Taiwan is able to defeat any invasion by Taiwan
Thomas Lau
> declaration. I am confident that China dares not to make
> any move and more confident that Taiwan will be able to defeat
> China if China is stupid enough to make any.
On top of that, do you think that the international community would let
China invade and occupy Taiwan? Isn't it quite clear now why China made
such a big fuss during NATO's military campaign against Serb forces that
occupied Kosovo?
> Of course China may adopt terrorist strategy by shooting missiles
> into Taipei, which can be easily deterred by adopting anti-terrorist
> straetgy of shooting the same thing into Beijing, Shanghai ,and HK.
Hongkongers, it's now time to wake up (and smell the coffee, like what the
Americans say)! You are not 'caught in the middle', like you used to be.
Now you are firmly on one side only, on the side of the monster called the
People's Republic of China!
********************************************
CHILDREN OF THE REPUBLIC, NEVER FORGET......
Visit http://www.june4.org/
Global Petition Campaign
for the 10th Anniversary of June 4 Tiananmen
(In English, Chinese, French and Spanish)
********************************************
Francis Y.F.Poon
>
> On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 kin...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > declaration. I am confident that China dares not to make
> > any move and more confident that Taiwan will be able to defeat
> > China if China is stupid enough to make any.
>
> On top of that, do you think that the international community would let
> China invade and occupy Taiwan?
The US would be the first to stand in the way of China's invading
Taiwan. It is unlikely that China would send troops across the Strait
as any failed move from this measure would mean putting the leadership
in Peking in danger. However, PRC could use 'harassment' methods to
disrupt Taiwan but in so doing would invite retaliation from the US in
terms of boycotts, etc. The US business community would suffer from
such a move but I believe the US is well prepared for this. Thus the
players involved in the situation are locked in a impasse. And the
stock market on both side, and in HK would continue to go higher until
the Dow takes a recess.
FP
moremann
fella will be selling McDonald hamburger in LA!
Thomas Lau wrote in message ...
>On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 kin...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> declaration. I am confident that China dares not to make
>> any move and more confident that Taiwan will be able to defeat
>> China if China is stupid enough to make any.
>
>On top of that, do you think that the international community would let
Bill Moore
of PRC who threaten him are running China *only* because they control the
army. Hoping that China conquers Taiwan, subjecting the free people of
Taiwan to the kind of brutal oppression the Mainlanders have to deal with,
is sick IMO. What's also scary is that since CCP hasn't been able to
brainwash Taiwanese as they have their own citizens, and thus Taiwanese
(the ones I know, anyway) understand how awful CCP is, China would probably
have to murder millions of Taiwanese to get them in line. Just speculation,
I know, but regardless of whether China *could* conquer Taiwan, the fact is
that if they do, it will be one of the great tragedies in Chinese and world
history, the crushing of the only true democracy ever to exist in China.
Bill
In article <7mngct$54r$1...@coco.singnet.com.sg>,
--
Remove 'blackhole.' from the address to send e-mail
michael
SWL, you have the happy99 virus. get a virus scanner.
--michael
dragon...@hotmail.com
Why are "dissidents" in America so quiet about
Taiwan province issue.
If they believe that Taiwan should be independent, why
don't they speak up as they are "free" to talk in America.
They don't because they will discredit themselves among
the Chinese population.
If they believe that Taiwan should remain a Chinese
province, why they don't say so. They don't dare to say
so because their American masters will give them a big
kick on their ass.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
r...@pspl.com
Re: Taiwan is able to defeat any invasion by Taiwan
In article <7mnmeg$75c$1...@hornet.fibr.net>,
Protector Plus can detect and remove Happy99 trojan and other thousands of
viruses automatically.
Download the fully functional evaluation copies from
http://www.pspl.com/download/download.htm
Demorising
invasion will be undertaken by North Korean Army. It seems that the CCP is
concerned that the Serbian model they advocated in Kosovo might not work
because the Chinese situation would call for Chinese killing Chinese.
Tiannenmen is one thing, cleansing millions of "Nationalist" from the island
will be another level.
Dee
China "dares" to make a move, it is whether China wants to make the
move!!!!! You say that Taiwan will be able to defeat China? With what?
Taiwan has nothing! Oh, I forgot! They have the big fat ugly USA as their
back-up. Well, news flash!! That's because Taiwan is the USA's dog and I
suppose if my dog was attacked I would probably help him a little, but not
to the extent of sacrificing anything.
Wake up Taiwan! You are using other people to fight back at your family.
DPHUNTSMAN
>Taiwan has nothing!
Not true. China currently does not have the capability, for example, to
successfully invade Taiwan; they don't even have air superiority over Taiwan.
(That is changing, however, as China continues its aggressive and threatening
military buildup). But, short of going nuclear and raising shipping costs,
there's little the PRC can do...for now.
That's why Lee made his move now.
Dave
"It was a time when men were men, and Presidents knew what they were doing".
-- of the time of Lewis and Clark
Jim Walsh
wrote:
>I am willing to bet my last shirt that Taiwan will be clobbered and that Lee
>fella will be selling McDonald hamburger in LA!
Cool. How about betting US$ 1,000? We would need to find a neutral
stake holder and pick a date by which the condition you predict has
been met (or not).
I am prepared to offer 10 to 1 odds. (That is, you put up US$ 100 for
my US$ 1000.)
Do we have a bet?
Love, Jim
"These young men and women are only a small number of the
victims of June 4 that I know of. Relatives of some victims, fearful
of official pressure, are unwilling to reveal publicly the names
and circumstances of the deaths of their loved ones, ....The
government has adopted a policy of forbidding discussion and
making people forget June 4." Ding Zilin, The China Reader,
Pages 210-211.
Jim Walsh
>From what I understand, most of the killing of the Taiwanese after the PLA
>invasion will be undertaken by North Korean Army.
The PLA invasion force, if the PRC were stupid enough to send one,
would drown in the Taiwan Strait.
Jim Walsh
>ou say that Taiwan will be able to defeat China? With what?
England, alone and blockaded, prevented an invasion by the Germans,
who had a world-beating army, the best technology in the world, etc.
What was England's secret? The English channel.
Invading across water is really, really, really hard to do.
When the allies invaded Europe (D-Day), they successfully tricked the
Germans into defending the wrong part, the allies controlled the sea
and the air. Nevertheless 95% of the first wave died before it reached
the land.
Taiwan Strait is bigger than the channel. The PLA doesn't (and can't)
control either the air above it, or the sea itself. With
global-positioning satellites, the invading force will be watched in
real time.
And for the strongest proof that the PLA cannot capture Taiwan -- they
haven't done it.
DPHUNTSMAN
>would drown in the Taiwan Strait.
Though I've been arguing this side up until now, let me play devil's advocate,
Jim. One of the purposes of the neutron bomb announcement this past week by
the PRC is to try to tell Taiwan that China, at no risk to itself, can kill the
Taiwanese Navy---and individual land military facilities--and without
destroying Taiwan in the process. The implication being, that they wouldn't
NEED an invasion force.
It would indeed be an unfortunate turn of history, if the American weapon
created to save democratic Europe and avoid WWIII, was instead used by the PRC
dictatorship to destroy the first true people's democracy in the history of
Chinese culture. It is, unfortunately, possible.
Dave Huntsman
Tom Goodman
Communists wipe it out.
The govt of Taiwan is a Nazi war criminal. Kuomingdang (Nationalists),
which is Taiwan's govt party, was a strong collabrator of the German
Nazis. The Nationalists supplied Adolf Hilter with tungsten, a strong
metal, to build his super-armoured tanks. Without such tanks, Hitler
could not have successfully invaded others. Hitler, in return,
supplied the Nationalists with Nazi war weapons, uniforms, and
military advisors to kill tens of millions of Chinese cilvilians.
A military man by temperament and training, Chiang sought to
eliminate the Communists by force. He defined his anti-Communist drive
as "internal pacification" before resistance to external attack," and
he gave it more importance than opposition to the increasingly
aggressive Japanese. With arms and military advisers from Nazi
Germany, Chiang carried out a series of "extermination campaigns" that
killed about a million people between 1930 to 1934. Chiang's fifth
campaign, involving over half a million troops, almost annihilated the
Communists. Faced with the dilemma of being totally destroyed in
Jiangxi or attempting an almost impossible escape, the Communists
decided to risk the escape. On Oct. 15, 1934, they broke through the
tight KMT siege. Over 100,000 men and women set out on the Long March
of about 6,000 miles (9,600 kilometers) through China's most rugged
terrain to find a new base in the northwest.
---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia
Copyright (c) 1994, 1995 Compton's NewMedia, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Jason Li
dphun...@aol.comnojunk (DPHUNTSMAN) wrote:
> Not true. China currently does not have the capability, for example, to
> successfully invade Taiwan; they don't even have air superiority over Taiwan.
Blockade is a more probable scenario. It puts a strangle hold on Taiwan
without causing a large causalities on both sides - a move civilized
way. Taiwan has the largest attack helicopter fleet in the world,
mainly AH-1 Super Cobra attack helicopters. They are very effective in
neutralizing ground attacks/invasions. But as long as the PLA enforces a
blockade at a stand off distance, these helicopters are practically
useless.
Taiwan does not have air superiority fighters like the American F-15
Eagles. It is hard to say who will win the sky over Taiwan Straits. I am
sure China will exploit her numerical advantages over the more capable
F-16, F-5, mirages and home grown (with American help) fighters IDF.
At any rate, politically speaking it is not wise for China to mount a
full scale invasion. On the other hand, if it were to happen, I think
Taiwan has almost an impossible task to defend a lone island when you
have tens of thousands screaming soldiers charging towards you from all
directions. You are going to run out ammo before China runs out of
soldiers...
kin...@my-deja.com
"Dee" <xie...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> Thomas you idiot! You've got it all wrong. It is not
> a question of whether China "dares" to make a move,
> it is whether China wants to make the
> China? With what? Taiwan has nothing! Oh, I forgot!
> They have the big fat ugly USA as their
> is the USA's dog and I
> suppose if my dog was attacked I would probably help him a little,
but not
> to the extent of sacrificing anything.
>
> Wake up Taiwan! You are using other people to fight back at your
family.
>
Taiwan has 500 thousands agile and brave soldiers, one of which
at least can match 10 half-illiterate PLA men. It took 300,000
troops to even impose a martial law against unarmed Beijing.
It is out of the question that China will have enough manpower
to subdue Taiwan, let alone mentioning nonpersonnel resources.
The Chinese naval ships are easy to detect and destroy. Once the
large sgips are gone, China really can not do anything. The
Taiwan battle will be nothing but a larger version of Kinmen
Battle fought in 1950 when three PLA regiment were completely
annilated after they landed on the island and then found they
were stranded.
kin...@my-deja.com
jimw...@transend.com.tw wrote:
> And for the strongest proof that the PLA cannot capture Taiwan -- they
> haven't done it.
They are sure they are going to fail. In fact, I guess
that the biggest threst Taiwan face is that too many PLA
soldiers will surrender so that there will be a huge
humatarian catastrophy about feeding POWs.
DPHUNTSMAN
>blockade at a stand off distance, these helicopters are practically
>useless.
However, I don't believe the PLA COULD enforce a blockade of Taiwan. And, keep
in mind a blockade is an official act of war; something the US would almost
certainly do something about.
>Taiwan does not have air superiority fighters like the American F-15
>Eagles.
Not yet; standby, though; Congress is working up a new package right now
>if it were to happen, I think
>Taiwan has almost an impossible task to defend a lone island when you
>have tens of thousands screaming soldiers charging towards you from all
>directions.
PLA is currently not capable of mounting that, though; and, again, the US would
move before they could. Remember, this is not even a US-Cuba style operation;
where Cuba is raft-distance from the US. We're talking a much bigger island,
bigger population, farther from the mainland. The only country in the world
that militarily could even attempt such an invasion is, paradoxically, the
United States.
Jim Walsh
wrote:
>In article <19990717002835...@ng-fx1.aol.com> ,
>dphun...@aol.comnojunk (DPHUNTSMAN) wrote:
>
>> Not true. China currently does not have the capability, for example, to
>> successfully invade Taiwan; they don't even have air superiority over Taiwan.
>
>Blockade is a more probable scenario.
OK, let's examine that possibility.
A ship carrying French wine bound for Taiwan (or Taiwanese computers
bound for France) is sunk in international waters by the PLA.
If you think that the world will permit this, you live in a different
world than I do.
uboa...@my-deja.com
jimw...@transend.com.tw wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:23:43 -0400, "Jason Li" <jy...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <19990717002835...@ng-fx1.aol.com> ,
> >dphun...@aol.comnojunk (DPHUNTSMAN) wrote:
> >
> >> Not true. China currently does not have the capability, for example, to
> >> successfully invade Taiwan; they don't even have air superiority over Taiwan.
> >
> >Blockade is a more probable scenario.
>
> OK, let's examine that possibility.
>
> A ship carrying French wine bound for Taiwan (or Taiwanese computers
> bound for France) is sunk in international waters by the PLA.
>
> If you think that the world will permit this, you live in a different
> world than I do.
>
There is no need to sink any ship. Just lay some mines along the sea routes
and make a public declaration. This is a war zone, enter at your own risk.
Not many people will want to sign up a ship entering a war zone, not many
companies will send their ships there, not many companies will insure the
cargo. Another way is for PLA to escort the ships back to international
waters. You think a commerical ship captain will insist on go to Taiwan
under such circumstance. A third way is to declare the area as missile
testing area for 3 months.
> Love, Jim
>
> "These young men and women are only a small number of the
> victims of June 4 that I know of. Relatives of some victims, fearful
> of official pressure, are unwilling to reveal publicly the names
> and circumstances of the deaths of their loved ones, ....The
> government has adopted a policy of forbidding discussion and
> making people forget June 4." Ding Zilin, The China Reader,
> Pages 210-211.
>
--
We can do great good. We can do great evil.
Choose wisely.
235711131719
Jim Walsh
>In article <37a065ad...@news.transend.com.tw>,
> jimw...@transend.com.tw wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:23:43 -0400, "Jason Li" <jy...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <19990717002835...@ng-fx1.aol.com> ,
>> >dphun...@aol.comnojunk (DPHUNTSMAN) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Not true. China currently does not have the capability, for example, to
>> >> successfully invade Taiwan; they don't even have air superiority over Taiwan.
>> >
>> >Blockade is a more probable scenario.
>>
>> OK, let's examine that possibility.
>>
>> A ship carrying French wine bound for Taiwan (or Taiwanese computers
>> bound for France) is sunk in international waters by the PLA.
>>
>> If you think that the world will permit this, you live in a different
>> world than I do.
>>
>
>There is no need to sink any ship. Just lay some mines along the sea routes
>and make a public declaration. This is a war zone, enter at your own risk.
I repeat, if you think that the world will permit this, you live in a
different world than I do. BTW, mining international waters is not
possible, let alone desirable.
uboa...@my-deja.com
jimw...@transend.com.tw wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:32:14 GMT, uboa...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >In article <37a065ad...@news.transend.com.tw>,
> > jimw...@transend.com.tw wrote:
> >> On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:23:43 -0400, "Jason Li" <jy...@earthlink.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <19990717002835...@ng-fx1.aol.com> ,
> >> >dphun...@aol.comnojunk (DPHUNTSMAN) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Not true. China currently does not have the capability, for example, to
> >> >> successfully invade Taiwan; they don't even have air superiority over Taiwan.
> >> >
> >> >Blockade is a more probable scenario.
> >>
> >> OK, let's examine that possibility.
> >>
> >> A ship carrying French wine bound for Taiwan (or Taiwanese computers
> >> bound for France) is sunk in international waters by the PLA.
> >>
> >> If you think that the world will permit this, you live in a different
> >> world than I do.
> >>
> >
> >There is no need to sink any ship. Just lay some mines along the sea routes
> >and make a public declaration. This is a war zone, enter at your own risk.
>
> I repeat, if you think that the world will permit this, you live in a
> different world than I do. BTW, mining international waters is not
> possible, let alone desirable.
>
Not international waters, just waters around Taiwan area. There are many
conflicts happened around the world in the past 20 years, the world only
selectively interfered a few of them with military force. The world nations
are not that eager to involve in wars where their interests is not at stake.
> Love, Jim
>
> "These young men and women are only a small number of the
> victims of June 4 that I know of. Relatives of some victims, fearful
> of official pressure, are unwilling to reveal publicly the names
> and circumstances of the deaths of their loved ones, ....The
> government has adopted a policy of forbidding discussion and
> making people forget June 4." Ding Zilin, The China Reader,
> Pages 210-211.
>
--
Jason Li
jimw...@transend.com.tw (Jim Walsh) wrote:
> A ship carrying French wine bound for Taiwan (or Taiwanese computers
> bound for France) is sunk in international waters by the PLA.
PLA will target those which will help Taiwan to run its war machines,
oil, coal etc will be on top of the list. Doesn't have to sink the
tankers, just turn them away.
> If you think that the world will permit this, you live in a different
> world than I do.
I am sure China will do this only if Taiwan decides to break away. The
world will not permit the break away, right?
DPHUNTSMAN
>and make a public declaration. This is a war zone, enter at your own
risk.
You mean, just like Belgrade was a war zone? By that definition, there should
be no compensation for the accidental embassy bombing.
Jason Li
> The Taiwan battle will be nothing but a larger version of Kinmen
> Battle fought in 1950 when three PLA regiment were completely
> annilated after they landed on the island and then found they
> were stranded.
Well, that was 50 years ago. All they had then was wooden sail boats and
rifles. The American 7th Naval Fleet cut off the line with great ease.
Actually they could practically run over Chinese boats without firing a
shoot. But it is a totally different situation now.
>
> They are sure they are going to fail. In fact, I guess
> that the biggest threst Taiwan face is that too many PLA
> soldiers will surrender so that there will be a huge
> humatarian catastrophy about feeding POWs.
China has maintained its territorial integrity since 1949, without loosing
an inch of land to anyone. They never had a tradition of surrendering in
masses and there is no indication they are about to start one.
Most people in Taiwan take the threats from the main land very seriously.
There is a good reason why that is so. Of course I know you are not one of
them.
kin...@my-deja.com
"Jason Li" <jy...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Well, that was 50 years ago. All they had then was
> wooden sail boats and rifles. The American 7th Naval
> Fleet cut off the line with great ease. Actually
> they could practically run over Chinese boats without firing a
> shoot. But it is a totally different situation now.
First of all, US 7th fleet did not played a role
in Guningtou battle (Perhaps you have confused 1950 Kuningtou
battle with 1958 Gun battle). Secondly, it is noted that
PLA improved in tech but so has the Taiwan. In fact, in 1950
PLA is fully equiped with captured USA weapons.
>
> China has maintained its territorial integrity since 1949,
> without loosing an inch of land to anyone. They never had a
> tradition of surrendering in masses and there is no indication
> they are about to start one.
Logic is not right. If the fact China had not lost an inch so fat
means it will not lose, the fact that Taiwan has maintained its
independece is a proof it will maintain its indepednece in the future.
Tens of thousand of PLA solders surrendered in the Korean war. And
the current PLA (soon to be composed most of the only-child kids)
will not have so much guts to fight.
> Most people in Taiwan take the threats from the main land very
> seriously. There is a good reason why that is so. Of course I know
> you are not one of them.
Taiwanese are smart and take a correct attitude as your Chairman
Mao suggest: "You should fight a paperdragon as if it were a true
dragon, an iron dragon". But the mainland Chinese are so stupid
in always thinking that China can take Taiwan easily and Taiwan
will be the only one to suffer. Perhaps they don't realize what
an effect a missile hurling into Shanghai, HK, and Beijing will
be like. They don't know that if Taiwan war breaks out, China
will not even have enough troops to fight floods (let alone
mentiong dams alomng the river will be attacked). They don't
know that China will retrospect at least 20 years in economy that
they will have to kiss alreay-achiled well-to-do life good bye.
Finally they never realize that how corrupt their leadership from
the village level up to top are and especially top ones who send
their embezzled money to the West and their own kids to the West
yet they send other ordinary family's "only sons" to be used
as cannon fodders.
Wake up. A Taiwan battle is a disater to ordinary people on both
sides. But to avoid it is not just up to Taiwan to give in but
also China needs to soften its position --- letting Taiwan has
more displomatic space is one way to start.
Tom Goodman
wrote:
>Most people in Taiwan take the threats from the main land very seriously.
>There is a good reason why that is so. Of course I know you are not one of
>them.
Before landing by PLA, Chinese neutron bombs will first wipe out the
Taiwanese military. PLA will have no problem whatsoever taking over
Taiwan. The only thing China has been concerned is that Taiwan's boss
- USA - may start a nuclear war. China is not afraid of wars, but it
would not want the world ends in a nuclear war, something the crazy
USA has no concern whatsoever. Eventually USA will be nuked and wiped
out, according to Bible prophecy.
T*o*m G*o*o*d*m*a*n
kin...@my-deja.com
"Jason Li" <jy...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> You are going to run out ammo before China runs out of
> soldiers...
You assume that the Chinese soldiers are different from
others in that they are more brave if they are not afraid
of death at all. Unlike most Taiwanese males who once served
in the military, most of mainland Chinese knew nothing about
the military life except seeing movies (or perhaps two-month
military training amounting nothing to walking as some
political brainwashing activities).
Just tell you that China even does not have numeric advanatge
once their troops land on Taiwan. Again as Chairman Mao said:
"one without global disadvantage can achive local advanatge
easily". Most of the Chinese troops will not be able to make
their way onto Taiwan and those who make it will by outnumber
by Taiwan troops rather then outnumber them. Most of
Taiwaneees males are well-trained and 5 millions soldiers
can be easily mobilized (You just simply pick up a rifle and
shoot) and PLA will like a wild ox in a sea of fire. It
will be the PLA soldiers who run ouf of ammo first.
Jim Walsh
>In article <3796971f...@news.transend.com.tw>,
> jimw...@transend.com.tw wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:32:14 GMT, uboa...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> >There is no need to sink any ship. Just lay some mines along the sea routes
>> >and make a public declaration. This is a war zone, enter at your own risk.
>>
>> I repeat, if you think that the world will permit this, you live in a
>> different world than I do. BTW, mining international waters is not
>> possible, let alone desirable.
>
>Not international waters, just waters around Taiwan area.
1. You had originally written "along the sea routes", hence my
assumption you meant "international waters".
2. I doubt that the PLA navy could get close enough to Taiwan to mine
their harbors.
Love, Jim
"Every gun that is made, every warship that is launched,
every rocket fired signifies, the final sense, a theft
from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold
and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending
money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers,
the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953.
Sally Pniewski
every country on the planet Earth. That's something not even the US
would want to deal with.
Jim Walsh
wrote:
>In article <37a065ad...@news.transend.com.tw> ,
>jimw...@transend.com.tw (Jim Walsh) wrote:
>> If you think that the world will permit this, you live in a different
>> world than I do.
>
>I am sure China will do this only if Taiwan decides to break away. The
>world will not permit the break away, right?
Of course the world will permit a "break away". Why not?
NoSpamlchow
: On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:37:14 -0400, "Jason Li" <jy...@earthlink.net>
: wrote:
: >Most people in Taiwan take the threats from the main land very seriously.
: >There is a good reason why that is so. Of course I know you are not one of
: >them.
: Before landing by PLA, Chinese neutron bombs will first wipe out the
: Taiwanese military. PLA will have no problem whatsoever taking over
: Taiwan. The only thing China has been concerned is that Taiwan's boss
: - USA - may start a nuclear war. China is not afraid of wars, but it
: would not want the world ends in a nuclear war, something the crazy
: USA has no concern whatsoever.
: Eventually USA will be nuked and wiped
: out, according to Bible prophecy.
Tom, I think you are referring to China, as prophesied by the Bible
scriptures. It is China that will be nuked and wiped out in the last days
of this evil wicked system of things...by both India and Western powers.
You know Americans don't care (some do, but many don't) and Chinese
themselves are too dumb to know the truth. Overseas Chinese are too
greedy and self-seeking, they will ignore warning signs and perhaps assist
in China's downfall...leading to 1/5th of this world's population dying.
Do Chinese in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or Singapore care? They won't believe
Bible prophesy until it happens, but by then it's too late, Tom!
Asians just don't believe the Bible, so why push it!
uboa...@my-deja.com
jimw...@transend.com.tw (Jim Walsh) wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:47:49 GMT, uboa...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >In article <3796971f...@news.transend.com.tw>,
> > jimw...@transend.com.tw wrote:
> >> On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:32:14 GMT, uboa...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >> >There is no need to sink any ship. Just lay some mines along the
sea routes
> >> >and make a public declaration. This is a war zone, enter at your
own risk.
> >>
in a
> >> different world than I do. BTW, mining international waters is not
> >> possible, let alone desirable.
> >
> >Not international waters, just waters around Taiwan area.
>
> 1. You had originally written "along the sea routes", hence my
> assumption you meant "international waters".
>
Did any ship enter the international waters where China destinated as
target zone of missile test last time?
> 2. I doubt that the PLA navy could get close enough to Taiwan to mine
> their harbors.
>
There is a 12 nm distance between the ports and the international
waters.
> Love, Jim
>
> "Every gun that is made, every warship that is launched,
> every rocket fired signifies, the final sense, a theft
> from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold
> and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending
> money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers,
> the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
> Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953.
>
--
We can do great good. We can do great evil.
Choose wisely.
235711131719
Jim Walsh
wrote:
>China has maintained its territorial integrity since 1949, without loosing
>an inch of land to anyone. They never had a tradition of surrendering in
>masses and there is no indication they are about to start one.
That is false. Territory was given to the Soviet Union, for example.
>Most people in Taiwan take the threats from the main land very seriously.
I don't know anyone who doesn't take the threats seriously. But doing
that is NOT inconsistent with preparing to defend Taiwan from the
PLA..
Love, Jim
Premise 1: The Chinese people are not wise enough to choose their leaders
in a free and fair democratic election.
Premise 2: The Chinese people overwhelmingly support the CCP.
Conclusion: The CCP is not a wise choice to lead the PRC.
Joe Bloggs
> : Before landing by PLA, Chinese neutron bombs will first wipe out the
> : Taiwanese military. PLA will have no problem whatsoever taking over
> : Taiwan. The only thing China has been concerned is that Taiwan's
boss
> : - USA - may start a nuclear war. China is not afraid of wars, but it
> : would not want the world ends in a nuclear war, something the crazy
> : USA has no concern whatsoever.
>
> : Eventually USA will be nuked and wiped
> : out, according to Bible prophecy.
>
> Tom, I think you are referring to China, as prophesied by the Bible
> scriptures. It is China that will be nuked and wiped out in the last
days
> of this evil wicked system of things...by both India and Western
powers.
I don't think you can say with certainty that it was China. The Bible
only mentioned the army from the East <- east of Israel, which could be
anyone from Jordan to China. Where did you get India and Western
powers wipping out China anyway.
> You know Americans don't care (some do, but many don't) and Chinese
> themselves are too dumb to know the truth. Overseas Chinese are too
> greedy and self-seeking, they will ignore warning signs and perhaps
assist
> in China's downfall...leading to 1/5th of this world's population
dying.
You know America could well produce the Anti-Christ.... America could be
the anti-Christ - only God knows....
666???? - 6 is the number for human in Biblcal term, and America is the
true representation of democracy, freedom of speech and human rights -
your 666... :P
Anyway, as I have said above, it is not right to presume anything that
are not clearly stated in the Bible. Revelation never mentioned any
country in specific.
> Do Chinese in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or Singapore care? They won't
believe
> Bible prophesy until it happens, but by then it's too late, Tom!
>
> Asians just don't believe the Bible, so why push it!
Says who???? This is not a fair comment. You just do not have a clue.
Look around the Asian countries like Singapore, South Korea and even
Hong Kong and Taiwan. There are many faithful Christian. Look at the
Chinese (mainland China) Christians, they face more prosecution than an
average Joe Bloggs like you or me.
Once again, true faithful Christian should focus more on how to spread
the words to the lost souls given that we can see the end days rather
than spreading the unproven or bias doomsday prophercies....
Just my 2 cents.
saxo
To hell with all those stupid prophesies.
This is the real world. Stop dreaming.......
Image Man
jimw...@transend.com.tw (Jim Walsh) wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:37:14 -0400, "Jason Li" <jy...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> That is false. Territory was given to the Soviet Union, for example.
>
Where? China did not give away anything after Zheng Pao Dao conflict
with Soviet Union.
Jim Walsh
Well, it did so then, right? And the PRC also gave away part to
Mongolia, right?
George Sorrowful
China will no doubt have an edge over Taiwan if war broke out between them.
In theory, China forces are numerically superior that can overwhelm Taiwan.
However, unless they use nuclear weapon to deal with Taiwan, which is
unlikely, they might have to fight a long drawn war instead. China at
present do not have a projection force that can impose pressure. If nuclear
or even neutron bomb is used, which again very unlikely, they have to face
the possible US and Nato incursions. The US and Nato, which also has that
projection force capabilities, as seen in Kovoso, can be the stumbling
block to China invading Taiwan. If China has the projection force that can
threaten north america coastlines, then there is an equilibrium betwee nthe
projection forces of China and the US, as well as the NATO forces. But that
could take China another ten to fifteen years to reach that stage. The only
projection capability that China could use is that ballistic missile that
can reach america whilst invading Taiwan. But that again has not yet been
proven to be accurate. The only country that really test run a ballistic of
such range is North Korea, which indeed shot over the territory of Japan
last year.
China fighter jets including the advance sukhoi jets might not large enough
to deter Taiwanese advanced armnaments. Taiwan not only has more than 150
F16 but also a host of other air to air and ground to air missiles to
thwart any attack. They also have the patriots anti-missiles that could
deal with long and medium range missile onslaughts from the Mainland. Hence
this pyschological war games now being exorcise is another usual scare
tactics to frighten the people of Taiwan into shit. But If the people
remain resolute and steadfast, then this may not work.
The only way that China could score a few points, here and there, is to
engage Taiwan militarily like what the North Korean had done in recent
months - intimidate them and hit and run. By this way they could also put
themselves into a war footing that might create a swift intervention from
the US Navies. Again China does not have these sorts of naval fire power to
deal with the interception that could end up incurring damages on their
own.
Tom Goodman
wrote:
>
>> : Before landing by PLA, Chinese neutron bombs will first wipe out the
>> : Taiwanese military. PLA will have no problem whatsoever taking over
>> : Taiwan. The only thing China has been concerned is that Taiwan's
>boss
>> : - USA - may start a nuclear war. China is not afraid of wars, but it
>> : would not want the world ends in a nuclear war, something the crazy
>> : USA has no concern whatsoever.
>>
>> : Eventually USA will be nuked and wiped
>> : out, according to Bible prophecy.
>>
>> Tom, I think you are referring to China, as prophesied by the Bible
>> scriptures. It is China that will be nuked and wiped out in the last
>days
>> of this evil wicked system of things...by both India and Western
>powers.
No, the Bible does indicate clues to that USA is the most evil wicked
nation of the world! Unless you don't think that the Book of
Revelation in the Bible is talking about our time - this era.
Otherwise, there is very little doubt that USA is the Mystery Babylon,
beast, Mother of All Harlots, whore, and Babylon the great city - the
most evil wicked nation in the end time. Read my verse-by-verse
analysis of Book of Revelation below. BTW, I believe those are the
words of God in the Bible, and that Jesus is the son of God, and that
Jesus is man's only savior and bridge to the almighty one - God. I do
believe we are very near the end time, if not already in it.
The Book of Revelation clearly describes a nation that only resembles
USA as the Mystery Babylon and the Babylon the great city. There isn't
any other nation on earth now fits the descriptions any better.
Carefully read the Book of Revelation.
The Babylon mentioned in Revelation is USA. No other nation fits these
descriptions any better. Please read and see it for yourself.
Notice this is a verse-by-verse commentary. Bible verses are quoted
for you to see the evidences.
[My analysis in brackets]
Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down
from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his
glory.
Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,
Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation
of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every
unclean and hateful bird.
[USA is the world's top producer or market of pornography, pedophilia,
new age religions, rock music, drugs, homosexuality, and you know the
rest.]
Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of
her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication
with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the
abundance of her delicacies.
[Only USA fits this description. It supplies the world with
fornications through Hollywood movies, satanic music, pornography,
cultism, new age religions, democracy, etc. USA leads the world in
commerce. Any changes in American economy also change the rest of the
world. USA can be self sufficient because of its abundance supply of
natural resources. Many nations become rich by exporting to USA.]
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come
out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that
ye receive not of her plagues.
[Don't participate in the sins of USA. Don't support this harlot -
USA. But people are so indulged in her luxuries that they don't heed
to God's warning.]
Revelation 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities.
[It was Statue of Liberty (a dumb goddess idol). Remember tower of
Babel? now they are Mars probe, space shuttles, space hubble,
satellites, space missions, space garbage, pollution...]
Revelation 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto
her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled
fill to her double.
[Double jeopardy. USA will be terribly crushed by God. Notice the
Bible keeps referring to "her" ? What is the female symbol of America
? You guessed it right, it's the Statue of Liberty.]
Revelation 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived
deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her
heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
[That's USA. No other people fit this description better than the
arrogant American people.]
Revelation 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death,
and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire:
for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
[ What can destroy a big nation by fire in one day ? Sounds more like
nuclear explosions. It is reported that USA has about 8,000 nuclear
warheads - the world's largest inventory of nuclear warheads. Maybe
USA will destroyed by its own nuclear weapon arsenal, perhaps a
chain-reaction detonation when it is nuked by other countries ? What
and why is USA doing with all those nuclear weapons anyway ? ]
Revelation 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed
fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and
lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment,
saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in
one hour is thy judgment come.
[USA will be destroyed. Takes only an hour to wipe out USA. If it is
not nuclear destruction then it must be some sort of super strong
earthquakes.]
Revelation 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn
over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
[No more Wall street, no more Wal-Marts, no more big department store
chains. Most of the world's exporters depend on U.S. market. As we all
know, the American market leads and influences the whole world. If USA
stops buying from foreign countries, especially from Asia, the whole
world will be in chaos because world economy is heavily based on
American economy. Now read the following to see that this is indeed
talking about the world's largest commercial center - USA.]
Revelation 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious
stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and
scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all
manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and
marble,
[USA imports these things and it is a big consumer market for these
items. This verse gives clues on this particular nation that imports :
silk and pearl come from Asia, Ivory comes from Africa, Marble comes
from Europe, precious stones (e.g.diamonds) come from Africa and other
types of stones from Asia. Which nation is the biggest importer of
these things outside these continents ? Of course, it's none other
than USA.]
Revelation 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and
frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and
beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of
men.
[USA is the world's biggest trader. Most of the cinnamon in USA come
from China. Nice perfume(odours) and wine from France. Petroleum oil
imported from Middle East. Cars from Japan. Slaves from Mexico. ]
Revelation 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are
departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are
departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
[Americans lost their souls. They are evil-doers. They're hungry for
worldly things and have sold their souls to the devil.]
Revelation 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich
by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and
wailing,
[Many nations are made rich by selling to USA. Exporter countries such
as China (includes Hong Kong and Taiwan), Japan and S.Korea are made
rich by selling to USA. There many more nations that have made rich by
selling to USA. ]
Revelation 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was
clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold,
and precious stones, and pearls!
[ USA is considered as the richest (not just in dollar value) nation
on earth. ]
Revelation 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought.
And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and
as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
[ Destroyed in one short hour ! If it's not nuclear destruction than
it must be something as bad. USA is surrounded by seas on three sides.
It depends on ships in its international trade. ]
Revelation 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning,
saying, What city is like unto this great city!
[Exactly ! which nation is like unto this "great" nation of USA ?]
Revelation 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping
and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made
rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in
one hour is she made desolate.
[ Sure enough, every major sea cargo shipping company in the world is
depended on USA's economical condition. ]
Revelation 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles
and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
[ Thank God for getting rid of USA - THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS.]
Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great
millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall
that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at
all.
[USA will be destroyed and sunk into the seas. Some scientists
predicted that parts of America will sink into the oceans. Will the
big stone ( nuclear weapons again or asteroid ?) thrown by angel
causes some gigantic tidal waves and flood coastal parts of USA ?
Scientists predicted something like that likely to happen in the near
future.]
Revelation 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of
pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no
craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee;
and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
[All the rockers and rappers will shut up. The machineries
(millstones) in
the factories will not run anymore.]
Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all
in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be
heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of
the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
[ Many American business leaders are considered as "great men",
especially by Americans with so-called "American Dream". Capitalism
and democracy are sorceries. Many "great" American business leaders
(e.g. Rockefeller and Carnegie ) promoted these two things. Democracy
is Greek paganism, it was invented at about 5th century B.C. Selfish
individualist capitalism was despised by Christians. Don't you
remember that the love of money is root of all evil ?]
Tom Goodman
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled,
and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye,
and believe the gospel.
Tom Goodman
>
>I don't think you can say with certainty that it was China. The Bible
>only mentioned the army from the East <- east of Israel, which could be
>anyone from Jordan to China. Where did you get India and Western
>powers wipping out China anyway.
True. Bible says "kings of the east" when it mentions Euphrates river
will be dried up and the "kings of the east" will go across this
river. Looking at the map, China qualifies as the king of the east,
because it's the biggest "king" in the east of Euphrates. Then in the
same Book of Revelation, it mentions the number of army is 200
thousand thousand, which is 200 millions. Only China "king of the
east" can supply 200 million armed men from one nation at this time.
There may be other "kings of the east" such as North Korea, Russia,
and even India and Pakistan. These "kings of the east" are militarily
equipped to fight a major war in the west of Euphrates.
Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the
great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the
way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
>
>
>
>> You know Americans don't care (some do, but many don't) and Chinese
>> themselves are too dumb to know the truth. Overseas Chinese are too
>> greedy and self-seeking, they will ignore warning signs and perhaps
>assist
>> in China's downfall...leading to 1/5th of this world's population
>dying.
Actually, according to clues in Bible prophecy in the Book of
Revelation, Chinese PLA will have no problem wiping out UN, USA, NATO,
and other nations' troops in the major war that will take place
somewhere in Middle East.
Revelation 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two
hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on
them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and
the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their
mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and
by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their
tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do
hurt.
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet
repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship
devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of
wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Looking at these Bible verses, they indicate 1/3 of their opponents
will be killed. The clues to killer weapons are indicated: missiles or
rockets having killing power located in the warheads, power in the
tails that propel them. Missiles and rockets do look like straighten
serpents.
The 200 million army will not be riding horses, these "horses" are
probably some sort of military vehicles with cannons or some sort of
guns. Chinese tanks do look like lions from a distance.
About the breastplates, in the ancient times, soldiers are known to
wear a sheet of metal to protect their hearts from arrows and spears;
these metal sheets were called breastplates. Obviously, modern
soldiers don't need to wear such breastplates. So what is Bible
talking about these breastplates ? I will let you use your brain and
see if you can figure out the answer. It's very simple really, hint:
the colors.
Tom Goodman
wrote:
>
>You know America could well produce the Anti-Christ.... America could be
>the anti-Christ - only God knows....
If we are in the end time zone, the "antichrist" is already here. He
is very likely to be an American, probably the president because only
he has the power to force the world to adapt a commercial system that
everyone must have some sort of marking (mark of the beast) in order
to buy or sell. Only a powerful American leader is able to do what the
Bible says this man will do. See all those major international credit
cards are American companies, many people already find that they can't
"leave home without them".
>
>666???? - 6 is the number for human in Biblcal term, and America is the
>true representation of democracy, freedom of speech and human rights -
>your 666... :P
You may be hitting the target. Democracy is Greek paganism. Freedom of
speech is men's idea of "freedom"; God does not allow men's own idea
of freedom and human rights. Men's freedom of speech and human rights
allow attacks on God and worship other gods. We all remember the
famous Ten Commandments, one is "thy shall not worship other gods",
this is a clear violation of what men called "freedom of speech" and
"human rights".
Notice who is pushing these 6's, it's USA !
Here is my verse-by-verse commentary and analysis of the first beast
and second beast. I don't throw in one unrelated verse from one book
and half a verse from another book to confuse you. They are listed
verse-by-verse, line-by-line, for you to read and judge for yourself
how accurate the Bible scriptures compare with what's happening now.
666 is the number of the second beast that in fact is a man - a male
leader who is the representative of the first beast. Both first beast
and second beast are controlled by satan the devil.
These are explained here. Go to Rev. 13:17 if you can't wait to read
it.
[My analysis in brackets.]
Rev.13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and I saw out of the
sea a beast coming up, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon its
horns ten diadems, and upon its heads a name of evil speaking,
[ "The beast comes up from the sea" represents a powerful nation
surfaces in the world. USA is now the world's most powerful nation. It
came up very suddenly, almost out of nowhere, and has a very short
history. ]
[ With all those horns, the beast killed a few living things on its
way coming up from the sea. USA is built on stolen lands. White
European invaders killed tens of millions of native Indian people with
their pointy weapons - guns. The horns represent something more
powerful than guns. ]
[Americans are some of the most evil speakers of all time. They
twisted the Words of God to fit them into their satanic
pseudo-christianity. False prophets and teachers such as Robert
Schuller, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Jim Baker, and
whoever are those clowns on TV. Notice that they love to call
themselves "reverend". They are committing blasphemy ! "Reverend" is
God's holy title ! > Psalms 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people:
he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his
name. <]
[ American money, on them printed "In G_d We Trust". Blasphemy ! How
dare they put God's name on filthy dollar bills !]
13:2 and the beast that I saw was like to a leopard, and its
feet as of a bear, and its mouth as the mouth of a lion, and the
dragon did give to it his power, and his throne, and great authority.
[ Leopard has many spots all over its body. The spots represent the
many states in USA. Notice the Bible says "like to a leopard", it
doesn't say it's a leopard. South America is geographically located
below USA. Look at the map, it looks like a bear's foot pointing
towards lower left; look at the claw ! Notice Bible clearly says "its
feet as of a bear," it doesn't say it's a whole bear as described in
book of Daniel. So, those so-called Bible scholars or experts, please
smarten up. The Gulf of Mexico looks like a lion's roaring mouth with
canine teeth. Notice Bible clearly says "its mouth as the mouth of a
lion," it doesn't say it's a lion. Satan(dragon) gives power and
authority to USA so that it becomes a powerful beastly nation. ]
13:3 And I saw one of its heads as slain to death, and its
deadly stroke was healed, and all the earth did wonder after the
beast,
[ Yes, the whole world is amazed at USA, such a young nation but so
powerful. The once powerful "Holy" Roman Empire and Greek democracy
empire were dead, now they are revived as one. Its new name is the
American democracy empire. It's American DemonCrazy Empire.]
13:4 and they did bow before the dragon who did give authority
to the beast, and they did bow before the beast, saying, `Who
[is] like to the beast? who is able to war with it?'
[ The US military is the most advanced. No other nation on earth dares
to make war with it. Notice, "who is like to the beast?", it means
this nation is very powerful, no other can compare to it. Americans
are very proud of their nation and they are always bragging about how
USA is the greatest nation and no other is better or able to war with
it. Americans bow(worship) to the dragon(satan) in the forms of rock
music, drugs, satanic cults, new age cults, false Christian doctrines,
Hollywood, etc. Many Americans admit they believe and worship
devils(satan).]
13:5 And there was given to it a mouth speaking great things,
and evil-speakings, and there was given to it authority to
make war forty-two months,
[ American presidents and leaders are big liars. They are the ones
have started wars all over the world. ]
13:6 and it did open its mouth for evil-speaking toward God, to
speak evil of His name, and of His tabernacle, and of those who
in the heaven tabernacle,
[ Many Americans now say that Christian God isn't a good loving God
because he hates homosexuals. Now, even American media and TV shows
speak evil of Christian God. Clinton, on one hand claims to be
Christian, on his other hand, he agrees with abortion and homosexuals.
]
13:7 and there was given to it to make war with the saints, and
to overcome them, and there was given to it authority over
every tribe, and tongue, and nation.
[ USA is the only nation forces control over all other nations,
through its stronghold on United Nations and NATO. Whatever the US
president or his gang of thugs says, UN and NATO have to follow their
orders. In other words, USA is the authority over every tribe, tongue
and nation ! (also mentioned in Daniel's prophecy)]
13:8 And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose
names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb
slain from the foundation of the world;
13:9 if any one hath an ear -- let him hear:
13:10 if any one a captivity doth gather, into captivity he doth
go away; if any one by sword doth kill, it behoveth him by
sword to be killed; here is the endurance and the faith of the
saints.
-------------- second beast ------------
13:11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the land, and it
had two horns, like a lamb, and it was speaking as a dragon,
[ This second beast has 2 horns, looks like a lamb, but it speaks like
satan(dragon). It means that this beast pretends being righteous, but
it really isn't. Sounds just like the American president and the
American govt. Notice this beast comes up from the land, not the sea
like the first beast.]
13:12 and all the authority of the first beast doth it do before
it, and it taketh the land and those dwelling in it that they
shall bow before the first beast, whose deadly stroke was
healed,
[ The once wounded "Holy" Roman Empire and Greek Democracy Empire are
now revived, they're now called "Holy" American Democracy Empire. The
second beast forces the whole world worship the first beast - a
revival of the once dead "Holy" Roman empire and Greek Democracy
Empire. ] [ The US military is the counterpart of the Roman Catholic
crusaders who conquered other nations and slaughtered anyone who
didn't accept the "Holy" Roman Empire. Notice how USA claims to be
a "godly" nation and world's strongest power. Hmm, "Holy" Roman Empire
is indeed revived now. ]
13:13 and it doth great signs, that fire also it may make to
come down from the heaven to the earth before men,
[ Tomahawk missiles ? Laser guided missiles ?]
13:14 and it leadeth astray those dwelling on the land, because
of the signs that were given it to do before the beast, saying
to those dwelling upon the land to make an image to the beast
that hath the stroke of the sword and did live,
13:15 and there was given to it to give a spirit to the image of
the beast, that also the image of the beast may speak, and
[that] it may cause as many as shall not bow before the image
of the beast, that they may be killed.
[ We all know the Statue of Liberty is a spiritual (freedom and
democracy) symbol of USA. The statue is a dead structure, but it comes
alive with the so-called spirit of democracy (Greek paganism) and
so-called "freedom". This means that the Statue of Liberty is
represents the image of the beast. USA is that beast and democracy
(Greek paganism) and so-called "freedom" are that image. Americans
work extremely hard at pushing democracy(Greek paganism) on all other
people. They declare wars on countries oppose to democracy, very much
like the way "Holy" Roman empire forced catholicism onto other people.
Those who refused must be killed.]
13:16 And it taketh all, the small, and the great, and the rich,
and the poor, and the freemen, and the servants, that it may
give to them a mark upon their right hand or upon their
foreheads,
[ This may be an actual gadget that will be placed on the forehead or
right hand. People may have two choices of where they want the gadget
placed. The reason for placing on the forehead is obvious: some people
don't have right hand! It may also be that the gadget is placed on
both places, just in case one loses the right hand. Why place on the
right hand? It is probably because as people pass through a gate with
detector, the gadget in/on their right hands are automatically
detected. Why place on the forehead ? It is probably because it is
inconvenient to chop off someone's head just to take the gadget away;
it's easier to chop off someone's hand. And it's easier for satellites
to track the gadget in the forehead.]
13:17 and that no one may be able to buy, or to sell, except he
who is having the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number
of his name.
[This is a strong clue that indicates the second beast (representative
of the first beast) is a powerful person who can change the order of
this whole world. There is only one such person, this person is the
president of USA. The mark is the name or number of a man(his). So,
this is the mark of the second beast, not of the first beast which is
called 'it'. The first beast is USA, the second beast is a male leader
of USA. This male leader will cause everyone to have the commercial
gadget placed on forehead or right hand, or both places. First there
were credit cards, then smart cards, now this gadget; all from USA. ]
13:18 Here is the wisdom! He who is having the understanding,
let him count the number of the beast, for the number of a man
it is, and its number [is] 666.
[You will soon find out about this new American gimmick. This prophecy
will soon be fulfilled. For your information: most UP (Universal
Product Code) or normally called product bar-codes contain the code
number "666"; with a "6" at the begining,in the middle, and at the end
of the code. The "6" is two strips of thin line; you can see it on
most product packages.]
===== God destroys the end time Babylon==========
Rev. 14:8 And another messenger did follow, saying, `Fall, fall, did
Babylon, the great city, because of the wine of the wrath of her
whoredom she hath given to all nations to drink.'
[ The old ancient Babylon, was the most powerful and advanced nation
of its time. This prophecy points to a nation in the end time that
resembles the ancient Babylon, it is not talking about the old ancient
Babylon. This new Babylon is USA.]
14:9 And a third messenger did follow them, saying in a great voice,
`If any one the beast doth bow before, and his image, and doth receive
a mark upon his forehead, or upon his hand,
14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath
been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be
tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before
the Lamb,
[ Those who admire, supports USA and its democracy(Greek paganism),
idolize Americanism and received the mark of the beast (a commercial
device that is coded with 666), will be sent to the lake of fire - in
other words, burn in hell.]
14:11 and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and
they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and
his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.
[ Democracy(Greek paganism) is the image of USA. The device will
contain some sort of code that includes 666, or a name, or some sort
of word/s related to 666.]
14:12 Here is endurance of the saints: here [are] those keeping the
commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.'
[ Believe in God and receive salvation through Jesus Christ, and you
shall be saved. Follow the ways (democracy,New Age religion, etc.) of
men and you are damned. ]
========== Beware of USA - the beast ==========
Rev. 15:2 and I saw as a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who
do gain the victory over the beast, and his image, and his mark, [and]
the number of his name, standing by the sea of the glass, having harps
of God,
[Those who REFUSE to follow the ways of men (democracy, New Age
religions, fake christianity, etc.) will be saved.]
16:2 and the first did go away, and did pour out his vial upon the
land, and there came a sore -- bad and grievous -- to men, those
having the mark of the beast, and those bowing to his image.
[ Wrath on USA - also called the beast, the mother of harlots, the
whore, the Mystery Babylon, and Babylon the great city. ]
Tom Goodman
>
>Anyway, as I have said above, it is not right to presume anything that
>are not clearly stated in the Bible. Revelation never mentioned any
>country in specific.
But it does give strong clues to which country, that's the reason
Bible calls it Mystery Babylon. It would not be a mystery if Bible
told you right away. The purpose is to test your SQ (Spiritual
Quotients). Only those who were chosen would able to understand and
believe and be saved.
>> Do Chinese in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or Singapore care? They won't
>believe
>> Bible prophesy until it happens, but by then it's too late, Tom!
>>
>> Asians just don't believe the Bible, so why push it!
Actually, many Asians do believe in Christianity, but almost all of
them fall into the lies of fake-christianty mostly produced by
fake-christian USA - the mother of harlots.
Catholic, pentecostal, baptist, methodist, presbyterian, jehovah
witness, mormon, blah, blah, blah, they all are fake-christianty. Here
is how to identify a fake christianity: it has a cross made of any
material (remember "thy shall not make any image" ? Exodus 20:4); it
has a logo such as a cross, a book, a dove or a fish; the preacher
wears some kind of costume, uniform, business suit, tie, priesthood
collar, or some kind of religious ornament such as a cross pendant,
cross pin or rosary; it spends money on fancy "church" building,
property and luxury items; it follows the ways of men such as
democracy; it tolerates religions; it condemns Christian communism; it
doesn't preach the gospel of kingdom of God or second coming of Jesus;
it publishes materials on the words of God and sell them for money;
its members live luxuriously and give little concern about poor
people.
>
>Says who???? This is not a fair comment. You just do not have a clue.
>Look around the Asian countries like Singapore, South Korea and even
>Hong Kong and Taiwan. There are many faithful Christian. Look at the
>Chinese (mainland China) Christians, they face more prosecution than an
>average Joe Bloggs like you or me.
One claims as Christian and arrested by the police doesn't mean one is
a true Christian. Bible clearly tells true Christians not to despise
their govt, do not speak evil of their govt. After all, true
Christians' way of life is communism.
Titus 3:1 Remind them to be subject to principalities and authorities,
to obey rule, unto every good work to be ready,
Peter II 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust
of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, self
willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things
common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men,
as every man had need.
>
>Once again, true faithful Christian should focus more on how to spread
>the words to the lost souls given that we can see the end days rather
>than spreading the unproven or bias doomsday prophercies....
You need to do some serious Bible reading before saying things like
that. Bible prophecy is very important because it proves that the
Bible is true to its words. Old Testament is full of prophecies, and
they were full-filled. New Testament is about the return of Jesus
during Armageddon, which is coming near. Are you going to argue with
the Bible:
Revelation 1:3 ¶Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the
words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written
therein: for the time is at hand.
Revelation 22:6 ¶And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and
true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew
unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of
the prophecy of this book.
Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the
prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Al
Taiwan market through "individual agents". It would be a clever
way to extort money from Taiwan since PRC doesn't collect taxes
from them.
"Francis Y.F.Poon" wrote:
> Thomas Lau wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 14 Jul 1999 kin...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > declaration. I am confident that China dares not to make
> > > any move and more confident that Taiwan will be able to defeat
> > > China if China is stupid enough to make any.
> >
> > On top of that, do you think that the international community would let
> > China invade and occupy Taiwan?
> -----------------------
> The US would be the first to stand in the way of China's invading
> Taiwan. It is unlikely that China would send troops across the Strait
> as any failed move from this measure would mean putting the leadership
> in Peking in danger. However, PRC could use 'harassment' methods to
> disrupt Taiwan but in so doing would invite retaliation from the US in
> terms of boycotts, etc. The US business community would suffer from
> such a move but I believe the US is well prepared for this. Thus the
> players involved in the situation are locked in a impasse. And the
> stock market on both side, and in HK would continue to go higher until
> the Dow takes a recess.
>
> FP
--
x-no-archive: yes
Uncle Sam
against China.China nukes Taiwan well China gets nuked.Oh and I would
hate to see 1.2 billion chinks slatered like pigs.China has nothing no
air force or navy.
Image Man
jimw...@transend.com.tw (Jim Walsh) wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:04:53 -0400, "Image Man"
> <imag...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>In article <3797ccec...@news.transend.com.tw> ,
>>jimw...@transend.com.tw (Jim Walsh) wrote:
>>Where? China did not give away anything after Zheng Pao Dao conflict
>>with Soviet Union.
>
> Well, it did so then, right?
The so called "Zheng Bao Dao" (or treasure island) incident, as known to
the Chinese people, was more or less a low intensity military conflict
between border patrol troops from both countries. Shoots were fired, but
the whole thing was ended really quickly. There was no change in
boundaries.
> And the PRC also gave away part to
> Mongolia, right?
Not so. Mongolia's early history is that of the Mongols. It was under
Chinese suzerainty from 1691 until the collapse of the Ch'ing dynasty in
1911, when a group of Mongol princes proclaimed an autonomous republic
under Jebtsun Damba Khutukhtu (the Living Buddha of Urga). The new state
was reoccupied by the Chinese in 1919, taken by the White Russians in
1921, and occupied the same year by Mongolian Communists and the Red
Army. Mongolia was proclaimed an independent state, and remained a
monarchy until 1924, when the Soviet-dominated Mongolian People's
Republic was established - the outer Mongolia.
Note it was year 1924, well before PRC days.
Francesca
moremann <more...@magix.com.sg> wrote in article
<7mngct$54r$1...@coco.singnet.com.sg>...
> I am willing to bet my last shirt that Taiwan will be clobbered and that
Lee
> fella will be selling McDonald hamburger in LA!
Not yet. The Lee will go there only when their stock market collapsed.
forces@heaven_help_us.com No mam
US is getting burnt out from various missions in recent months. Not only
they have to monitor and supervise Saddam everyday, they also in flash
point areas in Korean peninsula and the pacific. They also have to monitor
the Indian and Pakis. They are tired of all these errands and responses.
They need that summer holiday in the medditerain to rejuvenate their minds
and souls. When Taiwan's big brother is having a snooze, China could
instigate an attack on Taiwan. China could make this Sun Tze strategy as a
way to sneak smoke on Taiwan. A hit and run smoke is enough to shake
Taiwan. Fortunately Taiwan has deep pocket to restore the smokecreen. China
can do that much but make money from them. When the stock price in Taiwan
dropped, China's will use third parties to buy up their stocks. When the
shake is over, China will hold most of Taiwan's stocks and become boss.
This economic strategy is the only front that China could ruin Taiwan into
obediance.
Dee <xiec...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in article
<7mouru$jv5$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
> Thomas you idiot! You've got it all wrong. It is not a question of
whether
> China "dares" to make a move, it is whether China wants to make the
> move!!!!! You say that Taiwan will be able to defeat China? With what?
> Taiwan has nothing! Oh, I forgot! They have the big fat ugly USA as their
> back-up. Well, news flash!! That's because Taiwan is the USA's dog and I
> suppose if my dog was attacked I would probably help him a little, but
not
> to the extent of sacrificing anything.
>
kin...@my-deja.com
Better than some PRC leaders and princelins who already
deposit into the Banks in the west money they stolen
from the Chinese people.
Sally Pniewski
Sally Pniewski
Goodman) wrote:
What's left, Buddhism?
>therein: for the time is at hand.
>
>Revelation 22:6 ¶And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and
>true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew
>unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
>7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of
>the prophecy of this book.
>
>Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the
>prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
>
>
Jim Walsh
>Better than some PRC leaders and princelins who already deposit into the Banks in the west money
And ask where the CCP leaders send their children to be educated.
And ask how many of DXP's descendants and relatives are US citizens.
Love, Jim
"These young men and women are only a small number of the
victims of June 4 that I know of. Relatives of some victims, fearful
of official pressure, are unwilling to reveal publicly the names
and circumstances of the deaths of their loved ones, ....The
government has adopted a policy of forbidding discussion and
making people forget June 4." Ding Zilin, The China Reader,
Pages 210-211.
patr...@my-deja.com
kin...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <7mouru$jv5$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>,
> "Dee" <xie...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> > Thomas you idiot! You've got it all wrong. It is not
> > a question of whether China "dares" to make a move,
> > it is whether China wants to make the
> > move!!!!! You say that Taiwan will be able to defeat
> > China? With what? Taiwan has nothing! Oh, I forgot!
> > They have the big fat ugly USA as their
> > back-up. Well, news flash!! That's because Taiwan
> > is the USA's dog and I
> > suppose if my dog was attacked I would probably help him a little,
> but not
> > to the extent of sacrificing anything.
> >
> family.
> >
>
> Taiwan has 500 thousands agile and brave soldiers, one of which
> at least can match 10 half-illiterate PLA men. It took 300,000
> troops to even impose a martial law against unarmed Beijing.
> It is out of the question that China will have enough manpower
> to subdue Taiwan, let alone mentioning nonpersonnel resources.
> The Chinese naval ships are easy to detect and destroy. Once the
> large sgips are gone, China really can not do anything. The
> Taiwan battle will be nothing but a larger version of Kinmen
> Battle fought in 1950 when three PLA regiment were completely
> annilated after they landed on the island and then found they
> were stranded.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
How do you know China's naval power is weak ? Their cruise missiles can
destroy any American aircraft carriers. And their submarines can
Majestic
>How do you know China's naval power is weak ?
Do you own assessment:
PLAN has a few hundred (less than 300)
smaller surface combatants, lots of
destroyers and frigates, with the proud
ships being a few guided missile cruisers.
All are more than 15 years behind the times,
save more maybe the lastest frigate that just
launced.
PLAN has about 60 assorted submarines, the
vast majority of which are hopelessly outdated.
They consist of promarily small, coastal diesel
attack subs. There are a few HAN class SSN's and
ONE, count em, ONE Xia class SSBN.
PLAN also has a few WWII-era landing assault ships.
No heavy cruisers, no carriers of any kind,
no experienced naval avaition, no battleships,
no experienced marine/amphibious corps.
and meager at best logistics.
>Their cruise missiles can
>destroy any American aircraft carriers.
If:
1. The carrier was heading in a straight line with it's
radars turned off and is completely unescorted
2. The crew is 100% incompetant.
The whole point of the AEGIS system is to defeat
cruise missile attacks on carrier groups.
>And their submarines can
Can what? get systematically wiped out by better
trained and equipped Taiwanese submariners augmented
by vastly superior US submarine assets?
--
Phipps
>
> Thomas you idiot! You've got it all wrong. It is not a question of whether
> China "dares" to make a move, it is whether China wants to make the
> move!!!!! You say that Taiwan will be able to defeat China? With what?
> Taiwan has nothing!
Don't take her insult too personally, Tony. Obviously this is a person
who hasn't spent much time pondering the logistical requirements of a
successful opposed seaborne invasion by PRC, and is not likely to have
considered the consequences of such an invasion.
kin...@my-deja.com
patr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How do you know China's naval power is weak ? Their
> cruise missiles can destroy any American aircraft carriers.
> And their submarines can
Can what? The Chinese missiles and subs are just like your
texts, which has no continued parts.
By the way, odds of Taiwanese missiles against Chinese ships
are much greater than odds of Chinese missiles against American
ones. If China can defeat American fleet with anti-ship missiles,
so can Taiwan defeat Chinese fleet. If Taiwan cannot defeat the
Chinese fleets with anti-ship missiles, neither can China defeat
USA. Either way, China will not win. If PLAN disptached 20
destroyers to block Taiwan, its top commanders will not be even sure
how many can return safely next day. Liberate Taiwan? Forget
about it. Don't speak big words without your face becoming red.
kin...@my-deja.com
Hello...@flying.electric.sex.macines.com (Majestic) wrote:
>
> >Their cruise missiles can
> >destroy any American aircraft carriers.
>
> 1. The carrier was heading in a straight line with it's
> radars turned off and is completely unescorted
> 2. The crew is 100% incompetant.
>
> The whole point of the AEGIS system is to defeat
> cruise missile attacks on carrier groups.
Infact, most Chinese anti-ship missiles do not have range
more than 200 miles. Americans tomhawk can fly up to
1000 miles. The only thing the USA fleet need to do is stay
900 miles off the Chinese coast and keep launching tomhawks.
Most of important targets with 100 miles off teh coast line,
power statsion, bridges, dams, ammo depo, airports, ship building
yards, will be knocked one after another until China yields
Phipps
>
> In article <7n4o65$uo7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> patr...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > cruise missiles can destroy any American aircraft carriers.
>
> Can what? The Chinese missiles and subs are just like your
> texts, which has no continued parts.
>
> By the way, odds of Taiwanese missiles against Chinese ships
> are much greater than odds of Chinese missiles against American
> ones. If China can defeat American fleet with anti-ship missiles,
> so can Taiwan defeat Chinese fleet. If Taiwan cannot defeat the
> Chinese fleets with anti-ship missiles, neither can China defeat
> USA. Either way, China will not win. If PLAN disptached 20
> destroyers to block Taiwan, its top commanders will not be even sure
> how many can return safely next day.
No military commander worth his salt would discount what Clausewitz
called "the fog of war".
Military doctrines of armed forces that can not raationally expect to
achieve victory in the classical sense of the term, often fall back on
the deterrence of unacceptable casualties. This is central to the
military doctrine of states such as Singapore ("the poison shrimp"),
Sweden, Switzerland...
*
Even if PRC could muster the resources to carry out a victorious
campaign aganist the "renegade province" [sic] of Taiwan, PRC then would
have to deal with a defeated population, and the shattered industry and
infrastructure on which that population depended.
Perhaps PRC will have devised an effective strategy for handling such a
situation without resorting to severe repression, or massive financial
transfusions to rebuild Taiwan, or both.
Liberate Taiwan? Forget
> about it. Don't speak big words without your face becoming red.
>
Jim Walsh
>How do you know China's naval power is weak ?
Duh, by reading.
Craig Sung
>Tom, I think you are referring to China, as prophesied by the Bible
>scriptures. It is China that will be nuked and wiped out in the last days
>of this evil wicked system of things...by both India and Western powers.
Bible prophesy is exactly like Nostradamus prophesy. Both are full of shit,
and both are believed by weak-minded people who have little ability to
think for themselves.
The King of Terror is supposed to visit the Earth this month, according to
Nostradamus, and cause a worldwide catastrophe. It ain't gonna happen.
>Do Chinese in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or Singapore care? They won't believe
>Bible prophesy until it happens, but by then it's too late, Tom!
>Asians just don't believe the Bible, so why push it!
Why should Asians believe in the Bible? Aside from hallucingenic visions
from mushroom ingestion and ravings from the mentally unstable passed off
as prophesies, the Bible is a collection of tall tales told by an ignorant,
superstitious, blood-thirsty, barbaric group of savages. It is full of
accounts of bloody carnage, inhuman torture, blatant incest, rape, sexual
intercourse and countless atrocities comitted by protagonists and
antagonists alike. To call this a holy book is, thus far, the biggest joke
in human history. If there is a God, He is rolling around laughing his ass
off that so many stupid humans revere it without investigating what it
contains.
kin...@my-deja.com
mrph...@slip.net wrote:
> Perhaps PRC will have devised an effective strategy
> for handling such a situation without resorting to severe
> repression, or massive financial transfusions to rebuild
> Taiwan, or both.
And the third one: rebuilding the mainland itself.
Lawrence
the signs of war is supposed to come from space, it is supposed to hit
somewhere in the north pole where somesort of biological weapon was released
into the atmosphere resulting in huge death tolls on all northern hemisphere
nations including russia, china, japan, usa and europe. this plague weakens
the superpower severely. somehow i believe that the plague is genetic
engineered so that it could be extremely sensistive to temperature and thus
why it doesnt kill all the way towards the equator like tropical and desert
area which is hotter in winter.
WWIII would begin in middle east by a man who wear a blue headwear vowing
for vengence in present day iraq, the arabs will sweep through europe
including UK.
China and USA would first become enemy before WWIII and then strong allies
during WW3 as both realise that alone, they will both fall infront of the
arab onslaught.
with the demise of europe, the arabs would launch a full naval assault
across the atlantic, only to be destroyed by the US navy marking a turning
point in WW3.
china would launch a full attack across middle east but wont be able to make
much impact as India join in against china. it would be sometime before
china kicked india's ass and crush the final indian resistance at the river
ganja.
then the US, Russia and china would launch a 3 front war against the arabs
while the US president who originally hesitated now fully authorised the use
of NUKES.
the chinese would push west while USA would do another normandy and push
eastward across the plains of europe while russia rush south.
the war will end in tehran, the capital of iran with the arabs surrendering
unconditionally.
Al
most twisted "interpretation" I've ever seen) why are you amongst
the evil Americans. Why haven't you gone back to the glorious land of
God in the PRC. Or are you the one who will save this city of
Sodom? :>
Tom Goodman wrote:
--
x-no-archive: yes
Tom Goodman
wrote:
>according to one of the version explanation of nostradamus prediction.
>
Which one of Nostradamus' many predictions is that ? Why don't you
have any quatrain quoted ? Something to hide your erroneous
translation ?
Is this the one ?
Century 10, Quatrain 72
"L'an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois,
Du ciel viendra vn grand Roy deffraieur:
Resusciter le grand Roy d'Angolmois,
Auant apres Mars regner par bon-heur."
Translations:
John Hogue (Nostradamus and the Millennium):
"In the year 1999 and seven months
The Great King of Terror will come from the Sky
He will ressurect Ghengis Khan
Before and after war rules happily"
Erika Cheetham (The Final Prophecies of Nostradamus):
"In the year 1999, and seven months
from the sky will come the great King of Terror.
He will bring to life the great king of the Mongols.
Before and after war reigns happily"
Leoni (source: http://www.herne.nl/starcon5/cenx.htm)
"The year 1999, seventh month,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror:
To bring back to life the great King of the Mongols,
Before and after Mars to reign by good luck."
Stefan Palus (Nostradamus 2000):
"The year 1999, the seventh month,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror:
Resuscitating the great King of the Mongols,
Before and after Mars to reign happily."
Peter Lemesurier (A.P.N. Alternate FAQ)
"When 1999 is seven months o'er
Shall Heaven's great Ruler, anxious to appease,
Stir up the Mongol-Lombard king once more
And war reign haply where it once did cease."
>the signs of war is supposed to come from space,
The "king of terror from sky" may be some sort of nuclear or
biological weapons.
> it is supposed to hit
>somewhere in the north pole
There is no indication of that in the prophecy. Can you provide at
least a little reference ? Empty words are rubbish; you can make up
anything you want.
>where somesort of biological weapon was released
>into the atmosphere resulting in huge death tolls on all northern hemisphere
>nations including russia, china, japan, usa and europe. this plague weakens
>the superpower severely.
Where is the indication of these in Nost's prophecy ? Not there.
>somehow i believe that the plague is genetic
>engineered so that it could be extremely sensistive to temperature and thus
>why it doesnt kill all the way towards the equator like tropical and desert
>area which is hotter in winter.
Where is the indication of these in Nost's prophecy ? Not there.
>
>WWIII would begin in middle east by a man who wear a blue headwear vowing
>for vengence in present day iraq, the arabs will sweep through europe
>including UK.
Where did you get that idea ? You can also say he is Santa Claus or
Ronald McDonald the Clown.
>
>China and USA would first become enemy before WWIII and then strong allies
>during WW3 as both realise that alone, they will both fall infront of the
>arab onslaught.
Bible says that kings of the earth will unit and fight Jesus and his
army in Armageddon, but no where does Bible say that China and USA
will be slaughtered by Arabs.
Revelation 19:11 ¶And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;
and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in
righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many
crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is
called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white
horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should
smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he
treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING
OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud
voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come
and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and
the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit
on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and
great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies,
gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and
against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that
wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had
received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.
These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the
horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were
filled with their flesh.
>
>with the demise of europe, the arabs would launch a full naval assault
>across the atlantic, only to be destroyed by the US navy marking a turning
>point in WW3.
Arabs don't have much naval power. It will be very likely the Arabs
launch terrorist acts using nuclear weapons which help full fill Bible
prophecy of total destruction of USA.
>
>china would launch a full attack across middle east but wont be able to make
>much impact as India join in against china. it would be sometime before
>china kicked india's ass and crush the final indian resistance at the river
>ganja.
Where did you get that indication from Nost's prophecy ? Not there.
Bible does say that Chinese PLA will destroy many, may be as many as
1/3 of world's population or their enemies.
Revelation 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two
hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on
them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and
the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their
mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and
by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their
tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do
hurt.
>
>then the US, Russia and china would launch a 3 front war against the arabs
>while the US president who originally hesitated now fully authorised the use
>of NUKES.
Maybe USA will blow up itself before it has a chance to use its 8,000
nuclear warheads on others. Maybe it will be a chain reaction of
detonations caused Arab terrorists' nuclear bombs.
>
>the chinese would push west while USA would do another normandy and push
>eastward across the plains of europe while russia rush south.
>
>the war will end in tehran, the capital of iran with the arabs surrendering
>unconditionally.
>
The final world war "Armageddon" will end when USA the beast, NATO,
and UN troops are wiped out by Jesus the son of God.
Tom Goodman
AL, I'm here to kick your stupid ass, it's my job.
KEhlar
says...
> That Lee fella is an elected president of a fluorishing democracy. The ghouls
> of PRC who threaten him are running China *only* because they control the
> army. Hoping that China conquers Taiwan, subjecting the free people of
> Taiwan to the kind of brutal oppression the Mainlanders have to deal with,
> is sick IMO. What's also scary is that since CCP hasn't been able to
> brainwash Taiwanese as they have their own citizens, and thus Taiwanese
> (the ones I know, anyway) understand how awful CCP is, China would probably
> have to murder millions of Taiwanese to get them in line. Just speculation,
> I know, but regardless of whether China *could* conquer Taiwan, the fact is
> that if they do, it will be one of the great tragedies in Chinese and world
> history, the crushing of the only true democracy ever to exist in China.
>
> Bill
AMEN!
sc
Craig Sung <csap...@dixie-net.com> wrote in message
news:7n7lfv$psl$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> lc...@lava.net (NoSpamlchow) wrote:
>
Sally Pniewski
intellect Tommy boy.
Dira
Sally Pniewski <spni...@usa.net> wrote in article
<3794a88e...@news.usit.net>...
> If China uses neutron bombs on Taiwan, she'll have to answer to almost
> every country on the planet Earth. That's something not even the US
> would want to deal with.
China do not need neutron bomb at all. They are going after LTH and Lien.
They are not interested to kill the Chinese people in Taiwan. They never
to. She does need to answer to the world in order to recover Taiwan from
the renegade group. Us can do nothing to prevent , unless they want to
enter war with China. US do not want the risk prolonged war with China that
affect US economically.
kin...@my-deja.com
"Dira" <Diraid@deja news.com> wrote:
>
> China do not need neutron bomb at all. They are going
> after LTH and Lien. They are not interested to kill
> the Chinese people in Taiwan. They never
> to. She does need to answer to the world in order to recover
> Taiwan from the renegade group. Us can do nothing to prevent ,
> unless they want to enter war with China. US do not want the risk
> prolonged war with China that affect US economically.
Not eally. China's attack on Taiwan will provide an excellent excuse
for USA to have a prolonged war with China. Such a war can only
bankrupt China so what will the USA be afraid of?
Also keep in mind that such a war will besacilly be casulty-free for
the USA. It is a well established fact that USA warplanes can not be
downed. USA warships are unsinkable. As long as USA do not engame
onthe Chinese land, casulties is absolutely not a concern for the
USA. For USA, the differences between a war movie and a reali life
is that in the movies not only USA's enemies are killed but also USA
GIs but in the reality, USA soldiers are almost immortal so far as
naval and air battles are concerned---this is not a myth but down-to-
earth reality youy can verify from Yugoslavs and Iraqies. I can safety
bet my dollars that no one can shoot down an American warplanes and
capture its pilots for the forseeable next 30 years. As far as USa
warships are concerned, the only thing I want to say is: you may be one
day can dry up the pacific ocean, but sink a USA carrier? Go to
see a movie please---it is not going to occur in this world
Sally Pniewski
>In article <01bed861$4f111720$LocalHost@xxx>,
> "Dira" <Diraid@deja news.com> wrote:
>>
>> China do not need neutron bomb at all. They are going
>> after LTH and Lien. They are not interested to kill
>> the Chinese people in Taiwan. They never
>> to. She does need to answer to the world in order to recover
>> Taiwan from the renegade group. Us can do nothing to prevent ,
>> unless they want to enter war with China. US do not want the risk
>> prolonged war with China that affect US economically.
>
>Not eally. China's attack on Taiwan will provide an excellent excuse
>for USA to have a prolonged war with China. Such a war can only
>bankrupt China so what will the USA be afraid of?
I wouldn't go so far as to say a plane can't be downed, or a ship
can't be sunk. The USA's military equipment is very good, but not
perfect. Machinery can fail and humans make mistakes.
Wayne Tang
the USA never fight with China.
kin...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7nqpte$duo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <01bed861$4f111720$LocalHost@xxx>,
> "Dira" <Diraid@deja news.com> wrote:
>>
>> China do not need neutron bomb at all. They are going
>> after LTH and Lien. They are not interested to kill
>> the Chinese people in Taiwan. They never
>> to. She does need to answer to the world in order to recover
>> Taiwan from the renegade group. Us can do nothing to prevent ,
>> unless they want to enter war with China. US do not want the risk
>> prolonged war with China that affect US economically.
>
>Not eally. China's attack on Taiwan will provide an excellent excuse
>for USA to have a prolonged war with China. Such a war can only
>bankrupt China so what will the USA be afraid of?
>
kin...@my-deja.com
spni...@hotmail.com (Sally Pniewski) wrote:
> I wouldn't go so far as to say a plane can't be downed, or a ship
> can't be sunk. The USA's military equipment is very good, but not
> perfect. Machinery can fail and humans make mistakes.
That is why the only hole America's enemies can hope, in
case of war is that some American jet fighters will
crash due to some mechanical problems. Then they
can shoot some holes on wreckages so that they
can claim they bring down some "Yankee air pirates
(Mei Guo Kong Zhong Qiang Dao)". I feel these
people are so stupid. I have a better suggestion
for them----they can destroy some of their own
planes, then pain a USAF insignia and boradcast
photos. They just want to fool their own people
anyway.
kin...@my-deja.com
"Wayne Tang" <wei...@163.net> wrote:
> The USA warship never be sinkable and airplane never be
> downed,if only if the USA never fight with China.
To fight China is easier than to conduct a wargame because
in a wargame hypothesized enemies do not surrender and do not
see asylums from USA
Yu
kin...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <01bed861$4f111720$LocalHost@xxx>,
> "Dira" <Diraid@deja news.com> wrote:
> Also keep in mind that such a war will besacilly be casulty-free for
> the USA. It is a well established fact that USA warplanes can not be
> downed. USA warships are unsinkable. As long as USA do not engame
> onthe Chinese land, casulties is absolutely not a concern for the
> USA.
馬 屁 精
台 毒 份 子 好 賤
kin...@my-deja.com
spni...@hotmail.com (Sally Pniewski) wrote:
> I wouldn't go so far as to say a plane can't be downed, or a ship
> can't be sunk.
I did not go as far as that either. I only went as far as
stating that an American warplane is almost undownable
and an American warship is unsinkable. Go to ask
Iraqi or Serb air-defense soldiers to confirm. Others
can speculate about how to defeat USA as much as they can,
but Iraqis and Serbs learned the lesson and they are
the ones and only ones who have the qualfication of
appraising American military force. As CCP
often says:"Practice is the only way to test truth"
(Of course CCP never follow their own belief).
My statement is a truth tested by Iraqi and Serbs
and Americans. It will remain true until something
else happens, which will not happen in forseeable
future.
Kenny
<kin...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7ntigm$bl1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
After killing some rats, my pet cat has the same feeling as yours
and it thinks that it can kill any tiger and even defeat the USA
military force. Aha...
Tom Goodman
>After killing some rats, my pet cat has the same feeling as yours
>and it thinks that it can kill any tiger and even defeat the USA
>military force. Aha...
First of all, we know you are lying because you don't know how your
cat thinks. Also, your cat is very unlikely to have seen a real tiger,
let alone know what is U.S. military.
Cats are known to fight and even attack dogs much bigger than their
size, and often they win. Even big, mean dogs become little chickens
when they are attacked by cats.
Mao has always treated USA as a paper Tiger. He said, "USA is just a
paper Tiger. It uses its size and image to intimidate smaller nations.
As soon as rain comes down, the paper Tiger reveals its true face; it
melts."
Mao was right. He beat USA not just once, but three times. First time
in China, second time in Korea, third time in Vietnam.
When asked by an American reporter on what he thought of possible use
of American atomic bombs on Chinese people. Mao answered, "Chinese
people are not afraid of atomic bomb. After seeing the horrible use of
atomic bomb on Japan, the whole world is now against it. It will never
be used again." Sure enough, atomic bomb has not been used since the
last use on Japan, and it probably never be used again. What about
nuclear bomb? Mao answered, "It didn't even kill all the pigs on
Bikini Island." China has never been afraid of atomic bomb nor the
nuclear bomb.
Yes, AmeriKKKa is just a paper Tiger. When rain comes, the paper Tiger
melts.
Mao also said, "We might not have enough weapons, but we won because
we had the righteous goal. We could still beat our enemies (japs) by
using stones and spears. People is the power."
About American support for Kuomingdang - the Chinese Nationalists who
tried to take over China by massacre their own fellow countrymen. Mao
replied, "The more supports America gives to Kuomingdang, the stronger
we (Chinese Communists) become, because we get our weapons from
defeated Kuomingdang troops." Near the end of the war against
Kuomingdang, Chinese Communists were mostly using American weapons to
destroy American-backed Kuomingdang troops. CCP started out with
nothing, and it has built itself into world superpower. God must be
helping them. Good guy always win.
T*o*m G*o*o*d*m*a*n
Yes, true Christians are true Communists.
Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart
and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things
which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
The real Tom Goodman post from either idirect.com or sympatico.ca.
Jon Rozarevic-Tan
news:7obl7d$i9r$1...@news.hk.linkage.net...>
After killing some rats, my pet cat has the same feeling as yours
> and it thinks that it can kill any tiger and even defeat the USA
> military force. Aha.
I kind of think that your pet cat has got the constitutional rights to think
so.
roza
--
FIND YOUR TRUE LOVE HERE:
http://www.singlesnet.com/default.asp?AID=18217&PID=176503
Sally Pniewski
fairly good considering they were ten-thousand miles from home.
On Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:36:20 GMT, Christ...@Communism.CCI (Tom
Goodman) wrote:
>On Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:35:17 -0700, "Kenny" <ke...@hkstar.com> wrote:
>
>>After killing some rats, my pet cat has the same feeling as yours
>>and it thinks that it can kill any tiger and even defeat the USA
ChristianC...@international.cci
On Sun, 08 Aug 1999 06:20:35 GMT, spni...@hotmail.com (Sally
Pniewski), wrote:
>Yeh, but China had the home court advantage. I think the US did
>fairly good considering they were ten-thousand miles from home.
White trash imperialists are extremely good at invading and killing
people in other continents. Although they had started out under the
order of whore and punk in England's palace, they had little problem
sailing to North America, Australia, and New Zealand. They had very
little problem wiping out native inhabitants of North America,
Australia and New Zealand. They also invaded many other places such as
China, India, Africa, South East Asia, and just about everywhere on
earth. They could pick on the weakening. When they tried to pick on
strong, united communists, white trash were beaten time and time
again.
T*o*m G*o*o*d*m*a*n
Christian Communism Is Godly !
Sally Pniewski
did, it would be a different story...
ChristianC...@international.cci
wrote:
>The US never had an "all out" war with the communists. If they
>did, it would be a different story...
Yes, it would be a different story; AmeriKKKa would have ended much
sooner. AmeriKKKa still has time to repent and beg for mercy. God is
giving his final warning.
Keep in mind, the Book of Revelation is a prophecy about the end time
of this world. There will be an all-out war in Middle East, some 200
thousand thousand (200,000,000) men from the east will cross the
Euphrates river and perhaps head into an area somewhere between Iraq
and Israel. So far it hasn't happened yet. Because of the current
Middle East tension and China is able to send 200 million armed men,
it is highly likely that the Book of Revelation is talking about this
era. Only USA fits the descriptions of Babylon the great city -
world's No.1 commercial center and also the world's number 1
sin-center.
USA is highly likely the Babylon city as mentioned in Book of
Revelation. America is exactly the way the Book of Revelation has
described.
[my analysis is in brackets]
Revelation 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat
of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed
their tongues for pain,
[This kingdom ( country or nation ) is controlled by the beast ( satan
) or a ruler ( beast ). Darkness means sin and evilness.]
[ The beast is either a demonic power or satan itself. "His kingdom"
is a nation that's full of evilness, e.g. rock music, drugs, new age
religions, homosexuality, pornography, pedophilia, false christian
doctrines, materialism, Hollywood, mafia, biker gangs, dope
pushers...]
Revelation 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their
pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
[Faggots dying of AIDS.]
Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the
great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the
way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
["Kings of the east" indicates China, or Russia and North Korea as
well.]
[Euphrates is a river in Middle East. The easiest way for the armies
of the east go through Euphrates is have this river dried up, likely
by shutting the dams which now exist. There was no possibility to
freely stop the river flow by human intervention during the time this
prophecy was written. Only modern technology we now have can shut off
Euphrates' water flow like a faucet.]
[This leads to World War 3, its location will be somewhere in Middle
East]
Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out
of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out
of the mouth of the false prophet.
[The dragon is satan.The beast represents a country or
organization.The false prophet will be a man with strong influence
over many people, he will be able to convince the world to believe his
lies. The American president, Bill Clinton, or whoever he may be, fits
this description of the false prophet.]
Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles,
which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to
gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
[Sounds just like Clinton, doesn't it ? There will be one worse than
Clinton, or is that him ?]
[The evil, lying spirits will work through the false prophet, the
beast (nation or organization) and the dragon(satan), the spirits will
speak through men and convince the kings of the earth(nations with
military power) to go to war in Middle East.]
[The kings of the earth shall be gathered by demonic spirits at Middle
East for a final showdown. Sounds very familiar, doesn't it ?)]
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that
watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see
his shame.
[Jesus will appear very suddenly without you knowing the time of his
reappearance. Be prepared and don't get caught without salvation.]
[Be prepared as this will happen suddenly without any warning, cover
yourself with the garment of salvation otherwise you will be caught
with your pants down (shame).]
Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in
the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
[Location is in Middle East, an area between Iraq and Israel.]
Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the
air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from
the throne, saying, It is done.
[It will be God's direct order and no one will be able to stop it.]
Revelation 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings;
and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon
the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
[Massive earthquakes or heavy shocks cause by nuclear weapons.
Normally, natural earthquakes don't come with lightnings or thunders,
so, this powerful earthquake will likely be caused by nuclear
explosions, which are full of sounds (voices and thunders) and great
flashes of light (lightnings).]
Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and
the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance
before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of
his wrath.
[The great Babylon (USA) breaks into 3 parts - west coast, east coast
and the middle.]
Revelation 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were
not found.
[Lands will sink into oceans, mountains will be flattened; only some
super earthquakes can do that. They are not here yet, they're coming
soon.]
Revelation 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven,
every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God
because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was
exceeding great.
[Natural hails, meteorites or nuclear weapons.]
Tom Goodman
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled,
and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye,
and believe the gospel.
>
oilman
Any ideas??
swl
accepted by people in ROC.
Regards,
SW
=?iso-8859-1?q?=bc=c3=b9=ab=bb=ee=b7=f0=c0=d9=a4=bd=ac=a1=a6=f2jigong=20=3c=bc=c3=b9=ab=bb=ee=b7=f0=c0=d9=a4=bd=ac=a1=a6=f2jigon
loaded with jobless Chinese from all over China to Taiwan. With
say, 10 millions or 20 millions of such people landing in Taiwan,
the proportion of 'Taiwanese' who are for immediate
reunification will increase tremendously!
oilman wrote:
> Any ideas??
Tom Billings
> Any ideas??
Simplicity!!
Make life on the Mainland so attractive that
taiwanese will _ask_ to become part of the PRC!
It's also by far the cheapest way, and the one
that allows the people of the PRC to get rich
and have freedom as well. It _does_ mean that
the dictatorship will have to go. That has been
done successfully elsewhere, so China should be
able to do it.
Regards,
Tom Billings
--
Oregon L5 Society
http://www.teleport.com/~rfrederi/L5/
haozertree
Tom Billings <it...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:itsd1-10089...@a48-02-47.pdx.du.teleport.com...
> In article <7opcej$c1e$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, oilman <ca...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
>
> > Any ideas??
>
> Simplicity!!
>
> Make life on the Mainland so attractive that
> taiwanese will _ask_ to become part of the PRC!
What a silly statement. If you know anything about how the Taiwan people
are bigots towards the Chinese Mainlanders, you know this would never
happen.
Taiwanese will not ask to be a part of the PRC. The smart ones have already
came to the PRC, opened up sweat shops, bought a home and a second wife
there. They are the ones who want the status quo.
Seriously speaking though. The last couple of decades in which the China
have been antagonized and ridiculed by the Taiwan media has made me think
that it is impossible for the young Taiwan generation to ask to be a part of
the PRC.
> It's also by far the cheapest way, and the one
> that allows the people of the PRC to get rich
> and have freedom as well. It _does_ mean that
> the dictatorship will have to go. That has been
> done successfully elsewhere, so China should be
> able to do it.
It is true that the dictatorship might have to go, but it might take a
while. From the looks of former USSR and India, I think China might be a
bit better off, at least for now.
hol...@earthlink.com
wrote:
>
> Tom Billings wrote:
>
> > In article <7opcej$c1e$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, oilman <ca...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Any ideas??
> >
> > Simplicity!!
> >
> > Make life on the Mainland so attractive that
> > taiwanese will _ask_ to become part of the PRC!
> >
> > that allows the people of the PRC to get rich
> > and have freedom as well. It _does_ mean that
> > the dictatorship will have to go. That has been
> > done successfully elsewhere, so China should be
> > able to do it.
>
> 'You' successfully persuaded the naive Russians to to follow 'your' advice' ten
> years ago.
> They have become 'pariahs' after ten years of your style of democracy!
>
> Chinese have observed the development in Russia closely. The conclusion is
> crystal clear!
I believe you have the benefit of an American education.
Tom Billings
=?iso-8859-1?Q?=BC=C3=B9=AB=BB=EE=B7=F0=C0=D9=A4=BD=AC=A1=A6=F2Jigong=20=3C=BC=C3=B9=AB=BB=EE=B7=F0=C0=D9=A4=BD=AC=A1=A6=F2JigongLuohan=40rocketmail=2Ecom=3E?=
wrote:
> Tom Billings wrote:
> > In article <7opcej$c1e$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, oilman <ca...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > Any ideas??
> > Simplicity!!
> > Make life on the Mainland so attractive that
> > taiwanese will _ask_ to become part of the PRC!
> > It's also by far the cheapest way, and the one
> > that allows the people of the PRC to get rich
> > and have freedom as well. It _does_ mean that
> > the dictatorship will have to go. That has been
> > done successfully elsewhere, so China should be
> > able to do it.
> Very funny.
> 'You' successfully persuaded the naive Russians to to follow 'your'
advice' ten
> years ago.
> They have become 'pariahs' after ten years of your style of democracy!
Russia has not allowed market freedoms even
as much as the PRC has done. Why do you
expect them to be prosperous?
Thye have become problematic while following
a government distinctly different than US
democracy, even with Clinton still in the
White House.
> Chinese have observed the development in Russia closely. The conclusion is
> crystal clear!
OH??? Then who _else_ have you been observing.
Trying to make generalizations from just one
data point is almost always a guarantor of bad
results. What about Poland, and Hungary, and
Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Taiwan, and
S. Korea, and Japan, and ......
Selecting your data will get you an arguement,
but not a good model to predict future probabilities.
Tom Billings
> >On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:20:16 GMT, oilman <ca...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >> Any ideas??
> On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:59:58 GMT, swcs...@netvigator.com (swl) wrote:
>
> >By peaceful means. By improvements within PRC so that reunion is
> >accepted by people in ROC.
> Not a chance. The anti China force will never allow that to happen. No
> matter how much PRC improves itself, there would never be enough for
> the west to lower their weapons.
What 'west'? If the people on Taiwan freely
vote to join the PRC themselves, do you
_really_ think anyone outside of Taiwan
and the PRC can stop it, or would want to?
> Anything short of total surrender of
> the PRC government will only make the west to demand more. It's either
> nothing or everything.
Total surrender? Who is demanding 'surrender'?
When did they demand it? What 'more' is being
demanded, or even possible, even from the people
_on_ Taiwan, besides making the PRC desirable
to the people on Taiwan? If you want to make
a deal that isn't coercive, then you'll see
both sides meeting the needs of the other.
=?iso-8859-1?q?=bc=c3=b9=ab=bb=ee=b7=f0=c0=d9=a4=bd=ac=a1=a6=f2jigong=20=3c=bc=c3=b9=ab=bb=ee=b7=f0=c0=d9=a4=bd=ac=a1=a6=f2jigon
> In article <7opcej$c1e$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, oilman <ca...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > Any ideas??
>
> Simplicity!!
>
> Make life on the Mainland so attractive that
> taiwanese will _ask_ to become part of the PRC!
>
> It's also by far the cheapest way, and the one
> that allows the people of the PRC to get rich
> and have freedom as well. It _does_ mean that
> the dictatorship will have to go. That has been
> done successfully elsewhere, so China should be
> able to do it.
Very funny.
'You' successfully persuaded the naive Russians to to follow 'your' advice' ten
years ago.
They have become 'pariahs' after ten years of your style of democracy!
Chinese have observed the development in Russia closely. The conclusion is
crystal clear!
Jim Walsh
>Not a chance. The anti China force will never allow that to happen. No
>matter how much PRC improves itself, there would never be enough for
>the west to lower their weapons..
If the PRC were a democratic country, there would many in Taiwan who
would support unification. If they were a majority, the "west" would
neither object nor have any way to stop it.
Love, Jim
"These young men and women are only a small number of the
victims of June 4 that I know of. Relatives of some victims, fearful
of official pressure, are unwilling to reveal publicly the names
and circumstances of the deaths of their loved ones, ....The
government has adopted a policy of forbidding discussion and
making people forget June 4." Ding Zilin, The China Reader,
Pages 210-211.
=?iso-8859-1?q?=bc=c3=b9=ab=bb=ee=b7=f0=c0=d9=a4=bd=ac=a1=a6=f2jigong=20=3c=bc=c3=b9=ab=bb=ee=b7=f0=c0=d9=a4=bd=ac=a1=a6=f2jigon
hol...@earthlink.com wrote:
> 济公活佛蕾そ︱Jigong <济公活佛蕾そ︱Jigong...@rocketmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Very funny.
> > 'You' successfully persuaded the naive Russians to to follow 'your' advice' ten
> > years ago.
> > They have become 'pariahs' after ten years of your style of democracy!
> >
> > Chinese have observed the development in Russia closely. The conclusion is
> > crystal clear!
>
> I believe you have the benefit of an American education.
Go ahead and make what ever assumption you like.'
After all that is what the haughty, arrogant Americans do most of the time! :-)
=?iso-8859-1?q?=bc=c3=b9=ab=bb=ee=b7=f0=c0=d9=a4=bd=ac=a1=a6=f2jigong=20=3c=bc=c3=b9=ab=bb=ee=b7=f0=c0=d9=a4=bd=ac=a1=a6=f2jigon
> In article
Well, how about reading the following post?
If you really look at development in various countries in the
past 200 hundred
years or so, you should realize that the western style of
democracy has
practically only served the west well. This style (with
variations, of course!)
has evolved for many years (more than 200 years in the case od
USA!) to what
they are today.
No one country has had instantaneous success with this style of
democracy. In
USA, for almost 200 years, only white males were 'wise enough' to
vote in
elections. White women were 'granted' the 'wisdom' much almost
200 years later
followed by the 'blacks' about 30 years ago.
All these countries which are successful did not become
successful (or
prosperous) as a result of western style of democracy. In the
case of USA, the
'success' was built on resource-rich land forcefully acquired
'free' from the
natives. In a way the European emigrants had actually 'robbed'
their way to
prosperity. This prosperity was further sustained for many years
by 'free
labors' --the slaves for more than one century!
In the case of European countries, ALL of them had built their
prosperity while
they were not democracy, on the wealth 'robbed' from their
resource-rich
colonies all over the world. In other words such prosperity was
acquired at the
fun point. It has nothing to do with democracy.
Similarly, the advancement and prosperity of Japan is basically
not the result
of democracy. Japan became strong and prosperous under absolute
monarchy.
In the case of Taiwan, it is even more obvious. Before KMT
escaped to the island
with hundreds of tons of gold and silver from the Chinese
national coffer,
Taiwan was poor and backward. The amount of gold and silver
brought to Taiwan by
KMT government was equivalent to about US$ 1,000 of that time!
in that sense,
prosperity of Taiwan was also built on wealth acquired from
'robbery'! Under the
two Chiangs, Taiwan continue to move towards more prosperity
under dictatorship,
NOT democracy. Of course Taiwan also benefited tremendously from
the 'cold war'
where prosperous USA was ever willing to 'share' its wealth to
counter the
Soviet Block.
South Korea also became rather prosperous under dictatorship with
much help from
its allies in the prosperous west.
Singapore is probably the only exception. A democracy which has
become
prosperous under extrem conditions. However, Singapore government
has been
considered by the west as authoritative all the while, not
democratic!
Brunei and Countries in the Middle East are in a way prosperous
but they are not
democracy and their prosperity is mainly due to the 'black gold'
(crude oil)
with which they can just sit down and collect money!
So is western style democracy is definitely a better system for
China and the Chinese people?
The answer is crystal clear if we look at the experience of
Russia (10 years of western style democracy) and the experience
of India (50 years of western style democracy).
The situation in Russia before it embraced western style
democracy was very similar to that in China.
The results of Russian's since then
:
1. Inflation at a rate of closed to 1,000%
2. Russian currency, Rouble had the last three digits chopped off
to reduce the 'load' of currency notes!
3. Per capital income became halved.
4. Life expectancy decreased sharply.
5. Living condition for most people deteriorated sharply.
6. Mafia took control of major financial institutions,
manufacturing, mining and trading, both domestic and foreign
trades.
7. etc. etc.
Does the west have a better model for China?
The answer, I am afraid, is NO!
Chinese leaders and the people have no choice but to search for
the best solutions for themselves in the uncharted territory if
they want China to be more prosperous and stronger!
Tom Billings
=?iso-8859-1?Q?=BC=C3=B9=AB=BB=EE=B7=F0=C0=D9=A4=BD=AC=A1=A6=F2Jigong=20=3C=BC=C3=B9=AB=BB=EE=B7=F0=C0=D9=A4=BD=AC=A1=A6=F2JigongLuohan=40rocketmail=2Ecom=3E?=
wrote:
> Tom Billings wrote:
>
> > In article
>
> Well, how about reading the following post?
<snipped past post which was answered some time back>
> So is western style democracy is definitely a better system for
> China and the Chinese people?
The idea that democracy is peculiarly 'western'
has been put to rest by the success it now
enjoys in many countries not part of the
'West', but now moving into the continuing
industrial revolution. These include Thailand,
Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and many other examples.
> The answer is crystal clear if we look at the experience of
> Russia (10 years of western style democracy) and the experience
> of India (50 years of western style democracy).
Both of which were badly bogged down by the
socialist reaction against market freedoms,
which they have yet to shake off, for the
most part.
> The situation in Russia before it embraced western style
> democracy was very similar to that in China.
No. In many ways Russia was in far worse shape,
since the totalitarian socialist reaction there
was suppressing market skills for 75 years, which
has driven most people with such skills out of
Russia. The 30 years which the PRC actively
suppressed such skills did not quite suffice
to do such damage to its people. If Mao had
somehow lived another 40 years, then the PRC
just might be in as bad a position.
> The results of Russian's since then
> 1. Inflation at a rate of closed to 1,000%
> 2. Russian currency, Rouble had the last three digits chopped off
> to reduce the 'load' of currency notes!
> 3. Per capital income became halved.
All these are attributable to the drop in oil
prices, and in oil production from 1985 onwards.
> 4. Life expectancy decreased sharply.
> 5. Living condition for most people deteriorated sharply.
> 6. Mafia took control of major financial institutions,
> manufacturing, mining and trading, both domestic and foreign
> trades.
These are attributable to the hierarchs from
the old nomenklatura still being in position,
still bleeding the populace as they have for
decades, still making it horribly difficult
for entrepreneurs to start-up and survive.
Much of our willingness to help their
government be "stable" actually helped
keep these people in their positions.
These actions came from our desire to
keep Soviet nuclear weaponry from getting
loose in the rest of the world.
That is not really working as policy, as
some of us predicted.
> Does the west have a better model for China?
> The answer, I am afraid, is NO!
You have presented no support for that
conclusion in any of your posts here.
> Chinese leaders and the people have no choice but to search for
> the best solutions for themselves in the uncharted territory if
> they want China to be more prosperous and stronger!
The continuing industrial revolution is _not_
completely uncharted territory! Others are
advancing ahead of the PRC. Not listening
as those up ahead point out the ravines and
cliffs in the terrain, just because they _are_
'others', is hardly wise.
el chupacabra
=?iso-8859-1?Q?=BC=C3=B9=AB=BB=EE=B7=F0=C0=D9=A4=BD=AC=A1=A6=F2Jigong=20=3C=BC
=C3=B9=AB=BB=EE=B7=F0=C0=D9=A4=BD=AC=A1=A6=F2JigongLuohan=40rocketmail=2Ecom=3
E?= says...
Even worse is that we Americans are so often right. That really pisses
people off. :-)
Illegitimi non Carborundum
Sally Pniewski
On Sun, 15 Aug 1999 14:26:05 GMT, Al <A...@ha.com> wrote:
><plaintext>
><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
><html>
>Certainly China will need to go into uncharted territory. But your
><br>kind of 'uncharted territory' is not good. The thugs in power
><br>are not willing to give enough power to the people who can get
><br>the job done. I have relatives like this. They try to control
><br>every single aspect of matters until the point that simply going
><br>to the rest room must be "planned."
><p>It is a known fact that many democratic countries start out under
><br>tough conditions - usually a result of an oppressive government
><br>such as PRC. The earlier years of such a government do require
><br>some 'austerity' measures that at first resemble a dictatorship.
><br>But there is a key difference. At least this kind of government
><br>offers hope, and a system for improvement. A system of
><br>laws higher than men. Even though elements of Taiwan probably
><br>didn't welcome the present form of government, the wheels
><br>were set in motion in the earlier years and progress could
><br>be stopped after than.
><p>As for your claim that Taiwan thieved all the loot from
><br>Mainland, we can see that Taiwan was in quite a poor
><br>situation until the last 20 years or so. The value we see
><br>in Taiwan today is the result of its hard working citizens
><br>not a shipment of 'loot' from the mainland. Remember
><br>the money of a country is only as good as the people
><br>that work to use it. Otherwise the loot quickly runs
><br>out. This is the problem with communism. At the time
><br>a country turns to communism they see some with loot
><br>others without and mistakenly think they can simply
><br>take the loot from some and distribute it to others.
><br>But sadly, as you are doing now, thugs neglect the point
><br>that the cooperation of people is needed rather than
><br>communist thugs reallocating resources in an anal retentive
><br>way. Human motivation works best with cooperation,
><br>not coerciveness.
><p>¼Ã¹«»î·ðÀÙ¤½¬¡¦òJigong
><¼Ã¹«»î·ðÀÙ¤½¬¡¦òJigong...@rocketmail.com>
>wrote:
><blockquote TYPE=CITE>Tom Billings wrote:
><p>> In article
><p>Well, how about reading the following post?
><p>If you really look at development in various countries in the
><br>past 200 hundred
><br>years or so, you should realize that the western style of
><br>democracy has
><br>practically only served the west well. This style (with
><br>variations, of course!)
><br>has evolved for many years (more than 200 years in the case od
><br>USA!) to what
><br>they are today.
><p>No one country has had instantaneous success with this style of
><br>democracy. In
><br>USA, for almost 200 years, only white males were 'wise enough' to
><br>vote in
><br>elections. White women were 'granted' the 'wisdom' much almost
><br>200 years later
><br>followed by the 'blacks' about 30 years ago.
><p>All these countries which are successful did not become
><br>successful (or
><br>prosperous) as a result of western style of democracy.
>In the
><br>case of USA, the
><br>'success' was built on resource-rich land forcefully acquired
><br>'free' from the
><br>natives. In a way the European emigrants had actually 'robbed'
><br>their way to
><br>prosperity. This prosperity was further sustained for many years
><br>by 'free
><br>labors' --the slaves for more than one century!
><p>In the case of European countries, ALL of them had built their
><br>prosperity while
><br>they were not democracy, on the wealth 'robbed' from their
><br>resource-rich
><br>colonies all over the world. In other words such prosperity was
><br>acquired at the
><br>fun point. It has nothing to do with democracy.
><p>Similarly, the advancement and prosperity of Japan is basically
><br>not the result
><br>of democracy. Japan became strong and prosperous under absolute
><br>monarchy.
><p>In the case of Taiwan, it is even more obvious. Before KMT
><br>escaped to the island
><br>with hundreds of tons of gold and silver from the Chinese
><br>national coffer,
><br>Taiwan was poor and backward. The amount of gold and silver
><br>brought to Taiwan by
><br>KMT government was equivalent to about US$ 1,000 of that time!
><br>in that sense,
><br>prosperity of Taiwan was also built on wealth acquired from
><br>'robbery'! Under the
><br>two Chiangs, Taiwan continue to move towards more prosperity
><br>under dictatorship,
><br>NOT democracy. Of course Taiwan also benefited tremendously from
><br>the 'cold war'
><br>where prosperous USA was ever willing to 'share' its wealth to
><br>counter the
><br>Soviet Block.
><p>South Korea also became rather prosperous under dictatorship with
><br>much help from
><br>its allies in the prosperous west.
><p>Singapore is probably the only exception. A democracy which has
><br>become
><br>prosperous under extrem conditions. However, Singapore government
><br>has been
><br>considered by the west as authoritative all the while, not
><br>democratic!
><p>Brunei and Countries in the Middle East are in a way prosperous
><br>but they are not
><br>democracy and their prosperity is mainly due to the 'black gold'
><br>(crude oil)
><br>with which they can just sit down and collect money!
><p>So is western style democracy is definitely a better system for
><br>China and the Chinese people?
><br>The answer is crystal clear if we look at the experience of
><br>Russia (10 years of western style democracy) and the experience
><br>of India (50 years of western style democracy).
><p>The situation in Russia before it embraced western style
><br>democracy was very similar to that in China.
><p>The results of Russian's since then
><br>:
><br>1. Inflation at a rate of closed to 1,000%
><br>2. Russian currency, Rouble had the last three digits chopped off
><br>to reduce the 'load' of currency notes!
><br>3. Per capital income became halved.
><br>4. Life expectancy decreased sharply.
><br>5. Living condition for most people deteriorated sharply.
><br>6. Mafia took control of major financial institutions,
><br>manufacturing, mining and trading, both domestic and foreign
><br>trades.
><br>7. etc. etc.
><p>Does the west have a better model for China?
><br>The answer, I am afraid, is NO!
><br>Chinese leaders and the people have no choice but to search for
><br>the best solutions for themselves in the uncharted territory if
><br>they want China to be more prosperous and stronger!</blockquote>
>
><p>--
><br>x-no-archive: yes
><br> </plaintext></html>
=?iso-8859-1?q?=bc=c3=b9=ab=bb=ee=b7=f0=c0=d9=a4=bd=ac=a1=a6=f2jigong=20=3c=bc=c3=b9=ab=bb=ee=b7=f0=c0=d9=a4=bd=ac=a1=a6=f2jigon
earlier.
Aluminium should not be 'talking' at all!