>
> Muslims  are  approaching     1  billion  on  earth ,
>
> Hindu   is  also  approaching  1  billion  on  earth  ,
>
> so  let's  kill  50%  of  all  Indians , Chinese ,  Muslims ,
> Christians
>
>  Apr 9, 9:19 am, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 9, 8:16 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
>
> > <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > On Apr 8, 7:20 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Apr 9, 5:35 am, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>

> > > > > On 08/04/2012 11:23 AM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
> > > > .> Why not be one with nature?
>
> > > > "To be one with nature" is fundamentally against
> > > > their religious belief...(They believe that they are
> > > > the chosen ones by their Gods. )
> > > > If the earth is too crowded, then they are the deserving
> > > > ones...the rest have no place on our planet...no place
> > > > in our world.
>

> > .> Religion AND Western influence play a major role in
> > .> this catastrophe.  Philippines is undergoing a population
> > .> explosion due to its Catholic roots and now must import
> > .> rice to survive.
>
> > .> Now what ?
>
> > Yes. What now !
>
> > Singapore and China have taken action to prevent
> > overpopulation.  Chinese scientist has developed a
> > high yield rice plant..and now China is self sufficient..
> > it can produce enough  rice   to feed its rice eating
> >  population.
> > RAK was talking of over population in other places...
> > in the Philippines, in Africa, Europe and other places
> > where they have to import food...have great problem
> > feeding their people.
>
> > RAK has suggested a solution...to follow Lao Tze
> > way...back to nature.  It is possible only if people
> > are willing to give up all the modern luxuries... and
> > be prepared to turn the clock back to the time when
> > Lao Tze was born.
> > Then.. the abundance of nature was more than sufficient
> > to feed every mouth on earth...
>
> > With the greed of US ways (destroying grain stock to
> > keep prices high...using GM methods to destroy natural
> > way of  growing crops....using food products to convert
> > to oil),..there will be shortage...people in poor countries
> > will have to go hungry. ..
> > Sadly, starvation and death among the poor become
> > unavoidable. May be this is final solution..the way to over
> > come overpopulation.
>
> > The new UN human rights:
> > "The rich has a right to live...the poor have the  right
> > to starvation and death."

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 12, 11:39 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
<ThenDestroyEveryth...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote:

> On 4/12/2012 11:17 PM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 12, 11:50 am, Marvin the Martian <mar...@ontomars.org> wrote:

> >> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:23:04 -0700, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser

> >>>> TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>

> >>>>> China would have a population of 2,207 billion if it had the density
> >>>>> of Germany and the whole Earth would crumble under such demand.
> >>>>> Luckily China has been smarter than you and today and only has 1,350
> >>>>> billion people. Good for them.
>
> >>>> A lot of China looks like outer Mongolia. You can't extrapolate like
> >>>> that. People don't live in such densities on arid steppes.
>
> >>> Parts of America are not very friendly either, ie. Alaska. But my point
> >>> is that Germany has a high population density while keeping a high
> >>> standard of living. America has 83 people per square mile, so that's
> >>> empty. I figure Holland is pretty stable even though it sustains 1046
> >>> people per square mile. Someone riding a bike is not nearly the same as
> >>> someone driving an SUV.
>
> >> So, who are you globalist going to kill off? Blacks? Whites? Asians?
> >> Smart People? Dumb people? Anyone who gets in your way?
>
> >> I hear the plan is to get rid of all but 500 million people. That's some
> >> 6 billion or more. I want to know who's on your murder list.
>
> > Once women are educated population growth gets under control. Only
> > Christians live by the credo "multiply and conquer."
>
> > Wait, every Christian sect believes only them will survive Armageddon,
> > so I think God is the mass murderer here.
>

> Since you're "for" killing babies in the uterus, maybe God is calling it
> Social Justice....
>
> God's simply balancing the scales, and creating an equal outcome.
>
> --
> *He has the most who is most content with the least* -Diogenes-

The Christians are a funny species. They want kids to be born into a
miserable world and then deny them healthcare. They can't even play
outside or ride a bike. Kids should be told "Welcome to the Jungle."

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

(One reason we won't be able to steer away from catastrophe is that we
don't even live in democracy like Germany does. They are very
conscious about the environment. We live in gerontocracy and these
issues are "too complex" for them and they will die soon anyway.)

On Apr 12, 5:08 pm, dods...@webtv.net (None none) wrote:
> This is not Senior issues. All of you are NUTS, Get OFF the net .

Senior citizens have a special responsibility for the world because
they vote en masse. If they retired from the world and didn't vote,
they would be excused for ignoring things.

But they are not even able to campaign for bicycle facilities or safe
sidewalks. That's a contradiction some call "gerontocracy."

[RichAsianKid]

> Excuse my copy& paste now:

>
> Bananas and the Revolution
> By Peter Schata
> There is a long political history behind bananas becoming the fifth
> most important food commodity in the world. They were one of the first
> products where no expense was spared to create world markets for this
> unmistakable fruit, turning whole countries over to banana production,
> with stooge dictators controlled by the USA, in what aptly became
> known as 'the banana republics'. Half a century after the big
> Hollywood-style banana campaigns, the banana reflects ever more
> clearly a world economic system concerned only with the kind of
> 'growth' that means control of the markets and massive profits. What
> happens to the environment or to the people, who produce and consume
> the fruit of such intentions, appears to be irrelevant.
>
> In our democracies there is little self-determination, and we only
> need to look at poverty and unemployment in Europe as well, to raise
> doubts as to what is meant by 'free trade'. Such distortions of
> language that hoodwink millions of people into accepting their lot,
> need to be challenged and overturned. New language means new ideas,
> new concepts. This is the revolution. We are this revolution!
>
> Such a revolution is especially important if we are to find ways to
> shift from the current forms of egocentric globalisation to a global
> society that recognises the actual interrelatedness of all human
> beings as well as our interconnectedness with the planet that supports
> us.
>

So all things considered it may not be bad idea if most of the third
world should better be content with themselves rather than envy & emulate.

Good advice, and I agree.

[rst0]

If there is no greed, we wouldn't be human. And humanity would still
be in the stone age.

>
> Good advice, and I agree.

No, it's not good advice. We all must strife for the best in
everything.

[Khambo Lama Dashi - Dorzho Itigilov ,Supreme Leader of Russian Budhist Philosophy at Ivolginsky Datsan ,in Buryatia ,Outer Mongolia.]

Chinese are just Virus ,
infecting the Malay nation ,
infecting the Mongol nation ,
infecting the Burmese nation ,
infecting the Vietnamese nation ,
infecting the Thai nation ,
infecting the Indonesian nation .




n Apr 13, 7:35 pm, "Mao , the HEAD of the CPC , Communist
Party of China , Yellow Race Power Block"

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

Not content where they stand, but to choose a different path.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

Fat dumb consumers in the West are hardly worth emulating. I think we
should look back not to the stone age but to the hunting gathering era
before we became sedentary. The capacity to ROAM FREE is essential to
a well balanced human being. I'm talking about getting on a bicycle
and exploring your world. The Western diet --mostly junk food-- is all
wrong too. So everything needs screening.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 14, 9:05 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

Let me present here a pretty good picture of the West:

On Apr 14, 6:29 am, * US * wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 17:47:09 -0700 (PDT), "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 13, 5:06 pm, * US * wrote:
> >> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:47:43 -0700 (PDT), "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On Apr 13, 1:21 pm, * US * wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 07:53:21 -0700 (PDT), "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >Senior citizens have a special responsibility for the world because they vote ...
>
> >> >> They don't vote, they're stuck with blackboxes, not ballots.
>
> >> >So everything is make believe? A black box is something of a mystery.
>
> >> If it's electronic, it's no election.
>
> >I guess it may called a "virtual election."
>
> >But what matters is the intention.
>
> It's more correctly designated "mass disenfranchisement".

It seems to me that the we are "happy consumers" and the gerontocracy
takes decisions for us centered around Medicare. The young are
disenfranchised and waiting for their opportunity to climb the
economic ladder, which may never happen if we keep getting poorer.

That's a pretty picture.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 14, 9:05 am, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

This is what I'm talking about. Mind you, it's only part of the
equation since "burning the calories" is just as important.
Interesting that to the 7 billion people on this planet, we must add
our livestock...

http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat.html

[baldeagle]

On Apr 14, 6:52 am, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/04/2012 11:05 AM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>
>

.> So all things considered it may not be bad idea if most of
.> the third world should better be content with themselves rather
.> than envy & emulate.
>

If poor countries do not strive for excellence and be contented
with life...they will remain poor forever.

The pursuit of excellence led to great human achievements..
Contentment and complacency led to the down fall of great
empires.

It is a very bad idea that third world nations should be
contented.

They should not emulate the rich countries..they will
fail as they don't have capital nor power to do what
rich countries are doing.

It is better for them to find their own "way"..like what
African countries are doing now.

[RichAsianKid]

>> world should better be content with themselves rather than envy& emulate.

>>
>> Good advice, and I agree.
>
> Not content where they stand, but to choose a different path.

But still not content. Why not content. I even thought that's problem
contentment had with materialism anyway isn't it?

Wow!

Besides what different paths would these saints have choosen -
Materialism? Power?? Or even.... Bananas????

Serious?

[RichAsianKid]

On 14/04/2012 7:23 PM, baldeagle wrote:
> On Apr 14, 6:52 am, RichAsianKid<RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/04/2012 11:05 AM, TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>
> .> So all things considered it may not be bad idea if most of
> .> the third world should better be content with themselves rather

> .> than envy& emulate.

>>
>
> If poor countries do not strive for excellence and be contented
> with life...they will remain poor forever.
>
> The pursuit of excellence led to great human achievements..
> Contentment and complacency led to the down fall of great
> empires.
>
> It is a very bad idea that third world nations should be
> contented.
>
> They should not emulate the rich countries..they will
> fail as they don't have capital nor power to do what
> rich countries are doing.
>
> It is better for them to find their own "way"..like what
> African countries are doing now.
>

But how can contentment be questioned in first place.

Isn't that merely justification, or if you prefer Darwin is ultimately
right? That it's not the right who wins, but the winner who's right?

[RichAsianKid]

>> rather than envy& emulate.

>
> If there is no greed, we wouldn't be human. And humanity would still
> be in the stone age.
>
>>
>> Good advice, and I agree.
>
> No, it's not good advice. We all must strife for the best in
> everything.
>
>

rstowxyz quotes: "If there is no greed, we wouldn't be human. And

humanity would still be in the stone age."

Contentment < greed suddenly.

Thanks.

[Jesus Isa Yeshua Jewish Christ , the Human Scum becomes today the White God after having resurrected from DeaTh in a Nisan car to be an Anti TawHid]

Ja , most of the 3 million Chinese in the Philippines are
faking to be Christians ,
because Chinese in the Philippines need Christian White
protection

n Apr 13, 7:35 pm, "Mao , the HEAD of the CPC , Communist
Party of China , Yellow Race Power Block"
<monsteroooodk...@gmail.com> wrote:

[rst0]

There is never any contentment with greed. Greed begets more greed.
It's a never ending process.

>
> Thanks.

[baldeagle]

On Apr 15, 8:58 am, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 14/04/2012 7:23 PM, baldeagle wrote:

>
> > .>  So all things considered it may not be bad idea if most of
> > .>  the third world should better be content with themselves rather
> > .>  than envy&  emulate.
>
> > If poor countries do not strive for excellence and be contented
> > with life...they will remain poor forever.
>
> > The pursuit of excellence led to great human achievements..
> > Contentment and complacency led to the down fall of great
> > empires.
>
> > It is a very bad idea that third world nations should be
> > contented.
>
> > They should not  emulate the rich countries..they will
> > fail as they don't have capital nor power to do what
> > rich countries are doing.
>
> > It is better for them to find their own "way"..like what
> > African countries are doing now.
>
> But how can contentment be questioned in first place.

Contentment breeds complacency, breeds decline,
breeds hunger and finally death. It should be questioned.

It is hunger for success, hunger for good life, hunger
of the better things in life...hunger for a secured and
better tomorrow ...HUNGRY people can never be
contented.

>
> Isn't that merely justification, or if you prefer Darwin is ultimately
> right?

Yes Darwin is right...hunger is one of most important
factors responsible for man's success in the evolution-
survival process so far.


.> That it's not the right who wins, but the winner who's right?

Evolution has nothing to do with the moral question of
right and wrong...nor rewarding the party who is right.
Evolution is strictly on the basis of survival of the
fittest, the strong and the hungry. Evolution has NO moral...
has no compassion for the weak, the women, the sick
nor the old..

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

The Third World path to progress:

Their elites go to study in America or the UK, go back with their well
learned capitalist approach, bring back the SUVs and Gated Communities
as well, and have the serfs work for them.

Except that China is taking away all their jobs and whole industries
are crumbling.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

> Sounds great .... except that at 7 billion plus
> there's not remotely enough 'free range' within
> which to 'roam free'.
>
> Guess we'll have to wait until after the great
> attrition is finished and the pop is more like
> 250,000,000 max ....

I meant we need to roam free, not the cattle. But perhaps we can adopt
a cow instead of a stupid dog and walk it around. But the Chinese do
not find the dog stupid.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

Bananas just give you the right path to follow when managing an
economy wisely. Here's a question:

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU GIVE A BUNCH OF BANANAS TO A BUNCH OF
MONKEYS?

Every possible political system is represented in the distribution of
the bananas among the monkeys. Having a bureaucracy managing the
bananas is socialism. The bureaucracy mismanaging the bananas is bad
socialism. Marxism is one banana per monkey, except that some monkeys
are better than others. Capitalism will make some some monkeys control
the bananas while others go hungry. Then the WISE MONKEYS must learn
to cooperate and groom each other. THERE'S BANANAS FOR ALL.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

Which is why we should try to be civilized and be above animals.
There's a lot of cooperation among animals too, so it's not all a
fight to the death. Monkeys spend more time grooming than fighting. We
can choose one or the other.

The impulse to fight to the death gives rise to terrorism and North
Korea as well. It didn't work for Germany either, which later chose
the right path of cooperation and peace.

[baldeagle]

On Apr 15, 11:58 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

<comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 15, 6:39 am, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>

.> > Evolution is strictly on the basis of survival of the
.> > fittest, the strong and the hungry. Evolution has NO moral...
.> > has no compassion for the weak, the women, the sick
.> > nor the old..
>
.> Which is why we should try to be civilized and be
.> above animals.

"To be civilized"...is not necessarily being above animals.
The bees and the ants from their perspective are more
civilized than us human. Eg. Ants greet each other when
the meet ...they share the burden when the load is too
heavy...they do not kill like human because of property
or jealous or greed.

[RichAsianKid]

So you're now admitting contentment doesn't lead anywhere while modern
materialistic Chinese _not_ satisfied with themselves seek to emulate,
improve, and progress?

[RichAsianKid]

What you're also saying is blood and soil (food supply being derivative
of course) is a prime driver - rather than blind utopian ideology.

So-called equality - "democracy" included - is actually true for the
dumb, false for the smart, useful for the elite.

No?

[RichAsianKid]

If you think about it and this I readily admit rough and
"heart-wrenching" at least by modern Western standards (btw that's why
truth but not fantasy that so often "hurts") when I say it's precisely
the weak, the sick, the old, post-menopausal women etc have little to
contribute to _any_ society when precisely in evolutionary terms they're
dead-weights.

Of course this sort of ruthless selection can be hebetated in the name
of civilization etc - I bet this gradient will never - ever - go away.

[RichAsianKid]

Thanks for agreeing: it's only by force - and not harmony as spewed
forth by utopians - when Germany was and had to be subdued.

Second and more importantly as illustration for posters here, notice how
you're not so subtly shifting the conversation from an "is" to a "should".

Wow.

And yet the moral imperative don't agree with contemporary facts: When
was the last time you hear mothers gushing about how much they care
about other children _as much as_ let alone _more_ than their own? Even
in elite kindergartens mine's more gifted than yours etc.

That is, _not_ because their own children are objectively better, but
simply because they're theirs.

[RichAsianKid]

On 15/04/2012 8:10 PM, baldeagle wrote:
> On Apr 15, 11:58 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 15, 6:39 am, baldeagle<force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
> .> > Evolution is strictly on the basis of survival of the
> .> > fittest, the strong and the hungry. Evolution has NO moral...
> .> > has no compassion for the weak, the women, the sick
> .> > nor the old..
>>
> .> Which is why we should try to be civilized and be
> .> above animals.
>
> "To be civilized"...is not necessarily being above animals.
> The bees and the ants from their perspective are more
> civilized than us human. Eg. Ants greet each other when
> the meet ...they share the burden when the load is too
> heavy...they do not kill like human because of property
> or jealous or greed.
>

Entomologist EO Wilson once famously remarked on Marxism: wonderful
theory, wrong species. :)

And that tells you why America can be more fitted to individualist vs,
oh say, Japan or Germany, or perhaps Israel.

[RichAsianKid]

Therefore isn't life itself greed?

Why fight against life?

>>
>> Thanks.
>

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

There are many paths in the jungle, and there's more than one out of
it. Some lead to the cliff though and you must be careful what you
follow.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

That's a clever way to put it. The problem with democracy is that can
only blame the sheep, not the shepherd. And you don't know who's
leading who.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

Germany had to subdued because it was out driven into a frenzy. France
has been subdued ever since Napoleon lost in Trafalgar. But some
countries may reach cooperation without war. It's not necessary.
Scandinavia is most civilized without traumatic events.

>
> Second and more importantly as illustration for posters here, notice how
> you're not so subtly shifting the conversation from an "is" to a "should".

For example. I'm rather casual at times.

>
> Wow.
>
> And yet the moral imperative don't agree with contemporary facts: When
> was the last time you hear mothers gushing about how much they care
> about other children _as much as_ let alone _more_ than their own? Even
> in elite kindergartens mine's more gifted than yours etc.
>
> That is, _not_ because their own children are objectively better, but
> simply because they're theirs.

That's human nature, but we should play down the role of the family.
You must come out of the family unit anyway and face your community
and the world. Sometimes the world outside is better than your
family.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 15, 10:26 pm, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 15/04/2012 8:10 PM, baldeagle wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 15, 11:58 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
> > <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>  wrote:
> >> On Apr 15, 6:39 am, baldeagle<force....@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> > .>  >  Evolution is strictly on the basis of survival of the
> > .>  >  fittest, the strong and the hungry. Evolution has NO moral...
> > .>  >  has no compassion for the weak, the women, the sick
> > .>  >  nor the old..
>
> > .>  Which is why we should try to be civilized and be
> > .>  above animals.
>
> > "To be civilized"...is not necessarily being above animals.
> > The bees and the ants from their perspective are more
> > civilized than us human.  Eg. Ants greet each other when
> > the meet ...they share the burden when the load is too
> > heavy...they do not kill like human because of property
> > or jealous or greed.
>
> Entomologist EO Wilson once famously remarked on Marxism: wonderful
> theory, wrong species.  :)
>
> And that tells you why America can be more fitted to individualist vs,
> oh say, Japan or Germany, or perhaps Israel.

He also said this:

"Wilson came to believe that humans, like ants, are genetically
designed to live within natural limits. It is becoming increasingly
obvious that those limits are directly related to reduced energy use
and consumption of natural resources, family planning, and COOPERATION
among societies, rather than competition."

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005121653

[prophet Muhammud the Human Scum who fucked teenage girl' s cunt hole , was a Strong Propagandist for AllAh ' s Tawhid]

On Apr 15, 8:05 am, "Jesus Isa Yeshua Jewish Christ , the Human Scum
becomes today the White God after having resurrected from DeaTh

Chinese will always be Chinese ,
No Matter where they Chinese are ,
or
where they Chinese have migrated to ,
like in
Singapore ,
Malaysia ,
Indonesia ,
Australia,
Papua ,
South Pole .

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

On Apr 16, 6:10 pm, Mr.B1ack <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
> "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >On Apr 15, 10:26 pm, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 15/04/2012 8:10 PM, baldeagle wrote:
>

> >> > On Apr 15, 11:58 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

> Crack open the history books though and you'll see
> that the 'cooperation' only applies within a given
> society. When two societies meet, they tend to
> fight to the death.
>
> And in overly large and diverse societies, internal
> cooperation isn't even guarenteed unless the king
> points a spear at everyones bellies.

Interesting thought. So the whole idea of the European Union, the
nations working together and people moving freely is oppose to human
nature.

I think it is the ELITES that give these signals --cooperation or
aggression-- and the monkeys follow. Forgive my expression of
"monkeys," but I strongly believe that human behavior is related to
animals and that it should be helped by studying animal behavior and
training.

But that's only my humble opinion.

[TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher]

> >Interesting thought. So the whole idea of the European, the nations

> >working together and people moving freely is oppose to human nature.
>

> Yep - and I think we're seeing the beginnings of
> that truth coming to the surface over in eurotopia.
> The cultural and political incompatabilities have
> now been joined by economic woes - and I see hints
> that countries being bailed out think the ones doing
> the bailing (OK, mostly just ONE doing the bailing)
> is starting to get kinda pushy, telling everybody
> how they're gonna act, do business, allocate funds ...
>
> Europe has had one big war after another for 1500
> years. What makes you think 1945 marked the last
> of them ?

It wouldn't be a war but absolute suicide. The last war was suicidal
but it took a maniac to make it happen. People are not that stupid.

>
> >I think it is the ELITES that give these signals --cooperation or
> >aggression-- and the monkeys follow.
>

> Often. Not always, but often. Don't forget though
> that even the 'elites' are mere humans under the
> tailored clothes.

True, but their arrogance and gated communities insulates them from
the real world. Their vision is distorted by short term gain as well.

>
> >Forgive my expression of
> >"monkeys," but I strongly believe that human behavior is related to
> >animals and that it should be helped by studying animal behavior and
> >training.
>

> Most primates automatically form a heirarchical
> social order - with an 'alpha' male and female
> and their close cohorts at the top of the pyramid.
> They bark, everyone else jumps. This seems to be
> the 'default' system for humans as well, be it
> little tribes or gangs or vast powerful nations.

True, but most people are barely aware of this fact and most alpha
leaders have a short stay at the top. It means that the Mubaraks and
Gaddhafis are being replaced by more flexible hierarchies.

>
> When everything else goes to hell, this is where
> we drift to automatically. Indeed it seems to
> require constant energy to even keep the heirarchy
> somewhat diluted, the pyramid short and easier
> to climb.

It ain't that easy to climb. It's just an illusion. If you kill the
illusion, a mafia state may follow.

>
> >But that's only my humble opinion.
>

> It's not opinion if you can back it up
> with historical evidence and anthropological
> observations.

We just got to watch the world news. Nothing new in the jungle,
depressing for the most part.

[baldeagle]

In Chinese society, the old are honoured not because
they are economically productive. There is no need
for 'social security' in China...they are being taken care
of by their children. For this reason, children are very
important in Chinese culture.
In evolution, it is like the bees feeding the Queen bees...
it is the reward for bringing the bees into this world.

[baldeagle]

On Apr 16, 10:26 am, RichAsianKid <RichAsian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 15/04/2012 8:10 PM, baldeagle wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 15, 11:58 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
> > <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>  wrote:
> >> On Apr 15, 6:39 am, baldeagle<force....@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> > .>  >  Evolution is strictly on the basis of survival of the
> > .>  >  fittest, the strong and the hungry. Evolution has NO moral...
> > .>  >  has no compassion for the weak, the women, the sick
> > .>  >  nor the old..
>
> > .>  Which is why we should try to be civilized and be
> > .>  above animals.
>
> > "To be civilized"...is not necessarily being above animals.
> > The bees and the ants from their perspective are more
> > civilized than us human.  Eg. Ants greet each other when
> > the meet ...they share the burden when the load is too
> > heavy...they do not kill like human because of property
> > or jealous or greed.
>

.> Entomologist EO Wilson once famously remarked on Marxism:
.>wonderful theory, wrong species.  :)
>
.> And that tells you why America can be more fitted to individualist
.> vs, oh say, Japan or Germany, or perhaps Israel.

Karl Marx was NOT an economist. He was a brilliant
political philosopher.
He was demonized and persecuted by the establishments
in Europe and by religions because political philosophy.

The philosophy of Marx is still being played out...even
now... in the USA. The class struggle, the 99% vs the 1%
launched by Obama..is an offshoot of Karl Marx idea.

Too early to laugh at Marx...he may yet have the last laugh.



>