Charter for soc.culture.bengali
Kaberi Chakrabarty
Indranil DasGupta <dgu...@buphy.bu.edu> wrote:
>
>Anyway, all those who feel that scb is deviating from the charter
>should consider posting on one of those never touched things like
>bengali painting or history of bengal.
>
The problem is, as it is on all the newsgroups, that when occasionally people
do post about these or a variety of other topics that might be closer to the
spirit of the charter, they are frequently met with relative silence, particu-
larly from the regular contributors of the newsgroup, which is discouraging
and does not exactly promote articles of a similar nature. If, in any
conversation, someone speaks once in a while and finds people apparently
ignoring him, those people cannot then complain of the lack of variety in their
discussions. People talk about what they wish to talk about; topics that do
not interest the general population do not get much coverage, and it does very
little good to later say, "But we said we would talk about all these things,
why is no one talking about them?"
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Indranil DasGupta
: >
: The problem is, as it is on all the newsgroups, that when occasionally people
: do post about these or a variety of other topics that might be closer to the
: spirit of the charter, they are frequently met with relative silence, particu-
: larly from the regular contributors of the newsgroup, which is discouraging
: and does not exactly promote articles of a similar nature. If, in any
: conversation, someone speaks once in a while and finds people apparently
: ignoring him, those people cannot then complain of the lack of variety in their
: discussions. People talk about what they wish to talk about; topics that do
: not interest the general population do not get much coverage, and it does very
: little good to later say, "But we said we would talk about all these things,
: why is no one talking about them?"
No one is complaining about lack of variety. As I mentioned, despite
turning out to be quite different from what its charter would make you
think it is, a lot of netters are secretly quite pleased with scb.
I do not mourn the lack of variety, but at the same time I welcome
threads that would do justice to scb's charter. And I never said `why
is no one talking about them'? As far as I remember no one else said
that either.
I also think that there is nothing sinister or intentional about regular
posters ignoring a `different' kind of thread. It's just their
constitution. That shouldn't prevent newcomers from voicing their
opinions. Today's newcomers are tomorrow's regulars.
Indranil.
Joydeep Bhattacharya
>
>In article <4e93st$b...@news.bu.edu>,
>Indranil DasGupta <dgu...@buphy.bu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Anyway, all those who feel that scb is deviating from the charter
>>should consider posting on one of those never touched things like
>>bengali painting or history of bengal.
>>
people
>do post about these or a variety of other topics that might be closer to
the
>spirit of the charter, they are frequently met with relative silence,
particu-
>larly from the regular contributors of the newsgroup, which is
discouraging
>and does not exactly promote articles of a similar nature. If, in any
>conversation, someone speaks once in a while and finds people apparently
>ignoring him, those people cannot then complain of the lack of variety
in their
>discussions. People talk about what they wish to talk about; topics that
do
>not interest the general population do not get much coverage, and it
does very
>little good to later say, "But we said we would talk about all these
things,
>why is no one talking about them?"
>
Ekhane koyekta byapar ache. Prothomoto banglar itihash ba kola shilpo
niye bistor alochona korte oneik gyan ebong bistor poDashuno lage; shey
gyan orjon korar jonye je shomoi ta lage, sheta hoito shob netok dite
pare na. Amar mote, jaNder ei bishoi guli'r opor gyan ache, taNra
informative kichu article ei charter-neglected topic guli'r opor likhuk.
Amra poDe gyan orjon korbo. Silence maane ei noi je keu poDche na.
Silence maane etao to hote pare je shob netok der oi bishoiti'r opor
lekha'r kichu nei. Oneik shomoi etao dekhechi je keu-keu ekta bishoi'er
opor "last word" ba ekta khub khaNti kotha bole. Tarpor theke shei
alochona ta kemon jeno thinthiye jaye. Shei dhoroner silence banchoniyo.
Charter'er byapar aami jani na; tobe eta odbhut lage je SCB'te emon oneik
topic niye alochona hoye jeta SCB'r songe kono-bhabe kono shomporko nei.
Goto teen masher lekha gulo podun; dekhben computer programming and
architecture, post-modernism, commune toiri, ... niye prai teensho lekha
dekhben. Ek kale SCB te shundor chora, chotobelakar smreeti, second
generation bangali der problem, kolkata'r so-called odhopoton, gram
bangla'r khobor, natok, kobita, epar-opar etc koto shundor-shundor jinish
alochito hoto. Aajkal shey gulo bondho hoye geche. Shetai dukkher kotha.
-Joydeep
================================================================
Joydeep Bhattacharya
Department of Economics
Cornell University
Ithaca NY 14853-7601
Phone (607) 256 2310
Fax (607) 255 2818
E-mail: jb...@cornell.edu
====================================================
Kaberi Chakrabarty
Joydeep Bhattacharya <jb...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>Ekhane koyekta byapar ache. Prothomoto banglar itihash ba kola shilpo
>niye bistor alochona korte oneik gyan ebong bistor poDashuno lage; shey
>gyan orjon korar jonye je shomoi ta lage, sheta hoito shob netok dite
>pare na. Amar mote, jaNder ei bishoi guli'r opor gyan ache, taNra
>informative kichu article ei charter-neglected topic guli'r opor likhuk.
>Amra poDe gyan orjon korbo. Silence maane ei noi je keu poDche na.
>Silence maane etao to hote pare je shob netok der oi bishoiti'r opor
>lekha'r kichu nei. Oneik shomoi etao dekhechi je keu-keu ekta bishoi'er
>opor "last word" ba ekta khub khaNti kotha bole. Tarpor theke shei
>alochona ta kemon jeno thinthiye jaye. Shei dhoroner silence banchoniyo.
>Charter'er byapar aami jani na; tobe eta odbhut lage je SCB'te emon oneik
>topic niye alochona hoye jeta SCB'r songe kono-bhabe kono shomporko nei.
>Goto teen masher lekha gulo podun; dekhben computer programming and
>architecture, post-modernism, commune toiri, ... niye prai teensho lekha
>dekhben. Ek kale SCB te shundor chora, chotobelakar smreeti, second
>generation bangali der problem, kolkata'r so-called odhopoton, gram
>bangla'r khobor, natok, kobita, epar-opar etc koto shundor-shundor jinish
>alochito hoto. Aajkal shey gulo bondho hoye geche. Shetai dukkher kotha.
You almost lost me in the first few lines because there were so many words I'm
not familiar with, but then I scanned down and found the bottom, so I could
hardly avoid responding. In general I agree with you. Actually I don't mind
so much the tangential issues like postmodernism, etc. That is the nature of
adda, right? But I do agree that the issues presented at the end of your
article are almost always pleasant to see. I do know for a fact that the Young
Whippersnapper thing has become a problem, that several Young Whippersnappers
have told me that they started reading the group, and perhaps continue to
read it, but become intimidated by the obvious presence of Old Fogey regulars,
the writing in Bentgali which can be terribly difficult to follow, and they end
up concluding htat this group is not interested in their opinions. Personally,
I dislike appearing to be one of very few YW presences on the group, but I have
been unsuccessful in getting others to post. That is indeed "dukkher kotha."
Joydeep Bhattacharya
Kaberi di:
Sorry for the long piece in Bengali. Sometimes I get this strong
uncontrollable desire to write in relatively pure untainted Bengali.
Actually living in the US, one realizes that only Indians speak/write in
more than one language at the same time (khichudi bhasha). That fact
strikes you much more if you happen to hang out with non-English speaking
Europeans.
Personally I do feel it is easier to read a piece written in English. But
sometimes the whole "adda amej" (ambience) can only be created in
Bengali. Some of the Bengali words that contribute to this "amej" can
never be adequately translated.
About this whole regulars-newcomers divide: I have always felt that if
"newcomers" said something sensible, original and thought-provoking, it
was always welcomed and the general topic was discussed to death. What
"regulars" do not like are posts which go like: " hey I am new to scb; so
whats cookin in good ol'e Calcutta?" And for good reason!
Finally, I dont think I wrote anything of any importance in my original
post. If anyone disagrees, I will post an English translation, time
permitting. :-)
Regards.
-Joydeep
sayan bhattacharyya
Kaberi Chakrabarty <kab...@marist.chi.il.us> wrote:
>I do know for a fact that the Young
>Whippersnapper thing has become a problem, that several Young Whippersnappers
>have told me that they started reading the group, and perhaps continue to
>read it, but become intimidated by the obvious presence of Old Fogey regulars,
>the writing in Bentgali which can be terribly difficult to follow, and they end
>up concluding htat this group is not interested in their opinions.
Yes, there does seem to be a communication gap somewhere (although I will
argue that reading the bengali stuff would actually be beneficial to the
Generation II-ers, at least for those who want to brush up their Bengali).
Anyway, it is a pity that Generation II-ers feel neglected and let down
by s.c.b. Part of the problem may be that the Indian-Bengalis do not
understand the American-Bengali psyche very much. At least I have to
confess that I know very few American-Bengalis and don't really know
what kind of people they are. So here a few questions for the Generation II
lurkers on this group -- perhaps they will fill me in.
1) What are the politics of the Generation II-ers? Do they usually
tend to be progressive? Or conservative? Do they usually vote
democrat or republican?
My own feeling would be that they would tend to be progressive,
given their minority status in this country and their third world
origins. But then the expatriate community in this country is supposed
to be very rich and affluent, and the rich usually tend to support
conservatives. So I really don't know where their political loyalties
lie, and would wish to know.
2) On racial issues, how do Generation II-ers identify? As minorities,
do they tend to identify themselves with African-americans? Or as
successful and mainstream professionals (or sons and daughters of
the same) , do they tend to identify with whites more?
3) On the above two questions, do Bengali-Americans follow the same
trends as other Indian-Americans, or do they have special characteristics
of their own?
I am well aware that each individual is different and it is very hard
to generalize, but still I was curious as to if there were any broad
trends here.
-Sayan.
Kaberi Chakrabarty
sayan bhattacharyya <bhat...@heron.eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
> My own feeling would be that they would tend to be progressive,
> given their minority status in this country and their third world
> origins. But then the expatriate community in this country is supposed
> to be very rich and affluent, and the rich usually tend to support
> conservatives. So I really don't know where their political loyalties
> lie, and would wish to know.
>
>2) On racial issues, how do Generation II-ers identify? As minorities,
> do they tend to identify themselves with African-americans? Or as
> successful and mainstream professionals (or sons and daughters of
> the same) , do they tend to identify with whites more?
>
>3) On the above two questions, do Bengali-Americans follow the same
> trends as other Indian-Americans, or do they have special characteristics
> of their own?
>
>I am well aware that each individual is different and it is very hard
>to generalize, but still I was curious as to if there were any broad
>trends here.
>
>-Sayan.
>
>
On questions 1 and 2, for the moment I will say only that you are right that
there is a great deal of variety and that no one can speak for all.
Having said that, I do have plans for writing a article that answers these
questions to some degree, entitled "What is a Young Whippersnapper?"
On question 3, I think it is safer to say that in general, many of us think of
ourselves as Indian-Americans first and Bengali-Americans second, particularly
when it comes to issues that deal with relations with the non-Indian-American
community.