Estonia and Euro
Valtsu
Jan 1st, 2011. The Estonian Kroon was pegged to Deutschmark and later
respectively to Euro. I see it as a small miracle that this has worked
throughout the history of the present Kroon.
What implications will the use of Euro as both a measuring unit and
value of payment instruments be on the country?
Vladimir Makarenko
Aren't you already there? I understand that Estonia for quite a while
"virtually" operates on Euro basis. So what could be other consequences
(I am not a professional so buy it or leave it) - that Estonia's economy
will attract more investors who before this formal arrangement were not
sure of guarantees?
VM.
J. Anderson
"Vladimir Makarenko" <vma...@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:w-SdnQoJU_UIgb7W...@giganews.com...
It's mainly a question of security. The Baltic national banks can still
unilaterally unpeg (devaluate) their currencies (there has been pressure in
this direction especially in Latvia), but once you're in the Eurozone,
decisions are taken in Frankfurt, not back home. For a foreign investor
Estonia's final Eurozone membership will guarantee predictability.
vello
> "Vladimir Makarenko" <vmak...@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
Euro seems almost unimportant during most of time after 1991 - a
shining line of fat cow years. But when crisis hit, talks about
possible devaluation made investors a bit nervous so for today I think
Euro is an good idea.
Incognito
You people love when decisions are taken for you elsewhere? Previously
Moscow, briefly Tallinn, now (soon) Frankurt. Perhaps UFO in the future.
Good luck with "low" home prices, heheh... and everything else... Average
rental in Europe now is 80% of the salary... not bad. Still some money left
to pay the bills (or food). The solution is to live 20 guys in one room.
Nice and cozy.
Tatsumaki
"J. Anderson" <ander...@inbox.lv> wrote in message
news:cGKUm.50987$La7....@uutiset.elisa.fi...
Incognito
"vello" <vell...@hot.ee> wrote in message
news:be918603-d15b-48c0...@g7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
vello
> Congratulations with a new master in Frankfurt. Well done. Sehr gut :-))
> You people love when decisions are taken for you elsewhere? Previously
> Moscow, briefly Tallinn, now (soon) Frankurt. Perhaps UFO in the future.
> Good luck with "low" home prices, heheh... and everything else... Average
> rental in Europe now is 80% of the salary... not bad. Still some money left
> to pay the bills (or food). The solution is to live 20 guys in one room.
> Nice and cozy.
>
> Tatsumaki
with incomes as today. Our crisis is mostly real estate crisis.
Salaries are down by 2-3% with the crisis but real estate prices about
two times.
About "master" in Frankfurt, thousands of years people used gold as
money - and you can't "inflate" or "deflate" value of gold in borders
of one separate country. What euro means it is no more feeding banks
and money changers any time you cross trhe border in Europe - temple
will be more clean.
Incognito
Vello, I meant in Europe, not in Estonia alone. One Spaniard writes that his
salary is 1000 EYPOC
while his 1 bedroom flat's monthly rental is 800 EYPOC and he complains he
can't find any cheaper
than that. What he's left is 200 EYPOC per month (after taxes or before
taxes?) to pay for... toilet paper?
Or a rope?
Regarding changing currencies, I did not say that switcging to EYPOC is a
bad idea, no, it's a good idea
and congratulations. What I meant was, you celebrate your new master in
Frankfurt (too much?). Of course
the Frankfurt/Main master is more efficient, than the past one in MOCKBA.
So, congratulations with the new
master, you're to small of a country to have your own master, I guess. Yet I
understand, who cares where the master is from:
Tallinnb or Frankfurt or Delhi or Alpha Centaurii. Master is a Master and we
must obey the Master. Good-bye Kroon.
We will miss you. I especially miss the older French "Franques", they were
so beautiful, but the last series proved ugly
and therefore we won't miss them so much as the earlier, engraved ones.
Still wanna enjoy Francs? Go to Africa or French Pacific Territoires.
Sin Cerely,
Tatsumaki from the Northernmost Southern or Southernmost Northern city in
Europe
Vladimir Makarenko
> "vello" <vell...@hot.ee> wrote in message
> news:e54fb7aa-d714-447d...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 6:46 am, "Incognito" <y...@email.com> wrote:
>> Congratulations with a new master in Frankfurt. Well done. Sehr gut :-))
>> You people love when decisions are taken for you elsewhere? Previously
>> Moscow, briefly Tallinn, now (soon) Frankurt. Perhaps UFO in the future.
>> Good luck with "low" home prices, heheh... and everything else... Average
>> rental in Europe now is 80% of the salary... not bad. Still some money
>> left
>> to pay the bills (or food). The solution is to live 20 guys in one room.
>> Nice and cozy.
>>
>> Tatsumaki
> In fact for Estonia, living space have never been as cheap in compare
> with incomes as today. Our crisis is mostly real estate crisis.
This is a myth, sorry, some sugar on a bitter pill - one cannot take a
component of economy and say this one in crisis: if one is in crisis -
it drags everything else. Real estate maybe most visible but alarm clock
rung long before - remember the bust of market in 2000 with all the
Internet "companies"? The trouble just migrated to real estate.
And if to look at the problem: real estate is just reflection of screwed
up lending system, when money became too cheap.
VM.
vello
> "vello" <vellok...@hot.ee> wrote in message
Or a head/brains if he finds an outlet. 1000 EUR is sad salary for
sure, but if your income is small you must not be too ambitious about
living space. For 800 euros you find fantastic flats in Spain, 200 EUR
per week is normal price for 3 rooms flat on seashore of Southern
Spain during peak season (July-August). I think long time rentals must
be a lot cheaper then prices for summer tourists. btw, that 200 eur
per week includes bed cloth changing, free card to swimming pool, free
barbecue charcoal and some other services. so your friend must left
his villa for more reasonable apartment.
>
> Regarding changing currencies, I did not say that switcging to EYPOC is a
> bad idea, no, it's a good idea
> and congratulations. What I meant was, you celebrate your new master in
> Frankfurt (too much?). Of course
> the Frankfurt/Main master is more efficient, than the past one in MOCKBA.
> So, congratulations with the new
> master, you're to small of a country to have your own master, I guess.
No civilized country feels need for "own master" - last one's were
Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, Franco and Salazar. One day North
Korea, Russia and China will grow up to the same understanding. A
normal "master" for any nation are people living in particular
country.
Yet I
> understand, who cares where the master is from:
> Tallinnb or Frankfurt or Delhi or Alpha Centaurii. Master is a Master and we
> must obey the Master. Good-bye Kroon.
> We will miss you. I especially miss the older French "Franques", they were
> so beautiful, but the last series proved ugly
> and therefore we won't miss them so much as the earlier, engraved ones.
> Still wanna enjoy Francs? Go to Africa or French Pacific Territoires.
>
> Sin Cerely,
>
> Tatsumaki from the Northernmost Southern or Southernmost Northern city in
> Europe
You are from Naples? some people in North Italy think that Naples is
"northernmost Arabic city".
vello
wrote:
> Incognito wrote:
> > "vello" <vellok...@hot.ee> wrote in message
> >news:e54fb7aa-d714-447d...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> > On Dec 13, 6:46 am, "Incognito" <y...@email.com> wrote:
> >> Congratulations with a new master in Frankfurt. Well done. Sehr gut :-))
> >> You people love when decisions are taken for you elsewhere? Previously
> >> Moscow, briefly Tallinn, now (soon) Frankurt. Perhaps UFO in the future.
> >> Good luck with "low" home prices, heheh... and everything else... Average
> >> rental in Europe now is 80% of the salary... not bad. Still some money
> >> left
> >> to pay the bills (or food). The solution is to live 20 guys in one room.
> >> Nice and cozy.
>
> >> Tatsumaki
> > In fact for Estonia, living space have never been as cheap in compare
> > with incomes as today. Our crisis is mostly real estate crisis.
>
> This is a myth, sorry, some sugar on a bitter pill - one cannot take a
> component of economy and say this one in crisis: if one is in crisis -
> it drags everything else. Real estate maybe most visible but alarm clock
> rung long before - remember the bust of market in 2000 with all the
> Internet "companies"? The trouble just migrated to real estate.
> And if to look at the problem: real estate is just reflection of screwed
> up lending system, when money became too cheap.
>
> VM.
problems here. But medium salary buys about twice m2 of living space
in compare with 2006-2007. Surely there is no need to read that data
out of context - but in given case I was replying Incognito's remark
about "enormous" rental prices in Estonia/Europe.
btw, Vladimir, sad, but we see again people who get their
understanding about world affairs solely from agitprop style TV.
Alarming?
Vladimir Makarenko
I again feel like I am living on a different planet: 1,000 Euros is sad?
The US median annual income for household of four (standard unit) is
below $50,000 minus taxes. Make the math. You Euros are fat cats.
VM.
vello
wrote:
> vello wrote:
>
> I again feel like I am living on a different planet: 1,000 Euros is sad?
> The US median annual income for household of four (standard unit) is
> below $50,000 minus taxes. Make the math. You Euros are fat cats.
>
> VM.
Not europeans but Euro. It's exchange rate play. And I think you don't
pay 1,5 dollars per liter of gasoline like I in Estonia or 2-2,5
dollars like in most European countries. Looking prices for
electronics & other consumer goods in US webshops I feel you live in a
paradise.
Vladimir Makarenko
OK, are you talking about Russia or in general?
Doesn't matter really because reality despite whatever/whoever is
manipulating the information flow - reality is alway brings in corrections.
I do not believe in miracles, one can draw whatever picture of universe
on a paper or TV but the Reality will knock on the door.
As I see the problem today - we are as civilization is near be suicidal:
imagine what maniacs can do with modern weapons. Before it was always
corrected - in the past maniacs could have succeeded - temporally but in
the end they were losing. Today they can sign "The End of Story" to all
of us.
That bothers me.
Dmitry
> Estonia will switch over to Euro banknotes and coins in an year, from
> Jan 1st, 2011.
Good. I hope Latvia will follow the path.
> The Estonian Kroon was pegged to Deutschmark and later
> respectively to Euro. I see it as a small miracle that this has worked
> throughout the history of the present Kroon.
>
> What implications will the use of Euro as both a measuring unit and
> value of payment instruments be on the country?
It may result in slight increase of some prices, but in a long run
this will benefit people and should benefit the economy.
>
> http://euro.eesti.ee/EU/Euroveeb_edit/Main_Page/index.jsp
Vladimir Makarenko
> On Dec 15, 9:29 pm, Vladimir Makarenko <vmak...@nospamgmail.com>
> wrote:
>> vello wrote:
>
>> I again feel like I am living on a different planet: 1,000 Euros is sad?
>> The US median annual income for household of four (standard unit) is
>> below $50,000 minus taxes. Make the math. You Euros are fat cats.
>>
>> VM.
>
> Not europeans but Euro. It's exchange rate play. And I think you don't
> pay 1,5 dollars per liter of gasoline like I in Estonia or 2-2,5
> dollars like in most European countries.
I pay the hidden price of this gasoline - through taxes. It may show
different numbers at the pump - but it is a cheat: I pay for wars, Army,
highways, etc. Put all the pennies together - I wonder if I pay more
than you Euros do.
> Looking prices for
> electronics & other consumer goods in US webshops I feel you live in a
> paradise.
>
If you are think as an outsider - come to visit shopping and go. But I
have to pay for Social Security payments of all people who were thrown
from factories to manufacture the electronics in Asia.
There are no miracles.
VM.
Dmitry
> "Vladimir Makarenko" <vmak...@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:w-SdnQoJU_UIgb7W...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> > Valtsu wrote:
> >> Estonia will switch over to Euro banknotes and coins in an year, from Jan
> >> 1st, 2011. The Estonian Kroon was pegged to Deutschmark and later
> >> respectively to Euro. I see it as a small miracle that this has worked
> >> throughout the history of the present Kroon.
>
> >> What implications will the use of Euro as both a measuring unit and value
> >> of payment instruments be on the country?
>
> >>http://euro.eesti.ee/EU/Euroveeb_edit/Main_Page/index.jsp
>
> > Aren't you already there? I understand that Estonia for quite a while
> > "virtually" operates on Euro basis. So what could be other consequences (I
> > am not a professional so buy it or leave it) - that Estonia's economy will
> > attract more investors who before this formal arrangement were not sure of
> > guarantees?
>
> It's mainly a question of security. The Baltic national banks can still
> unilaterally unpeg (devaluate) their currencies (there has been pressure in
> this direction especially in Latvia),
This should have been done many years ago.
> but once you're in the Eurozone,
> decisions are taken in Frankfurt, not back home.
Not many Latvians trust decisions taken in Riga any more.
vello
>
> - Show quoted text -
Was talking about Russia, but in some other way it is also general.
for my country, despite media is not manipulated, people just don't
give a shit about anything serious. If to compare our TV today and in
1995, it's like comparing circus to opera :-)
vello
Vladimir Makarenko
We have a solid experimental proof - doesn't matter how much money one
pumps in distorting - the USSR went bust.
I do not buy "Afghan war", "Star wars", expanations - maybe this or
was immediate cause of the collapse but the system was Doomed. Earlier
or later, doens't matter.
I stuck with my opinion - we Russians are "too young" as Civil society
vs you, we spent too much effort of moving "outside" rather than wroking
on rules of the game.
Russians played a simple algorithm - "I do not like it here - I go East,
Siberia".
Your society had no such escape route, you worked on balancing the rules.
We didn't until recently.
VM.
Vladimir Makarenko
Let me play A Devil Advocate: What if we pay attention to Quantum
Mechanics? - in it everything is possible minus time, but Miracles
including.
What is a Miracle? - very UnProbable event. It may however happen.
VM.
Vladimir Makarenko
I feel like I am chasing my tail...
VM.
Incognito
Try Vilnius.
Incognito
"Dmitry" <dmitrijs...@inbox.lv> wrote in message
news:bcd29f0a-32bc-4dbe...@n13g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
Lithuania tried to jump in first, but wasn't allowed because of some measly
0,1% imbalance.
As usual Lithuania is "first" and then last :-) I think all three East
Baltic countries should join the eurozone all at once.
Otherwise it will become politics of "divide and rule".
vello
> "Dmitry" <dmitrijsfedot...@inbox.lv> wrote in message
It's not a football. Slovakia run euro, Czechs not - are Slovaks
someway "better" by you?
J. Anderson
> For 800 euros you find fantastic flats in Spain,
> 200 EUR per week is normal price for 3 rooms
> flat on seashore of Southern Spain during
> peak season (July-August).
Hah, Spain! Why not go to Tallinn instead? We just did and spent three days
in nicely cool temperatures (around minus 20� C). But there was a sauna in
the apartment that we rented for 5000 EEK (320 euros). That's 27 euros per
person per night for an apartment with two bedrooms, a livingroom and a very
well-equipped kitchen. And, like I said, a sauna. (Luckily.) All this in the
centre of the old-town. In case someone's interested: www.oldhouse.ee
A bit further down in the Rataskaevu street we discovered a new
Italian-style osteria, which I also gladly recommend: il Gallo Nero
(http://www.osteriagallonero.com/home.html).
And the day before yesterday at a concert in the KuMu art museum we enjoyed
excellent jazz by the young Estonian pianist Kristjan Randalu
(http://www.randalu.com/index.php?id=27).
So why go to Spain?
vello
> "vello" <vellok...@hot.ee> wrote in message
for not having minus 20C?
J. Anderson
On Dec 17, 3:02 pm, "J. Anderson" <anderso...@inbox.lv> wrote:
>> So why go to Spain?
> for not having minus 20C?
Sometimes -20�C in Northern Europe is less of a problem than +10�C in Spain
or Greece (or even England). Here, at least, we have central heating and
double (often triple) glazing.
Anton
Indeed. One of my coldest nights I have experienced was in April-May in
Crete: +12�C outside, single glazing and no heating whatsoever. Luckily
they had a small electric stove. We had a small pot with warm water in
it and on minimal heat through the night.
--
Anton
Incognito
How about stayin home savin some buck
Incognito
Baltics is a special case, we must stay/do together, otherwijse, poof......