History of China?
NoSpamlchow
: Hello,
: Can anyone recommend me a good website on the history of China?
: I have tried the main search engines but have not found any accurate
: ones.
: Thanks.
: regards,
: Koo Hang Boon (Mr.)
: webmaster
: http://www.malaysia-taichi.com
: http://www.singapore-taiji.com
: Malaysia and Singapore Taiji (Tai Chi) one-stop resource center.
: http://www.awesomelife.com
: http://www.malaysia-best.com
: * Members of the prestigious AllCanWin.Com Network
How's Your Kungfu?
Article by Lester D. K. Chow
---------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Courtyard/1535/cha_pu.html
---------------------------------------------------------
I can suggest a private, unadvertised, site that provides good information
in outline form. It is the one above. Though it is mostly about
genealogy, it gives the best overview that exist on the Internet or
anywhere else.
Please do not list it with any search service, as it is private family
genealogy only for your viewing.
If you do Chuan Fa, Tai Chi, or any form of Wu Shu, you should be aware of
your art's background and early beginnings. 99.9% of all Chinese martial
arts clubs outside of China are not aware of the history and background of
their art form.
I have even seen martial arts clubs in the U.S. call themselves "Chinese"
while teaching Japanese martial arts with a Japanese philosophy and
employing Japanese terms. This is really insulting to the Chinese race.
It is like calling Chinese inferior and paying supreme homage to the
Japanese culture.
Therefore, it becomes imperative for all Chinese to learn their culture.
It is even a greater insult to the Chinese culture for a son of China's
Emperor to call his art "Chinese," while using terms like Sensei, etc,
as the major part fo his art form. Do you know any clubs like this?
The last dynasty to rule China was not Chinese. The Ch'ing Dynasty was a
Manchurian run dynasty government over Han-Chinese. The last indigenous
Chinese dynasty was the Ming Dynasty of the Chun family.
During the end of the Ming Dynasty, court secretly enthroned CHOU Shun
Cheong as Emperor to prevent foreign rule over China. It is that lineage
that was continued successively from 1622 (1644) to present.
If your father was one of four brothers to represent the nucleus of
China's Imperial mandate, you would certainly honor that priviledge and
honor your family's endowment. Then, too, perhaps, blood is thicker than
hired hands employed to work on your farm, or is it so or not so?
I can not imagine that honor exist in condemning and crushing the royal
mandate in favor of popularity and fame (money).
Some things represent the highest symbol of your culture, yet time and
life proves us all, as to who we are...motives, integrity, honesty, and
righteousness.
How's your kungfu?
Copyright (c) Lester D. K. Chow 11-20-1999
==========================================================================
Traditional Chinese go on the long march, because they are too poor to
fight an enemy (Japan) who is resource rich. With time, all matters are
proven and righteousness usually triumphs over greed (ambition and
materialism). Even in the Chinese community, itself, wars are fought and
people are without honor. The rich steal from the poor and those who
place materialism over virtue will rob those with honor for their own
materialistic advantage and gain. By keeping things of value (correct
priorities) and by maintaining the right set of traditional values, the
real holders of the mandate are known and culture preserved. --HIM Yao Sui
==========================================================================
NoSpamlchow
: Hello,
: Can anyone recommend me a good website on the history of China?
: I have tried the main search engines but have not found any accurate
: ones.
For the most accurate chronology (dates) of China's history, see
http://lchow.webvis.net/csm/chron.html
Jerry Love
NoSpamlchow <lc...@lava.net> wrote in message
news:8161sa$mdj$3...@mochi.lava.net...
[some asked for a site on Chineesse history]
> I can suggest a private, unadvertised, site that provides good information
> in outline form. It is the one above. Though it is mostly about
> genealogy, it gives the best overview that exist on the Internet or
> anywhere else.
Cool where.
> Please do not list it with any search service, as it is private family
> genealogy only for your viewing.
Easy since you do not mention the site.
> If you do Chuan Fa, Tai Chi, or any form of Wu Shu, you should be aware of
> your art's background and early beginnings. 99.9% of all Chinese martial
> arts clubs outside of China are not aware of the history and background of
> their art form.
Huh? Where do you get that baloney and wht does it have to do with the
history of China?
> I have even seen martial arts clubs in the U.S. call themselves "Chinese"
> while teaching Japanese martial arts with a Japanese philosophy and
> employing Japanese terms.
I haven't but I will take your word for it. Imitation is the most sincere
form of flattery
> This is really insulting to the Chinese race.
What? So if someone in India teaches a french style of boxing and calls it
American Boxing, I should be insulted? What rock did you crawl from?
> It is like calling Chinese inferior and paying supreme homage to the
> Japanese culture.
So what if I practice a Chineese art and call my teacher "teacher".
Actually I practice an Indonesian art and call my teacher Sifu, which
doesn't seem to have insulted the Indonesian teachers I know.
> Therefore, it becomes imperative for all Chinese to learn their culture.
Why?
> It is even a greater insult to the Chinese culture for a son of China's
> Emperor to call his art "Chinese," while using terms like Sensei, etc,
> as the major part fo his art form. Do you know any clubs like this?
No. Who are you talking about?
> The last dynasty to rule China was not Chinese. The Ch'ing Dynasty was a
> Manchurian run dynasty government over Han-Chinese. The last indigenous
> Chinese dynasty was the Ming Dynasty of the Chun family.
While Manchuria was not part of the middle kingdom traditionally. It has
been part of Cihna for some time. You would make a better example with Kubla
Kai.
> During the end of the Ming Dynasty, court secretly enthroned CHOU Shun
> Cheong as Emperor to prevent foreign rule over China. It is that lineage
> that was continued successively from 1622 (1644) to present.
> If your father was one of four brothers to represent the nucleus of
> China's Imperial mandate, you would certainly honor that priviledge and
> honor your family's endowment. Then, too, perhaps, blood is thicker than
> hired hands employed to work on your farm, or is it so or not so?
>
> I can not imagine that honor exist in condemning and crushing the royal
> mandate in favor of popularity and fame (money).
>
> Some things represent the highest symbol of your culture, yet time and
> life proves us all, as to who we are...motives, integrity, honesty, and
> righteousness.
You mean like how the Chineese government saw the wall as a symbol of a
cruel ad warlike past until they realised that the west considered it a
wonder and so now it is a symbol of the age and power of their culture. Or
how the fighting arts were outlawed until they became popular in the west?
China traditionally saw itself as the middle kingdom between heaven and
earth, adn modern China seems obsessed with making sure that the rest of the
world sees them that way (when they are not busy invading neighbors or
chasing students around with tanks).
But what this has to do with M.A. I have no clue.
> How's your kungfu?
My programming Kung-Fu is mediocre, but I can bake like it's nobody's
business.
> ==========================================================================
> Traditional Chinese go on the long march, because they are too poor to
> fight an enemy (Japan) who is resource rich.
Since Japan goes to war to secure reasources that they do not posess (being
a reasource poor island) where is this from?
> With time, all matters are proven and righteousness usually triumphs over
> greed (ambition and materialism).
They great thing about history is that the victors write it.
> Even in the Chinese community, itself, wars are fought and
> people are without honor. The rich steal from the poor and those who
> place materialism over virtue will rob those with honor for their own
> materialistic advantage and gain. By keeping things of value (correct
> priorities) and by maintaining the right set of traditional values, the
> real holders of the mandate are known and culture preserved. --HIM Yao Sui
You lost me.
> ==========================================================================
>
>
NoSpamlchow
: NoSpamlchow <lc...@lava.net> wrote in message
: news:8161sa$mdj$3...@mochi.lava.net...
: [some asked for a site on Chineesse history]
Yes and I told him, I believe, that a good China history chronology could
be found at http://lchow.webvis.net/csm/chron.html. Sorry, if I had
failed to mention it. There are good books on China's history and a few
good sites on the Internet. I would recommend going to any state library
and asking the librarian for assistance, if you do not agree with the few
reasonable versions of China's history on the web.
Sometimes, to view chronology helps in one's understanding of Chinese
history. The site that I suggested is the best on the subject and was
written by me for the Library of Congress and U.S. Army web site on China.
: > I can suggest a private, unadvertised, site that provides good information
: > in outline form. It is the one above. Though it is mostly about
: > genealogy, it gives the best overview that exist on the Internet or
: > anywhere else.
: Cool where.
http://lchow.webvis.net/csm/chron.html
: > Please do not list it with any search service, as it is private family
: > genealogy only for your viewing.
: Easy since you do not mention the site.
The site I mentioned to Koo Hang Boon, or forgot to mention, is
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Courtyard/1535/cha_pu.html, which is a
private, confidential, UNADVERTISED, family site for the Chow clan.
You may look it up for genealogy information on the Chow clan, but do not
list it with any search engine. It's private family information!
Knowing genealogy helps with understanding Chinese history. The reason
why the Chow genealogy is important to knowing China's history is because
the Chow genealogy threads throughout China's history and gives clues to
China's central culture. Hope that helps.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
www.malaysia-best.com (b...@tm.net.my) wrote:
: Hello,
: Can anyone recommend me a good website on the history of China?
: I have tried the main search engines but have not found any accurate
: ones.
: Thanks.
: regards,
: Koo Hang Boon (Mr.)
: webmaster
: http://www.malaysia-taichi.com
: http://www.singapore-taiji.com
: Malaysia and Singapore Taiji (Tai Chi) one-stop resource center.
: http://www.awesomelife.com
: http://www.malaysia-best.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------
: > If you do Chuan Fa, Tai Chi, or any form of Wu Shu, you should be aware of
: > your art's background and early beginnings. 99.9% of all Chinese martial
: > arts clubs outside of China are not aware of the history and background of
: > their art form.
: Huh? Where do you get that baloney and wht does it have to do with the
: history of China?
My posting was in response to Mr. Koo Hang Boon who does Tai Chi.
Secondly, the Chi that <u>all</u> martial artist do does not come from the
Zen philosophy, but from the Chi of the Chou Dynasty (1122 BC to 256 BC)
look up our China chronology and see for yourself.
: > I have even seen martial arts clubs in the U.S. call themselves "Chinese"
: > while teaching Japanese martial arts with a Japanese philosophy and
: > employing Japanese terms.
: I haven't but I will take your word for it. Imitation is the most sincere
: form of flattery
: > This is really insulting to the Chinese race.
: What? So if someone in India teaches a french style of boxing and calls it
: American Boxing, I should be insulted? What rock did you crawl from?
Imagine this: You are Chinese (can you do that?), you live in California
and you are a member of many Chinese social service groups and
organizations as well as being head of the local Chinese Chamber of
Commerce (President). You are proud of your 4,000 year old Chinese
heritage and culture. You boast in China's glory as your are ethnic
Chinese 100%. You are, additionally, the owner of your own accounting
firm and local accounting board director.
You are looking for a good Chinese martial arts club, so that you might
take lessons. Being wealthy, you want to take lessons from a qualified
instructor and you want to be proud of your own roots and Chinese ethnic
heritage. The only club doing martial arts in your immediate neighborhood
(Hollywood or thereabouts) is Professor Kung Chinese Kempo.
Your immediate reaction is "Good!" but upon your first visit to that club,
you discover that everyone is speaking Japanese and the Chief instructor,
a mister Lau Bin Pin, is called Sensei by his students and everyone bows a
traditional Japanese bow (what was once done to Japan's Emperor). Not one
mention of Chinese is done in the club, except for the name. All of the
terms used in that club are Japanese.
You march out, you do not curse that organization, but silently in your
head, say, I'm never going to come back here again.
It is insulting to the Chinese tradition and it is better to call a
Japanese martial arts club Japanese Kempo instead.
In a Chinese club, respect is offered to the Chinese culture. In a
Japanese club, respect is offered to the Japanese race of people.
Remember that during World War II and the Japanese invasion, Japanese
looked to Chinese as being inferior creatures. Chinese were killed
wantonly and mercilessly. Chinese babies were even bayonetted infront of
screaming and crying mothers by the Japanese army. The thought that
Japanese are superior to Chinese and that Chinese were lower
creatures/amimals was carried by Japan's culture.
There is a distinct cultural difference between the two groups of people!
: > It is like calling Chinese inferior and paying supreme homage to the
: > Japanese culture.
Japanese clubs pay homage to Japan's Emperor. Whereas Chinese clubs are
expected to respect China's Emperor. If you belong to a Japanese club and
your club is paying homage to Japan's Emperor, you will be expected to go
along with Japanese custom and not Chinese custom, which is different!
You can not complain, even if your Sensei is second cousin to China's
Emperor. You must follow the customs of your club or not join at all.
: So what if I practice a Chineese art and call my teacher "teacher".
: Actually I practice an Indonesian art and call my teacher Sifu, which
: doesn't seem to have insulted the Indonesian teachers I know.
Any Indonesian martial art, where the club calls its instructor "Sifu"
gives the <u>highest</u> respect to the Chinese culture and such respect
will always and should always be returned in like fashion or kind. What
your group is doing is the ultimate honor. Thank you.
: > The last dynasty to rule China was not Chinese. The Ch'ing Dynasty was a
: > Manchurian run dynasty government over Han-Chinese. The last indigenous
: > Chinese dynasty was the Ming Dynasty of the Chun family.
: While Manchuria was not part of the middle kingdom traditionally. It has
: been part of Cihna for some time. You would make a better example with Kubla
: Kai.
By tradition and custom, Mongolians are not Chinese, neither are
Manchurians or Japanese. By China's history, Mongolians are part of the
history of China, but are not Han-Chinese. Neither are Manchurians.
A bit of history:
: > During the end of the Ming Dynasty, court secretly enthroned CHOU Shun
: > Cheong as Emperor to prevent foreign rule over China. It is that lineage
: > that was continued successively from 1622 (1644) to present.
Individual thought about culture (personal):
: > If your father was one of four brothers to represent the nucleus of
: > China's Imperial mandate, you would certainly honor that priviledge and
: > honor your family's endowment.
: > Then, too, perhaps, blood is thicker than water as
: > hired hands may not feel the way you do, nor would they have the love
: > of kin as you might. They might be cold and curel to family and
: > fights would eventually breakout and destroy one's family.
Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans are clanish and have long traditions of
family pride and rule. For a Chinese person to join the Tokugawa
Shogunate and call the Shogunate "Chinese" would humiliate the Tokugawa
family and the Chinese traitor would be killed (PS: NO questions asked!)
21st or 41st generations of one family rule are not uncommon within an
Asian culture of patriarchal rule. Do you know what that means?
: > How's your kungfu?
: My programming Kung-Fu is mediocre, but I can bake like it's nobody's
: business.
Sounds good to me!
Copyright (c) 1999 Lester D. K. Chow
copyright material contained in text
lobrien
Whew. Thanks. I was just about to take the time and list that page
with as amny search engines as I could muster!
You mean it doesn't come from Taoism?
> : > I have even seen martial arts clubs in the U.S. call
themselves "Chinese"
> : > while teaching Japanese martial arts with a Japanese philosophy
and
> : > employing Japanese terms.
>
> : I haven't but I will take your word for it. Imitation is the most
sincere
> : form of flattery
>
> : > This is really insulting to the Chinese race.
And you are the spokesperson for the Chinese race?
>
> : What? So if someone in India teaches a french style of boxing and
calls it
> : American Boxing, I should be insulted? What rock did you crawl from?
>
Shhh! Don't mention India. You'll really get him going.
Still holding a grudge eh? I guess someone still has to keep those old
ethnic hatreds alive.
>
> : > It is like calling Chinese inferior and paying supreme homage to
the
> : > Japanese culture.
>
> Japanese clubs pay homage to Japan's Emperor. Whereas Chinese clubs
are
> expected to respect China's Emperor. If you belong to a Japanese
club and
> your club is paying homage to Japan's Emperor, you will be expected
to go
> along with Japanese custom and not Chinese custom, which is different!
> You can not complain, even if your Sensei is second cousin to China's
> Emperor. You must follow the customs of your club or not join at all.
>
Eh? Last time I checked I lived in America and we didn't pay homage to
no emperor no-how.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chas
(nothing of interest whatsoever- snipped)
You are an utter waste of bandwidth- at least, NoSpam is sincere.
Chas
lobrien
Gee, Chas, I'm sorry I couldn't be as erudite as you would like. We
can't all meet your expectations -- or anybody's for that matter -- all
the time. NoSpam, or should I say Lester, is very sincere about many
things, not the least of which is his hatred and blatant racism against
certain cultures to which I take a great offense. But, since you are
the self appointed standardization committee for UseNet content, I'll
try to live to your high standards from now on. Hitler was also very
sincere.
Humbly yours.
~{UT@ojE~}Chiew Lee Yih
>www.malaysia-best.com (b...@tm.net.my) wrote:
>: Hello,
>
>: Can anyone recommend me a good website on the history of China?
>: I have tried the main search engines but have not found any accurate
>: ones.
>
>For the most accurate chronology (dates) of China's history, see
>http://lchow.webvis.net/csm/chron.html
>
>
The most accurate one is here:
http://www-chaos.umd.edu/history/time_line.html
Chas
> Chas <gryp...@home.com> wrote:
> > You are an utter waste of bandwidth- at least, NoSpam is sincere.
> Gee, Chas, I'm sorry I couldn't be as erudite as you would like.
It's 'wouldn't', not 'couldn't'- you probably could have, given
perseverance, application and native intelligence.
> We can't all meet your expectations -- or anybody's for that matter -- all
> the time.
All the time wasn't the question- it was the time spent re-reading 200
fucking lines of NoSpam just to get to your three lines of puerile
commentary.
> NoSpam, or should I say Lester,
Nope, NoSpam.
He wants to write such offthewallcrap, he can live with a denigratory
colophon.
> is very sincere about many
> things, not the least of which is his hatred and blatant racism against
> certain cultures to which I take a great offense.
Well, duh. Double-duh.
Why do you think people like me pull his chain, Spanky?
Join in the fun of dogpiling him-
he is oblivious- it's in the nature of rich people to be so.
> But, since you are
> the self appointed standardization committee for UseNet content, I'll
> try to live to your high standards from now on.
While it is a useful goal for you, I must remind you that I signed my
own name, not some 'committee'- I've been making fun of you all by
myself.
However, that aside; Strive on with alacrity.
> Hitler was also very sincere.
Yeah. Taurus; lots of fire stuff (Aries/Sagittarius)-
> Humbly yours.
Back at'cha
double humble
Chas
Jerry Love
> Jerry Love (b...@microsoft.com) wrote:
>
> : NoSpamlchow <lc...@lava.net> wrote in message
> : news:8161sa$mdj$3...@mochi.lava.net...
>
> : [some asked for a site on Chineesse history]
>
> Yes and I told him, I believe, that a good China history chronology could
> be found at http://lchow.webvis.net/csm/chron.html. Sorry, if I had
> failed to mention it. There are good books on China's history and a few
> good sites on the Internet. I would recommend going to any state library
> and asking the librarian for assistance, if you do not agree with the few
> reasonable versions of China's history on the web.
Thank you for the web sites. I look forward to seeing them.
> : > If you do Chuan Fa, Tai Chi, or any form of Wu Shu, you should be
aware of
> : > your art's background and early beginnings. 99.9% of all Chinese
martial
> : > arts clubs outside of China are not aware of the history and
background of
> : > their art form.
>
> : Huh? Where do you get that baloney and wht does it have to do with the
> : history of China?
>
> My posting was in response to Mr. Koo Hang Boon who does Tai Chi.
> Secondly, the Chi that <u>all</u> martial artist do does not come from the
> Zen philosophy, but from the Chi of the Chou Dynasty (1122 BC to 256 BC)
> look up our China chronology and see for yourself.
But your statement is that 0.1% of Chineese Martial clubs are aware of the
history of their style. I strongly disagree and want to know where you get
that statistic.
> : > I have even seen martial arts clubs in the U.S. call themselves
"Chinese"
> : > while teaching Japanese martial arts with a Japanese philosophy and
> : > employing Japanese terms.
>
> : I haven't but I will take your word for it. Imitation is the most
sincere
> : form of flattery
>
> : > This is really insulting to the Chinese race.
>
> : What? So if someone in India teaches a french style of boxing and calls
it
> : American Boxing, I should be insulted? What rock did you crawl from?
>
> Imagine this: You are Chinese (can you do that?), you live in California
> and you are a member of many Chinese social service groups and
> organizations as well as being head of the local Chinese Chamber of
> Commerce (President). You are proud of your 4,000 year old Chinese
> heritage and culture. You boast in China's glory as your are ethnic
> Chinese 100%. You are, additionally, the owner of your own accounting
> firm and local accounting board director.
I can imagine being an American overseas, proud of my 200 year old heritige
and culture and walking into a "boxing" club ot find it teaching Muay Thai.
I really don't think I would feel insulted.
> You are looking for a good Chinese martial arts club, so that you might
> take lessons. Being wealthy, you want to take lessons from a qualified
> instructor and you want to be proud of your own roots and Chinese ethnic
> heritage. The only club doing martial arts in your immediate neighborhood
> (Hollywood or thereabouts) is Professor Kung Chinese Kempo.
Isn't Kempo an Okinawan word? It is a Okinawan art created by a couple of
Okinawan Karate instructors that spent several years in China. They based
the art on what they learned there and called it "Chineese Hand" (Ken-po).
Perhaps a Kenpo practitioner can correct my errors and give a more complete
description.
> Your immediate reaction is "Good!" but upon your first visit to that club,
> you discover that everyone is speaking Japanese and the Chief instructor,
> a mister Lau Bin Pin, is called Sensei by his students and everyone bows a
> traditional Japanese bow (what was once done to Japan's Emperor). Not one
> mention of Chinese is done in the club, except for the name. All of the
> terms used in that club are Japanese.
That would make sense. Seein as how it is a Okinawan art. And I don't think
the Okinawans, proud of their heritage, would appriciate you calling them
Japaneese.
> You march out, you do not curse that organization, but silently in your
> head, say, I'm never going to come back here again.
Sounds like a good choice.
> It is insulting to the Chinese tradition and it is better to call a
> Japanese martial arts club Japanese Kempo instead.
You are way too easily insulted.
> In a Chinese club, respect is offered to the Chinese culture. In a
> Japanese club, respect is offered to the Japanese race of people.
Interesting move from culture to race.
> Remember that during World War II and the Japanese invasion, Japanese
> looked to Chinese as being inferior creatures. Chinese were killed
> wantonly and mercilessly. Chinese babies were even bayonetted infront of
> screaming and crying mothers by the Japanese army. The thought that
> Japanese are superior to Chinese and that Chinese were lower
> creatures/amimals was carried by Japan's culture.
They did the same to everyone else. I seem to recall a similar disregard for
the Chineese people by their rulers during the building of the great walls.
And I doubt that was the only time. It seems to go on today.
But lets not stop there. I understand the Indonesians are abusing Chineese,
lets hate them too. And the Vietnamese weren't very nice to our POWs, we
need to hate them. Then again, we weren't very nice to their villagers, we
need to hate us.
> There is a distinct cultural difference between the two groups of people!
Of course.
> : > It is like calling Chinese inferior and paying supreme homage to the
> : > Japanese culture.
Supreme homage?
> Japanese clubs pay homage to Japan's Emperor. Whereas Chinese clubs are
> expected to respect China's Emperor. If you belong to a Japanese club and
> your club is paying homage to Japan's Emperor, you will be expected to go
> along with Japanese custom and not Chinese custom, which is different!
> You can not complain, even if your Sensei is second cousin to China's
> Emperor. You must follow the customs of your club or not join at all.
Pretty tough club you wandered into. Most of the Japaneese arts I have ever
seen pay homage was to the founder. (e.g. Akido)
> : So what if I practice a Chineese art and call my teacher "teacher".
>
> : Actually I practice an Indonesian art and call my teacher Sifu, which
> : doesn't seem to have insulted the Indonesian teachers I know.
>
> Any Indonesian martial art, where the club calls its instructor "Sifu"
> gives the <u>highest</u> respect to the Chinese culture and such respect
> will always and should always be returned in like fashion or kind. What
> your group is doing is the ultimate honor. Thank you.
Your welcome?
>
> : > The last dynasty to rule China was not Chinese. The Ch'ing Dynasty
was a
> : > Manchurian run dynasty government over Han-Chinese. The last
indigenous
> : > Chinese dynasty was the Ming Dynasty of the Chun family.
>
> : While Manchuria was not part of the middle kingdom traditionally. It has
> : been part of Cihna for some time. You would make a better example with
Kubla
> : Kai.
>
> By tradition and custom, Mongolians are not Chinese, neither are
> Manchurians or Japanese. By China's history, Mongolians are part of the
> history of China, but are not Han-Chinese. Neither are Manchurians.
That was my point. The mongolians would be better examples of non-Chineese
ruling China as Mongolia is still an independant country.
> A bit of history:
> : > During the end of the Ming Dynasty, court secretly enthroned CHOU Shun
> : > Cheong as Emperor to prevent foreign rule over China. It is that
lineage
> : > that was continued successively from 1622 (1644) to present.
>
> Individual thought about culture (personal):
> : > If your father was one of four brothers to represent the nucleus of
> : > China's Imperial mandate, you would certainly honor that priviledge
and
> : > honor your family's endowment.
>
> : > Then, too, perhaps, blood is thicker than water as
> : > hired hands may not feel the way you do, nor would they have the love
> : > of kin as you might. They might be cold and curel to family and
> : > fights would eventually breakout and destroy one's family.
>
> Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans are clanish and have long traditions of
> family pride and rule. For a Chinese person to join the Tokugawa
> Shogunate and call the Shogunate "Chinese" would humiliate the Tokugawa
> family and the Chinese traitor would be killed (PS: NO questions asked!)
> 21st or 41st generations of one family rule are not uncommon within an
> Asian culture of patriarchal rule. Do you know what that means?
420 or 820 of same-bloodline rule. The Chineese interest in orginization is
well known and quite impressive. I personally belive it stems from the
aquaduct system being one of their first activities as a government. Lots of
burocracy required. Seems to have had great influence on culture and native
religion (celestial burocracy and courts of dragons and all). Second only to
the Egyptians in age.
> : > How's your kungfu?
>
> : My programming Kung-Fu is mediocre, but I can bake like it's nobody's
> : business.
>
> Sounds good to me!
:-)
NoSpamlchow
: On 20 Nov 1999 11:52:20 GMT, lc...@lava.net (NoSpamlchow) wrote:
: >www.malaysia-best.com (b...@tm.net.my) wrote:
: >: Hello,
: >
: >: Can anyone recommend me a good website on the history of China?
: >: I have tried the main search engines but have not found any accurate
: >: ones.
: >
: >For the most accurate chronology (dates) of China's history, see
: >http://lchow.webvis.net/csm/chron.html
: >
: >
: The most accurate one is here:
: http://www-chaos.umd.edu/history/time_line.html
Response in two parts (A):
I assume your reference is to Mr. Poon's China history page. May I add a
brief comment to your above suggestion. Mr. Poon is a research assistant
at the University of Maryland. I have found his site to be extensive and
interesting. He cites references to his work and the history he tells
tends to support a more Asian view of Chinese history than history being
told from a Western stand point. History is factual, yet even the best of
professors will be opinionated and will leave out or add different things.
http://www-chaos.umd.edu/history/toc.html = Poon on China history
http://www-chaos.umd.edu/history/time_line.html = Poon's chronology
A history instructor may miss certain very key elements China's history,
which is my contention to this whole subject of history recordation. If
one's point of view is biased, one will overlook something important and
one will not understand history, let alone teach it.
I like Leon Poon's site on China history, especially the parts dealing
with modern China, which I briefly read (actually skimmed, recently and
long ago) with great interest and intent.
I would not advocate his site as the ultimate in text book history on
China though.
I have read, again briefly, history texts written in Chinese and was
impressed.
The most accurate and authoritative chronology on China's history, that I
have seen, still, is found at: http://lchow.webvis.net/csm/chron.html
Part (B):
The problem with history research for most college students studying
China's history is that there are a number of versions of history that
are different, slightly or vastly. If a student for example cites one
work or bases his thinking and knowledge on some work different from his
professor's (millions of China history professors out there and all with
different opinions on China history) understanding of China history, the
student will not succeed at all. History like every other discipline
requires adherence to a doctrine, either you are in and pass or out and
fail. Being a student and having the correct set of facts (truth)
sometimes does not help, nor matter.
My history chronology is supported by main stream China history research
in mainland China. It is also upheld, my understanding, by some China
history circles in the U.S. I am not given credit for my work, because I
am not a recognized China history scholar. My understanding of China
history is excellent and my overview is just as good.
Without my chronology certain phases of China's history can never be told.
It is that important.
I do not have a site on China's history as the limits of my expertise
extends only to an overview, yet my chronology, I believe, will stand for
all time.
I submitted a copy to the Library of Congress for inclusion in their data
base. The current China chronology they use was done by my
mentor/instructor Professor Dun J. Li. I received a letter back from the
Library of Congress saying that they might use my chronology in their data
base.
Having the correct set of dates and correct framework for history is
important for the proper understanding of history. Having the incorrect
set of dates or misleading framework of China's history will even throw
Washington DC's China history policy analyst off the track with a bad
understanding of what China policy should be.
Lester D. K. Chow
lc...@NOSPAM.lava.net (Remove "NOSPAM.")
For my copywritten chronology, see:
http://lchow.webvis.net/csm/chron.html
NoSpamlchow
: I can imagine being an American overseas, proud of my 200 year old heritige
: and culture and walking into a "boxing" club to find it teaching Muay Thai.
: I really don't think I would feel insulted.
Sometimes, people forget the past, because people connected with their
past (family members) have not supported their cause. Family can be like
that as many have found out.
At other times, people can not reveal who they are or where they come from
and, believe it or not, this is true. Though they knew it in the
beginning, it was forgotten, when the CNN interviews came
around...honestly forgotten. If a reminder was tossed at them and they
were held to some question, where an answer was essential and did not
violate a family confidence, a confession would have come forward.
You might want to highlight your family or personal roots as these things
are dear to you and is the essential part of your focus, as evident by all
of the past things you did...and you may not have told others the whys and
wherefores, including your wife. Your son would have been told, upon his
proving himself worthy. Some people are doers and not tellers.
Question:
: Isn't Kempo an Okinawan word? It is a Okinawan art created by a couple of
: Okinawan Karate instructors that spent several years in China. They based
: the art on what they learned there and called it "Chineese Hand" (Ken-po).
Yes
: Perhaps a Kenpo practitioner can correct my errors and give a more complete
: description.
: > Your immediate reaction is "Good!" but upon your first visit to that club,
: > you discover that everyone is speaking Japanese and the Chief instructor,
: > a mister Lau Bin Pin, is called Sensei by his students and everyone bows a
: > traditional Japanese bow (what was once done to Japan's Emperor). Not one
: > mention of Chinese is done in the club, except for the name. All of the
: > terms used in that club are Japanese.
: That would make sense. Seein as how it is a Okinawan art. And I don't think
: the Okinawans, proud of their heritage, would appriciate you calling them
: Japaneese.
I guess you're right!
: > In a Chinese club, respect is offered to the Chinese culture. In a
: > Japanese club, respect is offered to the Japanese race of people.
: Interesting move from culture to race.
: But lets not stop there. I understand the Indonesians are abusing Chineese,
: lets hate them too. And the Vietnamese weren't very nice to our POWs, we
: need to hate them. Then again, we weren't very nice to their villagers, we
: need to hate us.
We creamed Vietnam 1,400,000 of their guys (civilian mostly and military,
elderly, women, and children) to 50,000 of our guys!
: > There is a distinct cultural difference between the two groups of people!
: Of course.
: > : > It is like calling Chinese inferior and paying supreme homage to the
: > : > Japanese culture.
: > Japanese clubs pay homage to Japan's Emperor. Whereas Chinese clubs are
: > expected to respect China's Emperor. If you belong to a Japanese club and
: > your club is paying homage to Japan's Emperor, you will be expected to go
: > along with Japanese custom and not Chinese custom, which is different!
: > You can not complain, even if your Sensei is second cousin to China's
: > Emperor. You must follow the customs of your club or not join at all.
: Pretty tough club you wandered into. Most of the Japaneese arts I have ever
: seen pay homage was to the founder. (e.g. Akido)
The ultimate respect is to the Japanese culture and race, thereby, to the
Emperor of Japan. No Samurai, in my opinion, could I be wrong on this
call, would hesitate to pay homage to the Emperor. The supreme symbol of
the Japanese culture...essentially God!
: > : So what if I practice a Chineese art and call my teacher "teacher".
In my own opinion, that is alright.
: > : Actually I practice an Indonesian art and call my teacher Sifu, which
: > : doesn't seem to have insulted the Indonesian teachers I know.
: >
: > Any Indonesian martial art, where the club calls its instructor "Sifu"
: > gives the <u>highest</u> respect to the Chinese culture and such respect
: > will always and should always be returned in like fashion or kind. What
: > your group is doing is the ultimate honor. Thank you.
: You're welcome
: > By tradition and custom, Mongolians are not Chinese, neither are
: > Manchurians or Japanese. By China's history, Mongolians are part of the
: > history of China, but are not Han-Chinese. Neither are Manchurians.
: That was my point. The Mongolians would be better examples of non-Chineese
: ruling China as Mongolia is still an independant country.
: > A bit of history:
: > : > During the end of the Ming Dynasty, court secretly enthroned CHOU Shun
: > : > Cheong as Emperor to prevent foreign rule over China. It is that
: > : > lineage that was continued successively from 1622 (1644) to present.
: >
: > Individual thought about culture (personal):
: > : > If your father was one of four brothers to represent the nucleus of
: > : > China's Imperial mandate, you would certainly honor that priviledge
: > : > and honor your family's endowment.
: >
: > : > Then, too, perhaps, blood is thicker than water as
: > : > hired hands may not feel the way you do, nor would they have the love
: > : > of kin as you might.
: >
: > Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans are clanish and have long traditions of
: > family pride and rule. For a Chinese person to join the Tokugawa
: > Shogunate and call the Shogunate "Chinese" would humiliate the Tokugawa
: > family
: 420 or 820 of same-bloodline rule. The Chineese interest in organization is
: well known and quite impressive. I personally believe it stems from the
: aquaduct system being one of their first activities as a government. Lots of
: bureaucracy required. Seems to have had great influence on culture and
: native religion (celestial bureaucracy and courts of dragons and all).
lobrien
Chas <gryp...@home.com> wrote:
> It's 'wouldn't', not 'couldn't'- you probably could have, given
> perseverance, application and native intelligence.
>
Hey, juse because I'm puerile once in a while doesn't mean I lack
native intelligence.
> All the time wasn't the question- it was the time spent re-reading 200
> fucking lines of NoSpam just to get to your three lines of puerile
> commentary.
>
> Nope, NoSpam.
> He wants to write such offthewallcrap, he can live with a denigratory
> colophon.
>
Heh. That's a good one.
>
> Well, duh. Double-duh.
> Why do you think people like me pull his chain, Spanky?
> Join in the fun of dogpiling him-
> he is oblivious- it's in the nature of rich people to be so.
>
He's rich? Then why is he wasting his time on Usenet?
>
> Yeah. Taurus; lots of fire stuff (Aries/Sagittarius)-
For somebody who seems pretty intelligent, don't tell me you actually
believe in that hokum.
>
> Back at'cha
> double humble
>
> Chas
>
Touche.
Chas
I wrote:
> > Yeah. Taurus; lots of fire stuff (Aries/Sagittarius)-
>
> For somebody who seems pretty intelligent, don't tell me you actually
> believe in that hokum.
Yeah- five thousand years of study- couldn't be anything to it, hunh-
Chas
badgemen
NoSpamlchow <lc...@lava.net> wrote in article
<81cmg9$f16$1...@mochi.lava.net>...
[snip]
>
> We creamed Vietnam 1,400,000 of their guys (civilian mostly and military,
> elderly, women, and children) to 50,000 of our guys!
>
did you?
-goldenmane