Why no Celtic film epics?
Michael Steven Newton
I have a silly and obvious question: Why is it that there is a total
dearth of films dealing with Celtic myth or history?? There is a
beautiful wealth of tradition and history totally untapped by the
uninnovative film industry, full of drama and adventure and tragedy.
Fantasy and historical fiction, from ancient times to modern. We
might not only consider the ancient epics such as the Ta/in Bo Cuailgne
and (stories of the) Mabinogion as fantasy films, but also accounts of
Cullodon or the the Flight of the Wild Geese (?? flight of Irish nobility)
or Grace O'Malley to find some really great stories.
(This of course glosses past the Arthurian romances which have been made
which have tended to be disappointing.)
Of course, we could make this more obvious to Hollywood by packaging
stars (ala "The Player" -- imagine a deep voice saying):
Arnold Schwarzeneggar is Balor of the Evil Eye
Meryl Streep is Queen Medb
Julia Roberts is Deirde of the Sorrows
Daniel Day Lewis is CuChulainn
Uma Thurmon is Rhiannon
Kevin Costner is Pwyll
etc.
Any agents in the audience?
mn
Rob Harrington
>
> I have a silly and obvious question: Why is it that there is a total
> dearth of films dealing with Celtic myth or history?? There is a
> beautiful wealth of tradition and history totally untapped by the
> uninnovative film industry, full of drama and adventure and tragedy.
> Fantasy and historical fiction, from ancient times to modern. We
> might not only consider the ancient epics such as the Ta/in Bo Cuailgne
> and (stories of the) Mabinogion as fantasy films, but also accounts of
> Cullodon or the the Flight of the Wild Geese (?? flight of Irish nobility)
> or Grace O'Malley to find some really great stories.
> (This of course glosses past the Arthurian romances which have been made
> which have tended to be disappointing.)
I curious to know what people thought of the book "Lion of Ireland", which
is historical fiction about Brian Boru.
It seems that would lend itself fairly well to a movie better than the
Tain...
--
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| Rob Harrington | Ball State University |
| Department of History | Muncie, Indiana, USA |
| Vax--00R...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu | Unix--...@bsu-cs.bsu.edu |
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Jo Jaquinta
>In article <C1tDs...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, ne...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>> I have a silly and obvious question: Why is it that there is a total
>> dearth of films dealing with Celtic myth or history??
>is historical fiction about Brian Boru.
O'Malley) and just finished yesterday "Red Branch" (The Ta'in).
"Granuail" was not too bad although I resented the blatant insertion
of a all knowing, all powerful Californian neo-pagan author-image some
1200 years after the pagan religions declined and 300 years before the
neo-pagan ones came about. It also dodged the tragic ending it should have had.
The life, ambitions and eventual dashed hopes of Granuail paralells the
life, ambitions and eventual dashed hopes of what amounted to Ireland's
last great struggle for self assertion. Granuail dies with the defeat
of the O'Neil and the O'Donnel. Unfortunately Morgan ends the story early
leaving a positive optamistic feeling to all those ignorant of history.
All in all, though, I found it an OK book, giving imagery and
picture to a woman I have long studied.
You would think that "Red Branch", dealing with a mythical subject,
rather than a historical one, would have a greater tolerance level.
She had the choice of many versions of the myth to choose from but, sadly,
makes radical departures from all of them. Prime bitches:
* The Morrigan is a wimp. She flies around as a crow, commenting on
the curvature of the earth, oxygen depravation and falls in love with
Cu Cullain! She actually tried to prevent his death!
* Maeve is a wimp. She is denegrated to the role of a modern,
stuck-up, Jewish-American-Princess (no insult intended to Jews,
Americans, or Princesses, I refer to the stereotype). Maeve was a bitch.
A royal bitch. She fought herself and is attributed to one of Cethren's
mighty wounds. I don't recognise the loud idiot prevalent in the book.
* Skya, one of the only two women who fight in the book is
stripped of her sex. She is flat-chested, and has muscles just like a
man.
I find it unusual that she can portray a strong, dynamic, woman
such as Granuail as a mixture of the positive aspects of the modernly
divided male and female yet in this book she cannot effecate the same.
So much for her woman...
* She uses Sheila-na-gigs which is late medieval.
* She uses Celtic knotwork which is early medieval.
* Cu Cullain doesn't kill anyone except in battle. His entry to
the boy's troop's hurley match is sanitised and he mearly breaks Conal's
jaw.
* He isn't nearly as arrogant and obnoxious as he should be.
* He's OLD. He's at least 27 by the time he dies. His beardlessness
is never explained. She constrains herself to trying to make modern sense
of the myth. In the myth he fathers a child at age 7 and hills him when
he is 16, dieing at 17. She stretches this out persumably to make it more
"realistic".
He takes up arms on the day to live a short life filled with
glory. At 27 he would be an old-man!
The climax of the book occurs about 5 chapters before it ends.
The cattle raid is the natural climax. Unfortunately Cu Cullain doesn't
die in the raid (which is true to the myth). Ulster wins though (they
didn't in the myth). She then marks time so Cu Cullain's son can grow
up enough to die, then kills Cu Cullain off fairly tersely.
All in all I was rather dissatisfied with the book. I much
prefered Kinsella's direct translation. It got a bit boring in the
middle as Cu Cullain kills hero after hero but it, at least, had the
grandeur and majesty of myth.
Jo Grant
_______________________________________________________________________________
Jo Grant | "Love is blind, or so it seems, to make me
jay...@maths.tcd.ie | offer you my dreams. But after all is said and
44 Bancroft Ave., Tallaght, | done, a blind man's dreams are not much fun."
Dublin 24, IRELAND | -- Horslips, "The Blind Can't Lead the Blind"
Dennis McMamara
>>
>> I have a silly and obvious question: Why is it that there is a total
>> dearth of films dealing with Celtic myth or history?? There is a
>> beautiful wealth of tradition and history totally untapped by the
>> uninnovative film industry, full of drama and adventure and tragedy.
>> Fantasy and historical fiction, from ancient times to modern. We
>> might not only consider the ancient epics such as the Ta/in Bo Cuailgne
>
>is historical fiction about Brian Boru.
>
>It seems that would lend itself fairly well to a movie better than the
>Tain...
>
>--
>/---------------------------------------v-------------------------------------\
>| Rob Harrington | Ball State University |
>| Department of History | Muncie, Indiana, USA |
>| Vax--00R...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu | Unix--...@bsu-cs.bsu.edu |
>>---------------------------------------^-------------------------------------<
>| Ball State University - University Democrats |
>| Not a spokesperson - REPEAT - Not a spokesperson |
>\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Ireland was good. RB deals with the life of Cuchaillain ( sp?) as well as
Dierdre, etc. It's one of those books I wish I hadn't read yet, so I could
read it again for the first time.
She develops the story with almost a Greek sense of the inevitability of
tragedy, though Cuchaillain does not show hubris.
I think it would make a great movie.
The absence of films about great Irish heros might be for the lack of
Irish-people who could play them with a straight face. I could imagine a
wisecracking Irish hero though.
--
Dennis McNamara dmcn...@netcom.com
Purveyor of Fine Software: Composer's WorkBench
Michael Helm
>>Michael Steven Newton writes:
>>> I have a silly and obvious question: Why is it that there is a total
>>> dearth of films dealing with Celtic myth or history?? There is a
This is not a silly question at all! I've had the same conversation
as this thread -- I swear it -- with folks locally here (who are
undoubtedly reading this too). Some of it has to be ascribed to
ignorance, the stories of the Irish or broader "Celtic" community
aren't known as well by the general populace any more. Another
consideration is that they do not seem exotic enuf or maybe seem too
Euro-centric, so they don't attract the likes of the people who
did the "Mahabharata". But I think that the primary reason has
to lie in the culture of the present Celtic countries. They are
all small, & none are rich, so the resources available are limited.
Ireland, at least from my small exposure to its film culture thru
the local film society, seems to mainly produce "social realism"
films. In other words, take your Halcion before going to the
theater. It just doesn't appear like the film culture of Ireland
is interested in producing an epic or a historical drama. Now
contrast this with Iceland, a very very small country, where a
series of historical films (not based on any particular saga
or tale but just the milieu) have been done.
The only Irish - produced historical drama I have ever heard of
was "1798" or "The Year of the French" or whatever that RTE
tv show was called. It was never shown here in the USA.
There have been 2 TV shows on 19th century Irish themes that
I've seen but both were British productions I think. One was
the series based on Sommerville & Ross stories, & the other the
dreadful Parnell & Mrs O Shea from last year. Both were done from
a British point of view.
>>> beautiful wealth of tradition and history totally untapped by the
There's all kinds of stuff in there, including plenty of tragedy
for the grim fans of social realism. The real story of the 19th
century emigration has never been done either -- it would be something
very far & away from the awful "Far & Away".
>Myself, I enjoyed L. MOrgan's later book *Red Branch* more, though Lion of
>Ireland was good. RB deals with the life of Cuchaillain ( sp?) as well as
I read a new one of hers recently that I liked. I think the title
is something like "The Last King of Ireland" (maybe that's "Prince").
It is basically the story of Owen Roe O'Sullivan & his long march
after Kinsale & subsequent events. Very cinematic. I'm not a real
fan of Ms Llewellyn's, she's not a great writer in my opinion, but
this was a real page turner.
> The absence of films about great Irish heros might be for the lack of
>Irish-people who could play them with a straight face. I could imagine a
>wisecracking Irish hero though.
Yes!
cab...@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
> Well, for one, Conan the Barbarian was based on the old Celtic stories.
Pretty mangled up versions of them, yes, but ... say, he did
spend a lot of time hanging around with a female pirate, didn't he?
Archer Sully writes:
>The motto of the magazine _Film Threat_: "If you don't like the movies,
>make your own!"
Kubilay Akleman
>In article <1993Feb4.185456.14551@bsu-ucs> 00rdha...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Rob Harrington) writes:
>>In article <C1tDs...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, ne...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>>>
>>> I have a silly and obvious question: Why is it that there is a total
>>> dearth of films dealing with Celtic myth or history?? There is a
>>> beautiful wealth of tradition and history totally untapped by the
>>> uninnovative film industry, full of drama and adventure and tragedy.
>>> Fantasy and historical fiction, from ancient times to modern. We
>>> might not only consider the ancient epics such as the Ta/in Bo Cuailgne
I once read a book called "The Hounds of the Mo/rri/gan" by Pat O'Shea.
It was great as a childrens' book, and it incorporated lots of Celtic
mythological characters (such as Maeve and Ailill, Cu/ Chulain, Macha, Bodhbh
and the Dagda) and introduces them in a way thaty would appeal to children
(of all ages!).
I think it would make a classic childrens' film.
Andrew
Peter Corless
a movie script! Like about 10 seconds ago... Talk about synchronicity!
I think it'd be a great story. The problem is, you'd need major capital
to fund the battle scenes. Also, American folks would have problems with the
names. They like heros with easily-spelled and pronounced names like "Jake."
;-)
Seriously, I'm working on another script idea now, but I was going to do one
on the famous Irish epic next. It'll probably take me years to get to
though... ("Sigh! So much to write, so little time!")
BTW: Who do you think would make a great Medb? How about Cu/chulainn?
-Peter.
-------------------------------------------------------
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Cisco Customer Service
US Federal Business Representative
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fax: (415) 903-8080 direct: (415) 903-8723
Rob Harrington
>
> Seriously, I'm working on another script idea now, but I was going to do one
> on the famous Irish epic next. It'll probably take me years to get to
> though... ("Sigh! So much to write, so little time!")
>
> BTW: Who do you think would make a great Medb? How about Cu/chulainn?
>
> -Peter.
Well it depends on what age you'd have him... if you go by the legend you'd
have to get a really young kid to play him... but if you go by the Llewwynn(?)
book I might suggest someone like Daniel Day Lewis... he played a nice
Hawkeye in "Last of the Mohicans".... Also how about Sean Connery as Conor?
Dennis McMamara
>In article <1la55m...@roche.csl.sri.com>, pcor...@cisco.com (Peter Corless) writes:
>> BTW: Who do you think would make a great Medb? How about Cu/chulainn?
>>
>> -Peter.
>
>Well it depends on what age you'd have him... if you go by the legend you'd
>have to get a really young kid to play him... but if you go by the Llewwynn(?)
>book I might suggest someone like Daniel Day Lewis... he played a nice
>Hawkeye in "Last of the Mohicans".... Also how about Sean Connery as Conor?
>
The direcotor of "My Left Foot" ( name?) was on Charley Rose on American
PBS recently. He said they are looking at making a film in the epic mode
about the 1916 Dublin 'Rising'. Pearce, Connoly, et al, with perhaps
special emphasis on Michael Collins.
He described it to Rose as " a group of poets and scholars that rose up
against the might of the British Empire, and lost. But in their losing,
they won."
That's a film I would go see.
Michael Steven Newton
>The direcotor of "My Left Foot" ( name?) was on Charley Rose on American
>PBS recently. He said they are looking at making a film in the epic mode
>about the 1916 Dublin 'Rising'. Pearce, Connoly, et al, with perhaps
>special emphasis on Michael Collins.
>He described it to Rose as " a group of poets and scholars that rose up
>against the might of the British Empire, and lost. But in their losing,
>they won."
Yeah, that sounds like a good start!
Great, maybe morphic resonance works after all.
mn
Lady Johanna Constantine
>In article <1993Feb12.140420.15025@bsu-ucs> 00rdha...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Rob Harrington) writes:
>>In article <1la55m...@roche.csl.sri.com>, pcor...@cisco.com (Peter Corless) writes:
>>> BTW: Who do you think would make a great Medb? How about Cu/chulainn?
>>>
>>> -Peter.
>>
>>Well it depends on what age you'd have him... if you go by the legend you'd
>>have to get a really young kid to play him... but if you go by the Llewwynn(?)
>>book I might suggest someone like Daniel Day Lewis... he played a nice
>>Hawkeye in "Last of the Mohicans".... Also how about Sean Connery as Conor?
>>
>Anyone but Kevin Costner, for either part.
>The direcotor of "My Left Foot" ( name?) was on Charley Rose on American
>PBS recently. He said they are looking at making a film in the epic mode
>about the 1916 Dublin 'Rising'. Pearce, Connoly, et al, with perhaps
>special emphasis on Michael Collins.
>He described it to Rose as " a group of poets and scholars that rose up
>against the might of the British Empire, and lost. But in their losing,
>they won."
Didn't he also direct thef ilm version of "The Field"? I saw this in
Madrid last year, and haven't seen it since, but it struck me as very
powerful.
LJC
--
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