The defeat of the racial theorists
fyf...@gmail.com
speaking ngs, particularly in Canada and Australia, proposed a theory,
laughingly childish as it was, that only the WASP know how to create
prosperous societies. And they insisted that Hong Kong was as
prosperous as it had been because that place was governed by the
British ---and what was implied was that if HK had been governed by
the non-British or Chinese, HK would not have prospered.
The subsequent development of the Chinese economy and that of HK after
the handover has once again pointed to the use of free market
mechanism, as opposed to having a WASP leadership, as being the cause
of economic prosperity.
abelard
'racism' is stupidity/ignorance....
so is a too easy expectation that china's advance is without problems
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jul2007/gb20070712_852647.htm
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
fyf...@gmail.com
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:16:28 -0000, "fyfp...@gmail.com"
>
> <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >It was not that long ago when the 'race theorists' in the English
> >speaking ngs, particularly in Canada and Australia, proposed a theory,
> >laughingly childish as it was, that only the WASP know how to create
> >prosperous societies. And they insisted that Hong Kong was as
> >prosperous as it had been because that place was governed by the
> >British ---and what was implied was that if HK had been governed by
> >the non-British or Chinese, HK would not have prospered.
>
> >The subsequent development of the Chinese economy and that of HK after
> >the handover has once again pointed to the use of free market
> >mechanism, as opposed to having a WASP leadership, as being the cause
> >of economic prosperity.
>
> >http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1869718/posts
>
> 'racism' is stupidity/ignorance....
> so is a too easy expectation that china's advance is without problems
So is a suggestion that any nation can advance without problems...
>
> http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jul2007/gb20070712_8526...
>
> --
> web site atwww.abelard.org- news comment service, logic, economics
> energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
> the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
> good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
> only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gaz
We call that a 'strawman argument', we tend to be able to spots such
pathetic arguments from the age of eighteen.
Gaz
Gaz
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:16:28 -0000, "fyf...@gmail.com"
> <fyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was not that long ago when the 'race theorists' in the English
>> speaking ngs, particularly in Canada and Australia, proposed a theory,
>> laughingly childish as it was, that only the WASP know how to create
>> prosperous societies. And they insisted that Hong Kong was as
>> prosperous as it had been because that place was governed by the
>> British ---and what was implied was that if HK had been governed by
>> the non-British or Chinese, HK would not have prospered.
>>
>> The subsequent development of the Chinese economy and that of HK after
>> the handover has once again pointed to the use of free market
>> mechanism, as opposed to having a WASP leadership, as being the cause
>> of economic prosperity.
>>
>> http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1869718/posts
>
> 'racism' is stupidity/ignorance....
> so is a too easy expectation that china's advance is without problems
>
> http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jul2007/gb20070712_852647.htm
'Culturalism', however is not. I am raving culturalist, i believe some
cultures are vastly, vastly, vastly superior to others, I believe that some
cultures are verging on barbaric and should not be celebrated, but wiped
out.
Gaz
Gaz
> On 7 22 , 10 36 , abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:16:28 -0000, "fyfp...@gmail.com"
>>
>> <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It was not that long ago when the 'race theorists' in the English
>>> speaking ngs, particularly in Canada and Australia, proposed a theory,
>>> laughingly childish as it was, that only the WASP know how to create
>>> prosperous societies. And they insisted that Hong Kong was as
>>> prosperous as it had been because that place was governed by the
>>> British ---and what was implied was that if HK had been governed by
>>> the non-British or Chinese, HK would not have prospered.
>>
>>> The subsequent development of the Chinese economy and that of HK after
>>> the handover has once again pointed to the use of free market
>>> mechanism, as opposed to having a WASP leadership, as being the cause
>>> of economic prosperity.
>>
>>> http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1869718/posts
>>
>> 'racism' is stupidity/ignorance....
>> so is a too easy expectation that china's advance is without problems
>
> So is a suggestion that any nation can advance without problems...
Depends on their values and traditions. If it was not for Communism, vast
parts of China would have resembled Hong Kong, thirty five years ago.
Gaz
abelard
not the slightest argument
regards...
rst0wxyz
You're dead wrong. If it was not for communism, China would still be
in a civil war. Chinese people would die by the millions. China was
the land of the living hell. Chinese people were living and working
like animals. If it were not for communism, Chinese would still be
living and working like animals. And Hong Kong would still be under
the British control, and Maccau would still be under the Portugese
control.
rst0wxyz
> > <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> It was not that long ago when the 'race theorists' in the English
> >> speaking ngs, particularly in Canada and Australia, proposed a theory,
> >> laughingly childish as it was, that only the WASP know how to create
> >> prosperous societies. And they insisted that Hong Kong was as
> >> prosperous as it had been because that place was governed by the
> >> British ---and what was implied was that if HK had been governed by
> >> the non-British or Chinese, HK would not have prospered.
>
> >> The subsequent development of the Chinese economy and that of HK after
> >> the handover has once again pointed to the use of free market
> >> mechanism, as opposed to having a WASP leadership, as being the cause
> >> of economic prosperity.
>
> >>http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1869718/posts
>
> > 'racism' is stupidity/ignorance....
> > so is a too easy expectation that china's advance is without problems
>
>
> 'Culturalism', however is not. I am raving culturalist, i believe some
> cultures are vastly, vastly, vastly superior to others, I believe that some
> cultures are verging on barbaric and should not be celebrated, but wiped
> out.
And this is why we have this Iraq War today. We want to impose our
way of life on the Iraqis, and the Iraqis are fighting back. They
believe in their way of life as we believe in our way of life.
john...@gmail.com
I thought Chinese did die by the tens of millions? Are you suggesting
the communists effected a necessary cull?
rst0wxyz
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:40:15 +0100, "Gaz" <gaz...@msn.com> wrote:
> >abelard wrote:
> >> <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> It was not that long ago when the 'race theorists' in the English
> >>> speaking ngs, particularly in Canada and Australia, proposed a theory,
> >>> laughingly childish as it was, that only the WASP know how to create
> >>> prosperous societies. And they insisted that Hong Kong was as
> >>> prosperous as it had been because that place was governed by the
> >>> British ---and what was implied was that if HK had been governed by
> >>> the non-British or Chinese, HK would not have prospered.
>
> >>> The subsequent development of the Chinese economy and that of HK after
> >>> the handover has once again pointed to the use of free market
> >>> mechanism, as opposed to having a WASP leadership, as being the cause
> >>> of economic prosperity.
>
> >>>http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1869718/posts
>
> >> 'racism' is stupidity/ignorance....
> >> so is a too easy expectation that china's advance is without problems
>
>
> >'Culturalism', however is not. I am raving culturalist, i believe some
> >cultures are vastly, vastly, vastly superior to others, I believe that some
> >cultures are verging on barbaric and should not be celebrated, but wiped
> >out.
>
> not the slightest argument
Talk to the Iraqis. Obviously they believe in their way of life. The
Muslims believe in their way of life even when they move to the west,
and they continue to practice their ways.
>
> regards...
>
> --
> web site atwww.abelard.org- news comment service, logic, economics
> energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
> the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
> good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
> only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
rst0wxyz
Yes, they did. It takes time to change. It takes skills and
experience to make changes. At least, Mao Zedong was not afraid to
change, to make difficult decisions to change instead of continuing
the old ways.
>
>
>
> > China was
> > the land of the living hell. Chinese people were living and working
> > like animals. If it were not for communism, Chinese would still be
> > living and working like animals. And Hong Kong would still be under
> > the British control, and Maccau would still be under the Portugese
> > control.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
abia...@my-deja.com
have become sort of today's HK and Taiwan. In 1980, CCP finally
adopted market economy which is 30 years late!!! The first 30 years
of CCP rule was a disaster. Million of Chinese people starved to
death or were murdered during political movements. Thanks god, DXP
changed China.
Mao was a monster and idiot, dont you agree???
FACE
<rst0...@yahoo.com>, wrote
Gaz wrote:
>> Depends on their values and traditions. If it was not for Communism, vast
>> parts of China would have resembled Hong Kong, thirty five years ago.
>
>You're dead wrong.
No, he is live right. Mao is dead and wrong.............
>If it were not for communism, Chinese would still be
>living and working like animals.
What a joke.............
FACE
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Dead wrong, RST!!! If KMT government had ruled China, China would
> have become sort of today's HK and Taiwan.
If KMT had ruled China, China today would be the Chiang Dynasty, and
the Chiang family would be in control of China. China would be a
closed society, closed to the outside world.
> In 1980, CCP finally
> adopted market economy which is 30 years late!!! The first 30 years
> of CCP rule was a disaster.
It takes time and skills and experience to do it right. The communist
and the nationalist didn't have the skills and experience to do the
job right in China and Taiwan.
> Million of Chinese people starved to
> death or were murdered during political movements.
With or without communism, millions would have died anyway.
Starvation was part of Chinese life, and Chinese history.
> Thanks god, DXP
> changed China.
Yes, I agree.
>
> Mao was a monster and idiot, dont you agree???
No, I don't agree. Mao Zedong succeeded where no one did. Mao Zedong
tried. He made mistakes, but his success far outweight his failures.
By all standards, Mao Zedong was a great man.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
john...@gmail.com
Like Stalin and Hitler, yes?
FACE
<rst0...@yahoo.com>, wrote
>> Mao was a monster and idiot, dont you agree???
>
>No, I don't agree. Mao Zedong succeeded where no one did. Mao Zedong
>tried. He made mistakes, but his success far outweight his failures.
>By all standards, Mao Zedong was a great man.
Thank you for defining yourself. You think that the greatest killer in human
history was 'a great man'.
FACE
abia...@my-deja.com
Chiang dynasty has already gone into Taiwan's history for twenty
years. Two Chiangs have done excellent job for Taiwan's economy.
Actually China did well from 1949 to 1957 when DXP and Liu Shiao Chi
were in charge. Then a series of senseless political movements
initiated by monstor Mao starved million of Chinese people to death.
Starvation was not part of Chinese life.
It did not happen when DXP etc were in charge.
If China was under DXP etc since 1949, China has already become #1
economic entity.
Mikein...@aol.com
One of the world's biggest mass murderers was a great man who made
mistakes. Well I think we've got your measure.
rst0wxyz
The problem with you people is, you are looking at the early 1900s
with today's standards. Try looking at it with the early 1900s
standards.
As all dictators or the ones in power as George Bush is today, who
wasn't or isn't killing all its opposition? Saddam Hussein killed its
opposition, and we called him a mass-murderer. George Bush and the
U.S. are killing all our opposition in Iraq, and we call them the
terrorists. Now in reality, who are the terrorists in Iraq today?
abia...@my-deja.com
ordinary Iraqis. Mao did not have intention to starve people to death
but his ignorant and senseless movements starved people to death. You
know he told Chinese people killed the birds and next year locusts ate
all grains that resulted "great starvation". No Chinese rulers for
last 5000 years have done such stupid thing. And you called that
"experiment"??? You must be out of your mind.
john...@gmail.com
What about the standards of the 1940s? You think it might be a good
idea to kill tens of millions of people so that a later generation can
make suitable factory fodder? If that's ok what is wrong with
imperialism? What to you is more important than your life?
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> RST, Saddam Hussein murdered his opponents but he did not murdered
> ordinary Iraqis. Mao did not have intention to starve people to death
> but his ignorant and senseless movements starved people to death. You
> know he told Chinese people killed the birds and next year locusts ate
> all grains that resulted "great starvation". No Chinese rulers for
> last 5000 years have done such stupid thing. And you called that
> "experiment"??? You must be out of your mind.
Like I said many times, get rid of Confucianism, this obedience to
authority, and this would not have happened.
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Absolutely nonsense!
Do you really think so? Have you read any books on Chiang Kai-Shek?
Why do you think Soong Mei-ling stuck to Chiang Kai-Shek all through
her life? Do you really think a family controlled of a nation would
volunteerily give up control? If Chiang Kai-Shek and the KMT were in
China, China today would be like North Korea.
>
> Chiang dynasty has already gone into Taiwan's history for twenty
> years. Two Chiangs have done excellent job for Taiwan's economy.
Oh!! yes? The KMT didn't kill a lot of native Taiwanese when they
started taking over Taiwan? The KMT themselves invaded Taiwan against
the people in Taiwan.
>
> Actually China did well from 1949 to 1957 when DXP and Liu Shiao Chi
> were in charge. Then a series of senseless political movements
> initiated by monstor Mao starved million of Chinese people to death.
That is why I kept saying to get rid of Confucianism. Mao had the
statue to do as he wanted, and the other people (other leaders) let
him because of Confucianism of obedience of authority.
> Starvation was not part of Chinese life.
> It did not happen when DXP etc were in charge.
>
> If China was under DXP etc since 1949, China has already become #1
> economic entity.
Get rid of Confucianism, educate the masses, and China can control its
own destiny. Confucianism got in the way of China's destiny.
abia...@my-deja.com
people to death. Now China has brought Confucisanism back, thanks
god!!!
> > On Jul 22, 2:32 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:- Hide quoted text -
rst0wxyz
> On 22 Jul, 19:32, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> What about the standards of the 1940s?
What about the standards of 1940s? Are you following the standards of
the 1940s?
> You think it might be a good
> idea to kill tens of millions of people so that a later generation can
> make suitable factory fodder?
I have no idea what you are talking about.
> If that's ok what is wrong with
> imperialism? What to you is more important than your life?-
I have no idea what you are talking about. Explain yourself.
abia...@my-deja.com
us, ok!
john...@gmail.com
>
> Get rid of Confucianism, educate the masses, and China can control its
> own destiny. Confucianism got in the way of China's destiny.
>
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Mao did that. He got rid of Confucianism and also starved Chinese
> people to death. Now China has brought Confucisanism back, thanks
> god!!!
It's an unfortunately mistake to bring Confucianism back. It tied
China to the past, and China will remain the China of old, of a land
of the living hell, and Chinese people living and working like animals
once again.
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Is today's Taiwan like today's North Korea or even China??? You tell
> us, ok!
The Chiang family is not in control of Taiwan. Since Chiang Ching
Kuo's children were only half Chinese, the people would not have
accepted his son as ruler. So the line ended at Chiang Ching Kuo.
Chinese engineers have learned the "killer instinct" and brought it
back to Taiwan to transform Taiwan into an industrial island. The
change of time would not permit it to continue.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
PaPaPeng
>Dead wrong, RST!!! If KMT government had ruled China, China would
>have become sort of today's HK and Taiwan. In 1980, CCP finally
>adopted market economy which is 30 years late!!! The first 30 years
>of CCP rule was a disaster. Million of Chinese people starved to
>death or were murdered during political movements. Thanks god, DXP
>changed China.
>
>Mao was a monster and idiot, dont you agree???
Perhaps. One likely consequence would have mainland China an economic
colony of the US where China's progress and economic health would have
been subject and tied to American interests. A big "what if" would
be, "Would the USSR have tolerated such a development?" Japan and
Taiwan's postwar recover might not have happened as there would not
have been a Cold War. Or there would have been a Cold War so
overwhelming that China would have been the frontline vehicle to
conduct it, not midgets like Japan and Taiwan. Taiwan in this
scenario would have been a neglected province of China.
We shouldn't try to rewirte history through "what ifs?" China had
to undergo gut wrenching cataclysmic change to arrive to today. Have
the results been worth it? The answer is YES. We will write that
story when the time comes. China's journey has barely begun.
But you and I are discussing this very strange phenomenon about modern
China's attitude towards her founders. This seems incomprehensible
for outsiders. How did the men who caused so much suffering and
deaths be forgiven for their deeds? And even more astonishing, how
come, in a blink of an eye in hstory, they are even more admired and
respected than when they were alive? The short answers is we know
that we had just lived through the times of great men and great
events. The Revolutionary Leaders of China were such men and the
Revolution the event.
I shall paraphrase as I remember it an Indian newpaper tribute to Mao
on the occasion of his death in 1976. Mao Tsetung was the last in an
Age of Giants.* In the legends of every civilization, when a great
man passed away, great sacrifices were offered to the Gods....
[referring to the Tangshan earthquake 6 months earlier that killed
some half a million)...... We shall not see the likes of such men
again in our lifetimes.
* Mussolini, Hitler, FDR, Stalin, Churchill, De Gaulle and all the
principal leaders of the 20th century and through WWII had preceded
Mao in death
john...@gmail.com
> On Jul 22, 11:47 am, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On 22 Jul, 19:32, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > What about the standards of the 1940s?
>
> What about the standards of 1940s? Are you following the standards of
> the 1940s?
The 1940s in Europe saw the exterminatin of millions of Jews, whcih
seemed a good idea to some at the time.Those standards.
>
> > You think it might be a good
> > idea to kill tens of millions of people so that a later generation can
> > make suitable factory fodder?
>
> I have no idea what you are talking about.
Mao killed tens of millions of fellow Chinese. You think that was a
good idea presumably. Presumably so things could be better for some
future generation. Currently much Chinese prosperity is based on
factory work. I take it you think Mao prepared them to be good
proletarians in that they work hard and don't strike etc.
>
> > If that's ok what is wrong with
> > imperialism? What to you is more important than your life?-
>
> I have no idea what you are talking about. Explain yourself.
You think imperialism was a bad thing I take it. Not because of the
suffering it caused, presumably, because you don't seem to object to
suffering as such.
You think it's ok to kill (cull) tens of millions of people. Would you
feel the same if it were your friends and family who were killed?
john...@gmail.com
Besides the mere killing of the Mao era, there was, by western
standards a great deal of moral degradation in for example the
Cultural Revolution. People descended to cannibalism, denounced their
own families and suchlike. Do you think that sort of thing is all
excusable because it paved the way for China's great destiny? I'm not
blaming you if you do, just struck by your oriental way of thinking.
Gaz
> On 22 Jul, 19:58, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 22, 11:47 am, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 22 Jul, 19:32, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What about the standards of the 1940s?
>>
>> What about the standards of 1940s? Are you following the standards of
>> the 1940s?
>
> The 1940s in Europe saw the exterminatin of millions of Jews, whcih
> seemed a good idea to some at the time.Those standards.
It didnt seem like a good idea at the time, at all. What the Nazis did met
with universal revulsion, the industrial levels of murder carried out on the
jews was condemned the world over.
Gaz
john...@gmail.com
> john....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On 22 Jul, 19:58, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 22, 11:47 am, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>> On 22 Jul, 19:32, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> What about the standards of the 1940s?
>
> >> What about the standards of 1940s? Are you following the standards of
> >> the 1940s?
>
> > seemed a good idea to some at the time. Those standards.
>
> It didnt seem like a good idea at the time, at all. What the Nazis did met
> with universal revulsion, the industrial levels of murder carried out on the
> jews was condemned the world over.
>
> Gaz
I said to some. Presumably those who did it. Together with others who
were grateful for the ethnic cleansing even if they couldn't say as
much.
I read somewhere that Chinese emperors used to induce famines to cut
down the population.
Snake
<john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185137584....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
The disease that infected the potato crops of Ireland in the mid 19th century is
still prevalent to this day. Pesticides have kept it from being ruthless.
The Irish potato famine was also used as a ruthless weapon by the English
against the Irish in those days.
In many ways, the English weren't all that different from the Chinese emperors.
Anarchore
> On Jul 22, 11:55 am, "abianc...@my-deja.com" <abianc...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>> Mao did that. He got rid of Confucianism and also starved Chinese
>> people to death. Now China has brought Confucisanism back, thanks
>> god!!!
>
> It's an unfortunately mistake to bring Confucianism back. It tied
> China to the past, and China will remain the China of old, of a land
> of the living hell, and Chinese people living and working like animals
> once again.
Only Anarchism and local autonomy will save China and the world.
john...@gmail.com
> <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
There many have been some mps who expressed such an opinion. The
famine however was a natural disaster. Genocide was not official
government policy.
rst0wxyz
> On 22 Jul, 19:58, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 22, 11:47 am, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On 22 Jul, 19:32, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > What about the standards of the 1940s?
>
> > What about the standards of 1940s? Are you following the standards of
> > the 1940s?
>
> The 1940s in Europe saw the exterminatin of millions of Jews, whcih
> seemed a good idea to some at the time.Those standards.
We had a long thread concerning this subject in SCC. Please read all
the posts on "Why Hitler killed the Jews". The "extermination of
millions of Jews" was the work of American Jews to set world opinion
favorable for the Jews and Israel. The conditions of war caused
hardship for all, not only the Jews, but also the Germans themselves.
When Germans themselves didn't have enough to eat, it was
understandable that the prosoners wouldn't get any food. No food
meant disease spread easily. Dead bodies were piling up. The
quickest way to get rid of them were to burn them. Read the posts on
"Why Hitler killed the Jews". This thread told me a lot about the
Jews during WWII.
>
>
>
> > > You think it might be a good
> > > idea to kill tens of millions of people so that a later generation can
> > > make suitable factory fodder?
>
> > I have no idea what you are talking about.
>
> Mao killed tens of millions of fellow Chinese. You think that was a
Mao was a revolutionist. He didn't have the skills to govern and
control a government. He meant well, but his ideas were wrong. That
was why I said Confucianism must go as it make the Chinese followed a
leader who was dead wrong, and didn't do anything about. Obedience
was a sin of Confucianism. Blame the Chinese people for being
obedient. If enough of the other Chinese leaders come up to oppose
him, it would not had happened.
> good idea presumably. Presumably so things could be better for some
> future generation. Currently much Chinese prosperity is based on
> factory work. I take it you think Mao prepared them to be good
> proletarians in that they work hard and don't strike etc.
Blame that on Confucianism. Get rid of Conficianism and China will
not have this kind of problem.
>
>
>
> > > If that's ok what is wrong with
> > > imperialism? What to you is more important than your life?-
>
> > I have no idea what you are talking about. Explain yourself.
>
> You think imperialism was a bad thing I take it. Not because of the
If you on the side that is exercising imperialism, it is a good thing,
otherwise, it is a bad thing.
> suffering it caused, presumably, because you don't seem to object to
> suffering as such.
China was suffering for 5 or 6 thousand years. Where have you been?
China was the land of the living hell. Chinese people were living and
working like animals until recently. Let's not just talked about
Chinese people suffering undert communism. Chinese people suffered
under KMT from the 1920 - 1949. Chinese people suffered under
Japanese during WWII. Chinese people suffered from Western powers
from the late 1890 - early 1900s. Chinese people suffered under
British, Dutch, Portugese, Spanish, Americans,... Which part of
suffering you don't understand?
> You think it's ok to kill (cull) tens of millions of people. Would you
> feel the same if it were your friends and family who were killed?
They were not killed. Well, a lot were probably killed because of
past association with the KMT, the rich,...
Most were starvation to death because of wrong decision by leaders.
And I blame that on Conficianism. Obedience is a sin.
.
rst0wxyz
Blame that on Conficianism. Obedience is a sin.
Mikein...@aol.com
>
> - Show quoted text ->
What a laugh! A thread where we are told by some commy living in
fantasy land that some mass murderer was a great man - necessary to
break eggs to make omelettes etc. And the suggestion appears that the
potato famine was deliberate policy.
There's still a few elderly commy men in Britain who go on the same
way about Stalin. Communism was the most evil thing in centuries. It's
dead thank God after around 100m murders.
john...@gmail.com
> On Jul 22, 12:39 pm, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On 22 Jul, 19:58, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 22, 11:47 am, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On 22 Jul, 19:32, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > What about the standards of the 1940s?
>
> > > What about the standards of 1940s? Are you following the standards of
> > > the 1940s?
>
> > The 1940s in Europe saw the exterminatin of millions of Jews, whcih
> > seemed a good idea to some at the time.Those standards.
>
> We had a long thread concerning this subject in SCC. Please read all
> the posts on "Why Hitler killed the Jews". The "extermination of
> millions of Jews" was the work of American Jews to set world opinion
> favorable for the Jews and Israel. The conditions of war caused
> hardship for all, not only the Jews, but also the Germans themselves.
> When Germans themselves didn't have enough to eat, it was
> understandable that the prosoners wouldn't get any food. No food
> meant disease spread easily. Dead bodies were piling up. The
> quickest way to get rid of them were to burn them. Read the posts on
> "Why Hitler killed the Jews". This thread told me a lot about the
> Jews during WWII.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
>
>
>
> > > > You think it might be a good
> > > > idea to kill tens of millions of people so that a later generation can
> > > > make suitable factory fodder?
>
> > > I have no idea what you are talking about.
>
> > Mao killed tens of millions of fellow Chinese. You think that was a
>
> Mao was a revolutionist. He didn't have the skills to govern and
> control a government. He meant well, but his ideas were wrong.
What does it mean to say he meant well? Human life meant very little
to him. He said he was prepared to unleash nuclear war.
> That
> was why I said Confucianism must go as it make the Chinese followed a
> leader who was dead wrong, and didn't do anything about. Obedience
> was a sin of Confucianism. Blame the Chinese people for being
> obedient. If enough of the other Chinese leaders come up to oppose
> him, it would not had happened.
>
> > good idea presumably. Presumably so things could be better for some
> > future generation. Currently much Chinese prosperity is based on
> > factory work. I take it you think Mao prepared them to be good
> > proletarians in that they work hard and don't strike etc.
>
> Blame that on Confucianism. Get rid of Conficianism and China will
> not have this kind of problem.
That is your solution. But do you think China should try and learn
from western political institutions?
>
>
>
> > > > If that's ok what is wrong with
> > > > imperialism? What to you is more important than your life?-
>
> > > I have no idea what you are talking about. Explain yourself.
>
> > You think imperialism was a bad thing I take it. Not because of the
>
> If you on the side that is exercising imperialism, it is a good thing,
> otherwise, it is a bad thing.
Not necessarily. But what makes it a bad thing?
>
> > suffering it caused, presumably, because you don't seem to object to
> > suffering as such.
>
> China was suffering for 5 or 6 thousand years. Where have you been?
> China was the land of the living hell.
Not all travellers seem to have thought that.
> Chinese people were living and
> working like animals until recently. Let's not just talked about
> Chinese people suffering undert communism.
Why not? Are you saying suffering does not matter?
> Chinese people suffered
> under KMT from the 1920 - 1949. Chinese people suffered under
> Japanese during WWII. Chinese people suffered from Western powers
> from the late 1890 - early 1900s. Chinese people suffered under
> British, Dutch, Portugese, Spanish, Americans,... Which part of
> suffering you don't understand?
>
Mao appears in the Guinness Book of Records as the biggest mass
murderer in history. Do you have no sympathy for his victims?
> > You think it's ok to kill (cull) tens of millions of people. Would you
> > feel the same if it were your friends and family who were killed?
>
> They were not killed. Well, a lot were probably killed because of
> past association with the KMT, the rich,...
>
> Most were starvation to death because of wrong decision by leaders.
> And I blame that on Conficianism. Obedience is a sin.
By the standard of which philosophy?
> .
abia...@my-deja.com
Confucianism, they are one of the richest nations in the world.
After 50 years of CCP rule, mainland Chinese lack of civility and
that's why CCP decided to bring Confucianism. Gosh, glad you are not
decision maker in China.
> > On Jul 22, 2:53 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:- Hide quoted text -
abia...@my-deja.com
both were dictators they have made a great contribution to Taiwan's
economy. CKS and CCK were like DXP. Mao was simply a monster. If
you think Mao was a "great man", tell us what he has done any good for
China???
Anyway, you still have not answered the question if today's Taiwan is
like N. Korea or even China. Is it hard for you to answer???
abia...@my-deja.com
On Jul 22, 3:31 pm, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:56:07 -0700, "abianc...@my-deja.com"
abia...@my-deja.com
Revolution, obiedence is a sin and not to obey Mao, you will be put in
jail right away and tortured to death.
You are mad!!!
PaPaPeng
>There many have been some mps who expressed such an opinion. The
>famine however was a natural disaster. Genocide was not official
>government policy.
Yes. But British policy prevented relief and millions of Irish
starved.
abia...@my-deja.com
condemn teachers, Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward... are all
new to China under the CCP rule, why dont you continue to preach these
new ideas, huh???
On Jul 22, 3:17 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 22, 2:53 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:- Hide quoted text -
rst0wxyz
> On 22 Jul, 22:53, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 22, 12:39 pm, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > We had a long thread concerning this subject in SCC. Please read all
> > the posts on "Why Hitler killed the Jews". The "extermination of
> > millions of Jews" was the work of American Jews to set world opinion
> > favorable for the Jews and Israel. The conditions of war caused
> > hardship for all, not only the Jews, but also the Germans themselves.
> > When Germans themselves didn't have enough to eat, it was
> > understandable that the prosoners wouldn't get any food. No food
> > meant disease spread easily. Dead bodies were piling up. The
> > quickest way to get rid of them were to burn them. Read the posts on
> > "Why Hitler killed the Jews". This thread told me a lot about the
> > Jews during WWII.
>
> Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
>From the discussion in this particular thread, it was an eye-opener to
me. It was reasonable and meaningful.
>
> > Mao was a revolutionist. He didn't have the skills to govern and
> > control a government. He meant well, but his ideas were wrong.
>
> What does it mean to say he meant well? Human life meant very little
> to him. He said he was prepared to unleash nuclear war.
Was Chinese lives meant any more up to that point? Chinese people
died by the millions up to 1949, and nobody talk about those deaths.
The KMT and Chiang Kai Shek killed millions, starvation, worked to
death by the millions. The Qing Dynasty killed millions of Chinese.
Zhu YuanZhang killed 30,000 just because of his displeassure of one
minister. He killed another 15,000 at his anger on another minister.
The Mongols killed half of the Chinese population. Qin ShiHuang
killed 75% of the population. Chinese lives were cheap up to that
point.
>
> > That
> > was why I said Confucianism must go as it make the Chinese followed a
> > leader who was dead wrong, and didn't do anything about. Obedience
> > was a sin of Confucianism. Blame the Chinese people for being
> > obedient. If enough of the other Chinese leaders come up to oppose
> > him, it would not had happened.
>
> > > good idea presumably. Presumably so things could be better for some
> > > future generation. Currently much Chinese prosperity is based on
> > > factory work. I take it you think Mao prepared them to be good
> > > proletarians in that they work hard and don't strike etc.
>
> > Blame that on Confucianism. Get rid of Conficianism and China will
> > not have this kind of problem.
>
> That is your solution. But do you think China should try and learn
> from western political institutions?
Of course, learn from everybody, but keep what you think is good, and
throw away what you think are bad. In 1793, QianLong said, "China has
everything. We have no need for these foreign manufactures". That
was the beginning of the free fall of China into oblivion, into the
mud pit.
>
>
>
> > If you on the side that is exercising imperialism, it is a good thing,
> > otherwise, it is a bad thing.
>
> Not necessarily. But what makes it a bad thing?
Do you really know what you are talking about? to live under
imperialism is not a bad thing?
> > China was suffering for 5 or 6 thousand years. Where have you been?
> > China was the land of the living hell.
>
> Not all travellers seem to have thought that.
Then you like living in the land of the living hell?
>
> > Chinese people were living and
> > working like animals until recently. Let's not just talked about
> > Chinese people suffering undert communism.
>
> Why not? Are you saying suffering does not matter?
Why talk only about the suffering under communism? Chinese people
have been suffering the same fate since time memorial.
>
> > Chinese people suffered
> > under KMT from the 1920 - 1949. Chinese people suffered under
> > Japanese during WWII. Chinese people suffered from Western powers
> > from the late 1890 - early 1900s. Chinese people suffered under
> > British, Dutch, Portugese, Spanish, Americans,... Which part of
> > suffering you don't understand?
>
> Mao appears in the Guinness Book of Records as the biggest mass
> murderer in history. Do you have no sympathy for his victims?
Who control the Guinness of Book of Records? They could put your name
in it saying you are the worse SOB in the world. The west will always
look at one who stood up against them as the worse. Mao Zedong
certainly stood up against the West.
> > They were not killed. Well, a lot were probably killed because of
> > past association with the KMT, the rich,...
>
> > Most were starvation to death because of wrong decision by leaders.
> > And I blame that on Conficianism. Obedience is a sin.
>
> By the standard of which philosophy?
Mine, of course. Obedience is a sin. Get rid of Conficianism. Bring
in Western individualism. That is what the world need. That is what
China need, individualism. Stand up on your own.
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> What a nonsense!!! Tell Chinese people during the Cultural
> Revolution, obiedence is a sin and not to obey Mao, you will be put in
> jail right away and tortured to death.
That is precisely why Confucianism must be rid of.
> > .- Hide quoted text -
abia...@my-deja.com
unconditionally and he wanted you to condemn your parents and he
wanted your children to condemn you, have you and your children done
that???
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Taiwan has become a developed nation under CKS and CCK rule although
> both were dictators they have made a great contribution to Taiwan's
> economy. CKS and CCK were like DXP. Mao was simply a monster. If
CKS was just as much of a monster as Mao Zedong or possibly worse.
CCK saw the light on mainland China, he knew he gotta change because
Mainland china was changing.
> you think Mao was a "great man", tell us what he has done any good for
> China???
He did much more for China than any other leader in recent Chinese
history and survived to see "China has stood up".
>
> Anyway, you still have not answered the question if today's Taiwan is
> like N. Korea or even China. Is it hard for you to answer???
If Mainland China were in the control of the Chiang family, do you
they will let it go? Is that the same way as the Kim family control
of North Korea?
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Nonsense!!! Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, Korea... all practiced
> Confucianism, they are one of the richest nations in the world.
>
> After 50 years of CCP rule, mainland Chinese lack of civility and
> that's why CCP decided to bring Confucianism. Gosh, glad you are not
> decision maker in China.
That is because of Confucianism corruption rotten to the core in
Mainland China.
As I have said many time, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, S. Korea have
learned the American ways of "killer instincts" to do things. It has
nothing to do with Conficianism.
>
> On Jul 22, 3:17 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 22, 11:55 am, "abianc...@my-deja.com" <abianc...@my-deja.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Mao did that. He got rid of Confucianism and also starved Chinese
> > > people to death. Now China has brought Confucisanism back, thanks
> > > god!!!
>
> > It's an unfortunately mistake to bring Confucianism back. It tied
> > China to the past, and China will remain the China of old, of a land
> > of the living hell, and Chinese people living and working like animals
> > once again.
>
> > > On Jul 22, 2:53 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Then what's new? Class struggle, Children condemn parents, students
> condemn teachers, Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward... are all
> new to China under the CCP rule, why dont you continue to preach these
> new ideas, huh???
Those were the ideas of an old man losing his grip on power. If
Chinese people didn't have Confucianism teaching, more individualism,
they wouldn't following an old fool to regain his power.
Gaz
> In article <5ghj1kF...@mid.individual.net>, "Gaz" <gaz...@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
>> fyf...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> It was not that long ago when the 'race theorists' in the English
>>> speaking ngs, particularly in Canada and Australia, proposed a theory,
>>> laughingly childish as it was, that only the WASP know how to create
>>> prosperous societies. And they insisted that Hong Kong was as
>>> prosperous as it had been because that place was governed by the
>>> British ---and what was implied was that if HK had been governed by
>>> the non-British or Chinese, HK would not have prospered.
>>>
>>> The subsequent development of the Chinese economy and that of HK after
>>> the handover has once again pointed to the use of free market
>>> mechanism, as opposed to having a WASP leadership, as being the cause
>>> of economic prosperity.
>>>
>>> http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1869718/posts
>>
>> pathetic arguments from the age of eighteen.
>>
>> Gaz
>
> I'm just wondering where you were when posters were predicting the decline
> of
> Hong Kong after the take over. Ah of course. YOU must have been one of the
> non-existant strawmen.
I dont think anyone could have predicted what happened, it was in fact a
takeover of China by HongKong.
Gaz
abia...@my-deja.com
still learning Confucius teaching and there's big difference between
mainland Chinese and Taiwanese in terms of civility.
abia...@my-deja.com
preach those to your children? That will be fun for rst's children
condemn him!!!
> > On Jul 22, 3:17 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:- Hide quoted text -
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Your "great man" Mao did that and he wanted you obey him
> unconditionally and he wanted you to condemn your parents and he
> wanted your children to condemn you, have you and your children done
> that???
I repeat. Get rid of Confucianism, teach individualism to Chinese
children, and no one would follow a mad-man. You just gave more
reason to get rid of conficianism.
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> BS!!! CCP got rid of Confucianism long time ago!!! We in Taiwan are
> still learning Confucius teaching and there's big difference between
> mainland Chinese and Taiwanese in terms of civility.
And Taiwan's manufacturing are moving to Mainland China. That is how
much civility means. Taiwan is getting less and less of a point of
contention. As LT Lee said, Taiwan is getting irrelivent.
abia...@my-deja.com
him!!!
> > On Jul 22, 7:01 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:- Hide quoted text -
abia...@my-deja.com
year and that's why mainland Chinese want to come to Taiwan to be gold
digger.
> > On Jul 22, 7:11 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:- Hide quoted text -
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Taiwan has USD 60 billion trade surplus from trade with China each
> year and that's why mainland Chinese want to come to Taiwan to be gold
> digger.
That's a very small potato compare to trillions the Mainland China is
holding against the U.S. Treasury.
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> CCP got rid of Confucianism and created those "new ideas" why dont you
> preach those to your children? That will be fun for rst's children
> condemn him!!!
My children? They don't give a damn about China. My son can't speak
Chinese. He speaks French, and Italian.
My daughters used to be able to speak Mandarin and Cantonese. I don't
think they can speak them now since their granmother died in 1990. My
grandchildren don't know where China is. They only know the Silicon
Valley, Disneyland,...
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Didnt you say Mao was a great man? Mao asked all Chinese to obey
> him!!!
He was a great man as a revolutionary. He succeeded where no one
did. Like I said many time, get rid of Confucianism and instill
individualism to China. There will be no talk of obeying anyone.
rst0wxyz
Have you laugh long enough?
> A thread where we are told by some commy living in
> fantasy land that some mass murderer was a great man - necessary to
Which man in past history hadn't killed? Henry VIII killed each of
his wives to marry another.
> break eggs to make omelettes etc. And the suggestion appears that the
> potato famine was deliberate policy.
>
> There's still a few elderly commy men in Britain who go on the same
> way about Stalin. Communism was the most evil thing in centuries. It's
It's one of humanity's experiment with the form of government.
> dead thank God after around 100m murders
How many people the so called democracy killed? Care to count them?
Snake
"rst0wxyz" <rst0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1185148757....@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
China, without the Mao days, would have been several countries fighting it out.
Not that he was a good guy or his policies were valid.
But you know that there are a lot of Chinese, not all of them speak the same
dialects or can even understand each other.
fyf...@gmail.com
If all these 'great' men like Mussolini, Hitler, FDR, Stalin, and Mao
had taken an introductory course of free economics from Milton
Friedman, they would not have been 'great' any more. It is due to
their ignorance of economics that they became 'great' men....hahaha
Am I correct in saying that? I may not, because when China was being
invaded by the British opium traders, both Great Briton and China were
capitalist by nature.
fyf...@gmail.com
> On Jul 22, 10:51 am, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 22 Jul, 18:47, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 22, 10:41 am, "Gaz" <gaz...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > > > fyfp...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On 7 22 , 10 36 , abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
> > > > >> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:16:28 -0000, "fyfp...@gmail.com"
>
> > > > >>> It was not that long ago when the 'race theorists' in the English
> > > > >>> speaking ngs, particularly in Canada and Australia, proposed a theory,
> > > > >>> laughingly childish as it was, that only the WASP know how to create
> > > > >>> prosperous societies. And they insisted that Hong Kong was as
> > > > >>> prosperous as it had been because that place was governed by the
> > > > >>> British ---and what was implied was that if HK had been governed by
> > > > >>> the non-British or Chinese, HK would not have prospered.
>
> > > > >>> The subsequent development of the Chinese economy and that of HK after
> > > > >>> the handover has once again pointed to the use of free market
> > > > >>> mechanism, as opposed to having a WASP leadership, as being the cause
> > > > >>> of economic prosperity.
>
> > > > >>>http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1869718/posts
>
> > > > >> so is a too easy expectation that china's advance is without problems
>
> > > > > So is a suggestion that any nation can advance without problems...
>
> > > > Depends on their values and traditions. If it was not for Communism, vast
> > > > parts of China would have resembled Hong Kong, thirty five years ago.
>
> > > You're dead wrong. If it was not for communism, China would still be
> > > in a civil war. Chinese people would die by the millions.
>
> > the communists effected a necessary cull?
>
> Yes, they did. It takes time to change. It takes skills and
> experience to make changes. At least, Mao Zedong was not afraid to
> change, to make difficult decisions to change instead of continuing
> the old ways.
The Chinese people stopped dying by the millions because WW2 stopped.
WW2 greatly weakened KMT and the CCP was left to demonstrate its
competence in running the country. Mao proved himself to be a genius
military strategist but a poor economic manager.
Mao chose the wrong ideology.
Thus when it comes down to blame, it was the ideology that screwed up
China for 50 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > China was
> > > the land of the living hell. Chinese people were living and working
> > > like animals. If it were not for communism, Chinese would still be
> > > living and working like animals. And Hong Kong would still be under
> > > the British control, and Maccau would still be under the Portugese
> > > control.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- -
>
> - -- -
>
> - -
fyf...@gmail.com
> On Jul 22, 11:10 am, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 22 Jul, 19:05, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 22, 10:56 am, "abianc...@my-deja.com" <abianc...@my-deja.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Dead wrong, RST!!! If KMT government had ruled China, China would
> > > > have become sort of today's HK and Taiwan.
>
> > > the Chiang family would be in control of China. China would be a
> > > closed society, closed to the outside world.
>
> > > > In 1980, CCP finally
> > > > adopted market economy which is 30 years late!!! The first 30 years
> > > > of CCP rule was a disaster.
>
> > > and the nationalist didn't have the skills and experience to do the
> > > job right in China and Taiwan.
>
> > > > Million of Chinese people starved to
> > > > death or were murdered during political movements.
>
> > > Starvation was part of Chinese life, and Chinese history.
>
> > > > Thanks god, DXP
> > > > changed China.
>
>
> > > > Mao was a monster and idiot, dont you agree???
>
> > > tried. He made mistakes, but his success far outweight his failures.
> > > By all standards, Mao Zedong was a great man.
>
> > Like Stalin and Hitler, yes?
>
> The problem with you people is, you are looking at the early 1900s
> with today's standards. Try looking at it with the early 1900s
> standards.
Mao was opposed by other party members because what he did in the
economic front was brutal by even the early 1900s standard. I think
DXP was a much greater man than Mao.
>
> As all dictators or the ones in power as George Bush is today, who
> wasn't or isn't killing all its opposition? Saddam Hussein killed its
> opposition, and we called him a mass-murderer. George Bush and the
> U.S. are killing all our opposition in Iraq, and we call them the
> terrorists. Now in reality, who are the terrorists in Iraq today?
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > On Jul 22, 1:47 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 22, 10:41 am, "Gaz" <gaz...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > fyfp...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On 7 22 , 10 36 , abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:16:28 -0000, "fyfp...@gmail.com"
>
> > > > > > >> <fyfp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >>> It was not that long ago when the 'race theorists' in the English
> > > > > > >>> speaking ngs, particularly in Canada and Australia, proposed a theory,
> > > > > > >>> laughingly childish as it was, that only the WASP know how to create
> > > > > > >>> prosperous societies. And they insisted that Hong Kong was as
> > > > > > >>> prosperous as it had been because that place was governed by the
> > > > > > >>> British ---and what was implied was that if HK had been governed by
> > > > > > >>> the non-British or Chinese, HK would not have prospered.
>
> > > > > > >>> The subsequent development of the Chinese economy and that of HK after
> > > > > > >>> the handover has once again pointed to the use of free market
> > > > > > >>> mechanism, as opposed to having a WASP leadership, as being the cause
> > > > > > >>> of economic prosperity.
>
> > > > > > >>>http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1869718/posts
>
> > > > > > >> 'racism' is stupidity/ignorance....
> > > > > > >> so is a too easy expectation that china's advance is without problems
>
> > > > > > > So is a suggestion that any nation can advance without problems...
>
> > > > > > Depends on their values and traditions. If it was not for Communism, vast
> > > > > > parts of China would have resembled Hong Kong, thirty five years ago.
>
> > > > > You're dead wrong. If it was not for communism, China would still be
> > > > > in a civil war. Chinese people would die by the millions. China was
> > > > > the land of the living hell. Chinese people were living and working
> > > > > like animals. If it were not for communism, Chinese would still be
> > > > > living and working like animals. And Hong Kong would still be under
> > > > > the British control, and Maccau would still be under the Portugese
> > > > > control.- -
abia...@my-deja.com
has brought Confucianism back to teach its people civility.
abia...@my-deja.com
Revolution. DXP was not lucky so his eldest son was pushed out of
window and became a cripple for the rest of his life. That's your
great man Mao's achievement.
> > On Jul 22, 7:13 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:- Hide quoted text -
rst0wxyz
No, it didn't. The Chinese people still died by the millions from
1945 to 1949 because of the civil war, starvation and brutality by
other people. I remember very well the family living in the house on
our left side died of starvation. The women in the villege realized
the family was dying of starvation and they brought food for the
family. The man locked the house and refused to answer the door. A
few days later, they broke down the door and brought the bodies out.
In 2003, when I visited the village again, there were only walls left
on that house. Everything else had falling down.
> WW2 greatly weakened KMT and the CCP was left to demonstrate its
> competence in running the country.
No, that's not true either. The KMT were saving their arms and men to
fight the communist. They didn't fight the Japanese at all, the
communist did. That was why the communist had the skills and
experience while the KMT didn't. Also corruption and infighting
caused whole armies to switch sides to the communist.
> Mao proved himself to be a genius
> military strategist
That's not true either. Mao was a communist theoretician. Chu Teh
was the military commander.
> but a poor economic manager.
> Mao chose the wrong ideology.
>
> Thus when it comes down to blame, it was the ideology that screwed up
> China for 50 years.
It was Confucianism that screwed up China for 50 years. If the
Chinese were not so obedient to authority, they would not have
followed Mao into chaotic schemes.
abia...@my-deja.com
(largest in the world) but not trillion USD of US Treasury. And
Taiwan has 300 billion foreign reserve (#3 largest in the world) with
population of 23 million. And China? 1.3 billion people. So
mainland Chinese want to come to Taiwan to do whatever they can
including prostitution.
> > On Jul 22, 7:33 pm, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:- Hide quoted text -
rst0wxyz
> On 7 23 , 2 32 , rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Mao was opposed by other party members because what he did in the
> economic front was brutal by even the early 1900s standard. I think
> DXP was a much greater man than Mao.
Both were great men in their respective area, Mao as a great
revolutionary leader, while Deng Xiao Ping as a great reformer with
excellent foresight. As Deng Xiao Ping had said:
I know a great economy when I see one.
rst0wxyz
Emperor QianLong was complacent and lack foresight when the British
presented him with England's newest and the latest invention of
machinery at the very beginning of the industrial revolution. In less
than 50 years, China was under attack with the very same machineries
that Emperor QianLong rejected. Thus was the beginning of China's
downfall from grace.
England had its Magna Carta in 1215 and the beginning of
Constitutional rule of law. China is still discussion its Magna
Carta. It may take a while.
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> You have to speak louder so that Hu JT can hear you. But now China
> has brought Confucianism back to teach its people civility.
And China will revert back to the land of living hell, and living and
working like animals.
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Your family was lucky and did not have to go through the Cultural
> Revolution. DXP was not lucky so his eldest son was pushed out of
> window and became a cripple for the rest of his life. That's your
> great man Mao's achievement.
Get rid of Confucianism, and China won't have this kind of problems.
It was Confucianism's obedience to authority that caused this problem.
abia...@my-deja.com
as CCP has expected.
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> You are confused. China has trillion USD foreign reserve in the bank
> (largest in the world) but not trillion USD of US Treasury. And
> Taiwan has 300 billion foreign reserve (#3 largest in the world) with
> population of 23 million. And China? 1.3 billion people. So
> mainland Chinese want to come to Taiwan to do whatever they can
> including prostitution.
I am not a finance expert. That is why I stay away from finance
posts. To me, money is money, reserve or treasury.
abia...@my-deja.com
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Then you should promote democracy for China.
China still has the Confucianism mentality. Democracy will only cause
chaos and dissension, and china will break into civil war. Today,
China is best to rule by dictatorship.
ltl...@hotmail.com
Mao's greatness as well as mistakes have nothing to do with
economics.
To udnerstand Mao and his behavior after the establishment of the
PRC,
I recommand a short book with the title of "THE TRUTH BELIEVER" by
Eric Hoffer.
>
> Am I correct in saying that? I may not, because when China was being
> invaded by the British opium traders, both Great Briton and China were
> capitalist by nature.- Hide quoted text -
rst0wxyz
> as CCP has expected.
It will take decades to bring civility to China. Chinese mentality is
Confucianism, like PaPaPend. He still thinks Confucianism.
abia...@my-deja.com
are not making any sense.
abia...@my-deja.com
achievement of Cultural Revolution, Great Starvation etc.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Dictatorship means everyone has to obey the dictator, the CCP. You
> are not making any sense.
In this case, dictatorship means the Politburo, whoever are the
members of the Politburo. they make the laws, and pass on to the
province to implement and enforce.
abia...@my-deja.com
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> Anything new about Mao in that book that we dont know except his
> achievement of Cultural Revolution, Great Starvation etc.
If you want to read about Mao Zedong, I recommend the following books:
China - 100 years of revolution by Harrison E. Salisbury
Mao Zse-Tung, the man and the myth by Eric Chou
Read Star over China by Edgar Snow
rst0wxyz
wrote:
> And people have to obey. Didnt you say obedience is a sin?
You don't have to obey. You can start your own revolution to
overthrow them. If you succeed, I say to you that you, too, have
earned your right to rule China.
abia...@my-deja.com
first 30 years because of him.
abia...@my-deja.com
Mao rule. Thanks for enlightening me, it's a wake up call. Glad I
was in Taiwan and did not have to go through this. Glad Taiwan has
refused unification. Thanks alot!!!
rst0wxyz
> first 30 years because of him.
Again, it could be worse. It might become the Chiang Dynasty and live
like North Korea, or maybe like Pakistan, or India. Or it might still
be fighting in a civil war where millions had died for the last 62
years. The old saying is:
If life hands you a lemon, make lemonade.
>
> On Jul 23, 12:04 am, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 22, 8:48 pm, "abianc...@my-deja.com" <abianc...@my-deja.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Anything new about Mao in that book that we dont know except his
> > > achievement of Cultural Revolution, Great Starvation etc.
>
> > If you want to read about Mao Zedong, I recommend the following books:
>
> > China - 100 years of revolution by Harrison E. Salisbury
> > Mao Zse-Tung, the man and the myth by Eric Chou
> > Read Star over China by Edgar Snow- Hide quoted text -
abia...@my-deja.com
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
PaPaPeng
Except for Taiwanese like yourself and some Hongkongers the Chinese on
the mainland and the Chinese overseas have attributed to Mao and his
revolutionaries the resurrection of China. As with all great
achievements we must take the bad with the good. Their mistakes were
an integral part of their achievements, their losses instrumental to
their final vcictory The results speak for themselves.
abian...@gmail.com
a decade ago. They hate communist.
Not sure what do you mean by "achievements", "final victory"?
On Jul 23, 1:11 am, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 04:27:20 -0000, "abianc...@my-deja.com"
> their final vcictory The results speak for themselves.- Hide quoted text -
fyf...@gmail.com
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 04:27:20 -0000, "abianc...@my-deja.com"
>
>
>
>
>
> <abianc...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >I dont have to read. He brought disaster to China. China wasted
> >first 30 years because of him.
>
> >On Jul 23, 12:04 am, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 22, 8:48 pm, "abianc...@my-deja.com" <abianc...@my-deja.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > Anything new about Mao in that book that we dont know except his
> >> > achievement of Cultural Revolution, Great Starvation etc.
>
> >> If you want to read about Mao Zedong, I recommend the following books:
>
> >> China - 100 years of revolution by Harrison E. Salisbury
> >> Mao Zse-Tung, the man and the myth by Eric Chou
> >> Read Star over China by Edgar Snow
>
> Except for Taiwanese like yourself and some Hongkongers the Chinese on
> the mainland and the Chinese overseas have attributed to Mao and his
> revolutionaries the resurrection of China.
How about Chiang Kei Shek?
As with all great
> achievements we must take the bad with the good. Their mistakes were
> an integral part of their achievements, their losses instrumental to
> their final vcictory The results speak for themselves.- -
>
> - -
lechergod
beginning !!!!
<abian...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Most of old established oversea Chinese communities were pro-KMT even
> a decade ago. They hate communist.
>
> Not sure what do you mean by "achievements", "final victory"?
>
>
> On Jul 23, 1:11 am, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 04:27:20 -0000, "abianc...@my-deja.com"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <abianc...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> >I dont have to read. He brought disaster to China. China wasted
>> >first 30 years because of him.
>>
>> >On Jul 23, 12:04 am, rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> On Jul 22, 8:48 pm, "abianc...@my-deja.com" <abianc...@my-deja.com>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> > Anything new about Mao in that book that we dont know except his
>> >> > achievement of Cultural Revolution, Great Starvation etc.
>>
>> >> If you want to read about Mao Zedong, I recommend the following books:
>>
>> >> China - 100 years of revolution by Harrison E. Salisbury
>> >> Mao Zse-Tung, the man and the myth by Eric Chou
>> >> Read Star over China by Edgar Snow
>>
>> Except for Taiwanese like yourself and some Hongkongers the Chinese on
>> the mainland and the Chinese overseas have attributed to Mao and his
>> revolutionaries the resurrection of China. As with all great
>> achievements we must take the bad with the good. Their mistakes were
>> an integral part of their achievements, their losses instrumental to
abian...@gmail.com
flags.
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
PaPaPeng
>Most of old established oversea Chinese communities were pro-KMT even
>a decade ago. They hate communist.
If one lived in a western country or had a British colonial legacy
(Malaysia, Singapore, Hongkong, other former colonies, it was
politically incorrect if not downright dangerous to show any feelings
or sympathy for Communist China or Mao up till the late 80s. To have
done so in school would have marked one for life as a communist
sympathizer and therefore banned from further education or good jobs.
If employed one could be fired, face possible imprisonment on trumped
up charges and certainly communist sympathies was a career killer.
For that reason the only way to express love of country (China) was to
show the portrait of Sun Yat Sen and fly the KMT flag. There was and
is certainly no love for anything CKS and Taiwan was never taken as
anything else other than a renegade province of China. There was no
such thing as pro-Taiwan which would have by implication meant to
suppport the KMT's return to govern China.
By the mid 80s there was a lovefest for things Chinese and China from
the West. The mainland Chinese flag quickly displaced the KMT flag in
Chinese celebrations and festivities. Portraits of Sun Yat Sen
disappeared although Mao's did not appear in his place. Flags and
portraits are no longer needed as China has regained its place,
importance and respect in the world. Go to any gathering of overseas
Chinese. You will not find a single non Taiwanese having an opinion
on Taiwan other than it should give up any thoughts of independence
and that Taiwan should reunite with China soonest possible. But
mostly no one brings up any discussion on Taiwan affairs and any
Taiwanese present knows well enough to leave it be. Introduce
yourself as from Taiwan and you will be welcome as another Chinese.
Call yourself Taiwanese who happens to be ethnic Chinese and watch the
change in attitude.