Tai Chi and Karate Don't Mix
wish_mp3
Davies,
this is true that martial arts have been developed all
over the place , for chinese, they have develope their martial art
"wu-shu" few thousand years ago. Due to the deep influence from chinese
culture, most of the martial arts practiced in Korea before the
nineteenth century were merely reflections of Chinese martial arts.
The three most common pieces of evidence for the antiquity of
1)t'aekwondo -- the tomb murals of Koguryo kingdom,
2)the statue of Kumkang-Yuksa,
3)the Muye tobo t'ongji ,actually show that early Korean martial arts
were largely derivative of Chinese martial arts.
First, the tomb murals of the Koguryo dynasty (3-427 A.D.) do indeed
show martial arts being practiced, but these murals are now located in
modern Manchuria, not Korea. This of course is a mere technicality,
since the Koguryo kingdom included much of both northern Korea and
Manchuria, but it is also true that the Koguryo kingdom was heavily
influenced by the Chinese.
In fact, Koguryo was the easternmost outpost of Han dynasty China
(206 B.C.-220 A.D.), and the martial arts depicted in Koguryo tomb
murals closely resemble those in the tomb murals of the Eastern Han,
located in what is now eastern China. This suggests that the form of
Koguryo-era martial arts emerged because of Chinese cultural influence,
rather than independent development by the future Koreans.
Secondly, the statue of Kumkang-Yuksa at Sokkuram, which is
often cited as the figure of an ancient warrior practicing t'aekwondo,
is in fact a Buddhist guardian figure found through-out East
Asia, and thus cannot be said to be unique to Korea either.
Lastly, and most conclusively, the Muye tobo t'ongji (Illustrated
Manual of Martial Arts) of the 1790s describes Chinese tactics and
martial skills including quan-fa ("boxing"; lit. "fist method"),
quotes classical Chinese sources, and was written by a scholar famed for
his erudition in classical Chinese. Indeed, it seems nearly identical to
the Jixiao Xinshu or New Book for Effective Discipline (1561) by the
Chinese general Jiquang Qi (1528-1587).
The fifty year occupation by the Japanese also greatly influenced
Korean martial arts especially all korean boys must learn Judo,Kendo and
other japanese martial art.
Just my 2 cents...
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
ypar...@my-deja.com
wish_mp3 <wish...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>
> Davies,
>
> this is true that martial arts have been developed all
> over the place , for chinese, they have develope their martial art
> "wu-shu" few thousand years ago. Due to the deep influence from
>chinese
I think it is due to your never ending episodes of uncontrollable
fantasy.
> culture, most of the martial arts practiced in Korea before the
> nineteenth century were merely reflections of Chinese martial arts.
Thus said a little chinese boy.
>
> The three most common pieces of evidence for the antiquity of
> 1)t'aekwondo -- the tomb murals of Koguryo kingdom,
pehehehe. Who said these were depictions of TKD?
> 2)the statue of Kumkang-Yuksa,
> 3)the Muye tobo t'ongji ,actually show that early Korean martial arts
> were largely derivative of Chinese martial arts.
You mean you count late choson as "ancient"?
>
> First, the tomb murals of the Koguryo dynasty (3-427 A.D.) do
indeed
> show martial arts being practiced, but these murals are now located in
> modern Manchuria, not Korea.
hmmm? Many if not most are found in southern pyeongan and hwanghae
province. The rest are found in the north side of yalu(ari in native
korean amrok in sino korean) river as this was the site of its early
capital.
> This of course is a mere technicality,
No it was put in so that you could more successfully and
unscrupulously insinuate that everything korean derives from chinese.
> since the Koguryo kingdom included much of both northern Korea and
> Manchuria, but it is also true that the Koguryo kingdom was heavily
> influenced by the Chinese.
You mean chinese were not heavily influenced by northern cultures?
You pigs did not even wear trousers before you adopted northern
costumes. It is recorded in your official history.
>
> In fact, Koguryo was the easternmost outpost of Han dynasty China
> (206 B.C.-220 A.D.),
Was china the easternmost outpost of British empire too?
> and the martial arts depicted in Koguryo tomb
> murals closely resemble those in the tomb murals of the Eastern Han,
> located in what is now eastern China.
I doubt you have one fucking clear example of this. Of course all you
need is SOME mural depiction of anything looking like men fighting with
each other. From then on, in typical chinese fashion you can claim that
every thing flows out from it.
Mural painting is probably not indigenous to Koguryo and quite
possibly is of chinese origin(actually not quite. It is a style they
probably absorbed in their early contact with northern peoples). Many
early mural paintings are done in chinese style until Koreans developed
their own style. Not surprisingly, many fantastical animals(kirin etc)
depicted in Koguryo mural paintings are chinese(more or less). That
does not mean everything there is chinese as people are clothed in
uniquely korean costumes(though some officials etc appear to have
already adopted some elements of chinese
culture).
Martial art depictions picture men who are naked in the top and
wearing short Korean trousers. There certainly is nothing chinese about
this. Sometimes in the same painting( I am almost tempted to say
alongside, but I am an honest and honorable man unlike these chinese
swine) are depictions of ssireum which has an unambiguous kinship to
many such similar sports among northern peoples such as mongols. And
more tellingly, they tend to have their top off and wear short
trousers(more recently something like briefs as may be seen in Mongol
cultural festivals).
It is actually very difficult to cook up any chinese origin theory for
these.............. unless of course you are chinese. What more needs
to be said to these chinese swine who proclaim without hesitation that
even native americans are "chinese".
> This suggests that the form of
> Koguryo-era martial arts emerged because of Chinese cultural
influence,
> rather than independent development by the future Koreans.
No that suggests nothing. There is no conceivable scenario of history
which you swine will not take for the glory of chinese race.
>
> Secondly, the statue of Kumkang-Yuksa at Sokkuram, which is
> often cited as the figure of an ancient warrior practicing t'aekwondo,
> is in fact a Buddhist guardian figure found through-out East
> Asia, and thus cannot be said to be unique to Korea either.
Partially true. But ever wonder what you chinese eunuchs immediately
assume that it is therefore chinese? Moreover why do you assume that
any similarity between things chinese and her neighbors must derive from
chinese not the other way around?
>
> Lastly, and most conclusively, the Muye tobo t'ongji (Illustrated
> Manual of Martial Arts) of the 1790s describes Chinese tactics and
> martial skills including quan-fa ("boxing"; lit. "fist method"),
> quotes classical Chinese sources, and was written by a scholar famed
for
> his erudition in classical Chinese. Indeed, it seems nearly identical
to
> the Jixiao Xinshu or New Book for Effective Discipline (1561) by the
> Chinese general Jiquang Qi (1528-1587).
Yes sure. I am sure that most chinese martial arts are of western
origin because modern chinese military manuals are based on western
tactics and practices.
>
> The fifty year occupation by the Japanese also greatly influenced
> Korean martial arts especially all korean boys must learn Judo,Kendo
>and
> other japanese martial art.
It is thirty five years. Nope, no quibbling. If you meant the 15
years prior to the annexation when Japanese had dominated Korea, then
the latter part is false as Japanese did not have enough control to
dictate any public education policy until well into their colonial rule.
Actually, it is false period. Japanese administered education had none
of judo, kendo, etc compulsory except for some specialized schools like
police academy.
It is quite evident that you know fucking nothing about Korean
history.
>
> Just my 2 cents...
You tend to grossly overestimate your own self-worth.
Y. Park
ng eng chong
> > Secondly, the statue of Kumkang-Yuksa at Sokkuram, which is
> > often cited as the figure of an ancient warrior practicing t'aekwondo,
> > is in fact a Buddhist guardian figure found through-out East
> > Asia, and thus cannot be said to be unique to Korea either.
>
> Partially true. But ever wonder what you chinese eunuchs immediately
> assume that it is therefore chinese? Moreover why do you assume that
> any similarity between things chinese and her neighbors must derive from
> chinese not the other way around?
this is becoz chinese culture is one of the oldest culture
in the world, the other three are Egypt, Greek, India, it was recorded
in history book over the world.
moor...@my-deja.com
wish_mp3 <wish...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>
> Davies,
>
> this is true that martial arts have been developed all
> over the place , for chinese, they have develope their martial art
years ago before it was known as "kung fu.") Due to the deep influence
from
chinese
> culture, most of the martial arts practiced in Korea before the
This is only partly true, a good example is the old vertion of Tae Kwon
Do wich was known as "Tang So Do", but martial arts of other types and
names already existed in those regions at the time. And Chinese martial
arts did infuence them a bit, by the fact that Chan Buddism migrated
from China to Korea. And some fo those monks did know Kung Fu, there is
a good story of the birth of a Korean martial art called "WHARANGDO".
The frist exponet of this martial art was a buddist monk who created it
after seeing a kind of sport that people played in the old kingdom of
"Silla". This monk mixed what he knew and waht he saw and he came up
whit this unique martial art; for wich these warrios know as the HWARANG
had a great reputation for their kick's, and all around effectivenes of
their martial art style. If
you need more info go to "http://www.csn.net/hwarang/Hwa_History.html or
http://www.csn.net/hwarang/Hwa_HAncient.html")
>
> The three most common pieces of evidence for the antiquity of
> 1)t'aekwondo -- the tomb murals of Koguryo kingdom,
> 3)the Muye tobo t'ongji ,actually show that early Korean martial arts
> were largely derivative of Chinese martial arts.
>
indeed
> show martial arts being practiced, but these murals are now located in
> since the Koguryo kingdom included much of both northern Korea and
> Manchuria, but it is also true that the Koguryo kingdom was heavily
> influenced by the Chinese.
>
> murals closely resemble those in the tomb murals of the Eastern Han,
> Koguryo-era martial arts emerged because of Chinese cultural
influence,
> rather than independent development by the future Koreans.
>
> often cited as the figure of an ancient warrior practicing t'aekwondo,
> is in fact a Buddhist guardian figure found through-out East
> Asia, and thus cannot be said to be unique to Korea either.
>
> Manual of Martial Arts) of the 1790s describes Chinese tactics and
> martial skills including quan-fa ("boxing"; lit. "fist method"),
> quotes classical Chinese sources, and was written by a scholar famed
for
> his erudition in classical Chinese. Indeed, it seems nearly identical
to
> the Jixiao Xinshu or New Book for Effective Discipline (1561) by the
> Chinese general Jiquang Qi (1528-1587).
>
> Korean martial arts especially all korean boys must learn Judo,Kendo
and
> other japanese martial art.
>
big_...@my-deja.com
Congratulations on your excellent knowledge of Korean history, or at
least that aspect of it. The Grandmaster of the martial art I study
started at in Kwon Bup (Kempo)under Dong Ju Li. He moved to Tae Kwon
Do under General Choi, Hong Hi, and eventually attained the rank of 8th
Degree. Many of our schools still feature a Hwa Rang (flower of
manhood) club for the Jr. Students.
Pil Sung!
Austin P. So (Hae-Jin)
about korean history and martial arts vomitting out this kind of
crap...almost as bad as half-wit chinese nationalists who think that
everything originated from this ethereal non-culture called "chinese".
If you don't know, then please just shut up...
moor...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8u5qqv$pb7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> wish_mp3 <wish...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > this is true that martial arts have been developed all
> > over the place , for chinese, they have develope their martial art
> > "wu-shu" few thousand years ago ( WU SHU was created not more than 50
> years ago before it was known as "kung fu.") Due to the deep influence
> from
> chinese
> > culture, most of the martial arts practiced in Korea before the
> > nineteenth century were merely reflections of Chinese martial arts(
> This is only partly true, a good example is the old vertion of Tae Kwon
> Do wich was known as "Tang So Do", but martial arts of other types and
> names already existed in those regions at the time. And Chinese martial
> arts did infuence them a bit, by the fact that Chan Buddism migrated
> from China to Korea. And some fo those monks did know Kung Fu, there is
> a good story of the birth of a Korean martial art called "WHARANGDO".
> The frist exponet of this martial art was a buddist monk who created it
> after seeing a kind of sport that people played in the old kingdom of
> "Silla".
--
---
Austin P. So (Hae Jin)
I.I.S.G.P.
Biotechnology Laboratory
University of British Columbia
E-mail: hae...@netinfo.ubc.ca
http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/haejin/index.html (under construction)
moor...@my-deja.com
IF SOME THING IS WRONG SHOW ME WHERE SO THAT I MAY LEARN THE TRUHT, AND
PLEASE SITE YOUR SOURCE. MY SOURCE ARE THE THE BOOKS OF WHARANGDO BY
GRAND MASTER JO BANG LEE, AND COUNTTLES CHATS WITH KOREN PEOPLE AND
HISTORIANS. WHAT ARE YOUR SOUORCES..:-)
ypar...@my-deja.com
ng eng chong <nec...@tm.net.my> wrote:
> this is becoz chinese culture is one of the oldest culture
> in the world, the other three are Egypt, Greek, India, it was
recorded
> in history book over the world.
No matter how much you aspire toward your internet-fraud, it does not
work. No one will take you seriously when you can not even get the four
ancient civilizations right(in fact you omitted the possibly the oldest
civilization of all, regarded by some to be THE cradle of all
civ.)
Huitman Huang
That oldest one was Koryu civilization from the frigid Siberia, close to
Eskimo.
pehehehehe...
Anyway, the Chinese Civilization was the only one still-alive,
everlasting, and non-white among those four. Its prime time has yet to
come. You must feel very miserable about this fact.
bahahahaha...
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 ypar...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <3A09325B...@tm.net.my>,
> ng eng chong <nec...@tm.net.my> wrote:
>
> > this is becoz chinese culture is one of the oldest culture
> > in the world, the other three are Egypt, Greek, India, it was
> recorded
> > in history book over the world.
>
> No matter how much you aspire toward your internet-fraud, it does not
> work. No one will take you seriously when you can not even get the four
> ancient civilizations right(in fact you omitted the possibly the oldest
> civilization of all, regarded by some to be THE cradle of all
> civ.)
>
ypar...@my-deja.com
Bwhahahahaha. Wonkwang(won-gwang) was chinese?(this idiot probably
read from a mis-parsing of the name. Even my enemy should give me
due credit for my intelligence. Who the hell else but me could figure
this out?) You mean everyone who ever visited
china is automatically chinese?
Won-kwang is his peop-myeong(religious name) and that is why it is in
sino-korean much the way some catholic name is in latin with ultimate
semitic root. He is no more chinese than an english named david would
be a jew.
>and he
> also laid down 5 code of ethics for Hwa Rang.
Secular Five Rules.
Sorry. They were not laid down by chinese. In fact it was very
difficult to see ANY chinese in shilla at that time.
Austin P. So (Hae-Jin)
How many times do you have to be told how wrong you are about this warped
notion of "chinese civilization"?
Huitman Huang wrote:
> Anyway, the Chinese Civilization was the only one still-alive,
> everlasting, and non-white among those four. Its prime time has yet to
> come.
--
Huitman Huang
this notion except our honor Prof. H. J. So.
I once read a scary article (a friend said it was from the textbook of
North Korea) saying that the 'Koryo Civilization' began 7000 years ago.
:-)
ypar...@my-deja.com
Huitman Huang <huih...@iupui.edu> wrote:
> Anyway, the Chinese Civilization was the only one still-alive,
Absolutely true.(with the hyphen, still-alive can only be interpreted
similarly as 'still born' etc. Yes, Huang The
Idiot got wiser and now at least recognizes the stagnant quality of
chinese culture)
ypar...@my-deja.com
Secular Five Rules.
Y. Park
william john sowa
>> Huitman Huang wrote:
>>
>> > Anyway, the Chinese Civilization was the only one still-alive,
>> > everlasting, and non-white among those four. Its prime time has yet to
>> > come.
The ONLY ONE "alive, everlasting, and non-white"? Sounds to me like
many Western, Eastern, and Central African nations, as well. Perhaps,
you should compare Chinese civilization with African civilization,
because African's civilization's prime time has yet to come, too.
ng eng chong
Huitman Huang wrote:
> puhahahaha...
>
> That oldest one was Koryu civilization from the frigid Siberia, close to
> Eskimo.
>
> pehehehehe...
>
> Anyway, the Chinese Civilization was the only one still-alive,
> everlasting, and non-white among those four. Its prime time has yet to
> come. You must feel very miserable about this fact.
>
> bahahahaha...
>
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 ypar...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > In article <3A09325B...@tm.net.my>,
> > ng eng chong <nec...@tm.net.my> wrote:
> >
> > > this is becoz chinese culture is one of the oldest culture
> > > in the world, the other three are Egypt, Greek, India, it was
> > recorded
> > > in history book over the world.
> >
> > No matter how much you aspire toward your internet-fraud, it does not
> > work. No one will take you seriously. when you can not even
> >get the four ancient civilizations right.
u mean China, Egypt, Greek,India are not the four ancient
civiliazation?
then can you tell me what are the four civiliazation according to your korean
history?