Nothing, it seems, improves...
Henry Alminas
... the russkie mood as much as a good
spot of murder, looting and destruction
perpetrated by them - in their neighbor's
house.
The article below demonstrates that
very well. At last, at last - they think
- russkies have earned "respect".
(I repeat a question I posed some time
ago - does the Russian language manage
to differentiate between fear and respect?)
Best - - Henry
From: Russiaprofile.org
A Wider Doctrine
By: Vladimir Frolov
September 30, 2008
When Russian forces destroyed Georgia''s army and sank its
Western-donated navy during a five-day-long war in August in order to
protect South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Mikheil Saakashvili''s suicidal
policies, many in the West argued that this would send a signal
throughout the post-Soviet space that the former Soviet bloc countries
should seek NATO''s protection from Russia''s aggressive policies.
However, the actual message that politicians in states like Azerbaijan and
Moldova are deciphering is antithetical.
Less than two months after the war, the messages that are actually
sinking in throughout this space couldn''t be more different -- do not
needlessly provoke Moscow, and take what it says about its ""privileged
interests"" in the former Soviet Union seriously; do not underestimate
Russia''s willingness to expend blood and treasure to defend its perceived
interests, and do not overestimate the United States'' and NATO''s
willingness to come to your rescue in time to make a difference.
Moscow''s war with Georgia might have killed the CIS, but Russia''s
credibility in the former Soviet Union has never been stronger since the
demise of the Union in 1991. And the chance that any former Soviet
republic, including Georgia and Ukraine, would now be getting into
NATO is close to zero.
Without a war in Georgia, it would have been inconceivable that two
months before a general election, the president of Azerbaijan would
bluntly tell the visiting U.S. vice president that Baku would not support a
policy that seeks to purposefully reroute energy supplies from the
Caspian and Central Asia bypassing Russia. Houston, you have a
problem!
Moldova''s President Vladimir Voronin was made to see the error of his
ways a few months before Russian troops routed Saakashvili''s army, and
after a couple of years of economic sanctions imposed by Moscow he
publicly announced that Moldova would not seek NATO membership
and would never use force to settle the frozen conflict in Transdnestr. He
was instantly rewarded with an audience with President Dmitry
Medvedev, and Moscow pushed to force Transdnestr''s leadership to
accept broad autonomy within the sovereign state of Moldova
under Russian guarantees. Expect peace to break out in this troubled
region quite shortly. The Turks got the message that they should not be
in the business of baiting Russia in the former Soviet Union, and should
be quite happy with a supporting role.
The Israelis got it right even before the war by refusing to sell
Saakashvili Merkava tanks while selling him pilotless drones. Israel cut
off all arms deliveries to Georgia and has no plans to resume the
recently-lucrative trade. Plans to introduce a visa-free regime between
Israel and Russia were implemented on schedule.
The only one who was not getting it, or deliberately refused to get it, was
Ukraine''s President Viktor Yuschenko. Before the Georgia conflict,
Yuschenko found himself pushed toward political irrelevance in Ukraine,
with Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko and the Party of Regions'' leader
Viktor Yanukovich working quite constructively to eclipse his power.
Russia''s military move into Georgia presented Yuschenko with an
opportunity to seize the political initiative and play on the fears that
Russia might be harboring similar war designs against Ukraine, using the
strong pro-Russian sentiments in the Crimea and the Russian Black
Sea Fleet at Sevastopol as a pretext for the intervention. He was clearly
getting help on this from the West, as U.S. pundits and the media hurried
to claim that Ukraine may be the next target for invasion by the Russian
army.
Yuschenko rushed to Tbilisi during the conflict, where he shamelessly
cheered Saakashvili''s rabid ""Russia hate"" speech. He then issued a
decree stating that Russia''s Black Sea Fleet, which sank the Georgian
navy, from now on would have to notify the Ukrainian authorities in
advance when it wants to send ships out of their base at Sevastopol, and
then to seek permission to return to the base after exercises or a combat
mission. He also renewed calls for Ukraine''s membership in NATO.
It was a singular failure of judgment and a fatal political mistake that
would soon cost Yuschenko his job. His actions against the backdrop of
the Russian rout of Georgia had the unintended effect of scaring the wits
out of the Ukrainian elites. It was now becoming evident to them that
Yuschenko might drag Ukraine into a war with Russia, for nothing but
his blind ambition to join NATO.
The Ukrainian elites are ruthlessly pragmatic. They are united in their
desire to build an independent Ukrainian state, and no one is looking
forward to being bossed around from Moscow. But provoking a war with
Russia to join NATO? That looks to many people in Kiev,
Dnepropetrovsk, Donetsk and Harkiv as a singularly unattractive
proposition. There is no way that the Ukrainian military can prevent a
major combat ship from the Russian Black Sea Fleet from leaving or
returning to its base at Sevastopol without a major fight that
might end up with the Russian air force bombing Ukrainian targets.
The Ukrainian elites have begun abandoning Yuschenko''s sinking
political ship. Yulia Timoshenko made it clear that she wanted nothing to
do with a policy that might get Ukraine into a war with Russia without
getting it into NATO or the EU.
She also understands quite pragmatically that if Russia is not needlessly
baited with calls to withdraw the Black Sea Fleet or restrict its operations
at Sevastopol, and if Ukraine stops banging on NATO''s closed door
while publicly scolding Russia, it might actually get a very lucrative and
comfortable relationship with Moscow. Timoshenko, who just over a
year ago published a foreign affairs piece calling for the containment of
Russia (with editorial assistance from the U.S. Undersecretary of State
Paula Dobryansky), is now seeking to turn Ukraine into Russia''s Canada
a friendly, prosperous and democratic state that enjoys the benefits of a
close relationship with a powerful neighbor.
Russia''s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was recently asked by a visiting
American scholar whether Russia''s talk of ""privileged relations with its
neighbors"" was reminiscent of the Monroe Doctrine which the United
States had used to justify violating the sovereignty of its neighbors.
Lavrov answered: ""Our notion is wider than the Monroe Doctrine.""
The message is sinking in.
PS. See russkies celebrating in other ways - at:
tadas....@lycos.es
I don't know who Frolov is and I don't care. But he just puked out
everything that's on Russia's mind. And it makes for sick reading.
If Russia were an individual, serious psychiatric treatment would be
indicated.
Henry Alminas
"Mikhail Medved" <mikhai...@mail.ru> wrote in message
news:983c29a9-65ca-4f1c...@v15g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
I think you shoul get your psychiatric treatment. Hearing voices
(i.e., knowing what's "on Russia's mind") and getting sick while
reading are serious symptoms.
****************
Yeah, yeah - but, did ya like the clip of "russkies celebrating
in other ways"?
Best - - Henry
MTRP™
> Henry Alminas wrote:
> > ... the russkie mood as much as a good
> > spot of murder, looting and destruction
> > perpetrated by them - in their neighbor's
What's wrong with your brains, weirdos? Stop your feminine whining and
try to argue. The article is academically accurate. That in the
aftermath of RU's harsh response to GE's failed blitzkrieg Mrs.
Timoshenko "is now seeking to turn Ukraine into Russia''s Canada
friendly, prosperous and democratic state that enjoys the benefits of
close relationship with a powerful neighbor" is a good news for all
earthlings (if true). Mr. Frolov might go lunatic about EU danger, but
NATO in UKR could trigger WW3, so sez rocket sci. And it would surely
break UKR apart ...
darsi...@comcast.net
There goes Rusty shakin' his Topols again.
Is that all you know ? How about tossing in some chemical weapons or
poisoning the local water supply as a change of pace ? Surely there's
more than one way you can advertise your penchant for mass murder ?
Vidas
MTRP™
> MTRP™ wrote:
> > What's wrong with your brains, weirdos?
Go away, troll. Sit quiet and wait till you see MTRP™ addressing
brainless entities.
darsi...@comcast.net
Every morning as you address your bathroom mirror ?
Vidas
captain.
<tadas....@lycos.es> wrote in message
news:9407a658-407a-4871...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On 1 Spa, 16:52, "Henry Alminas" <halmi...@comcast.net> wrote:
> ... the russkie mood as much as a good
> spot of murder, looting and destruction
> perpetrated by them - in their neighbor's
> house.
>
> The article below demonstrates that
> very well. At last, at last - they think
> - russkies have earned "respect".
> (I repeat a question I posed some time
> ago - does the Russian language manage
> to differentiate between fear and respect?)
>
> Best - - Henry
>
it brings to mind a language question of my own. unlike herny, i have no
malice in asking this: in the russian language, how close together are
"strong" and "ruthless" in their application? i had an experience where a
russian i met seemed to have trouble differentiating the two in english,
meaning-wise.
captain.
On Oct 5, 1:21 am, "captain." <spammersmust...@now.net> wrote:
> <tadas.bli...@lycos.es> wrote in message
"Strong" (silnyi) and "ruthless" (bezzhalostnyi) are totally different
words in Russian and are never used interchangeably.
Moreover, in Russian folklore and cultural tradition strong heroes are
never ruthless but rather forgiving and merciful to their enemies.
Examples in literature abound.
I honestly question the Russian-ness of your acquaintance.
-------------------------------------
yes, i know the difference between the actual words in russian.
don't read too much into it. it was my observation that she had difficulty
in differentiating between a strong and ruthless personality. it was my
assumption that she did not understand.
tadas....@lycos.es
> In Russian folklore and cultural tradition strong heroes are
> never ruthless but rather forgiving and merciful to their enemies.
> Examples in literature abound.
So do counter-examples. So stop being a fuckwit.
Like, for example, the asshole described below, a great "hero", is not
at all ruthless, huh?
And you drunken pricks sing and admire, wishing you could be him.
Stenka Razin is the hero of a popular Russian folk song (lyric is by
Dmitri Sadovnikov (Дмитрий Николаевич Садовников) 1883, music is
folk), better known by the words Volga, Volga mat' rodnaya. The song
was dramatised in the very first Russian feature film, shot by Vasily
Goncharov in 1908 and entitled Ponizovaya Volnitsa. The melody was
used by Tom Springfield in the song The Carnival is Over that placed
The Seekers at #1 in 1965 in Australia and the UK.
Words in Russian Transcribed English language version
Из-за острова на стрежень,
На простор речной волны,
Выплывают расписные,
Острогрудые челны.
Iz-za ostrova na strezhen',
Na prostor rechnoy volny,
Vyplyvayut raspisnye,
Ostrogrudye chelny.
From beyond the wooded island
To the river wide and free
Proudly sailed the arrow-breasted
Ships of Cossack yeomanry.
На переднем Стенька Разин,
Обнявшись, сидит с княжной,
Свадьбу новую справляет,
Сам веселый и хмельной.
Na perednem Sten'ka Razin,
Obnyavshis', sidit s knyazhnoy,
Svad'bu novuyu spravlyaet,
Sam veselyi i khmel'noy.
On the first is Stenka Razin
With his princess by his side
Drunken holds in marriage revels
With his beauteous young bride
Позади их слышен ропот:
Нас на бабу променял!
Только ночь с ней провозился
Сам наутро бабой стал . . . .
Pozadi ikh slyschen ropot:
Nas na babu promenyal!
Tol'ko noch' s nej provozilsja
Sam nautro baboy stal . . . .
From behind there comes a murmur
"He has left his sword to woo;
One short night and Stenka Razin
Has become a woman, too."
Этот ропот и насмешки
Слышит грозный атаман,
И могучею рукою
Обнял персиянки стан.
Etot ropot i nasmeshki
Slyshit groznyi ataman,
I mogucheju rukoju
Obnjal persijanki stan.
Stenka Razin hears the murmur
Of his discontented band
And his lovely Persian princess
He has circled with his hand.
Брови черные сошлися,
Надвигается гроза.
Буйной кровью налилися
Атамановы глаза.
Brovi chornye soshlisya,
Nadvigaetsya groza.
Buynoy krov'yu nalilisya
Atamanovy glaza.
His dark brows are drawn together
As the waves of anger rise;
And the blood comes rushing swiftly
To his piercing jet black eyes.
"Ничего не пожалею,
Буйну голову отдам!" --
Раздаётся голос властный
По окрестным берегам.
"Nichevo ne pozhaleyu,
Bujnu golovu otdam!" --
Razdayotsya golos vlastnyi
Po okrestnym beregam.
"I will give you all you ask for
Head and heart and life and hand."
And his voice rolls out like thunder
Out across the distant land.
"Волга, Волга, мать родная,
Волга, русская река,
Не видала ты подарка
От донского казака!
"Volga, Volga, mat' rodnaya,
Volga, russkaya reka,
Ne vidala ty podarka
Ot donskovo kazaka!
Volga, Volga, Mother Volga
Wide and deep beneath the sun,
You have never seen such a present
From the Cossacks of the Don.
Чтобы не было раздора
Между вольными людьми,
Волга, Волга, мать родная,
На, красавицу возьми!"
Shtoby ne bylo razdora
Mezhdu vol'nymi ljud'mi,
Volga, Volga, mat' rodnaja,
Na, krasavitsu voz'mi!"
So that peace may reign forever
In this band so free and brave
Volga, Volga, Mother Volga
Make this lovely girl a grave.
Мощным взмахом поднимает
Он красавицу княжну
И за борт ее бросает
В набежавшую волну.
Moshchnym vzmakhom podnimaet
On krasavitsu knyazhnu
I za bort eyo brosaet
V nabezhavshuyu volnu.
Now, with one swift mighty motion
He has raised his bride on high
And has cast her where the waters
Of the Volga roll and sigh.
"Что ж вы, братцы, приуныли?
Эй, ты, Филька, черт, пляши!
Грянем песню удалую
На помин ее души!.."
"Shto zh vy, bratsy, priunyli?
Ej, ty, Fil'ka, chert, pljashi!
Grjanem pesnyu udaluyu
Na pomin ee dushi!.."
"Dance, you fools, and let's be merry
What is this that's in your eyes?
Let us thunder out a shanty
To the place where beauty lies."
Из-за острова на стрежень,
На простор речной волны,
Выплывают расписные
Острогрудые челны.
Iz-za ostrova na strezhen',
Na prostor rechnoy volny,
Vyplyvajut raspisnye
Ostrogrudiye chelny.
From beyond the wooded island
To the river wide and free
Proudly sailed the arrow-breasted
Ships of Cossack yeomanry.
captain.
--
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."
-MTRP
<tadas....@lycos.es> wrote in message
news:118699ca-8452-4d9d...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> "Mikhail Medved" <mikhail_b...@mail.ru> wrote in message
> In Russian folklore and cultural tradition strong heroes are
> never ruthless but rather forgiving and merciful to their enemies.
> Examples in literature abound.
So do counter-examples. So stop being a fuckwit.
Like, for example, the asshole described below, a great "hero", is not
at all ruthless, huh?
And you drunken pricks sing and admire, wishing you could be him.
------------
a little harsh don't ya think? medved may be a little... special..., but we
have no idea if he even had this guy in mind at all when he wrote of the
heroes.
tadas....@lycos.es
> --
> "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."
"Mikhail Medved" wrote categorically that "in Russian folklore and
cultural tradition strong heroes are never ruthless".. Stenka Razin is
Russian folklore hero no. 1. In the song – known and loved by all
Russkies – what part of SR's behaviour do you think is not ruthless?
Do I have to provide another 100 examples to dismiss Medved's
ridiculous contention? Russians admire brutality. It gives them a
woody.
J. Anderson
> Russians admire brutality. It gives them a
> woody.
Can we expect anything else? For hundreds of years they were beaten by
their owners, the landlords. It must have been some sort of sado-maso
relation.
Dmitry
> cultural tradition strong heroes are never ruthless".. Stenka Razin is
> Russian folklore hero no. 1.
In Soviet history text book he was presented as the first Russian
revolutionary. Any historical figure who did something or was against
Tsarist regime was credited in one way or another. Yet, Peter I was
in "hero" category too (I don't know if it was due to his reformism or
imperial achievements).
Also in Soviet history text books"Pavlik Morozov" was promoted as an
example for kids to follow. "Statues of him were built, and numerous
schools and youth groups were named in his honour. An opera and
numerous songs were written about him. Gerasimovka's school, which
Morozov attended, became a shrine and children from all over the
Soviet Union went on school excursions to visit it."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlik_Morozov
As far as I understand, Russia can't go without having heroes. Putin
seems to understand this "phenomenon" very well.
Dmitry
> tadas.bli...@lycos.es wrote:
> > Russians admire brutality. It gives them a
> > woody.
>
> Can we expect anything else?
I can't expect this from Russians today...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse (this article doesn't contain
the most shocking pictures).
Dmitry
> dares to write.
We've lost Vkarlamov and Medved is trying to replace him. Same boring
Sovok material...
>
> For your information, dear stupid and ignorant Sir, Pavlik Morozov had
> never betrayed his father.
> Read the real story
Whatever "the real story" is, brainwashing children is a cruel act.
This is not about whether the story was real or not, it is about how
these stories were used in " supperior" sovok education.
> and don't repeat the
> stupidity broadcast by various "J.Andersons" and Spaniels of this
> world.
What do you mean by various? I say what I think, John says what he
thinks. Why do you have problem with it?
captain.
"Dmitry" <dmitrijs...@inbox.lv> wrote in message
news:85a7d53e-033a-449b...@g17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> "Mikhail Medved" wrote categorically that "in Russian folklore and
>> cultural tradition strong heroes are never ruthless".. Stenka Razin is
>> Russian folklore hero no. 1.
>
> In Soviet history text book he was presented as the first Russian
> revolutionary. Any historical figure who did something or was against
> Tsarist regime was credited in one way or another. Yet, Peter I was
> in "hero" category too (I don't know if it was due to his reformism or
> imperial achievements).
>
> Also in Soviet history text books"Pavlik Morozov" was promoted as an
> example for kids to follow. "Statues of him were built, and numerous
> schools and youth groups were named in his honour. An opera and
> numerous songs were written about him. Gerasimovka's school, which
> Morozov attended, became a shrine and children from all over the
> Soviet Union went on school excursions to visit it."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlik_Morozov
>
i heard that he may not even have been a real person. learning about the
fostering of an informant culture is nevertheless quite interesting. it's a
dictator state's best friend.
J. Anderson
> Baltic emigre living in Espana
Who would that be? Gintautas is living in Lithuania and Canada, AFAIK.
J. Anderson
> On Oct 7, 9:24 pm, Mikhail Medved <mikhail_b...@mail.ru> wrote:
>> On Oct 7, 9:50 am, "J. Anderson" <anderso...@inbox.lv> wrote:
>> culture as complex as Russian.
Complex is the right word. You guys are full of complexes.
But whether you like it or not, truth is that almost all of you are
descendants of serfs. And it would be odd if centuries of serfdom
wouldn't have influenced your national culture. Do you deny that?
>> you show yourself off for the whole world as stupid and ignorant.
That really does not matter. And I doubt that 'the whole world' is
following what's happening in SCB. Not yet at least.
> And since the cultural argument seems a little too complex for your
> primitive psyche
Russian culture is complex, and my psyche is primitive. What else is new?
> Throughout the history, *we* beat *you* many times.
'You' are 140 million, 'we' are 5 million. But then again, you've always
been 'heroic' when it comes to pestering smaller neighbours. Such is the
manner of a born bully.
> And then showed
> magnanimity. Last time it happened when the USSR voluntarily revoked
> the most humiliating aspects of after-WWII peace treaties with
> Finland.
Magnanimity? Are you saying that it was magnanimous of the USSR (which
you suddenly seem to identify with) to return the Porkkala base?
Let me remind you that there would have been no post-WWII peace treaty
if the USSR hadn't attacked Finland in the first place.
Porkkala was returned because:
1) The naval base had become obsolete and was too expensive to maintain;
2) The Khrushchev-Bulganin regime needed to buy itself some
international goodwill;
3) The USSR wanted to influence Finnish domestic politics, mainly the
presidential election a few months later.
Governments don't make decisions based on magnanimity. Least of all
Russian governments.
Dmitry
> "Dmitry" <dmitrijsfedot...@inbox.lv> wrote in message
>
> news:85a7d53e-033a-449b...@g17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >> "Mikhail Medved" wrote categorically that "in Russian folklore and
> >> cultural tradition strong heroes are never ruthless".. Stenka Razin is
> >> Russian folklore hero no. 1.
>
> > In Soviet history text book he was presented as the first Russian
> > revolutionary. Any historical figure who did something or was against
> > Tsarist regime was credited in one way or another. Yet, Peter I was
> > in "hero" category too (I don't know if it was due to his reformism or
> > imperial achievements).
>
> > Also in Soviet history text books"Pavlik Morozov" was promoted as an
> > example for kids to follow. "Statues of him were built, and numerous
> > schools and youth groups were named in his honour. An opera and
> > numerous songs were written about him. Gerasimovka's school, which
> > Morozov attended, became a shrine and children from all over the
> > Soviet Union went on school excursions to visit it."
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlik_Morozov
>
> i heard that he may not even have been a real person.
Like our Robin Hood -))
> learning about the
> fostering of an informant culture is nevertheless quite interesting. it's a
> dictator state's best friend.
The problem with Sovok was that these images, whether real or not,
were the tools used in the process of brainwashing Soviet population.
In this particular case, children were targeted. The "moral" was -
the country and communist party are the most important things in
anyone's life - so if your parents show any sign of unconformism it is
your duty to inform the friendly KGB staff. This crap didn't work in
Latvia, not in my time, but after spending 4 months in Russia in the
early 80's I understood that these things can work very successfully.
Remembering the jokes when I was at school (in russian - you do
understand Russian as far as I gathered):
- proshla zima, nastalo leto - spasibo partii za eto.
- u menia segodnia koshka rodila vchera kotiat, kotiata vyrosli
nemnozhko i uzhe v partiju hotiat.
tadas....@lycos.es
What's that about moving Easter to the autumn?
(The Lithuanians will understand my reference: "Velikaja rodina"
being interpreted as "Velykos rudenį".)
Dmitry
Sorry, this is to do with thanking Communist party for everything [the
winter ended - The summer came - thanks to Communist party].
The other one is [my cat had kittens yesterday, today they have grown
up a little and already want to join Communist party].
Apologies for clumsy translation.
>
> (The Lithuanians will understand my reference: "Velikaja rodina"
> being interpreted as "Velykos rudená".)
Great autumn?
captain.
------------------
my understanding of russian is limited and still developing, but yes, i can
understand those jokes. russian humor eludes me most of the time. i chalk it
up to culural differences.
Dmitry
They aren't good if translated and you have to have been experienced
the context. Otherwise they don't make much sense.