The Afghan war is done and finished. America, come home! Re: Taliban Trailed: Sid Harth
lo yeeOn
The top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan warns in an urgent,
confidential assessment of the war that he needs more forces within
the next year and bluntly states that without them, the eight-year
conflict "will likely result in failure," according to a copy of the
66-page document obtained by The Washington Post.
The eight-year conflict is already doomed to failure because George
Bush and his neocon puppeteers were too greedy. If it were just the
US military against Afghanistan's Taliban, the outcome would have been
decisively in our favor.
Why shouldn't it? Militarily, we _are_ the most powerfully equipped
nation in the world today. We have not only the most lethal hardware
and munitions but also the most sophisticated surveillance technology
in the world, as we control the airwave for satellite communication.
But we were too greedy. We wanted to conquer Iraq and were aiming at
Iran, North Korea, and even Venezuela, simultaneously. So, once Iraq
became the bleeding ground for Bush's coalition of the willing, the
world turned against America and the American people in turn quickly
turned against all foreign wars that Bush and company initiated.
At the same time, we continued to pretend that we were helping the
Afghanistan people as we were actually shooting at them from above,
from the airspace of their country which we gained control of.
Under such a combination of conditions, the Afghan hearts and minds
are now lost and the Taliban has established a reliable source of
voluntary fighters as McChrystal keeps sending NATO boys to kill, even
as he also simultaneously mouths the deceiving words of wanting to win
their "hearts and minds".
Out greed not only squandered our resources, the most crucial among
which is necessarily the timing required to win. Furthermore, it also
squndered cour credibility: that our war was necessary to eliminate
our mortal enemies and give us security. (How can it be true if we
went off and start a bunch of wars against people who were not our
mortal enemies and never did anything to sow terror in our country?)
So, the die has been cast and the greedy and deceitful side can no
longer fight against the tide for the Afghans to regain the sovereinty
of their country.
For Obama to send more American soldiers into Afghanistan now will
simply mean more American casualties as well as more civilian deaths,
the result of which is to swell the ranks of the Taliban fighters.
It will not only hurt Obama's 2012 reelection but also belie Obama's
words to the world that America wants to embark on a journey of
cooperation with the nations in the world, instead of exploiting them
and destroying them like Bush did in the eight years before him.
Obama felt the need to say those words because America has been widely
seen as a hegemonist and lost a lot of its credibility by people
around the world. Obama was even backed by the establishment because
it recognises the damages Bush wreaked to America. We have to turn
the page and enter into a new chapter.
So, Obama can't hope to indulge in a two-face manuever in Afghanistan
as his generals are hoping for.
The generals' perspective is necessarily more narrow than that of the
president. The former cares only about winning a war, no matter how
dirty and unreasonable it is for them to win one. But the president
is in charge of America's collective interest which spans beyond a war.
While the generals will not have to deal with the people around the
world, the nation and hence the president have to, and for years to
come.
So, the die has been cast. And Afghanistan is not a country for us to
occupy and the Taliban will be up to the Afghan people to decide its
fate as its leader.
If Taliban should turn out bad, it won't last long because the Afghan
people will turn against it as every bad ruler has met the same fate
in history.
But the Taliban now definitely looks a lot better than the foreigners
who are occupying Afghanistan and shoot at and kill them in the name
of saving them, at least in the eyes of the majority of the people in
the war-savaged country.
Obama should let McChrystal resign should the latter choose to. Obama
should stand firm and chart a new chapter for America as he has been
expected to do by the majority of the American people.
We proud Americans should not have to feel a wounded pride and cling
desperately to a lost cause and absorb its steep price of sacrifice.
The failure of the Afghan war should go down as a part of Bush's
failed legacy.
If Italy had to apologize and pay huge damage for its colonial-era
misdeeds, then would that kind of obligation we now similarly owe
to Afghanistan and Iraq be far behind?
It's not a question that we'll have to apologize and pay damage for
our crimes in Afghanistan because of Bush; but how much?
Clearly, the more we try to vanquish the Afghans in order to "win",
the more suffering we'll inflict on them, and hence the more we will
have to eventually repent and repay for.
Italy didn't do it because the Italians are especially moral or wimpy.
Italy did it because it was the best thing to do as a nation in order
to move forward.
We may say that it is really the reality which made Italy do it. So,
despite the fact that its not the way we Americans do things and we've
never apologized for any of our worldwide acts of aggression, it will
come the day when we'll have no choice but to do just that.
Obama's victory is a sign pointing to the need for America to change
its behavior, the behavior of a hegemonist, the behavior of someone
who feels entitled to do anything it pleases because it has the might
to. The days for the latter, however, is over. And it's becoming so
obvious that everyone who is not intoxicated by a blind pride can see.
Let us wake to the message of reality and stop our hemmorhage when we
still can.
America, come home from Afghanistan!
lo yeeOn
========
In article <731bbab2-b3a4-41e3...@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
bademiyansubhanallah <elcid...@gmail.com> wrote:
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/20/AR2009092002920.html
>
>The AfPak War
>Combating Extremism in Afghanistan and Pakistan | Full Coverage
>
>McChrystal: More Forces or 'Mission Failure'
>Top U.S. Commander For Afghan War Calls Next 12 Months Decisive
>
>PHOTOS
>
>Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, shown in Kandahar, makes a plea for more
>troops in a confidential assessment of the Afghan war. (By Nikki Kahn
>-- The Washington Post)
>
>Buy Photo
>
>A U.S. Army instructor is seen with new Afghan National Army recruits
>arriving at the Kabul Military Training Center. A broad effort is
>underway to train thousands of new troops to join the fight against
>the Taliban-led insurgency. (Photos By Emilio Morenatti -- Associated
>Press)
>
>The army recruits pray at the training center's mosque. (Emilio
>Morenatti - AP)
>
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>
>By Bob Woodward
>Washington Post Staff Writer
>Monday, September 21, 2009
>
>The top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan warns in an urgent,
>confidential assessment of the war that he needs more forces within
>the next year and bluntly states that without them, the eight-year
>conflict "will likely result in failure," according to a copy of the
>66-page document obtained by The Washington Post.
>
>Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal says emphatically: "Failure to gain the
>initiative and reverse insurgent momentum in the near-term (next 12
>months) -- while Afghan security capacity matures -- risks an outcome
>where defeating the insurgency is no longer possible."
>
>His assessment was sent to Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates on Aug.
>30 and is now being reviewed by President Obama and his national
>security team.
>
>McChrystal concludes the document's five-page Commander's Summary on a
>note of muted optimism: "While the situation is serious, success is
>still achievable."
>
>But he repeatedly warns that without more forces and the rapid
>implementation of a genuine counterinsurgency strategy, defeat is
>likely. McChrystal describes an Afghan government riddled with
>corruption and an international force undermined by tactics that
>alienate civilians.
>
>He provides extensive new details about the Taliban insurgency, which
>he calls a muscular and sophisticated enemy that uses modern
>propaganda and systematically reaches into Afghanistan's prisons to
>recruit members and even plan operations.
>
>McChrystal's assessment is one of several options the White House is
>considering. His plan could intensify a national debate in which
>leading Democratic lawmakers have expressed reluctance about
>committing more troops to an increasingly unpopular war. Obama said
>last week that he will not decide whether to send more troops until he
>has "absolute clarity about what the strategy is going to be."
>
>The commander has prepared a separate detailed request for additional
>troops and other resources, but defense officials have said he is
>awaiting instructions before sending it to the Pentagon.
>
>Senior administration officials asked The Post over the weekend to
>withhold brief portions of the assessment that they said could
>compromise future operations. A declassified version of the document,
>with some deletions made at the government's request, appears at
>washingtonpost.com.
>
>McChrystal makes clear that his call for more forces is predicated on
>the adoption of a strategy in which troops emphasize protecting
>Afghans rather than killing insurgents or controlling territory. Most
>starkly, he says: "[I]nadequate resources will likely result in
>failure. However, without a new strategy, the mission should not be
>resourced."
>
>'Widespread Corruption'
>
>The assessment offers an unsparing critique of the failings of the
>Afghan government, contending that official corruption is as much of a
>threat as the insurgency to the mission of the International Security
>Assistance Force, or ISAF, as the U.S.-led NATO coalition is widely
>known.
>
>"The weakness of state institutions, malign actions of power-brokers,
>widespread corruption and abuse of power by various officials, and
>ISAF's own errors, have given Afghans little reason to support their
>government," McChrystal says.
>
>The result has been a "crisis of confidence among Afghans," he writes.
>"Further, a perception that our resolve is uncertain makes Afghans
>reluctant to align with us against the insurgents."
>
>McChrystal is equally critical of the command he has led since June
>15. The key weakness of ISAF, he says, is that it is not aggressively
>defending the Afghan population. "Pre-occupied with protection of our
>own forces, we have operated in a manner that distances us --
>physically and psychologically -- from the people we seek to
>protect. . . . The insurgents cannot defeat us militarily; but we can
>defeat ourselves."
>
>McChrystal continues: "Afghan social, political, economic, and
>cultural affairs are complex and poorly understood. ISAF does not
>sufficiently appreciate the dynamics in local communities, nor how the
>insurgency, corruption, incompetent officials, power-brokers, and
>criminality all combine to affect the Afghan population."
>
>Coalition intelligence-gathering has focused on how to attack
>insurgents, hindering "ISAF's comprehension of the critical aspects of
>Afghan society."
>
>In a four-page annex on detainee operations, McChrystal warns that the
>Afghan prison system has become "a sanctuary and base to conduct
>lethal operations" against the government and coalition forces. He
>cites as examples an apparent prison connection to the 2008 bombing of
>the Serena Hotel in Kabul and other attacks. "Unchecked, Taliban/Al
>Qaeda leaders patiently coordinate and plan, unconcerned with
>interference from prison personnel or the military."
>
>The assessment says that Taliban and al-Qaeda insurgents "represent
>more than 2,500 of the 14,500 inmates in the increasingly overcrowded
>Afghan Corrections System," in which "[h]ardened, committed Islamists
>are indiscriminately mixed with petty criminals and sex offenders, and
>they are using the opportunity to radicalize and indoctrinate them."
>
>Noting that the United States "came to Afghanistan vowing to deny
>these same enemies safe haven in 2001," he says they now operate with
>relative impunity in the prisons. "There are more insurgents per
>square foot in corrections facilities than anywhere else in
>Afghanistan," his assessment says.
>
>McChrystal outlines a plan to build up the Afghan government's ability
>to manage its detention facilities and eventually put all such
>operations under Afghan control, including the Bagram Theater
>Internment Facility, which the United States runs.
>
>For now, because of a lack of capacity, "productive interrogations and
>detainee intelligence collection have been reduced" at Bagram. "As a
>result, hundreds are held without charge or without a defined way-
>ahead. This allows the enemy to radicalize them far beyond their pre-
>capture orientation. The problem can no longer be ignored."
>
>McChrystal's Plan
>
>The general says his command is "not adequately executing the basics"
>of counterinsurgency by putting the Afghan people first. "ISAF
>personnel must be seen as guests of the Afghan people and their
>government, not an occupying army," he writes. "Key personnel in ISAF
>must receive training in local languages."
>
>He also says that coalition forces will change their operational
>culture, in part by spending "as little time as possible in armored
>vehicles or behind the walls of forward operating bases."
>Strengthening Afghans' sense of security will require troops to take
>greater risks, but the coalition "cannot succeed if it is unwilling to
>share risk, at least equally, with the people."
>
>McChrystal warns that in the short run, it "is realistic to expect
>that Afghan and coalition casualties will increase."
>
>He proposes speeding the growth of Afghan security forces. The
>existing goal is to expand the army from 92,000 to 134,000 by December
>2011. McChrystal seeks to move that deadline to October 2010.
>
>He also calls for "radically more integrated and partnered" work with
>Afghan units.
>
>McChrystal says the military must play an active role in
>reconciliation, winning over less committed insurgent fighters. The
>coalition "requires a credible program to offer eligible insurgents
>reasonable incentives to stop fighting and return to normalcy,
>possibly including the provision of employment and protection," he
>writes.
>
>Coalition forces will have to learn that "there are now three outcomes
>instead of two" for enemy fighters: not only capture or death, but
>also "reintegration."
>
>Again and again, McChrystal makes the case that his command must be
>bolstered if failure is to be averted. "ISAF requires more forces," he
>states, citing "previously validated, yet un-sourced, requirements" --
>an apparent reference to a request for 10,000 more troops originally
>made by McChrystal's predecessor, Gen. David D. McKiernan.
>
>A Three-Headed Insurgency
>
>McChrystal identifies three main insurgent groups "in order of their
>threat to the mission" and provides significant details about their
>command structures and objectives.
>
>The first is the Quetta Shura Taliban (QST) headed by Mullah Omar, who
>fled Afghanistan after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and operates
>from the Pakistani city of Quetta.
>
>"At the operational level, the Quetta Shura conducts a formal campaign
>review each winter, after which Mullah Omar announces his guidance and
>intent for the coming year," according to the assessment.
>
>Mullah Omar's insurgency has established an elaborate alternative
>government known as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, McChrystal
>writes, which is capitalizing on the Afghan government's weaknesses.
>"They appoint shadow governors for most provinces, review their
>performance, and replace them periodically. They established a body to
>receive complaints against their own 'officials' and to act on them.
>They install 'shari'a' [Islamic law] courts to deliver swift and
>enforced justice in contested and controlled areas. They levy taxes
>and conscript fighters and laborers. They claim to provide security
>against a corrupt government, ISAF forces, criminality, and local
>power brokers. They also claim to protect Afghan and Muslim identity
>against foreign encroachment."
>
>"The QST has been working to control Kandahar and its approaches for
>several years and there are indications that their influence over the
>city and neighboring districts is significant and growing," McChrystal
>writes.
>
>The second main insurgency group is the Haqqani network (HQN), which
>is active in southeastern Afghanistan and draws money and manpower
>"principally from Pakistan, Gulf Arab networks, and from its close
>association with al Qaeda and other Pakistan-based insurgent groups."
>At another point in the assessment, McChrystal says, "Al Qaeda's links
>with HQN have grown, suggesting that expanded HQN control could create
>a favorable environment" for associated extremist movements "to re-
>establish safe-havens in Afghanistan."
>
>The third is the Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin insurgency, which maintains
>bases in three Afghan provinces "as well as Pakistan," the assessment
>says. This network, led by the former mujaheddin commander Gulbuddin
>Hekmatyar, "aims to negotiate a major role in a future Taliban
>government. He does not currently have geographical objectives as is
>the case with the other groups," though he "seeks control of mineral
>wealth and smuggling routes in the east."
>
>Overall, McChrystal provides this conclusion about the enemy: "The
>insurgents control or contest a significant portion of the country,
>although it is difficult to assess precisely how much due to a lack of
>ISAF presence. . . . "
>
>The insurgents make money from the production and sale of opium and
>other narcotics, but the assessment says that "eliminating insurgent
>access to narco-profits -- even if possible, and while disruptive --
>would not destroy their ability to operate so long as other funding
>sources remained intact."
>
>While the insurgency is predominantly Afghan, McChrystal writes that
>it "is clearly supported from Pakistan. Senior leaders of the major
>Afghan insurgent groups are based in Pakistan, are linked with al
>Qaeda and other violent extremist groups, and are reportedly aided by
>some elements of Pakistan's ISI," which is its intelligence service.
>Al-Qaeda and other extremist movements "based in Pakistan channel
>foreign fighters, suicide bombers, and technical assistance into
>Afghanistan, and offer ideological motivation, training, and financial
>support."
>
>Toward the end of his report, McChrystal revisits his central theme:
>"Failure to provide adequate resources also risks a longer conflict,
>greater casualties, higher overall costs, and ultimately, a critical
>loss of political support. Any of these risks, in turn, are likely to
>result in mission failure."
>
>Josh Boak and Evelyn Duffy contributed to this report.
>
>...and I am Sid Harth
>
chhotemianinshallah
France, India will halt barbarism of Taliban: Sarkozy
Updated on Saturday, October 10, 2009, 13:58 IST
New Delhi: In the wake of attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul, French
President Nicolas Sarkozy has written to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh
expressing solidarity and desire to work more closely with India in
fight against terror.
"After the despicable attack of 7th July 2008, this is the second time
in less than a year that dastardly Taliban terrorism has attacked your
diplomatic representation in Afghanistan.... I would like to express
my full support and deep solidarity to you in these painful
circumstances," Sarkozy's letter to Singh said.
He drew Singh's attention to France's "total" commitment to fighting
terrorism along side India.
"Through mutual agreement last year, we decided to reinforce
cooperation between our two countries with regard to counter-terrorism
on the morrow of the tragic events that plunged Mumbai in mourning.
"The attack perpetrated in Kabul has further strengthened my will
that India and France work even more closely in this area to halt the
barbarity of Talibans and fight all other forms of terrorism to which
India is victim," Sarkozy said.
Earlier, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner had said that "by
attacking the diplomatic representation of a state once again, the
terrorists have chosen the entire international community that aids
and supports the Afghan people as a target."
Bureau Report
chhotemianinshallah
Taliban wealthier than al-Qaida: US Treasury Dept assistant secretary
AP 13 October 2009, 09:20am IST
WASHINGTON: The Taliban are in much stronger financial shape than al-
Qaida and rely on a wide range of criminal activities to pay for
attacks on US and coalition forces in Afghanistan, a senior Treasury
Department official has said.
David Cohen, the department's assistant secretary for terrorist
financing, said the extremist group extorts money from poppy farmers
and heroin traffickers involved in Afghanistan's booming drug trade.
The Taliban also demand protection payments from legitimate Afghan
businesses, he said yesterday during a speech at a conference on money
laundering enforcement.
President Barack Obama and his top advisers are discussing whether
many more troops may be needed in the 8-year-old Afghanistan conflict.
A critical part of the deliberations is whether the fight should be a
more narrow one against al-Qaida or a broader battle against the
Taliban-led insurgency.
According to Cohen, al-Qaida is a cash-strapped organisation that is
losing its influence. That condition is the product, he said, of a
long-running effort by the United States and its allies to cut off the
terror group's sources of funding by targeting its deep-pocketed
donors and interfering with its ability to move money.
In the first half of 2009, he said, al-Qaida's leaders made four
public appeals for money to bolster recruitment and training.
bademiyansubhanallah
'Indian entities got illegal money from US firms
Express news service
Posted: Tuesday , Oct 13, 2009 at 0859 hrs
New Delhi:
The BJP on Monday asked the union government to explain “its silence”
over a letter written by India’s ambassador to the US, Meera Shankar,
to Principal Secretary in the Prime Minister’s Office, T K A Nair, on
May 12, 2009, giving “seven instances of corruption wherein government
firms or people in India are alleged to have been benefited by various
US companies”.
Four of these instances are from the time the NDA was in power. BJP
spokesperson Prakash Javadekar, who released Shankar’s letter,
however, said it wasn’t an “UPA vs NDA issue”. “It’s been five months
since the letter was released. We want to know why no action has been
taken on the basis of the revelations,” he said.
Under the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, all US companies must
provide details of illegal payments made in foreign countries. In her
letter, as released by Javadekar, Shankar listed the following
instances of payments made to Indian entities:
* On January 9, 2009, Mario Covino of Control Companies allegedly
pleaded guilty to making illegal payments of over $ 1 million to
employees of state-owned entities, including the Maharashtra State
Electricity Board.
* On Feb 14, 2008, Westinghouse Air Brake Technologies Corporation’s
Indian subsidiary, Pioneer Friction Ltd, settled civil charges in
connection with improper payments to employees of Indian Railways. The
$137,400-payment was made between 2001 and 2005.
* Subsidiaries of York International Corporation allegedly made
improper payments of over $ 7.5 million to secure orders in various
countries, including India. Payments were made from 2001 to 2006.
* C Srinivasan, a former president of A T Kearney India Ltd, allegedly
made improper payments of $720,000 to senior employees of two
partially state owned enterprises in India between 2001 and 2003.
* Textron’s subsidiaries allegedly made improper payments to secure
contracts in various countries including India in the 2001-2005
period.
* Dow Chemicals subsidiary, DE-Nocil Crop Protection Ltd, allegedly
made improper payments to various officials, including to an official
in Central Insecticides Board. Pride International too, may have made
third-party payments.
PMO sources said the matter had been referred to the Finance Ministry
whose revenue department asked the Enforcement Directorate (ED) to
investigate. The ED is learnt to have asked for more details. A case
under the Prevention of Money Laundering Act or FEMA could be filed if
authorities are able to establish a credible case, sources said.
6 Comments |
Corrupting the nation
By: Madhava M. Kotian | Tuesday , 13 Oct '09 16:04:00 PM
It is the business of CBI to investigate and file cases under
Prevention of Corruption Act against the recipients who are all
government/public servants
corruption and arrogance - cesspool of maoist ideology
By: VEERAMANI | Tuesday , 13 Oct '09 14:32:35 PM
Many of the beurocrats are not only corrupt, but arrogant also. They
think they are the rulers and treat the citizens as scum. This results
in rebellion - those who dare to take arms become Maoists; other
simply grumble and write letters. Forceful action against Maoists can
only convert more people to that philosophy - the kins, relatives and
friends will join them. To tacke maoism, to reign in the beurocracy.
Action
By: Indian | Tuesday , 13 Oct '09 13:39:54 PM
I am sure action is being taken. Let us wait for Government response.
The reporting journalist should have taken response from Government
also while printing the story.
No action in any corruption case exposed
By: Vinay | Tuesday , 13 Oct '09 12:44:24 PM
All the parties, including the current only make noise, but don't take
any action against corruption. Now also add the list of Judiciary to
them. For long we knew the corruption existing within it, but now we
see their shameless face also as they protect their own colleagues
who's corruption incidents are exposed by sitting on them
THIS PROVES THE POINT WHY SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF M.P's AND M.L.A's WANT
TO JOIN POLITICS
By: n.r.i | Tuesday , 13 Oct '09 12:04:38 PM
THIS PROVES THE POINT WHY CORRUPT CONGRESSWALA AND N.C.P., SONS AND
DAUGHTERS ARE IN QUEUE WAITING TO JOIN THE POLITICS AT ANY COST TO
LOOT - LOOT - LOOT AND MORE LOOT THE COFFERS OF THE GOVERMENT AND GET
KICK BACKS FROM FOEIGN PLAYERS . THIS PROVES WHY SONIA WANT TO SEE HER
SON TAKE MANTLE OF THE GOVERMENT SO BILLIONS CAN BE MINTED FOR THE
ENTIRE FAMILY . IT IS GOOD FEEL DAY FOR RULERS OF INDIA .
'Indian entities got illegal money from US firms'
By: unohoo | Tuesday , 13 Oct '09 11:39:40 AM
reports in newspapers also included senior Indian Navy officers
received bribes ,however there is no mention about it here? is it true
or hidden deliberately? $1,32,500 paid By agents of York,a company
dealing with heating and refrigeration equipment in small amounts of
$1000 over 6 to 7 years since 2000 to secure 215 contracts
chhotemianinshallah
Attack on GHQ should lead to immediate policy shift
October 14, 2009...10:10 am
Bilal Qureshi
Why is there so much commotion about the attack on the GHQ in
Pakistan? Come on, please; did we not know that the Taliban are a
threat to everything Pakistan?
Regretfully, there is still support for the Taliban in the country. I
was watching Ijaz-Ul-Haq, son of Zia, one of the worst dictators in
Pakistan’s history argue on TV that the government should not launch
any offensive against the Taliban. Instead, he argued, shamelessly,
that Pakistan should not fight America’s war. Before I get to Ijaz’s
despicable argument, I must say a word about the role of media in
Pakistan.
I don’t understand why is (electronic) media in Pakistan determined to
support the Taliban? I mean, if the producers, or the anchors working
for TV Channels in Pakistan don’t like the United States, fine, they
are entitled to their opinion. But to deliberately destroy, or support
those who are attacking Pakistan from within, just because America is
engaged in battle with the Taliban or the followers of Osama is
something that the country must not accept.
Make no mistake about it – this is not America’s war.
Specifically, the army must take notice of the hate that is being
spewed on TV Channels in Pakistan instead of supporting Pak Army’s
effort to defeat the Taliban and to save the country from falling into
the hands of the Taliban.
It is Pakistan that is under attack and the country must not allow the
Taliban or their supporters and apologists, especially in the media
(electronic and Urdu press) to misguide Pakistanis by confusing the
barbaric attacks on Pakistan as America’s war, please.
Imagine if India had attacked the GHQ. Would the country still argue
that this is America’s war? What if India had launched a war against
Pakistan Army in Swat and Waziristan? Would the country still demand
that America leave Afghanistan instead of taking on the Indians? No of
course not, the country would come together to fight and save itself
from annihilation and that is exactly what is needed today. Pakistanis
need to fight against the Taliban, just like they would fight against
any other aggression against Pakistan.
Now, let me say a word about Ijaz, son of Zia, a brutal dictator and
Asia’s first Taliban. Ijaz and other right wingers do have the right
to present argue whatever they want. Even though, during Zia’s time,
people were locked up for years just because they were reading (not
saying anything, just reading, believe me, not making it up) a poster,
or a book that advocated freedom of expression, democracy or religious
tolerance.
Therefore, I understand Ijaz’s pain when he and the supporters of the
Taliban see people unite against the Taliban or other hate mongers. I
don’t take Ijaz, Imran Khan, and countless other nuts in Pakistan
seriously and neither does the country. That is precisely why these
people are not elected and they don’t represent anyone in Pakistan, or
I should anyone significant. They do, however, have an audience that
supports the Taliban and these people idealize the Taliban rule in
Afghanistan as a role model. And the country must remain vigilant and
not allow these misguided Pakistanis into believing that Pakistan
would be just fine if only stops working with the United States.
Pakistan has been under attack for years now and like majority of the
country, I too was not surprised by the attack on GHQ. What shocked me
was the support for the Taliban that got free air time and a 24/7
available platform in the shape of electronic media in Pakistan. But,
the time has really come for forces of tolerance to defeat the forces
of evil. And I would argue that before crushing the Taliban, Pakistan
Army and rest of the country must determine if it is acceptable for
them to tolerate the hate and poisonous propaganda that is aired in
Pakistan.
I am not suggesting any censorship, no. But, I am asking for a way to
neutralize the hate mongers and the Taliban supporters before the
country launches a decisive battle against the nihilists currently
targeting civilians and armed forced in Pakistan.
Otherwise, the world would continue to see the United Nations, the
Marriott, the GHQ and anything and everything bombed and attacked day
after day. It is time for a decision – is Pakistan ready to give in
and accept the Taliban, or the Pakistanis want to live freely. It is
their choice. If Pakistan gave up the fight and tried to appease the
Taliban by negotiating or signing a peace treaty, the country will
still have a war. It just a matter of time
It think it is wise to remember that when Chamberlain came back to the
United Kingdom after signing Munich pact with Hitler, Churchill
predicated, accurately, that “You were given the choice between war
and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war.”
chhotemianinshallah
Top Swat Taliban commander arrested in Karachi
STAFF WRITER 16:9 HRS IST
Islamabad, Oct 14 (PTI) A top Taliban commander from the restive Swat
valley, allegedly involved in killing several security personnel, has
been arrested by police in the southern Pakistani port city of
Karachi.
Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan activist Ahmed Jan alias 'Ustaadji', was
arrested by the Crime Investigation Department in Korangi area of
Karachi yesterday. The arrest was made on the basis of intelligence
reports, police officials said.
"Investigations are in a very early phase but they reveal that the
Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan member hails from Matta sub-division of
Swat," SSP Fayyaz Khan said.
Jan has been associated with different militant groups. Initially, he
was a member of the banned Jaish-e-Mohammed and then became associated
with the outlawed Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariah Muhammadi before joining
the local Taliban, police said.
Jan was reportedly recruiting youths from Karachi and training them
for terrorist activities. "For such expertise, he is called Ustaadji,"
Khan said.
chhotemianinshallah
Taliban aims to take over nuclear armed Pak: Report
STAFF WRITER 13:19 HRS IST
Lalit K Jha
Washington, Oct 14 (PTI) Warning that Islamist extremists were aiming
to gain control over nuclear armed Pakistan, US media has told the
Obama Administration that giving up its goal to defeat Taliban would
be a catastrophe for American interest and major allies such as India.
Now that the once reluctant Pakistan Army is geared up to strike at
the heart of the movement in Waziristan, the Obama Administration is
wavering---and considering a strategy that would give up the US
attempt to defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan, 'Washington Post'
reported.
"Adopting such a strategy would condemn American soldiers to fighting
and dying without the chance of winning. But it would also cripple
Pakistan's fight against the jihadists", the paper said.
It said that during the past ten days, Pakistan's conflict with the
Taliban has escalated towards full scale war---and the extreme
Islamist movement has held the initiative.
bademiyansubhanallah
Taliban attacks
Monday, October 12, 2009 22:32 IST
The war between the Pakistan army and Taliban is getting fiercer by
the day. On Saturday, the Taliban, in an audacious move, attacked the
army headquarters in Rawalpindi and took hostages. The siege was
broken and the hostages freed only on Sunday.
On Monday, Pakistan army strafed the Swat area, stronghold of the
Taliban even as a bomb blast killed about 40 people in the region.
Pakistan's interior minister Rehman Malik vowed to flush out the
Taliban and said there was no place for them in the country.
It can be seen that there is a renewed determination on the part of
Pakistan to weed out the religious extremists, but it is also obvious
that the war is escalating.
This is not the first time that there has been a head-on confrontation
between the army and the militants but there are clear signs that the
Pakistan army now finds itself in mortal combat. The government says
it is more than just committed to get rid of the Taliban; it has now
become a compulsion.
Once it becomes clear that Pakistan is not fighting the Taliban
because it is under pressure from the United States to do so but more
because it is a battle for survival, the ideological lines will become
clear. This is not just a battle of guns and bombs but a battle of
wits and a war of ideas as well which the Pakistani establishment will
have to win.
But there is uncertainty in the air. Despite loud pronouncements from
Pakistan's leaders that they mean business when they say that they
want the Taliban out, there is the lurking suspicion that Islamabad is
fighting the religious fanatics rather reluctantly, and that
Pakistan's leaders are still looking for ways of retaining the option
of using the Taliban against Afghanistan and India.
What makes the situation grim for them is that the Taliban have turned
upon their patrons, nursing ambitions of ruling in Islamabad and
Kabul. At the moment, the extremists lack the wherewithal to realise
their goals but they can continue to be a thorn in the side of the
governments in the two countries.
Every now and then they will put on a demonstration of their strength
and their resolve as was visible in the sudden attack on the army
headquarters. It will then become necessary for Pakistan and
Afghanistan to join forces in the fight against the Taliban.
Pakistan then will have to give up its plan of using the Taliban in
Afghanistan to set up an Islamabad-friendly regime in Kabul. It is no
more America's war in south Asia but a war of survival for Pakistan
and Afghanistan.
bademiyansubhanallah
5 terror attacks in Pak in a day, 39 dead
AP 15 October 2009, 05:59pm IST
LAHORE: Teams of gunmen attacked three law enforcement facilities
across the eastern city of Lahore on Thursday, paralyzing Pakistan's
cultural capital, while a car bomb devastated a northwest police
station, killing a total of 39 people in an escalating wave of terror
in this nuclear-armed US ally.
Another bombing in the northwestern city of Peshawar later in the day
wounded five people, further rattling the country.
The bloodshed, aimed at scuttling a planned offensive into the
militant heartland along the Afghan border, highlights the militants'
ability to carry out sophisticated strikes on heavily fortified
facilities and exposes the failure of the intelligence agencies to
adequately infiltrate the extremist cells.
No group immediately claimed responsibility, though suspicion fell on
the Pakistani Taliban who have claimed other recent strikes. The
attacks Thursday also were the latest to underscore the growing threat
to Punjab, the province next to India where the Taliban are believed
to have made inroads and linked up with local insurgent outfits.
President Asif Ali Zardari said the bloodshed that has engulfed the
nation over the past 11 days would not deter the government from its
mission to eliminate the violent extremists, according to a statement
on the state-run news agency.
``The enemy has started a guerrilla war,'' Interior Minister Rehman
Malik said. ``The whole nation should be united against these handful
of terrorists, and God willing we will defeat them.''
The wave of violence practically shut down daily life in Lahore. All
government offices were ordered shut, the roads were nearly empty,
major markets did not open and stores that had been open pulled down
their shutters.
The assaults began just after 9 a.m. when a group of gunmen attacked a
building housing the Federal Investigation Agency, a law enforcement
branch that deals with matters ranging from immigration to terrorism.
``We are under attack,'' said Mohammad Riaz, an FIA employee reached
inside the building via phone by The Associated Press during the
assault. ``I can see two people hit, but I do not know who they
are.''
The attack lasted about 1 1/2 hours and ended with the death of two
attackers, four government employees and a bystander, senior
government official Sajjad Bhutta said. Senior police official
Chaudhry Shafiq said one of the dead wore a jacket bearing
explosives.
Soon after, a second band of gunman raided a police training school in
Manawan on the outskirts of the city in a brief attack that killed
nine police officers and four militants, according to police and
hospital officials. One of the gunmen was killed by police at the
compound and the other three blew themselves up.
The facility was hit earlier this year in an attack that sparked an
eight-hour standoff with the army that left 12 people dead.
A third team of at least eight gunmen scaled the back wall of an elite
police commando training center not far from the airport and attacked
the facility, Lahore police chief Pervez Rathore said.
A family barricaded itself in a room in a house, while the attackers
stood on the roof, shooting at security forces and throwing grenades,
said Lt. Gen. Shafqat Ahmad, the top military official in Lahore.
Two attackers were slain in the gunbattle and three blew themselves
up, he said. One police nursing assistant and a civilian also died in
the attack, he said.
Television footage showed helicopters in the air over one of the
police facilities and paramilitary forces with rifles and bulletproof
vests taking cover behind trees outside a wall surrounding the
compound. Rana Sanaullah, provincial law minister of Punjab province,
said police were trying to take some of the attackers alive so they
could get information from them about their militant networks.
Officials have warned that Taliban fighters close to the border are
increasingly joining forces with Punjabi militants spread out across
the country and foreign al-Qaida operatives, dramatically increasing
the dangers to Pakistan. Punjab is Pakistan's most populous and
powerful province, and the Taliban claimed recently that they were
activating cells there and elsewhere in the country for assaults.
An official at the provincial Punjab government's main intelligence
agency said they had precise information about expected attacks on
security targets and alerted police this week, but the assailants
still managed to strike. The official spoke on condition of anonymity
because he was not authorized to comment on the situation.
Despite their reach and influence, the nation's feared spy agencies
have failed to stop the bloody attacks plaguing the country.
Kamran Bokhari, an analyst with Stratfor, a US-based global
intelligence firm, said Pakistan needed to penetrate more militant
groups and intercept conversations to prevent attacks, but the task
was complicated in a country so big and populous.
``The militants are able to exploit certain things on the ground, like
the anti-American sentiment, which is not just in society — it's also
in the military,'' he added.
In the Taliban-riddled northwest, meanwhile, a suicide car bomb
exploded next to a police station in the Saddar area of Kohat,
collapsing half the building and killing 11 people — three police
officers and eight civilians — Kohat police chief Abdullah Khan said.
Early Thursday evening, a bomb planted in a car outside a home in the
Gulshan Rehman area of Peshawar city exploded, city police chief Ijaz
Khan said. A nearby school was closed at the time. Local police
official Aalam Sher said five wounded people were hospitalized.
Footage shown on local TV showed people who appeared to be teenagers
being put into ambulances. The damaged vehicle was flipped on its side
and jutted out of what appeared to be a garage. Piles of bricks
littered the nearby roads.
The US has encouraged Pakistan to take strong action against
insurgents who are using its soil as a base for attacks in
Afghanistan, where US troops are bogged down in an increasingly
difficult war. It has carried out a slew of its own missile strikes in
Pakistan's lawless tribal belt over the past year, killing several top
militants including Pakistani Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud.
One suspected US missile strike killed four people overnight Thursday
when it hit a compound in an area in North Waziristan tribal region
where members of the militant network led by Jalaluddin Haqqani are
believed to operate, two intelligence officials said. They spoke on
condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to
the media.
Pakistan formally protests the missile strikes as violations of its
sovereignty, but many analysts believe it has a secret deal with the
US allowing them.
The militants have claimed credit for a wave of attacks that began
with an October 5 strike on the UN food agency in Islamabad and
included a siege of the army's headquarters in the garrison city of
Rawalpindi that left 23 people dead.
The Taliban have warned Pakistan to stop pursuing them in military
operations.
The Pakistani army has given no time frame for its expected offensive
in South Waziristan tribal region, but has reportedly already sent two
divisions totaling 28,000 men and blockaded the area.
Fearing the looming offensive, about 200,000 people have fled South
Waziristan since August, moving in with relatives or renting homes in
the Tank and Dera Ismail Khan areas, a local government official said,
speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to
talk to the media.
bademiyansubhanallah
Taliban chief threatens to dispatch militants to fight India
PTI 15 October 2009, 05:16pm IST
ISLAMABAD: As his militants wrought havoc in the country by a series
of attacks and suicide blasts, Pakistani Taliban chief Hakimullah
Mehsud has threatened to dispatch terrorists to fight India, once an
Islamic state had been created in Pakistan.
"We want an Islamic state. If we get that, then we will go to the
borders and help fight the Indians," Hakimullah said in footage aired
by Britain's Sky News channel.
The channel said it recently acquired the footage of Hakimullah, who
claimed responsibility for several attacks across Pakistan over the
past week, including a terrorist assault on the Army's General
Headquarters in the garrison city of Rawalpindi over the weekend.
"We are fighting the (Pakistani) military, police and militia because
they are following American orders. If they stop following their
orders, we will stop fighting them," said Hakimullah, in what was seen
as desperate last minute efforts to stop Pakistan army's offensive
into his group's stronghold of Waziristan.
Hakimullah was named the new chief of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan
after his predecessor Baitullah Mehsud was killed in a US drone attack
in Waziristan in August.
chhotemianinshallah
Taliban strike Pakistan at will
Omer Farooq Khan, TNN 16 October 2009, 01:55am IST
ISLAMABAD: A wave of audacious terror attacks in Pakistan -- three in
the country's cultural and political hub of Lahore and one each in the
northwestern cities of Peshawar and Kohat -- on Thursday left 39
people dead and several others injured.
The near-simultaneous and coordinated attacks follow a pattern of
destabilizing ambushes on Pakistan's security facilities in the run-up
to Islamabad's planned offensive in the Taliban stronghold of
Waziristan in the tribal northwest.
The Pakistani army, buoyed by its successes against militants in the
one-time tourist paradise of Swat, have been pounding Taliban and al-
Qaida positions in the lawless area. But the string of attacks after a
brief lull following Pakistan Taliban chief Baituallah Mehsud's death
in a US drone attack in August has left the force demoralized and is
likely to divide opinion on the proposed ground offensive.
The attacks also highlighted the growing links between the Taliban and
the Punjabi terrorist outfits. The Taliban who draw recruits mainly
from the Pashtun tribes in the northwest are believed to have found
allies in Punjabi terrorists who can easily melt into the crowds in
areas like Lahore, barely 30km or a 15-minute drive from Amritsar.
Thursday's carnage began in Lahore at 9.15 am, when Taliban terrorists
in police uniform stormed the Lahore branch of the Federal
Investigation Agency, which deals with immigration and terrorism-
related offences. Minutes later, gunmen attacked Manawan police
training centre and the elite police training institute at Bedian on
the city outskirts, killing at least six people.
A police officer said 10 people, including four officials, were killed
and five others injured in the attack on the FIA building.
Lahore police chief Pervez Rathore said the siege at FIA building
dragged on for two hours. ``The attackers were wearing suicide-bomb
vests,'' he said.
Five gunmen raided Manawan police training school Lahore, he added,
sparking a gunbattle which left six police officers and all assailants
dead. ``Three gunmen wearing suicide jackets blew themselves up on
Manawan campus,'' the officer said.
Manawan police training academy on the outskirts of Lahore, just a few
kilometres from the Wagah border, was attacked in March. The eight-
hour Mumbai 26/11 type attack had left 12 people dead.
A third group of terrorists attacked the elite police commando
training centre near Lahore airport. The fighting that lasted more
than four hours left five gunmen and one police officer dead. The US
has trained Pakistani instructors from the centre in the past.
TV footage showed helicopters in the air over one of the police
facilities and paramilitary forces with rifles and bulletproof vests
taking cover behind trees outside the compound's wall.
In the Taliban-riddled northwest, a suicide bomber blew an explosives-
laden vehicle outside a police station, killing at least 11 people and
injuring 16. ``The explosion was so powerful that the police station
collapsed. Police later recovered mangled bodies from the rubble,''
said an eyewitness. Later in the day, a car bomb was detonated in a
Peshawar residential colony, killing at least one child and injured 12
others, officials said.
More than 140 people have been killed in Pakistan during the last two
weeks. The recent wave of attacks began with an October 5 strike on
the UN food agency in Islamabad.
President Asif Ali Zardari said the carnage over the past two weeks
wouldn't deter the government from ``its mission to eliminate the
extremists''.
Interior minister Rehman Malik said the enemy has started guerrilla
attacks. ``The nation should be united against these terrorists; we'll
defeat them.'' He said the interior ministry had inputs on possible
attacks on the buildings of law enforcement agencies.
The assaults highlight the Taliban's ability to carry out
sophisticated strikes on heavily fortified facilities and exposes the
failure of the intelligence agencies to infiltrate extremist ranks.
Analysts say Pakistan needs to penetrate more militant groups and
intercept conversations to prevent attacks.
chhotemianinshallah
Terror siege in Lahore went on for over 2 hours
Omer Farooq Khan, TNN 16 October 2009, 12:48am IST
ISLAMABAD: Terror attack in Lahore, which killed 39 people, began at
9.15am, when Taliban terrorists in police uniform stormed the Lahore
branch of the Federal Investigation Agency, which deals with
immigration and terrorism-related offences.
Minutes later, gunmen attacked Manawan police training centre and the
elite police training institute at Bedian on the city outskirts,
killing at least six people.
A police officer said 10 people, including four officials, were killed
and five others injured in the attack on the FIA building. Lahore
police chief Pervez Rathore said the siege dragged on for two hours.
‘‘The attackers were wearing suicide-bomb vests,’’ he said.
Five gunmen raided Manawan police training school Lahore, he added,
sparking a gunbattle which left six police officers and all assailants
dead. The academy on the outskirts of Lahore, a few kilometres from
the Wagah border, was attacked in March.
A third group of terrorists attacked the elite police commando
training centre near Lahore airport. The fighting that lasted over
four hours left five gunmen and one police officer dead. The US has
trained Pakistani instructors from the centre in the past.
In the Taliban-riddled northwest, a suicide bomber blew an explosives-
laden vehicle outside a police station, killing at least 11 people and
injuring 16. Later in the day, a car bomb was detonated in a Peshawar
residential colony, killing at least one child and injured 12 others,
officials said.
President Asif Ali Zardari said the carnage over the past two weeks
wouldn’t deter the government from ‘‘its mission to eliminate the
extremists’’.
Interior minister Rehman Malik said the enemy has started guerrilla
attacks.
...and I am Sid Harth
chhotemianinshallah
Is Pak losing war against Taliban?
Omer Farooq Khan, TNN 16 October 2009, 01:13am IST
ISLAMABAD: The brazen simultaneous suicide attacks at separate places
in Pakistan on Thursday accompanied by guerrilla-style operations
clearly demonstrate that the Taliban retain the might to take on the
state at several fronts despite setbacks in Swat in Pakistan’s
northwest.
The most worrying factor, however, for Islamabad is that the attacks
bear the fingerprints of the Punjabi terror outfits which are rallying
around the Taliban to make things worse for the Pakistan regime. The
government is finding itself helpless in the face of destabilizing
attacks that have intensified after the militia regrouped after the
death of its ruthless commander Baitullah Mehsud in a US drone attack
in August.
“The real threat of sophisticated militant attacks now comes from
Punjab where militants have engaged the security forces in face-to-
face fighting”, an official said.
Lahore has become a prime target. Terrorists have carried out several
attacks on the city, Pakistan’s cultural and political hub. In March,
insurgents attacked the Sri Lankan cricket team who had come to Lahore
for a tournament and dealt a body blow to Pakistani cricket.
Punjabi terrorist outfit Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ), with strong links
with the Taliban and al-Qaida, is believed to have masterminded the
attack. The Punjabi terrorists and Taliban nexus means Pakistan has to
fight the war on many fronts and it can’t be won just by driving
militants out of the Swat.
LeJ terrorist Mohammed Aqeel alias Dr Usman, one of the accused in the
attack on the cricketers, was arrested after he led the attack on
Pakistan army’s headquarters in Rawalpindi last week.
Similarly, gunmen from militant outfits in southern Punjab had earlier
stormed the Manawan police academy in Lahore, which was attacked on
Thursday as well. The attacks, an obvious tactic to frighten Pakistan
from launching the Waziristan operation, seem to be working. Soon
after the Pakistan army headquarters was stormed, the ruling ANP in
Pakistan’s northwest asked Islamabad to reconsider the Waziristan
operation.
All militant attacks carried out in Lahore and other parts of Punjab
in the last one year have been traced to Punjabi outfits — LeJ and
Maulana Masood Azhar led Jaish-e-Mohammad. Jaish is also responsible
for several attacks in India including the audacious attack on
Parliament in 2001.
The repeated strikes in the past two weeks clearly show that the
militants are equally adept at both guerrilla warfare and unleashing
suicide attacks. “They have targeted crowded markets to terrorise the
masses”, an official said.
The Taliban have threatened to continue the attacks if the government
goes ahead with the Waziristan offensive.
“We’ve enough bombers and they are asking me to let them sacrifice
their lives, but we’ll send suicide bombers only if the government
acts against us”, a Taliban commander said.
In Islamabad, the rulers are dithering and there is no political
consensus on tackling terror. “We should stop playing games of good
and bad Taliban on our eastern (Indian) and western fronts”, said
political analyst Amir Mateen.
chhotemianinshallah
Withering state a big worry for India
TNN 16 October 2009, 01:10am IST
As Pakistan reeled under a wave of terrorist attacks, it’s the
degrading of the Pakistani state that concerns Indian analysts most.
Taliban militants on Thursday unleashed five terror attacks in Lahore
and Kohat, NWFP in what is swiftly becoming a relentless assault by
jihadis — claiming more than 150 lives in successive attacks since
October 5. Just Thursday’s series of attacks left over 41 dead and
scores injured. Ten of the attackers were gunned down by security
forces or blew themselves up.
Ajit Doval, former head of Indian intelligence said the apparent
degradation of the Pakistani state had regional and global
implications. “The situation is explosive,” he said, “because we are
witnessing the steady degradation of a nuclear state.”
The army and the jihadis have emerged as the predominant players with
the civilian government firmly pushed into the background.
While it’s easy to say Pakistan had it coming, there does not appear
to be any real acknowledgment yet in Islamabad of ground realities —
that the jihadis paid for and nurtured by the Pakistan army and ISI
are coming home to roost.
“We must never lose sight of the fact that the Pakistan army has never
condemned Taliban for their ideology or tactics, just their targets.
If jihadis shifted their targets tomorrow to, say, India, the Pakistan
army would be back to where they started, supporting them.”
Evidently, even the Pakistan Taliban feel this way. Hakimullah Mehsud,
successor to Baitullah Mehsud and the leader of the attacks, said that
if Pakistan stopped following US orders the attacks would stop. He
added that if they wanted the Taliban to attack India Mehsud would
oblige. This is an echo of Baitullah’s announcement after the Mumbai
attacks that he would lead his jihadis against India, if India
attacked Pakistan.
B Raman, terrorism expert, raised another pertinent point. “While the
morale and resilience of the terrorists belonging to different Taliban
affiliates have been steadily increasing, there are worrisome signs of
poor morale and motivation among the security forces.
“One notices also an alarming casualness and a lack of professionalism
in performing their counter-terrorism tasks. There is a tendency, even
in the army, to avoid coming to terms with the ground reality, which
is that the situation, which has already deteriorated in the Pashtun
tribal belt, has now started deteriorating in the non-tribal areas of
Punjab.”
Certainly, the Taliban attack on the Pakistan army GHQ was announced
in a newspaper. A Pakistan daily, The News, carried accounts of an
intelligence report saying the GHQ would be targeted, by terrorists in
army uniforms. Yet the terrorists penetrated this high-security
establishment, killing officers and enacting a hostage crisis.
Ajai Sahni, terrorism analyst believes Pakistan “is on an irreversible
trajectory of decline. Nothing can stem the rot.” He said, the recent
Swat campaign showed clearly that the Taliban had moved away to fight
another war. “The state has no capacity to check the Taliban now.”
chhotemianinshallah
Taliban's political ace: A letter to Shanghai group
Indrani Bagchi, TNN 16 October 2009, 12:57am IST
The Taliban are no political neophytes. In a shrewd political move,
the Taliban sent a letter to the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation
(SCO) meeting in Beijing on Wednesday to ask the regional body to
intervene and solve the ongoing crisis in Afghanistan.
The letter, written in Pashto, signifies two important aspects. First,
that the Taliban are functioning as a unified organisation, with a
definite leadership, and feeling strong enough to seek
negotiations as a political body. Second, the letter is an attempt to
exploit the differences between
the China-Russia-CIS combine against the United States, highlighting
the general perception that the SCO is intended to keep the US out of
the Central Asian region.
In the open letter, which was publicised by the Chinese official media
on Thursday, the Taliban said, “We call on the Shanghai Cooperation
Organization to assist countries in the region against colonialists
and adopt a strong stance against the occupation of Afghanistan”.
The Taliban letter, coming while the US president Barack Obama engages
in successive reviews of his Af-Pak strategy, is clearly trying to
take advantage of the evident weakness of the US and the Taliban
conviction that they are on the winning side. In many ways, the
political show of strength by the Taliban is a direct criticism of the
coalition in Afghanistan.
Describing the presence of the international troops there as an
occupation force, the Taliban asked SCO to take a “tough” stance
against this. In return, the Taliban — calling themselves the ‘Islamic
Emirate of Afghanistan’ — promised that when they returned to power
they would establish friendly relations with all neighbouring states,
after foreign troops had been expelled.
They asked the SCO “not to trust the propaganda of the colonial powers
as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan would not damage any country and
would rather open the door for strengthening peace, stability and
economic cooperation in the region”. They said, “Both Nato and US
forces in the excuse of fighting terrorists have been killing the
people of Afghanistan.”
chhotemianinshallah
'Afghan mess has spilled over to Pak'
Sameer Arshad, TNN 16 October 2009, 12:54am IST
Thursday’s coordinated attacks on separate police facilities across
Pakistan have intensified calls for Islamabad’s withdrawal from the US-
led war on terror in Afghanistan, which its opponents believe was the
real cause of “mayhem in Pakistan”.
Pakistan cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan, who has over the
years become the most vocal critic of America’s involvement in
Afghanistan, said as long as imperialistic forces are stationed across
the Durand Line, Pakistan would continue to bleed.
“We’ve more Pashtuns in Pakistan and they empathise with their
brethren across the border and support their yearning for freedom”,
said the politician, who has been aligned to hardline Jamaat-I-Islami.
“The Afghan mess had spilled over to Pakistan”.
He said Islamabad shot itself in the foot when it allied with the US
and started bombing its own people. “Now we’ve a situation where the
entire Pashtun population has turned against us”, he said. He said
Pakistan has no homegrown policy on countering the mess. “It’s
following the failed US policy of carpet bombing people that has long
turned to be counterproductive”.
The Oxford-educated cricketer said the Pakistani rulers starting with
military dictator Pervez Musharraf have been taking dictation from the
west, because the US is bankrolling them. “We had no violent Taliban
before Islamabad allied with the US’s Afghan disaster”.
He said the Taliban are no uniform outfit and that the entire issue
had become messy. “There are our own tribal people who have genuine
grievances but the Taliban has become hotchpotch with all sorts of
criminals joining them.’’
Khan said Musharraf started the war which Pakistanis don’t consider
was for them. “No Pakistani was involved with al-Qaida and now when
you’ve this impression that our rulers are fighting US war, we have
landed in this mess”.
He said Pakistan was getting nothing out of the war. “Compared to
$80,000 spent per head on American soldiers per year, around 12,0000
Pakistani soldiers fighting American war get just $900.’’
He said that the only way out for Pakistan was to pull out of
“somebody else’s war”.
Imtiaz Gul, author of ‘The Al Qaida Connection: Terror in Tribal
Areas’, agrees with Imran in part and says Pakistan is always asked to
do more but now it’s the time for the international community to do
more for Islamabad.
He called on India to support Pakistan instead of pushing it around.
“Pakistan has paid a heavy price for its war on terror. We’ve lost
more than 2,000 people in last two years and Indians should understand
and support us.”
bademiyansubhanallah
Pakistan Attacks Show Tighter Militant Links
By JANE PERLEZ
Published: October 15, 2009
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — A wave of attacks against top security
installations over the last several days demonstrated that the
Taliban, Al Qaeda and militant groups once nurtured by the government
are tightening an alliance aimed at bringing down the Pakistani state,
government officials and analysts said.
More than 30 people were killed Thursday in Lahore, the second largest
city in Pakistan, as three teams of militants assaulted two police
training centers and a federal investigations building. The dead
included 19 police officers and at least 11 militants, police
officials said.
Nine others were killed in two attacks at a police station in Kohat,
in the northwest, and a residential complex in Peshawar, capital of
North-West Frontier Province.
The assaults in Lahore, coming after a 20-hour siege at the army
headquarters in Rawalpindi last weekend, showed the deepening reach of
the militant network, as well as its rising sophistication and inside
knowledge of the security forces, officials and analysts said.
The umbrella group for the Pakistani Taliban, Tehrik-e-Taliban,
claimed responsibility for the attacks in Lahore, the independent
television news channel Geo reported on its Web site.
But the style of the attacks also revealed the closer ties between the
Taliban and Al Qaeda and what are known as jihadi groups, which
operate out of southern Punjab, the country’s largest province,
analysts said. The cooperation has made the militant threat to
Pakistan more potent and insidious than ever, they said.
The government has tolerated the Punjabi groups, including Jaish-e-
Muhammad and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, for years, and many Pakistanis
consider them allies in just causes, including fighting India, the
United States and Shiite Muslims. But they have become entwined with
the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and have increasingly turned on the state.
The alliance has now stepped up attacks as the military prepares an
assault on the Taliban stronghold of South Waziristan, where senior
members of the Punjabi groups also find sanctuary and support.
“These are all Punjabi groups with a link to South Waziristan,” Aftab
Ahmed Sherpao, a former interior minister, said, explaining the recent
attacks.
In a rare acknowledgment of the lethal combination of forces, Interior
Minister Rehman Malik said that a “syndicate” of militant groups
wanted to see “Pakistan as a failed state.”
“The banned Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, Jaish-e-Muhammad, Al Qaeda and
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi are operating jointly in Pakistan,” Mr. Malik told
journalists, pledging a more effective counterstrategy.
In Washington, senior intelligence officials said the multiple
coordinated attacks were a characteristic of operations influenced by
Al Qaeda. But the officials said they were still sifting through
intelligence reports to determine whether the attacks indeed marked an
attempt by Al Qaeda to assert more influence over the Pakistani
Taliban’s operations.
They said the assaults also might have been orchestrated by the
Taliban to avenge the death of Baitullah Mehsud, the Pakistani Taliban
leader, and send a stark message that the insurgents could still carry
out daring attacks without him.
The fresh violence highlights the expanding challenges as the Obama
administration tries to bolster Pakistan’s civilian government and
encourage the military to press its campaign against the Taliban.
On Thursday, President Obama signed a civilian aid package for
Pakistan of $7.5 billion over five years. The package has prompted
friction over conditions for the aid — like greater civilian oversight
of the military and demands that Pakistan drop support for militant
groups — which army officers and politicians considered infringements
on Pakistan’s sovereignty.
The White House issued a statement on Thursday noting the shared
interests of the countries. However, in a sign of scant sympathy for
the unappreciative reaction to the money, there was no signing
ceremony.
The rise in more penetrating terrorist attacks may now add its own
pressure on the Pakistani government to crack down on the Punjabi
militants. It is time for the government to come out in public and
explain the nature of the enemy, said Khalid Aziz, a former chief
secretary of North-West Frontier Province.
“The national narrative in support of jihad has confused the Pakistani
mind,” Mr. Aziz said. “All along we’ve been saying these people are
trying to fight a war of Islam, but there is a need for transforming
the national narrative.”
The jihadi groups were formally banned by the former president, Pervez
Musharraf, after the Sept. 11 attacks, when Pakistan joined the United
States in the campaign against terrorism.
But the groups have entrenched domestic and political constituencies,
as well as shadowy ties to former military officials and their
families, analysts said. Even since the ban, they have been allowed to
operate in Punjab, often in the open.
Punjab is the major recruiting center for the Pakistani Army and it
hosts more army divisions than any other province. Yet “these groups
proliferate and operate with impunity, literally under the nose of
Pakistan’s army,” said Christine Fair, assistant professor at the
Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University.
A large congregation of jihadi groups, including Jaish-e-Mohammad and
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, met six months ago in Rawalpindi, the city where
the army headquarters was attacked last Saturday, said Mr. Sherpao,
the former interior minister.
The nature of the Lahore attacks drove home the point that the “war
has come to Punjab,” and that the government can no longer hide the
alliance between the Taliban in South Waziristan and the forces in
Southern Punjab, said Zaffar Abbas, a prominent journalist at the
English-language newspaper Dawn.
Until the people are told the real situation, the government will
never win the support of the people “to fight this bloody war,” Mr.
Abbas said.
In fact, many Pakistanis do not see the jihadi groups as the enemy,
said Farrukh Saleem, the executive director for the Center for
Research and Security Studies in Islamabad. “They feel America is in
the region and the Pakistani Army is fighting for an American army and
the jihadis have a right to retaliate,” he said.
The senior personnel in the security forces seem to understand the
gravity of the militants’ strength and the durability of their
network, Mr. Saleem said. But they cannot bring themselves to say
publicly that those whom they created are coming back to bite them, he
said.
The ringleader of the assault on the army headquarters on Saturday,
identified as Muhammad Aqeel, was a member of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi,
according to the military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas. Mr. Aqeel,
who was captured alive, is also a former soldier in the Army Medical
Corps, a background that appeared to have helped in planning the
attack.
Two of the facilities attacked in and near Lahore on Thursday — the
six-story building of the federal investigations agency, and a police
training unit in the suburb of Manawan — were hit by militants in
deadly assaults in 2008 and earlier this year.
The coordination of the attacks by three teams between 9 and 10 a.m.
startled police officials as they scrambled to send commandos to each
of the sites.
The raid on the headquarters of the Punjab elite police training
school was seen as particularly insulting because its graduates,
trained in counterterrorism techniques, are considered the pride of
the province.
Five militants scaled a wall of the elite training school, where more
than 800 recruits had just started classes, said Maj. Gen. Shafqat
Ahmed, the officer commanding security forces in Lahore.
Six police officers were killed and seven were wounded in a gun battle
that lasted more than two hours, police officials said. All five of
the attackers were killed, they said.
Reporting was contributed by Salman Masood from Islamabad, Waqar
Gilani from Lahore, Pakistan, Pir Zubair Shah from Peshawar, Pakistan,
and Eric Schmitt from Washington.
bademiyansubhanallah
October 15, 2009 , 10:10 am
Video and Reaction From Pakistan to Another Day of Attacks
By Robert Mackey
As another day of militant attacks in Pakistan unfolded on Thursday,
Pakistani television once again broadcast video of chaotic scenes in a
major city, and the country’s bloggers expressed outrage at both the
Taliban and the government for failing to stop the violence.
This report from Britain’s Channel 4 News includes video shot by
Pakistani stations in Lahore on Thursday, during and after the
coordinated strikes by militants on three police buildings in
Pakistan’s second-largest city:
The British broadcaster ITN posted this report on YouTube earlier
today, which also includes footage from Pakistani channels of the
Lahore attacks:
Writing on Twitter from Islamabad, Ali Hammad, a software engineer,
responded to the first news of the attacks this morning by complaining
that the civilian authorities seem preoccupied with securing a
controversial aid package from the United States. In the telegraphic
style of Twitter text messaging, he wrote:
v r getin butchered by these freaks n our Leadership is puttin all its
energies to get 1.5 billion .. shame shame shame
Another blogger, writing on Twitter under the screen name mirza9,
noted reports that “at least 3 women were part of the terrorist team
that attacked the Elite Force training center at Bedian Road,” and
commented,
So the taliban flogs unaccompanied women in public but then has them
go out on suicidal terrorist missions.
Perhaps giving a sense of how much a part of ordinary life these
violent attacks have become in Pakistan, mirza9 also broke off to
note,
Argentina secure place in World Cup through 84th minute goal. For that
I thank God: Maradona.
Ali Hammad also broke off from commenting on the attacks to discuss a
Facebook game that his co-workers enjoy, before reflecting on how
Pakistanis seem to be taking the wave of attacks in stride:
are we Pakiz really sick or living among educated ppl make me think
that we are awesome?????
Despite all whats happening outside .. i dont feel any fear going to
any place in my city– is this courage or we have become numb????
On its YouTube channel, the Pakistani newspaper Dawn published video
shot earlier on Thursday of government forces massing outside “the
elite police academy in Bedian, near Lahore,” where, the newspaper
reported, “out of the 13 terrorists who attacked the Elite Academy,
three were female, officials said.”
Dawn also published this video, shot during the attack on the regional
center of the Federal Investigation Agency, an elite division of the
country’s police force:
Dawn included some video of today’s attacks in this analysis of how
the militants’ tactics seem to be evolving to include suicide bombing,
which, as Dawn’s reporter notes, was not a feature of the commando
raid on Mumbai last year in neighboring India:
The BBC published this video report from Lahore, filed earlier on
Thursday, and this raw video from Kohat, in Pakistan’s northwest,
where there was a separate suicide attack on a police station.
In a post on his Global Security Blog, The Guardian’s Julian Borger
notes that the targets of today’s attacks in Lahore seem to have been
chosen to show that the militants can strike even the most powerful
parts of Pakistan’s security apparatus:
On a recent trip to Lahore, organised by a Pakistani think tank for a
group of journalists and South Asia pundits, the security was provided
by an elite police group who dressed in black T shirts with the slogan
‘No Fear’ on the back. These same policemen were the victims of
today’s attacks in Pakistan’s city of culture.
This was the opposite of a soft target. Like the stunning attack on
army headquarters in Rawalpindi earlier this week, the target has been
chosen precisely because it was difficult. The message is clear: there
is nothing invulnerable to us, nothing we cannot reach.
1 . CallingASpade California October 15th, 2009 11:41 am
Quick, but not a trick, question: where else have we seen the same
similar pattern of armed, trained militants, originating from the same
groups now in the news, attacking army bases, police stations,
civilian settings?
Answer: India. Time period: the last ten or so years.
The Pakistani establishment (ISI, military...) provided training,
weaponry, technology, a safe environment, etc. so the militants can
act as a proxy force in wrecking mayhem in India (and later,
Afghanistan). Sites attacked included the Indian Parliament, army
bases, hotels and public squares and marketplaces, etc. All along
Pakistan claimed to have no hand in that. And now they are faced with
what they created and one can only hope it hurts them enough to bring
them to their senses and into the civilized world. Or perhaps it
devours those who created it leaving the civilized world to then wipe
out all what remains in that country, its ideology and deviousness and
its culture.
Recommended by 54 Readers
Robert Mackey Reporter, Lede Blog October 15th, 2009 11:41 am
Did you notice that the video analysis of militant tactics from the
Pakistani newspaper Dawn, which we embedded in the post above,
includes footage of the Mumbai attack? That seems to indicate that
some people in Pakistan do believe that the militants striking inside
Pakistan are related to those that have struck India in the past.
2 . Manoj Boulder, CO October 15th, 2009 11:41 am
The alliance of convenience between Islamic fundamentalism and
government apparatus - that the previous Pakistani military dictators
promoted - is reaping the benefits.
Recommended by 28 Readers
3 . Faisal California October 15th, 2009 11:46 am
As usual Indians having an itch. Tsk Tsk
Recommended by 11 Readers
4 . CallingASpade California October 15th, 2009 1:19 pm
As an American I see Indians scratching themselves when they have an
itch. On the other hand I see Pakistanis, on an itch, scratching
others. And they have done it with American money and American
weaponry, all the while working against American interests. Selling
nuclear weapon technology around the world, with the support of the
military and government. Funding and maintaining the militants that
today kill American soldiers and others as well in Afghanistan, not to
mention the innumerable terrorist attacks in India.
The Pakistanis can keep "tsk tsk"ing. It is incumbent on the world to
put out these militants and their sponsors. Let's hold back just a bit
as they seem to be putting out each other and we only need to take
care of what survives.
Recommended by 38 Readers
5 . Larry N Los Altos CA USA October 15th, 2009 1:19 pm
Can't we develop some technology to help deter these attacks? For
example, implanted RFID's in the certified police ranks?
Recommended by 2 Readers
6 . Shultz 26 Canada October 15th, 2009 1:19 pm
It should be obvious at this point that the war in Afghanistan has
seriously de-stablized Pakistan. To continue this policy would be a
grave mistake. In terms of US strategic interests in the area,
Pakistan, nuclear armed state is far more important than of
Afghanistan, and so I belive that President Obama would be better
served paying attention to the advise of Vice President Biden rather
than that of General McCrystal.
Recommended by 11 Readers
7 . karen lyons kalmenson great neck, ny October 15th, 2009 1:20 pm
it is quite obvious which direction this is heading, and our
involvement will not alter that course
Recommended by 3 Readers
8 . Desi Observer Mexico October 15th, 2009 1:20 pm
Sad, indeed. Death, destruction and carnage aside the one thing that
is not immediately apparent but nevertheless sad is the grossly
terrible state of the police (and even military) apparatus in
Pakistan. India being no better as was evident during the Mumbai
attacks. You can thank every politician and bureaucrat for that and
chalk it up to democracy gone awry where the law is treated as merely
a recommendation and corruption and nepotism are the order of the day.
I'm not sure what good it ever does but let the finger pointing
continue.
Recommended by 1 Readers
9 . Nick Dosa October 15th, 2009 1:20 pm
In my opinion, the ISI is probably letting this happen. This way the
ISI, the Pakistani govt and the Pakistani Army can then play innocent
by saying "look! how much blood we are shedding and hurt we are
taking, all because we have signed up for your war on terror. Give us
unconditional aid!!! (so that our military can use it to fund
terrorist proxy groups that fight India. No Questions Asked)".
Recommended by 27 Readers
10 . Prof. Jai Prakash Sharma Jaipur (India) October 15th, 2009 1:20
pm
In order to bleed India through low intensity war and seek strategic
depth in Afghanistan, the wind of violent Islamic militancy which was
sown by Pakistan military and its spy agency, the ISI, does seem to
have now turned out to be a whirlwind threatening the very existence
of Pakistan, conveying a clear message that if an attempt is made to
turn terrorism as an instrument of state policy, it could only prove
self destructive.
Recommended by 23 Readers
11 . simple simon irvine, ca October 15th, 2009 1:28 pm
Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. Poor Pakistan is
suffering from self-inflicted wounds. It was Benazir Bhutto’s
democratic government of Pakistan that chose of its own free will to
facilitate relocation of Osama bin Laden from Sudan to Afghanistan in
1990s. Sandy Berger, Clinton’s national security advisor had told 9/11
Commission in March 2004 : “Pakistani Army was the ‘midwife’ of
Taliban“. Ex-CIA official Bruce Riedel said in an interview on
1/29/2009 that ''In Pakistan, the jihadist Frankenstein monster that
was created by the Pakistani army and the Pakistani intelligence
service, is now increasingly turning on its creators. It's trying to
take over the laboratory.'' Pakistani Army and Intelligence chose to
create this ‘jihadist Frankenstein monster’ with full blessings and
financing by Pakistan’s democratic governments in 1990s.
Declassified U.S. Department of State, Cable "Pakistan Support for
Taliban" from Islamabad dated Sept. 26, 2000 states that "while
Pakistani support for the Taliban has been long-standing, the
magnitude of recent support is unprecedented." In response Washington
orders the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad to immediately confront Pakistani
officials on the issue and to advise Islamabad that the U.S. has "seen
reports that Pakistan is providing the Taliban with materiel, fuel,
funding, technical assistance and military advisors. [The Department]
also understand[s] that large numbers of Pakistani nationals have
recently moved into Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban, apparently
with the tacit acquiescence of the Pakistani government." Additional
reports indicate that direct Pakistani involvement in Taliban military
operations has increased.
Declassified DIA Washington D.C., "IIR (intelligence Information
Report) Pakistan Involvement in Afghanistan," dated November 7, 1996
states how "Pakistan's ISI is heavily involved in Afghanistan," and
also details different roles various ISI officers play in Afghanistan.
Stating that Pakistan uses sizable numbers of its Pashtun-based
Frontier Corps in Taliban-run operations in Afghanistan, the document
clarifies that, "these Frontier Corps elements are utilized in command
and control; training; and when necessary combat“.
Recommended by 33 Readers
Robert Mackey Lede Blogger October 15th, 2009 1:28 pm
Can you please send us links to your sources for these quotes? A quick
search for some of them only brings up other versions of this same
comment you have posted on other Web sites.
12 . Mark CA October 15th, 2009 1:28 pm
Indians are contributing in the instability of the region, by creating
trouble in Pakistan along the Afghan border. All those Mega consulates
in Kandahar and Jalalabad are only meant for executing subversive
activities in that region.
Recommended by 6 Readers
13 . Ashok USA October 15th, 2009 1:50 pm
While I have full sympathy with the innocents who are affected by this
spate of terror in Pakistan, I must add that it was long overdue.
Pakistani army and ISI have been actively engaged in training and
protecting many of the terror outfits to take revenge from India for
its defeat in 1971 war of Bangladesh when 93,000 pakistani army
surrendered to Indian army. Thanks to the support of Nixon, no one in
pakistani army was ever punished for the genocide of millions of East
Paksitanis (now Bangladeshis). Thanks to Bush, no one was punished for
nuclear prolifiration in Paksitan as A Q Khan was doing what Paksitani
army told him to do. As soon as USSR left Afghanistan in 1989,
Pakistania rmy let loose its trained jehadis in Kashmir and the wicked
game is still on. There are still training camps in Pakistan-Occupied
Kashmir and in Mudirke near Lahore. Pakistani amry and ISI treats
these terorists as GOOD terrorists (anti-india) not knowing that all
of the Islamic terrorists are connected by a principle called Ummah in
Holy Koran. There are still hundred of thousands madaris throughout
Pakistan where young boys get free EDUCATION in terror and they are
the one called Talibans or students after graduation. There is no curb
on them as yet. The Kerry-Lugar Bill which tried to curb militancy was
vehmently opposed by Pakistani army just last week because there was a
mention of Mudirke, the terro center of LET in the Bill. It is the
time that world/UNO must do something to defang the nuclear weapons of
Pakistan lest the terrorist capture will them sooner or later. If they
can attack army HQ, they can struck anywhere including nuclear
installations. They will not hesitate in using Pakistani WMD against
India, USA and Isreal, all democratic and plural countries. India had
been screaming about the cross-border terrorism spread by Paksitan
since 1989 while USA woke up only on 9/11/2001 when it got hurt on its
mainland.
Recommended by 36 Readers
14 . Unique Soul New York October 15th, 2009 1:51 pm
@ Mark- what kind of evidence you have? This is a serious forum; say
only credible words.
Recommended by 14 Readers
15 . Walter Dunedin, Florida October 15th, 2009 1:52 pm
I am sorry to see such violence in Pakistan but Pakistan harbored the
Taliban for so long hoping that the Taliban would forever leave them
alone and destabilize Afghanistan. Now Pakistan has a long campaign
ahead of it if it doesn't want to go back a few hundred years in time
to a world where singing, cucumbers (banned for inciting lust ) ,
music of all kinds, kite flying, etc. are all banned on penalty of
whipping.
Recommended by 12 Readers
16 . From the Bible, Galatians VI (King James Version) CA October
15th, 2009 1:52 pm
Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Recommended by 23 Readers
17 . @ NYC October 15th, 2009 1:52 pm
Frankenstein has finally turned on its Creator. How long before
Pakistan asks for more aid in the name of fighting these terrorists it
created, nurtured and harbored for decades? How can we be sure the
notorious Paki ISI and army aren't playing games for more handouts.
What a mess!
Recommended by 21 Readers
18 . Ashok USA October 15th, 2009 2:00 pm
#12 Mark, India is a democratic country and has contributed/comitted
almost $1.35 billion worth of aid in social sector projects like
electric power lines and station, communication, roads, hospitals,
parliament building and schools etc in Afghanistan since 2002. It
always had very coordial relations with Afghanistan except when under
Taliban for a short period. India is a home to more than 50,000
Afghani students and policeman under training for the making of a
country. Inida always had consulates with the permission of
Afghanistan, a soverign country to serve its population and interests
like any other country. Where is the evidence of any subversion
activity? Even US and NATO has recognised the contribution of Inida in
the building of Afghanistan nation. So please stop parrotting what
Paksitani army/ISI is telling the world. Paksitani army/ISI both are
jealous of Indian influence in Afghanistan because it prevents them
from abusing Afghanistan by creating what they call, Strategic Depth
to encounter India one day.
Recommended by 26 Readers
19 . Saad U. Khan Islamabad, Pakistan October 15th, 2009 2:23 pm
Pakistani leadership -- especially the military one -- is still
reluctant to grapple with the fact that Taliban have turned against
them. Simple and clear!
Recommended by 15 Readers
20 . Bugzy Potomac, MD October 15th, 2009 2:56 pm
I guess the million dollar question is: If the Taliban do end up
overturning the Pakistani govt and gain control, what is Plan B for
USA and India? Or is there none?
Recommended by 7 Readers
21 . Nick San Jose October 15th, 2009 3:27 pm
The fact that there are two "governments" in Pakistan makes this even
more miserable. The military thinks that it is not accountable to
anyone. I don't think it has ever cared who is in charge of the
civilian government. How can Pakistan expect to survive if there are
deep internal divisions like this? Also in spite of all that has
happened the military still sees India as enemy number 1 and feels
that the Taliban might still be of use and can be controlled. Someone
is making a lot of money by fomenting all this trouble. No patriotic
person would ever stoop to such depths.
Recommended by 4 Readers
22 . Unique Soul New York October 15th, 2009 3:27 pm
#20 Bugzy; you raised a great point about the PLAN B. I do however
wonder; is there really an option of letting them win?
Recommended by 2 Readers
23 . RKGS1 Daytona Beach, FL October 15th, 2009 3:32 pm
U.S. will keep up these drone attacks until they provoke a civil war
in Pakistan and the militants get their hands on nuclear weapons!
Recommended by 5 Readers
24 . Mathew Charles Urbana, Illinois October 15th, 2009 4:23 pm
Calling a spade wrote:
'Or perhaps it devours those who created it leaving the civilized
world to then wipe out all what remains in that country, its ideology
and deviousness and its culture.' The Holocaust wiped close to six
million Jews. Millions of innocent lives were ripped apart because
someone hated these people, their ideology and their culture.
Is it too much to draw a lesson or two from that sad chapter of the
recent past?
The luxury of anonymity that online forums afford us may tempt us to
rant all we want, but that does not warrant forgoing reason
altogether. The hatred you demonstrate through your words is chilling.
Since you claim to live in the US, surely you must be well versed in a
little history, and cognizant of the grave consequences of the sort of
action you are proposing.
Forty people died today in the reprehensible attacks across Pakistan,
And even if, as seems to be the case for some of us, it is impossible
to feel sorry for them, it would perhaps serve us well to remember
that waton spite against the country , and its people, is unbecoming
of a reasonable commentator.
Recommended by 7 Readers
25 . S. Ram Houston, TX October 15th, 2009 4:40 pm
While i sympathize with the innocent who have lost their lives, the
fact of the matter is Pakistan is the biggest sponsor of state
terrorism. Iran, Syria and Lybia are nothing compared to them. The
nexus of terrorism in the world is centered not in Kabul or Kandahar
but in Islamabad where the Pakistani goverment and ISI have been
sponsoring terrorism for years. Both middle and high ranking members
of the Pakistani military have backed the Taliban and terrorism in the
last 5-6 years and for 20 years they have attacked India while funding
and abetting the Taliban- the same people who are reaking havoc on
their doorstep. It seems the chickens have "come home to roost." If
the people of Pakistan want someone to blame take one look at your
leaders.
Recommended by 13 Readers
26.allen_osuno Northern California October 15th, 2009 4:40 pm
The U.S has been "confronting" Pakistani government officials for
years while continuing to hand these same officials billions in "aid"
which hasn't seemed to result in any upgrading of the civilian
government or its police or army. The aid has gone into the pockets of
corrupt people in the ISI, among others, and these have indeed acted
as the 'midwives' of the Taliban, doing phony 'sweeps' against the
Taliban while simultaneously paying them off to be the Pakistani
government's agent for meddling in Afghanistan and serving as a
breeding ground for international terrorism. Barack Obama should cease
the war in Afghanistan and immediately find a way to keep the Taliban
from procuring Pakistani nukes when the Taliban overthows the civilian
government and establishes a failed nuclear state. The latter is
coming soon, I wager. What will the world do if Al-Qaeda gets its
hands on Pakistani nukes through some deal with the Taliban warlords
who get these weapons? Does Europe want to be nuked? Does the U.S.? It
is a distinct possibility.
Recommended by 5 Readers
27.Indian_1978 Mumbai October 15th, 2009 5:05 pm
Pakistan is reaping what it has sowed, for decades their bombs and
bullets have killed thousands of people in India,orphaned so many
children, widowed so many women and destroyed so many families, they
are now paying for their own sins.
Recommended by 11 Readers
28.Ashok USA October 15th, 2009 5:34 pm
#24 Charles Mathew wrote:
"Since you claim to live in the US, surely you must be well versed in
a little history, and cognizant of the grave consequences of the sort
of action you are proposing."
History, similar to a miniholocast, is made in places other than
Europe also, for instance East Pakistan and Cambodia. The operation
started by the Pakisatni army on March 25, 1971 until November 1971
resulted in the death of millions of innocent Bengalis (then East
Pakistan) because (West) Pakistani hated Bangalis people, there
language and culture. Google it to find the answer. No one from the
Pakistani army was ever punished thanks to the tilt of Nixon towards
Yahya for letting him find a secret opening to Red China and Reagon
winked when Pakistan was indulging in making of Nuclear Bomb in 1980's
and later George Bush when Pakistan bartered nuclear technology with
North Korea in 1990's. Pakistan is the only nuclear country where
civilian government have no say in its nuclear button and India is the
only country whcih is surrounded from two sdies by two colluding
nuclear armed non-democratic governments of Pakistan and China. Both
have ruthlessly suppressed their people. Should we act now or wait
until the largest holocast happens on the planet when Pakistani WMD is
used against 1.1 billion population of India or they wipe out Isreal?
Recommended by 13 Readers
29.Dave Palo Alto October 15th, 2009 5:56 pm
People much more knowledgeable about the internal politics of Pakistan
have commented. My only observation is that if the West does not
confront Radical Islam now, it will be left with fewer choices in the
future. My sense is that the key to Afghanistan goes through the
Tribal Regions of Pakistan. These are were the Taliban and Al Qaeda
have their sanctuaries and were the Pakistani Army is either able or
unwilling to confront these people. As a result, the terrorists are
taking the fight directly into the heart of Pakistan. The Taliban and
Al Qaeda understand that the best defense is a good offense...
Recommended by 1 Reader
30.Sumanta India October 15th, 2009 5:56 pm
50% of Pakistanis believe these terrorists are holy warriors and
sympathise with them, in spite of the fact that they are creating
havoc in their own country. The other 50% believe these are hired
mercenaries paid by India, Israel, or America. How do you formulate a
response from the state if your population simply refuses to accept
the truth, are delusional, and blames conspiracies for everything,
without even acknowledging who the real enemy is. US intervention in
Afghanistan has little to do with this mindset. If US packs its bags
today, these guys will swarm Afghanistan tomorrow, providing safe
haven to Al Queda (who will plot attacks to USA), with active
patronage from Pak army and ISI. ISI will once again get back
unhindered to its goal of bleeding India to thousand pieces. We will
just replace the violence in Pakistan by violence in Afghanistan,
possibly in USA, and renewed violence in India. It's probably better
that the monster and its creator face off against each other, even
though I feel sorry for so many unsuspecting Pakistanies who die in
the process. But only then they (not the civilian leadership, but the
Pak army and ISI) may realize where lies the true fortune for their
people. Only then there is good for everybody, and that includes
Pakistanis themselves.
Recommended by 15 Readers
31.CallingASpade California October 15th, 2009 6:18 pm
Charles Mathew makes a fundamental error in extrapolating from my
previous comment to the Holocaust and the innocent lives ripped apart
during it. He'd do better in associating those victims whose lives and
livelihoods are being threatened yesterday and today with those whose
lives were ripped apart during the Holocaust. Instead of Jews then, we
have anyone that is not a Muslim today. Replace the Europe and Warsaw
of the Holocaust with the India, Mumbai, Kabul, Afghanistan, any of
the innumerable other countries and cities that have been visited upon
by those terrorists trained and supported by the Pakistani
establishment. And while you are at it, sure you might want to include
Lahore and those Pakistani cities as well. Realize however that they
are late additions since everyone else has suffered much already. And
instead of a Nazi ideology think of a Islamic "Caliphate" if you must
ideology where the bearded wreck havoc on anyone that doesn't agree
with them or give them their way (and this includes "their own kind"
in Pakistan, the many across the borders in Afghanistan and India (and
that includes Kashmir)) and far away as well.
It seems however that Charles would prefer to dine with those that
endorse, perpetrate, and support these militants that wreck havoc
today. Could he be suffering from the same disease that affected those
"accomodationists" of the 1930s and 1940s, leading to the losses of
those zillion lives he refers to? Would it not have been better to
recognize the perpetrators of today's ongoing Holocaust, where the
perpetrators are idealogues of the Islamic variety and they have
support from the Pakistani establishment, and take them on instead of
asking for understanding....?
As for the number dead: the forty that died today were Pakistani; they
died owing to a direct results of the policies endorsed and supported
by the Pakistani establishment; what do you want me to say or do? Cry
a river? Just so it is clear, the number of Pakistani victims of their
own homegrown terrorists pale in comparison to the lives of Indians
and non-Pakistanis who have suffered as a result of those very same
policies.
Recommended by 10 Readers
32.sullu nyc October 15th, 20096:18 pm
S.RAM IS Indiaan Hindu INDIA involvded in afganistan with the help or
RAW and using TALABANS to distablize Pakistan any paying them. most of
the arms catch captured is US make?? what u will say to this??
33.rational Washington October 15th, 2009 7:40 pm
If Pakistan's military and govt continue to face this kind of
pressure, I'm afraid they will find an excuse to start a war with
India. Nothing diverts a country's attention like war (as Bush knew
quite well) does. Pakistan has very little going for it, so a
prospering India will be a tempting target.
Recommended by 3 Readers
34.wilburgalli california October 15th, 2009 8:14 pm
Ashok. I wonder if you are the Ashok I met in New Mexico a few years
back? The Ashok that presented with great clarity the notion of an ego-
sphere that can be played like a Banjo to lead weak people into the
notion that death is a means of sending a "message" to whomever it is
that they imagine to be responsible for making them powerless? One of
the grievous errors the West has made in recant time was in not
identifying terrorists, and terror tactics, as the work of cowards.
The "Troubles" in Ireland are an example. The first terrorist that
killed innocent people and took "Responsibility" for it should have
been hunted down and killed or arrested and faced charges for
murder.Terrorists can only exist in a culture that supports them. The
real War here is internal. That requires a level of evolution on the
part of mankind in general that seems to be beyond us. Getting the
necessary energy into the lives of good people is the antidote. That
always seems to be the least priority. If you are The Ashok rest
assured that I respect you deeply. Maybe our inner world will prove to
be strong enough to win this one. I hope.
Recommended by 2 Readers
35.the skeptic new york city October 15th, 2009 8:25 pm
Well the chickens coming home to roost! But really this has the
earmarks of a CIA OP. The idea being that the ISI supports militant
attacks to kill Americans. The original idea of those militant groups
was to asymmetically oppose India which has a conventional military
which has the edge over the Pakistani army esp in Kashmir. So to
oppose this we now give intelligence to militants to kill Pakistanis
and force them to then confront both the militants and the madrassas
-- quite clever-- this assumes they were sitting on the fence about
Waziristan which in the past they have. This is how the game is
played. Of course you notice the ISI headquarters in not attacked --
not yet !!
All this would be no consquence to us if we covertly neutralize
pakistani nukes and fund schools in Pakistan that would be an
alternative to Madrassas. This would complement our asymetric warfare
with militants on the Pak/Afghani border.
This also brings up the fact that India and Pakistan must negotiate a
solution to Kashmir or each side will continue to play this game of
chess with the lives on soldiers and civilans at risk both there and
in the west. The same applies to Palestine. This is all connected. You
have to look at it as a giant game of strategy. I would put my money
on the US, not Pakistan. It is possible by the way to remotely disable
those nukes they have. You could use a microwave generated attack to
shut down all the poorly shielded electronics instead of an EMP. You
might even be able to do it without anyone noticing !!
If we support alternative schools then those schools will be attacked.
On the other hand we should also have a program to neutralize those
people in the ISI who are doing this as well as nuclear scientists who
cant keep it in their pants.
I just love chess. Too bad the people on each side of the board moving
the pieces cant suffer the fate of their pawns then each side would
have to settle their differences peacefully!
Recommended by 1 Reader
36.saip usa October 15th, 2009 8:25 pm
Problem with Pakistan is that they have a third rate army which cannot
win a war but can kill a few million unarmed civilians. They
slaughtered bangla deshis, balochis and sindhis. But when they are to
fight a real army they run.
The army is under tremendous pressure to eliminate taliban who are its
own creation. So to take the pressure off they created these
diversionary attacks on their own people. Now army will blame the
civilian govt for thses attacks and will overthrow the govt in yet
anothe coup. Yes that is another thing they excel in. Calling
pakistani army professional is an insult all armies of the world.
Recommended by 3 Readers
37.Nuz2Me Utah October 15th, 2009 8:34 pm
The pakistani population is conditioned to live in constant fear of
dangerous external entities that are allegedly out to destroy their
country. If not India, it is the United States or even Israel.
Conspiracy theories involving a foreign hand thrive in a country where
all of the various power centers have their own particular reason to
the feed this sense of doom amongst the largely illiterate populace.
The politicians do it to cover their incomptence, the military to
justify its huge role as well as its huge cost and the preachers do it
because of their intrensic distrust of non-islamic outsiders (kafirs
or infidels).
There are slick websites - obviously well sponsored - that have a
conspiracy theory de jour. I won't publicize them but the amount of
misinformation they dispense is mind boggling, to say the least.
Shortly after the most recent terror attack on the special police
force compound, no less a person than the police chief of Lahore - a
person who should be objectively investigating this incident -
proclaimed that the indian intellegence service was involved in all of
the recent attacks. The local press - including the urdu press no
doubt - picked up the story regardless of the fact that it had no
basis. This is how - one event at a time - a psyche of mistrust is
created and constantly reinforced. This is the reason why many of the
pakistani commentators on this discussion continue to believe that the
cause of their misfortune is some evil outside power.
The suicide bomber who killed so many just a few days ago in Peshawar
was a 13-year old boy. In a society where the educated elite can be
made swallow wild theories, what chance does a gullible kid have?
Recommended by 11 Readers
38.Saad Khan Baltimore October 15th, 2009 8:34 pm
In 6th grade (in Pakistan), we read this poem. Makes wonderful sense
now in the context of what is going on in Pakistan.
The Abbot of Aberbrothok [i.e. Arbroath]
Had placed that bell on the Inchcape Rock;
On a buoy in the storm it floated and swung,
And over the waves its warning rung.
When the Rock was hid by the surge’s swell,
The Mariners heard the warning Bell;
And then they knew the perilous Rock,
And blest the Abbot of Aberbrothok
Sir Ralph the Rover tore his hair,
He curst himself in his despair;
The waves rush in on every side,
The ship is sinking beneath the tide.
But even in his dying fear,
One dreadful sound could the Rover hear;
A sound as if with the Inchcape Bell,
The Devil below was ringing his knell.
Recommended by 4 Readers
39.Bob Sunnyvale, CA October 15th, 2009 8:43 pm
It does make one wonder how much longer Pakistan can fool itself into
thinking its embrace with anti-India para-milarism is in it's best
interest? How much more fertilizer needs to hit their fan?
The time for the people of Pakistan to decide if they want to be part
of civilized society or not is rapidly coming to a close. How much
more proof do they need that they have a cancer among them that needs
to be dealt with in some final way?
How much longer can we hold out a hand (and money) in hope for them to
help themselves?
Recommended by 6 Readers
40.LetsBfair USA New York October 15th, 2009 8:43 pm
Thank you former presidents Clinton and Bush for allowing Pakistan to
be a nuclear weapons powerhouse with between 80-100 warheads (now
dispersed in 9 "secret" locations for security purposes). Perhaps if
Clinton had spent less time with Monica and Bush less time with
Saddam, Pakistan would not be the one unstable and precarious Moslem
nation that actually does have nuclear weapons that may fall into the
hands of either terrorists and/or people who hate America and
Americans. We attacked and invaded Iraq on the theory they might have
WMDs, but didn't lift a finger when our government discovered that
Pakistan had an A bomb (like one or two). Now regarding Iran, where we
know they have 11 nuclear sites and intermediate range nuclear capable
ballistic missiles, plus the newly discovered secret nuclear facility
buried in the mountain, all we do is talk, talk and talk. We can't
even get the Russians or Chinese or agree to more sanctions. So are we
again going to wait until the Islamic Republic actually explodes a
nuclear weapon before we act to stop this one?
Given that the Taliban in Pakistan has taken over the Pakistani
equivalent to the Pentagon and just attacked the Pakistani police
headquarters, it is not terribly reassuring to hear that the Pakistani
nuclear arsenal is being protected by Pakistani military forces.
Perhaps the Indians, or the US Army and Marines would do a better
job.
Recommended by 5 Readers
41.Hari Prasad Alexandria, VA.October 15th, 2009 9:55 pm
Poor people, more and more in Pakistan, and earlier in Mumbai and
other places in India as well as elsewhere that the terrorists have
struck. The politics of religious identity combined with the weapons,
organization, and communications of today have led to the franchising
of murder. If only the fuel of "holy war" were removed - but how long
will that take? Probably much longer than it took to detoxify (more or
less) Europe from Nazi and Fascist ideology, and Japan from "Nippon
kotoku". Both of those led to at least a hundred million deaths - a
lot of them of innocent non-combatants.
Meanwhile, what's coming down the road, for India as well as the rest
of the world, is not very pleasant if the haven of "terrorism for
export" nurtured over the years in Pakistan spreads to take over the
country or an even larger part of it. Will the current government,
pushed against Western pressures by its own people and army, hold the
line very long? Or will Pakistani authorities reach another modus
vivendi with the jihadists, under whatever terms it is cast?
The witches' cauldron keeps boiling and the land of the pure
(Pakistan) increasingly smells of death.
Recommended by 2 Readers
42.melpol New York, N.Y. October 15th, 2009 9:55 pm
With no possible unity between angry factions, there will be perpetual
violence in Pakistan. Nothing is secure even the nuclear bombs. It
would not be surprising if one of those bombs were set off in a
suicide bombing killing thousands. U.S. special forces should disable
the bombs immediately.
Recommended by 4 Readers
43.John G. Margolis Doral, FL October 15th, 2009 9:55 pm
What I find so disturbing from the news is that Pakistan seems to
spiraling ever so slowly out of control such that the omnipresent 'bad
guys' will together find a way to liberate all of Pakistan's nuclear
arsenal and use it to further their goals. This cannot and must not
happen.
Recommended by 3 Readers
44.Scottsdale Jack Scottsdale, AZ October 15th, 2009 10:01 pm
Hmmm, let's see, the US government supported a dictator (Musharref)
for years while he lost popular support. Now the Islamists are on the
rise threatening to take over the country. Where have we seen this
movie before? Answer: Iran, and our ill-fated support of the Shah.
Meanwhile chickenhawks like Bush and Cheney wasted time and blood on
an easy target (post-Gulf War Iraq) instead of dealing with where the
real problems are: Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
Recommended by 5 Readers
45.Donald Surr Pennsylvania October 15th, 2009 10:41 pm
This is a Pakistani problem that will only be solved locally if at
all. U.S. involvement can only serve to increase local resentment
against that intrusion and make matters worse. We must, despite
decades of being conditioned to think otherwise, learn to mind our own
business and tend to our own many domestic needs.
46.Dan Stackhouse New York City October 15th, 2009 10:51 pm
My prognosis is that this alliance of Taliban and various terrorists
will be sufficient to destabilize Pakistan. The Pakistani government
is weak, divided, and aiding these terrorists both by being
incompetent and by treasonous support. The terrorists on the other
hand are getting more effective and united, and the combination of
these trends spells doom for the government.
I'm afraid what it would take at this point to squash the Taliban
types is a military onslaught, a merciless slaughter of all the long-
bearded psychotic marauders. Pakistan lacks the strength of will to do
this, so does the U.S.A., but my hope is that when the government
finally crumbles and the nuclear warheads fall into terrorist hands,
the pragmatic governments of China, India, and Russia will do the
right thing, and annhilate these islamofascists.
Harsh, I know, but the terrorists cannot be reasoned with or pacified.
They yearn to die for their demented holy war, and someone should
oblige them en masse.
Recommended by 7 Readers
47.xiao wang Md October 15th, 20091 1:13 pm
Hypothetical question:
Pakistan falls to the Taliban/ Al Qaida. Now they have an atomic bomb.
Iran continues to stall. Finally, one day, they have an atomic bomb.
Then what? Improbable? America, Europe, what are you prepared to do to
make sure this doesn't happen? Otherwise, the improbable becomes more
and more probable.
Recommended by 3 Readers
48.Mausam Kalita Manhattan, KS October 16th, 2009 3:21 am
There is already open fracas between Pakistani military and
administration over the aid bill. Pakistan never adopted any economic
policy to uplift its people. Its only agenda is to destroy India since
1947 and this aid is a golden opportunity. It wont be used for
economic, intellectual development of its people but to indoctrinate
toxicity in young minds who in turn will seek to attack on so called
infidels (Indians, Israelis, Americans and so on). So, the aid is
going to haunt back. It is needed to be understood that Frankenstein
foreign policy never works.
Recommended by 6 Readers
49.kit ramsey belmont heights October 16th, 2009 11:00 am
fight them now or fight them later. now- tens of thousands of
casualties from asymmetrical warfare later- millions of casualties
from nuclear warfare president obama must decide, there is no voting
"present" allowed.
Recommended by 1 Reader
50.bostonwala boston October 16th, 2009 11:00 am
Paksitan's army is getting the "return" of their investment with
"interest". Sure life is normal in pakistan. Being blown away is the
new norm. If hunger or poverty does not kill you these terrorist or
MQM thugs will.
Recommended by 2 Readers
51.FS New York October 16th, 2009 2:01 pm
@ Sumanta: where are you quoting these numbers from? All Islamist
parties were hugely defeated in the last elections so please no one
supports this kind of BS terrorism in Pakistan regardless of if its
carried out in Pakistan, Afghanistan or India. For some to suggest ISI
is carrying out these attacks is even more stupendous. A Pakistani
citizen is seeking the same as any other in this world: food,
education, and a peaceful life.
Recommended by 1 Reader
52.S.Khalid Husain Karachi, Pakistan October 16th, 2009 2:04 pm
Pakistan will overcome. The terrorists plaguing Pakistan are the
creation of the US to oust the Soviets from Afghanistan and bring down
the Soviet empire, they are creations of Indi'a state terrorim in
Kashmir where it holds in forced subjugation the Kasmiris who want to
be out of India's clutches.
The Indians may be crowing at Pakistan's difficulties to which they
have contributed not a little, and the US worrying. But let them
understand Pakistan will overcome.
India should be worrying where its strangehold on Kashmir is leading
it to, where will it end.Hopefully it will end in peaceful and just
resolution of the dispute in best interest of the people of Kashmir.
It is in India's too interest that it ends so.
53.Harry Hawaii October 16th, 2009 2:04 pm
Pakistani people who for years have supported or turned blind eyes to
their government's and military's hateful "Jihad" against non-
believers, including Americans (Christians) and Indians (Hindus), are
reaping what they sowed for all these years.
The Jihad and terrorist problem can only be solved in Pakistan if its
government denounces its islamophobia and after each attack widely
publicizes the number of MUSLIMS, not just military people or
civilians, that were killed by the terrorists. Then and then only the
people there will get it and the cycle of hatred in Pakistan will be
broken.
54.JAC CA October 16th, 2009 2:04 pm
Sooo ... cheney and rumsfeld let OBL escape in Tora Bora and hide in
Pakistan which leaves them clear to invade Iraq to search for non-
existent WMD.
Then cheney/bush give Musharraf Billion$ of Dollar$ to keep OBL
cornered in Pakistan so as not to attack U.S. troops in Iraq, well
that worked out well don't you think Ollie?
55.manohar kaul mumbai india October 16th, 2009 2:04 pm
This is what Pakistan has been doing all these years nurturing
militants training them & sending them to other countries to create
terror.Now it seems both Pakistan & ISI has lost control over
militants.As you bow so shall you reap.This is the right time for
Pakistan & its friends to act ,to act with determination or otherwise
Pakistan shall be wiped from the world map.America should also know
that aiding Pakistan should be for right purpose & the aid given is
not misused against India as has happened in past
56.joseph mac anthony toronto, Canada October 16th, 2009 2:05 pm
Once again, the American military's obsession with tactics overrides
strategic assessment. They worry that this fresh cluster of Taliban
attacks on the Pakistani Army is mistakenly as the start of a drive to
overthrow the state.
Let us look at the overall situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan
first, and with a clear eye.
The re-election of the Kabul government, flawed as it was, reaffirms
its authority is a blow to theTaliban. That can be seen from the
effort they put into trying to stop that happening. The U.S. is
committed to sending in more troops, and from General McCrystal's
assessment, a lot more money. There has been some success in buying
off various warlords. Adding more funds to that drive, together with
cash on the ground for social development, is bound to increase the
pressure.
If you were leading the Taliban campaign, what would your reaction be
to this darkening scenario?
The obvious one, followed from Alexander to Ho Chi Minh. You divert
the enemy by creating a second front.
The proof that this is a diversion lies in the minute scale of the
attacks on the Pakistani Army. And on the unpleasant consequences for
the local Taliban should they raise their level. were they to increase
their intensity. The outcome, far from bringing about a collapse of
the state, will more likely create a military regime far more friendly
to the United States, and one likely to respond with a good deal more
zeal against the Taliban enemy in provinces like Waziristan.
This fresh throw of the dice by the Taliban should not be viewed with
the alarm now engendered. Rather, it offers a useful insight into the
thinking of their leaders. Flexibility in an enemy may be a worry on
the battlefield. Transferred to the political arena, that type of
leadership is historically inclined towards making a deal.
Insurgent wars are replete with villains who become friends. The key
here is not to bomb into submission. Nor to flood the country with
uniformed targets that give the lowliest peasant or unemployed
teenager an opportunity to become a hero.
It is to exploit the cracks in the leadership, dampen PR on the home
front. And bide your time.. .
This second front, far from being a source of alarm .
on the groundre are U.S. Taliban.
57.James F Traynor Punta Gorda October 16th, 2009 2:06 pm
It seems that significant elements of the Pakistani army have been, at
least, appeasing the Taliban, considering them an asset against what
they claim to be Indian attempts at covert aggression against
Pakistan. Sounds like the Great Game of the 19th century, only now
it's India and Pakistan instead of Britain and Russia fighting over
the bone.
Now there are allegations that Italian and possibly French troops have
had gentlemen 's agreements with the Taliban to avoid armed conflict
in the latter's area of occupation in Afghanistan. All of this would
be laughable were it not for the existence of ready to go nuclear
weapons in the control of the Pakistani army. And we're in the middle
of the mess. I'm beginning to think that McCrystal's strategy is the
best of poor alternatives; the Taliban have to be taken out.
58.HAIDER ALI NEW YORK October 16th, 2009 2:06 pm
I don't know what the hell Pakistani government is doing. It's like
the Roman empire, the country is burning, the innocent people are
losing their lives and the Pakistani politicians are playing the
musical chair game. As it turned out that the Pakistani politicians
are not only corrupts, but also cowards and incompetent to rule the
country. We never came across this kind of situation during the
Pervaiz Musharraf's era. If the present government can not control the
new terrorist's onslaught, they should call back Pervaiz Musharraf to
handle it.
Fighting with the terrorists is not a 9 to 5 job, you need to open
your eyes 24 hours a day and they can come like the ants and you got
to to get rid of them again and again.
The Pakistani Government is supposed to declare the emergency and curb
the press and medias which are encouraging the terrorists and want to
disintegrate Pakistan.
Recommended by 1 Reader
59.Das NY October 16th, 2009 2:06 pm
I always knew the "Law of Karma" will one day catch up with Pakistan
for its nurturing and letting loose of blood-thirsty terrorists on
Innocents. Never did I think I will see it happen now, this is an age
of retribution - No one can escape from the 'seeds they sow'.
Even as an Indian I am proud to say that I pray for those Innocent
Pakistanis cought between the terror masters and their foot-soldiers.
60.melpol New York, N.Y.October 16th, 2009 2:06 pm
It has been proven that security forces in Pakistan have been deeply
infiltrated. There is no reason why a nuclear bomb cannot be set off
by a dissident killing thousands of civilians. U.S. brigades should be
immediately dispatched to disable those bombs. There is not a moment
to waste.
61.Madigan New York October 16th, 2009 2:08 pm
Do not allow Zardari to create a "Kingdom" in Pakistan by getting his
idiot son to succeed him eventually. The best thing that can happen in
Pakistan is to redistribute land ownership, presently under the
Bhuttus and the Shariefs, and give it to the people of Pakistan. These
corrupt Zardari and the corrupt Sheriefs must not control the fate of
Pakistan and its people. Do not allow anyone to own more than 100-
acres of land. This must be done a.s.a.p.
62.M. D. Kruger Delaware County, N.Y.October 16th, 2009 2:08 pm
This is just the tinder for a conflagration that will overtake South
Asia. I would not doubt for a minute that the government of Pakistan
will fall within a year, either from the Taliban or from an army coup,
and the destabilization will continue at a ferocious pace until India
can take it no longer. Nuclear war will toast much of South Asia
before 2012.
63.joe NY October 16th, 2009 2:09 pm
There is one, big lie in the front page article. Following the attacks
on Sept. 11th, Pakistan never joined the United States in the campaign
against terrorism. Unless one is ready to admit that the "campaign
against terrorism" was nothing more than a front, an excuse for never-
ending war. The biggest thing Pakistan did was provide a safe haven
for terrorists. How is that joining some kind of campaign? They have
harbored public enemy #1, Osama Bin Laden, for over 8 years. Maybe
that's why we have given them so many billions in aid during that
time. Because they promised to be ineffectual in tracking him down and
helping to capture him.
Look, Bush and Cheney, for all their false bravado, were terrified of
Pakistan, terrified of the explosive conflict that might occur if they
went in to get Bin Laden. Terrified that Bin Laden's death would mean
the end of their fancy little war on terror, which they knew was so
useful for domestic political and financial purposes.
Pity Obama, with the mess he inherited, but America's military
involvement in this region has been full of lies and is a disaster. He
must begin to tell and face the truth about that.
Recommended by 2 Readers
64.s budiavar NewYork October 16th, 2009 2:10 pm
Hi! This is bound to happen.The militants were bred and fed by the US
taxpayers money in $ billions as federal grants,aids and donation and
the funds were quitely siphoned off to the militants for both training
and arming to fight the Indian menace which was and is non-existent.
After killing fifty thousands or more innocents , both private
citizens and government servants in J&K, uprooting and annihilating
thousands of Kashmiri pandits- the natural and real citizens of
Kashmir and later getting into a proxy war with Indian authorities for
a stupid reason the Pakistan government has now to bear the burden and
brunt of this assault. They, the militants have come home to
roost.None of the military dictators ever dreamnt about this nor the
politicians who played footsie with the guys in the army fatigues.The
nuclear episode, less said the better.It is not yet clear as to how
they could go in for 'bomb' manufacturing without an iota of doubt or
irresponsibility of the United States intelligence. Uncle Sam will
find it real difficult when the phobia of the bomb descends really. To
tame India, Kissinger-kissed the Chinese thru the Pakistanis and now
find themselves (US) isolated. They (Pak) military want all the aids
and funds without any strings attached despite billions being funelled
from the drug trade.Afghanistan - an outpost for Pakistan was meant
for nurturing terrorists to fight for a global muslim world unawares
that the world was watching and tracking them.The nuclear Walmart of
AQ Khan was just a front to keep fellow Islamic countries happy and
beg for funds from the royal family of the Saud. N.Korea and China
were fairweather friends for updating delivery vehicles and to some
extent the Chinese attuning the nuclear arsenals which was anyway
advantageous to China in many ways to checkmate India.The only hope
now is that the US has to tell Pakistan in no uncertain terms that
either they take aid under the ammended KL accord or go to hell. As
for the extremists attacking Pakistan within, they have to handle it
themselves and the US can only give bench advice. If Pakistan really
wants to be a honorable member of the world community they have to
first invite the Americans and IAEA reps and rip all their nuclear
arms and go in for nuclear energy instead. Cede all the territory back
to the Kashmiris and forthwith stop defence production and amassing
defence equipment against India and everyone will see the 'sea change'
in South Asia. It is in everybodys interest to isolate the Chinese who
are going to make US their target otherwise tell us why does China
want to arm itself to the teeth and plan for ICBMs as far as the
United States where there are millions of Chinese prospering much
better than back home. Let India tackle the Chinese angle and leave
the US to look after the worldly affairs. The chinese are Unfit to be
in the SC as a permanent member and if population was a criteria than
India shall also have the same weightage. Anyway the world will
shudder when it dawns the Chinese not only play Chinese checkers but
also the Russian roulettes.
65.HJSV Scottsdale, Arizona October 16th, 2009 2:10 pm
Our leaders believe that somehow, if we bring democracy to
Afghanistan, everything would work itself out. 70% of Afghans cannot
even read. How do you have a functioning democracy when 70% of the
people cannot read? The generals think that 40,000 more troops will
somehow solve the problem. 400,000 troops would not solve the problem.
Those mountains and valleys shallow up divisions like a lake swallows
up a raindrop. Those people will not be tamed by the barrel of a gun.
They chewed up British. They chewed up the Russians. Right now, they
are chewing us up. This thing has to be solved politically. We need to
withdraw our troops to where the Northern Alliance maintains their
battle lines and try to solve this thing one tribe at a time.
66.citizen 625 Bigfork, MT October 16th, 2009 2:11 pm
Perhaps it is high time for the people of Pakistan to save themselves.
If these are the neighbors and institutions you have fostered, you
would do well to rethink your choices.
In a country of ~160 million people, how much are these terror attacks
being overrated? Terrorists are masters at herding the sheep-like
citizens to spend billions on security from the big bad wolf. Instead
the terrorists bend the civilian population with paranoia and further
concentrate power and control in the hands of their stated enemies,
the government.
I prefer my tax dollars go toward health care reform and not toward
Pakistan.
67.onlein Dakota October 16th, 2009 2:11 pm
I guess we better invade every country on earth and turn them all into
freedom-loving democracies. Then there will be no more trouble makers.
Can't we see the limits and the folly of our foreign presence in other
countries -- and how we are seen by them as trouble makers?
68.Guy Thompto Cedarburg, WI October 16th, 2009 2:11 pm
Based upon the comments to this story it appears that hatred in this
part of the world is truly deep-seated. Rather than focusing on the
Taliban or Al Qaeda, the readers can only comment on their resentments
and anger at India or Pakistan governments. Totally lost is the true
threat - the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
Pakistan does appear to be readying itself for an assault on both of
these organizations. Yes, Pakistan has funded the Taliban and shares
no great love for India. But to allow the focus to become an India-
Pakistan contest and then not focus on the Taliban and to a lesser
extent Al Qaeda would be a terrible long-term disaster for India,
Pakistan and and the free world.
69.Ethical Democracy New York City October 16th, 2009 2:12 pm
IAEA and Pak Terror
What is the role of the IAEA in protecting Pakistan's nuclear arsenal
from being captured by terror groups? I haven't studied IAEA full
mandate, given this horrific possibility.
If terrorists, acting unitedly, can storm and take over Pak's Army
Headquarters, then we know there is a danger of this occurring,
particularly in the context of recent news reports that Pak soldiers
are joining the Pakistan Taliban.
P's civil government should be given every support by IAEA to prevent
and pre-empt such a catastrophe.
Recommended by 1 Reader
70.krescera Hyderabad,India October 16th, 2009 2:14 pm
Getting rid of General Musharraf was a colossal bllunder by those in
the Western countries who ignored the internal dynamics of Pakistan
and demanded,what they called,restoration of democracy.What we are
witnessing now is perhaps a monumental instance of unintened
consequences.
71.Dave D.Wisconsin October 16th, 2009 2:14 pm
Sorry to disabuse
commenters of their dreams of blaming Pakistan for current woes. The
US has meddled in Pakistan for decades.
The US drove Al Qaeda out of Afghanistan (instead of destroying it in
situ) into Pakistan. We smashed the government of Afghanistan because
we could, and drove the Taliban east into Pakistan. A strengthened
Taliban now dominate the fate of Afghanistan - and possibly Pakistan
as well.
An earlier commenter mentioned chickens roosting soon, but they're our
birds, and we've been building their coops for years at taxpayer
expense. As long as we follow a militarized foreign policy we'll be
dining on the world's most expensive eggs.
Recommended by 1 Reader
72.david wayne osedach sandiego October 16th, 2009 2:14 pm
The Taliban has attacked the police, the military, and the government.
Is an attack on a nuclear site next?
73.jatapata77 Indianapolis,IN October 16th, 2009 2:15 pm
It is only the other day the experts were advising Obama to sit the
"good Taliban " at the table.This reveals the abysmal ignorance of
Washington,which does not seem to have a clue about what has been
going on in that regionThey thought they could save
Afghanistan.Now,they are on the brink of losing Pakistan too with its
nuclear weapons.
74.Vivek Thuppil Davis, CA October 16th, 2009 2:16 pm
Looks like the Pakistanis have realized that the monster they created
is no longer in their control. But the architect of these latest
bombings, the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, has openly said that if Pakistan
stops its operations in the tribal areas, they'll leave Pakistan alone
and go after India. So my question is, is the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi saying
in public what the Pakistani Army and civilian government desperately
want to say but can't because that means no more billions of dollars
in goodies from Uncle Sam?
The Pakistanis are reaping what they've sowed. I can't say I feel
especially sorry for them.
75.Ansar NJ October 16th, 2009 2:16 pm
I believe, the terrorist are just becoming so desperate that they will
bomb and commit heinous acts very often till they run out of
everything They know their end is near which makes them so desperate.
This is simply a sign of desperation.
Seems like all the governments in the world are Saints besides
Pakistan. No doubt the Pakistani gov is all screwed up to a great
extent, but why do we always forget to look into ourselves as well.
Did we forget our involvement about the Shah from Iran? Did we forget
about the Panama gov fall down?
Oh yeah, if I remember it correctly, it was ISI who was torturing
these terrorists all over there cells in Germany, Thailand etc. I am
sure it wasn't CIA?
Torture, what a terrible act? These terrorist should be executed
Chinese / Saudi style rather then being tortured.
And yeah how could we forget the great state of Israel and the
unprecedented support it gets from US. I am not sure where there is
the need of United Nations when every time a resolution takes place
condemning Israel's atrocities, nothing goes further than that.
Therefore, everyone is sweet and nice, but Pakistan. Long live rest of
the world but no Pakistan?
bademiyansubhanallah
October 16, 2009 , 7:06 pm
Held by the Taliban
By The New York Times
Tomas Munita for The New York Times
David Rohde of The New York Times in the Helmand region of Afghanistan
in 2007.
On Saturday, The Times will begin a series of articles and video,
running through Thursday, that offer a first-person account by David
Rohde of his seven months as a captive of the Taliban in Pakistan. Mr.
Rohde, a New York Times reporter, was kidnapped with an Afghan
journalist, Tahir Luddin, and their driver, Asad Mangal, on Nov. 10,
2008, as they traveled to an interview with a Taliban commander
outside Kabul, Afghanistan.
The reports are based on Mr. Rohde’s recollections and, where
possible, records kept by his family and colleagues. For safety
reasons, certain names and details will be withheld.
An excerpt from the first article:
I felt the car swerve to the right and stop. Two gunmen ran toward our
car shouting commands in Pashto, the local language. The gunmen opened
both front doors and order Tahir and Asad to move to the back seat.
Tahir shouted at the men in Pashto as the car sped down the road. I
recognized the words “journalists” and “Abu Tayyeb” and nothing else.
The man in the front passenger seat shouted something back and waved
his gun menacingly. He was small, with dark hair and a short beard. He
seemed nervous and belligerent.
bademiyansubhanallah
Pakistan sets its sights on Taliban sanctuary
By KATHY GANNON, Associated Press Writer Kathy Gannon, Associated
Press Writer – 37 mins ago
ISLAMABAD – The Pakistani military is setting its sights on the
Taliban's remote sanctuary after nearly two weeks of big bombings
across the country, as hundreds flee the Afghan border region each day
before what promises to be the army's riskiest offensive yet.
With the first snows of winter less than two months away, the army has
limited time to mount a major ground attack. The U.S. is racing to
send in night vision goggles and other equipment. The Pakistani
military insists it's sealing off supply and escape routes, forcing
the militants to rely on goat paths.
The army has tried three times since 2001 to dislodge Taliban fighters
from their stronghold in South Waziristan, part of the lawless tribal
area along the border. All three previous attempts ended in negotiated
truces that left the Taliban in control.
This time, however, military spokesman Gen. Athar Abbas said there
will be no negotiations for fear any deals would be seen as a failure
and could jeopardize gains won last spring when Pakistani soldiers
wrested control of the Swat Valley, elsewhere in the northwest.
"If we fail, everything is rolled back," Abbas said.
Failure would also deal a humiliating blow to government security
forces. A series of assaults against government installations,
including the army's general headquarters, has shown the Taliban along
the mountainous border and their allies in the heart of the country
are bolstering an alliance capable of challenging the Pakistani state.
The U.S. says the results of the South Waziristan campaign will also
help determine the success of the faltering American war effort in
Afghanistan. Militants use the Waziristan region as a base from which
to launch attacks across the border — and beyond.
"This region is at the heart of the struggle against al-Qaida, the
Taliban, and other global jihadi movements. It is a lawless sanctuary
for extremists and would-be militants of every shape, size, and
color," said Evan Kohlmann, whose U.S.-based NEFA Foundation follows
terrorist groups.
"It is perhaps the only place on earth where a mujahedeen commander
from Uzbekistan can plausibly establish a hardened base of operations,
staffed primarily by like-minded fighters of Turkish, Chinese, Danish,
and German extraction," Kohlmann said. "Most of the jihad training
camps frequented by foreign nationals and featured in al-Qaida and
Taliban terror propaganda videos are located in either North or South
Waziristan."
Foreigners require special permission to enter tribal areas. Many
Pakistani journalists from other parts of the country are at risk in
areas controlled by militants.
Abbas said the assault will be limited to slain Taliban leader
Baitullah Mehsud's holdings — a swath of territory that stretches
roughly 3,310 kilometers (1,275 square miles). That portion covers
about half of South Waziristan, which itself is slightly larger than
Delaware.
The plan is to capture and hold the area where Abbas estimates 10,000
insurgents are headquartered and reinforced with about 1,500 foreign
fighters, most of them of Central Asian origin.
"There are Arabs, but the Arabs are basically in the leadership,
providing resources and expertise and in the role of trainers," he
said in an interview from the heavily fortified garrison town of
Rawalpindi, where last weekend insurgents mounted an assault against
army headquarters.
The army is preparing for the array of guerrilla tactics the Taliban
are likely to employ, including ambushes, suicide attacks and
improvised explosive devises.
"We are shaping the environment, isolating the target. We are blocking
all entry and exit points, denying them availability of provisions,
fuel and ammunition, forcing them to rely on goat tracks to resupply,"
Abbas said.
Despite sometimes rocky relations with the Pakistani military, the
U.S. is trying to rush in equipment that would help with mobility,
night fighting and precision bombing, a U.S. Embassy official told The
Associated Press.
"If we could deliver things tomorrow, it would be here," said the
official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the issue is
politically sensitive.
In addition to night vision devices, the Pakistan military has said it
is seeking additional Cobra helicopter gunships, heliborne lift
capability, laser-guided munitions and intelligence equipment to
monitor cell and satellite telephones.
While Abbas was evasive about the timing of the offensive, he told the
AP that it will begin with a ground assault against insurgent
positions before winter snows block mountain roads.
"We have to come in before the snow," Abbas said. "It will start in
the form of a conventional operation to push them out and regain
space."
Once the offensive has started, a harsh winter and heavy snows can
work to the army's advantage by driving fighters out of their unheated
mountain hideouts, he said.
In no mood to wait, truckloads of families are fleeing their homes.
Amnesty International said Friday that its research teams in the area
report 90,000 to 150,000 residents have fled South Waziristan since
July, when the military began a long-range artillery and aerial
bombardment in the region. The group faulted the government for
failing to prepare adequate refugee camps.
Although the military has been hitting targets in South Waziristan for
the past three months, it waited until two weeks ago to say it would
definitely go ahead with a major ground offensive into the region.
What followed was a rash of major bombings that killed 175 people and
demonstrated the militants' ability to attack cities across the
county.
In the latest bombing, three suicide attackers, including a woman,
struck a police station in the northwestern city of Peshawar on
Friday, killing 13 people.
In cities rattled by the recent bombings, residents condemn insurgents
while bemoaning what they see as a weak government unable to end the
terror.
"Our inherent weaknesses, corruption, and inability to govern the
country are now exposed fully. It's total chaos all over the country,"
said Saima Ahmed, a 33-year-old bank employee in the southern city of
Karachi. "The government should ... come down heavily on the
terrorists for once and for all."
bademiyansubhanallah
Will Taliban attacks in Pakistan sway Obama's war decision?
The spate of attacks by the Taliban in Pakistan is likely to factor
into President Obama's ongoing review of Afghanistan policy. The
attacks highlight the regional nature of the Taliban insurgency.
By Howard LaFranchi | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
from the October 17, 2009 edition
Washington - The recent spate of terrorist bombings in Pakistan is
likely to figure in President Obama's ongoing review of Afghanistan
policy with top advisers next week.
Discussion of the violence in Pakistan will underscore the
interconnected nature of the challenges the US faces in Afghanistan
and Pakistan, say South Asia analysts who have advised the
administration on its policies.
A suicide bomber in Peshawar killed 12 people outside a police office
Friday, the latest in a string of militant attacks that have taken
more than 150 lives. On Sunday, militants even attacked the Pakistan
Army headquarters in Rawalpindi.
The bombings – seen by many observers as the work of the Pakistani
Taliban hoping to forestall a rumored Pakistani military offensive
into South Waziristan – aren't likely to be a game-changer in the
president's review. But they could bolster established positions in
the White House debate, analysts say.
Still, a bigger factor in the president's decision will be the outcome
of Afghanistan's presidential election, which appeared headed to a
runoff vote but which could still be settled by a power-sharing deal
for a coalition government. Resolution of the election, expected as
early as this weekend, has been one factor holding up Obama's decision
on what strategy to pursue in Afghanistan.
"The most important initial need is to fix the Afghan elections," says
Bruce Riedel, a South Asia expert at the Brookings Institution in
Washington who advised Mr. Obama on Afghanistan last spring. "If there
is a second round, it has to be a second round not marred by fraud and
corruption like the first one."
The outcome of the elections is important, experts agree, because the
success of the US and international effort in Afghanistan depends on
the quality of the local "partner" – the Afghan government – and its
ability to progressively take over the security operations.
Widespread perceptions of corruption in President Hamid Karzai's
government thus bolster the arguments of those, like Vice-President
Biden, who say the conditions don't exist for a counterinsurgency
strategy to succeed.
But Pakistan is also a critical part of the administration's
deliberations, Mr. Riedel says, with this week's targeting of the
Pakistani military only augmenting nervousness over the future US
direction in Afghanistan.
Riedel favors bolstering the counterinsurgency strategy in
Afghanistan, which would require a significant additional commitment
of US troops. That course would reassure the Pakistani military and
government, too, he says.
"More than ever, the Pakistani Army seems ready to take on these
[violent extremist] elements," he says. But "how we act in Afghanistan
is going to send a powerful message to the Pakistani" military and
government, he adds.
"If they have the impression we are going to … run again [as in the
1990's], they are going to change course and make accommodations with
the Taliban they face."
Others such as Mr. Biden say Pakistan should be the focus of a
counterterrorist strategy that eschews higher troop levels in
Afghanistan in favor of more surgical air strikes against terrorist
targets in Pakistan.
In their view, the bombings in Pakistan underline the importance of
targeting terrorist bases rather than fighting over territory in
Afghanistan. "The Al Qaeda threat is not to be equated with control of
a particular piece of real estate," says Paul Pillar, a former deputy
director of the CIA's counterterrorism center who is now at Georgetown
University in Washington.
According to Mr. Pillar, who participated in a Brookings event on
Afghanistan Friday, Afghanistan's place in determining what happens in
Pakistan has been largely overstated. "The course of events in
Pakistan," he says, "will depend mostly on what happens in Pakistan."
chhotemianinshallah
Pakistan hits Taliban, Al Qaeda strongholds
Ground troops attack militant positions in South Waziristan, a
response to a wave of violence that extremists launched in the past
two weeks.
Pakistani troops prepare to leave for patrolling in Bannu, a town on
the edge of Waziristan. (Ijaz Muhammad, Associated Press / October 17,
2009)
By Alex Rodriguez
Los Angeles Times
October 17, 2009 | 2:33 a.m.
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistani troops launched a long-awaited ground
offensive into the Taliban and Al Qaeda stronghold of South Waziristan
today, beginning what experts say will be the country's most
challenging chapter yet in the ongoing war on terror.
Tariq Hayat Khan, secretary of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas
where South Waziristan is located, confirmed that the operation had
begun but would not give details. On Friday, Army Chief of Staff Asfaq
Parvez Kayani met with the country's top government and political
leaders to brief them on the situation in South Waziristan and on the
wave of violence that has swept over the country in the last two
weeks.
According to Dawn, a Pakistani television channel, Kayani told those
at the meeting that it was critical to begin operations in Waziristan
given the dramatic rise in terror attacks in the country. At least 175
people have been killed in the attacks, which have included a series
of suicide bombings and commando-style raids on key security
installations. Last weekend, a team of militants attacked the Army's
heavily fortified headquarters in Rawalpindi, a bold strike on what
amounts to Pakistan's "Pentagon." The attack left 19 dead.
For months, the military has been getting ready for an upcoming
offensive by hitting Taliban hideouts, training camps and weapons
caches with air strikes from fighter jets and helicopter gunships, and
by blocking the militant group's supply and escape routes. The Taliban
has claimed responsibility for the recent wave of attacks across
Pakistan, and has warned the violence would be ramped up if the
government went ahead with the offensive in Waziristan.
Previous offensives waged by the Pakistani military against
Waziristan's militants sputtered. Operations in 2003 and 2004 were
followed by cease-fires that merely allowed Taliban militants to
regroup and consolidate their authority in the region.
Analysts say the government currently has widespread support within
the Pakistani population to launch the offensive. However, ensuring
support from the tribal groups that live in the Waziristan region will
depend on the level of collateral damage created by the offensive, as
well as how thousands of Pashtun villagers fleeing Waziristan are
treated as they seek refuge. Amnesty International reported Friday
that 90,000 to 150,000 South Waziristan Pakistanis have fled the
region since July, when the military began bombarding Taliban hideouts
in the area.
Copyright © 2009, The Los Angeles Times
chhotemianinshallah
Setbacks weaken Al Qaeda's ability to mount attacks, terrorism
officials say
Al Qaeda and its allies remain a threat, particularly because of an
increasing ability to attract recruits from Central Asia and Turkey to
offset the diminishing number of Arab and Western militants.
A Pakistani police officer in Dera Ismail Khan checks the papers of a
tribal villager traveling from Waziristan, the target of an impending
military offensive. (Ishtiaq Mahsud / Associated Press / October 14,
2009)
By Sebastian Rotella
October 17, 2009
Reporting from Washington - As Al Qaeda is weakened by the loss of
leaders, fighters, funds and ideological appeal, the extremist
network's ability to attack targets in the United States and Western
Europe has diminished, anti-terrorism officials say.
Nonetheless, Al Qaeda and allied groups based primarily in Pakistan
remain a threat, particularly because of an increasing ability to
attract recruits from Central Asia and Turkey to offset the decline in
the number of militants from the Arab world and the West.
Al Qaeda's relative strength these days is of crucial importance in
the complex debate in Washington over future U.S. troop levels and
tactics in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Although factions within the Obama administration differ on how best
to deal with the Taliban in Afghanistan, all agree that the paramount
priority is defeating Al Qaeda. Unlike the Afghan Taliban, the
terrorist network Al Qaeda remains committed to a holy war against the
West with a goal of matching or surpassing its devastating attacks in
2001.
Western intelligence officials say that the group, already under
pressure from U.S. drone strikes and facing a likely Pakistani army
assault on its sanctuary, has been further racked by internal division
and rifts with tribal groups.
"Some pretty experienced individuals have been taken out of the
equation," a senior British anti-terrorism official said in a recent
interview.
"There is fear, insecurity and paranoia about individuals arriving
from outside, worries about spies and infiltration," said the
official, who requested anonymity because of the sensitive topic.
"There is a sense that it has become a less romantic experience. Which
is important because of the impact on Al Qaeda the brand, the myth,
the idea of the glorious jihadist."
Al Qaeda last spilled blood in the West in July 2005 when bombing
attacks on the London transportation system killed 52 people. Global
cooperation and aggressive infiltration by Western spy services have
thwarted subsequent plots, and a stepped-up campaign of drone strikes
has killed many Al Qaeda leaders and intensified divisions among
extremist groups.
"There are tensions about AQ as an entity," the British official said.
"It has embedded itself in [northwestern Pakistan] over the course of
years with marriages, links to tribes. The drone strikes appear to be
straining those bonds with the locals."
Some Arabs and Westerners still trek to the training compounds of
Waziristan, though the numbers have shrunk as intelligence services
get better at tracking and capturing trainees. British militants
thought to have trained in Pakistan during the last year and a half
number in the tens, not the hundreds, the official said.
French authorities say only small numbers of militants from France are
going to Pakistan. Italian anti-terrorism officials have not detected
any recruits from their country traveling to Pakistan since 2005 or
'06, said Armando Spataro, a top terrorism prosecutor in Milan.
The dwindling supply of foreign recruits results partly from an
ideological backlash in the Muslim world, experts say.
President Obama cited the debilitated condition of the terrorist
network last week during a visit with U.S. counter-terrorism
officials.
"Because of our efforts, Al Qaeda and its allies have not only lost
operational capacity, they've lost legitimacy and credibility," he
said.
The number of failed plots in the West, whether directed or inspired
by Al Qaeda, also shows that the quality of operatives has declined,
scholar Marc Sageman testified at a hearing of the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee last week.
"Counter-terrorism is working," said Sageman, a former CIA officer and
New York Police Department expert. "Terrorist organizations can no
longer cherry-pick the best candidates as they did in the 1990s. There
is no Al Qaeda recruitment program: Al Qaeda and its allies are
totally dependent on self-selected volunteers."
In several recent cases, Western trainees in Pakistan allegedly had
contact with Mustafa Abu Yazid, also known as Said Sheik, a longtime
Egyptian financial boss. Abu Yazid acts as the day-to-day chief of the
network while Osama bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman Zawahiri, spend
their time eluding capture, said the British official.
The training and direction of Westerners had largely been coordinated
by one individual: Rashid Rauf, a Pakistani Briton who died in a
missile strike in November. Investigators believe Rauf was the handler
of British operatives in plots dating back to a failed 2004 bombing in
London.
A French trainee who confessed this year detailed to French police the
relatively small size of the network. Walid Othmani, who is of
Tunisian descent, said he trained in the Waziristan region with a
mostly Arab contingent of 300 to 500 fighters, according to a French
police report provided by a defense lawyer.
"The chief of the Arabs is . . . of Egyptian origin," Othmani told
interrogators. "The Arab group is mostly people of Saudi origin. You
find people from the Middle East, North Africans, blacks, Turks and a
majority of Arabs."
Anti-terrorism officials said Othmani's estimate largely matches
previous intelligence.
The French militant also described a trend that may signal a new
threat: the rise of Turks and Central Asians.
"There's a big Turkish group, the Arab group [the smallest of the
groups], two rather large Uzbek groups, a group of Uighurs from
Turkestan [the region in China officially known as Xinjiang] . . . the
largest of the groups," he said under questioning. "There are also two
Kurdish groups and finally a mixed group led by an Uzbek."
Western investigators worry about the Uzbek-led Islamic Jihad Union.
The IJU broke off in 2002 from the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, a
longtime Al Qaeda ally.
The IJU has made a name for itself as a Turkic-speaking alternative to
Al Qaeda for Turks and Central Asians. The Turkic groups produce
Internet propaganda in amounts that rival those of Al Qaeda, and have
threatened Germany because of its military presence in Afghanistan.
"For the Turkic groups, Germany is America," said Evan Kohlmann, a
terrorism expert who works with law enforcement around the world.
The IJU also directed a group of converts and Turks from Germany who
were convicted of plotting to bomb U.S. military targets in Germany in
2007.
An IJU video recently obtained by Kohlmann shows Germans training in
Pakistani badlands along with a muscular man with a shaved head who
brandishes an automatic rifle. The video identifies him as an
American.
"Law enforcement is deathly afraid of these groups," Kohlmann said.
Recent attacks in Pakistan highlight other threats to the West. The
bold strikes on military and government targets were blamed on joint
teams of Pakistani Taliban and Punjabi militant groups, both allies of
Al Qaeda that could protect or rejuvenate the network.
"The ties between Al Qaeda and the Pakistani Taliban are closer and
closer," Jean-Louis Bruguiere, a veteran French anti-terrorism
magistrate, said in an interview. "Then you have the danger of other
Pakistani networks like Lashkar-e-Taiba that have had complicity in
the past with elements of the state. Al Qaeda might be diluted, but it
could become part of a larger threat."
Two Americans with links to Lashkar were convicted this summer in
Atlanta of conspiring with militants in Canada and Europe and filming
prospective targets in Washington.
In contrast, the Pakistani Taliban, like its Afghani counterpart,
rarely surfaces in plots against the West.
One murky case hints at the potential: the arrests last year of a
group of Pakistanis in Barcelona, Spain. Then-Pakistani Taliban chief
Baitullah Mahsud allegedly sent would-be suicide bombers to Barcelona,
shadowed by a Pakistani informant working for French intelligence.
The informant called in a police raid when the suspects allegedly said
they were about to commit a suicide attack on the Barcelona subway. No
explosives were found, however. Some French and Spanish officials said
the imminence of the attack was exaggerated and the links to Mahsud,
who died in an airstrike this year, were unclear.
Nonetheless, the alliance between Al Qaeda and the Pakistani Taliban
raises concern, Bruguiere said.
"Such ambitions by the Pakistani Taliban cannot be excluded, because
they want to join in the global jihad," Bruguiere said.
chhotemianinshallah
Oct 14, 2009 7:46 pm US/Pacific Al Qaeda's Afghan Head Reportedly
Contacted Zazi
NEW YORK (AP) --The airport shuttle driver accused of plotting a
bombing in New York had contacts with al Qaeda that went nearly all
the way to the top, to an Osama bin Laden confidant believed to be the
terrorist group's leader in Afghanistan, U.S. intelligence officials
told The Associated Press.
Mustafa Abu al-Yazid, an Egyptian reputed to be one of the founders of
the terrorist network, used a middleman to contact Afghan immigrant
Najibullah Zazi as the 24-year-old man hatched a plot to use homemade
backpack bombs, perhaps on the city's mass transit system, the two
intelligence officials said.
Intelligence officials declined to discuss the nature of the contact
or whether al-Yazid contacted Zazi to offer simple encouragement or
help with the bombing plot prosecutors say Zazi was pursuing.
Al-Yazid's contact with Zazi indicates that al Qaeda leadership took
an intense interest in what U.S. officials have called one of the most
serious terrorism threats crafted on U.S. soil since the 9/11 attacks.
"Zazi working with the al Qaeda core is exceptionally alarming," said
Daniel Bynam of the Brookings Institution's Saban Center. "The al
Qaeda core is capable of far more effective terrorist attacks than
jihadist terrorists acting on their own, and coordination with the
core also enables bin Laden to choose the timing to maximize the
benefit to his organization."
U.S. intelligence officials said earlier that Zazi had contact with an
unnamed senior al Qaeda operative. That helped distinguish Zazi from
other would-be terrorists who have acted on their own in planning or
attempting U.S. attacks.
The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the case
remains under investigation, declined to describe al-Yazid's specific
interaction with Zazi, who has pleaded not guilty to conspiring to use
weapons of mass destruction. But one senior U.S. intelligence official
said the contact between Zazi and the senior al Qaeda leader occurred
through an intermediary.
Just weeks before U.S. intelligence officials identified Zazi as a
possible terrorist threat in late August, John Brennan, President
Barack Obama's top domestic terrorism adviser, told a Washington
audience that "another attack on the U.S. homeland remains the top
priority for the al Qaeda senior leadership."
U.S. intelligence officials and prosecutors have said that Zazi was
recruited and trained by al Qaeda. They say he and others traveled
last year to Pakistan to receive the training.
Prosecutors say Zazi, during meetings with federal investigators
before his arrest last month, "admitted that he received instructions
from al Qaeda operatives on subjects such as weapons and explosives"
during his trip to Pakistan.
Zazi, who is being held without bond in New York while awaiting trial,
has denied receiving al Qaeda training or visiting one of the group's
training camps. He said before his arrest that he traveled to Pakistan
to see his wife, who lives in Peshawar.
In court documents, prosecutors say Zazi is linked to three e-mail
accounts that he used to pursue his bomb plot. Investigators say they
found nine pages of handwritten bomb-making instructions when
searching two of the e-mail accounts. The notes were sent to the e-
mail accounts while Zazi was in Pakistan last year, prosecutors say.
The bomb, which can be made of hydrogen peroxide and flour, is similar
to the explosives used by terrorists in the 2005 London subway
bombings that killed 52 people.
Prosecutors say Zazi accessed the bomb-making instructions and
downloaded them on to his computer after moving to the Denver area in
January. In a Colorado hotel suite in early September, Zazi contacted
someone "on multiple occasions" for help correcting mixtures of bomb
ingredients, "each communication more urgent in tone than the last,"
court papers say.
Al-Yazid, 53, also known as Abu Saeed al-Masri and Sheikh Said, is a
well-known al Qaeda figure who initially disagreed with bin Laden's
9/11 plot, according to the 9/11 Commission Report. Al-Yazid was known
at the time of the attack as head of al-Qaida's finance committee.
He proclaimed in a June interview with Al-Jazeera television that al-
Qaida would use nuclear weapons in its fight against the United
States.
A member of Eygpt's radical Islamist movement, al-Yazid took part in
the 1981 assassination of President Anwar Sadat, according to "In the
Graveyard of Empires," a book by counterterrorism expert Seth G.
Jones. He spent three years in prison, where he joined Ayman al-
Zawahiri's Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Jones wrote. al-Zawahiri is
considered al Qaeda's No. 2 leader, behind Osama bin Laden.
Al-Yazid left Eygpt for Afghanistan in 1988 and later moved to Sudan
in 1991 with bin Laden, serving as his accountant. Al-Yazid returned
to Afghanistan in 1996 and became a confidant of bin Laden and a
member of its Shura Council, according to Jones.
In 2007, al-Yazid took over al Qaeda operations in Afghanistan.
He was reported killed last year in clashes with Pakistani forces near
the Afghan border in August 2008 but re-emerged to the surprise of
counterterrorism officials.
Terrorism experts say al-Yazid's contact with Zazi in the foiled New
York City bombing plot underscores the seriousness of the threat.
"I think that it would suggest the Zazi was taken seriously by al
Qaeda, and that they wanted him to feel encouraged and supported,"
said Charles S. Faddis, who headed the weapons of mass destruction
unit at the CIA's Counterterrorism Center until he retired in May
2008.
"It may also have meant that they were attempting to determine to what
extent he represented an opportunity to do something inside the United
States," Faddis said, who also ran operations against al Qaeda. "For
instance, they may have been trying to figure out if they were looking
only at an individual or at someone who represented a larger group of
jihadists."
((c) 2009 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may
not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.)
chhotemianinshallah
ASIA NEWS
OCTOBER 5, 2009.
Al Qaeda's Diminished Role Stirs Afghan Troop Debate
.By MATTHEW ROSENBERG in Islamabad and SIOBHAN GORMAN in Washington
Since first invading Afghanistan nearly a decade ago, America set one
primary goal: Eliminate al Qaeda's safe haven.
Today, intelligence and military officials say they've severely
constrained al Qaeda's ability to operate there and in Pakistan -- and
that's reshaping the debate over U.S. strategy in the region.
Hunted by U.S. drones, beset by money problems and finding it tougher
to lure young Arabs to the bleak mountains of Pakistan, al Qaeda is
seeing its role shrink there and in Afghanistan, according to
intelligence reports and Pakistani and U.S. officials. Conversations
intercepted by the U.S. show al Qaeda fighters complaining of
shortages of weapons, clothing and, in some cases, food. The number of
foreign fighters in Afghanistan appears to be declining, U.S. military
officials say.
.For Arab youths who are al Qaeda's primary recruits, "it's not
romantic to be cold and hungry and hiding," said a senior U.S.
official in South Asia.
In Washington, the question of Al Qaeda's strength is at the heart of
the debate over whether to send thousands more troops to Afghanistan.
On Saturday, eight American troops and two Afghan soldiers were killed
fighting Taliban forces -- one of the worst single-day battlefield
losses for U.S. forces since the war began.
Opponents of sending more troops prefer a narrower campaign consisting
of missile strikes and covert action inside Pakistan, rather than a
broader war against the Taliban, the radical Islamist movement that
ruled Afghanistan for years and provided a haven to al Qaeda's Osama
bin Laden. Their reasoning: The larger threat to America remains al
Qaeda, not the Taliban; so, best not to get embroiled in a local war
that history suggests may be unwinnable.
Military commanders pressing for extra troops counter that sending
more forces could help translate the gains against al Qaeda into a
political settlement with less ideologically committed elements of the
Taliban. And, they argue, that would improve the odds of stabilizing
Afghanistan for the long run.
A key point of contention in President Barack Obama's review of war
strategy is the ability of al Qaeda to reconstitute in Afghanistan.
Some officials, including aides to Richard Holbrooke, the U.S.'s
special representative to the region, have argued that the Taliban
wouldn't allow al Qaeda to regain its footing inside Afghanistan,
since it was the alliance between the two that cost the Taliban their
control of the country after Sept. 11.
A senior military official, however, characterized this as a minority
view within the debate. He noted that even if the Taliban sought to
keep al Qaeda from returning, it would have little means to do so.
Retired Gen. James Jones, the president's National Security Adviser,
acknowledged on CNN Sunday that the links between the two groups had
become a "central issue" in the White House discussion. He said he
believed the return of the Taliban "could" mean the return of al
Qaeda.
.In the political debate, al Qaeda's diminished role has bolstered the
argument of those advocating a narrower campaign. They say continuing
the drone campaign is sufficient to keep al Qaeda at bay, said Bruce
Hoffman, a Georgetown University professor who has written extensively
on al Qaeda. Mr. Hoffman believes that argument is misguided, however,
and that if the U.S. pulls out, al Qaeda will return.
"Al Qaeda may be diminished, but it still poses a threat," he said.
The debate will move to Capitol Hill Tuesday when the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee holds a hearing on confronting al Qaeda in
Afghanistan.
Though there is emerging international consensus among
counterterrorism officials that al Qaeda isn't the foe it used to be,
U.S., Afghan and Pakistani officials caution that it doesn't mean the
fight in Afghanistan or Pakistan is tilting America's way. "They're
not defeated. They're not dismantled, but they are being disrupted,"
said a senior U.S. intelligence official in Washington.
Mr. Obama himself has argued that al Qaeda could strengthen if the
U.S. eases up on the Taliban. "If left unchecked, the Taliban
insurgency will mean an even larger safe haven from which al Qaeda
would plot to kill more Americans. So this is not only a war worth
fighting," he said at a speech in Phoenix at the Veterans of Foreign
Wars convention in August, before the current strategy debate heated
up. "This is fundamental to the defense of our people."
Al Qaeda apparently retains a global reach, as suggested by the Sept.
19 arrest in Colorado of Najibullah Zazi, 24 years old. U.S.
prosecutors allege Mr. Zazi is part of an al Qaeda cell who trained in
Pakistan and was trying to make the same kind of explosives used in
the 2005 London bombings.
U.S. officials also say al Qaeda remains tight with the network of
Jalaluddin Haqqani and his son, Sirajuddin, one of the Afghan
insurgency's top leaders. The late leader of the Pakistan Taliban,
Baitullah Mehsud, was similarly close with al Qaeda before being
killed in August by a strike from a U.S. drone aircraft. U.S.
officials say they hope his death will weaken al Qaeda's Taliban ties.
.For years, the fortunes of al Qaeda and the Taliban moved in tandem.
The Taliban hosted al Qaeda in Afghanistan, and Mr. bin Laden's
network launched its 2001 attacks from there. After the U.S.-led
invasion of Afghanistan, the Taliban continued to provide haven after
retreating to the tribal areas of Pakistan, while al Qaeda trained
Taliban fighters.
But in the past year, the fates of the two organizations have
diverged. The Taliban insurgency has become increasingly violent and
brazen and spread to areas of Afghanistan that only a year ago were
considered solidly pro-government. Al Qaeda, in contrast, has seen its
role shrink because it is struggling to raise money from its global
network of financiers and attract recruits.
Today there are signs al Qaeda is relying more on affiliated groups to
press its agenda world-wide, according to one official briefed on the
matter. These groups include Pakistani movements such as Jaish-e-
Muhammad and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, Indonesia-based Jemaah Islamiyah and
the Islamic Jihad Union, whose roots are in Uzbekistan.
As affiliates like these "continue to develop and evolve," their
threat to the U.S. has grown, Michael Leiter, director of the National
Counterterrorism Center, said in Senate hearings last week.
Meanwhile in Afghanistan, the presence of fewer foreign fighters --
Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks and others -- potentially changes the dynamics
of the fight there.
Foreign militants serve as a battlefield "accellerant," said Gen.
Stanley McChrystal, the commander of U.S. and North Atlantic Treaty
Organization forces in Afghanistan, in an interview. "When a foreign
fighter comes into Afghanistan, he doesn't have anything else he's
going to do -- he's going to fight until he dies or goes somewhere
else," he said. By contrast, "an Afghan is fighting for something, and
if he starts to get that, his motivation changes."
Right now, Gen. McChrystal said, "we don't see huge numbers of foreign
fighters, which obviously makes you believe there's not nearly the
presence there was of foreign fighters....I hope it's a trend, but I'm
not prepared to confidently say that."
Even if Al Qaeda is struggling, it already has imparted dangerous
knowledge -- how to build suicide car bombs, launch complex gunmen
assaults and tap wealthy sympathizers in the Persian Gulf -- that made
it a key asset to the Taliban several years ago.
Al Qaeda also remains allied with and protected by the Taliban.
Allowing the insurgents to succeed would likely give al Qaeda the
space it needs to regroup, rearm and, most importantly, reestablish
itself as the premier global jihadi movement, U.S., Pakistani and
Afghan officials say.
Al Qaeda's message of world-wide jihad, however, has lost much of its
popularity amid the rise of militant groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan
and elsewhere who tend to focus their ire locally. That, combined with
a perception among would-be followers that the group has only paid lip-
service to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, also has reduced its
global credibility, officials say.
Support is even declining among some of al Qaeda's allies. It has lost
support from a group of Saudi sheiks known as the Sahwa, or
"Awakening," movement. (It's unrelated to a similar-sounding group in
Iraq.) Some of the sheiks are now trying to persuade members of al
Qaeda's North African branch to give up jihad, said Daniel Lav,
director of the Middle East and North Africa Reform Project at the
Middle East Media Research Institute in Washington.
Mr. bin Laden and al Qaeda No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahiri are believed to be
hiding in Pakistan's tribal lands bordering Afghanistan. But a U.S.
campaign of missile strikes by pilotless Predator aircraft has
decimated al Qaeda's second- and third-tier leadership.
One example cited by U.S. and Pakistani officials: Usama al-Kini, a
Kenyan citizen believed to have been al Qaeda's operations chief
inside Pakistan and a key architect of the September 2008 truck
bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, which killed at least 50
people. He was slain along with his deputy, Sheik Ahmed Salim Swedan,
a Kenyan, in a Jan. 1 missile strike, officials say.
Both men's history with al Qaeda stretched back to the group's first
major strike, the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and
Tanzania.
Officials also pointed to Rashid Rauf, the alleged mastermind of a
2006 plot to blow up airliners over the Atlantic, who they say was
slain in a drone attack last year, although Pakistani and British
officials express uncertainty over whether he is actually dead.
But even if Mr. Rauf is still alive, the fact that he became such a
primary target made it tough for him to fulfill his role as a
communications link between Pakistan and Britain, says an officer from
Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence spy agency. Other operatives
who have been detained by British authorizes have further eroded those
communications links, an official familiar with the intelligence
reports on al Qaeda added.
The drones, operated by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, have so
far killed 11 of the men on the U.S.'s initial list of the top 20 al
Qaeda targets, the official said. The U.S. has since drawn up a fresh
list, including the nine holdovers from the first one. Four of the men
on the new list are now dead, too. Those who remain are focused on
finding sanctuary, possibly at the expense of operations and training,
say officials and militants with links to al Qaeda.
"The Arabs stay out of sight now. They were always secretive. But now
they are very secretive...They see spies everywhere," said a man named
Walliullah, who Pakistani officials say is an aide to Afghan insurgent
leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. Mr. Hekmatyar is allied with the Afghan
Taliban and loosely tied to al Qaeda.
At the same time, U.S. intelligence collection in Pakistan has vastly
improved, officials say. Western intelligence services have had more
success penetrating al Qaeda groups lately, according to Richard
Barrett, the United Nations' coordinator for monitoring al Qaeda and
the Taliban. "There's many more human sources being run into the
groups," Mr. Barrett, a former official with Britain's Secret
Intelligence Service, told an audience at a Washington think tank last
week.
Similarly, the U.S. in the past was unable to comprehensively monitor
communications in Pakistan; that has now been rectified, said an
official briefed on U.S. operations. Through that monitoring, U.S.,
British and Pakistani intelligence officials have seen increasing
evidence that al Qaeda is having difficulty raising money.
"Al Qaeda is in fund-raising mode, and they seem to be hurting for
cash," said another U.S. official. Intercepts of conversations have
caught al Qaeda militants complaining they lack cash and supplies,
including weapons.
The new intelligence has provided fresh ways to try to undermine the
foreign al Qaeda fighters. Pakistani authorities say they've started
targeting food shipments believed to be headed for al Qaeda
operatives, who prefer their own cuisine over local fare. "The Talibs,
they're eating mutton, chicken, bread -- the food ordinary people
eat," said an officer from Pakistan's ISI spy agency. "The Arabs want
their own food."
—Rehmat Mehsud in Islamabad and Evan Perez and Peter Spiegel in
Washington contributed to this report.
Write to Matthew Rosenberg at matthew....@wsj.com and Siobhan
Gorman at siobhan...@wsj.com
chhotemianinshallah
AP Top News at 8:03 a.m. EDT
(AP) – 1 hour ago
DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan — More than 30,000 Pakistani soldiers
launched a ground offensive against al-Qaida and the Taliban's main
stronghold along the Afghan border Saturday, officials said, in the
country's toughest test yet against a strengthening insurgency. The
United States pushed the government to carry out the assault in South
Waziristan, and it comes after two weeks of militant attacks that have
killed more than 175 people across the nuclear-armed country. That has
ramped up pressure on the army to act.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
chhotemianinshallah
Pakistan Moves Troops Into Taliban Stronghold
By JANE PERLEZ
Published: October 17, 2009
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistan moved large contingents of troops into
the Taliban stronghold of South Waziristan on Saturday, beginning a
long-anticipated ground offensive against Al Qaeda and Taliban
militants in treacherous terrain that has overwhelmed the army in the
past, the Pakistani Army said.
Military spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said the attack was launched
from three directions.
The operation is the most ambitious by the Pakistani Army against
Taliban militants, who unleashed a torrent of attacks against top
security installations in the past 10 days in anticipation of the
assault. The militants’ targets included the army headquarters where
planning for the new offensive has been under way for four months.
The United States has been pressing the Pakistani Army to move ahead
with the campaign in South Waziristan, arguing that it was vital for
Pakistan to show resolve against the Qaeda-fortified Pakistani
Taliban, which now embraces a vast and dedicated network of militant
groups arrayed against the state, including those nurtured by Pakistan
to fight India.
The officials said the fighting there would probably not help the
American effort in Afghanistan to a great extent since the Taliban
stronghold in Southern Waziristan does not have a border with
Afghanistan.
Precise information about the assault was impossible to immediately
verify. No reporters are traveling with the troops, and phones in
Wana, the administrative capital of South Waziristan, were not
answered Saturday.
The civilian government met with the army chief of staff, Gen. Ahfaq
Pervez Kayani, on Friday, and a statement afterward said that the
government had granted permission for the operation.
In the North-West Frontier Province, civilian officials said Saturday
that they had been told by the military that soldiers were moving in a
pincer movement from government areas in Razmak in the north into
Makeen; from Wana in the west into Kani Gurram, and from Jandola in
the east into Spinkai Raghzai.
In the last few days, fighter jets have hammered the mountainous
enclave, where the Pakistani Taliban now led by Hakimullah Mehsud keep
their operations center, according to civilians in Wana who had been
reached by telephone at the time.
Most of the areas where the army is headed are 6,000 feet to 7,000
feet high. In three previous operations against the Taliban in the
same area — in 2004, in 2005 and again in early 2008 — the army sued
for peace.
The region inside a ring of government-held towns of Jandola, Razmak
and Shakhai, is the homeland of the Mehsud tribe, who have a
reputation as the fiercest of fighters in Pakistan.
In a taste of Taliban tactics, an army convoy to the area of
operations from North Waziristan was hit by a remote controlled bomb
Saturday, killing two soldiers and injuring four others, according to
a journalist reached by telephone in Miram Shah, the capital of North
Waziristan. That area in North Waziristan was supposed to have been
neutralized after talks between a militant group headed by Gul Bahadar
and the military, the journalist said.
This time, though, under the leadership of General Kayani, the army is
better prepared. It also had been left little choice on whether to
take on the operation given the onslaught of attacks by the Taliban
and Al Qaeda against the Pakistani state, politicians have said in the
past several weeks.
About 28,000 soldiers were involved in the operation in South
Waziristan and were set to face about 10,000 militants, army officials
said. About 1,500 particularly tough Uzbek fighters were at the core
of the Taliban in the mountainous enclave, they said.
The proportion of soldiers to militants did not appear to be very
high, some military specialists said, noting that in the Swat Valley
in May, the Pakistani Army fielded more than 30,000 soldiers against a
similar number of less experienced militants.
The army expected the South Waziristan operation to last about two
months, a period that stretches into the winter season there, a
Pakistani official who has been briefed by the military said.
The military was confident that this time the soldiers could retake
and hold the Mehsud area, the official said.
But operations in other parts of the tribal areas in the last year
have shown how hard guerrilla tactics have proved for an army trained
in conventional warfare against its arch-enemy, India.
In Bajaur and Mohmand, two tribal areas close to the provincial
capital of Peshawar, and far less mountainous than South Waziristan,
the army has been forced to launch repeated air attacks against
persistent Taliban attacks, even though much of the area was declared
cleared of militants almost a year ago.
South Waziristan sits at the southern tip of the tribal areas, and
needs a much longer supply line than Bajaur and Mohmand, military
experts said.
Militants with operational support from the Taliban in the Mehsud area
held more than 40 hostages in a 20-hour siege at army headquarters
last weekend, and on Thursday, Taliban fighters attacked three
security installations simultaneously in Lahore. On Friday, militants
attacked a special police cell in Peshawar, the capital of the North-
West Frontier Province, the latest in six attacks in less than two
weeks.
Tens of thousands civilians fled South Waziristan in the past few
months in anticipation of fighting, moving in with relatives all over
Pakistan. Thousands more moved into government-held towns on the edge
of South Waziristan in the last several days, United Nations officials
said.
With a population of about 500,000, South Waziristan was now probably
empty of most civilians not involved with the militants, provincial
officials said.
The number of displaced was not expected to come close to the more
than one million people who left the Swat Valley last May, they said.
The preparations for the South Waziristan campaign had been thorough,
but the effort is fraught with uncertainties, said a former brigadier,
Javaid Hussain.
“It is the fear of the unknown that is weighing very heavily on those
involved in the planning,” he said.
Ismail Khan and Pir Zubair Shah contributed reporting from Peshawar,
Pakistan.
chhotemianinshallah
Key players in the U.S. debate on Afghanistan policy
A look at the views of some administration officials as Obama revisits
U.S. strategy for the war.
October 17, 2009
The Obama administration's debate over Afghanistan is illuminating
differences within a national security team previously known for
conducting business behind closed doors with little fuss or dissent.
In five White House sessions, military leaders intent on getting more
firepower have been seated beside civilian officials fearful of
political fallout from an escalation of the war. Key players have
hedged on questions of strategy and troop levels. There have been
signs of a compromise that would tell allies that the United States
remains committed to Afghanistan while reassuring Americans that the
goals are limited. Here are the views of some top players:
Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal
Commander of U.S. and allied forces in Afghanistan
McChrystal became the protagonist in the debate after he asked for
40,000 more troops to better protect the Afghan people and train
security forces. President Obama is likely to come under heavy
criticism from conservatives if he does not meet the request.
McChrystal's appointment in Afghanistan was pushed by Adm. Michael G.
Mullen, chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff. The general was chastised
by administration officials for publicly criticizing a more limited
approach, yet he retains White House and Pentagon support.
Joe Biden
Vice president
The most vocal critic of the McChrystal approach, Biden has argued
that the administration should hold off on any troop buildup and focus
its efforts on America's top enemy, Al Qaeda.
The administration settled on an ambitious strategy and ordered more
troops to Afghanistan in March. But Biden believes there are major
problems, including a weak Afghan government hobbled by a tainted
election, and an increasingly violent Taliban onslaught. He also is
worried about dwindling public support. However, he has sought to
emphasize that he is open to compromise.
Robert M. Gates
Defense secretary
Initially, Gates was skeptical of further troop increases, saying a
larger U.S. footprint probably would prove counterproductive. But he
signaled last month that he was open to a buildup based on
McChrystal's assessment.
Gates, a student of Afghanistan's long history of wars, has held his
cards close, and some officials believe he is open to compromise,
while others think he will back McChrystal's plan. His views are
expected to carry some weight with Obama.
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Clinton's public statements have suggested that she would back
McChrystal's request. Over the summer, she equated the Taliban with Al
Qaeda and said that "terrorism anywhere is a threat to everywhere."
More recently, she has backtracked on her view of the Taliban threat.
Still, some U.S. officials say she remains uncommitted as she
evaluates the details of McChrystal's proposal. Obama's special envoy
to Afghanistan and Pakistan, Richard C. Holbrooke, is a close ally of
Clinton.
Rahm Emanuel
White House chief of staff
Emanuel told Obama early in the year that committing to a risky war in
Afghanistan could threaten his presidency. Emanuel hasn't attended the
war council sessions, yet his influence with Obama is considered
substantial.
He has questioned whether the Afghan government is a reliable partner
for the United States and whether an all-out counterinsurgency
strategy can succeed.
Emanuel is among influential officials in the White House and at other
agencies who are believed to be concerned about a U.S. overcommitment.
James L. Jones
White House national
security advisor
Last year, Jones headed a study group that called for a military
buildup in Afghanistan. But the retired Marine general warned military
officials this summer that an additional troop request would not be
welcome at the White House.
Jones has been careful in his public comments on the issue, but
administration officials have said he is opposed to McChrystal's troop
request.
Copyright © 2009, The Los Angeles Times
...and I am Sid Harth
chhotemianinshallah
Obama Can Live With the Taliban: Reports
Goal is to weaken, but not eliminate, Taliban while taking fight to Al-
Qaeda
Updated 1:39 AM PDT, Fri, Oct 9, 2009
President Obama and his team of advisers are coalescing on a new
strategy for the war in Afghanistan that prioritizes the fight against
Al-Qaeda ahead of taking on the Taliban, senior administration
officials told multiple news outlets.
Obama will meet with his national security team again today to flesh
out the strategy after more than six hours spent debating the war the
past several days, The Washington Post reports. At issue has been
whether to send up to 40,000 American troops to join the already
68,000 there in Afghanistan, as Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal has
requested. During the meetings, the Obama administration has concluded
that no number of troops could vanquish the Taliban, according to the
Post.
"Are they violent adversaries? Yes," one official wrote of the
Taliban in an e-mail to The Los Angeles Times. "And we would not
tolerate their return to power as they were before 9/11."
In general, Republicans have supported Gen. McChrystal’s troop
request, while Democrats have been wary of escalating the war. A new
Associated Press-GfK poll shows public support for the mission has
fallen from 44 percent in July to 40 percent.
chhotemianinshallah
Raids kill 25 Taliban in Afghanistan: officials
(AFP) – 4 hours ago
KHOST, Afghanistan — NATO and Afghan forces have killed 25 Taliban
fighters in assaults across southern Afghanistan, a government
official and the defence ministry said Saturday.
In the deadliest incident, an air strike killed 20 militants late
Friday in the Urgun district of Paktika province, said Hamidullah
Zawak, spokesman for the provincial governor.
"As a result of the US-led coalition forces' air strike, 20 armed
opposition were killed," he told AFP by telephone.
"These people intended to attack security posts and the US-led
coalition. They were killed before they could do so."
The Afghan defence ministry said meanwhile five militants were killed
in an Afghan army commando operation on Friday in the Gereshk district
of Helmand province.
In Sangin district, also in Helmand, one Afghan soldier was killed and
another injured during a small-arms attack, the ministry added.
Southern Afghanistan -- the spiritual heartland of the Taliban -- has
seen the most fierce fighting since US-led international forces
toppled the hardline Islamist regime in 2001.
US President Barack Obama is under pressure to order thousands more
soldiers to Afghanistan, where the commander of the 100,000-strong US
and NATO force, US General Stanley McChrystal, has reportedly asked
for 40,000 extra troops.
NATO's commander in the south, Dutch Major General Mart de Kruit, told
AFP in an interview this week that 10,000 to 15,000 more troops were
required to ensure security in the region.
More Afghan soldiers and police, plus civilians to work in
reconstruction and development projects, were also required, he said.
Copyright © 2009 AFP. All rights reserved
chhotemianinshallah
Taliban says taste of more to come
Sally Sara reported this story on Saturday, October 17, 2009 08:03:00
Listen to MP3 of this story ( minutes)
Alternate WMA version | MP3 download
ELIZABETH JACKSON: Another suicide car bombing in the Pakistani city
of Peshawar has killed at least 12 people and injured seven.
It's the second attack in as many days and comes as the Pakistani
government prepares for a sustained assault on Taliban strongholds.
Our South Asia correspondent Sally Sara is in Islamabad.
I spoke to her a short time ago and asked her whether the Pakistani
people were unnerved by the fact that this latest attack happened in
an area which is considered to be one of Pakistan's most secure, near
an army garrison.
SALLY SARA: That's right, and that's a pattern that we've seen with a
lot of the attacks in the past three or four days, is that the
militants from the Taliban have been able to hit what they call 'hard
targets' - those that are heavily, protective...protected, and also
targets which are very iconic.
So being able to hit military and police targets and also areas where
civilians are; that's the pattern that we've seen in these attacks
which have claimed so many lives over the past few days.
ELIZABETH JACKSON: And this was quite obviously aimed directly at
Pakistan's police service. I think three officers were among those
killed this time?
SALLY SARA: That's right. But again, unfortunately, when these attacks
are happening in busy areas, many of the victims as it was the case
with this particular attack, were civilians; women and children in
this case, lost their lives; those who happened to be walking past
when such powerful explosives were detonated.
In this case police were saying up to 70 kilograms of high-quality
explosives was detonated. And if you look at some of the television
pictures of this attack a mosque which was nearby, a two story
building, part of the wall on the upper floor of that is just
completely gone.
So you can imagine the force of those explosives and the effect that
that would have on a human body of those people who just were walking
past when the blast happened.
ELIZABETH JACKSON: Sally, what's been the reaction? Is the Pakistani
Government still claiming that Taliban militancy is still on the back-
foot?
SALLY SARA: The Government has been giving some mixed messages;
praising the security forces and then in the same breath saying that
some members of the security forces simply aren't equipped or
experienced to deal with this kind of threat.
The Interior Minister Rehman Malik was talking yesterday and said that
it's very important for people in Pakistan to unite in the war against
terrorism, but also important for them not to underestimate the
Taliban.
So, the Government have really seen that, particularly with these high
profile police targets that the militants from the Taliban have been
able to attack these high priority, high profile targets seemingly
with very little effort at all.
ELIZABETH JACKSON: And of course these latest wave of attacks come as
Pakistan's military prepares for what the Government has said is an
imminent assault on the Taliban stronghold in South Waziristan.
SALLY SARA: It is partially to do with that. The Government approved
this military operation into South Waziristan back in the middle of
the year. It hasn't happened yet.
The negotiations between the military and the Government are now
drawing closer, and of course in that part of the world near the
border with Afghanistan, winter and snow are coming soon so the
Government is running out of time for the military to go in there.
So the feeling is that that operation is imminent. More than 90,000
civilians have already fled their homes from that area because their
fears are very strong that this operation is about to get underway.
So the Taliban has said to the Government that if you go ahead with
this operation in South Waziristan in the heartland of the Taliban, if
you target our leadership, we are giving you a taste now of what will
happen.
ELIZABETH JACKSON: That's our South Asia correspondent Sally Sara,
joining us from Islamabad.
chhotemianinshallah
COMMENT: Taliban vs India —Rafia Zakaria
With the Americans refusing to take sides in any part of the conflict
that doesn’t suit their own national interests, little incentive
remains for the Pakistanis to construct a strategy that would leave
them without options after American withdrawal
As Pakistan was rocked by bomb blasts, from Lahore to Peshawar to
Kohat, Hakimullah Mehsud, the new leader of the Pakistani Taliban,
issued a statement threatening to dispatch Islamic militants to India
once an Islamic state had been established in Pakistan. In his
statement Hakimullah said: “We want an Islamic state, if we get that
then we will go to the borders and fight the Indians.”
Hakimullah’s statement is noteworthy for a variety of reasons. First,
included among the volley of blasts that have hit the region in the
past fortnight was one that targeted the Indian Embassy in Kabul for
the second time. The blast, on October 9, 2009, killed 17 people
including a top Indian diplomat and brought attention again to the
extent of Indian involvement in Afghanistan.
The blast came days before the Indians completed a electric
transmission line from Phul-e-Khumri to Kabul, one of several projects
worth $1.6 billion, making India the fifth largest donor to
Afghanistan. In addition to the electric transmission line, India has
also helped construct the Zaranj-Delaram Highway, which was
inaugurated in January of this year. They have also funded a hundred
small development projects in rural Afghanistan, designed to provide
quick respite to rural populations, and five medical missions that
dispense medicines to over 1,000 people a day.
However, as the caustic debate over the Kerry-Lugar Bill has
illustrated here in Pakistan, no amount of good deeds and development
projects come without the aid grantors expecting geo-strategic
advantages. India has constructed several consulates in Afghanistan,
including ones in Mazar-e Sharif, Herat, and Kandahar. In the fallout
from the second attack on their embassy in Kabul, Indian officials
have also re-engaged in the debate over whether India needs to send
troops to Afghanistan to take care of its investments. While the
consensus in India is still against such drastic action, the Indian
government and its allies within the Afghan government have made no
bones about pointing their fingers at the ISI as possible perpetrators
of the attack.
In turn, of course, Pakistani security agencies, in the aftermath of
the bombings in Lahore on October 15, 2009, have begun pointing
fingers at possible Indian involvement in the attacks, instead of
blaming the more obvious Taliban. Lahore Commissioner Khusro Pervez
blamed the Indian agency RAW for attacks in different parts of
Pakistan. Interior Minister Rehman Malik cautioned that no speculation
regarding Indian involvement should be engaged in without evidence.
Indeed, in the world of allegations and counter allegations that
defines the India-Pakistan relationship, evidence may be the hardest
thing to come by. What cannot be denied, however, is the fact that the
Taliban and the Indians are currently engaged in a grotesque
competition to be crowned Pakistan’s worst enemy. In other words, the
choice before Pakistan’s security agencies is to pick one of the two
on which to focus its limited security resources. As is well known,
the United States is pressurising Pakistan to pick the Taliban and go
on all out offensive against them in both the tribal areas as well as
Afghanistan. Given the merciless targeting of security forces in
Lahore and the recent attack on the General Headquarters in
Rawalpindi, this seems undoubtedly the reasonable option to stem the
seemingly irrepressible tide of bombings that is currently plaguing
the country.
The argument posited by the Americans, substantiated as it is by the
bloodthirstiness of the Taliban is a good one: in the era of terrorism
Pakistan should get over its obsessive fear of an Indian takeover and
concentrate instead on eliminating the Taliban who pose an urgent and
existential threat.
Yet while the argument is convincing from a normative standpoint, its
naiveté represents the biggest hole in American strategy toward the
region. This was pointed out in General McChrystal’s leaked report
which clearly states that increasing Indian involvement in Afghanistan
a hurdle in getting Pakistan to fight the Taliban. Despite this
acknowledgement, the United States refuses to take sides between India
and Pakistan, continuing on one hand to maintain a close and amicable
relationship with India while also expecting full co-operation from
Pakistan on the war on terror.
In turn, Pakistan equally doggedly wants assurances from the United
States that if it did indeed eliminate the Taliban from Afghanistan
with the help of the United States, some guarantee would be provided
against encirclement by India on the majority of its borders. It is
this missing assurance, one that the United States cannot and will not
give, that is the root of its crucial failure in both Afghanistan and
Pakistan today. The Americans simply continue to hope that the mayhem
caused by the Taliban will be so debilitating that Pakistan will
forget about its foes on the eastern border and concentrate on the
mess to the west.
Pakistanis for better or worse realise that both choices before them
are inherently bad ones. They can either choose to unequivocally
support the United States against the Taliban even if a pro-Indian
government is installed in Kabul, encircling the country on its
eastern and western borders by hostile forces. Or, they can wait and
hedge their bets that some of the Taliban can be co-opted into some
form of pseudo-Islamic state that appeases both their lust for power
and their zeal for literalist faith.
With the Americans refusing to take sides in any part of the conflict
that doesn’t suit their own national interests, little incentive
remains for the Pakistanis to construct a strategy that would leave
them without options after American withdrawal. Morality and reason
aside, it is difficult to trust an ally that refuses to take sides
against your enemy and hence the tragic reality that in a contest for
most hated enemy, India may still win.
Rafia Zakaria is an attorney living in the United States where she
teaches courses on Constitutional Law and Political Philosophy. She
can be contacted at rafia....@gmail.com
chhotemianinshallah
Saturday, October 17, 2009
83° | Fair
Letter to the editor:
Wrong-headed strategy in Afghanistan
Don Ellis, Henderson
Fri, Oct 16, 2009 (2:05 a.m.)
I became angry after reading the recent Associated Press article about
a father who says the death of his son (a Marine) shows the errors of
the U.S. military strategy in Afghanistan.
It is time to get rid of Gen. Stanley McChrystal and Adm. Mike Mullen,
chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and put in people with brass
somewhere other than on their hats and shoulders. They appear to be
more concerned about the media flak they may take if a few Afghan
citizens are killed than they are about setting a true strategic
defense for our forces.
Our leadership has caused our troops to be fearful of being prosecuted
if in war they may injure someone who may or may not be ready to kill
them. The military leadership also claims that over time, the Afghan
civilian population will become our ally and turn against the Taliban.
They are in no way fit to command if they believe that rhetoric.
Trickle down does not work in the economy and it sure won’t work in
war.
I was in the Korean War and witnessed leadership disasters. Look at
the Vietnam fiasco, too. It appears we are starting to see the same
foolish, protect-your-own-rear leadership. If we are in a war to win,
and civilians are protecting or supplying the enemy, then they are
fair game.
There also is the rhetoric that we must fight the Taliban to protect
our country because the real terrorists will take over that country
and do harm to the U.S. This is so stupid an argument that it should
be laughed at. We are a strong nation with great, intelligent people,
and we are capable of protecting ourselves on the home front with the
right leadership.
It appears that generals love large commands and war, and they will
sacrifice our troops for their place in history. Put these generals in
place of the actual fighting men and let us see how the strategy works
for them.
Let’s bring the troops home and then see what happens.
Discussion: 8 comments so far…
By SgtRock 10/16/09 at 2:19 a.m.
Hmmmm......are the Democratics flaking out, cracking up or what????
They are calling for Biden to resign.
They are calling for Obama to fire his generals that he hand-picked.
What next ----no public option -- -and the Democrats will go
beserk!!!!!
By Future 10/16/09 at 4:33 a.m.
Don Ellis says "Our leadership has caused our troops to be fearful of
being prosecuted if in war they may injure someone who may or may not
be ready to kill them."
Obama as commander in chief it the cause.
The people are against the Obama escalation for one of two reason,
either they are anti-war pacifiers or they cannot support more troops
in Afghanistan if Obama is commander in chief.
We have a weak administration with no stomach for defending America.
A war council of Joe Biden and General Jones.
Obama is subversive about the military and the CIA role - devastating
the effectiveness of both regardless of the ultimate consequences.
Obama cannot lead with a weak spirited attitude.
The troops are not allowed to go after the enemy when they hide in
buildings.
In addition to previously giving terrorist the Miranda rights,
hundreds of prisoners held by the U.S. military in Afghanistan will
for the first time have the right to challenge their indefinite
detention and call witnesses in their defense under a new review
system.
We thought it would be tough, but as long as Secretary Gate was in
place through this year we could be confident that Obama will allow
the conditions on the ground to be the basis of actions. The critical
time would be when in about 3 months when Gate leaves and who replaces
him.
No more. The Military is not running the war effort.
We are reminded of Bob Woodward in "The War Within" criticized the
president for failing to fulfill expectations.
"He had not rooted out terror wherever it existed," Woodward scolded.
"He had not achieved world peace. He had not attained victory in his
two wars."
So while Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the top U.S. and NATO commander
in Afghanistan and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff want more troops what will Obama do?
By fremmasmind 10/16/09 at 5:02 a.m.
First of all I am sorry for all of our soldiers who have given their
life for this fiasco. Remember war was never declared with Afghanistan
so we have an occupation there. The Taliban were ruling Afghanistan
until we chased them out after 9/11. This is all going on for american
oil companies to get a natural gas and crude oil pipelines from
Turkministan through Afghanistan thru Pakistan to the Arabian Sea. If
Obama goes for sending more troops he'll be sending them again and
again to protect the construction of these pipelines. We should never
have gone in to begin with. We should leave. Type in "Pipelines
through Aghanistan" in your internet address bar. Read the articles.
Inform yourselves.
By LarryVegas 10/16/09 at 7:52 a.m.
The far left is shoving Obama to pull of of Afghanistan and he is
looking for any reason that he thinks the American people will buy...
By Houstonjac 10/16/09 at 8:31 a.m.
The reports now leaking out of the administration's deliberations on
Afghanistan point to a half baked build up of troops far below the
40,000 additional troops requested by General Stanley McChrystal, and
supported by the top military command in D.C. Again, President Obama
is demonstrating a half hearted commitment to help seal the deal in
Afghanistan with a sufficient number of military assets to effect
change and lead to a real victory in Afghanistan and Pakistan. This is
a decision made by committee--an average of the minds of many--and
consequently this will be a "no win" decision. The real conclusion is
indeed how can we hold General McChrystal, and the top command
responsible for results by following half hearted means to meet the
difficult challenges of the Afghanistan war--we cannot!
This decision amounts to a tragic negligent commission of an act
destined to place the final results of the war in Afghanistan and the
lives of our military men and women in Afghanistan in extreme
jeopardy.
There is no other way to interpret the administration's response to
this matter than weak and inept. It is a "no win" decision aimed at
placating left leaning politicians and administration officials such
as National Security Advisor James Jones and Vice President Joe Biden.
Ultimately, President Obama is the one who must accept the full
responsibility for making a decision that will place Americans in
harms way, and lead to more casualties and failure in Afghanistan.
This is a shameful outcome for which the American people will suffer
the results.
By Burrittobandit2 10/16/09 at 8:50 a.m.
General Don Ellis, I'm not a real general I just play one in the Sun.
By POWERPLAY 10/16/09 at 9:54 a.m.
Hey Don: When the U.S. Government stops treating everybody else as an
equal then we will start winning wars again. You must believe that you
are superior to the enemy that you are shooting at and treat them like
2st class citizens. These is why we have not won a war since the end
of World War 2 back in 1945. And as long as we act like this (MR NICE
GUY) we will never win another one again. AND AMERICA'S ENEMYS KNOW
THIS AND ARE JUST GOING TO WAIT US OUT!
By Phargo 10/16/09 at 10:08 p.m.
The way to win in Afghanistan is to turn that country into glass. Just
nuke the chit out of them. Like we did in Japan in 1945. Arter we
nuked Japan they became civilized and became good friends of ours. We
killed all the Nazis and Germany became a friend. Everybody
appreciates a good ass whippin'
chhotemianinshallah
Canada denies paying Afghan Talibans for peace
www.chinaview.cn 2009-10-17 01:26:08
OTTAWA, Oct. 16 (Xinhua) -- Canadian officials on Friday denied
media reports that Canadian military troops in Afghanistan ever paid
off Taliban in exchange for not being attacked.
The denial came after the Agence France-Presse reported that
Canadian soldiers tried to buy off insurgents citing an unnamed
Western military source. A British newspaper also reported Friday that
Italian military and intelligence officials had handed over money to
the Taliban in exchange for peace.
Canadian Defense Minister Peter MacKay said Friday it was the
first time he was hearing of the report and described it as likely
"Taliban propaganda."
"I would rely on military officials on the ground to be aware if
such a thing were happening," MacKay said in the eastern city of St.
John's, according to the Canadian Press.
"I strongly suspect that this is more Taliban propaganda. Of
course, they're not bound by rules of engagement or simple things such
as truth."
A spokesperson from the Canadian troops in Kandahar said Friday
the report is "totally baseless."
Major Mario Couture told the Canadian Press that Canadian soldiers
do pay out sums to Afghans who agree to hand in their weapons, while
offering others paid work to encourage them to turn their backs on the
Taliban, but they have never tried to buy off Talibans.
Editor: Mu Xuequan
Sid Harth
Analysis: no end in sight for Pakistan's struggle against the Taliban
Pakistan's government and army are in a state of denial about the
extent of the Taliban's threat, despite nearly a dozen suicide attacks
in as many days.
By Ahmed Rashid
Published: 5:15PM BST 17 Oct 2009
Pakistan's army chief General Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani Photo: PA
Pakistan's militants are intent on nothing less than toppling the
government, assassinating the ruling establishment, imposing an
Islamic state and getting hold of Pakistan's nuclear weapons.
The attacks in advance of the army's ground offensive in South
Waziristan were widespread, taking place in three of the country's
four provinces and involving not just Taliban tribesmen from the
Pashtun ethnic group, but extremist Punjabi factions who were until
recently trained by the Interservices Intelligence (ISI) to fight
India in Kashmir.
Pakistan's Asif Zardari faces army rebellion over India detenteSeveral
of the militants killed had direct connections to the army or the ISI.
"Dr Usman", the leader of the group that attacked the army
headquarters in Rawalpindi last weekend and held 42 hostages for 22
hours inside the compound, was a member of the army's medical corps.
That attack and three subsequent co-ordinated strikes in Lahore on
Thursday on police training compounds and an intelligence office also
appeared to be inside jobs, as the terrorists knew the lay out and
security arrangements of all the complexes. The intelligence building
and one police compound had been attacked by militants in 2008 and
2009 and since then their security arrangements had been improved, but
still the attackers knew how to bypass security.
While the army is unwilling to admit what many Pakistanis now believe
- that there is penetration by extremist sympathisers within its ranks
- the government also refuses to admit that the largest province of
Punjab has become the major new recruiting ground for militants.
Hafez Saeed, the leader of Lashkar-e-Taiba whose militants carried out
the massacre in Mumbai India last year, was wanted by India and
Interpol and yet has been freed twice from jail in Punjab on account
of lack of evidence.
The brother of the national opposition leader Nawaz Sharif who governs
Punjab has rebuffed requests by the Americans, the British, India and
the federal government to tackle extremists in the poverty-stricken
south of the state where they are strongest.
Even though it has launched a major ground offensive in South
Waziristan, the federal government run by President Asif Zardari is
also in a state of denial about the threat now posed by a wide range
of groups allied to the Taliban.
More worrisome are the worsening relations between the army and the
government. Last week the army chief General Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani
blasted the government for agreeing to a $7.5 billion (£4.6 billion)
five-year aid package from the US, furious that it had agreed to
conditions which dared to insist on civilian control of the army,
democratic rule and continuity in the fight against extremism.
The army, with its deep tentacles in the Pakistani media and
opposition parties, whipped up a storm of public opinion against the
deal, with some accusing the government of treason.
Neither the army nor the politicians seemed to consider that the
country is virtually bankrupt and barely subsisting on International
Monetary Fund loans. Pakistan has been holding out a begging bowl for
the past year, while factories, farms and schools are shutting down
because of a chronic shortage of electric power, which is off in major
cities for up to 10 hours a day.
Meanwhile as the policy review over Afghanistan and Pakistan continues
in the White House, both the army and government are being directly
accused by US officials of continuing to harbour the Afghan Taliban
leadership and allowing them to pump in recruits, logistics and other
supplies into Afghanistan.
As long as British and Canadian troops in Helmand and Kandahar were
facing the impact and effects of the Taliban's safe sanctuaries in
Pakistan's Balochistan province, the former Bush administration was
quiet. But now that there are over 10,000 US marines in Helmand and
Kandahar who are taking casualties, the Obama administration has made
the sanctuary threat a major issue in its relations with Pakistan.
Moreover other Afghan Taliban commanders such as Jalaluddin Haqqani
based in Pakistan's tribal badlands in the north are also providing
recruits and logistics to their fighters in north-eastern Afghanistan,
where the US army recently lost eight soldiers in a single battle.
US relations with Pakistan's military remain fraught - everyone knows
that it is still the army and not the civilian government that calls
the shots - when it comes to policy towards India and Afghanistan.
International concern is mounting because these audacious attacks by
militants which penetrated the heavily secured army HQ in Rawalpindi,
could well mean that in the future militants could try the same
tactics to attack one of the sites that holds nuclear weapons. So far
that is considered unlikely as nobody knows where the weapons are
held, various parts of the nuclear bombs are kept in separate
locations and the sites are guarded by three army divisions.
The only optimism emanating from Islamabad is over the offensive in
South Waziristan where the leadership of the Pakistani Taliban is
holed up.
The key is to bring the US, Pakistan's army and its civilian
government on to one page with a common agenda to resist extremism.
But for now there is no end in sight for Pakistan's travails.
Sid Harth
Pakistan fights 'mother of all battles' with the Taliban
The tanks, armoured columns and helicopter gunships of Pakistan's army
stormed into South Waziristan, the global headquarters of al-Qaeda and
its Taliban allies.
By Saeed Shah in Lahore, Emal Khan in Peshawar and Dean Nelson
Published: 5:19PM BST 17 Oct 2009
Pakistan Army troops head for Bannu, a town on the edge of Waziristan
Photo: AP
Within hours of leaving their camps early on Saturday morning to fight
what is being hailed as the decisive battle in the war against terror,
12 soldiers had been killed in the first ferocious gunfights.
Pakistan's generals have called the offensive the "mother of all
battles" for the survival of a country under siege.
Taliban in Pakistan set fire to 100 Nato lorries bound for
AfghanistanThere were reports of Taliban compounds coming under aerial
bombardment from Pakistan gunships as troops moved out in three
columns from Razmak to the north, Jandola to the east and Shakai in
the west, and advanced on notorious Taliban target towns like Makeen
and Ladha.
The significance of Pakistan's army having Makeen in its sights will
not have been lost on Pakistan's president, Asif Zardari: the late
Taliban leader, Baitullah Mehsud, was in Makeen when he was allegedly
recorded on a telephone intercept claiming responsibility for the
assassination of Mr Zardari's wife, Benazir Bhutto, the former
Pakistan prime minister.
The remote, dusty town close to the Afghan border, had expected as
much. It has been the scene of American Predator drone attacks on
Taliban commanders, kidnappings of Pakistani troops, and fierce gun
battles between security forces and militants.
Thousands of residents had already fled the anticipated army assault,
but one who stayed behind described the first shots. "We heard sounds
of planes and helicopters early Saturday. Then we heard blasts. We are
also hearing gunshots and it seems the army is exchanging fire with
Taliban," said Ajmal Khan in a telephone interview. Those who stayed
behind were terrified but were confined to their homes because of an
army curfew, he said.
The long-awaited army ground offensive had been delayed for weeks as
army generals agonised over how the country would cope with the
militant backlash which would inevitably follow an all-out assault in
the Taliban's heartland.
The breakthrough came late on Friday night when, in a highly unusual
move, the Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Kiyani, summoned the all
the main opposition party leaders to a meeting at the home of the
prime minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani.
There, they were asked for united support for what would be one of the
army's most controversial operations: the use of overwhelming force
against their own people – many of them tribal militants who had once
been trained and encouraged by some of the leaders and generals now
moving against them.
But after one of the bloodiest weeks in recent history, in which
Taliban fighters had stormed the Army's Rawalpindi headquarters and
more than 160 people were killed by suicide bombers and commando-style
gunmen, the generals and the politicians had little choice.
It was the beginning of this month when Sailab Mehsud, a local
journalist covering Pakistan's dangerous tribal areas, got a call to
meet the Taliban's new "Ameer Sahib" (Mr Chief) Hakimullah Mehsud at a
secret location. He was immediately sure he was on to a scoop:
Hakimullah was supposed to be dead.
According to Pakistani security forces, the militants' notorious "boy
general" – he is believed to be 28 – had been killed in a bitter
succession battle with two rival Taliban commanders, Wali ur Rahman
and Qari Hussain.
His "death" had been a key factor in the army's preparations for a
final assault. The Taliban had been wiped out in the Swat Valley,
their South Waziristan leader, Baitullah Mehsud, had been killed in an
American drone attack in August, and now they were in disarray. Would
there ever be a better time to launch a massive offensive?
But when the handful of journalists summoned by the Taliban awoke
after an overnight stop deep in South Waziristan on Oct 4, following
an 11 hour mountain and forest drive, they was greeted by the smiling
face of the "dead" man, brandishing an AK47 and demonstrating his
prowess with a laptop.
Alongside Hakimullah stood the man who was supposed to have killed
him, Wali ur Rahman, and also the Taliban's master suicide bomb
trainer, Qari Hussain.
"We met them in a forest. Hakimullah was in the same jubilant mood. He
fired his AK-47 assault rifle, he showed us some rockets," said Sailab
Mehsud.
"Tell the Pakistani government that I'm alive and determined to take
severe revenge for Baitullah Mehsud's killing and the continued drone
strikes," Hakimullah, told the reporters, urging them to record his
message on film. "Both America and Pakistan will have to face the
consequences. We have respect for al-Qaeda and the jihadist
organisations - we are with them."
He pledged to fulfill his predecessor's mission to destroy the
Pakistani state for its "collaboration" with the West and drown the
country in blood.
Within hours of his interview being broadcast on October 5 - he had
insisted on a delay to give him time to disappear - the boy general
delivered on his threat, unleashing a wave of coordinated commando
raids and suicide bombings which shattered army claims of Taliban
disarray, and destroyed the notion that they would be easy prey in
their South Waziristan stronghold.
The attacks began when a suicide bomber dressed as a paramilitary
soldier tricked his way into a heavily guarded United Nations office
in Islamabad and blew himself up, killing five UN employees.
On Oct 9, a car bomb ripped through a busy market place in Peshawar,
the capital of the militancy-plagued North West Frontier Province,
killing 53.
The tipping point came last weekend when the Pakistani Taliban and its
extremist allies demonstrated the scale of their ambition: A team of
10 gunmen attacked the army's General Headquarters in Rawalpindi,
shooting their way through two gates to take 42 people hostage. In a
22-hour siege which was fought out live on television, 14 soldiers and
civilian employees were killed along with all but one of the
terrorists.
Such a brazen assault on the nerve centre of the country's military
establishment heightened fears around the world about the security of
the country's nuclear weapons if the army could be humiliated like
this in its own HQ.
Commander Hakimullah, however was only just hitting his stride. Last
Monday, a child suicide bomber, described as no older than 13,
targeted a military convoy moving through a bazaar in Shangla, close
to the Swat Valley in the North West Frontier Province. The blast
killed all six soldiers in an army vehicle and 35 shoppers on the
street. Another myth was exploded with the 41 victims: the idea that
the Taliban had been defeated in Swat.
On Thursday came three simultaneous gun and explosives assaults in
Pakistan's cultural capital, Lahore, in the heart of Punjab.
'Fidayeen' commandos struck at two police training centres and the
office of the Federal Investigation Agency, the national law
enforcement body. The so-called "swarm" attack was modelled on last
year's Nov 26 attack on Mumbai, and the death toll could have matched
it had it not been for a fight-back from local security forces which
limited the deaths to 28.
Meanwhile in Kohat, back in the NWFP, another suicide bomber killed 11
on the same day when he rammed his car into a police station. Later
that day, a car exploded outside a housing complex for government
employees in Peshawar, killing a six-year-old boy and wounding nine
others, including women and children.
On Friday the death toll climbed higher still when a car bomb exploded
as it drove into the front of Peshawar's police intelligence
headquarters. According to some reports - still unconfirmed - one of
the attackers was a woman who jumped from a motorbike, unbuttoned her
coat and detonated her suicide vest by a neighbouring government
housing complex, killing 13.
Half the police station being completely destroyed by the blast, and
the other half engulfed in flames while dazed police officers searched
for their missing comrades in the rubble.
Ordinary Pakistanis have been left bewildered, unable still to believe
that the danger comes from within the country.
"Only God knows where such people come from because I know that
Muslims cannot kill other Muslims," said Mohammad Yousaf, a 55-year-
old, who runs a tea shop near one of the police training schools in
Lahore and spent several hours hiding instead his store Thursday as
gunfire and explosions engulfed the area.
This latest Taliban onslaught, waged by leaders who were supposed to
be dead, has shocked a Pakistan which had been getting used to the
idea of militants beating a retreat and commanders being killed by
drones. But in just 10 days, Hakimullah dispelled the myth live on
Pakistan's 24-hour news channels.
In fact, despite its ominipresent ISI intelligence agency and vast
standing army, it was the Pakistan army that was in the greatest
disarray. Its headquarters had been left poorly guarded despite
several Taliban attacks on military centres in the last two years.
The militants anticipated similar chaos when they decided to attack
the same Lahore police training college they laid siege to earlier
this year.
The Army's top brass was reported to be furious not only with their
own failings but also with their political leaders. The country's
interior minister Rehman Malik was virtually banned from paying his
respects to the dead at the army's GHQ by generals who blamed him for
leaking their plans for the imminent South Waziristan offensive.
Local residents in the tribal agency told The Sunday Telegraph that
many Taliban fighters, including Uzbek militants, Arabs and Mehsud
tribesmen had slipped away into neighbouring Orakzai to dodge the army
onslaught and live to fight another day.
Some of their fighters however, stayed behind to put up a fight: an
army convoy was bombed at Razmak, several soldiers were killed and
wounded at Sarwakay and more were injured in a gun battle at Spinkay
Raghzay.
Local residents said the real fighting had yet to commence – most of
the Taliban's fighters had retreated into the mountains surrounding
Makeen and Ladha, where they are waiting to make their move.
For Pakistan's allies in the war on terror, while the offensive is a
welcome development, it may not necessarily help their struggtle
against the Taliban, across the border in Afghanistan. The army is
targeting Taliban fighters from the Mehsud tribe, which have allied
themselves with al-Qaeda in attacking Pakistan's military
institutions.
But its offensive will not target the notorious "Haqqani network", a
branch of the Taliban which has mounted some of the worst attacks on
Nato forces in Afghanistan. Nor will it take on other pro-Afghan
Taliban factions which support Mullah Omar's call for militants to
focus their attacks on Western forces rather than the Pakistani
military.
Pakistan's reluctance to target anti-Nato Taliban factions has caused
irritation in London and Washington, but has not appeased critics at
home.
"The Pakistan army is supporting the Americans, so they [the
jihadists] consider the Pakistan army to be like American and Nato
forces," said Khalid Khawaja, a former ISI officer who describes Osama
bin Laden as a friend.
"America is trying to destroy Pakistan as a state. You [Pakistan] have
to turn your back on America and they [the US] have to get out of
Afghanistan. Otherwise, this will never end."
His warning was backed by Taliban spokesman Azam Tariq who described
its attack on the army's GHQ as a "first small effort" and revealed
the involvement of a "Punjabi faction" in the attack.
Orders for similar attacks had been given to allies in Sindh and
Balochistan, he said. The Sunday Telegraph has learned that five of
the 10 gunmen who attacked the army GHQ were in fact members of Harkat-
ul-Jihad-al-Islami, one of a number of militant groups based in
southern Punjab which were once trained by the ISI intelligence
agency, but which is now beyond its control.
Analysts fear that even if the Pakistan army is able to douse the
flames in South Waziristan, the fire has already spread to the
country's Punjab and Sindh heartlands.
"The assumption that Pakistan has the means to fight its own Taliban
rebels and control Afghan Taliban, and Kashmiri militants, all at the
same time, has to re-examined," said one intelligence analyst.
Right now the time to analyse is a luxury neither the country's
political or military leaders can afford as they fight what they
regard a battle for Pakistan's survival.
When General Kayani called together members of the cabinet with the
country's main opposition leaders on the eve of the offensive on
Friday night, he warned them to brace themselves for an unprecedented
terrorist backlash and remain united throughout.
Finally, it is "them or us," the army has concluded. "If we don't take
the battle to them, they will bring the battle to us," one senior
officer explained.
Sid Harth
Pakistan offensive: troops meet heavy Taliban resistance
Pakistani troops are facing heavy resistance from the Taliban after
beginning an offensive in South Waziristan.
Published: 9:58AM BST 17 Oct 2009
Pakistan's army chief General Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani Photo: PA
Ground forces moved out of their bases in three different direction
towards territory dominated by fighters loyal to the warlord
Hakimullah Mehsud and his predecessor, Baitullah Mehsud, the notorious
Pakistani Taliban leader killed in a US missile attack and his
successor Hakimullah Mehsud.
Four soldiers were killed and 12 others wounded when their advance
from Shakai ran into resistance in Sharwangi, one of the first areas
of Mehsud's territory they reached, a local administration official
said. He added that the Taliban were using "heavy weapons" against the
army.
Taliban tribesmen pledge to wipe out al-Qaeda ally in PakistanAn army
official confirmed that soldiers had already met resistance within
hours of the start of the operation, which has been planned for months
and follows weeks of air and artillery strikes.
A senior government official said that the government and party
leaders gave the military full backing on Friday, vowing to weed out
militants and restore the writ of the state.
The army has said about 28,000 soldiers are in place to take on an
estimated 10,000 hard-core Taliban. About 500 commandos arrived in the
region on Friday, security officials said.
The army has stepped up its air and artillery attacks in recent days
to soften up the militants' defences while civilians have been
fleeing.
The militants have launched a series of brazen attacks in the past 12
days, striking at the United Nations, the army headquarters, police
and the general public, killing more than 150 people and apparently
trying to stave off the army assault.
The head of the army, General Ashfaq Kayani, briefed government and
party leaders on Friday and they all agreed that the militants posed a
serious threat to the sovereignty and integrity of the state.
"The national consensus is reaffirmed to establish and maintain the
writ of the state to weed out these elements," said a statement issued
by the office of Yusuf Raza Gilani, the prime minister.
More than 80,000 civilians had fled from South Waziristan in
anticipation of the offensive and the UN refugee agency said more
people had left this week.
Earlier, a government official said authorities had imposed a curfew
along roads in South Waziristan to protect forces moving towards
militant strongholds.
Sid Harth
Osama bin Laden: sunflower enthusiast with a passion for fast cars
Osama bin Laden's first wife has given a revealing insight into the
complex character of the man behind the world's most wanted
terrorist.
By Ben Farmer in Kabul
Published: 8:43PM BST 16 Oct 2009
Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden Photo: REUTERS
Najwa bin Laden has published a memoir claiming he was a contradiction
of personality traits.
She reveals he was a disciplinarian who would beat his children for
showing too many teeth when they smiled, but maintained a passion for
sunflowers and fast cars his first wife has said.
Osama bin Laden's son thought to have been killed in drone strikeHe
also banned the use of electrical appliances in his home and tried to
toughen up his sons by making them climb desert mountains without
water.
Details from the home life of the founder of al Qaeda have emerged in
the book Najwa has written with his fourth son Omar.
Growing Up Bin Laden charts his journey from teenage newly-wed to the
face of international terrorism, revealing along the way that he was
fond of mangos and the BBC.
Alongside details of his domestic life, the memoir portrays a man who
became increasingly severe as he was pursued by the Western powers.
Najwa married her cousin Bin Laden when he was 17 and she was 15 and
went on to bear him seven sons, including Omar, and four daughters.
He went on to take a total of six wives and kept them in seclusion in
spartan homes in Saudi Arabia and Sudan where they were not allowed to
use electrical appliances, according to the book to be published in
Britain in November.
"My father would not allow my mother to turn on the air conditioning
that the contractor had built into the apartment building," Omar said.
"Neither would he allow her to use the refrigerator that was standing
in the kitchen."
The young couple travelled to the United States soon after the 1979
Iranian revolution, where Bin Laden met Abdullah Azzam, the radical
Palestinian cleric regarded as his ideological mentor.
Soon after he began journeying to Pakistan to support the anti-Soviet
resistance. He would impress his sons with tales of battles against
the Soviet forces occupying Afghanistan during the 1980s, but became
increasingly strict on his return from the war.
However the book also reveals that Bin Laden, who is accused of
masterminding the September 11 attacks and remains at large eight
years later despite the world's biggest manhunt, had at least one gold-
coloured Mercedes and once bought a speedboat.
Najwa said: "Nothing gave him more satisfaction than having a full day
to take a speedy drive to the desert, where he would leave his
automobile while he took long walks."
Forced into exile in the Sudan for denouncing the Saudi royal family's
acceptance of US troops in the country, he tried to prepare his family
for hardship by making them sleep rough in the desert and climb
mountains.
However in lighter moments his sons admired his horsemanship and he
liked to show off his mathematical ability by challenging people to
beat his arithmetic with a calculator.
His son said: "My father was so well known for the skill that there
were times when men would come to our home and ask him to match his
wits against a calculator.
His wife added: "Osama's favourite undertaking was working the land,
growing the best corn and the biggest sunflowers."
Sid Harth
Taliban documents reveal scale of operations in Pakistan
Taliban maps, manuals and propaganda have been discovered at training
camps in Pakistan showing the sophistication of the insurgent's
operations in the country's tribal areas.
By Ben Farmer in Kabul
Published: 6:39PM GMT 11 Nov 2008
The documents, discovered in a tunnel complex in the Bajaur tribal
agency, contain precise, coded maps of the nearby territory pointing
out weapons caches and rendezvous points in an area where hundreds
have died in fighting in the past three months.
Pakistani commanders said the tunnels in a Taliban stronghold also
contained guerrilla training manuals, jihadist propaganda, bomb-making
instructions and students' notes, suggesting the insurgents used the
battleground near the Afghan border to train fighters.
Asylum seekers compiled 'hit list' for Pakistan revolution from
London"They were training people here," said Colonel Javed Baluch in
an interview with the Times. "This was one of their centres. There
were students here taking notes on bomb-making and guerrilla warfare.
They were well trained and well organised."
Britain and America have claimed terrorists including al-Qaeda
operatives have found a safe haven in Pakistan's Federally
Administered Tribal Areas (Fata), where they plan and train for
attacks around the world.
They also believe that Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's deputy,
has been in Bajaur.
In August, Pakistan's army launched an offensive into the agency
hoping to break the back of the country's Taliban insurgency after
large numbers of attacks on Pakistani security forces.
The area has seen fierce fighting in the past three months as soldiers
backed by helicopter gunships and heavy artillery have battled
fighters dug into from well-prepared tunnel complexes and strongly
defended mountain villages.
More than 400 soldiers have been killed or wounded since August while
thousands of civilians have fled the fighting. The army says it has
killed more than 1,500 militants in the offensive including Uzbek,
Chechen and Turkmen foreign fighters.
bademiyansubhanallah
Kerry against Afghan troop build-up
Obama is weighing a request for tens of thousands more troops for
Afghanistan [AFP]
John Kerry, the US senate's foreign relations committee chairman, has
said it would be "irresponsible" to send more US troops to
Afghanistan.
Kerry's comments on Saturday came as a deepening election crisis that
has placed the Kabul government's legitimacy at stake continues.
"It would be entirely irresponsible for the president of the United
States to commit more troops to this country, when we don't even have
an election finished and know who the president is and what kind of
government we're working in, with," said Kerry.
"When our own commanding general tells us that a critical component of
achieving our mission here is, in fact, good governance, and we're
living with a government that we know has to change and provide it,
how could the president responsibly say, 'Oh, they asked for more,
sure - here they are'?"
The senator had travelled to Afghanistan to meet General Stanley
McChrystal, the chief US and Nato commander who has recommended a
radical change in US strategy there.
Karzai besieged
Before Saturday's comments, Kerry had said to to McChrystal's
recommendation: "I don't know the answer to that question ... I am
very wary of it because of past experience and because of some of the
challenges that I see."
He said neither of the two extremes - a nationwide counterinsurgency
and nation-building effort in Afghanistan nor "walking away from the
place" - were do-able.
Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, has been plagued by uncertainty
and questions of legitimacy after allegations of fraud in the August
elections, whose preliminary results put him on top.
Speaking to CBS television, Kerry said he did not see how Obama "can
make a decision about the committing of our additional forces, or even
the further fulfillment of our mission that's here today, without an
adequate government in place or knowledge about what that government's
going to be".
He said it was time for Karzai to "step up" and explain how they could
be a viable partner in the US and Nato-led mission to rout out Taliban
fighters and build a stable Afghanistan eight years into the war.
Al-Qaeda threat
"The key in Afghanistan is we have got to figure out what is
achievable, measured against the legitimate interests of the US,
primary among which is al-Qaeda," Kerry said.
"In Afghanistan itself we have to resolve the question of whether the
Taliban are per se a threat to us."
In talks last Wednesday between Barack Obama, the US president, and
his top advisers on a new strategy for Afghanistan, some aides
emphasised the main threat to US interests was al-Qaeda, not the
Taliban.
The administration's analysis of the threat posed by the Taliban could
play a role in whether Obama accepts part or all of McChrystal's
request for extra troops, beyond the 68,000 he has already approved
for this year.
bademiyansubhanallah
Barack Obama, the US president, has been weighing his options on the
way forward in the Afghan war with his national security council for
weeks.
Leaks from the discussions show the focus is mainly on a decision
concerning the deployment of thousands more US troops.
But as Al Jazeera's Nick Spicer reports, Obama's choice could have
consequences well beyond Afghanistan's borders.
bademiyansubhanallah
Pakistan army strikes Taliban bases
Thousands of people are reported to have fled in the run-up to the
South Waziristan offensive [Reuters]
The Pakistani military says it has seized Taliban bases during the
first day of a ground offensive in South Waziristan.
At least five soldiers and 11 fighters were killed in the fighting,
Pakistani officials said on Sunday.
As many as 150,000 civilians have left the area in recent months after
the army made clear it was planning an assault.
But there are perhaps as many as 350,000 still in the region.
Security forces captured a Taliban stronghold at Spinkai Raghzai on
Saturday after the fighters withdrew from their fortifications and
took refuge in nearby mountains, officials said.
Earlier, the officials reported that gun battles were taking place
outside Spinkai Raghzai as well as Kalkala and Sharwangai.
Intelligence officials said the ground troops were advancing on two
flanks and a northern front of a central part of South Waziristan
controlled by the Mehsuds.
The areas being surrounded include the Taliban bases of Ladha and
Makeen, the officials said.
Army assessment
The army says about 28,000 soldiers are battling an estimated 10,000
Taliban fighters, including about 1,000 Uzbeks and some Arab al-Qaeda
members.
Tariq Hayat, the law and order secretary for Pakistan's Federally
Administered Tribal Areas, of which South Waziristan is part, said
that despite South Waziristan's rugged terrain, he expected the
operation to be successful.
"A lot of planning has gone into it," he told Al Jazeera from
Peshawar.
"This offensive is against people who have chosen to take up arms
against Pakistan, who have chosen to fight against Pakistani troops
and target innocent Pakistani civilians ... however, innocent people
have nothing to fear from this operation."
The Pakistani offensive had been much talked about. It comes after a
series of bomb attacks across the country over the past two weeks that
have killed more than 170 people.
In the latest attack, at least 11 people died in two explosions near a
police office in the northwestern city of Peshawar on Friday.
Humanitarian situation
People are reported to be fleeing from the Shakoi and Zangra areas,
with many moving through North Waziristan where a makeshift camp has
been set up at Mir Ali.
Wolfgang Herbinger, the country director for the World Food Programme,
based in Islamabad, the Pakistani capital, said his organisation had
readied itself for the exodus from the fighting.
"We have food stocks in nearby areas," he told Al Jazeera.
"As a United Nations organisation, we have been preparing for quite
some time. We have had to anticipate in different parts of the
country, including South Waziristan, that people will be on the move."
For weeks the army has been using air and artillery attacks on Taliban
strongholds in South Waziristan and a curfew was put in place on
Saturday.
Facts: South Waziristan
The district in the Federally Administered Tribal Area (FATA) borders
Afghanistan, North Waziristan, the North-West Frontier Province and
Baluchistan
It has a population of about 500,000 people, mostly tribal Pashtuns,
a religiously conservative group that is known for being hostile to
outside interference
The Pakistani Taliban holds territory mainly in the west-central
region of South Waziristan, on the northern border with North
Waziristan, towards the eastern town of Jandola and on the border with
the North-West Frontier Province
The Pakistani Taliban's bastion is not on the South Waziristan-Afghan
border
The army has launched offensives in South Waziristan before,
initially in 2004 when it suffered heavy losses before signing a peace
pact
Wajid Shamsul Hasan, Pakistan's high commissioner to the UK, said the
offensive is difficult because the attacks are sporadic and spread
out.
"It's difficult to fight them everywhere," he told Al Jazeera.
"That's why we were carrying out a softening operation through air
raids and bombings. That's what we have been doing for the last four
or five weeks.
"Now we think we are in a position to strike militarily on the ground
in the spots we have been firing and mark them [Taliban] for attack.
So I think we will be able to achieve our objective."
Imran Khan, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Islamabad, said: "South
Waziristan is where Hakimullah Mehsud, the leader of the Pakistani
Taliban, is based.
"And the police say that the carnage we have seen over the last 12
days is being planned from South Waziristan.
"So this is a crucial operation to decapitate the head of the senior
Pakistani Taliban leadership ... But there is always the problem that
if you squeeze the Taliban in one area, they pop up in another."
Afghan connection
The US hopes that a Pakistani army operation in South Waziristan will
help break much of the opposition network that threatens both Pakistan
and American troops across the border in Afghanistan.
However, Khalid Rahman, the director of the Institute of Policy
Studies in Islamabad, said that the cause of the violence in Pakistan
was the US war on the Taliban in Afghanistan, and that the Afghan
conflict needs to be addressed for long-term success.
"The whole conflict has extended to Waziristan and then to some of the
settled areas of Pakistan," he said.
"It is certainly the Pakistani government's responsibility to take
care of things within Pakistan."
Rahman said that the recent attacks had created a "favourable
environment" for the military's assault on South Waziristan, but
warned: "That is not going to last. Because the cause is Afghanistan
and that remains."
bademiyansubhanallah
After months of Taliban attacks on civilians and government targets,
Pakistan's military has launched a fresh offensive against the group's
fighters in South Waziristan.
The offensive includes 28,000 troops whose aim is to target the
heartland of the Pakistani Taliban, the territory in South Waziristan
ruled by Hakimullah Mehsud, the group's leader.
But the campaign has also sparked a mass exodus of civilians, with
estimates of around 150,000 people fleeing the volatile zone to seek
refuge elsewhere.
Imran Khan reports from Islamabad, Pakistan's capital.
bademiyansubhanallah
News CENTRAL/S. ASIA
Video: Security crisis in Pakistan
As the military prepares to move in on the Taliban heartland in South
Waziristan, it has been confronted by a series of bold attacks claimed
by the group.
Four deadly assaults in just eight days, including an attack inside
the army headquarters in Rawalpindi, have exposed Pakistan's
increasingly fragile security situation.
As Al Jazeera's Kamal Hyder reports from Rawalpindi, the increased
violence is raising questions about the country's ability to confront
the threat within its own borders.
bademiyansubhanallah
News CENTRAL/S. ASIA
Video: Pakistan army HQ attacked
Armed men wearing army uniforms have attacked the Pakistani army's
headquarters in the garrison city of Rawalpindi close to the capital,
Islamabad.
Four gunmen and six soldiers were killed in the fierce gun battle that
followed.
Al Jazeera's Zeina Awad reports.
bademiyansubhanallah
Programmes WITNESS
Witness: Pakistan in crisis
As the crisis in Pakistan's North West Frontier Province worsens, Al
Jazeera's Rageh Omaar investigates Pakistan's role in the "war on
terror".
Rageh revisits the scene of the military assault on the Red Mosque,
which he witnessed in July 2007, he speaks to Pakistan's president and
to opposition leaders, and he discovers the cost of the 'war on
terror' for Pakistan.
The films provide an extraordinary insight into the unfolding crisis
and reveal the issues at the root of it.
Rageh Omaar travels from the capital, Islamabad, to the tribal
heartlands to chart the spread of suicide bombings and the escalation
of violence that has turned Pakistan into a war zone.
Pakistan's War: The Battle Within
Rageh and his team had been the last television crew inside the Red
Mosque before the siege began in July 2007.
He filmed the last interview with Abdul Rashid Ghazi, the leading
cleric at the mosque, before his death.
In this film, Rageh revisits the Red Mosque and learns that the
showdown there marked a turning-point in Pakistan's war with the
insurgents - the moment when the Taliban-backed insurgency moved from
the tribal areas on the border with Afghanistan to the heart of the
capital, sparking an ongoing wave of violence inside Pakistan.
Al Jazeera speaks to Asif Ali Zardari, the Pakistani president, who
denies that he is fighting a proxy war for the West in the 'war on
terror'.
Instead, Zardari argues that his determination to defeat the
insurgents and bring democracy to the tribal areas of Pakistan is part
of a comprehensive home-grown programme to strengthen legitimate
institutions, build state capacity and create a new relationship
between the government and the army.
"I will take the writ of law to the ends of the last border post of
Pakistan," pledges Zardari.
"That means there will be police stations, there will be judges, there
will be civil society and civil law. We have to make people understand
that they cannot challenge the writ of the state and they cannot
blackmail the world into listening to their point."
Pakistan's War: On the Front Line
Rageh Omaar joins the Pakistani army in their full-scale military
offensive against fighters on the frontier with Afghanistan.
In Bajaur province - where Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda's second in
command, is believed to be hiding - Rageh witnesses a decisive moment
in the army's campaign.
He follows infantry from house to house in their advance on the
Taliban stronghold of Loe Sam and is forced to retreat when the army
unit he is filming comes under fire from Taliban fighters.
He speaks to Major General Janjua, who says: "We are suffering the
maximum, we are contributing the maximum ... we are sacrificing for
the sake of the world."
Al Jazeera also talks to the insurgents who oppose Zardari's ambition
to bring democracy to the tribal areas and instead are fighting for
the imposition of Islamic law inside Pakistan.
Inside the Red Mosque
In the days leading up to the storming of the Red Mosque in July 2007,
Rageh Omaar gained exclusive access to the site.
He and his team were the last TV crew inside the mosque before the
siege began and filmed the last interview with Abdul Rashid Ghazi, one
of the mosque's leaders, before his death.
The film also offers unique access to the Jamia Hafsa madrasa, the
religious seminary for women attached to the Red Mosque.
Two days into the filming, clashes erupted at the mosque between
students and security forces. A week later, an estimated 100 people
were dead.
Across the Border
Across the Border is the extraordinary account of Rageh Omaar's
journey to Peshawar in northern Pakistan.
He meets John Butt, a journalist who runs a local radio service with a
difference - it broadcasts to the tribal areas on both sides of the
Pakistan-Afghan border, where people have suffered through years of
bloodshed and successive occupations and where thousands have been
displaced as refugees.
But this is no ordinary journalism project. The stories are selected
to give a voice to the grassroots and are aimed at helping conflict
resolution.
Rageh follows a reporter on the road, and then travels with John to
see the tiny Radio Khyber at work trying to persuade two rival Sunni
factions, traditional and reformist, to sit together for a broadcast
discussion.
Power Play in Pakistan
Rageh Omaar and Farah Durrani follow the twists and turns of events in
Pakistan, with extraordinary access to Pervez Musharraf, the former
Pakistani president, as he handed over command of the army to General
Ashfaq Kayani.
Against the backdrop of an increasingly isolated military government,
Rageh and Farah follow the increasing numbers of lawyers and judiciary
who lead a grassroots opposition against what they describe as a
military dictatorship.
In this film, Rageh speaks to key political figures in the opposition
movement, including the late Benazir Bhutto and Imran Khan, who was
released from a spell in prison during the recent period of emergency
rule imposed by Musharraf.
bademiyansubhanallah
Pakistan's War: The Battle Within - 28 Dec 08 - Part 2
9:52
Added: 9 months ago
From: AlJazeeraEnglish
Views: 43,950
All Comments (506 total)
ilikeicecreamandcake (9 months ago)
come on pakis, how long will you blame mossad, RAW and CIA for
everything?
wake up or these people will hijack your country.
lproth (9 months ago)
Your little boy hero's Islam. You should be so proud!
oceanbound222 (9 months ago)
Pakistan is being destabalized by the US/India/Izrael. The 3 r
working together to keep a Muslim nation from being strong and
nuclear
knnan (9 months ago)
It is not to destabilise Pakistan, but to get those behind
destabilising a nation and innocent people all over. The day Pakistan
gets serious to peg the terror mongers, it will be a nation worth its
name !
786lalaa (9 months ago)
pakistan is a shit hole it funds terrorism and all the talk about
fighting terrorism is just a front to show the world. pakistan is
fighting india over kashmir not letting the elections happen
peacfully and ass licking US becuase they need american dollers.
samprasant (9 months ago)
come on pakis saudi is slave of americans , egypt is friendly with
americans , what else do u want
samprasant (9 months ago)
did india acted as USA client state ? did india gives transit
fascility to USA to kill pakistanis ? did indian drones kill
thousands people in pakistan ? did india uses Helicaptor or artilary
to kill people in SWAT ? one hand you are angry with america other
hand you need money from them and u are such country you sell your
slef , atleast i am proud of my country we do not sell our self to
some foreign country and do not beg money allha ki nam pe $1 billion
de de baba , nehi to country bankrupt
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Haha! Ever read any other news other than Indian hogwash? India
happily offered U.S basis & facilities back in 2001; U.S declined
since Pakistan was much closer to Afg. India used its army, artillery
& airforce to kill its own citizens at Golden Temple [1984]. But u've
already sold urself idiot. U didnt even need money, dream of U.S
alliance made India vote against long-time ally Iran at UNSC, Russia
gave Pakistan military equipment cuz India changed beds & traded
partner. Quit living in denial
littlepakistan (6 months ago)
Funny guy.You attacked afghanistan for usa and you are leading a war
there;You get money from usa everytime you are begging. You killed
your people in balochistan and evry where and your peple are killing
their own leader(benazir,bhuttonzia..)
mystz1 (6 months ago)
Did you ever read a history book in school? I guess not. Pakistan
didnt attack Afghanistan. Pakistan helped US & Saudi Arabia to finance
mujahideen forces against Soviet Red Army that was occupying
Afghanistan..
How old are you really? 3?
littlepakistan (6 months ago)
are you draming.pakis army is battling afghan in borders area. Your
minister recognize thatb borders were ill defined(i do not remenber
the exact word).
mystz1 (6 months ago)
Kid, go play your xbox.. World politics is not for the feeble minded
like yourself. Your claims are ludicrous..
littlepakistan (6 months ago)
do not invent histories and distort facts. These areas you called
pakiatan are porous and the people all;over the borders are the
same.
mystz1 (5 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply Like I
said.. go back to your xbox.. world politics is not for you.
littlepakistan (6 months ago)
pakistan is destabilizing itself with nonsense policy and corrupt
leaders.
Jab9ber9 (9 months ago)
I really dont know what to say about Muslin countries, I have a lot of
friends that are Muslin, but why are the so violent ? They want to
have their own law in any country that they take up residence in, the
UN is telling people that they cant critize muslin but the facts are
there that Muslins are the most violent people on earth for what
RELIGION! I wonder when poeple in this world will realize that we're
all human and comes from the same place, Religion is the Axis of man's
EVIL " WAR"
Edinaldo08 (9 months ago)
It was communism before and separatism vs unionism before that. It was
monarchy vs republic and colonies vs empires before. It was Egipcians
vs Hatti long ago. etc.
Forget what you saw in the last 20 years on TV, learn some history. It
is biased too but not so much as the names involved are already dead.
If you are sicere you will understand better than that.
Jab9ber9 (9 months ago)
What will happen, you will continue killing your fellow country men
and women if they dont see things your way. I wish you savage all the
best in you iradication of your countries people. I THOUGHT THAT
MUSLINS ARE PEACEFUL PEOPLE, but from what I have learn over the past
20 years it is the other way around.
mantor420 (9 months ago)
bhencod....baitula masud!!!
Ahmed127 (9 months ago)
go and look at all the oppression that is a result of YOUR nations -
the vast majority of these actions are a REACTIOn and not ACTIon - IE
RESPONSE
Ahmed127 (9 months ago)
you dont know anything going on in the Muslim world so just keep your
comments to yourself.
knnan (9 months ago)
Painful video.....extremely sad that young kids are being used to
cater the whims and fancies of the agenda of the perverted !! Time
Pakistan realises it because these very people will destroy Pakistan
and does not have to be a CIA/Mossad/RAW....wake good people of
Pakistan !!
StackMo1 (9 months ago)
Truly sad Bhutto died. She was genuinely the voice of reason and a
force for good for her own country.
pakhtunzmaray (9 months ago)
she was the primer minister twice she did not deliver she robbed the
state she deserved worse death then what she got acording to me
hasankhalid (9 months ago) Show
i dont no if she deserved to die like that but i completely agree
with you on that she robbed the nation badly, and her husband was in
on it
littlepakistan (6 months ago)
all politicians in the subcontinent are robbers.
Martintfre (9 months ago)
Teaching young boys how to murder...
The teachers are wrong. In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the
Merciful.
nipomocarlos84 (9 months ago)
May Allah the moon god and Saint Muhammad th sun god save those kids
NewChristianSoldiers (9 months ago)
spoke with my friend in Israel who is in politics and he said the
Israeli military will bomb IRAN's nuclear facilities and Muslim Temple
Mount when Hezbolla fights. News reporting Irans link to funding HAMAS
to build U.S. support. Once Irans nuclear facilities are destroyed
they will move the military into Palestine to take out Hamas
supporters. He said that there will be tens of thousands of Hamas
killed but Hamas will be no more. Iran will be invaded by Egypt &
others if they retaliate. 89b
pakhtunzmaray (9 months ago)
dream on shit soldier
zirca69 (9 months ago)
omigod, terrorists are having 10 yr old kid shoot a man publicly and
cutting throat..wow who the fuck is this Mohammed Prophet..who the
hell are these people playing with child's innocence..pakistan is a
horrific place and looks very complex..unless they become economic
power nothing will improve..and these cult will take advantage of poor
families
chatiii (9 months ago)
WOW! somebody please issue this person a medal of honour for his some
what confusing, but thoughtful words. what a minute...did you just say
if pakistan was an economic power, things will improve? you inbred son
of a bitch, if pakistan became a superpower, your un educated
american ass will get whiped off the map along with your isreali
counterparts. that is why america strives to keep the balance of power
in their favour. in doing so, atrocities they carry out around the
world will go unnoticed
bilal8882000 (9 months ago)
Prophet Muhammad never preached killing of innocent people..Is is
just like blaming Christianity for what Hitler did..these talibans and
bait ul Allah masood are bastards who just use the name of Islam to
carry out their heinous plots..they are terrorists
filistin4life (9 months ago)
And then what is the Pakistani Army who is killing Muslims to please
America?? These people actions are a response to killing Muslims,
Pakistani Army destroys a Masjid kills hundreds of Worshippers inside
in the Red Mosque and you expect true muslims to say nothing?
abcw828 (9 months ago)
Mosque people were assholes,they were not true Muslims
filistin4life (9 months ago)
May Allah (swt) guide you! THese are people who are worshipping Allah
(swt) in a Masjid and you call them Assholes?? May Allah (swt) give
you what you deserve.
brushoff098 (9 months ago)
i truly dont beleive you can worship God in a masjid filled with
people who want to harm others and kill them. its just morally wrong.
filistin4life (9 months ago)
Bro you are making it seem as if the Muslims are the aggressors. When
will you wake up, this fight is being forced upon us. Look over the
world and open your eyes, look at all the muslims being killed in
Kashmir, Chechen, bosnia, kosovo, palestine, iraq, afghanistan,
pakistan, lebanon, etc. THis is a fight forced on us, why do you think
those people are Angry in the Mosque?? It is because the pakistani
govt is fighting America's War killing Muslims to please America!
Allah Guide you.
itzsalah (9 months ago)
u dont kill innocent muslims. thats not jihad, if they want to jahid
then they must go to iraq, palestine, or palestine.
brushoff098 (9 months ago)
i truly understand you. bu we muslims under occupation and aggression
need to use our god given intelligence. WE CAN NOT FIGHT AN ENEMY
WITH THIS MUCH EVIL AND SUPPORT. chechnya against russia. palestine
agaainst israel. iraq/afghanistan against USA.yes, god is on our side.
but we have tried using aggression, and even our own god given bodies
against their forces. WHAT HAVE WE ACHIEVED BUT GREATER DEATH AND
MISERY FOR OUR PEOPLE.
brushoff098 (9 months ago)
its time to unite, and use our intelligence. not weapons. our people
have suffered to much.
MetalHeart8787 (9 months ago)
They say Muslims are "Brothers" But yet they Kill alot of Muslims who
dont follow them. & then others Wonder WHY Muslims have a BAD
Reputation in the World. I give credit to all the muslim who speak out
against Terrorism
Type59 (9 months ago)
how old is documentry? With the operations in bajaur and mohammed
tribal areas, US praised for fall in violence, late 2008.
scotishjohn (9 months ago)
same old shit woolworths should have sold the jackets and certificates
and it would not went under
anthony6661 (9 months ago)
Three-quarters of the most serious terror plots being investigated by
UK authorities have links to Pakistan, UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown
has said.
leobird1975 (9 months ago)
bait ul allah???? must be bastard in history
4586805 (9 months ago)
Brain washed people..allah helps you guys...Red-mosque was occupied by
terrorists with arms, they were not worshiping..stop this nonsense,
Pakistan army is doing what they should be doing...all nation support
them and respect their war on terror. Inshallah we will eliminate
these jihadis from our country..not for america but for our future.
londonpakisoldier (9 months ago)
you are right to a certain extent, but look what the pakistani army
has been doing in waziristan since 2006. they have been attacking the
waziri people under american orders just so that america can build
their little pipeline through that part of pakistan, afghanistan and
iran towards iraq. the waziri fighters defended their people and land
against the army, surely you're not calling tjem terrorists?
88a (9 months ago)
Excellant Documentary Aljeezeera
4586805 (9 months ago)
People in red mosque were trying to enforce sharia in pakistan, they
were marching on streets and forcing people to shut their music
business, who were they? why they were asking for a safe passage to
leave mosque then?? they were well armed and everyone can see if they
had only 11 guns as they claimed this fight would have been over in
couple of hours. Red-mosque operation had no link with was in afghan.
They are killing innocent pakistanis in bomb blasts...i have got no
sympathy for them.
badmash420 (9 months ago)
4586805... you or obviousley educated and well versed & I dont wish to
insult your intelligence! just think about it, what did the Pakistani
Army acheive in doing what they did! Peace or more Chaos! death brings
more death! You dont need to be brain surgeon to work that 1 out my
friend! so what ever you say please dont justify killing!
badmash420 (9 months ago)
I dont agree with the approach these people took! but you only have
look at the corruption, bribery, prostitution, child molestation that
takes place in Pakistan and then you will understand that these people
were making a desperate attempt for change. If you lived in this kind
of society & ur daughters, mothers, children were exposed to this kind
of filth then maybe... just maybe you will understand.. oh another
thing! if these were not muslims they would have been seen as
revolutionary heros!
sakuraupadhyaya (9 months ago)
Good to see Pakistan getting fucked by the terrorists it created to
kill Indians. May Taliban burn Pakistan
llllllrrrrrr (9 months ago)
Yeah you aids krishnafucker, your Country is full of aids
mystz1 (9 months ago)
It is now for International Community, especially the nations behind
NATO to stop whining and falling prey to propaganda against Pakistan
launched by countries like India who have their own ulterior hegemonic
designs in the South Asian region.
International Community has failed Pakistan in its fight against
terror. Pakistanis are laying down their lives to safeguard the lives
of Americans, Canadians British, French, Spanish, Germans, Polish; its
time for these countries to stand WITH Pakistan.
xphaysalx (9 months ago)
bhen chod kay bachay. Apni he logo say lar rahi hai apni army sirf
dollars kay liyey.
paipiski (9 months ago)
Mullahs gone wild!
grimaces (9 months ago)
after watching this I'm impressed by the massive sacrifices made by
ordinary Pak soldiers. I hope that The Pak PM is not full of empty
rhetoric. That army General guy in the Waziristan should be honoured
witha congressional medal not treated with suspicion by a bunch of
thankless yanks. He is doing more to protect America than their half-
wit predident.
videosirish (9 months ago)
i am an indian and hindu. pakistan in these videos looks so much
similar (sans the violence) to india. Our differences are by issues
but not between the people themselves.
Sub40H (9 months ago)
What are you talking about? Nobody in the world teaches children how
to cut throats. Not in India.
videosirish (9 months ago)
"sans" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sub40H (9 months ago)
Another point is: people in India are not religious fanatics. They
have posters of Imran Khan or Adnan Sami hanging on their walls, and
in Pakistan little children shout about "Jung" with India and flying
the Pak flag on the Red Fort! Pakistan cannot be compared to India in
any way. Friendship with a snake is not an option.
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Sure, they must've taught u this at the local Hindutva-fascist run
shaka I believe where RSS/VHP Brahman-terrorists run 45,000 across
India brainwashing & training millions of Hindu kids from childhood to
hate Muslims, Pakistan & even Christians. They're brainwashing plays
out fair n square in Gujarat riots, Babri Mosque demolition,
Christian massacres frm Indian North-East, etc. Kiddo, its us
Pakistanis who dont befriend snakes who hide behind the garb of
'democracy'.
Sub40H (9 months ago)
Hindu brainwash? Hindu terrorist? Where did you get that news? Zaid
Hamid? Quran?
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Here u go ignorant runt, enjoy ur blissful ignorance:
Hindu Terrorism Grips India:
news(dot)bbc(dot)co(dot)uk/2/h i/south_ asia/7739541(dot)stm
Sub40H (9 months ago)
Thats fake Western propaganda. Real Hinduism is about forgiving, mercy
and kindness. If there are any terrorists they cannot be Hindus.
moonmeinle (9 months ago)
Then same can be said of Islamic terrorists. I could say that islam
teaches peace and all. But try and accept the reality that religion
can be perverted to ones needs.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
Islam also preaches peace. But the truth is, there are extremists in
both communities. I mean come on. Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal..they kill
muslims, christians, attack "westernized-hindus"...they are hindus,
and i wud definitely call them terrorists.
Sub40H (8 months ago)
Yeah I dont know why these Hindus have to copy the Muslims, Hindus
were soft, peace loving, flexible and merged easily with other
cultures. They lost a lot of wars to Christians & Muslims because of
this nature.
Somehow lately, a part of the Hindus feel that they have to pretend to
be strong and violent just as Pakistan & Zaid Hamid does. And they are
having a lot of young followers too. Maybe they all will convert to
Islam soon.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
please don't badmouth Islam. I myself am a Muslim and am proud of it.
Most of us (especially us Indian muslims) are extremely peaceful. Even
our religious leaders are extremely understanding. During Eid &
Diwali, the muslim leaders told muslims not to eat cow, to respect the
hindus and their religious holiday.
unfortunately it is the hindu groups in our country that are a bit
messed up in the head. they dont even let the hindus live in peace
nowadays.
Sub40H (8 months ago)
I already told you those Hindus are copying the Muslims in Pakistan
(very loud voice but very little courage except when part of a mob).
Original Hindu nature is soft and malleable.
I have no problem with Indian Muslims who are peaceful (though your
prophet preached otherwise), except a few who raise the Pakistani flag
during a cricket match or copy the Arabian dress code.
(Heavy beard or black niqab in a hot and humid country? Come on!)
mystz1 (8 months ago)
time for Hindus to go back to their effeminate ways I believe.. ur
ignorance and Islamophobic comments are hilarious kiddo!
Sub40H (8 months ago)
Yes all my comments are hilarious to pakis, they laugh a lot but
cannot stop replying. They take me very seriously though I am so
ignorant and hilarious.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
If u didn't know or just suffered a delusional lapse; YOU are on a
Pakistani video barking away kiddo. You need to check-in at the local
mental facility to treat your halllucinations and obession with
Pakistan-related videos.
Sub40H (8 months ago) Comment removed by author
Sub40H (8 months ago)
NOT a Pakistani video kiddo. Its a Qatari video on how USA is fucking
Pakistan's ass. Drop that Quran and concentrate on the video kid!
mystz1 (8 months ago)
The video is about Pakistan and its battle with militants; you need
to drop ur Penthouse magazine n re-educate urself 5yr old retard.
Sub40H (8 months ago)
Looks like you have the nature of calling people "kiddo" kiddo! Makes
you feels smart, aint it?
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
i have never seen an indian muslim hoist the pakistani flag. i have
herd about it a few times, but will not believe it until i see it with
my own eyes.
but if any indian muslim DOES do that, then he is a traitor. he is not
indian. he doesnt deserve to be indian.
i'll agree with you that the hindu extremists are cowards. look at
raj thackeray who went into hiding during 26/11.
Sub40H (8 months ago)
@mehwish92: It was a common practice in the 70's and early 80's,
especially during a test cricket match. After that they do not do it
openly to avoid criticism.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
we come from a secular country (on paper atleast).we all complain
about how it is "pseudo-secular". hindus say congress is too pro-
muslim and anti-hindu. muslims say bjp is too anti-muslim...how about
WE common indian people atleast treat each others as equal?! islam is
a great religion that preaches only peace...ur argument here is only
with pakistanis, not muslims in general. i highly urge u not to say
any trash against islam.
Sub40H (8 months ago)
I do not say "trash" about Islam, I have read it myself. Contrary to
all other religions, Islam is NOT a religion of love or peace or
forgiveness. Its a religion of punishment, war and fear.
I have nothing against the Muslims who are peace loving, meaning who
do not follow this religion meticulously.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
More empty barks & verbal farts without any evidence to point towards
any credible sources that would say such things abt Islam..
obviously if u've been reading ur local 'shaka network' news or
swallowing too much Doordarshan saturated propaganda diet; nothing can
be done to cure your ailment.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
YET, here u are arguing with me when ur own Indian fellaz like Sub40H,
MohummedsM8, etc are cursing Islam and Muslims at will. You have a lot
more to worry abt within India than Pakistan lady
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
my problem is with both pakistanis who say shit bout india, AND with
hindus who say shit about islam. all of them will burn in hell. =)
littlepakistan (6 months ago)
The sam happens in pakisland.
Warcrime111 (5 months ago)
Enjoy your life....your hate comments are worthless and no one really
cares about what you say.
moonmeinle (9 months ago)
Do you know who is responsible for the Samjhota Express bombings and
Malegaon blasts? Try and educate yourself. The ATS chief who died in
the Mumbai attacks had lead an investigation and they found out Hindu
terrorists had done the blasts. Even Indian army people were involved.
Sadly the ATS chief has been killed and now who knows what will happen
with that investigation.
Sub40H (9 months ago)
Who killed the ATS chief? Behead him! He is nearer to you than us!
rezza01 (9 months ago)
whay jahil. Ali (RA) himself beheaded many apostates and so did many
other Sahaba. Its is legal in islam. you jahil army personal.
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Haaha! ATS chief was beheaded? where'd u hear that? The Local RSS/VHP
run shaka? Hemant Karkare was shot dead & thats it. His wife refused
monetary compensation by the BJP because she accused BJP & its parent
organization, the terrorists of VHP/RSS for being behind her husband's
killing..
Sub40H (9 months ago)
Er no, smartboy mystz1, I said behead the person "WHO" killed the ATS
chief. Read again. Stop typing "hahaha" - you sound like you are
kidding yourself.
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Ur comments r quite entertaining, wut can I say? No facts, only
fairytales.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
umm that investigation is still going thru. some hindus were put into
jail like 2 weeks ago in relation to the malegaon bombing.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Exactly, fascist Hindus are running amok all over India with their
friends & sympathizers in the Indian Armed Forces and Intelligence
community helping them target non-Hindus & what not; while Indians
continue to obsess over Pakistan/ISI.
Pointing fingers at outsiders is the cheapest form of denial. Indians
should learn that by now
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
listen my friend. you are looking at it way to one-sided. don't you
think pak does the same? you really think india is the one thats
creating problem in baloch and nwfp?? yet pak blames india. and it is
common knowledge that there are many taliban sympathizers in your pak
army and ISI.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Yes, Pakistan has evidence of Indian involvement in NWFP and
Balochistan which was shown to Foreign diplomats and Defence Attaches
to Pakistan just two days ago.
Several RAW agents have been arrested by Pakistani CIA with pictures,
ammunition, etc to carry out destabilizing terror acts in Pakistan
with RAW support. Am sure you atleast know that RAW created and
bankrolled Tamil Tigers?
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
if pak has evidence of RAW, it shud also share it. I'm not giong to
deny involvement of RAW in baloch. All I'm saying is that then don't
deny that Pak isnt doing anything in kashmir (and previously in
punjab). India also says ISI is present in assam.
as for tamil tigers, i heard theories that RAW trained them. if it is
true, then i must also say that india has paid the price for it. lets
just hope it learns from its mistakes.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Pakistan does not believe in showing India any evidence especially
after Indian attitude after 26/11, hence, all evidence was presented
to foreign diplomats and defense attaches two days ago as I stated
previously
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
but i'll agree that hindu ''fascists'' in our country will ruin our
society if our govt does nothing about them.
littlepakistan (6 months ago)
pakistan was created on reigious lines;Pakistan is a racist state
because it is onlmy for muslims.
madarchot (9 months ago)
Oh yeah it cannot be allowed religously if its happening to pakistanis
but if it happens to Indians you defend these fucks and deny they are
from pakistani soil??Fucking hypocrites.Every single one of these
guys will burn in hell.Allah hafiz.
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Yup they'll burn jst like u will. That comment coming frm an Afghan
is quite RICH..
quickfixyz (9 months ago)
Mr 10% is the president...lol i heard he was now become
30%...inflation .....lol
quickfixyz (9 months ago)
the army guys says it is horrific to see the young man to cut his
throat. but the same army he commands can see families and small
babies being bombed torn to pieces. he calls it collateral damage, or
another excuse west has invented the militant hide with
families..normal dont take arms unless they see wrong done to them.
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Sure, please provide evidence of 'families & small babies being torn
to pieces'. If you cant provide evidence, dont waste ppls' time by
engaging in rhetorical polemic. The militants DO hide with families,
infact Taliban are KNOWN to shave their beards off to mix with the
civilian population to avoid arrest. You need to grow a brain & read
some news other than Taliban-Network..
quickfixyz (9 months ago)
you must be blind or too ignorant or uneducated urself, lastly a
hypocrite when ever there is drone attack or a missile by u.s.a, there
are reports those killed are civilians , marriage parties. babies
being killed, in red masjid th females were being killed. i have never
a better hypocrite then u when asked me the proof. go get a life
rather complaining about taliban, taliban are fighting for their
rights and invasion. what are you doing? even karzai has condemned the
civilian caualties.
mystz1 (9 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply Thats like
the pot calling the kettle black - u're an ignorant runt, ranting away
without evidence. Please explain to us all WHY after a U.S. Drone
attack, its the Taliban that get to the attacked site first & quickly
start shifting dead bodies out frm there without allowing anyone to
verify if the killed r militants or civilians? If they're civilians,
truly Taliban have nothing to hide, showing dead civilian bodies will
only benefit Taliban but u see, they're not civilian bodies. Grow a
brain!
quickfixyz (9 months ago)
paki.. lol, must be from karachi follower of altaf hussain. yeah,
yeah. brains are grown in the tree . lol
mystz1 (9 months ago)
*yawn*, instead of answering my questions, u start ranting abt
nonsense. As expected.
quickfixyz (9 months ago)
whatever dude , learn to read news papers , u will get answer.
mystz1 (9 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply Thats the
best u can come up with? Tsk Tsk.
samprasant (9 months ago)
yes i fully support you army does not feel ashmed when its bombs and
kills women and children
mystz1 (9 months ago)
U keep barking without providing evidence. Tsk Tsk, amazing how
unashamed Indian kids are with their propaganda..
samprasant (9 months ago)
good pakis keep it up, you do not need any enemy , fight each other
and kill every body
mystz1 (9 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply So says the
Indian; kiddo, u have Manipur, Mizzoram, Nagaland, Kashmir, Bodoland,
Chattisgarh; how many Indians will ur army kill before u actually
need an external enemy?
samprasant (9 months ago) Show Hide -3 Marked as spam Reply
Actually many of your leaders appriciated indians because in kashmir
also india never uses helicaptor gun ship , see imran khans interview
and nawaz sherifs interview they clearly say india never uses a
helicaptor gun ship against its own people but pakistan acts as
contract killer for americans thats the big difference taking money
from some body and killing its own people , thats interesting and
begging world community for some money , look at your zardari he needs
7 bn for pakistan
mystz1 (9 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply India never
uses helicopter gunships in Kashmir because of 'terrain' of the
valley. Even in Kargil, Indian didnt use gunships cuz its suicidal.
Imran Khan & Nawaz Sharif are not 'military' personnel, so they dont
knw the military reasons for not using gunships by India. They are
politicians & they will make statements to win political points
India used tanks, artillery & Indian Airforce to bomb the hell out of
Golden Temple in Operation Bluestar in congested Amritsar city killing
1000 civies..
samprasant (9 months ago)
well india used gun ship in kargil because those were not its own
people those were pakis... yes india killed sikh and india paid the
price , why do u want repeat indias mistake learn from us , and indian
primeminister did not run to usa to stop the way , nawaz sharif went
to running to america
mystz1 (9 months ago)
No India didnt use gunships in Kargil, it used Indian Airforce. You
fail to remember that Vajpayee first called Clinton to pressurize
Pakistan to withdraw from Kargil. Then Nawaz had to go to the U.S.
Thats the irony of India; when Pakistan says solve J&K dispute by UN
resolutions or U.S support, India says NO third parties shud be
involved but when a crisis hits India like Kargil or Mumbai attacks;
Indians go running to U.S, U.K etc to pressurize Pakistan. Double
standards!
mehwish92 (8 months ago) Show Hide -1 Marked as spam Reply a war
and a disputed territory are 2 different things.
when it comes to war, you need a third person to intervene.
when it comes to disputed territory, the 3rd party doesn't know the
ground realities, hence 3rd party would not help.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
There's no 'war' b/w India & Pakistan now or even right after 26/11
happened so why the need to go running after U.S. and Britain by
India? India & Pakistan already have a joint-mechanism to tackle
terrorism, India could've used that forum..
Please spare us! U're telling me third-parties such as the U.N mission
in Kashmir, Amnesty Int'l, Human Rights Watch know 'nothing' abt
Kashmir conflict after being involved in documenting Indian abuses for
20years? Amazing. Fact is India can no longer hide
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
if you know anything about india & pak, u shud know that there is a
mutual sense of suspicion between the two. hence a joint-mechanism is
out of the question.
as for kashmir, it is a complicated issue, and i do not wish to argue
with you on it, but remember that indian abuse began mainly after
infiltration in 1989; and many of those terrorists were (or are) based
in pak.
also, during 1971, remember than Pakistan also went to the US and UK
asking for them to intervene.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Joint-Mechanism already exists; it cannot be just 'out-of-question'
simply cuz Indians got pissed off cuz of 26/11. Indian politicians
need to start acting maturely.
Kashmir is a land terrorized by India since '47. Even when in 2008 Aug/
Sept, when Kashmiris protested peacefully, unarmed in their millions
against India; Indian Army shot dead 70 innocent protesters..
1971 was Pakistan's civil war which India cheaply took advantage of
instead of acting maturely yet again.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
pakistan does the exact same my friend.
as for indian politicians acting maturely, we all know thats never
going to happen. terrorism is, hwoever, the main issue, and many
terrorist attacks in india originate in pak. One most famous one is
the Indian AirLines hijacking.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
And like I said, most terrorist acts inside Pakistan are planned and
executed by Indian backed individuals such as the sectarian violence
in Pakistan's major cities in the early & mid-90s to give one example
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
i dont know if any of that is true. but let me say one thing:
pakistanis say how indians always blame india whenever an attack
happens there. well now atleast i can say that pakistan does the same.
and now if you are giong to tell me that pakistan tells the truth, and
india lies...all i can say is that tht would be extremely one sided.
to be honest, both sides have problems. pak has harmed india many
times, and no doubt india has done the same.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Unfortunately that is not true. Pakistan doesnt blame 'everything' on
India. Assassination of Benazir Bhutto, one of the biggest leaders not
jst in Pakistan but internationally. If Pak wanted it could've blamed
India; but it did not.
But in India, if a bird falls out of the sky; its cuz ISI did it
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
last year, there were many attacks all over india. India did not blame
pakistan, but blamed SIMI and Indian mujahideen. India could have
easily said Pakistan did it, pretending to be an indian outfit. Why
didn't it blame pak then?
You ppl have this paranoia type of thing, where you guys believe that
india is out to get pakistan...unfortunately alot of indians feel the
same way bout pak. I would say that pak is not a threat to india, but
LeT definitely is.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
But you forget that SIMI is accused of being a proxy for ISI...
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
okay even if it is a proxy for ISI, the most that can be true is tht
it is funded by ISI. but the fact is tht they are still indians.
if pak claimed that the ppl fighting in balochistan are balochis, but
are funded by RAW, i wouldnt even bother arguing with you, because i
would believe tht to be highly likely.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
i mean...come on...SIMI must get its funds from Somewhere
the militants in balochistan must be getting their funds from
somewhere as well.
if india believes ISI is helpin SIMI, its probably true
If pak believesRAW is helping balochis, its probably true too.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Yeh SIMI may be getting its backing frm anywhere but Indian govt
doesnt lose time blaming Pak for it.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
BLA - Balochistan Liberation Army is an organization created by RAW in
Afghanistan by financing Baloch exiles in foreign countries. They are
given incentives to come back, infiltrate back in to Pakistan and
destabilize as much as they can.
Your argument is shifting its tone now
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
again...pak believes BLA is funded by RAW. maybe it is..i dono...
all im trying to remind you is that when india says anything bout
ISI, then dont complain..
you guys believe that india lies when it blames ISI...wut proof do u
have, then tht pak isnt lyin bout BLA and RAW??
my argument is not shifting tone..
my stance has ALWAYS been that if ISI is involved in creating problems
in India, it is priobably also true that RAW is doing something in pak
as well.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Again, Pak has given proof to India's new patrons, the Americans of
India's involvement in Balochistan.
My point was Pak doesnt blame 'everything' on RAW while India blames
even the most tiny incidents on ISI. U've failed to see that
perspective.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
go to the UN if you have the evidence. USA is too selfish. i kno UN is
still mostly influenced by USA, but who knows, maybe it'll help your
case.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
k im tired of this. nice talking to you & Khuda Hafiz
i appreciate that atleast in our conversation none of us cursed at
each other, and had a somewhat civilized conversation.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
I appreciate your civilized conduct as well. Like I said, I am more
than willing to talk properly with Indians but those that do not wish
to act civil deserve no respect..
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
propaganda exists on both sides. pakistani propaganda is just as bad,
if not worse. i'm sure you've seen zaid hamid's videos. pathetic.
as for evidence, dossier contained the confession of kasab, satellite
phone intercepts between the attackers & their handlers in Pakistan, &
a list of Pakistani-made weapons used by the militants. i believe
that's evidence.
and pakistanis say tht india always blames pakistan for terror. do
they not remember the indian airline hijacking? those ppl r in pak
now
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Zaid Hamid's show is intended as a rhetorical one. Atleast ppl know
that they have to take his shows with a pinch-of-salt before the show
begins. India media amazes us by its unprofessionalism, derogatory
yellow-journalism each day..
We've all seen the 'satellite-phone' intercepts as shown by Indian
media; the phone shows 'Jalalabad [Afg]' on the screen while the
Indian anchor keeps saying 'look, its a Pakistani number'. Quit trying
to kid yourself into believing sensational gibberish.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
dude, you are jsut trying to justify wht pak media does, even though
its just as bad with its propaganda.
i dont remember indian media showing nething about the jalalabad
number, but yes i do admit tht indian media is definitely very anti-
pak, as is pakistan's media about india.
don't try to justify pak media's war mongering while putting india's
down.
and don't count what indian media shows as evidence. its what the govt
shows tht matters.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
No. Am not justifying Pak media at all. If you want to watch REAL Pak
media, watch shows by anchors like Talat Hussain, Kashif Abbasi, Hamid
Mir, etc. Zaid Hamid's show is KNOWN by Pakistanis to be rhetorical.
Indians dont get that
Yes, the satellite phone showed in CNN-IBN's telecasts shows
'Jalalabad' while the anchor keeps on whining that its frm Pakistan..
Please point to Pak media reports that can be termed as 'war
mongering'; this is more fantasy creations of Indian govt + media
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
yes many of paks media persons are quite professional. and the same is
true for indian media.
but there are still ppl on both sides who are biased and say shit. i
dont care whether zaid hamid's shows are supposed to be rhetorical or
not, that dude has no right to say shit like that. if an indian went
on tv tomorrow and said shit like ''the end of pak federation is
near...' blah blah, you guys would be quite pissed also.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
We have tons of mainstream Indian media reports and telecasts where
so-called Indian 'intellectuals' routinely call for Pakistan's
destruction and what not. Like I said, all my previous comments to
which u responded were responses themselves to ignorant Indian kids..
I have no personal beef with India or Indians; I've dated two Indian
girls to be honest.
mehwish92 (8 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply again,
you think its only an indian thing. read many pakistani news articles
saying garbage about india. I've read many.
Zaid Hamid, however, is probably the worst. And i think its sad that
he was so popular in pak, that he was shown on tv like 10 times after
26-11
mystz1 (8 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply There's no
10-times. He does a regular show and it is aired once and repeated
again jst like other shows.
mehwish92 (8 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply dude he
was interviewed by like 5 different people in separate shows!
mystz1 (8 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply Yes; its not
his fault he's being invited to different shows who like to see their
ratings go up. Pak Media has atleast been learning the art of
increasing ratings from Indian media after 26/11
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
lol why do they wanna increase their ratings? because pakistani awaam
likes hearing bad things about indians.
indian over-reaction is still justified to some extent, because these
ppl came from pak. if i came and attacked your house, wudnt u have
anger towards me?
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Its not as simple as 'i came to ur house, u came to mine'.
International politics is a bit too complex but Indian officials fail
to understand that which is why their immature campaign to have
Pakistan declared a terrorist state failed miserably
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
im not talking about politics. when you guys believe an indian blew up
a bomb in your country, dont you guys get angry? Thats exactly hwo
indian public felt.
I personally believe that pranab mukherji is an idiot; all he does is
talk talk talk. In the end he isnt even going to do nething
productive.
As for declaring pak a terror state, India itself cannot do that. but
the way things are going nowadays, if pak doesnt get itself out of the
mess its in, it might happen soon.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
India has been trying to get Pakistan declared a terrorist state
since 1990. Such wishful dreams only remain as such.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
it doesnt matter whether or not india is trying to get pak declared as
a terror state. if pakistan is true in its intentions, and is really
not doing anything, then you guys have nothing to worry about.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
this is not highschool contest; 'if u didnt do anything wrong then
nothing to worry abt'. there's something called propaganda and if not
countered it becomes believable. Indian propaganda will be met and
countered at every step
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
its not about propaganda, its about evidence. how can the world call
pak a terror state if they dont hav evidence for it?
mystz1 (8 months ago) Sh
exactly; they dont have the evidence which India claims 'it' has;
hence Mukerji, Chidambram, etc keep pressing for U.S, U.K to declare
Pak terror state but it doesnt happen, much to their anguish
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
india only has evidence to claim that pak-based groups are responsible
for 26/11...
india does not have evidence to claim that ISI was involved. india
only BELIEVES that ISI was involved...
so yes, based on that pak cannot be called a terror state.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
That is a highly contradictory comment to make. So if India doesnt
have evidence to support its claims that ISI was involved in 26/11;
that means it is clearly lying outright to the world
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
india is not lying. india has never said it has evidence for isi
involvement. initially when Pak denied any involvement of pak
citizens, india got pissed off, and said it has evidence that the
attack originated in pakistan, and that the fact that pak is denying
it, AND the fact that such a large scale attack went unnoticed in pak,
leads us (indians) to believe that some ppl in pak's administration
(ISI) are involved.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Jst yesterday, Mr Chidambram said again that Pakistani state elements
are involved without talking abt any evidence of any sort that would
point to such conclusions. That means Indian leaders are continuously
making irresponsible statements knowing full well they are lying
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
okay maybe then they DO have evidence of ISI involvement? i dont
know. as far as I know, they don't have evidence.
besides, rememeber the lahore blast 2 months ago? pak blamed
india...later pak-taliban took the blame...and then we never herd
about that again...who was lying there?
i dont wanna argue nemore. lets leave it here. in conclusion both
sides have issues. the end.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
They dont have any evidence of ISI involvement; CIA and MI6 have
already stated that there is NO evidence of ISI involvement.
Pak didnt blame India; Pak said there is 'possibility' of outside
involvement. Those are two different thing to say
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
no dude. I watch pak news channels very often. Geo News was saying
Indian citizens were behind it.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
no evidence provided by you yet again
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
let me just ask you one thing...
do you believe that ISI is not involved in ANY anti-india activities
with india whatsoever?
I personally do not believe that RAW is 100% innocent. For all I know
RAW COULD be involved in anti-pak activities in baloch, etc. India
isnt as innocent as it claims to be.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
neither is ISI 100% innocent; no intelligence agency is
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
exactly my point. so when india blames ISI, it could very well be the
truth. when pak blames RAW, that could also be the truth. so no point
in arguing on that.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Good Lord, thats wut I've been trying to explain to 5yr old Indian
kids ALL along until u came & started responding to my age-old
comments & since then u n I have been going around in circles
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
well i dono wut uve been saying earlier, but everything you've sed to
me, you've been blaming india entirely, and saying that india blames
ISI for everything, and for absolutely no reason.
i'm just trying to tell you, if you guys believe that india is lying
when it blames ISI, then how do u expect an indian to believe that you
aren't lying when u say RAW is involved in attacks in pak?
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Nope; all I've been saying is that India blames ISI before it can even
establish facts jst as the example of 26/11 shows. Even though Indian
govt has no evidence of ISI involvement, they continue to launch
propaganda against ISI by saying they 'believe' it is involved. that
is highly irresponsible.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
ok i will definitely agree with you that india blamed ISI way too
early.
as for claiming that the terrorists came from pakistan, hwoever, that
makes sense, because they had evidence quite early into the whole
incident.
i am giong to sleep . Shaba Khair.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
that evidence is still up in the air.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
okay ive had enough of you. based on your arguments, you believe that
india is the one that creates all the problems, and tht pak is the
inocent one. u noe wut? live with that fantasy. because it isnt true.
face your country's problems to help it advance..
i know india is a messed up country, and i believe it probably is
involved in activities in pak. andi want to try my best to improve
it.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
by wht i just said, i wus referring to british PM's statement that 75%
of terror attacks in UK originate in pak. now polish are also pretty
pissed...
pak should do the best it can to remove these ppl.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
British PM meant Tribal Areas by that statement; a place that
Pakistani govt let the Tribes govern themselves
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
its still a part of pakistan. the pepole in thetribal areas are still
pakistanis. i dont care whose responsible, it is pakistan's
responsibility to control it. is tht not true?
because to me, the tribal areas are still in pakistan, and those ppl r
pakistanis in my eyes.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Tribal Areas are in Pakistan but they are governed by tribal culture.
Its a complex issue which I really do not have the time to explain
here on youtube.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
this time i'm seriously done. ive had enough of this. Allah Hafiz.
samprasant (9 months ago)
paki but the difference between you and us is , ameirca is killing
your people at will and u see there drons but just can not do any
thing yes we have problems and every country has problems you big
brother china has problem every where but we do not take money from
america and kill our own people by helicaptor hun ship ... see imran
khans interview and u will come to know
mystz1 (9 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply Here comes
another ignorant Indian kid. Geez! Its like a lineup, one Indian kid
exits, another enters to show us his ignorance.
U.S. is targeting 'foreign' Taliban in Tribal Areas, such as Chechen,
Arab, African, Central Asian. Learn some facts before farting
paki3393 (9 months ago) Show Hide +1 Marked as spam Reply US is not
Really pakistan;s ally. It is a fox hunting pakistan from back by
using false indian taliban...........
mehwish92 (8 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply if
taliban was indian, they wouldn't warn india of more 26/11-like
attacks if india ever attacked pakistan
samprasant (9 months ago) Show Hide -3 Marked as spam Reply Paki ,
well i get knowledge from your leaders like Imaran khan , see him in
many of the TV interviews what he says pakistan is killing its own
people pakistani army is nothing but a contract killer and is not it
true that amrican drones are kiiling innocent pakis , if u can not
feel sorry about your own people who else can feel sorry , how come
foreign terrorist are coming to your contry and some body else is
coming and killing them , then u pakis are good for nothing
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Haaha! Imran Khan is an emotional guy with no maturity in politics.
Ever wonder WHY, even with all his sincerity, his party is unable to
do better in elections? Cuz u need politicians who rise above
sentiments.
Ok, how abt Pak Army stops killing foreign Taliban tomorrow & instead
sends them to India; then U.S will tell India to do what Pakistan is
doing; then who becomes 'contract' killer? Like I said, Indian kids
like u r better off sticking to their xbox consoles. Politics is not
ur forte.
samprasant (9 months ago)
if politics is pakis forte why you remained in military rule for 36
years ???
Paki army is not killing foreign talibs its killing muslims , are not
those people are less muslims , how can muslim kill another
muslim ???
mystz1 (9 months ago)
I meant leave politics to politicians. You wont understand the
complexities behind their decisions.
Like I said, u're jst another ignorant Indian runt obsessed with
Pakistani videos. Get over ur inferiority complex. U're not a Muslim,
why r u worried abt them killing each other? U shud worry abt
Hindutva-terrorists & Brahmo-fascists who are buzy killing fellow
Hindus, the Dalits and also Muslims, Christians, Sikhs &
discriminating them all over India..
samprasant (9 months ago)
well why should we have inferiority complex , well we do not beg other
nations to give us some loan or our balance of payment is not going
to last for 2 more months , or we did not loose part of our country in
war or whole world tells us terroist or we feel sorry being indian or
we fail to accpet our dead bodies or we are not an industrial nation ,
tell me why should we feel inferiority complex that too to pakistan ,
its pakistan who is not able to digest the fact that indian gone much
ahead
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Thats not where inferiority complex comes from. It comes frm the fact
that after tireless efforts by India to have Pakistan declared
terrorist state & what not; the world still doesnt do it. Whenever
international community speaks abt South Asia, they speak of India &
Pakistan in same breath, it sorely hurts Indians. With 6x the
population, industrial & military capability, u still get lumped with
Pakistan & i KNOW how it hurts. Thats why a barrage of Indian kids r
obsessed with defamin Pak here
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
the truth is,both countries have alot of problems. both indians n
pakistanis need to stop putting each other down.
it is true that india hates being coupled with pakistan. why not hav
our own identities for once?
as for calling pak a terrorist state, unfortunately it does seem to be
going that way with the recent poland incident, and 26/11.
pak needs to get its act together else one day it will be named a
terror state.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Exactly. All we ask from 5yr old Indian kids is to refrain from making
ignorant comments on Pakistan-related videos even if they cannot
resist the temptation to watch them. We already know youtube is
infested with Indian rodents; we dont need new ones every hour to
prove it more
The Polish citizen case was no indicator of anything. The last
foreigner killed in Pakistan was Daniel Pearl back in 2002 - SEVEN
years ago. 26/11 is still being investigated, dont count chickens
before they hatch.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
my friend, a polish dude was just beheaded in pak. they don't know who
did it, but it happened.
as for 26-11, it's still being investigated, but it is still true that
pak has admitted that the terrorists are of pakistani origin. if you
are going to bring up the case that there MUST have been local indian
support, then yes i agree with you. don't forget tht fahim ansari is
also in jail, and he's an indian.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
I know Polish 'dude' was beheaded; what I said was, that incident
points towards NO trend of such sort.
Pak only admitted Kasab's nationality, nothing else. India's 'dossier'
to Pakistan deliberately omitted information that India did not hide
frm U.S. & U.K. Pakistan is well aware of Indian schemes..
Lets also not forget, the 9 RAW operatives Pakistan has arrested since
26/11 for trying to take 'revenge' for what happened in Mumbai.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
as a pakistani, it is but natural for you to be suspicious of india
and anti-india. but as a human being i expect you to go above that.
indian govt states that it omitted that information from the pak
dossier because it doesnt trust pak, and didnt feel comfortable giving
them this extra info. Mainly because it believes ISI is involved.
According to them, its like giving evidence straight to the culprit,
allowing them to manipulate the evidence.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Well that is quite ridiculous. Your govt accuses Pakistan on one hand
while on the other, refuses to share the very information that would
make it easier for Pak to conduct a speedy investigation and bring
criminals to justice. These are matters for Indians to sort; whether
they want sincere cooperation by Pakistan or whether they want to
continue pointing-fingers.
Even American CIA and British MI6 has said that ISI is not involved in
26/11 but Indians just dont seem to get that
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
CIA and MI6 havent said that ISI isnt involved for sure, they just
said that there is, so far, no evidence to claim that to be true.
However it hasnt been ruled out. Don't forget however that USA also
knows that ISI was closely affiliated with LeT (atleast in the past,
if not now).
And don't worry, India is sharing evidence with Pak now. There is stil
alot of suspicion though so there will definitely be problems. With
our history, you cant expect india to not suspect pak.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
See this is where your denial kicks in. CIA, MI6; high level British
and American diplomats have all stated time & again that ISI or any
Pakistani-state element is NOT involved in 26/11 but u dont want to
believe it cuz thats not what you want to hear
Find out why Indian media launched into a frenzy of attacks on British
Foreign Secretary David Milliband when he visited India
ISI cut its links to LeT and others back in 2001; u clearly need to
polish up on factual information
sysstole101 (9 months ago)
well red mosque, uh if i say jump out the window, do you do that? if
i say, centrum of the hague is dangerous than you go act like that? or
what if i say taqwah and the strong muslim phraseyology of any
wrongdoing would become a probability you go do that? and act like
people die? or really kill them? well than thats your guilty charges.
02Anton300 (9 months ago)
its sad tha people r fed tha to kill inocent people poverty can mak u
do a lot
samprasant (9 months ago)
we people from pakistan must admit that there is some thing wrong
with our socity Mr 10% is our president swat is now an indipendent
country what will we do with nuclear weapon if swat and wazirstan goes
out from our country as well beluch people are all ready hoisting
indian flag and they do not celebrate indipence day as aug 14 they
celebrate it on Aug 15 same as india ....
chingy3227 (9 months ago)
we should pray to god , work hard , unite AND BRING IMAN . its obvious
that ALLAH is not happy with us . then , INSHALLAH everything will be
ok
samprasant (9 months ago)
but our president is Mr 10% and we fool people elected him , what
should we do now ?
mystz1 (9 months ago)
whether 10% or watever, all politicians are corrupt. If you can have
Narendra Modi, a Chief Minister sit in his office while having the
blood of thousands of Muslims on his hands; am sure Pakistan can
afford a bit corrupt leaders; not as bad as the Indian scenario.
samprasant (9 months ago)
atleast our politicins do not allow another country to kill our own
people and they do not give highest award to killers of its own
people ...... and some other country does not do target practice in
our country
chingy3227 (9 months ago)
sapmprasant u should suck my cock . then everything will be ok
mystz1 (9 months ago)
another 5yr old Indian ignorant runt obsessed with Pakistan. Geeez!
Kashmir, Mizzoram, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Assam are all clamoring
for independence n here he is obsessed with Swat. Haaha! These lil
Indian runts never learn. Assamese r hoisting Pakistani flags,
Kashmir already celebrates 14.August instead of 15th. I pity ur sorry
state of affairs lil kid
samprasant (9 months ago)
Atleast my country does not give our highest honour to some one whoes
coutry daily kills some people in an indipendent sovergain coutry like
pakistan ... you guys should hang Zardari Mr 10% ... shame on you
people atleast we are not slave of some country and we do not give
passage to some country to kill our own people ....
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Again, for 5yr old Indian kids 'sovereignty' only means 'geographical'
boundaries while they fail to realize this is the age of
globalization. Europe has almost done away with borders, every country
that is a member of United Nations has surrendered part of its
sovereignty to others.. Go & read an Idiots Guide to Understanding
Sovereignty first kiddo.
samprasant (9 months ago)
my paki kid i feel like other pakis you must be ashmed of telling your
origin of country look at all the resturants in europe and other parts
of asia , they might be pakistani owners but they tell india food and
they give indian names , and just by telling you are paki every
country sends you for second round of checking ...what are u proud off
a country which will go bankrupt in another 2 months ? where people
tell pakistan is worlds migrane ...
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Hahaa! First try & go out of India, then tell us what Pakistani owners
name their restaurants. For an ignorant idiot like u, its quite easy
to sit on ur computer chair, eat pakoras & discharge empty farts based
on some hypothetical delusional myths ur one-cell brain comes up with
frm sovereignty, u jump & change topic again. A typical Indian-kid
style of discussion -> when cornered, quickly change topic. Am sure
all youtubers r enjoying ur ridiculous attempts to somehow show
Pakistan negatively
samprasant (9 months ago)
well we do feel equally happy when Lal Masjid was taken hostage and
your amry has to kill your own people we do feel equally happy when
Balochstan wants to break from you , when Americans are killing every
day some pakistani for target practice , what country you are some
army attacks and kills your citizen and you give your highest award to
thats countries people ? well only pakistan can do all these things
in earth ..
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Jst like we felt happy when Indian Army had to kill 1000 Indian
citizens jst to take over Golden Temple at Amritsar. When Kashmiris
put Pakistani flags on their houses on 14.Aug while black-flags on
15.Aug; when millions of them demonstrate to get rid of Indian
draconian rule & Indian forces use unarmed protesters for target
practice since they cant shoot jackshyt other than that. Where
Muslims, Christians, Sikhs r massacred in their thousands once evry
couple of years as a ritual
samprasant (9 months ago)
Well mistakes does happen and thats how democracy works look a sikh
is our Prime-minister today and another muslim was our president and a
christian was our Army chief .. the present air force chief is
practisiing christain and our IB (chief ) is Sikh .... we are such a
diverse country but we are united unlike you one religion but that
could not save your country from breaking up .. u are still fighting
with each other ... think over it again... there is n0 point in
arguning ...
mystz1 (9 months ago)
WOW, when it comes to India, its a mistake. When its abt Pakistan, u
jump up n down. Pointing out one-off high-profile figures is useless
since I can also point things like two Hindu Chief Justices of
Pakistan [the highest judiciary post] off the top of my head.
U r united? This is wut Periaswami Naiker said to Jinnah, 'u have got
ur freedom from the Brahmins. Someday we will get ours'. The South is
where Hindi signs are daubed with black paint as a resistance to
Northern Rule. Shud i continue?
samprasant (9 months ago)
Well this what Maulana Azad told to Jinnah , no pakistan is doomed to
be failure and do not make fool of people by religion and his
predection came true just within 25 years.well you must understand
that unlike you our prime-minister is a Sikh and minority and most
educated head of state of the whole world ... who is your head of
state Mr 10% ? has he gone to school ?
mystz1 (9 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply Haaha! Ur
simply trying to come up with childish come-backs as if this is ur
highschool bitch fight. I quoted Swami Naiker, which is supported by
historical facts. wut u jst attributed to Maulana Azad is bullshyt
since u are adding ur opinion under his name. Kiddo, learn how to
present historical facts accurately first. Ur ignorance has exceeded
all bounds by now
mehwish92 (8 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply they will
get their freedom from the brahmins, but not by dividing india.
instead this will be done by abolishing the caste system.
insha'allah.
mystz1 (8 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply We've seen
the caste system get more & more stronger in India and now Brahman-
fascists & Hindutva-terrorists have infiltrated all aspects of Indian
society..
mehwish92 (8 months ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam Reply i'm not
hindu, so i wouldn't know. however i doubt it's gotten ne stronger.
if anything, its still as strong as it used to be. discrimination
based on caste still happens. as for hindutva, again i woudln't say
theyve infiltrated in india, but it is certainly true that some hindu
extremist groups are trying to ''hindu-talibanize'' india. but since
india is a democracy (although its a dysfunctional one), these groups
can easily be rooted out of india tries.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Malegaon and Samjhota Express bomb blasts in which mostly Muslims and
Pakistanis died were carried out by Hindutva-groups who were helped by
Indian Army officer Col. Purohit and a member of the Intelligence
Community.
Today, Abhinav Bharat, terrorist group has been revived by the RSS
while groups like Shiv Ram Sena conduct 'moral policing' on the
streets of India. India should be worried abt its Hindu terrorists
before worrying abt Pakistan or Muslims in general
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
india needs to be worried bout both pak terrorists and its hindu
terrorists-extremists.
the muslim population in india for the most part is peaceful
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Muslim population of India has reached its breaking point. decades of
persecution and oppression are pushing them to the brink.
No wonder all the gangsters, underworld dons, terrorists or any other
illegal activity is shown as being done by Muslims even in bollywood
movies much like how Arabs were demonized by hollywood up until the
mid-90s
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
i am a muslim. though i'll agree its hard for my community as a
minority, you cannot say that our community has been oppressed. yes
many things have happened (babri, gujurat), but you cant put the
entire community down because of that. and fyi muslim population is
growing. it is predicted that 30% of indians will be muslim by 2025.
as for bollywood showing muslims as bad guys, i'll giv you that for
sure...bad guy is always muslim.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Again that is for you to decide how that 30% end up being - the
latest slumgod millionaire movie shows exactly where most, if not all,
Indian Muslims are heading towards - more economic, social isolation &
deprivation as confirmed by the Sachar Committee Report
samprasant (9 months ago)
Well you guys just could not do anything thats the power and beauty of
india , look what we did we broke your one arm. Atleast we have
minorities in our country who became president and another minority is
our prime-minister and another minorty was our army chief? what is
your country has to proof ... yes my country is big we have trouble
and we stand up grow stronger unlike you , and we do not beg america
and china for money else we will go bankrupt ... its your plain
jelousy
mystz1 (9 months ago)
More of the same ignorance. Thats the power of Pakistan, we dont have
to do much; India does it all itself. Kashmiris r marching for
independence, Assamese r raising Pakistani flags while Indian media &
politicians continue to sit in their offices escape-goating the ISI-
boogeyman.
Your country is slowly falling apart while u continue to be obsessed
with Pakistan and its problems. only difference in begging is u begged
Russia before n now its U.S. Keep at it for all we care.
samprasant (9 months ago)
Well Atleast we do not use helicaptor gun ship to kill our own people
or not even in kashmir and we do not out source Americs to kill our
own people .. pakistan is so worried about mislims what it is doing to
its own population are not they less muslims , those were in Lal
Masjid were not they muslims how come your army used phosphrous bombs
over there if some other army kills muslims that became a bigger
crime , you stupid pakis loook at your house first ..
mystz1 (9 months ago)
Same rants over & over again. Helicopter gunships r used by India
regularly in Assam, Nagaland, Mizzoram against its own ppl. Jst cuz u
r ignorant about certain issues doesnt mean those things do not take
place.
Again, u have NO evidence of phosphorus bombs being used at Lal
Masjid, yet u continue barking without evidence. Its really
entertaining to see all 5yr old Indian kids keep on making claim after
claim without providing even an iota of evidence. Grow up kid, quit
wasting my time
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
pakistani flag was raised not by assamese people, but the illegal
bangladeshis in the area after a riot and clash between the the
bangladeshi's and the local civilians.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
The fact that it was raised is enough. Didnt the Indians 'liberate'
Bangladesh? What went wrong? Why are Bangladeshis raising 'Pakistani'
flags in India? You're clearly missing some vital information to
connect these dots
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
Just because india liberated bangladesh doesn't mean our relations
with them are good. we have many issues. millions of their ppl are
illegally in india (due to our stupid govt, partially). Bangladesh-
based terror groups also have affiliations with pakistan-based terror
groups; this could be a vital point in explaining why the pakistani
flag was raised. These bangladesh terror groups target india & r known
to promote voilence
mystz1 (8 months ago)
There we go again; you repeat the same stories without evidence.
Sure, Pakistan has terror groups, Bangladesh has terror groups,
everyone has terror groups read to kill Indians, isn't it? Ridiculous
gibberish.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
ever heard of HuJI? Even bangladesh acknowledges that they exist. as
for evidence, im not giong to bother giving you evidence here. the
500 character count does not allow me to do so. As a pakistani, it is
your mentality to think that indians are liars. Keep at it. I'm not
going to bother changing that for you.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Nope; as a Pakistani I know how to respond to an educated Indian [you
perhaps] and an ignorant lunatic [such as user Sub40H, tupac175,
MohummedsM8, etc]. The latter catagory deserve replies only suited for
their limited intellect..
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
I have made my observation solely on the basis of my conversation with
you. From all the comments you have sent me, it is quite obvious that
you have absolutely no trust in India, and believe that it is
constantly lying, and is always out to get Pakistan. I don't blame
you; it is but natural as a Pakistani for you to think so. Indians
feel the same way about Pakistan. As for who is right and who is
wrong, only time will tell. As far as I'm concerned, most ppl on both
sides want to live in peace.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Again, as previously stated as an Indian you would have ur natural
tendency to distrust Pakistan and I would distrust India; but the
point being made is; at the end of the day you and I can agree to
disagree with mutual respect.
You only have to look at the difference b/w the discussion you and I
have had.. and the verbal ramblings of ignorant 5yr olds to whom I
respond to in the language they understand. Mutual respect is a two-
way street.
mehwish92 (8 months ago)
alright lets agree to disagree.
one thing i'd like to say before we end this. U said smoething about
indians being immature for thinking everybody (bangladesh & pakistan)
is out to get india (u made this comment after i said tht relations
between india and bangla arent too good).
well remember, that pakistan is currently saying ITSELF that bangla
based terrorists planned 26/11. clearly pak also believes that there r
terrorists in banlga targetting india.
tupac175 (8 months ago) Comment removed by author
Donserz (8 months ago)
What kind of Islam, are the taliban following...?
zazai03 (8 months ago)
They fallowing is the ISI way of Islam, as they are the creation of
ISI of Pakistan
Donserz (8 months ago)
...and your proof is?
zazai03 (8 months ago)
the proof is the reality on the ground
Donserz (8 months ago)
Sorry, Bro, but that does'nt help proving your point...You just made!
about ISI and Taliban.
zazai03 (8 months ago)
I know it's hard to prove it to someone who never seen the area, this
reality can only be understand who been effected and from the area I
am one of them. these pictures of news channel is not showing us the
reality behind the scene
Donserz (8 months ago)
I was born in Peshawar. and I've been living there for almost 14
years.!
mystz1 (8 months ago)
And I suppose u know? Sitting in Birmingham on ur refugee status n
ranting away..
lionsgateblows (8 months ago)
what is the reality?
extremist islam either does or doesnt have anything to do with the
religion
mystz1 (8 months ago)
And once again, the truth comes to light, Afghan refugees & Arab
infiltrators are the real source of Taliban & Al-Qaeda presence in
Pakistan:
news(dot)bbc(dot)co(dot)uk/2/h i/south_ asia/7843917(dot)stm
haroonjaf (8 months ago)
pak army tujey salam
MePorkistani (8 months ago)
Haroon,after salam,ask them if they have been able to establish
identity of those "suspected american drones"bcause those "suspected"
are offering one way ride to "Mujahdeens" ( i call them KHANZEERS)
RaethanaRana (8 months ago)
benazir bhutto was a opportunistic whore - one really needs to watch
her videos when she was in power fucking islamic radical bitch! they
are all bastards
2003xx (8 months ago)
love pakistan army love u
2003xx (8 months ago)
Pakistan army soliders we love u and work with u enocunter these
traned bastred by external forece , i think amerians and indian t
Soon we will sort out them too inshallah
MohummedsM8 (8 months ago)
I think the Pakistan Army are heroes!
I hate these radical bastards, we need to wipe them off the face of
the earth.
hurahman (8 months ago)
pakistans army is the immune system but when the immune sysytem
attacks its own body..THATS DANGEROUS for the body..
MohummedsM8 (8 months ago)
If the part of the body the Immune system is attacking is a Cancer...
then It's good for the body.
Islamic fundamentalist terrorist bastards are Pakistan's Caner...
Go for it Pakistan kill the Cancer!
hurahman (8 months ago)
the thing is our government oppresses people and that is why they
fight back...as long as their is oppression there will ALWAYS be
terrorist...
i want islam to rule in pakistan(moderate) but their too far
extreme...all the leaders of pakistan should just get the fuck
out..they have fucked up BIG TIME..
MohummedsM8 (8 months ago)
hurahman, to be honest I am not qualified to comment on that, I have
only been to India!
From the outside it looks like your Gov is doing OK, and if they are
coming down hard on terrorists, who can blame them.
I can see that their oppression, could lead to a negative backlash.
But look, you have to realize that forces outside Pakistan are yanking
the chains of both your Gov. and the terrorists/Extremists
In a sense, there is a kind of civil war which is being created by
outside influences!
razaus (8 months ago) Show Hide +3 Marked as spam Reply shut up you
duymb fuck. As long as there are stupid people like you who are lead
around like sheep there will be terrorists.
its time to start shooting people like you
TruthKamanche (8 months ago) Show Hide -9 Marked as spam Reply
Marked as spam Muhammad was; A GENOCIDAL MANIAC, A PEDOPHILE, HE KEPT
SLAVES, TORTURED PEOPLE, ROBBED MECCAN CARAVANS, CHEATED ON HIS WIVES,
ORDERED POLITICAL ASSASSINATIONS & THE DEATHS OF THOSE WHO LEFT HIS
RELIGION.
A prophet must live a pious life & set a perfect example for human
kind. He must never lie, cheat, steal or murder innocents. There is no
proof that Muhammad was a prophet, but plenty to say he was EVIL.
Watch; Muhammads sexual deviancy on U Tube it contains FACTS, from the
Quran & Hadiths.
n5isar (8 months ago)
pakistan zind a bad pak fouj paind a bad
MePorkistani (8 months ago)
@n5isar, LODRAAY Lag Gia Pakistan.
Paki Gidhar, Naraa e Khanzeer, Mohd Maderchooddddddddddddd./
MohummedsM8 (8 months ago)
Islamic fundamentalist are Cancer! Pakistani Army is Chemo therapy!
YEAH!
hurahman (8 months ago)
no pakistani army is what makes the cancer worst!!
MohummedsM8 (8 months ago)
sorry it's the Chemo... the reason you think that is because you are
PART OF THE CANCER!
hurahman (8 months ago)
my friend there is NO cure for cancer...it will always come back...you
can delay it but you cant kill it...atleast not yet..
MohummedsM8 (8 months ago)
you can tell that to my sister who had lymphoma 13 years ago and is
still just fine!
But with Islamic fundamentalist terrorist bastard like you... there
is only one destination.
I love the Pakistan Army, I want to join them and kill terrorists.
razaus (8 months ago)
Kill all these mother fuckers dont discriminate anyone with a beard
just kill him, anyone who speaks out just kill kill them all, God can
sort them out...
hurahman (8 months ago)
you have a problem...go see a doctor!!
Sub40H (8 months ago)
No idea why Hindus these days tend to copy the Muslims. Hindus were
traditionally flexible soft and merged easily with other cultures.
They lost a lot of wars to Christians & Muslims because of this.
Lately, a few Hindus feel that they have to pretend to be strong and
violent like the Islamists. They have started to persecute non-Hindus,
throwing out women from the pubs like the Mutaween in Saudi.
And they are having a lot of young followers too! Hope they all
convert to Islam soon.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
So you do admit Hindus like you are effeminate.
tupac175 (8 months ago)
From the looks of it....and the fact that you are getting OWNED in
this conversation (in addition to to you deleting the comments of
others' you can't respond to in your videos), I'd say YOU'RE the one
who's effeminate.
Hindus are docile and generally tolerant, but you would be loath to
mistake that tolerance for "effeminateness". They are more than
willing to rip you a new A-HOLE anytime you want....kiddo. And as a
proud Maratha who RAPED your so-called "ancestors", I am witness to
that fact.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Haaha! the frustrated 5yr old now discharged his verbal farts here as
well. Its like these kids wake up one fine morning & feel something is
missing from their lives. suddenly they realize they havent loggin in
to youtube that day n ranted on a Pakistani video to make themselves
feel better. Tsk Tsk, must be tough to deal with such hormonal
imbalance
tupac175 (8 months ago)
For all your vast "intellect", you have provided NO proof, NO
intelligent comments apart from spewing verbal diarrohea in true
Pukkistani fashion, have indulged in ad-hominems and useless diatribe
and have epitomized your so-called invented term of 'projection
accusation' to the hilt. Sub40H n others have all REAMED you in the
arse, and unable to take the heat you call them "5 yr olds" when it is
infact your intellectual capability that is at doubt...(to mention
nothing of your posting ethics).
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Haaha! The kid keeps repeating the same two-comments everywhere after
'removing' his own comments ten times because his attention-deficit-
disorder makes it difficult for him to form coherent comments or even
arguments..
The retard who has not provided a SINGLE IOTA of evidence of any sort
jst like his groupies Sub40H, etc is now asking for evidence himself
- a typical example of the Indian-kid mastered art of 'projection-
accusation'. Keep on entertaining us all please
tupac175 (8 months ago)
1- The RETARD here is you: you are the product of a race that are
CONGENITALLY INBRED RETARDS.
2- I provided you with no fewer than FOUR links (with the promise of
PROVIDING MORE) at YOUR behest that you 'removed' after having your
head SHOVED up your arse (where it belings). Shall I refresh your
attention-deficit-disorder impounded memory?
Mystz1: "Again this is not a video put up by your highschool Indian
buddies where ignorance is bliss. Keep comments on-topic, what this
video is about..."
mystz1 (8 months ago)
1. More racist talk from the ignorant runt.
2. Four links; ALL bangladeshi links for issues relating to 1971;
hardly 'credible' or 'unbiased'.
Exactly keep comments on topic instead wondering abt how I was bred
or how u lost ur sanity...
tupac175 (8 months ago)
1.You'd do far better answering my questions you ignorant cunt...And
for the record, I do believe I am superior to you. We Marathas have
earned the right after destroying ur Mongol ancestors LOLOLOL.
2.The genocide occurred in Bangladesh; ERGO the Bangladeshis are the
PRINCIPAL AUTHORITY about a genocide that was PERPETRATED ON THEM. Not
you, nor the putrid filth in ur media, nor any1 else. After all, why
would they lie? Aren't you always bragging about how good a
friendship you have with them?
mystz1 (8 months ago)
1. Haaha, the ignorant Indian runt proves that he is nothing but a
racist cunt.
2. There was NO genocide in Bangladesh; only a civil war, for which
both sides suffered while India took cheap opportunity out of it to
take 'revenge' on Pakistan for 1965 humiliation. Everyone believes in
the United Nations & that organization has NOT passed any resolution
saying 1971 was genocide so shut ur ignorant crass.
tupac175 (8 months ago)
The reason you've lost your sanity is BECAUSE of how you were bred.
Are you denying that your nation encourages conjugal unions between
first cousins? Answer the question retard! Even a cursory knowledge of
evolutionary biology (which you no doubt LACK) should tell you that
belonging to a nation that encourages CONSANGUINEOUS breeding means
that you belong to a nation of CONGENITALLY INBRED RETARDS.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Haaha! Most Hindus are inbred as well. A typical Brahman family
encourages its children to marry among 'bloodline' to keep it pure'
while shudras end up doing the same cuz the Brahmans will never marry
a shudra. It looks like the 'congenitally inbred' bastard is now going
to accuse others for the same. AMAZING! Jst another example of the
hypocritical art of 'projection-accusation' practiced by 5yr old
ignorant Indian retards. Tsk Tsk
tupac175 (8 months ago)
Pathetic! This proves you truly ARE a total retard. Marrying within a
'caste' that has no generationally lineal collateral consanguinity is
NOT the same as marrying someone with the same blood lineage, like a
first cousin for example. Your inability to grasp that simple concept
leaves me startled! A 'caste' is a system of social stratification
based on INHERITED PROFESSION, it has nothing to do with blood
linkages as your paltry mind would suggest. It is efficient,
structured and engenders...
tupac175 (8 months ago)
...productive efficiency through transmitted traits and skills from
one generation the the next- quite like the 'guilds' of medieval
Europe. Over the years, this concept has come to be abused by the
wealthy to perpetrate, and indeed perpetuate, economic
discrimination...just like the zealots have abused the name of Islam
and given it irrationally violent connotations to wage war on not just
kaafirs but on muslims as well (as the case of your own country quite
amply illustrates).
tupac175 (8 months ago)
The 'caste-system' of occupational social stratification was perhaps
the single-most responsible underlying social feature for the immense
wealth of ancient India. It has been plagued and polluted over the
years, indeed exacerbated to the point at which it has morphed into a
system of economic discrimination by British nepotism toward certain
communities in undivided India which drew their representation largely
from the higher castes. As a consequence, it is present in BOTH India
and Pakistan..
tupac175 (8 months ago)
The above at:
ht tp://ww w.youtube.c om/watch?v=ZhgBSkY1G3U
3-The "groupie" here is YOU: you one among the army of vermin from
your half-dicked nation that has proliferated on youtube and
perpetuated a "cyber-war" that interestingly they themselves began.
4-You find yourselves threatened: after all, your nation is at stake,
and UNABLE to do anything CONCRETE- you amass yourselves on youtube in
the vain hope that you will be doing your country a service by
sabrerattling your puerile mouth off.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
3. The Pakistan/Muslim obsessed maniac continues his verbal farts of
ignorance spewing filth to satisfy his hormonal imbalance.
4. No one here is threatened; u're the one feeling insecure &
desperate. YOU r the one hopping from one Pakistan-related video to
the next; obsessed and helpless by your ego's desire to be 'noticed'
and given attention to.
*yawn*, its the same ailment all Indian kids infesting Pakistan-
related videos suffer frm.. my sympathies!
MuslimLies (8 months ago)
mystz, its time for you to take the Quran/Hadis and wank at the part
where Muhammed the prophet put his head between Aisha's thighs because
her private part was too small for him.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Here enters another Muslim-obsessed Islamophobe. NO one is cursing
Hinduism here; why did u feel the need to curse & abuse Islam? Cuz
u're obsessed; you really have nothing else to do than bark endlessly
to make urself feel better before u have ur bedtime baby-milk
Sub40H (8 months ago)
I will give you a very simple reason as to why people like me and the
whole world is obsessed with "abusing" Islam.
Have you ever heard of the slogans "Islam will dominate the world",
"Allah willing, Islam will conquer every corner on this earth."
Now you can decide who is obsessed with who. We are just retaliating.
Take a look in the mirror yourself first.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Then go & obsess over that fact in videos that proclaim such things.
This video is neither abt Islam; nor its so-called desire to take over
the world. Your obsession has reached terminal stage. While you're at
the rehab, enjoy watching the following video where a prominent Hindu
leader is calling for Hinduism to take over the world - looks like u
got some house-cleaning to do.
youtube(dot)com/ watch ? v = y7D-kcayBL0
Sub40H (8 months ago)
Being at a rehab is far more safe than being obsessed with Jihad and
teaching holy war in a madrassah.
If Hinduism tries to copy the Muslims, we will resist that too. But
right now there is no such serious threat reported outside the
Pakistan media.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Haaha! Brahmo-fascists and Hindutva-terrorists are taking over India
and here you're busy obsessing over Pakistanis and Muslims..
First go tackle organizations like RSS/VHP/BajrangDal/ShivSena/Ab
hinavBharat and the lastest addition - Shiv Ram Sena whose cadres are
running around the streets of Delhi each weekend to pull Hindu women
out of pubs, bars, nightclubs by dragging them n beating them for
being 'immoral'.
Ur obsession with Islam is futile; u got much bigger things to worry
abt
Sub40H (8 months ago)
mystz1, why your comments must contain the words "hahaha"? Is it to
show your stupid followers that you are winning at ease?
I will surely "tackle" your "RSS/VHP/BajrangDal/ShivSena/A b
hinavBharat" etc, as soon as they are mentioned anywhere outside the
Pakistani media. Let them attack the Danish embassy or burn the effigy
of Geert Wilders on the streets of London first. Your pathetic attempt
in proving "Hindus are more violent than Pakis" to justify Muslim
extremism is making me laugh.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
So now you have a problem with me expressing my desire to laugh at
some of your ludicrous comments too? I see..
You truly do live a life of denial. Pakistani media? The debate on
Hindu Terorism has long left the parameters of Pakistani Media & has
been taken up by the International Media across the globe. Enjoy
reading the following report by BBC:
news(dot)bbc(dot)co(dot)uk/2/h i/south_ asia/7739541(dot)stm
And that is jst the TIP of the ice-berg; let me know when u're
prepared to read more
tupac175 (8 months ago)
3. The attention-starved Islamofascist freak affected by frequent
bouts of epileptic delusions due to his congenitally inbred retard
status spews more shit from his putrid sewer of a mouth instead of
speaking directly to the accusation. I take that as an acknowledgment
of his belonging to the army of rodents from his morally, spiritually,
economically, politically and militarily bankrupt country.
4. "..hopping from one Pakistan-related video to the next"...
LOLOLOL. CUTE! Except that...
tupac175 (8 months ago)
YOUR insecurity-I daresay FEAR, is justified by the fact that you
deleted all of my comments AFTER challenging me for proof (and getting
OWNED) on YOUR OWN video. Once again, DO NOT respond to me if you are
not ready to get your arse whooped. And for all your "video-hopping",
cyber-friend making and 3 HOUR log in sessions, it seems the sex-
starved rat that you are needs frequent attention to soothe his
volatile (& misplaced) ego.
Tell ur boyfriend he needs to spend some more time with you.
Sub40H (8 months ago)
tupac, if you are talking about the Pakiboy mystz1, I would say either
he is the outcome of an incest, or his mother was honor raped by the
Talibans because she was violated by a pig.
A retarded son of a Muslimah whore whose keywords are "kiddo" and
"hahaha". Leave him alone.
tupac175 (8 months ago)
5- I am MORE THAN WILLING to argue about the relative conditions of
minorities in India and your shit-of-a-nation anywhere..here if you
will! If you are not willing to be embarrassed and did not have the
ball to have me expose the reality of your pisshole, you should have
NEVER challenged me for proof in the 1st place
6- I find it amusing that a prick that logs on to youtube every THREE
hours can accuse someone of "wanting to log on to youtube every
morning". You are an ADDICT. Get a life son.
tupac175 (8 months ago)
5- I am MORE THAN WILLING to argue about the relative conditions of
minorities in India and your shit-of-a-nation anywhere..here if you
will! If you are not willing to be embarrassed and did not have the
BALLS to have me expose the reality of your pisshole, you should NEVER
have challenged me for proof in the 1st place
6- I find it amusing that a prick that logs on to youtube every THREE
hours can accuse someone of "wanting to log on to youtube every
morning". You are an ADDICT. Get a life son.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
5. Again more Pakistan-obsession by the retard. Neither is this video
abt Indian minorities; nor is the video uploaded by me in any way;
this kid's inferiority complex compels him to start talking abt topics
that these videos arent even related to
6. Now the prick who follows me around on youtube to see which videos
I'm posting comments on; jst so that he can jump him & satisfy his
hormonal cravings is going to accuse others. Get a life for yourself;
others will drop out of ur obsession radar.
tupac175 (8 months ago)
5. HAHAHAHAHA! You 've become a MASTER at the art of deflection, true
congenital retard that you are. You know full well what I'm talking
about kak-faced mafacka:
ht tp://w ww.youtube. co m/watch?v=ZhgBSkY1G3U
The Indian minority-obsessed p'stani mofo thinks that only HE has the
right to comment about Indian minorities in ANY video n others do not.
The same retard thinks we give a shit about his worthless nation when
his kindred folk are GLUED to Indian culture, t'vision and everything
Indian.
tupac175 (8 months ago)
6. The whore who thinks of herself so highly she thinks "I'm
following her around on youtube" (LOLOLOL) goes into hibernation
whenever she's OWNED In an argument. The b*tch is so desperate for a
f*ck by anyone other than her half-dicked men that she will take to
any flight of fancy to imagine that others are stalking her. Her own
nation is on the VERGE of destruction from her own traitorous people
and all she can do is post back-patting videos of a rally by her
Hindoo minorities in her nation...
tupac175 (8 months ago)
...as if THAT is indicative of the 'unity' n 'integrity' of her
nation! Meanwhile her sovereignty is being made an ARSEWIPE of every
day by American forces, with more to come, by the Taliban that have
virtually overridden the writ of the 'government' in every province
and r now at the VERY GATES of the HEART of the country itself: the
national capital. Amusing. The 'hormonal imbalance' (& the desperate
cravings thereafter) r quite evident..truly a product of RETARDS.
Again: Get a life
Dismissed
Sub40H (8 months ago)
@mystz: Seriously Paki boy, how old are you? 18? 19? Most of your
posts are full of personal attacks and "kiddo" is your favorite word
(Your dad still call you that and you are taking it off on Youtube).
Yet you are talking about evidence and arguments while yourself
showing none.
About entertainment, how about US led drones fucking your motherland
and killing your Talib brothers? Funny eh?
mystz1 (8 months ago)
the 5yr old questions the age of others.. alas! the ironies of life..
go & do ur homework kid; dont waste my time wid ur ignorant
gibberish.
ShitBeUponHim (8 months ago)
Paki kid mystz1 trying to show his sense of humor. Why dont you
answer straight how old are you? Nothing wrong to lie a bit in the
name of Allah!
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Just look in the mirror and see how old you are; come to terms with
it; add 10yrs to that to reach my age. Its not that difficult
Sub40H (8 months ago)
@mystz1: Unlike in Islam, being a female can actually be a matter of
pride. According to science, a woman has emotions that are more human,
such as kindness, love and sorrow.
Men are closer to animals, being less sensitive, having body hair and
growling voice.
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Sure, whatever makes u happy n sleep at night kid
MohummedsM8 (8 months ago)
Islamic terrorist fundamentalist bastards are the bane of the modern
world...
Fuck Islam!
mystz1 (8 months ago)
Here comes yet another Islamophobic child
drbilla (8 months ago)
Good to see Pakistan Army engaging the militants who have tried to
ruin the fabric of tribal society that has flourished for thousands of
years.
Bajaur has been cleared off of militants; Swat Op is close to being
completed. Pakistan Army should create an entire battalion-strength
unit only for Counter-Insurgency Ops.
subtle09 (8 months ago)
mystz1; these Indians are obsessed with these Pakistani videos! They
cannot resist watching them & then cursing and insulting even though
no one here is remotely talking about India or watever.
This video is about War on Terror; I'd be shocked if I can find ONE
comment by these Indians on War on Terror; except all I see is Muslims
this, Islam that; Pakistanis this, Pakistanis that.
Indians really dont have anything else to do it seems!
Sub40H (8 months ago)
Its pretty funny, when two main enemies of India, both of whom are
smartass sponsors of terrorism and proxy war all over the non-Islamic
world, are now forced into direct confrontation with each other by
the USA, who in turn created them in the first place.
God's justice works in mysterious ways.
MohummedsM8 (8 months ago)
fucking Muzzies terrorist fundamentalist bastards, kill them all
Sub40H (8 months ago)
Pakistanis consider Indians as inferior insects. Lying, mocking,
taunting everything is allowed on an Indian person except logical
arguments.
Some explain its because Indians are short and dark skinned (aka
racism), some say its because Indians worship cows and dicks
(religious intolerance). But the actual reason is plain and simple
jealousy. Pakistan's economic growth rate is 40% of that of India.
Sub40H (8 months ago)
Two main enemies of civilization, both of whom are sponsors of global
terrorism and proxy war over the non-Islamic world, are now forced
into direct confrontation with each other by the USA, who created them
in the first place.
Surely Allah does not love his ardent followers.
subtle09 (8 months ago)
whoa! mystz, keep it up; it seems the entire Indian posse is here to
tackle you. 6 different Indian users launching attacks on 1 Pakistani
guy.
I have not yet seen a single comment by any Indian in this video ABOUT
this video but everything else.
Sub40H (8 months ago)
Er, no subtle09 (there is some chance you are mystz1 himself): We are
not tackling mystz1, we are just having fun with his Muslim ego.
From experience, we have known that Pakistanis cannot stop replying.
They cannot admit the fact that they can lose. Even when they die they
have to chant "I am killing you, I win."
We enjoy this hypocrisy of denial while watching them die slowly.
subtle09 (8 months ago)
Ah yes; now I'm user 'mystz1' himself just because I dont agree with
your comments. I see how it is..
Perhaps it is you who uses dozen different youtube I.Ds so u cannot
help but think others do that too.
Other than that, the rest of your comment is more suited for yourself
and your kind; 6 Indians ganging up on 1 Pakistani in a Pakistani
video - obsession & shamelessness at its height.
Sub40H (8 months ago)
subtle09, its not a Pakistani video, its a Qatar video. If I am
shameless, you should feel more shame since 9 years back you used to
praise the same Talibans who you are killing now.
subtle09 (8 months ago)
What are you doing on a Qatar video criticizing Pakistanis then? I
dont see anything abt India being mentioned in the video; your
obsession is quite shocking. And like user mystz1 said; an inherent
desire to attract attention
As for Taliban; you should first reconcile with your Indian past when
once your country created & financed Tamil Tigers but then had to go
fight them in Sri Lanka where Indian Army failed miserably in doing
so.
Those who live in glass houses, do not throw stones. Remember
Sub40H (8 months ago)
What makes you think I am an Indian?
Sub40H (8 months ago)
I have never heard about Tamil Tigers. Its so sad, Indian terrorism
is not making headlines. The whole world media must be so biased
against Muslims!
subtle09 (8 months ago)
Sure you've never heard of Tamil Tigers - world's most dangerous
terrorist group that invented suicide bombing in the first place. Hope
you can read some of the 'unbiased' world media reporting on Hindu
Terrorism and the support Tamil Tigers have had from India over the
years
Hindu Terrorism
news(dot)bbc(dot)co(dot)uk/2/h i/south_ asia/7739541(dot)stm
in(dot)reuters(dot)com/article /topNews/idINIndia-36546420081 117
Indian Support for Tamil Tigers
thehindu(dot)com/fline/fl1424/ 14240260(dot)htm
Sub40H (8 months ago)
There is no report mentioning Tamil tigers are fighting for a
religious cause. Are you doing this on purpose, or you really believe
in all these crap reported on your TV alone?
subtle09 (8 months ago)
Your childish fighting with mystz1 along with 5 other Indians is more
than enough to tell me who you are.
Sub40H (8 months ago)
"Childish fighting". You mean calling people names and making personal
attacks is not childish when a Pakistani does it.
But when an infidel shows some evidence without makin personal
attacks, it is childish etc.
Paki lying at its worst!
subtle09 (7 months ago)
Please do tell us WHICH evidence you're talking about. All you've
been doing is the classic Indian art of whining left & right and
repeating the same comments back & forth but NO evidence.
mystz1 and I have given you evidence yet your ignorant mind fails to
accept harsh realities
Sub40H (7 months ago)
"Give us evidence" is the magic word to engage your opponent into
rigorous exercises while you can only sit back and deny whatever he
shows. Thats an usual Pakistani trick, the world knows that.
So evidences will be shown to others who will put pressure on you.
Thats how we deal with angry loser Pakistanis.
subtle09 (7 months ago)
'Give us evidence' is the key to unfolding your rhetorical polemic.
You know this, hence NO evidence thus far from you cuz you have
nothing to prove, only empty verbal farts..
Ignorant idiots like you are abundant on youtube who continue to make
repetitive claims in their comments while providing no evidence to
back their claims up - instead resorting to name-calling those who
wish to verify your so-called knowledge. A typical Indian approach
Sub40H (7 months ago)
For some people (not a Pakistani) empty farts are using words like
"ignorant" "idiot" against the opponent, and in the end accusing the
opponent of "name calling".
Actually thats not Pakistan, thats Islam itself.
subtle09 (7 months ago)
More vague ramblings of an empty can. Talk, talk, word play, and more
word play - nothing substantive, no evidence thus far. I guess thats
how things work in India & at the local Brahmo-fascist shaka..
Sub40H (7 months ago)
You are right, look at India's rate of growth and compare with yours.
They are more busy with economy while you are with spreading Islam and
fighting Jihads. Allah bless you.
subtle09 (7 months ago)
Yet again more Pakistan obsession by the Indian retard. His
inferiority complex makes it irresistible for him to compare India to
a country 6 times smaller in size & population. Bravo! Your knowledge
is truly as pathetic as expected.
Sub40H (7 months ago) Comment removed by author
Sub40H (7 months ago)
Pedo worshipper subtle09, Rate of growth is a FACTOR. It CAN be
compared. Total economy cannot be compared.
Now, read the rest of your own comment and try to cover up by making
some new personal attacks.
subtle09 (7 months ago)
Here we go; the kindergarten kid shows his true colors - love bitch
fighting like the ones he's used to at his school..
Rate of Growth depends on the size of human capital, resources,
geographical size, etc. You'd be nuts to compare a country 6 times the
size of the other.. Buy an Idiots Guide to Economics - am sure Indian
bookstores may have some in stock apart from Hitler's Mein Kampf -
best seller for shaka trained footsoldiers like yourself..
Sub40H (7 months ago)
So what are you doing? I am bitch fighting with you and you are....?
Being a human of course! Pakis can never go wrong until they have a
tongue to speak (or fingers to type). Only way to deal with a Paki is
an automated drone.
According to your "theory", UAE or South Korea, both tiny countries
should have much lower rate of growth than both India or pakistan, but
why the fact is just the opposite? Enlighten me o follower of the
pervert pedo killer.
subtle09 (7 months ago)
I'm not doing anything; jst letting you expos your true colors. I
provide the opportunity, you do the rest as always, typical of Indian
kids obsessed with Pakistan-related videos.
UAE has OIL; South Korea has strategic alliance with the United States
since the time of Korean War of '50s. Learn some history before
embarking up on your usual ignorant ramblings
Sub40H (7 months ago)
Pakistan has FAR better strategic alliance with the USA than India.
India's previous ally USSR has vanished in thin air. So why Pakistan
is halfway behind India? Doesnt it prove my original point that Islam
is dragging Pakistan behind?
By the way, bitch fighting needs two bitches, so you have called
yourself a bitch (that you will somehow try to deny now)
subtle09 (7 months ago)
Pakistan has never had a strategic alliance with the United States; it
has a strategic alliance with China. Perhaps you read your history
books upside down.. The scale of economic incentives that the United
States extended towards South Korea [post-Korean War] or even Japan
[post-WWII] have never been extended to Pakistan.. You r dragging your
feet over this now.
Bitch fighting does need two bitches; u're looking for one; I got none
here for your satisfaction. Sorry to disappoint
Sub40H (7 months ago)
If I was "looking" for a bitch, I should have roamed around board to
board, why am I stuck on this board with you? Because I have found
one! And you have consistently replied all of my posts, that makes you
the second bitch. Its amazing how Pakis lie and deny, Islam is great
in its teachings of crime.
subtle09 (7 months ago)
Same old rhetorical polemic. You have YET to make a decent comment
with some intellectual capacity. The only thing kids like you enjoy is
talking abt bitches & what not since obviously you had nothing left
to talk about when South Korea's & Japan's historical factors of
economic success were laid out for you
A waste of time talkin to a Brahmo-fascist knobjockey, a victim of
cognitive dissonance.
Sub40H (7 months ago)
More denial, lies and personal attacks as cover ups. From a person
who worships a pedophile pervert who executed around 300 people with
his own hands.
Ironic, that he likes to talk about decent comments and economic
successes of other countries except his!
subtle09 (7 months ago) Comment removed by author
subtle09 (7 months ago)
More projection-accusations from the Indian kid obsessed with
Pakistanis and Pakistan-related videos. *yawn* Come up with something
new & WITH some factual evidence for a change; Hindutva-fascist
footsoldier of Golwalkar's Nazi ideology.
surfgoogle (7 months ago)
You are completely wrong, you don't have any idea about economy in
that case, and are giving the advice to someone else to study Idiots
guide to Economics while the fact is that you are in dire need of that
lol
If Growth rate depends upon geographical size, then how come Japan
managed growth rate of 9% in 1960's and 70's?
It's a relative increase of the GDP that determines it,not absolute
quantity, do you even know what relative increase is lol?
subtle09 (7 months ago)
Obviously you need a history lesson to know that Japan was given
'preferential' treatment by the United States after having been nuked.
Japan's constitution was infact, also written by an American. So first
try & learn some history, then I shall advise you abt buying an
Idiots Guide to Economics for yourself
surfgoogle (7 months ago)
Dude you are right, forget trying to teach an idiot about it. They
only study Quran it seems, don't even have an idea about Mathematics,
then no point talking about economics to them lol.
Sub40H (7 months ago)
Pakistanis hate Hindus and Jews with passion. Whether there is any
logic or not, they have to lie, decieve, confuse a Hindu in any way
they can (as instructed in the Quran).
You can call them sad lowlives, but the irnoy is Pakistanis also have
the nature of calling others what they themselves are. Like they often
say Hindus are "terrorists" and "Zionists". So its like teaching a dog
to stop barking. Whatever you tell them, they will deny that and
return it back to you, until USA screws them.
surfgoogle (7 months ago)
Don't count on USA, they will screw up themselves in sometime, look at
so many islamic groups that have grown up in Pakistan fighting and
kill each other, no need for others to do anything they will end
eachother anyways.
subtle09 (7 months ago)
You should worry about the Hindutva-terrorist groups in India instead
of Islamist groups in Pakistan. Groups like RSS/VHP/ShivSena/RamSena/
Bajra ngDal/AbhinavBharat, etc are infiltrating all aspects of Indian
society & taking over India slowly while Indians like you continue to
obsess over Pakistan.
Sub40H (7 months ago)
Yes very true! Muslims are the number one killers of the Muslims.
Leave them alone in the "peace" of Sharia for a few years and they
will kill each other off this planet.
subtle09 (7 months ago)
Yes, they will decide on their own. Kids like you have nothing to
worry about. You will be killed by your own Hindutva-terrorists in the
name of Bharatvarsha & implementation of Manusmriti.
subtle09 (7 months ago)
More illogical comments from the ignorant afflicted soul. Thousands of
Hindus continue to live in Pakistan without any hindrance. The so-
called 'worlds largest democracy' is where Muslims, Sikhs, Christians
get slaughtered in their thousands every few years while their places
of worship [hint: Babri Mosque] are torn down in broad daylight while
the police watch as spectators. Talk of 'hating' coming from you is
quite rich indeed.
MePorkistani (7 months ago)
@subtle09, any idea if "Rangeelay Jawans" were able to figure out base
and nationality of drones
which they calling "suspected"? please help me to understand where do
they fly? from India or Israel? unless Saudi have baptized them into
Aab e ZamZam to make them HOLY?
subtle09 (7 months ago)
Here comes another Pakistan obsessed Indian. Worry about India, not
Pakistan. Places like Chattisgarh in the heart of India are no-go
zones for Indian Army & Police. Naxalies, now exert influence in 22
of India's 29 states compared to 15 a decade ago.
MePorkistani (7 months ago)
QUESTION REMAIN UN ANSWERED.If the "RANGEELAY MADERCHOOD" were able
to determine where do DRONES fly from? unless they have been made
"INVISIABLE" by some DADRI WALA General QUAKE with the help of Aab e
ZamZam.
subtle09 (7 months ago)
Question still remains; what a mentally challenged Indian kid is doing
whining on a Pakistan-related video after interrupting an ongoing
discussion between two other users - unless ofcourse as usual this
Indian kid is the same kid with 10 multiple I.Ds.
MePorkistani (7 months ago)
Marked as spam Porki kid, before running out of porkistan, did you
say : Nara e Khanzeer? otherwise you would have not run away Zinda
from that heaven of Islamic Peace" seems you are a blrelvi retard kid
fucked in some hujra.
Sub40H (7 months ago)
Pakis are flocking to the U.K. to get some part time janitor job or
free welfare which pays better than a white collar job in Pakistan.
Their full time job there will be defending Islam and spreading it to
the blacks and latinos and other losers like themselves, and often
stage road protests against USA and Israel blocking the roads used by
taxpayers whose money buys them food.
MuslimLies (7 month ago) Show Hide -9 Marked as spam Reply Marked
as spam
What discussion? I can only see frustrated swearings of a Paki liar to
other infidels who come to comment.
Dont worry Pakid, you will be without a country very soon. Pakistan
will be named Talibanistan. And your mom will be a Uzbek warlord's
fourth wife, since there are not enough women for all men to have 4
wives each. And probably you will have to marry your sister to give
birth to an autistic child (if not already).
MePorkistani (7 months ago)
Do not insult Uzbek, they will not fuck used porki cunts. hopefully
they will migrate to Mecca to have thier FINAL drink of Aab e ZamZam,
before they all commit sucide.
Sub40H (7 months ago)
Actually, there are a few taliban warlords of Uzbek origin presently
residing in NWFP. Maybe some Tazik or Kyrgyz too. But they are much
better humans than the act smart Punjabi Pakis who destroyed the whole
South Asia.
Like 20 years back USA and Pakistan together spoiled an innocent
country called Afghanistan. If God is there, in the future we will see
Peshawar merging with Afghanistan or a new Pashtonisthan on the world
map. Im sure Indians would give up Kashmir to see that.
MePorkistani (7 months ago)
you are tlaking about future? Peshawar is already merging with
afghanistan.
Sub40H (7 months ago)
Not officially yet. Places in NWFP had been long beyond Pak
government control for decades. There is no clear border between
Afghan and Pak in those areas & some parts are quasi independent for
long.
Pak cannot fight the Talibs because they need to prove their
credibility to the Muslim world, as Pakis are considered "Indian
refugees" by most of the middle east. So its the making of history,
and we will watch how much more Pak will have to sacrifice to make
them seem real Muslims to others.
Sub40H (7 months ago)
Places in NWFP have been beyond Pak government control for decades.
There is no clear border between Afghan and Pak in those areas & some
parts are quasi independent for long.
Pak cannot fight the Talibs because their prime goal is to prove their
credibility to the Muslim world as true Muslims. Since Pakis are
considered as "Indian refugees" by most of the middle east, so we will
have to watch how far Pak will go to make themselves credible and what
they can get in return.
zafarahsan100 (7 months ago)
I was shoked to read yr comments abt Pakis. For I have lived fr more
than 2 decades in the middle east and wonder what made you think like
that?
Secondly there is only Pakis on earth, and nothing like you mentioned.
But I know that there are Tamil Indians, Keralite indians gujrati
indians and many more!
subtle09 (7 months ago)
Typical - isn't it? Another ignorant Indian kid jumps in to help out a
fellow ignorant Indian soul. I'm more interested as to what they
teach in Brahmo-fascist shakas aside from Hitler's Mein Kampf
MohummedsM8 (8 months ago)
I think it's right to be Islamophobic, after all you should fear
something which is dangerous to you... For an Infidel / Kufir , Islam
is VERY dengerous.
I think that all out war with Islam is inevitable!
Choose your side, get you arms, and wait for the most bloody war
mankind has seen.
tupac175 (8 months ago)
...a fact you would do well to REMEMBER. Feel free to challenge me for
links to the same...
And do not for once think that I don't know what you're up to -
logging in with multiple id's and hitting the thumbs-down button so
you can "spam" my comments...filthy little rat! I always knew you
pisstanis were without honor- resorting to sneaky, underhanded tactics
whenever you're beaten in an argument and selling your souls for a
pittance (just look at your piss-poor nation for proof).
tupac175 (8 months ago)
Amusing, that while Pakistan plunges further into chaos, we have their
fanboys and army of detractors come everywhere onto youtube and mock
India --- even on a video that shows the stark - even MORBIDLY
OMINOUS- situation in their country! Truly, if I was an enemy of
India, I would want India to IGNORE the so-called "problems of their
federation", rather than highlight them and lead to their redressal. I
guess idiot pakistanis will never learn from their mistakes (be it
1948, 1965, 1971 or 1999)
Sub40H (8 months ago) Comment removed by author
Sub40H (8 months ago)
@tupac, Pakistanis can do a lot of things, but they cannot admit they
are losing. So even when they are dying, they have to say "I am
killing you!" "You lose!"
This explains Pakistan's shameless lying and jealosy towards its
rivals.
Islam teaches its followers to lie and decieve infidels, if it is
beneficial to the religion.
MePorkistani (8 months ago) Show Hide -7 Marked as spam Reply
Marked as spam
To all Porkis !! any comment about innocent Piotr Stanczek
slaughtered by peace loving muslims?
crazypindi (8 months ago)
Being a pakistani it is really a painful moment for us.I cannot
understand how military of a nation surrenders to a group of fanatic
rebels. We should condemn this act of National Shame. Now I can
imagine our fate in case India attacks on us.
Allah hamari Madad karo.
mystz1 (7 months ago)
It'll serve you better to stop pretending to be a Pakistani jst like
many of ur fellow Indian friends do cuz of an inherent obsession with
Pakistan. Yesterday, the Bajaur Taliban announced a unilateral,
unconditional and indefinite ceasefire with Pakistan Army since the
armed forces have taken over most of their positions. While today,
the Swat Taliban did the same; announcing an indefinite ceasefire
osanama11 (8 months ago)
we miss u mushrraf....!! talibans suks...!! zardari suks...!!
long live mushrraf...!!
basak983 (8 months ago)
fuk you punjabi mothrfuker. long live pushtunistan
osanama11 (8 months ago)
oyee maa k loray....tu ja kar bond maar apnat abu aur zardari ki :P
tum tou by birth gandu hotay hoo :P hege
MePorkistani (8 months ago) Show Hide -7 Marked as spam Reply
Marked as spam
@osanama11 Sahib, what is "bond"? is it investment certificate like
BOND or you are translating something of Punjabi?
I think you wish to say "GAAND" in Hindi.
basak983 (8 months ago)
FUCK PAKISTAN isi and long live Pushtonistan and my afghan brothers.
inshallah we will liberate paksitan of punjabis and fuking hindus. we
will rule as we have in past 100000 years.
saulpaulus (7 months ago)
This seems rather biased in favor of the militants. The US never armed
the Taliban. The CIA had armed militants against the Soviets who later
became Taliban.
The people in the Red Mosque were incredibly lawless and had to be
stopped. It was their decision to fight to the death. They could have
surrendered.
The alternative for Pakistan is to be ruled by Islamic militants. This
is the viper the ISI has nurtured for 60 years that is now biting it.
Pakistan is at war with itself.
bademiyansubhanallah
Taliban's Afghan allies tell Barack Obama: 'Cut us a deal and we'll
ditch al-Qaeda'
President Barack Obama's review of strategy in Afghanistan means
America will end up making a deal with the Taliban, and tolerating
warlords, to end the fighting.
By Nick Meo in Kabul
Published: 8:00AM BST 18 Oct 2009
Mullah Mutawakkil believes a settlement to end the war in Afghanistan
is possible Photo: AP
Down a rutted street in a quiet suburb of south Kabul lives a man the
CIA once locked in a cage for months as an enemy combatant.
Seven years later, Mullah Wakil Ahmed Mutawakkil, 38, who served as
foreign minister when the Taliban ran Afghanistan, may prove to be
President Barack Obama's best chance of ending the gruelling war in
Afghanistan - by enabling negotiations with America's enemies.
Mumbai attacks: India's relationship with Pakistan in the balanceSuch
a prospect would have seemed far-fetched only a year ago; but now, as
Mr Obama grapples with difficult Afghanistan decisions, faced with a
faltering Kabul government and a spreading insurgency, all options are
on the table.
Some of them may seem distinctly unsavoury for a president elected as
a liberal idealist - in particular the notion of doing deals with
Taliban commanders, and empowering former warlords and tribal leaders
who have blood on their hands and in many cases hatred in their
hearts.
But America's desperation to regain the initiative in an increasingly
unpopular war has already produced some remarkable changes, and
uncomfortable moral compromises are now on the agenda.
Among them, the Obama administration has indicated that it intends to
make a fresh attempt to engage more moderate Taliban groups in talks
with the Afghan government - in a determined effort to woo at least
some of them away from the fighting that is claiming increasing
numbers of American and other Nato forces' lives.
Mullah Mutawakkil, once a confidant of the one-eyed Taliban leader,
Mullah Mohammed Omar, was held at a US base in Kandahar in 2002 after
he gave himself up to American troops.
Now he is being politely wooed by a stream of senior US officials who
make discreet visits to his villa, which is guarded by armed police,
to hear his thoughts on what the Taliban mood is like and whether any
of its leaders are ready for talks.
A soft-spoken and intelligent man who was one of the Taliban regime's
youngest ministers, Mullah Mutawakkil is cautious about what can be
achieved, but even so his thinking is music to tired Western ears.
He believes that the Taliban would split from what he called their al-
Qaeda "war allies" if a deal was within reach. Speaking to The Sunday
Telegraph in the guest room of his Kabul home, he insisted that a
settlement to end the war was possible – and that it would be the
West's best chance of stopping terrorists from turning Afghanistan
back into their base again.
"If the Taliban fight on and finally became Afghanistan's government
with the help of al-Qaeda, it would then be very difficult to separate
them," he warned.
But there is, he says, another option. Taliban leaders are looking for
guarantees of their personal safety from the US, and a removal of the
"bounties" placed on the head of their top commanders. They also want
a programme for the release of prisoners held at the notorious Bagram
US air base in Afghanistan, and at Guantanamo Bay.
In return, he says, the Taliban would promise not to allow Afghanistan
to be used to plan attacks on America – the original reason for
American invervention, and the overriding aim of US policy in the
region.
"The United States has a right to be confident that every government,
whether Taliban or any other kind of government, would guarantee not
to threaten America," he said.
The former foreign minister believes the Taliban understands that
Afghanistan has changed since they were driven from power. They want a
nation governed by strict Islamic laws but realise they cannot turn
the clock back, he said.
He cautioned that negotiations would not be easy. "I am not an
optimist. But talking would be better than war," he said.
The new American thinking is that what they deem the "nationalist"
Afghan Taliban may be divided from its more extreme elements - and
also from al-Qaeda, whose cohorts of foreign fighters are interested
almost exclusively in jihad against the West.
Mr Obama is expected to announce up to 45,000 more US troops and an
accompanying surge in spending on development projects, as part of the
battle to win "hearts and minds".
But after eight painful years American officials have come to
recognise that military and financial might are not enough to prevail
in a land of baffling ethnic and tribal complexity. Some form of
political reconciliation is needed as well.
"If you don't have both a military and a political strategy, you can't
have either," a Western official said, describing the new thinking.
With that in mind, President Obama has recently spoken of al-Qaeda and
"extremist elements" as America's main problem - not the Taliban. Such
careful language seems aimed at opening a door to talks.
When Mullah Mutawakkil was a member of the Taliban government, he was
respected by many ordinary Afghans and regarded by Western diplomats
as a "moderate" who wanted to open the fundamentalist regime to the
outside world.
As one of the few senior Taliban figures to be reconciled to the new
Afghan way of government, he is in touch by telephone with old
comrades who are still fighting. His contacts with officials from the
US Embassy in Kabul and from the office of US special envoy Richard
Holbrooke have increased in recent weeks.
"They come and listen carefully, but at the moment they don't say
much," he said with a wry grin. "Until the US wants peace, there will
be no peace."
This weekend, America's efforts - and those of other countries engaged
in Afghanistan - are focused on forcing the pace in frantic
negotiations over how to end the almost two-month impasse over the
presidential election. It is widely expected to be announced over the
next few days that too many of Mr Karzai's votes were fraudulently
cast for him to be the outright victor.
Afghanistan's constitution requires that if no candidate secures more
than 50 per cent of the votes, there must be a run-off between the two
leading contenders.
Now there is huge international pressure on Mr Karzai to accept
whatever is the result of the ballot-stuffing inquiry. There is also
pressure on both him and Dr Abdullah Abdullah, the former eye surgeon
and briefly foreign minister who is his challenger, to agree a deal
that would somehow avoid a second round of the election, with all the
security and logistical problems that would bring.
In public, neither is willing to compromise as yet, though their aides
are said to be talking urgently behind the scenes.
However the election is resolved, the new goverment will face the same
dilemma about talking with the Taliban - and making deals with men
like Arsalan Rahmani, 70, who was Islamic affairs minister under the
Taliban but is now a senator in the Afghan parliament.
"The Taliban accept weapons and money from al Qaeda for their war," he
said. "But if the Taliban had a good relationship with the government
they would get rid of al Qaeda because then they wouldn't need them
any more."
He insisted that only a minority of the Afghan fighters were
hardliners driven by religious fervour. "Some are fighting to go to
paradise, but among the Taliban leaders most want peace. Afghanistan
is their homeland and they want peace here."
The senator said the majority of the movement's leadership council,
based in the Pakistani city of Quetta, was ready to take part in
negotiations, but not Mullah Omar, the Taliban's leader who is close
to bin Laden.
The price of an eventual deal could be allowing Taliban governors to
take over southern provinces – perhaps Helmand and Kandahar - the
imposition of strict religious laws, and allowing former insurgents to
take government posts.
Senator Rahmani, a former Islamic affairs minister under the Taliban,
said that the foreign fighters who have flocked to the Pakistan
badlands for jihad against America would prove a problem for
negotiations. He compared the al-Qaeda men to hardliners on the US
side who want to fight until they achieve total victory.
Last year in Saudi Arabia, Mullah Mutawakkil and Senator Rahmani met
Afghans connected to the Taliban in an attempt to gauge the chances of
serious talks getting under way.
New clandestine negotiations are expected to restart in the next few
weeks, with a Western diplomatic source in Kabul describing current
political conditions for talks as "benign".
Out in the wartorn provinces, the US military's finest brains are
trying to work out new counter-insurgency strategies involving setting
up tribal militias and buying the loyalties of Taliban commanders and
small-time warlords.
Meanwhile, Western diplomats in the Afghan capital no longer enthuse
about women's rights, democracy and nation-building; but they do talk
about working with "traditional figures" – a new Kabul euphemism for
the warlords expected to win a place within a re-elected government
led by President Hamid Karzai.
America tried hard to stop Mr Karzai from making secret deals with
powerful former warlords before the election, and failed.
US officials are most troubled at the return of the powerful Tajik
leader Marshal Mohammad Fahim, the former leader of the Northern
Alliance forces which swept the Taliban out of Kabul in 2001. For
several years he was a key American ally, but US officials finally
forced him from power in 2004, only to see him make a comeback this
year when president Karzai named him as running mate.
He will almost certainly be vice-president, and may be sitting in
cabinet along with a gruesome line-up of old warlords.
Others who may wield real power include Karim Khalili, a leader of the
Hazara ethnic minority, and Ishmael Khan, an immensely wealthy former
guerrilla leader from the western city of Herat.
"Expect a colourful line-up for the cabinet of tribal leaders, old
warlords, and efficient western-educated bureaucrats," one Western
official in Kabul said.
A Western-educated Afghan who works for an international agency put it
another way. "Where are the leaders who we can trust? Everyone is fed
up because of the election and corruption."
Diplomats are trying to pressure President Karzai to leave technocrats
in real control; they dread the prospect of a cabinet stuffed with
warlords, or the sons and placemen of warlords.
They are investing their hopes in some of the more effective ministers
who have been appointed in the past year, politicians who could start
to tackle corruption and persuade Afghans that the government offers a
better life than the Taliban.
If Western officials do not manage to improve the quality of
administration, they know the Taliban is now only a few miles outside
Kabul, waiting for the government to fail - and that after the debacle
of the election, ordinary Afghans has rarely been so demoralised.
Some admit they are tempted by the allure of the Taliban, which at
least might provide a government free from corruption. Others are
warning of a second exodus of talented Afghans, like that which
occurred when the Taliban ran the country.
"I came back to Afghanistan from a Pakistan refugee camp in 2002
expecting a better life and for a while we were happy," said Waleed
Masood, a student aged 23. "But Afghanistan is a killing ground now
even in Kabul with so many bombs. I want to get out. Perhaps I will
try to go to England."
bademiyansubhanallah
Barack Obama vows to 'dismantle' al-Qaeda and Taliban in Afghanistan
and Pakistan
President Barack Obama set out a bold new strategy to "disrupt, defeat
and dismantle" al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan on
Friday by raising the US military force in Afghanistan to more than
60,000 personnel.
By Toby Harnden in Washington
Published: 10:50PM GMT 27 Mar 2009
Mr Obama's announcement was part of a comprehensive new policy to
deal with both Afghanistan and the border regions of Pakistan Photo:
AP
In his first major announcement as America's new commander-in-chief,
Mr Obama said the situation in Afghanistan was "increasingly perilous"
and required an extra 4,000 soldiers to join the additional 17,000
combat troops the United States had already committed to tackle the
most dangerous provinces in eastern Afghanistan, and Helmand and
Kandahar in the south.
The US President sent a mesasge to extremists as he promised to rout
out the "cancer that risks killing Pakistan from within" by increasing
aid to the country to $1.5 billion (£1 billion) a year over five
years.
Soldier's death fuels fears of major Taliban offensiveBritain was
likely to be pressed to send up to 2,000 more combat troops, bringing
its force levels to 10,000 in southern Afghanistan. Mr Obama was
expected to appeal directly to Gordon Brown when they meet at the G20
summit in London next week.
Mr Obama resisted sending in the 30,000 reinforcements initially
recommended by military commanders and said he would reassess troop
levels over the next year.
It marked the moment when Mr Obama took "ownership" of the war in
Afghanistan and responsibility for its end, but he did not repeat an
earlier reference to finding an "exit strategy". Some on the Left
feared that it could doom his presidency in the way that Vietnam
affected President Lyndon Johnson's. Mr Obama said the 4,000 extra
troops would be deployed in a training role with the Afghan police and
the national army, which the US wanted to double in size to 134,000
men in the next two years.
But the scale of the challenge in building an indigenous professional
fighting force was underlined when an Afghan soldier shot and killed
two coalition troops before killing himself.
Violence in Pakistan – the problems of which Mr Obama said must be
tackled for progress to be made in Afghanistan – also raged with a
suicide bomber killing 50 people at a mosque.
Mr Obama insisted that "this is not simply an American problem".
Appealing to America's allies for a greater commitment to Afghanistan,
and justifying the extra troops to his domestic audience, he described
the region as "an international security challenge of the highest
order" and said that the border region between Afghanistan and
Pakistan as "the most dangerous place in the world".
"Terrorist attacks in London and Bali were tied to al-Qaeda and its
allies in Pakistan, as were attacks in North Africa and the Middle
East, in Islamabad and Kabul," he said.
"If there is a major attack on an Asian, European or African city, it,
too, is likely to have ties to al-Qaeda's leadership in Pakistan."
The announcement was part of a comprehensive new policy to deal with
both Afghanistan and the border regions of Pakistan, where Osama bin
Laden is believed to be hiding.
"Al-Qaeda and its allies, the terrorists who planned and supported the
9/11 attacks, are in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Mr Obama said in
ominous tones, telling Americans that the Afghan war was not an
overseas adventure "of choice" like Iraq but directly linked to
protecting the US.
"Intelligence estimates have warned that al-Qaeda is planning attacks
on the United States homeland from its safe haven in Pakistan.
"And if the Afghan government falls to the Taliban or allows al-Qaeda
to go unchallenged, that country will again be a base for terrorists
who want to kill as many of our people as they possibly can."
He announced the setting up of a regional group on Afghanistan that
would include Iran, whose nuclear ambitions and desire to eradicate
Israel led to it being ostracised by the US.
bademiyansubhanallah
barack Obama's strategy for Afghanistan and Iraq: speech in full
US President Barack Obama set out his strategy in Afghanistan and
Pakistan on Friday. Here is the full text of Mr Obama's speech.
Published: 11:58PM GMT 27 Mar 2009
PRESIDENT OBAMA: Good morning. Please be seated.
Before I begin today, let me acknowledge first of all Your
Excellencies, all the ambassadors who are in attendance.
Barack Obama faces testing time to deliver campaign promisesI also
want to acknowledge both the civilians and our military personnel that
are about to be deployed to the region. And I am very grateful to all
of you for your extraordinary work.
I want to acknowledge General David Petraeus, who's here and has been
doing an outstanding job at CENTCOM. And we appreciate him.
I want to thank Bruce Riedel -- Bruce is down at the end here -- who
has worked extensively on our strategic review. I want to acknowledge
Karl Eikenberry, who is here and is our ambassador- designate to
Afghanistan. And to my national security team, thanks for their
outstanding work.
Today I'm announcing a comprehensive new strategy for Afghanistan and
Pakistan. And this marks the conclusion of a careful policy review,
led by Bruce, that I ordered as soon as I took office.
My administration has heard from our military commanders as well as
our diplomats.
We've consulted with the Afghan and Pakistani governments, with our
partners and our NATO allies and with other donors and international
organizations. We've also worked closely with members of Congress here
at home. And now I'd like to speak clearly and candidly to the
American people.
The situation is increasingly perilous. It's been more than seven
years since the Taliban was removed from power. Yet war rages on.
Insurgents control parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Attacks against
our troops, our NATO allies and the Afghan government have risen
steadily. And most painfully 2008 was the deadliest year of the war
for American forces.
Many people in the United States, and many in partner countries that
have sacrificed so much, have a simple question. What is our purpose
in Afghanistan? After so many years, they ask, why do our men and
women still fight and die there? And they deserve a straightforward
answer.
So let me be clear. Al Qaeda and its allies, the terrorists who
planned and supported the 9/11 attacks, are in Pakistan and
Afghanistan.
Multiple intelligence estimates have warned that al Qaeda is actively
planning attacks on the United States homeland from its safe haven in
Pakistan. And if the Afghan government falls to the Taliban or allows
al Qaeda to go unchallenged, that country will again be a base for
terrorists who want to kill as many of our people as they possibly
can.
The future of Afghanistan is inextricably linked to the future of its
neighbour Pakistan. In the nearly eight years since 9/11, al Qaeda and
its extremist allies have moved across the border to the remote areas
of the Pakistani frontier.
This almost certainly includes al Qaeda's leadership, Osama bin Laden
and Ayman al-Zawahiri. They have used this mountainous terrain as a
safe haven to hide, to train terrorists, to communicate with
followers, to plot attacks, and to send fighters to support the
insurgency in Afghanistan.
For the American people, this border region has become the most
dangerous place in the world. But this is not simply an American
problem; far from it. It is instead an international security
challenge of the highest order.
Terrorist attacks in London and Bali were tied to al Qaeda and its
allies in Pakistan, as were attacks in North Africa and the Middle
East, in Islamabad and in Kabul. If there is a major attack on an
Asian, European or African city, it too is likely to have ties to al
Qaeda leadership in Pakistan. The safety of people around the world is
at stake.
For the Afghan people, the return to Taliban rule would condemn their
country to brutal governance, international isolation, a paralysed
economy and the denial of basic human rights to the Afghan people,
especially women and girls.
The return in force of al Qaeda terrorists who would accompany the
core Taliban leadership would cast Afghanistan under the shadow of
perpetual violence.
As president, my greatest responsibility is to protect the American
people. We are not in Afghanistan to control that country or to
dictate its future. We are in Afghanistan to confront a common enemy
that threatens the United States, our friends and our allies, and the
people of Afghanistan and Pakistan who have suffered the most at the
hands of violent extremists.
So I want the American people to understand that we have a clear and
focused goal to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al Qaeda in Pakistan and
Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the
future. That's the goal that must be achieved. That is a cause that
could not be more just.
And to the terrorists who oppose us, my message is the same: We will
defeat you.
To achieve our goals, we need a stronger, smarter and comprehensive
strategy. To focus on the greatest threat to our people, America must
no longer deny resources to Afghanistan because of the war in Iraq. To
enhance the military, governance and economic capacity of Afghanistan
and Pakistan, we have to marshal international support. And to defeat
an enemy that heeds no borders or laws of war, we must recognize the
fundamental connection between the future of Afghanistan and Pakistan;
which is why I've appointed Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, who is here,
to serve as special representative for both countries, and to work
closely with General Petraeus to integrate our civilian and military
efforts.
Let me start by addressing the way forward in Pakistan. The United
States has great respect for the Pakistani people. They have a rich
history and have struggled against long odds to sustain their
democracy. The people of Pakistan want the same things that we want:
an end to terror, access to basic services, the opportunity to live
their dreams and the security that can only come with the rule of law.
The single greatest threat to that future comes from al Qaeda and
their extremist allies, and that is why we must stand together. The
terrorists within Pakistan's borders are not simply enemies of America
or Afghanistan; they are a grave and urgent danger to the people of
Pakistan. Al Qaeda and other violent extremists have killed several
thousand Pakistanis since 9/11. They've killed many Pakistani soldiers
and police.
They assassinated Benazir Bhutto. They've blown up buildings, derailed
foreign investment and threatened the stability of the state.
So make no mistake, al Qaeda and its extremist allies are a cancer
that risks killing Pakistan from within.
It's important for the American people to understand that Pakistan
needs our help in going after al Qaeda. This is no simple task.
The tribal regions are vast, they are rugged and they are often
ungoverned. And that's why we must focus our military assistance on
the tools, training and support that Pakistan needs to root out the
terrorists.
And after years of mixed results, we will not and cannot provide a
blank check. Pakistan must demonstrate its commitment to rooting out
al Qaeda and the violent extremists within its borders. And we will
insist that action be taken, one way or another, when we have
intelligence about high-level terrorist targets.
The government's ability to destroy these safe havens is tied to its
own strength and security. To help Pakistan weather the economic
crisis, we must continue to work with the IMF, the World Bank and
other international partners. To lessen tensions between two nuclear
armed nations that too often teeter on the edge of escalation and
confrontation, we must pursue constructive diplomacy with both India
and Pakistan. To avoid the mistakes of the past, we must make clear
that our relationship with Pakistan is grounded in support for
Pakistan's democratic institutions and the Pakistani people. And to
demonstrate through deeds as well as words a commitment that is
enduring, we must stand for lasting opportunity.
A campaign against extremism will not succeed with bullets or bombs
alone. Al Qaeda's -- offers the people of Pakistan nothing but
destruction. We stand for something different. So today I'm calling
upon Congress to pass a bipartisan bill co-sponsored by John Kerry and
Richard Lugar that authorizes $1.5 billion in direct support to the
Pakistani people every year over the next five years, resources that
will build school and roads and hospitals and strengthen Pakistan's
democracy.
I'm also calling on Congress to pass a bipartisan bill co-sponsored by
Maria Cantwell, Chris Van Hollen and Peter Hoekstra that creates
opportunity zones in the border regions to develop the economy and
bring hope to places plagued with violence.
And we will ask our friends and allies to do their part, including at
the donors' conference in Tokyo next month.
I don't ask for this support lightly. These are challenging times.
Resources are stretched. But the American people must understand that
this is a down payment on our own future, because the security of
America and Pakistan is shared. Pakistan's government must be a
stronger partner in destroying these safe havens, and we must isolate
al Qaeda from the Pakistani people.
These steps in Pakistan are also indispensable to our efforts in
Afghanistan, which will see no end to violence if insurgents move
freely back and forth across the border.
Security demands a new sense of shared responsibility, and that's why
we will launch a standing trilateral dialogue among the United States,
Afghanistan and Pakistan. Our nations will meet regularly, with
Secretary Clinton and Secretary Gates leading our effort. Together we
must enhance intelligence sharing and military cooperation along the
border, while addressing issues of common concern, like trade, energy
and economic development.
This is just one part of a comprehensive strategy to prevent
Afghanistan from becoming the al Qaeda safe haven that it was before
9/11. To succeed, we and our friends and allies must reverse the
Taliban's gains and promote a more capable and accountable Afghan
government.
Our troops have fought bravely against a ruthless enemy. Our civilians
have made great sacrifices. Our allies have borne a heavy burden.
Afghans have suffered and sacrificed for their future.
But for six years Afghanistan has been denied the resources that it
demands because of the war in Iraq. Now we must make a commitment that
can accomplish our goals.
I've already ordered the deployment of 17,000 troops that had been
requested by General McKiernan for many months. These soldiers and
Marines will take the fight to the Taliban in the south and the east,
and give us a greater capacity to partner with Afghan security forces
and to go after insurgents along the border. This push will also help
provide security in advance of the important presidential elections in
Afghanistan in August.
At the same time, we will shift the emphasis of our mission to
training and increasing the size of Afghan security forces, so that
they can eventually take the lead in securing their country.
That's how we will prepare Afghans to take responsibility for their
security and how we will ultimately be able to bring our own troops
home.
For three years, our commanders have been clear about the resources
they need for training, and those resources have been denied because
of the war in Iraq. Now that will change. The additional troops that
we deployed have already increased our training capacity. And later
this spring, we will deploy approximately 4,000 US troops to train
Afghan security forces. For the first time, this will truly resource
our effort to train and support the Afghan army and police.
Every American unit in Afghanistan will be partnered with an Afghan
unit, and we will seek additional trainers from our NATO allies to
ensure that every Afghan unit has a coalition partner. We will
accelerate our efforts to build an Afghan army of 134,000 and a police
force of 82,000 so that we can meet these goals by 2011. And increases
in Afghan forces may very well be needed as our plans to turn over
security responsibility to the Afghans go forward.
And this push must be joined by a dramatic increase in our civilian
efforts. Afghanistan has an elected government, but it is undermined
by corruption and has difficulty delivering basic services to its
people. The economy is undercut by a booming narcotics trade that
encourages criminality and funds the insurgency.
The people of Afghanistan seek the promise of a better future.
And once again we've seen the hope of a new day darkened by violence
and uncertainty. So to advance security, opportunity and justice, not
just in Kabul but from the bottom up, in the provinces, we need
agricultural specialists and educators, engineers and lawyers. That's
how we can help the Afghan government serve its people and develop an
economy that isn't dominated by illicit drugs.
And that's why I'm ordering a substantial increase in our civilians on
the ground. That's also why we must seek civilian support from our
partners and allies, from the United Nations and the international aid
organizations, an effort that Secretary Clinton will carry forward
next week in The Hague.
At a time of economic crisis, it's tempting to believe that we can
short-change the civilian effort. But make no mistake: Our efforts
will fail in Afghanistan and Pakistan if we don't invest in their
future. And that's why my budget includes indispensable investments in
our State Department and foreign assistance programs.
These investments relieve the burden on our troops. They contribute
directly to security.
They make the American people safer. And they save us an enormous
amount of money, in the long run, because it's far cheaper to train a
policeman to secure his or her own village than to help a farmer seed
a crop or to help a farmer seed a crop than it is to send our troops
to fight tour after tour of duty, with no transition to Afghan
responsibility.
As we provide these resources, the days of unaccountable spending, no-
bid contracts and wasteful reconstruction must end. So my budget will
increase funding for a strong inspector general, at both State
Department and USAID, and include robust funding for special inspector
generals for Afghan reconstruction.
I want to be clear. We cannot turn a blind eye to the corruption that
causes Afghans to lose faith in their own leaders. Instead we will
seek a new compact with the Afghan government that cracks down on
corrupt behaviour and sets clear benchmarks, clear metrics for
international assistance, so that it is used to provide for the needs
of the Afghan people.
In a country with extreme poverty that's been at war for decades,
there will also be no peace without reconciliation among former
enemies.
Now, I have no illusion that this will be easy. In Iraq, we had
success in reaching out to former adversaries to isolate and target al
Qaeda in Iraq. We must pursue a similar process in Afghanistan, while
understanding that it is a very different country.
There is an uncompromising core of the Taliban. They must be met with
force. And they must be defeated. But there are also those who have
taken up arms because of coercion or simply for a price.
These Afghans must have the option to choose a different course.
And that's why we will work with local leaders, the Afghan government
and international partners to have a reconciliation process in every
province.
As their ranks dwindle, an enemy that has nothing to offer the Afghan
people, but terror and repression, must be further isolated. And we
will continue to support the basic human rights of all Afghans,
including women and girls.
Going forward, we will not blindly stay the course.
Instead, we will set clear metrics to measure progress and hold
ourselves accountable. We'll consistently assess our efforts to train
Afghan security forces and our progress in combating insurgents. We
will measure the growth of Afghanistan's economy, and its illicit
narcotics production. And we will review whether we are using the
right tools and tactics to make progress towards accomplishing our
goals.
None of the steps that I've outlined will be easy. None should be
taken by America alone. The world cannot afford the price that will
come due if Afghanistan slides back into chaos or al Qaeda operates
unchecked. We have a shared responsibility to act; not because we seek
to project power for its own sake, but because our own peace and
security depends on it. And what's at stake at this time is not just
our own security. It's the very idea that free nations can come
together on behalf of our common security. That was the founding cause
of NATO six decades ago, and that must be our common purpose today.
My administration is committed to strengthening international
organizations and collective action, and that will be my message next
week in Europe. As America does more, we will ask others to join us in
doing their part. From our partners and NATO allies, we will seek not
simply troops, but rather clearly-defined capabilities supporting the
Afghan elections, training Afghan security forces, a greater civilian
commitment to the Afghan people.
For the United Nations, we seek greater progress for its mandate to
coordinate international action and assistance and to strengthen
Afghan institutions. And finally, together with the United Nations, we
will forge a new contact group for Afghanistan and Pakistan that
brings together all who should have a stake in the security of the
region: our NATO allies and other partners, but also the Central Asian
states, the Gulf nations, and Iran, Russia, India and China. None of
these nations benefit from a base for al Qaeda terrorists and a region
that descends into chaos. All have a stake in the promise of lasting
peace and security and development.
And that is true above all for the coalition that has fought together
in Afghanistan side-by-side with Afghans. You know, the sacrifices
have been enormous. Nearly 700 Americans have lost their lives. Troops
from over 20 countries have also paid the ultimate price.
All Americans honour the service and cherish the friendship of those
who have fought and worked and bled by our side. And all Americans are
awed by the service of our own men and women in uniform, who've borne
a burden as great as any other generation's. They and their families
embody the example of selfless sacrifice.
I remind everybody, the United States of America did not choose to
fight a war in Afghanistan. Nearly 3,000 of our people were killed on
September 11th, 2001, for doing nothing more than going about their
daily lives. Al Qaeda and its allies have since killed thousands of
people in many countries. Most of the blood on their hands is the
blood of Muslims, who al Qaeda has killed and maimed in far greater
number than any other people.
That is the future that al Qaeda is offering to the people of Pakistan
and Afghanistan, a future without hope or opportunity, a future
without justice or peace. So understand, the road ahead will be long,
and there will be difficult days ahead. But we will seek lasting
partnerships with Afghanistan and Pakistan that promise a new day for
their people. And we will use all elements of our national power to
defeat al Qaeda and to defend America, our allies, and all who seek a
better future.
Because the United States of America stands for peace and security,
justice and opportunity. That is who we are, and that is what history
calls on us to do once more.
Thank you. God bless you. God bless the United States of America.
bademiyansubhanallah
Sunday, 18 October 2009, 10:13 EDT
Taliban fight back against Pakistan offensive
Pakistan Army troops prepare to leave for patrolling during a curfew
in Bannu, a town on the edge of Pakistan's lawless tribal belt
Waziristan, Saturday, Oct. 17, 2009. AP photo
The Associated Press
Fighting in the Sarwaki area left one soldier and seven militants
dead.
Pakistan Militants clashed with Pakistani troops advancing into their
main sanctuary near the Afghan border Sunday amid signs the army faces
a far tougher fight than in other assaults against al-Qaida and the
Taliban in the northwest.
The operation in South Waziristan follows repeated requests from the
U.S. to take on the jihadists behind soaring terrorist attacks in the
nuclear-armed nation and al-Qaida and other extremists believed to be
plotting strikes in the West.
The push involves mostly poorly equipped soldiers trained to fight
conventional wars, not counterinsurgency operations, who have failed
in three other campaigns in the mountainous region since 2004. The
region is almost wholly under Taliban control.
Reporters are blocked from visiting the region, but accounts Sunday
suggested that the 30,000 troops were in for a bloodier time than in
the Swat Valley, another northwestern region that the army
successfully wrestled away from insurgents earlier this year.
"Militants are offering very tough resistance to any movement of
troops," Ehsan Mahsud, a resident of Makeen, a town in the region,
told The Associated Press in the town of Mir Ali, close to the battle
zone. He and a friend arrived there early Sunday after traveling
through the night.
Fighting early Sunday in the Sarwaki area left one soldier and seven
militants dead, said intelligence officials on condition of anonymity
because they were not authorized to speak to media. Authorities said
Saturday five soldiers and 11 insurgents had been killed on the first
day of the campaign.
Mahsud said the army appeared to be mostly relying on air strikes and
artillery against militants occupying high ground. He said the
insurgents were firing heavy machine guns at helicopter gunships,
forcing the air force to use higher-flying jets.
The army is up against about 10,000 local militants and about 1,500
foreign fighters, most of them from Central Asia. They control roughly
1,275 square miles (3,310 square kilometers) of territory, or about
half of South Waziristan, in areas loyal to former militant chief
Baitullah Mehsud, who was killed in a U.S. missile strike in August.
Officials have said they envisage the operation will last two months.
A resident in the town of Wana in the heart of Taliban-held territory
said the insurgents had left the town and were stationed on the
borders of the region, determined to block any army advance.
"All the Taliban who used to be around here have gone to take their
position to protect the Mehsud boundary," Azamatullah Wazir said by
phone Sunday. "The army will face difficulty to get in there."
Intelligence officials said Saturday that the ground troops were
advancing on two flanks and a northern front of a central part of
South Waziristan controlled by the Mehsuds. The areas being surrounded
include the insurgent bases of Ladha and Makeen, the officials said on
condition of anonymity because they were not allowed to brief the
media.
As many as 150,000 civilians possibly more have left in recent months
after the army made clear it was planning an assault, but as many as
350,000 could still be in the region. The United Nations has been
stockpiling relief supplies in a town near the region, but authorities
are not expecting a major refugee crisis like the one that occurred
during the offensive this year in the Swat Valley.
Over the last three months, the Pakistani air force has been bombing
targets, while the army has said it has sealed off many Taliban supply
and escape routes. The military has been trying to secure the support
of local tribal armies in the fight.
bademiyansubhanallah
Pakistan claims 60 militants killed in operation
(Rated 0times)By RASOOL DAWAR and ZARAR KHAN
Last updated: Sunday, October 18, 2009 5:45 AM EDT
Pakistan Army troops prepare to leave for patrolling during a curfew
in Bannu, a town on the edge of Pakistan's lawless tribal belt
Waziristan, Saturday, Oct. 17, 2009. More than 30,000 Pakistani
soldiers launched a much-awaited ground offensive in an al-Qaida and
Taliban stronghold of South Waziristan along the Afghan border,
officials told The Associated Press - the nuclear-armed U.S. ally's
toughest test yet against militants aiming to topple the state. (AP
Photo/Ijaz Muhammad)
Pakistan Army troops prepare to leave for patrolling during a curfew
in Bannu, a town on the edge of Pakistan's lawless tribal belt
Waziristan, Saturday, Oct. 17, 2009. More than 30,000 Pakistani
soldiers launched a much-awaited ground offensive in an al-Qaida and
Taliban stronghold of South Waziristan along the Afghan border,
officials told The Associated Press - the nuclear-armed U.S. ally's
toughest test yet against militants aiming to topple the state. (AP
Photo/Ijaz Muhammad)
Map locates South Waziristan, Pakistan, where Pakistani troops are
launching an offensive againstTaliban and al-Qaida militants
Pakistani tribal people, who had left their villages in the Pakistani
tribal area of South Waziristan due to military offensive, arrive at a
registration center to register themselves for relief aid in Dera
Ismail Khan, Saturday, Oct. 17, 2009. Pakistani soldiers attacked
militant bases in the main al-Qaida and Taliban stronghold along the
Afghan border Saturday as the nuclear-armed country launched its most
critical offensive yet against insurgents threatening its stability.
(AP Photo/Irfan Mughal)
Pakistani tribal people, who had left their villages in the Pakistani
tribal area of South Waziristan due to military offensive, gather at a
registration center to register themselves for relief aid in Dera
Ismail Khan, Saturday, Oct. 17, 2009. Pakistani soldiers attacked
militant bases in the main al-Qaida and Taliban stronghold along the
Afghan border Saturday as the nuclear-armed country launched its most
critical offensive yet against insurgents threatening its stability.
(AP Photo/Irfan Mughal)
A Pakistan army truck transporting heavy artillery passes through the
main bazaar of Tank, a town on the edge of Pakistan troubled tribal
region South Waziristan, Saturday, Oct. 17, 2009. More than 30,000
Pakistani soldiers launched a ground offensive against al-Qaida and
the Taliban's main stronghold along the Afghan border Saturday,
officials said, in the country's toughest test yet against a
strengthening insurgency. (AP Photo/Ihsan Ahmed)
The Pakistani army says 60 militants have been killed in the first 24
hours of a major operation against the Taliban close to the Afghan
border.
An army statement said Sunday that six soldiers had been killed over
the same time period.
It was not possible to independently verify those figures because the
army prevents reporters from getting close to the battlefield.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further
information. AP's earlier story is below.
MIR ALI, Pakistan (AP) _ Militants clashed with Pakistani troops
advancing into their main sanctuary near the Afghan border Sunday amid
signs the army faces a far tougher fight than in other assaults
against al-Qaida and the Taliban in the northwest.
The operation in South Waziristan follows repeated requests from the
U.S. to take on the jihadists behind soaring terrorist attacks in the
nuclear-armed nation and al-Qaida and other extremists believed to be
plotting strikes in the West.
The push involves mostly poorly equipped soldiers trained to fight
conventional wars, not counterinsurgency operations, who have failed
in three other campaigns in the mountainous region since 2004. The
region is almost wholly under Taliban control.
Reporters are blocked from visiting the region, but accounts Sunday
suggested that the 30,000 troops were in for a bloodier time than in
the Swat Valley, another northwestern region that the army
successfully wrestled away from insurgents earlier this year.
"Militants are offering very tough resistance to any movement of
troops," Ehsan Mahsud, a resident of Makeen, a town in the region,
told The Associated Press in the town of Mir Ali, close to the battle
zone. He and a friend arrived there early Sunday after traveling
through the night.
Fighting early Sunday in the Sarwaki area left one solider and seven
As many as 150,000 civilians _ possibly more _ have left in recent
months after the army made clear it was planning an assault, but as
many as 350,000 could still be in the region. The United Nations has
been stockpiling relief supplies in a town near the region, but
authorities are not expecting a major refugee crisis like the one that
occurred during the offensive this year in the Swat Valley.
Over the last three months, the Pakistani air force has been bombing
targets, while the army has said it has sealed off many Taliban supply
and escape routes. The military has been trying to secure the support
of local tribal armies in the fight.
Rasool Dawar reported from Mir Ali, while Zarar Khan reported from
Islamabad.
bademiyansubhanallah
Pakistan pushes ahead with anti-Taliban assault (Second Lead)
By DPA October 18th, 2009 ISLAMABAD - Pakistani security forces scored
their first gains in a crucial offensive against Taliban near the
Afghan border, by taking two militant towns amid casualties on both
sides, officials said Sunday.
Troops began a three-pronged advance on the Taliban redoubt in South
Waziristan before daybreak Saturday, shortly after the nation’s
political and military leadership decided the much-awaited assault was
“imperative” to establish the state’s writ.
The ground phase of the operation, codenamed Path to Deliverance,
follows a wave of terrorist attacks across Pakistan over the last two
weeks, which killed more than 160 people.
Jet aircraft and artillery bombed militant positions for weeks to
soften up the Taliban defences, but soldiers were still encountering
stiff resistance.
After fierce fighting on the first day, the military overran the
Spinkai Raghzai and Shakai areas, an intelligence official in the
region said on condition of anonymity.
At least 25 insurgents and five soldiers were killed in the overnight
clashes and aerial bombing runs, according to the official. Several
Taliban hideouts were also destroyed.
“Around a dozen militants and one soldier died as fighting erupted in
the Sarwaki area on Sunday,” the official said, adding that heavy
combat was continuing.
Independent verification of the casualty figures is difficult as all
telecommunication traffic from the region has been blocked and many
journalists have left the war zone.
Government forces sealed off roads and imposed curfew in selected
towns for safe movement of military convoys.
More than 28,000 soldiers backed by jets, helicopter gunships and
artillery are taking on up to 10,000 Taliban militants, including an
estimated 1,500 hardcore Al Qaeda fighters of Arab and Central Asian
origin.
Guerrilla tactics and the rugged terrain will test Pakistan’s
capability to fight an unconventional war in extreme winter weather.
A security official said militants had planted mines and homemade
bombs along roads and laid nails on tracks to impede the military’s
advance. Explosives were also said to be rigged to bridges.
Military strategists believe the operation could span up to eight
weeks.
The UN said nearly 80,000 people had fled the conflict zone since May,
while Pakistani officials fear the number of refugees might exceed
120,000.
The offensive is not the first time the Pakistani army is taking on
the Taliban in South Waziristan, but earlier assaults largely failed
to achieve their goals, with authorities grappling to reach peace
deals to end the harsh fighting.
The US has been pressing Pakistan to dismantle the Taliban network in
Waziristan, a known Al Qaeda sanctuary that is used to plan and launch
deadly strikes on the Western forces in Afghanistan.
bademiyansubhanallah
Posted: Oct. 18, 2009
Briefs: Taliban-led insurgents gaining in numbers
Compiled from reports by Free Press news services
There are more Taliban bearing arms than U.S. experts figured. Last
week, a classified assessment said at least 25,000 full-time Taliban-
led insurgents were fighting in Afghanistan.
PLACE AN AD ON FREEP.COM
One U.S. official, who asked to be anonymous because the assessment
is classified, said the estimate represented an increase of at least
5,000 fighters, or 25%, over what an estimate found last year.
U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan Karl Eikenberry assured Afghans last
week that the United States would continue to fight until "extremists
and insurgents" were defeated in the war-torn nation.
The new intelligence estimate suggests such a fight would be
difficult. Not included in the 25,000 tally are the part-time fighters
-- those Afghans who plant bombs or support the insurgents in other
ways in return for money -- and also the criminal gangs who sometimes
make common cause with the Taliban or other Pakistan-based groups.
The Taliban is growing, the assessment said, for several reasons.
Foremost was a growing sense among many Afghans that the insurgents
are gaining ground over U.S.-led NATO troops and Afghan security
forces.
GENERAL'S WISH LIST: The U.S. strategy debate continues
The Obama administration continued its closed-door debate over its new
strategy for Afghanistan amid public divisions between senior
officials and military commanders.
Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the U.S. commander in Afghanistan, is
seeking as many as 45,000 additional U.S. troops, which would bring
the number of U.S. service members to more than 100,000. There are
39,000 forces from other countries, and an effort is under way to
double the size of the Afghan army to 134,000 by 2011.
Administration critics of McChrystal's assessment -- led by Vice
President Joe Biden -- are promoting a more limited strategy that
would require far fewer U.S. troops.
KA-BOOM!: Pentagon anxious for one really big bomb
The Pentagon is speeding up delivery of a colossal bomb designed to
destroy hidden weapons bunkers buried underground and shielded by
10,000 pounds of reinforced concrete.
The 15-ton behemoth will be the largest nonnuclear bomb in the U.S.
arsenal and will carry 5,300 pounds of explosives. The bomb is about
10 times more powerful than the weapon it is designed to replace.
The Pentagon has awarded a nearly $52-million contract to speed up
placement of the bomb aboard the B2 Stealth bomber, and officials say
the bomb could be fielded as soon as next summer.
Pentagon officials acknowledge that the new bomb is intended to blow
up fortified sites like those used by Iran and North Korea for their
nuclear programs, but they deny there is a specific target in mind.
BODY ARMOR: Report says Army's tests of new design flawed
The Army made critical mistakes in tests of a new body armor design,
according to congressional investigators who recommend an independent
review of the trials before the gear is issued to troops in Iraq and
Afghanistan.
The Government Accountability Office report says the Army strayed from
established testing standards and concludes several of the designs
that passed would have failed had the tests been done properly.
The Army has ordered about 240,000 of the new type of bullet-blocking
plate to be used in ballistic vests but doesn't plan to rush the armor
into combat. The plates will be stored until needed to meet future
demands, according to service officials.
In a lengthy response to the GAO report, Defense Department officials
rejected the call for an outside look. They acknowledged a few
problems occurred during testing. But these were minor miscues, they
said, that don't shake their confidence in the overall results.
Given the military's opposition to an external review by ballistics
experts, Congress should decide whether such a step is necessary, the
GAO said.
bademiyansubhanallah
Worldview: Taliban remains a potent threat
By Trudy Rubin
Posted on Sun, Oct. 18, 2009
Inquirer Opinion Columnist
How can the American public be expected to support a new policy for
Afghanistan when they don't know why we're there?
This is the question that bugs me as the Obama team continues to
deliberate on its Afghan strategy. The president says we're there
because al-Qaeda and its allies are in Afghanistan and Pakistan. But
his national security adviser, Gen. James Jones, has said there are
fewer than 100 al-Qaeda operatives in Afghanistan. Indeed, the
terrorist group is reportedly based across the border in the tribal
areas of Pakistan.
So what are we doing in Afghanistan?
This is the question the White House has yet to answer. The focus on
al-Qaeda simplifies matters, but it fails to inform Americans of the
full dimensions of the problem - and why the Afghan Taliban matters.
Is it any wonder polls show support for our presence there is dropping
fast?
Vice President Biden is gaining traction by arguing that we should
concentrate on Pakistan and minimize our involvement across the
border. Many pundits say it won't matter if the Afghan Taliban retakes
the country, because it has broken with al-Qaeda.
So long as the White House talks only of al-Qaeda, the myth will grow
that the Afghan Taliban doesn't matter. I understand why this myth is
so attractive. If the Afghan Taliban is made up of primitives whose
ambitions don't extend beyond their borders, it is no threat to us. So
why bother to confront it?
But what if the Taliban and al-Qaeda are still wedded at the hip?
"Al-Qaeda is only part of the [jihadi] syndicate which operates in a
loose coalition against us," says the Brookings Institution's Bruce
Riedel, a South Asia expert who compiled Obama's first Afghan policy
review in the spring. "This larger problem is what we should focus on.
"We've had this argument put forward that the Taliban and al-Qaeda are
not the same," Riedel continued. "We're told the Taliban are just
angry Pashtuns, and we should focus on al-Qaeda and leave the Taliban
alone. This is a fairy tale, a grotesque misreading of history."
Riedel says that Afghan Taliban leader Mullah Omar, who played host to
Osama bin Laden in the 1990s and refused to give him up after 9/11, is
still linked closely to the al-Qaeda leader: "While they do have
different agendas, they've held together and nothing in the record
suggests the Taliban is about to divorce." Riedel says he believes
that if U.S. forces pull back, al-Qaeda and other foreign jihadis
"would move to Afghanistan" as the Taliban took more territory.
Jon Landay and John Walcott, of the McClatchy Newspapers team that
famously wrote of CIA concerns about overhyped intelligence on WMD
before the Iraq war, now see the opposite problem. They write (with
Nancy Youssef) that some U.S. intelligence analysts feel White House
officials are minimizing the Taliban threat.
"Recent U.S. intelligence assessments," their article says, "have
found that the Taliban and other Pakistan-based [jihadi] groups . . .
have much closer ties to al-Qaeda now than they did before Sept. 11,
2001." These ties "would allow the terrorist network to reestablish
bases in Afghanistan" and permit the expansion of radical Islam to
Central Asia, should the Taliban retake Afghanistan.
And the noted Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid, one of the world's
top experts on the Taliban, told me a U.S. pullback in Afghanistan
would lead to a "huge expansion" of Pakistani Taliban activity in his
own country, which would threaten "uncontrolled chaos."
He said, "The blowback would be serious, and safe havens [for al-
Qaeda] would be stepped up with the danger of a takeover of Pakistan."
This raises the nightmare scenario that jihadis might try to provoke a
war between nuclear-armed India and nuclear-armed Pakistan.
The reality of the Taliban threat doesn't tell us what should be done
to fight it. It might be possible to split or woo away elements of the
Afghan Taliban at some point. But as Riedel points out, "While the
Taliban has the momentum, how are you going to get people who are
willing to talk?"
Whatever decision he makes on strategy, Obama must come to terms with
the threat the Afghan Taliban poses. And he must explain that threat
to the American public.
That's why the current effort to downplay the Taliban and play up al-
Qaeda is so risky. You can't confront one without a strategy to deal
with the other. And the president can't persuade the public to back
him if people don't understand the danger we face.
E-mail Trudy Rubin at tru...@phillynews.com.
bademiyansubhanallah
Al-Qaida, Taliban terrorists killed by Mumbai police?
STAFF WRITER 14:41 HRS IST
New Delhi, Oct 18 (PTI) The Mumbai police has shot dead two 'al-Qaida'
and one 'Taliban' terrorists in police encounters in 2004, if one goes
by an RTI reply.
While official agencies have so far denied presence of Taliban or al-
Qaida in India, the Mumbai police Crime Branch has given this
information in a reply to an RTI application on encounters carried out
since 1980.
The reply has stated that the Crime Branch killed one Adnan alias
Mohammed Khaleel alias Abu Salem and an unidentified militant
belonging to 'al-Qaida' in an encounter on June 16, 2004 at Andheri.
It also said in the same year, on July 7, the property cell of Crime
branch shot dead one Shakil Ahmed Ali Maulana of 'Taliban' in an
encounter near Worli suburb.
bademiyansubhanallah
Diplomatic wrangling delays Afghan vote decision
Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:15am EDT
By Golnar Motevalli
KABUL, Oct 18 (Reuters) - Global pressure mounted on President Hamid
Karzai on Sunday to accept a possible runoff in Afghanistan's disputed
election as extended diplomacy delayed the announcement of official
results from the August poll.
The row stemming from the election, marred by allegations of mass
fraud, is a setback for the United States as President Barack Obama
considers whether to send more troops to Afghanistan to fight a
resurgent Taliban.
Diplomats and observers said Karzai's supporters resisted accepting
the findings of an inquiry by the U.N.-backed Electoral Complaints
Commission (ECC) into poll fraud -- a key factor behind delays in the
announcing the outcome.
"They are putting up resistance," said one official familiar with the
discussions. "Legally, it is difficult to see on what grounds they can
reject any of the findings."
Under Afghan law, Afghanistan's Independent Election Commission has to
accept ECC probe findings, adjust the election tally and announce the
final result.
As talks proceeded, observers said pressure was mounting on Karzai to
agree to face his main challenger, former Foreign Minister Abdullah
Abdullah, in a second round, or form a power-sharing government.
In first public remarks suggesting that the talks were making at least
limited progress, visiting French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner
said the two were ready to "work together".
"They talked, both of them, about the necessity of working together,"
he told reporters in Kabul after speaking, separately, with Karzai and
Abdullah.
"Honestly, this is the minimum they could do."
The Afghan leader has made clear he would prefer not to fight a second
round and has spoken out against the investigation, making veiled
accusations of foreign meddling.
Global leaders have spoken to Karzai over the past two days, including
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
A host of high profile visitors have been in Kabul over the weekend,
including Kouchner and U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee
Chairman John Kerry.
Kerry said Washington should not proceed with a new Afghan strategy
without a clear partner in Kabul. [ID:nN17307546]
STABILISE
If enough votes are thrown out from Karzai's tally he will face
Abdullah in a second round within two weeks of the result -- already a
tough task due to the rapid onset of winter in the mountainous nation
as well as security concerns.
Preliminary figures gave Karzai 54.6 percent of the vote and Abdullah
28 percent.
While accusing Karzai's camp of fraud and calling for a second round,
Abdullah has hinted he might be open to discussions after the first
round result is announced.
The election is a vital element in Western plans to stabilise
Afghanistan and deny sanctuary there to militants believed to have
used it as a base for actions across the globe, including the Sept.
11, 2001, attacks on the United States.
More than 100,000 foreign troops are in Afghanistan fighting Taliban
insurgents, but growing casualties and doubts about the Karzai
government are undermining support for the effort in the United
States, Britain and other countries involved.
bademiyansubhanallah
Freed US reporter says he underestimated Taliban
(AFP) – 4 hours ago
WASHINGTON — A New York Times reporter kidnapped by the Taliban in
2008 and held for seven months in Pakistan said late Saturday he had
underestimated Taliban's extremism and the strength of its supporters
in Pakistan.
"Over those months, I came to a simple realization," the reporter,
David Rohde, wrote about his ordeal. "After seven years of reporting
in the region, I did not fully understand how extreme many of the
Taliban had become."
He said that before the kidnapping, he viewed the organization as a
form of "Al-Qaeda lite," a religiously motivated movement primarily
focused on controlling Afghanistan.
But after spending time in captivity, he said he had realized that the
goal of the hard-line Taliban was far more ambitious.
"They wanted to create a fundamentalist Islamic emirate with Al-Qaeda
that spanned the Muslim world," the writer noted.
He said he had known before about the ties between Pakistan?s
intelligence services and the Taliban and knew Pakistan had turned a
blind eye to many of their activities.
"But I was astonished by what I encountered firsthand: a Taliban mini-
state that flourished openly and with impunity," Rohde pointed out.
He said all along the main roads in North and South Waziristan,
Pakistani government outposts had been abandoned and replaced by
Taliban checkpoints where young militants detained anyone lacking a
Kalashnikov rifle and the right Taliban password.
"We heard explosions echo across North Waziristan as my guards and
other Taliban fighters learned how to make roadside bombs that killed
American and NATO troops," the reporter wrote. "And I found the tribal
areas -- widely perceived as impoverished and isolated -- to have
superior roads, electricity and infrastructure compared with what
exists in much of Afghanistan."
bademiyansubhanallah
UN Prepares for Refugee Rush as Pakistan’s Army Plots Offensive
By Khalid Qayum
Oct. 16 (Bloomberg) -- The United Nations refugee agency is bracing
for a flood of Pakistani civilians once the army assaults a Taliban
stronghold, stretching programs that are helping more than 1 million
people displaced by earlier fighting.
“In an escalation of hostilities, there would be an outflow” of people
from the tribal region of South Waziristan, Ariane Rummery, a
spokeswoman for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees,
said in a phone interview from Islamabad. As many as 90,000 people
have fled the mountainous area along the border with Afghanistan in
the past few weeks and taken refuge in the nearby towns of Dera Ismail
Khan and Tank, she said.
Six gun and suicide bomb attacks by Islamic guerrillas in a week have
killed more than 130 people, with the Pakistan army’s headquarters,
police stations and training centers among the targets. The government
says the bombings are plotted in South Waziristan and fighter jets
have been striking militant hideouts there. The military will decide
on the timing of a ground assault, Interior Minister Rehman Malik has
said.
While several Taliban networks use Waziristan as a base to attack U.S.-
led forces in neighboring Afghanistan, the group targeted by the army
has focused its violence in Pakistan. It was led by Baitullah Mehsud
until his death in a U.S. missile strike in August. About 28,000
troops have been deployed in the region, the army says.
A military operation starting in April against Taliban in the
northwestern Swat valley and tribal areas of Bajaur and Mohmand forced
2.6 million people from their homes, 1 million of whom are yet to
return, Rummery said. About 2,000 insurgents died in the 10-week
offensive in Swat, according to the military.
Winter Looming
About 15 percent of those refugees stayed in temporary camps organized
by the Pakistan government, the UN and other aid agencies while the
rest lived with relatives and friends. Donor nations were slow to
deliver on aid promises, leaving some at risk of disease, the UN has
said. “The refugees from South Waziristan may not be as many as from
Swat,” Rummery said. Those that do will need better facilities with
the start of winter in the region this month.
South Waziristan is a mountainous land of 6,620 square kilometers
(2,550 square miles) with a population of about 500,000. Former
military ruler Pervez Musharraf deployed troops in the tribal areas in
2003 after the U.S. said Taliban militants based in the region were
launching attacks at coalition forces based in Afghanistan.
The region is dominated by ethnic Pashtuns, who have enjoyed autonomy
under an agreement with the government signed in 1948, a year after
the country’s independence from Britain.
To contact the reporters on this story: Khalid Qayum in Islamabad at
kqa...@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: October 16, 2009 01:06 EDT
bademiyansubhanallah
Page last updated at 10:10 GMT, Sunday, 18 October 2009 11:10 UK
Taliban resist Pakistan onslaught
The army has mobilised artillery and troops in the area
Taliban militants are putting up fierce resistance to the Pakistan
army as it attempts to oust them from strongholds in the remote South
Waziristan region.
The army say about 60 militants and five soldiers have now been
killed.
It is the first official death toll since troops, backed by heavy
artillery and air support, began attacking Taliban hideouts on
Saturday.
Up to 20,000 people have fled the area in the past few days, and aid
agencies say many more could be displaced.
The military, mobilising from three directions, is controlling entry
and exit points in the region.
Reports from the area are sketchy as it is difficult and dangerous for
foreign or Pakistani journalists to operate inside South Waziristan.
Soldiers captured a Taliban stronghold at Spinkai Raghzai on Saturday
after the militants withdrew to nearby mountains.
"It is a flat area, so whenever they tried to put up resistance, the
helicopter gunships fired at them so they decided to flee to the
mountains," a senior government official told Reuters news agency.
Troops established a checkpoint en route to Kotkai, the home town of
Pakistani Taliban chief Hakimullah Mehsud, AFP reported.
There had been several co-ordinated Taliban attacks in the run-up to
the offensive, killing more than 150 people in cities across
Pakistan.
FORCES IN WAZIRISTAN
Pakistan army: Two divisions totalling 28,000 soldiers
Frontier Corp: Paramilitary forces from tribal areas likely to support
army
Taliban militants: Estimated between 10,000 and 20,000
Uzbek fighters supporting Taliban: Estimates widely vary between
500-5,000
Challenges in Waziristan
Pakistanis reflect on offensive
Security is tight in towns and cities throughout Pakistan in case the
Taliban carry out revenge attacks.
Nearly all communications in the region were down after the Taliban
destroyed a telecommunications tower at Tiarza, local officials said.
Aerial bombardments in the Makeen area, a stronghold of the Mehsud
tribe and a key army target, were also reported by local officials and
witnesses.
The ground operation comes after weeks of air and artillery strikes
against militant targets in the region, which lies close to the Afghan
border.
There is a huge army presence on the road between Tank and Dera Ismail
Khan, says the BBC's Islamabad correspondent Shoaib Hasan, near South
Waziristan.
The army has been massing troops near the militants' stronghold for
months - ever since the governor of Pakistan's North West Frontier
Province announced a ground offensive in South Waziristan on 15 June.
Pakistan's government has been under considerable pressure from the US
to tackle militancy there.
North and South Waziristan form a lethal militant belt from where
insurgents have launched attacks across north-west Pakistan as well as
into parts of eastern Afghanistan
South Waziristan is considered to be the first significant sanctuary
for Islamic militants outside Afghanistan since 9/11.
bademiyansubhanallah
Page last updated at 11:10 GMT, Saturday, 17 October 2009 12:10 UK
Q&A: Pakistan's Waziristan challenge
Pakistan's army has begun a ground offensive in the volatile tribal
region of South Waziristan. The army has been massing troops near the
militants' stronghold for months. But what lies in wait for the army
as it finally takes on the Taliban on their home terrain?
Where is Waziristan and what is it like?
Waziristan is a mountainous region in north-west Pakistan, bordering
Afghanistan.
It is part of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata), a semi-
autonomous region where the central government exercises limited
control through a political agent.
For administrative purposes it is divided into two "agencies" - North
Waziristan and South Waziristan.
Winters are harsh, making large tracts of the already inhospitable
terrain almost inaccessible.
The tribal society found in North and South Waziristan is extremely
socially conservative with a fierce reputation as "warriors".
North Waziristan is dominated by the Wazir tribe. This tribe also
extends into South Waziristan and makes up one-third of its
population. The remaining two-thirds of South Waziristan's population
are Mehsuds.
Why is Waziristan a target?
South Waziristan and the surrounding region have been described by US
officials as "the most dangerous place on earth".
Many analysts believe the area could harbour some of the world's most
wanted men - including al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden.
It was the home of former Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud, who was
killed in a suspected US drone strike in August 2009. It is also home
to his successor, the current Pakistani Taliban leader, Hakimullah
Mehsud.
North and South Waziristan form a lethal militant belt from where
insurgents have launched attacks across north-west Pakistan as well as
into parts of eastern Afghanistan.
South Waziristan is considered to be the first significant sanctuary
for Islamic militants outside Afghanistan since 9/11. It also has
numerous training camps for suicide bombers.
Pakistan's government is under considerable pressure from the US to
tackle militancy there.
Analysts also say dislodging al-Qaeda-linked Uzbek and Arab militants
in the area is an important goal.
What has happened so far?
The Pakistani army has maintained a brigade headquarters in the Wana
region of South Waziristan since 2004.
But since May 2009 troops have been massing in large numbers in the
semi-tribal areas on the periphery of Waziristan.
In the past few months the Pakistani army, working with local
paramilitary forces such as the Frontier Corps, has launched some
artillery and air strikes against Taliban militants.
But until now the army has said it wanted to surround the militants
and use air power and artillery to ''soften them up".
This is in contrast to its recent campaign in the Swat valley where it
suddenly began a three-month ground offensive in the summer of 2009
and largely succeeded in driving out Taliban fighters entrenched
there.
People have been fleeing the Waziristan area for some months in
anticipation of fighting.
The US has also been involved in attacks on militants in Waziristan,
where suspected drone strikes have killed a number of senior Taliban
militants in the region in recent months.
It was one such missile attack which killed Taliban chief Baitullah
Mehsud at a family compound in South Waziristan.
What are the challenges of operating in South Waziristan?
The harsh mountainous terrain is often cited as a major challenge for
the army. The gullies, ravines and high mountain trails make arduous
going and provide many hiding places for militants.
Knowledge of the terrain is vital - and in this respect the militants
have the advantage.
However, the BBC's M Ilyas Khan in Islamabad says that the terrain in
the Swat valley, where the army took the battle to the Taliban, was
more difficult than that found in South Waziristan because it is more
densely forested.
The Malakand division which includes the Swat valley is also a larger
area than that in which any Waziristan offensive is likely to take
place.
Weather will play a role. Snow is likely to blanket parts of the
region from early December - particularly the Makeen area which is a
Mehsud stronghold.
This is likely to pose a problem for militants and troops alike.
However, the cold has not prevented the army from launching operations
in South Waziristan in the past.
What might be a deciding factor is the militarised psyche of society
in Waziristan. The Wazir and Mehsud tribes are often described by
analysts as "born soldiers" willing to fight to the death.
PAKISTAN ARMY HAS A FULL RANGE OF MODERN WEAPONRY
1. Cobra helicopter gunship
2. Artillery guns
3. Light pick-up troop transporter
4. Infantry armed with assault rifle
5. Tanks are also available but will not be used extensively
6. F-16 fighter jet
What is the manpower of the army versus the Taliban?
TALIBAN ARE LIGHTLY ARMED BUT HIGHLY MOBILE AND ADAPTABLE
1. Main weapon: AK-47 assault rifle
2. Improvised explosive devices can be deadly
3. Toyota Hi Lux pick-up light transport. Here Taliban guerrillas are
armed with RPGs
There are two divisions - or about 30,000 soldiers - of Pakistan's
army already deployed on the edge of Waziristan. In addition the
Frontier Corps - the paramilitary force made up of recruits from
tribal areas - is likely to support army operations.
The number of militants is far harder to estimate. An army spokesman
recently estimated their strength at between 10,000 and 20,000
fighters.
In South Waziristan Hakimullah Mehsud heads what is thought to be the
largest militant force with an estimated strength of more than 15,000
armed men - although the "hard core" of his fighters is much smaller.
The western stretch bordering Afghanistan is the territory of the
Ahmedzai Wazir tribe. The current operation is likely to be confined
to the Mehsud area.
Analysts say estimates for the number of Uzbek fighters in South
Wazirstan varies from 500-5,000.
What tactics are being deployed?
The army has said it has sent its troops and artillery into the region
from the north, east and west.
The army appears to be heading towards the Mehsud stronghold of
Makeen.
If the military goes in with full force, the militants are likely to
disperse rather than attempt to hold territory, analysts say.
But so far they have been reported to be putting up resistance.
Militants have also destroyed a vital telecommunications tower.
Analysts say the militants will almost certainly engage in guerrilla
warfare. With their knowledge of the terrain they are likely to launch
ambushes as has been the case in previous assaults.
Reports say the militants are already using tunnel networks and booby
traps.
But a lot depends on the tactics the army deploys from now on.
Previously, the military has not had a clear strategy when venturing
into Waziristan.
It remains to be seen if that is the case this time round.
The army would have to hold the roads and the main towns. Currently
the Mehsud-dominated centres of Ladha, Makeen and Sararogha are
virtual no-go areas.
A primary military target would be to take control of the heights and
put up outposts.
And they are likely to continue their policy of going after mid- and
high-ranking Taliban commanders.
What has happened in past encounters?
Waziristan has a long tradition of resisting outside interference.
From the 1860s onwards, the colonial British forces made gruelling
expeditions into the area following audacious attacks from Waziristan
tribesmen in British-ruled territory.
More than a century later, it is no easier for the Pakistani army.
In 2004 the Pakistani army suffered heavily at the hands of Wazir-
affiliated militants.
There is a possibility that a military offensive against the Mehsud
group in South Waziristan could draw into the conflict militant groups
based in the Wazir tribal areas of South and North Waziristan.
These groups are currently part of an al-Qaeda-affiliated network who
have so far concentrated on fighting inside Afghanistan. They have
"peace agreements" with the Pakistani army.
bademiyansubhanallah
Page last updated at 18:36 GMT, Saturday, 17 October 2009 19:36 UK
Pakistanis reflect on army offensive
Pakistan's army has launched an air and ground offensive against
Taliban militants in the South Waziristan area.
Here Pakistanis reflect on the offensive and the mood in the country
following a string of attacks by militants.
ATIF HAMEED, 31, IT ENGINEER, PESHAWAR
Atif says people in Peshawar are stressed and scared
We welcome the action by the army because we want peace and
stability.
It must successful at any cost. And by the grace of God, it will be.
If the army is not 100% successful then there will be no future for
the country.
Of course the offensive will affect the ordinary people in Waziristan.
The earlier operation in Swat led to a huge displacement of people.
But this is a price that has to be paid to defeat the militants.
People are stressed and scared in Peshawar because of the attacks. The
bomb attack that struck at the end of September was right outside my
office. That was a horrific incident that left body-parts and debris
strewn over a wide area.
Some people won't let their children out. But people have to get on
with their lives, they have to go to work or college even though they
fear what might happen.
I've just heard gunshots outside my house. This is routine now.
Despite all of this, people are hopeful. We believe in the power and
brilliance of our military. We trust the military more than the
government.
SAAD, 26, KARACHI, PAKISTAN
The people behind the suicide attacks can't be allowed to get away
with them. They are in Pakistani territory and are disturbing our
everyday life so the government has every right to intervene. It
should have done so a long time ago.
The army offensive is necessary but the most important issue for
Pakistan is economic development
Pakistanis do not know where this country is heading. They do not have
high hopes for the future.
Not many people support the present government or its leader. Asif Ali
Zardari's approval ratings are low - some surveys indicate it is less
than 19%.
Despite this, he is getting support from the US government. This is
not something that most Pakistanis are happy about.
You have to ask why people are drawn to the radical element.
Many parts of the country have power cuts for more than 10 hours a
day. The economic situation is very poor. Education is only available
for those who can afford it. There is no proper healthcare in rural
areas.
The army offensive in Waziristan is necessary, but the most important
issue for Pakistan is economic development.
It is vital that the economic aid reaches the people rather than being
squandered. The most important things that will safeguard our future
are economic improvement, better education and a reformed justice
system.
BASMA KHAN, 22, SOFTWARE ENGINEER, LAHORE
Basma says the militants are tarnishing Pakistan's image
I support the army action - something must be done to stop the
militants.
The lack of security is affecting all of us in Lahore. When people
leave their homes in the morning they fear for their lives.
There are so many security forces here in Lahore that I actually feel
more unsafe now. It makes me think there will be another attack soon.
Everyday I have my ID checked or my car stopped. I see police and
armed security forces everywhere.
It is sad that the image of Pakistan has become so tarnished by the
terrorists. They are distorting the image of our country and of
Islam.
The militants recruit young and innocent people who do not have
exposure to the cities or the outside world. But most people in this
country just want peace. We are sick and tired of the attacks.
I hope that actions will speak louder than words, and people will see
that the army is doing all it can do to crush these militants. I hope
the world will see that it is the Pakistani people who are the most
threatened by these terrorists.
We have to be hopeful that things will get better in Pakistan. What
else can we do? But nobody knows what will happen in the future.
ASIF, 52, DOCTOR, ISLAMABAD
I believe the army is doing its best to destroy the militants in the
country. They have already done a commendable job in Swat and continue
to do so despite sustaining very heavy casualties.
The real problem began across the border in Afghanistan
Most Pakistanis support the operation. But it is difficult to say how
successful they will be as history shows it is difficult to defeat
such forces in this area.
So-called experts have blamed Pakistan for the current turmoil in the
region.
I would say the real problem began across the border in Afghanistan.
The Russian invasion of the country led to Americans flooding the area
with money and weapons and inviting the Islamic Mujahideen to fight
there.
The current problem in Pakistan is a result of the war in Afghanistan
being pushed over the border into our country.
Most people here are cool-headed and friendly. They are focused on
their everyday lives - they do not think about joining the militants.
I hope the current offensive will uproot the militants and lead to
fewer attacks on our cities.
But the real way to resolve the problem is to negotiate with the local
tribal elders and religious leaders. These people have controlled the
area successfully with minimal outside intervention for many years.
This is also the way to resolve the problem in Afghanistan.
chhotemianinshallah
Gates seeks aid on Afghanistan amid US indecision
By LARA JAKES (AP) – 2 hours ago
WASHINGTON — The Pentagon's chief is undertaking the tricky task of
convincing allies to remain committed to the war in Afghanistan even
as the Obama administration continues to debate whether to send more
troops to fight.
U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates himself is undecided — at least
publicly — on whether to order more forces to fight the Taliban in
Afghanistan as his top commander there has requested or to focus more
narrowly on al-Qaida terrorists believed to be hiding in Pakistan.
Gates leaves Sunday on a weeklong mission to Japan, Korea and Slovakia
— in part to ask NATO partners and Asian allies for continued
contributions to a war now in its ninth year.
Perhaps mindful of asking others for help amid the U.S. indecision,
Gates isn't only seeking military aid.
"A lot of the very valuable contributions in Afghanistan are on the
development and the training, with the police and other aspects of
civil life," a senior defense official at the Pentagon said last week
on condition of anonymity to discuss Gates' travels more candidly.
Allies, however, are showing signs of pulling back. Japan is
withdrawing two naval ships out of the Indian Ocean that have been
used as refueling stops for allies en route to Afghanistan. And Great
Britain said this week it will deploy a small but symbolic force of
500 additional troops — but only if NATO and the Afghanistan
government do more to fight the Taliban.
The U.S. defense official said it's likely that Gates will discuss the
January pullout of the refueling mission with Japanese ministers when
he is in Tokyo on Tuesday. But he doesn't expect to change the mind of
Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama, who took office last month and wants
Japan to take other steps to restore peace in Afghanistan.
The visit will mark the first Obama administration Cabinet official to
travel to Japan since Hatoyama's election.
"We understand that they are looking for other ways to make a
contribution," said the defense official, who nonetheless described
the refueling operation as "of great value to the coalition."
Gates will not be asking the Japanese for any specific aid, the
defense official said. Japan is already helping to train Afghan police
forces.
It's not clear whether Gates will ask South Korea for more help beyond
medical and job-training assistance that nation is already supplying
in Afghanistan. "We would hope that Korea would continue to see it in
their interest to provide aid of whatever form is appropriate," the
defense official said.
Gates will be in Seoul on Wednesday. From there, he goes to
Bratislava, Slovakia, on Thursday to meet NATO defense ministers for
what Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said would be a discussion
focusing mostly on Afghanistan.
President Barack Obama is not expected to decide on a U.S. strategy
for Afghanistan or Pakistan until after Gates returns. Obama
administration officials have said the president's decision will come
before he leaves on his own Asia trip in mid-November.
Until then, Gates "is really in a difficult position," said Rick
"Ozzie" Nelson, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and
International Studies and retired Navy commander who was stationed in
at the military air field in Bagram, Afghanistan until April.
"His line is going to have to be, 'Bear with us until we figure out
what we're going to do,'" Nelson said Friday, forecasting Gates'
upcoming meetings overseas. "Really, what he's asking them is not to
leave and to be patient. He can't ask them for more or to go above and
beyond what they're already done."
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
chhotemianinshallah
chhotemianinshallah
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/world/asia/18hostage.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
7 Months, 10 Days in Captivity
Tomas Munita for The New York Times
David Rohde interviewed villagers in southern Afghanistan, above, in
the late summer of 2007, about a year before he was kidnapped while
working on a book about the region.
By DAVID ROHDE
Published: October 17, 2009
THE car’s engine roared as the gunman punched the accelerator and we
crossed into the open Afghan desert. I was seated in the back between
two Afghan colleagues who were accompanying me on a reporting trip
when armed men surrounded our car and took us hostage.
This is the first installment in a five-part series offering a first-
person account by David Rohde of his seven months as a captive of the
Taliban in Pakistan. Mr. Rohde, a New York Times reporter, was
kidnapped with two Afghan colleagues on Nov. 10, 2008, as they
traveled to an interview with a Taliban commander outside of Kabul,
Afghanistan.
The articles are based on Mr. Rohde’s recollections and, where
possible, records kept by his family and colleagues. For safety
reasons, certain names and details have been withheld.
Another gunman in the passenger seat turned and stared at us as he
gripped his Kalashnikov rifle. No one spoke. I glanced at the bleak
landscape outside — reddish soil and black boulders as far as the eye
could see — and feared we would be dead within minutes.
It was last Nov. 10, and I had been headed to a meeting with a Taliban
commander along with an Afghan journalist, Tahir Luddin, and our
driver, Asad Mangal. The commander had invited us to interview him
outside Kabul for reporting I was pursuing about Afghanistan and
Pakistan.
The longer I looked at the gunman in the passenger seat, the more
nervous I became. His face showed little emotion. His eyes were dark,
flat and lifeless.
I thought of my wife and family and was overcome with shame. An
interview that seemed crucial hours earlier now seemed absurd and
reckless. I had risked the lives of Tahir and Asad — as well as my own
life. We reached a dry riverbed and the car stopped. “They’re going to
kill us,” Tahir whispered. “They’re going to kill us.”
Tahir and Asad were ordered out of the car. Gunmen from a second
vehicle began beating them with their rifle butts and led them away. I
was told to get out of the car and take a few steps up a sand-covered
hillside.
While one guard pointed his Kalashnikov at me, the other took my
glasses, notebook, pen and camera. I was blindfolded, my hands tied
behind my back. My heart raced. Sweat poured from my skin.
“Habarnigar,” I said, using a Dari word for journalist. “Salaam,” I
said, using an Arabic expression for peace.
I waited for the sound of gunfire. I knew I might die but remained
strangely calm.
Moments later, I felt a hand push me back toward the car, and I was
forced to lie down on the back seat. Two gunmen got in and slammed the
doors shut. The car lurched forward. Tahir and Asad were gone and, I
thought, probably dead.
The car came to a halt after what seemed like a two-hour drive. Guards
took off my blindfold and guided me through the front door of a crude
mud-brick home perched in the center of a ravine.
I was put in some type of washroom the size of a closet. After a few
minutes, the guards opened the door and pushed Tahir and Asad inside.
We stared at one another in relief. About 20 minutes later, a guard
opened the door and motioned for us to walk into the hallway.
“No shoot,” he said, “no shoot.”
For the first time that day, I thought our lives might be spared. The
guard led us into a living room decorated with maroon carpets and red
pillows. A half-dozen men sat along two walls of the room, Kalashnikov
rifles at their sides. I sat down across from a heavyset man with a
patu — a traditional Afghan scarf — wrapped around his face.
Sunglasses covered his eyes, and he wore a cheap black knit winter
cap. Embroidered across the front of it was the word “Rock” in
English.
“I’m a Taliban commander,” he announced. “My name is Mullah
Atiqullah.”
FOR the next seven months and 10 days, Atiqullah and his men kept the
three of us hostage. We were held in Afghanistan for a week, then
spirited to the tribal areas of Pakistan, where Osama bin Laden is
thought to be hiding.
Atiqullah worked with Sirajuddin Haqqani, the leader of one of the
most hard-line factions of the Taliban. The Haqqanis and their allies
would hold us in territory they control in North and South
Waziristan.
During our time as hostages, I tried to reason with our captors. I
told them we were journalists who had come to hear the Taliban’s side
of the story. I told them that I had recently married and that Tahir
and Asad had nine young children between them. I wept, hoping it would
create sympathy, and begged them to release us. All of my efforts
proved pointless.
Over those months, I came to a simple realization. After seven years
of reporting in the region, I did not fully understand how extreme
many of the Taliban had become. Before the kidnapping, I viewed the
organization as a form of “Al Qaeda lite,” a religiously motivated
movement primarily focused on controlling Afghanistan.
Living side by side with the Haqqanis’ followers, I learned that the
goal of the hard-line Taliban was far more ambitious. Contact with
foreign militants in the tribal areas appeared to have deeply affected
many young Taliban fighters. They wanted to create a fundamentalist
Islamic emirate with Al Qaeda that spanned the Muslim world.
I had written about the ties between Pakistan’s intelligence services
and the Taliban while covering the region for The New York Times. I
knew Pakistan turned a blind eye to many of their activities. But I
was astonished by what I encountered firsthand: a Taliban mini-state
that flourished openly and with impunity.
The Taliban government that had supposedly been eliminated by the 2001
invasion of Afghanistan was alive and thriving.
All along the main roads in North and South Waziristan, Pakistani
government outposts had been abandoned, replaced by Taliban
checkpoints where young militants detained anyone lacking a
Kalashnikov rifle and the right Taliban password. We heard explosions
echo across North Waziristan as my guards and other Taliban fighters
learned how to make roadside bombs that killed American and NATO
troops.
And I found the tribal areas — widely perceived as impoverished and
isolated — to have superior roads, electricity and infrastructure
compared with what exists in much of Afghanistan.
At first, our guards impressed me. They vowed to follow the tenets of
Islam that mandate the good treatment of prisoners. In my case, they
unquestionably did. They gave me bottled water, let me walk in a small
yard each day and never beat me.
But they viewed me — a nonobservant Christian — as religiously unclean
and demanded that I use a separate drinking glass to protect them from
the diseases they believed festered inside nonbelievers.
My captors harbored many delusions about Westerners. But I also saw
how some of the consequences of Washington’s antiterrorism policies
had galvanized the Taliban. Commanders fixated on the deaths of
Afghan, Iraqi and Palestinian civilians in military airstrikes, as
well as the American detention of Muslim prisoners who had been held
for years without being charged. America, Europe and Israel preached
democracy, human rights and impartial justice to the Muslim world,
they said, but failed to follow those principles themselves.
During our captivity, I made numerous mistakes. In an effort to save
our lives in the early days, I exaggerated what the Taliban could
receive for us in ransom. In response, my captors made irrational
demands, at one point asking for $25 million and the release of Afghan
prisoners from the American detention center at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.
When my family and editors declined, my captors complained that I was
“worthless.”
Tahir and Asad were held in even lower esteem. The guards incessantly
berated both of them for working with foreign journalists and
repeatedly threatened to kill them. The dynamic was not new. In an
earlier kidnapping involving an Italian journalist and his Afghan
colleagues, the Taliban had executed the Afghan driver to press the
Italian government to meet their demands.
Despite the danger, Tahir fought like a lion. He harangued our
kidnappers for hours at a time and used the threat of vengeance from
his powerful Afghan tribe to keep the Taliban from harming us.
We became close friends, encouraging each other in our lowest moments.
We fought, occasionally, as well. At all times, an ugly truth hovered
over the three of us. Asad and Tahir would be the first ones to die.
In post-9/11 Afghanistan and Pakistan, all lives are still not created
equal.
As the months dragged on, I grew to detest our captors. I saw the
Haqqanis as a criminal gang masquerading as a pious religious
movement. They described themselves as the true followers of Islam but
displayed an astounding capacity for dishonesty and greed.
Our ultimate betrayal would come from Atiqullah himself, whose nom de
guerre means “gift from God.”
What follows is the story of our captivity. I took no notes while I
was a prisoner. All descriptions stem from my memory and, where
possible, records kept by my family and colleagues. Direct quotations
from our captors are based on Tahir’s translations. Undoubtedly, my
recollections are incomplete and the passage of time may have affected
them. For safety reasons, certain details and names have been
withheld.
Our time as prisoners was bewildering. Two phone calls and one letter
from my wife sustained me. I kept telling myself — and Tahir and Asad
— to be patient and wait. By June, our seventh month in captivity, it
had become clear to us that our captors were not seriously negotiating
our release. Their arrogance and hypocrisy had become unending, their
dishonesty constant. We saw an escape attempt as a last-ditch,
foolhardy act that had little chance of success. Yet we still wanted
to try.
To our eternal surprise, it worked.
ON Oct. 26, 2008, I arrived in Afghanistan on a three-week reporting
trip for a book I was writing about the squandered opportunities to
bring stability to the region. I had been covering Afghanistan and
Pakistan since 2001 and was inspired by the bravery and pride of the
people in those two countries and, it seemed, their popular desire for
moderate, modern societies.
The first part of my visit proved depressing. I spent two weeks in
Helmand Province, in southern Afghanistan, and was struck by the
rising public support for the Taliban. Seven years of halting economic
development, a foreign troop presence and military mistakes that
killed civilians had bred a deep resentment of American and NATO
forces.
For the book to be as rigorous and fair as possible, I decided that I
needed to get the Taliban’s side of the story.
I knew that would mean taking a calculated risk, a decision
journalists sometimes make to report accurately in the field. I was
familiar with the potential consequences. In 1995, I was imprisoned
for 10 days while covering the war in Bosnia. Serbian authorities
arrested me after I discovered mass graves of more than 7,000 Muslim
men who had been executed in Srebrenica.
My detention was excruciating for my family. Promising I would never
put them through such an ordeal again, I was cautious through 13
subsequent years of reporting.
I flew from Helmand to Kabul on Sunday, Nov. 9, to meet with Tahir
Luddin, who worked for The Times of London and was known as a
journalist who could arrange interviews with the Taliban.
After making some inquiries, Tahir told me that a Taliban commander
named Abu Tayyeb would agree to an interview the next day in Logar
Province. We could meet him after a one-hour drive on paved roads in a
village near an American military base.
Tahir had already interviewed Abu Tayyeb with two other foreign
journalists and said he trusted him. He said Abu Tayyeb was aligned
with a moderate Taliban faction based in the Pakistani city of Quetta.
The danger, he said, would be the drive itself. “Nothing is 100
percent,” he told me. “You only die once.”
I felt my stomach churn. But if I did the interview, the most
dangerous reporting for the book would be over. I could return home
with a sense that I had done everything I could to understand the
country.
“Yes,” I told Tahir. “Tell him yes.”
That night, I had dinner with Carlotta Gall, a dear friend and the
Kabul bureau chief for The New York Times, and asked her if the
interview was a crazy idea. Carlotta said she had never felt the need
to interview the Taliban in person and preferred phone conversations.
She recommended that we hire a driver to serve as a lookout and end
the meeting after no more than an hour.
I also met with a French journalist who had interviewed Abu Tayyeb
twice with Tahir. In the fall of 2007, she spent two days filming him
and his men as they trained. In the summer of 2008, she spent an
evening with them and filmed an attack on a police post.
She pointed out that I was more vulnerable as an American, but she
said she thought Abu Tayyeb would not kidnap us. She said she believed
that he was trying to use the media to get across the Taliban’s
message.
I slept poorly the night before the interview. I got out of bed early
and put on a pair of boxer shorts my wife had given me on Valentine’s
Day emblazoned with dozens of “I love you” logos, hoping they would
bring good luck.
I left two notes behind. One gave Carlotta the location of the meeting
and instructed her to call the American Embassy if we did not return
by late afternoon. The other was to my wife, Kristen, in case
something went wrong.
I walked outside and met Tahir and Asad Mangal, a friend he had hired
to work as a driver and lookout. As we drove away, Tahir suggested
that we pray for a safe journey. We did.
Dressed in Afghan clothes and seated in the back, I covered my face
with a scarf to prevent thieves from recognizing me as a foreigner.
Most kidnappings in and around Kabul had been carried out by criminal
gangs, not the Taliban.
From the car, I sent Carlotta a text message with Abu Tayyeb’s phone
number. I told her to call him if she did not hear from me. If
something went wrong along the way, Abu Tayyeb and his men would
rescue us. Under Afghan tradition, guests are treated with
extraordinary honor. If a guest is threatened, it is the host’s duty
to shelter and protect him.
We arrived at the meeting point in a town where farmers and donkeys
meandered down the road. But none of Abu Tayyeb’s men were there.
Tahir called Abu Tayyeb, who instructed us to continue down the road.
Moments later, I felt the car swerve to the right and stop. Two gunmen
ran toward our car shouting commands in Pashto, the local language.
The gunmen opened both front doors and ordered Tahir and Asad to move
to the back seat.
Tahir shouted at the men in Pashto as the car sped down the road. I
recognized the words “journalists” and “Abu Tayyeb” and nothing else.
The man in the front passenger seat shouted something back and waved
his gun menacingly. He was small, with dark hair and a short beard. He
seemed nervous and belligerent.
I hoped there had been some kind of mistake. I hoped the gunmen would
call Abu Tayyeb, who would vouch for us and order our release.
Instead, our car continued down the road, following a yellow station
wagon in front of us.
The gunman in the passenger seat shouted more commands. Tahir told me
they wanted our cellphones and other possessions. “If they find we
have a hidden phone,” Tahir said, “they’ll kill us.”
“Tell them we’re journalists,” I said. “Tell them we’re here to
interview Abu Tayyeb.”
Tahir translated what I said, and the driver — a bearish, bearded
figure — started laughing.
“Who is Abu Tayyeb? I don’t know any Abu Tayyeb,” he said. “I am the
commander here.”
They are thieves or members of another Taliban faction, I thought. I
knew that what we called the Taliban was really a loose alliance of
local commanders who often operated independently of one another.
I looked at the two gunmen in the front seat. If we somehow
overpowered them, I thought, the men in the station wagon would shoot
us. I did not want to get Asad and Tahir killed. My arrest in Bosnia
had ended peacefully after 10 days. I thought the same might occur
here.
One of the gunmen said something and Tahir turned to me. “They want to
know your nationality,” he said. I hesitated and wondered whether I
should say I was Canadian. Being an American was disastrous, but I
thought lying was worse. If they later learned I was American, I would
instantly be declared a spy.
“Tell them the truth,” I told Tahir. “Tell them I’m American.”
Tahir relayed my answer and the burly driver beamed, raising his fist
and shouting a response in Pashto. Tahir translated it for me: “They
say they are going to send a blood message to Obama.”
BY the time I met face to face later that day with Atiqullah, our
kidnapper, I still did not know which Taliban faction had abducted
us.
A large man with short dark hair protruding from the sides of his cap,
he appeared self-assured and in clear command of his men. He also
seemed suspicious of us, which worried me. I knew many Taliban
believed all journalists were spies.
With Tahir translating, we explained that we had been invited to Logar
Province to interview Abu Tayyeb, the Taliban commander. I said I had
worked as The Times’s South Asia correspondent from 2002 to 2005. I
described articles I had written during the war in Bosnia and told him
that Serbian Orthodox Christians had arrested me there after I had
exposed the massacre of Muslims.
Atiqullah remained unmoved. He denied our request to call Abu Tayyeb
or a Taliban spokesman. He controlled our fate now, he announced.
Atiqullah handed me the notebook and pen his gunmen had taken from me
and ordered me to start writing.
American soldiers routinely disgraced Afghan women and men, he said.
They forced women to stand before them without their burqas, the head-
to-toe veils that villagers believe protect a woman’s honor. They
searched homes without permission and forced Afghan men to lie on the
ground, placing boots on the Afghans’ heads and pushing their faces
into the dirt. He clearly viewed the United States as a malevolent
occupier.
He produced one of our cellphones and announced that he wanted to call
The Times’s office in Kabul. I gave him the number, and Atiqullah
briefly spoke with one of the newspaper’s Afghan reporters. He
eventually handed me the phone. Carlotta, the paper’s Kabul bureau
chief, was on the line. I said that we had been taken prisoner by the
Taliban.
“What can we do?” Carlotta asked. “What can we do?”
Atiqullah demanded the phone back before I could answer. Carlotta —
the most fearless reporter I knew — sounded unnerved.
Atiqullah turned off the phone, removed the battery and announced that
we would move that night for security reasons. My heart sank. I had
hoped that we would somehow be allowed to contact Abu Tayyeb and be
freed before nightfall. As we waited in the house, I thought Carlotta
would be calling my family and editors at any minute to inform them
that I had been kidnapped.
I awoke before dawn to the sound of the guards performing a predawn
prayer with Tahir and Asad. We had been taken to a small dirt house
and then spent the day trapped in a claustrophobic room with our three
guards. Measuring roughly 20 feet by 20 feet, its only furnishings
were the carpet on the floor and a dozen blankets.
One of our guards introduced himself as “Qari,” an Arabic expression
for someone who had memorized the Koran. He later said he was one of
the “fedayeen,” an Arabic term the Taliban use for suicide bombers.
Food arrived at mealtimes, and no one was beaten. Yet Tahir grew
increasingly worried. “These guys are really religious,” he whispered
to me at one point. “They’re really religious. They’re praying a
lot.”
Confined to the room for most of the day, I found it increasingly
suffocating. By now, I was sure my family had heard the news.
Several hours after sunset, we were hustled into a small station
wagon.
“We have to move you for security reasons,” said Atiqullah, who was
sitting in the driver’s seat, his face still concealed behind a scarf.
Arab militants and a film crew from Al Jazeera were on their way, he
said.
“They’re going to chop off your heads,” he announced. “I’ve got to get
you out of this area.”
As we drove away, I asked for permission to speak. Atiqullah agreed,
and I told him we were worth more alive than dead. He asked me what I
thought he could get for us. I hesitated, unsure of what to say. I was
desperate to keep us alive.
I knew that in March 2007, the Afghan government exchanged five
Taliban prisoners for the Italian journalist after the Taliban
executed his driver. Later, they killed his translator as well. My
memory of the exchange was vague, but I thought money was included. In
August 2007, the South Korean government had reportedly paid $20
million for the release of 21 Korean missionaries after the Taliban
killed two members of the group.
“Money and prisoners,” I said.
“How much money?” Atiqullah asked.
I hesitated again.
“Millions,” I said, immediately thinking I would regret the
statement.
Atiqullah and one of his commanders looked at each other.
Over the next hour, the conversation continued. Atiqullah promised to
do his best to protect us. I promised him money and prisoners.
As we wound our way through steep mountain passes, Atiqullah asked for
the names and professions of my father and brothers. I told him the
truth. Given the unusual spelling of my last name, I thought he could
easily find my relatives online.
My father was a retired insurance salesman, I said. One of my brothers
worked for an aviation consulting company. A stepbrother worked for a
bank. I thought being forthright was helping convince him that I was a
journalist, not a spy.
FOR the next four days, we lived with Qari, the suicide bomber, in
another small dirt house. On one afternoon, he allowed us to sit
outside in a small walled courtyard.
He even let Tahir play a game on a cellphone. But when Tahir asked for
the phone a second time, Qari shouted that we planned to send a text
message to the Kabul bureau of The Times. Suddenly enraged and
irrational, he denounced us as liars. He picked up his Kalashnikov,
pointed it at Tahir’s chest and threatened to shoot him.
Tahir stared back, unmoved. Pashtunwali — an ancient code of honor
practiced by ethnic Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan — prevented
each man from showing fear and losing face.
Asad and I stepped in front of Tahir. We begged Qari to put down his
gun. “Lutfan, lutfan,” I said, using a local expression for please.
Qari lowered his weapon but motioned for Tahir to step into an outer
room.
Through the wall, I heard Tahir begin praying in Arabic. I heard a
thump and Tahir cried out, “Allah!” A second thump and “Allah!”
Several minutes later, Tahir walked back into the room, crawled under
a blanket and began moaning. Qari had beaten him on the back with his
rifle.
Qari unnerved me. Earnestly reciting hugely inaccurate propaganda
about the West I had seen on jihadi Web sites, Qari seemed utterly
detached from reality. Other guards joked that he had mental
problems.
In my mind, Qari and Atiqullah personified polar ends of the Taliban.
Qari represented a paranoid, intractable force. Atiqullah embodied the
more reasonable faction: people who would compromise on our release
and, perhaps, even on peace in Afghanistan.
I did not know which one represented the majority. I wanted to believe
that Atiqullah did. Yet each day I increasingly feared that Qari was
the true Taliban.
The following day, Atiqullah arrived to move us again. During the
ride, he said we would be taken to a place where I could receive
bottled water and we could call our families. He promised to protect
me.
“I will not kill you,” he said. “You will survive.”
I insisted that he promise to save Tahir and Asad as well. “You will
not kill the three of us,” I said. “It has to be the three of us.”
Initially, Atiqullah refused. For days, I raised the issue over and
over, remembering that under the Pashtunwali code a promise of
protection should be ironclad. At one point, I suggested that he cut
off my finger instead of harming Tahir and Asad.
Later that day, he finally promised to protect all three of us. “I
give you my promise,” he said, as I lay down in the back of the
station wagon. “I will not kill any of the three of you.”
Then, he said, “Let’s kill Asad first,” and laughed.
THE following afternoon, a new commander arrived. A bone-thin man with
a long beard and one arm, he got into the driver’s seat and guided us
through barren, rock-strewn territory, steering the car and shifting
gears with lightning-quick movements of his one hand.
At sunset, he stopped the vehicle, and Atiqullah announced that we
would have to walk through the mountains. A large American base
blocked the path in front of us, he said. The one-armed commander gave
me a pair of worn loafers, and another guard gave me his jacket.
As we walked, I understood why Western journalists had grown enamored
of the anti-Soviet Afghan resistance fighters in the 1980s. Under a
spectacular panorama of stars, we wound our way along a steep mountain
pass. Emaciated Taliban fighters carried heavy machine guns with
little sign of fatigue. Their grit and resilience seemed boundless.
I thought about making a run for it but had not had a chance to talk
it over with Tahir and Asad. I also knew that the half-dozen guards
would quickly shoot us.
As the hike continued, I grew suspicious. Atiqullah — who had promised
to carry me if needed — proved to be in poor shape. On one of the
steepest parts of the ascent, he stopped, sat on a rock and panted.
Nine hours after we set out, the sun rose and the hike dragged on.
Asad approached me when the guards lagged behind, pointed at the way
ahead and whispered, “Miram Shah.” Miram Shah is the capital and
largest town in North Waziristan, a Taliban and Qaeda stronghold in
Pakistan’s lawless tribal areas. North Waziristan was the home of some
of the Taliban’s most hard-line members. If we were headed there, we
were doomed.
After 11 hours, our hike finally ended. The guards lighted a fire, and
we warmed our hands as we waited for a vehicle to pick us up.
Exhausted and anxious, I told myself that Asad was wrong and Atiqullah
was right. I told myself that we were walking into southern
Afghanistan, not Pakistan. I told myself we would survive.
chhotemianinshallah
readers' comments
7 Months, 10 Days in CaptivityBack to Article »
By DAVID ROHDE
A Times reporter, David Rohde, and two Afghan colleagues were
kidnapped by the Taliban in 2008 and held for seven months in
Pakistan. This is the first installment in a five-part series offering
his account.
73 Readers' Comments
"I did not fully understand how extreme many of the Taliban had
become."
"...had become..."???
You mean they weren't extreme before repressing the eduction of women
in Afghanistan? Or harboring a terrorist group, al Qaida that led to
the destruction of the WTC and thousands of innocent souls snuffed out
in seconds?
"But I also saw how some of the consequences of Washington’s
antiterrorism policies had galvanized the Taliban."
Yep. I'm done.
Recommended by 44 Readers
3.xanderhere October 17th, 2009 5:42 pm
This is amazing please post the rest
Recommended by 22 Readers
4.Jackie Rawlings california October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
Few Americans remember and no news reports are talked about when
former President Bush invited the Taliban to visited the United States
as his guest. I wonder what happen to that friendship? Yes little is
reported about how the Bin Laden Famiy visited New York for a meeting
with fellow members of the Carlye Group who's members included Dick
Cheney and George H. W. Bush. As we've watched reporters get kidnapped
and retured and America condems the action we quickly forget about how
the US kidnapped innocent men/woman/children and held them for years
while torturing them. It's a clear issue of do as we say do not as we
do. The World listen to President Obama ask for World Peace let's hope
America will listen to that message too.
Recommended by 30 Readers
5.Vernon Huffer Portland, OR October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
The more we learn and understand about the Taliban the better chance
we have of defeating or coming to a settlement with them.
Recommended by 6 Readers
6.djdarki kingston, jamaica October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
this is really gripping stuff. I'm glad he is safe and his colleague.
It is sad that the world will never see peace. sad we keep fighting
for something which we all have to eventually leave. peace.
Recommended by 9 Readers
7.vikas jogi austin tx October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
What do you think Mr Rohde is Pakistan's aim in launching an offensive
in South Waziristan when the Taliban actually are entrenched as per
your account in North Waziristan?.Is it the old game of distinguishing
the Afghan Taliban who attack Americans from the Pakistani Taliban who
are attacking the Pakistani military?
Recommended by 2 Readers
8.Robin W Maryland October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
Very compelling first hand account. Thank you. Can't wait to read and
watch the rest. I'm thankful you survived, David, to tell this story.
Recommended by 18 Readers
9.David New York, NY October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
Hey norcalguy101, sitting there safely in Arcata, CA, do you think you
know more about the Taliban that Mr. Rohde does? Do you honestly
believe you have something to teach him?
Thank you, Mr. Rohde, for your extraordinary bravery and sacrifice in
getting your readers the story.
Recommended by 34 Readers
10.Joe NY October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
norcalguy101 wrote:
"But I also saw how some of the consequences of Washington’s
antiterrorism policies had galvanized the Taliban."
Yep. I'm done.
Talk about knee jerk reaction. No one, including the journalist is
glorifying the Taliban, but if you fail to see that Western policy
post 9/11 has galvanized and strengthened fundamentalists such as the
Taliban, then you really need to take off your blinkers.
David Rhode was treated reasonably well in captivity, no water
boarding, no prison abuse. Unfortunately, not the same can be said
about some unfortunate muslims under US detention... Just some food
for thought.
Recommended by 66 Readers
11.Nat Wilmington, DE October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
David, I am happy you are amongst us now to write this.
Recommended by 17 Readers
12.Kathryn Buffalo, NY October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
Great. Let's see how much money we can make off of sensationalizing
people's misery.
Oh wait... that is what the modern news media lives for.
Recommended by 9 Readers
13.Donald Surr Pennsylvania October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
I look forward to reading the rest, but even this much convinces me of
the folly of trying to bring about any change in this part of the
world by military presence as we understand it. The only possible
solution is to let the Pakistanis contain them in their own way as
best they can.
Stay out of their part of the planet and confront them only if they
try to enter ours.
Recommended by 24 Readers
14.John V. Rutledge Greenville, SC October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
As the late Paul Harvey reminded us, "It is not one world."
Recommended by 5 Readers
15.Steve Brooklyn, NY October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
And how many NATO troops died rescuing this reporter who probably
should not have been there in the first pace?
Recommended by 20 Readers
16.ann berkeley,ca October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
This was incredibly compelling reporting. Can't wait for the rest.
Needless to say, thank god David is safe and back on (relatively)
friendly soil.
Recommended by 6 Readers
17.Lisa Bang Chicago, IL October 17th, 2009 9:59 pm
Great piece! Can't wait for the rest, and am glad that Rohde is well
and writing.
Recommended by 5 Readers
18.Thomas Q. Kelley Los Angeles October 17th, 2009 10:02 pm
Hey norcalguy, don't be so sure of your own abilities to assess
things. The reporter is talking about matters of degrees: "how
extreme," "how some." May seem dim in 20/20 hindsight, but if it
weren't for some recklessness by war journalists, we'd be blind.
Reading on, this is actually a terribly fascinating and informative
account.
One thing we can certainly take from this is that the Taliban is not
just "extreme," but still a mortal threat and increasingly dangerous.
The question is how exactly and what that means for us going forward.
Whether that means we give up, and risk an even worse outcome than the
pre-9/11 era, or go for it and pincer them with the Pakistani Army at
great loss of American lives, or something in between, I grow less
sure by the day. No wonder Obama is still taking all this in. I hope
he's reading this series too.
We're on the precipice of something awful. That said, we've been
through much worse before.
Recommended by 9 Readers
19.Jed B.Brooklyn, NY October 17th, 2009 10:02 pm
Kabul is held hostage by the US/NATO occupation. Thousands have been
killed in a nation already destroyed from decades of war. One
journalist is free, yet Afghanistan is bombed daily.
Can we leave yet, since we plainly have no (good) business there?
Recommended by 17 Readers
20.Liz Portland, OR October 17th, 2009 10:02 pm
Incredible story. I cannot wait to read the next installments.
Recommended by 5 Readers
21.Hannah Long Island, NY October 17th, 2009 10:02 pm
Amazing post.
And elana, Gilad Shalit is a soldier-not a journalist. To my
knowledge, there are plenty of Palestinians in Israeli custody. It's
not the same thing.
Recommended by 24 Readers
22.BTMAC6 AFGHANISTAN October 17th, 2009 10:02 pm
How much did your foolish idea cost the U.S. Tax payers, and military
in searching for you? Did that ever cross your mind while trying to
get your story? You should be billed for the entire government effort
in the search for you. You are irresponsible and a fake.
Recommended by 25 Readers
23.Ned harper Mancos, CO October 17th, 2009 10:02 pm
I can access only part one. Is more available and, if so, how?
24.Michael Dallas October 17th, 2009 10:02 pm
This is fantastic. Your bravery should be applauded, Mr. Rohde. It is
important that we realize how dangerous a religion can be when its
followers live in extreme poverty, such as those that you encountered
in the Taliban. The United States needs to focus on aiding
Afghanistan, not by sending more military force into an already
hostile region which would only stimulate even more spite against the
West, but by building up education and a strong government.
As long as a society lives in ignorance, only violence and intolerance
can thrive. Pointing guns at them certainly won't help our cause.
Recommended by 10 Readers
25.xyh200 Manhattan, NY October 17th, 2009 10:02 pm
First off, let me say that this is an AMAZING article -- this is the
first time I've read an article that really delves deeper than the
tradiational school of thought which understands that "the Taliban are
terrorists, there's nothing more to them than that since they're
terrorists, we need to approach this from a tactical standpoint, etc."
This article doesn't challenge the longheld assumptions that Americans
have of the Taliban, but rather exists outside of this and provides a
fresh, clean, and honest story of the reporter's account of his
kidnapping. Mr. Rohde really captures the tone, personality, and
culture of his unfortonate immersion into this slice of the Taliban.
To come in as a hostage and to escape and write in such an incredibly
profound and honest of his ordeal is much more than a lot of us could
do.
I'm really looking forward to reading and listening to the next
installments of this article. It's really nice to see that the NYT and
its reporters delve into rather than avoid the vague and the
complicated.
GREAT WORK! I've posted this article through Twitter, Facebook, and
LinkedIn. This article deserves to be read, appreciated, and talked
about.
Recommended by 16 Readers
26.brendancaron vancouver, B.C.October 17th, 2009 10:02 pm
Welcome back.
The Taliban/al Qaeda murdering terrorists are as they were thought to
be by myself. Criminals in religious garb. Prevaricators of the
highest order.
Glad that you aren't there for the military assault against these
murderous rogues. Looking forward to reading the upcoming series about
these bad guys and how they use Pakistan as their base. There's no
denying it now.
Recommended by 5 Readers
27.armstb3 Washington, DC October 17th, 2009 10:03 pm
Incredible, looking forward to the rest of the piece.
Recommended by 1 Reader
28.Delacroix Wisconsin October 17th, 2009 10:03 pm
Extraordinary story of survival, can't wait to read the rest.
Recommended by 1 Reader
29.Tim Washington October 17th, 2009 10:03 pm
This is an example of why we need newspapers, and why I did my part
and subscribed. Excellent piece. Look forward to reading the rest.
Recommended by 7 Readers
30.Mark CA October 17th, 2009 10:03 pm
Thanks for sharing your ordeal, which offer insight to Talibans. The
Bush/Chenney have made a mess out of afghanistan war, by diverting all
attention from the region and dragging our country to the worst
disaster in Iraq.
Recommended by 6 Readers
31.Erich Seattle, WA October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
I wonder if the soldiers that fought for our country and are held/have
been held in captivity, or killed, will get a front-page story on the
NY Times.
Nah.
(Oh, and Elena S, post #1: This is an American newspaper. If you care
so much about Israel's concerns, then read Israeli news.)
Recommended by 2 Readers
32.Yaxshi Montclair, NJ October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
Hi, This of course is interesting, informative and opens our eyes but
why is the headline so big? As if this is another 911. I just don't
understand.
Recommended by 3 Readers
33.Kristin Brooklyn October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
This is incredible. I feel guilty reading it, knowing what had to
happen for me to get this first-hand view of the Taliban.
34.harry olympia,wa October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
Thank God we still have men and women willing to risk their lives to
tell us what's going on. They are so removed from the pampered talking
heads and self-absorbed bloggers who pass for journalists in the year
2009. Thanks to the reporter for taking the risk despite his own
misgivings. He came back with a very important, very timely story for
America and the world.
Recommended by 5 Readers
35.Walter A.Minnesota October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
I am glad that Mr. Rohde survived and is now safe. But the part of his
story that we have read so far shows an amazing degree of naivete
regading the true nature and thinking of the Taliban (whether Afghani
or Pakistani), al Qaida, and the other religiously fanatical extremist
groups in that part of the world.
Recommended by 2 Readers
36.Tony New York October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
When Muslims around the world don't condemn the brutality of Islamist
as strongly and loudly as they criticize America and Europe, then they
are silently supporting the fanatics. From Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria to
India and Philippines Islam is forcefully spreading it's ideology of
fear and repression around the world.
Recommended by 6 Readers
37.tgny October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
Thank you. Thank you for trying to bring us information we need to
have, to be informed citizens.
And welcome home. All the best to you and your family.
Recommended by 4 Readers
38.lbukhari canada October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
two wrongs never make a right. Talibans are wrong and so are those
fighting with them. War in Afghanistan started when I was a school
girl in Pakistan. It is very sad it has not ended to date. It was
nevertheless touching to see Mr. Rhode's journalistic ethics to quote
some of the gestures of Taliban commanders as they gave him their
loafers and jackets to keep warm, never hit him and always treated him
in an islamic manner. of course, these people have had their own set
of human weaknesses, yet it is a fact in the words of Mr. Rhode there
is something about these hardy fighters of the mountains that infact
did and still enamor the western journalists since 1980s. you know
what that is? somethig that we in this part of the world have
abandoned- strong devotion to a value system.
Recommended by 4 Readers
39.wjjrip Boston, MA October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
Incredible piece of journalism. This may be insensitive but Rohde went
in looking to understand the Taliban, and it looks like he got a real
taste. I think this is an extremely important story to hear, and I
will be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting.
One question- how are the Taliban talking on cell phones? I don't get
reception in many urban parts of the US- but in North Waziristan? Are
they hooking the phones up to a transmitter?
Recommended by 2 Readers
40.madrona washington October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
NYT, will you pay the full cost? Taxpayers should not be burdened by
this nonsense.
Recommended by 1 Reader
41.MT Washington, DC October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
Sorry, but this story doesn't have any larger significance beyond the
personal experiences and anecdotes contained in the article. There are
very little data here that would significantly inform or influence a
policy maker's judgement, for example.
I take a skeptical view when reporters become the news rather than
report it. What the NYT should have done in this case treat Mr. Rohde
et al as another source, i.e. another reporter should have been
assigned to write the story after interviewing Mr. Rohde and other
sources, both in Afghanistan and in the US, performing fact checking,
reviewing the documentary evidence, etc.
The Public Editor should weigh in on the process that the NYT editors
used to vet Mr. Rohde's first-person account, so that readers can
assess for themselves the credibility of the article.
This article does not belong in the news section of the newspaper and
website, which (in my view) should be reserved for hard news and
independent analysis. An article as personal as this one is, by
definition, neither hard news nor independent analysis, and thus this
article should have instead been published in, say, the NYT Magazine,
which is a more appropriate outlet for an article of this length,
nature, and style.
Recommended by 11 Readers
42.Alki Kalotis Berkeley, California October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
Like "norcalguy101" I'm hoping that this doesn't turn out to be a tale
of Stockholm Syndrome, like Yvonne Ridley's "How I Learned to Love the
Veil."
The Taliban are cunning, ruthless dupes of anti-Western propaganda.
I'm very glad that Mr. Rohde survived his captivity, and hope, as this
story progresses, that his two companions do as well. But I do not
believe that the Taliban captors are worth sympathizing or empathizing
with.
Machiavelli wrote, "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."
It is good advice for us in Afghanistan, and Pakistan, where the
Taliban and Al Qaeda are dangerously close to taking over a nuclear
state. By all means necessary find out about them and their plans. But
see clearly that they mean the destruction of civilization in favor of
backwards tribalism. They practice a warped version of Islam crusted
over with ancient tribal attitudes, customs, and beliefs.
Greg Mortenson's book, "Three Cups of Tea" shows the power of
educating children, especially girls. Providing education and superior
infrastructure than the Taliban can provide (something that Mr. Rohde
alluded to) will ultimately win out against them.
The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest and most
disenfranchised members. In Afghanistan, those would surely be the
women and children. In Taliban "society" women are treated
atrociously. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never raised a hand, or even
his voice, to any of his wives. Allah's Messenger (pbuh) preached
kindness and mercy, and practiced patience. The Prophet (pbuh)
believed in education for women, as stated in Sahih Al-Bukhari,
Chapter 25, and even set aside a special day of the week to teach
them.
We can not, must not and will not give the Taliban one inch of moral
ground to stand on. Their hands are too bloody. Their practice of
Islam is too warped by their lack of tolerance and compassion. Their
victims are too many and too random to give them an honorable title of
a "jihad", which means a holy struggle. There is nothing holy or
honorable in what they are doing. They are bandits, muggers, rapists
and murderers.
Recommended by 6 Readers
43.Major Dani Las Vegas October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
We should bring ALL the US military from Irak and Afganistan home
right away. Forget the oil and let the arabs, pakistanis, afganis et
all solve their own problems. All we can say to them is not to bother
us, otherwise, we'll use some of our nukes on them. IMO, not one
single drop of americans blood it's worth the price of oil or the
favors of the arabs tribals. Obama wake up and bring the troops home
NOW.
44.Bonnie Arcata, CA October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
Reading this story by Mr. Rohde convinces me even more that we cannot
bring stability to this country with military action. The situation is
way too complex for the ordinary soldier to be able to contribute much
in the way of fixing things. At this particular moment in history we
should have learned that force and violence do not ever reap positive
results. It may have worked during WWII but this is a different world.
We need to get over the "us" versus "them" mentality and start
thinking about a brotherhood of mankind. I know some will not be able
to join that brotherhood because they have become too polarized. It
seems true changes are only going to happen at a grassroots level,
ordinary citizens reaching out to other peoples of the world.
Political and monitary interests go hand in hand and many of us have
become distrusting. We need to go back to our roots as human beings
and realize that what we want is usually what most peoples of the
world also want, an end to poverty, enough food and water and shelter.
Don't you think it's about time those basic needs become a reality.
Think of all the money being spent on military operations that could
build schools, homes, plant gardens, etc.
Recommended by 1 Reader
45.Ric Krusemann Singapore October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
A simply outstanding narrative of an ostensibly life changing
experience. I read it throughout without flinching with utmost focus.
I am throughly excited to read you're next pieces. The thoughts that
must have raced through your head. You're were brave to have survived
this not only physically but mentally, but even more so I'd like to
acknowledge you're selflessness in you're unyielding appeas to you're
captors to spare the lives of you're Afghan colleagues, Tahir and
Asad.
David Rohde, you are the eptiome of an adventurous American
journalistic hero in search of the truth. I applaud you for you're
values and determination. Speaking as a member of the continent of
Asia and a fellow global citizen, I'd like to say, You, Sir, are a
citizen America should truly be proud of.
Recommended by 1 Reader
46.wnvinso Burke, Virginia October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
What still angers me is how hard the media worked to suppress
reporting on Rohde's captivity when indeed they would have published
information on someone "not of their own caste" almost immediately,
regardless of the consequences. The sacrosanct NY Times - one set of
rules for all of us and a different set for those inside the Grey
Lady's protective bubble.
Recommended by 3 Readers
47.mikerol seattle, wa October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
I notice as in so many reports from Afghanistan a complete absence of
mention of the U.S. under Carter and Brzezinski destabilizing
Afghanistan, a country of 25 million people, to draw in the Russians,
as far as I am concerned that is such a huge crime to do that to a
people for the sake of an ideological objective that both Carter and
Brzezinski deserve to be put before the tribunal at De Hague. I wonder
whether David Rhodes found any awareness among the Afghans to the
extent that their country had been so misused.
Recommended by 1 Reader
48.Brandon NY, NY October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
I was truly riveted by this first installment. I am a bit taken aback
by how much cynicism is present in some of these comments. We are all
processing this war and this world together, and I cannot imagine a
bigger folly than thinking that I understand it better than everyone
else. This is a provocative story and I appreciate hearing it.
Recommended by 3 Readers
49.Oz Queens, NY October 18th, 2009 6:17 am
To # 21 Hanna,
You failed to distinguish why Gilad Shalit is different than David
Rohde. In other words, whether Gilad was kidnapped while on a routine
patrol (which he was) or if he was grabbed from his bed at home while
on leave, it would be ok? If a U.S. soldier was kidnapped from
anywhere in the U.S. and taken to a terrorist stronghold, does his
being a soldier make the abduction ok?
Did you know that Hamas and their buddies routinely hold remains of
Israeli soldiers they kill and only return them in exchange for some
of their partners in crime being held in Israeli prisons? Is that
"different" too?
It is thinking like yours that creates precedent for terrorists being
able to get away with such heinous activity without the world blinking
an eye.
Recommended by 2 Readers
50.Paul SF October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
NY Joe said:
"David Rhode was treated reasonably well in captivity, no water
boarding, no prison abuse. Unfortunately, not the same can be said
about some unfortunate muslims under US detention... Just some food
for thought."
Reasonably well? Pluheez. Kidnapped. Ransomed. Threatened. Maltreated
despite the so-called "honor code". And who's driver and interpreter
were killed. While I'm no fan of unlawful detention or Guantanamo, the
suggestion that terrorists caught in battle deserve better treatment
than a journalist is unbelievable. Too many nitwits need to give their
head a big shake.
Recommended by 4 Readers
51.carlavenice, caOctober 18th, 20096:21 amDear Mr. President, please
pay attention to David Rohde's story and the comments of Charlie
Wilson. Thank you. - and thank YOU David, for stayin' alive.
Recommended by 1 Reader
52.berrymonster Orlando, Fl October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
A man captured in Afghanistan, held in captivity for a long time.
It sounds like several of those at Guantanamo.
Is the NYT going to print their stories too?
Recommended by 5 Readers
53.H. Chang Monterey, California October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
Amazing story. I'm glad that you survived and came back. Looking
forward to seeing the rest of it.
54.History Chicago, IL October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
Great story, David, but I must remind many of your readers that your
writing prior to your kidnapping and throughout the Bush presidency
was undeniably sympathetic to the Taliban.
I am shocked they did not treat you better.
Recommended by 3 Readers
55.norcalguy101 Arcata, CA October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
Wow. I certainly gained a vortex of attention.
I'm not sorry I moved your cheese. The Taliban are terrorists. Our
antiterrorism actions "galvanized" the Taliban's....when I see
provacative hyperbole I call it out...simple as that...
excuse me...the Yankees just scored in the bottom of the 14th...I've
got more important matters to attend to...
This is a comment thread fer gawsh sakes...you are not altering the
posture of the world...show some respect folks...apparently some
people appreciated my post...thanks..
Peace all...
56.Dave D.Virginia October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
The NYT seems to be milking this story for everything it can. The real
story concerning Afghanistan and Pakistan is much larger and the
associated issues are much broader than presented in this article. I
appreciate Rohde's writing and understand the defining life moment in
regards to his captivity - but give me a break Times and David - your
Afghan adventure is just that - an adventure gone wrong for a
newspaper and an individual - nothing less and nothing more.
Recommended by 3 Readers
57.Ray New York, NY October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
I agree with many of the previous posts. Mr. Rohde, while lucky to be
alive today, was highly irresponsible. I am concerned that the New
York Times is now attempting to publicize his folly. If you read any
of his accounts of his previous kidnapping, you get a sense that this
guy has no understandings of his responsibility as a journalist and
visitor in foreign lands. I worked in Iraq as a civilian contractor
for two years, and I now work in Pakistan. Westerners like me do not
have free reign to go "wherever the story is." This is both careless
and sometimes life-threatening. I agree that Mr. Rohde should pay back
all of the funds expended to secure his release. The definition of a
fool, as so many know, is to do something more than once and expect a
different result. Has it ever crossed Mr. Rohde's mind why he has been
kidnapped more than once while many of his other well-accomplished
journalist peers have not? Shame on the New York Times.
Recommended by 6 Readers
58.oelvis boston, ma October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
The New York Times did not have any articles about the capture of this
journalist because they did not want to put him in danger. Isn't that
wonderful of the Times. Yet if any other person is kidnapped in one of
these Islamic countries, the Times will go into excruciating and
unrelenting details about him/her and couldn't care less about the
danger they are exposing that person to. Did they ever dream of not
reporting all the news that's fit to print?
Recommended by 2 Readers
59.Sumanta India October 18th, 20096:21 am
#10.
"David Rhode was treated reasonably well in captivity, no water
boarding, no prison abuse. Unfortunately, not the same can be said
about some unfortunate muslims under US detention... Just some food
for thought."
It is sometimes baffling to see the sheer naivete of comments like
these. Because they seem to possess a degree of fairness, they can
easily cloud the much needed clarity of thought. However, they are
incorrect, plain and simple.
The torture to the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, very distressing as
they are, are after all a set of reactions to a devastating act of
terrorism. The US did not send soldiers to Afghanistan to torture out
of some subconscious rage of being belittled or some fantastic
aspiration of forming a religious empire. This does not mean that
torture to the prisoners is just or fair - it most definitly is not,
and everybody should get a fair trial - but accusing the US of being
worse in this regard than the Taliban or ther ilk is simply wrong.
As for the humane treatment given to captives by the terrorists/
extremists, think back of Daniel Pearl. Lest one thinks this was just
a one off incident, a few years ago a young Indian man returning home
from honeymoon in Nepal was cooly stabbed to death in front of his
newly-married wife in the highjacked Indian Airlines plane in
Kandahar.
I am sure you know there are many other such examples.
Recommended by 4 Readers
60.Chris Tompkins SF Bay October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
To Mr. Rohde: I am glad you are home and am sorry you had to endure
such a difficult kidnapping, I cant begin to imagine how hard that
must have been.
That being said, to the editors of the NYtimes: Journalists do not
belong on the front page of a newspaper, let alone in one of the
largest multimedia mini-series's I've ever seen done before. He
willingly went into this place knowing the risks, not heroically, but
to do his job. I have known journalists both kidnapped and held
against their will (one right now being Shane Bauer, held in Iran).
I'm sure their situation is beyond what I can understand, but
newspapers should not be in the position of staring at themselves and
their own work more than doing extroverted reporting. Journalists
going to these places sign up for the risk, our readers do not want to
hear meta-stories when the precious waning reporting resources could
be concentrated on a more self-less agenda.
Recommended by 7 Readers
61.Terry MAGUIRE Chapel Hill, NC October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
In the midst of all of the discussions underway about the future of
newspapers, one might be expected to say that David's (yes, I do know
him) reporting is one of the reasons why newspapers like the Times are
so important. I do say that. He has risked much on many occasions to
bring home to each of us the "story". That is critically important and
we should all be appreciative of what he has done and what the Times
and the Christian Science Monitor have allowed him to do in the past.
There is another aspect to this, moreover, that I think is worth
mentioning. In this interconnected and always "on" world in which we
seem to live, I think we need to have more discussions about what
information we would like to have and then what we do with what we
get, and what the differences are among the various places from which
we might get stories.
This is not to say that we need to value the Times above all others,
although it deserves to be above most for many reasons. What is
important is that we use something like this magnificent reporting of
David's experience to better put in perspective the information needs
not just of us personally, but of the people around us at any
moment... and how, having gotten information we value, what we do with
what we have received and learned.
How, in the end, do we use the stupendous tools at our disposal -
ranging from David ROHDE through computers and satellites, etc. to the
internet and all manner of consumption devices from newsprint to
implants - to better understand ourselves and the lives around us?
David's series is a wonderful starting place for that discussion.
Recommended by 3 Readers
62.RKGS1 Daytona Beach, FL October 18th, 2009 6:21 am
He should have never gone on this mission.
Recommended by 4 Readers
63.Alan Washington October 18th, 2009 6:23 am
Excellent - talk about real journalism! Can't wait for the rest of the
series.
64.S.Khalid Husain Karachi, Pakistan October 18th, 2009 6:23 am
If Mr Rohde has been able to understand what is it exactly the
Talibans want from Pakistan, and shares his understanding with us,
that'll helpful.
So far most of us in Pak have not quite understood what the Talibans
are 'fighting' for? Sharia? Islamic Emirate? Getting the Americans out
of Afghanistan? Iraq? Kashmir? Palestine? If they win then what do
they want to do? All this is a bit of a mystry made even so by
'visitng' reporters who involuntarily, or otherwise, become guests of
terrorists, and reports of their experience as terrorists' 'guest' add
to the confusion and serve as flattering outlet for the terrorists and
gives them hope.
A major offensive has been launched by Pakistan against the
terrorists, which is what the Talibans are and nothing more, the
western media can help by staying out of the way by not providing
succour to the terrorists. through its naivity.
Its one thing to report an ongoing operation quite another to
foolishly become aiders and abettors of terrorists.
Recommended by 5 Readers
65.Dan T New Zealand October 18th, 2009 6:23 am
Hey - Seven months huh? The U. S. kidnapped hundreds and held them for
what, like seven years in Guantánamo before finally releasing them
without any charges.
Recommended by 4 Readers
66.Independent San Diego, CA October 18th, 2009 6:23 am
I'm happy that David is alive, but he was incredibly lucky. The
Taliban normally murder and/or torture and/or maim their victims.
David was high profile enough that keeping him alive had value for the
Taliban.
Bush totally screwed things up in Afghanistan by bleeding troops to
start the war in Iraq. This was a huge tactical and strategic error
that we are paying for now. The Taliban were and are the bad guys.
That has not changed in 8 years.
I hope we defeat the Taliban the second time around. However, I'm very
concerned that we are once again repeating the mistakes of Viet Nam
namely tying the hands of our soldiers (due to the rules of
engagement) and under resourcing the Military.
Recommended by 1 Reader
67.Kate S Hanoi, Vietnam October 18th, 2009 6:23 am
It is a gift to Americans that David Rohde escaped from his captors
and lived to tell this story. We cannot get a sense of the situation
there from watching television news and even in the newspapers it is
rare that a story comes along which gives you this type of real and
raw look into what is going on.
After reading this first installment, I am touched by the honesty of
David's account. Unfortunately, it was in a fearful and imprisoned
state, but he got to experience the inner world of these Taliban
operatives. That could not have happened from a one hour interview.
As he mentions in the article, what we call the 'Taliban' is a loosely
connected network of commanders. So what holds these groups together?
I look forward to reading the next installment to find out more.
Thanks David for your high impact account.
Recommended by 2 Readers
68.esmiles6 nyc October 18th, 2009 6:23 am
Very interesting and can’t wait to read the rest! I would also love to
hear the opinion of Mr. Rohde and the Times staff based in Afghanistan
and Pakistan on the various options being weighed by the Obama
administration. I often think the American public only hears the voice/
agenda of politicians and activists on the far left and far right. I
would value a voice from a more neutral source to add to the policy
discussion—people with years of personal and professional experience
working, living, traveling, and socializing in the region.
69.VL Hong Kong October 18th, 2009 6:23 am
Thank you for the bravery.
70.temret Boston October 18th, 2009 6:23 am
What left-wing tripe. This man is captive for 7 months and he praises
these people. He is an innocent reporter, is held captive, and he
praises them! Norcalguy101 is right on. These people have savaged
their own, foreigners, and many 'non-beleivers' and beleivers alike,
and they are nice guys! Give me a break. The rest of you should do
some basic reading about the Taliban before you accept them and
condemn the West.
Recommended by 3 Readers
71.MAZ Paris October 18th, 2009 6:23 am
David Rohde was "inspired by popular desire for moderate, modern
societies", this shows once again the cultural ignorance of Americans
when it comes to rural Afghanistan.
He was captured by Haqqani's men who have maintained close links with
Al Qaeda and other foreign militants since the 1980s. Their agenda is
different from the agenda of the taliban of South Afghanistan whom I
would describe as islamo-nationalists fighting to free their land from
foreign occupation and do not represent a threat to the West.
Recommended by 3 Readers
72.Scoobydood New Jersey October 18th, 2009 6:23 am
Pfc. Bowe Bergdahl has been a prisoner of the Taliban since June 30,
2009. He is the only US soldier who is currently a prisoner of war in
Afghanistan, and it is hardly ever written about in the US press.
I'd also like to congratulate the Israeli Fifth Column for getting the
first comment in about captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. Shalit's
plight is horrifying, but this was NOT a story about Israel or even
about Hamas. It was a story about the Taliban and Afghanistan. It
would be SO refreshing if the Israeli lobby in the US worried about
the plight of our own soliders for once, rather than foreign
nationals.
Recommended by 2 Readers
73.Tomas Busque Philippines October 18th, 2009 6:50 am
You paint a harsh, sheer, even cruel picture of the Taliban. Were
there ever any light moments you had with your captors, a sort of
humane and gentle connection, suggesting that they can be win over if
engaged genuinely and properly.
Also, did you ever sense an aspect where you could agree with your
captors, as in societal reform or a revivalism of Islamic art or the
like.
74.Boston voter Massachusetts October 18th, 2009 9:59 am
Whew! Amazing!
I was especially struck by this part, from the very beginning:
"I thought of my wife and family and was overcome with shame. An
interview that seemed crucial hours earlier now seemed absurd and
reckless."
I thought: Sort of sums up the whole situation with these wars.
It all seemed crucial. Now it all seems "absurd and reckless."
I will be glad when we see all American troops home. The Middle East
is what it is. And what it will be is anyone's guess.
Sid Harth
Three Taliban group commanders captured in N Afghanistan
www.chinaview.cn 2009-10-18 19:58:57
KABUL, Oct. 18 (Xinhua) -- Afghan National Police (ANP) in
Afghanistan's northern Baghlan province detained three Taliban sub-
commanders in an operation targeting the rebels, provincial police
chief said on Sunday.
"An operation has been conducted since Friday in Baghlan-e-Markazi
to target a known group of rebels believed to coordinate and direct
militants activities in the area, "police chief of Baghlan Kabir
Andarabi told Xinhua. "As a result, three Taliban commanders Mullah
Shahzada, Mullah Shikh and a foreign national were detained."
ANP searched the compound discovering weapons and other related
items, Andarabi added. "An ambulance which has been taken by militants
form district hospital was also found."
The official also said that the operation would be continuing to
wipe out all militants form the province.
Taliban militants have been attempted to infiltrate in Northern
provinces as NATO forces recently used northern part of the post-
Taliban country as a new corridor to their military convoys.
Editor: Deng Shasha
Sid Harth
Cash prize set to curb terrorist activities in Afghanistan
www.chinaview.cn 2009-10-18 15:33:00
KABUL, Oct. 18 (Xinhua) -- In efforts to overcome terrorist
activities, Afghanistan Interior Ministry has sought the support of
locals and set prize for those provide information about the
whereabouts of militants in the capital city, a press release received
Sunday said.
"The enemies of our people have been planning to carry out
terrorist attacks in different parts of Kabul, thus the Interior
Ministry is seeking the support of locals in order to foil terrorist
activities," the statement said.
It added that anyone, who provides information leading to arrest
of terrorists, would be prized with 2 million Afghanis (40,000 U.S.
dollars).
Kabul and other Afghan cities have been experiencing Taliban-
linked suicide and roadside attacks over the past couple of years.
A deadly suicide car bombing targeting Indian embassy in Kabul on
October 8 left 17 dead and over 80 others injured, with majority of
them civilians.
Editor: Deng Shasha
Sid Harth
Same old mistakes in new Afghan war
Soviet military archives show latest international intervention in
Afghanistan has learnt nothing from the war two decades ago
Peter Beaumont, foreign affairs editor The Observer, Sunday 18 October
2009 Article history
Korengal Valley, Afghanistan. Photograph: John Moore/Getty Images
Eight years into the war in Afghanistan: the most senior defence
official running the conflict receives a letter from one of his
officers. It is a depressing list of political and tactical failures.
"We should honestly admit," he writes, "that our efforts over the last
eight years have not led to the expected results. Huge material
resources and considerable casualties did not produce a positive end
result – stabilisation of military-political situation in the country.
The protracted character of the military struggle and the absence of
any serious success, which could lead to a breakthrough in the entire
strategic situation, led to the formation in the minds of the majority
of the population of the mistrust in the abilities of the regime."
"The experience of the past years," he continues bleakly, "clearly
shows that the Afghan problem cannot be solved by military means only.
We should decisively reject our illusions and undertake principally
new steps, taking into account the lessons of the past, and the real
situation in the country..."
The date is 17 August… 1987. The writer is Colonel K. Tsagalov and he
is addressing the newly appointed Soviet defence minister, Dmitry
Yazov.
Fast-forward 22 years to the confidential briefing paper prepared for
President Barack Obama by the senior US general in Afghanistan,
Stanley McChrystal, in August 2009, eight years into the US-led
intervention in Afghanistan.
"The weakness of state institutions, malign actions of power-brokers,
widespread corruption and abuse of power by various officials, and
Isaf's own errors, have given Afghans little reason to support their
government," McChrystal argued in a document leaked to Bob Woodward of
the Washington Post. He said the consequence had been a "crisis of
confidence among Afghans. Further, a perception that our resolve is
uncertain makes Afghans reluctant to align with us against the
insurgents".
The American led-effort, wrote McChrystal, echoing Tsaglov, was
labouring under its own illusions regarding its competence. "Afghan
social, political, economic, and cultural affairs are complex and
poorly understood. [Nato and the US] does not sufficiently appreciate
the dynamics in local communities, nor how the insurgency, corruption,
incompetent officials, power-brokers, and criminality all combine to
affect the Afghan population." The war was in danger of being lost.
In Washington the talk in recent weeks has been of a "Vietnam moment".
Commentators have pored over new studies of that war, looking deep
into the heart of one US military debacle in order to think their way
out of another. But what if Afghanistan – as Artemy Kalinovsky argued
in Foreign Policy magazine last month – is not the new Vietnam but
rather "the new Afghanistan"?
Should not US and British policy makers be studying the lessons of the
Soviet Union's disastrous war from 1979-89, if they want to avoid
history's mistakes?
Kalinovsky writes: "The US army/marine corps counterinsurgency field
manual does not mention the Soviet experience once. One analyst told
me that when she suggested including the conflict as a way to inform
current policy, Pentagon officials seemed to have little awareness
about what Moscow had been trying to do there or for how long.
Yet, to cite one parallel, McChrystal has just announced he wants to
relocate isolated firebases – including one at Kamdesh that came close
to being overwhelmed by Taliban fighters on 3 October – to relocate
troops in population centres. The Russians, confronted by a widening
conflict, were forced to adopt the same strategy.
The Soviet war, at its conclusion, cost more than a million Afghan
lives, 26,000 Soviet soldiers died and more than five million Afghans
fled the devastated country. Soviet troop numbers reached 108,000 at
their peak. True, the mujahideen, unlike the Taliban today, benefited
from US and other foreign military aid. And the present conflict has
lacked the same intensity, with 800 US soldiers killed and more than
220 Britons, in addition to thousands of Afghans.
But while the scale is different, a study of Soviet archives shows the
intellectual failures associated with both wars are the same, a point
reinforced by the official history of the Soviet war, prepared by
Russia's general staff after the retreat.
"The Soviet government and the Soviet high command," its authors
bitterly observed, "did not study Afghanistan's national-historic
factors before committing Soviet forces. If they had, they would have
found a history of many centuries of resisting various conquerors. The
Afghan considers any foreigner carrying weapons as an alien occupier."
The reality too, as Kalinovsky argued last month, is that neither the
Russians nor the Americans intended to become embroiled in long wars.
Leonid Brezhnev, the Soviet leader who ordered the Soviet invasion to
bring down the brutal Afghan communist president, Hafizullah Amin, in
1979, hoped troops could be home within months, leaving military and
other advisers – backed by huge economic and logistical support – to
build a communist government that could stand on its own feet. It was
an error repeated by the US-led efforts to rebuild the country as a
democratic state.
Professor Chris Bellamy of Cranfield University – an expert on Soviet
military history, whose students include serving British army officers
– is one of many struck by the similarities. "I remember meeting a
Russian general after the Soviet war," he recalled. "He said to me –
we should have read Kipling! Now it has come round again, we should
have read the Soviet history of Afghanistan."
Belatedly, said Bellamy, his institution had been approached to run a
course for British officers en route to Afghanistan on the country's
culture and society.
The Soviet preoccupation with Afghanistan – even in the months before
the invasion as the number of Soviet military advisers reached
thousands – seems strikingly familiar. At a meeting in the Kremlin on
1 April 1979, after an uprising in Herat against the Afghan communist
government, Moscow's most senior officials, including Brezhnev,
considered a report by foreign minister Andrei Gromyko, defence
minister Dmitry Ustinov and KGB director Yuri Andropov. Their analysis
– as prescient then as today – described a country in which "Afghan
reactionary forces [were] skilfully taking advantage of the almost
complete illiteracy of the population, complex international and inter-
tribal conflicts, religious fanaticism and nationalism".
It depicted a mujahideen insurgency in transition – as the neo-Taliban
insurgency would also develop – "from covert subversive actions to
open armed forms of activity" the aim of which was to "widen the front
of the struggle, to force the government to disperse its forces across
different regions".
Just as western officials now home in on the failings of the Hamid
Karzai regime three decades later, the Soviet leadership lamented the
lack of legitimacy and authority of their man in Kabul – Nur Mohammad
Taraki – recommending, as US and British officials would do later,
that the primary task of the Afghan leaders was to "create a new state
apparatus, reorganise and strengthen the army and gather practical
experience in building a state and party".
It was this desire – insistence on a modern, centralised state similar
to the one the international community would seek – that the Soviet
Union realised was one of the biggest factors to its catastrophe in
Afghanistan.
As a result, in both conflicts foreign forces have found themselves
propping up a minority grouping with unsustainable claims to
nationwide legitimacy. Russia backed the narrowly represented
supporters of the PDPA, the fractious and divided Afghan communist
party; now Nato has promoted a small elite surrounding Karzai's weak
government.
"The similarities are striking," said Gregory Feifer, American author
of The Great Gamble, a highly praised new history of the Soviet
intervention. "I am reminded of it every time I hear an official talk
about national reconciliation. The Soviets spoke about nothing else
for nine years. But the goals were different, if the tactics often
were similar."
Reading translations of the Soviet record at the National Security
Archive and the Cold War International History Project in the US, it
is not only the obvious points of comparison that stand out but the
detail. Just as US and Nato forces would struggle after the new
Taliban insurgency to prevent fighters returning to areas already
cleared, the Russians suffered a similar problem while officers
complained about the quality of their Afghan army comrades.
Soviet officials complain of not being able to win on the battlefield
decisively and of losing the "propaganda war". Recently US envoy
Richard Holbrooke and McChrystal have talked of the need "to wrest the
information initiative from the Taliban and other groups".
Arne Westad, the London School of Economics history professor who was
one of the first to study the Soviet archive, is "constantly stunned"
by the parallels. "I remember interviewing a member of the presidium
of the Soviet foreign ministry, who dissented from the official line.
He warned [the Soviets] that they needed to examine the British
experience in Afghanistan and was derided. He was told: it is not the
same. It was a different army. But it is [the same]."
Westad is concerned that while the Russians began to demonstrate a
more flexible military approach after 1983, Nato and US forces appear
to be slower to adapt. In particular, there has been a refusal to lose
the old obsession with establishing a unified, "modern" state.
Afghanistan is a tribal society where power traditionally has been
mediated through qawm – overlapping local patronage networks – and
where attempts to carve out a modern state, first tried by the
autocratic Mohammad Daoud Khan in the 1970s, until the present day
have been a motor for conflict. "It is the biggest problem," he said.
"It is like trying to fit a saddle on a cow."
By the time Colonel Tsaglov put pen to paper, Mikhail Gorbachev,
shocked by the failure of the intervention and increasing public anger
at Russian losses, had already decided to pull out. This week, by
contrast, Obama is expected to announce his decision to escalate the
war and send yet more soldiers. In the end it was the endless death
toll – as much as the crippling cost – that persuaded Gorbachev to
call for withdrawal.
Anatoly Chernaev, a close colleague of Gorbachev, recorded the moment
in his diary on 17 October 1985 after attending the Politburo meeting.
"[Gorbachev] read several heart-rending letters… There is a good deal
of everything [in the letters]: international duty?! For what? Do the
Afghans themselves want us to fulfil this duty? And is this duty worth
the lives of our boys, who do not understand what they are fighting
for? Besides the letters filled with tears, mothers' grief over the
dead and the crippled, heart-rending descriptions of funerals, there
are letters of accusation: the Politburo made a mistake and it should
be rectified, the sooner the better."
Thirty years after Russian troops entered Afghanistan to remove a
government, Nato, like the Soviets, is confronted by ethnic divisions,
corruption and weak government; by a population of which large parts
are hostile to foreign intervention and hostile to attempts to
modernise and centralise the state.
With troop commitments creeping towards the Soviet total, the
unanswered question is whether this war can end in a different manner
to the predecessor it mirrors in such startling fashion.
chhotemianinshallah
Pakistan Moves Farther Into Taliban Land
By JANE PERLEZ
Published: October 18, 2009
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The Pakistani military moved deeper into South
Waziristan on Sunday, hitting Taliban targets with F-16 fighter jets,
as troops supported by helicopter gunships climbed higher into the
mountainous terrain, according to military personnel and a spokesman
for the militants.
Pakistani Air Force fighter jets struck the militant-held towns of
Makeen, Ladha and Kotkai in the heart of Taliban territory, and ground
forces have occupied territory on the edge of the militant enclave,
Pakistani military personnel said.
Sounding a confident tone on the second day of the campaign against
the forces of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, a senior military official
said “the level of resistance from the militants is not very high.”
Even so, said the official, who declined to be identified, the area
was heavily mined and Pakistani forces encountered many homemade
bombs.
But the Taliban said part of their strategy was to encourage the
military to progress deeper into the militant enclave in the center of
South Waziristan, and then tie the soldiers down with hit-and-run
tactics that would keep the soldiers in a protracted campaign in the
inhospitable terrain over the winter.
The government forces would be hit hard once they penetrated farther
into the mountains, the favorite fighting areas for the militants, a
Taliban organizer who is not involved in the current fighting said by
telephone on Sunday from Wana, the capital of South Waziristan.
As Pakistan’s boldest and most difficult offensive against the Taliban
unfolded, Gen. David H. Petraeus, who oversees the wars in Afghanistan
and Iraq as head of the United States Central Command, arrived in
Pakistan’s capital, Islamabad, on Sunday to consult with the nation’s
civilian and military leaders.
The United States military has been urging the Pakistanis to forge
ahead with the offensive, saying that the Pakistani Army must stand up
to the Qaeda-fortified Taliban and its network of militant groups bent
on trying to take down the nuclear-armed nation.
The Pakistani Army began the long-awaited operation into the Taliban
heartland inside South Waziristan in the early hours Saturday, after
six major attacks by the Taliban on Pakistani security installations
in the previous 12 days, including the army headquarters, forced its
hand.
The army said in a statement on Sunday that 60 militants had been
killed, and 5 Pakistani soldiers had died in the fighting so far.
The chief Taliban spokesman, Azam Tariq, said in a telephone call to
reporters in Peshawar that the “army has launched attacks from all
sides.” He said the militants had killed 60 soldiers.
The information on casualties provided by each side was impossible to
confirm. Communication links with the battle area have been cut.
No reporters are traveling with the army or the militants in the
remote and rugged territory. Military experts caution that both sides
tend to inflate the number of casualties they inflict on the enemy.
The Americans have quietly provided the Pakistani Air Force with new
imaging systems for the F-16s that the Pakistani military says will be
crucial in South Waziristan, according to an American official who
declined to be identified because he was not authorized to speak on
the matter.
The Pakistani Air Force had identified more than 100 targets for
airstrikes in South Waziristan, many of which were hit in preliminary
operations in the past week, the American official said.
The Pakistanis were loath to publicize the upgraded American imaging
systems for the F-16s, which were also acquired from the United
States, because of the deep well of anti-American sentiment in
Pakistan, the American official said.
But whether the newly equipped F-16s could make a significant
difference, particularly as winter weather arrives by mid-November,
was not clear, he said.
On the militant side, the Taliban spokesman said their forces had hit
an army convoy at Zhawar as it traveled Sunday through a densely
forested area about 5,000 feet above sea level, north of the
government-held town of Shakhai toward Kaniguram.
The Taliban had been calling in forces from all over the tribal areas,
particularly from Orakzai and Kurram tribal agencies, since June, the
Taliban organizer said.
The new leader of the Pakistani Taliban, Hakimullah Mehsud, has used
Orakzai, an area north of South Waziristan, as his base until now. He
had been able to call on fighters loyal to him there to come to South
Waziristan as reinforcements, the organizer said.
These fighters were joined by others from southern Punjab Province,
where militant groups that have been nurtured by the government are
based, he said. The most hardened group of fighters on the Taliban
side, and the most feared by the Pakistani military, are the roughly
1,500 Uzbeks centered around the village of Kaniguram.
The Taliban loyal to the Mehsud tribe, whose enclave inside South
Waziristan is the army’s chief target, had been asked not to go to
Afghanistan this summer to fight American and NATO troops, but rather
to stay home and prepare the ground for the anticipated attack, the
organizer said.
The government first announced its intention to attack South
Waziristan in June, giving the Taliban plenty of lead time to lay
mines and prepare other defenses and communications, he said.
Civilians among the 500,000 people who live in South Waziristan have
also had plenty of time to flee, and many stayed in the North-West
Frontier Province after their annual summer migration, provincial
government officials said.
But on Saturday and Sunday, families were still loading vans and
trucks with bedding, suitcases and water tanks, and heading for safety
to Bannu and Dera Ismail Khan in North-West Frontier Province.
The United Nations has registered about 80,500 displaced people in the
last month from South Waziristan, said Billi Bierning, a spokeswoman
for the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian
Affairs. About 1,000 people left in the last two days, she said.
Those displaced were staying with relatives or finding their own
accommodation, she said.
Pir Zubair Shah and Ismail Khan contributed reporting from Peshawar,
Pakistan.
bademiyansubhanallah
Past week proves deadly for Taliban as over 70 militants killed in
Afghanistan
www.chinaview.cn 2009-10-18 22:42:44
By Abdul Haleem
KABUL, Oct. 18 (Xinhua) -- The past week has proved deadly for
Taliban militants in Afghanistan as over 70 of the outfit's fighters
including some commanders have been killed.
In the latest wave of conflicts with security forces, six Taliban
fighters were killed as they came in contact with troops in Badghis
province of northern Afghanistan Sunday afternoon.
"Taliban rebels attacked a convoy of NATO-led forces on the road
leading to provincial capital Qalai Now today at 03:00 p.m. local time
(1030 GMT) and troops returned fire killing six militants including
their commander Mullah Abdul Hakim," military spokesman in the region
Abdul Basir Ghori told Xinhua.
On Saturday eight militants were killed during a joint operation
of Afghan and NATO troops in the southern Uruzgan province while three
others had been arrested on the same day in the northern Baghlan
province.
On Friday, three more suspected insurgents were arrested and their
leader Sibghatullah was killed in a gun battle with police, according
to an Interior Ministry press release issued on Sunday
Also on Friday, according to Hamidullah Zhawak, the spokesman of
the provincial administration in the eastern Paktika province, more
than 20 suspected Taliban insurgents were killed as NATO aircraft
pounded their hideouts in Urgon district.
Seven more insurgents, according to Zhawak, had been arrested on
the same day.
Twenty more Taliban insurgents, according to Abdul Rahman Sarjang,
the police chief of Zabul province, were killed on Wednesday in the
troubled Nawbahar and Arghandab districts during a joint operation of
Afghan and NATO troops there.
Furthermore, over two dozen suspected insurgents lost their lives
during an operation in Shurabak district of Kandahar province last
Sunday.
All the sufferings apparently have taken place in the wake of the
killing of Taliban key commander in west Afghanistan Ghulam Yahya
Akbari on October 9.
Following Yahya's elimination his son-in-law Bashir Qinaat was
arrested and dozens of his supporters have laid down their arms and
resumed their normal life.
More than 60 Taliban fighters, according to officials, have laid
down their arms and joined the government in Gazara and Pashtun
Zarghon districts of Herat province following the killing of Yahya
Akbari.
Eight U.S soldiers have also been killed over the past week while
nearly two dozen Afghan security forces have also been killed and
injured in the same period.
Both Taliban militants and the NATO-backed Afghan forces are
determined to consolidate their grip and the Afghan national army and
police have been pushing ahead to ensure durable security in the post-
Taliban country.
Editor: Yan
bademiyansubhanallah
Taliban vow to defeat army in Pakistan offensive
By ISHTIAQ MAHSUD,
Associated Press Sun Oct 18, 12:25 pm ET
DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan – Pakistani troops and the Taliban fought
fierce battles Sunday in a militant sanctuary near the Afghan border,
with both sides claiming early victories in an army campaign that
could shape the future of the country's battle against extremism.
A Taliban spokesman vowed the Islamist militants would fight to "our
last drop of blood" to defend their stronghold of South Waziristan,
predicting the army would fail in its latest attempt to gain control
over it.
The army said 60 militants and six soldiers had been killed since the
offensive began Saturday in the mountainous, remote region that the
army has tried and failed to wrest from near-total insurgent control
three times since 2004.
The Taliban claimed to have inflicted "heavy casualties" and pushed
advancing soldiers back into their bases. It was not possible to
independently verify the claims because the army is blocking access to
the battlefield and surrounding towns.
Victory for the government in South Waziristan's tribal badlands would
eliminate a safe haven for the Taliban militants blamed for surging
terrorist attacks and the al-Qaida operatives they shelter there. It
would also send a signal to other insurgent groups in the nuclear-
armed country of the military's will and ability to fight them.
Defeat would give the militants a propaganda victory, add to pressures
on the country's shaky civilian government and alarm Pakistan's
Western allies, which want to see it successfully crack down on
militancy that is both fueling and feeding off the insurgency in
neighboring Afghanistan.
"We know how to fight this war and defeat the enemy with the minimum
loss of our men," Taliban spokesman Azam Tariq told The Associated
Press from an undisclosed location. "This is a war imposed on us, and
we will defend our land until our last man and our last drop of blood.
This is a war bound to end in the defeat of the Pakistan army."
Despite his comments, the some 10,000 Pakistani militants and about
1,500 foreign fighters are seen as unlikely to stand and fight.
Instead, they will likely do as they have done in other parts of the
northwest: Avoid conventional battles and launch guerrilla attacks on
stationary troops or long supply lines.
Accounts from residents and those fleeing Sunday suggested that the
some 30,000 government troops pushing into the region from three
directions were facing much tougher resistance than they saw in the
Swat Valley, another northwestern region where the army defeated the
insurgents earlier this year.
"Militants are offering very tough resistance to any movement of
troops," Ehsan Mahsud, a resident of Makeen, a town in the region,
told The AP in the town of Mir Ali, close to the battle zone. He and a
friend arrived there early Sunday after traveling through the night.
Mahsud said the army appeared to be mostly relying on airstrikes and
artillery against militants occupying high ground. He said the
insurgents were firing heavy machine guns at helicopter gunships,
forcing the air force to use higher-flying jets.
The militants control roughly 1,275 square miles (3,310 square
kilometers) of territory, or about half of South Waziristan, in areas
loyal to former militant chief Baitullah Mehsud, who was killed in a
U.S. missile strike in August. His clansman Hakimullah Mehsud now
leads the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, or Pakistani Taliban Movement, an
umbrella organization of several Islamist militant factions seeking to
overthrow the secular government.
Officials have said they envisage the operation will last two months,
when winter weather will make fighting difficult.
A brief army statement said 60 militants had been killed, along with
six soldiers, since Saturday. It said the military had secured high
ground close to Razmak, where the army has had a base for several
years, and destroyed six militant anti-aircraft gun positions among
other gains.
A resident in Wana — the main town in South Waziristan and in the
heart of Taliban-held territory — said the insurgents had left the
town and were stationed on the borders of the region, determined to
block any army advance.
"All the Taliban who used to be around here have gone to take their
position to protect the Mehsud boundary," Azamatullah Wazir said by
telephone Sunday. "The army will face difficulty to get in there."
As many as 150,000 civilians — possibly more — have left in recent
months after the army made clear it was planning an assault, but as
many as 350,000 could still be in the region. The United Nations has
been stockpiling relief supplies in a town near the battle zone.
Senior government official Tariq Hayat Khan said the government was
not expecting to establish camps for those fleeing the fighting
because most would be living in second homes, with relatives or in
rented accommodation in towns outside the tribal region.
Over the last three months, the Pakistani air force has been bombing
targets in South Waziristan, while the army has said it has sealed off
many Taliban supply and escape routes. The military has been trying to
secure the support of local tribal armies in the fight.
Once it became clear two weeks ago that a military offensive was
imminent, the Taliban unleashed a torrent of attacks around the
country, including a 22-hour siege of army headquarters last weekend.
Taliban spokesman Tariq said the insurgents were also behind the two
latest attacks: three commando-style raids on law enforcement agencies
in the eastern city of Lahore on Thursday that killed around 30
people, as well as the deadly bombing of a police station in the
northwestern city of Peshawar a day later.
Associated Press Writers Rasool Dawar from Mir Ali, Zarar Khan in
Islamabad and Hussain Afzal in Parachinar contributed to this report.
bademiyansubhanallah
Taliban vow to defeat army in Pakistan offensive
By ISHTIAQ MAHSUD (AP) – 2 hours ago
DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan — Pakistani troops and the Taliban fought
fierce battles in a militant sanctuary near the Afghan border, with
both sides claiming early victories in an army campaign that could
shape the future of the country's battle against extremism.
The offensive in South Waziristan was expected to be a key topic of
discussion Monday as U.S. Sen. John Kerry and U.S. Central Command
chief David Petraeus visited Pakistan for talks with military and
political leaders. American officials have pushed Pakistan to crack
down on extremists who use its soil as a base for planning attacks on
Western troops in Afghanistan.
A Taliban spokesman vowed the Islamist militants would fight to "our
last drop of blood" to defend their stronghold in South Waziristan,
predicting the army would fail in its latest attempt to gain control
over the tribal region.
The army said Sunday that 60 militants and six soldiers had been
killed since the offensive began Saturday in the mountainous, remote
region that the army has tried and failed to wrest from near-total
insurgent control three times since 2004.
The Taliban claimed to have inflicted "heavy casualties" and pushed
advancing soldiers back into their bases. It was not possible to
independently verify the claims because the army is blocking access to
the battlefield and surrounding towns.
Victory for the government in South Waziristan's tribal badlands would
eliminate a safe haven for the Taliban militants blamed for surging
terrorist attacks and the al-Qaida operatives they shelter there. It
would also send a signal to other insurgent groups in the nuclear-
armed country of the military's will and ability to fight them.
Defeat would give the militants a propaganda victory, add to pressures
on the country's shaky civilian government and alarm Pakistan's
Western allies.
"We know how to fight this war and defeat the enemy with the minimum
loss of our men," Taliban spokesman Azam Tariq told The Associated
Press from an undisclosed location. "This is a war imposed on us, and
we will defend our land until our last man and our last drop of blood.
This is a war bound to end in the defeat of the Pakistan army."
Despite his comments, the some 10,000 Pakistani militants and about
1,500 foreign fighters are seen as unlikely to stand and fight.
Instead, they will likely do as they have done in other parts of the
northwest: Avoid conventional battles and launch guerrilla attacks on
stationary troops or long supply lines.
Accounts from residents and those fleeing Sunday suggested that the
some 30,000 government troops pushing into the region from three
directions were facing much tougher resistance than they saw in the
Swat Valley, another northwestern region where the army defeated the
insurgents earlier this year.
"Militants are offering very tough resistance to any movement of
troops," Ehsan Mahsud, a resident of Makeen, a town in the region,
told the AP in the town of Mir Ali, close to the battle zone. He and a
friend arrived there early Sunday after traveling through the night.
Mahsud said the army appeared to be mostly relying on airstrikes and
artillery against militants occupying high ground. He said the
insurgents were firing heavy machine guns at helicopter gunships,
forcing the air force to use higher-flying jets.
The militants control roughly 1,275 square miles (3,310 square
kilometers) of territory, or about half of South Waziristan, in areas
loyal to former militant chief Baitullah Mehsud, who was killed in a
U.S. missile strike in August. His clansman Hakimullah Mehsud now
leads the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, or Pakistani Taliban Movement, an
umbrella organization of several Islamist militant factions seeking to
overthrow the secular government.
Officials have said they envisage the operation will last two months,
when winter weather will make fighting difficult.
A resident in Wana — the main town in South Waziristan and in the
heart of Taliban-held territory — said the insurgents had left the
town and were stationed on the borders of the region, determined to
block any army advance.
"All the Taliban who used to be around here have gone to take their
position to protect the Mehsud boundary," Azamatullah Wazir said by
telephone Sunday. "The army will face difficulty to get in there."
As many as 150,000 civilians — possibly more — have left in recent
months after the army made clear it was planning an assault, but as
many as 350,000 could still be in the region. The United Nations has
been stockpiling relief supplies in a town near the battle zone.
Once it became clear two weeks ago that a military offensive was
imminent, the Taliban unleashed a torrent of attacks around the
country, including a 22-hour siege of army headquarters last weekend.
Taliban spokesman Tariq said the insurgents were also behind the two
latest attacks: three commando-style raids on law enforcement agencies
in the eastern city of Lahore on Thursday that killed about 30 people,
as well as the deadly bombing of a police station in the northwestern
city of Peshawar a day later.
Associated Press Writers Rasool Dawar from Mir Ali, Zarar Khan in
Islamabad and Hussain Afzal in Parachinar contributed to this report.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
...and I am Sid Harth
bademiyansubhanallah
October 19, 2009 , 12:31 am
David Rohde Q & A: Held by the Taliban
By David Rohde
This week, David Rohde, a New York Times reporter, is answering
readers’ questions on his seven months as a captive of the Taliban in
Pakistan.
Tomas Munita for The New York Times
David Rohde of The New York Times in southern Afghanistan in 2007.
Q.How much did your foolish idea cost the U.S. Tax payers, and
military in searching for you? Did that ever cross your mind while
trying to get your story? You should be billed for the entire
government effort in the search for you. You are irresponsible and a
fake .
- BTMAC6, AFGHANISTAN
How much did your foolish idea cost the U.S. Tax payers, and military
in searching for you? Did that ever cross your mind while trying to
get your story? You should be billed for the entire government effort
in the search for you. You are irresponsible and a fake
- Walter A., Minnesota
I am glad that Mr. Rohde survived and is now safe. But the part of his
story that we have read so far shows an amazing degree of naivete
regarding the true nature and thinking of the Taliban (whether Afghani
or Pakistani), al Qaida, and the other religiously fanatical extremist
groups in that part of the world.
- Ray, New York, NY
I agree with many of the previous posts. Mr. Rohde, while lucky to be
alive today, was highly irresponsible. I am concerned that the New
York Times is now attempting to publicize his folly. If you read any
of his accounts of his previous kidnapping, you get a sense that this
guy has no understandings of his responsibility as a journalist and
visitor in foreign lands. I worked in Iraq as a civilian contractor
for two years, and I now work in Pakistan. Westerners like me do not
have free reign to go “wherever the story is.” This is both careless
and sometimes life-threatening. I agree that Mr. Rohde should pay back
all of the funds expended to secure his release. The definition of a
fool, as so many know, is to do something more than once and expect a
different result. Has it ever crossed Mr. Rohde’s mind why he has been
kidnapped more than once while many of his other well-accomplished
journalist peers have not? Shame on the New York Times.
- madrona, washington
NYT, will you pay the full cost? Taxpayers should not be burdened by
this nonsense.
- norcalguy101, Arcata, CA
Let’s see….here’s the first bombshell: “I did not fully understand how
extreme many of the Taliban had become.” “…had become…”??? You mean
they weren’t extreme before repressing the eduction of women in
Afghanistan? Or harboring a terrorist group, al Qaida that led to the
destruction of the WTC and thousands of innocent souls snuffed out in
seconds? “But I also saw how some of the consequences of Washington’s
antiterrorism policies had galvanized the Taliban.” Yep. I’m done.
- GeoffP, Los Angeles
“Living side by side with the Haqqanis’ followers, I learned that the
goal of the hard-line Taliban was far more ambitious. Contact with
foreign militants in the tribal areas appeared to have deeply affected
many young Taliban fighters. They wanted to create a fundamentalist
Islamic emirate with Al Qaeda that spanned the Muslim world.” And
beyond. Are you awake now, Mr. Rohde? I suspect your editors aren’t
being completely frank with you, if this is what they let you go there
believing. When conservative islam tells the world that they want the
entire planet under the domination of their religion, that’s precisely
what they do want.
- GeoffP
A.Many readers criticized my statement that I was surprised by how
extreme many Tailban had become since 2001 and called me naïve.
The Taliban wanting to brutally impose hardline Islamic law in
Afghanistan was not new to me. What surprised me was that they wished
to join Al Qaeda in imposing it across the Islamic world.
This is one of the central questions White House officials face as
they try to decide whether to increase American troops levels in
Afghanistan. Some experts on the region have argued that the Taliban
have not grown close to Al Qaeda and the conflict with them can be
settled through negotiations. Those Taliban may exist, but the faction
that held me showed little interest in compromising. Given the current
debate in the United States on Afghanistan, I felt it was important to
publicly describe what I found.
Others readers said I was wrong and selfish to pursue the interview.
They said the effort to help win my release wasted time and
resources.
I pursued the interview because of the growing popular support I found
in southern Afghanistan for the Taliban. To be fair and rigorous, I
also felt that I needed need to get their side of the story. Many
other journalists had conducted interviews with Taliban fighters. Two
other foreign journalists had interviewed he Taliban commander I went
to meet. I was told he was a member of a Taliban faction based in the
Pakistani city of Quetta that is believed to include moderates.
Spokesmen for that faction of the Taliban have said they oppose the
kidnapping of journalists. I did not know the commander I went to
interview had ties with hardline Taliban based in Pakistan’s tribal
areas. If I had known, I never would have pursued the interview.
I will talk more about my decision to pursue the interview – and my
regrets — in the story’s epilogue.
Q.It is a gift to Americans that David Rohde escaped from his captors
and lived to tell this story. We cannot get a sense of the situation
there from watching television news and even in the newspapers it is
rare that a story comes along which gives you this type of real and
raw look into what is going on. After reading this first installment,
I am touched by the honesty of David’s account. Unfortunately, it was
in a fearful and imprisoned state, but he got to experience the inner
world of these Taliban operatives. That could not have happened from a
one hour interview.
As he mentions in the article, what we call the ‘Taliban’ is a loosely
connected network of commanders. So what holds these groups together?
I look forward to reading the next installment to find out more.
Thanks David for your high impact account.
- Kate S, Hanoi, Vietnam
A.The Taliban appear to be held together by a broad desire to drive
foreign forces out of Afghanistan, as has occurred frequently in
Afghan history. Beyond that, thought, they seem to be driven by a
disparate array of local, tribal and personal interests.
Q.You paint a harsh, sheer, even cruel picture of the Taliban. Were
there ever any light moments you had with your captors, a sort of
humane and gentle connection, suggesting that they can be win over if
engaged genuinely and properly? Also, did you ever sense an aspect
where you could agree with your captors, as in societal reform or a
revivalism of Islamic art or the like?
- Tomas Busque, Philippines
A.My goal was not to paint a one-dimensional portrait of the Taliban
and I hope I did not. The Taliban are a large, disparate and
extraordinarily complex movement. Some experts argue that referring to
the various armed groups fighting Afghan, American and NATO forces as
a single movement is inaccurate. They say they are a collection of
vastly different factions and broadly labeling them all the “Taliban”
is inaccurate. In terms of my experience in captivity, my captors
showed various facets. They will emerge in future stories.
Q.Incredible piece of journalism. This may be insensitive but Rohde
went in looking to understand the Taliban, and it looks like he got a
real taste. I think this is an extremely important story to hear, and
I will be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting.
One question- how are the Taliban talking on cell phones? I don’t get
reception in many urban parts of the US- but in North Waziristan? Are
they hooking the phones up to a transmitter?
- wjjrip, Boston, MA
A.The Taliban spoke on cell phones in Afghanistan, which has a fairly
comprehensive nationwide cellular phone system. There are areas
without service, but most cities and large towns have strong
reception. The system is one of the major achievements of the American-
led reconstruction effort since 2001.
Q.What do you think Mr Rohde is Pakistan’s aim in launching an
offensive in South Waziristan when the Taliban actually are entrenched
as per your account in North Waziristan? Is it the old game of
distinguishing the Afghan Taliban who attack Americans from the
Pakistani Taliban who are attacking the Pakistani military?
- vikas jogi, Austin, TX
A.I will address the relationship between the Pakistani military and
the Haqqanis later in the series.
Q.Two simple questions if I may Mr. Rohde? Does the taliban in either
Afghanistan or Pakistan essentially view our invasion of their
countries as infidel Christian soldiers and mercenaries killing their
fellow Muslim citizens? If indeed this is how we are viewed by these
countries, what are the ramifications either short or long term for
any Muslims of either country that assist us in our efforts there?
Thanks,
- Jon, San Diego
A.I did find that many Taliban viewed the conflict as a religious war.
They vehemently believed that the United States was bent on forcing
converting Muslims in Pakistan and Afghanistan to Christianity. In
eight years of reporting in the region, I have met an extremely small
number of Christian missionaries. I have never found any evidence of
an organized effort by the United States government to force Muslims
to convert to Christianity.
The ramifications for Muslims who assist the United States in
Afghanistan and Pakistan are extremely severe. My captors seemed to
despise Afghans and Pakistanis who assisted Americans more than they
hated Americans themselves. I mention in the series that Afghan and
Pakistani moderates, as well American and NATO forces, have been
fighting the Taliban since 2001. In those eight years, far more Afghan
and Pakistani policemen and soldiers have died fighting the Taliban
than American and NATO soldiers. Without the support of large numbers
of moderate Afghans and Pakistanis, American and NATO forces would be
unable to function in the region.
bademiyansubhanallah
U.S. sets its sights on Taliban's 'little T'
Experts question plan to find, sway group's less extreme members
By Karen DeYoung
Monday, October 19, 2009
Weapons are lined up after a group of Taliban fighters surrendered to
the government of Herat province in Afghanistan last week. (Majid/
getty Images)
"Not every Taliban is an extremist ally," Secretary of State Hillary
Rodham Clinton said last week. One of the primary tasks of President
Obama's Afghanistan strategy review, she said, is "trying to sort out
who is the real enemy."
Trying to persuade those insurgents deemed less extreme to lay down
their arms or switch sides will be a major component of the Obama
administration's new approach, regardless of whether the president
approves the massive troop deployments requested by his military
commander, according to administration officials.
But sorting the "reconcilables" -- what the U.S. military calls the
"little T" -- from the "big T" of hard-core Taliban members is no
small task. Even if the Americans and Europeans are able to tell them
apart, neither they nor Afghan officials have a comprehensive plan to
persuade them to stop fighting.
And many analysts, particularly in the CIA, do not believe that a
substantial "little T" exists among what the agency estimates is a
total of about 25,000 fighters in the Afghan Taliban and related
insurgent groups. "Small pockets of Taliban members may be convinced
under certain conditions to enter into such a process," a U.S.
counterterrorism official said, but "it's an uphill battle for most."
"I'm not saying you can't buy off a few guys or get a faction to
turn," he added, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was
not authorized to speak on the record. "But as a general matter, our
view is that it would be a very difficult thing to accomplish." The
prospects for reconciliation, he said, are "dim and grim."
A better paycheck
Others within the administration and the military are convinced that
many fighters, even if culturally and religiously attuned to the
Taliban, are doing a job that they might abandon for more money. "Our
analysis," and that of the Afghan government, Clinton said in an
interview with ABC's "Nightline," is that "there are people, quote
'Taliban,' who are hiding because they get paid to fight. They have no
other way of making a living . . . [and] get paid more to be in the
Taliban than they get paid to be, like, say, a local police officer."
As it did in Iraq, where Sunni insurgents were given $300 a month to
join U.S.-backed neighborhood security forces, the military is
developing a program to put lapsed Afghan insurgents on the payroll,
albeit at a cheaper rate than the Iraqis. Although potential recruits
are often referred to in policy debates as "$10-a-day Taliban," the
stipend will probably be slightly better than the $120 monthly police
salary.
"Economic opportunity, especially job creation, is a critical part of
reintegrating the foot-soldier into normal life," Gen. Stanley A.
McChrystal, the U.S. commander in Afghanistan, wrote in an assessment
of the deteriorating war delivered to Obama last month.
McChrystal drew a distinction between "reconciliation" -- which he
defined as "high-level political settlements" negotiated by the Afghan
government -- and "reintegration," offered by the international
military coalition.
"As coalition operations proceed," he wrote, "insurgents will have
three choices: fight, flee or reintegrate. ISAF [the International
Security Assistance Force] must identify opportunities to reintegrate
former mid-to-low level insurgent fighters into normal society by
offering them a way out" with "reasonable incentives . . . possibly
including the provision of employment and protection."
The authority to give insurgents the option of being "killed, captured
or reintegrated" would be decentralized to ISAF field commanders, in
coordination with the Afghan government.
A number of experts said McChrystal has too few troops to credibly
promise any of those choices. Obama, they argued, cannot achieve
reconciliation or reintegration without committing to a larger U.S.
force.
"The simplest way to put it is that whether they're getting paid or
they're deeply ideologically committed, they all want to be on the
winning side," said former CIA clandestine officer Henry A. Crumpton,
who led the agency's Afghanistan campaign that overthrew the Taliban
in 2001. Whatever their motivation, he said, most insurgents are
"thinking about who's going to have the momentum and who's going to
have the stamina."
"That would argue for putting in more troops, so we can regain the
momentum," Crumpton said. "It's not as simple as paying people off.
There's a lot of pride and prestige and honor at play . . . and you
have to factor in tribal loyalties."
'A way of life'
Reconciliation does require "distinguishing the 'good' Taliban from
the 'bad,' " Afghanistan expert Michael Semple wrote in Foreign
Affairs magazine this summer. But the insurgent movement "contains
legions of men who fight for reasons that have nothing to do with
Islamic zealotry. For many, insurgency is a way of life. . . . And
even if many fighters are fundamentally nonideological, membership in
an insurgent network -- in which elders and peers tell them that
opposing foreign forces is virtuous -- offers a kind of
respectability."
Crumpton and Semple noted that scores of Taliban leaders -- some now
in the Afghan government -- defected between 2002 and 2004, when the
United States had military momentum and Taliban forces were on the
run.
But experts, some of whom have briefed Obama or his senior advisers,
differ on how to approach the ranks of insurgent leaders from just
below the top political level to the local commanders who control
little more than their own valley or village.
One senior U.S. military official, among the relative few to question
McChrystal's call for more troops to be deployed to Afghan population
centers, said no Afghan-wide reintegration plan was likely to succeed.
Rather than beginning with a dubious threat of overwhelming force, he
advised, reconciliation should start from the bottom up, with groups
of trained military and intelligence specialists who understand the
country's cultural and ethnic disparities spreading out and engaging
in the painstaking work of making local deals.
Others suggest a top-down strategy in which respected Afghans within
or outside the government negotiate with more senior insurgent
leaders, possibly at their headquarters in Pakistan. "Simply putting
out a few incentives for low-level people simply doesn't deliver,"
said another Afghan expert who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
"You have to have commanders cut deals and bring in whole networks."
Still others believe that the United States and its allies have
deceived themselves into thinking the Taliban and its allies -- the
Haqqani and Hezb-e Islami groups -- can be broken into pieces by
either carrots or sticks. "It's a nationally organized movement," said
Gilles Dorronsoro of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
"The Taliban are not this kind of loosely organized group, doing
whatever they want at the local level. It's wishful thinking. Not
true. Dead wrong."
"Take the Taliban seriously," Dorronsoro advised. "Stop thinking that
they are this kind of losers. These guys are really, really
good. . . . They know why they are fighting."
Although the Afghan government has its own reconciliation program, it
is woefully underfunded and has little political heft. President Hamid
Karzai has said that anyone who is willing to stop shooting and
respect the constitution is welcome. So far, he's had virtually no
takers.
bademiyansubhanallah
A Variety of Sources Feed Into Taliban’s War Chest
Robert Nickelsberg/Getty Images, for The New York Times
A United States Army soldier and a Marine searched the home and
compound of an Afghan farmer in Khan Neshin. American officials are
debating whether cracking down on the drug trade will anger farmers
dependent on it for their livelihood.
By ERIC SCHMITT
Published: October 18, 2009
WASHINGTON — The Taliban in Afghanistan are running a sophisticated
financial network to pay for their insurgent operations, raising
hundreds of millions of dollars from the illicit drug trade,
kidnappings, extortion and foreign donations that American officials
say they are struggling to cut off.
Times Topics: Afghanistan | TalibanIn Afghanistan, the Taliban have
imposed an elaborate system to tax the cultivation, processing and
shipment of opium, as well as other crops like wheat grown in the
territory they control, American and Afghan officials say. In the
Middle East, Taliban leaders have sent fund-raisers to Arab countries
to keep the insurgency’s coffers brimming with cash.
Estimates of the Taliban’s annual revenue vary widely. Proceeds from
the illicit drug trade alone range from $70 million to $400 million a
year, according to Pentagon and United Nations officials. By
diversifying their revenue stream beyond opium, the Taliban are
frustrating American and NATO efforts to weaken the insurgency by
cutting off its economic lifelines, the officials say.
Despite efforts by the United States and its allies in the last year
to cripple the Taliban’s financing, using the military and
intelligence, American officials acknowledge they barely made a dent.
“I don’t believe we can significantly alter their effectiveness by
cutting off their money right now,” said Representative Adam Smith, a
Washington State Democrat on the House Intelligence and Armed Services
Committees who traveled to Afghanistan and Pakistan last month. “I’m
not saying we shouldn’t try. It’s just bigger and more complex than we
can effectively stop.”
The Taliban’s ability to raise money complicates the Obama
administration’s decision to deploy more United States troops to
Afghanistan. It is unclear, for example, whether the deployment of
10,000 Marines over the summer to Helmand Province, the heart of the
opium production, will have a sustaining impact on the insurgency’s
cash flow. And American officials are debating whether cracking down
on the drug trade will anger farmers dependent on it for their
livelihood.
But even if the United States and its allies were able to stanch the
money flow, it is not clear how much impact it would have. It does not
cost much to train, equip and pay for the insurgency in impoverished
Afghanistan — fighters typically earn $200 to $500 a month — and to
bribe local Afghan security and government officials.
“Their operations are so inexpensive that they can be continued
indefinitely even with locally generated resources such as small
businesses and donations,” said Kenneth Katzman, a Middle East
specialist at the Congressional Research Service and a former analyst
of the region at the C.I.A.
American officials say that they have been surprised to learn in
recent months that foreign donations, rather than opium, are the
single largest source of cash for the Taliban.
“In the past there was a kind of a feeling that the money all came
from drugs in Afghanistan,” Richard C. Holbrooke, the administration’s
special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, said in June.
“That is simply not true.”
Supporting this view, in his Aug. 30 strategic assessment, Gen.
Stanley A. McChrystal, the top NATO commander in Afghanistan, voiced
skepticism that clamping down on the opium trade would crimp the
Taliban’s overall finances.
“Eliminating insurgent access to narco-profits — even if possible, and
while disruptive — would not destroy their ability to operate so long
as other funding sources remained intact,” General McChrystal said.
The C.I.A. recently estimated in a classified report that Taliban
leaders and their associates had received $106 million in the past
year from donors outside Afghanistan, a figure first reported last
month by The Washington Post. Private citizens from Saudi Arabia,
Pakistan, Iran and some Persian Gulf nations are the largest
individual contributors, an American counterterrorism official said.
Top American intelligence officials and diplomats say there is no
evidence so far that the governments of Saudi Arabia, the United Arab
Emirates or other Persian Gulf states are providing direct aid to the
Afghan insurgency. But American intelligence officials say they
suspect that Pakistani intelligence operatives continue to give some
financial aid to the Afghan Taliban, a practice the Pakistani
government denies.
The United States Treasury Department and the United Nations have for
years maintained financial blacklists of those suspected of being
donors to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. But counterterrorism officials say
donors have become savvier about disguising their contributions to
avoid detection.
“The sanctions have worked to a certain extent but obviously not to
the extent of being able to cut off all funds,” said Richard Barrett,
a former British intelligence officer now monitoring Al Qaeda and the
Taliban for the United Nations.
Still, drugs play an important role. Afghanistan produces more opium
than any other country in the world, and the Taliban are widely
believed to make money at virtually every stage of the trade.
“It extorts funds from those involved in the heroin trade by demanding
‘protection’ payments from poppy farmers, drug lab operators and the
smugglers who transport the chemicals into, and the heroin out of, the
country,” David S. Cohen, an assistant secretary at the Treasury
Department responsible for combating terrorist financing, said in a
speech in Washington last week.
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee, in a report issued in August,
said that Taliban commanders charged poppy farmers a 10 percent tax,
and that Taliban fighters supplemented their pay by working in the
poppy fields during harvest. The biggest source of drug money for the
Taliban is regular payments made by drug traffickers to the Taliban
leadership, based in the Pakistani border city of Quetta, according to
the report.
Counterterrorism experts say the relationship of the insurgents to
drug trafficking is shifting in an ominous direction. A United Nations
report issued in August said that some opium-trafficking guerrillas
had secretly stockpiled more than 10,000 tons of illegal opium — worth
billions of dollars and enough to satisfy at least two years of world
demand. The large stockpiles could bolster the insurgency’s war chest
and further undercut the ability of NATO military operations to curb
the flow of drug money to the Taliban.
A third major source of financing for the Taliban is criminal
activity, including kidnappings and protection payments from
legitimate businesses seeking to operate in Taliban-controlled
territory, American authorities say.
The United States has created two new entities aimed at disrupting the
trafficking networks and illicit financing. One group, the Afghan
Threat Finance Cell, is located at Bagram Air Base, north of Kabul.
The second group, the Illicit Finance Task Force based in Washington,
also aims to identify and disrupt the financial networks supporting
terrorists and narcotics traffickers in the region.
American officials say they are working closely with the Afghan
government to dry up the Taliban financing, but as one senior American
military officer in Afghanistan put it last week, “I won’t overstate
the progress.”
Carlotta Gall contributed reporting from Kabul, Afghanistan.
bademiyansubhanallah
Taliban YouTube Channel: Group Creates YouTube Channel To Spread
Propaganda (VIDEO)
CNN's Fareed Zakaria briefly reported on the Taliban's foray into new
media during his show on Sunday. The group that's fighting to restore
radical Sharia law and to retake Afghanistan recently posted two
videos to it's YouTube account, Istqlalmedia.
According to Zakaria, one of the videos was a "disturbing clip" that
showed "hideous scenes of death and destruction set to music." The
clip has since been disabled and removed from the site.
The remaining video is propaganda set to Pashtun-language music.
Zakaria also pointed to the group's english-language propaganda web
site and noted that it is hosted by servers based in Portland, Oregon.
The Washington Post reported on this phenomenon in April 2009:
Militants' use of U.S. Web hosts has sparked occasional spats between
the United States and its allies, as well as endless debates over
whether it is better to shut down the web sites when they're
discovered or to let them continue to operate. By allowing them to
remain online, intelligence analysts can sometimes discover clues
about the leadership and structure of terrorist groups, some analysts
say.
"Even the Taliban cannot survive without the products of the modern
world," noted Zakaria.
Watch:
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/taliban-on-youtube-group_n_325267.html
bademiyansubhanallah
Report: U.S. diplomats meeting with Taliban’s “moderate” Afghan
alliesposted at 8:15 pm on October 18, 2009 by Allahpundit
They are, after all, our partners in peace.
Mullah Mutawakkil, once a confidant of the one-eyed Taliban leader,
Mullah Mohammed Omar, was held at a US base in Kandahar in 2002 after
he gave himself up to American troops.
Now he is being politely wooed by a stream of senior US officials who
make discreet visits to his villa, which is guarded by armed police,
to hear his thoughts on what the Taliban mood is like and whether any
of its leaders are ready for talks…
Taliban leaders are looking for guarantees of their personal safety
from the US, and a removal of the “bounties” placed on the head of
their top commanders. They also want a programme for the release of
prisoners held at the notorious Bagram US air base in Afghanistan, and
at Guantanamo Bay.
In return, he says, the Taliban would promise not to allow Afghanistan
to be used to plan attacks on America – the original reason for
American invervention, and the overriding aim of US policy in the
region…
As one of the few senior Taliban figures to be reconciled to the new
Afghan way of government, he is in touch by telephone with old
comrades who are still fighting. His contacts with officials from the
US Embassy in Kabul and from the office of US special envoy Richard
Holbrooke have increased in recent weeks.
Another Taliban crony who’s now an Afghan senator claims that only a
minority of the group are true jihadist nutballs and that most are
simply fighting to liberate Afghanistan from occupation. That was true
of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq — if it wasn’t, the Anbar awakening
would have been impossible — but is it really true of the Taliban? You
already know the answer if you read Roggio’s analysis a few weeks ago
when the White House first started whispering that the Taliban’s no
longer an implacable enemy, but here’s a bit more from NYT reporter
David Rohde, who spent seven months as a Taliban hostage. Quote:
Over those months, I came to a simple realization. After seven years
of reporting in the region, I did not fully understand how extreme
many of the Taliban had become. Before the kidnapping, I viewed the
organization as a form of “Al Qaeda lite,” a religiously motivated
movement primarily focused on controlling Afghanistan.
Living side by side with the Haqqanis’ followers, I learned that the
goal of the hard-line Taliban was far more ambitious. Contact with
foreign militants in the tribal areas appeared to have deeply affected
many young Taliban fighters. They wanted to create a fundamentalist
Islamic emirate with Al Qaeda that spanned the Muslim world.
If Mutawakkil’s right that the Taliban’s willing to dump AQ, there’s a
very easy way they can prove it. Exit question: The Afghan senator
claims that a majority of the Quetta shura, the Taliban’s leadership
council, is ready for talks — but not Mullah Omar, which presumably
makes negotiations impossible. In which case, why are we even debating
this?
BlowbackNote from Hot Air management: This section is for comments
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that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any
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privilege.
Well in all honesty the Moderate Taliban is less radical than the
Obama white house.
William Amos on October 18, 2009 at 8:17 PM
In which case, why are we even debating this?
Obama wants to give us “Peace in our time” and already has the nobel
to prove it.
William Amos on October 18, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Will they be staying in the Lincoln Bedroom?
portlandon on October 18, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Bullsh*t.
BottomLine5 on October 18, 2009 at 8:19 PM
This isn’t going to turn out well…for us or any other free nation.
AUINSC on October 18, 2009 at 8:19 PM
That’s a peace prize.
Enoxo on October 18, 2009 at 8:19 PM
What’ll they discuss first? The best way to take down a 100 story
building with minimal cost?
lorien1973 on October 18, 2009 at 8:21 PM
All they understand is strength.
Dr. ZhivBlago on October 18, 2009 at 8:21 PM
UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moderates!!!!!!!!
Purge them!!
canopfor on October 18, 2009 at 8:22 PM
Why doesn’t Obama just give up to the world then he wouldn’t have to
run around the globe doing individual pandering and cowering? This
poor sick Republic is declining at warp speed.
rplat on October 18, 2009 at 8:24 PM
Our president has not done one thing to make me feel like he will
negotiate from a position of strength. I believe he will give away the
farm for nothing in return.
Cindy Munford on October 18, 2009 at 8:24 PM
Might as well rename Kabul to Osama Bin Laden City now, cause that’s
where Barry is going with this.
Terry_Dyne on October 18, 2009 at 8:24 PM
Yet he revokes key Hondurans visas?
Also, Obami is willing to talk to Iran even though it was obvious that
the election was fraudulent, but the US is now sees the moral high
ground with Afghanistan?
Speechless.
Lance Murdock on October 18, 2009 at 8:24 PM
U.S. diplomats meeting with Taliban’s “moderate” Afghan allies
Will they also be meeting with “The Tooth Fairy”, “Big Foot” and the
“Yeti”, because they quite frankly have a better chance of actually
existing?
Tommy_G on October 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM
Will they be staying in the Lincoln Bedroom?
portlandon on October 18, 2009 at 8:19 PM
No but how about a trip on Scare Force One to see an up close view of
the work last done by their compatriots?
Cindy Munford on October 18, 2009 at 8:26 PM
We are fast approaching a stage where the question is no longer “how
long will it take to undo the damage Osama Obama has inflicted on our
nation?”
It is now: “can the United States recover from even one year of the
Traitor-in-Chief’s regime?”
MrScribbler on October 18, 2009 at 8:27 PM
I heard the GOP was originally trying to woo Mullah Mutawakkil to run
in NY-23, but found out he was against gay marriage and abortion.
SirGawain on October 18, 2009 at 8:28 PM
Hmmm… restoring the Clintonian connections that got us into this
trouble in the first place…
Anybody remember the Taliban blowing up Buddhist statues?
I do…
Skywise on October 18, 2009 at 8:29 PM
I heard the GOP was originally trying to woo Mullah Mutawakkil to run
in NY-23, but found out he was against gay marriage and abortion.
SirGawain on October 18, 2009 at 8:28 PM
I heard the DNC was originally trying to woo Keith Olbermann to run in
NY-23, but found out he was straight, white and male.
Skywise on October 18, 2009 at 8:30 PM
Someone please tell me how different our situation is right now from
the Soviets in the 1980’s. While we aren’t doing a big military build
up we certainly seem to be working on going broke as fast as we can.
Our position is weak in so many ways.
Cindy Munford on October 18, 2009 at 8:31 PM
Tommy_G on October 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM
You’re forgetting the Jersey Devil and the Lochness Monster ;)
Seriously though, for the first time in my adult lifetime I am
genuinely afraid for the future and the safety of this great nation.
SG1_Conservative on October 18, 2009 at 8:31 PM
I heard the DNC was originally trying to woo Keith Olbermann to run in
NY-23, but found out he was straight, white and male.
Skywise on October 18, 2009 at 8:30 PM
Really? Who knew?
Cindy Munford on October 18, 2009 at 8:31 PM
Nope, no propaganda gold mine for the Taliban for this…
(is the /sarc tag really needed?)
Seven Percent Solution on October 18, 2009 at 8:32 PM
Wow! Chamberlain was a ballsy ba$tard compared to the W0N huh?
conservnut on October 18, 2009 at 8:32 PM
Meanwhile, Hillary dreams up some more “history”.
corona on October 18, 2009 at 8:36 PM
They will talk to the Taliban but not Fox News. Someone, anyone in the
press, or White House Stenographers Union, ASK THE PRESIDENT THE
QUESTION: WHO IS MORE DANGEROUS TO THE UNITED STATES? The Taliban…… or
Fox News.
JeffinOrlando on October 18, 2009 at 8:36 PM
“Moderate” Taliban is like saying a “non-violent hungry tiger”.
Eventually, Obama’s gonna have to bite the bullet and make the FIRST
hard decision he’s ever made in his political life.
It will be interesting to see what he does. I wouldn’t be surprised if
he pulls American troops out over a short period of time. He wants to
do “war on the cheap”, like any war fought that way is winnable. Of
course, he has no experience in military or diplomatic matters (or
much of anything else), so dithering is to be expected. Maybe Rahm
will make the decision for him. Or that Dunn idiot. Or Keith
Olbermann.
bradley11 on October 18, 2009 at 8:36 PM
but found out he was straight, white and male.
Skywise on October 18, 2009 at 8:30 PM
You lie!
I doubt he’s any of thosee.
lorien1973 on October 18, 2009 at 8:37 PM
Sorry, folks who died on 9/11–the people who aided and abetted your
murderers just outlasted our determination and will to fight. We got
tired, you know, nothing personal. No one seems to mind not
remembering your deaths, anyway–it’s a National Day of service now, or
something like that. Oh well–next time die as part of a more
politically useful cause, and maybe we’ll stick it out a little
longer…
Horatius on October 18, 2009 at 8:37 PM
“In return, he says, the Taliban would promise not to allow
Afghanistan to be used to plan attacks on America – the original
reason for American invervention, and the overriding aim of US policy
in the region…’
Are we this stupid? Has our leadership come to this? The Taliban will
promise not to allow???? Give me a frikken break!
Rovin on October 18, 2009 at 8:39 PM
The new American thinking is that what they deem the “nationalist”
Afghan Taliban may be divided from its more extreme elements – and
also from al-Qaeda, whose cohorts of foreign fighters are interested
almost exclusively in jihad against the West.
Just like the Viet Cong and North Vietnam were completely independent
actors. Heck, they had different PO boxes and everything.
Terry_Dyne on October 18, 2009 at 8:39 PM
WHO IS MORE DANGEROUS TO THE UNITED STATES? The Taliban…… or Fox News.
JeffinOrlando on October 18, 2009 at 8:36 PM
Sad to say but the answer is Fox News.
Afrolib on October 18, 2009 at 8:41 PM
Right Horatius, if you actually want to WHIP these bastards you’re
some kind of extremist…more radioactive than the Taliban…
Chris_Balsz on October 18, 2009 at 8:41 PM
Horatius on October 18, 2009 at 8:37 PM
Well said, I wish we didn’t to constantly remind people of what those
animals did to 3000 over innocent human beings. Peace through strength
is a foreign concept to the One, so this will likely only end badly
for free nations everywhere.
SG1_Conservative on October 18, 2009 at 8:43 PM
In return, he says, the Taliban would promise not to allow Afghanistan
to be used to plan attacks on America – the original reason for
American invervention, and the overriding aim of US policy in the
region…
this has to be some sort of joke, right? please tell me this is all a
dream…
tatersalad on October 18, 2009 at 8:45 PM
We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail.
George W. Bush, Speech after 9/11 attacks
43rd President of US (1946 – )
tatersalad on October 18, 2009 at 8:48 PM
Just a note to ALL HA commenters:
In case you weren’t aware, LGF a–holes Killgore Trout and Simoom
regularly troll the HA comments looking for examples to smear Ed and
Allahpundit (just as they do Rush Limbaugh). Sooooo, if you wanna see
you comment used to smear YOU and HA, you should watch what you say.
Or, end each and every comment with a hearty fvck you LGF.
Andy in Agoura Hills on October 18, 2009 at 8:50 PM
In return, he says, the Taliban would promise not to allow Afghanistan
to be used to plan attacks on America
Ofcourse
The taliban should be relocated to DC
and financially supported by PORK in the defense spending bill !
macncheez on October 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM
At this rate with the Obama administration giving up on a position of
strength and giving everything away am I better off getting the
Rosetta Stone Chinese or Russian language software?
WhoU4 on October 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM
IMHO, it’s pretty clear by now that nothing short of another attack on
a scale equaling or exceeding Pearl Harbor will bring the USA and it’s
citizens to grips with reality.
You cannot negotiate with an enemy such as we currently face.
You cannot beat same by merely occupying dirt, unless you plan to have
a soldier every dozen feet, everywhere, at all times.
You cannot wage a successful military campaign without having the
majority of your civilian population, government and press – at the
very least – NOT attempting to sabotage your efforts.
You cannot win ‘hearts and minds’ until competition for same has been
exterminated, so driven into hiding as to be ineffective, or until
nearly nobody will join/assist out of sheer terror of the fate of
being discovered for doing same.
Dark-Star on October 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM
Andy in Agoura Hills on October 18, 2009 at 8:50 PM
I noticed that. Odd how he never bother with the comments of the
trolls…could “afrolib” and and the rest of that crowd simply be CJ in
drag?
I’m sure LGF’s reader is vastly amused by all the “hate” Chuckie seems
to find at HA.
MrScribbler on October 18, 2009 at 8:55 PM
Sad to say but the answer is Fox News.
Afrolib on October 18, 2009 at 8:41 PM
Amen, brother! Something has got to be done about the reign of
violence and terror that is Megan Kelley.
jimmy2shoes on October 18, 2009 at 8:55 PM
Might as well rename Kabul to Osama Bin Laden City now
I think Fearless Leader is actually hoping for “Obama bin Laden City”.
Oh, and as a post script;
WHO IS MORE DANGEROUS TO THE UNITED STATES? The Taliban…… or Fox
News.
Sad to say but the answer is Fox News.
Afrolib on October 18, 2009 at 8:41 PM
Sad to say (but not impossible to believe) that anyone in the United
States of America could post a statement THAT stupid. But on a
positive note Afrolib, I rejoice for you, in that it appears you
finally love Big Brother. Your real name IS Winston Smith, right?
oldleprechaun on October 18, 2009 at 8:57 PM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gUmnX02CADON2YMhbddge_OZJSAg
Japanese to end refueling mission in January.
journeyintothewhirlwind on October 18, 2009 at 8:58 PM
My captors harbored many delusions about Westerners. But I also saw
how some of the consequences of Washington’s antiterrorism policies
had galvanized the Taliban. Commanders fixated on the deaths of
Afghan, Iraqi and Palestinian civilians in military airstrikes, as
well as the American detention of Muslim prisoners who had been held
for years without being charged. America, Europe and Israel preached
democracy, human rights and impartial justice to the Muslim world,
they said, but failed to follow those principles themselves.
torture works.
sesquipedalian on October 18, 2009 at 8:58 PM
1st: the thought of fancy pants Richard Holbrooke or any of his over-
educated diplomats negotiating with these cannibals is hilarious. i
feel sorry for the Taliban having to sit thru these sessions!
2d: c’mon Bambi. just give radical Islam what it wants & be done with
it. why is he waiting so long?
perhaps we should include these thoughts in tomorrow’s letters to our
Senators.
kelley in virginia on October 18, 2009 at 8:59 PM
sesquip: torture for info. then kill them. i have a friend who just
left for a tour in Afghanistan. after telling him that i would pray
for him, i asked that he leave enemy bodies where he found them, not
bring them home as detainees.
or sesquip: would you prefer what alternative? let the killers go?
kill them outright (most cost effective perhaps)?
kelley in virginia on October 18, 2009 at 9:02 PM
LGF Killgore Trout and Simoom regularly troll the HA comments looking
for examples to smear Ed and Allahpundit (just as they do Rush
Limbaugh). Sooooo, if you wanna see you comment used to smear YOU and
HA
Naturally, all should strive for a certain standard of decorum. Having
said that, the actions of “Mr.” Trout have already discredited what
ever he ever hopes to accomplish, and he, in his previous attempts at
entrapment, cannot now claim some exalted high ground. For those that
like LGF, fine, but having done good service in exposing Dan Rather
does not one a giant of the age make, nor a king maker. I believe I am
aware of the game that is afoot, and am not worried by it, for the
quest to spear the great white whale will only, as for poor Ahab, lead
to an end not good.
Those who believe their ideas can go head-to-head have no need to cart
out what some halfwit says on a discussion board. Those who do not so
believe do.
Horatius on October 18, 2009 at 9:03 PM
In return, he says, the Taliban would promise not to allow Afghanistan
to be used to plan attacks on America – the original reason for
American invervention intervention, and the overriding aim of US
policy in the region…
Not for quite a while.
Whatever the merits, or lack of same, to this it seems rather similar
to Bush in Iraq with the alliances with Sunni tribal leaders, many who
had killed American troops.
Ah, I see that you had mentioned that –
That was true of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq — if it wasn’t, the
Anbar awakening would have been impossible — but is it really true of
the Taliban?
As with the Sunnis in Iraq it will be true as long as it suits them
(elements of the Taliban) for it to be true and not any longer.
MB4 on October 18, 2009 at 9:08 PM
WHO IS MORE DANGEROUS TO THE UNITED STATES? The Taliban…… or Fox News.
JeffinOrlando on October 18, 2009 at 8:36 PM
Sad to say but the answer is Fox News.
Afrolib on October 18, 2009 at 8:41 PM
Oh please, tell us more, racist.
HornetSting on October 18, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Not so wet water.
Hening on October 18, 2009 at 9:09 PM
The moderate Taliban?
PMSL * 10.
Anders on October 18, 2009 at 9:11 PM
the moderate Taliban are kin to the politicians who tell you they
won’t raise taxes. i think they are liars? what say you, oh brilliant
sesquiphillian?
kelley in virginia on October 18, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Or, end each and every comment with a hearty fvck you LGF.
Andy in Agoura Hills on October 18, 2009 at 8:50 PM
Charles Johnson is an emotional six-year-old with extraordinary powers
to control the blog where he rules by simply wishing away people and
things that anger or confound him. Charles has the mind, imagination
and maturity of a typical lunatic. The people at LGF have to look like
lizards all the time, think lizard thoughts all the time, and say
lizard things all the time, because that’s what Charles commands and,
if they disobey, he can wish them into a “cornfield” from whence they
are never to be seen or heard from again. What few adults remain try
nervously to think like lizards and tell Charles that he’s a good boy,
hoping that Charles’s terrible power won’t be turned upon themselves.
Charles Johnson appears to combine the worst traits of Joe McCarthy,
Anthony Fremont (Twilight Zone episode: “It’s a Good Life”) and a
consummate dhimmi. And that is just from what I know about him so far.
MB4 on October 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM
torture for info. then kill them. i have a friend who just left for a
tour in Afghanistan. after telling him that i would pray for him
kelley in virginia on October 18, 2009 at 9:02 PM
you have adopted the language of jihad very well.
what a nut.
sesquipedalian on October 18, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Sad to say but the answer is Fox News.
Afrolib on October 18, 2009 at 8:41 PM
you’ve done dunking for apples at parties way too often
blatantblue on October 18, 2009 at 9:20 PM
done = gone
blatantblue on October 18, 2009 at 9:21 PM
Is the Taliban really any worse than the leadership of any Arab state?
Particularly Saudi Arabia?
Speedwagon82 on October 18, 2009 at 9:23 PM
sesquid: when your brother was in Baghdad, did you sleep at all? i
didn’t. i kept thinking of some Iran-funded Muslim trying to kill him.
i hope all those jihadists die.
if you are a veteran with a differing opinion, my humble apologies &
heartfelt thanks for your service.
kelley in virginia on October 18, 2009 at 9:26 PM
sorry: sesquip: i would rather the jihadists die over therethan here
in Virginia close to me. or would you prefer a less selfish approach?
kelley in virginia on October 18, 2009 at 9:28 PM
WHO IS MORE DANGEROUS TO THE UNITED STATES? The Taliban…… or Fox News.
JeffinOrlando on October 18, 2009 at 8:36 PM
Sad to say but the answer is Fox News.
Afrolib on October 18, 2009 at 8:41 PM
Nice to see that the ACORN Poverty Pimps are represented here….
JeffinOrlando on October 18, 2009 at 9:31 PM
“Hand over bin Laden and his followers and close his camps – these
demands are not open to negotiation”
– George Bush, 2001
“Hey, Taliban let’s negotiate!!!”
– Barack Obama, 2009
PackerBronco on October 18, 2009 at 9:31 PM
The disgrace in chief is going to wipe out all of our gains in the
WOT.
WisCon on October 18, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Dissent is more dangerous to the United States than the Taliban.
– Afrolib on October 18, 2009 at 8:41 PM
PackerBronco on October 18, 2009 at 9:32 PM
This would be in line with the Obama doctrine of retreat and
appeasement. Anohter peace prize being engraved as I type.
Philly on October 18, 2009 at 9:34 PM
another, i meant
Philly on October 18, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Is the Taliban really any worse than the leadership of any Arab state?
Particularly Saudi Arabia?
Speedwagon82 on October 18, 2009 at 9:23 PM
Money and oil buys a lot of dispensation.
MB4 on October 18, 2009 at 9:36 PM
MB4 on October 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM
I was registered over at LGF, a long time ago – probably still am, as
I forgot my password and never bothered to get it sent to me. Probably
a good thing…I would have gotten banned, anyway.
uncivilized on October 18, 2009 at 9:37 PM
The disgrace in chief is going to wipe out all of our gains in the
WOT.
WisCon on October 18, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Hes just helping out his fellow muslim.
Viper1 on October 18, 2009 at 9:43 PM
This is the same contorted act that we see every time we elect this
bunch of clowns to any serious office. The main idea that drives
everything they do is “Freedom doesn’t work”. Every domestic policy
initiative either ignores it or is intended to destroy it, and every
foreign policy decision debases its value.
Right now the Obama administration, like the Clinton administration
before it, is conjuring up “Moderates” to treat with so they can
wiggle their way out of having to defend anyone’s human rights but
their own. Because at bottom, they simply don’t believe in them for
anyone else. Just themselves!
So when someone like Richard Holbrook tells them exactly what they
want so desperately to hear, they just suck it up and get their pens
out for another TV signing event. Peace in our time, indeed!
Lew on October 18, 2009 at 9:44 PM
I was registered over at LGF, a long time ago – probably still am, as
I forgot my password and never bothered to get it sent to me. Probably
a good thing…I would have gotten banned, anyway.
uncivilized on October 18, 2009 at 9:37 PM
I was registered there too, quite some time ago. I think I may have
made one comment. I can’t remember my ID, nor my password now though,
otherwise I would comment about Charles Johnson’s striking resemblance
to Anthony Freemont, not that it would remain for long.
MB4 on October 18, 2009 at 9:46 PM
In case you weren’t aware, LGF a–holes Killgore Trout and Simoom
regularly troll the HA comments looking for examples to smear Ed and
Allahpundit . Sooooo, if you wanna see you comment used to smear YOU
and HA, you should watch what you say.
Andy in Agoura Hills
You could just say what you want and let the flying monkeys of Ponyboy
go hang. Unless you’re afraid of a 50 year old man in spandex
bikeshorts with a girl’s hairstyle.
Terry_Dyne on October 18, 2009 at 9:47 PM
We leave and there’ll be blood running a foot deep all across that
country. The killing fields will fertilize the next opium crop. ‘Nam
all over again. Millions dead to pay for the American liberal’s
conscience. Weird how it won’t affect their conscience at all. Human
rights a-go-go. Jane Fonda for Senator.
I find myself hoping that Washington DC is destroyed.
Griz on October 18, 2009 at 9:53 PM
Well Pinnochio got the Russians to agree to Iranian sanctions for
dropping our missle defenses in Eastern Europe, got the Iranians to
agree to use of its nukes for electricity in exchange for talking with
them and now is going to get the tall-ee-bon to agree to not fight us
anymore if we give them their detainees back and pay them U.S.
taxpayer moneys.
Maybe Pinnochio did deserve that Nobel peace Prize after all!
dhunter on October 18, 2009 at 9:55 PM
First, they have to stop settlement activity in West Waziristan.
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on October 18, 2009 at 10:03 PM
Moderate Taliban is an oxymoron.
Like Virgin Hooker.
Labels.
ted c on October 18, 2009 at 10:06 PM
Oh how the mighty have fallen.. The United States of America is now in
deal mode with Islamist terrorists!? No one can be this naive or
stupid.
Over the past 10 months the USA has gotten every single FP policy call
wrong. This will be beyond the biggest mistake, many Americans will be
killed as a result of this. You cannot appease radical Islam &
terrorists.
saus on October 18, 2009 at 10:11 PM
… ASK THE PRESIDENT THE QUESTION: WHO IS MORE DANGEROUS TO THE UNITED
STATES? The Taliban…… or Fox News.
JeffinOrlando on October 18, 2009 at 8:36 PM
Or, more importantly, who is more dangerous to the White House than
Fox News????
fred5678 on October 18, 2009 at 10:15 PM
Not to worry. If this Afghanistan peace talk thingy doesn’t work out,
WE’LL NEVER HEAR ABOUT IT, ANYWAY.
fred5678 on October 18, 2009 at 10:26 PM
This is quite possibly the most disgusting turn of events one can
imagine. What a bombastic idiot Bozo is. He make Chamberlain look like
a piker.
dogsoldier on October 18, 2009 at 10:35 PM
What do Muslims eat instead of pop corn?
BL@KBIRD on October 18, 2009 at 10:46 PM
Based on the MYT story, you have to ask … are there enough “moderate
Taliban” for Obama to negotiate with ?
In the US, the only “moderate Taliban*” that Obama can negotiate with
seems to boil down to Olympia Snowe .. and she won’t guarantee that
she won’t change sides in the end.
* “Taliban” as defined by the DNC
J_Crater on October 18, 2009 at 10:57 PM
Reminds me of that old song way back when; “I surrender dear”.
Herb on October 18, 2009 at 11:23 PM
You’re forgetting the Jersey Devil and the Lochness Monster ;)
Seriously though, for the first time in my adult lifetime I am
genuinely afraid for the future and the safety of this great nation.
SG1_Conservative on October 18, 2009 at 8:31 PM
My fears began on 11/04/2008.
Barack Hussein Obama.
mmmmm….mmmmm…mmmmm
GrannyDee on October 18, 2009 at 11:26 PM
Are C.A.I.R. or ISNA going to take credit?
Connie on October 18, 2009 at 11:41 PM
In return, he says, the Taliban would promise not to allow Afghanistan
to be used to plan attacks on America
Then he excused himself so he could break out in riotous laughter
without being heard.
Daggett on October 19, 2009 at 12:31 AM
Right, what would Obama do if the Taliban break that promise?
I’ve often said Obama is a symptom of the greater disease. Why is it
nobody in Washington is talking about a 5-year army of a million men?
We did that in 1917 with a third of our population. Afghanistan has
less than 8 million people between 15-64, if you figure a majority are
males thats still less than 4.5 million men capable of bearing arms,
and not all would fight us by a long shot. We can outnumber the
bastards if we’re serious, which we are not–and that’s not because
Obama is President; Obama is President because America isn’t serious
about our defense. Why?
Beyond all the blather and rahrah, THIS is what happens when somebody
bombs New York City: we commit 300,000 troops overseas for 8 years and
then lose.
Chris_Balsz on October 19, 2009 at 12:45 AM
They wanted to create a fundamentalist Islamic emirate with Al Qaeda
that spanned the Muslim world.
Where the he!! have you been genius.
The jihadist have been on a quest for the new Modern Caliphate for
decades.
It is in the writings,Fatwa’s,and speeches.
Not a big confidence builder that this guy had to be held hostage by
the Taliban to know this.
In return, he says, the Taliban would promise not to allow Afghanistan
to be used to plan attacks on America
Wow!!!!!
What an absolute breakthrough.
They said they “promised”.
Is that…you know…a pinky promise or just the regular kind.
dam#, we could have avoided all this war stuff if we just could have
gotten the jihadist to “promise” that they would not carry on their
quest for the New Caliphate.
For crying out loud Obama.
Just announce that all the terrorism is America’s fault and surrender
already,,,it is what you and the democrats want to do anyway.
Baxter Greene on October 19, 2009 at 12:57 AM
Obama … gets a PEACE PRIZE!
Mullah Omar … PEACE PRIZE!
Bin Laden … PEACE PRIZE!
Vlad Putin … gets a PEACE PRIZE!
Mao Zedong … gets a PEACE PRIZE!
Pol Pot … PEACE PRIZE!
Joe Stalin … that’s a PEACE PRIZE!
Mo Hammed … gets a PEACE PRIZE!
Khomeni … gets a PEACE PRIZE!
Kim Jong Il … PEACE PRIZE!
Ne Win … gets a PEACE PRIZE!
Qadaffi — PEACE PRIZE!
Hugo Chavez … gets a PEACE PRIZE!
Al Bashir … PEACE PRIZE!
Genghis Khan … that’s a PEACE PRIZE!
All the moderates … gots a PEACE PRIZE!
Kenosha Kid on October 19, 2009 at 2:00 AM
Well it was a hudna that the taliban was looking for in 2007
but Bush didn’t give it to them
So it is Bush’s fault
http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/2007/09/taliban-looking-for-hudna-truce.html
macncheez on October 19, 2009 at 2:47 AM
Hudna is not a cease-fire or a truce
Its a war tactic to regroup, rearm and recapture, when fighting a non-
muslim enemy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudna
macncheez on October 19, 2009 at 2:53 AM
bademiyansubhanallah
Indian Army to respond to Taliban threat suitably: army chief
www.chinaview.cn 2009-10-19 18:38:35
NEW DELHI, Oct. 19 (Xinhua) -- Just days after the Pakistan
Taliban threatened to carry out attacks in India, the country's all-
powerful army Monday vowed to deal with any such threat suitably.
"We will give an appropriate and strong response to any possible
threat from Taliban," Indian Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor told the
media in the national capital.
The Army chief's statement came in the wake of last week's threat
by the new head of the Pakistan Taliban, Hakimullah Mehsud, that the
militants will bring their war to India "after establishing an Islamic
state in Pakistan."
The warning was issued in a footage aired by British TV channel
Sky News.
In fact, words of worries have recently been making the rounds in
New Delhi that the Islamist terrorists are virtually knocking on
India's door after the Taliban carried out a series of attacks in
Pakistan's cultural city Lahore last Thursday, particularly on an
elite police academy in Bedia, which is 20 km from Wagah on the Indo-
Pakistan international border.
Indian Home Ministry sources have claimed that the threat by the
Pakistan Taliban is being taken seriously.
"But we are always prepared to deal with any such attack. The
Mumbai terror attacks last November was an eye opener for the security
forces. Now, they are always on alert," the Home Ministry sources
said.
Editor: Wang Guanqun
bademiyansubhanallah
Pentagon seeks more funds for Afghan projects
www.chinaview.cn 2009-10-19 05:21:26
WASHINGTON, Oct. 18 (Xinhua) -- The Pentagon is asking the
Congress for more funds on infrastructure projects in Afghanistan to
support U.S. troops and other personnel although the Obama
administration hasn't decided on troop levels there.
As part of the fiscal 2010 defense appropriations bill, the
Pentagon seeks as much as 1.3 billion U.S. dollars on more than 100
projects at 40 sites in Afghanistan, according to a congressional
report disclosed by the Washington Post Sunday.
The U.S. military has already spent some 2.7 billion dollars on
infrastructure projects in that country over the past three years.
At the main U.S. base in Afghanistan, Bagram, the Pentagon is
investing 30 million dollars to build a passenger terminal and
adjacent cargo facility to handle the flow of troops.
The U.S. military is also spending hundreds of millions of dollars
constructing facilities for the Afghan army and police.
The U.S.-led coalition forces recently opened a "forward operating
base "near Farah, in the western Afghanistan bordering Iran. It cost
some 68 million dollars.
The base will house 2,000 Afghan soldiers and an American
mentoring team.
Washington is still debating on the future direction of the Afghan
strategy.
On one hand, top military leaders and Republicans are pressing
U.S. President Barack Obama to act quickly to increase the
present68,000-troop level by at least 40,000.
Meanwhile, senior White House advisors are reportedly pushing back
the request for sending large number of additional troops, saying that
the United States should instead focus on faster military training of
Afghan forces, assassinations of al-Qaida leaders and support for the
government of neighboring Pakistan to fight against the Taliban.
As the casualty toll grows and public support for the Afghan war
wanes, Obama is carrying out a major strategy review of his
Afghanistan policy.
The White House said that a final decision is still weeks away.
Editor: Yan
bademiyansubhanallah
Situation in Pakistan very serious: AK Antony
PTI Monday, October 19, 2009 11:33 IST
New Delhi: Warning that the situation in Pakistan is "very serious",
defence minister AK Antony today said terrorism is "spreading" in that
country and asserted that India is prepared to meet any challenge from
Taliban militants.
"The situation in Pakistan is very serious and terrorism is
spreading," he told reporters on the sidelines of the Territorial Army
Day parade here.
Pakistan has been in the grip of a terror wave with six major attacks
in the last fortnight by suspected Taliban militants, the latest being
a suicide bomb attack in Peshawar in the restive North West Frontier
Province on Friday last killing 14 people.
Asked if Talibans' threat to carry out attacks on India was a cause of
concern, Antony said, "We are always prepared to meet any challenge to
our territorial integrity and national security from any quarter. Our
security forces are keeping eternal vigilance".
Replying to a query on Coastguard and Navy's joint operation 'Raksha',
he said, "We learnt a lot of lessons from 26/11 last year. After that,
now there is a coordinated effort for coastal security and Indian Navy
and Coastguard are taking serious steps.
Government is also giving all out support to strengthen them".On the
possibility of involvement of Pakistan based terror groups in
yesterday's blast in Iran, Antony said, "I cannot say anything off
hand. But the thing is that terrorism is spreading. It is the real
menace to the world. Terrorism is a reality. Fight against terrorism
is a common challenge to all peace leaving nations and communities".
Asked if India was prepared to tackle the threat from China, he said
there will no compromise on national interest. "We will protect all
our territory and at the same time, we will continue our effort for
extending relations with all our neighbours," he said.
bademiyansubhanallah
Al-Qaeda based in Pakistan: White House
PTI Sunday, October 18, 2009 20:48 IST
Washington: A top Obama aide today said the Al-Qaeda is based in
Pakistan and that the US would "not rush" in finalising the new
strategy on Afghanistan and Pakistan.
"This is where Al-Qaida is based. Not just in Afghanistan, it's clear
that they're based in Pakistan," Rahm Emanuel, the White House Chief
of Staff, told the CNN in an interview.
"What is the relationship between the Taliban? Are there different
grades of a Taliban? That is what the analysis is going on in the
situation room, and I think the comfort for the American people is the
president will not be rushed to making a decision without asking firm
questions and challenging the assumptions behind those questions,"
Emanuel said.
Five such meetings, each spreading over three hours have been held so
far and more are scheduled for the next two weeks, he said.
Emanuel said the Administration would not rush through its decision on
Afghanistan and Pakistan and would take its own time to take a call on
it.
bademiyansubhanallah
Pakistani forces pound Taliban in South Waziristan
Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:02am EDT
By Hafiz Wazir
DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan, Oct 19 (Reuters) - Pakistani forces backed
by heavy artillery attacked Taliban insurgents on Monday as the army
moved to wrest control of militant strongholds in a lawless region on
the Afghan border.
The fighting is a new test of the government's determination to tackle
an increasingly brazen insurgency that has seen a string of attacks in
different parts of the country, including an assault on army
headquarters, in which more than 150 people were killed. [ID:SP464060]
The conflict in what is considered a global hub for Islamic militants
is being closely followed by the United States and other powers
already embroiled in neighbouring Afghanistan, and on Monday General
David Petraeus, commander of U.S. forces in the region, was in
Pakistan for talks.
With the Pakistani army claiming progress in fighting the Taliban in
South Waziristan, analysts expect resistence to weaken as the
militants are squeezed out of their strongholds.
"When forces take over Waziristan than you will definitely see the
resistance waning," said retired Brigadier Asad Munir, a former Inter
Services Intelligence officer, who said he expected operations to take
at least six weeks..
He said the militants may initially intensify bomb attacks on
government targets, but once cleared from their strongholds "their
basic capability of training and launching people in different parts
of Pakistan ... is going to be diluted".
On Monday, residents of Wana, the main urban centre in South
Waziristan, said there had been heavy fighting overnight.
"There has been artillery fire throughout the night. It was very heavy
firing," Noor Wali said by telephone.
The army said on Sunday that 60 militants and five soldiers had been
killed in the first 24 hours of the long-awaited offensive.
There was no independent verification of the casualty toll.
HARD-CORE TALIBAN
About 28,000 soldiers are battling an estimated 10,000 hard-core
Taliban, including about 1,000 tough Uzbek fighters and some Arab al
Qaeda members.
The militants have had years to prepare their bunkers in the land of
arid mountains and sparse forests cut through by dried-up creeks and
ravines. [ID:nSP352683]
The army says it has surrounded the militants in their main zone, a
wedge of territory in the north, and soldiers backed by aircraft and
artillery were attacking from the north, southwest and southeast.
Foreign reporters are not allowed in to the area, and it is dangerous
for Pakistani reporters to visit. Many of the Pakistani reporters
based in South Waziristan have left.
The army has launched brief offensives in South Waziristan before, the
first in in 2004 when it suffered heavy casualties before striking a
peace pact.
But this time analysts say the army, the government and the general
public all agree the time has come to deal with the Pakistani Taliban.
Though the military is determined, the offensive could be its toughest
test since the militants turned on the state, and the army will be
hoping other Afghan Taliban factions stay out of the fight.
About 100,000 civilians have fled from South Waziristan in
anticipation of the offensive, with about 16,000 of them coming out in
the last few days, the army said.
But the exodus is not expected to bring a humanitarian crisis similar
to one this year when about 2 million people fled from an offensive in
the Swat valley, northwest of Islamabad.
South Waziristan's population is about 500,000, according to the
latest figures, and many residents have houses on government-
controlled lowland to the east. People traditionally head up to
Waziristan in the summer with their flocks and back to the lowland in
the autumn.
While investors in Pakistani stocks have become used to militant
attacks, the violence over the past two weeks has made them nervous.
Stocks fell early on Monday.
"There is anxiety among them due to the security situation and that's
why most local institutions and investors are not very aggressive,"
said Sajid Bhanji, a dealer at Arif Habib Ltd.
The Karachi Stock Exchange's benchmark 100-share index was 2.41
percent, or 98.55 points, lower at 9,592.12 points at 0800 GMT. (For
more Reuters coverage of Afghanistan and Pakistan, see: here)
(Additional reporting by Zeeshan Haider; Editing by David Fox)
Sid Harth
US struggling to cut off Taliban funding network: report
Indo-Asian News Service
New York, October 19, 2009
First Published: 14:09 IST(19/10/2009)
Last Updated: 14:13 IST(19/10/2009)
Efforts by the US and its allies to cripple the Taliban's
sophisticated financial network in Afghanistan have barely made a
dent, the New York Times reported on Monday citing unnamed American
officials.
The Taliban in Afghanistan are running a sophisticated financial
network to pay for their insurgent operations, raising hundreds of
millions of dollars from the illicit drug trade, kidnappings,
extortion and foreign donations that American officials say they are
struggling to cut off, the influential US daily said.
In Afghanistan, the Taliban have imposed an elaborate system to tax
the cultivation, processing and shipment of opium, as well as other
crops like wheat grown in the territory they control, it said citing
American and Afghan officials.
In the Middle East, Taliban leaders have sent fund-raisers to Arab
countries to keep the insurgency's coffers brimming with cash.
Estimates of the Taliban's annual revenue vary widely. Proceeds from
the illicit drug trade alone range from $70 million to $400 million a
year, according to Pentagon and United Nations officials cited by the
Times.
By diversifying their revenue stream beyond opium, the Taliban are
frustrating American and NATO efforts to weaken the insurgency by
cutting off its economic lifelines, the officials were quoted as
saying.
"Despite efforts by the United States and its allies in the last year
to cripple the Taliban's financing, using the military and
intelligence, American officials acknowledge they barely made a dent,"
the Times said.
The Times cited American officials as saying that they have been
surprised to learn in recent months that foreign donations, rather
than opium, are the single largest source of cash for the Taliban.
The CIA recently estimated in a classified report that Taliban leaders
and their associates had received $106 million in the past year from
donors outside Afghanistan, a figure first reported last month by The
Washington Post.
Private citizens from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran and some Persian
Gulf nations are the largest individual contributors, an American
counter-terrorism official cited by the Times said.
Top American intelligence officials and diplomats say there is no
evidence so far that the governments of Saudi Arabia, the United Arab
Emirates or other Persian Gulf states are providing direct aid to the
Afghan insurgency.
But American intelligence officials cited by the Times say they
suspect that Pakistani intelligence operatives continue to give some
financial aid to the Afghan Taliban, a practice the Pakistani
government denies.
The Times cited American officials as saying they are working closely
with the Afghan government to dry up the Taliban financing but, as one
senior American military officer in Afghanistan put it last week, "I
won't overstate the progress."
...and I am Sid Harth
bademiyansubhanallah
‘You Have Atomic Bombs, but We Have Suicide Bombers.’
Hasbanullah Khan/Associated Press for The New York Times
David Rohde and two Afghan colleagues were held for months in Miram
Shah, Pakistan, a town where the Taliban and foreign militants are
known to stroll freely.
By DAVID ROHDE
Published: October 19, 2009
A NERVOUS-LOOKING Pakistani soldier pointed a rocket-propelled grenade
at our pickup truck in late January. The Taliban guard beside me
loaded his rifle and ordered me to put a scarf over my face. A group
of Pakistani civilians standing nearby moved out of the way,
anticipating a firefight.
David Rohde, a New York Times reporter, and Bill Keller, the executive
editor, answer readers’ questions on Mr. Rohde’s seven months as a
captive of the Taliban in Pakistan. Go to the Blog »
This is the third installment in a five-part series offering a first-
person account by David Rohde of his seven months as a captive of the
Taliban in Pakistan. Mr. Rohde, a New York Times reporter, was
kidnapped with two Afghan colleagues on Nov. 10, 2008, as they
traveled to an interview with a Taliban commander outside of Kabul,
Afghanistan.
The articles are based on Mr. Rohde’s recollections and, where
possible, records kept by his family and colleagues. For safety
reasons, certain names and details have been withheld.
In the driver’s seat of our vehicle was Badruddin Haqqani, a senior
commander of the Haqqani network, one of the Taliban’s most hard-line
factions and the group that was holding me and two Afghan colleagues
hostage in Pakistan’s tribal areas.
Obeying the guard, I covered my face. The soldier was in the lead
vehicle of a Pakistani Army supply convoy in North Waziristan. After
surveying the road, the soldier got back in his truck, and the convoy
rumbled forward.
I hoped that the Pakistanis might somehow rescue us. Instead, I
watched in dismay as Badruddin got out of the truck and calmly stood
on the side of the road. As trucks full of heavily armed government
soldiers rolled by, he smiled and waved at them.
After the convoy disappeared, Badruddin seemed amused.
“Do you know who that was?” he asked me.
“No,” I said, trying to play dumb.
“That was the Pakistani Army,” he said.
He explained that under a cease-fire agreement between the Taliban and
the army, all civilians were required to get out of their cars when an
army convoy approached. For Taliban vehicles, though, only the driver
had to get out. The practice, I realized, allowed the Taliban to hide
kidnapping victims and foreign militants from the Pakistani Army.
That morning, Badruddin arrived at the house in Miram Shah where I was
being held with Tahir Luddin, an Afghan journalist, and Asad Mangal,
our driver. We had been taken hostage on a reporting trip south of
Kabul, Afghanistan, in November 2008 and moved to Pakistan’s tribal
areas.
Badruddin announced that he was taking us out of town to a snow-
covered hillside to shoot the final scene of a video that would be
released to the news media. He was determined to make it look as
though we were being held in the frigid mountains of Afghanistan, not
in a bustling city in Pakistan.
As we continued our journey, we passed a half-dozen checkpoints that
had been abandoned by the Frontier Corps, a militia that had been the
Pakistani government’s primary security force in the tribal areas
until 2001. Badruddin said that under the cease-fire agreement, only
unarmed militia members could stand at the checkpoints.
As we drove, I occasionally saw members of the militia standing on the
side of the road without guns. Some casually chatted with local
tribesmen.
The trip confirmed suspicions I had harbored for years as a reporter.
The Haqqanis oversaw a sprawling Taliban mini-state in the tribal
areas with the de facto acquiescence of the Pakistani military. The
Haqqanis were so confident of their control of the area that they took
me — a person they considered to be an extraordinarily valuable
hostage — on a three-hour drive in broad daylight to shoot a scene for
a video outdoors.
Throughout North Waziristan, Taliban policemen patrolled the streets,
and Taliban road crews carried out construction projects. The Haqqani
network’s commanders and foreign militants freely strolled the bazaars
of Miram Shah and other towns. Young Afghan and Pakistani Taliban
members revered the foreign fighters, who taught them how to make
bombs.
Over the winter, I would come to know the reality the Haqqanis had
created. Some nights, commanders and their fighters visited the houses
where we were being held. Conversations were dominated by their
unwavering belief that the United States was waging a war against
Islam.
It was a universe filled with contradictions. My captors assailed the
West for killing civilians, but they celebrated suicide attacks
orchestrated by the Taliban that killed scores of Muslim bystanders.
They bitterly denounced missionaries, but they pressed me to convert
to their faith. They complained about innocent Muslims being
imprisoned by the United States, even as they continued to hold us
captive.
Yet in our day to day existence, when commanders were absent, some of
our guards showed glimpses of humanity. Those moments gave us hope
that we might somehow be able to talk or reason our way out of
captivity.
IN early February, our guards told us that Badruddin had sent the
video to Afghan and foreign media outlets but that only Al Jazeera had
broadcast it. The news frustrated Tahir and Asad, who had hoped that
the video would be widely broadcast and stimulate negotiations.
I was not surprised. I had heard before our abduction that the Afghan
and foreign news media had struck an informal agreement not to
publicize the kidnappings of journalists in Afghanistan if their
organization requested it.
The October 2008 kidnapping of a Canadian journalist in Kabul, Melissa
Fung, had been kept quiet. Keeping the kidnappings out of the news, it
was hoped, would decrease the expectations of hostage-takers that they
could garner vast amounts of publicity or ransom for journalists.
After news outlets declined to show the video, we asked our guards to
call Abu Tayyeb, the Taliban commander who had abducted us outside
Kabul and concealed his identity. He agreed to return to Miram Shah
and said he would try to negotiate a ransom with my family.
Tahir, Asad and I had received comforting letters from our families
through the International Committee of the Red Cross. But I hadn’t
spoken to my wife, Kristen, in three months.
Finally, on Feb. 16, Abu Tayyeb drove me to a remote location and
allowed me to call her. The Taliban told me to give her the number of
their cellphone and have her call us back. They were demanding $7
million at that point but were too cheap to pay for the phone call.
“This is my last call,” I said to her, repeating what they had told me
to say. “This is our last chance.”
Abu Tayyeb promised that he would reach a settlement with my family.
Then, as he had many times before, he left without doing so. My
conversations with him during his brief visit left me doubtful that he
would ever compromise in a case involving an American.
One morning, he wept at news that a NATO airstrike had killed women
and children in southern Afghanistan. A guard explained to me that Abu
Tayyeb reviled the United States because of the civilian deaths.
One evening, Abu Tayyeb declared that the Taliban treated women better
than Americans did. He said women in the United States were forced to
wear revealing clothes and define themselves solely as sex objects.
The Taliban protected women’s honor by not allowing them to appear in
public with their faces unveiled.
My captors saw me — and seemingly all Westerners — as morally corrupt
and fixated on pursuing the pleasures of this world. Americans invaded
Afghanistan to enrich themselves, they argued, not to help Afghans.
They ignored the fact that the United States helped build hundreds of
miles of paved roads in Afghanistan and more than a thousand schools
and health clinics. My captors denied widespread news reports that the
Taliban burned down scores of newly built schools to prevent girls
from getting an education.
I argued that the United States was not the menacing, predatory
caricature that they believed. I also tried to counter their belief
that all Americans were astonishingly rich. Nothing I said, though,
seemed to change their minds.
One day, I received a copy of Dawn, an English-language Pakistani
newspaper, that featured an article on the perilous financial state of
The New York Times. I saved the newspaper until commanders stopped by
for visits.
Showing them the headline “New York Times Struggles to Stay Afloat,” I
explained that the American newspaper industry — as well as the
American economy — was in a free fall. They listened to what I said
and nodded. Then, they ignored me.
WE were held for much of the winter in a building the Pakistani
government had constructed to serve as a health clinic. It was part of
an American-backed effort to win the hearts and minds of the local
population.
Our guards spent their days there listening to radio broadcasts and
shouting “God is great!” at reports of the deaths of Afghan and
American soldiers.
Most of the guards were Afghan men in their late 20s and early 30s.
Some had grown up as refugees in Pakistan. All had limited educations
from government schools or religious institutions, known as madrasas.
Some did not make it past junior high school. None had seen the world
beyond Afghanistan and Pakistan.
They all had relatives or friends who had been killed by Soviet or
American troops. They grew up in a culture where teenage boys reached
manhood and made a name for themselves by showing their bravery.
I tried to get to know one of the guards, who was preparing to be a
suicide bomber. A young man in his 20s with a slim build and brown
eyes, he said he had studied engineering in high school. He never
attended college but was relatively well educated compared with the
other fighters.
When I asked him why he wanted to die, he replied that living in this
world was a burden for any true Muslim. Heaven was his goal, he said.
Earthly relationships with his parents and siblings did not matter.
He spoke a smattering of English, and my own beliefs seemed to
interest and amaze him. During our six weeks together, he asked me a
series of questions. Was it true, he asked, that a necktie was a
secret symbol of Christianity? Was it true that Christians wanted to
live 1,000 years?
As the weeks passed, our captivity became increasingly surreal.
My Taliban guards slept beneath bedspreads manufactured by a Pakistani
textile company and emblazoned with characters from the American
television show “Hannah Montana” and the movie “Spider-Man.” My
blanket was a pink Barbie comforter.
My captors railed against the evils of a secular society. In March,
they celebrated a suicide attack in a mosque in the Pakistani town of
Jamrud that killed as many as 50 worshipers as they prayed to God.
Those living under Pakistan’s apostate government, they said, deserved
it.
One commander declared that no true Muslim could live in a state where
Islam was not the official religion. He flatly rejected my compromise
suggestion that strict Islamic law be enacted in Afghanistan’s
conservative rural south, while milder forms of Islam be followed in
the comparatively liberal north.
Citing the Taliban’s interpretation of Islam, he said it was every
Muslim’s duty to try to stop others from sinning. If one person in a
village commits a sin, those who witness it and do not stop him will
also be punished by God.
After we had been held for months in captivity, my kidnappers demanded
that I stop washing the group’s dishes because they did not want to
catch my diseases. They believed that problems I was having with my
stomach stemmed from my being an inherently unclean non-Muslim, not
from unhygienic water.
Their rigidity was the opposite of the tolerant attitudes I had found
among the vast majority of Muslims I had met in Afghanistan and
Pakistan.
Pressing me to convert, one commander ordered me to read a passage of
the Koran each day and discuss it with him at night. He dismissed my
arguments that a forced conversion was not legitimate. He and the
guards politely said they felt sorry for me. If I failed to convert,
they said, I would suffer excruciating pain in the fires of hell.
At one point, a visiting fighter demanded to know why I would not
obey. He said that if it were up to him, he would take me outside and
offer me a final chance to convert. If I refused, he would shoot me.
I realized that he and other fighters might be exaggerating their
views to frighten me. The virulence I saw among the Haqqani foot
soldiers was not as monolithic as it sometimes seemed.
One young fighter showed a different side. He refused to carry out a
commander’s order to kidnap a foreigner working in Afghanistan. During
one visit, he suggested that I read a passage in an English-language
Koran to comfort myself.
“Allah tasketh not a soul beyond its scope,” it said. “For it is only
that which it hath earned, and against it only that which it hath
deserved. Our Lord! Impose not on us that which we have not the
strength to bear! Pardon us, absolve us and have mercy on us, Thou,
our Protector, and give us victory over the disbelieving folk.”
DURING our months in Miram Shah, patterns emerged. When certain
commanders visited, the atmosphere was tense, and discussions centered
on what they saw as Western injustices against Muslims. When we were
alone with the guards who lived with us, moments of levity emerged.
They searched for ways to break the monotony. After dinner on many
winter nights, my guards sang Pashto songs for hours. My voice and
Pashto pronunciation were terrible, but our guards urged me to sing
along. The ballads varied. On some evenings, I found myself
reluctantly singing Taliban songs that declared that “you have atomic
bombs, but we have suicide bombers.”
On other nights, at my guards’ urging, I switched to American tunes.
In a halting, off-key voice, I sang Frank Sinatra’s version of “New
York, New York” and described it as the story of a villager who tries
to succeed in the city and support his family. I sang Bruce
Springsteen’s “Born to Run” and described it as a portrayal of the
struggles of average Americans.
I realized that my guards, too, might have needed a break from our
grim existence. But I felt like a performing monkey when they told me
to sing for visiting commanders. I knew they were simply laughing at
me.
I intentionally avoided American love songs, trying to dispel their
belief that all Americans were hedonists. Despite my efforts, romantic
songs — whatever their language — were the guards’ favorites.
The Beatles song “She Loves You,” which popped into my head soon after
I received my wife’s letter from the Red Cross, was the most popular.
For reasons that baffled me, the guards relished singing it with me. I
began by singing its first verse. My three Taliban guards, along with
Tahir and Asad, then joined me in the chorus.
“She loves you — yeah, yeah, yeah,” we sang, with Kalashnikovs lying
on the floor around us.
Tomorrow: A Drone Strike and Dwindling Hope
bademiyansubhanallah
Indians joining British army to fight Taliban
PTI 18 October 2009, 11:47pm IST
LONDON: An 18-year-old boy from Karnataka is undergoing army cadet
training at home and plans to join a British infantry regiment to
fight the Taliban militants.
Sharat S Mulchandi, plans to join the British army when he flies into
the UK.
"Pakistan is a breeding ground for terrorists, it's dangerous for
India. We will never forget what the fanatics did last year in
Mumbai," Mulchandi was quoted by The Sunday Express.
Over 170 people were killed in the Mumbai attack in November 2008.
In March there were just 80 Indian nationals in the British Army. The
total is expected to rise considerably when new figures are compiled.
Indians can join as the British Army as they are nationals of the
Commonwealth countries.
Army sources say there has been "a surge recently because of the
threat of a Taliban victory in Afghanistan, which would have serious
consequences for India's Muslim neighbour, Pakistan", the paper said.
Pakistan is reeling from a wave of attacks by the Taliban militants in
the past 10 days, which killed 150.
bademiyansubhanallah
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Deadly attacks highlight a dubious Pakistani policy
by Adnan R. Khan on Monday, October 19, 2009 11:24am
It was not supposed to be like this: just a few months ago, Pakistan
was basking in the glory of a decisive win over Taliban militants in
the Swat Valley. The prestige of the beleaguered army had been
restored and attacks in other parts of the country had dwindled to
near zero. How quickly all of that has changed.
Over an eight-day period, Pakistan was rocked by a series of attacks
that have left many wondering if the successes were only a glitch in
an otherwise steady rise in violence and bloodshed. The numbers tell
the tale: as of Tuesday, 106 dead and 145 injured, the vast majority
of them civilians. Prior to the attacks, it was thought that the
Taliban were broken and in disarray, unable to cause any serious
damage after the death of their leader Baitullah Mehsud at the
beginning of August in a U.S. drone strike and the subsequent power
struggle to replace him. In hindsight, that now appears a little
naive.
In the intervening weeks, as Pakistani leaders patted themselves on
the back, the Taliban were regrouping. Their new leader, Hakimullah
Mehsud, had promised severe attacks, revenge for the Swat operation
and the death of his predecessor, and now has delivered on that
promise. The Oct. 10 raid on Pakistan’s army headquarters in
Rawalpindi, neighbouring the capital Islamabad, shows just how
organized the Taliban are: a high-level of coordination with other
militant groups, the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi in particular (which was in the
past aided by the authorities), detailed planning that army
investigators have revealed included maps of the compound, and the
acquisition of military uniforms and military licence plates for the
vehicle used in the attack. To hit at what is ostensibly Pakistan’s
Pentagon, and manage to kill senior officers as well as take dozens of
hostages, points to a level of sophistication many observers believed,
even a few short weeks ago, the Pakistani Taliban no longer possessed.
Many people in Pakistan are questioning how such an attack could have
happened: if the army cannot protect itself, television pundits warn,
how can it protect the Pakistani people? “It’s starting all over
again,” says Muhammad Alim, a variety store owner in Peshawar’s Khyber
bazaar, where a blast on Oct. 9 killed 49 and injured scores more. “We
were praying that it was over. Ramadan was peaceful but now the fear
is back.” Is it plain incompetence on the army’s part? The largely
successful operation in Swat would suggest otherwise. Over the course
of that offensive, the Pakistani military has proven it can, if it so
chooses, scatter the Taliban, forcing them into mountain hideouts and
reducing their effectiveness. So why is Pakistan unable, or perhaps
unwilling, to win its war?
One senior agent with Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI),
the country’s premier spy agency, recently told Maclean’s that
“victory cannot be measured in militants killed, or militant groups
destroyed. For Pakistan, victory means ensuring our national interest.
It is every nation’s right to act in its own self-interest.” But what
is in Pakistan’s interest? If you ask Western leaders, it is to
unequivocally erase the militant menace. But for Pakistani leaders the
issue is much more complex.
In the eyes of some in the establishment, threats to the nation are
everywhere. Pakistan’s very existence is at stake, they say, and any
measure that guarantees its survival is acceptable. The ends justify
the means, but the means are occasionally at odds with the
expectations of the international community. The Swat operation is
perhaps the exception, a demonstration that Pakistan is willing and
able to tackle the militant threat. But there are now doubts
surrounding a planned campaign against the Taliban on their home turf
in the South Waziristan Agency. And other operations in the northwest
appear less geared toward placating Western demands as they are the
product of Pakistan’s own interest-driven agenda.
An ongoing operation in the Khyber Agency provides a glimpse into that
murky world. The richest of Pakistan’s seven tribal agencies, Khyber
is the last place Pakistani authorities expected to fall into militant
hands. But its proximity to Peshawar, the capital of Pakistan’s North-
West Frontier Province, where most of the war against Islamic
militancy is playing out, and the fact that the NATO and U.S. military
supply route to Kabul runs through it along the historic Khyber Pass,
makes it a jewel in any militant’s crown.
The Islamic fundamentalist of the day there is Mangal Bagh, a media-
shy former bus conductor who has risen in the ranks to become
Pakistan’s sixth-most-wanted militant. His rise, say locals and ISI
sources, is the end result of a gambit played by Pakistan’s security
services. Three years ago, Khyber was turning into a seething hotbed
of militant groups vying for supremacy. The ISI, hoping to pre-empt a
standoff with a group opposed to the Pakistani government and
military, opted to back Bagh and his Lashkar-e-Islam (LeI), a group
supportive of authorities but demanding the imposition of strict
Islamic law.
Their choice has proven costly. Since the LeI effectively took over in
Khyber, militant attacks in Peshawar have skyrocketed. The problem is
not so much the LeI, which the ISI can control, but the group’s
relative weakness. “Mangal Bagh knows he doesn’t have the power to
take on the Taliban,” says Iqbal Khattak, the Peshawar bureau chief
for the Daily Times newspaper. “They have infiltrated the area under
his control.”
LeI commanders deny allegations they are providing a safe haven to
Taliban fighters. “We have nothing to do with them,” says one senior
commander. “They are against the government but we support Pakistan
and its leaders.” But Pakistan’s military spokesman, Maj.-Gen. Athar
Abbas, counters that the LeI is in league with the Taliban. “If Mangal
Bagh was ever against the Taliban, he is not anymore,” Abbas says. “He
has changed.”
The LeI is now supposed to be suffering the consequences, at least
according to the official narrative. Bara, a dusty village that was
once Bagh’s stronghold, is being reported to be under siege by
government forces. According to military press releases, the militants
there are on the run. The area, not more than 10 km outside of
Peshawar, is under curfew. But on a recent visit there, this reporter
found LeI fighters walking around openly with weapons. Mangal Bagh
remains on the loose and, according to his fighters, whatever military
operation there was is winding down. In the context of Pakistani
interests, the LeI remains an asset, another militant proxy that can
be used in the future if the need arises.
It’s an old game, and one Pakistan’s security forces seem reluctant to
abandon. Even now, as former assets like the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi turn
their guns on their one-time benefactors, the military continues to
groom its future militant allies, perhaps at the expense of the fight
against the Taliban. But the world seems to have caught on. A recent
aid bill passed by the U.S. Congress imposes strict conditions on
Pakistan’s military. Money for counterterrorism will flow only if
Pakistan tackles the militancy problem, and the military submits to
strict civilian oversight.
The subtext is clear: the Pakistani military cannot be trusted. The
problem now is that the military has adopted a pouting posture that
may affect it taking on the Taliban in South Waziristan. “As long as
the controversy over the bill does not go away,” says Khattak, “the
Waziristan operation will be difficult to start.”
The trust issue, however, runs both ways. In Pakistan’s political and
military circles, the prevailing belief is that the U.S. will walk
away from the region after its interests are met, much as it did
following the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan in 1989,
leaving behind the overarching problems that Pakistan has obsessed
over for decades, and one in particular: India. Growing Indian
influence in Afghanistan is a festering wound on the Pakistani psyche
which, the senior ISI agent contends, is forcing Pakistan to look to
militants to counter the threat.
Those interests extend into Waziristan, where certain groups nominally
affiliated with the Taliban have at one time or another allied
themselves with the Pakistani government, focusing their jihad on
Afghanistan. It’s likely that military leaders will want to find a way
to defeat the groups that pose a threat to the Pakistani nation, while
at the same time leaving groups who represent a potential asset to
counter the Indian influence in Afghanistan intact. But it will be a
difficult juggling act. And if past attempts are any measure of
Pakistan’s proficiency at keeping all its balls in the air, the world
can expect to see a few of them come crashing down to earth.
bademiyansubhanallah
Nato hails Pakistan offensive against Taliban
Tuesday, 20 Oct, 2009 NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh
Rasmussen.—AP Provinces
Families fleeing embattled zone find roads closed
BRUSSELS: Nato Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen welcomed on
Monday Pakistan’s offensive against Taliban in South Waziristan,
saying it was crucial for regional stability.
Mr Rasmussen expressed his ‘appreciation of the increased efforts by
the Pakistani military and the Pakistani government in the fight
against terrorists in the border regions’.
‘We really appreciate that very much. It is crucial for stability in
the whole region that the Pakistani government and military succeed in
their endeavours,’ he told reporters at Nato headquarters here.
He said that Nato-led troops in Afghanistan, who are fighting the
Taliban and Al Qaeda militants, would be able to deal with any
fighters who crossed the border.
The International Security Assistance Force, he said, ‘will take
sufficient measures to deal with a possible influx of Taliban
fighters’.—AFP
bademiyansubhanallah
Pakistani troops raid Taliban hideouts in South Waziristan
By Karin Brulliard and Haq Nawaz Khan
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, October 19, 2009; 5:14 PM
ISLAMABAD, PAKISTAN -- Pakistani soldiers surrounded militant hideouts
and seized heavy weapons in the Taliban-riddled hills of South
Waziristan on Monday, military officials said.
On the third day of a major ground and air offensive to root out
Islamist insurgents, officials said, the army faced pockets of stiff
resistance that included rocket fire. But they said they were making
progress, killing 18 fighters in a tribal region that Pakistan says is
home to plotters of a recent series of deadly domestic assaults. The
United States considers South Waziristan a haven for militants
attacking international forces in Afghanistan and planning attacks
overseas.
"The government has a strong resolve to wipe out terrorism from this
area," Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira told journalists in
Islamabad, the capital. "These terrorists are a threat to national and
international peace."
Two Pakistani soldiers were killed as forces pushed further into the
semi-autonomous border area, bringing the total killed since Saturday
to nine, military officials said.
One tribal elder in the area with ties to the Taliban, who spoke on
the condition of anonymity, said 20 insurgents had been killed during
the three-day offensive, not 78, as the military claimed. Neither
account could be independently verified because entrance to the area
and many nearby towns is blocked.
In Islamabad, Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander for the
region, and Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) held separate meetings with
Pakistani military and civilian leaders to discuss the operation. They
were also attempting to ease concerns over a U.S. aid package that the
Pakistani military has criticized as undue meddling in internal
Pakistani affairs..
Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani asked Petraeus and Kerry for U.S.
assistance with relief efforts as civilians flee the fighting in South
Waziristan, according to a statement from Gilani's office. More than
100,000 people have relocated to districts in the neighboring North-
West Frontier Province, military officials said, and the United
Nations said Monday that it expected the number to rise to 170,000.
The Pakistani army's chief spokesman, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, told
reporters in the capital that soldiers were penetrating the area from
two primary directions and had seized caches of heavy ammunition and
anti-aircraft guns. He said forces had also surrounded Kotkai, the
home town of the Pakistani Taliban's leader, Hakimullah Mehsud, and an
ally named Qari Hussein, whom Abbas referred to as "the mentor of
suicide bombers."
"We suspect the leadership is still there," Abbas said of the region,
where 30,000 troops are targeting Mehsud and his network of
insurgents. "They are directing the foot soldiers in this area."
Abbas dismissed concerns that the ratio of soldiers to militants --
estimated at three to one -- is not high enough to support a prolonged
and successful counterinsurgency. He said the army had "sufficient
numbers and adequate weaponry" and was buoyed by public calls to go
after the Taliban.
"This is not an area that is alien to us," he said. "We are not an
occupying force."
Two intelligence officials in the tribal areas, neither of whom is
allowed to speak publicly, said security forces had captured several
villages and ridges with relative ease. But one of the officials said
insurgents in the Taliban stronghold of Makeen were firing rockets at
a paramilitary base located on the border with neighboring North
Waziristan.
The tribal elder said the army's advances were probably part of a
Taliban strategy to lure troops deep into region "and then launch
attacks from all sides." Among the insurgent forces, he said, are
fierce Uzbek and Chechen fighters who "could inflict heavy losses to
the military."
Khan is a special correspondent.
bademiyansubhanallah
Pakistan Bombs Area Once Declared Taliban-Free
By AP / HABIB KHAN Monday, Oct. 12, 2009
Pakistani soldiers stand in front of the army's headquarters in
Rawalpindi, Pakistan, Sunday, Oct. 11, 2009
Alexandre Meneghini / AP
(KHAR, Pakistan) — Pakistani fighter jets bombed suspected militant
hide-outs Monday in a tribal region where the military had previously
declared victory over the Taliban, killing 13 alleged extremists a day
after the end of a deadly siege of the army's headquarters.
Monday's airstrikes were in Bajur, a separate segment of the lawless
northwestern tribal belt where Pakistan waged an intense six-month
offensive that wound down in February. Resurgent violence in Bajur
could distract the military as it tries to focus on South Waziristan.
"This was a heavy spell of bombing," said local government official
Tahir Khan, who put the death toll at 13. Nine other alleged militants
were wounded, he said.
(Read more about Pakistan.)
Also in Bajur on Monday, a remote-controlled bomb went off in front of
the political administration office in the main city of Khar, wounding
a passer-by. In addition, militants were suspected of abducting 10
tribal elders after they attended a meeting aimed at forming a
citizens' militia to protect against the Taliban, said Faramosh Khan,
another local official.
The 22-hour weekend standoff at Pakistan's "Pentagon" in the city of
Rawalpindi followed warnings from police as early as July that
militants from western border areas were joining those in the central
Punjab province in plans for a bold attack on army headquarters.
A team of 10 gunmen in fatigues launched the frontal assault on the
very core of the nuclear-armed country's most powerful institution.
The violence killed 20, including three hostages and nine militants,
while 42 hostages were freed, the military said.
The suspected ringleader in the raid, known as Aqeel, also was
believed to have orchestrated an ambush on Sri Lanka's visiting
cricket team in Lahore this year. Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas
said the militant's nickname, "Dr. Usman," derived from the time he
spent as a guard at an army nursing school before he joined the
insurgents.
The U.S. has long pushed Islamabad to take more action against Taliban
and al-Qaeda militants, who are also blamed for attacks on U.S. and
NATO troops in Afghanistan, and the army carried out a successful
campaign against the militants in the northwestern Swat Valley in the
spring.
But the army had been unwilling to go all-out in the lawless tribal
areas along the border that serve as the Taliban's main refuge. Three
offensives into South Waziristan since 2001 ended in failure, and the
government signed peace deals with the militants.
In the wake of the seige in Rawalpindi, the government said it would
not be deterred. The military launched two airstrikes Sunday evening
on suspected militant targets in South Waziristan, killing at least
five insurgents and ending a five-day lull in attacks there,
intelligence officials said.
"We are going to attack the terrorists, the miscreants over there who
are disturbing the state and damaging the peace," Information Minister
Qamar Zaman Kaira said. "Wherever they will be, we will follow them.
We will pursue them. We will take them to task."
Officials have warned that Taliban fighters close to the border,
Punjabi militants spread out across the country and foreign al-Qaeda
operatives were increasingly joining forces, dramatically increasing
the dangers to Pakistan.
The weekend strike on army headquarters was a stunning finale to a
week of attacks that highlighted the militants' ability to strike a
range of targets.
On Monday of last week, a suicide bomber dressed as a paramilitary
police officer blew himself up inside a heavily guarded U.N. aid
agency in the heart of the capital, Islamabad. On Friday, a suspected
militant detonated an explosives-laden car in the middle of a busy
market in the northwestern city of Peshawar, killing 53 people.
bademiyansubhanallah
Pakistan: Behind the Waziristan Offensive
By Aryn Baker Sunday, Oct. 18, 2009
Some 30,000 Pakistani troops launched a much-awaited ground offensive
in the al-Qaeda and Taliban stronghold of South Waziristan on Oct. 17,
2009
Ijaz Muhammad / AP
After nearly three months of planning, and very public anticipation,
Pakistan's military moved on the South Waziristan stronghold of the
Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), an umbrella group of militants that
Pakistani officials say have been behind some 80% of terrorist attacks
in the country over the past few years, including the 2007
assassination of Benazir Bhutto and a recent spate of violence that
has taken 150 lives in the past two weeks.
The ground operation, code-named Rah-i-Nijat (Urdu for "Path to
Deliverance"), was launched early Saturday morning after weeks of
heavy aerial bombardments that were designed to weaken militant
fortifications. By Sunday, some 28,000 soldiers had moved into a
remote corner of the mountainous region, in a three-pronged attack
intended to trap the estimated 7,000 to 10,000 militants in South
Waziristan, including some 1,000 Uzbek and foreign fighters who may be
affiliated with al-Qaeda.
Heavy fighting has already claimed the lives of at least three
soldiers (two of whom were killed by a land mine) and dozens of
militants, according to military officials. Across the country,
Pakistanis were glued to their television sets, watching an offensive
that seemed far away against the militants who were believed to be
responsible for the widespread terrorist attacks that have left few
corners of the country unscathed. Sunday morning's Dawn newspaper led
with the headline "Army Embarks on Rah-i-Nijat, Finally."
Anticipation for the Waziristan offensive began this summer, after the
conclusion of active fighting in Swat, another militant stronghold in
Pakistan. Provincial officials announced that the government had
decided to move next against the then chief of TTP, Baitullah Mehsud,
in his South Waziristan stronghold. But military operations in Swat
continued and fighting spread to other districts, which tied up army
operations for several more months.
(See pictures of art from Pakistan and Afghanistan.)
In August, Mehsud was killed in a U.S. Predator drone strike, leading
to a vicious power struggle that elevated his deputy, Hakimullah
Mehsud (thought to be in his late 20s) to power. The young man's
promotion may explain the recent string of terrorist attacks in
Pakistan, including an audacious assault on military headquarters as
well as coordinated raids on three security installations in Lahore.
"You now have a young, flamboyant and dynamic leader in charge, and he
wants to prove himself," says Major General Mahmud Ali Durrani, who
after retiring from the Pakistani army served as ambassador to the
U.S. "Like many young soldiers, he is aggressive, but he doesn't have
the wisdom or experience of Baitullah. This will make him a difficult
adversary."
That may be why the military took so long to launch the operation,
which many army officials caution may take up to two months. But the
announcement of the impending offensive and its subsequent delay may
have made the situation more difficult, according to Senator Tariq
Azim, who points out that the militants have had plenty of time to
fortify their bases and stock up on supplies, or worse. "What is
happening now is that terrorists in Waziristan know that they have two
choices: they can stand and fight and die in the process, or they can
escape to the cities, where they know that if they are going to die,
well at least they can take a lot of people with them," he says.
Military officials, however, maintain that the months-long delay was
essential for preparing for what is sure to be a long, difficult and
drawn-out fight. The battle for Swat and its surrounding areas
provided vital counterinsurgency training tools for the military,
which also spent recent months cutting off supply lines to the
militants in South Waziristan, hoping to weaken their defenses.
The Swat operation, still considered incomplete by some camps, holds
many more lessons for Waziristan. Some 360 soldiers died in the battle
for Swat, 60 of them officers, proving that military operations in
difficult, mountainous areas against a committed guerrilla army that
is familiar with the terrain can be costly. South Waziristan holds
even harsher terrain, with less infrastructure, and the military will
have to resort to even longer supply lines through enemy territory.
The new offensive may also prove to be more challenging because,
unlike the Swat Valley — a scenic, tourist-friendly area whose
residents depend on outsiders for income and trade and income — South
Waziristan has historically been closed to outsiders. Even in Swat,
which political leaders have declared a victory, insurgents are still
ambushing military convoys and launching suicide bombings against
civilian and security targets, proving, as many local residents have
long attested, that Taliban leaders are still present in many of the
region's villages.
The remote and largely ungoverned nature of South Waziristan made it
the ideal hiding place for foreign militants, al-Qaeda and Afghan
Taliban fleeing the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. Over the
years, unmolested by government intervention, various groups of
militants fortified their bases and recruited local residents to their
cause. From those groups, the Pakistani Taliban emerged in 2003,
partly in response to then President General Pervez Musharraf's about-
face on support for the Afghan Taliban after the Sept. 11 terror
attacks in the U.S.
Since then, the Pakistani army has led three military actions in South
Waziristan, all of which ended in failure, forcing the military and
government to sign peace accords that did little more than allow the
militants to reorganize and strengthen their forces. This time,
Hakimullah Mehsud and his followers are sure to fight even harder,
knowing that if they fail, it could mean the collapse of the TTP
movement.
As with Swat, the long lead time before the attack on South Waziristan
allowed more than 100,000 residents to flee the area and go to camps
set up for an expected flood of refugees. While this massive influx of
displaced persons risks a humanitarian disaster, especially if the
operation is not wrapped up before the onset of winter, it does allow
the military to work unimpeded without risking civilian casualties.
Still, the camps, if not managed properly, can cause widespread
resentment and frustration for displaced civilians, and provide
fertile ground for anti-government propaganda.
It's also important that the action in South Waziristan doesn't end
with the military operation. In order to fill the power vacuum, the
civilian government will have to follow quickly behind with
infrastructure, schools, medical clinics and courts — key elements
whose absence allowed the Taliban to flourish in the first place.
There, too, a lesson can be taken from the Swat experience. Military
officials in the Swat Valley recently released thousands of low-level
Taliban captives into the custody of local authorities, who have
neither the infrastructure to hold nor the facilities to try the
militants.
"Civilian reconstruction must dovetail seamlessly with the military
operations this time around," says Durrani. "My fear is that it will
not, and that everything we gain in the military operation will be
lost if the government fails to provide the necessary [services]. I am
holding my breath. The future of Pakistan's children and grandchildren
depends on this."
bademiyansubhanallah
The Taliban's Heroin Ploy
by Gerald Posner
Gerald Posner is The Daily Beast's Chief Investigative Reporter. He's
the award-winning author of 10 investigative nonfiction bestsellers,
ranging from political assassinations, to Nazi war criminals, to 9/11,
to terrorism. His latest book, Miami Babylon: Crime, Wealth and Power—
A Dispatch from the Beach, was published in October. He lives in Miami
Beach with his wife, the author Trisha Posner.
Dima Gavrysh / AP Photo As the U.S. postpones a decision on
Afghanistan, Gerald Posner reports on a new secret weapon in the
arsenal of the Taliban and Al Qaeda: getting the Army addicted to
their cheap heroin.
Forty years ago, the Vietnam War was partly undermined by heroin
addiction among U.S. troops. Surely mindful of that, the Taliban and
al Qaeda are now using Afghanistan’s bountiful heroin supplies as a
tactical weapon. An internal U.S. intelligence report has concluded
that the two groups are targeting American troops in an effort to
undermine their effectiveness, while raising cash to pay for new
recruits and weaponry, a U.S. intelligence official tells The Daily
Beast.
It’s a logical tactic. The drug is plentiful, cheap—less than $1 for a
day’s supply—and potent. And while Army officials publicly dismiss
talk of any surging drug problem, some privately express concern about
the possibility of increased drug use among bored and susceptible
young soldiers.
The Taliban and al Qaeda see an opportunity: U.S. and other NATO
soldiers are caught in an increasingly unpopular conflict with high
stress and little to do in their spare time.
According to the report, which the official spoke to me about only on
the condition of anonymity, the Taliban and al Qaeda see an
opportunity: U.S. and other NATO soldiers are caught in an
increasingly unpopular conflict with high stress and little to do in
their spare time. Drugs are a tempting escape. The report cites the
drug problems in previous drug-producing combat zones. In Vietnam,
U.S. forces had a 20 percent addiction rate to China White, the almost-
pure heroin from the adjacent Golden Triangle. Russian soldiers who
served in Afghanistan in the 1980s returned to the motherland with an
addiction rate than also approached 20 percent.
This heroin bomb then does collateral damage back home. The returning
soldiers brought home a heroin problem to Russian cities that grew
exponentially during the past two decades. This past March, Russia’s
anti-narcotics bureau announced that the country had become the
planet’s “No. 1 heroin consumer.”
Today’s Taliban-fighting Americans were yesterday’s mujahideen-
fighting Soviets. They saw how heroin helped disable a foreign
fighting force more than 20 years ago. And that lesson isn’t lost on
them. With the Afghan opium crop at record levels—generating more than
90 percent of the global supply—and the Taliban and al Qaeda
increasingly relying on the drug trade to finance their war, targeting
U.S. soldiers also has the potential to seed new markets.
• Reihan Salam: The Taliban-al Qaeda ConnectionOfficially, the subject
remains taboo, especially given the Obama administration’s current
debate about changing the Afghanistan military strategy. Barry
McCaffrey, a retired four-star general who was the U.S. drug czar
under Bill Clinton, told a conference of addiction-treatment providers
that serious drug use among U.S. troops in Afghanistan has doubled in
the last four years, and that as the Obama administration moves more
soldiers from Iraq to Afghanistan, more will fall prey. “[Soldiers]
are going to stick it up their nose and like it," he told the National
Association of Addiction Treatment Providers this past May.
The remarks went largely unnoticed, but Army officials were privately
furious at McCaffrey's statements, telling me he didn’t have the stats
to back up his charge. But while Army officials talk a good game—
arguing random drug testing is in place, the Army is now volunteers,
not draftees, and the numbers of opiate addicts are still low—they are
clearly concerned about what might be coming.
In 2004, the military, worried even then about the huge supply of
cheap opiates, began random drug testing of American troops in Iraq,
and soon extended that to Afghanistan. Ten percent of troops in each
unit are selected at random, once a month, for a urinalysis. But
testing soldiers in a combat zone is not easy. Rhonda K. Paige, the
chief of the public affairs and strategic communications office of the
Army’s deputy chief of staff, told The Daily Beast, “We apply the same
testing requirements to soldiers in theater as we do to soldiers at
home station; but not at the risk of the mission and or our soldiers'
personal safety.”
George Wright, a Pentagon-based Army spokesman told me, “In Iraq, a
majority of units inspected at the brigade, battalion, and company
levels were meeting the intent of current Army policy, but compliance
in Afghanistan is problematic due to operational tempo and unit
dispersion.”
Wright made a strong argument for the Army’s many attempts to avoid
the drug problems that afflicted troops in Vietnam, pointing out that
it has aggressively trained soldiers to be better aware of the causes
of drug abuse and “to erase the stigma associated with seeking
behavioral health care.” As for punishment for anyone who tested
positive, Wright said, “Leaders will support soldiers to the highest
degree possible, and will address each situation on its merits.
However, substance abuse will not be tolerated in the Army. Every
effort is made to help a soldier rehabilitate.” That means that if
somebody does test positive, the Army isn’t likely to transfer out a
combat soldier when it already has difficulty getting good fighting
troops with experience on the front line.
“Through September 2006, [there were] no positive urinalysis results
among deployed soldiers for heroin,” he told me. He was not able to
find any later data. But The Daily Beast spoke to six soldiers, four
of whom had served in Iraq, and two from Afghanistan. All had
developed opiate addictions and had sought treatment from the Veterans
Hospitals in their home cities. None wanted to go on the record,
because they were either in the Reserves, afraid their comments might
be interpreted as criticism of the Army, or might reflect badly on
their friends who were still serving honorably in the combat zones.
These six unanimously confirmed that heroin “was everywhere,”
especially in Afghanistan. Each of them also talked about local
suppliers who had established pipelines into American troop
installations in many parts of the countries. One, who had been based
at the Bagram airfield, said that heroin was “sold at a lot of the
shops in the bazaar” located just outside the air base’s perimeter.
They confirmed that some soldiers have bartered away military
equipment, including knives, helmets, and flak jackets, for drugs.
“Why do you think you can buy surplus Army equipment inside the
bazaar,” one solider asked me. (At Bagram, according to a written
statement provided by an Army spokesperson for the base, the "Military
Police receive few reports of alcohol or drug issues.")
In conversations with Army officials, it becomes clear that the true
extent of the heroin problem among American soldiers now serving in
Afghanistan, and Iraq, is unknown. The military keeps statistics only
on how many troops failed drug tests, as George Wright noted when he
cited the zero-positive results in “deployed soldiers.” But it turns
out that that better information on long-term addiction comes not from
the Army but from the U.S. Veterans Administration. The VA is the
world's largest provider of substance-abuse services, caring for more
than 350,000 veterans with these issues per year. Ten percent of those
are opiate addicts; alcohol and prescription drug abuse are the
dominant problems. Only preliminary information for Iraq and
Afghanistan is available. Veterans of those conflicts are not yet
showing up in large numbers. According to the VA’s 2008 report on
substance abuse, 22,024 veterans of Operation Iraqi Freedom and
Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan) sought treatment for
substance abuse of all kinds at the VA. That was double the number of
just two years earlier.
The anecdotal information from some at the VA suggests there may be a
wave of new patients coming. Although not yet in the government’s
official statistics, reports of overpacked methadone clinics indicate
future VA patients have already returned in large numbers. Experts
think it can take up to a decade for the true scope of the problem to
emerge.
"We're just starting to get a lot of Gulf War veterans," says Dr.
Jodie Trafton, a health-care specialist with the VA's Center for
Health Care Evaluation in Menlo Park, California. Young soldiers, says
Trafton, tend not to seek treatment unless urged to do so by their
family. “It’s when they are still doing it and their friends stop that
they show up for care. We tend to get people later rather than
earlier, and we are doing as much as possible to push screening.”
A large number of veterans don’t even sign up for VA benefits. “It’s a
lack of awareness,” says Trafton. “We find it surprising. But we are
still getting World War II vets that are coming into the system.” That
means that some soldiers who develop addictions will get treated
outside of the VA and never even be counted in the government figures.
"We are just assuming the worst," says Trafton, "and we're trying to
make sure we have the infrastructure in place if it comes. We hope
the veterans will come if they need help and won't wait until it
destroys their lives."
But addiction is only one problem from having a fighting force
stationed in the world’s largest opium-producing nation. "I'd be
astonished if we don't see soldiers who find 10 kilograms of heroin
and pack it up in a birthday cake and send it home to their mother,"
McCaffrey said in May.
Army officials are still stinging over the 2005 incident in which four
military intelligence soldiers, whose mission was to assist the
Colombian government in surveillance and detection of drugs,
transported more than 200 pounds of cocaine on military aircraft into
Texas and Louisiana. They received general courts martial and the
sergeant who was the ringleader got six years in prison. That was the
same year that an Air National Guard pilot and a sergeant used a C-5
Galaxy military transport plane to sneak nearly 300,000 Ecstasy pills
from Germany into New York. And in the past two years, the British
have prosecuted nine soldiers for smuggling guns out of Iraq to trade
for drugs and cash.
Army officials are not worried about large, far-flung narcotic cartels
run by U.S. soldiers. Instead, they are concerned that some
individuals may be tempted to make some fast and easy money. But the
Army does not have the resources or ability to monitor every soldier
who wants to earn a year’s extra pay by mailing home a couple of
packages of virtually pure heroin. The Daily Beast has learned that
the DEA, which has the responsibility for developing major drug cases
inside Afghanistan, does not have any American service personnel
currently serving in Afghanistan or Iraq under a drug-related
investigation.
This does not cover the more than 18,000 private armed security
contractors, such as Blackwater and Armor Group, now working in those
countries under Pentagon control. Some in the Afghan Ministry of Anti-
Narcotics believe the private mercenaries might have more incentive
and means to deal in heroin.
A senior DEA officer told me the agency is working hard to try to
prevent heroin trafficking from Afghanistan becoming an American
problem. "We're trying to build the complex cases to stop the Pablo
Escobars of Afghanistan from getting a permanent foothold," he said.
"We don't have the ability to stop every mom and pop dealer in a
country where opium is the biggest cash crop. Some people are just
going to fly under the radar."
Gerald Posner is The Daily Beast's chief investigative reporter. He's
the award-winning author of 10 investigative nonfiction bestsellers,
ranging from political assassinations, to Nazi war criminals, to 9/11,
to terrorism. His latest book, Miami Babylon: Crime, Wealth and Power—
A Dispatch from the Beach, was published this month. He lives in Miami
Beach with his wife, the author Trisha Posner.
For inquiries, please contact The Daily Beast at
edit...@thedailybeast.com.
But can they supply the chic?
7:55 am, Oct 19, 2009kscr14
Of course this would happen in Afganistan. Here we go
again....Vietnam. I say bring them home, NOW.
8:23 am, Oct 19, 2009luckyooo1
Afghanistan is a haven for terrorist that wont to destroy America,we
need to stop them before they come here
9:37 am, Oct 19, 2009larry278
Yes, Afghanistan isn't a bit like 'Nam. WTF did I put my works? I got
the jonses, the smack but no works. Got to shoot up & get well. Can I
use your works, dog?
Flag It|Permalink|Reply|(1) Show Replies
Collapse Replies8:30 am, Oct 19, 2009numonk
.....
You clearly were not in Vietnam in the early sixties or late
seventies.
7:12 pm, Oct 19, 2009kingharvest
Oh dear. I can see Taliban and al Qaeda standing on the street corners
in Afghanistan muttering "who's buying, who's selling." Those
dastardly punks. If up want to do a story, how about the one detailing
how regular Americans are funding the war against America with THEIR
drug habits, all bought from the Taliban.
9:17 am, Oct 19, 2009flyoverland
Just another reason to adopt my plan to deploy ten Cessnas with crop
dusting equipment.
On the plus side, I'm sure the recruitment offices in Hollywood are
busy.
9:22 am, Oct 19, 2009oliverckerr
The Cessnas flaw: Sam shouder held missiles.
9:48 am, Oct 19, 2009franbogado
"Heroin", see U, drug oil, the century's gold :|
9:40 am, Oct 19, 2009oliverckerr
The key to winning Afghanistan and Pakistan, to dissolving al Qaeda
and Taliban, is opium, father of all opiates. That dirt-cheap heroin
readily bought on the streets of Manhattan began a sleepy Pashtun
poppy, milked in Afghanistan, oceans away.
That 17% pure heroin bag; available on select street corners
everywhere, started out poppy grown in Afghanistan. 93% of the world's
opium is grown and refined into heroin right on their farms! Bill
Gates must marvel at their market share. Monopoly!
Irreplaceable, worldwide; a blessing for all sides, especially us.
The heroin is smuggled throughout Europe, tons going by plane and ship
to South America where, repackaged, its origin is disguised so no one
gets wise; from there, routed to Mexican cartels, and from Mexico,
into USA. For the cartels this wholesale heroin is billions of dollars
in retail business.
So the key to stuffing Taliban and al Qaeda, eradicating their
corruption of Afghanistan, is to choke the opium supply, which would
wipe out the trade; and choke their criminal customers from across the
sea.
The Taliban's and al Qaeda's end nets millions of dollars, peanuts,
falafel on the table for Taliban's "freedom fighters" in Pakistan; and
money for the families of al Qaeda's suicide bombers throughout the
region. Without the opium heroin trade, al Qaeda and Taliban would be
crushed. The western hemisphere drug cartels would be facing
recession.
In Iraq, whoever is running the roads, wins. In Afghanistan, the opium
dollar is fueling the whole war! Theirs is a poor country with a rich
culture. Whoever controls the opium harvest will have battled for that
right. The hardy farmers get only enough to live decently and plant
their fresh poppy.
The Taliban "freedom fighters" would leave for home in a heartbeat,
were they not getting fed. The Taliban "leaders" have a payroll they
must meet. Obama is our Commander-in-Chief, the civilian boss in
charge, but his military bureaucrats are misleading the war.
We don't need to build an Afghanistan army. The Afghanis know how to
fight. Abraham Lincoln established a sea embargo to win the Civil War.
Without supplies by ship from Europe, the Confederate Army was doomed.
Our troops get killed on border patrols between Pakistan and
Afghanistan to protect our way of life across the ocean. A stone's
throw away, Mother Nature's opiate is illegally grown? How can our
military be so dumb as to allow this plunder creating millions of
terrorist jihad dollars?
The Afghan opium is key. We own the opium and the country is ours.
Free.
Opium control means renegade Taliban, al Qaeda terrorists, and
warlords are on the road again. Skedaddled or killed.%u2028%u2028
Our guys must begin digging foxholes in every opium field, making
deals with the Afghani farmers we are purchasing their whole crop, for
top dollar, in raw opium form. The farmers don't have to brew the
black sap into a dangerous snowy heroin powder, so they are poppy
plentiful, an ounce for the house, compliments of us.
The war momentum will immediately shift! Instead of Taliban's "freedom
fighters" picking us off as we patrol the dangerous Afghanistan
border, we will occupy the poppy fields and wait for Taliban to show
up for our feast. The key to their quality of life, to shipping their
kids off to the Ivy League is based on who gets to cash Afghanistan's
opium crop.
Many Taliban will change colors of their turbans and disappear into
the Pakistan crowds.
We need to get busy, prepare the fields, create comfortable foxholes
on every poppy acre, booby trap the brush surrounding, with a safe
swath to the farmhouse, and make it clear, by CIA, shelling out Cash
In Advance, we are purchasing their whole raw opium crop but paying
top refined heroin price, so the farmers are with us!
Taliban, Al Qaeda and warlords will have to descend from their caves
and come across the poppy fields instead of picking us off with
roadside attacks. We are purchasing the poppy crop, negotiating fair
and square how much sap each plant has. The plants, ripening by day,
are the draw for Taliban, al Qaeda and warlords to attack, the only
way they can survive, by offing our troops dug in the poppy fields.
When they step on the yellow brick road to battle we can cancel them
from above.
The extra virgin first milking is scheduled to begin tomorrow. Our
enemies know that. The farmers are paid. At 4:00 a.m. we begin
snipping every plant two inches above ground with a brush cutter, just
like that. At dawn, we chop up every poppy and spread the soil to
fertilize next year's crop.
So good-bye Taliban grunt, and don't step on any land mines going home
A couple million addicts in Europe will be going cold turkey! The
Mexican and Columbian drug cartels will be out of heroin, and lose
billions of dollars in sales.
Regardless bureaucrats will be viciously united against this plan. The
status quo is how the rigid government's bureaucrats want to go.
But with a cash infusion at the farm level, Afghanistan will begin to
flourish. The Afghani people will start rebuilding their own country,
without corruption, roads and schools decided by tribal leaders in the
farm districts, with a helping hand from us.
We must also purchase their whole marijuana crop and bring each
harvest to America for medicinal purposes. Afghani marijuana is the
most potent, best for relief of chemotherapy's side effects.
The opium pays al Qaeda's world salary. But who controls the opium
wins the terrorist war. Poppy strategy will accomplish that! Those
opposed want things the way they are. Follow the money. In the event
we ignore the terrorist's cash cow, and leave, al Qaeda, opium rich,
will have the funds to execute their murderous plans. Once was enough!
We cannot allow that. %u2028%u2028
http://michaelslevinson.com%u2028
9:59 am, Oct 19, 2009Johnnyappleseed
Mikey, too long, cut down the verbage and get to the point.
12:21 pm, Oct 19, 2009oliverckerr
The point is we have an opportunity to seriously dent the whole
underground economy by occupying the poppy fields and paying the
farmers for their crop.
What i have done is spell it out so people can see there is more to
the issue than a flip "yapp" opinion.
2:08 pm, Oct 19, 2009nanbmaroc
oh, sure..Now we have another War on Drugs...how brilliant is that,
how marvelously successful has that trick been so far ?
The way to end it is to End the War... entirely.
Afghanistan has always had poppy fields for heroin. Always.
Since Neolithic times. And probably before.
The only way to make them stop growing poppies and Taliban is to bomb
the entire country right back to the Stone Age...oops, I forgot , they
Are in the Stone Age. Well...just get the hell out of there. Now.
Its a Tar Baby for sure.
6:51 pm, Oct 19, 2009blinky
So much cheaper than occupation and war in every way, why don't we
just buy the entire poppy crop wholesale every year?
10:03 am, Oct 19, 2009oliverckerr
Exactly.
Flag It|Permalink|Reply2:09 pm, Oct 19, 2009numonk
Pharmaceutical companies do NOT like competition.
7:10 pm, Oct 19, 2009dlc1550
So the old reports that the Taliban destroyed the poppy fields were
lies too?
Who's lying here?
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_10_01_heroin.html
10:08 am, Oct 19, 2009oliverckerr
The Taliban was lying! 93% of the world's opium (refined into heroin)
grows in Afghanistan. All of the illegal heroin sold in America
originates as opium poppy in Afghanistan!
Used to be they produced marvelous rugs, now they have a magic carpet
to send their kids to Ivy League schools.
11:38 am, Oct 19, 2009pjsoft
I wish your comment about recruitment applied only to Hollywood/LA
area. Unfortunately, the drug problem is prevelant in all parts of
this country. Too bad we did not spend the dollars here to address
this problem instead of looking for WMD's and nation building in
Iraq.
10:11 am, Oct 19, 2009numonk
We do.
Prisons are quite full.
Nice job, by the way.
7:09 pm, Oct 19, 2009BipartisanCurious
Heroin? pfft. Just give the troops free World of Warcraft in their
downtime. That crack will keep them occupied!
10:18 am, Oct 19, 2009msn04061960
I see our government and military isn't serious about winning any war
still. In war you destroy the enemies will to fight as well as their
ability to survive. That is why you can't fight a war against these
terrorist in the conventional way. To win you must destroy the country
like they did in WWII. The first thing you do is destroy the poppies
or opium crops country wide.
10:22 am, Oct 19, 2009numonk
You WILL have the urban environments of the western world destroyed
with such a tactic.
Aside from the fact that ANYONE who wants to work with white people in
the middle east is due to their high on something.
7:09 pm, Oct 19, 2009kscr14
I saw a story on how most Afgan women are so depressed that they chew
on the poppy leaves for comfort and many are addicted. We owe it to
our men and women fighting this insanity in Afganistan to protect them
from this tempting drug. Will our leaders listen ?
11:00 am, Oct 19, 2009Johnnyappleseed
The optive word is leaders, of which we have so few, if any.
12:25 pm, Oct 19, 2009nanbmaroc
You mean that depressed Afghani women arent allowed to even duck out
of the insanity ?
Goodness, we cant have women on Poppy Leaves, when we drop a drone on
them and kill their children and burn their faces off...heavens NO .
If I were there , I would kill to keep my heroin escape from what the
Americans were doing to my life.
6:55 pm, Oct 19, 2009littlepitcher
I've read one article claiming that up to 1/3 of Afghan men are
addicted, and that their addiction and use at home creates an
addiction/withdrawal cycle among women and children.
The potential for corruption and illicit profit is enormous. In
America, heroin money purchases human resources officers so the drug
can be trucked cross-country inside legal shipments, by bribed loading-
dock employees. I have no doubt whatever that testing personnel and
supervisors in the armed forces are bought off the same way, and that
the brass are still wearing heroin in waist belts, when reentering the
States. Don't trust every PR officer you read or hear.
12:02 pm, Oct 19, 2009maddymappo
Can't the Daily Beast get someone with better credentials than Posner
to write about this stuff? This guy has written so much crap it
undermines the seriousness of the issue.
12:04 pm, Oct 19, 2009briansays
not really a secret
worked on the Russians
many went home with drug problems they never had
will be worse than Nam
no other diversions like booze (muslim country) and/or bar girls
12:04 pm, Oct 19, 2009Johnnyappleseed
We need to crop dust their poppy fields with rock salt, it will make
them barren for 5-8 years, and shut down the worlds largest supplier
of heroin
12:24 pm, Oct 19, 2009nanbmaroc
Oh, right JohnnyAppleseed...You people are so incensed over the life
blood of Afghanistan...if you dont like it, clean up your own country
first.
The U.S. government is behind the cocaine and heroin trade in the
world and the arms merchandising...keeping the killing
happening...near east, mexico...south and central america...
dont be so damned naive. Remember Ollie North. Get Real.
6:59 pm, Oct 19, 2009Nuld001
Hello, DEA you have the responsibility for developing major drug cases
inside Afghanistan, You don't have any American service personnel
currently serving in Afghanistan or Iraq under a drug-related
investigation and you're not covering any of the private armed
security contractors, such as Blackwater and Armor Group, now working
in those countries under Pentagon control? What the hell are you
doing? No other branches of the Government are screaming about this to
them? What's the White House doing about this? This needs action
pronto. This is a scandal and a tragedy.
12:28 pm, Oct 19, 2009truegangsteroflove
Oh, those dirty Taliban!! Or is it "The" dirty Taliban. One of the
things I've noticed in the various Defense/military/administration
propaganda campaigns is the techniques of Fox News: Some people say,
it is feared (by someone), some are concerneed. Though the risk of
rising addiction is real, the interpretation of the data, if there is
any, is what matters. If you don't want solidiers succombing to
addiction in a war zone, you might want to consider not invading
people willy-nilly. In a poor "country" like "Afghanistan," people
desperately need money for basic subsistence, and might just turn to
drug dealing when an endless occupation by foreigners with plenty of
legal tender presents itself. Or, we can just say, "Oh, those dirty
Taliban and Al Qaeda!!"
1:30 pm, Oct 19, 2009pacifistgunslinger
Where exactly are all these addicts? I served in Nam and never saw one
addict, lived in Detroit most of my life and never met one. Where is
this supposed market?
4:47 pm, Oct 19, 2009nanbmaroc
Your friends are just too high class..
7:02 pm, Oct 19, 2009margonaut
As a soldier, you have to be vulnerable to heroin addiction. Just
availability is not reason enough to engage in addictive behavior.
Ultimately, it is the military's responsibility to keep the troop
morale at a high enough level so drug cpmsumption will fail to
penetrate the ranks.
5:53 pm, Oct 19, 2009numonk
Good luck buddy. Hope you don't enjoy food or sex, I hear those are
pretty addictive activities.
7:07 pm, Oct 19, 2009numonk
Heroin is a fantastic drug, (unless you despise any elderly family or
friends who use such things as morphine or fentanyl). The reason that
the drug is illicit is entirely on the backs of the United States, and
the drug wars have failed massively.
Good for them, cheap heroin and easy access. Better than waking up
next to the rubble that used to be your house every day.
7:06 pm, Oct 19, 2009nanbmaroc
I am against the U.S. soldiers and mercenaries being in Afghanistan
(and Iraq and Mexico , etc.) anyhow.
It is an excellent thing to addict them to heroin. Keep them zoned.
The U.S. government and military are so behind all this drug dealing
all over the world. Think Ollie North for instance.
Think for yourself instead of yammering about the horrors of stupid
drugs.
Get upset over the murdering that is going on in your name.
bademiyansubhanallah
Taliban Build Multi-Million Dollar Insurgent Operation, Complicating
U.S. Efforts
Official assessments, analysts' estimates and published reports show
that the Taliban are generating up to a half billion dollars or more
in annual revenue. They paint a picture of a complex organization that
operates not just like a business, but also by turns a political
campaign and Mafia-like thugocracy.
FOXNews.com
Monday, October 19, 2009
A U.S. Marine mans a machine gun on the back of a helicopter
transporting troops over Garmsir District in Helmand province,
southern Afghanistan, on Oct. 12. (AP Photo)
Like any Fortune 500 company, the Taliban are building a financial
colossus by raking in revenue from a host of different sources and
ventures -- causing problems for U.S. and NATO forces trying to
disrupt their bloody campaign in Afghanistan.
Official assessments, analysts' estimates and published reports show
that the Taliban, which with Al Qaeda are the top targets for allied
forces in the region, are generating up to a half billion dollars or
more in annual revenue. They paint a picture of a complex organization
that operates not just like a business, but also by turns a political
campaign and Mafia-like thugocracy.
The revenue comes from foreign donations, drug money, "protection"
money and criminal activity like smuggling and kidnapping.
And as officials note, the money goes a long way.
"The insurgency is a relatively cheap war for the Taliban to fight,"
an August report out of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee said,
noting that money buys "a lot" of rifles, explosives, grenade
launchers and foot soldiers known as "$10 Taliban" since that's their
day's pay. The Taliban do have a system for incentive pay, as the
soldiers get bonuses -- double or triple pay -- for planting
improvised explosive devices.
Malou Innocent, a foreign policy analyst at the Cato Institute, said a
"great deal" of money also goes toward propaganda in the form of
videos and Web sites.
Officials have a hard time pinning down exactly how big the Taliban
revenue stream is. Estimates for annual Taliban revenue from drugs
alone range from $70 million to $500 million. Part of the reason it's
so difficult to interrupt the revenue stream is that, even within the
drug trade and other protection schemes, it comes from a multitude of
sources.
"They're getting their money from many sources," Frederick Kagan, a
resident scholar with the American Enterprise Institute, told the
House Committee on Foreign Affairs last week during a hearing on
Afghanistan policy, pointing to "local taxation" as a key revenue
stream.
The Senate report said Taliban chiefs charge poppy farmers a 10
percent tax on their product. Traders who collect opium paste from the
farmers also pay a tax, as do truckers who smuggle the narcotics out
of the country. The Taliban get money for protecting the labs where
the heroin is produced. And they get the largest chunk of their drug
money from payouts by drug trafficking groups, according to the
report.
Innocent, who likened Taliban operations to the Mafia, said the group
also earns money for protecting legitimate outfits like non-
governmental organizations.
The Taliban-led forces, concentrated in the southern and eastern
regions of Afghanistan, have grown to 25,000, according to a report
last week.
The evolving information about Taliban funding comes as President
Obama mulls over a request from Gen. Stanley McChrystal to send
thousands more U.S. troops into the battlefield. Obama's inner circle
is torn between a strategy that continues using large numbers of
troops to battle the Taliban and Al Qaeda and one that focuses more on
top Al Qaeda targets in Pakistan.
The drug money does not go in any large part toward Al Qaeda,
according to official findings.
The Washington Post reported last month that the CIA estimates Taliban
leaders and allies earned $106 million from foreign donors last year.
According to The New York Times, the foreign donations -- more from
private donors than foreign governments -- have eclipsed drug money as
the biggest source of revenue in recent months.
In his Aug. 30 assessment, McChrystal wrote that the insurgent groups
are earning "substantial income" from foreign donors and activity like
smuggling and kidnapping for ransom.
"Some insurgent groups 'tax' the local population through check
points, demanding protection money and other methods," he wrote.
"Eliminating insurgent access to narco-profits -- even if possible,
and while disruptive -- would not destroy their ability to operate so
long as other funding sources remained intact."
But McChrystal, the commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan,
said the insurgents have "exploitable shortcomings" and are not
"invulnerable."
He wrote that their "excesses" can alienate the population and that
their ability to spread beyond the Pashtun areas appears limited.
McChrystal advised that allied forces exploit that limited public
support.
Rep. Adam Smith, D-Wash., also said local support -- or lack thereof
-- is key to dismantling the Taliban. Smith, who sits on the House
Armed Services and Intelligence Committees, said U.S. and NATO forces
would be wrong to build their strategy around cutting off Taliban
funding.
"It's difficult to succeed because they have so many different sources
of funds," Smith said. "It's all about finding an able Afghan
partner."
Foxnews.com's Judson Berger contributed to this report.
by abcxyz [Oct 19, 2009 8:39:00 PM
]It appears many of the Taliban will die of old age before 0bama makes
his decision.
by hankmacaw Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 8:37:22 PM]
"eposter NY [Oct 19, 2009 7:42:35 PM]
To metric ========= your story makes a point but the story is not
true."
##################################################################
eposter is the perfect example of why it's so easy for Odumbo to pull
the wool over the libbers' eyes. They can't tell the difference
between a parable and a true recounting of facts. Listen closely
eposter this was a parable just like "The Three Bears".
by foxfair [Oct 19, 2009 8:32:40 PM]
If you want to know about communism first hand from an Italian
American who learned the hard way go to www.sgovio.com.
by pcy1210 [Oct 19, 2009 7:59:32 PM]
Jeez...the Taliban are getting their mission done because they've
learned to spend their revenue wisely and cut out the pork. If only
our administration and congress could act just as responsibly...
by eposter NY [Oct 19, 2009 7:42:35 PM]
y metric[Oct 19, 2009 4:30:48 PM
========= your story makes a point but the story is not true.
by livefreediefree NY [Oct 19, 2009 7:10:25 PM]
by foxnewslie [Oct 19, 2009 4:32:35 PM]
Blowback from last 8 years continues to haunt conservatives. Why in
the world should President Obama listen to proven failed whiner
republicans; why does mainstream *liberal* media listen to the
republican losers? -------------------Why under Obama have we lost all
the ground we gained in Afganistan? Why are the troops pulling back
every day to the cities? We did not win, but we kicked them out.
by omobob [Oct 19, 2009 5:35:48 PM]
by xmrsmithxVirginia[Oct 19, 2009 5:15:33 PM]
Thanks but the true credit goes to
Metric........................Please give credit where it is due.
"True" credit should go to the author not the cut and paster.
by 1776patriot [Oct 19, 2009 5:31:42 PM]
Do not waste another American life....turn it to glass...we will have
to someday anyway.
by xmrsmithx Virginia [Oct 19, 2009 5:15:33 PM]
Thanks but the true credit goes to Metric.
by harry12 Florida [Oct 19, 2009 5:05:18 PM]
When some of you wake up one morning and find that your liberties are
gone......be very careful who you ask as to where they went......you
don't want it to be me!
by gce1356 Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 5:01:37 PM]
It's not the Taliban we need to worry about, it's the Russians! Sarah
Palin's got the answer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x34G0h7R__Y&feature=fvw
by dkirby Michigan [Oct 19, 2009 5:00:29 PM]
I spent 4 years of my life studying communism up close. the communist
believes that there are two classes of people...workers and elite. The
workers are told where, when,and how to work...the elites take what
the workers produce and ration it out AFTER keeping the cream for
themselves. Workers who do not produce are either imprisioned,
murdered, or "sent away" to where or what, nobody knows. One thing is
certain, they are never ever heard form again. People who grow too old
to be productive are left to their own devices and denied any medical
treatment that would attempt to prolong their lives...EUTHANASIA OF A
SORT. THE ELITE NEVER LACK FOR ANYTHING AND ARE TREATED AS FIRST-
CLASS. THE WORKERS ARE RATIONED JUST ENOUGH TO KEEP THEM WORKING.
There's more but I only have 1500 characters. Bottom line: communism
is CONTROL OF THE MASSES for the betterment of the elite.
by magnarider52 Colorado [Oct 19, 2009 4:59:07 PM]
by xmrsmithx Virginia [Oct 19, 2009 4:21:08 PM]
*** Excelent! This says it all. I don’t think I’ve seen a better
comparison.
by omobob [Oct 19, 2009 4:51:59 PM]
As far as Bush mishandling the war in Afghanistan, I before he set the
orders for the start of the war, he should have studied General
McArthur’s and General Eisenhower’s war and battle strategies prior to
making any troop commitments................Good thought, except Duyba
likes fluffy novels and though Eisenhower was a logistical and
political genius, where as Dugout Doug thought he was God, nether
would have been worth a darn at fighting a counterinsurgency war. They
are prolonged. The enemy is hard to find. There are NO set piece
battles and the advantage goes to the home team. Who fights harder?
some one protecting their home and family or some one waiting to
rotate back home? pouring more soldiers on the fire is not the
solution, it will only prolong the killing. Some times you get a dog
that won’t hunt. Afghanistan is one of those.
by dkirby Michigan [Oct 19, 2009 4:49:39 PM]
xmrssmithx Virginia has given us th most brilliant comparison of
liberals vs conservatives I have ever seen. And she is right on the
money! Conservative live their lives and allow others to live theirs.
Liberals expect others to give up their lives to live as they
(liberals) dictate.
by foxnewslie [Oct 19, 2009 4:32:35 PM]
Blowback from last 8 years continues to haunt conservatives. Why in
the world should President Obama listen to proven failed whiner
republicans; why does mainstream *liberal* media listen to the
republican losers?
by metric [Oct 19, 2009 4:30:48 PM]
@xmrssmithx - An economics professor at a local college made a
statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had
once failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socia1ism
worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great
equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in
this class on that plan". All grades would be averaged and everyone
would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would
receive an A. After the first test, the grades were averaged and
everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the
students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled
around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the
ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they
studied little. The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. The scores
never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in
hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that
socia1ism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great,
the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the
reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any
simpler than that. As someone wise once said, “You cannot multiply
wealth by dividing it.”
by xmrsmithx Virginia [Oct 19, 2009 4:23:25 PM]
Metric, do you have any other good ones?
by omobob [Oct 19, 2009 4:22:34 PM]
Date: 04 July 2001 Afghanistan bans growing of poppies for opium
Reporter: Patrick Brown The United Nations Drug Control Program says
the world's biggest heroin producing country, Afghanistan, has gone
out of the drug business. The Taliban's ban on opium products has cost
many people their livelihoods. But no one dares defy the ban. Last
year Afghanistan produced almost 4,000 tonnes of opium. This year's
figure is zero. Now the Taliban uses drug profits from record
harvests. Complicated, ain’t it?
by xmrsmithx Virginia [Oct 19, 2009 4:21:08 PM]
I think this past post sums it up very well. -- If a conservative
doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one. If a liberal doesn't like guns,
he wants all guns outlawed. If a conservative is a vegetarian, he
doesn’t eat meat. If a liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat
products banned for everyone. If a conservative sees a foreign threat,
he thinks about how to defeat his enemy. A liberal wonders how to
surrender gracefully and still look good. If a conservative is
homosexual, he quietly leads his life. If a liberal is homosexual, he
demands legislated respect. If a black man or Hispanic is
conservative, he sees himself as independently successful. Their
liberal counterparts see themselves as victims in need of government
protection. If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to
better his situation. A liberal wonders who is going to take care of
him. If a conservative doesn’t like a talk show host, he switches
channels. > Liberals demand that those they don’t like be shut down.
If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn’t go to church. A
liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. >
(Unless it’s a foreign religion, of course) If a conservative decides
he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a
job that provides it. A liberal demands that the rest of us pay for
his.
by ameritianity Texas [Oct 19, 2009 4:19:15 PM]
VISIT: www.ameritianity.com See video and hear in their own words: (1)
See the CPA Audit of effects of “ObamaCare” (2) Obama says he wants a
“Single Payer Healthcare System” (VIDEO) (3) Obama on the failures of
the US Constitution to “Redistribute Wealth” (AUDIO) (4) Obama on
Black Liberation Theology talking about “Whittie” (VIDEO) (5) Alan
Keyes warning about Obama being a “Communist” (VIDEO) (6) Obama on
wanting a “Military Style Police Force” inside the USA (VIDEO) “Jesus
Love the Little Children in the Womb” too! From our readers: I love
this site because factual articles, links, statements are made. I try
to post a link to this website for on every post I make on left-wing
blog spots, hoping the messages here will wake them up and make them
aware as to why they need Christ and to make them aware as to the
damage Obama and Congress are causing our nation. God bless those at
www.ameritianity.com Ken H. in Alabama 06/08/09 VISIT: www.ameritianity.com
by metric [Oct 19, 2009 4:18:20 PM]
Obama - exhibiting all the worst qualities of previous Presidents. The
paranoia of Nixon, the messiah complex of Carter, the economic
policies of FDR, the soft foreign policy of Clinton and the gaffes of
Bush. Oh and his wife is fugly like Lincoln's.
by quickstudy [Oct 19, 2009 4:13:51 PM]
Now that the eyes on the ground have weighed in it will be VERY
interesting to see if Obama listens. I have my doubts. Of course
whatever is decided Obama won't be to blame if it was the incorrect
decision. It will always be someone else.
by rolando0199 [Oct 19, 2009 4:13:46 PM]
Nuke the entire Afghan/Pakistani border. I know this sounds draconian,
however, in hindsight, this choice will have been the only way to rid
the world of this Islamic Fundamentalist Terroristic front of Taliban/
Al-Queda. Have the guts to live with this decision (like Truman) or
apologize with Barry.
by bulletboy [Oct 19, 2009 4:09:47 PM]
by eposterOhio[Oct 19, 2009 3:56:22 PM]
by bulletboy NY [Oct 19, 2009 3:34:32 PM]
by eposterNY[Oct 19, 2009 3:22:37 PM]
bulletboy <<<<<<<<<<< village king===============I know why you're so
mad, you want to sit in the tub with david, don't you? And eposter,
this obsessive Man Crush you have on Bush is getting out of hand.
========== In psychology there is a science of content analysis.
Somebody reviewing your comments would find a regular pattern of
thoughts of homoseksual fantasies especially boys in bath tubs. You're
really creepy. Why don't you move on to a website where there are
other people like you. You won't find them here=========.Me go another
website?... You only come here to bash Bush. Then when someone plays
your game against you. You cry, whine, and get mad.... LOL.. LIberals
100% hypocrites.....100% of the time.
by metric [Oct 19, 2009 4:06:12 PM]
They paint a picture of a complex organization that operates not just
like a business, but also by turns a political campaign and Mafia-like
thugocracy. ================== Hey sounds just like Barry Soetoro and
company. Weird!
by eposter Ohio [Oct 19, 2009 3:56:22 PM]
by bulletboy NY [Oct 19, 2009 3:34:32 PM]
by eposterNY[Oct 19, 2009 3:22:37 PM]
bulletboy <<<<<<<<<<< village king===============I know why you're so
mad, you want to sit in the tub with david, don't you? And eposter,
this obsessive Man Crush you have on Bush is getting out of hand.
========== In psychology there is a science of content analysis.
Somebody reviewing your comments would find a regular pattern of
thoughts of homoseksual fantasies especially boys in bath tubs. You're
really creepy. Why don't you move on to a website where there are
other people like you. You won't find them here.
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 3:54:40 PM]
loghed: anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 3:18:26 PM]
Ummmm, Obama is president, I give up on you, you are a liberal and
hopeless. ====== ah yes, the best way to say "i have no answer for
you" is to ignore the comment/question all together. thank you for
conceeding. enjoy your day. ======================== I gave you the
only answer that I could give you, the truth, Yes, obama is a
communist by definition. I don't need proof, the man lives and
breaths. I don't know about in Canada, but you turn on any TV here and
you'll see the communist being a communist 24/7. Why would you listen
to me? Why do you need my confirmation? You have eyes, you have ears
(not sure about a brain though). obama proves himself to be a
communist everyday. Believe what you want.
by chieftrainer [Oct 19, 2009 3:53:51 PM]
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 3:30:02 PM]
...that would be the definition of one who is commu.nist, not of
comm.unism. being that one who is comm.unist advocates commu.nism. its
like saying the definition of a conservative is one who advocates
conservatism, completly true but not exactly a definition. i see where
you got the "left-wing" part from, but if you honestly believe alls it
takes to be a commu.nist is that you are left leaniing than thats
fine, wrong, but fine. in that case more than 50% of americans are
commu.nist.
=====================================================================================
My point was to define a communist by using the dictionary. If you
look more closely at the original comments, pops01 was defining a
communist, not communism. I just followed up on those comments where
you complained pops01's definition was from some cracked dictionary
even though it was from Webster's. I was just confirming pops01's
definition of communist - not communism.
by bulletboy NY [Oct 19, 2009 3:34:32 PM]
by eposterNY[Oct 19, 2009 3:22:37 PM]
bulletboy <<<<<<<<<<< village king===============I know why you're so
mad, you want to sit in the tub with david, don't you? And eposter,
this obsessive Man Crush you have on Bush is getting out of hand. I'm
sorry Obama is a complete and utter failure, but don't blame me, don't
blame Bush. Blame him.
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 3:33:47 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 3:18:26 PM]
Ummmm, Obama is president, I give up on you, you are a liberal and
hopeless. ====== ah yes, the best way to say "i have no answer for
you" is to ignore the comment/question all together. thank you for
conceeding. enjoy your day.
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 3:30:02 PM]
by chieftrainer [Oct 19, 2009 3:13:15 PM]
Directly from Merriam-Webster Online...Main Entry: com·mu·nist
Pronunciation: \-nist\ Function: noun Date: 1840 1 : an adherent or
advocate of communism 2 capitalized : communard 3 a capitalized : a
member of a Communist party or movement b often capitalized : an
adherent or advocate of a Communist government, party, or movement 4
often capitalized : one held to engage in left-wing, subversive, or
revolutionary activities ========= that would be the definition of one
who is commu.nist, not of comm.unism. being that one who is comm.unist
advocates commu.nism. its like saying the definition of a conservative
is one who advocates conservatism, completly true but not exactly a
definition. i see where you got the "left-wing" part from, but if you
honestly believe alls it takes to be a commu.nist is that you are left
leaniing than thats fine, wrong, but fine. in that case more than 50%
of americans are commu.nist.
by magnarider52 Colorado [Oct 19, 2009 3:25:13 PM]
by davids1 [Oct 19, 2009 3:00:14 PM]
(won't re-post the entire content) *** I'm not saying that the war in
Afghanistan could not have been handled better, but don't forget who
was sitting on their thumbs, looking the other way, puffing on cigars
and playing with Monica for 8 years (1993 - 2001) while the Taliban
was getting organized and building strength…Clinton. All the libs here
want to blame Bush for the mess poor ol’ BO has inherited. Most of the
economy and the war in Afghanistan can be put on Clinton’s head. As
someone else said on this board, Clinton and his buddies opened the
door for people who could not afford a house, let alone the rent they
were paying, to get into a house with payments that could not be paid
back…THAT was the beginning of the economic problems. As far as Bush
mishandling the war in Afghanistan, I before he set the orders for the
start of the war, he should have studied General McArthur’s and
General Eisenhower’s war and battle strategies prior to making any
troop commitments.
by eposter NY [Oct 19, 2009 3:22:37 PM]
bulletboy <<<<<<<<<<< village idiot
by foxnewshomer Mississippi [Oct 19, 2009 3:20:50 PM]
To all my GOP Nuts " THANK YOU G. BUSH" way to get those Taliban
Insurgent for the last 7 years. .... Good job buddy. Hope you are nice
and warm sleeping real good at night while my son is over there
fighting.
by im4ulord [Oct 19, 2009 3:20:15 PM]
by davids1 [Oct 19, 2009 2:55:52 PM]
The answer? I'll save you looking it up. Nothing! is the answer. ////
WOW even give the boy links with the answer and he still didn't figure
it out. Go back to sniffing your glue.
by eposter Ohio [Oct 19, 2009 3:19:24 PM]
Something this elaborate and extensive certainly didn't develop in
just the past 38 weeks. This poster has it right on the money: by
davids1 [Oct 19, 2009 2:44:19 PM]
The Bush administration's handling of Afghanistan is a debacle. Then
this knucklehead writes by bulletboy [Oct 19, 2009 2:55:11 PM]
You're obviously very young, or very dumb. Maybe both. You have no
idea what you're talking about. You should go sit in a dirty tub of
water and cry. And he got a thumbs up for that inane remark. What a
retard. Why don't you explain to us mr. bulletboy (that's a grown up
name?) why a not-young and not-dumb person like yourself believes Bush
handled Afghanistand brilliantly and their money making machine wasn't
built right under the noses of Bush and Cheney. Or maybe you can just
squeeze out another inane insult for us to admire.
by bulletboy [Oct 19, 2009 3:18:57 PM]
by dragon[Oct 19, 2009 3:08:38 PM]
Most posters on this site will remain bitter, angry and hateful for
the next 3+ years...probably 7+ years...that is a long time to be
mad...you all are kind of pitiful..aren't you?+++++++++++++++++Dragon?
Dragon! Dragon!. WIll you get off the computer and come take out the
trash like your daddy told you yesterday. Yes Mother! I'll coming.
LMFAO!
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 3:18:26 PM]
loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 3:11:39 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 3:03:08 PM]
"Liberal" is name calling? That's funny! My friend, I'll give you one
item of proof, then you're on your own. Obama: "I think when you
spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." If THAT isn't
communism, then what the heck is? ========== did you know George Bush
has nationalized more private companies than Hugo Chavez? does that
make GB a comm.unist? i think i saw Obama throw a penny into a
fountain, then a homeless guy picked it out. MORE PROOF HE'S A
COMMUNIST. and yes, 'liberal' is name calling when you compare them to
comu.nists. ==================== Ummmm, Obama is president, I give up
on you, you are a liberal and hopeless.
by winston [Oct 19, 2009 3:14:57 PM]
by chieftrainer [Oct 19, 2009 3:13:15 PM]
by chieftrainer [Oct 19, 2009 2:57:34 PM]
Maybe your public school is your problem. If you don't accept
Webster's Dictionary, I guess there's no hope. This is from Webster's
- "one held to engage in left-wing, subversive, or revolutionary
activities".
=====================================================================================
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 3:04:19 PM]
Directly from Webster's dictionary: "1 a : a theory advocating
elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned
in common and are available to all as needed" - rest to come.
=====================================================================================
Directly from Merriam-Webster Online...Main Entry: com·mu·nist
Pronunciation: \-nist\ Function: noun Date: 1840 1 : an adherent or
advocate of communism 2 capitalized : communard 3 a capitalized : a
member of a Communist party or movement b often capitalized : an
adherent or advocate of a Communist government, party, or movement 4
often capitalized : one held to engage in left-wing, subversive, or
revolutionary activities
by bulletboy NY [Oct 19, 2009 3:12:39 PM]
=You're obviously very young, or very dumb. Maybe both. You have no
idea what you're talking about. You should go sit in a dirty tub of
water and cry. +++++Why am I dumb? Is there something in my words that
isn't fact? Or you think Afghanistan isn't a disaster? That Bush did a
good job not beating the Taliban in 8 years of trying? I know you want
to pretend Bush's 8 years didn't happen, and it's all Obama's fault in
less than a year. Unfortunately for you, the history, the dates and
the failures all occured and that can't be
changed.==============Nothing in your words are facts. It's just one
giant broad brush stoke to a complex problem. And man don't you love
hearing yourself talk. Like I said... Dumb.....maybe the most ignorant
comments I've ever heard. Please do what I suggested, just drop what
you're doing, jump into a tub of dirty water and cry. You'll feel
better. And maybe our ears will quit bleeding for a while.
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 3:11:39 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 3:03:08 PM]
"Liberal" is name calling? That's funny! My friend, I'll give you one
item of proof, then you're on your own. Obama: "I think when you
spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." If THAT isn't
communism, then what the heck is? ========== did you know George Bush
has nationalized more private companies than Hugo Chavez? does that
make GB a comm.unist? i think i saw Obama throw a penny into a
fountain, then a homeless guy picked it out. MORE PROOF HE'S A
COMMUNIST. and yes, 'liberal' is name calling when you compare them to
comu.nists.
by winston NY [Oct 19, 2009 3:08:57 PM]
We have about 800 bases world wide. Many in Western Europe. I amounts
to about 300K support Military . It is time to let Europe and Japan do
their own protective services. A lady said , a man walked into
Washington politics with a book about his father, and a story about
change. He brought little else besides his friends. Now he is
President of the United States.
by dragon [Oct 19, 2009 3:08:38 PM]
Most posters on this site will remain bitter, angry and hateful for
the next 3+ years...probably 7+ years...that is a long time to be
mad...you all are kind of pitiful..aren't you?
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 3:06:50 PM]
CONTINUED: " 2 capitalized a : a doctrine based on revolutionary
Mar.xian socia.lism and Marxis.m-Len.inism that was the official
ideology of the Union of Sovi.et Soc.ialist Republics b : a
totali.tarian system of government in which a single authori.tarian
party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of
society in Marx.ist theory in which the state has withered away and
economic goods are distributed equitably d : commu.nist systems
collectively" -- how is this in anyway the same??
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 3:04:19 PM]
by chieftrainer [Oct 19, 2009 2:57:34 PM]
Maybe your public school is your problem. If you don't accept
Webster's Dictionary, I guess there's no hope. This is from Webster's
- "one held to engage in left-wing, subversive, or revolutionary
activities". ========================= Directly from Webster's
dictionary: "1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to
all as needed" - rest to come.
by stingerhp [Oct 19, 2009 3:03:22 PM]
to realamericanrep......Well dolt, he may be YOUR leader, but he sure
is NOT mine..No I wont leave the country that I fought for and let the
likes of you, dem communist ba$tard, tear it down any further than it
has been under your commie prez......Kiss my ruby red a$$ idiot..You
deserve no more............................................
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 3:03:08 PM]
loghed Canada: and there it is, the good 'ol liberal conspiracy. i
knew it would come out soon. also this statement "And yes I've done my
own research and you being a liberal want me to do your work for you,
so typical." what work am i asking you to do? you told me you had
proof, but yet do not wish to release it. and please dont assume i am
a liberal because i am defending one. please keep resorting to name
calling and other gradeschool tactics, really makes me wanna change my
mind. (srcsm). =========== "Liberal" is name calling? That's funny! My
friend, I'll give you one item of proof, then you're on your own.
Obama: "I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for
everybody." If THAT isn't communism, then what the heck is?
by youneedtoread [Oct 19, 2009 3:00:38 PM]
With the current administration making the decisions and have been
this last year as this has been getting worse and worse, Id like to
know when they need to take responsibility for this war, and if they
are not responsible, how about we get another Commander and Chief that
does take responsibility for his actions.
by davids1 [Oct 19, 2009 3:00:14 PM]
by bulletboy [Oct 19, 2009 2:55:11 PM]
by davids1[Oct 19, 2009 2:44:19 PM]
The Bush administration's handling of Afghanistan is a debacle. We
should have crushed the Taliban 8 years ago. That this war is still
going is a testament to how it was so thoroughly mismanaged. We need
to either put all our resources into it and crush these guys once and
for all, or cut our losses and get the heck out of there. Hanging
around for another 8 years is unacceptable. Bush was the worst
Commander in Chief in the history of this country, and Obama has no
solutions for cleaning up the mess. Afghanistan is one of America's
biggest embarassments ever==============You're obviously very young,
or very dumb. Maybe both. You have no idea what you're talking about.
You should go sit in a dirty tub of water and cry. +++++Why am I dumb?
Is there something in my words that isn't fact? Or you think
Afghanistan isn't a disaster? That Bush did a good job not beating the
Taliban in 8 years of trying? I know you want to pretend Bush's 8
years didn't happen, and it's all Obama's fault in less than a year.
Unfortunately for you, the history, the dates and the failures all
occured and that can't be changed.
by bigjohnga Georgia [Oct 19, 2009 2:58:23 PM]
For all you people talking about the Constitution please get a book
called "The 5000 year leap". This will explain very simply how the
Constituion was formulated, decided and finally ratified by the
Constituional Convention. The founding fathers were true visionaries,
and after reading this book you will see that the demise of this great
country started with Teddy Roosevelt, worsened with FDR (a liar that
used everybody to his own good) and is now clearly being raped by the
Idiot and Chief. The principles, 27 out of 28 are now violated to near
treasonous lengths by those in charge.
by chieftrainer [Oct 19, 2009 2:57:34 PM]
by pops01 North Carolina [Oct 19, 2009 1:54:06 PM]No reason!! What ?
Here you go - com.munist - a person who is regarded as supporting
politically leftist or subversive causes. Need anything else ? I also
like the way you avoided him being called a liar. Nice.
=====================================================================================
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 2:39:28 PM]
What cra.ck derived dictionary did you get this from?? i learned a
better definition when i was in public school. if this is what you
honestly believe what comm.uism is, i do feel bad for you, its
probably not your fault.
======================================================================================
Maybe your public school is your problem. If you don't accept
Webster's Dictionary, I guess there's no hope. This is from Webster's
- "one held to engage in left-wing, subversive, or revolutionary
activities".
by davids1 [Oct 19, 2009 2:55:52 PM]
by im4ulord NY [Oct 19, 2009 2:50:25 PM]
by davids1 [Oct 19, 2009 2:44:19 PM]
- Afghanistan is one of America's biggest embarassments ever. ///////
We can thank Carter for that! Oh was Carter a Dem? Like Swiftnick
quite eloquently said to realamericanrep, ” You need to complete your
education. Read the following interview then come back and tell the
class who started the Taliban: www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.html.
For a bonus gold star tell the class who advises President Obama on
such matters: metrogael.blogspot.com/2009/06/zinibiew-brzesinski-and-
obama-doctrine.html Or if video is easier for you: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V-bxx7OyZ0
++++++++++What the heck does Carter, the President in the 1970s, have
to do with a war started in 2001 after we were attacked? The answer?
I'll save you looking it up. Nothing! is the answer.
by bulletboy [Oct 19, 2009 2:55:11 PM]
by davids1[Oct 19, 2009 2:44:19 PM]
The Bush administration's handling of Afghanistan is a debacle. We
should have crushed the Taliban 8 years ago. That this war is still
going is a testament to how it was so thoroughly mismanaged. We need
to either put all our resources into it and crush these guys once and
for all, or cut our losses and get the heck out of there. Hanging
around for another 8 years is unacceptable. Bush was the worst
Commander in Chief in the history of this country, and Obama has no
solutions for cleaning up the mess. Afghanistan is one of America's
biggest embarassments ever==============You're obviously very young,
or very dumb. Maybe both. You have no idea what you're talking about.
You should go sit in a dirty tub of water and cry.
by im4ulord NY [Oct 19, 2009 2:50:25 PM]
by davids1 [Oct 19, 2009 2:44:19 PM]
- Afghanistan is one of America's biggest embarassments ever. ///////
We can thank Carter for that! Oh was Carter a Dem? Like Swiftnick
quite eloquently said to realamericanrep, ” You need to complete your
education. Read the following interview then come back and tell the
class who started the Taliban: www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.html.
For a bonus gold star tell the class who advises President Obama on
such matters: metrogael.blogspot.com/2009/06/zinibiew-brzesinski-and-
obama-doctrine.html Or if video is easier for you: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V-bxx7OyZ0
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 2:47:17 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 2:35:57 PM] You fool,
believe what you want, I know the truth. How is obama going to pursue
his commie agenda if he comes out and tells Americans that he's a
commie? All Communists lie because communism is based on a lie. And
yes I've done my own research and you being a liberal want me to do
your work for you, so typical. ================ and there it is, the
good 'ol liberal conspiracy. i knew it would come out soon. also this
statement "And yes I've done my own research and you being a liberal
want me to do your work for you, so typical." what work am i asking
you to do? you told me you had proof, but yet do not wish to release
it. and please dont assume i am a liberal because i am defending one.
please keep resorting to name calling and other gradeschool tactics,
really makes me wanna change my mind. (srcsm).
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 2:46:19 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 2:35:57 PM] You fool,
believe what you want, I know the truth. How is obama going to pursue
his commie agenda if he comes out and tells Americans that he's a
commie? All Communists lie because communism is based on a lie. And
yes I've done my own research and you being a liberal want me to do
your work for you, so typical. ================ and there it is, the
good 'ol liberal conspiracy. i knew it would come out soon. also this
statement "And yes I've done my own research and you being a liberal
want me to do your work for you, so typical." what work am i asking
you to do? you told me you had proof, but yet do not wish to release
it. and please dont assume i am a liberal because i am defending one.
please keep resorting to name calling and other gradeschool tactics,
really makes me wanna change my mind. (srcsm).
by davids1 [Oct 19, 2009 2:44:19 PM]
The Bush administration's handling of Afghanistan is a debacle. We
should have crushed the Taliban 8 years ago. That this war is still
going is a testament to how it was so thoroughly mismanaged. We need
to either put all our resources into it and crush these guys once and
for all, or cut our losses and get the heck out of there. Hanging
around for another 8 years is unacceptable. Bush was the worst
Commander in Chief in the history of this country, and Obama has no
solutions for cleaning up the mess. Afghanistan is one of America's
biggest embarassments ever.
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 2:39:28 PM]
by pops01 North Carolina [Oct 19, 2009 1:54:06 PM]
No reason!! What ? Here you go - com.munist - a person who is regarded
as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes. Need anything
else ? I also like the way you avoided him being called a liar. Nice.
================== What cra.ck derived dictionary did you get this
from?? i learned a better definition when i was in public school. if
this is what you honestly believe what comm.uism is, i do feel bad for
you, its probably not your fault.
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 2:38:03 PM]
texsam Texas: Averagjoe you redn*ck moron. Go back to where ever you
came from. America's founders had nothing do with "judeo-christian"
principles. In fact the whole notion of judeo-christian is self-
contradictory. It was simply fabricated by the neo-cons to further
their agenda - know what I mean!! =================== Can you tell me
what the first line of the preamble of your state of Texas
constitution says? Didn't think so. It says: CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE
OF TEXAS. PREAMBLE. Humbly invoking the blessing of Almighty God, the
people of the State of Texas do ordain and establish this
Constitution. - Know what I mean, commie???
by 14jack14 [Oct 19, 2009 2:36:29 PM]
Who is the enemy? It is funny how this definition changes based on
American interests. If we were at War with Iran, and established an
eastern front, would we not want the Taliban as an ali. Just pointing
out the complexity of this situation. I'm for paying off the Taliban,
having amore focused covert plan to destroy Al Queda in Pakistan, and
get our military out of Afghanastan and Iraq.
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 2:35:57 PM]
loghed Canada: anaveragejoe Pennsylvania ================ you have
done your research? you just choose not to explain any of it?
commu.nism is based on socia.listic and egal.ist principles, granted
socia.lism implies greater interference from the gov't, so a gov't
that has greater interference would be closer to socia.llism. but
thats the same thing as saying a green banana is on its way to
becoming an apple because its green. to become commu.nist one must
inherit all principles of commu.nism, it would be ludicrous to say
this administration has become anyway close to this. last time i
checked americans can still own property right? ========= You fool,
believe what you want, I know the truth. How is obama going to pursue
his commie agenda if he comes out and tells Americans that he's a
commie? All Communists lie because communism is based on a lie. And
yes I've done my own research and you being a liberal want me to do
your work for you, so typical.
by mikewebb59 NY [Oct 19, 2009 2:35:56 PM]
Quick, time for another Obama apology tour. That'll solve everything
or get him the 2010 Nobel Prize; and he'll another one to make a set
of bookends. Make sure to apologize to the Taliban, the Pakistanis,
the Kurds, the Chinese, the Russians, the Iranians -- who have we
missed? We need to be in this fight full on, or not at all; and it's
this president's task to grow a pair either way.
by swiftnick Colorado [Oct 19, 2009 2:34:13 PM]
realamericanrep – Actually, acepilot may be closer to the truth than
you are aware or perhaps care to divulge. Your remark makes it clear
you didn’t bother to read your own article, at the bottom: “Is it fair
to hold George W. Bush personally responsible for the biggest annual
increase in opium output in history? Probably not.” You need to
complete your education. Read the following interview then come back
and tell the class who started the Taliban: www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.html.
For a bonus gold star tell the class who advises President Obama on
such matters: metrogael.blogspot.com/2009/06/zinibiew-brzesinski-and-
obama-doctrine.html Or if video is easier for you: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V-bxx7OyZ0
by im4ulord [Oct 19, 2009 2:34:03 PM]
by mudslip [Oct 19, 2009 2:15:11 PM]
But hey, in your own little world - he could have done no wrong.
Right? /////////// Did I say I even voted for GWB??? No I did not. You
know, maybe if you libies would shut you vindictive mouths for 15 min,
maybe that cut under you nose would heal!
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 2:32:23 PM]
texsam Texas: Averagjoe you redn*ck moron. Go back to where ever you
came from. America's founders had nothing do with "judeo-christian"
principles. In fact the whole notion of judeo-christian is self-
contradictory. It was simply fabricated by the neo-cons to further
their agenda - know what I mean!! =================== Do you know
where this comes from? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that
all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with
certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the
pursuit of Happiness." Didn't think so, it's from the Constitution of
the United States of AMERICA. - Know what I mean? I know where I came
from and I know where you're headed, headlong into Communism. You
might as well take a swim down to Cuba and get with your kind.
by hemmmark Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 2:31:55 PM]
by im4ulord [Oct 19, 2009 2:04:55 PM]
Oh here we go again......everybody say it with me now ..."It isn't
Obama's fault, he inherited it from the previous
adminitration...tadda, yadda ,yadda." Is that all you libies have been
brainwashed to say? The current administration has done NOTHING but
tear this country down, whether with crimial czars and appointees or
apologizing for the past sins of the country he says he represents. He
is nothing but a post turtle. You heard the latest news..... "Largest
Turtle-Linked Salmonella Outbreak Sickens 107" He is nothing but a
disease and the mojority of Americans are sick that this scam artist
is even in office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I will tell you what has divided the country ~ ****the democrats/
independants stand that enough is enough and that they want the gov.
to actually work for their benefit.****a president who is determined
to keep his promises to the middle class of this country, despite
strong opposition from proponents of "status quo" including greedy
corporatitons****majority wising up against decade old fear-mongering
tactics.****some people still pretending to ignore current state of
the country and still believing that guns/war is the answer to all
problems.****people still thinking that we remain #1 by scaring them
with our huge arsenal !
by hemmmark Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 2:31:54 PM]
by im4ulord [Oct 19, 2009 2:04:55 PM]
Oh here we go again......everybody say it with me now ..."It isn't
Obama's fault, he inherited it from the previous
adminitration...tadda, yadda ,yadda." Is that all you libies have been
brainwashed to say? The current administration has done NOTHING but
tear this country down, whether with crimial czars and appointees or
apologizing for the past sins of the country he says he represents. He
is nothing but a post turtle. You heard the latest news..... "Largest
Turtle-Linked Salmonella Outbreak Sickens 107" He is nothing but a
disease and the mojority of Americans are sick that this scam artist
is even in office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I will tell you what has divided the country ~ ****the democrats/
independants stand that enough is enough and that they want the gov.
to actually work for their benefit.****a president who is determined
to keep his promises to the middle class of this country, despite
strong opposition from proponents of "status quo" including greedy
corporatitons****majority wising up against decade old fear-mongering
tactics.****some people still pretending to ignore current state of
the country and still believing that guns/war is the answer to all
problems.****people still thinking that we remain #1 by scaring them
with our huge arsenal !
by hemmmark Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 2:31:51 PM]
by im4ulord [Oct 19, 2009 2:04:55 PM]
Oh here we go again......everybody say it with me now ..."It isn't
Obama's fault, he inherited it from the previous
adminitration...tadda, yadda ,yadda." Is that all you libies have been
brainwashed to say? The current administration has done NOTHING but
tear this country down, whether with crimial czars and appointees or
apologizing for the past sins of the country he says he represents. He
is nothing but a post turtle. You heard the latest news..... "Largest
Turtle-Linked Salmonella Outbreak Sickens 107" He is nothing but a
disease and the mojority of Americans are sick that this scam artist
is even in office.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I will tell you what has divided the country ~ ****the democrats/
independants stand that enough is enough and that they want the gov.
to actually work for their benefit.****a president who is determined
to keep his promises to the middle class of this country, despite
strong opposition from proponents of "status quo" including greedy
corporatitons****majority wising up against decade old fear-mongering
tactics.****some people still pretending to ignore current state of
the country and still believing that guns/war is the answer to all
problems.****people still thinking that we remain #1 by scaring them
with our huge arsenal !
by hemmmark Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 2:31:45 PM]
by pops01 North Carolina [Oct 19, 2009 1:54:06 PM]
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 1:40:26 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 1:37:34 PM]
loghed: a seemingly unbiased story realeased by FOXNews. good work.
its just unfortunate its followers have to turn it into another way to
bash Obama. remind me, which US president has given the most money to
the Taliban in recent history? hmmmm. ============= We'll stop bashing
obama when he stops being a communist and a liar. Let me know when
that happens. ======================== Please, OH PLEASE tell me how
he has become a communist. for the record, i am not an Obama lover,
just dont see the need to bash someone for no reason. ///////////////
No reason!! What ? Here you go - communist - a person who is regarded
as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes. Need anything
else ? I also like the way you avoided him being called a liar. Nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You are right. We should remove programs like medicare/"social"
security altogether.I can bet your mom wont be too pleased!
by hemmmark Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 2:31:44 PM]
by pops01 North Carolina [Oct 19, 2009 1:54:06 PM]
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 1:40:26 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 1:37:34 PM]loghed: a
seemingly unbiased story realeased by FOXNews. good work. its just
unfortunate its followers have to turn it into another way to bash
Obama. remind me, which US president has given the most money to the
Taliban in recent history? hmmmm. ============= We'll stop bashing
obama when he stops being a communist and a liar. Let me know when
that happens. ======================== Please, OH PLEASE tell me how
he has become a communist. for the record, i am not an Obama lover,
just dont see the need to bash someone for no reason. ///////////////
No reason!! What ? Here you go - communist - a person who is regarded
as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes. Need anything
else ? I also like the way you avoided him being called a liar. Nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You are right. We should remove programs like medicare/"social"
security altogether.I can bet your mom wont be too pleased!
by hemmmark Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 2:31:35 PM]
by pops01 North Carolina [Oct 19, 2009 1:54:06 PM]
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 1:40:26 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 1:37:34 PM]
loghed: a seemingly unbiased story realeased by FOXNews. good work.
its just unfortunate its followers have to turn it into another way to
bash Obama. remind me, which US president has given the most money to
the Taliban in recent history? hmmmm. ============= We'll stop bashing
obama when he stops being a communist and a liar. Let me know when
that happens. ======================== Please, OH PLEASE tell me how
he has become a communist. for the record, i am not an Obama lover,
just dont see the need to bash someone for no reason. ///////////////
No reason!! What ? Here you go - communist - a person who is regarded
as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes. Need anything
else ? I also like the way you avoided him being called a liar. Nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You are right. We should remove programs like medicare/"social"
security altogether.I can bet your mom wont be too pleased!
by jpen10 Oregon [Oct 19, 2009 2:31:15 PM]
And I bet all of the CEO'S, CFO's and other Cf-ingO's get millions in
bonuses!!!
by bulletboy NY [Oct 19, 2009 2:28:27 PM]
by mudslip[Oct 19, 2009 2:15:11 PM]
"It isn't Obama's fault, he inherited it from the previous
adminitration...tadda, yadda ,yadda." Is that all you libies have been
brainwashed to say?"
====================================================================
Same brainwashing you succumbed to regarding your diehard Republican
support for George W. Bush's colossal (f)uckup of Presidential
leadership regarding Iraq. And Afghanistan. And the U.S. Economic
collapse. And so forth. But hey, in your own little world - he could
have done no wrong. Right?=========================Hey dummy, The U.S
economical collapse was caused by the housing bubble created by Bill
Clinton, Dodd, and Barney Franks when they guaranteed- through Freddy
an Fanny -that welfare babies like you could get a house for free. The
war In Afghanistan was started by this little thing called the 9-11
attacks. And speaking of Afghan. Obama has sent over 32,000 troops to
War there since March. I noticed that u and your lefty loon friends
love WAR now that your fake God is sending them to die. No protest, no
nothing. LIBERALS NOW LOVE WAR, PERIOD. IT'S A FACT
by blackrain Oklahoma [Oct 19, 2009 2:27:02 PM]
I'm sure millions are coming from the aid obama is sending
pakistan...obama even wants to spread others wealth to his taliban
clan...muslims like to share others money..when they aren't killing
each other.
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 2:26:12 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania ================ you have done your
research? you just choose not to explain any of it? commu.nism is
based on socia.listic and egal.ist principles, granted socia.lism
implies greater interference from the gov't, so a gov't that has
greater interference would be closer to socia.llism. but thats the
same thing as saying a green banana is on its way to becoming an apple
because its green. to become commu.nist one must inherit all
principles of commu.nism, it would be ludicrous to say this
administration has become anyway close to this. last time i checked
americans can still own property right?
by magnarider52 Colorado [Oct 19, 2009 2:25:09 PM]
by btezra420 [Oct 19, 2009 1:10:02 PM] - let me guess, this is all
Obama's fault *** Nope...the way I see it, it wasn't BO's fault. The
Taliban didn't become a unified group until 1994 after fighting the
Russians. Now...let's see, who was president from 1993 - 2001. Oh,
that's right...Clinton! He was too busy "not having s3x" will Monica
to take care of an imerging threat that now is...well you get it. I
wonder what our next Democrate president will do for us!
by mudslip [Oct 19, 2009 2:23:19 PM]
"Well texsam, you are an idiot in your own right. Well folks, we're
all back to the liberal dickheads calling us names again."
===================================================================
Oh...the irony.
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 2:21:45 PM
]texsam Texas: Averagjoe you redn*ck moron. Go back to where ever you
came from. America's founders had nothing do with "judeo-christian"
principles. In fact the whole notion of judeo-christian is self-
contradictory. It was simply fabricated by the neo-cons to further
their agenda - know what I mean!! =================== Can you tell me
what the first line of the preamble of your state of Texas
constitution says? Didn't think so. It says: CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE
OF TEXAS. PREAMBLE. Humbly invoking the blessing of Almighty God, the
people of the State of Texas do ordain and establish this
Constitution. - Know what I mean, commie???
by samurai54 Oregon [Oct 19, 2009 2:20:15 PM]
by texsam Texas [Oct 19, 2009 2:04:59 PM] Averagjoe you redn*ck moron.
Go back to where ever you came from. America's founders had nothing do
with "judeo-christian" principles. In fact the whole notion of judeo-
christian is self-contradictory. It was simply fabricated by the neo-
cons to further their agenda - know what I mean!!======== Well texsam,
you are an idiot in your own right. Well folks, we're all back to the
liberal dickheads calling us names again. Well goat roper, you
obviously didn't read your history, the Pilgrims wanted to cut ties
with the English Church, Our forefathers must have held a reverent
belief, hence "In God we trust", look on the back of any American
currency!. Your the moron.
by samurai54 NY [Oct 19, 2009 2:19:03 PM]
by texsam Texas [Oct 19, 2009 2:04:59 PM] Averagjoe you redn*ck moron.
Go back to where ever you came from. America's founders had nothing do
with "judeo-christian" principles. In fact the whole notion of judeo-
christian is self-contradictory. It was simply fabricated by the neo-
cons to further their agenda - know what I mean!!======== Well texsam,
you are an idiot in your own right. Well folks, we're all back to the
liberal dickheads calling us names again. Well goat roper, you
obviously didn't read your history, the Pilgrims wanted to cut ties
with the English Church, Our forefathers must have held a reverent
belief, hence "In God we trust", look on the back of any American
currency!. Your the moron.
by mudslip [Oct 19, 2009 2:15:11 PM]
"It isn't Obama's fault, he inherited it from the previous
adminitration...tadda, yadda ,yadda." Is that all you libies have been
brainwashed to say?"
====================================================================
Same brainwashing you succumbed to regarding your diehard Republican
support for George W. Bush's colossal (f)uckup of Presidential
leadership regarding Iraq. And Afghanistan. And the U.S. Economic
collapse. And so forth. But hey, in your own little world - he could
have done no wrong. Right?
by bulletboy [Oct 19, 2009 2:09:30 PM]
Saying Obama is weak is giving him a promotion. He should just start
wearing pink suits and get it over with.
by texsam Texas [Oct 19, 2009 2:04:59 PM]
Averagjoe you redn*ck moron. Go back to where ever you came from.
America's founders had nothing do with "judeo-christian" principles.
In fact the whole notion of judeo-christian is self-contradictory. It
was simply fabricated by the neo-cons to further their agenda - know
what I mean!!
by im4ulord [Oct 19, 2009 2:04:55 PM]
Oh here we go again......everybody say it with me now ..."It isn't
Obama's fault, he inherited it from the previous
adminitration...tadda, yadda ,yadda." Is that all you libies have been
brainwashed to say? The current administration has done NOTHING but
tear this country down, whether with crimial czars and appointees or
apologizing for the past sins of the country he says he represents. He
is nothing but a post turtle. You heard the latest news..... "Largest
Turtle-Linked Salmonella Outbreak Sickens 107" He is nothing but a
disease and the mojority of Americans are sick that this scam artist
is even in office.
by ralphm1 Rhode Island [Oct 19, 2009 1:59:04 PM]
Since the Taliban have access to so much money, they're sure to be a
ready target for campaing funding. I suppose that its only a matter of
time before BO goes hat-in-hand to their leadership, apologizes for
the US forcing them to support Al Quida, and for forcing Al Quida to
hit the WTC and Pentagon, those bastions of evil US war mongers and
capitalist.
by pops01 North Carolina [Oct 19, 2009 1:54:06 PM]
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 1:40:26 PM]by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania
[Oct 19, 2009 1:37:34 PM]loghed: a seemingly unbiased story realeased
by FOXNews. good work. its just unfortunate its followers have to turn
it into another way to bash Obama. remind me, which US president has
given the most money to the Taliban in recent history? hmmmm.
============= We'll stop bashing obama when he stops being a communist
and a liar. Let me know when that happens. ========================
Please, OH PLEASE tell me how he has become a communist. for the
record, i am not an Obama lover, just dont see the need to bash
someone for no reason. /////////////// No reason!! What ? Here you go
- communist - a person who is regarded as supporting politically
leftist or subversive causes. Need anything else ? I also like the way
you avoided him being called a liar. Nice.
by commentman NY [Oct 19, 2009 1:54:03 PM]
LET'S SEE HOW THIS WORKS …... 1. ITALIAN MAFIA – RICO LAWS - PROFILING
2. MEXICAN MAFIA – RICO LAWS – PROFILING 3. ASIAN MAFIA – RICO LAWS -
PROFILING 4. INTER-STELLAR GALATIC MAFIA – RICO LAWS - PROFILING 5.
TALIBAN MUSLIN MAFIA – NO RICO LAWS – NO PROFILING 6. TED KENNEDY
MEMORIAL LIBRARY MAFIA – NO RICO LAWS – NO PROFILING 7. ACORN SOCIAL/
ECONOMIC JUSTICE MAFIA -NO RICO LAWS – NO PROFILING
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 1:52:09 PM]
anaveragejoe:We'll stop bashing obama when he stops being a communist
and a liar. Let me know when that happens. ========================
Please, OH PLEASE tell me how he has become a communist. for the
record, i am not an Obama lover, just dont see the need to bash
someone for no reason. =================== Don't take my word, I did
my research and discovered that obama is a communist. Apparently you
are on the internet so search his words (past his present), search his
mentors, search the backgrounds of those close to him, search his
actions and comments (past and present), if you do and you can not see
that he is a communist, then you don't know what a communist is or you
are blind to the truth or both.
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 1:42:30 PM]
realamericanrep: The leader of America is addressing what the previous
administration neglected for 8 years and if he's not your leader that
means your not an American, so get out the country and take your lies
and conspiracy theories with you. =============== "America" is an
ideology founded on Judeo-Christian principles, capitalism and
individual liberties as outlined in the Constitution. If you support
an anti-American like obama and the cast of commies that he has
appointed, then you too are anti-American.
by reneea29 [Oct 19, 2009 1:41:54 PM]
Obama is the weakest leader this country has ever had...FAct....he has
done nothing...just like SNL skit.....and he still has these New
England tards sticking up for a Man that has done JACK!!
by jen007 [Oct 19, 2009 1:40:59 PM]
Ameritianity - thanks for posting your message. I will check out your
sight. You are right on about God. Obama has his back turned on Him,
and we are definitely feeling the effects of becoming a godless
nation. Trust the Lord! Peace through Him only, not a politician.
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 1:40:26 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 1:37:34 PM]loghed: a
seemingly unbiased story realeased by FOXNews. good work. its just
unfortunate its followers have to turn it into another way to bash
Obama. remind me, which US president has given the most money to the
Taliban in recent history? hmmmm. ============= We'll stop bashing
obama when he stops being a communist and a liar. Let me know when
that happens. ======================== Please, OH PLEASE tell me how
he has become a communist. for the record, i am not an Obama lover,
just dont see the need to bash someone for no reason.
by independentgal [Oct 19, 2009 1:38:44 PM]
rzarc - by independentgal [Oct 19, 2009 1:15:54 PM] I heard Obama
donated the money he got for winning the nobel to the taliban, is it
true?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
No, he diverted $10B of TARP money to them. Get your Right-Wing rumors
straight. -------- I don’t understand, did he give money to the
taliban? He does want to be friends with them right?
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 1:37:34 PM]
loghed: a seemingly unbiased story realeased by FOXNews. good work.
its just unfortunate its followers have to turn it into another way to
bash Obama. remind me, which US president has given the most money to
the Taliban in recent history? hmmmm. ============= We'll stop bashing
obama when he stops being a communist and a liar. Let me know when
that happens.
by jamesjoyce Maine [Oct 19, 2009 1:34:13 PM]
Taliban are also finance by addicts in this country who also do us the
favor of running up our health care costs for their methodone.
by loghed Canada [Oct 19, 2009 1:30:45 PM]
a seemingly unbiased story realeased by FOXNews. good work. its just
unfortunate its followers have to turn it into another way to bash
Obama. remind me, which US president has given the most money to the
Taliban in recent history? hmmmm.
by realamericanrep [Oct 19, 2009 1:29:15 PM]
by stingerhp [Oct 19, 2009 1:20:19 PM]While YOUR leader plays
basketball and campaigns for a government office, YOUR enemy is
building up its forces and laughing at YOU for not stopping them..As
long as YOUR leader makes no effort to win this war, we will not be
the free nation we started out to be..YOUR leader has destroyed the
America that the majority of us know and hopefully time will pass
quickly so we can eliminate the clown from office before we all must
go back to school and learn a foreign language...... ---------------
The leader of America is addressing what the previous administration
neglected for 8 years and if he's not your leader that means your not
an American, so get out the country and take your lies and conspiracy
theories with you.
by patriotandproud [Oct 19, 2009 1:28:50 PM]
weak leadership = weak country
by gce1356 Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 1:26:28 PM]
After all, how long did it take the "deregulate everything"
Republicans to find Madoff? Oh, that's right, they didn't. It was the
Dems who did.
by realamericanrep [Oct 19, 2009 1:25:15 PM]
by acepilot [Oct 19, 2009 1:08:57 PM]I wonder how much Obama is giving
them under the table?? ------------------ Nobody has helped the
Taliban generate money more than the Bush administration.
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0304d.asp
by gce1356 Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 1:25:12 PM]
I wouldn't be surprised in the Taliban have a few investments on Wall
Street under shell companies or in the names of proxies.
by gce1356 Arizona [Oct 19, 2009 1:23:31 PM]
Maybe they invested on Wall Street and are using capitalist greed
against the Americans.
by chrissb California [Oct 19, 2009 1:22:47 PM]
why is it Oil revenues are not listed as source of funding. Is that
not their largest source?
by stingerhp [Oct 19, 2009 1:20:19 PM]
While YOUR leader plays basketball and campaigns for a government
office, YOUR enemy is building up its forces and laughing at YOU for
not stopping them..As long as YOUR leader makes no effort to win this
war, we will not be the free nation we started out to be..YOUR leader
has destroyed the America that the majority of us know and hopefully
time will pass quickly so we can eliminate the clown from office
before we all must go back to school and learn a foreign
language......
by rzarc [Oct 19, 2009 1:19:00 PM]
by independentgal [Oct 19, 2009 1:15:54 PM] I heard Obama donated the
money he got for winning the nobel to the taliban, is it true?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
No, he diverted $10B of TARP money to them. Get your Right-Wing rumors
straight.
by yukiko [Oct 19, 2009 1:18:26 PM]
Reread the article and substitute 'the Obama Administration' for 'the
Taliban'. It could go either way.
by rzarc [Oct 19, 2009 1:17:32 PM]
Perhaps we should just pay the Taliban fighters one hundred dollars
not to fight us. That is essentially what we did in Iraq to quell the
violence. At the same time we should see to FAIR elections in the
country and not the shame that was run in the last election.
by independentgal [Oct 19, 2009 1:15:54 PM]
I heard Obama donated the money he got for winning the nobel to the
taliban, is it true?
by ameritianity Texas [Oct 19, 2009 1:15:11 PM]
VISIT: www.ameritianity.com See video and hear in their own words: See
the CPA Audit of effects of “ObamaCare” Obama says he wants a “Single
Payer Healthcare System” (VIDEO) Obama on the failures of the US
Constitution to “Redistribute Wealth” (AUDIO) Obama on Black
Liberation Theology talking about “Whittie” (VIDEO) Alan Keyes warning
about Obama being a “Communist” (VIDEO) Obama on wanting a “Military
Style Police Force” inside the USA (VIDEO) “Jesus Love the Little
Children in the Womb” too! From our readers: I love this site because
factual articles, links, statements are made. I try to post a link to
this website for on every post I make on left-wing blog spots, hoping
the messages here will wake them up and make them aware as to why they
need Christ and to make them aware as to the damage Obama and Congress
are causing our nation. God bless those at www.ameritianity.com Ken H.
in Alabama 06/08/09 What a wonderful website. It needs to be broadcast
for all to read. I am beginning to feel hope. So much of the anger,
frustration, and defeat I have been experiencing are written on this
site by others. I am beginning to feel there is hope, we will survive
this mess, and triumph again, with God’s help. He had a reason for
allowing this President to enter office. It was to wake us up and get
us on our feet and working to restore this country to what it once
was!! We need to understand that freedom isn’t free. VISIT: www.ameritianity.com
by tonyh110 Tennessee [Oct 19, 2009 1:10:12 PM]
You snooze you lose - and our CinC has Narcolepsy with Afghanistan
by btezra420 [Oct 19, 2009 1:10:02 PM]
let me guess, this is all Obama's fault
by acepilot [Oct 19, 2009 1:08:57 PM]
I wonder how much Obama is giving them under the table??
by acepilot [Oct 19, 2009 1:08:10 PM]
by anaveragejoe Pennsylvania [Oct 19, 2009 1:06:09 PM]
Why can't the obama administration simply limit their pay and
confiscate their profits like they do to American citizens and
American companies?
by chicodon [Oct 19, 2009 12:58:27 PM]
Anyone given the chance to build their war machine while your enemy
sits on the fence would do just that.. The enemy of America is
building their forces and ability to fight while whats his name sits
on his hands wetting his panties..Imagine if you will, a dufus of an
idiot sitting at the trigger of a nuclear weapon with the intention of
killing Americans..How do you defend that when all your defenses are
torn down..?????
by kbee50 Texas [Oct 19, 2009 2:45:19 PM]
anaveragejoe :AMEN!
by drdave57 [Oct 19, 2009 2:45:15 PM]
Fox please try to catch misspellings before posting, Militants'
Millions to Wage War "Taliban amassing up to half a billion dollars in
revenue from a host of elicit business ventures" Shouldn't that be
illicit business ventures
bademiyansubhanallah
Political Punch
Power, pop, and probings from ABC News Senior White House
Correspondent Jake Tapper
Political coverage and musings on pop culture from ABC News Senior
White House Correspondent Jake Tapper and the ABC News White House
team.
The Karzai Standoff
October 19, 2009 9:35 AM
As feared, Afghan President Hamid Karzai is refusing to accept the
conclusion by the UN-run election complaints commission that there was
so much fraud in the August election, Karzai didn't actually get over
50% of the vote and a runoff election with Dr. Abdullah Abdullah is
needed.
We discussed this likelihood on World News last week:
This puts President Obama in a double bind.
First, decision-making about Af-Pak strategy is on hold. Said White
House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel on Sunday: "It would be reckless to
make a decision on U.S. troop levels if in fact you haven't done a
thorough analysis of whether in fact there's an Afghan partner ready
to fill that space that U.S. troops would create and become a true
partner in governing."
Continued Emanuel, on CNN: "one of the questions is at the heart is --
and even General McChrystal's own report says -- the question does not
come how many troops you send, but do you have a credible Afghan
partner for this process that can provide the security and the type of
services that the Afghan people need?
Well, as of now the answer, at least by the White House's own
definition, is no.
So what does that mean?
One other major complication: Karzai enjoys much support among
Pashtuns from Southern and Eastern Afghanistan -- the same regions
where the Taliban has met with some recruiting success as of late.
So what now?
- jpt October 19, 2009
bademiyansubhanallah
Pak Foils Terror Attack: Taliban Leader Arrested
Karachi | Oct 19, 2009
Pakistani police today claimed to have foiled a major terror attack in
Karachi and arrested a top Taliban leader and his associates, who were
planning the assault.
"Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan's Karachi unit chief Akhtar Zaman was
arrested along with three accomplices Samiullah, Fazal Karim and
Munnawar Khan from the densely populated Sohrab Goth area of Karachi,"
city police chief Waseem Ahmed told reporters.
"The terrorists were planning for a big attack," he said, adding that
police had also recovered high explosives weighing around 75
kilograms, grenades and an anti-aircraft launcher which were supposed
to be used in the attack.
"It is a big breakthrough for us as we have been carrying out raids to
flush out Taliban activists and leaders in the city for the last few
months," Ahmed said.
He said the group was behind an attempt to attack an oil depot in
Karachi last month which was foiled after an exchange of fire. Ahmed
said the would-be bombers had been disguised as women and had worn
burkas.
The Sohrab Goth area is dominated by the Pashtuns and Afghan refugees
and is believed to be a hub of criminal and militant activities
located just outside the city.
The arrests came as thousands of Pakistani troops push a major anti-
Taliban offensive in the South Waziristan tribal area. Police in the
garrison city of Rawalpindi also claimed to have arrested some 80
people with some of them having links with militant groups.
bademiyansubhanallah
October 19, 2009
Gasp! CNN discovers the Taliban on...YouTube!!!
And also discovers that the Jawas have taken down the Taliban websites
and that the Youtube videos have also ran into some difficulty.
Oh well, I know there are other Taliban channels. I'll see if I can't
dig a few up later. But I'm pretty sure the Smackdown crew might have
a few up.
Update: If you were worried that the above indicates the Taliban are
gone from Youtube and you'd miss out on all that enemy propaganda.
Never fear the Taliban, al-Qaeda and all your fave murderous
terrorists are still available on Jihadtube.
See this playlist from the Smackdown crew.
Or any of the following users.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TalibanMujahideen
http://www.youtube.com/user/paktiamujahideen
http://www.youtube.com/user/talebjan
http://www.youtube.com/user/fallujah531
And that is just a small sample we dug up in a few minutes. I wonder
what is wrong with Youtube that they seem unable to find these things
on their own platform?
By Howie at October 19, 2009 08:44 AM | Comments (5) |
CNN Discovers that the sun is actually the center of the universe --
and get this! The earth is NOT flat as previously presumed!
Yeah - good on ya CNN - late to the party, but we're glad you showed
up.
Yesterday, 11:02:27 AM–
I'm waiting for all the credit to go to Obi-None.
Yesterday, 11:36:35 AM–
elected official in the midwest
I thought cnn meant communist news notworthy now I know it means
CLUELESS news notworthy.
Yesterday, 12:12:24 PM–
Isn't YouTube owned by Google?
Yesterday, 3:53:49 PM–
I love how the Internet continues to prove the sheer incompetence of
the traditional media.
bademiyansubhanallah
Live Video Podcasts CNN Radio
1:55/2:32Abdullah ready for runoff 2:32
Afghan presidential candidate Abdullah Abdullah is ready for a runoff
with President Hamid Karzai.
bademiyansubhanallah
Live Video Podcasts CNN Radio
0:41/3:03Second-class citizen 3:03
Around 90% of Afghan women suffer from domestic violence, CNN's Atia
Abawi meets some at a shelter.
bademiyansubhanallah
Live Video Podcasts CNN Radio
0:49/2:00Pakistan vs. Taliban 2:00
CNN's Reza Sayah reports on the Pakistani army offensive against the
Taliban in South Waziristan.
...and I am Sid Harth
bademiyansubhanallah
Live Video Podcasts CNN Radio
1:41/5:11Afghan election crisis 5:11
Sen. John Kerry speaks to CNN's John Roberts from Pakistan about the
election crisis in Afghanistan.