Just back from Tallinn
Eugene Holman
There I bought a book that symbolizes what has taken place in the Baltics
during the past dozen years.
It is *Eesti slängi sõnaraamat*, "A Dictionary of Estonian Slang". It
advertizes itself as something beyond the first slang dictionary of
Estonian, published by Dr. Mai Loog a decade ago. Since then, the entire
framework for Estonian slang has changed. American English as a source for
slang is "in", Russian and Finnish are "out".
And this, after all we (the Finns) have done for Estonia!.
Best,
Eugene Holman
Uno Hu
hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote in message news:<holman-1501...@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi>...
> I spent the quality part of today in Tallinn.
What's that, hole-man, 1-4am?
> There I bought a book that symbolizes what has taken place in the Baltics
> during the past dozen years.
'Lies and the Lieing Russkie Liars That Tell Them'?
> It is *Eesti slängi sõnaraamat*, "A Dictionary of Estonian Slang". It
> advertizes itself as something beyond the first slang dictionary of
> Estonian, published by Dr. Mai Loog a decade ago. Since then, the entire
> framework for Estonian slang has changed. American English as a source for
> slang is "in", Russian and Finnish are "out".
>
> And this, after all we (the Finns) have done for Estonia!.
> Eugene Holman
Good joke, hole-man.
Uno Hu
Eugene Holman
lora...@cs.com (Uno Hu) wrote:
> Eugene Holman
> hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote in message
news:<holman-1501...@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi>...
> > I spent the quality part of today in Tallinn.
>
> What's that, hole-man, 1-4am?
That, too, that, too :-)
> > There I bought a book that symbolizes what has taken place in the Baltics
> > during the past dozen years.
>
> 'Lies and the Lieing Russkie Liars That Tell Them'?
^^
That should be 'lying', nejęga.
>
> > It is *Eesti slängi sőnaraamat*, "A Dictionary of Estonian Slang". It
> > advertizes itself as something beyond the first slang dictionary of
> > Estonian, published by Dr. Mai Loog a decade ago. Since then, the entire
> > framework for Estonian slang has changed. American English as a source for
> > slang is "in", Russian and Finnish are "out".
> >
> > And this, after all we (the Finns) have done for Estonia!.
> > Eugene Holman
>
> Good joke, hole-man.
The only *bad* joke around here is you and your spelling, nejęga.
EH/
Leszek Deska
> I spent the quality part of today in Tallinn.
I've heard that Finns often go tfor weekend to Baltic States, espacially
to Estonia - it's true? (I saw it on Discovery Travel channel).
Probably I will go to the Baltic States in summer - my parents live
close to Gdańsk, so to travel to Lithuania by car it's ust few hours for
me. I would like to see for sure Wilno (is it written Vilnus in
Lithuanian?) because of it's also Polish history, but what do you think
we should see also?
Please write what do you think is the most interesting in your country
(I might travel only to Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia and I'll
travelling by car). For me most interesting things are those related to
the history, but for my wife I think nature is more important - please
write about both subjects...
--
Pozdrawiam
Leszek Deska
http://www.ldeska.com/
Eugene Holman
> Eugene Holman wrote:
> > I spent the quality part of today in Tallinn.
> > And this, after all we (the Finns) have done for Estonia!.
> [...]
> I've heard that Finns often go tfor weekend to Baltic States, espacially
> to Estonia - it's true?
Yes, More than 60% of the tourists who visit Estonia are Finns. Although
the weekend trips are popular, many people prefer to take day-trips.
Tallinn is becoming a suburb of Helsinki, and many people in Helsinki go
there to shop and enjoy the excellent restaurants at prices that are about
half to a third of what they are here.
Now, during the winter season, triops from Helsinki to Tallinn are almost free.
I visited Tallinn on business last Friday. That time I took a normal day
trip. The cost was 15 euros for the round trip on the *Nordlandia* (Eckerö
Line). The ship leaves Helsinki at 8:00 in the morning, arrives in Tallinn
at 11:30, leaves Tallinn at 18:00, retrning to Helsinki at 21:30. That
leaves plenty of time to do business, shop, or do sightseeing.
My most recent trip, made for the purpose of cashing in on some of the
January sales in Tallinn that I did not have time to check out last Friday
and having my hair cut (2 euros in Tallinn vs. 15 to 20 euros in
Helsinki), was an even better bargain. The cost was 10 euros on the
brand-new Tallin *Romantika*, and included a cabin with bathroom, shower,
and bed all to myself. The ship leaves Helsinki at 18:45 and arrives at
Tallinn at 22:15. People who want to disembark can, but there are a night
club, discoteque, pub, dance restaurant, and all night snack bar on board
for those who opt to spend the night on board. From 8:00 to 11:00 the next
morning passengers can leave the ship and spend time shopping or
sightseeing in Tallinn. The *Romantika* leaves Tallinn at 13:30, returning
to Helsinki at 17:00.
During the summer prices on the Helsinki-Tallin route are more expensive,
but there are more options as well. The most expensive option, starting 49
euros each way, is to take the helicopter (Copterline). The trip takes a
mere 18 minutes and is quite an experience. Otherwise several companies
operate hydrofoils and catamarans. I usually use Linda Line. Their
round-trip ticket is 30 euros, the trip takes 90 minutes each way, and
they use special, small harbors in both Tallinn and Helsinki that can
handle the border formalities with minimum fuss in a few minutes. Eckerö
Line charges 20 euros for the day trip during the summer and on winter
weekends.
> (I saw it on Discovery Travel channel).
> Probably I will go to the Baltic States in summer - my parents live
> close to Gdańsk, so to travel to Lithuania by car it's ust few hours for
> me. I would like to see for sure Wilno (is it written Vilnus in
> Lithuanian?) because of it's also Polish history, but what do you think
> we should see also?
Vilnius is a thriving and charming city that is growing very fast. Closer
to Gdansk and every bit as attractive and intresting as Vilnius is Kaunas,
the most Lithuanian city in Lithuania.
> Please write what do you think is the most interesting in your country
> (I might travel only to Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia and I'll
> travelling by car). For me most interesting things are those related to
> the history, but for my wife I think nature is more important - please
> write about both subjects...
If you are thinking of driving northwards, visit Riga, the only megapolis
in the Baltics. Riga, with its medieval center, blocj after block of
Jugend architecture, elegant bridges, incredible retaurants ("Lido on the
shore", has to be seen and experenced to believed) and fascinating
museums, is one of the great European cities. If you keep driving
northward visit Pärnu, a charming spa and resort town, as well as Tallinn,
a city with a large and well preserved medieval center with its walls and
towers (it looks somewhat like the center of Gdansk, although it is better
preserved). Tartu, Estonia's charming university city is worth a visit,
even if it is somewhat out of the way. Having gone as far as Tallinn, you
might want to take a trip to Helsinki, a far newer city than any of those
in the Baltics, but not without its charms, even if the price level is far
higher than anything in the Baltics or Poland. For details about these
cities check out the *In your Pocket* series at
http://www.inyourpocket.com/ .
Have a nice trip,
Eugene Holman
mindas
> I would like to see for sure Wilno (is it written Vilnus in
> Lithuanian?) because of it's also Polish history, but what do you think
> we should see also?
Check out the
http://www.lietuva.lt/IMI/i_pl.jsp?nr=Lietuva
(this site has Polish translation) and pick the place you would like to see.
> <..> For me most interesting things are those related to
> the history, but for my wife I think nature is more important - please
> write about both subjects...
Nature. I'd say Neringa is the must (It's on the Curronian lagoon). The
price for entering this place is a bit costy: ~40Lt just for the ferry and
taxes, but, believe me, it's worth it. You may stay in the camping
(www.kempingas.lt), hostel, flat or wherever you like there. Stay in Nida
at least for a couple of days, and you will not forget this place. Ever saw
the seaside without any people? Just rent a bike and go north for a couple
of kilometers. This place is really really awesome and not overcrowded
(yet). You can expect more people to come there on weekends, so do the
reservations before if you plan to come there on Friday or Saturday.
For more details, check out the http://www.neringainfo.lt/.
If you'd like to be among masses, go to Palanga. But nowadways this is a
low-end currort, like Mallorca for germans, etc.
History. If you like history stuff, i'd suggest you to check out the museums
of Kaunas or Vilnius and pick for yourself (i.e. War museum in Kaunas could
be interesting), but the most interesting places could be Kernave
(http://www.travel-lithuania.com/kernave/) or Trakai
(http://www.trakai.lt/). If you are not planning to go to Kaunas, just to
drive nearby, take a look at the IX fort
(http://www.muziejai.lt/Kaunas/forto_muziejus.htm). It is not so shocking
as Oswiecim (Birkenau), but worth a look if you like to visit such a
places.
Feel free to ask if you need any other info :)
m.
J. Anderson
"Eugene Holman" <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> skrev i meddelandet
news:holman-1601...@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
Or is it the other way around? It will be, one day, trust me.
> > Probably I will go to the Baltic States in summer - my parents live
> > close to Gdańsk, so to travel to Lithuania by car it's ust few hours
for
> > me. I would like to see for sure Wilno (is it written Vilnus in
> > Lithuanian?) because of it's also Polish history, but what do you
think
> > we should see also?
>
> Vilnius is a thriving and charming city that is growing very fast.
Closer
> to Gdansk and every bit as attractive and intresting as Vilnius is
Kaunas,
> the most Lithuanian city in Lithuania.
Kaunas is the most Lithuanian of the two cities Kaunas and Vilnius, but I
wouldn't call it the most Lithuanian city in Lithuania.
Basically, Eugene's suggestions are good, however. On the way to Lithuania
from Gdansk, I would recommend a visit at the Wolfsschantze (or what's left
of it) - Hitler's wartime headquarters a few km northeast of Ketrzyn. This
is also where the Masurian lake district begins, one of the most beautiful
parts of Poland. Then continue to Augustów and take road 16 to the border
crossing (Poland-Lithuania) at Ogrodniki. Before passing the border, make a
short detour to Sejny, the 'most Lithuanian town in Poland'!
Cross the border and then turn southeast at Lazdijai (Lozdzieje in Polish)
and continue to Druskininkai. Take a look at this famous spa centre. After
that, take road A 4 to Vilnius. At Grutas, 7 km from Druskininkai, visit the
morbid park with all the communist era statues! An extraordinary experience
that should make us all thankful for not needing to see the exhibits in
their original places any longer...
Before driving into Vilnius, make a detour to Trakai and see one of the
most beautiful water castles in all of Europe. Spend at least three days in
Wilno, the old capital of the Polish-Lithuanian... excuse me, I mean:
Lithuanian-Polish Rzeczpospolita. This is where Pilsudski's heart is buried.
Afterwards, why not drive up to Daugavpils in Latvia, a place that used to
belong to Poland and still has some Polish-speaking inhabitants. That would
make Peeteris Cedrins (one of our regulars) happy. He's a keen supporter of
multi-ethnic municipalities...
Then follow the riverside road down to Riga, which is a must in any
civilized European's experience list. Don't forget to go to the seaside
resort of Juurmala (16 kms of beach) before heading south again (Unless
you're going to include Estonia as well. If you do, drive north via Tartu to
Tallinn, and then back via Pärnu.)
Return to Poland using the following itinerary:
Riga-Bauska, near Bauska see the Rundaale Palace
Bauska-Jelgava, in Jelgava another Palace by Rastrelli
Jelgava-Siauliai, with the Hill of Crosses
Siauliai-Palanga, with the Amber Museum
Palanga-Klaipeda, take a trip to Neringa (Couronian Spit)
Klaipeda-Kaunas, see the '9th Fort' and the old town
That should give you a fairly broad impression of the Baltics!
It's a pity that my new little book about the Via Baltica highway is only
in Finnish. It's being sold now at the Helsinki International Travel Fair,
btw.
John
Leszek Deska
> In article <40080B47...@yahoo.com>, Leszek Deska <lde...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Eugene Holman wrote:
>>>I spent the quality part of today in Tallinn.
>>>And this, after all we (the Finns) have done for Estonia!.
> January sales in Tallinn that I did not have time to check out last Friday
> and having my hair cut (2 euros in Tallinn vs. 15 to 20 euros in
> Helsinki), was an even better bargain. The cost was 10 euros on the
One thing about hair cut - I came from Lebork, little city in north of
Poland - imagine that air cut there costs slightly above 1,25 euro. In
Warszawa - the same thing (in small barber shop) costs 6,5-8,5 euro. So,
each time we see our parents I'm taking a hair cut - that's why we have
to go to our parents each 6 weeks :^)
[...]
> Have a nice trip,
> Eugene Holman
Thanks you all for your opinions - any more are welcome!
Dmitry
> civilized European's experience list. Don't forget to go to the seaside
> resort of Juurmala (16 kms of beach) before heading south again
Reminds me, I'm going there in few months time. I will be having fun
driving my parent's old Moskvich412 to Melnsils, heading north-west.
The road from Riga to Jurmala is fine, after that it gets more and
more adventurous. The type of vehicle doesn't help either. The
distance is only about 160km, but it takes 4+ hours to get there.
Nevertheless, it's worth an effort, Kurzeme is beautiful place (in my
opinion).
«Pas de deux»
If you are not planning to go to Kaunas, just to drive nearby, take a look at the IX fort
> (http://www.muziejai.lt/Kaunas/forto_muziejus.htm). It is not so shocking
> as Oswiecim (Birkenau), but worth a look if you like to visit such a places.
Why are you recommending that ugly place to tourists? It is an ugly eyesore and should be demolished. Besides, you should be encouraging tourists to visit Lithuanian cultural sites, not a monument to German interference in Lithuania's internal affairs. Next you'll be telling people to go and look at Ignalina nuclear power plant....
GK
J. Anderson
"Dmitry" <dmitry....@ntlworld.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:aadbc421.04011...@posting.google.com...
I've driven that road along the coast. It wasn't that bad, although this
was nearly ten years ago - maybe it has deteriorated. It's a pity that you
can't enjoy the seascape though; there is always a couple of hundred metres
between the road and the beach.
We stayed at the (then) new hotel in Roja and continued (via Melnsils!) to
Kolkasrags the next day. That's where the not so good road started... We
picked up an old lady who had just missed the bus. She was so relieved that
she had to weep a little - she would have had to walk 14 kms, because it was
the last bus that day. It's great when a little gesture turns out to be
really valuable!
We drove through the Sliiteres rezervaats to Mazirbe, where we met a few
of the last surviving Livs. Then back via Talsi and Tukums.
You're right: Kurzeme has a lot to offer. I've also driven up from Palanga
to Liepaaja and Ventspils, but unfortunaterly I've missed much of the
interior. I'd like to go to Kuldiga, for instance.
John
J. Anderson
"«Pas de deux»" <kamou...@sympatico.ca> skrev i meddelandet
news:_o%Nb.2406$XZ.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Reply:
Hmmm, I'll have to disagree a bit. If we would disregard all remnants of
foreign interference in our internal affairs throughout history, I'm afraid
there would be little left to show...
John
Eugene Holman
=?windows-1257?Q?=ABPas_de_deux=BB?= <kamou...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> "mindas" <mindas...@ziedas.ktu.lt> wrote in message =
> news:bu9auv$fbjp2$1...@ID-205304.news.uni-berlin.de...
> If you are not planning to go to Kaunas, just to drive nearby, take a =
> look at the IX fort
> > (http://www.muziejai.lt/Kaunas/forto_muziejus.htm). It is not so =
> shocking
> > as Oswiecim (Birkenau), but worth a look if you like to visit such a =
> places.
>
> Why are you recommending that ugly place to tourists? It is an ugly =
> eyesore and should be demolished.
It's part of Lithuanian history, regrettably, and should not be hidden.
> Besides, you should be encouraging =
> tourists to visit Lithuanian cultural sites, not a monument to German =
> interference in Lithuania's internal affairs.
Russian, Soviet and German interference in Lithuania's internal affairs
defined the parameters in which the nation's history evolved for most of
the 20th century. Were it not for that interference, you would hardly have
spent your childhood in Australia, be posting from Canada, or discussing
Baltic issues with us here so enjoyably in English.
> Next you'll be telling people to go and look at Ignalina nuclear power
plant....
Since Lithuania is being pressured into decommissioning the Ignalina
nuclear power plant, a fact-finding mission to that one-industry,
Russian-speaking town might be a unique and fascinating experience
Regards,
Eugene Holman
mindas
> Why are you recommending that ugly place to tourists?
You must have been missed my words "if you like to visit such a places".
> Next you'll be telling
> people to go and look at Ignalina nuclear power plant....
Colleagues of mine were used to visit Kruonis hydro-electric power plant
couple of weeks ago. And the photos of this place were astonishing.
Enormously big pipes (for water), artificial reservoir for keeping the
water and many other things. Worth to be seen. Well, I admit this may not
be interesting for everybody, but since I'm a techie person, such a places
attracts me very much. That being said, I'd definitely take a trip to
Ignalina if I had a chance.
m.
Dmitry
> was nearly ten years ago - maybe it has deteriorated.
It was almost the same 2 years ago as 15 years ago, but it is
certainly better than some other roads in that area.
> It's a pity that you
> can't enjoy the seascape though; there is always a couple of hundred metres
> between the road and the beach.
I know the bit you mean, I think it's just after Engure. Beautifull
view.
>
> We stayed at the (then) new hotel in Roja and continued (via Melnsils!) to
> Kolkasrags the next day. That's where the not so good road started...
Wow, you've been there! This is very rare for someone to visit Latvia
and go to that part.
My kids grew up there, and now go there every summer to visit their
friends (and grandmother). They do Melnsils football games against
Kolka and always win.
The area after Roja, incl. Roja, used to be closed area. You may
remember big ROJA letters made out of stone as you entering it. They
used to have pogranichnik's hut there. They stoped the cars and busses
and checked everyone's passports and paperwork permitting to enter the
area. I still don't know what strategic importance the area had.
Anyone could take a different route and enter the area anyway.
> We
> picked up an old lady who had just missed the bus. She was so relieved that
> she had to weep a little - she would have had to walk 14 kms, because it was
> the last bus that day. It's great when a little gesture turns out to be
> really valuable!
In deed!
>
> We drove through the Sliiteres rezervaats to Mazirbe, where we met a few
> of the last surviving Livs.
In early 90's they started a sunday school in Mazirbe, trying to
preserve the language. I don't know how it is developed. Did you
speak Finnish to them? Did you understand their language?
> Then back via Talsi and Tukums.
What do you think of Tukums?
>
> You're right: Kurzeme has a lot to offer. I've also driven up from Palanga
> to Liepaaja and Ventspils,
Liepaja un Ventspils were quite industrial, as far as remember them.
> but unfortunaterly I've missed much of the
> interior. I'd like to go to Kuldiga, for instance.
My next visit is already planned Riga-Melnsils-Riga with Dundaga and
Mazirbe during the stay in Melnsils (I would have to spend at least
few hours in Roja with relatives as well).
After that, next time I go to Latvia I will make some time for
Latgale, there are plenty of beautifull places to see. Also
sentimental things like the graves of my grandmother and greatgrans.
>
> John
Uno Hu
It was even more beautiful before you russians invaded.
Uno Hu
Dmitry
And how does Uno Hu know? What's the point of commenting if you have
never been there?
>
> Uno Hu
Uno Hu
Moron russkie. I have been there.
And what you need to do is to get back to russia - she yearns for you.
Uno Hu