The problem of Baltics.
Vladimir Makarenko
It took quite a time for the picture to crystallize in my brain: the
global crisis helped. Baltics today is a beloved child of yellow press
morons - "Failed Economies of failed EE states of EU".
Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too
- being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash. No, pig's "Ego game"
("they should crawl on their knees and beg"). Everywhere I look I see
dumb and criminal morons.
But I believe in individuals not as idea but as experimental data.
Baltics as I see suffer from inferiority and insecurity complex. Hence
the all attitude towards Russia, "Russian" minorities, looking up from
standing on their knees at the Magnificent West. And nobody asks the
simple question - if e.g. France was under Soviets as long as Baltics
were on what step of staircase vs Baltics the France would stand today?
Always apologizing and explaining themselves: I don't see e.g. Dutch
or France do not explaining their SS except in footnotes (and btw they
treat them radically differently) - Baltics on the other hand write
books, issuing Government statements why and how it happened. Denmark
meanwhile pay pensions to its SS veterans - like SO WHAT? It is a time (
I said it before I think) - for Baltics to learn how to say to
everybody from outside who thinks that they are a target of convenience
- "I listened with Great Attention what you said and this is what I
think : Go Fuck Yourself." (TM - Vladimir Putin). But you are so f***
civilized you just do not have a nerve. Hire Rogosin or me.
I think the Baltics should stop saying "we are as Western Europe as
Western Europe is". Instead should start to say " We are Baltics, We are
Unique and Special, a Gem of the Continent".
Just lazy thoughts on Sunday afternoon.
But of course I will continue to bash you at any opportunity. Till you
put a Rogosin-like in charge. Which looks just happened in Lithuania. (I
read a bit about her - she is a razor sharp mind and no string attached
tongue).
But we Russkies will not change our evil paths until you change yours.
As I said - lazy slow thoughts on Sunday afternoon. Contemplation.
VM.
Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr.
wrote:
> Skip it if you think it has any value.
>
> It took quite a time for the picture to crystallize in my brain: the
> global crisis helped. Baltics today is a beloved child of yellow press
> morons - "Failed Economies of failed EE states of EU".
> Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too
> - being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
> much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
> mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
> I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
> from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
> I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
> animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
> Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash.
>
Oh, yes, lots of cash! Especially because the average Balts have a
higher standard of living than average Russians, and the Russian
economy has collapsed in the current economic meltdown. Who cares if
millions of Russian senior citizens are starving? Let's give their
money to the Baltic politicians, who begged Bush last year to place as
many anti-Russian nukes on their territory as possible.
But why stop at the Baltics? Why shouldn't Russia also send money to
American, English and other NATO rulers? Look, do you think the
American arms build-up is cheap? Russia should help out. Or better yet
- maybe Russia should pay Exxon and BP several hundred billion? If
Russia pays them enough - maybe the US government won't be under so
much pressure to invade and harass Russia, Iraq and other oil-rich
countries?
Remember how in NY and Chicago in the 1920s and in Russia in the 1990s
businesses paid gangsters monthly ransom? Well, maybe Russia should
pay USA, Balts and the rest of NATO such a ransom to be left alone?
Maybe if they paid this ransom back in 1999, Serbia would have kept
its territorial integrity, so valued by USA for Georgia? I wonder how
much Iraq could have paid USA in 2003 for its own integrity and
survival... What are Exxon, BP, Lokheed, and Halliburton's profits
per year? Can the international community just pay them off?
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Dec 13, 4:15 pm, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Skip it if you think it has any value.
>>
>> It took quite a time for the picture to crystallize in my brain: the
>> global crisis helped. Baltics today is a beloved child of yellow press
>> morons - "Failed Economies of failed EE states of EU".
>> Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too
>> - being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
>> much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
>> mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
>> I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
>> from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
>> I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
>> animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
>> Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash.
>>
>
> Oh, yes, lots of cash! Especially because the average Balts have a
> higher standard of living than average Russians, and the Russian
> economy has collapsed in the current economic meltdown.
We have a responsibility because Russia is big and they are small and
defeseless and we committed unspeakable crimes to them. The Big One as
Stupid as we are Socially has to take care of neighbors when they are
in trouble and even if they have a sign on their forehead is "I hate You".
Who cares if
> millions of Russian senior citizens are starving? Let's give their
> money to the Baltic politicians, who begged Bush last year to place as
> many anti-Russian nukes on their territory as possible.
Aha? I see how these money instead are flowing into Baltic pockets are
in filthy scumbags of Russian Oligarchy.
Put me against the wall I still say - give it better to Baltics. I am
not some whore like Piontkovsky or Lucas, But between Baltics and
Gazprom I chose - Baltics. Tactically - it was a very smart move - to go
Baltic Sea bottom. Strategically - an angry Putin behaved himself like a
teenager.
(Vladimir Vladimirovich - davaite posporim - u menya cifry na rukah, Ya
vse poschital, - nikakoi magii "davaite zhit' druzhno!", ili "Rossiya v
opasnotsti!" - trubu nuzhno bylo klast' cherez Baltiku, Vy Vladimir
Vladimirovich PEREostorozhnichali, - byvaet.Naprimer kak ya poschital -
extra premium na trubu - navernoe neslo'lko milliardov. Smenit' rezhimy
na druzhestvennye (tut Vello nahmurit'sya - Vello, mne eto ne nravit'sya
tak zhe kak tebe, ya prosto glyazhu glaza v glaza) stoily by mozhet byt'
odin - dva milliarda.
Kak obycho s nami Russkimi - opyat' platim dva tree the price. Of course
I do not forget to thank you Baltic geniuses - I really feel you are our
breed - doing your best to screw yourself up.
>
> But why stop at the Baltics? Why shouldn't Russia also send money to
> American, English and other NATO rulers?
Oh for Christ sake stop it there. If we'll start to compete who is a
real Russian die hard patriot I will finish a lap a minute before you
get your breath back. I don't even have a tattoo - everybody reads who I
am in my eyes.
Andrius
wrote:
Ibuy,Ibyu!Justtlellmewhataprice!
Foracarmacarenkowhee....geta50eurosandfuckoffpls.LetstalksaboutIrishpride=gaypride-
whattodoelse?IlikeHavanagila-doIneedtobecircumisec?
Sorry,backspacelitted.Makarenkoisashit.Letsgobackforamodernisation.Uhh.Marriage...Fuckall.
Regards,
Andrius
P.S.Sorry,forSunkeybthatwerelittedby....
Vladimir Makarenko
Don't be sorry - find something to fell in love. You then will not care
anymore about some Makarenko or what he wrote.
Because you waste your time now.
VM.
Incognito
"Vladimir Makarenko" <vma...@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:gIWdnYbPI68I6rrW...@giganews.com...
How about fell in a well and found it was deep.
Vladimir Makarenko
Such guys usually are too smart to do this - they vote for separating
tasks: "I tell you "Dolce et Decorum pro Patria blah blah blah" and then
go to lunch and you to fight "enemy" and die. I know this breed very
well. They are smart.
The problem is that too many stupid listen to them and buy what they say
at face value.
VM.
Dmitry
> - being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
> much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
> mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
> I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
> from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
It is a pity, he was a great contributer since the start of this
group. I've met Peteris in person and I really like him. His belief
in legitimacy of Bush's 9/11 call did surprise me very much, however.
> I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
> animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
> Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash. No, pig's "Ego game"
> ("they should crawl on their knees and beg"). Everywhere I look I see
> dumb and criminal morons.
Lots of them end up in politics.
> But I believe in individuals not as idea but as experimental data.
> Baltics as I see suffer from inferiority and insecurity complex.
So does Russia making a fuss about relocating the bronze statue in
Tallinn.
> Hence
> the all attitude towards Russia, "Russian" minorities, looking up from
> standing on their knees at the Magnificent West. And nobody asks the
> simple question - if e.g. France was under Soviets as long as Baltics
> were on what step of staircase vs Baltics the France would stand today?
> Always apologizing and explaining themselves: I don't see e.g. Dutch
> or France do not explaining their SS except in footnotes (and btw they
> treat them radically differently) - Baltics on the other hand write
> books, issuing Government statements why and how it happened. Denmark
> meanwhile pay pensions to its SS veterans - like SO WHAT? It is a time (
> I said it before I think) - for Baltics to learn how to say to
> everybody from outside who thinks that they are a target of convenience
> - "I listened with Great Attention what you said and this is what I
> think : Go Fuck Yourself." (TM - Vladimir Putin). But you are so f***
> civilized you just do not have a nerve. Hire Rogosin or me.
> I think the Baltics should stop saying "we are as Western Europe as
> Western Europe is". Instead should start to say " We are Baltics, We are
> Unique and Special, a Gem of the Continent".
Baltics are not "a Gem of the Continent", but for those three
countries is more natural to be part of "Western Europe" than part of
Russian sphere of influence.
>
> Just lazy thoughts on Sunday afternoon.
>
> But of course I will continue to bash you at any opportunity.
It is the best time, Vladimir. Latvia is in a deep s*** as we speak.
I have lots of people from my motherland contacting me and asking for
help these days. The most recent one was from an old friend/colleague
saying that he lives in "prijut" and is hungry and asking me for one
off financial help in order to sustain his life. Of course I will
send him some money, but I am very angry with Latvian politicians who
brought Latvia to such condition. Needless to say that those
politicians are not exactly struggling in this difficult time. So
yes, it is a perfect moment for the bash.
> Till you
> put a Rogosin-like in charge. Which looks just happened in Lithuania. (I
> read a bit about her - she is a razor sharp mind and no string attached
> tongue).
> But we Russkies will not change our evil paths until you change yours.
How come Baltics should responsible for the Ruskies evil paths?
Russia should hold responsibilities for its own problems. It is no
good to place the responsibility on former colonies.
Vladimir Makarenko
>> Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too
>> - being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
>> much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
>> mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
>> I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
>> from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
>
> It is a pity, he was a great contributer since the start of this
> group. I've met Peteris in person and I really like him. His belief
> in legitimacy of Bush's 9/11 call did surprise me very much, however.
Well, I then probably didn't surprise you either.
There was a sense of hopelessness after they did this. The NYC morgue is
in our building and it got so over capacity - they brought meat
refrigerators to hold the pieces of bodes.
My roommate from Russia sent me an email - asked me what is coming? I
said - wish I were wrong - they are going to kill and to kill a lot.
Except the public was sold a wrong target. (Where is Vello - how about
running a tank over body of a wrong country? - for few pennies of oil?)
>
>> I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
>> animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
>> Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash. No, pig's "Ego game"
>> ("they should crawl on their knees and beg"). Everywhere I look I see
>> dumb and criminal morons.
>
> Lots of them end up in politics.
Because this is their play field. Most of politicians are not good for
anything else but - used car dealers. Lazy parasites.
>
>> But I believe in individuals not as idea but as experimental data.
>> Baltics as I see suffer from inferiority and insecurity complex.
>
> So does Russia making a fuss about relocating the bronze statue in
> Tallinn.
Let divide what happened about it - there was "official" Russia which
rode the wave of anger, and there was my Russia - "like it was not
enough they now kick our dead".
I stay where I told Vello - you have a problem with the monument - work
on it. Communist methods: no monument - no problem IS not a solution.
Remember Commies exploded the biggest Church in Moscow.
It is now rebuilt.
>
>> Hence
>> the all attitude towards Russia, "Russian" minorities, looking up from
>> standing on their knees at the Magnificent West. And nobody asks the
>> simple question - if e.g. France was under Soviets as long as Baltics
>> were on what step of staircase vs Baltics the France would stand today?
>> Always apologizing and explaining themselves: I don't see e.g. Dutch
>> or France do not explaining their SS except in footnotes (and btw they
>> treat them radically differently) - Baltics on the other hand write
>> books, issuing Government statements why and how it happened. Denmark
>> meanwhile pay pensions to its SS veterans - like SO WHAT? It is a time (
>> I said it before I think) - for Baltics to learn how to say to
>> everybody from outside who thinks that they are a target of convenience
>> - "I listened with Great Attention what you said and this is what I
>> think : Go Fuck Yourself." (TM - Vladimir Putin). But you are so f***
>> civilized you just do not have a nerve. Hire Rogosin or me.
>> I think the Baltics should stop saying "we are as Western Europe as
>> Western Europe is". Instead should start to say " We are Baltics, We are
>> Unique and Special, a Gem of the Continent".
>
> Baltics are not "a Gem of the Continent", but for those three
> countries is more natural to be part of "Western Europe" than part of
> Russian sphere of influence.
Why to be a part of Russia influence? Look at the beloved W Europe:
there is Finland, San Marino, Norway etc. They are part of W.E. but
independent each one in a special way. I think Baltics decided to buy it
- cheap: Cheney boys told us - be against Russia we'll pay back.
Georgia went down this path.
Except Cheney boys are sitting comfortably in their $1,000,000 houses
and Georgian boys are in graves.
>
>> Just lazy thoughts on Sunday afternoon.
>>
>> But of course I will continue to bash you at any opportunity.
>
> It is the best time, Vladimir. Latvia is in a deep s*** as we speak.
Like Russkies are not - I emptied my checking account buying them out.
> I have lots of people from my motherland contacting me and asking for
> help these days. The most recent one was from an old friend/colleague
> saying that he lives in "prijut" and is hungry and asking me for one
> off financial help in order to sustain his life. Of course I will
> send him some money, but I am very angry with Latvian politicians who
> brought Latvia to such condition. Needless to say that those
> politicians are not exactly struggling in this difficult time. So
> yes, it is a perfect moment for the bash.
I really rarely go there - because I saw in my life so much injustice
and misery to those who work from sunrise to sundown, and low life
shcmuks who profit on them, it made me puke. I went to America - it is
better - relatively, - still very unjust.
Baltics are so easy a target to bash, but as every coin it has the other
side - I do not think I am alone - there is a natural disgust when
somebody takes on a one with an obvious disadvantage in size.
The model of economy which was adopted is faulty. Hence the big mouth
morons came to power.
>
>> Till you
>> put a Rogosin-like in charge. Which looks just happened in Lithuania. (I
>> read a bit about her - she is a razor sharp mind and no string attached
>> tongue).
>> But we Russkies will not change our evil paths until you change yours.
>
> How come Baltics should responsible for the Ruskies evil paths?
Dima, there is no such thing as "Russia" - it is a composure of
different people, different regions, different tribes. You lump us all
together - and we fight back together, how else?
We are a bunch of tribes by history put together on assumption - if the
one is attacked the rest will stand up. Remember WWII?
> Russia should hold responsibilities for its own problems. It is no
> good to place the responsibility on former colonies.
Russia has to make its mind, I think it is still in search (I know Putin
in Baltic book is a imperialist monster, who he is not - he pushes the
envelope but he is a realist.)
It is very uneasy - to advice Baltics what to do next. But I think - if
there is no strategy model to follow - follow the model which worked -
Finland.
Can I repeat - another lazy thought on lazy afternoon, (two days out of
work).
But many thanks for everything.
Vm.
vello
wrote:
> Skip it if you think it has any value.
>
> It took quite a time for the picture to crystallize in my brain: the
> global crisis helped. Baltics today is a beloved child of yellow press
> morons - "Failed Economies of failed EE states of EU".
> Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too
> - being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
> much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
> mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
> I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
> from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
> I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
> animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
> Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash.
No way. Baltics have some problems for now, but if there is aid money
available - let it go to the places where aid is really needed.
"Helping" Baltics where incomes are 3-4 times higher then in Russia
would just turn ordinary russians to hate us. We can happily drove
cheaper cars then Hummer (a favourite car for Estonia during boom
years), let your money help people in Asia and Africa where problem is
not the size of a car but finding food to survive.
No, pig's "Ego game"
> ("they should crawl on their knees and beg"). Everywhere I look I see
> dumb and criminal morons.
> But I believe in individuals not as idea but as experimental data.
> Baltics as I see suffer from inferiority and insecurity complex. Hence
> the all attitude towards Russia, "Russian" minorities, looking up from
> standing on their knees at the Magnificent West. And nobody asks the
> simple question - if e.g. France was under Soviets as long as Baltics
> were on what step of staircase vs Baltics the France would stand today?
don't know much about "Baltics", for Estonia there was a simple idea:
to deal with Russia like finns do. Good-bad, who knows but working
solution. It was rejected by Russia.
> Always apologizing and explaining themselves: I don't see e.g. Dutch
> or France do not explaining their SS except in footnotes (and btw they
> treat them radically differently) - Baltics on the other hand write
> books, issuing Government statements why and how it happened. Denmark
> meanwhile pay pensions to its SS veterans - like SO WHAT? It is a time (
> I said it before I think) - for Baltics to learn how to say to
> everybody from outside who thinks that they are a target of convenience
> - "I listened with Great Attention what you said and this is what I
> think : Go Fuck Yourself." (TM - Vladimir Putin). But you are so f***
> civilized you just do not have a nerve. Hire Rogosin or me.
> I think the Baltics should stop saying "we are as Western Europe as
> Western Europe is". Instead should start to say " We are Baltics, We are
> Unique and Special, a Gem of the Continent".
There is a big difference in attitude towards former SS men in France,
Danemark etc in one side and in Baltics for the other side. For first
group, Nazi Germany was the enemy, so freiwillige in SS fight for
enemy against their own people. For Baltics, enemu no 1 was Soviet
Union, so fighting in Waffes-SS was taken as fighting on side of an
ally against main enemy.
>
> Just lazy thoughts on Sunday afternoon.
>
> But of course I will continue to bash you at any opportunity. Till you
> put a Rogosin-like in charge. Which looks just happened in Lithuania. (I
> read a bit about her - she is a razor sharp mind and no string attached
> tongue).
Rogozin is a funny guy - but hardly good choice for an country as big
and important as Russia.
Dmitry
> Dmitry wrote:
> >> Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too
> >> - being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
> >> much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
> >> mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
> >> I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
> >> from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
>
> > It is a pity, he was a great contributer since the start of this
> > group. I've met Peteris in person and I really like him. His belief
> > in legitimacy of Bush's 9/11 call did surprise me very much, however.
>
> Well, I then probably didn't surprise you either.
> There was a sense of hopelessness after they did this. The NYC morgue is
> in our building and it got so over capacity - they brought meat
> refrigerators to hold the pieces of bodes.
> My roommate from Russia sent me an email - asked me what is coming? I
> said - wish I were wrong - they are going to kill and to kill a lot.
> Except the public was sold a wrong target.
It was so primitive. Tony Blair tried to sell the same here and
earned himself unpopularity in this country because of that, some say
that he is even more unpopular than Lady Thatcher.
> >> I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
> >> animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
> >> Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash. No, pig's "Ego game"
> >> ("they should crawl on their knees and beg"). Everywhere I look I see
> >> dumb and criminal morons.
>
> > Lots of them end up in politics.
>
> Because this is their play field. Most of politicians are not good for
> anything else but - used car dealers. Lazy parasites.
>
>
>
> >> But I believe in individuals not as idea but as experimental data.
> >> Baltics as I see suffer from inferiority and insecurity complex.
>
> > So does Russia making a fuss about relocating the bronze statue in
> > Tallinn.
>
> Let divide what happened about it - there was "official" Russia which
> rode the wave of anger, and there was my Russia - "like it was not
> enough they now kick our dead".
> I stay where I told Vello - you have a problem with the monument - work
> on it. Communist methods: no monument - no problem IS not a solution.
> Remember Commies exploded the biggest Church in Moscow.
> It is now rebuilt.
Yes, but Estonians didn't blow up the monument, just moved it to a
different nearby location.
I guess this is the fate of small and weak states. They have to fit
somewhere in order to survive? But, I think the main problem is
mismanagement or resources and power (however small it may be).
> >> Just lazy thoughts on Sunday afternoon.
>
> >> But of course I will continue to bash you at any opportunity.
>
> > It is the best time, Vladimir. Latvia is in a deep s*** as we speak.
>
> Like Russkies are not - I emptied my checking account buying them out.
>
> > I have lots of people from my motherland contacting me and asking for
> > help these days. The most recent one was from an old friend/colleague
> > saying that he lives in "prijut" and is hungry and asking me for one
> > off financial help in order to sustain his life. Of course I will
> > send him some money, but I am very angry with Latvian politicians who
> > brought Latvia to such condition. Needless to say that those
> > politicians are not exactly struggling in this difficult time. So
> > yes, it is a perfect moment for the bash.
>
> I really rarely go there - because I saw in my life so much injustice
> and misery to those who work from sunrise to sundown, and low life
> shcmuks who profit on them, it made me puke. I went to America - it is
> better - relatively, - still very unjust.
> Baltics are so easy a target to bash, but as every coin it has the other
> side - I do not think I am alone - there is a natural disgust when
> somebody takes on a one with an obvious disadvantage in size.
You're not alone. I agree with this too.
>
> The model of economy which was adopted is faulty. Hence the big mouth
> morons came to power.
>
>
>
> >> Till you
> >> put a Rogosin-like in charge. Which looks just happened in Lithuania. (I
> >> read a bit about her - she is a razor sharp mind and no string attached
> >> tongue).
> >> But we Russkies will not change our evil paths until you change yours.
>
> > How come Baltics should responsible for the Ruskies evil paths?
>
> Dima, there is no such thing as "Russia" - it is a composure of
> different people, different regions, different tribes. You lump us all
> together - and we fight back together, how else?
I do try avoiding stereotypes, but sometimes it comes out. Of course
I know that Russia consists of various people, beliefs and traditions.
Vladimir Makarenko
> On 15 Dec, 23:06, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com> wrote:
>> Dmitry wrote:
>>>> Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too
>>>> - being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
>>>> much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
>>>> mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
>>>> I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
>>>> from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
>>> It is a pity, he was a great contributer since the start of this
>>> group. I've met Peteris in person and I really like him. His belief
>>> in legitimacy of Bush's 9/11 call did surprise me very much, however.
>> Well, I then probably didn't surprise you either.
>> There was a sense of hopelessness after they did this. The NYC morgue is
>> in our building and it got so over capacity - they brought meat
>> refrigerators to hold the pieces of bodes.
>> My roommate from Russia sent me an email - asked me what is coming? I
>> said - wish I were wrong - they are going to kill and to kill a lot.
>> Except the public was sold a wrong target.
>
> It was so primitive. Tony Blair tried to sell the same here and
> earned himself unpopularity in this country because of that, some say
> that he is even more unpopular than Lady Thatcher.
Because it was ASTONISHING. Translation in Russian - there is a verb
"izumit'" which today means "strong surprise" but which original meaning
was a battle term - to send an enemy a blow which puts him in a degree
of shock.
And of course because it was against civilians.
It was a massacre of civilians by military trained personnel.
After that any response is fair.
>
>>>> I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
>>>> animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
>>>> Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash. No, pig's "Ego game"
>>>> ("they should crawl on their knees and beg"). Everywhere I look I see
>>>> dumb and criminal morons.
>>> Lots of them end up in politics.
>> Because this is their play field. Most of politicians are not good for
>> anything else but - used car dealers. Lazy parasites.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> But I believe in individuals not as idea but as experimental data.
>>>> Baltics as I see suffer from inferiority and insecurity complex.
>>> So does Russia making a fuss about relocating the bronze statue in
>>> Tallinn.
>> Let divide what happened about it - there was "official" Russia which
>> rode the wave of anger, and there was my Russia - "like it was not
>> enough they now kick our dead".
>> I stay where I told Vello - you have a problem with the monument - work
>> on it. Communist methods: no monument - no problem IS not a solution.
>> Remember Commies exploded the biggest Church in Moscow.
>> It is now rebuilt.
>
> Yes, but Estonians didn't blow up the monument, just moved it to a
> different nearby location.
Dima the situation is very simple - it is not to the nation which
celebrates Nazis to decide where the Soviet dead has to stay.
End of story.
We Russians DO NOT TELL them how to build their society today even
though we as always rich on ideas but- just DO NOT TOUCH OUR DEAD.
I don't believe that today "small and weak" is an excuse. It is not XIX
cent or the XX th anyway. Time for "small and weak" to growl.
>
>>>> Just lazy thoughts on Sunday afternoon.
>>>> But of course I will continue to bash you at any opportunity.
>>> It is the best time, Vladimir. Latvia is in a deep s*** as we speak.
>> Like Russkies are not - I emptied my checking account buying them out.
>>
>>> I have lots of people from my motherland contacting me and asking for
>>> help these days. The most recent one was from an old friend/colleague
>>> saying that he lives in "prijut" and is hungry and asking me for one
>>> off financial help in order to sustain his life. Of course I will
>>> send him some money, but I am very angry with Latvian politicians who
>>> brought Latvia to such condition. Needless to say that those
>>> politicians are not exactly struggling in this difficult time. So
>>> yes, it is a perfect moment for the bash.
>> I really rarely go there - because I saw in my life so much injustice
>> and misery to those who work from sunrise to sundown, and low life
>> shcmuks who profit on them, it made me puke. I went to America - it is
>> better - relatively, - still very unjust.
>> Baltics are so easy a target to bash, but as every coin it has the other
>> side - I do not think I am alone - there is a natural disgust when
>> somebody takes on a one with an obvious disadvantage in size.
>
> You're not alone. I agree with this too.
Baltics have to learn how to be mean and calculating in the face of big
countries. Because they still try to be "nice" to EU, US (well not to
Russia until recently, they thought Russia is over).
>
>> The model of economy which was adopted is faulty. Hence the big mouth
>> morons came to power.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Till you
>>>> put a Rogosin-like in charge. Which looks just happened in Lithuania. (I
>>>> read a bit about her - she is a razor sharp mind and no string attached
>>>> tongue).
>>>> But we Russkies will not change our evil paths until you change yours.
>>> How come Baltics should responsible for the Ruskies evil paths?
>> Dima, there is no such thing as "Russia" - it is a composure of
>> different people, different regions, different tribes. You lump us all
>> together - and we fight back together, how else?
>
> I do try avoiding stereotypes, but sometimes it comes out. Of course
> I know that Russia consists of various people, beliefs and traditions.
What I was trying to say - for better or worse there is some unwritten
agreement between all ethnic groups - a balance of interests which was
build for centuries by violence, blackmail, trade, this and that but
somehow it balanced the whole huge number of nations and tribes on
Russia's territory in rather robust equilibrium. Apart from that, Russia
is indifferent to racial/ethnic matters - I challenge you or whoever
decide to answer: find me any government in EU which composed of so many
ethnicities as the Russian one. As a matter of fact I can tell you in
advance - you will not.
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Dec 14, 2:15 am, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Skip it if you think it has any value.
>>
>> It took quite a time for the picture to crystallize in my brain: the
>> global crisis helped. Baltics today is a beloved child of yellow press
>> morons - "Failed Economies of failed EE states of EU".
>> Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too
>> - being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
>> much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
>> mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
>> I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
>> from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
>> I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
>> animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
>> Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash.
>
> No way. Baltics have some problems for now, but if there is aid money
> available - let it go to the places where aid is really needed.
> "Helping" Baltics where incomes are 3-4 times higher then in Russia
> would just turn ordinary russians to hate us. We can happily drove
> cheaper cars then Hummer (a favourite car for Estonia during boom
> years), let your money help people in Asia and Africa where problem is
> not the size of a car but finding food to survive.
>
To bail out Russia vs Baltics is incomparable: the whole Baltics what
population - about of Moscow? And one with brains always if not of
humanitarian then just of selfish interests cares that on the borders
everything is quiet and happy.
Russians already have a problem - Georgia, instead of being a pain in
the ass they left it alone and we all see the end result. Dead on both
sides. The country dismembered.
>
>
> No, pig's "Ego game"
>> ("they should crawl on their knees and beg"). Everywhere I look I see
>> dumb and criminal morons.
>> But I believe in individuals not as idea but as experimental data.
>> Baltics as I see suffer from inferiority and insecurity complex. Hence
>> the all attitude towards Russia, "Russian" minorities, looking up from
>> standing on their knees at the Magnificent West. And nobody asks the
>> simple question - if e.g. France was under Soviets as long as Baltics
>> were on what step of staircase vs Baltics the France would stand today?
>
> don't know much about "Baltics", for Estonia there was a simple idea:
> to deal with Russia like finns do. Good-bad, who knows but working
> solution. It was rejected by Russia.
But you don't, look how cool ,calculating and predictable Finns are and
how impulsive your are. Russian want to caress their Ego - give them
that: Oh, you Russians are so Good so Big. Now Give us some money.
Instead you still are trying to sting them anytime you get a chance.
What I think is plain stupid: the idea is to get your people to live
well not to feel proud while sitting in a cold house without bread on table.
Btw, as slippery the estimate as it is - Russian income is way over the
one you give. In price index adjusted it is today about the same as in
Baltics, at least if we talk about cities' population.
>
>> Always apologizing and explaining themselves: I don't see e.g. Dutch
>> or France do not explaining their SS except in footnotes (and btw they
>> treat them radically differently) - Baltics on the other hand write
>> books, issuing Government statements why and how it happened. Denmark
>> meanwhile pay pensions to its SS veterans - like SO WHAT? It is a time (
>> I said it before I think) - for Baltics to learn how to say to
>> everybody from outside who thinks that they are a target of convenience
>> - "I listened with Great Attention what you said and this is what I
>> think : Go Fuck Yourself." (TM - Vladimir Putin). But you are so f***
>> civilized you just do not have a nerve. Hire Rogosin or me.
>> I think the Baltics should stop saying "we are as Western Europe as
>> Western Europe is". Instead should start to say " We are Baltics, We are
>> Unique and Special, a Gem of the Continent".
>
> There is a big difference in attitude towards former SS men in France,
> Danemark etc in one side and in Baltics for the other side. For first
> group, Nazi Germany was the enemy, so freiwillige in SS fight for
> enemy against their own people. For Baltics, enemu no 1 was Soviet
> Union, so fighting in Waffes-SS was taken as fighting on side of an
> ally against main enemy.
But Russians will never buy it even if there is truth in it. These two
letters "SS" cause physiological reaction in Russians. 20 mln dead
civilians didn't just happen, it was Nazi's POLICY. We got conditioned
by SS: Brain stops to work, we just shoot. I am not calling you to
accommodate but think.
>> Just lazy thoughts on Sunday afternoon.
>>
>> But of course I will continue to bash you at any opportunity. Till you
>> put a Rogosin-like in charge. Which looks just happened in Lithuania. (I
>> read a bit about her - she is a razor sharp mind and no string attached
>> tongue).
>
> Rogozin is a funny guy - but hardly good choice for an country as big
> and important as Russia.
>
What I like about him (I am skeptical about him if generally) that you
cannot shut him up - he speaks without PC and never stops despite
consequences. You cannot take from him a sense of acid humor and rich
educational background. Besides he cares about Russians, - at least
somebody tries.
This is what I hope this Lady in Lithuania will do: will say - "you EU
suck, you US suck and you Russia suck big time. Now let's negotiate."
VM.
vello
wrote:
They don't leave it for a minute - you know it as well as me :-)
>
>
>
> > No, pig's "Ego game"
> >> ("they should crawl on their knees and beg"). Everywhere I look I see
> >> dumb and criminal morons.
> >> But I believe in individuals not as idea but as experimental data.
> >> Baltics as I see suffer from inferiority and insecurity complex. Hence
> >> the all attitude towards Russia, "Russian" minorities, looking up from
> >> standing on their knees at the Magnificent West. And nobody asks the
> >> simple question - if e.g. France was under Soviets as long as Baltics
> >> were on what step of staircase vs Baltics the France would stand today?
>
> > don't know much about "Baltics", for Estonia there was a simple idea:
> > to deal with Russia like finns do. Good-bad, who knows but working
> > solution. It was rejected by Russia.
>
> But you don't, look how cool ,calculating and predictable Finns are and
> how impulsive your are. Russian want to caress their Ego - give them
> that: Oh, you Russians are so Good so Big. Now Give us some money.
Well, such business plan will never work - even Nauru will learn it.
sole way to be wealthy is to produce wealthy life - no one can "give"
you for living for eternity.
> Instead you still are trying to sting them anytime you get a chance.
Basically not. most "angry words from Baltics" are find from third
sort newspapers - and then used as "Baltic accusations". Putin needs
some enemies - and small ones make more sense then those with bigger
economies/impact on world politics.
> What I think is plain stupid: the idea is to get your people to live
> well not to feel proud while sitting in a cold house without bread on table.
> Btw, as slippery the estimate as it is - Russian income is way over the
> one you give. In price index adjusted it is today about the same as in
> Baltics, at least if we talk about cities' population.
I don't know prices in Russia - journalists I met on regular basis are
from Moscow - St. Pete and (except gasoline) prices there are about
the same we have - or even higher. Pensions are quite miserable. May
be wrong, but my basic knowledge is from journalists from Russia
himself. But point is not in numbers. for a person, there is just one
who can "help you" effectively - you himself, others don't have enough
motivation. Same for nations. International help is useful to deal
with some single disaster - flood or earthquake.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Always apologizing and explaining themselves: I don't see e.g. Dutch
> >> or France do not explaining their SS except in footnotes (and btw they
> >> treat them radically differently) - Baltics on the other hand write
> >> books, issuing Government statements why and how it happened. Denmark
> >> meanwhile pay pensions to its SS veterans - like SO WHAT? It is a time (
> >> I said it before I think) - for Baltics to learn how to say to
> >> everybody from outside who thinks that they are a target of convenience
> >> - "I listened with Great Attention what you said and this is what I
> >> think : Go Fuck Yourself." (TM - Vladimir Putin). But you are so f***
> >> civilized you just do not have a nerve. Hire Rogosin or me.
> >> I think the Baltics should stop saying "we are as Western Europe as
> >> Western Europe is". Instead should start to say " We are Baltics, We are
> >> Unique and Special, a Gem of the Continent".
>
> > There is a big difference in attitude towards former SS men in France,
> > Danemark etc in one side and in Baltics for the other side. For first
> > group, Nazi Germany was the enemy, so freiwillige in SS fight for
> > enemy against their own people. For Baltics, enemu no 1 was Soviet
> > Union, so fighting in Waffes-SS was taken as fighting on side of an
> > ally against main enemy.
>
> But Russians will never buy it even if there is truth in it. These two
> letters "SS" cause physiological reaction in Russians. 20 mln dead
> civilians didn't just happen, it was Nazi's POLICY. We got conditioned
> by SS: Brain stops to work, we just shoot. I am not calling you to
> accommodate but think.
But we don't "sell" our understanding to Russia. "Brains stops to
work, we just shoot" - attitude is perfect for both SS and KGB units
in their original meaning.
>
> >> Just lazy thoughts on Sunday afternoon.
>
> >> But of course I will continue to bash you at any opportunity. Till you
> >> put a Rogosin-like in charge. Which looks just happened in Lithuania. (I
> >> read a bit about her - she is a razor sharp mind and no string attached
> >> tongue).
>
> > Rogozin is a funny guy - but hardly good choice for an country as big
> > and important as Russia.
>
> What I like about him (I am skeptical about him if generally) that you
> cannot shut him up - he speaks without PC and never stops despite
> consequences. You cannot take from him a sense of acid humor and rich
> educational background. Besides he cares about Russians, - at least
> somebody tries.
> This is what I hope this Lady in Lithuania will do: will say - "you EU
> suck, you US suck and you Russia suck big time. Now let's negotiate."
Unhappily such words are reserved for leaders of coutries with
population in hundreds (in some cases tens) of millions. I don't think
our attitude is too important in our relations - till Putin needs
2harmless enemies", we will be, at least in russian media.
>
> VM.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> But we Russkies will not change our evil paths until you change yours.
> >> As I said - lazy slow thoughts on Sunday afternoon. Contemplation.
>
> >> VM.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Incognito
I miss the naivete of the Mid 20th century....
Vladimir Makarenko
I talked to children - they say "let's leave"!
>>
>>
>>> No, pig's "Ego game"
>>>> ("they should crawl on their knees and beg"). Everywhere I look I see
>>>> dumb and criminal morons.
>>>> But I believe in individuals not as idea but as experimental data.
>>>> Baltics as I see suffer from inferiority and insecurity complex. Hence
>>>> the all attitude towards Russia, "Russian" minorities, looking up from
>>>> standing on their knees at the Magnificent West. And nobody asks the
>>>> simple question - if e.g. France was under Soviets as long as Baltics
>>>> were on what step of staircase vs Baltics the France would stand today?
>>> don't know much about "Baltics", for Estonia there was a simple idea:
>>> to deal with Russia like finns do. Good-bad, who knows but working
>>> solution. It was rejected by Russia.
>> But you don't, look how cool ,calculating and predictable Finns are and
>> how impulsive your are. Russian want to caress their Ego - give them
>> that: Oh, you Russians are so Good so Big. Now Give us some money.
>
> Well, such business plan will never work -
That's what you say - Try me as a President.
> even Nauru will learn it.
> sole way to be wealthy is to produce wealthy life - no one can "give"
> you for living for eternity.
Nobody around is asking for anything but favorable terms.
>> Instead you still are trying to sting them anytime you get a chance.
>
> Basically not. most "angry words from Baltics" are find from third
> sort newspapers - and then used as "Baltic accusations". Putin needs
> some enemies - and small ones make more sense then those with bigger
> economies/impact on world politics.
>
Vello today the guys in charge of Russia are very pragmatic - dance this.
They are not nice but pragmatic. Calculate, predict them, it is your
country your care.
>
>> What I think is plain stupid: the idea is to get your people to live
>> well not to feel proud while sitting in a cold house without bread on table.
>> Btw, as slippery the estimate as it is - Russian income is way over the
>> one you give. In price index adjusted it is today about the same as in
>> Baltics, at least if we talk about cities' population.
>
> I don't know prices in Russia - journalists I met on regular basis are
> from Moscow - St. Pete and (except gasoline) prices there are about
> the same we have - or even higher. Pensions are quite miserable. May
> be wrong, but my basic knowledge is from journalists from Russia
> himself. But point is not in numbers. for a person, there is just one
> who can "help you" effectively - you himself, others don't have enough
> motivation. Same for nations. International help is useful to deal
> with some single disaster - flood or earthquake.
I just do not know. I am sure that income is lower than in Baltics but
not multiple.
You probably on more solid ground than I am, I talk to them over Skype
etc. Just have no clue.
I'll be back.
VM
vello
to make picture more attractive. My point was just to show that
"helping" nations better off then Russia itself would be pointless.
Vladimir Makarenko
I just always feel uneasy when such comparison comes: one has to
compare countries of the same scale, otherwise one can always cheat and
draw a comparison with desirable result: compare some god forgotten
place in Russia to Baltics - here you get multiple incomes. Or compare
Moscow , Tyumen' or gold washed Khanty Mansiisk (been there in Soviet
times - they had hot water for two hours in the morning, on a good day).
Baltics will look like UN neglected zones of disaster.
I am trying to say that in comparison (hah?) Russia is so non
homogeneous that it has to be analyzed on the case by case basis.
Some stories from there just do not fit Euro way of thinking. Volgograd
region now got ~ 200,000 Chechen peasant migrants - because the wife of
the governor is a Chechen. And no problems, somehow live together along
Russians (and Ukrainians - in the North there is region of migrants from
Ukraine they still speak the language) except occasional fights between
young idiots,- no ethnic animosity. It maybe not a news to you - but
Volgograd remembers how its battalion mostly wounded was butchered in
first Chechen war at Grozny rail station building.
Russia is a very strange country. A home to impossible.
VM.
Vladimir Makarenko
Not that I imply that you try to cheat in any way - but mistakes almost
are inevitable if you go down this path.
vello
>
may happily start his small business just reading law book, without
need to bribe local lords. Hard, but how much I hear from Medvedev, it
is one of top priorities in Russia now.
Vladimir Makarenko
Taxes is more or less solved problem. Law is not: when officers of law
go on youtube it only means that the system is in disarray to put it
mildly.
http://www.gazeta.ru/social/2009/11/17/3288369.shtml
VM.
vello
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well there was still multiple difference at Feb 2009: medium pensions
in Russia were about three times less then in Estonia 3500 RUR v 4800
EEK (of course if data for Russia was correct)
Dmitry
> >> rode the wave of anger, and there was my Russia - "like it was not
> >> enough they now kick our dead".
> >> I stay where I told Vello - you have a problem with the monument - work
> >> on it. Communist methods: no monument - no problem IS not a solution.
> >> Remember Commies exploded the biggest Church in Moscow.
> >> It is now rebuilt.
>
> > Yes, but Estonians didn't blow up the monument, just moved it to a
> > different nearby location.
>
> Dima the situation is very simple - it is not to the nation which
> celebrates Nazis to decide where the Soviet dead has to stay.
> End of story.
Estonia doesn't "celebrate Nazis". Besides, it is on Estonian
territory and should be non of Russia's business.
> We Russians DO NOT TELL them how to build their society today even
> though we as always rich on ideas but- just DO NOT TOUCH OUR DEAD.
Soviet army consisted of various ethnic origins and many were coming
from outside RSFSR. There is no harm to Russians by moving a monument
to a more appropriate location.
> > I guess this is the fate of small and weak states. They have to fit
> > somewhere in order to survive? But, I think the main problem is
> > mismanagement or resources and power (however small it may be).
>
> I don't believe that today "small and weak" is an excuse. It is not XIX
> cent or the XX th anyway. Time for "small and weak" to growl.
Yes, the size doesn't matter so much these days, but without
economical strength growling can't be very effective.
> > I do try avoiding stereotypes, but sometimes it comes out. Of course
> > I know that Russia consists of various people, beliefs and traditions.
>
> What I was trying to say - for better or worse there is some unwritten
> agreement between all ethnic groups - a balance of interests which was
> build for centuries by violence, blackmail, trade, this and that but
> somehow it balanced the whole huge number of nations and tribes on
> Russia's territory in rather robust equilibrium. Apart from that, Russia
> is indifferent to racial/ethnic matters - I challenge you or whoever
> decide to answer: find me any government in EU which composed of so many
> ethnicities as the Russian one. As a matter of fact I can tell you in
> advance - you will not.
Of course Russia has more ethnic groups than any EU country. So has
China and India. EU countries are much smaller in size.
Vladimir Makarenko
OK, the question will be very simple: PPI please.
Vello, part of my siblings live in very rich part of Russia - St
Petersburg, the other in rather moderate income - Volgograd: cost of
life is as different as NYC vs Midwest.
The numbers you give just doesn't make sense.
I just ask you to make appropriate adjustments.
Every time you compare average Estonian income to average Russian -
introduce a proper coefficient to adjust it according to the region. You
don't believe me - ask your people. I am not trying to cheat you.
Now - I understand that on median - Estonians as a national group
including your Russians live better: now forget about it - you cannot
ask your local Russians to measure themselves against Russians in other
country or your have to leave a hope that they ever became a part of
your country. Your chose.
VM.
VM.
vello
???? I don't ask them anything? My post was about imaginable Russian
help to Estonia.
vello
space) - Tallinn is a transport hub, so goods are cheaper here then in
shops of backward places.
Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins)
Laimīgu Jauno gadu, laimingų Naujųjų Metų, head Uut Aastat, с Новым
годом, etc.!
I haven't really abandoned the group -- I do read the threads now and
then. I see you're all (most of you) still at it!
/P
vello
Not too interesting topics for a long time. One reason for sure is
lack of some Cedrins here ;-)
Laimigu Jauno Gadu!!!
Dmitry
Happy New Year!!! Good to hear from you.
Vladimir Makarenko
We try. Indeed sometimes I read this group and feel I am reading a good
old book: everybody in place - Vidas bashes Tadas, Tadas upset about
Poles, Vello thinks Putin is a Satan, Karlamov as usual, Daniloff and me
complain each other on the bitter fate of living with cats, John as
usual finds faults in logic, Dima is a peacenik, I still think how to
get into Latvia's president chair, Anton (how in the world a Finn got
Checkov's name?) tries to make everybody to behave reasonably (good luck
with that!) - I am writing on a run so memory works faulty - if I forgot
somebody - not my fault - of my memory.
Happy 2010!
VM.
Maris
<vma...@nospamgmail.com> wrote:
>Dmitry wrote:
>> Yes, but Estonians didn't blow up the monument, just moved it to a
>> different nearby location.
>
>Dima the situation is very simple - it is not to the nation which
>celebrates Nazis to decide where the Soviet dead has to stay.
>End of story.
>We Russians DO NOT TELL them how to build their society today even
>though we as always rich on ideas but- just DO NOT TOUCH OUR DEAD.
>
>>
Sorry to see you crawling back into your Sovok skin Vlad. The
Estonians do not celebrate Nazis as you well know, they were simply
the front line against an army of rapists and pillagers. They are
lucky that the monument to them was only moved.
Maris
Vladimir Makarenko
Look - the situation is very simple - were we wrong or right - do not
touch our dead. You can have all opinions about us - "rapists,
pillagers", etc but all We ask - scream at us do not kick the bones. In
every culture around the world it is "unusual".
As to my "Sovok skin" - I grew up there, I will never get out of it, and
proud of that. If not for us - you would live today under Nazis.
If you would still live, - you know - they had their plans for you too.
Anyway - Happy 2010.
Just trying to cool down.
VM.
Vidas
wrote:
"Bash" sounds so - provincial...I prefer - Vidas highlights Gintas'
loving dedication to hypocrisy.
Happy New Year wishes to the SCB collective. Including the new Shit-
cargo-ite.
Vidas
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Dec 31 2009, 12:00 pm, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Pēteris Cedriņš (Peteris Cedrins) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Laimīgu Jauno gadu, laimingų Naujųjų Metų, head Uut Aastat, с Новым
>>> годом, etc.!
>>> I haven't really abandoned the group -- I do read the threads now and
>>> then. I see you're all (most of you) still at it!
>>> /P
>> We try. Indeed sometimes I read this group and feel I am reading a good
>> old book: everybody in place - Vidas bashes Tadas, Tadas upset about
>> Poles, Vello thinks Putin is a Satan, Karlamov as usual, Daniloff and me
>> complain each other on the bitter fate of living with cats, John as
>> usual finds faults in logic, Dima is a peacenik, I still think how to
>> get into Latvia's president chair, Anton (how in the world a Finn got
>> Checkov's name?) tries to make everybody to behave reasonably (good luck
>> with that!) - I am writing on a run so memory works faulty - if I forgot
>> somebody - not my fault - of my memory.
>>
>> Happy 2010!
>>
>> VM.
>
> "Bash" sounds so - provincial...
Vidas - in no way I tried to get after you. It is just my imperfect
English. I just look at two of you - Tadas and You and can't make sense
you are such a small nation - we Russians can argue - you guys cannot,
you have to stick to each other. There only few of you.
You have evry much value each other, not fight each other - we Rooskies
can afford this luxury, you cannot.
I maybe go where I don't belong - I still think - you are belong to each
other, so stand to each other.
VM.
Vidas
Andrius Burlega is the opposite but essentially drawn from the same
cloth as Gintas.
Should I stand together with Andrius - just because ?
I appreciate the sentiment Vlad, but the vision I have of a
progressive and productive Lithuania going forward excludes both of
them for essentially the same reason. I'm certainly not alone in
understanding that the viewpoints of Gintas and Andrius offer no
future for Lithuania.
And, I'll note, both Andrius and Gintas no longer live in Lithuania by
choice.
Vidas
Vladimir Makarenko
What is wrong with you Balts - you are such idealists, every time like I
am reading a Tolstoy when reading you: Either be a Perfect or None - is
your slogan.
So what somebody is imperfect. Time and life will correct. But you have
to remember how only few of you are around. And I do believe Lithuania
will be all right.- It made it through centuries (millenniums) it will
cope with few problems today. Besides you got a really smart president
now.
Anyway - just New Year wishes and hopes.
Happy 2010.
Hope you are OK.
VM.
Tadas Blinda
barked:
WOOF!
(As usual, nobody noticed or paid any attention.)
Tadas Blinda
> What is wrong with you Balts - you are such idealists, every time like I
> am reading a Tolstoy when reading you: Either be a Perfect or None - is
> your slogan.
There are a lot of good, intelligent, honest Lithuanians. Don't judge
all of us by one miserable neurotic who has nothing better to do in
his dreary life than obsess about other people and try to do them dirt
at every turn for no good reason other than his own internal
emptiness.
> So what somebody is imperfect. Time and life will correct. But you have
> to remember how only few of you are around. And I do believe Lithuania
> will be all right.- It made it through centuries (millenniums) it will
> cope with few problems today. Besides you got a really smart president
> now.
Ironic that I hear this from you will someone who claims to be from my
ethnic background just barks like a demented dog. Yes, Lithuania will
get over this crisis and in the long run it will be a quasi-
Scandinavian country.
> Anyway - just New Year wishes and hopes.
> Happy 2010.
Vam tože.
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Jan 2, 6:28 am, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What is wrong with you Balts - you are such idealists, every time like I
>> am reading a Tolstoy when reading you: Either be a Perfect or None - is
>> your slogan.
>
> There are a lot of good, intelligent, honest Lithuanians.
This I know very well: Lithuanians command the elite theaters in Moscow
not for being "exotic".
I ask a different question - I watch this feud between you two and
cannot see WHY?
I know - it is not my business to put my nose in that, but just upset -
you both are intelligent individuals, even from very different
background. Just take a pause.
> Don't judge
> all of us by one miserable neurotic who has nothing better to do in
> his dreary life than obsess about other people and try to do them dirt
> at every turn for no good reason other than his own internal
> emptiness.
OK, Vidas is not the way you describe him. He is much much different.
Sometimes in fire of emotions we speak angrily: remember I was bitching
about you too. AND about Vidas. What I regret. Let's cool down.
>
>> So what somebody is imperfect. Time and life will correct. But you have
>> to remember how only few of you are around. And I do believe Lithuania
>> will be all right.- It made it through centuries (millenniums) it will
>> cope with few problems today. Besides you got a really smart president
>> now.
>
> Ironic that I hear this from you will someone who claims to be from my
> ethnic background just barks like a demented dog. Yes, Lithuania will
> get over this crisis and in the long run it will be a quasi-
> Scandinavian country.
May I bark at you as a demented dog? Baltics have to stop to look up to
Scandinavia or whoever- you are Baltics and should claim loudly your
identity: We Are Baltics. Not Scandinavia or whatever. You made it out
of the Empire. Now time came to say - We Are who we are, those who
doesn't like this - fuck off! Look at us Russians - every second word in
our language is "fuck off". You however still measure yourself against
your failures, not achievements.
You need a Putin.
>
>> Anyway - just New Year wishes and hopes.
>> Happy 2010.
>
> Vam tože.
>
Spasibo.
VM.
Tadas Blinda
> I ask a different question - I watch this feud between you two and
> cannot see WHY?
> I know - it is not my business to put my nose in that, but just upset -
> you both are intelligent individuals, even from very different
> background. Just take a pause.
Thank goodness I have a lot of sanity-saving translating to do, which
I will shortly get back to, but re the above, NO, you are wrong. One
intelligent individual posts worthwhile contributions to SCB while the
other just barks like a distempered dog and post vile ad hominem
rubbish. (Which he will do in response to this. He can't help
himself. His personality problem is beyond the scope of medical/
pharmaceutical intervention.)
> May I bark at you as a demented dog? Baltics have to stop to look up to
> Scandinavia or whoever- you are Baltics and should claim loudly your
> identity: We Are Baltics. Not Scandinavia or whatever. You made it out
> of the Empire. Now time came to say - We Are who we are, those who
> doesn't like this - fuck off! Look at us Russians - every second word in
> our language is "fuck off". You however still measure yourself against
> your failures, not achievements.
> You need a Putin.
We don't pine to be pseudo-Scandinavians. I was merely referring to a
benchmark: the Scandinavian countries being the most civilised in the
world under every criterion.
50 years of Soviet occupation did enormous damage to the mental and
moral fibre of Lithuania. I see now that it will take at least 50
years to undo it. We are less than half way there. This crisis could
turn out to be a blessing in disguise. In Lithuania it put a lot of
maladministration and corruption under the microscope, which may not
have been dealt with otherwise. My heart bleeds for the struggling
unemployed and pensioners on laughable incomes. But we've faced worse
in the past and I'm convinced there are better days ahead.
No, we definitely do not need a Putin. We need an indigenous person
of substance not following any foreign model who is determined to
fight maladministration and corruption. I am reserving judgement on
Grybauskaitė, still hoping ...
Now back to work. Junkyard dog woofing shall remain unread and
unresponded to.
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Jan 2, 8:18 am, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I ask a different question - I watch this feud between you two and
>> cannot see WHY?
>> I know - it is not my business to put my nose in that, but just upset -
>> you both are intelligent individuals, even from very different
>> background. Just take a pause.
>
> Thank goodness I have a lot of sanity-saving translating to do, which
> I will shortly get back to, but re the above, NO, you are wrong. One
> intelligent individual posts worthwhile contributions to SCB while the
> other just barks like a distempered dog and post vile ad hominem
> rubbish. (Which he will do in response to this. He can't help
> himself. His personality problem is beyond the scope of medical/
> pharmaceutical intervention.)
You are stubborn like a child. Even if you angry at him - take a pause.
He is a very sensible guy. You just accidentally stepped on each other.
Either you do it as in LA when you hit other guy car - get out, open a
trunk, get a gun and start to shoot or you can do this as in Vermont: I
am sorry (even if it was his fault)- are you OK?
>
>> May I bark at you as a demented dog? Baltics have to stop to look up to
>> Scandinavia or whoever- you are Baltics and should claim loudly your
>> identity: We Are Baltics. Not Scandinavia or whatever. You made it out
>> of the Empire. Now time came to say - We Are who we are, those who
>> doesn't like this - fuck off! Look at us Russians - every second word in
>> our language is "fuck off". You however still measure yourself against
>> your failures, not achievements.
>> You need a Putin.
>
> We don't pine to be pseudo-Scandinavians. I was merely referring to a
> benchmark: the Scandinavian countries being the most civilised in the
> world under every criterion.
Hah, New Zealand and Finland are. The Scans are way behind.
I never been to Finland - just their airport, waiting for few hours for
connect flight. Felt myself so out of place - no wonder - one who goes
from NYC to Moscow does that something is strange in Helsinki airport:
no police with machine guns, no frisk searchers, - very undeveloped
country. As I heard they don't even take bribes. Savages.
Or just watched a documentary about New Zealand Story - I can tell you
- quite a story- a guy (an adult) went for a swim with four teens - and
a group of dolphins found out that a great white is going after them and
hold them guarded for about 45 minutes in open sea till the white left.
In New Zealand even Dolphins are humanitarians.
>
> 50 years of Soviet occupation did enormous damage to the mental and
> moral fibre of Lithuania. I see now that it will take at least 50
> years to undo it. We are less than half way there.
I don't really want to touch this topic today - because we'll start to
yell at each other as usual. Still I think - on Lithuania side or
Russian - we made it through WWII. Alive. Everything else is secondary.
We will fix it.
This crisis could
> turn out to be a blessing in disguise. In Lithuania it put a lot of
> maladministration and corruption under the microscope, which may not
> have been dealt with otherwise. My heart bleeds for the struggling
> unemployed and pensioners on laughable incomes.
Go see the movie "Up in the air". You may think that Americans are not
sensitive - half of my impression came from the audience, I heard this
special sound when people were sighing. This crisis hit everybody,
except scumbags from Wall Street. (I sometimes feel like Lenin).
> But we've faced worse
> in the past and I'm convinced there are better days ahead.
Of course you will, besides even today I think you do - beautiful
country, peace, brains and education.
>
> No, we definitely do not need a Putin. We need an indigenous person
> of substance not following any foreign model who is determined to
> fight maladministration and corruption. I am reserving judgement on
> Grybauskaitė, still hoping ...
I hope and bet on her too - she looks like a very determined "I buy no
crap" lady. Besides she knows how EU works - so she knows the right
buttons to push.
>
> Now back to work. Junkyard dog woofing shall remain unread and
> unresponded to.
Stop it. There are no dogs around. Just people who misinterpret each other.
Oh, - I love dogs.
VM.
Incognito
"Vladimir Makarenko" <vma...@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:EZydnaahFMU6HrjW...@giganews.com...
> Skip it if you think it has any value.
>
> It took quite a time for the picture to crystallize in my brain: the
> global crisis helped. Baltics today is a beloved child of yellow press
> morons - "Failed Economies of failed EE states of EU".
> Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too -
> being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but much
> different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your mouth
> shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't. I am a
> Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned from him
> quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
> I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
> animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
> and criminal morons.
> But I believe in individuals not as idea but as experimental data.
> Baltics as I see suffer from inferiority and insecurity complex. Hence
> the all attitude towards Russia, "Russian" minorities, looking up from
> standing on their knees at the Magnificent West. And nobody asks the
> simple question - if e.g. France was under Soviets as long as Baltics were
> apologizing and explaining themselves: I don't see e.g. Dutch or France do
> not explaining their SS except in footnotes (and btw they treat them
> radically differently) - Baltics on the other hand write books, issuing
> Government statements why and how it happened. Denmark meanwhile pay
> pensions to its SS veterans - like SO WHAT? It is a time ( I said it
> before I think) - for Baltics to learn how to say to everybody from
> outside who thinks that they are a target of convenience - "I listened
> with Great Attention what you said and this is what I think : Go Fuck
> Yourself." (TM - Vladimir Putin). But you are so f*** civilized you just
> do not have a nerve. Hire Rogosin or me.
> I think the Baltics should stop saying "we are as Western Europe as
> Western Europe is". Instead should start to say " We are Baltics, We are
> Unique and Special, a Gem of the Continent".
>
> Just lazy thoughts on Sunday afternoon.
>
> But of course I will continue to bash you at any opportunity. Till you put
> a Rogosin-like in charge. Which looks just happened in Lithuania. (I read
> a bit about her - she is a razor sharp mind and no string attached
> tongue).
> But we Russkies will not change our evil paths until you change yours.
> As I said - lazy slow thoughts on Sunday afternoon. Contemplation.
>
> VM.
I think all small countries (rex publics) should unite into a Union of Small
Rex Publics (USRP). Yes We Can :-)
We could even rent the .SU domain from the Russians (Small's Union). What
d'ya think?
Sin Cerely
Vladimir Makarenko
idea. Because they will not be big anymore. And I can assure you - they
would not like This Idea.
VM.
> Sin Cerely
>
>
Vidas
Vlad, I never knew you'd take up a second career as divorce counselor
- but appreciate that my case with Gintas is hopeless. I've never been
divorced before though.
> And I do believe Lithuania
> will be all right.- It made it through centuries (millenniums) it will
> cope with few problems today. Besides you got a really smart president
> now.
Lithuania will. And it needs to find its path by itself. Anyone
claiming that the Baltics will be on the order of Scandinavia is
delusional. Seriously delusional.
I dont have to post old news articles to SCB with attribution removed
(as if anyone would believe for a second that Gintas wrote it anyway)
to create some facade of ego driven relevance. I dont live my life
thinking that forums have to constantly hear from me. Many of the
articles Gintas posts arent in a language even remotely relevant to
SCB - an accusation that Gintas enjoys hurling at others. He's as
irrelevant as Karla and as poisonous as Andrius. When I heard Gintas
moved to the US from his extended tourist stint in Lithuania - I was
happy to hear that Kaunas would no longer be subject to him. His
Aussie accent apparently doesnt translate to the female giggles in
Lithuanian as effectively it does in English.
Gintas is desperately trying to project some idea that I'm all about
ad hominem attacks and he's all about - something else yet to be
identified.... Well, after Gintas told an elderly woman that I know
from another forum to go "sit on a bottle" after she bested him in an
argument - well, he's not worthy of any serious consideration as a
dignified man.
Gintas is all about Gintas. His linguistic foreplay and claims of
being some uber patriot are a facade. He left Lithuania likely because
it ended up scaring him - just like the scores of US expats I know who
tried the same thing. It's a beautiful place to visit - but its very
hard to live there.
Gintas oddly believes that "alot of maladministration and corrupution
has been put under the microscope" ? Where ? Is he serious ? What I
find totally dreary about the emigre drone going on and on about "50
years of soviet occupation" blah blah blah is that it conveniently
ignores that Lithuania has been independent for 20 years now and -
regardless of the efforts of many well meaning emigres - is still a
mess. The soviet union is gone. The russians are no longer ruling
Vilnius and Lithuania. This "blame the soviets and rooskies" blather
is a ridiculously overused and pathetic crutch that no one believes in
anymore. Except Gintas apparently.
As long as Gintas gets what he wants he doesnt care who he hurts along
the way. I'm a junkyard dog to him out of convenience. He has to
answer to what I occasionally post in some fashion and this is the
only response he could think of. "Junkyard dog woofing shall remain
unread and unresponded to."
Yet he does - every time. There is no possibility that Gintas would
not read something someone writes about him.
My only response has been - I challenge Gintas to point out where I'm
wrong. He'll go woof woof. I'll continue to articulate how he's wrong
time and time again.
Vidas
Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr.
>
> I think all small countries (rex publics) should unite into a Union of Small
> Rex Publics (USRP). Yes We Can :-)
>
Rex - that's "King" in Latin, right?
So, "rex public" probably means "monarchy", logical?
>
> We could even rent the .SU domain from the Russians (Small's Union). What
> d'ya think?
>
If you get 27 such republics together, you can call yourselves "Su-27"
or "Flankers".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-27
>
> Sin Cerely
>
Plobabry but not nececelery.
Anton
> I think all small countries (rex publics) should unite into a Union of Small
> Rex Publics (USRP).
Why? So that together small countries get more "muscle"? If that is what
you want you'd have to centralize and consolidate power to some central
government away from the national governments. That is by the way
exactly what EU is doing. The challenges, difficulties of such a body is
evident to everybody. What you are proposing is basically a EU without
Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland and UK.
Such a "Union of Small Countries" would only be much weaker than the EU,
but still be arguing and pulling the rope to opposite directions as much
as EU of today.
--
Anton
Vidas
time and time again."
Actually, on second thought...
Since it rather creeps me out that Gintas is local to me now - you
guys can have him.
Vidas
Tadas Blinda
Final footnote to the not-worth-wasting-the-time-on Vidas creature.
On Jan 2 in a reply to Vladimir Makarenko I wrote:
> One of us posts worthwhile contributions to SCB while the
> other just barks like a distempered dog and posts vile ad hominem
> rubbish. (Which he will do in response to this. He can't help
> himself.)
Sure enough, like I said, he couldn't help himself. I see his name of
the list next to Jan 4, but I did not read his worthless drivel and
never will again. Bark on, oh junkie ...
Maris
<vma...@nospamgmail.com> wrote:
Happy New Year to you too!
Maris
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Jan 2, 6:44 pm, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com> wrote:
>
> Vlad, I never knew you'd take up a second career as divorce counselor
> - but appreciate that my case with Gintas is hopeless. I've never been
> divorced before though.
Because you both destroy another Myth populating our Rooskies so rich by
Myths Minds: The people in small countries "live in harmony and love
each other". Russians always point a finger across the border and say :
look at them and look at us...- Stop shooting brethren Russians for
Christ sake, try to be a Lithuanian...
So, it was just very self serving attempt to preserve national psycho myth.
But frankly this is what I think - you two came from such different
backgrounds that you just ignore each other in a hostile way. I am more
close to you in views - I also grew in a big city with violence. But I
on other hand - I recently heard somebody said - one leg in a dark the
other in a boat - I *think* I understand Tadas. What I think - may be a
day come when you both become older you give a chance to each other.
Not to destroy my Rooskie myth about small peaceful countries.
This is just an inquiry - I still trying to make sense of American
politics - I can explain what is going in Russia if wake up in the
middle of the night but still feel dumb when turns like this week
outburst of Steel happens.
VM.
Vidas
wrote:
> Vidas wrote:
> > On Jan 2, 6:44 pm, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Vlad, I never knew you'd take up a second career as divorce counselor
> > - but appreciate that my case with Gintas is hopeless. I've never been
> > divorced before though
> Myths Minds: The people in small countries "live in harmony and love
> each other". Russians always point a finger across the border and say :
> look at them and look at us...- Stop shooting brethren Russians for
> Christ sake, try to be a Lithuanian...
> So, it was just very self serving attempt to preserve national psycho myth.
My disagreements with Gintas have nothing to do with our heritage in
general. I'm an American of Lithuanian descent. Gintas is a Canadian/
Australian of Lithuanian descent. Neither of us are Lithuanians per se
- at least not by my definition. I am a citizen of the Lithuanian
Republic - as is Gintas I believe. We both value the Lithuanian
language and Lithuanian history dearly.
I have issue with Gintas in the strongest of terms with his attitude
toward Lithuanias minorities - Poles, Russians, Jews, etc. In my
opinion, Lithuania is a stronger nation with them. Gintas rails
against Poles and Russians consistently. This antagonism that Gintas
brings forth undermines the Lithuanian Republic. A Republic that has
fostered other languages and nationalities for hundreds of years.
Then there's Gintas' historical anti Yankee facade. Facade now given
that he presently lives in the US. I fully expect this is a
transitional state for him. As I remarked before - I have a hard time
believing Gintas didnt burst into flame the moment he stepped foot in
the US.
Our disagreement isnt defined by our Lithuanian heritage. It's defined
by everything else.
>
> But frankly this is what I think - you two came from such different
> backgrounds that you just ignore each other in a hostile way. I am more
> close to you in views - I also grew in a big city with violence. But I
> on other hand - I recently heard somebody said - one leg in a dark the
> other in a boat - I *think* I understand Tadas. What I think - may be a
> day come when you both become older you give a chance to each other.
> Not to destroy my Rooskie myth about small peaceful countries.
Yes, Gintas and I come from different backgrounds - neither being
Lithuanian by definition. We werent born there. Our Lithuanian
identities were nurtured as the children of emigres forced to flee
Lithuania because of war. Some ended up in the US, as my family did.
Others ended up in Canada, South America, Australia, etc. Others
remained in Europe. Where we ended up spending our formative years
certainly colored our experiences as the children of Lithuanian
emigres. Maybe the nature of our Lithuanian families separates Gintas
and me. Maybe the circumstances of our upbringing in very different
places creates the divide that feeds the anger that Gintas presents in
general. I cant speak for his bitterness.
After 10+ years - honestly I dont care anymore. Gintas is a
historically nasty person and is morally corrupt. Its in my best
interest to break all contact with him.
I've found other forums that I feel foster our essential exchange
better Vlad. SCB, as Gintas proclaimed recently, is a graveyard. Why
SCB has become a crossposted spam graveyard is a question I dont
expect he'll address.
>
> This is just an inquiry - I still trying to make sense of American
> politics - I can explain what is going in Russia if wake up in the
> middle of the night but still feel dumb when turns like this week
> outburst of Steel happens.
>
> VM.
Steel is a liability and a compelling figure..He makes problematic
statements - but these same statements keep the RNC in the news. How
you may take his words depends on your view of the Republican Party.
Hero or villain. Both bring attention.
Vidas
Vladimir Makarenko
This kinda funny on a tragic background - remember few years ago I
thought that you a fresh Lithuanian immigrant? For me somehow both of
you are first Lithuanians and then Americans, Australians - whoever.
> Where we ended up spending our formative years
> certainly colored our experiences as the children of Lithuanian
> emigres. Maybe the nature of our Lithuanian families separates Gintas
> and me. Maybe the circumstances of our upbringing in very different
> places creates the divide that feeds the anger that Gintas presents in
> general. I cant speak for his bitterness.
We have to separate individual traits from national: I think Tadas is
just made this way - he is a loud mouth. I sometimes feel a smile - how
lucky he is - he wouldn't survive in Soviet Union, they would lock him
up, they did not tolerate that loud mouth - they would advice him couple
of times and then lock him up. But this his nature - he just cannot
physiologically to shut up.
>
> After 10+ years - honestly I dont care anymore. Gintas is a
> historically nasty person and is morally corrupt. Its in my best
> interest to break all contact with him.
This is really made me smile and take a deep breath - are we around for
10+ years? Holy smoke.
>
> I've found other forums that I feel foster our essential exchange
> better Vlad. SCB, as Gintas proclaimed recently, is a graveyard.
No, scb is not a graveyard - his complaint was baseless - no Martians
can or should come and make scb a live beating forum, all depends on us.
Where is pelmeni hating Russophobe Holman btw?
Why
> SCB has become a crossposted spam graveyard is a question I dont
> expect he'll address.
You should address it: of all people who writes about Lithuania I read
with attention everything you put, it is not out of politeness but as a
fact.
>
>> This is just an inquiry - I still trying to make sense of American
>> politics - I can explain what is going in Russia if wake up in the
>> middle of the night but still feel dumb when turns like this week
>> outburst of Steel happens.
>>
>> VM.
>
> Steel is a liability and a compelling figure..He makes problematic
> statements - but these same statements keep the RNC in the news. How
> you may take his words depends on your view of the Republican Party.
> Hero or villain. Both bring attention.
I saw him at Penn Station, Indeed because of the nature of my
circumstances - between Penn and NYU Medical center (NYUMC) I saw quite
a few those who are on TV or movies. My highest hit was watching Lisa
Minnelli - drunk and very active, I still worship her Cabaret
performance. I LOVE this woman. So what she drinks? Her choice. Have you
seen the movie? There is really terrifying moment when the Hitler youth
starts to sing "*Tomorrow* Belongs to Us!". Looking in retrospect one
can just have cold sweat understanding what these words of 1934 were
translated into later.
I am as ex Soviet very very concerned that R party is going stupid. God
forbid I again find myself in the single party country. Sometimes I just
feel hopeless - been there done there but it stinks. I have no illusions
about Dems - especially watching them in NY and NJ, - New Orleans in
comparison is Switzerland lawful and uncorrupt.
VM.
Tadas Blinda
wrote:
>
> For me somehow both of you are first Lithuanians and then Americans, Australians - whoever.
That certainly applies to me. I don't give a stuff what the barking
dog thinks. I'm only reading this because it was in Makarenko's post.
Lithuanians in Lithuania understand that the only harmless minorities
there are the ones so small that what they think or how they behave
doesn't matter (Tatars, Karaim, Roma). As for the Poles, Russians and
Jews, anyone who has even a passing acquaintance with Lithuanian
history and society (that rules out the junkyard dog) knows that the
vast majority of the members of these three groups never harboured any
love for Lithuania in their hearts, only resentment. Poles welcomed
Polish occupation and polonisation, Russians welcomed Russian
occupation and russification, and Jews were happy with either of the
above, often being totally unable to speak Lithuanian, unless their
occupation made it necessary.
As for SCB being a graveyard, 'tis true. My meanderings in this
graveyard are a product of (relative) idleness. A big translation job
coming up soon, then my wandering in the graveyard shall cease again.
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Jan 10, 2:07 pm, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com>
> wrote:
>> For me somehow both of you are first Lithuanians and then Americans, Australians - whoever.
>
> That certainly applies to me.
In my mind it applies to both of you. And you should express some
courtesy instead You are barking. For what? For nothing. For your Ego.
Does it worth it? Do you really think that Vidas is your Enemy?
Are that stupid? - We Rosskies are your Enemy. At least Imaginable.
Even we are are not enemies - just bothersome neighbors. I watch right
now a movie - highly recommended, but uneasy however my guess is you
would like it: "Monologue". Try to get it, Very bitter movie.
Shaeakspirean. Lithuanian.
Maris said - "Sovok" - I will die for these people, doesn't matter what,
no questions asked. "Sovok" I am, any more questions?
VM.
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Jan 10, 2:07 pm, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com>
> wrote:
>> For me somehow both of you are first Lithuanians and then Americans, Australians - whoever.
>
> That certainly applies to me. I don't give a stuff what the barking
> dog thinks. I'm only reading this because it was in Makarenko's post.
>
> Lithuanians in Lithuania understand that the only harmless minorities
> there are the ones so small that what they think or how they behave
> doesn't matter (Tatars, Karaim, Roma). As for the Poles, Russians and
> Jews, anyone who has even a passing acquaintance with Lithuanian
> history and society (that rules out the junkyard dog)
here we go- may ask who is "junkyard dog"?
If you count Vidas - count me also: because it is not the way to talk -
referring to somebody as "a dog". Besides my Akita if she still was
around wouldn't like your words choice very much. She was very sensitive.
I miss her every day. Such an open wound.
knows that the
> vast majority of the members of these three groups never harboured any
> love for Lithuania in their hearts, only resentment. Poles welcomed
> Polish occupation and polonisation, Russians welcomed Russian
> occupation and russification, and Jews were happy with either of the
> above, often being totally unable to speak Lithuanian, unless their
> occupation made it necessary.
>
> As for SCB being a graveyard, 'tis true. My meanderings in this
> graveyard are a product of (relative) idleness. A big translation job
> coming up soon, then my wandering in the graveyard shall cease again.
SCB is a graveyard in your mind, as a matter of fact it is not: - you
may draw whatever hooligan conclusions - it is alive and kicking.
And more than that - we work and and make brick by brick History,
I love people around me and they are not Russians, they are of different
origins. And if I may - I advise you so, let it go and just listen to
them, - I do.
VM.
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Jan 10, 2:07 pm, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com>
> wrote:
>> For me somehow both of you are first Lithuanians and then Americans, Australians - whoever.
>
> That certainly applies to me. I don't give a stuff what the barking
> dog thinks. I'm only reading this because it was in Makarenko's post.
Oops- it is a news- last time I was paid I think about $xxx for a
lecture to US Navy about artificial intellect ( here Vello comes
inevitably) Vello - I stand firm - AI has to be a distributed entity.
What I told btw the Navy boys and they Tried it and It worked.
Aha? Who is a Genius?
But I have more ideas, I just need money to test(Suckers don't give
money just for that - you have to come up how you generate more money).
I want e.g. to create a real mind. Very primitive but real.I have an
idea how to do this.
VM.
Vidas
wrote:
> This kinda funny on a tragic background - remember few years ago I
> thought that you a fresh Lithuanian immigrant? For me somehow both of
> you are first Lithuanians and then Americans, Australians - whoever.
I believe the cinematic term is tragicomedy. My contacts with Gintas
the Great can certainly be described as tragicomedies.
I've tried to present my perspective of Lithuanian issues in this
forum years ago. I cant say I'd consider myself Lithuanian first -
that would be disingenuous. I try to make my point of view Lithuania
forward but I cant claim any special title or association beyond my
heritage being what it is.
> This is really made me smile and take a deep breath - are we around for
> 10+ years? Holy smoke.
Thats right Vlad. We're all growing old together..Even Holman will
enter retirement reminding us again and again of how Snieckus saved
us.
> No, scb is not a graveyard - his complaint was baseless - no Martians
> can or should come and make scb a live beating forum, all depends on us.
> Where is pelmeni hating Russophobe Holman btw?
Congratulating himself on this success ?
> You should address it: of all people who writes about Lithuania I read
> with attention everything you put, it is not out of politeness but as a
> fact.
Thats very kind of you Vlad. I very much appreciate that.
> I saw him at Penn Station, Indeed because of the nature of my
> circumstances - between Penn and NYU Medical center (NYUMC) I saw quite
> a few those who are on TV or movies. My highest hit was watching Lisa
> Minnelli - drunk and very active, I still worship her Cabaret
> performance. I LOVE this woman. So what she drinks? Her choice. Have you
> seen the movie? There is really terrifying moment when the Hitler youth
> starts to sing "*Tomorrow* Belongs to Us!". Looking in retrospect one
> can just have cold sweat understanding what these words of 1934 were
> translated into later.
Interesting...At least Minelli has an excuse for her fits of goofy.
We can wait and see if Oliver Stone casts her in what Stone is
remarking to be a new movie that will revisit the Hitler/Stalin
era...Maybe Dom Delouise will be cast as Molotov and he will
reintroduce Burt Reynolds as Himmler ?
>
> I am as ex Soviet very very concerned that R party is going stupid. God
> forbid I again find myself in the single party country. Sometimes I just
> feel hopeless - been there done there but it stinks. I have no illusions
> about Dems - especially watching them in NY and NJ, - New Orleans in
> comparison is Switzerland lawful and uncorrupt.
>
> VM.
The Dems will lose some seats in Congress this election cycle. Nothing
substantial enough to unsettle the current Dem balance of power
though. What I'm interested in is the character of the Republicans who
will win elections. Will they be constitutional moderates ? Or will
the Repub voters continue going further right and seat more Christian
conservatives who have no concept of what legislating means. I'm
hoping the electorate will moderate. We'll see.
Vidas
Vidas
wrote:
> here we go- may ask who is "junkyard dog"?
> If you count Vidas - count me also: because it is not the way to talk -
> referring to somebody as "a dog". Besides my Akita if she still was
> around wouldn't like your words choice very much. She was very sensitive.
> I miss her every day. Such an open wound.
Leave him alone Vlad.. Consider what he just pointed out. Gintas
relegates the Tatars, Karaim, Roma etc to irrelevancy. The Tatars and
Karaim have centuries long history in support of the Lithuanian
nation.
Then he goes on to denigrate the Poles, Russians and Jews - who also
have centuries long histories of contributing to the Lithuanian nation
and identity... Including, very obviously, Gintas' surname.
I wont dignify Gintas' deep rooted anti semitism with a response. It's
certainly not an honest Lithuanian historical sentiment.
Vidas
Vidas
wrote:
"Besides my Akita if she still was
around wouldn't like your words choice very much. She was very
sensitive.
I miss her every day. Such an open wound."
Your Akita was a noble looking dog Vlad. I'm sorry that she's no
longer with you.
Vidas
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Jan 10, 2:07 pm, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This kinda funny on a tragic background - remember few years ago I
>> thought that you a fresh Lithuanian immigrant? For me somehow both of
>> you are first Lithuanians and then Americans, Australians - whoever.
>
> I believe the cinematic term is tragicomedy. My contacts with Gintas
> the Great can certainly be described as tragicomedies.
>
> I've tried to present my perspective of Lithuanian issues in this
> forum years ago. I cant say I'd consider myself Lithuanian first -
> that would be disingenuous. I try to make my point of view Lithuania
> forward but I cant claim any special title or association beyond my
> heritage being what it is.
>
Look I just do not dare to go there because I am not in my right - you
are Liths and I am a Russian, if we go to fight it is one thing, if I
start to advise you (as I started) how to deal with each other
(remember- it was a New Year eve - my excuse)- it is very different. I
would not dare to interfere. So I apologize - none of my business, but I
still keep my opinion: you two fight for nothing. Instead you have to
take care of each other. There are not so many of you left, you have to
take care of each other.
>
>> This is really made me smile and take a deep breath - are we around for
>> 10+ years? Holy smoke.
>
> Thats right Vlad. We're all growing old together..Even Holman will
> enter retirement reminding us again and again of how Snieckus saved
> us.
>
I want to buy a small house in tiny Russian village to retire.
Just a dream - to fish in the morning, making tea - nothing special.
I do not want special fancy cars or whatever, just simple things to come
around. My old books, my old friends and old TV. Almost forgot - scb.
>
>> No, scb is not a graveyard - his complaint was baseless - no Martians
>> can or should come and make scb a live beating forum, all depends on us.
>> Where is pelmeni hating Russophobe Holman btw?
>
> Congratulating himself on this success ?
Where is a Russophobe Holman?
I called him so many times a Russophobe he probably thinks he is one.
>
>
>> You should address it: of all people who writes about Lithuania I read
>> with attention everything you put, it is not out of politeness but as a
>> fact.
>
> Thats very kind of you Vlad. I very much appreciate that.
It is a matter of fact not politeness - I think everybody listens to
what you say. As a matter of Fact. At least I do.
>
>
>> I saw him at Penn Station, Indeed because of the nature of my
>> circumstances - between Penn and NYU Medical center (NYUMC) I saw quite
>> a few those who are on TV or movies. My highest hit was watching Lisa
>> Minnelli - drunk and very active, I still worship her Cabaret
>> performance. I LOVE this woman. So what she drinks? Her choice. Have you
>> seen the movie? There is really terrifying moment when the Hitler youth
>> starts to sing "*Tomorrow* Belongs to Us!". Looking in retrospect one
>> can just have cold sweat understanding what these words of 1934 were
>> translated into later.
>
> Interesting...At least Minelli has an excuse for her fits of goofy.
I juts love this woman - drunk she is or not. I see her - my heart smiles.
I was outside building when I saw her - i didn't even recognize her
first. Then I connected the dots - it is Lisa! I don't care if she is
drunk - you are my girl! And she was drunk like a skunk. I don't care.
She walked with a stance. Very noticeable. I just hope she has pills to
treat the morning.
VM.
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Jan 11, 12:17 am, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> here we go- may ask who is "junkyard dog"?
>> If you count Vidas - count me also: because it is not the way to talk -
>> referring to somebody as "a dog". Besides my Akita if she still was
>> around wouldn't like your words choice very much. She was very sensitive.
>> I miss her every day. Such an open wound.
>
> Leave him alone Vlad..
That is the whole point of scb Vidas - I will never leave him alone. We
came to this group to bother each other. He thinks other nations are
enemies of Lithuania - aha, Germans had similar ideas once. We all know
the end of the road. He is not bad guy, I think he just doesn't
understand where what is the terrible end of the road. He is naive.
Consider what he just pointed out. Gintas
> relegates the Tatars, Karaim, Roma etc to irrelevancy. The Tatars and
> Karaim have centuries long history in support of the Lithuanian
> nation.
>
> Then he goes on to denigrate the Poles, Russians and Jews - who also
> have centuries long histories of contributing to the Lithuanian nation
> and identity... Including, very obviously, Gintas' surname.
>
> I wont dignify Gintas' deep rooted anti semitism with a response. It's
> certainly not an honest Lithuanian historical sentiment.
>
> Vidas
Vidas - I look at him - he is an angry child, he is adult so we have to
restrain him from going violent with his ideas. But He is a child.
At least how I see him.
VM.
Vladimir Makarenko
Thank you.
I spent a whole day giving her a memory - don't know why, just happened.
I remember so clearly her very last day August 4th. You know she came
once and put her head on me just to wake me up. I just stop short when
talking about her - bite my tongue.
But thank you.
VM.
Anton
> Vidas wrote:
>> I've tried to present my perspective of Lithuanian issues in this
>> forum years ago. I cant say I'd consider myself Lithuanian first -
>> that would be disingenuous. I try to make my point of view Lithuania
>> forward but I cant claim any special title or association beyond my
>> heritage being what it is.
> Look I just do not dare to go there because I am not in my right - you
> are Liths and I am a Russian, if we go to fight it is one thing, if I
> start to advise you (as I started) how to deal with each other
> (remember- it was a New Year eve - my excuse)- it is very different. I
> would not dare to interfere. So I apologize - none of my business, but I
> still keep my opinion: you two fight for nothing. Instead you have to
> take care of each other. There are not so many of you left, you have to
> take care of each other.
If you need to find something positive in it: it's a sign of a
functioning, free civil society if different individuals/groups can
argue without anyone being censored or persecuted for their opinion. In
most municipal/city councils there is sometimes bitter arguing in this
country. When nobody argues and decisions are made without debate it is
often a sign to be worried from the perspective of the ordinary citizen.
Arguing and tolerance of opposition can sometimes be ineffective, but in
the long run pluralism is the safest bet for the wish of the people to
be implemented.
Having said that it does not benefit a society when arguing is mostly
personal - the arguments should be about issues. This "junkyard dog -
woof, woof" stuff hardly is the former.
>>> This is really made me smile and take a deep breath - are we around for
>>> 10+ years? Holy smoke.
>> Thats right Vlad. We're all growing old together..Even Holman will
>> enter retirement reminding us again and again of how Snieckus saved
>> us.
> I want to buy a small house in tiny Russian village to retire.
> Just a dream - to fish in the morning, making tea - nothing special.
> I do not want special fancy cars or whatever, just simple things to come
> around. My old books, my old friends and old TV. Almost forgot - scb.
You are not much different from a typical Finn! :)
--
Anton
J. Anderson
"Anton" <anton....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hikhi4$d9q$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Perhaps he should settle down in a tiny Russian village near the (old)
Finnish border. How about Siestarjoki/ Systerbï¿œck/ Sestroretsk?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sestroretsk)
Vladimir Makarenko
You are kidding - my siblings from Piter will be dropping by every other
weekend. And I can assure you - this is a very loud family. They will
scare all fish. But they love me. And I love them.
VM.
J. Anderson
> J. Anderson wrote:
>> Perhaps he should settle down in a tiny Russian village near the (old)
>> Finnish border. How about Siestarjoki/ Systerbï¿œck/ Sestroretsk?
>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sestroretsk)
> You are kidding - my siblings from Piter will be dropping by every other
> weekend.
I might drop by when they're not around. We'd be on the same railroad line.
Vladimir Makarenko
You will be very welcome.
VM.
J. Anderson
> J. Anderson wrote:
>>
>> "Vladimir Makarenko" <vma...@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:SJSdnVuPcKpbYNDW...@giganews.com...
>>> J. Anderson wrote:
>>
>>>> Perhaps he should settle down in a tiny Russian village near the (old)
>>
>>> You are kidding - my siblings from Piter will be dropping by every other
>>> weekend.
>>
>> I might drop by when they're not around. We'd be on the same railroad
>> line.
>
> You will be very welcome.
Thanks ;-) The travel time by train between Helsinki and Piter will soon be
reduced to 3½ hours. But don't forget to send me your address in
Sestroretsk!
P.S. Imants will come too. He wants to tell you about the religion memes.
Vladimir Makarenko
>
> "Vladimir Makarenko" <vma...@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:86KdnbY-NPGUh9PW...@giganews.com...
>> J. Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>> "Vladimir Makarenko" <vma...@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:SJSdnVuPcKpbYNDW...@giganews.com...
>>>> J. Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Perhaps he should settle down in a tiny Russian village near the
>>>>> (old) Finnish border. How about Siestarjoki/ Systerbäck/
>>>>> Sestroretsk? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sestroretsk)
>>>
>>>> You are kidding - my siblings from Piter will be dropping by every
>>>> other weekend.
>>>
>>> I might drop by when they're not around. We'd be on the same railroad
>>> line.
>>
>> You will be very welcome.
>
> Thanks ;-) The travel time by train between Helsinki and Piter will
> soon be reduced to 3½ hours. But don't forget to send me your address in
> Sestroretsk!
>
> P.S. Imants will come too. He wants to tell you about the religion memes.
What is "religion memes" - Memos or Names?
I read recently about Hinduism - what a strange way of worship - they
dance.
VM.
VM.
J. Anderson
No, no: memes. Look here: http://www.memecentral.com/
Very interesting. Black Monk will like it...
> I read recently about Hinduism - what a strange way of worship - they
> dance.
Dancing is not a bad way to worship. Others do it as well: Africans,
Dervishes etc. More fun than Lutheran sulking...
vello
> "Vladimir Makarenko" <vmak...@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:FcGdnU9XO72hv9PW...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > J. Anderson wrote:
>
> >>news:86KdnbY-NPGUh9PW...@giganews.com...
> >>> J. Anderson wrote:
>
> >>>>news:SJSdnVuPcKpbYNDW...@giganews.com...
> >>>>> J. Anderson wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Perhaps he should settle down in a tiny Russian village near the
> >>>>>> (old) Finnish border. How about Siestarjoki/ Systerbäck/ Sestroretsk?
> >>>>>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sestroretsk)
>
> >>>>> You are kidding - my siblings from Piter will be dropping by every
> >>>>> other weekend.
>
> >>>> I might drop by when they're not around. We'd be on the same railroad
> >>>> line.
>
> >>> You will be very welcome.
>
> >> Thanks ;-) The travel time by train between Helsinki and Piter will soon
> >> be reduced to 3½ hours. But don't forget to send me your address in
> >> Sestroretsk!
>
> >> P.S. Imants will come too. He wants to tell you about the religion memes.
>
> > What is "religion memes" - Memos or Names?
>
> No, no: memes. Look here:http://www.memecentral.com/
>
> Very interesting. Black Monk will like it...
>
> > I read recently about Hinduism - what a strange way of worship - they
> > dance.
>
> Dancing is not a bad way to worship. Others do it as well: Africans,
>
Our 1940 commie-"elected" parliament went into Estonian history as
singing one - they sing International, soviet antheme and other commie
songs on any Parliament session - it was new for Estonian political
culture.
lorad
wrote:
> Skip it if you think it has any value.
>
> It took quite a time for the picture to crystallize in my brain: the
> global crisis helped. Baltics today is a beloved child of yellow press
> morons - "Failed Economies of failed EE states of EU".
Everybody failed.. just like russia and serbia have failed... but not
as bad.
At least the Baltics have western style civilization for their
troubles.
> Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too
> - being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
> much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
> mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
> I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
> from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
Cedrins always was too kind to animals... especially unrepentant sovok
monkeys like you.
> I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
> animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
> Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash.
The problem why russia won't help is because it has no money.
All the money has been stolen by its boyar-master class of criminals.
There's nothing left for the average russkie to steal. And they are
angry about it.
That has led to many of ther problem such as russian youth joining
Hilter-Putin groups and stomping foreigners (like you) when they vist
Moskow.
Which is undoubtedly why Holeman and you can never go back there.. or
even want to - for that matter.
daniloff
> On Dec 13 2009, 4:15 pm, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Skip it if you think it has any value.
>
> > It took quite a time for the picture to crystallize in my brain: the
> > global crisis helped. Baltics today is a beloved child of yellow press
> > morons - "Failed Economies of failed EE states of EU".
>
> Everybody failed.. just like russia and serbia have failed... but not
> as bad.
> At least the Baltics have western style civilization for their
> troubles.
Dull-witted crow thinks its own bird fairest
>
> > Cedrins of course helped (for me to put the picture together) a lot too
> > - being an American he is so intolerant to injustice around him (but
> > much different from how I am - I tolerate, I grew up with - "keep your
> > mouth shut" but when the threshold crossed I can go violent, he doesn't.
> > I am a Soviet - he is an American, believes in 9-1-1 call). I learned
> > from him quite a lot. It's a pity he abandoned the group.
>
> Cedrins always was too kind to animals... especially unrepentant sovok
> monkeys like you.
Dull-witted crow stated her poin of wiew.
>
> > I am angry with Russia (happy now?) - doesn't matter there is such
> > animosity between us - Baltics are next door neighbors, weak and poor,
> > Russia should have helped. It has a lot of cash.
>
> The problem why russia won't help is because it has no money.
> All the money has been stolen by its boyar-master class of criminals.
> There's nothing left for the average russkie to steal. And they are
> angry about it.
Yessssss!!!!
Dull-witted crow is right her at last
Vladimir Makarenko
What it invoked in me - today's information side of physics on vacuum -
that out of vacuum theory follows that there are quanta of information
being born or disappearing by Heisenberg principle. Some physicists
argue that immortality of "soul" is nothing else but our individual
imprint on universe with preservation of free will due to Heisenberg
principle of uncertainty.
>
>> I read recently about Hinduism - what a strange way of worship - they
>> dance.
>
> Dancing is not a bad way to worship. Others do it as well: Africans,
> Dervishes etc. More fun than Lutheran sulking...
That is where I run into the wall: primitive religions if they start to
use dancing (what is neuro-physiological conditioning) they stop to
develop, Hindu on other hand went way above. How come?
VM.